Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Let me try to clarify this: Definitions: Discounted ticket: This is a ticket offered by the airlines to any individual irrespective of their disability or any other condition to attract more passengers to their airline. Discounted tickets may be of various types and classes. The amount of discount available may depend on the date of booking and the passenger load. Full fair: This is the full price that exists between a source and a destination. Concessional fair: This fair is offered to persons with disabilities or other catagories on the full fair and not on discounted fair. Having cleared up the terminology. Let me try to explain the current situation. 1. Before the airlines introduced discounted fairs, there were only the full fair which was paid by most passengers and the concessional fair which is paid by disabled passenger. 2. Some airlines like Jet Airways had a restriction on the number of concessional tickets they were willing to offer on their flights. So, if the flight is almost booked, the passengers who were requesting concessional tickets were put on waitlist status. This never happened to me but I have seen it happen to others. Indian Airlines did not have any such restriction on their flights as far as I know. Even in case of Jet Airways, the fact cannot be proved because unlike with Indian Airlines, Jet Airways does not give you a waitlist number and the booking status of a flight is not public. 3. The number of discounted fair tickets is determined by the airlines based on a number of factors including, passenger load on that day, competition in the sector and other factors. These fairs may change dynamically as airlines try to maximise their returns. In the category of discounted fairs, there is no question of concessional fair and as a result there will be no restriction on the number of tickets that blind persons can book on these discounted tickets. 4. If there are 25 disabled persons travelling on a flight and only 20 discounted tickets are available, the remaining 5 passengers can definitely book concessional fair tickets. There is no restriction as such except as mentioned in point number 2 above. These days, more often than not, the discounted fair is less than the concessional fair. As a result, I don't see any point in asking airlines to lift the restriction on the fixed number of concessional tickets. There is no doubt that the concession for an escort will be grosely misused. If I am travelling with my wife (just for example, I am still single), and there is 50% concession for a blind passenger and an escort, I would definitely use the provision inspite of the fact that 1, I can very well travel alone or both of us could travel by train and 2, I have the financial means to pay for a full fair or discounted fair for my wife. Again, with the discounted fair policy, the concessional fair ticket even for an escort may prove a provision not used much. One more point I would like to add is the fact that the services provided to persons with disabilities by low cost airlines is almost non existent in some airports. It should be made mandatory for airlines to have staff to assist blind persons in boarding the aircraft and so on. This is more so in sectors where only low cost airlines operate. Alternatively, these services can be taken up by the airport authorities because 1, they will have enough staff and 2, we as passengers also pay airport taxes and so the airports do earn some revenue. This happens in Dubai where the airport itself is responsible for the services offered to disabled passengers. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of disability rights initiative Sent: Wednesday, 09 August 2006 11:10 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air dear rakesh, harish, kiran, manish, rajesh and subramani, i am taking the liberty to write to all of you and others on the matter of concessional/ discounted tickets to seek some clarifications. to my knowledge, during the times of normal fares, concessional tickets were offered to pwds irrespective of the fact of how many pwds travelled on the flight and was given purely on the grounds of disability. check me if i am wrong. in recent times discounted tickets are offered to persons other than pwds on a certain number of seats per flight. this is a business practise to get as many persons to use the particular airline and has nothing to do with disability. so i assume if there are 20 discounted tickets available on a particular flight and 25 pwds travelling, only 20 might get discounted tickets and the other 5 will have to travel on normal fares , or would these five then be entitled to concessional tickets? if the former is correct then this logic and practise is discriminatory and needs to be addressed. in which case what we need to counter is that irrespective of number of discounted seats
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
dear kiran, thankyou for the clarifications. as i see it the focus should be on facilities whether it is provided by iaai or by the airlines themselves. also it is clear that if the discounted tickets are sold out then one can avail the concessional tickets. but can we still ask for any disabled person to be provided a discounted ticket at all times (as discounted tickets are lesser than concessional tickets)even if the discounted tickets are sold out? the airlines need not break any rules to accomodate the disabled person for the discounted ticket and probably they only need to modify their policy and maybe confirm some discounted tickets only at the last moment so as to accomodate a disabled person. or would this not be possible as these tickets are an incentive to the early booker? can you clarify this as well please. many thanks rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Let me try to clarify this: Definitions: Discounted ticket: This is a ticket offered by the airlines to any individual irrespective of their disability or any other condition to attract more passengers to their airline. Discounted tickets may be of various types and classes. The amount of discount available may depend on the date of booking and the passenger load. Full fair: This is the full price that exists between a source and a destination. Concessional fair: This fair is offered to persons with disabilities or other catagories on the full fair and not on discounted fair. Having cleared up the terminology. Let me try to explain the current situation. 1. Before the airlines introduced discounted fairs, there were only the full fair which was paid by most passengers and the concessional fair which is paid by disabled passenger. 2. Some airlines like Jet Airways had a restriction on the number of concessional tickets they were willing to offer on their flights. So, if the flight is almost booked, the passengers who were requesting concessional tickets were put on waitlist status. This never happened to me but I have seen it happen to others. Indian Airlines did not have any such restriction on their flights as far as I know. Even in case of Jet Airways, the fact cannot be proved because unlike with Indian Airlines, Jet Airways does not give you a waitlist number and the booking status of a flight is not public. 3. The number of discounted fair tickets is determined by the airlines based on a number of factors including, passenger load on that day, competition in the sector and other factors. These fairs may change dynamically as airlines try to maximise their returns. In the category of discounted fairs, there is no question of concessional fair and as a result there will be no restriction on the number of tickets that blind persons can book on these discounted tickets. 4. If there are 25 disabled persons travelling on a flight and only 20 discounted tickets are available, the remaining 5 passengers can definitely book concessional fair tickets. There is no restriction as such except as mentioned in point number 2 above. These days, more often than not, the discounted fair is less than the concessional fair. As a result, I don't see any point in asking airlines to lift the restriction on the fixed number of concessional tickets. There is no doubt that the concession for an escort will be grosely misused. If I am travelling with my wife (just for example, I am still single), and there is 50% concession for a blind passenger and an escort, I would definitely use the provision inspite of the fact that 1, I can very well travel alone or both of us could travel by train and 2, I have the financial means to pay for a full fair or discounted fair for my wife. Again, with the discounted fair policy, the concessional fair ticket even for an escort may prove a provision not used much. One more point I would like to add is the fact that the services provided to persons with disabilities by low cost airlines is almost non existent in some airports. It should be made mandatory for airlines to have staff to assist blind persons in boarding the aircraft and so on. This is more so in sectors where only low cost airlines operate. Alternatively, these services can be taken up by the airport authorities because 1, they will have enough staff and 2, we as passengers also pay airport taxes and so the airports do earn some revenue. This happens in Dubai where the airport itself is responsible for the services offered to disabled passengers. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of disability rights initiative Sent: Wednesday, 09 August 2006 11:10 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Hi Rajeev, As I understand it, there are various levels of discount fairs available depending on the date of booking and the passenger load. For example, Air deccan tickets for Hyderabad to Bangalore range from 500 to 3100 excluding airport taxes. 500 tickets are rarely available. On an average if you book 3 to 4 weeks in advance you will get around 1000/1200 Around 2 weeks it will be 1500 to 2000. If one is lucky enough one or two flights do not have too many bookings and even 2 or 3 days before you get tickets at around 1500 to 2000 or even less. So, what level of discount do we ask for blind passengers? We can certainly ask for only discounted fair tickets always for blind persons but I really don't think they will agree to that. It is too dynamic and fluctuating. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of disability rights initiative Sent: Wednesday, 09 August 2006 1:07 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air dear kiran, thankyou for the clarifications. as i see it the focus should be on facilities whether it is provided by iaai or by the airlines themselves. also it is clear that if the discounted tickets are sold out then one can avail the concessional tickets. but can we still ask for any disabled person to be provided a discounted ticket at all times (as discounted tickets are lesser than concessional tickets)even if the discounted tickets are sold out? the airlines need not break any rules to accomodate the disabled person for the discounted ticket and probably they only need to modify their policy and maybe confirm some discounted tickets only at the last moment so as to accomodate a disabled person. or would this not be possible as these tickets are an incentive to the early booker? can you clarify this as well please. many thanks rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Let me try to clarify this: Definitions: Discounted ticket: This is a ticket offered by the airlines to any individual irrespective of their disability or any other condition to attract more passengers to their airline. Discounted tickets may be of various types and classes. The amount of discount available may depend on the date of booking and the passenger load. Full fair: This is the full price that exists between a source and a destination. Concessional fair: This fair is offered to persons with disabilities or other catagories on the full fair and not on discounted fair. Having cleared up the terminology. Let me try to explain the current situation. 1. Before the airlines introduced discounted fairs, there were only the full fair which was paid by most passengers and the concessional fair which is paid by disabled passenger. 2. Some airlines like Jet Airways had a restriction on the number of concessional tickets they were willing to offer on their flights. So, if the flight is almost booked, the passengers who were requesting concessional tickets were put on waitlist status. This never happened to me but I have seen it happen to others. Indian Airlines did not have any such restriction on their flights as far as I know. Even in case of Jet Airways, the fact cannot be proved because unlike with Indian Airlines, Jet Airways does not give you a waitlist number and the booking status of a flight is not public. 3. The number of discounted fair tickets is determined by the airlines based on a number of factors including, passenger load on that day, competition in the sector and other factors. These fairs may change dynamically as airlines try to maximise their returns. In the category of discounted fairs, there is no question of concessional fair and as a result there will be no restriction on the number of tickets that blind persons can book on these discounted tickets. 4. If there are 25 disabled persons travelling on a flight and only 20 discounted tickets are available, the remaining 5 passengers can definitely book concessional fair tickets. There is no restriction as such except as mentioned in point number 2 above. These days, more often than not, the discounted fair is less than the concessional fair. As a result, I don't see any point in asking airlines to lift the restriction on the fixed number of concessional tickets. There is no doubt that the concession for an escort will be grosely misused. If I am travelling with my wife (just for example, I am still single), and there is 50% concession for a blind passenger and an escort, I would definitely use the provision inspite of the fact that 1, I can very well travel alone or both of us could travel by train and 2, I have the financial means to pay for a full fair or discounted fair for my wife.
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
That was by airdeccan and airdeccan does not give any concession to blind passengers. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:13 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Oh well, I once travelled from Hyderabad to Bangalore for Rs 721 inclusive of taxes. Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harish Sent: Tuesday, 08 August 2006 9:01 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajiv Since the advent of the low cost airline concept, the airlines are running in shoe string budget. Asking for a furthur discount would not carry us anywhere. makes more sense asking for fascilities. Let me illustrate an incident, A full fare between Bangalore to Hyderabad last year was arround Rs. 5,000, the discount ticket using concession would come to arround Rs. 2,500. However the reduced fare without concession came to Rs. 1,200. Can you expect to get any furthur discount? Harish. - Original Message - From: disability rights initiative [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air i have been following this topic with interest and frankly, i admire all of you guys who travel around so confidently without any escorts. but personally, being late blind myself, i am mortally scared of travellling alone. its not the fear of travelling but the fear of falling of steps, escalators, railway platforms and the like and strongly feel that for air travel also escorts should be allowed on discounted tickets like in the railways. i am sure there are quite a few of us who have to travel and are late blind and a little late in life to overcome the fear. it would be a good idea to encourage views from across the list so as to enable us to have a clearer picture. prasana pinchas case and also rajiv rajans case (locomotor disabled with cerebral palsy who was forcibly medicated at chennai for being mistaken for a mentally ill person) filed by hrln has resulted in these guidelines being framed by dgca and ccpd has sought our interventions on these guidelines so i will really appreciate a more vigorous expression of views on this topic. and if quite a few of us feel that escorts should also be allowed on discounted tickets i feel there is no harm in expressing the same. if airlines are offering so many tickets on discounted fares one more for an escort will hardly matter but this is my personal opinion. regards rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air I get a feeling that you want to argue for argument sake and do not want to look at the practical issues and repurcations of your arguments. If you cannot travel alone in a flight inspite of the fact that the airport authorities and airline staff take good care of you, I am sorry to say but you better not travel anywhere. Railways do not provide any sort of help and so they allow for an escort. This is totally impractical and unfair when it comes to airlines. If you do not want to travel alone, you are always free to take the train. Secondly, I really don't understand why do people make so much fuss about seating. There is no way and it is totally unsafe for any sort of disabled person to be seated near the emergency exits. And if the staff decides that they can help you better by seating you at a particular place, what is the big deal? They can ask anyone to change seats and not just blind persons. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 08 August 2006 2:02 PM To: ACCESSINDIA@accessindia.org.in Subject: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Of dear, Let us leave somethings for the nodal agencies to take care. We require an escort to assist us during the travel. we want a concessional ticket for an escort. We do not need an escort if Govt. could do that for us. Let the checking authority take care of verify the veracity of a true escort or a 'business associate'??? We are aware of this fraud is enough to know our responsibilities. But facilities could never be denied upon apprehensions. Seating a blind person at the rear or front-should it be an issue? Why should a blind person be discriminated to get allotted a particular seat?? Let the crew
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
very true, only limited number of seats are allocated for concessional tickets. For example, In Indian airlines, the class of concession for PWD and Senior citizens is class M and in Airsahara it is class Q and in Jet airways it is class S. Many a time, they will tell you that there is no M or H or Q class on a particular flight. In this situation, we are left with no alternative but to buy a non-concessional ticket. What we are demanding is that we must get fifty percent concession on full price to the extent of last seat available on the flight. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: disability rights initiative [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air dear rakesh, harish, kiran, manish, rajesh and subramani, i am taking the liberty to write to all of you and others on the matter of concessional/ discounted tickets to seek some clarifications. to my knowledge, during the times of normal fares, concessional tickets were offered to pwds irrespective of the fact of how many pwds travelled on the flight and was given purely on the grounds of disability. check me if i am wrong. in recent times discounted tickets are offered to persons other than pwds on a certain number of seats per flight. this is a business practise to get as many persons to use the particular airline and has nothing to do with disability. so i assume if there are 20 discounted tickets available on a particular flight and 25 pwds travelling, only 20 might get discounted tickets and the other 5 will have to travel on normal fares , or would these five then be entitled to concessional tickets? if the former is correct then this logic and practise is discriminatory and needs to be addressed. in which case what we need to counter is that irrespective of number of discounted seats in a flight pwds should at all times be given discounted tickets using the logic that if the tickets were not discounted pwds would in any case have got a concessional ticket. also most of us in the list feel that it would not be correct to ask for discounted/ concessional tickets for escorts and the airlines need to provide facilities to offset the same. can i have your feedback by today evening as we are to place our suggestions by tomorrow. thanks rajive- Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Dear Friends, I think the whole issue of concession is getting confused. The discounted or concessional tickets for blind passengers a class apart altogether with all airlines. That is, there are limited number of seats on each flight. What we require is that even if there is one seat available in the flight, we must get a confirmed seat. The airlines should not deny us the concessional seats if that particular class is full. Suppose, there are ten or twenty or maybe two blind passengers who want to fly on a flight, according to the present system, all the blind passengers with not get a confirmed seat if the low fair seats are full. Concession is not an issue, the issue is availability of concessional ticket to blind passengers to the last available seat on a given flight. Please give your suggestions. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajiv Since the advent of the low cost airline concept, the airlines are running in shoe string budget. Asking for a furthur discount would not carry us anywhere. makes more sense asking for fascilities. Let me illustrate an incident, A full fare between Bangalore to Hyderabad last year was arround Rs. 5,000, the discount ticket using concession would come to arround Rs. 2,500. However the reduced fare without concession came to Rs. 1,200. Can you expect to get any furthur discount? Harish. - Original Message - From: disability rights initiative [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air i have been following this topic with interest and frankly, i admire all of you guys who travel around so confidently without any escorts. but personally, being late blind myself, i am mortally scared of travellling alone. its not the fear of
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi! I wanted to send this mail a couple of days ago but apparently it didn't travel to the list. There is something wrong with my LotusNotes. For example, I am getting 2 copies of every mail from AI. Anyway, I am getting the issue sorted out. Of late I have been opting for tele check-in and choosing my own seat. I have been flying Jet for the last 10 years but never been compelled to seat on the last row which doesn't recline at all. Of course it's convenient to be in row 25 or 26 from where we can reach the WashRoom comfortably and yet not be bothered by passengers frequenting it or by the non reclining row. This also gives a sense of comfort the crew stationed near the rear exit. On the issue of concession, we should try and see if our original S class status is maintained even when we opt for the lowest prevailing fare Thereby allowing us a little more flexibility with scheduling etc. Asking for a further discount will only make us feel second class. After all, those of us who often fly are not economically backward. however this is my individual opinion. A few years ago I requested for braille safety instruction manual and was happy to see Jet implement it within six month of that incident. A reasonable request that we can make is the provision to receive us from the car park on arrival. I believe this provision is being made effective in EU countries. Of course due to personal rapport, I get this privilege at Kolkata airport from where I frequently fly and thus feel that the same can be institutionalized. Atul Ranjan Sahay Head Business Excellence JUSCO Ltd. Phone: +91-9234553326 DISCLAIMER*** Information contained and transmitted by this e-mail is confidential and proprietary to Tata Steel Ltd. and is intended for use only by the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient , you are notified that any dissemination or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited and you are requested to delete this e-mail immediately and notify the originator. Tata Steel does not enter into any binding agreement with any party by e-mail. Any views expressed by an individual do not necessarily reflect the view of Tata Steel. Tata Steel is not responsible for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of information provided. While this e-mail has been checked for all known viruses the addressee should also scan for viruses. To know more about Tata Steel please visit www.tatasteel.com To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Let me once again clarify that there is no special class for blind passengers in 1. air deccan, 2. king fisher, 3. spicejet. 4. goair. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajeev, As I understand it, there are various levels of discount fairs available depending on the date of booking and the passenger load. For example, Air deccan tickets for Hyderabad to Bangalore range from 500 to 3100 excluding airport taxes. 500 tickets are rarely available. On an average if you book 3 to 4 weeks in advance you will get around 1000/1200 Around 2 weeks it will be 1500 to 2000. If one is lucky enough one or two flights do not have too many bookings and even 2 or 3 days before you get tickets at around 1500 to 2000 or even less. So, what level of discount do we ask for blind passengers? We can certainly ask for only discounted fair tickets always for blind persons but I really don't think they will agree to that. It is too dynamic and fluctuating. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of disability rights initiative Sent: Wednesday, 09 August 2006 1:07 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air dear kiran, thankyou for the clarifications. as i see it the focus should be on facilities whether it is provided by iaai or by the airlines themselves. also it is clear that if the discounted tickets are sold out then one can avail the concessional tickets. but can we still ask for any disabled person to be provided a discounted ticket at all times (as discounted tickets are lesser than concessional tickets)even if the discounted tickets are sold out? the airlines need not break any rules to accomodate the disabled person for the discounted ticket and probably they only need to modify their policy and maybe confirm some discounted tickets only at the last moment so as to accomodate a disabled person. or would this not be possible as these tickets are an incentive to the early booker? can you clarify this as well please. many thanks rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Let me try to clarify this: Definitions: Discounted ticket: This is a ticket offered by the airlines to any individual irrespective of their disability or any other condition to attract more passengers to their airline. Discounted tickets may be of various types and classes. The amount of discount available may depend on the date of booking and the passenger load. Full fair: This is the full price that exists between a source and a destination. Concessional fair: This fair is offered to persons with disabilities or other catagories on the full fair and not on discounted fair. Having cleared up the terminology. Let me try to explain the current situation. 1. Before the airlines introduced discounted fairs, there were only the full fair which was paid by most passengers and the concessional fair which is paid by disabled passenger. 2. Some airlines like Jet Airways had a restriction on the number of concessional tickets they were willing to offer on their flights. So, if the flight is almost booked, the passengers who were requesting concessional tickets were put on waitlist status. This never happened to me but I have seen it happen to others. Indian Airlines did not have any such restriction on their flights as far as I know. Even in case of Jet Airways, the fact cannot be proved because unlike with Indian Airlines, Jet Airways does not give you a waitlist number and the booking status of a flight is not public. 3. The number of discounted fair tickets is determined by the airlines based on a number of factors including, passenger load on that day, competition in the sector and other factors. These fairs may change dynamically as airlines try to maximise their returns. In the category of discounted fairs, there is no question of concessional fair and as a result there will be no restriction on the number of tickets that blind persons can book on these discounted tickets. 4. If there are 25 disabled persons travelling on a flight and only 20 discounted tickets are available, the remaining 5 passengers can definitely book concessional fair tickets. There is no restriction as such except as mentioned in point number 2 above. These days, more often than not, the discounted fair is less than the concessional fair. As a result, I
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Hi Kiran Supplementing on what you have said, At Jet Air, at the time of booking a ticket, if all the seats marked for concession ticket was sold off, the passenger is wait listed. However, they say, if you pay full fare, you would get a confirmed ticket. When such a situation arrose, I would book on Indian airlines and book a confirmed ticket. This restriction is not there with I.A. I can only guess when the seat gets confirmed in the last minute they may be taking the concessional fare. I have not run into that situation. By choice, I always prefer Indian Airlines and folks up there are very sweet with me as until now. Harish. - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Let me try to clarify this: Definitions: Discounted ticket: This is a ticket offered by the airlines to any individual irrespective of their disability or any other condition to attract more passengers to their airline. Discounted tickets may be of various types and classes. The amount of discount available may depend on the date of booking and the passenger load. Full fair: This is the full price that exists between a source and a destination. Concessional fair: This fair is offered to persons with disabilities or other catagories on the full fair and not on discounted fair. Having cleared up the terminology. Let me try to explain the current situation. 1. Before the airlines introduced discounted fairs, there were only the full fair which was paid by most passengers and the concessional fair which is paid by disabled passenger. 2. Some airlines like Jet Airways had a restriction on the number of concessional tickets they were willing to offer on their flights. So, if the flight is almost booked, the passengers who were requesting concessional tickets were put on waitlist status. This never happened to me but I have seen it happen to others. Indian Airlines did not have any such restriction on their flights as far as I know. Even in case of Jet Airways, the fact cannot be proved because unlike with Indian Airlines, Jet Airways does not give you a waitlist number and the booking status of a flight is not public. 3. The number of discounted fair tickets is determined by the airlines based on a number of factors including, passenger load on that day, competition in the sector and other factors. These fairs may change dynamically as airlines try to maximise their returns. In the category of discounted fairs, there is no question of concessional fair and as a result there will be no restriction on the number of tickets that blind persons can book on these discounted tickets. 4. If there are 25 disabled persons travelling on a flight and only 20 discounted tickets are available, the remaining 5 passengers can definitely book concessional fair tickets. There is no restriction as such except as mentioned in point number 2 above. These days, more often than not, the discounted fair is less than the concessional fair. As a result, I don't see any point in asking airlines to lift the restriction on the fixed number of concessional tickets. There is no doubt that the concession for an escort will be grosely misused. If I am travelling with my wife (just for example, I am still single), and there is 50% concession for a blind passenger and an escort, I would definitely use the provision inspite of the fact that 1, I can very well travel alone or both of us could travel by train and 2, I have the financial means to pay for a full fair or discounted fair for my wife. Again, with the discounted fair policy, the concessional fair ticket even for an escort may prove a provision not used much. One more point I would like to add is the fact that the services provided to persons with disabilities by low cost airlines is almost non existent in some airports. It should be made mandatory for airlines to have staff to assist blind persons in boarding the aircraft and so on. This is more so in sectors where only low cost airlines operate. Alternatively, these services can be taken up by the airport authorities because 1, they will have enough staff and 2, we as passengers also pay airport taxes and so the airports do earn some revenue. This happens in Dubai where the airport itself is responsible for the services offered to disabled passengers. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of disability rights initiative Sent: Wednesday, 09 August 2006 11:10 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air dear rakesh, harish, kiran, manish, rajesh and subramani, i am taking the liberty to write to all of you and others on the matter of concessional/ discounted tickets to seek some
[AI] info on mobile phones
Hello Friends! This is my first mail to this group. A warm hello to everyone. I am presently working as Manager with Reserve Bank of India, New Delhi. Prior to this I have worked with NABARD, Mumbai as Asst. Manager for about 18 months. Here is some info on Mobile phones If you receive a phone call on your mobile from any person, saying that, he or she is a company engineer, or telling that they're checking your mobile line and you have to press # 90 or #09 or any other number. End this call immediately without pressing any numbers. There is a Fraud company using a device that once you press #90 or #09 they can access Your SIM card and make calls at your expense. All mobile users pay attention if you receive a phone call and your Mobile phone displays (XALAN) on the screen don't answer the call, END THE CALL IMMEDIATELY, if you answer the call, your phone will be Infected by a virus.This virus will erase all IMEI and IMSI information from both your phone and your SIM card, which will make your phone unable to connect with the telephone network. You will have to buy a new phone. This information has been confirmed by both Motorola and Nokia. There are over 3 Million mobile phones being infected by this virus in all around the world now. You can also check this news in the CNN web site Regards Subhash Agarwal To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] good ftp sites
Hi, An Editional information may be more benifitial for the list members, particularly for those who are interested in and, academically or otherwise, involved with literature. These sites are conducted by a yahoo group called 'blindbooks'. If you subscribe to it, you will get information regarding new books that gets uploaded on the sites. I myself am a member and I receive a lot of mails regarding some new books uploaded every day, although I must confess, at the same time, that many of them do not suit my interests. However, I think you should try once, if you have not tried the group before. Thanks and regards Viraj.- Original Message - From: Aruni Arsh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: [AI] good ftp sites Hi listers, this mail was forwarded to me by Viraj who is on our list. I thought of sharing the two ftp sites with you all. The first one is a very good source for e-books while the second is really cool and contains audio books, audio described movies, and many many more things. ftp://jeffstud:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/public_ftp/incoming/books ftp://booklist:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] info on mobile phones
Hello, Very happy to welcome you to join this group! Thank you very much for your information on virus in mobile phones. With regards, Gopalakrishnan - Original Message - From: subhash nandlal agarwal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 4:56 PM Subject: [AI] info on mobile phones Hello Friends! This is my first mail to this group. A warm hello to everyone. I am presently working as Manager with Reserve Bank of India, New Delhi. Prior to this I have worked with NABARD, Mumbai as Asst. Manager for about 18 months. Here is some info on Mobile phones If you receive a phone call on your mobile from any person, saying that, he or she is a company engineer, or telling that they're checking your mobile line and you have to press # 90 or #09 or any other number. End this call immediately without pressing any numbers. There is a Fraud company using a device that once you press #90 or #09 they can access Your SIM card and make calls at your expense. All mobile users pay attention if you receive a phone call and your Mobile phone displays (XALAN) on the screen don't answer the call, END THE CALL IMMEDIATELY, if you answer the call, your phone will be Infected by a virus.This virus will erase all IMEI and IMSI information from both your phone and your SIM card, which will make your phone unable to connect with the telephone network. You will have to buy a new phone. This information has been confirmed by both Motorola and Nokia. There are over 3 Million mobile phones being infected by this virus in all around the world now. You can also check this news in the CNN web site Regards Subhash Agarwal To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in __ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/ To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Hello Rakesh Indian airlines does not discriminate on this issue. If a seat is available, then they will give you discount confirmed seat. However, that is not the case with Jet Air. They have a quota of concessional seats and keep you wait listed. Again, it is a matter of economics. Some other airlines don't offer any concession at all. In my opinion, DGCA guidelines cannot fall on the ticket fares and concessions or any package offered by the airlines. It is frevelous on our part to make any recommendations on it. 1) What we should insist upon is that no airlines can deplane or deny ticket to a blind person who are not escorted. 2) Permission to carry guide dogs without extra cost. 3) To provide wheel chair to the physically disabled without extra cost. Personally I feel it is a non issue regarding the seating preference made by airlines for operational reasons. Let me site an incident which apparently looks discriminatory. I was once flying with my wife and 2 infants on arm. After I boarded, the air hostess came up to us and asked us to sit on either different rows or on another wing. I thought it was ridiculous and obliged unwillingly, after she kept insisting there was some rule to that effect. Much later, I narated that incident to another hostess who was very friendly. She explained the reason for that rule. In each section, eg. a lot of 3 seats, there are 4 oxygen ducts. If there are more than 1 infant in arm, during an emergency there will be a short fall of the oxygen duct. Merely rearranging the seating the problem is solved. By and large when a rule is made, there is a definite purpose for it. We may not readily understand it. It is my guess that, Jet air may be training the crew to first go and attend passengers in the last row first during an emergency. Indian airlines, prefers to seat disabled passengers in the first row. It is in our interest not to disturb this. Harish - Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Dear Friends, I think the whole issue of concession is getting confused. The discounted or concessional tickets for blind passengers a class apart altogether with all airlines. That is, there are limited number of seats on each flight. What we require is that even if there is one seat available in the flight, we must get a confirmed seat. The airlines should not deny us the concessional seats if that particular class is full. Suppose, there are ten or twenty or maybe two blind passengers who want to fly on a flight, according to the present system, all the blind passengers with not get a confirmed seat if the low fair seats are full. Concession is not an issue, the issue is availability of concessional ticket to blind passengers to the last available seat on a given flight. Please give your suggestions. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajiv Since the advent of the low cost airline concept, the airlines are running in shoe string budget. Asking for a furthur discount would not carry us anywhere. makes more sense asking for fascilities. Let me illustrate an incident, A full fare between Bangalore to Hyderabad last year was arround Rs. 5,000, the discount ticket using concession would come to arround Rs. 2,500. However the reduced fare without concession came to Rs. 1,200. Can you expect to get any furthur discount? Harish. - Original Message - From: disability rights initiative [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air i have been following this topic with interest and frankly, i admire all of you guys who travel around so confidently without any escorts. but personally, being late blind myself, i am mortally scared of travellling alone. its not the fear of travelling but the fear of falling of steps, escalators, railway platforms and the like and strongly feel that for air travel also escorts should be allowed on discounted tickets like in the railways. i am sure there are quite a few of us who have to travel and are late blind and a little late in life to overcome the fear. it would be a good idea to encourage views from across the list so as to enable us to have a clearer picture. prasana pinchas case and also rajiv rajans case (locomotor disabled with cerebral palsy who was forcibly medicated at chennai for being mistaken for a mentally ill person) filed by
Re: [AI] C.N.G. bus and free pass
Please specify what reason they give for this kind of eratic behaviour? Do blind persons in Delhi also face this situation? Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: pathan firoz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Cc: Dr.bhushan punani [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:45 PM Subject: [AI] C.N.G. bus and free pass in gujarat in state transport buses along with ascort blind person are getting free pass uptill now now introduction of new c.n.g. buses driver do not allow blind person to travel free and humiliate themon any argument still old buses running with diesel allowing blind man with ascort free ride, solwly all buses will convert in to c.n.g. then whot about blind person we have talk to blind association and also disable comitioner but no response ground reality blind person has to wait long for diesel bus to arrive do same thing happen to ther state also what steps has taken to prevent this in your state please advise firoj [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger.yahoo.com To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Who should pay for concessions?
In Uttar Pradesh, the roadways has agreed to give concession to blind passengers only after it got an agreement signed with the Handicapped welfare department to pay for the concessions they give to blind passengers. Every year, the amount paid by the Handicapped welfare department is approximately 2 to 2.5 lakh rupees. It was a very complex process to maintain the record and accounts and it took them more than two years to finally evolve a method to do so. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Kiran Kaja [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:33 PM Subject: [AI] Who should pay for concessions? Hi all, Having followed the thread on DGCA guidelines and the subsequent discussion of concessions for the blind or escorts, I have been thinking about it for a couple of days. I feel that in our country, the existence of public sector in businesses like transport and education has benifitted persons with blindness. If all the industry and utility services were run by private firms, I don't imagine they would come forward with so many concessions and exemptions for us. Providing concessions is much simpler for public sector or government. However, this raises a big question of who should eventually pay for the concessions? As citizens of the country, we are entitled to lead a life which closely resembles a sighted or normal person who doesn't have a disability. This obviously entails extra expenditure because of various reasons. To offset this additional cost, concessions and exemptions are provided. I strongly feel that since the government collects taxes from individuals as well as businesses in the private sector, it should be the one paying for these concessions. If the Railways were privatised, the cost of providing concession to blind persons should be born by the government and not by the private company which runs the railways. If a private company voluntarily comes forward with concessions, it is a very good gesture on their part. But if concessions are imposed by law, the cost of these concessions should be reimbursed. For instance, when most of the other passengers of airlines were paying full fair for their tickets, blind persons were only paying half. If we put the social argument of concession aside for a while, the airline company was loozing money by carrying blind passengers. The airline company in question also pays the same tax irrespective of offering concessions. So, there is no insentive at all for the airline company by carrying blind passengers. On the contrary, the company gets less money. I think it is the responsibility of the government to provide or pay for the concessions as they should look after the welfare of its citizens. Private companies or public sector companies for that matter should never be forced to bear the cost of concessions. What do you all think about this? I know this is never going to happen in India. Regards, Kiran. To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger.yahoo.com To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Hae, I'm really fed up with this topic. it's more than enough, I guess. - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rakesh In which sector of I.A. is there no concession? Harish. - Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:24 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air As I said, In Indian Airlines, the special class for blind and other disabled persons is M. It has very limited number of seats, may be, one or two on each flight. In some flights they do not have this class at all. In such,cases, they do not issue blind concession at all and you are forced to buy a full fair or any other category of fairs if it is available. I have more than once faced this situation. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hello Rakesh Indian airlines does not discriminate on this issue. If a seat is available, then they will give you discount confirmed seat. However, that is not the case with Jet Air. They have a quota of concessional seats and keep you wait listed. Again, it is a matter of economics. Some other airlines don't offer any concession at all. In my opinion, DGCA guidelines cannot fall on the ticket fares and concessions or any package offered by the airlines. It is frevelous on our part to make any recommendations on it. 1) What we should insist upon is that no airlines can deplane or deny ticket to a blind person who are not escorted. 2) Permission to carry guide dogs without extra cost. 3) To provide wheel chair to the physically disabled without extra cost. Personally I feel it is a non issue regarding the seating preference made by airlines for operational reasons. Let me site an incident which apparently looks discriminatory. I was once flying with my wife and 2 infants on arm. After I boarded, the air hostess came up to us and asked us to sit on either different rows or on another wing. I thought it was ridiculous and obliged unwillingly, after she kept insisting there was some rule to that effect. Much later, I narated that incident to another hostess who was very friendly. She explained the reason for that rule. In each section, eg. a lot of 3 seats, there are 4 oxygen ducts. If there are more than 1 infant in arm, during an emergency there will be a short fall of the oxygen duct. Merely rearranging the seating the problem is solved. By and large when a rule is made, there is a definite purpose for it. We may not readily understand it. It is my guess that, Jet air may be training the crew to first go and attend passengers in the last row first during an emergency. Indian airlines, prefers to seat disabled passengers in the first row. It is in our interest not to disturb this. Harish - Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Dear Friends, I think the whole issue of concession is getting confused. The discounted or concessional tickets for blind passengers a class apart altogether with all airlines. That is, there are limited number of seats on each flight. What we require is that even if there is one seat available in the flight, we must get a confirmed seat. The airlines should not deny us the concessional seats if that particular class is full. Suppose, there are ten or twenty or maybe two blind passengers who want to fly on a flight, according to the present system, all the blind passengers with not get a confirmed seat if the low fair seats are full. Concession is not an issue, the issue is availability of concessional ticket to blind passengers to the last available seat on a given flight. Please give your suggestions. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajiv Since the advent of the low cost airline concept, the airlines are running in shoe string budget. Asking for a furthur discount would not carry us anywhere. makes more sense asking for fascilities. Let me illustrate an
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Dear Kasha, I will certainly know when a topic is crossed the limits. We are still having meaningful discussions on the issue. I am perfectly aware when a discussion is going far beyond intended topic. If you do not want to read the mails of this topic, there is a Delete key on your keyboard. Make good use of it. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kasha Sent: Thursday, 10 August 2006 8:09 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hae, I'm really fed up with this topic. it's more than enough, I guess. - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rakesh In which sector of I.A. is there no concession? Harish. - Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:24 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air As I said, In Indian Airlines, the special class for blind and other disabled persons is M. It has very limited number of seats, may be, one or two on each flight. In some flights they do not have this class at all. In such,cases, they do not issue blind concession at all and you are forced to buy a full fair or any other category of fairs if it is available. I have more than once faced this situation. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Harish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hello Rakesh Indian airlines does not discriminate on this issue. If a seat is available, then they will give you discount confirmed seat. However, that is not the case with Jet Air. They have a quota of concessional seats and keep you wait listed. Again, it is a matter of economics. Some other airlines don't offer any concession at all. In my opinion, DGCA guidelines cannot fall on the ticket fares and concessions or any package offered by the airlines. It is frevelous on our part to make any recommendations on it. 1) What we should insist upon is that no airlines can deplane or deny ticket to a blind person who are not escorted. 2) Permission to carry guide dogs without extra cost. 3) To provide wheel chair to the physically disabled without extra cost. Personally I feel it is a non issue regarding the seating preference made by airlines for operational reasons. Let me site an incident which apparently looks discriminatory. I was once flying with my wife and 2 infants on arm. After I boarded, the air hostess came up to us and asked us to sit on either different rows or on another wing. I thought it was ridiculous and obliged unwillingly, after she kept insisting there was some rule to that effect. Much later, I narated that incident to another hostess who was very friendly. She explained the reason for that rule. In each section, eg. a lot of 3 seats, there are 4 oxygen ducts. If there are more than 1 infant in arm, during an emergency there will be a short fall of the oxygen duct. Merely rearranging the seating the problem is solved. By and large when a rule is made, there is a definite purpose for it. We may not readily understand it. It is my guess that, Jet air may be training the crew to first go and attend passengers in the last row first during an emergency. Indian airlines, prefers to seat disabled passengers in the first row. It is in our interest not to disturb this. Harish - Original Message - From: Dr Rakesh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Dear Friends, I think the whole issue of concession is getting confused. The discounted or concessional tickets for blind passengers a class apart altogether with all airlines. That is, there are limited number of seats on each flight. What we require is that even if there is one seat available in the flight, we must get a confirmed seat. The airlines should not deny us the concessional seats if that particular class is full. Suppose, there are ten or twenty or maybe two blind passengers who want to fly on a flight, according to the present system, all the blind passengers with not get a confirmed seat if the low fair seats are full. Concession is not an issue, the issue is availability of concessional ticket to blind passengers to the last available seat on a given flight. Please give your suggestions. Dr. Rakesh
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
Dr Rakesh: The explanation very often from Air Deccan is that the fairs in themselves are very less, compared to other airlines, and so they feel they need not offer concession. Sounds correct, though it needs to be probed if this in itself can preclude any airlines from giving concessional tickets (or discounted tickets as some may wish to call it). Also, if most of us feel concessional tickets are important, why don't we ask for a clause in PWD act or relevant acts that mandates concession in transportation, however nominal it may be? Subramani -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dr Rakesh Jain Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 1:30 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air *** No virus was detected in the attachment no filename Your mail has been scanned by InterScan MSS. *** That was by airdeccan and airdeccan does not give any concession to blind passengers. Dr. Rakesh Jain Mobile (Reliance): 09336787900 Mobile (BSNL): 09415787900 Residence: 05224001112 and 05222732345 Skype ID: dr.rjain - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:13 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Oh well, I once travelled from Hyderabad to Bangalore for Rs 721 inclusive of taxes. Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Harish Sent: Tuesday, 08 August 2006 9:01 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajiv Since the advent of the low cost airline concept, the airlines are running in shoe string budget. Asking for a furthur discount would not carry us anywhere. makes more sense asking for fascilities. Let me illustrate an incident, A full fare between Bangalore to Hyderabad last year was arround Rs. 5,000, the discount ticket using concession would come to arround Rs. 2,500. However the reduced fare without concession came to Rs. 1,200. Can you expect to get any furthur discount? Harish. - Original Message - From: disability rights initiative [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air i have been following this topic with interest and frankly, i admire all of you guys who travel around so confidently without any escorts. but personally, being late blind myself, i am mortally scared of travellling alone. its not the fear of travelling but the fear of falling of steps, escalators, railway platforms and the like and strongly feel that for air travel also escorts should be allowed on discounted tickets like in the railways. i am sure there are quite a few of us who have to travel and are late blind and a little late in life to overcome the fear. it would be a good idea to encourage views from across the list so as to enable us to have a clearer picture. prasana pinchas case and also rajiv rajans case (locomotor disabled with cerebral palsy who was forcibly medicated at chennai for being mistaken for a mentally ill person) filed by hrln has resulted in these guidelines being framed by dgca and ccpd has sought our interventions on these guidelines so i will really appreciate a more vigorous expression of views on this topic. and if quite a few of us feel that escorts should also be allowed on discounted tickets i feel there is no harm in expressing the same. if airlines are offering so many tickets on discounted fares one more for an escort will hardly matter but this is my personal opinion. regards rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air I get a feeling that you want to argue for argument sake and do not want to look at the practical issues and repurcations of your arguments. If you cannot travel alone in a flight inspite of the fact that the airport authorities and airline staff take good care of you, I am sorry to say but you better not travel anywhere. Railways do not provide any sort of help and so they allow for an escort. This is totally impractical and unfair when it comes to airlines. If you do not want to travel alone, you are always free to take the train. Secondly, I really don't understand why do people make so much fuss about seating. There is no way and it is totally unsafe for any sort of disabled person to be seated near the emergency exits. And if the staff decides that they can help you better by seating you at a particular place, what is the big deal? They can ask anyone to
Re: [AI] FW: condolence
My condolences to Sanjay's family. Subramani -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaja, Kiran Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:22 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: [AI] FW: condolence *** No virus was detected in the attachment no filename Your mail has been scanned by InterScan MSS. *** Hi all, Sanjay Tandon was an active member of the list. Although I haven't had an opportunity to meet him personally, I realise that he has not been writing to the list of late. It is unfortunate that he has to leave this world at a young age. With deepest condolences to his friends and family Kiran. From: RAJAT [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 09 August 2006 10:19 AM To: Kaja, Kiran; Kiran Kaja Subject: condolence Dear Kiran, One of our group member Sanjay Tandon left us in May this year. I came to know about this news when I called upon his residence yesterday. His lungs failed and he left us at a very young age. May the departed soul rest in peace. Rajat Agarwal To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.i n To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air
got it kiran, discounted dtickets for the early birds. concessional tickets at all times. lets see how dgca responds to that. through this mail also a big thankyou to all of you who chipped in with valuable inputs. rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Hi Rajeev, As I understand it, there are various levels of discount fairs available depending on the date of booking and the passenger load. For example, Air deccan tickets for Hyderabad to Bangalore range from 500 to 3100 excluding airport taxes. 500 tickets are rarely available. On an average if you book 3 to 4 weeks in advance you will get around 1000/1200 Around 2 weeks it will be 1500 to 2000. If one is lucky enough one or two flights do not have too many bookings and even 2 or 3 days before you get tickets at around 1500 to 2000 or even less. So, what level of discount do we ask for blind passengers? We can certainly ask for only discounted fair tickets always for blind persons but I really don't think they will agree to that. It is too dynamic and fluctuating. Regards, Kiran. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of disability rights initiative Sent: Wednesday, 09 August 2006 1:07 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air dear kiran, thankyou for the clarifications. as i see it the focus should be on facilities whether it is provided by iaai or by the airlines themselves. also it is clear that if the discounted tickets are sold out then one can avail the concessional tickets. but can we still ask for any disabled person to be provided a discounted ticket at all times (as discounted tickets are lesser than concessional tickets)even if the discounted tickets are sold out? the airlines need not break any rules to accomodate the disabled person for the discounted ticket and probably they only need to modify their policy and maybe confirm some discounted tickets only at the last moment so as to accomodate a disabled person. or would this not be possible as these tickets are an incentive to the early booker? can you clarify this as well please. many thanks rajive - Original Message - From: Kaja, Kiran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [AI] DGCA Guidelines for Blind passengers travelling by Air Let me try to clarify this: Definitions: Discounted ticket: This is a ticket offered by the airlines to any individual irrespective of their disability or any other condition to attract more passengers to their airline. Discounted tickets may be of various types and classes. The amount of discount available may depend on the date of booking and the passenger load. Full fair: This is the full price that exists between a source and a destination. Concessional fair: This fair is offered to persons with disabilities or other catagories on the full fair and not on discounted fair. Having cleared up the terminology. Let me try to explain the current situation. 1. Before the airlines introduced discounted fairs, there were only the full fair which was paid by most passengers and the concessional fair which is paid by disabled passenger. 2. Some airlines like Jet Airways had a restriction on the number of concessional tickets they were willing to offer on their flights. So, if the flight is almost booked, the passengers who were requesting concessional tickets were put on waitlist status. This never happened to me but I have seen it happen to others. Indian Airlines did not have any such restriction on their flights as far as I know. Even in case of Jet Airways, the fact cannot be proved because unlike with Indian Airlines, Jet Airways does not give you a waitlist number and the booking status of a flight is not public. 3. The number of discounted fair tickets is determined by the airlines based on a number of factors including, passenger load on that day, competition in the sector and other factors. These fairs may change dynamically as airlines try to maximise their returns. In the category of discounted fairs, there is no question of concessional fair and as a result there will be no restriction on the number of tickets that blind persons can book on these discounted tickets. 4. If there are 25 disabled persons travelling on a flight and only 20 discounted tickets are available, the remaining 5 passengers can definitely book concessional fair tickets. There is no restriction as such except as mentioned in point number 2 above. These days, more often than not, the discounted fair is less than the concessional fair. As a result, I don't
Re: [AI] C.N.G. bus and free pass
Well, in UP it often happens. The conductor always ill treat us as if he is paying for us. But because we are on the road so we cant take any action against them. What should be done for these people? Similar thing happens in railway stations. Once I was returning back from Jammu, and at the railway station, the clerk didnt gave me the ticket. She said that the train about which you are talking has left the station. When we said that it is on the platform, she denied. We were compelled to rush and get in the train which was still on the tplatform. Not having been provided by the ticket, we payed extra charges to the t t e. This is really a big problem. From: pathan firoz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in CC: Dr.bhushan punani [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [AI] C.N.G. bus and free pass Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 23:45:33 +0530 in gujarat in state transport buses along with ascort blind person are getting free pass uptill now now introduction of new c.n.g. buses driver do not allow blind person to travel free and humiliate themon any argument still old buses running with diesel allowing blind man with ascort free ride, solwly all buses will convert in to c.n.g. then whot about blind person we have talk to blind association and also disable comitioner but no response ground reality blind person has to wait long for diesel bus to arrive do same thing happen to ther state also what steps has taken to prevent this in your state please advise firoj [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in _ NRIs: Send Money FREE! Go ahead and register now! http://ads.mediaturf.net/event.ng/Type=clickFlightID=20273AdID=65989TargetID=11172Targets=11172Values=202,414,1093,1264,3122Redirect=http:%2F%2Fwww.icicinri.net%2Fmoney2india%2F%3Fm2i%3DBAC-MSN%26att%3DMSNTLM2I18CHAR%26rfr%3DMSNTLM2I18CHAR To unsubscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
