RE: [313] the race debate
Some people like Moby more than Mike Banks. More fools them? Maybe. Get over it. S: If it affected your daily bread, you might flare your nostrils a bit as well. There is nothing ridiculous about wanting to thrive wheterh you're a white european or a balck american. We are speaking to the economics, politics and propaganda of Dance here. If you believe in the culture/music/movement as a way of erasing, which it has clearly done, the delinations and boudaries between races, countries, territories, borders I am shocked that you wish to simply ignore those wishing to exploit it and ridicule those wishing to maintain it and thrive from their efforts and contributions. From: Steven Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: '313@hyperreal.org' 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [313] the race debate Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 18:22:34 +0100 Some of you will be the first in line to buy your tickets, but I caution you. If this does, in fact, occur as it has been outlined to me, the global family...and I mean the FOR REAL mugs-- the world over-- will respond. Try to take over, white wash, distort, divert or dilute any of our accomplishments or economics and there will be consequences. We are a force to be reckoned with when unified and I cannot think of a better opportunity! Or we could just ignore them and keep doing it better, action not reaction you know? But I am a white european so do I qualify to use the word 'we' in the above sentence? This has evolved into such an absurd thread. Steve - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] the race debate
So this article is fact?? What about this? http://www.msnbc.com/news/548387.asp Is this fact also? ibid. Ollie Forward Music 2001.schedule 04-14 - Machina2 - Toronto - DJ/Live set with Juan Atkins - Kooky Scientist 05-28 - DEMF - DJ/Live - 1pm-3pm Underground stage [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 04/03/2001 09:32:32 AM To: 313@hyperreal.org cc: (bcc: Oliver Barkovic/ObTech) Subject: [313] the race debate is oh so exciting. y'all should shut up and read this article: http://www.city-journal.org/html/11_1_whats_holding_blacks.html and please, post about a million more times about it. we'd like that. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] the race debate
On Tue, 3 Apr 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is oh so exciting. y'all should shut up and read this article: http://www.city-journal.org/html/11_1_whats_holding_blacks.html and please, post about a million more times about it. we'd like that. OkI'll start off first. Homeboy is a hack, the article is wack, and I'm not surprised at the level of his anti-black attack. lks
Re: [313] the race debate
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So this article is fact?? What about this? http://www.msnbc.com/news/548387.asp Is this fact also? There is no such thing as fact... Check the Flat Earth Society for example... You can prove any opinion wrong if you think about it long enough... Therefore the other opinion must be right... Or is it... Later, Nick:) __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] the race debate
On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Lester Kenyatta Spence wrote: On Tue, 3 Apr 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is oh so exciting. y'all should shut up and read this article: http://www.city-journal.org/html/11_1_whats_holding_blacks.html and please, post about a million more times about it. we'd like that. OkI'll start off first. Homeboy is a hack, the article is wack, and I'm not surprised at the level of his anti-black attack. I don't want to perpetuate this off-topic thing any more than necessary, but ... I think that articles such as this deserve careful reading, and refutation. I am a resolutely, eternally liberal guy, but I think conservative counter-arguments to liberal notions are quite valuable. If we never question our own beliefs they become brittle. To deny that racism isn't a clear and present fact of American society is absurd to me, because I'm white, and I'm around a lot of different people. I meat people all the time who not only prejudiced against blacks, liberals, gays etc, but positively revel in that fact. I'm more comfortable actually with people who are straight up about it -- there's so many other who find a way to stealth it into the discourse without showing their true colors. And is it just me, but when Chris Rock does his schtick where he talks about how righteous black folks hate niggers, doesn't your skin just crawl? And yet I've heard that argument, maybe in more polite terms, over and over again from some black folks. I'm a Quaker so I believe the light is God in everyone, and if you speak to the light in people their best comes out. That, as I see it, is the central failing in most of the debates over race and ideology. Folks find it easier to win arguments when they demonize the opposition.
Re: [313] the race debate
Here's a fact Nick: I like Techno. You're failing to realize that there is a considerable difference between an opinion, which is necessarily based on a limited amount of objective experience combined with subjective judgements, and a fact, which might require no objective experience to prove it is so. Certain things we can all prove or disprove because they are objective. However, taking a limited amount of empirical knowledge and classifying it as a proof, ... the Flat Earth Society ..., is pretty far beyond a jump to conclusions. As for the fact that I subjectively like techno, no matter how hard you think otherwise, you'll never be able to change it. I was just about ready to unsubscribe from the list after reading a few messages today. I probably would have had I not read the messages by George and Tim. I think that the race issue is definitetly something that could belong on this list, but not in such a negative way. Being raised in different cultures has a tendency to give people different tastes and styles in music. It's a great thing if you ask me. Of course there will be problems also ... but imagine if the cultural splits weren't there at all ... I think the music would suffer quite a bit. Later, my name is Jason btw, I'm from Flint but live in Sweden. - Jason Hill - Sidehop Curator - http://www.sidehop.com - ICQ: 3133747
Re: [313] the race debate
here, here L!! As for the great race debate, once and for all the argument is regarding economics and propaganda...PURE AND SIMPLE!! Black Amercian artists, innovators, geniuses, trailblazers have continuously been ignored, ripped off, imitated, and/or exploited since the beginning of music recording history (as well as recocrded history). When generations millenia from now look back upon what is currently happening...Moby will still stand out as the great white Techno god having ushered in a cultural revolution...based simply on the mass exploitation of his persona and music as the New Thing... It is godawful how sickeningly brainwashed most Americans/the world at large are. Don't forget that voodo, as a religion was convoluted and twisted into instilling FEAR, as a black magic and evil entity, into both black and white peeps brains back in the day...this is an example of HOW EFFECTIVE propaganda is as this RE-WRITING of the truth still hold true TODAY. As for the general currently being debated here, how can any of you naysayers argue with the fact that NOT ONE black innovator or even any of their followers have been pursued or signed by any major label here in America? Does that fact not clearly illuminate a skewed economic mentality? Normally, I would prefer to call this a PLAN, implying consciousness in decision making, but I'll soften it a bit for the sake of those choosing to ignore hard data. The fact remains that in case after case, major labels have been sued by artists both black and white, perhaps not the smartest individuals for exploitation and outright thievery of musical artists publishing. How about Jimi Hendrix's world renowned case, for example??? If I recall correctly, Warner Bros. had NEVER made a royalty/publishing payment to his descendants/family once he passed amounting to a landmark case and settlement just recently. YOU JUST KNOW it still was less than was garnered in sales, licensing, performance rights and mechanicals over the course of some 25+ years. Meanwhile, Moby has frittered away literally hundreds of thousands of marketing dollars of major label money with okey-doke returns resulting in his being dropped from 2-3 majors until FINALLY the payola paid off and he charted into POP history. Just ask Martha Wash about how she felt about CC's success...what kind of truth distortion/outright B.S. was THAT!? As I make my livelihood in this arena, I simply will NOT shut up about the truth whether or not it is pleasing to the palate of the brainwashed optimist or not. Study the history of ANY major media/medium and you will find propaganda and distortion for the specific purpose of diverting monies into the pockets of the undeserving. Here's one for the records: Ford Focus is sponsoring a Techno tour (cutesy-cute) starring our boy Moby and not ONE Detroit artist who were asked to participate WITHOUT PAY simply to substantiate their grooovy new tag line. Coming to a theatre near you. Some of you will be the first in line to buy your tickets, but I caution you. If this does, in fact, occur as it has been outlined to me, the global family...and I mean the FOR REAL mugs-- the world over-- will respond. Try to take over, white wash, distort, divert or dilute any of our accomplishments or economics and there will be consequences. We are a force to be reckoned with when unified and I cannot think of a better opportunity! From: Lester Kenyatta Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] the race debate Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 10:12:54 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 3 Apr 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: is oh so exciting. y'all should shut up and read this article: http://www.city-journal.org/html/11_1_whats_holding_blacks.html and please, post about a million more times about it. we'd like that. OkI'll start off first. Homeboy is a hack, the article is wack, and I'm not surprised at the level of his anti-black attack. lks - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
RE: [313] the race debate
Some of you will be the first in line to buy your tickets, but I caution you. If this does, in fact, occur as it has been outlined to me, the global family...and I mean the FOR REAL mugs-- the world over-- will respond. Try to take over, white wash, distort, divert or dilute any of our accomplishments or economics and there will be consequences. We are a force to be reckoned with when unified and I cannot think of a better opportunity! Or we could just ignore them and keep doing it better, action not reaction you know? Steve
RE: [313] the race debate
Some of you will be the first in line to buy your tickets, but I caution you. If this does, in fact, occur as it has been outlined to me, the global family...and I mean the FOR REAL mugs-- the world over-- will respond. Try to take over, white wash, distort, divert or dilute any of our accomplishments or economics and there will be consequences. We are a force to be reckoned with when unified and I cannot think of a better opportunity! Or we could just ignore them and keep doing it better, action not reaction you know? But I am a white european so do I qualify to use the word 'we' in the above sentence? This has evolved into such an absurd thread. Steve
Re: [313] the race debate
Folks find it easier to win arguments when they demonize the opposition. Yeah, too true. Next thing you know someone will be calling me a fascist. Talk about shooting the messenger...though KDJ doesn't need me to defend his views. Glad I pushed a few buttons. Though I've seen some thoughtful, valid responses to my quoting of Moodymann, it's amazing how defensive people become over the issue of techno race, myself not excepted...Only a handful of people have actually addressed the substance of what Moodymann--the real Detroit deal, no less--was saying about sampling respect on those liner-notes. After more than 5 years, I guess I'm starting to get a little sick of the so-called 'regular programming' on this list. There's so much idle chatter; don't some of you get enough mindless entertainment during your everyday lives? Do people still believe that Detroit techno can function as a militant, all-embracing force for change in the whole world, not merely a safely-insulated musical one? Does anyone still believe in the revolution, rather than the raveolution? Is it all just a pipedream, a pathetic imitation of what someone like Marcos has the potential to achieve in Mexico? Maybe AO was right, Detroit techno is dead. I'll leave you with another incendiary quote from someone whose name I know a few of you will recognize, whose views may even accord with what many of you have been saying about techno being intrinsically 'raceless' in its ideal form: Ultimately, class is the only way to measure advantage and disadvantage in the world--there's nothing intrinsically good about being black, nothing good about being white. Nothing intrinsically evil about either one either. What I'm saying is we're all niggers--all the people that can see that, all the people that can feel that. All the slave masters are gonna die and the people who can see that they're niggers are the only ones that will survive. People who feel that they're being abused in the world are the ones that are going to fight. No matter who they are, what they look like, they're gonna fight. Amiri Baraka And before the flames start, he's the communist, not me ;-) Thanks for reading, Wes (Agent Provocateur)
RE: [313] the race debate
With a tag line of: Ford Focus...Detroit Techno sponsoring a Moby tour...what do you suggest? Shall a Mike Banks or a Juan Atkins for example, sit back and let someone else make his money and benefit from their efforts while they are quintessentially excluded and pushed aside. What kind of juveniles do you all think created this music and mentality? These are grown men and women, with families to support and REAL bills to pay. Are our dreams of financial success and acclaim to be kicked to the curb for the greater good? What the f**k are you all saying ANYWAY? It is simply not in our nature, nor in the nature of the culture of aggressive creative individualism/techno to simply lie down and take a fist up the rump. Can we try at least to approach this as grown business people. After all, 313 CREATED this business and now the majors and stupid, tagalong bad white people wish to exploit it and us for the sake of the dollar. I'm disgusted with the apathy being exhibited in this thread. Life is not E based. That is simply NOT REAL y'all. Parties that bring all the races together are incredibleBUT THEY ARE JUST PARTIES. Party life and the esoterics of the music are NOT what we are discussing here at all. How would any of you like it if you busted yo ass 24-7 for 10+ years and someone else got paid for your work. Would this not raise your ire?? Come one kiddies, let's talk reality here. A trance rip-off of Jaguar was just the tip of the iceberg. If you truly believe in this music and culture perhaps you might like to join in the fight for its defense and longevity. From: Steven Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [313] the race debate Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 18:19:52 +0100 Some of you will be the first in line to buy your tickets, but I caution you. If this does, in fact, occur as it has been outlined to me, the global family...and I mean the FOR REAL mugs-- the world over-- will respond. Try to take over, white wash, distort, divert or dilute any of our accomplishments or economics and there will be consequences. We are a force to be reckoned with when unified and I cannot think of a better opportunity! Or we could just ignore them and keep doing it better, action not reaction you know? Steve - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
RE: [313] the race debate
S: If it affected your daily bread, you might flare your nostrils a bit as well. There is nothing ridiculous about wanting to thrive wheterh you're a white european or a balck american. We are speaking to the economics, politics and propaganda of Dance here. If you believe in the culture/music/movement as a way of erasing, which it has clearly done, the delinations and boudaries between races, countries, territories, borders I am shocked that you wish to simply ignore those wishing to exploit it and ridicule those wishing to maintain it and thrive from their efforts and contributions. From: Steven Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: '313@hyperreal.org' 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [313] the race debate Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 18:22:34 +0100 Some of you will be the first in line to buy your tickets, but I caution you. If this does, in fact, occur as it has been outlined to me, the global family...and I mean the FOR REAL mugs-- the world over-- will respond. Try to take over, white wash, distort, divert or dilute any of our accomplishments or economics and there will be consequences. We are a force to be reckoned with when unified and I cannot think of a better opportunity! Or we could just ignore them and keep doing it better, action not reaction you know? But I am a white european so do I qualify to use the word 'we' in the above sentence? This has evolved into such an absurd thread. Steve - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [313] the race debate
W: Thanks for the provocation regarding our chosen vocation :] From: Charles Prince [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] the race debate Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 13:07:48 -0400 Folks find it easier to win arguments when they demonize the opposition. Yeah, too true. Next thing you know someone will be calling me a fascist. Talk about shooting the messenger...though KDJ doesn't need me to defend his views. Glad I pushed a few buttons. Though I've seen some thoughtful, valid responses to my quoting of Moodymann, it's amazing how defensive people become over the issue of techno race, myself not excepted...Only a handful of people have actually addressed the substance of what Moodymann--the real Detroit deal, no less--was saying about sampling respect on those liner-notes. After more than 5 years, I guess I'm starting to get a little sick of the so-called 'regular programming' on this list. There's so much idle chatter; don't some of you get enough mindless entertainment during your everyday lives? Do people still believe that Detroit techno can function as a militant, all-embracing force for change in the whole world, not merely a safely-insulated musical one? Does anyone still believe in the revolution, rather than the raveolution? Is it all just a pipedream, a pathetic imitation of what someone like Marcos has the potential to achieve in Mexico? Maybe AO was right, Detroit techno is dead. I'll leave you with another incendiary quote from someone whose name I know a few of you will recognize, whose views may even accord with what many of you have been saying about techno being intrinsically 'raceless' in its ideal form: Ultimately, class is the only way to measure advantage and disadvantage in the world--there's nothing intrinsically good about being black, nothing good about being white. Nothing intrinsically evil about either one either. What I'm saying is we're all niggers--all the people that can see that, all the people that can feel that. All the slave masters are gonna die and the people who can see that they're niggers are the only ones that will survive. People who feel that they're being abused in the world are the ones that are going to fight. No matter who they are, what they look like, they're gonna fight. Amiri Baraka And before the flames start, he's the communist, not me ;-) Thanks for reading, Wes (Agent Provocateur) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [313] the race debate
life is not E based, i agree. but life isn't (or shouldn't be) business based as well. what first fascinated me about this music was that i had the impression that it wasn't based on money, that it wasn't based on envy, that it wasn't based on racial bs. but the more i learned about the music, the more i realised that these things do matter as well. no light without shadow, no good without evil. but i do believe that the music we love and we believe in can help us to gain the right balance. it is _our_ music and therefore it is _our_ responsibility to learn from normal society's mistakes to improve our own and others life. may the force be with you peter - Original Message - From: laura gavoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 5:40 PM Subject: RE: [313] the race debate : With a tag line of: Ford Focus...Detroit Techno sponsoring a Moby : tour...what do you suggest? : : Shall a Mike Banks or a Juan Atkins for example, sit back and let someone : else make his money and benefit from their efforts while they are : quintessentially excluded and pushed aside. What kind of juveniles do you : all think created this music and mentality? These are grown men and women, : with families to support and REAL bills to pay. : : Are our dreams of financial success and acclaim to be kicked to the curb for : the greater good? What the f**k are you all saying ANYWAY? : : It is simply not in our nature, nor in the nature of the culture of : aggressive creative individualism/techno to simply lie down and take : a fist up the rump. Can we try at least to approach this as grown business : people. After all, 313 CREATED this business and now the majors and stupid, : tagalong bad white people wish to exploit it and us for the sake of the : dollar. : : I'm disgusted with the apathy being exhibited in this thread. Life is not E : based. That is simply NOT REAL y'all. Parties that bring all the races : together are incredibleBUT THEY ARE JUST PARTIES. Party life and the : esoterics of the music are NOT what we are discussing here at all. : : How would any of you like it if you busted yo ass 24-7 for 10+ years and : someone else got paid for your work. Would this not raise your ire?? Come : one kiddies, let's talk reality here. : : A trance rip-off of Jaguar was just the tip of the iceberg. If you truly : believe in this music and culture perhaps you might like to join in the : fight for its defense and longevity. :
Re: [313] the race debate
On Tue, Apr 03, 2001 at 05:40:52PM +, laura gavoor wrote: With a tag line of: Ford Focus...Detroit Techno sponsoring a Moby tour...what do you suggest? Shall a Mike Banks or a Juan Atkins for example, sit back and let someone else make his money and benefit from their efforts while they are quintessentially excluded and pushed aside. What kind of juveniles do you all think created this music and mentality? These are grown men and women, with families to support and REAL bills to pay. Would Mike Banks do a tour sponsored by Ford Focus? It is simply not in our nature, nor in the nature of the culture of aggressive creative individualism/techno to simply lie down and take a fist up the rump. Can we try at least to approach this as grown business people. After all, 313 CREATED this business and now the majors and stupid, tagalong bad white people wish to exploit it and us for the sake of the dollar. 313 created what? Electronic dance music was not created in Detroit. What if people started saying that black, American people have no business sampling or being inspired by Kraftwerk? -- :: atomly :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly
Re: [313] the race debate
313 created what? Electronic dance music was not created in Detroit. What if people started saying that black, American people have no business sampling or being inspired by Kraftwerk? or Kraftwerk having no business being inspired by James Brown. this train of thought could go on forever, no? -d
Re: [313] the race debate
On Tue, Apr 03, 2001 at 02:21:00PM -0400, Dan Sicko wrote: What if people started saying that black, American people have no business sampling or being inspired by Kraftwerk? or Kraftwerk having no business being inspired by James Brown. this train of thought could go on forever, no? My point exactly. We could go on saying this until we come to the conclusion that we're not allowed to use rhythm unless we're prehistoric men banging rocks together because we don't really know what it was like to grow up as a hunter and gatherer. -- :: atomly :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly
Re: [313] the race debate
313 created what? Electronic dance music was not created in Detroit. Umm, Detroit Techno. What if people started saying that black, American people have no business sampling or being inspired by Kraftwerk? It would be ridiculous. Have Derrick May, Afrika Bambatta or Carl Craig given the props to Kraftwerk they deserve? Compare and contrast with the M word... I don't think anybody is seriously saying, Techno should only be black music or anything like that. Just that, give credit where it's due. If you're in a position to do that, you have an obligation to do so. You can print this out and hold me to it, should the need ever arise, btw. Jonny.
Re: [313] the race debate
this is so ridiculous. why don't you take this discussion into personal e-mail? stop blowing up my mailbox. From: Dan Sicko [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: atomly [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] the race debate Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 14:21:00 -0400 313 created what? Electronic dance music was not created in Detroit. What if people started saying that black, American people have no business sampling or being inspired by Kraftwerk? or Kraftwerk having no business being inspired by James Brown. this train of thought could go on forever, no? -d - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [313] The race Debate
OK... I guess I kinda started all this mess in a way, and now I want to clarify what I was trying to say last night at 5:00 in the morning I was just basically defending my, as a white kid from the suburbs of detroit, right to give proper respect to black artists and their music I feel that I am able to understand and therefore sample, sing, cover in my band, or whatever I want, black music regardless of where I grew up, or what color I am I used numerous examples to prove my point that it goes both ways and that this music is an amalgamation of ideas that span a wide range of cultures (KDJ owes more to disco than to Kraftwerk I would say, so look at Van McCoy to Giorgio Moroder)... Actually if you were to read it again, you'd see that my post was actually about just forgetting about all this race talk and moving on, seeing music as music, and people as people... I would like to apologize, however, for using reverse racism in the post, that was a stupid and ignorant move on my part... I hate that phrase, and always have, but after being awake for almost 24 hours, having a rough day at work, at maybe a little too much beer, It just sort of came out... And as far as the Subject, for those who had a problem with it, I was just saying that I was annoyed with the race and techno debate, and how it makes me feel to be a suburban white kid who is 23 years old, now living in Ann Arbor, who just loves-- I mean ***LOVES*** Techno and House... It is my life blood in many ways... I'm just tired of feeling like it is wrong for me to like certain musics, because someone feels I cannot understand it... I'm glad I said some things that I feel like I needed to say, But it was never intended to creat enemies, or drive wedges... I feel that I have the respect and the knowledge, that will allow me to sample certain music and not make it sound silly, weak and tired ... Maybe I'm an exception, or maybe I'm just another crazy suburban white kid stealing someone else's soul??? Who will tell me which is true??? I'll finish by telling a little story about something that happened to me yesterday... I work in a restaraunt right now and I was listening to the Designer Music CD back in the kitchen and one of my co-workers was really starting to dig it and started asking questions about it... Mind you, his Idea of techno is Fatboy Slim... So I started talking to him about it and about Detroit techno's origins, and stuff... Then I showed him the CD case, and he says It's weird for me to think of a black guy making techno music... Then I found myself telling him all this stuff about how it all came about through black people and he thought it was all really cool... And spreading the the knowledge always makes me feel good... The question is... Is this kid black or white??? I think that more often than not we all have encountered techno-ignorance on all sides of the cube... Music can overcome all boundaries, and bring people together... Or it can cause revolutions, or it can tear people apart... It has a mysterious power That's it for me... - sb One Ear to the Ground Communications http://www.totheground.com (Coming Soon!!) - Original Message - From: Scott Brandon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Prince [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 7:16 AM Subject: Re: [313] Race and Techno Annoyance In response to KDJ quotes from Charles Prince... OK, It takes a bit to get me to post, but here goes... I'm so sick of this Black/White thing... Race is race, and music is music... The two are in some ways intertwined but a piece of music is it's own entity, sentient and soveriegn... Yes the founding fathers of techno were black, and deserve a great deal of respect for their accomplishment... I love KDJ's music... But I can't help but be bothered that this stereotype, and reverse racism is being carried on To say that to understand soul music you have to be black, because that's who it was made by and intended for, is like to say that to understand Christianity you have to be Jewish, because that's who it was made by and initially intended for (Just an anology)... The whole thing sucks Ideas are Ideas... Techno is an Idea... or if you look at it Jeff Mill's way, it's beyond an Idea... Isn't techno constantly refered to as 'future music'??? What about a future that is void of a separation between races??? It seems that actually many people are still living in the past... I'm of white skin color I love techno and house I FEEL techno, and house in my soul... All of it... From the hard to the deep (actually more on the deep side)... Who's to say who can and can't feel certain music just because of race, color, or creed??? I may not have lived Curtis Mayfield's life, and neither did anyone else on this planet, but I can ***FEEL*** his music... I can feel what he's talking about, what he's expressing through his
Re: [313] The race Debate
What's with all the 313 - Ann Arbor residents? I knew I wasn't the only one, but dayum! :) And as far as the Subject, for those who had a problem with it, I was just saying that I was annoyed with the race and techno debate, and how it makes me feel to be a suburban white kid who is 23 years old, now living in Ann Arbor, who just loves-- I mean ***LOVES*** Techno and House... It is my life blood in many ways... I'm just tired of feeling like it is wrong for me to like certain musics, because someone feels I cannot understand it... I'll finish by telling a little story about something that happened to me yesterday... I work in a restaraunt right now and I was listening to the Designer Music CD back in the kitchen and one of my co-workers was really starting to dig it and started asking questions about it... Mind you, his Idea of techno is Fatboy Slim... So I started talking to him about it and about Detroit techno's origins, and stuff... Then I showed him the CD case, and he says It's weird for me to think of a black guy making techno music... Then I found myself telling him all this stuff about how it all came about through black people and he thought it was all really cool... And spreading the the knowledge always makes me feel good...
RE: [313] the race debate
if you have a hard time believing this, just think about women in the workforce as an analogy. a good parallel. do just as good a job a lot of the time, get paid less and don't get the promotion. Mike From: laura gavoor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [313] the race debate Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 17:40:52 With a tag line of: Ford Focus...Detroit Techno sponsoring a Moby tour...what do you suggest? Shall a Mike Banks or a Juan Atkins for example, sit back and let someone else make his money and benefit from their efforts while they are quintessentially excluded and pushed aside. What kind of juveniles do you all think created this music and mentality? These are grown men and women, with families to support and REAL bills to pay. Are our dreams of financial success and acclaim to be kicked to the curb for the greater good? What the f**k are you all saying ANYWAY? It is simply not in our nature, nor in the nature of the culture of aggressive creative individualism/techno to simply lie down and take a fist up the rump. Can we try at least to approach this as grown business people. After all, 313 CREATED this business and now the majors and stupid, tagalong bad white people wish to exploit it and us for the sake of the dollar. I'm disgusted with the apathy being exhibited in this thread. Life is not E based. That is simply NOT REAL y'all. Parties that bring all the races together are incredibleBUT THEY ARE JUST PARTIES. Party life and the esoterics of the music are NOT what we are discussing here at all. How would any of you like it if you busted yo ass 24-7 for 10+ years and someone else got paid for your work. Would this not raise your ire?? Come one kiddies, let's talk reality here. A trance rip-off of Jaguar was just the tip of the iceberg. If you truly believe in this music and culture perhaps you might like to join in the fight for its defense and longevity. From: Steven Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [313] the race debate Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 18:19:52 +0100 Some of you will be the first in line to buy your tickets, but I caution you. If this does, in fact, occur as it has been outlined to me, the global family...and I mean the FOR REAL mugs-- the world over-- will respond. Try to take over, white wash, distort, divert or dilute any of our accomplishments or economics and there will be consequences. We are a force to be reckoned with when unified and I cannot think of a better opportunity! Or we could just ignore them and keep doing it better, action not reaction you know? Steve - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [313] RE: race debate is so basic and not that deep
yeah yeah, but racism/stereotyping still exists my friend and since we are a new and smarter generation, we shouldn't so easily sweep it to the side like other generations did. We can only evolve when we admit to the world's imperfections and reflect on it amongst ourselves even if there's disagreement. discussions never hurt anyone the last time I checked. at the same time, if you hated this thread so much, why didn't you start a thread about music instead of writing this? alan's point is that the genenal population of Blacks never got into techno and never will, period. last word, G l y p h In a message dated 12/11/00 3:38:58 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is anyone else getting a ing headache from this not black enough thread? Cmon people, evolve. Evolve. Get the out of the murky waters of the evolutionary turmoil that is the programming of attachment to the various things that make you different. How deep, soulful, or spiritual you are depends on your individual level of insight, evolution, experience, and interpretation. Not on any of the attributes your culture tells you you should stand seperate and strong on. I hate this. Isn't it Mike Banks who told you, do not allow yourselves to be programmed. Anybody else see that the man lives inside of your head in the form of your own ego? He's black, white, yellow, red, every ing color that a human w/ an ego could possibly be. So PLEASE, can we stick to the ing music and at least somewhat interesting and related topics of discussion!!!-
