Vance said:
I never said Judaism was a race, you had better read the string
again, Judaism is the religion practiced by the Jewish people in general
and
various others that choose to accept it.
This is not what you've said, but doesn't matter.
I was a fool by getting into this particular thing a
to wish to convey.
Vance Wood.
- Original Message -
From: "arielabramovich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "lute list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: State of Lut
rofl
-Original Message-
From: Roman Turovsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 8:11 PM
To: Vance Wood; lute list
Subject: Re: State of Lutenet (was Size of the lute world)
> Sorry Roman again you are wrong, Bonsai is not an ethnic group within a
> gr
Dear Vance,
you have the official and easiest explanation for the
holocaust (you're missing a few important elements, I would recommend you
some serious historians rather than Hollywood movies), and I insist:
according to serious researchers, Judaism is not a race. But do not worry,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "lute list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: State of Lutenet (was Size of the lute world)
> No, he tossed it out openly, if it is true why should he be ashamed of the
> circumstances.
>
> Vance Wood.
&g
At 07:06 PM 12/11/2003 -0800, Vance Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>JEWISH IS A RACE, Judaism is a religion.
By definition yes. Practically, it's a difficult case to make. There is no
direct racial affinity between a Yemenite or a Falasha (Ethiopian), and
Moishe Rabinovich from Brooklyn, or Ig
> As far as the Third Riche was
> concerned religion or philosophy had nothing to do with how "The Jews" were
> dealt with.
So Nouveau Riche must be the Forth Reich...
RT
__
Roman M. Turovsky
http://turovsky.org
http://polyhymnion.org
> Sorry Roman again you are wrong, Bonsai is not an ethnic group within a
> group of trees, Bonsai is a method where by any tree from any back ground
> can be grown as a bonsai. Bonsai means tree in a pot, loosely translated.
> I have been growing bonsai for nearly fifty years and some of that as
quot; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: State of Lutenet (was Size of the lute world)
> Vance Wood at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > JEWISH IS A RACE, Judaism is a religion. I am dumb struck that you do
not
> > understand that.
>
PROTECTED]>; "lute list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: State of Lutenet (was Size of the lute world)
> > I AM NOT THE ONE WHO KEEPS ASKING ME THE QUESTIONS. I don't care if MT
is a
> > Druid. However he used the
Vance Wood at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> JEWISH IS A RACE, Judaism is a religion. I am dumb struck that you do not
> understand that.
> During the Holocaust The Jews were persecuted because of their race not
> their religion.
That's pretty much how Goebbels put it. More objective observers attr
> I AM NOT THE ONE WHO KEEPS ASKING ME THE QUESTIONS. I don't care if MT is a
> Druid. However he used the term Jewish after the discussion where he used
> the term Nazi. He tossed out the Jewish family ties as a defense to his
> calling MO a Nazi, in much the same way a racist, in defense of hi
TECTED]>
To: "lute list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: State of Lutenet (was Size of the lute world)
> Vance,
> if you know very well that doesn't really matter what's the
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, arielabramovich wrote:
> ... but I don't think that's something interesting to talk about it
> here.
I think off-topic discussions should be allowed sometimes.
For example, suppose 99.9% of lutenists had heard a ghost. This would be
interesting, but one could never discover
Vance,
if you know very well that doesn't really matter what's the religion, race
or political filiation of the family of Mr Thames (or any other member), why
do you carry on with this? Didn't you want this thing to stop? Weren't you
the one who recommended not to express ideas that doesn't have to
]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: State of Lutenet (was Size of the lute world)
>
> > Christian is not a race or family of people, Jewish is, though it is
> > possible to convert to Judaism doing so does not make you genetically a
> > person of Jewish back
> Dear Roman:
>
> I disagree, and, I agree. In some circles this term has come to mean as
> you have described, in other circles, especially where there is a Jewish
> back ground haunted by memories of the holocaust, you and Michael are
> totally off base. I can think of no four letter word,
They have to listen to this neo
nazi bastard all the time,
>
>>>
>>> You are going much too far.
>>> I admire Mr. Ophee for his patience.
>
>> Bernd, take it from an " MO expert", what he has is not patience. He
>> actually seems to derive pleasure from ill-will he causes.
>
> Quite o
> Christian is not a race or family of people, Jewish is, though it is
> possible to convert to Judaism doing so does not make you genetically a
> person of Jewish back ground, that is what the holocaust was all about if
> you forget your history. MT made the statement, and tossed it out on t
AIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: State of Lutenet (was Size of the lute world)
> My brother is Christian, but I'm not... what's so strange about that? :)
>
> Vance Wood wrote:
> > How can your sister be Jewish and you are not? Or are you
It doesn't make any difference, I wouldn't worry about that.
How can your sister be Jewish and you are not? Or are you referring to
> choosing the Jewish faith of her husband?
ginal Message -
From: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "lute list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Michael Thames"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: State of Lutenet (was Size of the lute world)
> How can your
chael Thames
Luthier
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
Site design by Natalina Calia-Thames
- Original Message -
From: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "lute list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: State of Lutenet (wa
;Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: State of Lutenet (was Size of the lute world)
> Vance wrote,
> conservative as a Nazi. Personally I am conservative and I consider the
tag
> Nazi as an insult. If you wish I could return the
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
"arielabramovich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: State of Lutenet (was Size of the lute world)
> My sister and brother in law are both Jewish. My remark was not directed
> towards any specific race, and I think
icalGuitars.com
Site design by Natalina Calia-Thames
- Original Message -
From: "arielabramovich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "lute list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 4:20 PM
Subje
Dear Vance,
regardless of whether I find the whole thing (argument)
to be fine or not, I'd love to mention that part of my family was also
exterminated by the Nazis in the WWII, and I clearly see that in the context
the word (nazi) had little to do with it's original meaning.
I
Dear Vance,
regardless of whether I find the whole thing (argument)
to be fine or not, I'd love to mention that part of my family was also
exterminated by the Nazis in the WWII, and I clearly see that in the context
the word (nazi) had little to do with it's original meaning.
I
Dear Roman, hello all,
>>> They have to listen to this neo
>>> nazi bastard all the time,
>>
>> You are going much too far.
>> I admire Mr. Ophee for his patience.
> Bernd, take it from an " MO expert", what he has is not patience. He
> actually seems to derive pleasure from ill-will he causes.
"Nazi" should be reserved for someone wearing a swastika. This has actually
come up before on this list, when someone (probably me) took exception to
the use of "early music nazis"
Vance Wood at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> It seems to me that those who come from a
> Liberal/Socialist point of vie
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
Site design by Natalina Calia-Thames
- Original Message -
From: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "lute list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: State of Lutenet (was Size of the lute world)
> Dear Roman:
&g
level.
Vance Wood.
- Original Message -
From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Bernd Haegemann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "LUTE-LIST" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: State of Lutenet (was Size
Thanks, Howard. That's really quite funny.
Stewart McCoy.
- Original Message -
From: "Howard Posner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "lute list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: State of Lutenet (was Size of the lute w
Howard,
*
BTW, what is a "roach assumption"? Is this a characterization of
methodology, or of substances that affected your sobriety in making it? Or
some rule of thumb about the visibility of actual visible cockroaches to
hidden ones?
*
Roman gives, in another message, an estimate of 4 to 1 for
> Music is music, and that is our topic. Some of the finest music written has
> been for one god or another, the particular choice doesn't change the music.
> I could write a piece honoring the seventh avenue subway, and if it were a
> good piece with lasting musical value it might last an eternity
> I am going to take a risk. There have been comments among us about specific
> religious associatians. And specifically a comment that M.O. insulted
> Sephardim. Well then, is M.O. an Ashkenazi conducting an internal
> confrontation? He says he has Sephardic family, but who knows what that is.
> B
>> They have to listen to this neo
>> nazi bastard all the time,
>
> You are going much too far.
>
> Please read your statements carefully before you send
> them to the world.
> I admire Mr. Ophee for his patience.
> B.H.
Also:
Bernd,
In the States word "nazi" is now divorced from its original me
>> They have to listen to this neo
>> nazi bastard all the time,
>
> You are going much too far.
> Please read your statements carefully before you send
> them to the world.
> I admire Mr. Ophee for his patience.
> B.H.
Bernd, take it from an " MO expert", what he has is not patience. He
actually
>> The funny thing is that old postings in those flame wars are nowhere as
>> interesting as they seemed at the time..
> I'm afraid they weren't as interesting as all that at the time, Roman.
> What's interesting (or, for that matter, persuasive) to the writer in the
> heat of combat is a f
Roman Turovsky at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The funny thing is that old postings in those flame wars are nowhere as
> interesting as they seemed at the time..
I'm afraid they weren't as interesting as all that at the time, Roman.
What's interesting (or, for that matter, persuasive) to th
Michael Thames wrote:
> They have to listen to this neo
> nazi bastard all the time,
You are going much too far.
Please read your statements carefully before you send
them to the world.
I admire Mr. Ophee for his patience.
B.H.
Matanya,
You are quite right that the issues of publishers, socialists and rip offs
are public matters. But one does have to define the nature of a public
forum. A list server (listserv in old computer speak) is a community of
people with a common interest, and when particular interests within tha
hee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: State of Lutenet (was Size of the lute world)
> Matanya,
>
> Please address this issue privately with RT.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> On Sunday, December 7, 2003,
Am 7 Dec 2003 um 20:05 hat Michael Thames geschrieben:
>By the way, you think we have it bad on the lute list. We should
>be
> thankful were not guitarists. They have to listen to this neo nazi
> bastard all the time, as many of them tell me he completely dominates
> their list, with no
Thames
Luthier
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
Site design by Natalina Calia-Thames
- Original Message -
From: "Matanya Ophee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: State of Lutenet (was Size of the lute world
At 05:28 PM 12/7/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Matanya,
>
>Please address this issue privately with RT.
I am sorry, but the issue of publishers being ripped off by socialist do
gooders is not a personal matter. It is a public issue, and as a publisher
yourself it should concern you too. If you do not
Matanya,
Please address this issue privately with RT.
Thanks
On Sunday, December 7, 2003, at 03:57 PM, Matanya Ophee wrote:
> At 03:33 PM 12/7/2003 -0500, Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>> Then MO proceeded to insult Sephardim, and I took an exception to that
>
>
> Interesting
At 03:33 PM 12/7/2003 -0500, Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Then MO proceeded to insult Sephardim, and I took an exception to that
Interesting perception. Me insulting Sephardim. My brother in law is a
Sephardi, my son in law is a Sephardi and my four grand children are
Sephardi. S
At 03:33 PM 12/7/2003 -0500, Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The "truce" more or less lasted until Doug Smith's "campaign" against
>Sautscheck.
Thank you for confirming the reason and the rationale for your anti-MO
abusive demagoguery.
Matanya Ophee
Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
1240 Club
> 3) Even within the recent flames, there seems to be a historical subtext that
> is keeping them fanned.
> The latest really seemed to start innocently enough with a reasonable question
> about the legality of
> posting scans of a manuscript you buy and a non-inflammatory answer from the
> publish
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