Re: [9fans] source header question

[Iruatã Souza]

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 3:29 PM, EBo  wrote:
>
> I noticed that some of the plan9port .h files have "extern C" C++ compiler
> directives:
>
> #if defined(__cplusplus)
> extern "C" {
> #endif
> ...
>
> Is this actually necessary since I thought C++ was not supported in Plan
> 9, et al.
>
> Just checking...
>
>  EBo --
>
>
>

i guess you answered that yourself. does p9p run on Plan 9?

Re: [9fans] source header question

[Iruatã Souza]

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 5:41 PM, EBo  wrote:
>
>
>> i guess you answered that yourself. does p9p run on Plan 9?
>
> There a plenty of programs which are made to run under both p9p and plan9.
> So, no the question is still open, but I will rephrase it.
>
> Should any program which can run under p9p and plan9 ever be compiled with
> g++ or another c++ compilers?  Otherwise is it necessary to check for
> __cplusplus?
>

what I meant was that p9p is used on unix-like systems.
with that in mind, what if i wanted to:

% cat a.cc
#include 
#undef _XOPEN_SOURCE
#define NOPLAN9DEFINES
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 

int
main(void)
{
Point3 x = {1,0,1}, y = {0,1,1}, z;
z = add3(x,y);
std::cout << z.x << std::endl;
std::cout << z.y << std::endl;
std::cout << z.z << std::endl;
return 0;
}

% g++ -I$PLAN9/include -c a.cc && g++ -o a a.o $PLAN9/lib/libgeometry.a
% a
1
1
2

without the extern definitions?
sorry if i was harsh.

Re: [9fans] install utility

[Iruatã Souza]

maybe you want /sys/lib/dist/pc/inst

On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Iruatã Souza  wrote:
> /sys/lib/dist
>
> On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 11:59 AM, ron minnich  wrote:
>> I'm setting up an arm with a usb root. I've the fossil and venti but
>> I'm a little unclear on how the standard install populates the file
>> system -- where is that script/code anyway?
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> ron
>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] install utility

[Iruatã Souza]

/sys/lib/dist

On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 11:59 AM, ron minnich  wrote:
> I'm setting up an arm with a usb root. I've the fossil and venti but
> I'm a little unclear on how the standard install populates the file
> system -- where is that script/code anyway?
>
> thanks
>
> ron
>
>

Re: [9fans] πp

[Iruatã Souza]

2010/10/15 Jacob Todd :
> Eh,  what's Πp?

check http://iwp9.org/slides/osprey.pdf

Re: [9fans] anybody figured out a way to use acme as graphical merging tool for hg?

[Iruatã Souza]

adiff may be a good place to look at too.

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Mathieu Lonjaret
 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Maybe that would help, as a starting point?
>
> http://9fans.net/archive/2009/06/138
>
> mathieu
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Fernan Bolando 
> To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:14:15 +0800
> Subject: [9fans] anybody figured out a way to use acme as graphical merging 
> tool for hg?
> Hi all
>
> As I believe there a few hg users here. I was wondering if anybody has
> a way to use acme to resolve merge conflicts by showing the diffs in
> different panes.
>
> fernan
>
>

Re: [9fans] contrib(1) WAS: Re: wiki...

[Iruatã Souza]

On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 11:11 AM,   wrote:
> erik quanstrom  writes:
>
>>> IIRC it's based on replica(1)
>>> which rather requires ideal circumstances for correct behaviour.
>>
>> partial installs are easy to recover from.  i just used it friday to sort
>> out a file system that had a contrib package listed as installed, but it
>> hadn't been.
>
> It *would* be easy if contrib(1) properly indicated the install status
> of a package.  As it is right now, contrib/install marks a package as
> installed and THEN goes about installing it.  If anything fails, the
> install will still be marked as having been successful.  A subsequent
> contrib/install for the same package will snubly claim that the package
> has already been installed and refuse to run.  You have to supply the
> '-f' switch to make the install complete.  However, doing this requires
> (1) knowing that the install broke, and (2) that all the packages
> dependencies have been met (because -f also overrides dependency
> checking).  contrib(1) doesn't provide any way to check if a package is
> up to date, like replica/changes.  Having a contrib(1) wrapper for
> replica/changes (say, 'contrib/changes') would be very handy.  (And
> simple to write.)
>
> As for prematurely marking packages as successfully installed...
>
> This:
>
>    cat > $cfg <    ...
>    exec /bin/contrib/pull $name
>
> should probably be replaced with something like:
>
>    cat > $cfg.part <    ...
>    /bin/contrib/pull $name
>    if(~ -$status -) mv $cfg.part $cfg
>    if not {
>        echo install failed >[1=2]
>        rm $cfg.part
>        exit 'oh, crap'
>    }
>
> --

you've done all the research, why don't you send a patch?

Re: [9fans] Different results for the same rc script when using listen1

[Iruatã Souza]

On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 11:03 PM, andrey mirtchovski
 wrote:
>>   #!/usr/local/plan9/bin/9 rc
>>   echo first at path: $path(1)
>>   for (i in `{seq 1 5}){
>>       if (test $i -eq 3) {
>>           echo $i equals 3
>>       }
>>       if not echo $i is different from 3
>>   }
>
> NB: in general, you don't need 'test'. use "if (~ $i 3) {}".
>
> that said, now I'm convinced there's a bug somewhere. I got your code
> to fail under the condition that rc is started via the '9' environment
> (9 rc). the type of 'test' binary doesn't matter -- both /bin/test and
> $PLAN9/bin/test break under '9', but don't break without it. the '9'
> script is pretty simple, but there appear do be some side-effects
> (probably due to \r being transmitted over the network?). here's the
> simplest version of your script:
>
> $ cat t.rc
> #!/usr/bin/env rc
> exec rc
> $
>
> dial and test:
>
> $ dial -e 'tcp!localhost!8080'
>  no breakage
> /bin/test 1 -eq 2 ; echo $status
> 1
> /bin/test 1 -eq 1; echo $status
>
> /Users/andrey/plan9/bin/test 1 -eq 2; echo $status
> 1
> /Users/andrey/plan9/bin/test 1 -eq 1; echo $status
>
>  now see it break
> 9 rc
> /bin/test 1 -eq 2 ; echo $status
>
> /bin/test 1 -eq 1; echo $status
>
> /Users/andrey/plan9/bin/test 1 -eq 2; echo $status
>
> /Users/andrey/plan9/bin/test 1 -eq 1; echo $status
>
> ls | wc > /dev/null; echo $status
> |
> ls | wc > /dev/null; echo $status
> |||
> ls | wc > /dev/null; echo $status
> |||
> ls | wc > /dev/null; echo $status
> |||
> ls | wc > /dev/null; echo $status
> |||
>
> #back to non-breaking rc:
> exit
> echo $status
>
> ls | wc > /dev/null; echo $status
> |
> ls | wc > /dev/null; echo $status
> |
> ls | wc > /dev/null; echo $status
> |
> ls | wc > /dev/null; echo $status
> |
> ls | wc > /dev/null; echo $status
> |
>
>

I'm seeing this without the 9. It is a Ubuntu 10.04.2 LTS,

$ uname -a
Linux goitaca 2.6.32-28-generic #55-Ubuntu SMP Mon Jan 10 23:42:43 UTC
2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux

Re: [9fans] localization

[Iruatã Souza]

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 3:04 PM,   wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 05:59:08PM +0200, dexen deVries wrote:
>> browsing through uriel's slides from fosdem 2006 [1], i see him mention Plan 
>> 9
>> lacks localization. what are this lists feelings on localization (both
>> translation of strings and formatting of numbers, time etc.) of user-facing
>> applications?
>>
>> the only model i know right now is gettext() and related from GNU; there's
>> gotta be a better way; perhaps an fs for it? ;-)
>
> As an example of the joy of the localization, switching recently KerGIS
> servers from NetBSD 3.x to NetBSD 5.x, the same code recompiled would
> give errors, with cryptic messages, until I happen to pin the problem to
> the formating of numbers... I use, as a backup version of files, a text
> (mainly ASCII) transcription of the data, and use 'd.d' for example. But
> since users had LC_ALL set to french, NetBSD 3.x didn't support nor time
> neither number localization so no problem, but 5.x now does. Result :
> "french" 'd,d' was expected for input; and 'd,d' sent for output. Joy!
>
> For another mean instead of gettext(), you have what has done Donald E.
> Knuth with TeX and al: : all the strings are extracted in a "pool"
> file---a text file---, so as long as one sticks to the index (the
> position), one can provide a translated pool file to localize.
>
> Furthermore, IMHO, there are 3 levels:
>
> - 0: firmware/kernel: LANG C (a restricted faulty subset of english)
> - 1: system libraries and utils, directly used by programmers, not
> really users: LANG C (idem)
> - 2: user level scripts or programs; since they are adapted for higher
> level manipulation, the levels 0 and 1 messages have no meaning for the
> user, so it is useless to translate. And since level 2 shall match the
> user (here is the business!), this is not a problem.
>
> So, for me at least, the best solution to this difficult problem is the
> one provided for Plan9 by Rob Pile and Ken Thompson (I cite the authors
> of the "Hello World or...", i.e. UTF8.
>
> More is too much.

I tend to think that only user programs should be translated, the TeX
approach you describe seems simple enough.
As a brazilian, I have precisely the same feeling of Gabriel Diaz and
I always use the computer in English.

> I particularly enjoy good translations into my language, both in programs,
> books, films, or whatever. I find it, translating, a job to be proud of.
Good translations are very nice, but more difficult the subject of
translation is, the more trouble to find one (at least to portuguese).
And, at least in open source, it seems that translators of portuguese
can't keep themselves motived for the needed time.

Re: [9fans] Compiling 9atom kernel WAS: Re: spaces in filenames

[Iruatã Souza]

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 7:19 AM, errno  wrote:
> so I'm just speculating.)
>

really? no one has noticed.

Re: [9fans] Compiling 9atom kernel WAS: Re: spaces in filenames

[Iruatã Souza]

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Gorka Guardiola  wrote:
> Any browser anyone writes/ports needs javascript and
> that is (mostly) independant of anything else and needed, so putting some
> effort there is probably good whatever the path taken. Spidermonkey
> javascript implementation is in C and highly doable though very very boring.

I remember there was a Spidermonkey port somewhere in contrib.

iru

Re: [9fans] exportfs / u9fs / v9fs / npfs / spfs versus 9vx

[Iruatã Souza]

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Bakul Shah  wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2011 14:03:13 CDT Daniel Lyons   wrote:
>> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 11:52:30AM -0700, Bakul Shah wrote:
>> > On Thu, 12 May 2011 13:14:55 CDT Stanley Lieber 
>>  wrote:
>> > > http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/unix/u9fs
>> > >
>> > > This is the basis of the OpenBSD port.
>> >
>> > unix/9pfreebsd is really too old to be useful but may be one
>> > can start a new FreeBSD port from the openBSD bits?  I'd be
>> > interested in such a thing.
>
> I was thinking of a kernel port (mount_9ufs etc). My hopes
> were briefly raised until I realized the openBSD port is not a
> kernel port. Though I am not sure if a kernel port is worth it
> (and it is certainly a bunch of work).
>
>

http://src.oitobits.net/o9fs. It is not finished, but was written for
the OpenBSD kernel.

Re: [9fans] exportfs / u9fs / v9fs / npfs / spfs versus 9vx

[Iruatã Souza]

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Iruatã Souza  wrote:
> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Bakul Shah  wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 May 2011 14:03:13 CDT Daniel Lyons   
>> wrote:
>>> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 11:52:30AM -0700, Bakul Shah wrote:
>>> > On Thu, 12 May 2011 13:14:55 CDT Stanley Lieber 
>>>  wrote:
>>> > > http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/unix/u9fs
>>> > >
>>> > > This is the basis of the OpenBSD port.
>>> >
>>> > unix/9pfreebsd is really too old to be useful but may be one
>>> > can start a new FreeBSD port from the openBSD bits?  I'd be
>>> > interested in such a thing.
>>
>> I was thinking of a kernel port (mount_9ufs etc). My hopes
>> were briefly raised until I realized the openBSD port is not a
>> kernel port. Though I am not sure if a kernel port is worth it
>> (and it is certainly a bunch of work).
>>
>>
>
> http://src.oitobits.net/o9fs. It is not finished, but was written for
> the OpenBSD kernel.
>

sorry, it moved to https://bitbucket.org/iru/o9fs

Re: [9fans] exportfs / u9fs / v9fs / npfs / spfs versus 9vx

[Iruatã Souza]

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 3:48 AM, Bakul Shah  wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2011 20:47:04 -0300 =?UTF-8?Q?Iruat=C3=A3_Souza?= 
>   wrote:
>> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Iruat=C3=A3 Souza  wr=
>> ote:
>> > On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Bakul Shah  wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 12 May 2011 14:03:13 CDT Daniel Lyons  =
>> =C2=A0wrote:
>> >>> On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 11:52:30AM -0700, Bakul Shah wrote:
>> >>> > On Thu, 12 May 2011 13:14:55 CDT Stanley Lieber > .com>
>> >>> =C2=A0wrote:
>> >>> > > http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/unix/u9fs
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > This is the basis of the OpenBSD port.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > unix/9pfreebsd is really too old to be useful but may be one
>> >>> > can start a new FreeBSD port from the openBSD bits? =C2=A0I'd be
>> >>> > interested in such a thing.
>> >>
>> >> I was thinking of a kernel port (mount_9ufs etc). My hopes
>> >> were briefly raised until I realized the openBSD port is not a
>> >> kernel port. Though I am not sure if a kernel port is worth it
>> >> (and it is certainly a bunch of work).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > http://src.oitobits.net/o9fs. It is not finished, but was written for
>> > the OpenBSD kernel.
>> >
>>
>> sorry, it moved to https://bitbucket.org/iru/o9fs
>
> Cloned! Not sure when I will have time to play with this but
> is the TODO file uptodate? Thanks.
>

Mostly, I guess. If you are willing to hack on it, I can take a look
and update it for you.

> On Thu, 12 May 2011 15:53:15 CDT Daniel Lyons   wrote:
>> Wouldn't this be for mounting 9p *from* BSD, not exporting BSD's FS *to* 9p?
>
> Yes.
>
>

Re: [9fans] pic

[Iruatã Souza]

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Steve Simon  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would like to try to get something  running which
> would allow me to draw pic documents in a WYSIWYG style
> I have a load of rather complex drawings to do.
>
> The obvious candidates (it seems to me) are:
>
>        art (from the 2nd edition), though Andrey did stirling work
>        porting it to the draw model years ago I honestly don't feel it
>        up to the job - perhaps my lack of stamina?
>
>        cip/xcip - this is part of the blit distribution and xcip is
>        avaialable on the net these days. I have a vague memory that
>        someone got this to run on a modern OS - plan9/X11 perhaps?
>        anyone know more?
>
>        picasso - this would be x11 only and was in the later DWB
>        distributions but I seen no sign of any source for it anywhere.
>        anyone have the code which I could copy?
>
>        xfig + transfig - feels a bit like a patch on a patch and, being
>        modern unix code would (no doubt) include configure hell...
>
>        MS windows + visio, print to a file and include it as postscript
>        into my troff doc - feels like gining in.
>
> Thnaks for any help/advice.
>
> -Steve
>
>

http://figr.org/

Re: [9fans] hgfs?

[Iruatã Souza]

On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Bakul Shah  wrote:
>> Typically the way to do this is to create your own public fork, and
>> then send a pull request to the maintainer of whoever you forked from
>> since hg has the distributed model.
>
> A project idea: murkyfs -- browse not just your own mercurial
> repo and also the one you cloned from! Extra points for
> mapping hg commands like push/pull/merge/diff in a useful way.
>
> Another idea is a better integration of acem + hg.  [One side
> effect using Eclipse is I have been thinking about how one
> might build a simple IDE around acme or something similar.]
>
>
http://ueber.net/code/r/hgfs

Re: [9fans] Hey, new to this. Trying to get plan9 to work in a VM.

[Iruatã Souza]

On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Rudolf Sykora  wrote:
>> http://code.google.com/p/plan9front/
>>
>> - Andreas
>
> Why this? What's wrong with plan9? I haven't found a word about the
> reasons on the cited pages.
>
> I see there is a problem almost in every piece of plan9 code. I would
> like to see people trying to fix it, and only fork, if there is a
> reason...
> Ruda
>
>

http://code.google.com/p/plan9front/source/detail?r=bb876e773014caf09c18f4fea6be5100bddbeb2b

Re: [9fans] unable to start plan9 on atom330 in virtualbox

[Iruatã Souza]

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 9:32 PM,   wrote:
> i would like to resolve the addresses printed in the screenshot.
>
> is this the plan9 live cd? how do i extract that kernel image from the
> cd? (or extract the floppy image) or does anyone have the debug versions
> of the kernels that get build into the plan9 cd?
>

https://bitbucket.org/iru/depot/src/12ff017cc9c6/cdfpart creates a
cdboot partition for the emulated floppy in the cd.

Re: [9fans] Mousing is faster than typing but users do not believe it

[Iruatã Souza]

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 4:57 AM, Guilherme Lino  wrote:
> better with it... but generally keyboard is much faster on most day tasks,
> people just don't have the patience to learn it
>

Measuring the keyboard versus mouse speed is such a trivial experiment
to repeat.
Still, as Noah pointed out, people rely on intuition.

Re: [9fans] Mousing is faster than typing but users do not believe it

[Iruatã Souza]

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Paul Lalonde  wrote:
> It sounds easy.  But few folks on this list are HCI researchers (I'll tell
> you it's odd going from GPU design to HCI - but it's fun!).
> None of the micro-tasks (mouse vs keyboard) that folks are going on about on
> this list is meaningful to measure.  We know keyboards are good for some
> things, and mice are good for others.  Leaving off my personal religion and
> anecdotes (I use acme as my editor of choice), the only meaningful measure
> is how well the whole system functions for your tasks.  And to really
> measure that you need similar measures of expertise.  So we can compare vi
> to notepad, for example, and find that "keyboard is better than mouse" by
> some measure, but grab an expert acme user vs vi, and perhaps acme comes out
> ahead on some task completions and behind on others.
> There are, however, good models of what various interactions cost - the
> bibilography on doi 10.1145/1978942.1979088 (Bonnie John, "Using Predictive
> Human Performance Modls of Inspire and Support UI Desgin Recommendations")
> is a recent starting point on predictive modelling for interface design
> (that I have in front of me - I know there's better sources).  I'd recommend
> becoming familiar with this literature, and then trying to make the "mouse
> vs keyboard" argument witha straight face.
> Paul

I can imagine that are many different stuff to test and they can be
very complicated, and I am really sorry if I made it look like I find
HCI research is a trivial matter.

By the way, the experiment I referred to as trivial is explained in
http://www.asktog.com/SunWorldColumns/S02KeyboardVMouse3.html.

Best,
iru

> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 6:55 AM, Iruatã Souza  wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 4:57 AM, Guilherme Lino 
>> wrote:
>> > better with it... but generally keyboard is much faster on most day
>> > tasks,
>> > people just don't have the patience to learn it
>> >
>>
>> Measuring the keyboard versus mouse speed is such a trivial experiment
>> to repeat.
>> Still, as Noah pointed out, people rely on intuition.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> I'm migrating my email.  plalo...@telus.net will soon be disconnected.
>  Please use paul.a.lalo...@gmail.com from now on.
>
>

Re: [9fans] novel userspace paradigms introduced by plan 9

[Iruatã Souza]

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Connor Lane Smith  wrote:
> Still, FUSE has extended attributes, so you
> could e.g. configure a window manager just by setting attributes on
> the 'window manager filesystem' root directory.
>

something like extended attributes can be accomplished by layering file servers.
iru

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Go (Was: GNU/Linux/Plan 9 disto)

[Iruatã Souza]

http://groups.google.com/group/golang-dev/browse_thread/thread/c44be49fe9ca42e7/cb98571d81888b9f?lnk=gst&q=plan9front#cb98571d81888b9f

Re: [9fans] Ken Thompson page

[Iruatã Souza]

works for me.

2011/7/27 Lluís Batlle i Rossell :
> Hello,
>
> I just wanted the article about security and the self-referencing compiler 
> from
> Ken.
>
> http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html
> errstr: '/usr/web/who/ken' does not exist
>
> And the Wayback Machine from archive.org does not have it due to robots.txt
>
> Is this normal and expected by the site owners?
>
> Thank you,
> Lluís
>
>

Re: [9fans] fossil file system corrupts after a power cut

[Iruatã Souza]

On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 5:39 AM, kin loo  wrote:
> On Jul 26, 3:55 pm, 0in...@gmail.com (David du Colombier) wrote:
>> > fossil/flfmt -v da39a3ee5e6b4b0d3255bfef95601890afd80709 /dev/sdC0/fossil
>> > fatal error: corrupted root: vtRootUnpack
>>
>> This Venti score is wrong. This is the Venti score returned by an empty
>> Fossil file system. That's why it cannot be found in Venti.
>>
>> > /boot/fossil: cacheLocalData: addr=1 type got 0 exp 8: tag got 0 exp 1
>> > /boot/fossil: fsOpen error fsOpen: block label mismatch fsys main
>>
>> The type VtDataType was returned instead of VtDirType and the tag
>> BadTag was returned instead of RootTag. Obviously, something got wrong.
>>
>> It looks like your virtual hard disk image was corrupted
>> because of the the power outage. Especially since you used
>> the dynamically-growing qcow2 image format.
>>
>> You should make another hard disk image and rebuild
>> Fossil from your last Venti score.
>>
>> Since this score cannot be found in your Fossil super block, you
>> should extract a list of your Vac scores from your Venti server
>> with the script /sys/src/cmd/venti/words/dumpvacroots.
>>
>> --
>> David du Colombier
>
> Thank you David du Colombier, it works. I can now use the most recent
> score produced by dumpvacroots to restore  the active and archive data
> in a new qemu image. But the original 9fat partition still keeps in
> the old qcow2 image.
>

If you want the old 9fat, you can try converting the qcow2 to raw
format and mounting new image as fat in the host operating system.

Re: [9fans] OT: how do 9fans backup their Mac(book)?

[Iruatã Souza]

On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 12:07 AM, steve jenkin  wrote:
> erik quanstrom wrote on 2/10/11 1:37 PM:
>>  it's all block storage.
>>
>
> Nope.
> In the same way that RAM is finely differentiated with many
> incompatibilities & 'gotchas'.
> It's not "all memory".
>
> Go away and actually *do* the thing you are suggesting, then tell us how
> you went.
>
> Get 3-4 macbooks. Preferably a range of machines: old to new.
> Get 8-12 replacement drives, differing ages, capacities and types.
>
> Do your "just pull the drive out and copy it" multiple times on each
> machine.
> To be valid, you have to swap drives between machines and have then work
> properly.
> No cheating, fully reconstruct machines between tests.
> Wearing out screws/fittings is a classic weakness on single-assembly
> designs.
>
> Quicker solution:
>  point us to a web-page where your suggestion is done, even once.
>  Bonus for a webpage where someone does exactly what you're suggesting,
> multiple machines, many drive types.
>
> --
> Steve Jenkin, Info Tech, Systems and Design Specialist.
> 0412 786 915 (+61 412 786 915)
> PO Box 48, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA
>
> stevej...@gmail.com http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin
>
>
>

you know so much, and yet you failed to read that this is not a mac list.

Re: [9fans] all you yacc experts

[Iruatã Souza]

On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 6:54 PM, Bakul Shah  wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 08:07:21 PST ron minnich   wrote:
>> If somebody wants to look at enhancing yacc so that the extra bison
>> bits can be supported, that would probably do the trick. I have no
>> idea of the level of effort, I have not looked.
>
> After some googling I see that src/cmd/gc/bisonerrors was
> added by Russ in an evening to improve go error messages.
>
> Clinton Jeffery in his "Generating LR syntax error messages
> from examples" paper (http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jeffery/merr.pdf
> -- not sure if this is the same paper as the one in TOPLAS)
> says his Merr program works with Berkeley yacc, AT&T yacc &
> bison.  He also refers to a modified byacc called iyacc.
>
> Might it be worth looking Merr or iyacc?  Porting bison to
> plan9 seems like a hugh punishment for a quick hack:-)
> Implementing Jeffery's directly in yacc might benefit other
> parsers as well.
>
>

Sorry if it obvious, but Russ posted about the improvement on Go
errors: http://research.swtch.com/2010/01/generating-good-syntax-errors.html.

iru

Re: [9fans] 9vx instability

[Iruatã Souza]

I like some of the fun in 9front, /lib/theo in special, and I dislike
the idea of having the US constitution in /lib.
But my point is that I think it is a little bit too much having Mein
Kampf in there. It seems to me some people needed attention and adding
such a disgusting text to the tree was the obvious way to get it. As
was pointed out, people need to grow up, and I should add that one
should only make jokes that one can sustain outside the internet.
As a mostly silent contributor to 9front, I think we have interesting
technical stuff to put forth and that kind of 'look how I am
controversial' game is not one of them.

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Skip Tavakkolian
 wrote:
> this reasoning is so ridiculous that i have to believe you're trolling.
>
> the U.S. Constitution has been the foundation for the rule of law in
> this country for 200+ years, and the Gettysburg address honored the
> fallen and the ideals -- equality for all men -- that they died for.
> why would anyone think that racist propaganda or hate speech should
> have equal space in /lib?
>
> some 70 million people were killed during WWII, partly because some
> people believed the propaganda that is Mein Kampf. there's nothing
> funny about that.
>
> please, grow up!
>
> -Skip
>
> On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Jacob Todd  wrote:
>> The constitution and the gettysburg address are in there, too.
>>
>> On Nov 26, 2011 6:51 PM, "erik quanstrom"  wrote:
>>>
>>> > 9front seems to me to define itself as: having fun while getting
>>> > useful stuff done. With an emphasis in *fun* and in not taking
>>> > anything too seriously, while one the technical side favoring
>>> > simplicity and things that work.
>>> >
>>> > This might not be exactly the same original Plan 9 values, but seems
>>> > close enough. Of course in 9front there is also an element of trolling
>>> > and poking fun at itself and anything else, and I will be happy if
>>> > cat-v.org takes the blame for that.
>>> >
>>> > >  to be honest, it's one of the reasons i've stopped following 9front.
>>> > >
>>> > > to paraphrase a saying in mathematics, it's not enough to be good
>>> > > you must also be humble.  why do you think dennis' ideas took
>>> > > over?
>>> >
>>> > I think an important form of humility is not taking yourself too
>>> > seriously. For an example of this see Dennis' Anti-Foreword to The
>>> > UNIX-HATERS Handbook: http://simson.net/ref/ugh.pdf
>>> >
>>> > 9front can't claim to reach such exquisite levels of "seriousness",
>>> > but it tries.
>>> >
>>> > I suspect one of the reasons why 9front exists is because some people
>>> > in the Plan 9 community this days seem to take themselves and the
>>> > whole project a bit too seriously.
>>> >
>>> > Which is kind of weird for a project called after an Ed Wood film.
>>>
>>> uriel, what you say would make sense if the "jokes" didn't include putting
>>> mein kampf in /lib.
>>>
>>> - erik
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [9fans] How to mange cwfs on 9front?

[Iruatã Souza]

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:04 AM,   wrote:
> Hi
>
> I just installed 9front on a Celeron 2.8GHz with 1GB mashine
> on a 40GB hard drive. :-)   Yes, I just tried it for test.
> (When I used 528MB memory, I was rejected by insufficient memory).
>
> I know 9front doesn't add anything new to Plan 9.   However, I'm interested
> how they implemented Ken's fs to a user space where any user process can run.
>
> How I can control the cwfs (on the terminal above)?  In the Ken's fileserver
> we have a special console to control the fileserver.   However, I could not
> find such a console on 9front...
>

9front adds new stuff, see http://code.google.com/p/plan9front/wiki/features.
Cwfs(4) (the user space Ken fs) was not written by 9front, and is
available on Plan 9 as well. To use it, please read cwfs(4) and fs(8).

Re: [9fans] i can't write to my disk

[Iruatã Souza]

how are you rebooting?

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 10:39 AM, visof  wrote:
> hello
> i can't write to my disk in plan9, i tried to copy glenda/bin/rc/
> riostart to my user but when i reboot, i got it disappear , also when
> i modified any file like termrc, i got no modification after reboot,
> what is the problem?
> Thanks
>

Re: [9fans] Plan 9/plan9port coding conventions

[Iruatã Souza]

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 7:20 PM, John Floren  wrote:
>
>> (1) For example, P9 code tends to use variable names like "i" and "j",
>> where I would typically use self-documenting variable names like "row"
>> and "col".  Variable names like "row" and "col" are much easier to
>> search for (i.e., with a right-click), too.  Names like "i" and "j"
>> (which occur in many identifiers) will generate many false positives.
>
> If everyone in the world uses i and j as row/column indexes into
> arrays, aren't they self-documenting?
>
> One reason is that in FORTRAN, identifiers that began with I
> through...  N? were automatically integers.  Thus, I and J were easy.
> There may be a good reason for that, I've heard that it came from
> quaternions but that may be false.
>
>

When you do software for physics it seems generally better if the code
has similar/analogous notation to the derivations you're dealing with.
In that case one letter variables often render a direct understanding
while more descriptive names do not.

iru

Re: [9fans] Real time Glenda

[Iruatã Souza]

On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 4:38 PM, Don Bailey  wrote:
> Has anyone attempted to create a real time version of Plan 9? What would this 
> effort require? Would substantial changes to the kernel be needed?
>
> D

http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/real_time/

Re: [9fans] I will buy laptop pre-installed with plan9!!!

[Iruatã Souza]

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:26 AM,   wrote:
> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 03:31:14PM +0200, cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote:
>>
>> 9load has to die.
>
> Ideally, yes. I worked, a long time ago, with GRUB and finally realized
> that adding feature after feature we were just building another
> kernel...

In practice too. In fact, 9front has removed 9load since forever, and
we are much better this way.

Re: [9fans] IL depreciated

[Iruatã Souza]

http://code.google.com/p/plan9front/source/detail?r=f31b07b59320acda22829bb12bac497cb5a29a69

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Connor Lane Smith  wrote:
> Hey,
>
> The explanation for IL's deprecation is originally from the Plan 9
> fourth release notes [1]:
>
>> We are phasing out the IL protocol since it doesn’t handle long-distance
>> connections well (and long-distance networks don’t handle it well, either).
>
> Does anyone know what it is about IL's design that means it doesn't
> handle long-distance connections well?
>
> [1]: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/release4.html
>
> Thanks,
> cls
>

Re: [9fans] build iso's plan9 for amd64, atom, arm, powerpc

[Iruatã Souza]

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Matthew Veety  wrote:
> Here's how to make a 9front iso. I would guess
> that building a bell labs dist is similar.
>
> http://code.google.com/p/plan9front/wiki/build
>
> --
> Veety

Not that similar.
http://maht0x0r.blogspot.com.br/2007/11/roll-your-own-plan9-iso.html
used to work for the labs version.

Re: [9fans] a disk filesystem for both Plan 9 and Linux?

[Iruatã Souza]

If you ever mount an extN partition with ext2fs, always remember to
unmount it before reboot/shutdown. I remember having trouble with
that.

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 4:58 PM, John Floren  wrote:
> I'd like to be able to use a disk in both Plan 9 and Linux. FAT seems
> to have some issues with sufficiently large partitions, so that's out.
> Plan9Port doesn't have fossil in the repo, although I've found
> patches. ext2srv may be an option, but I have no idea how reliable it
> would actually be.
>
> Am I missing any options for filesystems that are supported by both
> Linux and Plan 9? Can anyone comment on the reliability/usefulness of
> ext2srv?
>
>
> john
>

Re: [9fans] What are you using Plan 9 for?

[Iruatã Souza]

On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 12:02 PM, Mark van Atten  wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Mart Zirnask  wrote:
>
>> I'm a part-time writer and radio producer with no CS background, so I
>> even use this machine for producing 1-hour radio shows for Estonian
>> Public Broadcasting. (Thank you, Non Daw!: http://non.tuxfamily.org).
>>
>> I just love the "zen" of sam (and, occasionally, Acme) as a writing
>> tool. Also, the idea of "everything is a file" kind of grows on you,
>> intellectually.
>
> I'm a philosopher and use sam and acme every day to write papers
> in LaTeX.
>
> With his KerTeX project, Thierry Laronde has done, and is doing, great
> work for TeX on Plan 9.
> It would be great to have LuaTeX as well.
>

Did you (or Thierry) tried running LuaTeX? I have "ported" lua ages
ago to Plan 9 and it was pretty easy, but I know nothing about LuaTex
internals or the relation between both.

Re: [9fans] What are you using Plan 9 for?

[Iruatã Souza]

On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 10:39 PM, Kurt H Maier  wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 10:35:42PM +0100, Ethan A. Gardener wrote:
>>
>> a sort of operating system where the primary interface to all tasks is
>> a Forth interpreter.
>
> I think we've talked about this in another venue some years back, but I
> often thing of the OpenFirmware implementation used by the OLPC XO-1
> laptop.  Instead of a BIOS or UEFI or linux trash in their stead, the
> system was managed by an OpenFirmware installation, much of which was
> written in Forth, and whose primary interface was a Forth shell.  This
> environment had complete access to the hardware of the system, which
> was used by the project to create really comprehensive hardware
> diagnostics tools.
>

Kurt and Ethan,

I am sure you know that, but Forth has basically started as an
language + operating system and stayed there for quite some time.
Forth hosted on other operating systems is the (not so) new thing.

For a "recent" instance of Forth language+os for the pc, check Andy
Valencia's ForthOS.

Re: [9fans] Is Plan 9 C "Less Dangerous?"

[Iruatã Souza]

On 09/02/2018 09:31 AM, Chris McGee wrote:
> I'm curious what
> tools are available to help discover bugs.
> 

Does simplicity and clarity count?

Re: [9fans] Is Plan 9 C "Less Dangerous?"

[Iruatã Souza]

On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 4:45 AM Chris McGee  wrote:
>
>
>> Wasn't that the whole point of RISC?
>
>
> It could be, but after having looked briefly at the size of the design for 
> RISC-V Rocket and especially BOOM I wonder if it's all overly complicated. 
> They even built their own high level hardware language (Chisel) that 
> generates Verilog using Scala. Yuck.
>
> Also, there's appears to be quite alot of compiler optimizations in gcc for 
> RISC-based chips.
>
> Could you get away with a much simpler, smaller hardware design and still run 
> Plan 9 in a reasonable way? Maybe one side of the software/hardware divide 
> has to take on more complexity to help simplify the other side?

Take a look at greenarraychips.com and how Chuck Moore tries to
simplify the whole instead of software or hardware.

Re: [9fans] plan9port : complete system : kernel : freebsd || linux ?

[Iruatã Souza]

On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 8:57 AM Roderick  wrote:
>
>
> I think it is uninteresting: one can always install plan9port in a
> meager installation of openbsd, freebsd or linux.
>
> More interesting is to have the original plan9 and perhaps a virtual
> machine on it to run one of the above OS and their software.
>

9front can run virtualized linux and openbsd.

> Unfortunately I am having problems installing plan9. It seems to be
> very selective on the hardware.
>
> Rodrigo
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018, Mayuresh Kathe wrote:
>
> > i had been trying to work with a collaborator to develop a complete,
> > installable system for plan9port.
> >
> > while initially being quite gung-ho about linux, an accidental discovery
> > and ensuing experiements show the freebsd environment to be a lot more
> > performant and responsive, almost as much as netbsd for something like a
> > plan9port system.
> >
> > wish to ask the community that if such a system were to be successfully
> > developed and distributed with source and free of cost, would it be
> > welcomed or most would not even bother to look at?
> >
> > also, if there's enough interest, would there be someone out here
> > capable enough to support netbsd-amd64?
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > ~mayuresh
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [9fans] plan9port : complete system : kernel : freebsd || linux ?

[Iruatã Souza]

On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 10:15 PM Mayuresh Kathe  wrote:
>
> On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 11:49:19PM -0400, s...@9front.org wrote:
> > what is the point of this exercise?
>
> to provide an easy to install plan9port based system.
>
>

I suggest you check this list's archives first.

Re: [9fans] plan9port : complete system : kernel : freebsd || linux ?

[Iruatã Souza]

On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 3:35 AM Rui Carmo  wrote:
>
> I’ll bite, partially because I’m used to finding resistance to exploratory 
> ideas and learning paths, but mostly because I find this kind of passionate, 
> biased argument fascinating in tech contexts...
>
> > On 4 Oct 2018, at 09:50, Kurt H Maier  wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 08:50:35AM +0100, Rui Carmo wrote:
> >> I wouldn’t allow the passive-aggressive mood that surfaces here from
> >> time to time to turn me off the project.
> >
> > How about regular aggressive?
>
> Regular aggressive is taking things outside the realm of civilised discourse, 
> which is easy to do behind a keyboard, since being irate at abstract things 
> seems to be a slippery slope when removed from regular human contact.
>
> However, it is not really acceptable, even with an attempt at (biased) logic 
> behind it.
>
> > Starting with "what project?"  We're gonna slap down an alpine rootfs
> > and throw plan9port in /bin? Every single person on this list has heard
> > this exact "idea" with this exact lack of coherent expression at least
> > twelve times before, probably from me.
>
> And the problem with doing that as a learning experience or for the purpose 
> of having better tooling is exactly… what?
>
> > The problem here is, in a record few number of posts, this person has
> > demonstrated a desire to mix two operationg systems while demonstrating
> > fundamental misunderstandings of both of them -- then in some kind of
> > incompetence coup de gras,
>
> You meant “grace” (pronounced “grasse”), not “greasy”, as in “foie de gras”. 
> I can understand that mastery of foreign languages might slip away under the 
> kind of blood pressure involved in your original reply.
>
> > managed to display an utter ignorance of
> > software development en route.  A fine display of efficiency! most
> > Kickstarter projects, for instance, take years to demonstrate this
> > degree of overconfident ineptitude!
>
> Ignorance takes many forms, such as lack of empathy (which can translate in 
> some contexts to “emotional ignorance”). The attempt at drawing parallels 
> with Kickstarter (and the implicit bias against experimentation and focusing 
> only on failures) is amusing, but telling.
>
> > This sort of garbage post results in flames because it's
> > attention-seeking nonsense of the kind that generates many upvotes on
> > web forums, but no actual goddamn software.
>
> This isn’t a web forum. It is a mailing-list, and as such (as I would like to 
> think) one of the last bastions of measured, rational discourse on today’s 
> Internet (ok, there was ample precedent for flame wars in FidoNet, and we can 
> gloss over the Usenet massacres, but I think my point has a chance of getting 
> across). You are not helping to set a positive tone.
>
> >> That said, I’m fascinated by how often (and how quickly) some threads
> >> devolve into “there is no point in doing that” or “we don’t need
> >> those modern contraptions” arguments - reminds me a lot of some of
> >> the hard boiled academia types I used to work with back when VMS
> >> started losing ground.
> >
> > You're not fascinated by shit; that's a medium- to low-quality
> > rhetorical dodge to throw mud at straw men.  Stand by your opinions,
> > soldier -- you don't get bonus points for fake rumination.  For the
> > record, I think it's a fine idea, but this guy isn't the one who's
> > gonna cross that finish line.  Not this decade, at least, and I'd
> > lay good money that it's not next decade, either.
>
> And yet, if no-one tries, nobody will ever deliver on it.
>

Except that many people have tried. And failed. Experimentation is
wonderful, but one should always understand the previous efforts.

> > If nothing else, by the time you get a decent clip down this road, you
> > come to understand why the locals were laughing as you passed them.
>
> History is filled with people who were laughed at and changed (even if in 
> small ways) the world we live in. Being able to remember that is what 
> separates civilised cultures from biased, negative cultures that prey on (and 
> anticipate) failure for the sake of entertainment. Ancient Rome comes to mind 
> here.
>
> >> As much as some folk here are not exactly fond of various nuances of
> >> modern tech (from Linux to X to git, etc.),  I don’t think there’s
> >> any need for dissing personal efforts to use or improve various
> >> aspects of Plan9 (including, horror of horrors, making the user land
> >> a bit more modern and usable, or at least more accessible to
> >> mainstream users).
> >
> > Efforts?  More hypothesizing? or is there some effort happening
> > somewhere here?  Anyway, needlessly or not, I'm not dissing any effort.
> > I'm dissing a person; 100% USDA Prime Ad Hominem, just ask Irving Copi
> > if it ain't.
>
> I parsed that as the Dept. of Agriculture until I realised there were no 
> animal husbandry puns to fit this situation. Regardless, I fully expected a 
> red “let’s

Re: [9fans] I went down a Forth rabbit hole and found Glenda

[Iruatã Souza]

Hi Skip,

Glad you found 9p4! Please let me know if you need any help with it.
It is not complete and surely lacks documentation, but testclient.f
can help you get started. It currently implements the minimum required
to walk and do file i/o.

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 6:46 PM Skip Tavakkolian
 wrote:
>
> So...
>
> I have had a couple of STM32F103C8T6 "bluepill" boards laying around for a 
> few years and decided to do something with them.
>
> After some uninteresting attempts with Arduino, I found Mecrisp-Stellaris 
> Forth (http://mecrisp.sourceforge.net/) which works great.
>
> This lead me to wonder if there are any 9P implementations in Forth (surely 
> not?)
> Yes! there is one by iru (https://github.com/iru-/9p4).
>
> Then I thought about the impossible: a 9p file server in mecrisp forth. I 
> discovered someone had already done exactly that: 
> https://hub.darcs.net/pointfree/ForthFS
>
> -Skip
>

Re: [9fans] Request for (constructive?) comments: Plan 9 : 2020

[Iruatã Souza]

I suggest we do it somewhere in Europe. I have the impression most
active users are here.

On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 8:58 AM Steve Simon  wrote:
>
> hi,
>
> i love the idea, what concerns me is the cost of a flight from the UK to 
> Michigan.
>
> we shall see what tickets i can find.
>
> -Steve
>
>
> > On 23 Oct 2019, at 6:49 am, o...@eigenstate.org wrote:
> >
> > 
> >>
> >> Jeff (jas) and I have been chatting about organizing a "Plan 9 : 2020"
> >> workshop.  We're trying to gauge everyone's interest, and to solicit agenda
> >> items, venue suggestions, and hopefully volunteers to help organize it.
> >
> > I'd be interested in attending, and I don't mind taking some time to
> > help organize.
> >
> >> If you have a different suggestion, or are willing to offer a venue, please
> >> comment.
> >
> > Some of us have also been talking about planning an OpenBSD-style
> > hackathon.  (OpenBSD hackathons: Get developers in a room, and write
> > code for a week, exchanging ideas, trying to get commits into base and
> > ports.  Beer is usually involved.)
> >
> > We'd discussed putting together something like that for Plan 9 in the
> > first half of 2020. Anyone hacking on Plan 9 related code would be
> > welcome.
> >
> > I don't know if this is a different suggestion so much as a different
> > event.  Experience implies that merging the two together may be a bit
> > too much in one shot.
> >
> > Expect a post about that when we start sorting out the details.
> >

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Re: [9fans] Request for (constructive?) comments: Plan 9 : 2020

[Iruatã Souza]

If we want to see what people have been doing with Plan 9, isn't it better
to facilitate for the people that want to expose their work?

Le jeu. 31 oct. 2019 à 19:58, Lyndon Nerenberg  a écrit :

> For BSDCan I say "unofficial" specifically because an "official"
> BOF as part of BSDCan would require conference registration.  An
> "unofficial" BOF would be off-site (we can just meet at the usual
> pub) the day after the conference ends.

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Re: [9fans] Plan9 complete source for raspberry pi

[Iruatã Souza]

Hi,

You can clone http://code.9front.org/hg/plan9front/ for 9front.
For the rpi code in the kernel, check sys/src/9/bcm64 (pi3 and pi4),
and sys/src/9/bcm (pi and pi2).


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:15 PM  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> How do i clone the complete source of plan9 port for raspberry pi? Is there 
> any repository  url?
>
>
> Thanks
> Prakash
> 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink

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[9fans] Plan 9 in Brazil

[Iruatã Souza]

Hi,

For the Plan 9 historians/archaeologists, yesterday I found this
https://archive.org/details/Geek008.

Geek was a very popular monthly magazine distributed with a CD packed
with software.
This was 2002 and dial-up internet was still the norm in Brazil. As
far as I know, this is how Plan 9 was first presented to us
Brazilians. For sure, it was the first time I got my hands on it.

iru

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 earlier versions

[Iruatã Souza]

Earlier than what exactly? Pre 4th edition?

Le lun. 10 août 2020 à 20:28, Leonardo  a écrit :

> Hi!
>
> Can I find Plan 9 earlier versions? Where?
>
> Sorry for my english,
>
> Leonardo
> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
>  + participants
>  + delivery options
>  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 in Brazil

[Iruatã Souza]

Le sam. 29 août 2020 à 19:26, Leonardo  a écrit :

> Cool!
>
> I want to make a Plan 9 distro aimed at brazilians: I'm at the beginning
> of this journey. My plan is to translate all the documentation (articles
> and man pages), try to make the system more user friendly (not for hackers
> but for common people) and also work in ordinary software like a modern
> browser, a word processor, spreadsheet software, a kind of powerpoint etc.
>
>
As another historical note, for a number of years (2006 to 2009 iirc) Plan
9 reached the peak of 3 regular users in Brazil. Others came and went, but
those 3 are responsible for at least abaco, the initial python port, and
the initial work into what is now the 9front bootloader.

So, Leonardo, welcome aboard :)

Besides translation, what are the Brazilian-specific needs you are trying
to address?
I highly recommend you search the list for other projects similar to yours.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in the journey!

iru


> I am studying Plan 9 and I am totally in love with it: read files, write
> to files and again: read files, write to files. And what else do you need
> to do? Little or nothing: things are really simple. The NSA invented
> SELinux (mandatory access control) because it saw that, from a security
> point of view, the idea of discretionary access control did not provide
> much. Okay, it's an idea and it works. But Plan 9, before, had introduced
> the idea of namespace which is, by the way, a much simpler and smarter
> idea: each process can have its own restricted view of the universe of
> files. I really don't understand why Plan 9 has not been adopted. Legacy
> base?
> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
>  + participants
>  + delivery options
>  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 in Brazil

[Iruatã Souza]

Le sam. 29 août 2020 à 23:21, Lucas Francesco 
a écrit :

> >As another historical note, for a number of years (2006 to 2009 iirc)
> Plan 9 reached the peak of 3 regular users in Brazil. Others came and went,
> but those 3 are responsible for at least abaco, the initial python port,
> and the initial work into what is now the 9front bootloader.
>
> Also another note: from what I know fgb ( as you mention Abaco and he
> is the creator) Is argentinian, and Argentina isn't Brazillian
> territory, yet. I know "responsible" can have a different
> connotation/implication than creator, so i'd love to hear some
> clarification if there's a backstory though.
>

Fgb is indeed Argentinian, but speaks perfect Portuguese and lived for a
number of years in Brazil. Also, at least for a part of the timespan I
mentioned he lived in Brazil (we even lived in the same street for a
month!) That's why I considered him as one of the regular users in Brazil.

I have no idea about the current 9front bootloader, and would love to
> hear notes about who did it, thanks to bringing it to light.
>

I am the one who did the early work on it. The ideas have been presented in
http://4e.iwp9.org/papers/9null.pdf.


Lucas
>
> Em sáb., 29 de ago. de 2020 às 16:55, Iruatã Souza
>  escreveu:
> >
> > Le sam. 29 août 2020 à 19:26, Leonardo  a
> écrit :
> >>
> >> Cool!
> >>
> >> I want to make a Plan 9 distro aimed at brazilians: I'm at the
> beginning of this journey. My plan is to translate all the documentation
> (articles and man pages), try to make the system more user friendly (not
> for hackers but for common people) and also work in ordinary software like
> a modern browser, a word processor, spreadsheet software, a kind of
> powerpoint etc.
> >
> > As another historical note, for a number of years (2006 to 2009 iirc)
> Plan 9 reached the peak of 3 regular users in Brazil. Others came and went,
> but those 3 are responsible for at least abaco, the initial python port,
> and the initial work into what is now the 9front bootloader.
> >
> > So, Leonardo, welcome aboard :)
> >
> > Besides translation, what are the Brazilian-specific needs you are
> trying to address?
> > I highly recommend you search the list for other projects similar to
> yours.
> >
> > Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in the journey!
> >
> > iru
> >
> >>
> >> I am studying Plan 9 and I am totally in love with it: read files,
> write to files and again: read files, write to files. And what else do you
> need to do? Little or nothing: things are really simple. The NSA invented
> SELinux (mandatory access control) because it saw that, from a security
> point of view, the idea of discretionary access control did not provide
> much. Okay, it's an idea and it works. But Plan 9, before, had introduced
> the idea of namespace which is, by the way, a much simpler and smarter
> idea: each process can have its own restricted view of the universe of
> files. I really don't understand why Plan 9 has not been adopted. Legacy
> base?
> >
> > 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options
> Permalink

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 in Brazil

[Iruatã Souza]

Le sam. 29 août 2020 à 23:02, Lucas Francesco 
a écrit :

> I think we're way beyond the peak of 3 if consider non 9labs, as I'm a
> brazillian myself and have been using 9front for almost 2y, and have been
> slowly introducing my brother and my current mate to it.
>

I'm glad to hear that! The 3 persons back then were Federico Benavento
(fgb), Felipe Bichued and I.


> Leo, best of luck on the distro though, I'd really like 9 to be
> niche-popular but I don't think translating stuff is the way to go, if it
> wasn't for covid I was going to start  lecturing about it at the uni I'm in
> but with prior warnings that all the content is in English.
>
> Lucas
>
> Em sáb, 29 de ago de 2020 16:55, Iruatã Souza 
> escreveu:
>
>> Le sam. 29 août 2020 à 19:26, Leonardo  a
>> écrit :
>>
>>> Cool!
>>>
>>> I want to make a Plan 9 distro aimed at brazilians: I'm at the beginning
>>> of this journey. My plan is to translate all the documentation (articles
>>> and man pages), try to make the system more user friendly (not for hackers
>>> but for common people) and also work in ordinary software like a modern
>>> browser, a word processor, spreadsheet software, a kind of powerpoint etc.
>>>
>>>
>> As another historical note, for a number of years (2006 to 2009 iirc)
>> Plan 9 reached the peak of 3 regular users in Brazil. Others came and went,
>> but those 3 are responsible for at least abaco, the initial python port,
>> and the initial work into what is now the 9front bootloader.
>>
>> So, Leonardo, welcome aboard :)
>>
>> Besides translation, what are the Brazilian-specific needs you are trying
>> to address?
>> I highly recommend you search the list for other projects similar to
>> yours.
>>
>> Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in the journey!
>>
>> iru
>>
>>
>>> I am studying Plan 9 and I am totally in love with it: read files, write
>>> to files and again: read files, write to files. And what else do you need
>>> to do? Little or nothing: things are really simple. The NSA invented
>>> SELinux (mandatory access control) because it saw that, from a security
>>> point of view, the idea of discretionary access control did not provide
>>> much. Okay, it's an idea and it works. But Plan 9, before, had introduced
>>> the idea of namespace which is, by the way, a much simpler and smarter
>>> idea: each process can have its own restricted view of the universe of
>>> files. I really don't understand why Plan 9 has not been adopted. Legacy
>>> base?
>>>
>> *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T46e6d1465ae13031-Mf20312e202af52b60c3f1920>
>

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 in Brazil

[Iruatã Souza]

On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 6:54 PM Leonardo  wrote:
>
> On Saturday, 29 August 2020, at 4:55 PM, Iruatã Souza wrote:
>
> As another historical note, for a number of years (2006 to 2009 iirc) Plan 9 
> reached the peak of 3 regular users in Brazil. Others came and went, but 
> those 3 are responsible for at least abaco, the initial python port, and the 
> initial work into what is now the 9front bootloader.
>
> So, Leonardo, welcome aboard :)
>
> Besides translation, what are the Brazilian-specific needs you are trying to 
> address?
> I highly recommend you search the list for other projects similar to yours.
>
> Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in the journey!
>
>
> Hi, Iru. Thank you for welcome and congragulations on your work.
>
> Regarding the few regular users, I think this is not only because Plan 9 is 
> considered a research system but also because it looks like a system for fans 
> or enthusiast or even experts (although it's a system where the simplicity of 
> conceptions is the essence).
>

Wouldn't that be true for any software that somehow diverges from the
conventional/mainstream practices?

>
> The guys (and girls!) at 9front do an admirable job of fixing bugs in the 
> kernel, compilers and key libraries and that's priceless: it's a very 
> technical and time-consuming job. We should be grateful for the work they do. 
> And it helps a lot: they do a job that nobody usually wants to do. So, with 
> this support that they give to the community, it is possible to think about 
> developing other things. You're a contributor, I saw your name there. Thank 
> you!
>
> Beside translation I'd like to make the system more user friendly (again: for 
> common people not for experts): and this is the most important thing. In 
> fact, I'd like to make Plan 9 a usable system for personal purposes, so that 
> I can use it and, of course, share what I can do.
>

User-friendliness is difficult to establish precisely. On the other
hand, personal needs don't require any precise definition. In fact, as
far as I understand, most of the 9front contributions address direct
and concrete needs, usually related to the person writing the code.

If I may offer advice, assuming you won't be receiving any external
incentive (e.g. money) to conduct your project, writing
software/documentation to meet your own needs seems a more productive
start. Then, in doing that, you'll probably stumble upon more general
problems the solutions of which may eventually help others.

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Re: [9fans] full fossil follies

[Iruatã Souza]

Le ven. 25 juin 2021 à 17:19,  a écrit :

> On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 02:12:07PM +, adr via 9fans wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 01:41:30PM +0100, Richard Miller wrote:
> > > > it just becomes difficult
> > > > to do anything when no fossil blocks can be allocated
> > >
> > > Thinking a bit further about this: intuitively one might expect to be
> > > able to reboot using a local file system which is completely full, and
> > > use du and ls to find big files and rm to delete them, without the need
> > > to allocate new blocks. Something in the way fossil works, makes this
> > > impossible at present. I wonder how much work it would be to
> investigate
> > > and fix?
> >
> > I haven't studied how fossil works, so excuse this light chat.
> > Couldn't fossil have reserved blocks so when it starts and it's
> > full it can add those block and present the user to a recovery
> > session? Just a console session printing the last file modified?
>
> I don't think I will tell anybody a scoop, but it is what is present in
> traditional Unix filesystems where there is a percent of the storage
> preserved... but for root, user under which you are not supposed to
> log to the system in normal operation. This is probably the problem:
> since there is no privileged user, for "whom" to preserve/reserve these
> blocks?
>
> I imagine the alternative would be, if fossil reports full, that memory
> filesystems should be mounted on top of the system mandatory writable
> dirs so that the system will not block but normal booting will not
> be done but the program launched will be one requiring user to make
> room, crucial infos written in memory filesystems being copied back
> to fossil when done. But it is easier to implement when booting/rebooting,
> but more problematic if the system is running. Except perhaps that
> there will always be a memory filesystem mounted with rescue
> programs/scripts that the user can precisely use when the system
> is out of disk space, utilities that write nothing to disk (but just in
> their memory realm), in order to not paint oneself in a corner.
>

FWIW in 9front you can jump into rc while booting and fix this sort of
issue.


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Re: [9fans] Help with a sam cleanup script

[Iruatã Souza]

On 7/27/21 5:07 AM, Mark van Atten wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 at 23:08,  wrote:
>>
>> Quoth revcomni...@gmail.com:
>>> I do have 9front's sam installed
>>> I am running sam as a standalone on Debian Linux
>>
>> 9front's sam does not run on Debian linux.
> 
> There is a port, now no longer active:
> https://bitbucket-archive.softwareheritage.org/projects/ir/iru/sam9f-unix.html
> 

Just pushed it to https://github.com/iru-/sam9f-unix. It might be
outdated, but I still use it daily.

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Re: [9fans] Help with a sam cleanup script

[Iruatã Souza]

On 7/27/21 3:39 PM, k...@a-b.xyz wrote:
>> Just pushed it to https://github.com/iru-/sam9f-unix. It might be
>> outdated, but I still use it daily.
> 
> It seems that you imported two months before '^' and '_' got added
> (in 758496ecaa42b5f6c17c0bd1e0f43189e50e0745).
> 
> There have been a few other changes very useful for scripting, like
> the $% and $%dot variables exported to forked procs giving a current
> file name and selection.
> 

Thanks, updated to 9front commit 70d173bfa.

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Re: [9fans] Problems installing 9legacy on bare metal (Thinkpad X60)

[Iruatã Souza]

> On 22 Jan 2022, at 17:08, Thaddeus Woskowiak  wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 10:32 AM yakkuliste via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> 
> wrote:
>> 
>> On Friday, 21 January 2022, at 2:02 PM, Thaddeus Woskowiak wrote:
>> 
>> Escape to an rc shell by typing !rc at the boot prompt.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks for the pointer Thaddeus. I've tried, but it doesn't work at boot 
>> prompt in 9legacy. It only works in parts of the install script.
> 
> H. That is disappointing. I don't have a 9legacy install at the
> moment, but can someone confirm if !rc was inherited from plan 9 or
> unique to 9front?

!rc (and the rest of the boot) is one of the first things implemented uniquely 
by 9front.
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Re: [9fans] 9P in Forth

[Iruatã Souza]

> On 15 Feb 2022, at 04:19, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) 
>  wrote:
> 
> Alex Musolino writes:
> 
>> Seems so: https://github.com/iru-/9p4
> 
> Oh now that's slick! < 200 lines of code.
> 

I’m the author. If you can, please let me know how it goes if you decide to try 
it on AVR. 
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Re: [9fans] [GSoC] sorry for the last email

[Iruatã Souza]

how naive.

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Calvin Morrison  wrote:
> Politics... no.
>
> It is most likely to do with taxes and other paperwork. it would be a
> huge hassle for Google to employ students all over the world, more
> hassle than it is worth apparently.
>
>
> On 23 April 2013 03:02, steve  wrote:
>> thats a real shame.
>>
>> its a pity when politics gets in the way of education - I assume this
>> is the problem, i apologise if not.
>>
>> -Steve
>>
>> On 22 Apr 2013, at 21:37, lamg  wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry guys, I didn´t know that students in Cuba cannot participate,
>>> anyway I will upload the markdown engine when completed to github.com
>>>lamg
>>
>

[9fans] p9p win(1) body file

[Iruatã Souza]

Hello,

Suppose $winid is the id of an acme window running win(1). An echo ls
> /mnt/acme/$winid/body will execute ls, i.e. the input to body will
be treated as if we had just typed ls in $winid.

P9p on the other hand, will show ls in $winid but not execute it. Code reads:

win.c:372: case 'E':/* write to body or tag; can't affect us */

Is there a reason for the p9p behavior?

iru

Re: [9fans] NDB Error

[Iruatã Souza]

to avoid confusion: it is a 9front install

On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Shane Morris  wrote:
> Hello 9fans,
>
> I get the error as seen in the screenshot - I highly suspect this is because
> the internet connection I'm using at present is pretty dodgy, but I stand to
> be corrected if I'm wrong about this. I am using DCHP for the bridging on my
> Mac. I will try to reinstall when I'm at uni later today.
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Shane.

Re: [9fans] DNS/DHCP/AUTH with Raspberry Pi?

[Iruatã Souza]

The 9P implementation is based on puffs. Its docs/code may be of help.

On Tuesday, October 14, 2014,  wrote:

> > i use a socks and http proxies running on the plan9 gateway machine
> > to get windows internet connectivity. the plan9 machines just
> > import the /net.alt ipstack from it.
>
> I'm not aware that such tools are in the standard distribution (I have
> plans to install both 9atom and 9front, but not immediately), could
> you give us a pointer or two here?
>
> Also, slightly off topic, I have discovered that NetBSD has a
> "mount_9p", but it is not obvious how it is meant to be used (I get a
> "Rattach not received, got 107) response, but the documentation is
> quite economical regarding authentication).  Does anyone have some
> more details on the implementation and deployment?
>
> Lucio.
>
>
>
> -
> This email has been scanned by the MxScan Email Security System.
>
> -
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Persistent font in Acme.

[Iruatã Souza]

acme is not the system.

On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Stuart Morrow  wrote:
> The way most congruent with the system might be to have $font a
> 2-variable (like prompt), to have you favourite fixed- and
> variable-width fonts both settable in the obvious place: your profile.
> Completely unrelated programs could conceivably reuse this trick.
>

Re: [9fans] Persistent font in Acme.

[Iruatã Souza]

what other program needs two fonts?

On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 11:30 AM, erik quanstrom  wrote:
> On Thu Nov  6 08:15:54 EST 2014, iru.mu...@gmail.com wrote:
>> acme is not the system.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Stuart Morrow  
>> wrote:
>> > The way most congruent with the system might be to have $font a
>> > 2-variable (like prompt), to have you favourite fixed- and
>> > variable-width fonts both settable in the obvious place: your profile.
>> > Completely unrelated programs could conceivably reuse this trick.
>
> but i do think that this solution fits the system.  this does depend on rc's
> formatting of environment variables, so it may be a portability issue with
> p9p.
>
> - erik
>

Re: [9fans] Persistent font in Acme.

[Iruatã Souza]

yes, but what about two fonts? I only remember acme.

On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Lee Fallat  wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Iruatã Souza  wrote:
>> what other program needs two fonts?
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 11:30 AM, erik quanstrom  
>> wrote:
>>> On Thu Nov  6 08:15:54 EST 2014, iru.mu...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> acme is not the system.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Stuart Morrow  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > The way most congruent with the system might be to have $font a
>>>> > 2-variable (like prompt), to have you favourite fixed- and
>>>> > variable-width fonts both settable in the obvious place: your profile.
>>>> > Completely unrelated programs could conceivably reuse this trick.
>>>
> https://code.google.com/p/plan9front/source/browse/sys/src/cmd/rio/rio.c#173
>
> rio uses what is in $font if not specified on the command-line.
>
> You can easily implement it in any gui in plan 9.
>

Re: [9fans] Porting plan9

[Iruatã Souza]

Em 02/12/2014 19:59, "Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult" <
enrico.weig...@gr13.net> escreveu:
>
> On 02.12.2014 16:21, Steven Stallion wrote:
>
> 
>
> apropos kernel/bootloader: I just recently had a look at the code
> and somewhat got the impression that 9load seems to be a specially
> tailored plan9 kernel, which then loads the real kernel.
>
> is that correct or am I mistaken here ?
>
>
> cu
> --
> Enrico Weigelt,
> metux IT consulting
> +49-151-27565287
>

Correct.

Re: [9fans] Porting plan9

[Iruatã Souza]

as far as I can remember, Plan 9 (Bell Labs) as 9load expect each other.
9front, on the other hand, got rid of 9load for its own good.

On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 8:28 PM, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
 wrote:
> On 02.12.2014 23:02, Iruatã Souza wrote:
>
>>> apropos kernel/bootloader: I just recently had a look at the code
>>> and somewhat got the impression that 9load seems to be a specially
>>> tailored plan9 kernel, which then loads the real kernel.
>>>
>>> is that correct or am I mistaken here ?
>>
>> Correct.
>
> hmm, interesting.
>
> What's the exact reason behind that ?
>
> I'm really not an expert for bootloaders, but I always got the
> impression, that bootloaders need to be extremly minimal (eg. on
> PC you'll have only about 0.5k for the first stage) and serve an
> entirely different purpose than an OS kernel.
>
> OTOH, having a complete OS/Kernel as preboot environment of course
> also has it's charm - allows easily adding lots of setup things,
> even rescue stuff, etc.
>
> Can 9front also boot other operating systems, eg. Linux ?
> Could it become a replacement for other bootloaders like grub ?
>
>
> cu
> --
> Enrico Weigelt,
> metux IT consulting
> +49-151-27565287
>

Re: [9fans] DigiLand DL701Q quad core tablet

[Iruatã Souza]

Em 19/12/2014 06:35, "Richard Miller" <9f...@hamnavoe.com> escreveu:
>
> > in reality the kernel is the same modulo some drivers and one variable
( e.g. no vga in cpu servers).
>
> It's actually quite easy to make a single binary which can be configured
> at boot time to be either cpu or terminal, depending on a plan9.ini
variable.

9front does that.

Re: [9fans] Standalone *nix port of sam

[Iruatã Souza]

On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 8:54 AM, Steve Simon  wrote:
> There4 was also a chording patch to make cut and paste work like acme, but my
> fingers have never been agile enough to do this reliably, so its of less#
> interest to me.
>

9front sam does it in case it is of interest.

Re: [9fans] kernel for sgi/indy

[Iruatã Souza]

awesome!

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 1:51 PM,   wrote:
> have 9front working on sgi/indy (150Mhz r5000) with seeq ethernet,
> newport graphics (1280x1024x32) and mouse/keyboard working so
> it can be used as a terminal.
>
> in case anyone wants to play with it:
>
> http://code.google.com/p/plan9front/source/browse/sys/src/9/sgi
>
> --
> cinap
>

Re: [9fans] on cp /fd/1 /fd/0

[Iruatã Souza]

--r d 0 glenda glenda 0 May 10 18:57 0
--rw--- d 0 glenda glenda 0 May 10 18:57 1
---w--- d 0 glenda glenda 0 May 10 18:57 2

is that what you want to know? or the reasons why the permissions are like that?

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 8:56 AM, Daniel Bastos  wrote:
> Good morning.
>
> % cp /fd/1 /fd/0
> cp: can't open /fd/1: '/fd/1' inappropriate use of fd
>
> I can't open it for reading, but I could open it for writing. Why can't I
> open it for reading?

Re: [9fans] using tls-psk cipher suits vs roll our own handshake

[Iruatã Souza]

5) seems to much effort to do right/securely, no?

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 4:45 PM,   wrote:
> plan9 currently uses the shared secret from the authentication
> process with ssl and rc4 cipher for encrypting traffic for
> exportfs and the cpu services (pushssl()). the cipher can be
> changed by the client by providing command line parameters,
> tho there is no real negotiation going on. if the server
> doesnt like the cipher from the client, the connection just
> breaks.
>
> when switching to tls, we have a few options:
>
> 1) do as we do with ssl, client sends what cipher and hash alg
> it wants as a string before calling pushtls().
>
> 2) use fixed cipher like chacha20/poly1305 aead unconditionally.
>
> 3) use fixed cipher initially, and after that, renegotiate
> cipher (devtls can change secrets and ciphers inband).
>
> 4) use standard tls handshake with PSK cipher suits.
>
> 5) make our own little cipher negotiation handshake protocol.
>
> suggestions?
>
> --
> cinap
>

Re: [9fans] Install: root file system

[Iruatã Souza]

Never tried it, but you could try installing 9front, then your
distribution of choice atop of that.

On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 8:06 AM,   wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 02, 2016 at 04:26:39PM -0800, erik quanstrom wrote:
>> i'm not sure what the root cause of your problem is,
>
> I'm now suspecting that the underlying problem is that a 9fat is a dos,
> but that is a special dos: part of a plan9 slice, so whether kfs or
> fossil supplementary partitions are expected.
>
> I have changed the MBR identifier to big FAT16 (6) and in this case
> 9load doesn't find a Plan9 slice and ask for a kernel, the
> sdE2!dos!9pcdisk.gz is OK (but it panics after since it doesn't ask for
> a plan9.ini).
>
>> due to not enough data,
>> but it does remind me of a limitation that has been bugging me.
>>
>> to boot from usb cleanly, i added a bit to the boot process that creates a 
>> loopback
>> sd device /dev/sdu0 that points to the usb disk device.  i've been booting 
>> my auth
>> server this way for some time.
>>
>
> The idea is interesting.
>
> Another idea/question appeared to me: could it be possible to add a
> device identifier # to the booting device or publish it
> in the name space under /boot?
>
> Corollary: when an embedded bzfilesystem ships with the kernel, is there
> an device identifier that allows to access it? (From a cursory look at
> the proto, it seems that the file is published under /boot, but since
> the 9pcflop has no the sdiahci drivers, I try to simply catenate the
> 9pccd---or 9pcdisk FWIW---with the root.bz2 extracted, guessing that
> this is 9load task to arrange the loading, but I didn't find a way to
> access it directly from kernel hierarchy, since it is not visible in
> namespace).
>
>> it seems to me that i really screwed this up.  what i really want is a sd 
>> device
>> that always points to the boot drive, the one bios refers to as 0x80.
>> givem this, one can then put something like "bootargs=local!#S/sdB0/fs"
>> in plan9.ini.  this will allow the 9atom usb install image to run off any 
>> bootable
>> media (for which we have drivers).
>>
>
> :-) This has always been the "pleasure" of the bootstrapping procedure
> in the PC world. If I understand correctly, it is normal on other
> architectures to pass through the bios to access some hardware. With the
> PC, there is the limitation of the interface and, essentially, the real
> mode problem.
>
> But it is indeed a bit frustating to see devices accessed at booting
> (hurrah! my hardware is recognized!) and suddenly not recognized (when
> the BIOS is not used anymore and the kernel is on is own without the
> drivers)...
>
> Related question (for whoever has an answer): unfortunately my node has
> only a PS2 combo, so that I could, theoretically, have whether a PS2
> mouse xor a PS2 keyboard. In fact, when the mouse and keyboard are both
> connected via USB, 9pcflop has no problem: I have keyboard and mouse
> (BIOS emulating PS2 interfaces). If I use 9pccd or 9pcdisk, I loose the
> keyboard (and don't have the mouse if it is connected to USB).
>
> So it seems I could have a running Plan9 (it works for mouse and
> keyboard attached via usb with 9pcflop, but 9pcflop doesn't recognize
> the SATA/AHCI disks; 9pccd or 9pcdisk recognize the sdiahci, but don't
> recognize the usb mouse and keyboard; I hope a synthesis is possible
> with the "best" of all worlds)? But what does the usb attachment work
> with 9pcflop for mouse and keyboard and doesn't work for the
> others---perhaps because 9pcflop doesn't recognize usb and hence fall
> back to a PS2 BIOS provided interface?
>
>> so, i'm preparing a patch that will present the boot device as /dev/sdB0 
>> regardless
>> of what underlying disk driver or protocol is being used.  here's the output 
>> from
>> my test machine.  it's been booted over the network, but even so bios has 
>> assigned
>> a 0x80 drive, and it's been found and configured:
>>
>> >>sdB loop #S/sdF0/data
>>   sdE ahci ahci port 0xfe00fb538000 pci 0.17.4: 64a ncq alp led clo 
>> pmb slum pslum ems apts alhd xonly smb elmt iss 3 ncs 31 np 4 ghc 8002 
>> isr 0 pi f 0-3 ver 10300
>>   sdF ahci ahci port 0xfe00fb532000 pci 0.31.2: 64a ncq alp led clo 
>> pmb slum pslum ems apts alhd xonly smb elmt iss 3 ncs 31 np 6 ghc 8002 
>> isr 0 pi 3f 0-5 ver 10300
>>   sdN nvme port 0xfe00fb41 pci 2.0.0 v1.0 rst 0 ctg 1 ams 0 
>> stride 1 to 2 fatal 0
>>   sdO nvme port 0xfe00fb30 pci 4.0.0 v1.1 rst 0 ctg 1 ams 0 
>> stride 1 to 3 fatal 0
>>
>
> That's interesting!
>
> For the mean time, I guess I will have to put an unix to serve 9P for a
> locally loaded kernel---but I will have to adapt the inst/ scripts since
> some programs are in the image embedded for the installation but are not
> present on the CDROM.
>
> And I will have to find a way to be able to use both mouse and keyboard,
> or it will be a no-go.
> --
> Thierry Laronde 
>  http://www.kergis.com/
>  

Re: [9fans] 9front sam in plan9port.

[Iruatã Souza]

This is just a port of the 9front version of sam to p9p. As you can see, it
hasn't been updated in a while. But I can do that if anybody wants it.
Em 21/05/2016 4:50 PM,  escreveu:

#define chording 0  /* code here for reference but it causes deadlocks
*/

I suppose the bug is still messing around.
I'll give it a try to the 9front version.

Thanks for the info!

Re: [9fans] libtask

[Iruatã Souza]

https://github.com/iru-/lua9p

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 3:47 PM, yy  wrote:
> On 13 October 2016 at 18:03, Steve Simon  wrote:
>> Anyone written or ported a small simple 9p library;
>
> As part of a GSoC project I wrote
> https://bitbucket.org/yiyus/devwsys-prev/src/tip/libninep/ (man pages
> can be found in the same repo). There is a ninepserver but not a
> ninepclient because the only client I wrote was to be used with p9p,
> so I was using 9pclient(3), but it should be relatively easy to write
> one if you need it.
>
>
> --
> - yiyus || JGL .
>

Re: [9fans] Partition problems

[Iruatã Souza]

9front solved that 5 years ago.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 5:20 AM,   wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 11:07:03PM +, Steve Simon wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I run a modified labs kernel with a few bits of 9atom to support my atom
>> Motherboard.
>>
>> I have added an ssd to the mirrored disks in my plan9 server.
>> The initialisation of devfs fails without a helpful error message (something 
>> I will sort out)
>>
>> However the source of the problem seems to be boot/parts.c which fails to 
>> instantiate the last partition on my disks. This causes devfs to give up 
>> rather than continuing to retry other partitions. My kernel then cannot find 
>> its venti partition and dies with a panic.
>>
>> If I boot using a different partition structure I can bring up the machine, 
>> and see that this one partition is indeed missing.
>>
>> If I run disk/prep on the disk and rewrite the partition table unchanged, 
>> the missing partition appears.
>>
>> Anyone seen problems with the partition table generation code in boot/part.c?
>> If not I will keep digging but I thought it was worth asking.
>
> I had a problem (and still have) with the plan9 program because the code
> rewrites the whole partition entry, recomputing the values of the start
> and so on even with partitions "untouched" rendering the machine
> unbootable because the starting block was not the correct one.
>
> I have never found neither the time nor the incentive to correct this
> part.
>
> I don't know if this has anything to do with your problem at hand.
>
> Best,
> --
> Thierry Laronde 
>  http://www.kergis.com/
> Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C
>

Re: [9fans] Partition problems

[Iruatã Souza]

I forgot only mac os should be mentioned, sorry.

Em 23/11/2016 4:00 PM, "Sigrid Haflinadóttir" <
sigrid.haflinadot...@gmail.com> escreveu:

> He didn't ask about 9front.
>
> On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 4:13 PM, Iruatã Souza  wrote:
>
>> 9front solved that 5 years ago.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 5:20 AM,   wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > On Sun, Nov 20, 2016 at 11:07:03PM +, Steve Simon wrote:
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> I run a modified labs kernel with a few bits of 9atom to support my
>> atom
>> >> Motherboard.
>> >>
>> >> I have added an ssd to the mirrored disks in my plan9 server.
>> >> The initialisation of devfs fails without a helpful error message
>> (something I will sort out)
>> >>
>> >> However the source of the problem seems to be boot/parts.c which fails
>> to instantiate the last partition on my disks. This causes devfs to give up
>> rather than continuing to retry other partitions. My kernel then cannot
>> find its venti partition and dies with a panic.
>> >>
>> >> If I boot using a different partition structure I can bring up the
>> machine, and see that this one partition is indeed missing.
>> >>
>> >> If I run disk/prep on the disk and rewrite the partition table
>> unchanged, the missing partition appears.
>> >>
>> >> Anyone seen problems with the partition table generation code in
>> boot/part.c?
>> >> If not I will keep digging but I thought it was worth asking.
>> >
>> > I had a problem (and still have) with the plan9 program because the code
>> > rewrites the whole partition entry, recomputing the values of the start
>> > and so on even with partitions "untouched" rendering the machine
>> > unbootable because the starting block was not the correct one.
>> >
>> > I have never found neither the time nor the incentive to correct this
>> > part.
>> >
>> > I don't know if this has anything to do with your problem at hand.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > --
>> > Thierry Laronde 
>> >  http://www.kergis.com/
>> > Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C
>> >
>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] kerTeX update: m3D for 3D images with MetaPost

[Iruatã Souza]

On 08/17/2017 06:47 AM, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have updated kerTeX. The most visible change for user is the
> possibility to use Anthony Phan's m3D macros for MetaPost allowing
> 3D figures (this is a package, so it is m...@mp.sh package and not
> included in the core distribution).
> 
> I have tested (and corrected) compilation, installation and creation
> of the examples figures on my (poor) Plan9 installation but it is
> so faulty that I never managed to view the result by page'ing the
> ps (gs takes ages).
> 
> If someone has, at any time, the possibility to test on a correct Plan9
> installation, I will be happy to have feedback (success or failure).
> 
> Cheers,
> 

I can help testing if you can tell me what to do.