(313) techno isn't selling
I keep hearing this from people - artists, record labels, record stores, etc. but is there any source for stats? I'd like to see some numbers compared from year to year about the drop in sales of DJ vinyl to back up what people are saying. Not that I do or do not believe them, I just would like to know if any group has tracked the sales figures either in a specific country or globally. any DJ trade magazines cover this? MEK /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313 Detroit mi.net 313@hyperreal.org cc: 10/06/2004 11:13 Subject: Re: (313) Is this the new Swayzak sound? AM techno isnt selling how it used to. I'd hate to have relied on selling my music(ha) for the past few years, as I'd imagine I'd have to make the choice between getting a dayjob or releasing something suited a bit more for mass consumption. enough of me and my recently jaded opinions, sorry. -Joe - Original Message - From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 11:27 AM Subject: Re: (313) Is this the new Swayzak sound? It is. I went to Japan lately for work and hung out with those guys at a festival I covered. They're not selling out, they're very underground in ethos. They didn't do the ad without thinking and were worried about appearing in it but deemed it a worthwhile outlet since it's hard for them to get exposure elsewhere. They do have a live band type set up now and one of the guys doesn't tour. They have a singer. I think with the changes over the albums they just don't want to get in a stylistic box. They were bewildered with the electroclash tag for Dirty Dancing, saying they'd always done electro. I do remember them playing here years ago and it was very different to what they're doing now. The only small thing I have is if you want to do vocal music you need a good song - a hook - of some kind or the music is in limbo and they need to develop that. Jeff Mills once explained to me and a promoter here that even a techno producer has to have a hook, all music does, and that stuck with me. Hopefully I will post the Swayzak interview soon. Weird - I just saw an advert on tv last night for a phone - there is a guy on a bullet type train and he's walking from car to car. He flips open his phone and it says 'SWAYZAK' on the screen. He then turns around and there is a full glam/garage rock band behind him. Drummer, guitarist, lead singer, etc. Very fuzzed out overdriven guitar rock style. The band was looking quite glam in purple suits and sh*t. Like a very bright version of the Hives. the music was nothing like I've heard from previous Swayzak releases. It sounded nothing like the great deep dub house/techno from Snowbaording..., Himawari, or even the last electrocash one. It was all heard-it-before garage glam rock crap. Can this be the same Swayzak?! MEK
Re: (313) techno isn't selling
I have heard this so often - and consistently - from such a cross section that it would be impossible to dispute. The facts speak for themselves. So many distributors have done under, for a start. I think most if not all labels have tracked sales so if you were really determined to verify it beyond hearsay then you would be overwhelmed with evidence. ;) You could chart sales of pop albums - where it's easier to ascertain and access info from Billboard - and work your way down to vinyl and specific genres. It would be interesting for someone to do, I guess, if they had the patience for stats! May be depressing though! I keep hearing this from people - artists, record labels, record stores, etc. but is there any source for stats? I'd like to see some numbers compared from year to year about the drop in sales of DJ vinyl to back up what people are saying. Not that I do or do not believe them, I just would like to know if any group has tracked the sales figures either in a specific country or globally. any DJ trade magazines cover this? MEK /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313 Detroit mi.net 313@hyperreal.org cc: 10/06/2004 11:13 Subject: Re: (313) Is this the new Swayzak sound? AM techno isnt selling how it used to. I'd hate to have relied on selling my music(ha) for the past few years, as I'd imagine I'd have to make the choice between getting a dayjob or releasing something suited a bit more for mass consumption. enough of me and my recently jaded opinions, sorry. -Joe - Original Message - From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 11:27 AM Subject: Re: (313) Is this the new Swayzak sound? It is. I went to Japan lately for work and hung out with those guys at a festival I covered. They're not selling out, they're very underground in ethos. They didn't do the ad without thinking and were worried about appearing in it but deemed it a worthwhile outlet since it's hard for them to get exposure elsewhere. They do have a live band type set up now and one of the guys doesn't tour. They have a singer. I think with the changes over the albums they just don't want to get in a stylistic box. They were bewildered with the electroclash tag for Dirty Dancing, saying they'd always done electro. I do remember them playing here years ago and it was very different to what they're doing now. The only small thing I have is if you want to do vocal music you need a good song - a hook - of some kind or the music is in limbo and they need to develop that. Jeff Mills once explained to me and a promoter here that even a techno producer has to have a hook, all music does, and that stuck with me. Hopefully I will post the Swayzak interview soon. Weird - I just saw an advert on tv last night for a phone - there is a guy on a bullet type train and he's walking from car to car. He flips open his phone and it says 'SWAYZAK' on the screen. He then turns around and there is a full glam/garage rock band behind him. Drummer, guitarist, lead singer, etc. Very fuzzed out overdriven guitar rock style. The band was looking quite glam in purple suits and sh*t. Like a very bright version of the Hives. the music was nothing like I've heard from previous Swayzak releases. It sounded nothing like the great deep dub house/techno from Snowbaording..., Himawari, or even the last electrocash one. It was all heard-it-before garage glam rock crap. Can this be the same Swayzak?! MEK
re: (313) techno isn't selling
How about the fact that Nemesis distribution has gone out of business? How about the fact that there's never any more than two people in the dance room at the record stores? How about the fact that the wholesale price on an import is over 8 USD? The stores are only doing techno orders once every three weeks or so (at a lot of places, I know not *all* of them) and allocating their funds to things like hip-hop. I was in the shop the other day, and strangely enough, the whole rap/hip-hop/rb section was booming with customers... something I haven't seen in the house/techno area of the store for QUITE some time. Techno definately isn't selling atm. Matthew http://threeonethree.com Oakland University Classroom Support and Instructional Technical Services Office of Presentation Development 200C Elliott Hall Rochester, MI 48309-4401 (248) 370-4973 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
re: (313) techno isn't selling
yes, as I said, it's not that I don't believe it - I'm just curious to see if there are stats/charts/bar graphs/whatever in any trade magazines. from what I read recently - vinyl is actually becoming popular again, very very slowly, but still... by the way, there's many reasons distribution companies go out of business besides direct result of drop in sales at the retailers. Nemesis could have been managed poorly from within on all sorts of levels. They might have grown out of touch with the changes in the US dance music market. Not saying that's the reason they've closed but it's just an example of things that happen. It's not always 1+1=2. Same goes for record retailers. They open and close more often than distributors I would guess. MEK Matthew Mangold [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 313@hyperreal.org .educc: Subject: re: (313) techno isn't selling 10/06/2004 11:55 AM How about the fact that Nemesis distribution has gone out of business? How about the fact that there's never any more than two people in the dance room at the record stores? How about the fact that the wholesale price on an import is over 8 USD? The stores are only doing techno orders once every three weeks or so (at a lot of places, I know not *all* of them) and allocating their funds to things like hip-hop. I was in the shop the other day, and strangely enough, the whole rap/hip-hop/rb section was booming with customers... something I haven't seen in the house/techno area of the store for QUITE some time. Techno definately isn't selling atm. Matthew http://threeonethree.com Oakland University Classroom Support and Instructional Technical Services Office of Presentation Development 200C Elliott Hall Rochester, MI 48309-4401 (248) 370-4973 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) techno isn't selling
I keep hearing this from people - artists, record labels, record stores, etc. but is there any source for stats? I'd like to see some numbers compared from year to year about the drop in sales of DJ vinyl to back up what people are saying. Not that I do or do not believe them, I just would like to know if any group has tracked the sales figures either in a specific country or globally. any DJ trade magazines cover this? Hi Michael, I really don't think these statistics are available. In the US, these are kept by the RIAA (http://www.riaa.org) and internationally it is keptby International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (http://www.ifpi.org). But they don't break it down into Genre's. And I'm sure that you're average small mom and pop record store isn't reporting their sales to the RIAA. So you have a breakdown. The only people that really know in the Techno world are the artists, record labels, distributors, and record stores that are seeing that they aren't selling as much now as what they were. If I'm wrong, please point me to these statistics, as I and many other people would love to see the break down of Dance Music sales over the last 10 years. Cheers... Dave
RE: (313) techno isn't selling
-Original Message- From: David Bate [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 06 October 2004 18:24 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: /0; 313 Detroit; Cyclone Wehner Subject: Re: (313) techno isn't selling I keep hearing this from people - artists, record labels, record stores, etc. but is there any source for stats? I'd like to see some numbers compared from year to year about the drop in sales of DJ vinyl to back up what people are saying. Not that I do or do not believe them, I just would like to know if any group has tracked the sales figures either in a specific country or globally. any DJ trade magazines cover this? Hi Michael, I really don't think these statistics are available. In the US, these are kept by the RIAA (http://www.riaa.org) and internationally it is keptby International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (http://www.ifpi.org). But they don't break it down into Genre's. And I'm sure that you're average small mom and pop record store isn't reporting their sales to the RIAA. So you have a breakdown. The only people that really know in the Techno world are the artists, record labels, distributors, and record stores that are seeing that they aren't selling as much now as what they were. If I'm wrong, please point me to these statistics, as I and many other people would love to see the break down of Dance Music sales over the last 10 years. We seem to be having this discussion fairly regularly. It should be pointed out that not all stores/labels/distributors are suffering, in fact some are growing, and some of them at a fast rate. By all means these are the exceptions to the rule, but I think it can be too easy to focus on the majority in these discussions. If anything, I find it difficult to find a lot of new releases that I'm really after, and that to me spells a healthy underground market. It's unquestionable that most techno labels are not doing as well as they could be and that distribution choices have dwindled, but other genres don't suffer as much. I'd be really surprised if labels like Stones Throw, KDJ, Warp, Rephlex, Peacefrog, IIWII, JCR, Ghostly, the Goya camp, etc are hurting at the moment, and I'd say most of that health is attributed to their consistent quality alone. Stores like Piccadilly, Juno and Vinyl Junkies are growing fast because of their online presence and Rub-A-Dub is set to join them. Groovetech seems to be the counter-example to this, but you could argue they stretched themselves a little too thin from the moment they tried to run three stores and dominate the online listening markets. At least in Europe, it may be that you won't be able to compete without being online (which doesn't mean you can't have a shop as well, but you know what I mean). Still, I'd like to see the stats if they existed. Tristan === http://www.phonopsia.co.uk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
re: (313) techno isn't selling
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said in response to Matthew Mangold: yes, as I said, it's not that I don't believe it - I'm just curious to see if there are stats/charts/bar graphs/whatever in any trade magazines. from what I read recently - vinyl is actually becoming popular again, very very slowly, but still... by the way, there's many reasons distribution companies go out of business besides direct result of drop in sales at the retailers. Nemesis could have been managed poorly from within on all sorts of levels. They might have grown out of touch with the changes in the US dance music market. Not saying that's the reason they've closed but it's just an example of things that happen. It's not always 1+1=2. Same goes for record retailers. They open and close more often than distributors I would guess. MEK * Michael, I sense that your difficulty in accepting easily that what Matthew Mangold and others are reporting is a widespread thing, might have something to do with the fact that you've recently returned from travelling to Europe (and other regions) where 'techno' and all related styles of music (and 'dance music in general) is stubbornly selling quite well, if not exactly having a renaissance. To me, this underscores the notion that non-traditional forms of expression in general, seem able to make marked progress everywhere but in early 21st century America. Am I wrong about this? Seriously, it's not a rhetorical question. I'd like to know what people think. k
RE: (313) techno isn't selling
To me, this underscores the notion that non-traditional forms of expression in general, seem able to make marked progress everywhere but in early 21st century America. Am I wrong about this? Seriously, it's not a rhetorical question. I'd like to know what people think. K A-side I think the music industry in general is hurting in america. And to me it deserves it. Not the Artist, but those that really control the business aspect of it. Although Electronic music in general is everywhere; advertising adds, movies, games, etc, there is noone brave enough to market it. The reason it shows up in these other forms of art is because the people that are in control of the creative aspects of these markets are a part of a very creative generation. The selling, releasing, and marketing of music is still controlled by non creative bandwagon jumping business men. Marketing and promoting is everything and the powers that be, could care less to market non-traditional forms of art, unless of course it somehow makes it's way into america's vernacular on it's own. Which is what I think happened in Europe. B-side What kind of marketing or promotion does True techno music have here in america??? The answer is ,,,CLUBS , small indiscreet record stores and guess what more clubs. How can a record or a c.d. from a techno d.j. get sold if NO ONE knows about them. I'm in an office of about 40 people, 30 of them are 35 and under. Of those 30 I would say only 5 knows any electronic artist and only one (ME) knows about true techno artist.What's wrong with this picture. I know a lot of people who enjoy this music when they hear it, but the only place they can hear it, is in a smokey nightclub that's open between 10:00 and 4:00 a.m. O.k I'm generalizing here but I think most of you get my point. This has been techno music's major problem, especially hear in america. It's so tied to the dance club industry that it's alienated itself from a large buying market. And we are definitely NOT going to get any help from a MAJOR. -Original Message- From: Ken Odeluga [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 3:42 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: re: (313) techno isn't selling [EMAIL PROTECTED] said in response to Matthew Mangold: yes, as I said, it's not that I don't believe it - I'm just curious to see if there are stats/charts/bar graphs/whatever in any trade magazines. from what I read recently - vinyl is actually becoming popular again, very very slowly, but still... by the way, there's many reasons distribution companies go out of business besides direct result of drop in sales at the retailers. Nemesis could have been managed poorly from within on all sorts of levels. They might have grown out of touch with the changes in the US dance music market. Not saying that's the reason they've closed but it's just an example of things that happen. It's not always 1+1=2. Same goes for record retailers. They open and close more often than distributors I would guess. MEK * Michael, I sense that your difficulty in accepting easily that what Matthew Mangold and others are reporting is a widespread thing, might have something to do with the fact that you've recently returned from travelling to Europe (and other regions) where 'techno' and all related styles of music (and 'dance music in general) is stubbornly selling quite well, if not exactly having a renaissance. To me, this underscores the notion that non-traditional forms of expression in general, seem able to make marked progress everywhere but in early 21st century America. Am I wrong about this? Seriously, it's not a rhetorical question. I'd like to know what people think. k
