Re: (313) P2P Future
The only way forward I can see for artists is this: 1. Give away lossy digital copies of your music, as promotion. 2. Emphasize the audio quality of the 'real thing' -- the paid for copy. 3. Make sure the physical object you're selling adds value over the digital copy -- either by adding tracks, attractive packaging, or some sort of unique value you don't get downloading it digitally. 4. Perform live, or DJ or do something where you're selling a unique event that can't be endlessly reproduced and distributed over the internet. I like the idea of #3 very much - vinyl only tracks would be a welcome change from CD only tracks plus well designed packaging is always encouraged. Little pluses are so cool - buy a 12 to find a sticker slipped inside. It's fairly common in rock music to find little things like record label logos on a sticker - why not dance music 12? Now, a lot of musicians have found, of necessity, that a much larger percentage of their income will have to come from playing in front of people. or licensing their tracks. MEK
Re: (313) P2P Future
I like the idea of #3 very much - vinyl only tracks would be a welcome change from CD only tracks plus well designed packaging is always encouraged. Little pluses are so cool - buy a 12 to find a sticker slipped inside. It's fairly common in rock music to find little things like record label logos on a sticker - why not dance music 12? yeah we need something to stick on the back of our laptops for the dancers to see :) robin...
Re: (313) P2P Future
This guy wrote a manifesto on the topic . saved me thinking to hard about it all . http://montemagno.typepad.com/p2p_manifesto/ You know the only person making money is the person selling bandwidth . I guess I know where to start investing ' eh Dr. Lester K. Spence wrote: On Jan 15, 2005, at 12:33 PM, Kent Williams wrote: As far as file copying, CD ripping etc, the piggies are out of the barn. Most DRM systems can be defeated pretty easily, and when all else fails, anyone with a good soundcard can make a high quality digital copy via analog loopback of protected digital files. So DRM is a joke. It only stops people the way a cheap bike lock does -- it deters the casual thief.
Re: (313) P2P Future
On Jan 15, 2005, at 12:33 PM, Kent Williams wrote: As far as file copying, CD ripping etc, the piggies are out of the barn. Most DRM systems can be defeated pretty easily, and when all else fails, anyone with a good soundcard can make a high quality digital copy via analog loopback of protected digital files. So DRM is a joke. It only stops people the way a cheap bike lock does -- it deters the casual thief. Similarly, the legal pursuit of file sharers is doomed to failure. They can go after easy, stationary targets, but they'll never get the technical edge over the file sharers. We're only in the very early stages of what's possible with decentralized peer to peer software. The only way forward I can see for artists is this: 1. Give away lossy digital copies of your music, as promotion. 2. Emphasize the audio quality of the 'real thing' -- the paid for copy. 3. Make sure the physical object you're selling adds value over the digital copy -- either by adding tracks, attractive packaging, or some sort of unique value you don't get downloading it digitally. 4. Perform live, or DJ or do something where you're selling a unique event that can't be endlessly reproduced and distributed over the internet. There is a fifth option too. How much money did May make off of letting one of his tracks (Strings maybe) be used for Midnight Run? Maybe a buck a copy? This isn't easy. None of it is. But there are a number of advertising execs that could find uses for techno or house tracks. Dr. Lester K. Spence Assistant Professor, Political Science and African Afro-American Studies Washington University Kellogg Scholar in Health Disparities 2004-2006
RE: (313) P2P
Donations give you download privileges for 30 days, wich means if you do a search and you want to download one of the results, you'll end up on top of the (if any) queue. (that is, if no one else with privileges is in that queue) as i recently discoverd, although they don't seem to explicitly say it anywhere, the more you give, the longer your privledges. i've always just given $5 and gotten 30 days. although i recently gave $7 for a friend who i owed $7. he got $45. So decided what the hey and donated $30, and i got 270 days. Furthermore, you can make a userlist and say if you wanna share with the world, or just with ppl in that list. Handy to prevent leeches from grabbing all your shared stuff. Works excellent for me, it's free, never any security issues (running XP pro so enough issues there) so I'd just say give it a try. If you want to add me to your SLSK userlist - my UN is pascal1971. Got some nice sets to share! Cheers Pascal. Hometaping is killing music - support your local recordstore! -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Verzonden: dinsdag 11 januari 2005 14:04 Aan: '313' Onderwerp: (313) P2P No not another discussion of the ethics of it - sod the ethics I'm just going to do it. I've never had file sharing software on my machine before as it's given me kind of security worries. However talking with a couple of you folks recently after I was trying to get hold of Rhythm and Sound livesets I now feel it's risk worth taking (I'm pretty good with backing my machine up) - if it's a risk at all? So before I leap lemming-like off this cliff does anyone have any last words of warning for me? Think I'm going for Soulseek since that's what I mostly hear about on here, so I guess that means it's best for 313 stuff - and hopefully for the wider musical world too? Anybody going to suggest there's a better alternative? If nobody does there are a one or two (=3) specific questions maybe somebody might be kind enough to give me a view on: Do people make 'donations'? Someone told me that this might occasionally be necessary. I gather from the Soulseek site that the version they have to download, 155, is newish, are people using this and is it stable? I also gather XP service pack 2 has given this software (and other P2P s/w also?) a headache (event ID4226 bla bla) which Soulseek recommend fixing with a patch from http://www.lvllord.de/?lang=enurl=4226patch/faq - which you should only use if you know what you're doing. Guess I'll find out whether I know what I'm doing when I do it. Has anyone come across this problem? And if so tried this fix? C'mon folks, confirm the view of those who, on hearing about a forum on Detroit techno, think I bet they talk about loads of nerdy stuff on there.
RE: (313) P2P
Hi Francis I've been using SS for some years now and I have to say, it never gave me any problems. It is a bit of a resource hog though from time 2 time. It's handy if you want to check out new music before ordering it online without knowing what it is you're buying... (well thats what I use it for, mainly) Donations give you download privileges for 30 days, wich means if you do a search and you want to download one of the results, you'll end up on top of the (if any) queue. (that is, if no one else with privileges is in that queue) Furthermore, you can make a userlist and say if you wanna share with the world, or just with ppl in that list. Handy to prevent leeches from grabbing all your shared stuff. Works excellent for me, it's free, never any security issues (running XP pro so enough issues there) so I'd just say give it a try. If you want to add me to your SLSK userlist - my UN is pascal1971. Got some nice sets to share! Cheers Pascal. Hometaping is killing music - support your local recordstore! -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Verzonden: dinsdag 11 januari 2005 14:04 Aan: '313' Onderwerp: (313) P2P No not another discussion of the ethics of it - sod the ethics I'm just going to do it. I've never had file sharing software on my machine before as it's given me kind of security worries. However talking with a couple of you folks recently after I was trying to get hold of Rhythm and Sound livesets I now feel it's risk worth taking (I'm pretty good with backing my machine up) - if it's a risk at all? So before I leap lemming-like off this cliff does anyone have any last words of warning for me? Think I'm going for Soulseek since that's what I mostly hear about on here, so I guess that means it's best for 313 stuff - and hopefully for the wider musical world too? Anybody going to suggest there's a better alternative? If nobody does there are a one or two (=3) specific questions maybe somebody might be kind enough to give me a view on: Do people make 'donations'? Someone told me that this might occasionally be necessary. I gather from the Soulseek site that the version they have to download, 155, is newish, are people using this and is it stable? I also gather XP service pack 2 has given this software (and other P2P s/w also?) a headache (event ID4226 bla bla) which Soulseek recommend fixing with a patch from http://www.lvllord.de/?lang=enurl=4226patch/faq - which you should only use if you know what you're doing. Guess I'll find out whether I know what I'm doing when I do it. Has anyone come across this problem? And if so tried this fix? C'mon folks, confirm the view of those who, on hearing about a forum on Detroit techno, think I bet they talk about loads of nerdy stuff on there.
Re: (313) P2P
Well . I'm on a Mac . and I've tried several different types of programs. mostly use . acquisition . now but find it similar to shopping at K-mart music, you can get anything obvious easy . and everything else they have never heard of . . I have tried SS for mac a couple of different ways but spend more time trying to work it' than use it final verdict . it's easy enough to find original free music buy paying attention or a small fee to the artists, so trying to get what you want buy sifting through a 1000 crap titles is just like the old days of the record shopping ' eh More interested in the broader practical uses of programs like carracho hotline ' thats what the microsound kids natter about anyway sweet .simon C'mon folks, confirm the view of those who, on hearing about a forum on Detroit techno, think I bet they talk about loads of nerdy stuff on there.
Re: (313) P2P
likewise, i don't regard p2p as the place to get quality files you'd play out. for that i do private exchanges. discogs is a great place to hook up with likeminded people. we're not talking recent releases on underground labels - i'm dealing with way out of print, rare sh*t that can't be bought anyway. there isn't any product to pay for in these cases that gives money to the label or producer. btw. robin, if as you say, downloading a file on p2p is stealing, then isn't downloading the file at emotionelectric.com also stealing? james www.jbucknell.com robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] ctric.com To 313 Org 313@hyperreal.org 10/08/04 05:03 PM cc Subject (313) P2P i agree with ani below. thing is though if you want these tracks for playing out, or whatever, mp3s (unless the very minimum of 192k, and even then) just won't cut it. it has to be be a full wav/aiff. and do you trust th person who ripped it to do a good job of recording it in? (uness ripped off cd of course) i view the p2p dl's as just a way of hearing a full preview of the material really (like you can do on any record store but with short low quality clips). once heard an you like, buy it. the dl'ing of stuff off p2ps of underground labels is basically stealing. i know i know i've heard all the arguments about how this shti should be free etc etc. but we aren't talking huge record conglomerates here (dl'ing the latest missy elliot cd is a far cry from dl'ing a downlow release). in terms of underground labels we are talking people like us just scraping together cash to get a run of 500 records out. sometimes selling parts of prized record collections on ebay to do so. to steal off people like that is wrong and will be to the detriment of our scene. ok, i've gone off on one there where it praps wasn't necessary but i wanted to get that off my chest. i am not saying that p2ps are wrong or anything like that (though replace missy elliot with cubase and downlow with ableton and you have my views on cracked software) but i think people if they dl the latest underground release off a small label and they like it and play it then they are obliged to buy really. sharing of mixes etc on p2p (unless it's a proper release off a cd) is ok tho and is what i use p2ps for when i do. robin... can't wait to hear this. regarding p2p file sharing of unreleased material, i don't condone people stealing other peoples' material. but at the same time, i believe i have the freedom to download material because i only play vinyl and will ultimately have to buy the record anyway. i know the titles i will buy when they come out, and may want a listen before shopping. also, a bit of laziness when it comes to encoding vinyl contributes to my support of sharing music on p2ps. ForwardSourceID:NT0001103E
Re: (313) P2P
likewise, i don't regard p2p as the place to get quality files you'd play out. for that i do private exchanges. discogs is a great place to hook up with likeminded people. we're not talking recent releases on underground labels - i'm dealing with way out of print, rare sh*t that can't be bought anyway. there isn't any product to pay for in these cases that gives money to the label or producer. yeah this is a slighty different scenario than i was talking about. justification of a lot of bootlegs goes along the lines of the above. btw. robin, if as you say, downloading a file on p2p is stealing, then isn't downloading the file at emotionelectric.com also stealing? :) why would it be? emotionelectric.com just hosts promo mixes by dj's. nowt wrong with that. people can hear tracks in a mix setting and because _all_ mixes have tracklists you can then track that release down and buy it (if available). as far as i know, no-one says i have this track on a mix so i'm not gonna shell out on the vinyl robin...
Re: (313) P2P
:) why would it be? emotionelectric.com just hosts promo mixes by dj's. nowt wrong with that. pragmatically I agree - technically however, you're reproducing copyright musical works and sound recordings and making them available online, without the licence of the respective owners. That amounts to copyright infringement in most developed countries.
Re: (313) P2P
:) why would it be? emotionelectric.com just hosts promo mixes by dj's. nowt wrong with that. pragmatically I agree - technically however, you're reproducing copyright musical works and sound recordings and making them available online, without the licence of the respective owners. That amounts to copyright infringement in most developed countries. yeah i guess it does. if you really want to get picky about it. as does playing these tracks as part of a mix on radio (online or otherwise). and i think technically playing records out in public ie. at a club. so where does this leave us? robin...
Re: (313) P2P
yeah i guess it does. if you really want to get picky about it. as does playing these tracks as part of a mix on radio (online or otherwise). and i think technically playing records out in public ie. at a club. you'll actually find that virtually all terrestrial radio stations (bar the odd pirate staion) in the UK have licences in place to braodcast musical works. Most clubs will have public performance licences too. Online is a different story though.
RE: (313) P2P
-Original Message- From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11 August 2004 11:16 as does playing these tracks as part of a mix on radio (online or otherwise). and i think technically playing records out in public ie. at a club. so where does this leave us? Juno, Piccadilly and other online record shops can't host clips of tracks any more, for one... Radio stations need to pay fees to the PRS (in the UK) as they do generate money off the back of the music they play. So do licensed clubs and bars and so on - part of the reason why people go to these places is to hear music, and so the people who make the music need to be paid. I think the line would be crossed if someone hosted online mixes, charged people for downloading them, and didn't pass any revenue on to the artists whose tracks appeared on the mixes. As it is, online mixes are pretty much promotional devices for underground records, and there are tonnes of records I own which I first heard on online mixes. They've replaced mixtapes in that sense, I'd say. Ah, mixtapes... gets all nostalgic Brendan
RE: (313) P2P
-Original Message- From: Rc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11 August 2004 11:24 you'll actually find that virtually all terrestrial radio stations (bar the odd pirate staion) in the UK have licences in place to braodcast musical works. Most clubs will have public performance licences too. Online is a different story though. Yeah; most websites don't make any money, while clubs and radio stations do... Brendan
Re: (313) P2P
you'll actually find that virtually all terrestrial radio stations (bar the odd pirate staion) in the UK have licences in place to braodcast musical works. Most clubs will have public performance licences too. Online is a different story though. heh, point taken. bottom line is: do we care that when i play my UR records at a rave in a warehouse that i'm technically infringing some licensing law. i'm sure the UR folk don't. and i'm sure they wouldn't mind their stuff appearing in online mixes (i see no gain from hosting anything on my site). robin...
Re: (313) P2P
Juno, Piccadilly and other online record shops can't host clips of tracks any more, for one... Why B?
RE: (313) P2P
-Original Message- From: Martin Dust [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11 August 2004 11:30 Juno, Piccadilly and other online record shops can't host clips of tracks any more, for one... Why B? I was just pointing out the sorts of things that would change if hosting low-quality segments of copyrighted musical works online was absolutely outlawed. Effectively, part of a track appearing as part of an mp3 mix is no different to part of a track appearing as a preview clip on a record shop's website. Neither is anything like the equivalent of *owning* a track, which is why I reckon that hosting mp3 mixes online isn't a bad thing... (..so long as the site hosting the mixes isn't money-making and every effort is taken to provide full tracklist info, of course!) Brendan
Re: (313) P2P House Music
soulseek do a search in google or try slsk.org sometimes there main site is down so if it doesn't work do a google search there are a couple of house rooms i'm usually in the electro room handle is plaztikjezuz -scotto lansing, mi. plaztikjezuz.com - Original Message - From: Chris Anglesey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@Hyperreal.ORG Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 10:55 AM Subject: (313) P2P House Music Hola 313 Peepz, I'm trying to find a good P2P site where I can download house music tracks/clips in order to assist me in my vinyl buying. I've tried Kazaa and Winmx previously but these seem to be bogged down by adware,slow downloads and a selection which seems to be more focussed on commercial, chart based stuff. I'd really appreciate any tips. Chris.
Re: (313) p2p
www.slsk.org Michael (tangible.mesu kasumai) http://tangible.8bitpeoples.com http://mesukasumai.8bitpeoples.com http://molotov.experimedia.net - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 11:51 PM Subject: (313) p2p howdy peeps anyone got any good file sharing sites ? i used to use winmx but it sems to be a bit underwhelming these days. thanx. p
