Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
Kelly, Stephen wrote: How can they? And why would they. Who just stands still and doesn't grow, both as people and artists... but who are tg relevant to now?.. apart from their old fans?.. do you know what i mean?.. there are going to be a lot of fat, balding blokes in berlin on new years eve.. Such a curiously phrased sentiment. Based on what you've said, it sounds like having an audience full of fat, balding blokes, who for all you know could very well have been TOPY youth back in the day, is somehow a step down, or even inauspicous, for TG. It makes me wonder what significance you think being relevant to a presumably younger audience has.
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
Martin Dust wrote: On 29 Nov 2005, at 15:49, Kent Williams wrote: I've read through his websites, and interviews over the years, so I know he's always thought carefully about what he does, and that he's serious. But like a lot of artists I could name, I am not sold on the end product. The process is still interesting though, not everything is about A or B, sometime the journey is more interesting... For me, the attraction has always been the content. I appreciate the inner consistency of their approach amidst the sheer variability of their musical output. I'd agree with Martin that there is very little that is A or B with TG. The becoming-journey is the focal point. I do wish I could see them live
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
The process is still interesting though, not everything is about A or B, sometimes the journey is more interesting... For me, the attraction has always been the content. I appreciate the inner consistency of their approach amidst the sheer variability of their musical output. I'd agree with Martin that there is very little that is A or B with TG. The becoming-journey is the focal point. I do wish I could see them live There's a DVD coming out soon, if you look closely you can see Surgeon down the front, having it large :) I'll always have a soft spot for them and the Cabs as they are the two groups that started me on this journey. Really enjoyed the last couple of albums from both as well, certain more interesting than re-workings of the sound of 1988... m
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
Jamie Stewart wrote: Sweet feckin jesus. I didn't think p orridge could shock me any longer but that last image popped my eye. Nasty. http://www.genesisp-orridge.com/ I still find it inspiring that he has maintained all these years. The spirit lives on. Wish I could see TG live :((
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
They play Barcelona in March :) On 29 Nov 2005, at 03:12, darnistle wrote: Jamie Stewart wrote: Sweet feckin jesus. I didn't think p orridge could shock me any longer but that last image popped my eye. Nasty. http://www.genesisp-orridge.com/ I still find it inspiring that he has maintained all these years. The spirit lives on. Wish I could see TG live :((
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
Gen has always depended on shock to make his point, and he's made a few valid points along the way -- the primary one being to use any means necessary to resist subsumption into capitalist money making machine. One day, Throbbing Gristle has Parliement up in arms, the next, someone's trying to turn the outrage into something to make money from. On the other hand, there are people out there who make art that doesn't need to be offensive to be affecting and relevant. Case in point -- the rest of the TG crew's work after TG, which remained edgey and wonderful without being a complete freak show. Others might disagree with me, but I'd be a whole lot more impressed with Gen if he'd stop trying to make himself into a homely middle aged tart to scare the citizens and really get down to cases musically. It's especially interesting -- for the purposes of this list -- to contrast the work ethic that Detroit Techno artists bring to the music with whatever the hell it is that Gen P Orridge is doing. The UR building -- with the garden tools in the entrance to the record store -- is far more revolutionary. On 11/28/05, darnistle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jamie Stewart wrote: Sweet feckin jesus. I didn't think p orridge could shock me any longer but that last image popped my eye. Nasty. http://www.genesisp-orridge.com/ I still find it inspiring that he has maintained all these years. The spirit lives on. Wish I could see TG live :((
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
OK, I'll bite Gen has always depended on shock to make his point, and he's made a few valid points along the way -- the primary one being to use any means necessary to resist subsumption into capitalist money making machine. One day, Throbbing Gristle has Parliement up in arms, the next, someone's trying to turn the outrage into something to make money from. If you think he's gone through what he has just to shock people, you probably need to think it through again because it's wrong on many levels. There's no doubt he does things to make you question things but pure shock is more Whitehouse than G-PO... On the other hand, there are people out there who make art that doesn't need to be offensive to be affecting and relevant. Case in point -- the rest of the TG crew's work after TG, which remained edgey and wonderful without being a complete freak show. Others might disagree with me, but I'd be a whole lot more impressed with Gen if he'd stop trying to make himself into a homely middle aged tart to scare the citizens and really get down to cases musically. Classic judging the book by it's cover, get your head out of the Daily Mail, since TG have you followed his work much? It's especially interesting -- for the purposes of this list -- to contrast the work ethic that Detroit Techno artists bring to the music with whatever the hell it is that Gen P Orridge is doing. The UR building -- with the garden tools in the entrance to the record store -- is far more revolutionary. Square peg and round hole spring to mind... m On 11/28/05, darnistle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jamie Stewart wrote: Sweet feckin jesus. I didn't think p orridge could shock me any longer but that last image popped my eye. Nasty. http://www.genesisp-orridge.com/ I still find it inspiring that he has maintained all these years. The spirit lives on. Wish I could see TG live :((
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
There's obviously no accounting for taste -- and I'm def. not slagging yours. I've heard a lot of Psychic TV over the years without it ever really getting under my skin. Not my cup of whatever. If you're a fan and Gen's work is meaningful to you, that's great. My first paragraph says precisely that I _don't_ think he just does things to shock. I've read through his websites, and interviews over the years, so I know he's always thought carefully about what he does, and that he's serious. But like a lot of artists I could name, I am not sold on the end product. At the end of the day, there's so much music worth a listen out there that I've given up trying to keep current on everything, and follow my nose. And I live in Iowa, USA, so I've yet to get my head into the Daily Mail. And anyway, while one should not judge a book by its cover, artists definitely limit their audience with the cover they choose for their books. On 11/29/05, Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I'll bite Gen has always depended on shock to make his point, and he's made a few valid points along the way -- the primary one being to use any means necessary to resist subsumption into capitalist money making machine. One day, Throbbing Gristle has Parliement up in arms, the next, someone's trying to turn the outrage into something to make money from. If you think he's gone through what he has just to shock people, you probably need to think it through again because it's wrong on many levels. There's no doubt he does things to make you question things but pure shock is more Whitehouse than G-PO... On the other hand, there are people out there who make art that doesn't need to be offensive to be affecting and relevant. Case in point -- the rest of the TG crew's work after TG, which remained edgey and wonderful without being a complete freak show. Others might disagree with me, but I'd be a whole lot more impressed with Gen if he'd stop trying to make himself into a homely middle aged tart to scare the citizens and really get down to cases musically. Classic judging the book by it's cover, get your head out of the Daily Mail, since TG have you followed his work much? It's especially interesting -- for the purposes of this list -- to contrast the work ethic that Detroit Techno artists bring to the music with whatever the hell it is that Gen P Orridge is doing. The UR building -- with the garden tools in the entrance to the record store -- is far more revolutionary. Square peg and round hole spring to mind... m
RE: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
-Original Message- From: Kent Williams said: Gen has always depended on shock to make his point, Point? What point? Maybe the 'point' is that there is no point. I certainly couldn't find one, even if I did find stuff in TG and after which I could enjoy. The question is why should anyone who makes art, make art that you don't find offensive? If you don't like it, don't look at it and don't buy it. (I say this as a person who's not particularly a fan of TG and as someone for whom TG's latest look is not particularly my cup of tea.) It seems muddle-headed to defend someone's right to do what they want to do artistically, so long as it doesn't offend you. SNIP On the other hand, there are people out there who make art that doesn't need to be offensive to be affecting and relevant. Case in point -- the rest of the TG crew's work after TG, which remained edgey and wonderful without being a complete freak show. Others might disagree with me, but I'd be a whole lot more impressed with Gen if he'd stop trying to make himself into a homely middle aged tart to scare the citizens and really get down to cases musically. It's especially interesting -- for the purposes of this list -- to contrast the work ethic that Detroit Techno artists bring to the music with whatever the hell it is that Gen P Orridge is doing. The UR building -- with the garden tools in the entrance to the record store -- is far more revolutionary. Massive fan as I am of UR (etc) that I am, I still find myself asking what the hell relevance do they have vis a vis any one else's type of self-expression? What you say about their work ethic might well be true, but it's a sterile point in the context of this topic. Ken
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
On 29 Nov 2005, at 15:49, Kent Williams wrote: There's obviously no accounting for taste -- and I'm def. not slagging yours. I have none so don't worry Kent :) I've heard a lot of Psychic TV over the years without it ever really getting under my skin. Not my cup of whatever. If you're a fan and Gen's work is meaningful to you, that's great. My first paragraph says precisely that I _don't_ think he just does things to shock. Agreed. I've read through his websites, and interviews over the years, so I know he's always thought carefully about what he does, and that he's serious. But like a lot of artists I could name, I am not sold on the end product. The process is still interesting though, not everything is about A or B, sometime the journey is more interesting... At the end of the day, there's so much music worth a listen out there that I've given up trying to keep current on everything, and follow my nose. Always worth a dip tho... And I live in Iowa, USA, so I've yet to get my head into the Daily Mail. Unlucky and lucky - just watch Fox News, you get the picture. And anyway, while one should not judge a book by its cover, artists definitely limit their audience with the cover they choose for their books. If you aren't willing to look beyond the cover, well you know the rest... :) On 11/29/05, Martin Dust [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I'll bite Gen has always depended on shock to make his point, and he's made a few valid points along the way -- the primary one being to use any means necessary to resist subsumption into capitalist money making machine. One day, Throbbing Gristle has Parliement up in arms, the next, someone's trying to turn the outrage into something to make money from. If you think he's gone through what he has just to shock people, you probably need to think it through again because it's wrong on many levels. There's no doubt he does things to make you question things but pure shock is more Whitehouse than G-PO... On the other hand, there are people out there who make art that doesn't need to be offensive to be affecting and relevant. Case in point -- the rest of the TG crew's work after TG, which remained edgey and wonderful without being a complete freak show. Others might disagree with me, but I'd be a whole lot more impressed with Gen if he'd stop trying to make himself into a homely middle aged tart to scare the citizens and really get down to cases musically. Classic judging the book by it's cover, get your head out of the Daily Mail, since TG have you followed his work much? It's especially interesting -- for the purposes of this list -- to contrast the work ethic that Detroit Techno artists bring to the music with whatever the hell it is that Gen P Orridge is doing. The UR building -- with the garden tools in the entrance to the record store -- is far more revolutionary. Square peg and round hole spring to mind... m
RE: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
as a fan, i'm not sure that this throbbing gristle stand for the same things as before.. and that's what's most shocking to me..
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
On 11/29/05, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Massive fan as I am of UR (etc) that I am, I still find myself asking what the hell relevance do they have vis a vis any one else's type of self-expression? What you say about their work ethic might well be true, but it's a sterile point in the context of this topic. i see kent's point, being that for UR everything culminates in their bringing in new people, graduating the old guys, and generally keeping the cycle of music as the main focal point. of course im also a fan of people who use spectacle in their art as well, such as lee perry or sun ra. all i know about TG or psychick TV is that the stuff around their music always seemed more interesting than most of the actual music itself, which is fine and dandy really, but it keeps them from being inspirational to me outside of the really remedial appreciation i have for things underground and contrary. id much rather rock some coil, or some other old experimental/industrial stuff. tom
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
How can they? And why would they. Who just stands still and doesn't grow, both as people and artists... On 29 Nov 2005, at 16:37, Kelly, Stephen wrote: as a fan, i'm not sure that this throbbing gristle stand for the same things as before.. and that's what's most shocking to me..
RE: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
How can they? And why would they. Who just stands still and doesn't grow, both as people and artists... but who are tg relevant to now?.. apart from their old fans?.. do you know what i mean?.. there are going to be a lot of fat, balding blokes in berlin on new years eve.. as a long time fan i just find it confusing.. the last thing i expect tg to be is predictable though, and perhaps this is the least predictable thing tg could have done..
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
On 29 Nov 2005, at 17:11, Kelly, Stephen wrote: How can they? And why would they. Who just stands still and doesn't grow, both as people and artists... but who are tg relevant to now?.. apart from their old fans?.. do you know what i mean?.. there are going to be a lot of fat, balding blokes in berlin on new years eve.. as a long time fan i just find it confusing.. the last thing i expect tg to be is predictable though, and perhaps this is the least predictable thing tg could have done.. I do know what you mean, I went to see Stiff Little Fingers a while a go and had to leave for a number of reasons :) I'd guess that there's plenty of people who didn't see them back in the day or who have got into them now. I think there stuff is still very relevant but I've no idea who's listening. the last thing i expect tg to be is predictable though That'll be the old age setting in m
RE: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
I do know what you mean, I went to see Stiff Little Fingers a while a go and had to leave for a number of reasons :) exactly.. the kids are listening to stuff like nu monkey which to my ears is bollocks, but there you go - our dads thought tg were bollocks too..
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
Sweet feckin jesus. I didn't think p orridge could shock me any longer but that last image popped my eye. Nasty. http://www.genesisp-orridge.com/ vmax wrote: It would be nice to see them come to the states.. On Nov 24, 2005, at 10:30 AM, Martin Dust wrote: They play Barcelona in March :) On 24 Nov 2005, at 15:23, vmax wrote: I agree, it is going to be a great night for all that attend.. I would like to be there as well.. On Nov 24, 2005, at 5:33 AM, Martin Dust wrote: Looks pretty good, wish I could make it over, they're doing great stuff at the moment... m On 24 Nov 2005, at 10:31, Blaauw, Martijn de wrote: Interessting news for some of u on this list.i guess:-) Sorry of this is mentioned before.. 'UK quartet Throbbing Gristle ?q=title/Throbbing+Gristle will perform two exclusive concerts for New Year's at Volksbühne in Berlin, Germany. The two gigs will be different performances with the second being a seated event with TG ?q=title/ TG will create a new live soundtrack to Derek Jarman ?q=title/Derek+Jarman 's 1980 film In The Shadow Of The Sun. A brand new studio album Part Two is TG's first in 25 years and will be made available the Volksbühne gigs first. A major new TG / Industrial Records ?q=title/Industrial +Records exhibition INDUSTRIAL ANNUAL REPORT will be shown at Kunst-Werke Institute for Contemporary Art ?q=title/Kunst-Werke+Institute+for+Contemporary +Art , Berlin opening on 30th December through to March 2006. Dec.31 2005 Berlin,DE ~ Volksbühne (concert) Jan.01,2006 Berlin,DE ~ Volksbühne (soundtrack performance)' Martijn
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
yeah, his tattoo is crooked. - Original Message - From: Jamie Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vmax [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 4:15 PM Subject: Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin Sweet feckin jesus. I didn't think p orridge could shock me any longer but that last image popped my eye. Nasty. http://www.genesisp-orridge.com/ vmax wrote: It would be nice to see them come to the states.. On Nov 24, 2005, at 10:30 AM, Martin Dust wrote: They play Barcelona in March :) On 24 Nov 2005, at 15:23, vmax wrote: I agree, it is going to be a great night for all that attend.. I would like to be there as well.. On Nov 24, 2005, at 5:33 AM, Martin Dust wrote: Looks pretty good, wish I could make it over, they're doing great stuff at the moment... m On 24 Nov 2005, at 10:31, Blaauw, Martijn de wrote: Interessting news for some of u on this list.i guess:-) Sorry of this is mentioned before.. 'UK quartet Throbbing Gristle ?q=title/Throbbing+Gristle will perform two exclusive concerts for New Year's at Volksbühne in Berlin, Germany. The two gigs will be different performances with the second being a seated event with TG ?q=title/ TG will create a new live soundtrack to Derek Jarman ?q=title/Derek+Jarman 's 1980 film In The Shadow Of The Sun. A brand new studio album Part Two is TG's first in 25 years and will be made available the Volksbühne gigs first. A major new TG / Industrial Records ?q=title/Industrial +Records exhibition INDUSTRIAL ANNUAL REPORT will be shown at Kunst-Werke Institute for Contemporary Art ?q=title/Kunst-Werke+Institute+for+Contemporary +Art , Berlin opening on 30th December through to March 2006. Dec.31 2005 Berlin,DE ~ Volksbühne (concert) Jan.01,2006 Berlin,DE ~ Volksbühne (soundtrack performance)' Martijn
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
Looks pretty good, wish I could make it over, they're doing great stuff at the moment... m On 24 Nov 2005, at 10:31, Blaauw, Martijn de wrote: Interessting news for some of u on this list.i guess:-) Sorry of this is mentioned before.. 'UK quartet Throbbing Gristle ?q=title/Throbbing+Gristle will perform two exclusive concerts for New Year's at Volksbühne in Berlin, Germany. The two gigs will be different performances with the second being a seated event with TG ?q=title/TG will create a new live soundtrack to Derek Jarman ?q=title/Derek+Jarman 's 1980 film In The Shadow Of The Sun. A brand new studio album Part Two is TG's first in 25 years and will be made available the Volksbühne gigs first. A major new TG / Industrial Records ?q=title/Industrial+Records exhibition INDUSTRIAL ANNUAL REPORT will be shown at Kunst-Werke Institute for Contemporary Art ?q=title/Kunst-Werke+Institute+for+Contemporary+Art , Berlin opening on 30th December through to March 2006. Dec.31 2005 Berlin,DE ~ Volksbühne (concert) Jan.01,2006 Berlin,DE ~ Volksbühne (soundtrack performance)' Martijn
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
I agree, it is going to be a great night for all that attend.. I would like to be there as well.. On Nov 24, 2005, at 5:33 AM, Martin Dust wrote: Looks pretty good, wish I could make it over, they're doing great stuff at the moment... m On 24 Nov 2005, at 10:31, Blaauw, Martijn de wrote: Interessting news for some of u on this list.i guess:-) Sorry of this is mentioned before.. 'UK quartet Throbbing Gristle ?q=title/Throbbing+Gristle will perform two exclusive concerts for New Year's at Volksbühne in Berlin, Germany. The two gigs will be different performances with the second being a seated event with TG ?q=title/ TG will create a new live soundtrack to Derek Jarman ? q=title/Derek+Jarman 's 1980 film In The Shadow Of The Sun. A brand new studio album Part Two is TG's first in 25 years and will be made available the Volksbühne gigs first. A major new TG / Industrial Records ?q=title/Industrial+Records exhibition INDUSTRIAL ANNUAL REPORT will be shown at Kunst-Werke Institute for Contemporary Art ?q=title/Kunst-Werke+Institute+for+Contemporary +Art , Berlin opening on 30th December through to March 2006. Dec.31 2005 Berlin,DE ~ Volksbühne (concert) Jan.01,2006 Berlin,DE ~ Volksbühne (soundtrack performance)' Martijn
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
They play Barcelona in March :) On 24 Nov 2005, at 15:23, vmax wrote: I agree, it is going to be a great night for all that attend.. I would like to be there as well.. On Nov 24, 2005, at 5:33 AM, Martin Dust wrote: Looks pretty good, wish I could make it over, they're doing great stuff at the moment... m On 24 Nov 2005, at 10:31, Blaauw, Martijn de wrote: Interessting news for some of u on this list.i guess:-) Sorry of this is mentioned before.. 'UK quartet Throbbing Gristle ?q=title/Throbbing+Gristle will perform two exclusive concerts for New Year's at Volksbühne in Berlin, Germany. The two gigs will be different performances with the second being a seated event with TG ?q=title/TG will create a new live soundtrack to Derek Jarman ?q=title/Derek+Jarman 's 1980 film In The Shadow Of The Sun. A brand new studio album Part Two is TG's first in 25 years and will be made available the Volksbühne gigs first. A major new TG / Industrial Records ?q=title/Industrial+Records exhibition INDUSTRIAL ANNUAL REPORT will be shown at Kunst-Werke Institute for Contemporary Art ?q=title/Kunst-Werke+Institute+for+Contemporary+Art , Berlin opening on 30th December through to March 2006. Dec.31 2005 Berlin,DE ~ Volksbühne (concert) Jan.01,2006 Berlin,DE ~ Volksbühne (soundtrack performance)' Martijn
Re: (313) Throbbing Gristle Live in Berlin
It would be nice to see them come to the states.. On Nov 24, 2005, at 10:30 AM, Martin Dust wrote: They play Barcelona in March :) On 24 Nov 2005, at 15:23, vmax wrote: I agree, it is going to be a great night for all that attend.. I would like to be there as well.. On Nov 24, 2005, at 5:33 AM, Martin Dust wrote: Looks pretty good, wish I could make it over, they're doing great stuff at the moment... m On 24 Nov 2005, at 10:31, Blaauw, Martijn de wrote: Interessting news for some of u on this list.i guess:-) Sorry of this is mentioned before.. 'UK quartet Throbbing Gristle ?q=title/Throbbing+Gristle will perform two exclusive concerts for New Year's at Volksbühne in Berlin, Germany. The two gigs will be different performances with the second being a seated event with TG ?q=title/ TG will create a new live soundtrack to Derek Jarman ?q=title/Derek+Jarman 's 1980 film In The Shadow Of The Sun. A brand new studio album Part Two is TG's first in 25 years and will be made available the Volksbühne gigs first. A major new TG / Industrial Records ?q=title/Industrial +Records exhibition INDUSTRIAL ANNUAL REPORT will be shown at Kunst-Werke Institute for Contemporary Art ?q=title/Kunst-Werke+Institute+for+Contemporary +Art , Berlin opening on 30th December through to March 2006. Dec.31 2005 Berlin,DE ~ Volksbühne (concert) Jan.01,2006 Berlin,DE ~ Volksbühne (soundtrack performance)' Martijn
