Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] TeXLive Pretest - XeTeX segfaults on LInux 64

[Zdenek Wagner]

2010/7/12 Martin Schröder :
> 2010/7/12 Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard :
>> so I think his answer is that it is *not* doable to ship 32 bit XeTeX on
>> LinUX64, since the user would need a 32-bit version of the dynamically linked
>> libraries.
>
> Which is the norm on OpenSUSE. :-)
>
RHEL based distributions also often contain both i386 and x84_64
libraries. If I install them via "yum install" and do not specify
required platform, then on i386 only i386 libs are installed, on
x86_64 both will be installed . I always install both because some
legacy tools do not work without i386 libraries.

> Best
>   Martin
>
>



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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Problem with ocrb10.otf ligature 'fi'

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/6/13 Pander :
> TeX Live list members: see full thread here:
> http://tug.org/pipermail/xetex/2011-June/020681.html for now keep the
> discussion at XeTeX's list.
>
> On 2011-06-13 14:22, msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Jun 2011, Pander wrote:
>>> TeX Live 2010
>>>
>>> /usr/local/texlive/2010/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/ocr-b-outline/ocrb10.otf
>>
>> That is Zdeněk Wagner's auto-conversion of Norbert Schwarz's Metafont
>> source.  It doesn't contain f-ligatures no matter what the GSUB table may
>> say.  I took a look at it with Fontforge and I see that it contains a GSUB
>> table pointing the ligatures at "alternate" and added non-ASCII characters
>> from the Schwarz version, some of which happen to be ligature-like but not
>> the correct ones.  For instance, "fl" points at the Æ glyph.
>>
>> I recogize that pattern because it happened in an earlier version of my
>> own version of the font, as a result of auto-conversion.  The thing is,
>> Schwarz's Metafont files used a nonstandard custom encoding.  If you
>> simply convert the font code point for code point to whatever the default
>> 8-bit Adobe encoding might be, you end up with Schwarz's extra glyphs at
>> the "f-ligature" code points (as well as some distortions at quotation
>> mark, dotless i and j, and similar code points).  The existence of a GSUB
>> table pointing at those points can probably be explained by defaults from
>> the auto-conversion.  So in summary, yes, it's a bug in the font.
>
> Could the conversion software generate a warning when it recognises such
> a situation?
>
The fonts were first converted to PFB by mftrace, then opened in
FontForge and saved as OTF. No warning was displayed.

>> The current version of my own OCR B fonts, available on ansuz.sooke.bc.ca,
>
> http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/page/fonts
>
>> is also based on Schwarz's, but via a more manual conversion process
>> (rewriting the Metafont sources to work with MetaType1), and I've
>> attempted to put all glyphs at their correct Unicode code points.  It
>> contains a GSUB table for alternate forms of glyphs, but none for
>> ligatures.
>>
 I just downloaded the demo from here:
       http://www.barcodesoft.com/ocr_font.aspx
>>
>>> Maybe TeX Live should use these OTF files?
>>
>> Barcodesoft's "free" version is a watermarked demo of an expensive
>> commercial product, basically just an advertisement, and for that reason I
>> wouldn't recommend its distribution in TeXLive; I'm not even sure that the
>> license agreement would allow such distribution.
>
> In effect it is freeware and is owned by Barcodesoft. But according to
> your README, one is allowed to redistribute this and your enhanced
> version. So in the same way would TeX Live be able to so. The metadata
> in the font files provides proper credits.
>
> I think, first CTAN needs to be properly updated, see:
>  http://ctan.org/search/?search=ocr&search_type=description
> Probably many of these CTAN package can merge.
>
> Subsequently TeX Live can do their update. For now, I'll forward this
> also to them.
>
> Would it also be possible to generate Bold, Italic, Light and Condensed
> versions for OCR-A and OCR-B? In that way it is also backwards
> compatible with the current OCRA fonts.
>
If someone uploads better version of OCR-A and OCR-B fonts to CTAN, I
won't mind if my fonts are deleted. I needed OCR-B for EAN13 only and
have not tested them in other situations.


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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Problem with ocrb10.otf ligature 'fi'

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/6/13 Pander :
> On 2011-06-13 15:27, Zdenek Wagner wrote:
>> 2011/6/13 Pander :
>>> TeX Live list members: see full thread here:
>>> http://tug.org/pipermail/xetex/2011-June/020681.html for now keep the
>>> discussion at XeTeX's list.
>>>
>>> On 2011-06-13 14:22, msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 13 Jun 2011, Pander wrote:
>>>>> TeX Live 2010
>>>>>
>>>>> /usr/local/texlive/2010/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/ocr-b-outline/ocrb10.otf
>>>>
>>>> That is Zdeněk Wagner's auto-conversion of Norbert Schwarz's Metafont
>>>> source.  It doesn't contain f-ligatures no matter what the GSUB table may
>>>> say.  I took a look at it with Fontforge and I see that it contains a GSUB
>>>> table pointing the ligatures at "alternate" and added non-ASCII characters
>>>> from the Schwarz version, some of which happen to be ligature-like but not
>>>> the correct ones.  For instance, "fl" points at the Æ glyph.
>>>>
>>>> I recogize that pattern because it happened in an earlier version of my
>>>> own version of the font, as a result of auto-conversion.  The thing is,
>>>> Schwarz's Metafont files used a nonstandard custom encoding.  If you
>>>> simply convert the font code point for code point to whatever the default
>>>> 8-bit Adobe encoding might be, you end up with Schwarz's extra glyphs at
>>>> the "f-ligature" code points (as well as some distortions at quotation
>>>> mark, dotless i and j, and similar code points).  The existence of a GSUB
>>>> table pointing at those points can probably be explained by defaults from
>>>> the auto-conversion.  So in summary, yes, it's a bug in the font.
>>>
>>> Could the conversion software generate a warning when it recognises such
>>> a situation?
>>>
>> The fonts were first converted to PFB by mftrace, then opened in
>> FontForge and saved as OTF. No warning was displayed.
>
> Sorry, I mean, should those software packages be improved to generate
> warnings for these kind of situations to prevent it in the future?
>
Yes, it would certainly be helpful. Since mftrace is a python script
running mf and potrace together with (or inside of) FontForge, it
should probably be reported to FontForge developers. I do not know
pythom myself, I am not a font expert, I just used the tool as a black
box.


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[XeTeX] Defining ExtGState objects

[Zdenek Wagner]

Hello,
I want to define ExtGState objects via \special{pdf: ...}. The minimal
document is:

\documentclass{article}
\special{pdf: object @opoff << /Type /ExtGState /op false /OP false /OPM 0 >>}
\special{pdf: object @opon << /Type /ExtGState /op true /OP true /OPM 1 >>}
\special{pdf: object @extgs << /GSko @opoff 0 R /GSop @opon 0 R >>}
\special{pdf: put @resources << /ExtGState @extgs 0 R >>}
\begin{document}
A
\end{document}

The requested output (achieved by pdftex) is
% 1 0 obj
<< /Type /ExtGState /op false /OP false /OPM 0 >>
% 3 0 obj
<< /Type /ExtGState /op true /OP true /OPM 1 >>
% 4 0 obj
 << /GSko 1 0 R /GSop 3 0 R >>

However, xdvipdfmx reports this error:
$ xdvipdfmx -vv -z0 test-xetex
DVI Comment:  XeTeX output
2011.09.07:1234
test-xetex.xdv -> test-xetex.pdf
[1
** WARNING ** Could not find a name object.
** WARNING ** Could not find a key in dictionary object.
** WARNING ** Could not find an object definition for "extgs".
** WARNING ** Interpreting special command object (pdf:) failed.
** WARNING ** >> at page="1" position="(133.768, 717.088)" (in PDF)
** WARNING ** >> xxx "pdf: object @extgs << /GSko @opoff 0 R /GSop @opon 0 R >>"
** WARNING ** >> Reading special command stopped around >><< /GSko
@opoff 0 R /GSop @opon 0 R >><<

Current input buffer is -->pdf: object @extgs << /GSko @opoff 0 R
/GSop @opon...<--

** WARNING ** Could not find a name object.
** WARNING ** Could not find a key in dictionary object.
** WARNING ** Missing (an) object(s) to put into "resources"!
** WARNING ** Interpreting special command put (pdf:) failed.
** WARNING ** >> at page="1" position="(133.768, 717.088)" (in PDF)
** WARNING ** >> xxx "pdf: put @resources << /ExtGState @extgs 0 R >>"
** WARNING ** >> Reading special command stopped around >><<
/ExtGState @extgs 0 R >><<

Current input buffer is -->pdf: put @resources << /ExtGState @extgs 0 R >><--
 cmr10.pfb

pdf_font>> Simple font "cmr10.pfb" enc_id= opened at
font_id=.
>]
** WARNING ** Unresolved object reference "extgs" found!!!
(cmr10.pfb[CMR10][built-in][Type1][3 glyphs][482 bytes])
1856 bytes written

** WARNING ** 1 memory objects still allocated

The PDF files from pdflatex and xelatex are available from
http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/overprint/ (with compresslevel set to
zero).

What am I doing wrong?

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Re: [XeTeX] Defining ExtGState objects

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/7 Heiko Oberdiek :
> On Wed, Sep 07, 2011 at 01:02:38PM +0200, Zdenek Wagner wrote:
>
> ...
>
> The references are different from pdfTeX, in pdfTeX you
> specify the number followed by "0 R". But in dvipdfm(x)/XeTeX the
> objects are referenced by name without "0 R":
>  \special{pdf: object @extgs << /GSko @opoff /GSop @opon >>}
>  \special{pdf: put @resources << /ExtGState @extgs >>}
>
Thank you.

> Yours sincerely
>  Heiko Oberdiek
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/10 Neal Delmonico :
> Greetings,
>
> I have a question.  How does one get the hyphenation to work for
> transliterated Sanskrit as well as it does for Sanskrit in Devenagari.  I
> use the same text in Devanagari and Roman transliteration and yet in the
> Devanagari the hyphenation works fine and in the transliteration it does
> not.  Is there some trick to setting up the transliteration so that the
> hyphenation works?
>
It is necessary to modify the hyphenation patterns and then rebuild the format.

> Thanks.
>
> Neal
>
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>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/11 Neal Delmonico :
> How does one do that?  Where are the patterns kept and what format needs to
> be rebuilt.  Sorry for being so clueless about this.
>
Sorry for the noise, I located the patterns and as Mojca wrote, the
patterns for the transliteration are present. It should work out of
the box unless you use a different transliteration. An example
including the log file will help to find the source of the problem.

> Best
>
> Neal
>
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 15:47:38 -0500, Zdenek Wagner 
> wrote:
>
>> 2011/9/10 Neal Delmonico :
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> I have a question.  How does one get the hyphenation to work for
>>> transliterated Sanskrit as well as it does for Sanskrit in Devenagari.  I
>>> use the same text in Devanagari and Roman transliteration and yet in the
>>> Devanagari the hyphenation works fine and in the transliteration it does
>>> not.  Is there some trick to setting up the transliteration so that the
>>> hyphenation works?
>>>
>> It is necessary to modify the hyphenation patterns and then rebuild the
>> format.
>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Neal
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/11 Mojca Miklavec :
> On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 00:39, Neal Delmonico wrote:
>> Here is an example of what I mean in the pdf attached.
>
> Do I get it right that hyphenation is working, it is just that it
> misses a lot of valid hyphenation points?
>
> You should talk to Yves Codet, the author of Sanskrit patterns.
>
> But PLEASE: do post example of your code when you ask for help. If you
> don't send the source, it is not clear whether you are in fact using
> Sanskrit patterns or if you are falling back to English when you try
> to switch fonst. You could just as well sent us PDF with French
> hyphenation enabled and claim that TeX is buggy since it doesn't
> hyphenate right.
>
It is really strange that so many hyphenation points are missing and I
have even noticed wrong hyphenation between b and h in bha. There must
be something wrong in your file. I have just downloaded and installed
Charis SIL and I see all characters are present, thus this is not a
problem of the font. I have not examined the paterns thoroughly but
the number of patterns for each script matches. The patterns contain
rules not to hyphenate in the middle of aspirated consonant, so I do
not understand why bha is hyphenated in your document.

> Mojca
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/11 Neal Delmonico :
> Here is the source files for the pdf.  Sorry to take so long to send them.
>
Your default language for polygliglossia is defined as English. You
switch to Sanskrit only inside the \skt macro. The text in Devanagari
is therefore hyphenated according to Sanskrit rules but the
transliterated text is hyphenated according to the English rules. You
have to switch the language to Sanskrit also for the transliterated
text.

> Best
>
> Neal
>
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 17:53:42 -0500, Mojca Miklavec
>  wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 00:39, Neal Delmonico wrote:
>>>
>>> Here is an example of what I mean in the pdf attached.
>>
>> Do I get it right that hyphenation is working, it is just that it
>> misses a lot of valid hyphenation points?
>>
>> You should talk to Yves Codet, the author of Sanskrit patterns.
>>
>> But PLEASE: do post example of your code when you ask for help. If you
>> don't send the source, it is not clear whether you are in fact using
>> Sanskrit patterns or if you are falling back to English when you try
>> to switch fonst. You could just as well sent us PDF with French
>> hyphenation enabled and claim that TeX is buggy since it doesn't
>> hyphenate right.
>>
>> Mojca
>>
>>
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Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/11 Neal Delmonico :
> Thanks to both Yves and Zdenek for your suggestions and examples.  The
> hyphenation is working now in both Devanagari and Roman Translit.  I'd have
> never figured it out on my own.  If I were to want to read more on this
> where would I look?
>
Frankly I do not know. I often read the source code of the packages in
order to uinderstand the internals. In fact I even studied the whole
source code of LaTeX.

> Also Zdenek raises an interesting possibility.  If I were to want to typeset
> Sanskrit, say this very Sanskrit, in Bengali or Telugu script.  How would I
> go about that?
>
Probably you can mechanically rewrite RomDev.map to convert the
transliteration to another script and compile it with teckit_compile.
I do not know Sanskrit and do not know other scripts, my knowledge in
this area is almost zero, so I am not sure whether such mechanical
approach would work.

> Thanks again.
>
> Neal
>
> On Sun, 11 Sep 2011 04:32:59 -0500, Zdenek Wagner 
> wrote:
>
>> 2011/9/11 Neal Delmonico :
>>>
>>> Thanks!  How would one set it up so that the English portions are
>>> hyphenated
>>> according to English rules and the transliteration is hyphenated
>>> according
>>> to Sanskrit rules?
>>>
>> I am sending an example. You can see another nice feature of the
>> TECkit mapping. The mapping is applied when the text is typeset. You
>> can thus store the transliterated text in a temporary macro and
>> typeset it twice.
>>
>> There is one problem (this is the reason why I am sending a copy to
>> François). It is requested that Sanskrit text is typeset by a font
>> with Devanagari characters. However, Sanskrit is also written in other
>> scripts so that people in other parts of India, who do not know
>> Devanagari, could read it. Even the Tibetan script contains retroflex
>> consonants that are not used in the Tibetan language but server for
>> writing Sanskrit (and recently writing words of English origin).
>> Polyglossia should not be that demanding.
>>
>> And just to François: I found two bugs in documentation. Section 5.2
>> mentions selection between Western and Devanagari numerals, but it
>> should be Bengali numerals (I am not sure which option is really
>> implemented). At the introduction, Vafa Khaligi's name is wrong. AFAIK
>> in Urdu and Farsi, the isolated and final form of YEH are dotless (it
>> is not a big bug), but in fact the name is written as Khaliql, there
>> is ق instead of غ
>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Neal
>>>
>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 19:40:51 -0500, Zdenek Wagner
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> 2011/9/11 Neal Delmonico :
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is the source files for the pdf.  Sorry to take so long to send
>>>>> them.
>>>>>
>>>> Your default language for polygliglossia is defined as English. You
>>>> switch to Sanskrit only inside the \skt macro. The text in Devanagari
>>>> is therefore hyphenated according to Sanskrit rules but the
>>>> transliterated text is hyphenated according to the English rules. You
>>>> have to switch the language to Sanskrit also for the transliterated
>>>> text.
>>>>
>>>>> Best
>>>>>
>>>>> Neal
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 17:53:42 -0500, Mojca Miklavec
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 00:39, Neal Delmonico wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here is an example of what I mean in the pdf attached.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do I get it right that hyphenation is working, it is just that it
>>>>>> misses a lot of valid hyphenation points?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You should talk to Yves Codet, the author of Sanskrit patterns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But PLEASE: do post example of your code when you ask for help. If you
>>>>>> don't send the source, it is not clear whether you are in fact using
>>>>>> Sanskrit patterns or if you are falling back to English when you try
>>>>>> to switch fonst. You could just as well sent us PDF with French
>>>>>> hyphenation enabled and claim that TeX is buggy since it doesn't
>>>>>> hyphenate right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mojca
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/12 Mojca Miklavec :
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 09:36, Yves Codet wrote:
>> Hello.
>>
>> A question to specialists, Arthur and Mojca maybe :) Is it necessary to have 
>> two sets of hyphenation rules, one in NFC and one in NFD? Or, if hyphenation 
>> patterns are written in NFC, for instance, will they be applied correctly to 
>> a document written in NFD?
>
> That depends on engine.
>
> >From what I understand, XeTeX does normalize the input, so NFD should
> work fine. But I'm only speaking from memory based on Jonathan's talk
> at BachoTeX. I might be wrong. I'm not sure what LuaTeX does. If one
> doesn't write the code, it might be that no normalization will ever
> take place.
>
I am not an expert on Unicode and do not know what XeTeX does and
when. I made a test in Hindi when implementing sort rules in Xindy.
What I am speaking about is sample 4 available from
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz/xindy-devanagari/ (this is what I
presented last year in Brejlov). Hindi makes use of characters with
nuktas. For instance, za can be entered as U+095B or as ja U+091C
followed by nukta U+093C. The latter can be found in the wordlist used
in aspell. In my sample the first page contains a few words where all
"nukte vale" characters are written directly, on the second page the
same words are written using nukta signs. The first index shows that
the \index macro wrote the input without any change, I had to use
merge rules in Xindy. I have not looked what was written to xdv and
now gedit does some strange things...

> I can also easily imagine that our patterns don't work with NFD input
> with Hyphenator.js. I'm not sure how patterns in Firefox or OpenOffice
> deal with normalization. I never tested that.
>
> But in my opinion engine *should* be capable of doing normalization.
> Else you can easily end up with exponential problem. A patterns with 3
> accented letters can easily result in 8 or even more duplicated
> patterns to cover all possible combinations of composed-or-decomposed
> characters.
>
> Arthur had some plans to cover normalization in hyph-utf8, but I
> already hate the idea of duplicated apostrophe, let alone all
> duplications just for the sake of "stupid engines that don't
> understand unicode" :).
>
> Mojca
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/12 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) :
>
>
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 12:09, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)
>>  wrote:
>>> I wish I understood more about the "duplicate apostophe" problem, in order
>>> to be able to offer a more directly relevant (and constructive) comment :
>>> Google throws up nothing relevant.
>> Users type ' (U+0027) and expect the proper apostrophe (U+2019) to
>> show up in final PDF. Knuth just replaced the character (you cannot
>> get U+0027 in pdfTeX, except in typewriter font). In XeTeX
>> mapping=tex-text does that, but not all users use that one, so we need
>> to support both variants.
>
> OK, (sort of) understood.  But does a Unicode-aware user /really/ type  
> (U+0027)
> [APOSTROPHE] if if he/she wants (U+0219) [ RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK]
> other than through habit/laziness ?  I can quite see an ASCII-based TeX user 
> doing
> just that, but those that are capable of entering real Unicode must surely be 
> aware
> of the multiplicity of apostrophe-like characters [1] available to them, and 
> be capable
> of choosing the correct one, must they not ?
>
This is the problem of keyboard. If I type the text, I want to type
it, not click in a symbol map. thus I use characters available on my
keyboard and those that can be easily entered by macros in TeX. I have
recently modified my private xkb drivers for Czech and Devanagari by
adding Czech and English quotes, endash and emdash. I need them not
only in TeX but also in XML and HTML.

> ** Phil.
> 
> [1] Including, but not restricted to, APOSTROPHE, RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK,
> LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK, PRIME, MODIFIER LETTER PRIME,
> SINGLE HIGH-REVERSED-9 QUOTATION MARK, ...
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Is this a bug in xelatex/xdvipdfmx ?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/12  :
> Hi All,
>    Few years ago, I have bought few fonts type 1 from Bitstream. Even,
> if they are only type 1, they are sufficient for most of the documents
> I have to write.
>
> When I want to use them with all the TeX engines (pdflatex, lualatex, 
> latex+dvips+ps2pdf)
> I get normal results. But when I try to use them with xelatex (and dvipdfmx), 
> I get
> the following error message and the accented characters are not displayed.
>
A few days ago the very same error was reported in the TeX Live list
even for free Charter Bitstream and latex + dvipdfm. AFAIK there is no
solution yet.

> Error message:
> ** WARNING ** Obsolete four arguments of "endchar" will be used for Type 1 
> "seac" operator.
>
> In attachement, you will find a short example allowing to reproduce the 
> problem, with
> few result (pdf files produced by the running of pdflatex, latex, xelatex, 
> lualatex).
>
> In the attachment, only, the commercial type 1 font is not provided. I will 
> give it however if needed
> to correct the problem, but I prefer not to distribute it too widely now.
>
> regards,
>
> rhino64
>
> ---Example of 
> document
> \documentclass{article}                                                       
>                                                                
> │···
> \usepackage{chianti} %this load a nice bitstream type1 font                   
>                                                                
> │···
>                                                                               
>                                                               │···
> %\usepackage[utf8x]{inputenc} %for pdflatex                                   
>                                                                
> │···
>                                                                               
>                                                               │···
> \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}                                                      
>                                                                
> │···
> \begin{document}                                                              
>                                                                
> │···
> Une baleine, cétacé ? Non merci, c'est trop.                                  
>                                                                
> │···
> \end{document}
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/12 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) :
>
>
> maxwell wrote:
>> I still have a chance to win, if I can just find my dissertation, which I 
>> preserved on a 9-track tape: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-track_tape 
>> Produced on a CDC Cyber 170/750, with 60-bit words and 12-bit bytes; only 
>> upper case letters, so lower case letters were encoded with an \E\S\C\A\P\E 
>> \C\H\A\R\A\C\H\T\E\R.
>
> "9-track tape" -- ee, these youngsters don't know they're born.
> When ah were lad, us used to punch 'oles in paper tape using
> grandad's used matchsticks, and littl'uns used to fight
> over 'ood get chads (they used 'em to fool their mams
> into thinkin' they 'ad dandruff ...).
>
> Does tha' remember CDC 6400, lad : real machine, that
> were : Cyber's didn't come along until I were nearing retirement ...
>
I did some work on JPR-12, Czech computer, JPR stands for jednotka
programového řízení (program control unit). 12-bit bytes, 4 kB of
ferrite memory, so its contets was preserved when power failed, 256
input/output ports, no integrated circuits, everything was made just
of transistors. When I sent a listing of my assembler program to a
teletype, people in the whole building thought that I use a machine
gun.
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Dinosaurs

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/12 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) :
>
>
> Tobias Schoel wrote:
>> Shouldn't real dinosaurs (real as in MTV Real Life) calculate using only the 
>> Peano Axioms and the unary system? I mean, the natural numbers and the peano 
>> axioms are nature given / god given (choose whatever you like) and every 
>> human before homo sapiens had only the cognitive capabilities to use the 
>> unary system: “Hey, I saw | deer, let's go hunt them.” “Oh no, I saw ||| 
>> lions, they would kill us.”
>
> Are you sure ? My understanding of palæoanthropology is that, long
> before man was able to differentiate | deer from  deer,
> he could tell | deer from || deer from > || deer, and that was the
> limit of his calculating ability.
>
I am not an expert but I have seen in some internet textbook of
Sanskrit that originally there were just three numerals: one, two,
many. This is probably a reason why some languages have singular, dual
and plural.

> ** Phil.
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Portable code and xetex

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/13  :
> Hi All,
>     I want to develop/adapt some personal styles to XeTeX (to include
> polyglossia instead of babel for instance).
>
> I want however to keep the compatibility with other TeX engines. Long
> ago I have used a portable test but I don't remember exactly the command.
>
> I have done a quick research on the web, but without much interesting result.
> For what I remember, the command was similar to "\ifXeTeX...".
>
\ifxetex (see ifxetex.sty)
I did such type of switching in another way. The main package contains
something like \RequirePackage{subpackage} and I have two
subpackage.sty files. XeLaTeX looks first to directories under
$TEXMF/tex/xelatex, this is the place where the XeLaTeX's
subpackage.sty is located while the "old-style" LaTeX's subpackage.sty
is somewhere below $TEXMF/tex/latex.
If you decide to use my package zwpagelayout, you can find its
switches that are based upon the ifxetex and ifpdf packages.

> Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>
> best regards,
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] using xetex, leaflet and includegraphics

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/15 Peter Dyballa :
>
> Am 15.09.2011 um 10:13 schrieb Marc Hohl:
>
>> I used "xdvi" instead of "dvipdfm"
>
> How can you display an XDV (or PDF) file with xdvi?
>
> Dvipdfm is neither able to use an XDV file, the intermediary output format of 
> XeTeX, which you usually do not see, because it's piped to xdvipdfmx, which 
> produces PDF.
>
>> ! LaTeX Error: File `logo.bb' not found.
>
Remember that graphics inclusion is not a job of TeX but a job of the
driver. You have to find what the driver can use. Original TeX itself
is not able to find the size of images, there are extensions that can
do it for some graphic formats. And of course, when using XeTeX, you
have to use a driver capable to process xdv.

> Ebb produces the BB (XBB) file for dvipdfm(x).
>
>
> BTW, if you want to produce leaflets of arbitrary geometry, you should use 
> the geometry package.
>
Or zwpagelayout.
> --
> Mit friedvollen Grüßen
>
>  Pete
>
> A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no longer 
> anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away.
>- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Polyglossia "broken"?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/21 Arash Zeini :
> Hello,
>
See the previous thread open by Alex Hamann

> I updated my vanilla TexLive 2011 installation two days ago and have since
> been unable to compile my document correctly. Nothing has changed in my
> document but I now receive 181 error messages, most of which relate to
> polyglossia. Here are some examples:
>
> Package polyglossia Warning: \english@font@rm is not defined on input line 27.
>
> ! Extra \fi.
> \inlineextras@german ...ds \german@shorthands \fi
>
> l.183 ...e (`\textgerman{individuelle Lebensdauer}
>                                                  ').\footnote{For an
> altern...
>
> My editor opens up this section of polyglossia.sty:
>
> %% ensure localization of \markright and \markboth commands
> %%% THIS IS NOW DISABLED BY DEFAULT
> \define@boolkey{polyglossia}[xpg@]{localmarks}[false]{%
>   \ifbool{xpg@localmarks}{%
>      \xpg@info{Option:~ localmarks}%
> ...
>
> And this minimal example successfully reproduces the errors:
>
> \documentclass[a4paper,12pt,oneside]{memoir}
> \usepackage{fontspec}
> \setmainfont[Mapping=tex-text]{Linux Libertine O}
> \usepackage{polyglossia}
> \setdefaultlanguage[variant=british]{english}
> \setotherlanguages{german, french}
>
> \begin{document}
> \begin{quote}
>        \textgerman{Die Wahrheit wird, auch hier, in der Mitte der Gegensätze
> liegen \dots}
> \end{quote}
> \end{document}
>
> Does anyone happen to know what might cause these errors?
>
> Best wishes,
> Arash
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Polyglossia "broken"?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/21 Herbert Schulz :
>
> On Sep 21, 2011, at 7:21 AM, VAFA KHALIGHI wrote:
>
>>> It is a bug in polyglossia that xkeyval has to be loaded manually
>>> before polyglossia, because polyglossia has
>>> forgotten \RequirePackage{xkeyval}.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Not really. fontspec used to load xkeyval and polyglossia loaded fontspec so
>> there was no need for polyglossia to load xkeyval again.
>
>
> Howdy,
>
> It should have been there anyway since I believe \RequirePackage won't load 
> xkeyval again if it's already loaded.
>
That's right. \RequirePackage and \usepackage maintain internally a
list of already loaded packages. There is one potential problem, you
are not specified a different list of options. Thus if you use
\RequirePackage{something} without any options, it is harmless. If a
user needs "something" with some options, he or she must load it
explicitely with these options in advance.

> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Polyglossia "broken"?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/21 Heiko Oberdiek :
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 02:34:41PM +0200, Zdenek Wagner wrote:
>
>> That's right. \RequirePackage and \usepackage maintain internally a
>> list of already loaded packages. There is one potential problem, you
>> are not specified a different list of options. Thus if you use
>> \RequirePackage{something} without any options, it is harmless. If a
>> user needs "something" with some options, he or she must load it
>> explicitely with these options in advance.
>
> The option lists may differ. But the requirement of LaTeX is that
> the option list of the first load request is the superset of
> the options in all load requests.
> ("load request": \RequirePackage, \usepackage, (\PassOptionsToPackage))
>
> \usepackage[foo,bar,xyz]{something}
> \usepackage[bar,foo,xyz]{something}
> \usepackage[bar]{something}
> \usepackage{something}
>
> is ok, but any new option given later
>  \usepackage[foo,bar,xyz]{something}
>  \usepackage[new]{something}% throws an error
>
> If there is an option clash, the user can press "h" to get
> the exented help text of the error and LaTeX shows the options.
> Then the user can resolve it by calling the package earlier with
> the option superset as option list. And the package documentation
> needs to be checked, if options of this package might overwrite
> each other.
>
Agreed. What I meant was if package "anything" contains
\RequirePackage{something} without any options but user needs
"something" with some option, then the correct way is

\usepackage[options]{something}
\usepackage{anything}

I am not sure whether the same effect can be achieved by giving the
option in \documentclass, probably yes but I would have to check it. I
agree that it is a bug if a package relies that a requested package
will be loaded by some automagic mechanism.

> Yours sincerely
>  Heiko Oberdiek
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Polyglossia "broken"?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/21 Arash Zeini :
> On Wednesday 21 September 2011, VAFA KHALIGHI wrote:
>> fontspec loads xunicode and xunicode has been updated recently. What
>> happens if you load exaccent before polyglossia?
>
> Nothing. I get the same error messages as before.
>
What packages are loaded before exaccent? Suppose that both packages
foo and bar define macro \something. If you load

\usepackage{foo}
\usepackage{bar}

you will get an error in bar. If you change the order, you will get
the same error, but now in foo. This will inform you that two packages
define the same macro. You have to examine carefully the log file to
see where the error appears. It may be useful to set
\errorcontextlines to a higher value in order to see more details
(default value is zero) I usually put \errorcontextlines=999 just
below \documentclass.

> Arash
>
>
>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 12:04 AM, Arash Zeini  wrote:
>> > Thanks for all the posts. Vafa's mail below answers my question about
>> > recent
>> > changes.
>> >
>> > Loading xkeyval before polyglossia takes care of the problem in the
>> > minimal example, but not in my actual document where I also load
>> > exaccent. In this case I receive complaints about \upperaccent and other
>> > commands being already
>> > defined.
>> >
>> > Arash
>> >
>> > On Wednesday 21 September 2011, VAFA KHALIGHI wrote:
>> > > I do not know about your other error messages but I guess they all
>> > > should be related to fontspec. A similar questions was asked on the
>> > > TeXLive mailing list and Wagner perhaps thought that your question was
>> > > on the TeXLive mailng list; that is why...
>> > >
>> > > fontspec does not load xkeyval anymore (but used to load xkeyval),
>> > > polyglossia uses xkeyval but does not load it since it loads fontspec
>> > > and fontspec used to load xkeyval anymore.
>> > >
>> > > 2011/9/21 Arash Zeini 
>> > >
>> > > > On Wednesday 21 September 2011, Zdenek Wagner wrote:
>> > > > > 2011/9/21 Arash Zeini :
>> > > > > > Hello,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > See the previous thread open by Alex Hamann
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks for your prompt response. I am unable to locate a recent and
>> > > > relevant
>> > > > thread started by Alex Hamann.
>> > > >
>> > > > Vafa's suggestion of loading xkeyval before polyglossia reduces the
>> > > > number of
>> > > > errors drastically but brings up new ones related to exaccent, which
>> > > > I load after xkeyval and polyglossia.
>> > > >
>> > > > My apologies if I am missing the obvious. I am wondering what could
>> >
>> > have
>> >
>> > > > changed in the past week or so.
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks and best wishes,
>> > > > Arash
>> > > >
>> > > > > > I updated my vanilla TexLive 2011 installation two days ago and
>> >
>> > have
>> >
>> > > > > > since been unable to compile my document correctly. Nothing has
>> > > > > > changed in my document but I now receive 181 error messages, most
>> >
>> > of
>> >
>> > > > > > which relate to polyglossia. Here are some examples:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Package polyglossia Warning: \english@font@rm is not defined on
>> >
>> > input
>> >
>> > > > > > line 27.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > ! Extra \fi.
>> > > > > > \inlineextras@german ...ds \german@shorthands \fi
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > l.183 ...e (`\textgerman{individuelle Lebensdauer}
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >                                                  ').\footnote{For
>> >
>> > an
>> >
>> > > > > > altern...
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > My editor opens up this section of polyglossia.sty:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > %% ensure localization of \markright and \markboth commands
>> > > > > > %%% THIS IS NOW DISABLED BY DEFAULT
>> > > > > > \define@boolkey{polyglossia}[xpg@]{localmarks}[false]{%
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >   \ifb

Re: [XeTeX] Compatibility issues with ednotes and pstricks or TikZ

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/21 VAFA KHALIGHI :
> I am not sure what is the actual problem but I can tell you what bidi does.
> bidi does the following:
>
Can it depend on the order in which the packages are loaded? This is
what I would try. My feeling is that the correct order would be tikz,
endnote, bidi.

> 1- makes l and r logical such that l means always left and r always means
> right (in both RTL and LTR).
>
> 2- bidi automatically puts tikzpicture and pspicture envoronments in LTR
> mode mainly for two reasons:
> a) RTL picture environment does not make sense.
> b) XeTeX in RTL mode, with \special has bugs and tikz and pstricks both uses
> \special so we have no other choice but putting pspicture and tikzpicture
> inside LTR mode.
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 12:26 AM, Nathan Sidoli 
> wrote:
>>
>> I realize this is not strictly speaking a XeTeX issue, but I am
>> typesetting a critical edition of an Arabic text using XeLaTeX with the
>> ednotes package and I want to be able to make the diagrams for the text
>> using either pstricks or TikZ so that the Arabic fonts can be changed in the
>> text and diagrams simply by toggling the initial font setting.
>>
>> When I load either of these graphics packages, however, the line numbers
>> in the margins of the Arabic text disappear.
>>
>> Has any one had a similar problem? Can any one think of a possible
>> solution?
>>
>> I can work on a minimal example, but it will probably not be that minimal.
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [XeTeX] Difference between XeLaTeX and LaTeX

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/21 Suresh Avvarulakshmi, Integra-PDY, IN
:
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> Are they any comparisons documents, which shows the difference between
> XeLaTeX and LaTeX typesettings?
>
I do not know but it can be said quite simply. In any case, it is
Lamport's LaTeX with extensions. The macrolanguage is the same. The
differences stem from the differences in extensions:

1. Output driver, XeLaTeX cannot create dvi, thus dvips and similar
programs cannot be used. It is important to know when including
graphics.

2. XeLaTeX cannot use microtypographical extensions but it may change
in the future. Currently pdflatex or lualatex is needed.

3. Classical LaTeX cannot work in UTF-8, only 8bit encodings are
supported. Although the inputenc package offers input in Unicode by
means of active characters, the character is composed from a series of
bytes during macro expansion. This may break certain macros. XeLaTeX
work in UTF-8 where a character is a character.

4. Classical LaTeX has no direct support for non-latin scripts.
Preprocessors are usually needed. I am aware of a preprocessor for
Velthuis encoding for Davanagari, Gurmukhi and Bengali. I am not aware
of any support for Dravidian scripts. On the contrary, XeLaTeX works
with these scripts directly.

5. Classical LaTeX can only work with TeX fonts. If you buy a font,
you have to create TFM and FD, you have to select an encoding known by
LateX. If it is an OpenType font, you have to convert it to (possibly
a searies of) type1 fonts, OpenType features will be unavailable. With
XeLaTeX or lualatex you just install the font in your OS and it can be
used as such, Opentype features can be utiized.

6. Since non-TeX fonts can be used and vendors do not care on
portability, it no longer holds that the same source document will be
typeset exactly the same way anywhere in the world or at any time. It
can be a problem if you have to share and store documents (unless you
are sure that exactly the same version of fonts is used) but you need
not care if you just want to produce PDF once and it will never change
in the future. (This is the philosophy of the Prague Bulletin of
Mathematical Linguistics, per definition the right PDF is that typeset
by the editors, they after reviews and proofs create a PDF, have it
printed, put it to the web and this is the final version that will
never change).

Most packages deal with macros, not with the particular engine/output
driver. You can use them no matter whether you use pdflatex, lualatex,
classical LaTeX with dvips or XeLaTeX. Other packages are able to
detect the engine/driver and adapt itself. Thus the only difference
from the user's point of view is the font/script issue.

Hope this helps.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Suresh
>
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Re: [XeTeX] polyglossia and french

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/25 Mojca Miklavec :
> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 22:55, Alan Munn wrote:
>> On Sep 24, 2011, at 3:34 PM, rhin...@postmail.ch wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>    When typesetting documents in french with polyglossia,
>>> a space is added before double punctuation signs (like !:?...).
>>>
>>> This is normal in french typography used in France. However,
>>> here in Switzerland, it is more usual to not use this
>>> extra space.
> /.../
>> There's a command \nofrench@punctuation which turns off all the French 
>> related punctuation.
> /.../
>> So to selectively turn off the special spacing for particular characters, 
>> redefine this command by commenting out the lines that correspond to spacing 
>> that you wish to keep, and then issue the command to turn of the uncommented 
>> ones.
>
> I don't know anything about French in Switzerland, but if such a usage
> is common, it makes more sense to add an option to Polyglossia to
> switch French spacing off with a package option/language-specific
> setting instead of resorting to low level commands.
>
I have received a private mail from François Charette saying that he
no longer has time to maintain polyglossia and he offered the package
to others to become maintainers. I myself will not have any time tilll
the end of this year and moreover do not know git and have no time to
learn it. If someone is able to clone it, migrate it to subversion (or
cvs) and become a new maintainer, i will actively join the team of
developers in January 2012.

> Mojca
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] polyglossia and french

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/25  :
> On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 09:11:55AM +0200, Zdenek Wagner wrote:
>> 2011/9/25 Mojca Miklavec :
>> > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 22:55, Alan Munn wrote:
>> >> On Sep 24, 2011, at 3:34 PM, rhin...@postmail.ch wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hi All,
>> >>>    When typesetting documents in french with polyglossia,
>> >>> a space is added before double punctuation signs (like !:?...).
>> >>>
>> >>> This is normal in french typography used in France. However,
>> >>> here in Switzerland, it is more usual to not use this
>> >>> extra space.
>> > /.../
>> >> There's a command \nofrench@punctuation which turns off all the French 
>> >> related punctuation.
>> > /.../
>> >> So to selectively turn off the special spacing for particular characters, 
>> >> redefine this command by commenting out the lines that correspond to 
>> >> spacing that you wish to keep, and then issue the command to turn of the 
>> >> uncommented ones.
>> >
>> > I don't know anything about French in Switzerland, but if such a usage
>> > is common, it makes more sense to add an option to Polyglossia to
>> > switch French spacing off with a package option/language-specific
>> > setting instead of resorting to low level commands.
>> >
>> I have received a private mail from François Charette saying that he
>> no longer has time to maintain polyglossia and he offered the package
>> to others to become maintainers. I myself will not have any time tilll
>> the end of this year and moreover do not know git and have no time to
>> learn it. If someone is able to clone it, migrate it to subversion (or
>> cvs) and become a new maintainer, i will actively join the team of
>> developers in January 2012.
>>
> Hi All,
>     Thanks for replying me with these ideas. I could perhaps
> do a part of the work since I will have a certain amount of time
> until the end of year.
>
> As far as I know, GIT is not very different from CVS/Subversion
> (the joke about Git is that it is the answer to the question:"who is the boss 
> ?").
> Where the CVS/Subversion repository should be located ?  For me, the choice of
> a source control system is not a big problem: I can work with all the three.
>
I have an account on Sarovar and an old account on SourceForge (I hope
I still remember the password). The Velthuis Devanagari project is on
CVS (for years) but now I prefer subversion (I use it for private
projects where I am the only developer).

> I think effectively, that an option to the package could be a nice solution,
> since it is possible that other differences occur. For instance the wording
> could be sometimes different from the french spoken in France
> (like the difference between American an British english).
>
> What does imply to add an option "romand" (the french speaking part of
> of Switzerland is often called "Romandie") to polyglossia. Should I clone
> the Git repository, do the modifications and hope they will be integrated
> in the main stream ?
>
>
> best regards,
>
> Alain
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] polyglossia and french

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/9/25 Javier Bezos :
>
>> I have received a private mail from François Charette saying that he
>> no longer has time to maintain polyglossia and he offered the package
>> to others to become maintainers. I myself will not have any time tilll
>> the end of this year and moreover do not know git and have no time to
>> learn it. If someone is able to clone it, migrate it to subversion (or
>> cvs) and become a new maintainer, i will actively join the team of
>> developers in January 2012.
>
> On the other hand, I intend to provide a XeTeX back-end for babel
> in short. I've made some tests and I was able to typeset a document
> in Russian with babel and a few additional macros. I presume I'll
> start working by November.
>
> Not that I like babel, but it's what most users want and what most
> TUGs support.
>
I could use babel with XeLaTeX without any modification. The problem
is that in non-unicode babel a lot of things is implemented via active
characters. Thus if you use czech or slovak option, \cline ceases to
work. If you use slovak or latin option, accent \^ is no longer
available. There are a lot of other tricky clashes that can break
multilingual documents where parts are written by different authors.
One journal had a problem with English + French + Chinese + Arabic + a
lof of math and linguistic diagrams. It took me almost a week to solve
all these problems and typeset all what the authors wished.

> Javier
> -
> http://www.tex-tipografia.com
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Polyglossia "broken"?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/1 Herbert Schulz :
>
> On Oct 1, 2011, at 3:25 AM, Dominik Wujastyk wrote:
>
>> On 21 September 2011 17:52, Heiko Oberdiek 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> It is a bug in polyglossia that xkeyval has to be loaded manually
>>> before polyglossia, because polyglossia has
>>> forgotten \RequirePackage{xkeyval}.
>>>
>>
>> Okay, now that everything has been discussed,  is someone actually going to
>> add this \RequirePackage{xkeyval} to polyglossia?  If nobody else will do
>> it, I shall.
>>
>> As things stand,
>>
>> \documentclass{article}
>> \usepackage{polyglossia}
>> \begin{document}
>> Hello world!
>> \end{document}
>>
>> fails to compile cleanly.  That state of affairs can't be left to stand.
>>
>> Best,
>> Dominik
>
>
> Howdy,
>
> Best thing to do is to ask François Charette, the listed maintainer, if he 
> will do it or if he's willing to make you, or someone else who is willing to 
> do the job, the maintainer of the package.
>
François wrote me that he is no longer able to maintain it and
searches someone who will continue his work. I do not know git and
have no time to learn it. If someone oves it to subversion (or at
least cvs) and adds me as a developer, I can do it. Adding
\RequirePackage is siple and I can do it quickly (or if somebody else
does it...). There are other possible improvements but I can deal more
with the package probably only since January next year.

> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Polyglossia "broken"?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/1 Dominik Wujastyk :
> On 21 September 2011 17:52, Heiko Oberdiek 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> It is a bug in polyglossia that xkeyval has to be loaded manually
>> before polyglossia, because polyglossia has
>> forgotten \RequirePackage{xkeyval}.
>
> Okay, now that everything has been discussed,  is someone actually going to
> add this \RequirePackage{xkeyval} to polyglossia?  If nobody else will do
> it, I shall.
>
> As things stand,
>
> \documentclass{article}
> \usepackage{polyglossia}
> \begin{document}
> Hello world!
> \end{document}
>
> fails to compile cleanly.  That state of affairs can't be left to stand.
>
> Best,
> Dominik
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/2 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) :
>
>
> Cyril Niklaus wrote:
>
>> Because that's how his name is spelled.  You have guttural, palatal,
>> retroflex and dental n in Devanāgarī, respectively ङ ṅa
>> ; ञ ña; ण ṇa and न na.
>
> Yes, but all "n" variants are normally the same size, modulo the diacritics.
>
Its not so uncommon that two fonts with the same design size have
different x-height. If your computer has to select one character from
a different font because it does not exist in your main font, such
discrepancies can be expected. At my computer ṅ appears lower. I do
not know where fonconfig takes it from, probably from the John Smith's
fonts.

>> The guttural na is transcribed using a superscript dot, but maybe you do
>> not have it in a standard font, and your MUA used whatever font was
>> available, therefore this extra height you're talking about.  I'm not sure
>> if I've correctly understood you, to be honest.
>
> Agreed : I have changed my font preferences for "Other languages"
> (odd way of having to tell it which font to use for UTF-8 !),
> and now all four n variants are the same height.
>
> Philip Taylor
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Polyglossia "broken"?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/2 Martin Schröder :
> 2011/10/2 Alan Munn :
>> Well I don't think Philipp has commit privileges, and CTAN isn't happy about 
>> random (even highly trusted) people uploading new versions of packages that 
>> are still officially maintained.
>
> Which seems to boil down to the original problem:
> polyglossia seems to need a new maintainer.
>
I wrote it some time ago, so I literally copy the relevant part of
François' letter:


The fundamental problem is that polyglossia is no longer actively
maintained (since over a year now). I have offered the package to
various able people (notably the guys working on the LuaLaTeX stuff)
but at the end nobody took it over. The source code is available at
github and everybody can clone it and make further changes. There is
no reason why a moderately simple LaTeX macro package distributed
under the LPPL should stay static for over a year... Unfortunately I
really have NO time at my disposal, and sadly enough, since I have
left academia I no longer have any use for anything TeX-related :(

I think time is ripe for another message on the XeTeX mailing list to
look for a new maintainer... In the meanwhile if you know someone who
might be interested, please tell me!


Since I do not know git and have no time to learn it, my suggestion
was to move it to subversion. Although I am busy, adding
\RequirePackage would be easy to me and the bug could be quickly
fixed. There are other things that could (should) be fixed. I can deal
with it since January next year when I am not so bus as now.

> Best
>   Martin
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] fontspec.sty- xelatex: GUI framework cannot be initialized.

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/3 Harish Kumar Holla :
> Hi All,
> Recently I tried to give a hand to XeLaTeX. But I am not able to compile
> with xelatex.. This is my file:
> ===
> \documentclass[11pt]{article}
> \usepackage{xltxtra}
> \setmainfont[Mapping=tex-text]{Arial}
> \begin{document}
> \section{Unicode support}
>
> \subsection{English}
> All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
>
>
> \end{document}
> ==
> When I compile with xelatax it says
>
> ===
> ("C:\Program Files\MiKTeX 2.9\tex\latex\fontspec\fontspec.sty"  xelatex: GUI
> framework cannot be initialized.
>
> Xelatex failed to create a pdf file.
> ===
>
> What may be wrong? Please help.
> I use winedt6 (15032011), in windows 7 Home premium (sp 1) and MikTeX 2.9.
> Any suggestions from experts will be appreciated
> --
This is really strange, your document works fine on my Linux with TeX
Live. It seems that something is wrong in your configuration. Some
error is triggered and xetex tries to open an editor so that you can
try to fix it. I would suggest to remove \usepackage and \setmainfont,
add \scrollmode and try what happens.

BTW: Arial is the ugliest font. I would suggest using TeX Gyre Hero or
similar high quality font.
>
>
>
> --with regards
>
> Dr. Harish Kumar
> Dept. of Physics
> Pondicherry Engineering College
> Puducherry 605 014
> Ph: 0413 2655281-286 (Extn: 646)
>
> Residence:
> Dr. Harish Kumar
> # 29 (New No.) I Main Cluny Road
> Avvai Nagar, Lawspet
> Puducherry 605 008
> Ph: 0413 2253652, 9443052957
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Polyglossia "broken"?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/3 Vafa Khalighi :
> I wrote an email to François Charette saying that I am happy to maintain
> both arabxetex and polyglossia.
>
That's a good news. I have noticed that your name in the documentation
is written in a wrong way. If I am not mistaken, the initial and final
form of YEH are dotless in Farsi and Urdu and whar is worse, if I read
it well, it is written Khaliqi in the manual.

> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Dominik Wujastyk  wrote:
>>
>> I'm very pleased to be able to say that Philipp Stephani has added the
>> required \RequirePackage statement to polyglossia.dtx and sent an update to
>> CTAN.  It should come down the pike soon.
>>
>> Thanks Philipp!  He notes, however, that this is just an emergency fix,
>> and that a new maintainer for polyglossia is needed.  Volunteers?
>>
>> Dominik
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Problems with xcolor and fontspec

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/3 Tobias Schoel :
> Try using tikz/pgf.
>
AFAIK tikz does not have its own color commands but uses xcolor, so
the problem would be exactly the same. And it would be a "shutting
ants by a cannon" solution to load such a huge package in order to
define a dozen macros.

> Am 03.10.2011 16:52, schrieb Stephen Moye:
>>
>> Xecolor provides none of the facilities that I need, most importantly,
>> access to the HSB color model. It is in no way a replacement for xcolor, but
>> simply provides a range of colors made accessible through fontspec's
>> \addfonfeature command.
>>
>> Sounded promising on the face of it. Thanks for the suggestion.
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2011, at 10:29 AM, Herbert Schulz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 3, 2011, at 8:57 AM, Stephen Moye wrote:
>>>
 The following minimum example shows the problem: I would like to
 generate some text in random colors and specify the opacity. In the example
 file below, either I get black text with opacity of 50%, or random colors 
 at
 100% opacity, or one random color for all the text at 50% opacity. Can I
 have my cake and eat it too? That is, can I have random colors *and* 
 control
 over the opacity?

 I'm using MacTeX 2011.

 Thanks for any insights.

 Stephen Moye

 %%=8><-%%

 % !TEX TS-program = XeLaTeX-xdv2pdf

 \documentclass{article}

 \input random
 \usepackage{xcolor}
 \usepackage{fontspec}

 \setmainfont{Helvetica}

 \newlength{\huedim}

 \newcommand{\randcolor}{%
        \setrandim\huedim{0.0pt}{1.0pt}%
        \definecolor{mycolor}{hsb}{\pointless\huedim,1.0,1.0}%
        \color{mycolor}
 }

 \newcommand{\testit}[3]{%
        %%% Uncomment *one* of the following \put commands to see the
 difference:
        %
        %%% This returns only gray:

  %\put(#1,#2){\randcolor\addfontfeature{Opacity=0.5}\color{mycolor}#3}
        %
        %%% This returns only the color first defined:

  %\put(#1,#2){\randcolor\addfontfeature{Color=mycolor,Opacity=0.5}\color{mycolor}#3}
        %
        %%% This works as it should, but the opacity is 100%
        %\put(#1,#2){\randcolor\color{mycolor}#3}
 }

 \begin{document}

 \begin{picture}(100,100)
 \testit{20}{100}{X}
 \testit{30}{90}{y}
 \testit{40}{80}{z}
 \end{picture}

 \end{document}
>>>
>>>
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> Don't know if this will help but try using the xecolor package. Note that
>>> it's commands have a different name than the xcolor package though.
>>>
>>> Good Luck,
>>>
>>> Herb Schulz
>>> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [XeTeX] Fwd: xindy style file for Sanskrit?

[Zdenek Wagner]

Yes, I have written an xdy file for Snaskrit but have not published it
yet. It has never been tested and may be buggy. I need someone who
will send me some word list for testing and some marked text and then
verify the result and help me to fix the rules if something is wrong.

2011/10/4 Dominik Wujastyk :
> A colleague of mine just posted the query below.  I have the same question.
>
> Best,
> Dominik
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Richard Hayes 
> Date: 4 October 2011 03:52
> Subject: [INDOLOGY] xindy style file for Sanskrit?
> To: indol...@liverpool.ac.uk
>
>
> Colleagues, I have a need to generate a Sanskrit index for a piece written
> in xeLaTeX, and am assuming at least one of you has already written an xdy
> style file for the xindy index generator that would sort the entries in
> Sanskrit dictionary order. I have looked for such a file in all the usual
> places without success. I am aware of Yasuhiro Okazaki's SktSortKey program
> and will use it if necessary, but I thought it might be worth asking whether
> a sanskrit.xdy file is out there somewhere.
>
> Richard Hayes
> Department of Philosophy
> University of New Mexico
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] fontspec.sty- xelatex: GUI framework cannot be initialized.

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/4 Harish Kumar Holla :
> Thanks to every one. Problem was with my miktex installation. I re installed
> the same and now XeLaTeX works fine. And it is great with full freedom with
> fonts. Neverthless I have a query with the experts.
> %=
>  It seems the xelatex will not accept figures in .pdf format. Also, there is
> mismatch in fonts of figures and rest of the document,  if I include figures

XeLaTeX works fine with figures in PDF. I remember a few years ago
there was a Mac specific bug in figure inclusion, all figures worked
in the Linux version but some of them did not work on Mac. The bug was
reported and fixed. There may be a MiKTeX specific bug. If you cannot
include a PDF using \includegraphics even in a simple document with
nothing else, send it to me. I will try in Linux in order to see what
is the problem. Of course, you cannot easily exchange the fonts that
are present in the PDF file (it can be done using commercial tools
such as InDesign or after dirty hackung). If I need the same font in
figures and in the text, I generate the figures without texts and then
add them in the picture environment. Tikz can also be used.

> as .png file. So I am planning to put .pgf/.tikz files directly as

Remember that PNG is a bitmap format. It is good for photos and other
halftone images but not for graphs, diagrams and text.

> \input{myfigure.tikz} . This is the trouble for me. I do not know how to
> control the dimensions of the figure in this case. If I use

\input is intended for inclusion of a TeX code, not for images.
However, if you put the \includegraphics command to an external file
and you wish to specify dimensions when including the file, you can
define the size parametrically. for instance, your file may contain

\includegraphics[width=\w]{something.pdf}

and when including the file, you will write

\def\w{.57\textwidth}
\input{somefile}

> 
> \begin{figure}[h]
> \centerline{\includegraphics[width=0.575\textwidth]{wavemechanics-fig/Figures/gammaraymicroscope.pdf}}
> \caption{$\gamma-$ ray microscope} \label{fig:gammaraymicroscope}
> \end{figure}
> 
> it is fine. But that won't do the job for \input{gammaraymicroscope.pgf}.
> 
> \begin{figure}[h]
> \centerline{\input{wavemechanics-fig/Figures/gammaraymicroscope.pdf}}
> \caption{$\gamma-$ ray microscope} \label{fig:gammaraymicroscope}
> \end{figure}
> 
> My question is:
> How to specify dimensions of the figure in this case. Please help me.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Odd hyphenations

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/5 Arthur Reutenauer :
>> Thanks.  I will try this and uncomment the \setotherlanguage{Sanskrit}.  That
>> way if there are any hyphenations in the Hindi verse, they will occur
>> correctly.  Am I correct in thinking this?
>
>  You've got it mostly right.  I was going to write a detailed and
> intricate answer, but it's actually simpler to just say: wait for me to
> fix the bug in Polyglossia, and you should be fine :-)  Until then,
> though, you need to make sure that any run of English text is preceded
> by the right settings of \left- and \righthyphenmin, otherwise bad
> things will happen -- as you've experienced.
>
>  You've got me confused on one point, though: is it Sanskrit or Hindi
> text you're typesetting?  Not that it makes such a difference; and in
> the latter case we don't have hyphenation patterns for transliterated
> Hindi anyway, so the Sanskrit ones should do a reasonable job.
>
At least delmonico.pdf is Sanskrit. It seems to me as a part of Bhagavadgita.

>        Arthur
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] footnotes and ArabXeTeX

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/5 Nathan Sidoli :
> Here is one for Vafa in your new capacity as maintainer of ArabXeTeX. Thanks
> for taking over this package! (I sent this to François some time ago, but I
> don't think anything has been done about it.)
>
> In certain environments, there is some problem with the input which is
> controlled by ascii 'operators' such as ^ and _ and maybe some others. For
> example, ش is input as ^s, ذ is input as _d, and so on. The letters that are
> input using . seem to be unaffected.
>
This is a problem of \catcode. Apparently \textarab changes \catcode
of ^ and _ to 12. However, \footnote (as well as other macros) read
the whole argument and when \textarab starts to play its role, it is
too late and \catcode of ^ and _ is already set. I do not know how to
solve this problem without breaking math in \footnote, some dirty
trick will be needed.

> The effect occurs in a number of environments, such as footnotes and
> pstricks figures (it doesn't occur TikZ, and this is good, but many people
> have legacy figures in pstricks). In these environments, the operators seem
> to be treated as some sort of mathematical operator and the compiler
> complains that a $ is missing and the file will not compile.
>
> I have included a couple of minimal files, below.
>
> --
>
> \documentclass{article}
>
> \usepackage{fontspec}
> \setmainfont[Mapping=tex-text]{Junicode}
> \usepackage[novoc,fdf2noalif]{arabxetex}
> \newfontfamily\arabicfont[Script=Arabic,Scale=1.3,WordSpace=2]{Scheherazade}
>
> \begin{document}
>
> We have a footnote that contains the word
> \textarab{al-^skl}.\footnote{\textarab{al-^skl}.}
> It is the \^\ \ in the asci input of \textarab{^s} that causes the problem.
> It seems that it is being read as an operator in an uncalled math
> environment.
>
> This is also true of \_ in, used in, say,
> \textarab{_d}.\footnote{textarab{_d}.}
>
> And maybe some of the other operators, but the . works fine, as in
> \textarab{.z}.\footnote{\textarab{.z}.}
>
> \end{document}
>
> 
>
> \documentclass{article}
>
> \usepackage{pstricks}
> \usepackage{pst-eps}
>
> \usepackage{fontspec}
> \setmainfont[Mapping=tex-text]{Junicode}
> \usepackage[novoc,fdf2noalif]{arabxetex}
> \newfontfamily\arabicfont[Script=Arabic,Scale=1.3,WordSpace=2]{Scheherazade}
>
> \newcommand{\A}{\textarab}
>
> \begin{document}
>
> \begin{center}
> \begin{pspicture}(0,0)(3,3)
> \psline[linewidth=1pt](0,0)(0,3) %base
> \psline[linewidth=1pt](0,0)(3,0) %2e base
> \psline[linewidth=1pt](0,3)(3,3) %3e base
> \psline[linewidth=1pt](3,0)(3,3) %oblique 1
> \psline[linewidth=1pt](0,3)(3,0) %oblique 1
> \rput(1.5,2.4){\A{mA'iT}}
> \rput(1.5,3.278){\A{`^srT}}
> \rput*[0,0]{-45}(0.23,1.74){\A{j_dr mA'ityn}}
> \rput*[0,0]{-90}(3.125,2.1){}
> \rput*[0,0]{-90}(-0.7,2.1){}
> \rput(1.5,-0.275){}
> \end{pspicture}
> \end{center}
>
> \end{document}
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] footnotes and ArabXeTeX

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/5 Philip TAYLOR :
>
>
> Zdenek Wagner wrote:
>
>> This is a problem of \catcode. Apparently \textarab changes \catcode
>> of ^ and _ to 12. However, \footnote (as well as other macros) read
>> the whole argument and when \textarab starts to play its role, it is
>> too late and \catcode of ^ and _ is already set. I do not know how to
>> solve this problem without breaking math in \footnote, some dirty
>> trick will be needed.
>
> To re-catcode a TeX sequence known to contain (e.g.) ^12 :
>
> Pass the sequence + \sentinel to a macro with parameter structure
>
>        #1^12#2\sentinel
>
>
> Yield as expansion #1^#2, where ^ has its normal catcode.
>
Generally, \footnote may contain both math, where ^ and _ must have
their catcodes as written in the TeXbook, and \textarab, where the
catcodes of ^ and _ have to be changed. there may be several
occurences of \textarab (\texturdu, \textpersian) in a \footnote and
several occurences of ^ and _ in \textarab. I am not sure whether math
can appear inside \textarab. Thus the solution would not be that
simple.

> Philip Taylor
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Installing Linux Libertine from TeXLive on Debian

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/8 Le Farfadet Spatial :
>
> Hello everybody out there!
>
> On 06/10/2011 23:29, Pander wrote:
>>
>> On 2011-10-06 23:25, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't run fc-cache on the doc(uments) tree but the fonts tree!
>>> (/usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/fonts)
>>
>> It can also differ to run
>>   fc-cache -f
>> and
>>   sudo fc-cache -f
>> so I'd recommend to run both
>
> I went in the directory, and have run both commands. None of them has given
> any output, but I still get the error with Linux Libertine.
>
No need to go to a specific directory, fontconfig knows where the
fonts are. Did you follow the post-install actions (RTFM)? It among
others installs the TL fonts.

>    Best regards.
>
>                                                    Yoann
>
> --
> L'antre du farfadet :
> http://le.farfadet.spatial.free.fr/
> Textes, musiques et peintures
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Missing char, missing footnote

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/11 Tobias Schoel :
>
>
> Am 11.10.2011 21:20, schrieb Karljurgen Feuerherm:
>>
>> Hello Ross,
>>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at  3:15 PM, in message
>>
 (2) The footnote has vanished. I suppose that means footnotes aren't
>>
>> legal
>>>
>>> in tables of this type... Can someone suggest a solution to this?
>>>
>>> The footnote occurs within a floating table. Which page should it go
>>
>> onto?
>>>
>>> Put the {tabular} into a {minipage}, then the footnote will be tied
>>
>> to that.
>>
>> Ok--will try that.
>>
>>> Also, why declare the {table} inside the {enumerate} list, when you
>>
>> know
>>>
>>> that it will float to elsewhere? It probably works OK, but it makes
>>
>> your
>>>
>>> LaTeX source harder to read and thus complicates any later editing
>>
>> that you
>>>
>>> may need to do.
>>
>> Well--ideally I don't really want it to float, I want it *right there*.
>> I'm still learning the finer points of these things, but I see your
>> point :)
>
> If you don't want it to float, don't use a floating environment like
> \begin{table}. Just leave it out. (And think twice about centering the
> tabular.)
>
Without floating environment \caption will not work. There are tricks
how to do it but imagine what happens if there is no space for the
whole table on the page. You will have to invent some additional text
above the itemization list in order to put a few items and the table
to the next page. Just one item plus the table would look very ugly.
Do you really want to do that? I would rather think a bit more about
the document structure.

> ciao
>
> Toscho
>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> K
>>
>>
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Re: [XeTeX] Runaway argument issues

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/12 Herbert Schulz :
>
> On Oct 11, 2011, at 4:54 PM, Chris Travers wrote:
>
>> Here is a minimal sample to reproduce the problem:
>>
>> \documentclass{article}
>> \usepackage{longtable}
>> \begin{document}
>>
>> \begin{longtable}{ll}
>>
>>   \textbf{Número}
>>  & \textbf{Descripción}
>> \endhead
>> \end{longtable}
>>
>> \end{document}
>>
>>
>> When I run this with xelatex, I get:
>>
>> Runaway argument?
>> {Descripci�� \endhead \end {longtable} \par \end {document} \par
>> ! File ended while scanning use of \textbf .
>>
>> Now, if I replace the ó with \'o, that part works fine (but then why
>> would I be using xelatex?) but the Número ends up displaying as N.
>>
>> As far as I can tell the problem is with handling of multibyte
>> characters.  Removing the \textbf{} from around the problem phrase
>> ends up having it rendered as Descripciendhead, suggesting several
>> more bytes are being assumed to be part of the character than actually
>> are.
>>
>> Best Wishes,
>> Chris Travers
>
>
> Howdy,
>
> 1)Did you save the file as UTF-8 Unicode?
>
> 2)What you have will use Computer Modern which doesn't have the accented 
> characters as single glyphs so it doesn't know how to handle them. To use 
> Latin Modern by default add
>
> \usepackage{fontspec}
>
Moreover, without fontspec the definition of \textbf is different, I
have tried by \tracingall. Anyway, it compiled without "runaway
argument" at my computer.

> in the preamble and, if you want to use a system font (e.g., Linux Libertine) 
> ad the line
>
> \setmainfont{Linux Libertine}
>
> in the preamble after the fontspec load.
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Herb Schulz
> (herbs at wideopenwest dot com)
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Runaway argument issues

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/12 Chris Travers :
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Peter Dyballa  wrote:
>>
>> Am 12.10.2011 um 00:10 schrieb Chris Travers:
>>
>>> texlive-xetex-2007-51.fc13.i686
>>
>> Now that the 2011 is almost finished you could consider updating to TeX Live 
>> 2011...
>>
> Less of an option when trying to support applications I write on
> long-term support distros like RHEL, Ubuntu LTS, and Debian..
>
I understand your demand for stability but sticking to some distros
need not be the best solution. For instance. RHEL 4.x always
distributed buggy ghostscript although the bug (reported by me) was
fixed years ago. The RHEL people prefer preserving the bug to
upgrading gs from 7.x to 8.x. It was upgraded in RHEL 5.0.

> Best Wishes,
> Chris Travers
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Missing char, missing footnote

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/12 Tobias Schoel :
> Am 11.10.2011 23:19, schrieb Zdenek Wagner:
>>
>> 2011/10/11 Tobias Schoel:
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 11.10.2011 21:20, schrieb Karljurgen Feuerherm:
>>>>
>>>> Hello Ross,
>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at  3:15 PM, in message
>>>>
>>>>>> (2) The footnote has vanished. I suppose that means footnotes aren't
>>>>
>>>> legal
>>>>>
>>>>> in tables of this type... Can someone suggest a solution to this?
>>>>>
>>>>> The footnote occurs within a floating table. Which page should it go
>>>>
>>>> onto?
>>>>>
>>>>> Put the {tabular} into a {minipage}, then the footnote will be tied
>>>>
>>>> to that.
>>>>
>>>> Ok--will try that.
>>>>
>>>>> Also, why declare the {table} inside the {enumerate} list, when you
>>>>
>>>> know
>>>>>
>>>>> that it will float to elsewhere? It probably works OK, but it makes
>>>>
>>>> your
>>>>>
>>>>> LaTeX source harder to read and thus complicates any later editing
>>>>
>>>> that you
>>>>>
>>>>> may need to do.
>>>>
>>>> Well--ideally I don't really want it to float, I want it *right there*.
>>>> I'm still learning the finer points of these things, but I see your
>>>> point :)
>>>
>>> If you don't want it to float, don't use a floating environment like
>>> \begin{table}. Just leave it out. (And think twice about centering the
>>> tabular.)
>>>
>> Without floating environment \caption will not work. There are tricks
>> how to do it but imagine what happens if there is no space for the
>> whole table on the page. You will have to invent some additional text
>> above the itemization list in order to put a few items and the table
>> to the next page. Just one item plus the table would look very ugly.
>> Do you really want to do that? I would rather think a bit more about
>> the document structure.
>
> I don't know, what functionality of captions you need. For only text below
> (or above) the tabular, there are simple methods such as multicolumn or a
> surrounding tabular or a minipage / parbox.
>
> For more specific functionality you should really think about what the
> purpose and structure of this table in this document are. Maybe, letting it
> flow is better suited.
>
The purpose of \caption is not only to typeset the caption but also
display the number, add the caption to the list of tables (figures)
and allow for cross references. It is defined in the floating
environments only. If you want to have this functionality outside
floating environments, you must cheat LaTeX. Vafa wrote the solution.

> Generally speaking: before forcing LaTeX to do something, it doesn't
> naturally support, think about adapting to LaTeX's way.
>
>
>>
>>> ciao
>>>
>>> Toscho
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> K
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Always bold math

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/12 Tobias Schoel :
> Hi,
>
> is there a convenient way to tell XeLaTeX to print all math in bold. May be
> a fontspec or unicode-math option or command?
>
> Or a LaTeX-command? \boldmath doesn't work.
>
Do you have \boldmath outside math? This works for me, compare the
output of both equations:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\begin{document}
$$\pi r^2 / 4$$

\boldmath
$$\pi r^2 / 4$$
\end{document}


> Thanks
>
> Toscho
> --
> Tobias Schoel
> Europaschule Kairo
> www.europaschulekairo.com
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] ascii to unicode map for Hebrew

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/17 Ulrike Fischer :
> Am Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:09:20 +0800 schrieb Ross Moore:
>
>>> I am editing a book of collected papers from a number of
>>> different authors, and I have a paper that is originally in
>>> LaTeX with some Hebrew, which is input in ascii.
>
>> What exactly do you mean by "input in ascii"?
>
>
> He means something like the asciitogreek.map described here:
>
> http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/30829/how-to-insert-greek-with-ascii-keyboard-and-xetex-polyglossia
>
> (And I'm quite confident that something similar is possible with
> hebrew, one only need to know the input rules.)
>
An easy way is to define a TECkit map. Such maps for Devanagari are
available in xetex-devanagari package, very elaborate solution for
Arabic scripts is in ArabXeTeX. It should be quite easy to prepare
such a map for Hebrew.
> --
> Ulrike Fischer
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] traditional to simplified Chinese character conversion utility or data base

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/17 Daniel Greenhoe :
> I know that this is not really the right mailing list for this
> question, but I have so far not found the answer by any other means
> ...
>
> I would like to find or write some a utility that would take an
> unicode encoded file and map Chinese traditional characters to
> simplified, while leaving all other code points (such  as those in the
> Latin and IPA code spaces) untouched. For example, the traditional
> character for horse (馬) is at unicode U+99AC, the simplified one (马)
> is at unicode U+9A6C, and the Latin character for "A" is at U+0041. So
> I want a utility that would change the 99AC to 9A6C, but leave the
> 0041 unchanged.
>
If it is really that simple 1:1 mapping, you can just use tr, it does
exactly that if you supply the map. If you wish to do it on the fly in
XeTeX, you can write a TECkit map. Having the TECkit map you can also
run txtconv from the command line.

> Does anyone know of such a utility? Does anyone know of any data base
> with a traditional to simplified character mapping such that I could
> maybe write the utility myself?
>
> Many thanks in advance,
> Dan
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to manually create the xelatex.fmt?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/18 Chris Travers :
> Hi all;
> I need to generate the xelatex.fmt file.  Apparently Fedora doesn't create
> these files.  It is not a new issue, I have had issues with the latex.fmt
> files not created in the past.
> Is there any way to manually create this file?

Certainly there is but it would rather be a question for Fedora forum.
Although I use Fedora myself, I do not use its TeX but I install TeX
Live. That's why I do not know how it is packaged in Fedora. Does
Fedora contain fmtutil and fmtutil-sys?

> Best Wishes,
> Chris Travers
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to manually create the xelatex.fmt?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/19 Ulrike Fischer :
> Am Tue, 18 Oct 2011 07:39:06 -0700 schrieb Chris Travers:
>
>>> So the limit is five years (but only for the latex kernel).
>>> The version date of my (current) latex.ltx ist
>>> \edef\fmtversion{2011/06/27}
>
 Or is XeTeX not intended to be used in these environments?
>
>>> I would say that if your latex is more than five years old, your
>>> xetex binaries and packages aren't up-to-date either. And as xetex
>>> is rather young this can be quite a problem. Regardless if you want
>>> to ship out only xetex documents or xetex documents + binaries: You
>>> should be aware that other people can have up-to-date systems and so
>>> you should make tests on such systems too (and just in case you
>>> don't know:  you can't use a fmt generated by one xetex version with
>>> another xetex version).
>
>> Of course.  I don't expect .fmt files to be portable.  What is helpful
>> is to know how to resolve the issue so I can put a faq entry in and
>> direct people to it when they ask on the mailing list.  (And if they
>> can't get it, charge for support.)  I believe I have gotten that, so I
>> am satisfied with the resolution.
>>
>> However, so that there are no misunderstandings   The issue here
>> is being forced to choose between supporting XeTeX on many platforms
>> and being able to support the platform's package manager.  I don't see
>> anyone here suggesting a way around that.  For developers distributing
>> software, that's kind of an issue.
>
> The problem is that there seems to a mounting number on Linux users
> which are reluctant to install software without using there package
> manager. And there seems to be a mounting number of  maintainers of
> linux distros (there just was a quite heated discussion in d.c.t.t.)
> which enforce this reluctance by telling people that they set their
> system at risk if they install e.g. a new TeXLive without using the
> disto package manager.
>
> On the other side the linux distros seems to be either unwilling or
> unable to update the packages they support. Your list is quite
> impressing in this respect:
>
>
>> Debian Lenny:  TexLive 2007
>> Debian Squeeze:  TexLive 2009
>> Debian Sid:  TexLive 2009
>> Ubuntu 10.04 LTS:  TexLive 2009
>> Red Hat Enterprise 6:  TexLive 2007
>> That means that the most recent versions of CentOS and Scientific
>> Linux also use 2007.
>
> This is all (partly horribly) outdated. The current TeXLive version
> is 2011 and they are currently working on 2012.
>
> As the maintainer of the KOMA-packages pointed out this makes
> support rather difficult: He constantly gets reports about bugs
> which have been resolved years ago.
>
> What would you think of a linux distro which would force you to use
> a virus protection software with signature files five years old?
>
This is not only a question of TeX. Years ago I found and reported a
bug in Ghostscript. This bug was triggered mainly by the PS files
created by dvips. The bug was quickly fixed yet RHEL based distros for
a few more years distributed that old buggy version.

The problem with old TeX distro is apparent if I receive a document
prepared originally by MiKTeX. MiKTeX is updated regularly and if it
makes use of a rapidly evolving package as TikZ, it cannot be
processed by an old TeX. TL 2009 is definitely outdated and unusable
for such documents. TeX Live 2010 is still quite new and can be used
for most tasks. For serious work with colleagues using other platforms
up-to-date TeX Live is important.
>
>
>> However, the software project has contributors on both TexLive 2007
>> and 2009, and so our coverage in terms of testing is pretty good
>> there.
>
> 2009 is outdated. As you could see from the answers here quite a lot
> people did install texlive 2011.
>
>
> --
> Ulrike Fischer
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to manually create the xelatex.fmt?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/19 Chris Travers :
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:45 AM, Ulrike Fischer  wrote:
>
>> Well I'm a windows user so actually I'm not really affected. But
>> imho the linux distros should rethink their installation methods and
>> installation advices. It is absurd that 10 or more distros invest a
>> lot of main power in making packages when they lack the main power
>> to keep them up-to-date.
>
> Actually, for being a long-term support distro, Debian (using TexLive
> 2009) is about as up to date as you will find.
>
> Here's the reason for this.  You may not agree with it but for those
> of us who do server programming it makes a *tremendous* amount of
> sense on the server side.
>
> The basic thing is that servers generally require stability because an
> introduced bug can affect large numbers of users simultaneously.
> Consequently, the way Debian does this is by running unstable
> versions, that graduate to testing version, which graduate to stable
> versions, often over a period of a couple several years.  This gives
> early adopters an opportunity to shake out issues, and then by the
> time folks are deploying critical servers, the issues, limitations,
> etc. are well known, tested and documented, and they're not going to
> introduce new bugs by upgrading out from under the applications.  This
> is important in this environment.
>
> Long term support distros (Ubuntu LTS, RHEL, Debian) tend to backport
> fixes for critical bugs to earlier versions where required so the
> software is still supported.  This is one reason why which distro of
> TexLive is being used can be misleading.  One doesn't really know
> what's been backported or not.
>
> This matches my needs very well.  If my clients are running accounting
> systems, the last thing I want is an upgrade of TexLive to break their
> ability to generate invoices.  If there are bugs in older versions, I
> can work around those bugs, but the problem of getting a document that
> will only render with one version or another is not acceptable to my
> application.  Consequently I stick with older, solid packages, avoid
> cutting edge ones (exception currently being XeTeX for a subset of
> users, and that's only due to issues of i18n in the invoice templates,
> which generally causes pdflatex to croak).
>
I need stability and I cannot affoard if TL upgrade breaks my
documents. That's why I use as few packages as possible. I write my
own macros, my own packages. I will guarantee that eg zwpagelayout
will always be backward compatible (otherwise my documents will cease
to work) but due to conflicts with some packages I will soon released
and improved version that will need at least TL2008. XeTeX depends on
the platform fonts. Once I cooperated with a man working on Mac. The
document was written in XeLaTeX and used DejaVu fonts. Mac had a
different version of DejaVu fonts and the result was that the document
was one page shorter on Linux than on Mac. Thus you may have different
results on different Linux distros.

> So this is where I am coming from.  I am happy with workarounds.  Not
> happy with "you must upgrade every couple years."  Upgrades must,
> under no circumstances, break the accounting software, and if that
> means many bugs go unfixed, that's what that means.  Generally
> speaking that means that bugs get fixed only if the maintainers
> conclude that the fix is backwards compatible, and that the bugfix is
> sufficiently non-intrusive that the chance of introducing new problems
> is minimal.  I have already heard that this is anything but the policy
> of Texlive (which has other advantages, but not for the environments I
> work in).
>
TeX Live packages what is available on CTAN. Anyway, if you need a
stable version of a package no matter whether in is upgraded on TL or
not, you can install it in another directory (not known to TL) and you
accounting SW can set TEXINPUT so that TeX running from it will first
look there and then to the TL tree. That's what I do in my accounting
SW.

> As a Windows user, I suspect you are thinking of desktop needs.
> That's fine.  A lot of people use the Tex stuff as essentially desktop
> publishing.  But there are others of us who build fairly critical
> systems using this and we have greatly increased needs for stability.
> It's one thing if a magazine, a school paper, or a book won't render
> because of an upgrade.  It's a very different thing when a weekly
> batch of checks you promised your clients would be mailed out *that
> day* fails at 1pm in the afternoon because something changed in one of
> the Tex packages you use to generate the checks and now someone has to
> fix it in time to mail them out.  The way you guarantee that is by
> making sure it works and not touching the underlying dependencies
> unless you absolutely must.  The fact that they are outdated makes no
> difference.
>
The solution is to use as few packages as possible and make your own
copies of important packages if you are afraid that an upgra

Re: [XeTeX] How to manually create the xelatex.fmt?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/19 Chris Travers :
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Ulrike Fischer  wrote:
>> Am Wed, 19 Oct 2011 05:59:16 -0700 schrieb Chris Travers:
>>
>>> This matches my needs very well.  If my clients are running accounting
>>> systems, the last thing I want is an upgrade of TexLive to break their
>>> ability to generate invoices.
>>
>> Normally you get more problems if you can't update ;-)
>
> You get more problems with things suddenly and unexpectedly breaking
> if you don't change them?  On what theory?
>
> At least if you don't include deliberate breakage of programs over a
> certain age..
>
>>
>>> If there are bugs in older versions, I can work around those bugs,
>>> but the problem of getting a document that will only render with
>>> one version or another is not acceptable to my application.
>>
>> Then you shouldn't rely on an external TeXLive installation. You
>> have absolutly no control on the status of the TeXLive installations
>> of your users. You don't know if the fedora user installed the
>> fedora-TeXLive or the newest shapshot from the svn.
>>
>> You also have no control about the package versions installed by the
>> users. fontspec e.g. can be an old version, the current version on
>> CTAN or the unstable version from Github.
>
> I think you may misunderstand how this works.
>
> We have some (relatively basic) demo templates.  They are tested on
> TeXLive 2007 and 2009 at present and known to render properly.  They
> don't use a whole lot of packages (I think mostly longtable, geometry,
> and a few others).  These are designed to give people a sense of what
> they can do but not necessarily provide exactly what they need.
>
> The client then can contract with me or others to write templates in
> the environment of their choice.  That may be TeTeX (RHEL 5), TexLive
> 2007 (RHEL 6 and friends), TexLive (Debian Stable and friends), it
> could be a shiney new TexLive.  It could be MikTeX.  It could be
> whatever.  These documents are then tested on these environments and
> verified to work reliably and predictably.
>
> The software then plugs text into the templates and runs them.  These
> then run reliably as long as nothing changes.
>
> If someone is going to upgrade TexLive, the templates have to be
> tested again, against the new version.  That usually means a staging
> server is updated first, the templates tested, and then the update
> rolled out to production when it is verified not to cause problems.
> This is a very slow, deliberate process, as it should be.
>
I have documents as old as 18 years that still render almost without
problems. The problem is that they rely on proprietary fonts and emTeX
in OS/2 required them in a different directory than TL in TeX Live. It
even does not matter that the documents are prepared in CP852 and now
my locale is UTF-8, I can still work in CP852. It's because the
documents rely on my own macros and packages that are backward
compatible.

> Best Wishes,
> Chris Travers
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to manually create the xelatex.fmt?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/19 Arthur Reutenauer :
>> Hm. I don't understand how this can be a general usable work-around.
>> What actually is the "appropriate" directory here? Do you have a
>> newer/local version of latex.ltx in this directory?
>
>  Actually, if you look at a latex.ltx that has that check (the one from
> stock TeX Live 2011 still has code for the "expiry date", for example),
> you can see that all LaTeX does is to issue an \errmessage, which you
> can simply ignore when running xetex -ini in interactive mode; the
> format will still be built.  However, fmtutil aborts by default on
> error, if memory serves.  Hence, it may be that Chris did actually see
> the error and simply typed Enter; or maybe it's something else, but
> clearly there's more to it than the two-line instructions he sent.
>
Or you can make file "xelatex.my" containing
\batchmode
\input xelatex.ini

Then create the format from this file.

>  For the record, the relevant bits from the LaTeX kernel are:
>
>        \edef\fmtversion{2011/06/27}
>        \iffalse
>        \def\reserved@a#1/#2/#3\@nil{%
>          \count@\year
>          \advance\count@-#1\relax
>          \multiply\count@ by 12\relax
>          \advance\count@\month
>          \advance\count@-#2\relax}
>        \expandafter\reserved@a\fmtversion\@nil
>        \ifnum\count@>65
>          \typeout{^^J%
>        !!^^J%
>        !  You are attempting to make a LaTeX format from a source file^^J%
>        !  That is more than five years old.^^J%
>        !^^J%
>        !  If you enter  to scroll past this message then the 
> format^^J%
>        !  will be built, but please consider obtaining newer source files^^J%
>        !  before continuing to build LaTeX.^^J%
>        !!^^J%
>        }
>           \errhelp{To avoid this error message, obtain new LaTeX sources.}
>           \errmessage{LaTeX source files more than 5 years old!}
>        \fi
>        \let\reserved@a\relax
>        \fi
>
>  As you can see, the check is surrounded by \iffalse ... \fi and is
> hence never actually run.
>
>        Arthur
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to manually create the xelatex.fmt?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/20 Petr Tomasek :
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 03:14:56PM +0200, Ulrike Fischer wrote:
>> Am Tue, 18 Oct 2011 05:43:57 -0700 schrieb Chris Travers:
>>
>> > This has all been very helpful.  At least I have things narrowed down
>> > a bit here:
>> >
>> >
>> > # fmtutil-sys --byfmt xelatex
>> >
>>
>> > ! LaTeX source files more than 5 years old!.
>> > l.545 ...aTeX source files more than 5 years old!}
>>
>> >
>> > Any idea of what I do about this?
>>
>> The best is to get and install a new TeXLive 2011 with newer latex
>> sources. You can also try to fool latex by changing your pc date.
>
> No, it is actually the worst thing to do. Most Linux distributions have their
> own packaging system and using alien blob (like the TeXLive) has all
> the disadvantages it can: possbily breaking compatibility if some system
> library is updated, not upgrading this blob using system tools if
> securty vulnerabilities are found can lead to serious security problems, 
> etc...
>
That's why TL is linked statically with the exception of tools
dependent on fontconfig (xetex, luatex, xdvipdfmx).

> That's why I always compiled XeTeX from the SVN, but even that is broken since
> about 2 years :-/
>
I have only a problem with Nafees fonts, xdvipdfmx cannot find them in
CentOS 4 and 5 while everything works fine in Fedora 13. I tried with
TL 2008, 2009, 20010 and 2011, the result is the same and even
Khaled's advices did not help me to make it work.

> P.T.
>
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>
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>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to manually create the xelatex.fmt?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/20 Petr Tomasek :
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 05:16:12PM +0200, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>>
>> Am 18.10.2011 um 16:39 schrieb Chris Travers:
>>
>> > Here's a breakdown of OS support for TexLive versions for anyone 
>> > interested:
>> >
>> > Debian Lenny:  TexLive 2007
>> > Debian Squeeze:  TexLive 2009
>> > Debian Sid:  TexLive 2009
>> > Ubuntu 10.04 LTS:  TexLive 2009
>> > Red Hat Enterprise 6:  TexLive 2007
>> > That means that the most recent versions of CentOS and Scientific
>> > Linux also use 2007.
>>
>> Forget these RPM or DEB based re-packings! (The support from their 
>> distributors/repackagers can be a bit less than optimal.) Install TeX Live 
>> 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011!
>
> This is the best way to hell. Native packages should be used and not some
> stupid external blob!
>
It would be a good way if the native packages were up-to-date and if
they allowed me to install not only the current version but even older
versions. As a matter of fact, I first verify that everything works
and after that I switch PATH. Twice I needed to test a document with
an old TL because I found that it does not work with the current
version. This is the greatest benefit of TL. I know what I am writing.
It happend several times that the native package of Octave included an
incompatible change. Two such upgrades were so nasty that each of them
forced me to spend two weeks of work just to make my code running.

> P.T.
>
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> Jabber: but...@jabbim.cz
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to manually create the xelatex.fmt?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/20 Chris Travers :
> 2011/10/20 Zdenek Wagner :
>
>> It would be a good way if the native packages were up-to-date and if
>> they allowed me to install not only the current version but even older
>> versions. As a matter of fact, I first verify that everything works
>> and after that I switch PATH. Twice I needed to test a document with
>> an old TL because I found that it does not work with the current
>> version. This is the greatest benefit of TL. I know what I am writing.
>> It happend several times that the native package of Octave included an
>> incompatible change. Two such upgrades were so nasty that each of them
>> forced me to spend two weeks of work just to make my code running.
>>
>
> BTW, that's *exactly* why you don't want to update existing important
> systems once they are shown to be working without extensive testing
> and staging, and why staying on older versions for working systems
> that automatically generate documents is usually the wise course of
> action.
>
There are two big reasons for update:

1. The new hardware is not supported by the old Linux distro

2. The necessary SW is not available as a package for the old distro
and cannot be compiled from SourceForge sources because glibc in the
distro is obsolete

Of course, I never update anything in a middle of an important task.
That's why I still have CentOS 4 on one of my computers.

> Best Wishes,
> Chris Travers
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to manually create the xelatex.fmt?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/20 Chris Travers :
> The general point is that where one is doing server-side document
> generation, there are sufficient reasons *not* to use external binary
> blobs with it's own package manager that doesn't talk to or integrate
> with anything else, which has a short support cycle, and which is
> statically linked to all its dependencies.
>
> Use of distro packages may not be perfect, but the only two options
> are that or compiling from source, realistically.
>
I have server side applications based on TL. I use them from time to
time (none of them is currently active). The remote user cannot write
the document, it is always prepared by some SW tool (PHP, XSLT, ...).
And \write18 is disabled for such applications. On the other hand,
there are servers providing TL and users can type their documents
directly, see http://tex.mendelu.cz/ for instance.

If the current version of TL is 2011 but the native packaged version
in a Linux distro is 2007, are you sure that there are not bugs and
security holes? Do you know how \write18 is handled? Are you sure that
they do not allow \input /etc/passwd and \input /etc/shadow? It is
disabled by me in my TL based server side applications.

> Best Wishes,
> Chris Travers
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to manually create the xelatex.fmt?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/20 Chris Travers :
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 6:16 AM, Ulrike Fischer  wrote:
>> Am Thu, 20 Oct 2011 13:32:00 +0200 schrieb Susan Dittmar:
>>
>>> Helping users with the day-to-day administrational
>>> work was the main reason why linux distributions have been invented.
>>
>> Well this may have been the reason. And this is also the reason why
>> package managers like the one from miktex has been invented (and I
>> like the ease with which I can install packages today.)
>
> Package managers have their roles to play.  They are important for
> some users, less so for others.
>>
Package managers are important. A few years ago I was accutomed to
compiling SW from sources. It is easy for simple programs. However,
try to compile a complex program as eg Gnome Subtitles. It is a very
hard task. That's why I like package managers because I need not
bother with complex dependencies. Or to be not so extremistic, perl-tk
from CPAN does not work on RHEL distros because it is too new. You
have to install older version of perl-tk by yum which works fine. It
is quite normal in RHEL distros that there are additional repositories
(EPEL, rpmfusion, ...). So why should we be fierced by TeX Live as
another external system?

>> But looking at the discussion here *now* package managers in Linux
>> distros are meant to prevent users to do fatal damage to their
>> system, to avoid dramatic security problems, to avert chaos. They
>> are no longer mainly a help, they are a mean of control.
>
> And in some environments that is a win.   But keep in mind that none
> of these package managers are synonymous with repositories.  I
> understand there are TexLive 2011 repos for my distro of Fedora but I
> can't develop on them because those are not available for RHEL 6.   I
> don't know anyone who sticks with only the stock repositories.
>
> However, when a piece of software also may handle credit card data
> (which LedgerSMB sometimes does), the rules change very quickly.  The
> credit card industry makes certain demands in exchange for the
> privilege to process cards, and one of these is to stick with software
> which gets security fixes from a vendor, and to stay current with all
> security updates.  Saying that one should just install a new TexLive
> distro every year might not even meet those demands, esp. when
> everything is statically linked.
>
>>
>> It looks as if windows and linux have changed their roles:
>> Long time windows users were the ones which were supposed to be so
>> dump that they could only use applications which could be installed
>> by simple click on a setup.exe and who must be protected from more
>> complicated tasks. And everybody feared that windows would gain to
>> much control over the applications installed on the user pc
>> (microsoft got attacked when it dared to bundle a user application
>> like the internet explorer with the OS). But now it looks as if the
>> users of the so-called "open and free" OS Linux are tying themselves
>> to their disto manufacturer and their installation tools in a way no
>> windows user has ever been tyed to a windows OS.
>
> You know, above, I think I said that there are only two really
> acceptable ways to install lInux software:
> 1)  Via the distro's package manager (whether from the distro's repo,
> from a third party repo, or third party download) or
> 2)  Compiling from source.
>
> There are a lot of times when #2 makes more sense.  However it makes
> PCI-DSS compliance quite a bit harder and more burdensome.
>
> Best Wishes,
> Chris Travers
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to manually create the xelatex.fmt?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/20 Petr Tomasek :
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 04:24:47PM +0200, Peter Dyballa wrote:
>>
>> Am 20.10.2011 um 16:12 schrieb Chris Travers:
>>
>> > Not disturbing other dependencies that production software depends on.
>>
>> It can't. It does not carry shared libraries, DLLs, or such, that make 
>> ld_config or such go mad. TeX Live is like the universe: it's 
>> self-contained. And expanding...
>
> And that's exactly what's wrong and what needs to be changed...
>
If expansion is wrong that all SW is wrong. But seriously, I remember
situation when documents that compiled on MiKTeX in Windows and on
emTeX in OS/2 did not compile on teTeX in Linux because a lot of
packages were missing. A Linux user was forced to download them from
CTAN and install. There was no update mechanism, users were force to
follow ctan-ann and install new versions themselves. The situation has
not improved much. TeX documents are said to compile on any platform
but it is not true. You can compile documents on Windows, on Mac, on
OS/2 but if you stick with TeX from a Linux distro, you may have
problems that packages will be missing or obsolete or buggy and not
fixed although the new version was released years ago. If RHEL user
reports me that my package does not work with natbib, what should I
advice? It was fixed in 2008 but he uses an obsolete version. TeX Live
offers a stable multiplatform solution. I would not believe that in
each distro they develop their own kernel, their own HW drivers, their
own GTK, their own TCP/IP stack, their own web browsers. I have never
heard of Debian/Mozilla, Fedora/Mozilla, Mandriva/Mozilla etc. So why
linux distros cannot incorporate TeX Live? Why everybody wants to
repeat the job his/her own way but terribly delayed?

I know it should be reported on the distros bugzillas, not here...

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Re: [XeTeX] How to manually create the xelatex.fmt?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/20 Petr Tomasek :
>> ...
>> offers a stable multiplatform solution. I would not believe that in
>> each distro they develop their own kernel, their own HW drivers, their
>> own GTK, their own TCP/IP stack, their own web browsers. I have never
>> heard of Debian/Mozilla, Fedora/Mozilla, Mandriva/Mozilla etc. So why
>> linux distros cannot incorporate TeX Live?
>
> The reason is exactly that TeX-Live is (Linux-)distros unfriendly as it is not
> easily to package it for a particular Linux distribution (and the main reason 
> is
> that it tries to duplicate things that should be done on system level - like 
> the
> package management).
>
TeX Live fills the gap. Now it seems that up-to-date packages may be
available for Fedora but before TL there was no systematic packaging
for Linux distros although TeX exists for decades, CTAN exists, if I
remember it well, for almost 20 years. Yet the Linux distributers did
not create packaging scheme, teTeX was just a small subset. The
userscould install the basic system and then were forced to grab
packages from CTAN, without any packaging, without any manager being
aware of the users do, and moreover the dependencies were unknown so
that users were forced to grab packages by trials and errors. TeX Live
is an external tool but it _does_ provide packaging, updates etc.

>> Why everybody wants to repeat the job his/her own way but terribly delayed?
>>
>> I know it should be reported on the distros bugzillas, not here...
>
> --
> Petr Tomasek 
> Jabber: but...@jabbim.cz
>
> 
> EA 355:001  DU DU DU DU
> EA 355:002  TU TU TU TU
> EA 355:003  NU NU NU NU NU NU NU
> EA 355:004  NA NA NA NA NA
> 
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to manually create the xelatex.fmt?

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/21 Chris Travers :
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Peter Dyballa  wrote:
>>
>> Am 20.10.2011 um 16:54 schrieb Chris Travers:
>>
>>> One of the other commentors talks about documents that don't render on
>>> all versions of TexLive.  If a client of mine is depending on this
>>> working, upgrading the various stuff from CTAN in order to get a
>>> security fix in an underlying program is a non-starter because it may
>>> break things, just as it breaks other documents.
>>
> You wrote:
>>> You're mixing up things! TeX is a set of a few binaries, some of them are 
>>> the TeX engines (pdfTeX, XeTeX, LuaTeX, conTeXt). The majority of the TeX 
>>> software are text files. If a change in a library is breaking the TeX 
>>> engine, then the change itself is faulty. If you're using a TeX function 
>>> (library call) of a future version of that software, then something has to 
>>> fail. If you're using an old function (library call) that has been changed, 
>>> then you can't assume something useful will happen to come out.<<
>
> My reply:
> I'm not the one mixing things up.  What I am saying is perhaps a bit
> different.  If you are tying the .sty upgrades to binary upgrades,
> then an upgrade in a binary requires .sty upgrades, and these can
> break document generation systems.
>
No! Binaries define the TeX primitives as \hbox, \relax, \vskip etc.
The .sty file define macros that are base on other macros in the
format and all this is based on primitives. Binary update improve
efficiencies, may fix some bugs but _never_ change the primitives,
thus binary updates never break .sty files. It was different with
luatex. It was clearly announced at its beginning that everything is
experimental and any lua feature can be changed. Such changes not only
break .sty files but even your .tex files.

> Think about it this way.  Suppose you are doing magazine layout in
> LaTeX.  You start with open ended problems.  You can pursue all
> sorts of courses in solving them.  You want up to date packages which
> have as few bugs that other people have run into as possible.  I think
> we all agree on that.
>
> However, suppose you have a piece of software that generates documents
> in LaTeX.  This design is done once and thereafter it is run in a
> predictable fashion.  Once you have done your testing, you can assume
> that barring unexpected and invalid inputs on the part of a user, it
> will function correctly forever.  Note the user here isn't writing
> LaTeX documents.  The user is just doing data entry, so all input can
> be sanitized of LaTeX commands.  Consequently, predictability is key
> here, and the last thing you want done is to change the behavior
> under the program just because another more important upgrade needs
> it.  The needs in this environment are completely different from the
> needs of the LaTeX user.
>
In such a cas do not rely on someone else's packages that are out of
your control. Write your own package based on LaTeX kernel macros or
even on plain TeX. That's what I do even for a series of books that
started in 1992 and new books in these series are published till now
and will be published a few more years. I started with emTeX in
MS-DOS, continued with emTeX in OS/2, now I do the job with TeX Live
in Linux. I have made improvements to make my work easier but
occasionally I have to reprocess 18 years old document (prepared in
emTeX) using the latest TeX Live and i have never found any problem.
My macros still work.

> So what sorts of fixes does the latter environment need?  Well, let me
> make up a hypthetical security vulnerability-- keep in mind this
> software is not running on the user's system.  Suppose a vulnerability
> is found where if a user sends in a specific UTF-16 string and the
> software expects UTF-8, that it causes a buffer overflow somewhere
> (this can happen because UTF-16 strings sometimes contain null bytes
> while UTF-8 can still use null bytes as string terminators), and this
> allows an attacker to now run arbitrary code on the server.  Let's say
> furthermore that the problem isn't with LaTeX but with some other
> library it is linked to.  Now, if you are a LaTeX user, and on a
> workstation, then this is an important security fix, and there is
> little harm in updating everything in TexLive.  But if you are doing
> stuff on a server, this is a critical fix, and you definitely don't
> want to be updating unrelated stuff at the same time.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Chris Travers
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] traditional to simplified Chinese character conversion utility or data base

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/22 Daniel Greenhoe :
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Zdenek Wagner  
> wrote:
>> If you wish to do it on the fly in XeTeX,  you can write a TECkit map.
>
> I do have a map now. Can someone tell me how to do the conversion "on
> the fly" in XeLaTeX? I did see the command line option
> "-translate-file=TCXNAME", but for that it says "(ignored)".
>
\usepackage{fontspec}
\setmainfont[Mapping=mapname]{fontname}

or

\fontspec[Mapping=mapname]{fontname}

TCX tables are used in pdftex and the table is used for the whole
document (and cannot be changed). TECkit map is applied in XeTeX per
font and can even be replaced (eg in a group) by
\addfontfeatures{Mapping=mapname}.

> Dan
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Zdenek Wagner  
> wrote:
>> 2011/10/17 Daniel Greenhoe :
>>> I know that this is not really the right mailing list for this
>>> question, but I have so far not found the answer by any other means
>>> ...
>>>
>>> I would like to find or write some a utility that would take an
>>> unicode encoded file and map Chinese traditional characters to
>>> simplified, while leaving all other code points (such  as those in the
>>> Latin and IPA code spaces) untouched. For example, the traditional
>>> character for horse (馬) is at unicode U+99AC, the simplified one (马)
>>> is at unicode U+9A6C, and the Latin character for "A" is at U+0041. So
>>> I want a utility that would change the 99AC to 9A6C, but leave the
>>> 0041 unchanged.
>>>
>> If it is really that simple 1:1 mapping, you can just use tr, it does
>> exactly that if you supply the map. If you wish to do it on the fly in
>> XeTeX, you can write a TECkit map. Having the TECkit map you can also
>> run txtconv from the command line.
>>
>>> Does anyone know of such a utility? Does anyone know of any data base
>>> with a traditional to simplified character mapping such that I could
>>> maybe write the utility myself?
>>>
>>> Many thanks in advance,
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Zdeněk Wagner
>> http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/wagner/
>> http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz
>>
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [XeTeX] Performance of ucharclasses

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/23 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) :
>
>
> Tobias Schoel wrote:
>
>> Besides, I also wouldn't do, if it was allowed. Who knows, what methods
>> the author employs in order to enforce the "discouragement"? ;-)
>
> I believe a much-loved horse's head in one's bed
> is generally favoured in such circumstances !
>
It is not important how we understand the licenses. It is always
important what lawyers say. It would need a lot of effort (or maybe
even money) to give all licenses to lawyers for examination, therefore
distros maintainers (not only TeX Live) select some well defined
licenses that can be considered free.

> ** Phil.


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Re: [XeTeX] How to Convert Devanagari (sanskrit) text to Telugu Text

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/24 A u :
> Hi,
> I have certain text that I typed in Sanskrit. I would like to convert this
> to other Indian languages (i.e. Telugu, Tamil and Kanada)
> If there is an example that you can point to I would greatly appreciate your
> help.

I hope that a simple 1:1 mapping can be used, Devanagari U+0901 ->
Telugu U+0C01 etc. Such a map can be prepared for TECkit. I do not
know other Indian scripts and languages, it is just a guess.

> Regards
> Ak
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to Convert Devanagari (sanskrit) text to Telugu Text

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/25 Tirumurti Vasudevan :
> well, i am a newbie myself and dont understand your problem. could you send
> a sample file?
> you want a transliteration, right?
> copy paste the text portions in the converter, get it converted.
> copy paste the sanskrit tex file into new file, replace the text portion,
> redefine the script and font settings, save.
> done.
>
This can be done if you have just a few sentences that have already
been proof read and will never change. If you have a long text, you
want to typeset it in several scripts and probably will be corrected
after proof reading, this is a lengthy, tedious, error prone
operation. The solution is a TECkit map. Suppose you have a text in
Devanagari, which is in a separate file, and you want to typeset it in
Devanagari as well as in a few othe scripts. Using TECkit maps yo
simply write:

\input{devanagari_text}

{\fontspec[Mapping=devanagari2telugu]{Telugu font}
\input{devanageri_text}
}

{\fontspec{Mapping=devanagari2malayalam]{Malayalam font}
\input{devanagari_text}
}

If you find a mistake during proof reading, you correct it just in
devanagari_text and everything will be corrected automatically. All
Indian scripts are arranged on Unicode planes in such a way that the
characters occupy similar places, you just take the Devanagari code
points, remove the "upper part" denoting Devanagari and replace it
with the upper part denoting the target alphabet. You can even blindly
create the map for all codepoints of the plane no matter that some of
them do not represent valid Sanskrit character. Thus the map can be
prepared within a few seconds by a simple program written in your
favourite programming language.

> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:08 PM, A u  wrote:
>>
>> Tirumurti Thanks for the link, but I have a tex file that I want to
>> convert to Telugu how can I do that
>
>
> --
> http://www.swaminathar.org/
> http://aanmikamforyouth.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Performance of ucharclasses

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/25 Tobias Schoel :
>
>
> Am 25.10.2011 10:30, schrieb Keith J. Schultz:
>>
>> O.K. I will jump in here.
>>
>> Intellectual property rights are often a great big gray zone.
>> Maybe, it is time the author of the package speaks up himself
>> what is meant.
>
> That would help.
>
>>
>> Also, it does seem clear if the code being used or parts thereof are from
>> a
>> different party, who may or may not have rights which they will enforce.
>>
>> Furthermore, the author at least signals, s/he wants to keep control of
>> the code.
>> The use of "discouraged" indicates that the author or a third party may or
>> may not
>> go to court over the modified version. It is very clear that the author
>> does not want
>> modified versions being distributed. I admit that stronger legal terms
>> should have been
>> used.
>
> It's clear that he wants to keep control of the code of the  package called

LPPL is a good choice for such packages if the authors to make them free.

> ucharclasses . What is not clear at all, is, whether one might borrow freely
> from this package when writing a different package. This issue is not

No, you cannot unless you are granted explicit permission.

> covered exactly as this. It is allowed to use the package freely. A
> definition of "use" is missing. One might argue, that copying the text,
> changing it and calling it the foobar package, is use.
>
Usin means that you install it on your disk and put
\usepackage{ucharclasses} to your document.
>>
>> As the author has used this fuzzy legal terminology, it very hard to say
>> how a judge might
>> rule. It is like parking a car just because the car is not parked inside
>> of a no parking zone
>> you could still get a fine.
>
> Exactly: copyright laws still apply. So a restriction in a software license
> is usually nonsense: Everything that is forbidden by law need not be
> forbidden by license. Everything that is not forbidden by law can't be
> forbidden by license. (This might depend on the judicion, so it's probably
> wrong in the USA.)
>
The law does not allow you to use someone else's intellectual property
without permission. It is the license that grants you permissions. The
permissions can be granted for free or for a fee.


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Re: [XeTeX] How to Convert Devanagari (sanskrit) text to Telugu Text

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/25 A u :
> I have a text like this, I typed using XeLatex. I want to change this below
> text to Telugu font.
> तपः स्वाध्याय निरताम् तपस्वी वाग्विदाम् वरम् | \\
>
> नारदम् परिपप्रच्छ वाल्मीकिः मुनि पुंगवम् || १-१-१
>
You need a map containing something like:

LHSName "Devanagari"
RHSName "Telugu"
LHSDescription "Devanagari script"
RHSDescription "Telugu script"
Version "1"
Contact "author's contacn"

pass(Unicode)

U+0901 > U+0C01
U+0902 > U+0C02
...
U+096F > U+0C6F

Then compile the file by teckit_compile. See the TECkit manual.

> regards
>
> Aku
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Tirumurti Vasudevan
>  wrote:
>>
>> well, i am a newbie myself and dont understand your problem. could you
>> send a sample file?
>> you want a transliteration, right?
>> copy paste the text portions in the converter, get it converted.
>> copy paste the sanskrit tex file into new file, replace the text portion,
>> redefine the script and font settings, save.
>> done.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:08 PM, A u  wrote:
>>>
>>> Tirumurti Thanks for the link, but I have a tex file that I want to
>>> convert to Telugu how can I do that
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.swaminathar.org/
>> http://aanmikamforyouth.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
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>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Ftuture state of XeTeX in TeXLive

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/28 Vafa Khalighi :
> Hi
> Since Jonathan has no time any more for coding XeTeX, then what will be the
> state of XeTeX in TeX distributions such as TeXLive? will be XeTeX removed
> from TeXLive just like Aleph and Omega (in favour of LuaTeX) were removed
> from TeXLive?
> Currently we have a large number of Persian TeX users and they need XeTeX
> and if XeTeX gets removed from TeX distribution, then it would create lots
> of problems for our community. Currently I am working on porting my works to
> luatex but that at least takes few years to become stable enough.

I do not know any precise number but it seems to me there are a lot of
XeTeX users in India. Moreover, the Prague Bulletin of Mathematical
Linguistics is typeset by XeLaTeX. Thus I hope XeTeX will not be
removed within a decade.

> Thanks



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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Ftuture state of XeTeX in TeXLive

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/28 George N. White III :
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Mojca Miklavec
>  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 13:19, Vafa Khalighi wrote:
>>> Hi
>>> Since Jonathan has no time any more for coding XeTeX, then what will be the
>>> state of XeTeX in TeX distributions such as TeXLive? will be XeTeX removed
>>> from TeXLive just like Aleph and Omega (in favour of LuaTeX) were removed
>>> from TeXLive?
>>
>> Omega was remove because it was buggy, unmaintained, but most
>> important of all: hardly usable. It took a genius to figure out how to
>> use it, while XeTeX is exactly the contrary. It simplifies everything
>> in comparison to pdfTeX. Omega was low quality and Aleph was
>> deprecated also because LuaTeX now contains all functionality that was
>> worth keeping.
>>
>> There is no reason to remove XeTeX yet (unless it gets merged with
>> LuaTeX one day, but that won't happen yet), but it is true that a
>> maintainer is desperately needed. If nothing else, if nobody adapts
>> the code, it might stop working with next version of Mac OS X or a
>> version after that.
>
> If I have an old house that meets my needs but has substandard
> plumbing and wiring, I may be in desperate need of a contractor
> who can bring it up to current standards, or I can tear it down and
> build a new house.  Both options are expensive, but renovation
> involves greater uncertainties requires more skills than does new
> construction, so unless there are other considerations (house is a
> historical landmark), new construction is often better than renovation.
>
> Clearly XeTeX fills a need, but that doesn't mean it deserves ongoing
> development.   The groups that rely on XeTeX have to either find a way
> to support development or switch to a new engine, which at present is
> LuaTeX.   There has already been discussion of what would be needed
> to make the changes in XeTeX, maybe there needs to be discussion
> (in LuaTeX forums) of the barriers to adoption faced by the groups who
> currently rely on XeTeX.
>
Generally, all XeTeX documents must render in luatex without the need
of modifying the source. I see that things are changing. Simple नमस्ते
दुनिया fails in luatex from TL 2010 but works in TL 2011. We cannot
switch from XeTeX to luatex today but it may be possible in the
future.
> --
> George N. White III 
> Head of St. Margarets Bay, Nova Scotia
>



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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Ftuture state of XeTeX in TeXLive

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/28 Khaled Hosny :
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 02:50:53PM +0200, Zdenek Wagner wrote:
>> Generally, all XeTeX documents must render in luatex without the need
>> of modifying the source. I see that things are changing. Simple नमस्ते
>> दुनिया fails in luatex from TL 2010 but works in TL 2011. We cannot
>> switch from XeTeX to luatex today but it may be possible in the
>> future.
>
> I by works you mean you are getting some output, then this is true,
> otherwise I don't think you will get correct Indic rendering with the
> current OpenType "engine" used by luatex packages.
>
In Devanagari, there are two important features: creation of conjuncts
(correct even in luatex of TL 2010) and moving short "I" matra in
front of the consonant (correct in lualatex of TL 2011 but not TL
2010, I can send you the PDF's for comparison, if you like). I have
not done any test with mor complex text (I will try some of my files).
I cannot test other Indic scripts because I do not know them. Tibetan
script may be difficult.

> Regards,
>  Khaled
>



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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Ftuture state of XeTeX in TeXLive

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/28 Khaled Hosny :
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 05:57:20PM +0200, Zdenek Wagner wrote:
> I don't know much about Indic scripts, all I know is that we have no
> special code for Indic shaping, so if things work then it works because
> it relies on generic OpenType features that require no special handling
> from the engine.
>
Sorry for the noise, I was not careful enough to look and forgot that
I see the XeLaTeX result, not lualatex. The rendering is not correct
and when I tried a real Hindi text (a few poems) it looks really
terribly. I know the rules for Devanagari but do not know where to
plug them in. My knowledge of luatex is almost zero, I have just
passed Taco's lua tutorial last year on CM at Brejlov. Lua as a
language will not be difficult for me (I already know Algol, PL/I, C,
C++, Perl, PHP, Pascal, Java, Tcl), I just have to learn lua's TeX
interface.

> Regards,
>  Khaled
>



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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Ftuture state of XeTeX in TeXLive

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/28 Khaled Hosny :
> I think it would not be hard to convince Hans to write the code once he
> is given a clear specification (but that would require familiarity with
> OpenType and how it handles Indic shaping as well) and someone who can
> do the testing.
>
The rules are coded in ICU and Pango and described in the Unicode
standard with enough examples for Devanagari. Simply stated, the "I"
matra U+03F must precede a consonant group (consonats connected with
virama U+094D) after which it appears. Consonant + virama + ra
(U+0930) does not follow normal rule for conjuncts but a special repha
sign is used. Ra + virama + consonant group + optional matra should be
rendered so that the Ra is displayed as the hook-like symbol at the
write edge of the syllable. If the syllable ends with anusvara
(U+0902), the anusvara is printed inside the RA hook.
The consonant may contain both a matra below (short u = U+0941, long u
= U+0942) and an anusvara (U+0902) or candrabindu (U+0901) above. They
should be vertically aligned but it is not in nowadays luatex. There
may be other rules, I will have to think more. I have enough Hindi
texts to test whether Devanagari works. I cannot help with other Indic
scripts.

And there is also normalization problem. For instance, ZA (U+0958) can
be alternatively coded as JA (U+091C) followed by a nukta (U+093C).
Some fonts do not have ZA so that it must be combined, some fonts
contain ZA and do not contain nukta so that ZA must not be combined,
some fonts contain both. XeTeX as default does not perfprm any
normalization but both methods ZA <---> JA + nukta can be switched on.
There are other characters that can be represented by another
character with nukta appended.

> Regards,
>  Khaled
>



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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Future state of XeTeX in TeXLive

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/28  :
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2011, William Adams wrote:
>> > majority of documents are created using GUI tools.   What use cases
>> > are better served by batch mode, and in what cases is TeX used by
>> > default because of available GUI tools refuse to play.
>>
>> Large database publications. Variable data printing.
>
> Also, anything where documents end up checked into the source control
> and configuration management systems used for software development.  It's
> really nice to be able to compile my TeX documents along with my code.  I
> can't do that with GUI tools.

Documents being written by several people in cooperation in real time
(usually living in a versioning system)

Documents that have to be rendered from sources on several different platforms

Documents that have to be rendered from sources years later

Documents containing math

Documents created on-the-fly by a web service

(Just for comparison: a few years ago it was my job to produce a
printed book from database data where authors did not distinguish
hyphens from dashes and put chemical formulas as H2SO4 on a line, not
as H$_2$SO$_4$ because they do not know tex, do not have indexes on a
keyboard and wrote it in the web form. I prepared an auxilliary file
with replacements inside TeX macros and typesetting 80 pages book took
me just 2 hours, including hand-tuning the page breaks. Now it is done
by another man using InDesign, it takes him 4 weeks and he does not
correct any of these errors.)
> --
> Matthew Skala
> msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca                 People before principles.
> http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Future state of XeTeX in TeXLive

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/28 maxwell :
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2011, William Adams wrote:
>> majority of documents are created using GUI tools.   What use cases
>> are better served by batch mode, and in what cases is TeX used by
>> default because of available GUI tools refuse to play.
>
> We have a process that starts with DocBook (XML) and gets converted to
> XeLaTeX using the dblatex program.  We have what I consider to be very good
> reasons for this approach (I suppose some on this list might disagree),
> including interacting with other XML-based processes, automatic tagging of
> words for script, extracting various kinds of data (grammar rules to be
> converted into parsers, examples to be converted into test cases for those
> parsers, etc.).  So yes, we use batch mode.
>
> I don't know how many other users of dblatex there are, but there seem to
> be enough to justify its existence--we didn't create it, we were just lucky
> to find it.  (And also fortunate to need xelatex just as it had matured.)
>
Occasionally I need strictly formatted documents with a limited set of
elements. For this purpose I define the structure in Relax NG and
write an XSLT stylesheet for transformation to (Xe)LaTeX. I am just
working on such a book that will be written in XML and typeset with
XeLaTeX.

>   Mike Maxwell
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Ftuture state of XeTeX in TeXLive

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/28 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) :
>
>
> Mojca Miklavec wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 13:19, Vafa Khalighi wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>> Since Jonathan has no time any more for coding XeTeX, then what will be
>>> the
>>> state of XeTeX in TeX distributions such as TeXLive? will be XeTeX
>>> removed
>>> from TeXLive just like Aleph and Omega (in favour of LuaTeX) were removed
>>> from TeXLive?
>>
>> Omega was remove because it was buggy, unmaintained, but most
>> important of all: hardly usable. It took a genius to figure out how to
>> use it, while XeTeX is exactly the contrary. It simplifies everything
>> in comparison to pdfTeX.
>
> I think that last remark is grossly unfair, although probably
> not intentionally so.  XeTeX adds functionality that was non-
> existent in PdfTeX, but that hardly makes it simpler.  It
> also introduces a non-TeXlike syntax, particularly (perhaps
> only) in the extended \font primitive that could (IMHO)
> have been better thought out, particularly in the overloading
> of string quotes and the introduction of square brackets.
>
If I understand Mojca correctly, she compared XeTeX to Omega. Look
what was needed to typeset a Devanagari text in Omega. It was
necessary to plug a few OTP's. Some users somehow managed to do it but
it required non-TeX files. In XeTeX you have to define that the font
is in the Devanagari script and the rest is just TeX.

> Philip Taylor
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Ftuture state of XeTeX in TeXLive

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/28 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) :
>
>
> Zdenek Wagner wrote :
>
>> 2011/10/28 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) :
>
>>> Mojca Miklavec wrote :
>
>>>> Omega was remove because it was buggy, unmaintained, but most
>>>> important of all: hardly usable. It took a genius to figure out how to
>>>> use it, while XeTeX is exactly the contrary. It simplifies everything
>>>> in comparison to pdfTeX.
>>>
>>> I think that last remark is grossly unfair, although probably
>>> not intentionally so.  XeTeX adds functionality that was non-
>>> existent in PdfTeX, but that hardly makes it simpler.  It
>>> also introduces a non-TeXlike syntax, particularly (perhaps
>>> only) in the extended \font primitive that could (IMHO)
>>> have been better thought out, particularly in the overloading
>>> of string quotes and the introduction of square brackets.
>>>
>> If I understand Mojca correctly, she compared XeTeX to Omega.
>
> If that were the case, Zdenek, would Mojca not have written
> "XeTeX is exactly the contrary. It simplifies everything
> in comparison to Omega.", rather than "XeTeX is exactly
> the contrary. It simplifies everything in comparison to pdfTeX."
> which is what she actually wrote ?
>
Well, I I want to typeset a text in Hindi using XeLaTeX, I just type a
text in UTF-8, switch the font (using the fontspec package) by
\fontspec[Script=Devanagari]{fontname} and it works. If I do the same
in lualatex, it does not work, I would have to plug somewhere a lot of
lua code in order to specify how to handle the Devanagari script. The
fontspec package just handles loading the font, not correct rendering
of the text.

> ** Phil.
>



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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Future state of XeTeX in TeXLive

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/29 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) :
>
>
> Chris Travers wrote:
>
>> I think you are assuming a lot about knowledge of book design.  The
>> LaTeX styles out of the box are a bit formal.  I think the margins are
>> too wide, and I prefer different fonts  But I would hardly call
>> them "ugly" ...
>
> OK. one quote from my 1993 paper "Book Design for TeX Users, part 1",
> and then I shut up and let others debate the point if they wish :
>
You are right, I remember your lectures for CSTUG. When I started to
play with LaTeX 20 years ago, I saw that the documents look ugly but I
did not know why. After a few lectures I learned the reason. And
fortunatelly when typesetting the first few books the publisher gave
me another book from the same series and I had to preserve the
graphical design. Thus I have learned how to tweak LaTeX styles.

What is good on LaTeX is that the author can type the document using
the prefabricated (ugly) classes and they are rendered somehow, so
that the author can work on the text. In the meantime a typographer
designs a package or a class implementing required graphical design by
redefining the standard macros. When it is finished, just
\documentclass and/or \usepackage are chganged and page breaks are
hand tuned.

I have also prepared classes/packages for a few companies. The user
know standard LaTeX and do not wish to learn new macros. A typographer
invented the graphical layout be he does not know TeX. I was just a
LaTeX programmer who converted the layout to a new definitions of
\chapter, \section etc.

Samples of my 3 books are displayed on
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz/vsechna.editina.tajemstvi/
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz/chromozom46yb/
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz/sedmero.dracich.srdci/

Everything is in Czech only, the link to a sample in PDF is almost at
the end of the page, look for "ukázku" or "ukázka ke stažení". The
colophon says that the book was typeset in pdfLaTeX, the link to the
colophon in PDF is "v tiráži". And the colophon contains URL of TeX
Live.

>> Knuth, in his closing exhortation, wrote: "GO FORTH now and
>> create masterpieces of the publishing art." Nowhere, so far as I can
>> trace, did he write: "and let every one of them shriek 'TEX' from every
>> page". . .
>
> http://www.ntg.nl/maps/19/10.pdf
> http://www.ntg.nl/maps/19/11.pdf
>
> ** Phil.
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] TECkit map for Latin alphabet to Unicode IPA

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/10/30 Daniel Greenhoe :
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Andy Lin  wrote:
>> This is actually the reason I abandoned developing the map file
>> further. I had started based on the textipa replacements that I knew,
>> and then I discovered all the additional commands and realized that
>> they could not be implemented by TECkit along ...
>
> For better or for worse, I would like to finish what I have started.
> Currently my problem is finding a good method for typesetting glyphs
> with diacritics. For example the "b" with a small circle under it
> (voiceless b) is quite important in Chinese. Any suggestions for
> typesetting glyphs with diacritics? That is, what would be a good way
> to put a small circle under a letter without using the tipa package?
> Maybe it is about at this point where my desired "TECkit map only"
> solution starts to break down.
>
It depends... In Linux you can define your own xkb map and thus have
all accents on your keyboard. It is possible to define macros in emacs
but both these solutins are nonportable, you cannot give them to a
user who prefers another text editor on a different platform. TECkit
map is portable, you just send the map and instruct users how to
install it.

> Dan
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Andy Lin  wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 04:06, Daniel Greenhoe  wrote:
>>> What I would really like is a "drop in" solution involving a TECkit
>>> map only. That is, I would like to be able to hand such a map off to a
>>> linguist, and to tell him/her to simply add in something like this to
>>> his/her tex file:
>>>   \addfontfeatures{Mapping=tipa2uni}.
>>> And that's it --- just one support file: a TECkit map file.
>>
>> This is actually the reason I abandoned developing the map file
>> further. I had started based on the textipa replacements that I knew,
>> and then I discovered all the additional commands and realized that
>> they could not be implemented by TECkit along (don't get me wrong,
>> TECkit maps are very powerful, I've written one to convert
>> arabtex-like romanization into Persian). After tipa support was added
>> to xunicode, I just used that instead.
>>
>> If this "single line" solution is important to you, you could write a
>> wrapper package that calls xunicode, adding whichever redefinitions
>> you need.
>>
>> -Andy
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to Convert Devanagari (sanskrit) text to Telugu Text

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/1 A u :
> Hello Neal,
> Thanks for your help, but I could not create the ".Tec" file. I thought
> running mktexlsr would generate .tec file. But it did not create. when I
> open ".Tec" file in texeditor it was some gibberish.

You have to create it by teckit_compile and run mktexlsr afterwards.

> Thanks for your help
> Aku
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Neal Delmonico 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi AK,
>>
>> After you redefine them so that they produce Telugu instead of Bengali,
>> you place them in your TeX directory and run mktexlsr.
>>
>> I keep mine in a subdirectory under:
>>
>> /usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/fonts/misc/xelatex/fontmappings/
>>
>> Then in the header of your document you put something like:
>>
>> \newfontfamily\bengalifont[Script=Bengali, Mapping=RomBen]{Code2000}
>> \newcommand{\ben}[1]{{\bengalifont{#1}}}
>>
>> Only yours will define a Telugu font and mapping.  Something like:
>>
>> \newfontfamily\telugufont[Script=Telugu, Mapping=RomTelugu]{Code2000}
>> \newcommand{\tel}[1]{{\telugufont{#1}}}
>>
>> Then wherever you want Sanskrit in Telugu script you bracket your text
>> with:
>>
>>
>> \tel{
>>
>> \begin{verse}
>>
>> \large
>> vrajendranandanatvena suṣṭhu niṣṭhāmupeyayuḥ|\\
>> yāsāṃ bhāvasya sā mudrā sadbhaktairapi durgamā|| 4||
>>
>> \normalsize
>> yathā lalitamādhave (6.14)
>>
>> gopīnāṃ paśupendranandanajuṣo bhāvasya kastāṃ kṛtī\\
>> vijñātuṃ kṣamate durūhapadavīsañcāriṇaḥ prakriyām |\\
>> āviṣkurvati vaiṣṇavīmapi tanuṃ tasminbhujairjiṣṇubhir\\
>> yāsāṃ hanta caturbhiradbhutaruciṃ rāgodayaḥ kuñcati|| 5||
>>
>> \large
>> bhujācatuṣṭayaṃ kvāpi narmaṇā darśayannapi|\\
>> vṛndāvaneśvarīpremṇā dvibhujaḥ kriyate hariḥ|| 6||
>>
>> \normalsize
>> yathā
>>
>> rāsārambhavidhau nilīya vasatā kuñje mṛgākṣīgaṇair\\
>> dṛṣṭaṃ gopayituṃ svamuddhuradhiyā yā suṣṭhu sandarśitā |\\
>> rādhāyāḥ praṇayasya hanta mahimā yasya śriyā rakṣituṃ\\
>> sā śakyā prabhaviṣṇunāpi hariṇā nāsīccaturbāhutā|| 7||
>>
>> \end{verse}
>>
>> }
>>
>> Run your document through xeLaTex and viola! you should have the above
>> Sanskrit text in Telugu script.
>>
>> This at any rate is how it works for me.  It is easy for me to begin with
>> Romanized transliteration.  From that I can easily go to Devanagari and now
>> Bengali.  The same thing can be done starting with Devanagari instead of the
>> translit, if that is the way you best enter and work with text.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Neal
>>
>> On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 13:05:45 -0500, A u  wrote:
>>
>>> Neal,
>>> Thanks for showing how to map the keys.
>>> Pardon my ignorance but how would I use these two files in my TeX file to
>>> do
>>> the conversion. Do I need to have any software other than XeTeX?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Neal Delmonico
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Greetings All,
>>>>
>>>> Here is a map and tec file that I made up in relatively short time
>>>> converting Roman unicode transliteration into Bengali.  I basically used
>>>> the
>>>> RomDev map as the basis of my changes.   I thought I would experiment
>>>> with
>>>> this based on Zdenek's recommendation for creating such a map.  After a
>>>> few
>>>> adjustments, it seems to work pretty well.  Bengali uses the same
>>>> character
>>>> for ba and va.  So I had to adjust the map for that.  There are several
>>>> remaining problems.  Several of the Bengali-specific characters did not
>>>> come
>>>> through and I am not sure how to address that.  In this schema they need
>>>> some form of Roman transliteration to convert them into.  I am not sure
>>>> if
>>>> there is a settled form of Bengali transliteration.
>>>>
>>>> Also there are two "ya" characters in Bengali.  One is the soft ya which
>>>> is
>>>> pronounced like the ya in Sanskrit and the other is the hard ya which is
>>>> pronounced like ja.  Using straight replacement of unicode codes gets
>>>> one
>>>> the hard ya.  Obviously, to represent Sanskrit in Bengali script one
>>>> needs
>>>> the soft ya.  When I replace the hard ya with the soft ya in the map the
>>>> consonant conjuncts using ya stop working.  They must be built around
>&g

Re: [XeTeX] Hyperref \hyperlink and \hypertarget not working with accented characters

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/2 Ross Moore :
> Hello Andy,
>
> On 02/11/2011, at 10:40 AM, Andy Black wrote:
>
>> I have not heard back from anyone on this issue.
>>
>> Has anyone else had success with hyperlinks that use accent characters in 
>> the link?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --Andy
>>
>> On 9/2/2011 12:02 PM, Andy Black wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'm using XeTeX version 3.1415926-2.2-0.9997.4 (Web2C 2010) (format=xelatex 
>>> 2010.11.15) with hyperref  2010/10/30 v6.81t.
>
>>>    \hyperlink{rAsociación}{APLT (1988)}
>
> Don't use non-ASCII characters in the link.
>
> The link anchor is just a string that is used internally.
> It is never displayed in the PDF, so why risk running
> into encoding problems by using non-ASCII characters?
>
> PDF does not use UTF8 at all.
> You'll have to transform any UTF8 characters into a UTF16
> ASCII-HeX representation of the Unicode code-point,
> both in the destination-label and in any corresponding
> hyperlink target-labels that point at it.
>
I am not sure, I would have to look into the PDF manual but I think
that the link in PDF should be in AdobeStandardEncoding which is a
superset of ASCII (but 8-bit encoding, not UTF-8). If you wish a link
in HTML, the accented characters must be URL encoded.

>>>
>>> with
>>>
>>>    \hypertarget{rAsociación}{Asociación para la Promoción de 
>>> Lecto-Escritura Tlapaneca.  1988.  }
>>>
>>> then the hyperlink in the resulting PDF does not go to the target.  If I 
>>> replace the accented o with an unaccented o, then the hyperlink works fine.
>>>
>>> Do I need to do something special to get the hyperref package to produce 
>>> hyperlinks that work when there are non-A-Z characters?
>
> Hyperref gives the means to do this, using  \pdfstringdef .
>
> But since this label is only used internally, you might as well
> save your self some trouble, and (La)TeX some processing time,
> by just using ASCII letters for such things.
>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> --Andy
>
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>        Ross
>
> 
> Ross Moore                                       ross.mo...@mq.edu.au
> Mathematics Department                           office: E7A-419
> Macquarie University                             tel: +61 (0)2 9850 8955
> Sydney, Australia  2109                          fax: +61 (0)2 9850 8114
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Hyperref \hyperlink and \hypertarget not working with accented characters

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/2 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) :
>
>
> Ross Moore wrote:
>
>> On 02/11/2011, at 10:40 AM, Andy Black wrote:
>>
    \hyperlink{rAsociación}{APLT (1988)}
>>
>> Don't use non-ASCII characters in the link.
>
> Oh dear, does PDF still live in the TeX 2 era ?  Surely /someone/ in
> Adobe is aware that there are character sets other than US English,
> and that those who write in such languages are perfectly entitled
> to wish to use them in links, whether or not such text ever appears
> on-screen ?
>
Adobe _does_ live in such era because tha last really portable reader
for all operating systems is version 3. Bugs reported by me in January
2002 and April 2002 have not been fixed so far.

PDF is based on PS and the string type requires 8bit characters.
Making such a dramatic change in the very hard of the format will make
old PDF's unreadable by new PDF readers.

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Re: [XeTeX] Hyperref \hyperlink and \hypertarget not working with accented characters

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/2 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) :
>
>
> Zdenek Wagner wrote:
>>
>> 2011/11/2 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd):
>
>> Adobe _does_ live in such era because tha last really portable reader
>> for all operating systems is version 3. Bugs reported by me in January
>> 2002 and April 2002 have not been fixed so far.
>>
>> PDF is based on PS and the string type requires 8bit characters.
>> Making such a dramatic change in the very hard of the format will make
>> old PDF's unreadable by new PDF readers.
>
> Don't follow that, Zdenek : the older PDFs will not change,
> will still contain US ASCII strings and so on, but a newer
> reader would be able to handle UTF- strings as
> well -- that was my thinking.
>
No, it won't be that easy. Syntax (string) in links is in
AdobeStandardEncoding and some of these characters are not valid in
UTF-8.

> ** Phil.
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Hyperref \hyperlink and \hypertarget not working with accented characters

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/2 Arthur Reutenauer :
>> OK.  But could a PDF reader not use the same detection algorithm
>> as (say) the Microsoft C# Compiler -- "No BOM : ASCII; BOM : UTF-8" ?
>
>  Of course not; UTF-8 strings do not necessarily contain a BOM.  Where
> did you get that strange idea from?
>
BOM is already used in outlines but the application that creates PDF
has to write BOM. As Arthur wrote, there are a lot of files in UTF-8
that do not have BOM. Even in XML BOM is only optional.

>        Arthur
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to Convert Devanagari (sanskrit) text to Telugu Text

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/2 A u :
> I created the .tec file. How would I tell XeTeX to use the .tec file? I
> created a directory under this path and saved the .map and .tec file there.
> /usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/fonts/misc/xelatex/fontmappings/
>
When selecting the font, use option Mapping=mapfilename (in square
brackets). You can also add it to the current font by
\addfontfeatures[Mapping=mapfilename]. It is described in the fontspec
manual.

आशा कि यह सलाह आपके लिए लाभदायक होगा।
>
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 1:04 AM, bhutex  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:10 PM, A u  wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for your help. I am attaching the .map file I created. I was
>>> wondering if you can tell me if there are any errors. because I am getting a
>>> blank pdf output.
>>
>> After creating the .map file you have to compile it with teckit and .tec
>> file will be the output.
>> .tec file is a binary file. You have to keep this in appropriate directory
>> and then run mktexlsr.
>>
>> After that you will tell XeTeX or XeLaTeX to use this .tec file. Then only
>> your devnagari document will convert in telugu script.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Happy TeXing
>> The BHU TeX Group
>> क्या आप यह देख पा रहें हैं।
>> इस का मतलब आप का कम्प्यूटर यूनीकोड
>> को समझती है। देर किस बात की हिन्दी मे
>> चिठ्ठियां लिखिये।
>> I use OpenOffice3.1! Do you!!
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
>>  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Hyperref \hyperlink and \hypertarget not working with accented characters

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/2 Heiko Oberdiek :
> On Wed, Nov 02, 2011 at 01:11:04PM +, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) 
> wrote:
>
>> >Byte string means that the string consists of bytes 0-255 (or 1..255).
>> >Can you write them with XeTeX in a file or use as destination names
>> >without using a different encoding?
>>
>> I do not understand the question.  There /is/ no "encoding" in a
>> byte string; it is a byte string, by definition.  What am I missing ?
>
> That XeTeX can't write byte strings.
>
A character in UTF-8 is 1 to 5 bytes. UTF-8 string must use prefix
encoding so that the reader must always know whether the part already
read is a complete character or whether other byte(s) have to be read.
That's why certain bytes at certain positions are not valid in UTF-8
strings. XeTeX can write UTF-8 only, it means it cannot write
arbitrary strings.

> Yours sincerely
>  Heiko Oberdiek
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to Convert Devanagari (sanskrit) text to Telugu Text

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/2 A u :
> I am attaching the files, can you tell me what I am doing wrong. I created
> "xetex-devtotel" directory under this
> path /usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/fonts/misc/xetex/fontmappings/
> place .map and .tec file under the director. I am attaching the tex file
> along with output also.
> thanks for your help
>
Is there some error message? Trying with txtconv I can verify that the
map converts the file to something that looks like Telugu but then I
have a problem typical for RHEL based distros, XeTeX finds the
Pothana2000 font but xdvipdfmx cannot find it although the font is
installed and other applications can use it.

> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Zdenek Wagner 
> wrote:
>>
>> 2011/11/2 A u :
>> > I created the .tec file. How would I tell XeTeX to use the .tec file? I
>> > created a directory under this path and saved the .map and .tec file
>> > there.
>> > /usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/fonts/misc/xelatex/fontmappings/
>> >
>> When selecting the font, use option Mapping=mapfilename (in square
>> brackets). You can also add it to the current font by
>> \addfontfeatures[Mapping=mapfilename]. It is described in the fontspec
>> manual.
>>
>> आशा कि यह सलाह आपके लिए लाभदायक होगा।
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 1:04 AM, bhutex  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:10 PM, A u  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks for your help. I am attaching the .map file I created. I was
>> >>> wondering if you can tell me if there are any errors. because I am
>> >>> getting a
>> >>> blank pdf output.
>> >>
>> >> After creating the .map file you have to compile it with teckit and
>> >> .tec
>> >> file will be the output.
>> >> .tec file is a binary file. You have to keep this in appropriate
>> >> directory
>> >> and then run mktexlsr.
>> >>
>> >> After that you will tell XeTeX or XeLaTeX to use this .tec file. Then
>> >> only
>> >> your devnagari document will convert in telugu script.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Happy TeXing
>> >> The BHU TeX Group
>> >> क्या आप यह देख पा रहें हैं।
>> >> इस का मतलब आप का कम्प्यूटर यूनीकोड
>> >> को समझती है। देर किस बात की हिन्दी मे
>> >> चिठ्ठियां लिखिये।
>> >> I use OpenOffice3.1! Do you!!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
>> >>  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
>> >  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Zdeněk Wagner
>> http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/wagner/
>> http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
>>  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to Convert Devanagari (sanskrit) text to Telugu Text

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/3 A u :
> I did not get any error message either in my Mac or on my linux message. I
> did run mktexlsr after creating the ,map file.
> I am attaching the output that I got in my mac machine.
>
Tha .map file itself does nothing, the .tec file is important? Have
you run mktexlsr AFTER installing the .tec file? If the .tec file is
in a correct directory, mktexlst has been run and it still does not
work, it will be necessary to try

strace xelatex DevtoTel

in order to see what files are used.

> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 7:33 PM, Zdenek Wagner 
> wrote:
>>
>> 2011/11/2 A u :
>> > I am attaching the files, can you tell me what I am doing wrong. I
>> > created
>> > "xetex-devtotel" directory under this
>> > path /usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/fonts/misc/xetex/fontmappings/
>> > place .map and .tec file under the director. I am attaching the tex file
>> > along with output also.
>> > thanks for your help
>> >
>> Is there some error message? Trying with txtconv I can verify that the
>> map converts the file to something that looks like Telugu but then I
>> have a problem typical for RHEL based distros, XeTeX finds the
>> Pothana2000 font but xdvipdfmx cannot find it although the font is
>> installed and other applications can use it.
>>
>> > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Zdenek Wagner 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 2011/11/2 A u :
>> >> > I created the .tec file. How would I tell XeTeX to use the .tec file?
>> >> > I
>> >> > created a directory under this path and saved the .map and .tec file
>> >> > there.
>> >> > /usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/fonts/misc/xelatex/fontmappings/
>> >> >
>> >> When selecting the font, use option Mapping=mapfilename (in square
>> >> brackets). You can also add it to the current font by
>> >> \addfontfeatures[Mapping=mapfilename]. It is described in the fontspec
>> >> manual.
>> >>
>> >> आशा कि यह सलाह आपके लिए लाभदायक होगा।
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 1:04 AM, bhutex  wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:10 PM, A u  wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Thanks for your help. I am attaching the .map file I created. I was
>> >> >>> wondering if you can tell me if there are any errors. because I am
>> >> >>> getting a
>> >> >>> blank pdf output.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> After creating the .map file you have to compile it with teckit and
>> >> >> .tec
>> >> >> file will be the output.
>> >> >> .tec file is a binary file. You have to keep this in appropriate
>> >> >> directory
>> >> >> and then run mktexlsr.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> After that you will tell XeTeX or XeLaTeX to use this .tec file.
>> >> >> Then
>> >> >> only
>> >> >> your devnagari document will convert in telugu script.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Happy TeXing
>> >> >> The BHU TeX Group
>> >> >> क्या आप यह देख पा रहें हैं।
>> >> >> इस का मतलब आप का कम्प्यूटर यूनीकोड
>> >> >> को समझती है। देर किस बात की हिन्दी मे
>> >> >> चिठ्ठियां लिखिये।
>> >> >> I use OpenOffice3.1! Do you!!
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
>> >> >>  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
>> >> >  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Zdeněk Wagner
>> >> http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/wagner/
>> >> http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
>> >>  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
>> >  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Zdeněk Wagner
>> http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/wagner/
>> http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.:
>>  http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
>
>
>
>
> --
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>



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Re: [XeTeX] How to Convert Devanagari (sanskrit) text to Telugu Text

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/3 A u :
> I am repatedly asked to compile here is the process of what I did

Yes, I know. I tried your .tec file by txtconv and it seems to work.

> Under this directory
> /usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/fonts/misc/xetex/fontmappings/
> 1. I created a folder called "xetex-devtotel"
> 2. I put the .map file there.
> 3. Run the teckit_compile
> 4. It generated the .tec file.
> 5. Ran the mktexlsr
> After that I run my .tex file using xetex.
> I got a blank output. am I missing something or is there anything wrong in
> the process I followed.
>
run:

strace xelatex DevtoTel 2>strace.log

and send me strace.log, I will try to find what's wrong

> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Zdenek Wagner 
> wrote:
>>
>> 2011/11/3 A u :
>> > I did not get any error message either in my Mac or on my linux message.
>> > I
>> > did run mktexlsr after creating the ,map file.
>> > I am attaching the output that I got in my mac machine.
>> >
>> Tha .map file itself does nothing, the .tec file is important? Have
>> you run mktexlsr AFTER installing the .tec file? If the .tec file is
>> in a correct directory, mktexlst has been run and it still does not
>> work, it will be necessary to try
>>
>> strace xelatex DevtoTel
>>
>> in order to see what files are used.
>>
>> > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 7:33 PM, Zdenek Wagner 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 2011/11/2 A u :
>> >> > I am attaching the files, can you tell me what I am doing wrong. I
>> >> > created
>> >> > "xetex-devtotel" directory under this
>> >> >
>> >> > path /usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/fonts/misc/xetex/fontmappings/
>> >> > place .map and .tec file under the director. I am attaching the tex
>> >> > file
>> >> > along with output also.
>> >> > thanks for your help
>> >> >
>> >> Is there some error message? Trying with txtconv I can verify that the
>> >> map converts the file to something that looks like Telugu but then I
>> >> have a problem typical for RHEL based distros, XeTeX finds the
>> >> Pothana2000 font but xdvipdfmx cannot find it although the font is
>> >> installed and other applications can use it.
>> >>
>> >> > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Zdenek Wagner
>> >> > 
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 2011/11/2 A u :
>> >> >> > I created the .tec file. How would I tell XeTeX to use the .tec
>> >> >> > file?
>> >> >> > I
>> >> >> > created a directory under this path and saved the .map and .tec
>> >> >> > file
>> >> >> > there.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > /usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/fonts/misc/xelatex/fontmappings/
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> When selecting the font, use option Mapping=mapfilename (in square
>> >> >> brackets). You can also add it to the current font by
>> >> >> \addfontfeatures[Mapping=mapfilename]. It is described in the
>> >> >> fontspec
>> >> >> manual.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> आशा कि यह सलाह आपके लिए लाभदायक होगा।
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 1:04 AM, bhutex  wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 5:10 PM, A u 
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Thanks for your help. I am attaching the .map file I created. I
>> >> >> >>> was
>> >> >> >>> wondering if you can tell me if there are any errors. because I
>> >> >> >>> am
>> >> >> >>> getting a
>> >> >> >>> blank pdf output.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> After creating the .map file you have to compile it with teckit
>> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> .tec
>> >> >> >> file will be the output.
>> >> >> >> .tec file is a binary file. You have to keep this in appropriate
>> >> >> >> directory
>> >> >> >> and then run mktexlsr.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> After that you will tell XeT

Re: [XeTeX] How to Convert Devanagari (sanskrit) text to Telugu Text

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/3 Peter Dyballa :
>
> Am 03.11.2011 um 13:46 schrieb A u:
>
>> /usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/fonts/misc/xetex/fontmappings/
>
> The correct pathname would be: 
> /usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/fonts/misc/xetex/fontmapping. Since your 
> files are local additions to the TeX distribution it's better you save them in
>
>        /usr/local/texlive/texmf-local/fonts/fonts/misc/xetex/fontmapping
>
This little misprint should not be a problem, AFAIK xetex finds the
.tec files below $TEXMF/fonts/misc, thus fontmappings instead of
fontmapping should not matter but doubling "fonts" in
texmf-local/fonts/fonts/misc/... will be a problem. The output of
strace could help.

> sudo mkdir -p 
> /usr/local/texlive/texmf-local/fonts/misc/xetex/fontmapping/dev2tel       # 
> for easier reading
> sudo cp  
> /usr/local/texlive/texmf-local/fonts/misc/xetex/fontmapping/dev2tel
> sudo teckit_compile 
> /usr/local/texlive/texmf-local/fonts/misc/xetex/fontmapping/dev2tel/ file.map> -o 
> /usr/local/texlive/texmf-local/fonts/misc/xetex/fontmapping/dev2tel/ file.tec>
> sudo mktexlsr /usr/local/texlive/texmf-local
>
> If the PDF output is still quite empty we'd need the source file and the LOG 
> file from the XeLaTeX run.
>
> --
> Greetings
>
>  Pete
>
> Theory and practice are the same, in theory, but, in practice, they are 
> different.
>
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] XeTeX/TeX Live : Setting the default language

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/3 Arthur Reutenauer :
>  Just edit your language.def file.  Actually, you can create a one-line
> file that says "british loadhyph-en-gb.tex" (not hyph-en-gb.tex!) and
> create the format with fmtutil.
>
The British hyphenation patterns are loaded in the XeLaTeX format so
that you can just switch them using Polyglossia. They are also loaded
in plain XeTeX (unless it was deselected at TL install time). You have
to look into xetex.log, find the corresponding number and then assign
it to \language, it is not necessary to build a format.
>        Arthur
>



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Re: [XeTeX] How to Convert Devanagari (sanskrit) text to Telugu Text

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/4 Peter Dyballa :
>
> Am 03.11.2011 um 23:53 schrieb A u:
>
>> I checked line number 54 and it looks like this "U+092F > U+0C2F"
>
> To me it looks like
>
>        U+092E > U+0C2EU
>
Strange... I have looked at the file I saved 24 hours ago. At this
file line 54 is empty, all mappings contain <> and there is no
superfluous U.
> --
> Greetings
>
>  Pete
>
> Remember: use logout to logout.
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] How to Convert Devanagari (sanskrit) text to Telugu Text

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/4 A u :
> Here is the strace.log file
>
There is something wrong with your ls-R files. As you can see on lines
2137, 2138, 2149, xetex tries to locate devtrel.tec in the current
directory only and then gives up. Compare for instance lines 2119 and
below. File tex-text.tec is not found in the current directory but
xetex tries the system directory and succeeds. Who is the owner of the
ls-R files? If they are owned by root and you run mktexlsr as a normal
user, you will not be allowed to update them. If this does not help,
maybe the file search path was modfied since I aske Jonathan Kew a few
years ago and it really requires fontmapping instead of fontmappings.

There is another potential problem that can show up later. You have
Pothana fonts at 3 places:
/usr/share/fonts/Pothana2000/
/usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-indic-fonts-core/
/home/anant/.fonts/
XeTeX and xdvidfmx could be confused.

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Re: [XeTeX] How to Convert Devanagari (sanskrit) text to Telugu Text

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/4 Peter Dyballa :
>
> Am 04.11.2011 um 01:13 schrieb Zdenek Wagner:
>
>> 2011/11/4 Peter Dyballa :
>>>
>>> Am 03.11.2011 um 23:53 schrieb A u:
>>>
>>>> I checked line number 54 and it looks like this "U+092F > U+0C2F"
>>>
>>> To me it looks like
>>>
>>>        U+092E > U+0C2EU
>>>
>> Strange... I have looked at the file I saved 24 hours ago. At this
>> file line 54 is empty, all mappings contain <> and there is no
>> superfluous U.
>
> Could be the programme you are using for counting lines starts with a line #0?
>
No, I use vim, gedit and  and all of them start at 1.
> --
> Greetings
>
>  Pete
>
> Encryption, n.:
>        A powerful algorithmic encoding technique employed in the creation of 
> computer manuals.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Synching PDF paper size with typesetting size

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/5 Peter Dyballa :
>
> Am 05.11.2011 um 19:06 schrieb Karljurgen Feuerherm:
>
>> Typesets fine... But the output PDF is still letter size
>
> Either set
>
>        \pdfpagewidth=176truemm
>        \pdfpageheight=250truemm
>
> or use the geometry package!
>
or \usepackage[b5,...]{zwpagelayout}
\usepackage[letter,...]{zwpagelayout}
\usepackage[a4]{zwpagelayout}
etc.
Tested with latex+dvips, pdflatex, xelatex(xdvipdfmx)
> --
> Mit friedvollen Grüßen
>
>  Pete
>
> I hope to die before I *have* to use Microsoft Word.
>                        - Donald E. Knuth, 2001-10-02 in Tübingen
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Synching PDF paper size with typesetting size

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/5 Karljurgen Feuerherm :
> Yes, thanks, I see. I starting doing something similar earlier today.
>
> It is true, of course, that one may *not* want B5 pdf when the page is
> B5 (say to allow for trim), so forcing the two to be identical wouldn't
> be the thing to do either...
>
\usepackage[b5,cropmarks]{zwpagelayout} will make the page slightly
larger and print the crop marks so that the paper size is B5 after
trimming.

> K
 On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at  4:55 PM, in message
> <4eb5a2b1.6060...@rhul.ac.uk>,
> "Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)"  wrote:
>
>>
>> Karljurgen Feuerherm wrote:
>>
>>> Hmm. Is there not an integrated solution, set one thing to do it
> both
>> places?
>>
>> Well, specifying a given constant in exactly one place
>> is certainly a cornerstone of rigorous and defensive
>> programming, so I for one am all in favour of such
>> solutions.  Here, by way of example, is the preamble
>> of a document on which I am currently working -- you will
>> see that every key dimension is specified in one place
>> and one place only.  I don't pretend for one second that
>> it addresses your particular needs, but it does show that
>> "one constant, one definition" is not difficult to achieve.
>>
>> Philip Taylor
>> 
>> % !TeX program = xetex
>>
>> \newdimen \innermargin
>> \newdimen \outermargin
>> \newdimen \uppermargin
>> \newdimen \lowermargin
>> \newdimen \cropwidth
>> \newdimen \cropheight
>> \newdimen \cropmark
>> \newdimen \cropmitre
>> \newdimen \Knuthoffset
>>
>> \pdfpagewidth = 210 mm
>> \pdfpageheight = 297mm
>> \cropwidth = 190 mm
>> \cropheight = 250 mm
>> \cropmark = 1 cm
>> \cropmitre = 0.2 cm
>> \innermargin = 1 in
>> \outermargin = 1.5 in
>> \uppermargin = 1 in
>> \lowermargin = 1 in
>> \Knuthoffset = 1 in
>>
>> \def \onehalf {0.5}
>>
>> \hoffset = \pdfpagewidth
>> \advance \hoffset by -\cropwidth
>> \hoffset = \onehalf \hoffset
>> \advance \hoffset by \innermargin
>> \advance \hoffset by -\Knuthoffset
>>
>> \voffset = \pdfpageheight
>> \advance \voffset by -\cropheight
>> \voffset = \onehalf \voffset
>> \advance \voffset by \uppermargin
>> \advance \voffset by -\Knuthoffset
>>
>> \hsize = \cropwidth
>> \advance \hsize by -\innermargin
>> \advance \hsize by -\outermargin
>>
>> \vsize = \cropheight
>> \advance \vsize by -\uppermargin
>> \advance \vsize by -\lowermargin
>>
>> \input cropmarks
>> \topcropmark = \uppermargin plus \cropmark minus -\cropmitre
>> \bottomcropmark = \cropheight  plus \cropmark minus -\cropmitre
>> \advance \bottomcropmark by -\uppermargin
>> \leftcropmark = \innermargin plus \cropmark minus -\cropmitre
>> \rightcropmark = \cropwidth plus \cropmark minus -\cropmitre
>> \advance \rightcropmark by -\innermargin
>>
>>
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Re: [XeTeX] Wacky behavior of XeLaTeX in TeXLive 2011

[Zdenek Wagner]

Hi,
my Liberation Serif (from CentOS 5) contains italic but not greek. I
processed the file by TL 2009, 2010, 2011, the results are at
http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/stripped-down/


2011/11/7 Alessandro Ceschini :
> Hi
>
> To Vafa:
> Wait, there exists a Liberation Serif Italic, just look in your
> \usr\share\fonts directory, it's not normal to get such an error, and no, I
> didn't get it back in TexLive 2010.
> Have you also noticed something like this in your output console?
>
> *
>
> * fontspec warning: "script-not-exist"
>
> *
>
> * Font 'Tinos' does not contain script 'Greek'.
>
> *
>
> That too is new for me, it's a fake error since Greek letters are correctly
> displayed and Tinos DOES contain Greek letters. So, what's wrong with
> fontspec?
>
> To Chandra
> The reality is I just don't subscribe to the mailing list in order to avoid
> getting my box flooded with issues I don't bother with, I just answer by
> clicking on the address at tug.org/pipemail/xetex etc... I understand that's
> rude and selfish so if that's really strictly necessary, I'll ultimately
> subscribe to the mailing list. Just let me know.
>
> Greetings
> --
> /Alessandro Ceschini/
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Wacky behavior of XeLaTeX in TeXLive 2011

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/7 Alessandro Ceschini :
> Hi guys,
> Why should fontspec try to load a crappy slanted shape in the first place? I

At my computer Liberation Serif Italic (and Bold Italic) is found and used.

> just don't understand why! Slanted shapes are a last-resort stuff, not
> first-choice. So why loading a slanted shape when the italic is available?
> I will take a look at your output files, but the real issues is not fontspec
> errors, it's the broken go-to functions in TeXWorks, none of you use
> TeXWorks, right?

No, I edit my files mostly in vim, sometimes in gedit and 
and run tex from a command line, sometimes from a Makefile, sometimes
from an ant file.

> We also don't know if those fontspec errors are related with go-to functions
> in TeXWorks, maybe it's just a coincidence that they happen to occur
> together.
> Greetings
> --
> Alessandro Ceschini
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] Synching PDF paper size with typesetting size

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/11 BPJ :
> On 2011-11-07 13:43, William Adams wrote:
>>
>> %converted to BP 'cause using mm made Acrobat 8 report an error
>
> Aha, that's what I've been experiencing when trying
> to create pdfs in PA4 (210 x 280 mm) format.
>
> What's the conversion formula? According to
> wikipedia 1 DTP point == 0.3528 mm. Is that it?
>
1 in = 72.27 TeX pt = 72 bp (postscript pt), see The TeXbook (there
are also Didot points).

> /bpj
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] in XeTeX

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/11 Le Farfadet Spatial :
>
> Hello everybody out there!
>
> On 11/11/2011 13:55, Oleg Parashchenko wrote:
>>
>> how does XeTeX process the unicode symbol \u00a0 (non-breaking space),
>>
>> * just like any other glyph, or
>> * there is some hidden magic to interpret the symbol as a space with
>> special properties?
>
> I have processed by mistake some code including the non-breaking space
> symbol. It has been processed as quite a large non breaking space, so the
> reaction is the one expected. Anyway, you shouldn't use this symbol: XeTeX
> process the code and add non breaking space symbol when needed, and it uses
> the rules of presentation of the language in which the text you are
> processing is written. Using non breaking space symbol leads to a document
> no totally well composed. If you are in need of a non breaking space, use
> tilda (~).
>
How does XeTeX convert \language to the rules for inserting
nonbreakable spaces after nonsyllabic prepositions in Czech and
Slovak? How does it know that I am in "verbatim" mode and the
nonbreakable spaces must not be used?

> Best regards.
>
> Yoann
>
> --
> L'antre du farfadet :
> http://le.farfadet.spatial.free.fr/
> Textes, musiques et peintures
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] in XeTeX

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/11 Le Farfadet Spatial :
>
> Hello everybody out there!
>
> On 11/11/2011 15:11, Zdenek Wagner wrote:
>>
>> How does XeTeX convert \language to the rules
>
> As far as I know, the language is a parameter transmitted to packages that
> have different rules depending on the language used. It also affects, for
> instance, the way punctuation is composed.
>
I still do not understand the internal mechanism. I know how
punctuation is handled in French, the category of a few characters is
set to 13 and defined as some macros. But how can XeTeX regognize
whether the space token with category 10 has to be converted to a
nonbreakable space? This is not an easy task on macro level. Consider
the words "louka a pole". then I wish to have "louka a~pole". However,
I cannot convert a space after "a" to nonbreakable, e.g. in "jdu na
pole" both spaces should be breakable. Thus on macro level all
characters would have to be active and redefined as compex macros.
Such processing is possible by encTeX or LuaTeX but not in XeTeX.

>> for inserting
>> nonbreakable spaces after nonsyllabic prepositions in Czech and
>> Slovak?
>
> In some cases, it is possible that XeTeX does not have a way to know that a
> non breakable space is needed. In such cases, use tilda (~).
>
>> How does it know that I am in "verbatim" mode and the
>> nonbreakable spaces must not be used?
>
> When you are using verbatim mode, it means that you ask XeTeX not to do the
> processing it usually does, but just to print the characters that are given
> inside the verbatim environment. Therefore, if you put a unicode symbol in a
> verbatim environment, the standard behaviour is to print this symbol. When
> you put a tilda in verbatim environment, the expected result is a tilda. If
> you do not want a character to appear in a verbatim environment, just do not
> put it in.
>
How does XeTeX recognize a verbatim mode? I can recognize it on a
macro level according to the category of a space but is it also
harcoded somewhere in XeTeX? I think not. And of course I ask XeTeX to
do its work. What I do in verbatim mode is that I select fixed-width
font, change category of a space token to 12 (thus it is not a place
for a line break), set \hypnechar of the font to -1 which means that
words cannot be hypnenated, set the category of the end-of-line
character to 13 and define it as \par. The verbatim mode is NOT
hardwired inside XeTeX, it breaks lines into paragraphs using the same
algorithm but the parameters are set in such a way that no breakable
point in a line exists and thus it is typesed as typed in the tex file
(see The TeXbook for detailed explanation).

>    Best regards.
>
>                                    Yoann
>
> --
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> http://le.farfadet.spatial.free.fr/
> Textes, musiques et peintures
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Re: [XeTeX] in XeTeX

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/12 Ulrike Fischer :
> Am Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:33:20 +0100 schrieb Zdenek Wagner:
>
>> I still do not understand the internal mechanism. I know how
>> punctuation is handled in French, the category of a few characters is
>> set to 13 and defined as some macros. But how can XeTeX regognize
>> whether the space token with category 10 has to be converted to a
>> nonbreakable space?
>
> There was once a discussion about spaces on the xetex list starting
> here:
>
> http://tug.org/mailman/htdig/xetex/2009-March/012480.html
>
> I don't know if the code discussed there led to a package or found
> its way somehow in the format.
>
> I asked in this thread how spaces are handle and got this answer
> from Jonathan:
>
>>>> %% U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE;  
>>>> %%   Unicode char for ~.
>>>> \catcode`00a0=\active
>>>> \def00a0{\nobreakspace}
>
>> Are the definitions necessary? That means how does XeTex handle
>> normally e.g. U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE?  Can  there be a line break
>> before or after this input?
>
> XeTeX has no special built-in knowledge about U+00A0 or the various
> other Unicode space-like characters; it will simply "print" them in
> the current font. Which would be fine, except that some fonts fail
> to support them, in which case you'll get a .notdef glyph. :(
>
> Defining these in a font-independent way using TeX seems like a good
> idea in general; however, care may be needed to make them work
> correctly in all contexts, particularly when they occur in text that
> ends up going to the LaTeX .aux file, etc., or into PDF bookmarks. I
> haven't really looked into this, not being a serious LaTeX user,
> just wondering..
>
Thank you for this answer. For LaTeX the definition of non-breakable
space should be more complex. It is necessary to test the current
definition of \protect, thus it is possible to recognize whether we
are typesetting the text or whether the text is being written
somewhere. I cannot explain it precisely, I would have to look to the
detailed description of \protect. Next we have to test \catcode`\
which tells whether we are in normal or verbatim mode. The definitions
of ZWJ and ZWNJ are wrong for many cases. These characters are used in
Indian scripts for ligature handling. If they are expanded to
\nobreak\hskip, a word boundary will be created in the middle of a
word and hyphenation will not work. Moreover, the glyphs preceding and
following them may need kerning which will be lost. These definitions
can only be used for poorly defined fonts that do not contain them.
Thus these definitions should not appear in the format or in a package
for general use, they are just emergency definitions that may
sometimes help.
>
> --
> Ulrike Fischer
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] in XeTeX

[Zdenek Wagner]

2011/11/12 Petr Tomasek :
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 03:26:36PM +0100, Le Farfadet Spatial wrote:
>>
>> Hello everybody out there!
>>
>> On 11/11/2011 15:11, Zdenek Wagner wrote:
>> >How does XeTeX convert \language to the rules
>>
>> As far as I know, the language is a parameter transmitted to packages
>> that have different rules depending on the language used. It also
>> affects, for instance, the way punctuation is composed.
>>
>> >for inserting
>> >nonbreakable spaces after nonsyllabic prepositions in Czech and
>> >Slovak?
>>
>> In some cases, it is possible that XeTeX does not have a way to know
>> that a non breakable space is needed. In such cases, use tilda (~).
>
> Why not NBSP which is standartized?
>
Because we need a space that can be stretched or shrinked. Glyphs in
fonts have fixed width and an NBSP glyph may not be present in all
fonts. In all formats ~ is active as default and defined (most
probably) as \nobreak\space which is what we need in TeX.

>> >How does it know that I am in "verbatim" mode and the
>> >nonbreakable spaces must not be used?
>>
>> When you are using verbatim mode, it means that you ask XeTeX not to do
>> the processing it usually does, but just to print the characters that
>> are given inside the verbatim environment. Therefore, if you put a
>> unicode symbol in a verbatim environment, the standard behaviour is to
>> print this symbol. When you put a tilda in verbatim environment, the
>> expected result is a tilda. If you do not want a character to appear in
>> a verbatim environment, just do not put it in.
>>
>>     Best regards.
>>
>>                                     Yoann
>>
>> --
>> L'antre du farfadet :
>> http://le.farfadet.spatial.free.fr/
>> Textes, musiques et peintures
>>
>>
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>
> --
> Petr Tomasek <http://www.etf.cuni.cz/~tomasek>
> Jabber: but...@jabbim.cz
>
> 
> EA 355:001  DU DU DU DU
> EA 355:002  TU TU TU TU
> EA 355:003  NU NU NU NU NU NU NU
> EA 355:004  NA NA NA NA NA
> 
>
>
>
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