RE: (313) and now - a cheeky question (2nd re-post)
I think the big irritating thing about the electro "revival" is that the fashion oriented way people get all concerned about it being a trend in the first place. let me put it this way-there isn't anything stopping the producers, djs, and would be fans of Acid house to go make some acid house records and mixes and parties pretty much whenever. why for a revival to happen this year or next year or any year? go do it! look, I realize I'm a bit of a "DJ Smorgasbord", so maybe this won't impress anyone, but I found a really old Acid house record that I was mixing in with my "electroclash" mix JUST BECAUSE IT SOUNDED GOOD. peep it at about 31-34 minutes in- http://www.bfamilyrecords.com/mixes/meta/extralongshortbusmix.ram you know, acid is just the sound of a 303- a tool for writing music. why does there have to be all this codified fashion crap. whats the big deal if someone where to make an electro track with an acid bassline? oh the horror! p.s. the new Osbourn track "Shift" in Ghostly/Spectral's State of the Union EP is the phattest retro acid/jackin' track I've heard in forever when the acid kicks in at the break... h -- Original Message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:08:24 -0400 (EDT) >who's to say that the acid house revival has to be the UK version? > > > >On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, rob wrote: > >> >> The big Issue here is are we in a true state of an "Acid House Revival". >> I don't think so and I don't think we've ever seen one!! I love all of the >> early 80's work i.e. Detroit Techno, Chicago House, New York Garage, Acid >> and all the other one offs that made up the UK Acid House Scene. That is all >> I've loved and I don't listen to anything else if I'm honest, cause I don't >> "feel" it! I live very close to London have been to Back to 89 parties and >> have been to where Placid plays real Old Acid Sets. but it is very rare >> that a club plays old "Acid House" sets. I also know that in Leeds a small >> club opened and closed quite quickly cause of poor turn outs for old Acid. >> Revival means reawakening and there is NO WAY that this beast has opened >> it's eyes yet!! >> >> The other point is just because I/anyone else choose to play "Acid House" >> because I love it does not mean that I'm trying to start a revival. I just >> want to let it be heard to a new generation... if 1000's of them think is >> the best thing that they have ever heard and start wearing bright coloured >> hooded tops and pom pom hats, dungarees and timberland and shouting >> "Accciiieeedd!!!" at the tops of there voice, and carry it on for a year or >> two, then maybe. maybe, that's when Acid House will be awake once more! >> Until then I think it's just being tickled. >> >> > > - Original Message - >> > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > > >> > > > unfortunately- i doubt acid will get huge in the way electro has. but, >> i >> > > > do recall hearing about someone in nyc trying to start a night called >> > > > hacienda (i think it failed) >> > >> > Or perhaps fortunately... Treasure the magic and the mystery... >> > >> >> I do hate revivals (sorry) -- it's just because I live in a *constant* >> state of finding out about music that has been around for ages, and >> should be celebrated. As a society we are sick with nostalgia, and while >> it might be good in terms of celebrating artists who genuinely deserve >> it, I just think revivals are a bit lame. >> >> I read a great quote from Mad Mike a few years ago, someone asked him >> about the electro revival, (now, which one? See?) and he said 'Electro >> never went away.' I thought 'Too f*ckin right mate.' >> >> Anyway, just my opinion! >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Andrew >> >> (PS. Is there a swear filter on 313? The last two tries at this didn't >> work... I know there's been problems lately tho. Maybe the admins need >> to look at their mailserver?) >> >> > Free 20MB Web Site Hosting and Personalized E-mail Service! Get It Now At Doteasy.com http://www.doteasy.com/et/
RE: (313) 3rd wave djing
>> That's not very "ghetto" either Marc! ;) > >SSS !!! [don't want peeps on ghettotech.de to find out ;) ] TOO LATE MOFOS!!! >The ghetto version would involve connecting [stolen] decks to a [stolen] BMW >accelerator pedal or something ;) Hey, that's a great idea! ;) look, the main thing to remember about "ghetto" DJ's is that they exploit the technology available to them (i.e. Scratch mixers/Technics 1200's) to a certain outer limit. maybe 5, 10, 15 years from now, the future equivalent of a ghettotech DJ will be using laptops or iPods or whatever is commonly used and readily available. How will they do with the technology to distinguish themselves from the rest? a) they will master all the techniques used by any kinds of DJs from the entire realm of 3rd wave Djs (just like ghettotech dj's take from hip hop, techno, and etc) b) they will focus on rocking the party by prioritizing accessability (including traditional funk bassline motifs, humor, and in your face vocal human presence) over pious futurism. Free 20MB Web Site Hosting and Personalized E-mail Service! Get It Now At Doteasy.com http://www.doteasy.com/et/
(313) Waveless DJing
- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Brendan Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Mann, Ravinder [CCS]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 2:52 PM Subject: RE: (313) 3rd wave djing > this is what BMG (Ecotmorph) has been doing for about a year now. > Definatly the way to go. Eggzactly. I'm sure anyone who stuck around at Cannonball this year will agree. Brendan (of Ectomorph, not Brendan of Brelson) blew the roof off the place using Ableton and an Evolution controller. His set must've lasted over 2 hours, and covered such an obscene amount of ground with a fluidity I've almost never heard. I was actually quite jealous, even if it was all sequenced in advance (i don't know for sure that it was, but since he didn't use headphones I assume it must've been). I've always thought DJ's make too much of 'reacting to a crowd', when really it's a matter of having the right crowd for the assembled lineup. Once this bit is accounted for, it's all a matter of execution, and then *exceeding* your limits with what you hope to do - regardless of whether the set is fully, partially or not planned. I hear people bitch about how the tunes are more important than the mixing, and God knows I don't want to reignite that reductive debate. The point is that the tunes are the point of departure - they will always be the building blocks of a set and we've covered this topic to death twelve times over. The DJ either presents them unobstructed, completely hoses up the presentation, or arranges them in a way that the sequencing *moves the dancefloor*. This can be accomplished though trickery, long mixes or just a good sense of direction, but hopefully, a masterful Dj will be fluent in all aspects and employ each accordingly. [Excuse a bit of editorialisation, but this is what I think Mills has regained so well in the last year or so]. At any rate, if you have a DJ's ear then the records map themselves out for you, allowing space for creativity where applicable, and you figure that out by trial and error in advance, or you intuit it as you go, feeding off the crowd. My point is that there is very little difference in crowd reaction when either is done well because 90% of even the most educated crowds aren't paying attention, don't care, or are open-minded to any tools a respected DJ wants to use. When Ron Trent played at least 25% of his 4-hour set from CD @ the Works @ DEMF 2002 no one said a word. But what reinforces this the most was watching Brendan (of Ectomorph, not Brendan of Brelson) pull it off at Cannonball. I would be really surprised if anyone in attendance disageed, and I would love to hear everyone who was there chime in with their impression, because it is (sort of) something new and I think it could change a lot of pretentions about planned sets. I would wager that most of the sets that people love the most are planned. Choose to believe it or not, most touring DJ's operate with a very simlar selection of tunes from gig-to-gig while they are on the road. It is a logistical imposibility to do something different in every port when playing a longer slot (assuming you only have vinyl), and when you're only as good as your last gig, repeating things that work makes sense - especially when your audience could never know you've done it before. When people bitch about Mills repeating his sets, I don't think they realize how common this is. To tie this back into Brendan of Brelson, y'all should take note that he has been making wicked mixes for ages the manual way, and has chosen to give another mode a try. Both have their value. Hopefully more DJ's will come out of their caves and use the tools that are available to push things in new directions. This has already been happening a lot over the last 3 or 4 years. I have been using CD players since the first Denon's came out (~94). It wasn't until I learned how to mix with the pitch slider that I gave them credibility again after a long break from them, but now I am really excited about using CD's in my sets. I have a ton of stuff from the early-mid '90s that I only have on CD, and I think it's criminally negligent to retain that for myself. It also masquerades as my answer to Final Scratch, since I don't give a sh*t about touching my records (versus the interface on a Pioneer CDJ-500S) 97% of the time, and I can burn anything I want for $.25 rather than carting around a latop to that end. Anyway, I'm sure I've made my point 12 times over by now, but I had to chime in and say that this is nothing new even if it seems like it (most of us probably don't even notice how it's been creeping up), and it's crazy this should result in 110 emails in less than 24 hours. It's common, you better get used to it, and it will ultimately improve the quality of performance. DJing has never had it so good. Cheers! Tristan === Text/Mixes: http://www.phonopsia.co.uk Music: http://www.mp313.com Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) Waveless DJing
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, Phonopsia wrote: > agree. Brendan (of Ectomorph, not Brendan of Brelson) blew the roof off the > place using Ableton and an Evolution controller. His set must've lasted over > 2 hours, and covered such an obscene amount of ground with a fluidity I've > almost never heard. I was actually quite jealous, even if it was all > sequenced in advance (i don't know for sure that it was, but since he didn't > use headphones I assume it must've been). > Um, it could have been more on the fly than at first glance. Since Ableton can start tracks on beat, and handle the beatmatching, and you can see what you're triggering, you wouldn't need to mess with cuing and beatmatching. Drop a track in, bring the levels up and bob's yer uncle.
Re: (313) Waveless DJing
- Original Message - From: "Kent williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "313 list" <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 3:01 AM Subject: Re: (313) Waveless DJing > On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, Phonopsia wrote: > > agree. Brendan (of Ectomorph, not Brendan of Brelson) blew the roof off the > > place using Ableton and an Evolution controller. His set must've lasted over > > 2 hours, and covered such an obscene amount of ground with a fluidity I've > > almost never heard. I was actually quite jealous, even if it was all > > sequenced in advance (i don't know for sure that it was, but since he didn't > > use headphones I assume it must've been). > > > Um, it could have been more on the fly than at first glance. Since > Ableton can start tracks on beat, and handle the beatmatching, and you > can see what you're triggering, you wouldn't need to mess with cuing and > beatmatching. Drop a track in, bring the levels up and bob's yer uncle. Sure. It could've been, but I think the fluidity discounts that. I could be wrong though. Stranger things have happened. Tristan === Text/Mixes: http://www.phonopsia.co.uk Music: http://www.mp313.com Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) Richie Hawtin "k"
What do you mean for no other reason? How a name looks and sounds is pretty important when designing a techno label. One reason KMS works is because K is at the beginning and M makes a good foundation giving K and S balance. I can see why Richie Hawtin used the letter K in Plastikman, because it doesn't look that bad with the style of font he is using. I like more simplistic Industrial design looking label designs like the old Transmat label which consisted of a Eurostyle font and logo. on 6/13/03 6:07 PM, Matthew Mangold at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In your original post, you write: > > "The label name KMS works well using the letter k especially in caps, it's a > nice short abbreviated word, the letter k is not being used as a clever > substitution in a word." > > therefore, "it works" because those are his initials, and for no other > reason-- regardless of whether or not it reflects proper "design > aesthetics." > > Matthew
Re: (313) Richie Hawtin "k"
What do you mean for no other reason? How a name looks and sounds is pretty important when designing a techno label. on 6/13/03 6:07 PM, Matthew Mangold at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In your original post, you write: > > "The label name KMS works well using the letter k especially in caps, it's a > nice short abbreviated word, the letter k is not being used as a clever > substitution in a word." > > therefore, "it works" because those are his initials, and for no other > reason-- regardless of whether or not it reflects proper "design > aesthetics." > > Matthew
Re: (313) 3rd wave djing (manual)
On Sat, 2003-06-14 at 04:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > good questions: > > > > someone write a "how to dj with ableton" manual! > > > > > dont know if this has been replied to? > but there is one. > it is on the ableton website. > > www.ableton.com > > it is in pdf format. > if you have a problem finding it or it is gone. > i have a copy of it somewhere in my archives. > dont know if it's copyrighted? > but if its not i could post it somewhere. It can be found over here: http://www.ableton.com/index.php?main=tutorials&sub=dj-tutorial
Re: (313) Richie Hawtin "k"
-- Original Message -- From: spw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >What do you mean for no other reason? >How a name looks and sounds is pretty important when designing a techno >label. >One reason KMS works is because K is at the beginning and M makes a good >foundation giving K and S balance. i swear to god man, you must put tons of effort into being as irritating as you are. tom andythepooh.com
Re: (313) Waveless DJing
-- Original Message -- From: "Phonopsia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >I've always thought DJ's make too much of 'reacting to a crowd', when really >it's a matter of having the right crowd for the assembled lineup. Once this >bit is accounted for, it's all a matter of execution, and then *exceeding* >your limits with what you hope to do - regardless of whether the set is >fully, partially or not planned. i definitely disagree. when i play records, i bring a variety of sounds. if one thing in particular is making people react, then i run with it. i remember one gig i started out by playing some carl craig, dan bell, and recloose records. people really werent feeling it too much so i moved into more broken beat territory, then when i started dropping the ragga influenced broken beat and 2-step, heads went wild. so i kept playing that kind of stuff. had i rocked strictly the 313 style techno, the reaction and satisfaction with my set would have dropped a ton. >a masterful Dj will be fluent in all aspects and >employ each accordingly. its always a good idea to bring as many tools as you can to the table. recently my sets have been consisting of alot of vocal tunes or songs that progress within their own structure, so i havent had much diversity in my mixing style. when im rocking the strictly instrumental tracks though, i cut between the records a good bit to increase the energy before dropping in a big tune. >When Ron Trent played at least 25% of his 4-hour set from CD @ >the Works @ DEMF 2002 no one said a word. titonton played in pittsburgh last night. he played pretty much a record then a cd. aside from one skipping CD, no one would have noticed that at least half his set was CDs. as a matter of fact, they were just happy to hear some really exclusive tunes. > I would wager that most of the sets that people love >the most are planned. Choose to believe it or not, most touring DJ's operate >with a very simlar selection of tunes from gig-to-gig while they are on the >road. It is a logistical imposibility to do something different in every >port when playing a longer slot (assuming you only have vinyl), and when >you're only as good as your last gig, repeating things that work makes >sense - especially when your audience could never know you've done it >before. When people bitch about Mills repeating his sets, I don't think they >realize how common this is. obviously if youre on tour and youre not one of the huge trance guys that bring 10,000 crates with them, youre limited by the size of your record box as to what you can play. that said, the order in which you play records has alot to do with the context in which theyre seen. you can move a set from a high point to a low point, from a low point to a high point, from a low point to a high point back to a low point, etc etc all with the same selection of records. plus, records all have b sides or alternative mixes that you can play to switch things up. if i were going on tour for an extended period of time, i would make an effort to bring as many versatile records as i could to ensure i wouldnt get bored playing the same thing every night. >To tie this back into Brendan of Brelson, y'all should take note that he has >been making wicked mixes for ages the manual way, and has chosen to give >another mode a try. Both have their value. Hopefully more DJ's will come out >of their caves and use the tools that are available to push things in new >directions. It's common, you better get used to it, and it will >ultimately improve the quality of performance. DJing has never had it so >good. Cheers! im totally into people using different technology to their advantage. as long as the music doesnt suffer because of it, i dont care what they use really. sh*t, many genres of music have been ruined by crap knock-off producers putting out bad records on vinyl. i dont think a good tunes suffers from its chosen medium. bad tunes are always bad. tom andythepooh.com
(313) [313] Theo Parrish... "contemporhythms" track list.
hi folks. can anyone direct me to a track listing for the "contemporhythms" mixes? cheers, lrh
Re: (313) Waveless DJing
>I've always thought DJ's make too much of 'reacting to a crowd', when really >it's a matter of having the right crowd for the assembled lineup. i definitely disagree... Whenever I see debates like this (to crowd or not to crowd) I think of an anecdote from my friend Dean who recalls the time that he DJ-ed before some band (at the time a "name"...Dead or Alive - as you might have guessed, this was a few decades ago). His DJ booth was up a ladder, way over the floor - which made it a drag to lug up the record case. He was tired of the gig (he had a residency there), tired of lugging the records and feeling spunky, so he decided to try something different. I should add here that Dean always was a bit off the beaten path - at this stage he was the only DJ I knew who specialized in (his own terms) "25 cent cha-cha records". He determined not to play anything he couldn't find en route that night. He stopped at a Salvation Army outlet and found the old Joe Tex "I Gotcha" and Deep Purple's "Smoke on the Water" 45s. Instead of playing the tape which Pete Burns *demanded* of him, Dean proceeded to play both of those songs (only) at varying speeds for the whole evening. I guess that lands on the former extreme of the spectrum :-). jeff ps BTW, this is the same Dean who owns the Buddha Bar on 8 mile. Still hilarious.
Re: (313) Waveless DJing
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, Phonopsia wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Kent williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Um, it could have been more on the fly than at first glance. Since > > Ableton can start tracks on beat, and handle the beatmatching, and you > > can see what you're triggering, you wouldn't need to mess with cuing and > > beatmatching. Drop a track in, bring the levels up and bob's yer uncle. > > > Sure. It could've been, but I think the fluidity discounts that. I could be > wrong though. Stranger things have happened. > Well, I know it's easy enough to 'DJ' on the fly in Live, and very few people have as much experience doing stuff live as Brendan.
Re: (313) Re: dan curtin on downlow
On vrijdag, jun 13, 2003, at 18:34 Europe/Amsterdam, Minto George wrote: not sure if jt already said something since I am on the digest and get all the posts at the beginning or end of the day. The Dan Curtin 12" on dL will probably be released this July (1st or 2nd week) or in the fall. Right now it's getting pretty scary for a lot of us trying to sell records. economic hard times affect us all. It should be an enjoyable release for those who are used to the top quality productions by Dan. If you've been used to the recent mediocre Purveyors of Fine Funk stuff being churned out by him, do not be alarmed...this is great music by Dan and the kind of stuff you know he's capable of. I must say that i am really enjoying this one, and just like minto said, if you love his earlier work on Peacfrog you will love this one! Expect the typical Dan Curtin rhythms, and some jazzy sounds on top! Definitely one of my favourite Dan Curtin release in a while! KJ i bet at least one list member can, but i just want to see some music discussion on the list! I'm for that too! more music...less bs - minto __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) Waveless DJing
i guess i never got over the part where laptops became accepted parts of performance. z yuck. how excited can you get watching somebody stare straight ahead at a screen clicking a button -- im not arguing anything crazy like its not really playing "live", it's just really really boring as far as performances go (unless you got some other stuff going on up there too). i see people staring at laptops everyday, how am i supposed to go out at night and get excited by that. i make music and understand they're probably doing lotsa stuff, i dont care it's still nothing to look at. it's nothing new, but the more and more i see it the more boring and samey and mystical (whats on that screen?) electronic music performance seems to be. i see it as a really negative trend, as convenient etc as they are for performers... i also dont know what to think of this whole automatic perfect beatmatching thing. less and less human... the whole process of performing less and less physical, tangible...more complicated, cerebral, expensive, elite... i know there are lots of tech-savvy people on here who dont agree at all, thats ok... jt _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: (313) Waveless DJing
-- Original Message -- From: "J. T." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >i guess i never got over the part where laptops became accepted parts of >performance. >z > >yuck. how excited can you get watching somebody stare straight ahead at a >screen clicking a button -- im not arguing anything crazy like its not >really playing "live", it's just really really boring as far as performances >go its not like watching someone put a record on a turntable and then play with the pitch until it plays at the same tempo as the other record is the epitome of excitement (theo parrish and titonton are notable exceptions : ). i dont see why the physical movement of the artist is what makes you get into the music. it should be the music that moves you. >i also dont know what to think of this whole automatic perfect beatmatching >thing. less and less human... > >the whole process of performing less and less physical, tangible...more >complicated, cerebral, expensive, elite... the expensive part is just due to the new nature of the technology. look at synthesizers: "real" musicians said things much like "less and less physical, tangible...more >complicated, cerebral, expensive, elite" when synths came out. then 15 years later once synths were cheap and abuseable, the chicago and detroit cats took them and made the music that made you join this list. and now youre taking the same attitude as the old "real" musicians that criticized synths tom andythepooh.com
Re: (313) Waveless DJing
well you're there for the music, not to watch anyone do anything. its annoying to have people stare at you during a set, you're just there to provide the music. imo of course. - Original Message - From: "J. T." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 4:11 PM Subject: Re: (313) Waveless DJing > i guess i never got over the part where laptops became accepted parts of > performance. > z > > yuck. how excited can you get watching somebody stare straight ahead at a > screen clicking a button -- im not arguing anything crazy like its not > really playing "live", it's just really really boring as far as performances > go (unless you got some other stuff going on up there too). i see people > staring at laptops everyday, how am i supposed to go out at night and get > excited by that. i make music and understand they're probably doing lotsa > stuff, i dont care it's still nothing to look at. it's nothing new, but the > more and more i see it the more boring and samey and mystical (whats on that > screen?) electronic music performance seems to be. i see it as a really > negative trend, as convenient etc as they are for performers... > > i also dont know what to think of this whole automatic perfect beatmatching > thing. less and less human... > > the whole process of performing less and less physical, tangible...more > complicated, cerebral, expensive, elite... > > i know there are lots of tech-savvy people on here who dont agree at all, > thats ok... > > jt > > _ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail >
Re: (313) Waveless DJing
it's fun to watch people turn knobs, push sliders, flip vinyl/CDs, mix, bop around, have fun and work their craft, imho :) of course I mean watch, not be one of those people who stands there all night and you wonder if they are just curious or if they are stalkers. heh if you don't wanna be watched, play only in places that have those really high booths or build a people barrier - better yet hire Dennis Hopper (a la Blue Velvet) to keep people from looking. ;) lisa ::) wrote: well you're there for the music, not to watch anyone do anything. its annoying to have people stare at you during a set, you're just there to provide the music. imo of course.
Re: (313) Waveless DJing
its not like watching someone put a record on a turntable and then play with the pitch until it plays at the same tempo as the other record is the epitome of excitement (theo parrish and titonton are exactly, it's NOT. i never realized how much the actual turning of the head, moving of the arms, looking around etc, actually mattered, until i had witnessed performance after performance of people staring straight ahead immobile, doing things? i'm not sure. notable exceptions : ). i dont see why the physical movement of the artist is what makes you get into the music. it should be the music that moves you. because there is a performance aspect when you go "out" to see music. if it's all about the music, then what is the point of performance -- bring in the pre-recorded mixes, and press play on your dats. woohoo. i dont think it's a good thing that many laptop performances, you have no idea whether the performer just hit play or what -- you have to assume they're doing something. there are plenty of people that use laptops well and put on a good performance, use laptops in conjunction with other equipment, but hoorrrdes of people that do not, and the laptop is just becoming standard, and i think it sucks. i prefer what magas did when he played here -- plopped down laptop, hit play, and then jumped around and put on a show -- to someone sitting there behind a screen doing something mysterious. the expensive part is just due to the new nature of the technology. look at synthesizers: "real" musicians said things much like "less and less physical, tangible...more >complicated, cerebral, expensive, elite" when synths came out. yeah yeah but i'm not talking about "real" music, or making that sort of simple argument, i mean duh i am into techno. i'm just talking presentation. a laptop has no moving parts and usually neither do the people using them. it's just simply boring to watch, regardless how it sounds. most dj's are pretty boring to watch too yes but not quite as boring. whatever, it's just my opinion. i dont like the direction electronic music performance is moving. production and performance are seperate arenas so dont get me wrong. then 15 years later once synths were cheap and abuseable, the chicago and detroit cats took them and made the music that made you join this list. and now youre taking the same attitude as the old "real" musicians that criticized synths im not talking about music, but performance. yes you can do great music with laptops and computers i use one too. why are you performing if you cant stand to be watched. yeah i do go out to hear & SEE music, not to stare off into space or socialize. jt _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: (313) Waveless DJing
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, J. T. wrote: > i guess i never got over the part where laptops became accepted parts of > performance. > z > > yuck. how excited can you get watching somebody stare straight ahead at a > screen clicking a button -- im not arguing anything crazy like its not > really playing "live", it's just really really boring as far as performances > go (unless you got some other stuff going on up there too). I'm about to pick up traktor's dj software...so i've got biases But check this out. Back in the day there was a DJ in detroit named Ray Berry. Jeff Mills and Berry were the first tricksters I saw. Berry had this thing where he would scratch with his mouth...then with his shoe. And Mills was (in his hiphop days) quicksilver personified...which is a trick in and of itself. The first few times I saw them, I was blown away. Now? I'm nonplussed. Just give me the MUSIC. DJs to me should blend into the woodwork. Granted, I got extra excited when I saw THeo getting into the groove...but that wasn't because of his tricks, but because of his enthusiasm. I'm pretty sure enthusiasm is portable, regardless of the medium. peace lks
Re: (313) Waveless DJing
-- Original Message -- From: "J. T." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >exactly, it's NOT. i never realized how much the actual turning of the head, >moving of the arms, looking around etc, actually mattered, until i had >witnessed performance after performance of people staring straight ahead >immobile, doing things? i'm not sure. its really up to the integrity of the artist as to whether or not theyre doing anything other than hitting play. a true artist will be blending sounds in and out, resequencing, interacting with his/her music. if the person has no integrity, theyll hit play and get paid. >because there is a performance aspect when you go "out" to see music. if >it's all about the music, then what is the point of performance -- bring in >the pre-recorded mixes, and press play on your dats. really i dont go out to hear music too often because for me it is all about music. i dont need to be entertained, i can entertain myself. i go out to hear music that is being manipulated by someone in particular, i dont care how they manipulate it. >i prefer what magas did when he played here -- plopped >down laptop, hit play, and then jumped around and put on a show -- to >someone sitting there behind a screen doing something mysterious. see, im pretty much against making a spectacle of yourself strictly to get attention. certain people i can definitely vibe off of (amp fiddler @ movement for example) when they put on a show, but they have to have the music to back it. usually i just prefer someone who gets into their music as they interact with it, because their energy is transferred through the speakers when they get into whatever it is theyre doing. ive watched venetian snares, abelcain, and dan doormouse put on absolutely blistering dual computer sets. they felt their stuff, for sure. >yeah yeah but i'm not talking about "real" music, or making that sort of >simple argument, i mean duh i am into techno. i'm just talking >presentation. a laptop has no moving parts and usually neither do the people >using them. it's just simply boring to watch, regardless how it sounds. most >dj's are pretty boring to watch too yes but not quite as boring. whatever, >it's just my opinion. i dont like the direction electronic music performance >is moving. production and performance are seperate arenas so dont get me >wrong. okay, thats a logical line to draw. however i do believe that the importing thing is that the music is being manipulated live. thats what LIVE means to me. live doesnt mean moving around a whole bunch. it means live sound manipulation be it a laptop, a keyboard, or deejaying. >why are you performing if you cant stand to be watched. yeah i do go out to >hear & SEE music, not to stare off into space or socialize. i can (and often times do) just like to sit there and feel the music and the vibe in the room with my eyes closed. tom andythepooh.com
Re: (313) Waveless DJing
> well you're there for the music, not to watch anyone do anything. if i just paid ten bucks you see you i best be getting someone juggling fish or breaking bricks with their heads. personally, i don't 'go there' for the music. if i wanted to listen to the music *I* wanted to listen to, i'd do it in my basement. i come to see someone do something i can't, or haven't thought of. *you* are a performer. that's the 'P' on your 'pa.' playing live is a performance art. do something. if you do anything else feel free to sit at home and do that, and be a producer. if i have to hear 'its all about the music' or 'nothing else matters but the music' one more time i'm going to strangle theakston, if only because theakston leaves close and you live far away. since when was life, and the experience of enjoying it, *just* about your darn ears? > its annoying to have people stare at you during a set, you're just there to > provide the music. then i have a gig for you! my sister is having her wedding in november.
Re: (313) Waveless DJing
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, jayson b wrote: > if i just paid ten bucks you see you i best be getting someone juggling fish > or breaking bricks with their heads. > > personally, i don't 'go there' for the music. if i wanted to listen to the > music *I* wanted to listen to, i'd do it in my basement. i come to see > someone do something i can't, or haven't thought of. > > *you* are a performer. that's the 'P' on your 'pa.' playing live is a > performance art. do something. if you do anything else feel free to sit at > home and do that, and be a producer. Technically, even someone who just carries in their DAT and hits play and stands there staring out at the crowd is 'performing'. I'm not going to take sides in the "it's all about the music" debate, but don't say that someone who stands motionless and stares unblinkingly at a laptop for an hour is any less of a performer than the most visible and energetic of trick djs. They're certainly not as -good- of a performer, but they are covered equally by the definition of the word. I think that this would be a non-issue if people who do, for example, laptop PAs, projected their video output on a screen behind them so you can see what they're doing. It's a lot more difficult giving the crowd something to look at if you're not doing something on a flat horizontal surface. Most performers who don't play records forget this all too often. Now for my personal opinion: Do you have 10kW of sound in your basement? How about a few hundred people? Yeah, I didn't think so. Give me 'Play' on the DAT out in a condusive environment any day over armchair listening. -j -- Rev. Jeffrey Paul-datavibe- [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim:x736e65616b pgp:0x15FA257E phone:8777483467 70E0 B896 D5F3 8BF4 4BEE 2CCF EF2F BA28 15FA 257E
Re: (313) Waveless DJing
-- Original Message -- From: "Rev. Jeffrey Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >I think that this would be a non-issue if people who do, for example, >laptop PAs, projected their video output on a screen behind them so you >can see what they're doing. ive thought of this, but the main drawback that i can think of is that most people wouldnt have any idea what was actually happening. though i guess there are some people who dont understand what the deejay is doing. hmm. >Now for my personal opinion: Do you have 10kW of sound in your basement? >How about a few hundred people? Yeah, I didn't think so. Give me 'Play' >on the DAT out in a condusive environment any day over armchair listening. thats what im saying. i choose what events im going to attend based on the venue and the clientele as well as the performer. tom andythepooh.com
