(313) New edict from RIAA
Just when you thought they couldn't get any more outrageous. http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2006/02/riaa-says-ripping-cds-your-ipod-not-fair-use
Re: (313) New edict from RIAA
this is awesome, theyre just running themselves completely into irrelevence. you just cant get any more stupid than that! On 10/31/07, Thor Teague [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just when you thought they couldn't get any more outrageous. http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2006/02/riaa-says-ripping-cds-your-ipod-not-fair-use
(313) a mix i did for a friend's podcast
http://www.radiohypno.com/2007/10/31/episode-312-103107-guest-mix-thomas-cox/ very techno compared to my usual stuff, check it! tom
RE: (313) New edict from RIAA
Seems to be quite reasonable to me. Widespread use without permission, doesn't establish a precedent - unless a court decides this - one hasn't yet. On the other hand, 'routinely granted' is the key phrase innit? Then to quote from the link: 'If I understand what the RIAA is saying, perfectly lawful means lawful until we change our mind. ' Well, I think you'd have to x Bush by about 29.7 before you reached the political climate in which some authorities thought they could sucessfully go after people ripping CDs for their own use. It's possible, but unlikely I feel. Ken -Original Message- From: Thor Teague [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 October 2007 14:07 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) New edict from RIAA Just when you thought they couldn't get any more outrageous. http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2006/02/riaa-says-ripping-cds-your-ipod-not -fair-use
Re: (313) New edict from RIAA
What makes it not reasonable is that the RIAA has never really been forthcoming that their product is a license, and you are paying for rights. The physical merchandise is almost an aside. Following this train of thought, further pursuit of [likely outlandish] lawsuits for, for instance, recording something off the radio or TV, selling secondhand DVD's CD's, trading mixes, and so on, also becomes reasonable. You could even take it into the realm of home videos, photography, drawings and paintings, pursuing lawsuits that an unlicensed representation of copyrighted material (such as product labels, home movies with the TV or radio running, signage, etc.) constitutes copyright infringement. I feel that if the RIAA were more forthcoming about their intentions and that these scenarios suddenly become both reasonable and plausible when following the train of thought upon which they model their business, and well you think the consumers are rebelling now... I feel pretty confident in saying the copyright-mongers are headed down a slippery slope, and should have stuck to pursuing the litigation that IS justified--namely the unauthorized duplication and sale of other people's work. They may realize this and correct their behavior, or they may make themselves irrelevant and drop dead. (Financially speaking.) That's what copyright law is for. Not for suing 12 year olds and single mothers for twenty times their net worth because they downloaded a god damn brittany spears song. Yeah, sorry bro. It's not reasonable. On 10/31/07, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems to be quite reasonable to me. Widespread use without permission, doesn't establish a precedent - unless a court decides this - one hasn't yet. On the other hand, 'routinely granted' is the key phrase innit? Then to quote from the link: 'If I understand what the RIAA is saying, perfectly lawful means lawful until we change our mind. ' Well, I think you'd have to x Bush by about 29.7 before you reached the political climate in which some authorities thought they could sucessfully go after people ripping CDs for their own use. It's possible, but unlikely I feel. Ken
RE: (313) New edict from RIAA
And you believe that this doom's day scenario is probable? Ken -Original Message- From: Thor Teague [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 October 2007 14:48 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) New edict from RIAA What makes it not reasonable is that the RIAA has never really been forthcoming that their product is a license, and you are paying for rights. The physical merchandise is almost an aside. Following this train of thought, further pursuit of [likely outlandish] lawsuits for, for instance, recording something off the radio or TV, selling secondhand DVD's CD's, trading mixes, and so on, also becomes reasonable. You could even take it into the realm of home videos, photography, drawings and paintings, pursuing lawsuits that an unlicensed representation of copyrighted material (such as product labels, home movies with the TV or radio running, signage, etc.) constitutes copyright infringement. I feel that if the RIAA were more forthcoming about their intentions and that these scenarios suddenly become both reasonable and plausible when following the train of thought upon which they model their business, and well you think the consumers are rebelling now... I feel pretty confident in saying the copyright-mongers are headed down a slippery slope, and should have stuck to pursuing the litigation that IS justified--namely the unauthorized duplication and sale of other people's work. They may realize this and correct their behavior, or they may make themselves irrelevant and drop dead. (Financially speaking.) That's what copyright law is for. Not for suing 12 year olds and single mothers for twenty times their net worth because they downloaded a god damn brittany spears song. Yeah, sorry bro. It's not reasonable. On 10/31/07, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems to be quite reasonable to me. Widespread use without permission, doesn't establish a precedent - unless a court decides this - one hasn't yet. On the other hand, 'routinely granted' is the key phrase innit? Then to quote from the link: 'If I understand what the RIAA is saying, perfectly lawful means lawful until we change our mind. ' Well, I think you'd have to x Bush by about 29.7 before you reached the political climate in which some authorities thought they could sucessfully go after people ripping CDs for their own use. It's possible, but unlikely I feel. Ken
(313) 10th November (next Saturday ) Süd Electronic's Deep House Sessions With Dj Jus Ed , Move D (Live ) ++
Hello everyone ! A heads up regarding our do with Dj Jus Ed Move D next Saturday 10th of November in London . There is just under 50 places left on the £10 concession list . So if you are planning on coming, then do submit your names for that list pronto , to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] full line up details again : Full Line Up : Dj Jus Ed - New York , Connecticut - Exclusive 3 Hour Dj Set - UK Debut ( Underground Quality ) Move D - Heidelberg Germany - 90 minute Long Live Set - ( Source , Workshop , Liebe Detail , Compost , Philpot , Modern Love ) + Residents Lakuti (Süd) Nick Craddock(Süd) Visuals By The Golden Girls : A series of Images Capturing Afro - American - Carribean Life from the 1800's - Now. Date : 10th November 2007 Venue : ELECTROWERKZ , 7 Torrens Street , LONDON , EC1V 1NQ Times : 10 pm - 6am Door Charge : £12/£10 Concessions to Süd's Mailinglist Subscribers . Subscribe By emailing : [EMAIL PROTECTED] infoline : 07853371939 Artists links http://www.undergroundquality.com (Dj Jus Ed ) Catch him live every wednesday on Myhouseyourhouse radio from 12 am - 2 am UK time . http://radio.myhouse-yourhouse.net For all things Move D , Go to : http://www.myspace.com/moufang hope to see you on the 10th November ! Lerato 044(0)7853371939 www.sudelectronic.com www.myspace.com/sudelectroniclabel
Re: (313) New edict from RIAA
And you believe that this doom's day scenario is probable? Well the BPI (UK's RIAA) already shut sites down for hosting mixes. I agree with Tom, if this does go ahead then the music industry as we know it is finished. For better or for worse. All the established big artists are now signing promotion deals (Madonna, Prince) and the recorded music becomes a loss-leader. It's interesting watching this though I have to admit. I don't rely on music to make a living, and I'm not even sure it affects the music that I like that heavily anyway. That's being affected in a whole host of other ways at this point. robin...
Re: (313) New edict from RIAA
In effect, the RIAA is generating a more sophisticated piracy with every step they take. Dramatic irony is the best kind. jeff Well the BPI (UK's RIAA) already shut sites down for hosting mixes. I agree with Tom, if this does go ahead then the music industry as we know it is finished. For better or for worse. All the established big artists are now signing promotion deals (Madonna, Prince) and the recorded music becomes a loss-leader. It's interesting watching this though I have to admit. I don't rely on music to make a living, and I'm not even sure it affects the music that I like that heavily anyway. That's being affected in a whole host of other ways at this point.
(313) have we run out of music?
I don't know why this occurs to me after just coming into the house near midnight after watching Control (which I thought was thrilling) but I guess this is the sort of thing that people sometimes like to gas about on this forum ;-) I keep waiting around for the next exciting new form of music. Maybe I'm getting old and not appreciating what's out there but I've been waiting a while now. OK I'm just saying something peepz on here have said plenty times recently - and I bet others have said down the years as their opinion hardens that what's out there now doesn't match what they remember in their time. However my particular take on a familiar theme this time is: 1. It seems like we can synthesise just about any crazy sound we want now (just take hold of those dots and make a wave any shape we want) or reproduce any naturally occurring sound at will with modest equipment. 2. As far as I know (and this may be a weak point as I'm short on expertise here) is that we've explored and to a certain extent become familiar with most of the world now and there doesn't seem to be any large culture or ethnic group who's music we have yet to hear / be blown away by / magpie some bits of into our own popular music. So is the reason that it seems to me that there's no new ideas about but just the same old being rehashed is that instead of being liberated by all this freedom to produce as we like and all this wealth of sounds from around the world we have to examine that if there's nothing strange and new prodding us along (instruments that sound unlike any we've used yet, a new vibe from another land) we run out of steam a bit? Still I guess not having new instruments didn't stop Berg, Mahler and Schoenberg (or punk - but you could argue that was more of a fashion thing than music that was revolutionary).
Re: (313) have we run out of music?
On 10/31/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I keep waiting around for the next exciting new form of music. Maybe I'm getting old and not appreciating what's out there but I've been waiting a while now. there's lots of new music, it is just largely influenced by an increasingly materialistic society and it does not have appeal to old heads like us, for the most part. OK I'm just saying something peepz on here have said plenty times recently - and I bet others have said down the years as their opinion hardens that what's out there now doesn't match what they remember in their time. something that came from out of nowhere is going to seem more impressive than something youve seen sprout from something that you were aware of at the time. that discontinuity is what makes it seem exciting! However my particular take on a familiar theme this time is: 1. It seems like we can synthesise just about any crazy sound we want now (just take hold of those dots and make a wave any shape we want) or reproduce any naturally occurring sound at will with modest equipment. 2. As far as I know (and this may be a weak point as I'm short on expertise here) is that we've explored and to a certain extent become familiar with most of the world now and there doesn't seem to be any large culture or ethnic group who's music we have yet to hear / be blown away by / magpie some bits of into our own popular music. i have great problems with the lack of nurturing of local scenes/cultures in the internet age as that is where new music comes from in the first place. that is defniitely not going to help new sounds come around in the same way they used to. So is the reason that it seems to me that there's no new ideas about but just the same old being rehashed is that instead of being liberated by all this freedom to produce as we like and all this wealth of sounds from around the world we have to examine that if there's nothing strange and new prodding us along (instruments that sound unlike any we've used yet, a new vibe from another land) we run out of steam a bit? things maybe shouldnt be so hyperaccelerated in the first place? but that seems to be the mindset of so many electronic music people. they just move on to whatever is new and trendy without fully exploring anything. there's alot of room for retro sounds simply because so many of those ideas were never developed to their fullest. Still I guess not having new instruments didn't stop Berg, Mahler and Schoenberg (or punk - but you could argue that was more of a fashion thing than music that was revolutionary). punk was revolutionary musically because it took all the progress that had been made in rock music and tossed it out the window. it was progress by regression, which is what i think is happening now. the most exciting music coming out to me is really lo-fi and poorly produced and just hacked together in any old way. its the dawn of electronic punk, or something. tom
Re: (313) have we run out of music?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : I don't know why this occurs to me after just coming into the house near midnight after watching Control (which I thought was thrilling) but I guess this is the sort of thing that people sometimes like to gas about on this forum ;-) I keep waiting around for the next exciting new form of music. Maybe I'm getting old and not appreciating what's out there but I've been waiting a while now. OK I'm just saying something peepz on here have said plenty times recently - and I bet others have said down the years as their opinion hardens that what's out there now doesn't match what they remember in their time. However my particular take on a familiar theme this time is: 1. It seems like we can synthesise just about any crazy sound we want now (just take hold of those dots and make a wave any shape we want) or reproduce any naturally occurring sound at will with modest equipment. 2. As far as I know (and this may be a weak point as I'm short on expertise here) is that we've explored and to a certain extent become familiar with most of the world now and there doesn't seem to be any large culture or ethnic group who's music we have yet to hear / be blown away by / magpie some bits of into our own popular music. So is the reason that it seems to me that there's no new ideas about but just the same old being rehashed is that instead of being liberated by all this freedom to produce as we like and all this wealth of sounds from around the world we have to examine that if there's nothing strange and new prodding us along (instruments that sound unlike any we've used yet, a new vibe from another land) we run out of steam a bit? Still I guess not having new instruments didn't stop Berg, Mahler and Schoenberg (or punk - but you could argue that was more of a fashion thing than music that was revolutionary). I can relate to what's your saying: listening to electronic music since '90, I have zero patience for crappy stuff and I'm more and more picky on what I consider quality. Too much music today is formulaic and same sounding, it's been said many times. Too many producers are doing a crappy quick job, some for money and other by inexperience or lack of musical knowledge. I wish more techno/house producer had a musical formation background. Take St Germain for example, he has a classical music background and in most of his music it shows. What I want to say is that if now we can produce every sound we want, it's not sufficient for making great music if good songwriting and composition does not go with it. My main concern is that most of tracks produced today from looped bangers to so called minimal techno go nowhere: the track has no satisfying struture and you have the impression the artist didn't know where he wanted to go, or just abandonned the track. I guess not every guy is Carl Craig. So to me the main area I'd like to see progress is good track composition and less generic stuff. However I'm sceptical it'll change much as it's so easy to release crap nowadays (digital labels). A paradox is as yopu say we didn't have so much freedom sound wise until today, yet a lot of stuff is samey sounding as if the producers used the same software and production techniques. Good news is that hidden deep under the deluge of release there's still some interesting stuff released that has some lasting power.
Re: (313) have we run out of music?
i like tom's post a lot. i'm not my opinion is...the more music you listen to and experience in your life, the less you can expect it to dazzle you the way it did when you were younger. it has nothing to do with current trends. even if it's the craziest chit you ever heard, it still won't hit you the way it would have at a different time and place, at a different age. you either have to reconsider what you appreciate and look for in music, and how you appreciate it as you get older, or fall out of love with music. also i find this whole attitude a little paradoxical, and the reason you are going to be unsatisfied. there is music out there that you haven't heard that will knock your socks off if you seek it out. it's not going to fall in your lap, you can't sit around waiting for it. it certainly doesn't have to be new either. i find the whole attitude a little wrong-headed, no offense..we all go through those phases...i know guys twice our age who still freak out over music, more than i do these days...it gives me a lot of hope, and really drives home that enjoying music is about much more than getting a fix on something that sounds new fresh etc.. On 10/31/07, Michael Pujos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : I don't know why this occurs to me after just coming into the house near midnight after watching Control (which I thought was thrilling) but I guess this is the sort of thing that people sometimes like to gas about on this forum ;-) I keep waiting around for the next exciting new form of music. Maybe I'm getting old and not appreciating what's out there but I've been waiting a while now. OK I'm just saying something peepz on here have said plenty times recently - and I bet others have said down the years as their opinion hardens that what's out there now doesn't match what they remember in their time. However my particular take on a familiar theme this time is: 1. It seems like we can synthesise just about any crazy sound we want now (just take hold of those dots and make a wave any shape we want) or reproduce any naturally occurring sound at will with modest equipment. 2. As far as I know (and this may be a weak point as I'm short on expertise here) is that we've explored and to a certain extent become familiar with most of the world now and there doesn't seem to be any large culture or ethnic group who's music we have yet to hear / be blown away by / magpie some bits of into our own popular music. So is the reason that it seems to me that there's no new ideas about but just the same old being rehashed is that instead of being liberated by all this freedom to produce as we like and all this wealth of sounds from around the world we have to examine that if there's nothing strange and new prodding us along (instruments that sound unlike any we've used yet, a new vibe from another land) we run out of steam a bit? Still I guess not having new instruments didn't stop Berg, Mahler and Schoenberg (or punk - but you could argue that was more of a fashion thing than music that was revolutionary). I can relate to what's your saying: listening to electronic music since '90, I have zero patience for crappy stuff and I'm more and more picky on what I consider quality. Too much music today is formulaic and same sounding, it's been said many times. Too many producers are doing a crappy quick job, some for money and other by inexperience or lack of musical knowledge. I wish more techno/house producer had a musical formation background. Take St Germain for example, he has a classical music background and in most of his music it shows. What I want to say is that if now we can produce every sound we want, it's not sufficient for making great music if good songwriting and composition does not go with it. My main concern is that most of tracks produced today from looped bangers to so called minimal techno go nowhere: the track has no satisfying struture and you have the impression the artist didn't know where he wanted to go, or just abandonned the track. I guess not every guy is Carl Craig. So to me the main area I'd like to see progress is good track composition and less generic stuff. However I'm sceptical it'll change much as it's so easy to release crap nowadays (digital labels). A paradox is as yopu say we didn't have so much freedom sound wise until today, yet a lot of stuff is samey sounding as if the producers used the same software and production techniques. Good news is that hidden deep under the deluge of release there's still some interesting stuff released that has some lasting power.
Re: (313) have we run out of music?
On 10/31/07, JT Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i like tom's post a lot. i'm not oops. i'm not ...sure what i was going to say there. ps nebraska dL-014 and $tinkworx vext-001 out in 2 weeks...in europe...
RE: (313) have we run out of music?
Yeah totally agree with Tom's last paragraph here. It's funny going to a minimal club night (ie not exciting/new) and seeing the whole place dancing to some reason presets or something...who is making the music now...c++ programmers? I heard the new burial track last week (sonicsunset dave siska's part), and man, that track was new music to me...scary as hell, really scary if you know what I mean. That's new, although it's also totally about memories. This is quite interesting http://images.google.co.nz/imgres?imgurl=http://k-punk.abstractdynamics.org/ archives/burial.jpgimgrefurl=http://k-punk.abstractdynamics.org/archives/00 7666.htmlh=492w=500sz=70tbnid=i4S92Xw9vsP3oM:tbnh=128tbnw=130prev=/im ages%3Fq%3Dburial%2Bphoto%26um%3D1start=1sa=Xoi=imagesct=imagecd=1 -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:50 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) have we run out of music? On 10/31/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I keep waiting around for the next exciting new form of music. Maybe I'm getting old and not appreciating what's out there but I've been waiting a while now. there's lots of new music, it is just largely influenced by an increasingly materialistic society and it does not have appeal to old heads like us, for the most part. OK I'm just saying something peepz on here have said plenty times recently - and I bet others have said down the years as their opinion hardens that what's out there now doesn't match what they remember in their time. something that came from out of nowhere is going to seem more impressive than something youve seen sprout from something that you were aware of at the time. that discontinuity is what makes it seem exciting! However my particular take on a familiar theme this time is: 1. It seems like we can synthesise just about any crazy sound we want now (just take hold of those dots and make a wave any shape we want) or reproduce any naturally occurring sound at will with modest equipment. 2. As far as I know (and this may be a weak point as I'm short on expertise here) is that we've explored and to a certain extent become familiar with most of the world now and there doesn't seem to be any large culture or ethnic group who's music we have yet to hear / be blown away by / magpie some bits of into our own popular music. i have great problems with the lack of nurturing of local scenes/cultures in the internet age as that is where new music comes from in the first place. that is defniitely not going to help new sounds come around in the same way they used to. So is the reason that it seems to me that there's no new ideas about but just the same old being rehashed is that instead of being liberated by all this freedom to produce as we like and all this wealth of sounds from around the world we have to examine that if there's nothing strange and new prodding us along (instruments that sound unlike any we've used yet, a new vibe from another land) we run out of steam a bit? things maybe shouldnt be so hyperaccelerated in the first place? but that seems to be the mindset of so many electronic music people. they just move on to whatever is new and trendy without fully exploring anything. there's alot of room for retro sounds simply because so many of those ideas were never developed to their fullest. Still I guess not having new instruments didn't stop Berg, Mahler and Schoenberg (or punk - but you could argue that was more of a fashion thing than music that was revolutionary). punk was revolutionary musically because it took all the progress that had been made in rock music and tossed it out the window. it was progress by regression, which is what i think is happening now. the most exciting music coming out to me is really lo-fi and poorly produced and just hacked together in any old way. its the dawn of electronic punk, or something. tom -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.14/1100 - Release Date: 10/30/2007 6:26 PM
Re: (313) have we run out of music?
On Nov 1, 2007, at 6:46 AM, r.g.3003 wrote: It's funny going to a minimal club night (ie not exciting/new) and seeing the whole place dancing to some reason presets or something...who is making the music now...c++ programmers? Hey, it takes Java and C# programmers to make music that boring. -- matt kane's brain http://hydrogenproject.com aim - mkbatwerk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) have we run out of music?
Francis has a good point and a good question.
This is something I've been thinking about off and on for the
last decade. My view is that the last real scene-changing thing
was jungle, and that was 1993 or thereabouts. Styles a-plenty
since then, including all that trip-hop, happy hardcore, gazillion
{*}step spinoffs of db, electrotrash er clash, 17 indistinguishable
flavors of trance, speedhalfdubstepgarage, new rave (huh?),
minimal, progressive and so on. But nothing as broad as a
true new genre like, you know, jazz, blues, rock'n'roll, soul/funk,
reggae, disco, punk, house, techno, jungle and name-yer-own.
Each of the major genres was associated with new sonic
space created by the electric guitar, multi-track recording,
synthesizers, PCs, and so on, combined with a cultural cauldron
like New Orleans in 1948, London in 1961 and 1988, Chicago
in 1953 and 1984, New York in 1925, 1956 and 1976, San Francisco
in 1965, Kingston in 1967, Jo'burg and Dakar and Kinshasa in
1970, the Bronx in 1977 and on and on.
OK, I'm getting a little far afield here. But Francis has a good
point and a good question.
fh
Re: (313) have we run out of music?
On 10/31/07, Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Each of the major genres was associated with new sonic space created by the electric guitar, multi-track recording, synthesizers, PCs, and so on, combined with a cultural cauldron like New Orleans in 1948, London in 1961 and 1988, Chicago in 1953 and 1984, New York in 1925, 1956 and 1976, San Francisco in 1965, Kingston in 1967, Jo'burg and Dakar and Kinshasa in 1970, the Bronx in 1977 and on and on. im not sure i agree. i used punk as an example of people throwing out the previous rules and inventing a style without anything new, but really house and techno to a large degree were like that as well. if you count straight up house and techno records, youre talking about 1984 at the earliest and by then they were using the discarded worthless synths and drum machines that had been used and abandoned by pop music already. ditto with the creation of hiphop, they were using old technology (record players had been pretty standard for many years and 8 tracks and cassettes and reel tape had all sprung up as competition for it) and just breaking the old rules of what counted as music. even reggae and dub was more about misuse of something more standard: a slightly different shuffle with an absuive use of echo and reverb (both of which had existed for years before reggae took it over the top). also, id contest the idea of jungle being something new. surely it was great, but it was more of a combination of what had already been happening with techno and house music and combining it with hiphop. the style and some techniques may have been different, but the equipment was largely the same. i know ive recently seen a pic of a guy called gerald's studio circa 93 or so and it was all the classic house and techno drum machines and synths plus and mpc60 and an amiga. obviously the electric guitar and the synthesizer changed music and alot of ideas about music, but not every major change can be tied to a new tool! tom
Re: (313) have we run out of music?
yeah i'm with tom and completely disagree with both fred and francis. to you (or, us) techno and house, or jungle, or whatever, was super new and exciting etc when we heard it..it seemed like a radical new sound. but that is all because of timing -- our relatively naive ears when we were first exposed to it. we can never get that feeling back again, at least, probably not with electronic music. we view what's going on today with electronic music as just subtle shifts from what we've already heard, because we are all experienced devotees of electronic music who have been devouring it for a long time now...just as people who had already been voraciously consuming european electro and new wave and disco easily dismissed house and techno as nothing but new marketing terms for a music which wasn't drastically different from what they were already listening to. the point is, nothing is ever radically new -- it's an illusion created by your pov, and the timing with which you hear music. it's new to you because we aren't familiar with all the dots connecting it to earlier music. i have a fairly thorough collection of the entire history of recorded music now as a result of my father's recent passing -- 250,000 records, piano rolls from 1900, edisons, jug bands, dance bands/fox trots, waltzes, country, bluegrass, blues, dixieland, swing, bop, traditional indian, greek, turkish, chinese, african, african jive, rb -- you name it, i have it. those cities and dates fred named do have some relevance, but they mark hey days, and by no means mark any radical departures from anything that had come before. none of it popped out of nowhere, not even a little bit, and techno was no exception...though i sure thought so when i first heard it. jt On 11/1/07, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/31/07, Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Each of the major genres was associated with new sonic space created by the electric guitar, multi-track recording, synthesizers, PCs, and so on, combined with a cultural cauldron like New Orleans in 1948, London in 1961 and 1988, Chicago in 1953 and 1984, New York in 1925, 1956 and 1976, San Francisco in 1965, Kingston in 1967, Jo'burg and Dakar and Kinshasa in 1970, the Bronx in 1977 and on and on. im not sure i agree. i used punk as an example of people throwing out the previous rules and inventing a style without anything new, but really house and techno to a large degree were like that as well. if you count straight up house and techno records, youre talking about 1984 at the earliest and by then they were using the discarded worthless synths and drum machines that had been used and abandoned by pop music already. ditto with the creation of hiphop, they were using old technology (record players had been pretty standard for many years and 8 tracks and cassettes and reel tape had all sprung up as competition for it) and just breaking the old rules of what counted as music. even reggae and dub was more about misuse of something more standard: a slightly different shuffle with an absuive use of echo and reverb (both of which had existed for years before reggae took it over the top). also, id contest the idea of jungle being something new. surely it was great, but it was more of a combination of what had already been happening with techno and house music and combining it with hiphop. the style and some techniques may have been different, but the equipment was largely the same. i know ive recently seen a pic of a guy called gerald's studio circa 93 or so and it was all the classic house and techno drum machines and synths plus and mpc60 and an amiga. obviously the electric guitar and the synthesizer changed music and alot of ideas about music, but not every major change can be tied to a new tool! tom
Fw: Re: (313) have we run out of music?
Punk was just a late bloomer. And as the Ramones pointed out, it was invented to be played on transistor radios. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWHAL_q1ne8 fh -- mail forwarded, original message follows -- To: 313@hyperreal.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thomas D. Cox, Jr. Subject: Re: (313) have we run out of music? Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 00:45:21 -0400 On 10/31/07, Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Each of the major genres was associated with new sonic space created by the electric guitar, multi-track recording, synthesizers, PCs, and so on, combined with a cultural cauldron like New Orleans in 1948, London in 1961 and 1988, Chicago in 1953 and 1984, New York in 1925, 1956 and 1976, San Francisco in 1965, Kingston in 1967, Jo'burg and Dakar and Kinshasa in 1970, the Bronx in 1977 and on and on. im not sure i agree. i used punk as an example of people throwing out the previous rules and inventing a style without anything new, but really house and techno to a large degree were like that as well. if you count straight up house and techno records, youre talking about 1984 at the earliest and by then they were using the discarded worthless synths and drum machines that had been used and abandoned by pop music already. ditto with the creation of hiphop, they were using old technology (record players had been pretty standard for many years and 8 tracks and cassettes and reel tape had all sprung up as competition for it) and just breaking the old rules of what counted as music. even reggae and dub was more about misuse of something more standard: a slightly different shuffle with an absuive use of echo and reverb (both of which had existed for years before reggae took it over the top). also, id contest the idea of jungle being something new. surely it was great, but it was more of a combination of what had already been happening with techno and house music and combining it with hiphop. the style and some techniques may have been different, but the equipment was largely the same. i know ive recently seen a pic of a guy called gerald's studio circa 93 or so and it was all the classic house and techno drum machines and synths plus and mpc60 and an amiga. obviously the electric guitar and the synthesizer changed music and alot of ideas about music, but not every major change can be tied to a new tool! tom
