Re: [WISPA] Tower colocation request
I'll echo what Tom has said. I was successful in working with municipalities when was I was able to show benefit to them. Your constituents don't just want this they need this. Ask a number of folks who actually want the service to attend the board meeting for support. They heard loud and clear what they needed. I was even able to reduce our fees for the tanks by showing losses for as long as a year until we were able to gain enough customers to pay the lease and some of the equipment costs back . We pay anywhere from $150 per water tank through $350 per tank and are located on 10 tanks across three water districts. Some are easier to work with than others. Something we have done for one of the water companies is use our systems to transmit control data to and from tanks for them - a big savings for them. We now maintain all their radio communications for them. We adjusted their antennas moved by a hurricane last year, we physically look at their tanks every time we are on site. I don't have one water company I work for that has anyone on staff willing to climb a tank. If a problem appears we notify them and also notify them prior to going on any of their sites - they like that. One thing to remember about water tanks - they are very expensive to build and maintain - as much as 250K to paint. We've had a few board members continue to vote no for lease renewals based on benefit vs risk. They have said that for the few hundred they get from us - it just doesn't justify the risk. The primary purpose is to deliver water. We proposed nothing but hot dipped galvanized parts or stainless steel equipment on the tanks, and are on the hook if we damage the tank. They hate seeing rust run down the side of a tank - very unsightly. We have never been able to do any welding on tanks - but now - new tanks that are built - we work with the engineers to design mounts for us to use prior to construction. Hope this helps. David Hulsebus Portative Technologies www.portative.com Michael Baird wrote: Tom, Thanks this is just the sort of information I was looking for. I was also looking for maybe some notes or documentation from someone who's done the presentation dance in front of the municipality. Regards Michael Baird The goal is to learn what the muni's objective is. Their objective is not always to enable broadband expansion. Sometimes a small town cares more about generating a new source of revenue. Your goal is to changed the perspective that they'll want to charge you $2000/month to co-locate, to one that they want to give you space for free, because of the economic development need to the community to deliver broadband. You'll want to be friend influencial people in the community, and get them excited about broadband. You'll want to document competence for the water tower work. Address concerns for safety, cosmetic appeal, and potential damage to the water tower. You'll want to document insurance. But mostly, you'll want to document the need for your services in the community. And you'll want to offer a direct benefit to the town government as well. (For example, inkind trade worth of broadband service to a few key public venues). You'll also want to research the zoning options for constructing towers, so you know what your alternatives are, if the town board is not cooperative. Make sure you have a long term agreement to co-locate.(For example 5 years renewable for up to 20 years.) Make sure your agreement has first-in non-intererence clauses, specifiying the spectrum ranges that you will be using. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:49 AM Subject: [WISPA] Tower colocation request Hi guys, we are looking to deploy a wifi system on a local water tower to service and underserved area. This will be our first experience dealing with a new municipality and we have it slated for a board agenda. I was wondering if there were standard proposals out there to use, or if someone had an example they were willing to share, of what information they provide to the municipality, or what to pay attention to when trying to get space on the tower. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date: 3/1/2009 5:46 PM
[WISPA] Tower colocation request
Hi guys, we are looking to deploy a wifi system on a local water tower to service and underserved area. This will be our first experience dealing with a new municipality and we have it slated for a board agenda. I was wondering if there were standard proposals out there to use, or if someone had an example they were willing to share, of what information they provide to the municipality, or what to pay attention to when trying to get space on the tower. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tower colocation request
The goal is to learn what the muni's objective is. Their objective is not always to enable broadband expansion. Sometimes a small town cares more about generating a new source of revenue. Your goal is to changed the perspective that they'll want to charge you $2000/month to co-locate, to one that they want to give you space for free, because of the economic development need to the community to deliver broadband. You'll want to be friend influencial people in the community, and get them excited about broadband. You'll want to document competence for the water tower work. Address concerns for safety, cosmetic appeal, and potential damage to the water tower. You'll want to document insurance. But mostly, you'll want to document the need for your services in the community. And you'll want to offer a direct benefit to the town government as well. (For example, inkind trade worth of broadband service to a few key public venues). You'll also want to research the zoning options for constructing towers, so you know what your alternatives are, if the town board is not cooperative. Make sure you have a long term agreement to co-locate.(For example 5 years renewable for up to 20 years.) Make sure your agreement has first-in non-intererence clauses, specifiying the spectrum ranges that you will be using. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:49 AM Subject: [WISPA] Tower colocation request Hi guys, we are looking to deploy a wifi system on a local water tower to service and underserved area. This will be our first experience dealing with a new municipality and we have it slated for a board agenda. I was wondering if there were standard proposals out there to use, or if someone had an example they were willing to share, of what information they provide to the municipality, or what to pay attention to when trying to get space on the tower. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date: 3/1/2009 5:46 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tower colocation request
Tom, Thanks this is just the sort of information I was looking for. I was also looking for maybe some notes or documentation from someone who's done the presentation dance in front of the municipality. Regards Michael Baird The goal is to learn what the muni's objective is. Their objective is not always to enable broadband expansion. Sometimes a small town cares more about generating a new source of revenue. Your goal is to changed the perspective that they'll want to charge you $2000/month to co-locate, to one that they want to give you space for free, because of the economic development need to the community to deliver broadband. You'll want to be friend influencial people in the community, and get them excited about broadband. You'll want to document competence for the water tower work. Address concerns for safety, cosmetic appeal, and potential damage to the water tower. You'll want to document insurance. But mostly, you'll want to document the need for your services in the community. And you'll want to offer a direct benefit to the town government as well. (For example, inkind trade worth of broadband service to a few key public venues). You'll also want to research the zoning options for constructing towers, so you know what your alternatives are, if the town board is not cooperative. Make sure you have a long term agreement to co-locate.(For example 5 years renewable for up to 20 years.) Make sure your agreement has first-in non-intererence clauses, specifiying the spectrum ranges that you will be using. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:49 AM Subject: [WISPA] Tower colocation request Hi guys, we are looking to deploy a wifi system on a local water tower to service and underserved area. This will be our first experience dealing with a new municipality and we have it slated for a board agenda. I was wondering if there were standard proposals out there to use, or if someone had an example they were willing to share, of what information they provide to the municipality, or what to pay attention to when trying to get space on the tower. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date: 3/1/2009 5:46 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tower colocation request
Visual aids are worth a thousand words. A photoshopping of your gear on their tower. Bring some gear too. This antenna I'm holding is big because it has to pick up such a weak signal, the federally regulated signals are 5x weaker than the cell phone you carry on your body See the drawings I've passed out to see how the gear fits to scale on the water tower railing. Customers will have a piece of equipment such as this... Have a proposal they can sign, that explains your insurance coverage, safety, professionalism, terms etc... If you let their municipal lawyer do it all, you might be sorry. On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 11:57:50AM -0500, Michael Baird wrote: Tom, Thanks this is just the sort of information I was looking for. I was also looking for maybe some notes or documentation from someone who's done the presentation dance in front of the municipality. Regards Michael Baird The goal is to learn what the muni's objective is. Their objective is not always to enable broadband expansion. Sometimes a small town cares more about generating a new source of revenue. Your goal is to changed the perspective that they'll want to charge you $2000/month to co-locate, to one that they want to give you space for free, because of the economic development need to the community to deliver broadband. You'll want to be friend influencial people in the community, and get them excited about broadband. You'll want to document competence for the water tower work. Address concerns for safety, cosmetic appeal, and potential damage to the water tower. You'll want to document insurance. But mostly, you'll want to document the need for your services in the community. And you'll want to offer a direct benefit to the town government as well. (For example, inkind trade worth of broadband service to a few key public venues). You'll also want to research the zoning options for constructing towers, so you know what your alternatives are, if the town board is not cooperative. Make sure you have a long term agreement to co-locate.(For example 5 years renewable for up to 20 years.) Make sure your agreement has first-in non-intererence clauses, specifiying the spectrum ranges that you will be using. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:49 AM Subject: [WISPA] Tower colocation request Hi guys, we are looking to deploy a wifi system on a local water tower to service and underserved area. This will be our first experience dealing with a new municipality and we have it slated for a board agenda. I was wondering if there were standard proposals out there to use, or if someone had an example they were willing to share, of what information they provide to the municipality, or what to pay attention to when trying to get space on the tower. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date: 3/1/2009 5:46 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Tower colocation request
Mike, I have had significant experience in numerous initial phase projects to encourage working with local government. For example, in my county access to watertowers was supposed to be free, in exchange for new tower errection restrictions in the community. However, I do not have any muni related documents to share. The reason is I took a different path in the past. I immediately learned that I hated beurocracy, and had little patients to spend precious time justifying to officials the value of my presence, and what I want. Free colocation was becomming to costly, and to slow and tedious of a process, for me. Based on the markets that I was targeting, I had many options in front of me. I chose the path to negotiate with private tower companies and landlords, so I could quickly get things done. I also wanted many significant protection, that was hard to get, when bartering access. I also wanted PRIME realestate, and the counties didn't own it, in my markets. I pay for everything. But I negotiate everything well down to the lowest dollar, based on real market pressures and options. I go to a prospect, with what I want to pay, what my options are, and why they should give me my price. And if they don't give it, I dont do business with them, because I know I can get my price elsewhere. But there are MANY WISPs on this list, that probably do have docs and relationships with their local muni, and I'm sure someone will step up to share Documents that you are looking for.. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower colocation request Tom, Thanks this is just the sort of information I was looking for. I was also looking for maybe some notes or documentation from someone who's done the presentation dance in front of the municipality. Regards Michael Baird The goal is to learn what the muni's objective is. Their objective is not always to enable broadband expansion. Sometimes a small town cares more about generating a new source of revenue. Your goal is to changed the perspective that they'll want to charge you $2000/month to co-locate, to one that they want to give you space for free, because of the economic development need to the community to deliver broadband. You'll want to be friend influencial people in the community, and get them excited about broadband. You'll want to document competence for the water tower work. Address concerns for safety, cosmetic appeal, and potential damage to the water tower. You'll want to document insurance. But mostly, you'll want to document the need for your services in the community. And you'll want to offer a direct benefit to the town government as well. (For example, inkind trade worth of broadband service to a few key public venues). You'll also want to research the zoning options for constructing towers, so you know what your alternatives are, if the town board is not cooperative. Make sure you have a long term agreement to co-locate.(For example 5 years renewable for up to 20 years.) Make sure your agreement has first-in non-intererence clauses, specifiying the spectrum ranges that you will be using. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:49 AM Subject: [WISPA] Tower colocation request Hi guys, we are looking to deploy a wifi system on a local water tower to service and underserved area. This will be our first experience dealing with a new municipality and we have it slated for a board agenda. I was wondering if there were standard proposals out there to use, or if someone had an example they were willing to share, of what information they provide to the municipality, or what to pay attention to when trying to get space on the tower. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date: 3/1/2009 5:46 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Tower colocation request
We utilize both muni and private locations for wireless sites. Private is by far the easiest to work with. Everyone shares the same goals, the organizational leaders change less frequently. There is less politics, things happen faster. We can not avoid dealing with municipalities though. I often wish I didn't have to deal with them. Some are great, others are more challenging, some I wouldn't even attempt a project in their town if it meant getting their permission to do something. On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 12:28:06PM -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote: Mike, I have had significant experience in numerous initial phase projects to encourage working with local government. For example, in my county access to watertowers was supposed to be free, in exchange for new tower errection restrictions in the community. However, I do not have any muni related documents to share. The reason is I took a different path in the past. I immediately learned that I hated beurocracy, and had little patients to spend precious time justifying to officials the value of my presence, and what I want. Free colocation was becomming to costly, and to slow and tedious of a process, for me. Based on the markets that I was targeting, I had many options in front of me. I chose the path to negotiate with private tower companies and landlords, so I could quickly get things done. I also wanted many significant protection, that was hard to get, when bartering access. I also wanted PRIME realestate, and the counties didn't own it, in my markets. I pay for everything. But I negotiate everything well down to the lowest dollar, based on real market pressures and options. I go to a prospect, with what I want to pay, what my options are, and why they should give me my price. And if they don't give it, I dont do business with them, because I know I can get my price elsewhere. But there are MANY WISPs on this list, that probably do have docs and relationships with their local muni, and I'm sure someone will step up to share Documents that you are looking for.. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower colocation request Tom, Thanks this is just the sort of information I was looking for. I was also looking for maybe some notes or documentation from someone who's done the presentation dance in front of the municipality. Regards Michael Baird The goal is to learn what the muni's objective is. Their objective is not always to enable broadband expansion. Sometimes a small town cares more about generating a new source of revenue. Your goal is to changed the perspective that they'll want to charge you $2000/month to co-locate, to one that they want to give you space for free, because of the economic development need to the community to deliver broadband. You'll want to be friend influencial people in the community, and get them excited about broadband. You'll want to document competence for the water tower work. Address concerns for safety, cosmetic appeal, and potential damage to the water tower. You'll want to document insurance. But mostly, you'll want to document the need for your services in the community. And you'll want to offer a direct benefit to the town government as well. (For example, inkind trade worth of broadband service to a few key public venues). You'll also want to research the zoning options for constructing towers, so you know what your alternatives are, if the town board is not cooperative. Make sure you have a long term agreement to co-locate.(For example 5 years renewable for up to 20 years.) Make sure your agreement has first-in non-intererence clauses, specifiying the spectrum ranges that you will be using. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:49 AM Subject: [WISPA] Tower colocation request Hi guys, we are looking to deploy a wifi system on a local water tower to service and underserved area. This will be our first experience dealing with a new municipality and we have it slated for a board agenda. I was wondering if there were standard proposals out there to use, or if someone had an example they were willing to share, of what information they provide to the municipality, or what to pay attention to when trying to get space on the tower. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Tower colocation request
One thing that I found helpful when we had to do this for the county years back was actually to bring in some sample equipments that we talked about installing. Also bringing picture of typical cell company tower installs. Showing them that we are looking for minimal size and will cause far less stress on the tower then what the cell company would. Also outlay our economics showing to them that we economically couldn't afford to pay these fees based on the coverage area that the technology can provide as well the economics in the area how many customer we would expect to be able to get from said tower site and compare this with how the cell phone companies require the coverage they do for their mobile users and possible even do a study on larger roads close by the tower to get amount of traffic going by there to get an estimate how many cell subscribers that do hit that tower in their wish to have their mobile phone and data service. One of tower we got co located I know Sprint wanted to go up but their engineering study I found out (from the guy that maintained the tower) required them to reinforce the tower because it wasn't deemed to be strong enough for what they wanted to do. Of course with this final info and showing what we wanted to install carried in a duffle bag made them change their tune on the amount they wanted. Plus of course. Some research finding that t most tower companies in the area charged on average no more then $1/ft/antenna. So 2 possible 3 antennas at 180ft and 2 antennas at 240ft shouldn't cost us in this case almost $1k per tower as they wanted to charge. We ended up getting on for $600 for both towers. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 11:57:50 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower colocation request Tom, Thanks this is just the sort of information I was looking for. I was also looking for maybe some notes or documentation from someone who's done the presentation dance in front of the municipality. Regards Michael Baird The goal is to learn what the muni's objective is. Their objective is not always to enable broadband expansion. Sometimes a small town cares more about generating a new source of revenue. Your goal is to changed the perspective that they'll want to charge you $2000/month to co-locate, to one that they want to give you space for free, because of the economic development need to the community to deliver broadband. You'll want to be friend influencial people in the community, and get them excited about broadband. You'll want to document competence for the water tower work. Address concerns for safety, cosmetic appeal, and potential damage to the water tower. You'll want to document insurance. But mostly, you'll want to document the need for your services in the community. And you'll want to offer a direct benefit to the town government as well. (For example, inkind trade worth of broadband service to a few key public venues). You'll also want to research the zoning options for constructing towers, so you know what your alternatives are, if the town board is not cooperative. Make sure you have a long term agreement to co-locate.(For example 5 years renewable for up to 20 years.) Make sure your agreement has first-in non-intererence clauses, specifiying the spectrum ranges that you will be using. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Michael Baird m...@tc3net.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:49 AM Subject: [WISPA] Tower colocation request Hi guys, we are looking to deploy a wifi system on a local water tower to service and underserved area. This will be our first experience dealing with a new municipality and we have it slated for a board agenda. I was wondering if there were standard proposals out there to use, or if someone had an example they were willing to share, of what information they provide to the municipality, or what to pay attention to when trying to get space on the tower. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.5/1979 - Release Date: 3/1/2009 5:46 PM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
