Re(2): 4D Write Pro interface plug in or component?

[Don Lapin via 4D_Tech]

Hi Ingo,

The sample db generates a range-check error on startup (v16 R3 Windows, US), 
and other errors after cancelling various menu actions: "improper file name 
during export", "operation not compatible with the two arguments", "...is an 
invalid name for a file", "boolean argument expected", etc. 

The menus run together visually ("File Edit Display Insert..."), possibly due 
to the font used for the English version(?) The menu drop-downs do not stop 
displaying on a second click, which is the expected UI behavior. When I click 
into a selection of text, the toolbar does not display the style of the 
selection, but instead remains on the last menu item selected. I haven't found 
where styles can be defined or modified. There do not appear to be options for 
file types in the Import... and Export... menu items.

Regarding 4D Write Pro itself, the "4D_Write_Pro_v16.pdf" document lists a 
minuscule selection of 23 available commands...compared to perhaps 100(?) in 4D 
Write. And the document doesn't provide parameters or information on how to use 
the commands. Surely I must be missing something, because there doesn't even 
appear to be a way to procedurally insert text or define styles.

I admire the commitment of the DDD Group in beginning to address such an 
obvious foible as the UI in the 4D Write Pro offering. It's a start - thank you!

But it shouldn't be left to the community to provide a usable interface for a 
feature which has been touted for the past two years. 

I don't want to receive scores of phone calls asking where the File menu is, or 
how to export to Microsoft Word. So staying with the old plug-in is the only 
option for now. I'll worry about customers with 64-bit OSs some time in the 
future.

Thanks for your ideas and suggestions,
Don


>Hi,
>
>have a look at 
>
>HTH
>Ingo Wolf
>
>


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Re: 4D Write Pro interface plug in or component?

[Keith Culotta via 4D_Tech]

As mentioned in Ortwin's link, the Widget and the WPro area are separate.  
Another alternative would be to put the Widget in a floating window OPEN WINDOW 
and DIALOG(*).  Most parts of the Widget worked when I tested that (I think I 
had to use the variable name), but there were problems with the Expressions 
page.

Keith - CDI

> On Jul 11, 2017, at 5:50 AM, Ortwin Zillgen via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> http://.mettre.de/wp/the-real-estate-blues/#english
> 
> Grüße/regards
> Ortwin Zillgen 

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Re: 4D Write Pro interface plug in or component?

[Ortwin Zillgen via 4D_Tech]

http://.mettre.de/wp/the-real-estate-blues/#english

Grüße/regards
Ortwin Zillgen
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Re: 4D Write Pro interface plug in or component?

[Benedict, Tom via 4D_Tech]

John DeSoi writes:

>> On Jul 10, 2017, at 5:55 PM, John Baughman via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>>
>> Pro looks to be a good upgrade, but I hate the fact that it comes without a 
>> typical word processor user interface built in. I just don't have time to 
>> create the interface.

>Agree. The application I am working on only used it for online help and one 
>template based table. It was much easier (and less expensive) to convert 
>everything to use markdown instead.

We used 4D Write for years as a styled text editor with rulers. It didn't need 
any DB integration. Finally moved that functionality to a Javascript Text 
Editor. Works great.


Tom Benedict
Optum Inc
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Re: 4D Write Pro interface plug in or component?

[Jeremy French via 4D_Tech]

Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_fFafP-hgs&feature=em-subs_digest


> On Jul 11, 2017, at 6:41 AM, Ingo Wolf via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> have a look at  >

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Re: 4D Write Pro interface plug in or component?

[Ingo Wolf via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

have a look at 

HTH
Ingo Wolf


>Hello,
>
>I have just started looking at the 4D Write Pro interface. 
>
>Currently I have an "old" (current) 4D Write area embedded into a fairly 
>complex form (25 tabs, lots of fields and listboxes, etc.). The program 
>generates complex, multi-page documents procedurally using 4D Write commands.
>
>When the users work with the current 4D Write interface, it looks like a 
>normal word processor, and they know what to do without help. Click into some 
>text to see the style sheet. There's adequate room to see the document and its 
>margins.
>
>The "new" interface consists of a stylized widget on the right side, which 
>consumes about one third of the available form space. No menus. The ruler is 
>three times as thick as the old one. There don't appear to be open and save 
>options. 
>
>Tech support suggested that if I wanted a more conventional interface, I could 
>create it myself.
>
>Is anyone aware of a plug-in or component that provides a normal interface for 
>4D Write Pro? Or is 4D Write Pro actually intended for some other use than its 
>predecessor?
>
>Thanks,
>Don 


-- 
ViELMAC Ingo Wolf
Rheinhessenring 53A
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Re: 4D Write Pro interface plug in or component?

[John DeSoi via 4D_Tech]

> On Jul 10, 2017, at 5:55 PM, John Baughman via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Pro looks to be a good upgrade, but I hate the fact that it comes without a 
> typical word processor user interface built in. I just don’t have time to 
> create the interface.

Agree. The application I am working on only used it for online help and one 
template based table. It was much easier (and less expensive) to convert 
everything to use markdown instead. 

John DeSoi, Ph.D.

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Re: 4D Write Pro interface plug in or component?

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

John:

"Pro looks to be a good upgrade, but I hate the fact that it comes without
a typical word processor user interface built in. I just don’t have time to
create the interface."
I'm glad that tables are in this new version as well as the native ability
to "keep (paragraphs) with next" but it's a complete disappointment that I
don't have a "snap in" UI.

It's a little hard to tell a client that we can upgrade 4D Write but it'll
cost them a few thousand dollars for an interface.

I've already done "keep with next" in native code and the current
tables, clunky as they are, will suffice. I'd rather my clients spend their
money on things that add value.


--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 3:55 PM, John Baughman via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> I have a similar situation and found the provided widget to be somewhat
> lacking and not very intuitive. I am currently in the process of upgrading
> a couple of database that use 4D Write extensively with as with Don’s case
> very complex forms. What I have done is to add pages to the form that
> duplicate the 4D Write pages but include 4D Write Pro pages. The user has
> the option to use either. Existing documents and templates are converted to
> Pro if Pro is used. In this way I am hoping to move the end users to 4D
> Write Pro gradually.
>
> Several issues…
>
> 1. The widget, just does not hack it. If, however, you can get used to
> using the contextual menu you really do not need the widget and all of what
> the widget is missing can be found in the contextual menu.
>
> 2. R release must be used if you want the ruler. One of my clients is not
> on maintenance and will have to wait for 16.2.
>
> 3. There is no way to put an image behind text as you could in 4D Write.
> Choices are either in line or on the background (in the corners, mosaic, or
> full page). R3 includes tables. I am hoping that using tables will resolve
> this issue, but have not tried it yet. This is for one particular client
> that has to place images in a column to the right of the body of the
> document. fortunately they are the client on maintenance I have a support
> ticket open with TS regarding this shortcoming.
>
> 4. Relating to 3 above, converting a 4D Write document with images behind
> text to 4D Write Pro loses the images.
>
> Pro looks to be a good upgrade, but I hate the fact that it comes without
> a typical word processor user interface built in. I just don’t have time to
> create the interface.
>
> John
>
>
>
> > On Jul 10, 2017, at 12:05 PM, Don Lapin via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I have just started looking at the 4D Write Pro interface.
> >
> > Currently I have an "old" (current) 4D Write area embedded into a fairly
> complex form (25 tabs, lots of fields and listboxes, etc.). The program
> generates complex, multi-page documents procedurally using 4D Write
> commands.
> >
> > When the users work with the current 4D Write interface, it looks like a
> normal word processor, and they know what to do without help. Click into
> some text to see the style sheet. There's adequate room to see the document
> and its margins.
> >
> > The "new" interface consists of a stylized widget on the right side,
> which consumes about one third of the available form space. No menus. The
> ruler is three times as thick as the old one. There don't appear to be open
> and save options.
> >
> > Tech support suggested that if I wanted a more conventional interface, I
> could create it myself.
> >
> > Is anyone aware of a plug-in or component that provides a normal
> interface for 4D Write Pro? Or is 4D Write Pro actually intended for some
> other use than its predecessor?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> > **
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Re: 4D Write Pro interface plug in or component?

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

David:

That's my understanding, as well.

Randy Engle kicked off a thread a few months ago where that was discussed
and I'm pretty certain that was the net net.

--
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949-336-2902

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 4:02 PM, David Adams via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Hey John!
>
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 8:55 AM, John Baughman via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I think he said it was an internal Slack channel.
> >
>
>
> I think the way it works is that they have to wait for 17.0. The 16.X
> branch doesn't include new features from the 16.R branch.
>
> Someone please say that I'm wrong here...if I'm wrong here. Either way,
> it's good to know for planning.
> **
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Re: 4D Write Pro interface plug in or component?

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

Hey John!

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 8:55 AM, John Baughman via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

>
> I think he said it was an internal Slack channel.
>


I think the way it works is that they have to wait for 17.0. The 16.X
branch doesn't include new features from the 16.R branch.

Someone please say that I'm wrong here...if I'm wrong here. Either way,
it's good to know for planning.
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Re: 4D Write Pro interface plug in or component?

[John Baughman via 4D_Tech]

I have a similar situation and found the provided widget to be somewhat lacking 
and not very intuitive. I am currently in the process of upgrading a couple of 
database that use 4D Write extensively with as with Don’s case very complex 
forms. What I have done is to add pages to the form that duplicate the 4D Write 
pages but include 4D Write Pro pages. The user has the option to use either. 
Existing documents and templates are converted to Pro if Pro is used. In this 
way I am hoping to move the end users to 4D Write Pro gradually. 

Several issues…

1. The widget, just does not hack it. If, however, you can get used to using 
the contextual menu you really do not need the widget and all of what the 
widget is missing can be found in the contextual menu.

2. R release must be used if you want the ruler. One of my clients is not on 
maintenance and will have to wait for 16.2.

3. There is no way to put an image behind text as you could in 4D Write. 
Choices are either in line or on the background (in the corners, mosaic, or 
full page). R3 includes tables. I am hoping that using tables will resolve this 
issue, but have not tried it yet. This is for one particular client that has to 
place images in a column to the right of the body of the document. fortunately 
they are the client on maintenance I have a support ticket open with TS 
regarding this shortcoming.

4. Relating to 3 above, converting a 4D Write document with images behind text 
to 4D Write Pro loses the images.

Pro looks to be a good upgrade, but I hate the fact that it comes without a 
typical word processor user interface built in. I just don’t have time to 
create the interface.

John



> On Jul 10, 2017, at 12:05 PM, Don Lapin via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I have just started looking at the 4D Write Pro interface. 
> 
> Currently I have an "old" (current) 4D Write area embedded into a fairly 
> complex form (25 tabs, lots of fields and listboxes, etc.). The program 
> generates complex, multi-page documents procedurally using 4D Write commands.
> 
> When the users work with the current 4D Write interface, it looks like a 
> normal word processor, and they know what to do without help. Click into some 
> text to see the style sheet. There's adequate room to see the document and 
> its margins.
> 
> The "new" interface consists of a stylized widget on the right side, which 
> consumes about one third of the available form space. No menus. The ruler is 
> three times as thick as the old one. There don't appear to be open and save 
> options. 
> 
> Tech support suggested that if I wanted a more conventional interface, I 
> could create it myself.
> 
> Is anyone aware of a plug-in or component that provides a normal interface 
> for 4D Write Pro? Or is 4D Write Pro actually intended for some other use 
> than its predecessor?
> 
> Thanks,
> Don 
> 
> 
> 
> **
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Re: 4D Write Pro interface plug in or component?

[Keith Culotta via 4D_Tech]

Don,

I feel your pain.  They took our old clunker and are giving us a collection of 
amazing car parts (plus instructions).

Here is one approach to giving the user a clue via "menus": 
http://cdinc.co/Updates/SimpleWP.zip.  It requires v16R3, which introduced some 
WPro standard actions.  

Keith - CDI

> On Jul 10, 2017, at 5:05 PM, Don Lapin via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I have just started looking at the 4D Write Pro interface. 
> 
> Currently I have an "old" (current) 4D Write area embedded into a fairly 
> complex form (25 tabs, lots of fields and listboxes, etc.). The program 
> generates complex, multi-page documents procedurally using 4D Write commands.
> 
> When the users work with the current 4D Write interface, it looks like a 
> normal word processor, and they know what to do without help. Click into some 
> text to see the style sheet. There's adequate room to see the document and 
> its margins.
> 
> The "new" interface consists of a stylized widget on the right side, which 
> consumes about one third of the available form space. No menus. The ruler is 
> three times as thick as the old one. There don't appear to be open and save 
> options. 
> 
> Tech support suggested that if I wanted a more conventional interface, I 
> could create it myself.
> 
> Is anyone aware of a plug-in or component that provides a normal interface 
> for 4D Write Pro? Or is 4D Write Pro actually intended for some other use 
> than its predecessor?
> 
> Thanks,
> Don 
> 
> 
> 
> **
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4D Write Pro interface plug in or component?

[Don Lapin via 4D_Tech]

Hello,

I have just started looking at the 4D Write Pro interface. 

Currently I have an "old" (current) 4D Write area embedded into a fairly 
complex form (25 tabs, lots of fields and listboxes, etc.). The program 
generates complex, multi-page documents procedurally using 4D Write commands.

When the users work with the current 4D Write interface, it looks like a normal 
word processor, and they know what to do without help. Click into some text to 
see the style sheet. There's adequate room to see the document and its margins.

The "new" interface consists of a stylized widget on the right side, which 
consumes about one third of the available form space. No menus. The ruler is 
three times as thick as the old one. There don't appear to be open and save 
options. 

Tech support suggested that if I wanted a more conventional interface, I could 
create it myself.

Is anyone aware of a plug-in or component that provides a normal interface for 
4D Write Pro? Or is 4D Write Pro actually intended for some other use than its 
predecessor?

Thanks,
Don 



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