Re: Next release of Plasma Active, some things needed
On Thursday 02 May 2013 17:50:06 Marco Martin wrote: On Monday 29 April 2013, Marco Martin wrote: Hi all, With the Plasma Active team, we are thinking about doing a release shortly, since the code is now frozen, what still remains to do is some integration work. I think some of this works also depends from Mer and Nemo (but i could be wrong) small update on this: there will be a short irc meeting about this on wednesday may 8, 15:00 utc (i guess on #mer-meeting) with some active, nemo and mer people. Is there a log from that meeting somewhere? I couldn't attend, but I'd like to know the results :) ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: [Kde-pim] Kontact Touch Mail - Initial Mockup + Git Workflow
On Tuesday 14 May 2013 17:30:49 Michael Bohlender wrote: Some small bits of early feedback: I had originally planned to wait with feedback until there is a version which you considered ready for review, but since others already gave feedback, I'll add mine: * getting rid of all the repeated buttons for delete, etc. in the list would imho be nice. it's a LOT of visual noise and i'm concerned that on smaller screens they will take up space from the subject text and even be hard to hit accurately with the finger. perhaps move the buttons to the mostly-empty toolbar and require a select and chose the action workflow? you already have this in the mail view (the 2nd) mockup, so .. :) +1 visual noise and smaller screens are an issue. I wanted to allow a lion mail like workflow with the initial page. Therefor it would be good to offer these buttons with just one interaction (in this case tab) and not two. I was also thinking about enabling delete/important/unread/open actions by sliding the list item left/right half/complete but I don't know if/how I can make that work/consistent with the general app navigation (swiping left/right for next/prev page). Something that works great with touchscreens and which is already used extensively in Files is drag drop, so this is what should be used here as well: We already have an important - folder, so marking as important should be done by simply dragging one or multiple mails there. The same goes for moving to trash, so these two buttons can simply be removed and the interaction is consistent with Files. Opening should be done by simple tapping, so no need for an open button (it's only there in Lionmail because it's opened in a seperate application, since Lionmail is not an email client per se. In an email client, anything other than a simple tap to open an email in a list would be weird and inconsistent with the Column-based Navigation pattern. What does the down arrow button do? * in the editor the sidebar is on the right rather than the left like every other mockup. any reason for that? the sidebar in 1 and 2 is for navigation/browsing that will give you another main area while the sidebar in 3 (editor) is for interaction with the main areas content. I could make the sidebar in 1 and 2 use the same background as the main area (like the pagerow in bodega client) to make this even more evident. Yes. Since you're using the same pattern (Column-based navigation, http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Development/ActiveHIG/ColumnViews), it should look and feel similar to Add Ons. Actually, would it be possible to use the actual PageRow component here? If not, why not? Our goal is to re-use Plasma Components as much as possible, so if they are not suited, this may indicate that they need to be improved. About the Composer view: I like the way KMail handles adding new recipients (always leaving one empty row and adding one whenever the last empty row is used), would it be possible to use that in KMail Touch as well? Keep up the good work! Thomas ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: [Kde-pim] Kontact Touch Mail - Initial Mockup + Git Workflow
On Tuesday 14 May 2013 20:38:00 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: On Tuesday, May 14, 2013 20:17:25 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: We already have an important - folder, so marking as important should be done by simply dragging one or multiple mails there. The same goes for moving to trash, so these two buttons can simply be removed and the interaction is consistent with Files. Opening should be done by simple tapping, so no need for an open button I like the idea of dragging into trash or important .. we'll still need a way to quickly select multiple emails, so I'd keep the checkboxes. (Long pressing on each email to select would be highly annoying) Absolutely, the checkboxes should stay. However, selecting multiple mails via selection rectangle (as in Files) should be possible as well for consistency. Yes. Since you're using the same pattern (Column-based navigation, http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Development/ActiveHIG/ColumnViews), it should look and feel similar to Add Ons. Actually, would it be possible to use the actual PageRow component here? If not, why not? Our goal is to It is possible, but we won't be moving anything from Add Ons into the Plasma 1 QML imports. It uses PlasmaComponents.Page for this, though, so it should b easily reproducable. Erm... so the example code in http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Development/ActiveHIG/ColumnViews wouldn't work if someone tried to use it? ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: [Kde-pim] Kontact Touch Mail - Initial Mockup + Git Workflow
On Wednesday 15 May 2013 14:28:50 Marco Martin wrote: ok, so i changed this in kde-runtime (plasma1) and plsma-framework (plasma2) if the page item has a big implicitWidth, when it's in the last position it will have a width that is * at least columnwidth * a multiple of columnWidth * the nearest multiple of columnWidth so is open now to experiments ;) bugfixes aside, i would keep its behavior like that. so in the case of the email, you would have the folder list a 3rd of the screen wide, the message list 2 3rd of the screen. if you then click on a message, the message list gets resized to a 3rd and the opened message becomes 2 3rds. if it's in 3rds, quarters etc is something that isn't decided by the application, but by the component, depending from the window size, dpi etc. so for instance you would have a big screen, like the wetab, when a message is open, you would have a quarter for the folders, one quarter for the message list, 2 quarters for the open message, all visible at the same time. on a 7 inch screen you would have only 2 columns visible at once, with horizontal scrolling. on an even smaller screen, or vertical 7 inches you would see only a column at once, fullscreen, so always having to scroll (ie it always does the best it can given screen size and pixel density). Sounds pretty sensible to me. Of course we can't tell yet what people might want to do with a column-based view in the future, but this approach should make possible most of what actually makes sense, and it sounds like it adapts to different screen sizes / pixel densities very well. Great! ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: [Kde-pim] Kontact Touch Mail - Initial Mockup + Git Workflow
On Wednesday 15 May 2013 20:35:41 Björn Balazs wrote: I would like question whether using the column-based-navigation is actually a good decision. Remember that a lot of people have deep hierarchies of mail folders. As navigating actually is not the main focus when using mail, the navigation area might get too much weight in comparison to the actual list of mails within a selected folder, when the pattern is used (at least as far as I understand it, you can end up with e.g. 4 columns visible). I agree that deep folder hierarchies should not lead to having to go through multiple columns to get to your mail list, but that doesn't necessarily mean we have to abandon the whole approach, especially since tree views are not very touch-friendly either. Suggestions for this follow at the end of this email (because I have to make something clear in a reply to your summary beforehand). In the same category of problem falls the fact that dragging mails to trash will only work as long as the trash folder is visible (which cannot be assured using the column-based-navigation). Again, having trash as a drop-target while the other elements are for navigation only seems to be inconsistent and difficult to understand for the user. The trash folder would always be visible if we don't navigate through a folder hierarchy using the columns (and I agree with you that we shouldn't). Let's see dropping to which folder would not be possible: - Inbox: Works - New: Works (would mark a message as unread) - Important: Works (would mark as important) - Outbox: Works (at least Desktop KMail allows that) - Sent-mail: Works - Trash: Works - Template: Should work - Drafts: Should work All of these items except for New and Important are just normal folders, and so it should be possible to drag emails to them just like in Desktop Kmail. The two folders which are virtual - New and Important, are both cases where dragging mails into them to change their status makes perfect sense to me. So where do you perceive an inconsistency? Files has shown that drag drop is a much more intuitive interaction on a touch device than selecting and pressing a button on a toolbar. Summing it up - as far as I understand the mockup, it oversimplifies a bit too much. The matter is complex. Unfortunately. What I take from this is that we first need to define the usecase of KMail Touch / Active / Whateveritwillbecalled: Kontact Touch had the goal to be full-featured Kontact, just with a touch- optimized GUI. I know where that goal came from, but I don't think it was an ideal goal, and thus I don't think it should be the goal for our new approach. I do not believe it's possible to create a GUI that allows you to manage every aspect of enterprise-grade PIM comfortably on a mobile device, no matter how smart the interaction designers are. And I think that's why the current Kontact Touch - despite having been designed by smart people such as yourself - doesn't live up to its potential. This is an opinion which Mike obviously shares, and form previous discussions it seems to me that many others from the Plasma Active team share as well. What I see as typical usecases for mobile mail is reading up on important mails and replying to them, or writing new mails from scratch of course. Mike seems to have thought something similar, as he oriented his approach towards Lionmail, which is optimized for a pretty similar usecase (reading up on new emails and deciding what to do with them quickly). So I don't think the current approach is oversimplifying things, but instead is focusing on the usecases that are likely to be done on a mobile device, and that's why I like it. Surely it has to be possible to access all emails on your huge IMAP account with dozens of deeply nested folders from your mobile device as well, but this is probably a rather rare usecase which does not have to be offered prominently in the main UI. About the navigation through the folder hierarchy: I don't assume this is a common usecase for a mobile device. What I'd envision is users selecting a few favorite folders which are than shown in the list. Maybe add an entry Select folder to the list for selecting a folder anywhere in the hierarchy which then stays there until another one is selected for the case where a user has to deal with old mails somehwere deep in the hierarchy. New mails are all shown in new anyways, no matter where there are in the hierarchy. Cheers, Thomas ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: [Kde-pim] Kontact Touch Mail - Initial Mockup + Git Workflow
On 16.05.2013 11:47, Björn Balazs wrote: Hi Thomas, Michael, all, Ok, then I might have been on the wrong track, but as far as I understand the pattern you were referring to, multiple columns are the basic idea of it?!? Multiple columns for the general UI, but not for navigating a folder hierarchy, specifically. Actually New has gotten me on the wrong track. Yes, maybe that has to be renamed to unread (especially since I'm not sure if KMail distinguishes between new and unread like Thunderbird does anyway). I agree 100% that dragdrop is great (not only) for touch devices and would not question that. What I fear are inconsistencies in respect of the result after dragging (and hence problems with building up the mental model by the user): Mails are usually single instance items, so when dragging them to a different folder they get moved there. Copying mails is really a rare use-case and should be possible, but could be done somehow different. Now when the user is in a folder (by the way: How is the currently active folder visualized? - missing the mocks) and he drags a mial e.g. to Trash, that mail is moved there. If on the other hand she moves it to important only the state and not the place of the mail is changed. This could be confusing and is inconsistent. To suggest a solution: We could somehow visually seperate real and virtual folders - that would solve this inconsistency. Yes. The two virtual folders should be placed before the others and either be visually separated from the rest or should look slightly different. Summing it up - as far as I understand the mockup, it oversimplifies a bit too much. The matter is complex. Unfortunately. What I take from this is that we first need to define the usecase of KMail Touch / Active / Whateveritwillbecalled: Kontact Touch had the goal to be full-featured Kontact, just with a touch- optimized GUI. I know where that goal came from, but I don't think it was an ideal goal, and thus I don't think it should be the goal for our new approach. I do not believe it's possible to create a GUI that allows you to manage every aspect of enterprise-grade PIM comfortably on a mobile device, no matter how smart the interaction designers are. And I think that's why the current Kontact Touch - despite having been designed by smart people such as yourself - doesn't live up to its potential. This is an opinion which Mike obviously shares, and form previous discussions it seems to me that many others from the Plasma Active team share as well. What I see as typical usecases for mobile mail is reading up on important mails and replying to them, or writing new mails from scratch of course. Mike seems to have thought something similar, as he oriented his approach towards Lionmail, which is optimized for a pretty similar usecase (reading up on new emails and deciding what to do with them quickly). So I don't think the current approach is oversimplifying things, but instead is focusing on the usecases that are likely to be done on a mobile device, and that's why I like it. Surely it has to be possible to access all emails on your huge IMAP account with dozens of deeply nested folders from your mobile device as well, but this is probably a rather rare usecase which does not have to be offered prominently in the main UI. Well, I do have to disagree here a bit. People use mail quite differently. There are people that make excessive use of pre-sorting of mail, either using Sieve or clients rules. This has nothing to do with a business environment. Absolutely. Actually, I'm one of those people. However, on a mobile device, I would be satisfied with seeing all unread mails in one place, have quick access to my most frequently used folders and have a not-so-quick way to access the other mails in the rare cases I need to have a look at them later. Other people just leave everything in the inbox and work with read / unread status only and others again use flags like important / unimportant to manage their mails. Yes. I think a solution should allow all these ways of working with mails (and also those I forgot). But you are right, we need to agree on the use-cases we want to cover and if the team decides to leave those other use-cases out, well I would not be happy, but I will not do the work, so it would be ok... Another aspect is not only reading the mails, but also cleaning up. For this the user e.g. has to be able to move the mail to the target destination. Also: even if we do not want to have full enterprise (or desktop) complexity - as I do not see the I agree that there has to be some way to access every email that is on the server. However, I think that usecases like quickly dealing with incoming mails on the go are more frequent on mobile devices than big managing tasks and thus we should _optimize_ for those. Btw: Some part of your text seems to have been eaten at some point, i received only the first half of the last sentence of
Re: [Kde-pim] Kontact Touch Mail - Initial Mockup + Git Workflow
On Thursday 16 May 2013 20:58:11 Michael Bohlender wrote: Let me present to you: Iteration number 2 https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2wLkUtvD4v_ejZKU1g2ckM3aEUusp=shar ingtid=0B2wLkUtvD4v_SjBnTWx5YklnRTQ Good improvements overall! Based on your feedback I changed: # column background color # list position indicator Nice, things look more clear now. # position of new and important to top I assume there currently is no way to visually separate the two from the others? # renamed new to new / unread Is there a difference between new and unread? # new add own folders... I'm not sure if this is the optimal wording, but that can still be optimized later on. # new/important/delete button row replaced with dragdrop (not implemented) and/or a dialog that can be accessed by taping the mail-status icon bonus: the removal gives a little more space for a second line of preview I did not want to let go of the quick tapping solution for the lionmail workflow. This is a solution without the visual clutter that should also work on smaller screens. As long as a mail can be opened with single tap and as long as you can still start dragging from the icon, I'm absolutely fine with this. It's a good alternative for people who don't like drag drop and/or have problems with it. This will be the last mockup before GSoC. We need to agree on our usecases first before we continue. I will write down what I have in mind over the weekend so that we have a base for our discussion. Yes, this has to be done very soon. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Kontact Touch Mail - Usecases
On Friday 17 May 2013 19:23:11 Michael Bohlender wrote: Hello everyone The discussion about the initial mockups has shown that we need to agree on the usecases for Kontact Touch Mail first before we continue. I created a wikipage for that: http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/mail#Usecases Feel free to post any usecase you want to see enabled and we will discuss and classify them. This is not limited to what can be done in a single GSoC project. We need to be aware of everything we want to support as the general interaction design will likely constrain future features. My goal is to enable a set of core workflows that are likely to appear on a mobile/tablet device while keeping the PIM suite concept and business users in mind. This means that I will not copy over every function of the our desktop KMail but it also does not meant that the possible usecases are constrained to this core set. Other workflows should be possible but they might not be as elegant or prominent in the UI. Thanks for your participation. Mike Nice approach to the usecase list! I've added some usecases and moved some around, accordeing to my opinion (see history for details). Björn, Kevin, what's your take? Please review the wiki page as well, thanks! ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
[Active] [Bug 320034] Slowness of the Plasma Active topbar UI after startup on Nexus 7
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=320034 Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org changed: What|Removed |Added Status|UNCONFIRMED |CONFIRMED CC||colo...@autistici.org Ever confirmed|0 |1 --- Comment #2 from Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org --- The reason for this is that all the elements in the Peak Launch area (the ones that are shown when you poll the Top Bar down) are only loaded the first time you pull it down, in order to decrease startup time. Each time I present PA to someone right after booting, though, I get the feeling that maybe this turned out to not have been such a good idea after all: This is often one of the first things people to, and since it feels really really slow, the first impression people get from using PA is Oh, it's slow!. So I'm starting to think that maybe these elements should be loaded at startup after all, because it's probably less noticeable if the startup takes a few seconds longer than if an interaction feels horribly slow. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4
On Monday 20 May 2013 14:16:55 Marco Martin wrote: Hi all, we have a new stable option for images creation. in the plasma-active-kickstart git repo, there is a new yaml for image creation. so, if you do mer-kickstarter -e . -c releases/plasma-active-4.yaml -o plasma-active-latest- ks/ it will generate kickstarts from kde:stable:* and fixed releases for nemo and mer. this will be the basis of pa4. also, new repositories are enabled in the image: * mer-updates: it will contain bugfix updates for the base system if neede (hopefully none) * kde:apps : it will contain 3rd party apps and packages based on kde. being enabled on pa4 new packages can land there post release and will be easy installable on pa4 systems hopefully there will be soon images based on this kickstart I'd suggest to start a collaborative intense testing phase as soon as the images are available. Everyone with a device should test hell out of it. A group of students has been trying out my tablet recently (they will be conducting usability tests with it) and still found quite a few problems, and I did not have the chance to systematically test recently. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4
On Monday 20 May 2013 14:31:48 Hillel Lubman wrote: I can do it on Nexus 7 (which has current devel image though it doesn't load the UI anymore after the most recent update %). Great! Any help is greatly appreciated! The problem is that Marco, who currently does most of the integration work, does not have a Nexus 7 so he cannot test on his device. The champion of PA on Nexus 7 is Ruediger Gad, so maybe he has time to look into the problems there. Is there any list of formal tests, or it's do whatever comes to mind? We do not have a list of formal tests (yet), so for now it's do whatever comes to mind. Some things I usually check because they often break are - Creating / editing / deleting Activities - Adding files to Activities (via Add Items and via SLC) and removing them again - Starting several applications and switching between them - Files: - Tagging files - Copying files from/to an external storage device - Deleting files - Using the metadata filters (image size or Artist/Album for music) - Browsing the Web - Sending the device to sleep and waking it up again - Browsing though images - Changing screen settings - Downloading Add Ons Others surely have more things to add to this list, but I hope it already helps. Cheers, Thomas ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4
On 21.05.2013 16:48, Marco Martin wrote: On Monday 20 May 2013 16:13:47 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: hopefully there will be soon images based on this kickstart I'd suggest to start a collaborative intense testing phase as soon as the images are available. Everyone with a device should test hell out of it. A group of students has been trying out my tablet recently (they will be conducting usability tests with it) and still found quite a few problems, and I did not have the chance to systematically test recently. and here's the link https://share.basyskom.com/plasma-active/deployment/wetab-exopc/tablet/mer/testing/basyskom-plasma-active-four-wetab-exopc-tablet-mer-release-rc.iso I'll start testing when I get my WeTab back on Friday. The students have already found quite a few problems while getting to know it, some of them quite ugly. I'll try to reproduce them with the stable image and report them if I can. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4
On 22.05.2013 18:26, Paul S wrote: On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 7:51 AM, Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org mailto:colo...@autistici.org wrote: It seems like you are confusing MeeGo and Mer. Mer is a community continuation of MeeGo. Our images do not use MeeGo, it's just Mer, with Plasma Active on top and the Nemo Mobile integration parts (e.g. the kernel) below. Yes I was, thanks for correcting my ignorance. No problem, just wanted to make clear we're talking about the same things. Complaining is the one thing that won't help you. I apologize if it sounds like just complaining. I was trying to provide useful feedback of an early image. Perhaps my words aren't as good as they should be. I hope no hard feelings. No hard feelings on my side, I didn't make Mer ;) I'd just like to initiate a shift in mindsets: From PA on Mer does not work correctly on my device!, which we hear from pretty much everyone who tries to use it on a device where nobody used it before, to I see that a lot of work still has to be put into making it work on this device. How do we get that work started? Of course the problem is: How do users distinguish bugs related to hardware integration from actual PA- or Mer-Bugs? This is a problem I have no solution for yet. One indicator might be that it's a fairly obvious and critical bug which has not yet been reported on bugs.kde.org. In this case, it's unlikely that it happens on the devices we use as well without having been reported yet. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
[Active] [Bug 320235] New: Adding an application selected in one Activity to another via SLC causes problems
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=320235 Bug ID: 320235 Summary: Adding an application selected in one Activity to another via SLC causes problems Classification: Unclassified Product: Active Version: Testing Platform: Other OS: Linux Status: UNCONFIRMED Severity: major Priority: NOR Component: Share Like Connect Assignee: notm...@gmail.com Reporter: colo...@autistici.org CC: active@kde.org When I select aqn App on an Acitivty and try to add it to another one via SLC, the following happens: - It sometimes disappears on the first Activity (which it shouldn't) - It appears on the other one as a bookmark rather than an Activity Reproducible: Always Steps to Reproduce: 1. Select an Application on an Activity Screen 2. Select Connect 3. Select a different activity Actual Results: (see above) Expected Results: It appears on the second Activity in Apps in addition to the first one. Found in the PA4 rc1 image. Probably related to bug 320234 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
[Active] [Bug 320236] New: Recommendations drawer is still visible
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=320236 Bug ID: 320236 Summary: Recommendations drawer is still visible Classification: Unclassified Product: Active Version: Testing Platform: Other OS: Linux Status: UNCONFIRMED Severity: major Priority: NOR Component: Contour recommendations manager Assignee: notm...@gmail.com Reporter: colo...@autistici.org CC: active@kde.org As far as I know, we decided to remove the recommendations drawer since it doesn't really do anything useful atm. anyway. However, it's still visible in the rc1 Reproducible: Always -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
[Active] [Bug 320237] New: Indexing seems completely broken in RC1
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=320237 Bug ID: 320237 Summary: Indexing seems completely broken in RC1 Classification: Unclassified Product: Active Version: Testing Platform: Other OS: Linux Status: UNCONFIRMED Severity: critical Priority: NOR Component: General Assignee: active@kde.org Reporter: colo...@autistici.org Indexing does not work correctly at all in RC1: - Newly copied/created files do not show up in Files or Add Items - Artist/Album info for Music files is not available - When I go to the Desktop Search settings and de- and reactivate indexing or tap Check for New Files in the Advanced Settings tab, the indexer claims to be indexing the files, but they do not show up - If I tap Clear Index and then Check for New Files, it claims to index files but afterwards, no files show up in Files anymore (not even the pre-installed ones) - Rebooting does not help Reproducible: Always -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
[Active] [Bug 318818] No files of other types found if album/artist filter in Music is still activated
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=318818 Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org changed: What|Removed |Added Status|UNCONFIRMED |CONFIRMED Ever confirmed|0 |1 --- Comment #1 from Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org --- The same effect happens when changing file types while a tag filter is still active (regardless of file type) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: repos and kickstarts for pa4
On Wednesday 22 May 2013 00:10:40 Michael Bohlender wrote: I guess we could really use a formal list for testing so I started one with the things that Thomas usually tests: community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Testing Thanks! I've added some test cases. I'm trying this as a live disk on my lenovo s10-3t and notice that the about screen says it's version 3 still, instead of version 4. good catch. I submitted a patch. Great! ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Testing PA4 release candidates
Hi everyone, now that we have the PA4 release candidates, we need to go into heavy testing / fixing mode. Currently, the RC has quite a few more or less serious bugs (one absolute blocker is among them: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=320237 ). This shows that testing is crucial. Thanks to Mike, we have an (probably still incomplete) list of test cases here: http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Testing Please, everyone who has a device that can run PA, go try those cases out with the RC and try as many other things as possible. At least the x86 image has to be free of all showstoppers and embarrassingly obvious flows for release. Let's all work together to get PA4 in shape soon! Thomas ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
[Active] [Bug 320238] New: Images are named undefined in Images
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=320238 Bug ID: 320238 Summary: Images are named undefined in Images Classification: Unclassified Product: Active Version: Testing Platform: Other OS: Linux Status: UNCONFIRMED Severity: normal Priority: NOR Component: Applications Assignee: active@kde.org Reporter: colo...@autistici.org When you make the chrome come up in Images (by tapping) the center of the navigation bar at the top reads undefined (11 out of 21). I don't know what's supposed to be there, nut undefined is definitely not what we want there. I don't even think having the numbers there is useful information when you navigate by the images themselves anyway. Reproducible: Always Steps to Reproduce: 1. Open Images 2. Tap Actual Results: Navigation bar reads undefined (11 out of 21) Expected Results: Either something useful or nothing -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
[Active] [Bug 320237] Indexing seems completely broken in RC1
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=320237 --- Comment #4 from Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org --- Here is the output of nepomukindexer (same on two files): nepomukindexer(1027)/nepomuk (strigi service): SimpleIndexError: _:a does not exist in the graph. In statement (_:ub, http://www.semanticdesktop.org/ontologies/2007/01/19/nie#url, _:a) nepomukindexer(1027)/nepomuk (strigi service): _:a does not exist in the graph. In statement (_:ub, http://www.semanticdesktop.org/ontologies/2007/01/19/nie#url, _:a) nepomukshow does not seem to be installed -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: [Kde-pim] Kontact Touch Mail - Usecases
On Saturday 25 May 2013 17:10:34 Heiko Tietze wrote: On Sunday, 2013-05-19, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: On Friday 17 May 2013 19:23:11 Michael Bohlender wrote: Björn, Kevin, what's your take? Please review the wiki page as well, thanks! Hi everyone, Bjoern asked me to do the review because he is very short in time. So here are my two cents: Thanks for pitching in! * You did collect requirements, not use cases. True. I think the level of user requirements presented in this list is okay for a project of this size, though. Defining actual use cases may be useful as well, but I feel that the requirements should do at least for now. * Software shouldn't contain exotic function in terms of unnecessary stuff. According Kano (and the respective method - Wikipedia) there are basic functions, performance features, excitement stuff, and features that lead to rejection. Prioritization includes those features and the amount of work. But all core functions (aka basic features) should be available. A well, we have different goals here: The list was originally written not in order to prioritize implementation, but to decide how prominently a feature should be placed in the UI. That's why the categories are related to frequency of use, not to importance. However, the category labels where probably misleading. I've updated the page with new suggested frequency categories. This also explains for example why spell checking is in the core category in our list but you suggest putting it in the buzz features category (and I agree to that): Users can live without it, but if it's there, it should be placed prominently in the New mail screen because it's used regularly when writing a mail. * I'd recommend to reorganize the bullets. My proposal can be found at top of http://community.kde.org/index.php?title=Plasma/Active/mail (original is below hr) I believe that in the end, we need both: A list of requirements including priorities to decide what to implement when, and a list of user actions with estimated frequencies of use to decide what to place prominently. So I'd suggest keeping both lists, each for its own purpose, but harmonizing them (e.g. a feature we deem frequent is most likely also a basic requirement). * I added some requirements from kmail but don't know how interessting they are because of its technological relation (e.g. authentification) - marked with ? I've written some comments on them. * I would propose to change some priorities. Have a look for C - A, for instance. I've changed those where I agree and commented where I don't. Cheers, Heiko. Cheers, Thomas ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
[Active] [Bug 320237] Indexing seems completely broken in RC1
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=320237 --- Comment #6 from Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org --- Reinstalling the same image at least did not fix the issue for me. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: [Kde-pim] Kontact Touch Mail - Usecases
On Saturday 25 May 2013 23:46:08 Heiko Tietze wrote: Am Samstag, 25. Mai 2013, 18:17:45 schrieb Thomas Pfeiffer: The list was originally written not in order to prioritize implementation... Well, that's a horse of a different color :-). Yes. We should have clarified that before you reviewed it... On the other hand, this misunderstanding brought us your list of prioritized requirements, so it's a good thing in the end :) I've written some comments on them. | |list=mailing list. Isn't it rather a feature of the addressbook, if at all? Emails can be sent to a list of receivers but this list gets separated first. And when I write to active@kde.org for instance then I do not write to all single reciepients. Or am I wrong? One example usage scenario is this: Someone sends a mail to a mailing list (like active@kde.org) as well as to you personally (and maybe other people as well). Now if you reply directly, you only reply to the author. You could reply to all, but you might want to keep the discussion only on the list. Another scenario is a case are mailing lists which do not automatically set the mailing list as reply-to address when they send out mails. If you just hit reply on a mail from such lists, you reply only to the author, not the list. For these scenarios, e.g. KMail or Thunderbird have a specific Reply to Mailing-List option, which only sends to the mailing list from which you received the mail (in addition to receiving it personally). This is surely not a must-have, but I've been using it quite a few times. |User Experience I want to add some kind of soft feature. Mobile devices are used more to pleasure than desktop computers. Therefore joy of use becomes relevant. Yes, no objection to that. |(?) Design fancy dialogs Thomas: If by that you mean Make the UI look different to the rest of the system then I'm against it Nope, unless the rest of the UI will be designed as ugly as possible :-). It should have a nice appearence. (But UI has to be as well normal as stated once before) Ah, okay. It's just that in me, fancy triggers the A designer has done something which looks cool, but offers zero consistency with the rest of the systemalarm. There surely are cases where deviating from the platform standards makes sense (like games or some multimedia apps), but I don't think a mail client is one of them. Maybe we should just replace fancy with Aesthetically pleasing? |User Actions Common +Mark as spam (sadly common) Depending on the spam filtering system of your email provider, this may indeed be a common feature. This should only appear if spam filtering has been activated, though. I would not use client-side filtering on my Web.de account, for example, because the provider takes care of that for me and if I marked a mail as spam locally, that information would not reach Web.de. I'll add it. Uncommon/Rare +Format email text (html) +Show details, e.g. size of email(s) Yes. I'll add those. +Userdefined tags, favorite, note, task etc. (or is it SLC?) btw: I don't know what SLC mean. Perhaps it should get written out somewhere if I'm not the only one. Yes this should be done via SLC. SLC stands for Share/Like/Connect and is a system-wide system for resource-specific actions. See http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Development/ActiveHIG/SLC for details. Thanks again, Thomas ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
[Active] [Bug 320237] Indexing seems completely broken in RC1
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=320237 --- Comment #7 from Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org --- This bug does not happen with the latest Devel image, so it seems to be specific to the rc1 image. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Wiki cleanup: tasks
On 20.08.2013 14:29, Sebastian Kügler wrote: On Friday, August 16, 2013 18:14:05 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: On Friday 16 August 2013 17:51:05 Michael Bohlender wrote: And the cleanup begins: http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Tasks The Page lists tasks, why they are important and so on. This was last edited a year ago. Looks like we are not using it anymore. Can this Page be deleted? I wouldn't delete it. It should be used as a resource when planning PA5 (see what of these things is done and what is still to do). I'd move it to development, though. We can ditch all the tasks in there, a random collection of tasks that isn't maintained is not useful, and only adds to the amount of useless information, making the actual useful info harder to find. I'd be for deleting it, or at least emptying it. I'll maintain it, then. I'll go through the tasks, remove all those that are either finished or do not apply anymore and update the ones that are still relevant, if needed. And then I'll move it to Development. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: wiki cleanup: release notes
On Tuesday 20 August 2013 19:04:03 Michael Bohlender wrote: http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/ReleaseNotes/2.0 there are no release notes for PA 3 do we want/ need release notes for PA 4 or should just delete the link from http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Acti ve/ReleaseNotes/2.0 ? We can definitely delete the 2.0 release notes. If the promo team would like to collect input for the PA4 release notes on the wiki, we can put a page for that here. If not, we don't need it. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: wiki cleanup: Development
On Sunday 18 August 2013 23:06:43 Bogdan Cristea wrote: Hi I am unable to modify PA wiki with my kde account. You have an Identity account and yet you cannot edit community.kde.org? That sounds weird. Have you clicked OpenID / Identity login and then Identity? ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Zypper up on stable PA4 image killed Maliit
On Thursday 29 August 2013 22:53:42 you wrote: n Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 9:38 PM, Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.orgwrote: Hi, last night I did another zypper up on my stable image to get the Add Ons fix. I got quite a few packages upgraded or installed: Among others, all the maliit packages were replaced by versions with a -qt4 suffix or upgraded and, several qt5 packages were installed. Since the next reboot, the virtual keyboard won't show up anymore. What happened? This has to be fixed before release so that zypper up won't leave people without a keyboard. I had to rename those packages since nemo now ships with packages with the exact same name but built for qt5 and we have to avoid those (apparently on some sdk installations it produced good images, on others got confused and couldn't produce an image). generated images do work, i just tried to do a new one, seems fine. it's weird that update doesn't work, probably pulled the qt5 version together the qt4 one. but being a package called maliit-framework based on qt5 in nemo i don't think we can't do anything about it. images done after the name change are correct and are going to correctly update. installations older than thast, don't think can be fixed (if somebody with more packaging-fu has an idea, please do tell ;) I don't mind if my RC won't upgrade to the final image correctly, I can just reinstall. What we should think about is if we think we need to provide a working upgrade path from PA3 to PA4 or if we think that it's okay for those few who have installed PA3 on their device to do a reinstall with PA4. What is our approach here? Cheers, Thomas ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Zypper up on stable PA4 image killed Maliit
On Thursday 29 August 2013 23:39:07 Marco Martin wrote: On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.orgwrote: think we can't do anything about it. images done after the name change are correct and are going to correctly update. installations older than thast, don't think can be fixed (if somebody with more packaging-fu has an idea, please do tell ;) I don't mind if my RC won't upgrade to the final image correctly, I can just reinstall. What we should think about is if we think we need to provide a working upgrade path from PA3 to PA4 or if we think that it's okay for those few who have installed PA3 on their device to do a reinstall with PA4. What is our approach here? iirc pa3 still used repos on meego obs, so even the repo urls have changed True. So we probably should go with Carl's suggestion to explicitly tell people that migration from PA3 isn't possible and if they've used PA3, they should reinstall. Is it possible to migrate all user data? Nepomuk data should be able to be migrated using Nepomuk backup/restore, right? What about Activities and connected resources? ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Cursor is not hidden in newest PA4 image
On Saturday 31 August 2013 14:59:18 Marco Martin wrote: On Saturday 31 August 2013, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: I just installed the most recent PA4 image (plasma-active-i586- stable-2013-08-29.iso). When I bootet, I noticed that the cursor is visible. The option Visible cursor in settings is set to off, switching it on and off again does not have any effect. Cheers, Thomas can't reproduce on a new installation on an exopc, he mouse is invisible. the cursor is the black blocky one or the white antialiased one? it's probably an installation not gone well or interrupted before the last blocks were copied It's the black blocky one. Will try a reinstall. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Cursor is not hidden in newest PA4 image
On Saturday 31 August 2013 14:59:18 Marco Martin wrote: On Saturday 31 August 2013, Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: I just installed the most recent PA4 image (plasma-active-i586- stable-2013-08-29.iso). When I bootet, I noticed that the cursor is visible. The option Visible cursor in settings is set to off, switching it on and off again does not have any effect. Cheers, Thomas can't reproduce on a new installation on an exopc, he mouse is invisible. the cursor is the black blocky one or the white antialiased one? it's probably an installation not gone well or interrupted before the last blocks were copied You're right, seems to have been an installation problem. I reinstalled from the same image and now it works. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
ownCloud in PA4
On 03.09.2013 12:39, Sebastian Kügler wrote: On Sunday, September 01, 2013 20:40:42 Wolfgang Romey wrote: Actually we had planned official support for ownCloud sync for PA4, but time and manpower constraints didn't allow us to do it in time. It's still on our to do list, though. What has to be done to support ownCloud sync in PA4? It has to be put into the announcement. The client is ready and works. :) It does? Dude why didn't you tell us? :) I thought it was still in a basically works, but there is still work to do kind of state. Is it already in the repos? ownCloud for PA is very important, we must not miss this is in the announcement! ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: PA4 stable issues
On 03.09.2013 16:35, Bogdan Cristea wrote: Hi Eventually I have been able to install PA4 stable image (plasma-active-i586-stable-2013-08-29.iso), the development image installs but does not boot. It seems to me that there are different kernel command line arguments. However, while the general look is clean and stable, I have find the following issues: - Active Okular: there is still an issue when changing pages (different page width) Yes, that's a rather ugly bug, but wasn't deemed a release blocker. I hope somebody will find a fix for it during the next dev cycle. - Add-Ons: when one selects an item from the right-most list, the view should automatically scroll to the left in order to show the right-most panel (which allows to download and view the book) Indeed it should. I hadn't noticed that bug. Could you file a bug report, please? Probably not a release blocker either, though, since you can scroll manually. - owncloud client can be installed, but I was unable to start the client. Not sure how this client works, but I was expecting to see an icon on the main panel that allows to display a GUI. Others reported that they could use the client. Don't know what went wrong on your system... I am also wondering what is the status of the Application Store for PA ? Are there plans to provide something similar to KDEs Install Widgets interface from kdeapps.org (and have a PA-dedicated section there) ? According to Marco, the current Add Ons store should theoretically be able to handle applications. That category just has not been introduced yet. I feel a bit uneasy that we haven't had the chance to test whether it really works before release, but even if it doesn't we can still push an update to the stable repos once apps are available server-side. Cheers, Thomas ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: ownCloud in PA4
On Wednesday 04 September 2013 17:17:53 Bogdan Cristea wrote: I have installed all owncloud stuff and the client is available only as KDE settings module. Should this module be displayed on Apps section ? It is visible only when searching for it. Here is a screenshot when I start owncloud module. It makes sense that it is a Settings module: You configure the ownCloud synchronization and from then on, everything happens automagically, nothing more to do. A settings module is a perfect place for that. It's unfortunate that it shows up when you search in the Launcher and then breaks if you start it that way, but this is not how users are supposed to start it anyway, so it's not that much of a problem. We have to tell users how to install it and where they can find the configuration GUI, though, so thank you Carl for putting it into the Wiki and announcement. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Last things for release
On 05.09.2013 06:14, Carl Symons wrote: There is a bit of confusing information about the basysKom download center. The latest iso there is from September 1, and some of the links are broke. Would be good to have some sort of checksum on plasma-active-4-i586.iso as the instructions suggest using such. If a checksum is created, this information needs to be added to the wikipage along with the download location. Ah yes, a checksum would be important to have. People should be able to verify that their download went correctly, since even a slight incorrectness in an image can cause problems later on which cannot be traced back to an incorrect download. An sha1 checksum should do fine. * Are all articles/all other things ready to go? The Dot story is ready... http://dot.kde.org/2013/09/05/plasma-active-4-ready-when-you-are Should be reviewed for accuracy of information and any writing/grammar/spelling screwups I'll write my feedback in a new thread to avoid bloating this one. I started writing Tips on the wiki. After a short while, I realized that there is way too much to do a decent job on a beginning manual. Besides the people who have installed PA have done pretty well with no manual and an occasional helping hand. So it's pretty sparse. Anyone is welcome to add, change and so forth. Oh actually there already is a Beginner's FAQ with quite some useful information here: http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Info/FAQ Could you please add your stuff to that page? We could then link to it. In earlier releases we had a bookmark to the FAQ in the Welcome Activity, but that seems to have got lost at some point, so we need to link to it from the pages people are most likely to visit when they install PA. We have quite a few features which nobody will ever have any chance of finding by themselves (e.g. how to create or delete a tag, how to remove a file from an Activity, ...), not even tech-savvy people. For those things, we absolutely need the FAQ. I think that we're intending this release to be used by people who aren't the beginning manual kind of folks. Not a manual (actually nobody but my dad want to read a manual), but short answers to the most frequent questions are a must. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Feedback to the Dot story
Hi Carl, thank you for writing the article! Here are a few comments: Plasma Active is a user interface from the KDE community intended for tablets, smartphones and touch computing devices such as settop boxes, smart TVs, home automation and in-vehicle infotainment. Even though this is not factually wrong, I still find it misleading: Our intention for the future is for PA to be used on all these device classes. However, PA4 is intended for tablets only. If we write it like this, people may think PA4 is already intended for everything, will install it on their e.g. settop box or smart TV and complain that it works like shit on there (because their TV does not have a touchscreen). See also my recent blog post on the topic: http://sessellift.wordpress.com/2013/08/27/you-can-use-it-that-way-but-dont-expect-it-to-work-well/ My suggestion: Plasma Active is a user interface from the KDE community intended for tablets. It can be customized to work on smartphones, settop boxes, smart TVs, and touch computing devices such as home automation and in-vehicle infotainment. That way we don't say It cannot work on those devices, but nobody can blame us if it doesn't work well as it is, because they'd have to customize it (as in pretty much redesigning the UI, but technically it's not a problem) first. Notice also that I intentionally did not include smart TVs and settop boxes in touch computing devices, because they are not, and probably will never be. Who wants to stand up form the couch and walk over to the TV to use touch controls on it? These things are controlled via some kind of remote interface (even controls via Kinect and such are not touch). This release is intended to complete the evolution of Plasma Active to a polished product from its proof of concept first release. I would not call PA4 a Polished product yet. It's still for early adopters only, ordinary consumers would still hate us for PA4. The rest of the paragraph is spot-on. client-side touch-optimized email application Kontact Touch has been part of PA for a long time and nothing has changed about it since then. So it's definitely not new in PA4. Michael Bohlender currently develops a new KMail Active UI, but that's not there yet. Other than that, it's a great article! Cheers, Thomas ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: What Plasma Active 4 offers
On 05.09.2013 17:27, Sebastian Kügler wrote: On Thursday, September 05, 2013 17:07:46 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: On Thursday, September 5, 2013 16:37:29 Marco Martin wrote: so reading document formats, local storage, tagging files, advantages of a client side pim app, playing media files... groupware (email / calendaring), viewing office documents, reading eBooks and PDFs are all very important things to certain key groups. +1 for listing those items as well as the file management and media items Marco noted ... and synching the resulting or consumed data things across devices of different nature. :) Not just synching: Synching _without_ using a cloud that sits in the USA, with built-in NSA backdoor. That's a huge advantage over all major competitors. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Feedback to the Dot story
On 05.09.2013 17:05, Aaron J. Seigo wrote: It's not my call, but it isn't yours, either. Yes, Thomas, it is my call in this case. We all provide input, even across boundaries of expertise, but this is not a democracy. It isn’t a dictatorship, either. It is a participation based meritocracy within which we have different roles and responsibilities within the over all effort. This particular matter is not your responsibility. Nobody micromanages your usability testing, guideline creation or your work on bugs.kde.org for PA. People provide input, but you have a very free hand in these things. Please show others the same consideration. I'd say it's Carl's call then, isn't it? He asked for input. I gave my input (stating why I would not call it polished), you and others provides yours, and Carl stated why he considers polished to be the right word and I assume he will keep it in, which is fine with me because you're right, Carl is the marketing person, it's his responsibility and he's good at it. What I’m trying to get across here is that this discussion is bordering on the absurd, which is why I’d really, really appreciate on both a teammate and a personal level if you could somehow find a way to just edit this one aspect of your personal opinion related to release communication. It may be a bit difficult for me at times to clearly distinguish between personal opinion and facts (like the fact that Smart TVs and set-top boxes are not touch devices), but I'll try. To me it's similar with bugs: I may have annoyed you and Marco and possible others as well when I insisted on several bugs being fixed before release. this is not the same thing in the least, and i know that if you think about it for a moment or two that you’ll know that too. With regards to release communication, it isn't that's true. I meant more of a general Reminding people that there are still a lot of quirks to iron out, but since we're talking about a dot article here, it is indeed something different. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Installing PA (mer) on Nexus 7
On 05.09.2013 18:58, Matthias Raives wrote: I dont recall anyone saying this, but thanks for confirming my suspicions. Do you guys have an estimate on when PA will be ready for the 2013 nexus 7? Answer: When someone made the adaptation. This is a community effort: Adaptations happen if someone makes them happen. If you have the skill to do it yourself or the money/power/charms to make someone else do it, it can happen pretty fast. If not and nobody else has, than it will never happen. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Plasmoid installation in PA
On Saturday 07 September 2013 21:44:56 Bogdan Cristea wrote: Hi I had a look at new plasmoids installed on PA (Picture Frame). No modifications are needed to be installed in PA, but when a plasmoid is added to an activity it seems a little strange that the plasmoid position and size are somehow limited to some discrete values, i.e. the plasmoid cannot be positioned anywhere on the screen and its size cannot vary to any value. That's on purpose: The Activity Screen uses a layout grid, and everything automatically aligns to that grid. That limits the placement and sizing freedom a bit, but in combination with the resource boxes and the imprecision of touchscreen interaction, Activity screens would turn into a real visual mess pretty fast if there was not grid. Btw: I've heard that Plasma 2 uses a grid layout for all workspaces (not sure if that's still true, though). One more question. Where could I add the new plasmoids I find to work on PA (e.g. picture frame) ? There is no offical way yet, but as soon as it's completely rolled out, Plasmoids will be made available through Add Ons. See also Aaron's Google Plus post sharing the release announcement (https://plus.google.com/10740696571114069/posts/ffJp9rpTMZe): The real story, however, is going to be in the months after this release as we roll out the content store management app for people who would like to participate by offering original content (apps, artwork, books, etc, etc.), an app developer support program and focus on hardware adaptations. Cheers, Thomas ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
[Active] [Bug 324768] Youtube does not work
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=324768 Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org changed: What|Removed |Added CC||colo...@autistici.org --- Comment #1 from Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org --- That's probably a codec issue. Afaik Mer ships only Theora and no Flash, so I suppose we're out of luck there... -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Say hello and last try to wake somebody up
On Thursday 12 September 2013 21:12:58 Arnd Diestelhorst wrote: Hello, my name is Arnd Diestelhorst, living in Munich, Germany. I am a happy long term user of KDE and also owner of a WeTab. So it would be very nice for me to have Plasma Active on the WeTab. I've been long waiting for this release and now want to try it out. Unfortunately I can only try what's on the ISO since the registration process for the bodega server simply does not work. It gets stuck at the step, where I have to confirm my email address by an http link to addons.makeplaylive.com on port 3443. I have opened a bug report [Bug 324754] with a wireshark log showing, that this server doesn't accept http requests on that port. It immediately closes the connection. Usually when someone releases new software, he is very keen to attract new users. Therefore I have marked this bug report as critical, but nothing happens for days. I am not part of the bodega team, but I assume that there was no reaction to your bug report because the bodega team is currently hard at work to get the system ready for people to put content into the store, because right now all that's in there are Project Gutenberg books and KDE wallpapers. Now I just found the reason: The email says To start using your Make·Play·Live account please confirm your email address by clicking on the following link: http://addons.makeplaylive.com:3443/. Change this to https and it works! Great, that should indeed be easy to fix! ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Say hello and last try to wake somebody up
On Thursday 12 September 2013 22:14:48 Arnd Diestelhorst wrote: , because right now all that's in there are Project Gutenberg books and KDE wallpapers. I just found that out. My expectation was, to find additional software there, because I didn't see any other obvious way. Add Ons will be the central source for software as soon as it's ready, which will be soon. So, how can one install other software? You can use zypper (zypper se to search, zypper in to install). ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: immediate communication app for Plasma Active
On Saturday 21 September 2013 08:27:42 Carl Symons wrote: This morning, I read http://snarkmarket.com/2009/3115 ...instead of talking to our computers, we’re typing on our phones. For good reasons, Plasma Active is not a smartphone. Yet given the mobile nature of the devices that will use it, there should be some way of making immediate connections with other people. I don't know what is now available or what people have planned. But something like PA-Skype or voice-controlled IRC would be nifty. Right now we have pretty much nothing, but an SoK student is working on KDE Telepathy Active, which will support voice- and video-chat in the end as well (not sure if it will already be available in the first release, but Telepathy offers the necessary technology). So something is on the way! ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Bodega server availability for creating assets
On Saturday 19 October 2013 15:15:57 Marco Martin wrote: On Saturday 19 October 2013, Wolfgang Romey wrote: Yep; you can grab, for instance, any image and upload it as a wallpaper. I tried to upload a wallpaper, which mostly worked. But when I send the request for publishing, i get: Error in sending your request. The asset needs at least one icon. I do not see a way to add an icon. There is only the possibility to add a screenshot. aah, right, wallpaper assets don't have fields to upload icons. now, we could a) modify the client to allow upload icons (looks rather silly tough the concept of icon of a wallpaper) b) modify the server in such when icons are generated, if none present, use the screenshot and resize it icon-sized I'd vote for b), precisely because of the argument you mentioned against a). For the system it might be called icon, but for the user it's just a thumbnail. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Experiences during Bodega partner experience walkthrough
Hi everyone, I just walked through the experience of becoming a Bodega Partner/Participant. Here is what I noticed (good or bad, in chronological order) until the point where I have to be accepted as a Publisher: - I wasn't sure if I could use my make.play.live user account as participant account as well, so I just went ahead and created a participant account with the same data as my user account. This resulted in the following message: A new Make·Play·Live account has been created for you! And below in red AccountExists. So which one is it? Has it been created or does it already exist? - The login page asks for a user name, but I don't have one, so I used the email address associated with my account and that worked. Seems like the input hint on the field is just incorrect. - The partner list has three unlabeled action icons on the right which do not have a tooltip (title tag) - The Terms of Service page: - When hovering anywhere over the page, the cursor turns into the link cursor but when I click, nothing happens - the second bullet in the Definitions list is empty - You agree to not upload content, create store, should be Stores or a Store - I liked the That wasn't too bad, was it?. It gives the dull task of reading ToS a little more humane - The Warehouse commits to exclusively use software distributed under a Free software license as defined by the Debian Free Software Guidelines in the operation of the Warehouse. This includes the content server software and the applications the Warehouse hosts or distributes which are used to access the content system. Even though it clearly only relates to the software used to manage and access stuff, when I read it less carefully the first time, it looked to me like the Warehouse would only _host_ Free software as well. Therefore even though legally everything is fine, it might be a good idea to add that proprietary software may be hosted in the Warehouse as assets in order not to scare away people who wish to put proprietary software into their stores. On the other hand, maybe scaring away proprietary software people is a good thing? ;) - creating stores - creating Stores - The ToS are amazingly short for something involving hosting and even selling content! I wonder why other stores have ToS several times as long as this just for accessing content or providing user-generated content without any payment involved. Unless it turns out at some point that you missed some crucial legalese which bites you in the ass later on, these ToS should be the role model for ToS for any digital store! This is of course only friendly feedback since I am not in any way responsible for Bodega, so do with it as you please ;) More will come as soon as I am accepted as Publisher. Cheers, Thomas ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Experiences during Bodega partner experience walkthrough
On Monday 21 October 2013 17:40:05 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: Single Asset form: - What if I use an open source licence not contained in the license list? Plus, for works like books or music, I don't think proprietary is commonly used. Maybe use Proprietary / All rights reserved as a more generic term? agreed; fixed. It still says Proprietary only, for any type. - A Drag Drop feature for single files would be nice here as well, that old Browse dialog feels a bit old-fashioned once you see how well DD works in Mass create oh no, we’ve spoiled you! but, yes, i agree. i’ve added a bug report for it. - Clicking Create without selecting a type does nothing except marking the field with a very thin red frame which one might miss. There should be a message in the vein of Please fill in all required fields in addition to the marking agreed. br created. - After selecting type image and uploading a PNG, I get the Unrecognized assetType error as well. should be fixed. The Unrecognized assetType error is gone, but now I get Error in sending your request. Missing required tag: undefined What does that mean? - The type image appears twice in the list, but I get the error with both types Yes, resolved that duplication as well ... Yup, it's gone. Good to know we agree on all the points I mentioned :) ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Experiences during Bodega partner experience walkthrough
On Tuesday 22 October 2013 13:47:27 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: When sending a request for publishing for an image, there is still the message, that an icon is missing. There is only the possibility to upload a sreenshot, which i did, but which is not accepted as an icon. Turning screenshots into icons is not implemented; you need to provide an icon. Auto-creating icons from thumbnails was what Marco suggested in a previous thread, wasn't it (see below)? b) modify the server in such when icons are generated, if none present, use the screenshot and resize it icon-sized Is it still the plan to implement that in the future? For me, this is the way to go, because what works better as an icon for an image than a small version of it? If that will be implemented in the future, I think it can be worked around be users creating an icon from a scaled-down version of the image themselves. It would just be more convenient if the server did it automagically. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Experiences during Bodega partner experience walkthrough
On Tuesday 22 October 2013 21:55:53 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: On Tuesday, October 22, 2013 16:38:17 Thomas Pfeiffer wrote: On Tuesday 22 October 2013 13:47:27 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: When sending a request for publishing for an image, there is still the message, that an icon is missing. There is only the possibility to upload a sreenshot, which i did, but which is not accepted as an icon. Turning screenshots into icons is not implemented; you need to provide an icon. Auto-creating icons from thumbnails was what Marco suggested in a previous thread, wasn't it (see below)? yes; but it only got implemented tonight (thanks to marco) Lightning-fast Marco, as always :) b) modify the server in such when icons are generated, if none present, use the screenshot and resize it icon-sized Is it still the plan to implement that in the future? For me, this is the way to go, because what works better as an icon for an image than a small version of it? yep. and for things like books we even know which screenshot to use (the front cover). many will still want to create their own custom icons, though, as generally the result will usually be better. Sure. People should have the chance to provide their own icon, with auto- generated ones as fallback. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
[bodega] [Bug 326615] Actions of icons are unclear in list. Add mouse-hover tip
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=326615 Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org changed: What|Removed |Added Status|UNCONFIRMED |CONFIRMED Ever confirmed|0 |1 --- Comment #1 from Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org --- I've reported the problem informally as well. According to Aaron this is a problem with Sencha, the UI framework used. Let's hope it can be fixed. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
[Active] [Bug 326639] Installing ownCloud client through Add Ons does not work
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=326639 --- Comment #2 from Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org --- The error message is gone, but now I get an undefined progress bar which just keeps moving left and right but nothing else happens -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
[Active] [Bug 326639] Installing ownCloud client through Add Ons does not work
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=326639 Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org changed: What|Removed |Added Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED Resolution|--- |FIXED --- Comment #4 from Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org --- Yes, that did the trick! It installed correctly! -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Categories
On Sunday 27 October 2013 14:06:34 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: The best answer to this is to have a generic asset handler that simply downloads files into ~/Downloads, or whatever the most appropriate folder is depending on the mimetype. In Plasma Active, all things should go straight to ~/ since we don't do folder hierarchy ;) If we start using a folder hierarchy for downloaded stuff, it becomes inconsistent with Files' behavior of just putting everything in ~/ ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Categories
On Wednesday 30 October 2013 19:52:53 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: And what is the advantage of this? a) there is no disadvantage b) if you switch from Active to Desktop, it matters When switching between Active and Desktop, our whole let's hide the folder hierarchy idea breaks down anyway: People want to organize their files in folders on the Desktop and they might not even tag them, so they won't want files to just throw everything you e.g. copy from a USB stick into ~/ and they want to find files via the folder hierarchy in Active as well. We'll have to re-think the whole concept for Plasma2, since it only worked as long as PA is the only thing you used on a given device. Probably we'll have to link tags and folders somehow (like sorting files into folders automatically based on their tags, and assigning tags automatically based on parent folder, for example) c) it helps prevent Add Ons from clobbering data you put on disk just because you happened to name something “Alice In Wonderland.epub” and then went to download the book (in the master branch, Add Ons will refuse to overwrite it and give you an error message) How will Files distinguish the two files, unless at least one of them has a tag or files will distinguish them based on some other meta data? However, if the same type of file is sometimes obtained via Add Ons and sometimes copied onto the device using Files, they end up in different folders, and the only way for users to move them to the same folder is by using Konsole or installing Dolphin. if the user doesn’t see this, what does it matter? You have a point there ;) ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Files-Folders-owncloud-PA5
On Wednesday 30 October 2013 21:30:24 Sebastian Kügler wrote: On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 20:29:48 Kevin Krammer wrote: On Tuesday, 2013-10-29, 23:47:43, Sebastian Kügler wrote: That struck me as well. I've tried to fix it some time ago, but it really is not that easy technically. The synching library and owncloud itself is folder- based, changing that would need very intrusive changes to the system. I'm not in a position to do that. Couldn't it work with something like: - creating a temp dir - symlinking or hardlinking the respective files into it - sync - delete links - copy remaining files (new in sync) - remove empty temp dir Possibly, but would I feel really dirty about doing it? Certainly yes. The nice thing about the sync process is that it's event-driven, you add a file in one of the synched locations, sync starts shortly after that. No polling for the local filesystem. Also, the other way round isn't addressed by it. If you (or anyone else) want to give it a try, be my guest... :) As mentioned in my reply to Aaron in the Categories thread: We need to find a solution to make the folder and tag worlds compatible anyway, in order to be ready for the future when users seamlessly switch between the different Plasma shells. This won't be easy, but we need something, because people won't give up folder hierarchies in the Desktop world anyway. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Files - Follders and Tags
On Thursday 31 October 2013 21:10:12 Wolfgang Romey wrote: I think folder and tagging are far from ready in KDE. I have a lot of images i tag intensely in digikam. When i sync them to my weTab via owncloud, i have tag them anew. That is not acceptable. As long as tags are not tied to a file, tagging is not ready. Tying tags to files would be difficult (if not impossible at least for some file types), but we definitely need better Nepomuk synchronization in order for tags to really take off in a multi-device(+cloud) world. When I copy files to my weTab, i should be aksed, if I want to tag them. If yes, my tags should be offered and I should be able to create new one. The same should happen, when i load down content from bodega. Yes, that was the original idea we had for the file copying process, but that somehow got lost in the development process (probably due to limited development resources, a.k.a Marco didn't have enough time left to do it). It's definitely something that should be implemented in Files: Copying and tagging should happen in one go. One tag should allways be the folder in which the file rests, so i can see which files are in a folder and can tag them. When i tag them with another folder, the old tag folder would removed Yes, that's kind of what I imagined. As long as tagging is far from ready, PA should offer fallback lines. One fallback for me is dolhin, allthough it is not touch optimized. Wolfgang Personally, I'm not a big fan of fallbacks (since they make it less likely that the underlying problem will be fixed), I'd rather push for tags to get to a point where they can become the main way to organize your resources but still coexist peacefully with a (hidden) folder hierarchy. As long as tags are (seen as) inferior to organizing files in a folder hierarchy, they just won't see widespread adoption, which to me is a lost opportunity. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Plasma Active - Ultrabook touchscreen
On Thursday 09 October 2014 15:51:19 Caio Ferreira wrote: Hello gents, I just bought a Lenovo Ideapad Flex 14 Touch-80C4000EBR, which came with windows 8.1. I'm a linux user since 2002, currently using openSUSE 13.2 (beta) but I was relly exited to see Plasma Active running in this touchscreen ultrabook. I've seen a lot of things about plasma active running in some tablets, but nothing about touchscreen notebook. I'm just sending this message because I can see a big market on touchscreen notebooks as no other linux DE works properly with touchscreen. Why not to create a distro with plasma active? (suse studio is a great tool for this purpose) (yes, there is a old one: https://susestudio.com/a/abQj83/plasma-active#discussion) Best regards, Caio Ferreira Hi Caio, (btw, why are you so sure there are no ladies in the Plasma Active team? ;) ) You are right, convertible laptop/tablets such as the Ideapad Flex are indeed a prime target for Plasma - though not for Plasma Active alone, but for the combination of Plasma Desktop in the laptop mode and Plasma Active in the tablet mode. Plasma Active was explicitly designed for pure touchscreen use, so it's what should be used in tablet mode when the keyboard and touchpad are hidden. Being able to seamlessly switch between the different shells when the device mode is changed has always been the goal of Plasma. However, in the Plasma 4 times, this didn't work smoothly yet. This will change with Plasma 5, though. The thing is that the port of Plasma Active to Plasma 5 is not finished yet. As soon as it's done, it should work in any distribution that ships Plasma, so it makes most sense to pick it up at that point. Another reason why we don't see widespread adoption of Plasma Active in regular Linux distributions yet might be that it was developed based on the mobile-focused Mer platform and packaging it in other distributions turned out not to be trivial. This will change with the Plasma 5 version, too, since at that point Plasma Active is just a regular shell package like Plasma Desktop. So, tl;dr : If you want the optimal experience with Plasma on your convertible, either wait for the port to Plasma 5 or help make it happen faster by contributing code / money / whatever to its development ;) Best, Thomas ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
[Active] [Bug 340645] facebook contact/google contact_aliases
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340645 Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org changed: What|Removed |Added CC||colo...@autistici.org Resolution|--- |WAITINGFORINFO Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEEDSINFO --- Comment #1 from Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org --- Could you please elaborate more? Full sentences in a bug description are more helpful for us than just some context-less words. And are you sure this concerns Plasma Active? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
[Active] [Bug 318231] Some icons are not shown, only text
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=318231 --- Comment #3 from Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org --- (In reply to Marc Pawlowsky from comment #2) I have seen this using Fedora 21 and 2.15.1 Versio 2.15.1 of exactly which package? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: How to Activate Plasma Active on Hybrid
On Monday 25 May 2015 13:50:53 Ahmad Ishtiaque wrote: Dear Support Team, I have a hybrid HP Ultrabook (one with a detachable keyboard). Recently I have installed Netrunner 16 which comes with KDE 5 as its primary DE. So I was wondering how to toggle between KDE Desktop mode and Active mode. Could you please help? Regards Hi Ahmad, sorry for letting you wait so long for a reply. And also sorry for not being able to give you good news: Plasma Active has not been ported to Plasma 5 yet, so you'll have to wait until that has happened. When there is a Plasma 5 Active (or whatever we'll call it), it is planned ot be easily switchable (e.g. as soon as you detach the keyboard). Best, Thomas ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
Re: Closing this list
On Thursday 06 August 2015 14:05:20 Sebastian Kügler wrote: Hi, As the Plasma Mobile project supercedes Plasma Active, I'd like to close this list to avoid fragmentation. At the same time, I'd like to invite those that lurk here, and that haven't seen activity in a while to join the general Plasma mailinglist, and have an eye on the newly created Plasma Mobile forums at https://forum.kde.org/viewforum.php?f=293 See you on the flipside! Hi sebas, since we still occasionally receive emails here with questions about Plasma Active, please make sure that any of our websites that currently point to this list (which I guess is plasma-active.org plus some Wiki pages) are changed appropriately. Thanks,. Thomas ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
[Active] [Bug 350333] Plasma5 crashes when returning from hibernate (blank-screen)
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=350333 Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org changed: What|Removed |Added CC||colo...@autistici.org --- Comment #2 from Thomas Pfeiffer colo...@autistici.org --- Active is only for Plasma Active, the tablet version of Plasma. Your bug should go into the product plasmashell. Also please provide the version of the plasma-desktop package. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Active mailing list Active@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/active
