Coming a little late into this discussion, but I wanted to talk about
a few misconceptions regarding IntelliJ.
JetBrains sells 5 IDEs (one each for Java/Groovy/Scala, php, python,
ruby, and JS/HTML5). http://www.jetbrains.com/products.html In
addition, there are free ones for Java, and a couple o
On 30/07/2013 12:04 PM, Doug Schaefer wrote:
Given there is still a huge majority of users that aren't on Linux, we
need a solution that runs on those other platforms. The more I think
of it and read the discussion here, the more I think it would be great
to have an Eclipse IDE installer/bootst
On 13-07-30 11:54 AM, "Andrew Ross" wrote:
>On 30/07/13 03:09, Krzysztof Daniel wrote:
>> On Tue, 2013-07-30 at 00:36 +, Doug Schaefer wrote:
>>> +1 for that. I've seen (and made for that matter) commercial products
>>> do that. Download a minimal p2 install with an Eclipse application
>>> th
On 30/07/13 03:09, Krzysztof Daniel wrote:
On Tue, 2013-07-30 at 00:36 +, Doug Schaefer wrote:
+1 for that. I've seen (and made for that matter) commercial products
do that. Download a minimal p2 install with an Eclipse application
that drives the rest of the install. We could ask for a list
Hey gang,
Denis has set up the ide-dev mailing list for us. Cross project issues was
really meant for release train project management issues. I think it would be
prudent if we move our IDE focused discussions over there. Feel free to sign up:
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/ide-dev
D
IntelliJ has 2 editions (free and ultimate), NetBeans has 5 edition (Java
SE, Java EE, C/C++, PHP and All), even Microsoft, the king of too many
product editions, has 8 editions of Visual Studio. Eclipse has 12 with one
more on the way, and that's just the packages available from eclipse.org.
I admit that I didnt look much in the Kepler repo if there was a feature for
me. My fear was that there is no single feature that includes everything that
is in the JavaEE Eclipse IDE. And I didnt really know or took the time to look
where I could possibly find it.
If I look at the Kepler repo
On 07/30/2013 04:49 PM, Campo, Christian wrote:
But your point about a bloated UI is worthwhile thinking about really.
Its in the same direction of Doug's and Martin's comment. About either
controlling the UI bloat or being able to switch from J2EE to RCP to
WTP in the same IDE without installi
Out of curiosity, what were the blocking factors that prevented you to
download WTP in your existing install? My thinking is that if someone as
immersed as you with the Eclipse ecosystem can't figure this out, then
there may be something there as well.
On 07/30/2013 04:49 PM, Campo, Christian
The answer is simple. I downloaded 2 IDEs because currently there is NO
Ultimate…. Its NOT that I prefer 2 IDE installations
But your point about a bloated UI is worthwhile thinking about really. Its in
the same direction of Doug's and Martin's comment. About either controlling the
UI bloat or
On 07/30/2013 04:18 PM, Doug Schaefer wrote:
Again, the Uber package would be a way to show how bad things are.
I am pretty sure end-users don't want a package that shows how bad
things are ;)
If one of the contributors wants to see how bad things are, one can
click on the "Select All" button o
On 07/30/2013 04:19 PM, Campo, Christian wrote:
Maybe its also because I do a lot of RCP development and always
download the RCP packages for the Eclipse IDE. Recently I decided to
do some WTP stuff for myself. And the easiest way for me was to
download a WTP Eclipse IDE. So maybe you can say
Just to close the loop on this -- the issue was caused by our load
balancer's keepalive mechanism, which was set to "tcp". Since the
kernel-based tcp stack generally keeps functioning even when a server
hangs itself from an Out Of Memory condition, the load balancer still
sees the server as be
As an alternative we could replace "Standard" with an "Ultimate Java" Edition
(including J2EE, WTP, RCP, Modeling) and see what the download numbers are
next year.
See I totally agree that are places where you want to specialize. My only
problem that we are discussing this among ~ 1000 eclipse
It's funny. The feature bloat and UI confusion mainly stems from projects that
think they are the only thing installed and show their UI always and
everywhere. That's why I am convinced we need a higher organization that
watches these cross project issues and pushes for simplification. Again, th
On 07/30/2013 03:57 PM, Igor Fedorenko wrote:
Are you suggesting forcing webtools on all java developers? Seriously?
I've just had a new look at the Eclipse community survey and since about
45% (~=100% - web dev perventage - RCP percentage - non-Java users
percentage) of Java users are doing so
On 2013-07-30 5:52 PM, Mickael Istria wrote:
And seriously what again is "Standard" vs Java vs Java EE ?
I agree with that point. I'd rather see those 3 ones replaced with a
general "Java and JEE" package. It seems to make total sense with the
current status of Java development use-cases.
On 07/30/2013 03:23 PM, Campo, Christian wrote:
Thats what I am told that "Ultimate" is everything. You can probably
still install more, and IntelliJ does not do C/C++ or other languages
(I believe).
The comparison with IntelliJ may not be very helpful when it comes to
packaging because Intelli
Thats what I am told that "Ultimate" is everything. You can probably still
install more, and IntelliJ does not do C/C++ or other languages (I believe).
So what we only had Java and C++ as the Prime Packages and then have
specialized Packages less prominent lower on the bottom of that page ?
Jus
Are you sure that “Ultimate” actually means everything? To me the difference is
free vs non free.
I think the problem of today’s download page is that it forces you to ask
yourself too many questions. I’m primarily a Java developer so if there was no
other choice I would naturally download the
What about an “ultimate” edition of Eclipse that has all plugins _available_
but not necessarily _activated_ ?
Technically, a base Eclipse with the most relevant / least intrusive plugins
preinstalled , + a downloaded p2 repo in the same download bundle with add-ons
that are installable . Pasca
I am not sure about the disaster thing really. As we are also having the
discussion about other IDE's look at IntelliJ just for a second
(http://www.jetbrains.com/idea/download/index.html)
They have 2 downloads. One that is free and one that is everything.
That makes it at least very simple for
One of the three nodes had hung itself. Oddly, our load balancer was
seeing it as "dead" but insisted on still sending some connections to it.
We'll look into it. I brought the dead node back to life a couple of
hours ago.
Denis
On 07/30/2013 06:19 AM, Wim Jongman wrote:
Connection timeo
On Jul 30, 2013, at 6:13 AM, Konstantin Komissarchik
wrote:
> > so they are actually useful to end-users.
>
> Actually, we have no evidence that users find packages useful. They download
> them because what else is there for them to do. Then if they are experienced,
> they know what’s inclu
On 30/07/2013 7:19 AM, Lars Vogel wrote:
I agree to that, users already find the Eclipse IDE overloaded. If you
have only one download with everything, Eclipse will feel more
overloaded and bloated to users.
Maybe http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/ can show only the 5 most
popular distribut
An all in one IDE is a recipe for disaster and will contribute to even
more FUD around Eclipse.
Also I fail to see which improvements to the user experience can be done
since we would not have a specific persona to focus on.
Instead I think we should focus on improving the integrations between
t
On 07/30/2013 11:56 AM, Mickael Istria wrote:
On 07/30/2013 11:01 AM, Pascal Rapicault wrote:
- On first start, prompt the user with a customization wizard that let the user
add more plugins to his Eclipse. For example, it
could ask questions about the language being used, the SCM, etc.
That w
> A frequent complaint is that Eclipse contains too many things for usage,
so many UI entries make usage more complicated and confusing. I can imagine
that people doing some GMF stuff really don't want WTP at all because it
introduce a lot of new menus, so a GMF user which is used to the Modeling
Connection timeout here as well.
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Ralf Sternberg <
rsternb...@eclipsesource.com> wrote:
> I can't connect to bugzilla - connection timeout.
>
> Ralf
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Daniel Megert
> wrote:
>
>> Works fine so far from Zurich this morning.
> so they are actually useful to end-users.
Actually, we have no evidence that users find packages useful. They download
them because what else is there for them to do. Then if they are
experienced, they know what's included and how to install the missing
pieces. If not, they thrash on forums w
+1
The vanilla Welcome page is pretty empty. It could be rearranged so
that the Welcome and Customization Wizard teaser appeared together.
Regards
Ed Willink
On 30/07/2013 10:56, Mickael Istria
wrote:
On 07/
On 07/30/2013 11:01 AM, Pascal Rapicault wrote:
- On first start, prompt the user with a customization wizard that let
the user add more plugins to his Eclipse. For example, it could ask
questions about the language being used, the SCM, etc.
That would be an interesting approach and a good alter
On 07/30/2013 12:35 AM, Konstantin Komissarchik wrote:
Would user experience be better if there was only one Eclipse package
on the main download site that had pretty much everything that's in
the aggregated repository?
I really don't think so.
Packages are a good way to start which include
Packages are good because they provide a nice starting point for the
user since they aggregate the most common features together (e.g. Java
or Java EE).
I think we could improve the situation by:
- Getting rid of some of the obscure / too narrow focused packages.
- On first start, prompt the us
On 07/30/2013 09:09 AM, Krzysztof Daniel wrote:
I'm very skeptical about P2 in the downloader. It was created in the
past (http://wiki.eclipse.org/Equinox_p2_Installer) and never made
into real world. AFAIK it would suffer from the same issues as regular
P2 - does require java to be pre-downloa
Yes, many builds seem to fail for that reason. Yesterday I've reopened
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=367491 but seen no reaction since.
Cheers
/Eike
http://www.esc-net.de
http://thegordian.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/eikestepper
Am 30.07.2013 09:56, schrieb Tom Schin
I can't connect to bugzilla - connection timeout.
Ralf
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Daniel Megert wrote:
> Works fine so far from Zurich this morning.
>
> Dani
>
>
> From:Tom Schindl
> To:cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org
> Date:30.07.2013 10:03
> Subject:
Works fine so far from Zurich this morning.
Dani
From: Tom Schindl
To: cross-project-issues-dev@eclipse.org
Date: 30.07.2013 10:03
Subject:Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Bugzilla hanging?
Sent by:cross-project-issues-dev-boun...@eclipse.org
for bugzilla is hanging as
for bugzilla is hanging as well.
Tom
On 30.07.13 09:08, Eike Stepper wrote:
> I didn't have any problems with Bugzilla today.
>
> Cheers
> /Eike
>
>
> http://www.esc-net.de
> http://thegordian.blogspot.com
> http://twitter.com/eikestepper
>
>
>
> Am 30.07.2013 08:47, schrieb Henrik:
>>
> Started by timer
> Building remotely on hudson-slave2
> Checkout:efxclipse-runtime-1.x-nightly /
> /opt/buildhomes/hudsonBuild/workspace/efxclipse-runtime-1.x-nightly -
> hudson.remoting.Channel@51fe358a:hudson-slave2
> Using strategy: Default
> Last Built Revision: Revision b4f1a14c19a7a61bf1c
On Tue, 2013-07-30 at 00:36 +, Doug Schaefer wrote:
> +1 for that. I've seen (and made for that matter) commercial products
> do that. Download a minimal p2 install with an Eclipse application
> that drives the rest of the install. We could ask for a list of
> languages or platforms they want t
I didn't have any problems with Bugzilla today.
Cheers
/Eike
http://www.esc-net.de
http://thegordian.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/eikestepper
Am 30.07.2013 08:47, schrieb Henrik:
Bugzilla seems to be unresponsive for a while this morning (Git and Hudson seem
to work).
Is anybody els
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