[AFMUG] heads-up: ePMP3000L & sync pulse in cold weather

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Just a quick heads up for those of you plugging an ePMP3000L into a device
capable of producing a sync-over-power pulse (i.e. a PacketFlux device, or
a CMM or CTM).

It appears that the ePMP3000L won't start, and in some cases will shut
down, in the presence of a traditional canopy-style sync pulse during cold
weather.   It appears that the increased draw created by the heater causes
the power supply to drop out when the sync pulse occurs.

I recommend disabling the sync pulse on any port being used to power a
3000L.   The 3000L doesn't support external sync so this isn't a problem
for sync, and will improve reliability.

-- 
- Forrest
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Re: [AFMUG] callsigns for each licensed PTP link

[Eric Kuhnke]

yes, but it's unnecessarily wasteful and more paperwork to have more than
one callsign for the same latitude/longitude tower or rooftop site
coordinates.



On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 11:37 AM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 10/29/19 1:21 PM, Daniel White wrote:
> > I've never seen a coordinator offer a discount for a number of licenses
> > in bulk at once.  If you were constantly doing a lot of links though I'm
> > sure they would sharpen the pencil so to speak.
>
>
> I dunno why anyone would complain about costs to license in the US. Look
> up Canada's costs to do the same thing.
>
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

[Bill Prince]

Now that I think about it, I wonder how it makes the people who work at 
Apple's Genius Bar feel?



bp


On 10/31/2019 4:42 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

Must be intimidating to have "smart" in your company name.


bp


On 10/31/2019 4:23 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
> My favorite Smartbridges story happened at the Wispcon in Dallas.  I was 
finishing up setting up my booth for ImageStream and so was Tracy from Electrocom. 
 The SB engineers were having a terrible time setting theirs up...and I know they 
were way smarter dudes than me.  We got it up for them.  :-)
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
>>> On Oct 31, 2019, at 6:05 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>> 
>> The one thing I remember was that they (the smartbridges) almost always 
failed by filling with water. I would be willing to bet there is a powershot hiding 
in a box somewhere.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 10/31/2019 2:53 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>> Remember the Powershots?  I still occasionally find those in the van or
>>> under furniture, they're like cockroaches.
>>>
>>>   
>>>

>>> And what was the marking on that stupid 26 AWG Cat5 cable, something like
>>> Space Station Cable or Astronaut Cable?
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>   
>>>

>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 3:21 PM
>>> To:af@af.afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration
>>>
>>>   
>>>

>>> We used a few smartbridges for some intralan building-building type links.
>>> Wow. I'd almost forgotten how bad those things were.
>>>
>>>   
>>>

>>> bp
>>> 
>>>   
>>>

>>> On 10/31/2019 11:51 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> I will say in my experience Cambium radios are far more robust to power
>>> issues than Ubiquiti.  We have a bunch of Nanostations of various vintage at
>>> customer sites to link between buildings, and run into all sorts of lockups,
>>> resets, and deaths due to power issues.  The Cambium radios at the same
>>> sites will be fine.  Each generation of Ubiquiti stuff has been better than
>>> the last, we've been using the NS5 AC Locos for the past year or so, but
>>> Cambium by far has the better power on reset circuitry.
>>>   
>>>   
>>>   
>>> And I remember when we bought a SmartBridges based WISP back in 2005.  Some

>>> of those customers still power cycle the radio every time they have issues.
>>> Those things were junk.
>>>   
>>>   
>>>   
>>>   
>>>   
>>> From: AFOn

>>> Behalf Of Bill Prince
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:25 PM
>>> To:af@af.afmug.com    
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration
>>>   
>>>   
>>>   
>>> I think if the power brick is one of those old ones, then either the too low

>>> voltage or the too high voltage would be an issue. Ever since I started
>>> "doing computer stuff", 80% of all the problems I've seen can be traced back
>>> to power issues of one kind or another.  Back in the 70s when I was working
>>> for Data General, I think 115% of the problems they had were power issues.
>>>   
>>>   
>>>   
>>> bp

>>> 
>>>   
>>>   
>>> On 10/31/2019 11:18 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>   
>>> When I went to change out this SM, it turned out to be an old former Trango

>>> customer from about 14 years ago that we never changed the POE, and it was
>>> in fact a transformer.
>>>   
>>>   
>>>   
>>> Do you think when the power came back on an overvoltage condition propagated

>>> to the SM and fried something?  Or just starved it of voltage and made the
>>> flash memory forget stuff?
>>>   
>>>   
>>>   
>>> BTW while I was out there I put in a new POE and also changed out the board

>>> in the 300SS (we stopped using those around 10 years ago) with one of
>>> Chuck's gas tube replacement boards.
>>>   
>>>   
>>>   
>>>   
>>>   
>>> From: AF  

>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Bill Prince
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:08 PM
>>> To:af@af.afmug.com  
>>>   
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration
>>>   
>>>   
>>>   
>>> I've seen SMs do all kinds of crazy things during a brown out. It happened

>>> more when the power bricks were simple transformers, as the voltage sag
>>> would get through to the SM. They would reset to factory default,
>>> uncalibrated. So yeah.
>>>   
>>> bp

>>> 
>>>   
>>>   
>>> On 10/31/2019 11:01 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>   
>>> Has anyone experienced a Cambium SM losing not just the radio calibration

>>> data but the config and also reverting to 4 Mbps aggregate (it was bought as
>>> a 20 Mbps unit, this wasn't even an upgrade key, although I suspect they all
>>> start as 4 Mbps units and the factory squirts a feature key into them)?
>>>   
>>>   
>>>   
>>> This happened 

Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Must be intimidating to have "smart" in your company name.


bp



On 10/31/2019 4:23 PM, Jeff Broadwick -
  Lists wrote:


  My favorite Smartbridges story happened at the Wispcon in Dallas.  I was finishing up setting up my booth for ImageStream and so was Tracy from Electrocom.  The SB engineers were having a terrible time setting theirs up...and I know they were way smarter dudes than me.  We got it up for them.  :-)

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com


  

  On Oct 31, 2019, at 6:05 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:



The one thing I remember was that they (the smartbridges) almost always failed by filling with water. I would be willing to bet there is a powershot hiding in a box somewhere.



bp


On 10/31/2019 2:53 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  Remember the Powershots?  I still occasionally find those in the van or
under furniture, they're like cockroaches.

 

And what was the marking on that stupid 26 AWG Cat5 cable, something like
Space Station Cable or Astronaut Cable?

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 3:21 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

 

We used a few smartbridges for some intralan building-building type links.
Wow. I'd almost forgotten how bad those things were.

 

bp

 

On 10/31/2019 11:51 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I will say in my experience Cambium radios are far more robust to power
issues than Ubiquiti.  We have a bunch of Nanostations of various vintage at
customer sites to link between buildings, and run into all sorts of lockups,
resets, and deaths due to power issues.  The Cambium radios at the same
sites will be fine.  Each generation of Ubiquiti stuff has been better than
the last, we've been using the NS5 AC Locos for the past year or so, but
Cambium by far has the better power on reset circuitry.
 
 
 
And I remember when we bought a SmartBridges based WISP back in 2005.  Some
of those customers still power cycle the radio every time they have issues.
Those things were junk.
 
 
 
 
 
From: AFOn
Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration
 
 
 
I think if the power brick is one of those old ones, then either the too low
voltage or the too high voltage would be an issue. Ever since I started
"doing computer stuff", 80% of all the problems I've seen can be traced back
to power issues of one kind or another.  Back in the 70s when I was working
for Data General, I think 115% of the problems they had were power issues.
 
 
 
bp

 
 
On 10/31/2019 11:18 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
 
When I went to change out this SM, it turned out to be an old former Trango
customer from about 14 years ago that we never changed the POE, and it was
in fact a transformer.
 
 
 
Do you think when the power came back on an overvoltage condition propagated
to the SM and fried something?  Or just starved it of voltage and made the
flash memory forget stuff?
 
 
 
BTW while I was out there I put in a new POE and also changed out the board
in the 300SS (we stopped using those around 10 years ago) with one of
Chuck's gas tube replacement boards.
 
 
 
 
 
From: AF
  On
Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:08 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration
 
 
 
I've seen SMs do all kinds of crazy things during a brown out. It happened
more when the power bricks were simple transformers, as the voltage sag
would get through to the SM. They would reset to factory default,
uncalibrated. So yeah.
 
bp

 
 
On 10/31/2019 11:01 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
 
Has anyone experienced a Cambium SM losing not just the radio calibration
data but the config and also reverting to 4 Mbps aggregate (it was bought as
a 20 Mbps unit, this wasn't even an upgrade key, although I suspect they all
start as 4 Mbps units and the factory squirts a feature key into them)?
 
 
 
This happened when a customer had a power outage, we had installed a new SM
about a week before.
 
 
 
Cambium Support is wanting a remote session so  they can telnet in and
restore the radio calibration data.  I am thinking there's a bigger problem
than the calibration data, since it lost its config and went back to factory
defaults, and also went from 20 Mbps to 4 Mbps.
 
 
 
We also several concerning log entries including "MPU violation occurred in
this build. MPU is disabled until next upgrade/downgrade" and stuff like
fatal error, illegal instruction and register out of range.
 
 
 
I'm thinking I should just bite the bullet and throw this SM away, although
it's a 3.65 SM so it wasn't cheap.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 








-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

My favorite Smartbridges story happened at the Wispcon in Dallas.  I was 
finishing up setting up my booth for ImageStream and so was Tracy from 
Electrocom.  The SB engineers were having a terrible time setting theirs 
up...and I know they were way smarter dudes than me.  We got it up for them.  
:-)

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

>> On Oct 31, 2019, at 6:05 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> The one thing I remember was that they (the smartbridges) almost always 
> failed by filling with water. I would be willing to bet there is a powershot 
> hiding in a box somewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 10/31/2019 2:53 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> Remember the Powershots?  I still occasionally find those in the van or
>> under furniture, they're like cockroaches.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> And what was the marking on that stupid 26 AWG Cat5 cable, something like
>> Space Station Cable or Astronaut Cable?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 3:21 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> We used a few smartbridges for some intralan building-building type links.
>> Wow. I'd almost forgotten how bad those things were.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On 10/31/2019 11:51 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> 
>> I will say in my experience Cambium radios are far more robust to power
>> issues than Ubiquiti.  We have a bunch of Nanostations of various vintage at
>> customer sites to link between buildings, and run into all sorts of lockups,
>> resets, and deaths due to power issues.  The Cambium radios at the same
>> sites will be fine.  Each generation of Ubiquiti stuff has been better than
>> the last, we've been using the NS5 AC Locos for the past year or so, but
>> Cambium by far has the better power on reset circuitry.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> And I remember when we bought a SmartBridges based WISP back in 2005.  Some
>> of those customers still power cycle the radio every time they have issues.
>> Those things were junk.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: AF    On
>> Behalf Of Bill Prince
>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:25 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com  
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> I think if the power brick is one of those old ones, then either the too low
>> voltage or the too high voltage would be an issue. Ever since I started
>> "doing computer stuff", 80% of all the problems I've seen can be traced back
>> to power issues of one kind or another.  Back in the 70s when I was working
>> for Data General, I think 115% of the problems they had were power issues.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> bp
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> On 10/31/2019 11:18 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>  
>> When I went to change out this SM, it turned out to be an old former Trango
>> customer from about 14 years ago that we never changed the POE, and it was
>> in fact a transformer.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Do you think when the power came back on an overvoltage condition propagated
>> to the SM and fried something?  Or just starved it of voltage and made the
>> flash memory forget stuff?
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> BTW while I was out there I put in a new POE and also changed out the board
>> in the 300SS (we stopped using those around 10 years ago) with one of
>> Chuck's gas tube replacement boards.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: AF    
>>   On
>> Behalf Of Bill Prince
>> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:08 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com    
>>  
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> I've seen SMs do all kinds of crazy things during a brown out. It happened
>> more when the power bricks were simple transformers, as the voltage sag
>> would get through to the SM. They would reset to factory default,
>> uncalibrated. So yeah.
>>  
>> bp
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> On 10/31/2019 11:01 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>  
>> Has anyone experienced a Cambium SM losing not just the radio calibration
>> data but the config and also reverting to 4 Mbps aggregate (it was bought as
>> a 20 Mbps unit, this wasn't even an upgrade key, although I suspect they all
>> start as 4 Mbps units and the factory squirts a feature key into them)?
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> This happened when a customer had a power outage, we had installed a new SM
>> about a week before.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Cambium Support is wanting a remote session so  they can telnet in and
>> restore the radio calibration data.  I am thinking there's a bigger problem
>> than the calibration data, since it lost its config and went back to factory
>> defaults, and also went from 20 Mbps to 4 Mbps.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> We also several concerning log entries including 

Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

[Bill Prince]

  
  
The one thing I remember was that they (the smartbridges) almost
  always failed by filling with water. I would be willing to bet
  there is a powershot hiding in a box somewhere.


bp



On 10/31/2019 2:53 PM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  Remember the Powershots?  I still occasionally find those in the van or
under furniture, they're like cockroaches.

 

And what was the marking on that stupid 26 AWG Cat5 cable, something like
Space Station Cable or Astronaut Cable?

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 3:21 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

 

We used a few smartbridges for some intralan building-building type links.
Wow. I'd almost forgotten how bad those things were.

 

bp

 

On 10/31/2019 11:51 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I will say in my experience Cambium radios are far more robust to power
issues than Ubiquiti.  We have a bunch of Nanostations of various vintage at
customer sites to link between buildings, and run into all sorts of lockups,
resets, and deaths due to power issues.  The Cambium radios at the same
sites will be fine.  Each generation of Ubiquiti stuff has been better than
the last, we've been using the NS5 AC Locos for the past year or so, but
Cambium by far has the better power on reset circuitry.
 
 
 
And I remember when we bought a SmartBridges based WISP back in 2005.  Some
of those customers still power cycle the radio every time they have issues.
Those things were junk.
 
 
 
 
 
From: AFOn
Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration
 
 
 
I think if the power brick is one of those old ones, then either the too low
voltage or the too high voltage would be an issue. Ever since I started
"doing computer stuff", 80% of all the problems I've seen can be traced back
to power issues of one kind or another.  Back in the 70s when I was working
for Data General, I think 115% of the problems they had were power issues.
 
 
 
bp

 
 
On 10/31/2019 11:18 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
 
When I went to change out this SM, it turned out to be an old former Trango
customer from about 14 years ago that we never changed the POE, and it was
in fact a transformer.
 
 
 
Do you think when the power came back on an overvoltage condition propagated
to the SM and fried something?  Or just starved it of voltage and made the
flash memory forget stuff?
 
 
 
BTW while I was out there I put in a new POE and also changed out the board
in the 300SS (we stopped using those around 10 years ago) with one of
Chuck's gas tube replacement boards.
 
 
 
 
 
From: AF
  On
Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:08 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration
 
 
 
I've seen SMs do all kinds of crazy things during a brown out. It happened
more when the power bricks were simple transformers, as the voltage sag
would get through to the SM. They would reset to factory default,
uncalibrated. So yeah.
 
bp

 
 
On 10/31/2019 11:01 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
 
Has anyone experienced a Cambium SM losing not just the radio calibration
data but the config and also reverting to 4 Mbps aggregate (it was bought as
a 20 Mbps unit, this wasn't even an upgrade key, although I suspect they all
start as 4 Mbps units and the factory squirts a feature key into them)?
 
 
 
This happened when a customer had a power outage, we had installed a new SM
about a week before.
 
 
 
Cambium Support is wanting a remote session so  they can telnet in and
restore the radio calibration data.  I am thinking there's a bigger problem
than the calibration data, since it lost its config and went back to factory
defaults, and also went from 20 Mbps to 4 Mbps.
 
 
 
We also several concerning log entries including "MPU violation occurred in
this build. MPU is disabled until next upgrade/downgrade" and stuff like
fatal error, illegal instruction and register out of range.
 
 
 
I'm thinking I should just bite the bullet and throw this SM away, although
it's a 3.65 SM so it wasn't cheap.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 







  
  

  


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AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

[Ken Hohhof]

Remember the Powershots?  I still occasionally find those in the van or
under furniture, they're like cockroaches.

 

And what was the marking on that stupid 26 AWG Cat5 cable, something like
Space Station Cable or Astronaut Cable?

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 3:21 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

 

We used a few smartbridges for some intralan building-building type links.
Wow. I'd almost forgotten how bad those things were.

 

bp

 

On 10/31/2019 11:51 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I will say in my experience Cambium radios are far more robust to power
issues than Ubiquiti.  We have a bunch of Nanostations of various vintage at
customer sites to link between buildings, and run into all sorts of lockups,
resets, and deaths due to power issues.  The Cambium radios at the same
sites will be fine.  Each generation of Ubiquiti stuff has been better than
the last, we've been using the NS5 AC Locos for the past year or so, but
Cambium by far has the better power on reset circuitry.
 
 
 
And I remember when we bought a SmartBridges based WISP back in 2005.  Some
of those customers still power cycle the radio every time they have issues.
Those things were junk.
 
 
 
 
 
From: AF    On
Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration
 
 
 
I think if the power brick is one of those old ones, then either the too low
voltage or the too high voltage would be an issue. Ever since I started
"doing computer stuff", 80% of all the problems I've seen can be traced back
to power issues of one kind or another.  Back in the 70s when I was working
for Data General, I think 115% of the problems they had were power issues.
 
 
 
bp

 
 
On 10/31/2019 11:18 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
 
When I went to change out this SM, it turned out to be an old former Trango
customer from about 14 years ago that we never changed the POE, and it was
in fact a transformer.
 
 
 
Do you think when the power came back on an overvoltage condition propagated
to the SM and fried something?  Or just starved it of voltage and made the
flash memory forget stuff?
 
 
 
BTW while I was out there I put in a new POE and also changed out the board
in the 300SS (we stopped using those around 10 years ago) with one of
Chuck's gas tube replacement boards.
 
 
 
 
 
From: AF    
  On
Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:08 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com    
 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration
 
 
 
I've seen SMs do all kinds of crazy things during a brown out. It happened
more when the power bricks were simple transformers, as the voltage sag
would get through to the SM. They would reset to factory default,
uncalibrated. So yeah.
 
bp

 
 
On 10/31/2019 11:01 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
 
Has anyone experienced a Cambium SM losing not just the radio calibration
data but the config and also reverting to 4 Mbps aggregate (it was bought as
a 20 Mbps unit, this wasn't even an upgrade key, although I suspect they all
start as 4 Mbps units and the factory squirts a feature key into them)?
 
 
 
This happened when a customer had a power outage, we had installed a new SM
about a week before.
 
 
 
Cambium Support is wanting a remote session so  they can telnet in and
restore the radio calibration data.  I am thinking there's a bigger problem
than the calibration data, since it lost its config and went back to factory
defaults, and also went from 20 Mbps to 4 Mbps.
 
 
 
We also several concerning log entries including "MPU violation occurred in
this build. MPU is disabled until next upgrade/downgrade" and stuff like
fatal error, illegal instruction and register out of range.
 
 
 
I'm thinking I should just bite the bullet and throw this SM away, although
it's a 3.65 SM so it wasn't cheap.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

[Bill Prince]

  
  
We used a few smartbridges for some intralan building-building
  type links. Wow. I'd almost forgotten how bad those things were.


bp



On 10/31/2019 11:51 AM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  I will say in my experience Cambium radios are far more robust to power
issues than Ubiquiti.  We have a bunch of Nanostations of various vintage at
customer sites to link between buildings, and run into all sorts of lockups,
resets, and deaths due to power issues.  The Cambium radios at the same
sites will be fine.  Each generation of Ubiquiti stuff has been better than
the last, we've been using the NS5 AC Locos for the past year or so, but
Cambium by far has the better power on reset circuitry.

 

And I remember when we bought a SmartBridges based WISP back in 2005.  Some
of those customers still power cycle the radio every time they have issues.
Those things were junk.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

 

I think if the power brick is one of those old ones, then either the too low
voltage or the too high voltage would be an issue. Ever since I started
"doing computer stuff", 80% of all the problems I've seen can be traced back
to power issues of one kind or another.  Back in the 70s when I was working
for Data General, I think 115% of the problems they had were power issues.

 

bp

 

On 10/31/2019 11:18 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

When I went to change out this SM, it turned out to be an old former Trango
customer from about 14 years ago that we never changed the POE, and it was
in fact a transformer.
 
 
 
Do you think when the power came back on an overvoltage condition propagated
to the SM and fried something?  Or just starved it of voltage and made the
flash memory forget stuff?
 
 
 
BTW while I was out there I put in a new POE and also changed out the board
in the 300SS (we stopped using those around 10 years ago) with one of
Chuck's gas tube replacement boards.
 
 
 
 
 
From: AFOn
Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:08 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration
 
 
 
I've seen SMs do all kinds of crazy things during a brown out. It happened
more when the power bricks were simple transformers, as the voltage sag
would get through to the SM. They would reset to factory default,
uncalibrated. So yeah.
 
bp

 
 
On 10/31/2019 11:01 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
 
Has anyone experienced a Cambium SM losing not just the radio calibration
data but the config and also reverting to 4 Mbps aggregate (it was bought as
a 20 Mbps unit, this wasn't even an upgrade key, although I suspect they all
start as 4 Mbps units and the factory squirts a feature key into them)?
 
 
 
This happened when a customer had a power outage, we had installed a new SM
about a week before.
 
 
 
Cambium Support is wanting a remote session so  they can telnet in and
restore the radio calibration data.  I am thinking there's a bigger problem
than the calibration data, since it lost its config and went back to factory
defaults, and also went from 20 Mbps to 4 Mbps.
 
 
 
We also several concerning log entries including "MPU violation occurred in
this build. MPU is disabled until next upgrade/downgrade" and stuff like
fatal error, illegal instruction and register out of range.
 
 
 
I'm thinking I should just bite the bullet and throw this SM away, although
it's a 3.65 SM so it wasn't cheap.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 







  
  

  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

[Adam Moffett]

Even cooler when they're filled with water.

On 10/31/2019 3:51 PM, Mike Meluskey wrote:


But you have to admit, they looked cool:

On 31 Oct 2019, at 15:42, Adam Moffett wrote:

Smartbridges.you just triggered my PTSD

On 10/31/2019 2:51 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


I will say in my experience Cambium radios are far more robust to
power issues than Ubiquiti.  We have a bunch of Nanostations of
various vintage at customer sites to link between buildings, and
run into all sorts of lockups, resets, and deaths due to power
issues.  The Cambium radios at the same sites will be fine.  Each
generation of Ubiquiti stuff has been better than the last, we’ve
been using the NS5 AC Locos for the past year or so, but Cambium
by far has the better power on reset circuitry.

And I remember when we bought a SmartBridges based WISP back in
2005.  Some of those customers still power cycle the radio every
time they have issues.  Those things were junk.

*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:25 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio
calibration

I think if the power brick is one of those old ones, then either
the too low voltage or the too high voltage would be an issue.
Ever since I started "doing computer stuff", 80% of all the
problems I've seen can be traced back to power issues of one kind
or another.  Back in the 70s when I was working for Data General,
I think 115% of the problems they had were power issues.

bp


On 10/31/2019 11:18 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

When I went to change out this SM, it turned out to be an old former 
Trango

customer from about 14 years ago that we never changed the POE, and it 
was

in fact a transformer.

  


Do you think when the power came back on an overvoltage condition 
propagated

to the SM and fried something?  Or just starved it of voltage and made 
the

flash memory forget stuff?

  


BTW while I was out there I put in a new POE and also changed out the 
board

in the 300SS (we stopped using those around 10 years ago) with one of

Chuck's gas tube replacement boards.

  

  


From: AF    On 
Behalf Of Bill Prince

Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:08 PM

To:af@af.afmug.com  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio 
calibration

  


I've seen SMs do all kinds of crazy things during a brown out. It 
happened

more when the power bricks were simple transformers, as the voltage sag

would get through to the SM. They would reset to factory default,

uncalibrated. So yeah.

bp



  


On 10/31/2019 11:01 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Has anyone experienced a Cambium SM losing not just the radio 
calibration

data but the config and also reverting to 4 Mbps aggregate (it was 
bought as

a 20 Mbps unit, this wasn't even an upgrade key, although I suspect 
they all

start as 4 Mbps units and the factory squirts a feature key into them)?

  

  

  


This happened when a customer had a power outage, we had installed a 
new SM

about a week before.

  

  

  


Cambium Support is wanting a remote session so  they can telnet in and

restore the radio calibration data.  I am thinking there's a bigger 
problem

than the calibration data, since it lost its config and went back to 
factory

defaults, and also went from 20 Mbps to 4 Mbps.

  

  

  


We also several concerning log entries including "MPU violation 
occurred in

this build. MPU is disabled until next upgrade/downgrade" and stuff like

fatal error, illegal instruction and register out of range.

  

  

  


I'm thinking I should just bite the bullet and throw this SM away, 
although

it's a 3.65 SM so it wasn't cheap.

  

  





-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

[Adam Moffett]

Smartbridges.you just triggered my PTSD

On 10/31/2019 2:51 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


I will say in my experience Cambium radios are far more robust to 
power issues than Ubiquiti.  We have a bunch of Nanostations of 
various vintage at customer sites to link between buildings, and run 
into all sorts of lockups, resets, and deaths due to power issues.  
The Cambium radios at the same sites will be fine.  Each generation of 
Ubiquiti stuff has been better than the last, we’ve been using the NS5 
AC Locos for the past year or so, but Cambium by far has the better 
power on reset circuitry.


And I remember when we bought a SmartBridges based WISP back in 2005.  
Some of those customers still power cycle the radio every time they 
have issues.  Those things were junk.


*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:25 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio 
calibration


I think if the power brick is one of those old ones, then either the 
too low voltage or the too high voltage would be an issue. Ever since 
I started "doing computer stuff", 80% of all the problems I've seen 
can be traced back to power issues of one kind or another.  Back in 
the 70s when I was working for Data General, I think 115% of the 
problems they had were power issues.


bp


On 10/31/2019 11:18 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

When I went to change out this SM, it turned out to be an old former Trango

customer from about 14 years ago that we never changed the POE, and it was

in fact a transformer.

  


Do you think when the power came back on an overvoltage condition propagated

to the SM and fried something?  Or just starved it of voltage and made the

flash memory forget stuff?

  


BTW while I was out there I put in a new POE and also changed out the board

in the 300SS (we stopped using those around 10 years ago) with one of

Chuck's gas tube replacement boards.

  

  


From: AF    On 
Behalf Of Bill Prince

Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:08 PM

To:af@af.afmug.com  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

  


I've seen SMs do all kinds of crazy things during a brown out. It happened

more when the power bricks were simple transformers, as the voltage sag

would get through to the SM. They would reset to factory default,

uncalibrated. So yeah.

bp



  


On 10/31/2019 11:01 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Has anyone experienced a Cambium SM losing not just the radio calibration

data but the config and also reverting to 4 Mbps aggregate (it was bought as

a 20 Mbps unit, this wasn't even an upgrade key, although I suspect they all

start as 4 Mbps units and the factory squirts a feature key into them)?

  

  

  


This happened when a customer had a power outage, we had installed a new SM

about a week before.

  

  

  


Cambium Support is wanting a remote session so  they can telnet in and

restore the radio calibration data.  I am thinking there's a bigger problem

than the calibration data, since it lost its config and went back to factory

defaults, and also went from 20 Mbps to 4 Mbps.

  

  

  


We also several concerning log entries including "MPU violation occurred in

this build. MPU is disabled until next upgrade/downgrade" and stuff like

fatal error, illegal instruction and register out of range.

  

  

  


I'm thinking I should just bite the bullet and throw this SM away, although

it's a 3.65 SM so it wasn't cheap.

  

  





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

[Ken Hohhof]

I will say in my experience Cambium radios are far more robust to power
issues than Ubiquiti.  We have a bunch of Nanostations of various vintage at
customer sites to link between buildings, and run into all sorts of lockups,
resets, and deaths due to power issues.  The Cambium radios at the same
sites will be fine.  Each generation of Ubiquiti stuff has been better than
the last, we've been using the NS5 AC Locos for the past year or so, but
Cambium by far has the better power on reset circuitry.

 

And I remember when we bought a SmartBridges based WISP back in 2005.  Some
of those customers still power cycle the radio every time they have issues.
Those things were junk.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:25 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

 

I think if the power brick is one of those old ones, then either the too low
voltage or the too high voltage would be an issue. Ever since I started
"doing computer stuff", 80% of all the problems I've seen can be traced back
to power issues of one kind or another.  Back in the 70s when I was working
for Data General, I think 115% of the problems they had were power issues.

 

bp

 

On 10/31/2019 11:18 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

When I went to change out this SM, it turned out to be an old former Trango
customer from about 14 years ago that we never changed the POE, and it was
in fact a transformer.
 
 
 
Do you think when the power came back on an overvoltage condition propagated
to the SM and fried something?  Or just starved it of voltage and made the
flash memory forget stuff?
 
 
 
BTW while I was out there I put in a new POE and also changed out the board
in the 300SS (we stopped using those around 10 years ago) with one of
Chuck's gas tube replacement boards.
 
 
 
 
 
From: AF    On
Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:08 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration
 
 
 
I've seen SMs do all kinds of crazy things during a brown out. It happened
more when the power bricks were simple transformers, as the voltage sag
would get through to the SM. They would reset to factory default,
uncalibrated. So yeah.
 
bp

 
 
On 10/31/2019 11:01 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
 
Has anyone experienced a Cambium SM losing not just the radio calibration
data but the config and also reverting to 4 Mbps aggregate (it was bought as
a 20 Mbps unit, this wasn't even an upgrade key, although I suspect they all
start as 4 Mbps units and the factory squirts a feature key into them)?
 
 
 
This happened when a customer had a power outage, we had installed a new SM
about a week before.
 
 
 
Cambium Support is wanting a remote session so  they can telnet in and
restore the radio calibration data.  I am thinking there's a bigger problem
than the calibration data, since it lost its config and went back to factory
defaults, and also went from 20 Mbps to 4 Mbps.
 
 
 
We also several concerning log entries including "MPU violation occurred in
this build. MPU is disabled until next upgrade/downgrade" and stuff like
fatal error, illegal instruction and register out of range.
 
 
 
I'm thinking I should just bite the bullet and throw this SM away, although
it's a 3.65 SM so it wasn't cheap.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Asymmetric channels for up/down allow it to be either FDD or TDD.
  If the frequencies are not overlapping, then not doing FDD might
  be wasteful, but it wouldn't be mandatory.


bp



On 10/31/2019 10:57 AM, Adam Moffett
  wrote:

What is
  asymmetric channel freq if it's not FDD?
  
  
  
  On 10/31/2019 1:38 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
  
  

No fdd… CA if posible…


*From: *AF  on behalf of Adam
Moffett 

*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group


*Date: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 11:50 AM

*To: *"af@af.afmug.com" 

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM
limit


So FDD and carrier aggregation?  Those are usually high priced
features.


On 10/31/2019 11:45 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:


    and we are at it, @Matt Mangriotis

     consider
the

    following for an extended life of the 450 platform:


    -Asymmetric channel size configuration


    -Asymmetric channel freq. configuration


    -higher modulations (don’t know if HW is capable)


    -fragmented channel assignment / CA Ex.= 40 mhz total split
in 4

    10mhz blocks (don’t know if HW is capable)


    -Omni Medusa and 60/30 deg Medusa


    -Vivato type PTP certification for Medusa (higher TX power)


    *Gino**Villarini **

    *Founder/President

    @gvillarini

    t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204

    m:


    Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo



    

    Image removed by sender. inc500



    

    Image removed by sender. fb-logo

    


    

    Image removed by sender. insta-logo

    


    

    Image removed by sender. in-logo

   



    

    Image removed by sender. tw-logo

   



    

    Image removed by sender. yt-logo

   



    

    www.aeronetpr.com  | Metro
Office Park

    #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968


    *From: *AF 

     on behalf of Mike
Hammett

     

    *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group


    

    *Date: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 10:08 AM

    *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group


    

    *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM
limit


    I think a 25 dBi antenna would be a standard customer
install.




    -

    Mike Hammett

    Intelligent Computing Solutions


    Image removed by sender.
Image

    removed by sender.

   
Image
    removed by sender.

   
Image
    removed by sender. 

    Midwest Internet Exchange 

    Image removed by sender.
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    removed by sender.

   
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    removed by sender. 

    The Brothers WISP 

    Image removed by sender.

    Image
removed by sender.



   



   



    *From: *"Adam Moffett" 

    

    *To: *af@af.afmug.com 

    *Sent: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:05:58 AM

    *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM
limit


    Yesgive us all the goddamn gain.  There must be a vocal
market

    segment that wants small, cute antennas.  But, If you want
the 32+

    SNR for 256QAM then you need gain.  Gain beets cuteness for

    anybody who's done the math.


    On 10/31/2019 10:02 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:


    

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Gino A. Villarini]

Also helps with picking channels that might be congested in the tower but not 
so on the customer end and vice-versa..

Imagine these 2 features:

-Asymmetric channel size configuration
-Asymmetric channel freq. configuration

AP
Tx 40 mhz 5800
Rx 10 mhz 5840




From: AF  on behalf of Adam Moffett 

Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 2:19 PM
To: "af@af.afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit


As I thought about it moreI guess if you stick with a TDD duty cycle then 
you could pick up and down frequencies which would otherwise interfere with 
each other and it stays in sync with your other TDD equipment.

I think I'm on board now.


On 10/31/2019 2:06 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
Different freqs for download vs upload… on tdd.. UBNT LTU has this

From: AF  on behalf of 
Adam Moffett 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Date: Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 1:58 PM
To: "af@af.afmug.com" 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit


What is asymmetric channel freq if it's not FDD?

On 10/31/2019 1:38 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
No fdd… CA if posible…

From: AF  on behalf of 
Adam Moffett 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Date: Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 11:50 AM
To: "af@af.afmug.com" 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit


So FDD and carrier aggregation?  Those are usually high priced features.


On 10/31/2019 11:45 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
and we are at it, @Matt Mangriotis 
consider the following for an extended life of the 450 platform:

-Asymmetric channel size configuration
-Asymmetric channel freq. configuration
-higher modulations (don’t know if HW is capable)
-fragmented channel assignment / CA Ex.= 40 mhz total split in 4 10mhz blocks 
(don’t know if HW is capable)
-Omni Medusa and 60/30 deg Medusa
-Vivato type PTP certification for Medusa (higher TX power)



Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
m:
[Image removed by sender.   
aeronet-logo]
[Image removed by sender. inc500]
[Image removed by sender. fb-logo]
[Image removed by sender. 
insta-logo]
[Image removed by sender. 
in-logo]
[Image removed by sender. 
tw-logo]
[Image removed by sender. 
yt-logo]

www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968
From: AF  on behalf of 
Mike Hammett 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Date: Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 10:08 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

I think a 25 dBi antenna would be a standard customer install.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[Image removed by sender.][Image removed by 
sender.][Image 
removed by 
sender.][Image
 removed by sender.]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[Image removed by sender.][Image removed by 
sender.][Image 
removed by sender.]
The Brothers WISP
[Image removed by sender.][Image 
removed by sender.]




From: "Adam Moffett" 
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:05:58 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

Yesgive us all the goddamn gain.  There must be a vocal market segment that 
wants small, cute antennas.  But, If you want the 32+ SNR for 256QAM then you 
need gain.  Gain beets cuteness for anybody who's done the math.


On 10/31/2019 10:02 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
Matt,

The original form factor product would be fantastic.   It would be even better 
if you make it so the internal unit antenna is 

Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I think if the power brick is one of those old ones, then either
  the too low voltage or the too high voltage would be an issue.
  Ever since I started "doing computer stuff", 80% of all the
  problems I've seen can be traced back to power issues of one kind
  or another.  Back in the 70s when I was working for Data General,
  I think 115% of the problems they had were power issues.



bp



On 10/31/2019 11:18 AM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  When I went to change out this SM, it turned out to be an old former Trango
customer from about 14 years ago that we never changed the POE, and it was
in fact a transformer.

 

Do you think when the power came back on an overvoltage condition propagated
to the SM and fried something?  Or just starved it of voltage and made the
flash memory forget stuff?

 

BTW while I was out there I put in a new POE and also changed out the board
in the 300SS (we stopped using those around 10 years ago) with one of
Chuck's gas tube replacement boards.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:08 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

 

I've seen SMs do all kinds of crazy things during a brown out. It happened
more when the power bricks were simple transformers, as the voltage sag
would get through to the SM. They would reset to factory default,
uncalibrated. So yeah.

bp

 

On 10/31/2019 11:01 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Has anyone experienced a Cambium SM losing not just the radio calibration
data but the config and also reverting to 4 Mbps aggregate (it was bought as
a 20 Mbps unit, this wasn't even an upgrade key, although I suspect they all
start as 4 Mbps units and the factory squirts a feature key into them)?
 
 
 
This happened when a customer had a power outage, we had installed a new SM
about a week before.
 
 
 
Cambium Support is wanting a remote session so  they can telnet in and
restore the radio calibration data.  I am thinking there's a bigger problem
than the calibration data, since it lost its config and went back to factory
defaults, and also went from 20 Mbps to 4 Mbps.
 
 
 
We also several concerning log entries including "MPU violation occurred in
this build. MPU is disabled until next upgrade/downgrade" and stuff like
fatal error, illegal instruction and register out of range.
 
 
 
I'm thinking I should just bite the bullet and throw this SM away, although
it's a 3.65 SM so it wasn't cheap.
 
 







  
  

  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Adam Moffett]

As I thought about it moreI guess if you stick with a TDD duty cycle 
then you could pick up and down frequencies which would otherwise 
interfere with each other and it stays in sync with your other TDD 
equipment.


I think I'm on board now.


On 10/31/2019 2:06 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:


Different freqs for download vs upload… on tdd.. UBNT LTU has this

*From: *AF  on behalf of Adam Moffett 


*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Date: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 1:58 PM
*To: *"af@af.afmug.com" 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

What is asymmetric channel freq if it's not FDD?

On 10/31/2019 1:38 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

No fdd… CA if posible…

*From: *AF 
 on behalf of Adam Moffett
 
*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Date: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 11:50 AM
*To: *"af@af.afmug.com"  

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

So FDD and carrier aggregation?  Those are usually high priced
features.

On 10/31/2019 11:45 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

and we are at it, @Matt Mangriotis
 consider the
following for an extended life of the 450 platform:

-Asymmetric channel size configuration

-Asymmetric channel freq. configuration

-higher modulations (don’t know if HW is capable)

-fragmented channel assignment / CA Ex.= 40 mhz total split in
4 10mhz blocks (don’t know if HW is capable)

-Omni Medusa and 60/30 deg Medusa

-Vivato type PTP certification for Medusa (higher TX power)

*Gino**Villarini **
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
m:

Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo 



Image removed by sender. inc500




Image removed by sender. fb-logo




Image removed by sender. insta-logo




Image removed by sender. in-logo




Image removed by sender. tw-logo






Image removed by sender. yt-logo




www.aeronetpr.com  | Metro Office
Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968

*From: *AF 
 on behalf of Mike Hammett
 
*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Date: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 10:08 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

I think a 25 dBi antenna would be a standard customer install.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
Image removed by sender. Image
removed by sender.
Image
removed by sender.
Image
removed by sender. 
Midwest Internet Exchange 
Image removed by sender.
Image removed by sender.
Image
removed by sender. 
The Brothers WISP 
Image removed by sender.
Image removed by sender.






*From: *"Adam Moffett" 

*To: *af@af.afmug.com 
*Sent: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:05:58 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

Yesgive us all the goddamn gain.  There must be a vocal
market segment that wants small, cute antennas. But, If you
want the 32+ SNR for 256QAM then you need gain.  Gain beets
cuteness for anybody who's done the math.

On 10/31/2019 10:02 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

 

Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

[Ken Hohhof]

When I went to change out this SM, it turned out to be an old former Trango
customer from about 14 years ago that we never changed the POE, and it was
in fact a transformer.

 

Do you think when the power came back on an overvoltage condition propagated
to the SM and fried something?  Or just starved it of voltage and made the
flash memory forget stuff?

 

BTW while I was out there I put in a new POE and also changed out the board
in the 300SS (we stopped using those around 10 years ago) with one of
Chuck's gas tube replacement boards.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:08 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

 

I've seen SMs do all kinds of crazy things during a brown out. It happened
more when the power bricks were simple transformers, as the voltage sag
would get through to the SM. They would reset to factory default,
uncalibrated. So yeah.

bp

 

On 10/31/2019 11:01 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Has anyone experienced a Cambium SM losing not just the radio calibration
data but the config and also reverting to 4 Mbps aggregate (it was bought as
a 20 Mbps unit, this wasn't even an upgrade key, although I suspect they all
start as 4 Mbps units and the factory squirts a feature key into them)?
 
 
 
This happened when a customer had a power outage, we had installed a new SM
about a week before.
 
 
 
Cambium Support is wanting a remote session so  they can telnet in and
restore the radio calibration data.  I am thinking there's a bigger problem
than the calibration data, since it lost its config and went back to factory
defaults, and also went from 20 Mbps to 4 Mbps.
 
 
 
We also several concerning log entries including "MPU violation occurred in
this build. MPU is disabled until next upgrade/downgrade" and stuff like
fatal error, illegal instruction and register out of range.
 
 
 
I'm thinking I should just bite the bullet and throw this SM away, although
it's a 3.65 SM so it wasn't cheap.
 
 





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Adam Moffett]

I guess I don't understand how having different frequencies for uplink 
and downlink is not FDD.  What am I missing?



On 10/31/2019 2:06 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:


Different freqs for download vs upload… on tdd.. UBNT LTU has this

*From: *AF  on behalf of Adam Moffett 


*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Date: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 1:58 PM
*To: *"af@af.afmug.com" 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

What is asymmetric channel freq if it's not FDD?

On 10/31/2019 1:38 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

No fdd… CA if posible…

*From: *AF 
 on behalf of Adam Moffett
 
*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Date: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 11:50 AM
*To: *"af@af.afmug.com"  

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

So FDD and carrier aggregation?  Those are usually high priced
features.

On 10/31/2019 11:45 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

and we are at it, @Matt Mangriotis
 consider the
following for an extended life of the 450 platform:

-Asymmetric channel size configuration

-Asymmetric channel freq. configuration

-higher modulations (don’t know if HW is capable)

-fragmented channel assignment / CA Ex.= 40 mhz total split in
4 10mhz blocks (don’t know if HW is capable)

-Omni Medusa and 60/30 deg Medusa

-Vivato type PTP certification for Medusa (higher TX power)

*Gino**Villarini **
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
m:

Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo 



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www.aeronetpr.com  | Metro Office
Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968

*From: *AF 
 on behalf of Mike Hammett
 
*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Date: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 10:08 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

I think a 25 dBi antenna would be a standard customer install.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
Image removed by sender. Image
removed by sender.
Image
removed by sender.
Image
removed by sender. 
Midwest Internet Exchange 
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Image
removed by sender. 
The Brothers WISP 
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*From: *"Adam Moffett" 

*To: *af@af.afmug.com 
*Sent: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:05:58 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

Yesgive us all the goddamn gain.  There must be a vocal
market segment that wants small, cute antennas. But, If you
want the 32+ SNR for 256QAM then you need gain.  Gain beets
cuteness for anybody who's done the math.

On 10/31/2019 10:02 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Matt,

The original form factor product would be fantastic.   It
would be even better if you make 

Re: [AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I've seen SMs do all kinds of crazy things during a brown out. It
  happened more when the power bricks were simple transformers, as
  the voltage sag would get through to the SM. They would reset to
  factory default, uncalibrated. So yeah.

bp



On 10/31/2019 11:01 AM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  Has anyone experienced a Cambium SM losing not just the radio calibration
data but the config and also reverting to 4 Mbps aggregate (it was bought as
a 20 Mbps unit, this wasn't even an upgrade key, although I suspect they all
start as 4 Mbps units and the factory squirts a feature key into them)?

 

This happened when a customer had a power outage, we had installed a new SM
about a week before.

 

Cambium Support is wanting a remote session so  they can telnet in and
restore the radio calibration data.  I am thinking there's a bigger problem
than the calibration data, since it lost its config and went back to factory
defaults, and also went from 20 Mbps to 4 Mbps.

 

We also several concerning log entries including "MPU violation occurred in
this build. MPU is disabled until next upgrade/downgrade" and stuff like
fatal error, illegal instruction and register out of range.

 

I'm thinking I should just bite the bullet and throw this SM away, although
it's a 3.65 SM so it wasn't cheap.



  
  

  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Gino A. Villarini]

Different freqs for download vs upload… on tdd.. UBNT LTU has this

From: AF  on behalf of Adam Moffett 

Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 1:58 PM
To: "af@af.afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit


What is asymmetric channel freq if it's not FDD?

On 10/31/2019 1:38 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
No fdd… CA if posible…

From: AF  on behalf of 
Adam Moffett 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Date: Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 11:50 AM
To: "af@af.afmug.com" 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit


So FDD and carrier aggregation?  Those are usually high priced features.


On 10/31/2019 11:45 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
and we are at it, @Matt Mangriotis 
consider the following for an extended life of the 450 platform:

-Asymmetric channel size configuration
-Asymmetric channel freq. configuration
-higher modulations (don’t know if HW is capable)
-fragmented channel assignment / CA Ex.= 40 mhz total split in 4 10mhz blocks 
(don’t know if HW is capable)
-Omni Medusa and 60/30 deg Medusa
-Vivato type PTP certification for Medusa (higher TX power)



Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
m:
[Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo]
[Image removed by sender. inc500]
[Image removed by sender. fb-logo]
[Image removed by sender. 
insta-logo]
[Image removed by sender. 
in-logo]
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tw-logo]
[Image removed by sender. 
yt-logo]

www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968
From: AF  on behalf of 
Mike Hammett 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Date: Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 10:08 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

I think a 25 dBi antenna would be a standard customer install.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[Image removed by sender.][Image removed by 
sender.][Image 
removed by 
sender.][Image
 removed by sender.]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[Image removed by sender.][Image removed by 
sender.][Image 
removed by sender.]
The Brothers WISP
[Image removed by sender.][Image 
removed by sender.]




From: "Adam Moffett" 
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:05:58 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

Yesgive us all the goddamn gain.  There must be a vocal market segment that 
wants small, cute antennas.  But, If you want the 32+ SNR for 256QAM then you 
need gain.  Gain beets cuteness for anybody who's done the math.


On 10/31/2019 10:02 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
Matt,

The original form factor product would be fantastic.   It would be even better 
if you make it so the internal unit antenna is specifically designed to 
properly illuminate a reflector dish.

The original patch antenna matching to a reflector was always something of a 
kludge that worked but was not optimal.   I don’t see any point in designing 
the unit with a patch antenna intended for short range use as there are 
other/better products in the lineup to serve that purpose.Having a unit 
that is optimized for the thousands of KP, Beehive, Cambium reflectors we have 
in the field would be great.

Having a unit with connectors that cleanly mates into a twistport horn adapter 
would also be a useful tool in the toolbox.

If there is anything that Cambium (and every other vendor) has taught us over 
the years is that you can’t have too much gain and directionality in your 
client antennas.   it’s really the secret to why fixed wireless in unlicensed 
works so well.   The 450b high gain that wasn’t high gain was disappointing.   
Having the option to cleanly add antenna gain again would 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Ryan Hill]

Attention Matt! 

Can you confirm you’ve received the last few emails from the Cambium Lifers:) ? 

 I’d like to add that it would be advantageous fort you to give the Lifers an 
opportunity to help you in the design and testing process.  Real world 
deployments and installations are the best way to find out how your products 
work.  Just having the engineer test is great for the initial design phase 
under ideal circumstances.  Once you get closer to the final design having the 
prototypes tested under real conditions would be a good thing.  We would really 
welcome being involved in that phase, and I think I speak for most that saw a 
real miss with the 450b High Gain for those exact reasons.

#CambiumRocks .  



  
 Ryan Hill 
   Operations Manager
 Amplex Internet
  (419)837-5015 Ext 1047 
  www.amplex.net 






> On Oct 31, 2019, at 10:07 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> I think a 25 dBi antenna would be a standard customer install.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>   
>  
>  
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>   
>  
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> From: "Adam Moffett" 
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:05:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit
> 
> Yesgive us all the goddamn gain.  There must be a vocal market segment 
> that wants small, cute antennas.  But, If you want the 32+ SNR for 256QAM 
> then you need gain.  Gain beets cuteness for anybody who's done the math.
> 
> On 10/31/2019 10:02 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
> Matt,
> 
> The original form factor product would be fantastic.   It would be even 
> better if you make it so the internal unit antenna is specifically designed 
> to properly illuminate a reflector dish.  
> 
> The original patch antenna matching to a reflector was always something of a 
> kludge that worked but was not optimal.   I don’t see any point in designing 
> the unit with a patch antenna intended for short range use as there are 
> other/better products in the lineup to serve that purpose.Having a unit 
> that is optimized for the thousands of KP, Beehive, Cambium reflectors we 
> have in the field would be great.   
> 
> Having a unit with connectors that cleanly mates into a twistport horn 
> adapter would also be a useful tool in the toolbox.
> 
> If there is anything that Cambium (and every other vendor) has taught us over 
> the years is that you can’t have too much gain and directionality in your 
> client antennas.   it’s really the secret to why fixed wireless in unlicensed 
> works so well.   The 450b high gain that wasn’t high gain was disappointing.  
>  Having the option to cleanly add antenna gain again would be very welcome.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> On Oct 31, 2019, at 9:31 AM, Matt Mangriotis via AF  > wrote:
> 
> Also, to set the record a straight(er)…
>  
> The 450b Connectorized is targeted for March release. This will indeed have 
> RP-SMA connectors at the top (similar to 900 MHz SM).
>  
> The other one that you guys are talking about, I am calling 450b Retro. As 
> Jeff mentions, I am still working up a plan for this device, and don’t have a 
> release date yet. The idea is that it’ll have the latest processing power, 
> the wide band support, fit into the same offset reflectors that are already 
> out there, and be reasonably priced.
>  
> This would provide an easy upgrade or swap of the older 430 or 450 SMs that 
> are deployed already with those reflector dishes.
>  
> Matt
>  
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Kurt Fankhauser
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 12:04 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >
> Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit
>  
> 450b connectorized had SMA stye connectors on top, did not look like a 900mhz 
> SM, looked more like a RocketM5
>  
> On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:53 PM Ken Hohhof  > wrote:
> Do you remember what the connectorized 450b looked like?  SMA connectors on 
> top like the 900 MHz SM?  N pigtails out bottom like the old one?  Twistport 
> adapter?
>  
> I realize the pigtails out the bottom were not optimal, but KPP was nice 
> enough to build a dish with a place to mount the SM where the pigtails 
> dressed just perfect.  Also putting coax connectors on the top is not optimal 
> from a drip loop perspective 

[AFMUG] 450 SM lost config, feature key, and radio calibration

[Ken Hohhof]

Has anyone experienced a Cambium SM losing not just the radio calibration
data but the config and also reverting to 4 Mbps aggregate (it was bought as
a 20 Mbps unit, this wasn't even an upgrade key, although I suspect they all
start as 4 Mbps units and the factory squirts a feature key into them)?

 

This happened when a customer had a power outage, we had installed a new SM
about a week before.

 

Cambium Support is wanting a remote session so  they can telnet in and
restore the radio calibration data.  I am thinking there's a bigger problem
than the calibration data, since it lost its config and went back to factory
defaults, and also went from 20 Mbps to 4 Mbps.

 

We also several concerning log entries including "MPU violation occurred in
this build. MPU is disabled until next upgrade/downgrade" and stuff like
fatal error, illegal instruction and register out of range.

 

I'm thinking I should just bite the bullet and throw this SM away, although
it's a 3.65 SM so it wasn't cheap.

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Adam Moffett]

What is asymmetric channel freq if it's not FDD?


On 10/31/2019 1:38 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:


No fdd… CA if posible…

*From: *AF  on behalf of Adam Moffett 


*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Date: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 11:50 AM
*To: *"af@af.afmug.com" 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

So FDD and carrier aggregation?  Those are usually high priced features.

On 10/31/2019 11:45 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:

and we are at it, @Matt Mangriotis
 consider the
following for an extended life of the 450 platform:

-Asymmetric channel size configuration

-Asymmetric channel freq. configuration

-higher modulations (don’t know if HW is capable)

-fragmented channel assignment / CA Ex.= 40 mhz total split in 4
10mhz blocks (don’t know if HW is capable)

-Omni Medusa and 60/30 deg Medusa

-Vivato type PTP certification for Medusa (higher TX power)

*Gino**Villarini **
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
m:

Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo 



Image removed by sender. inc500 



Image removed by sender. fb-logo




Image removed by sender. insta-logo




Image removed by sender. in-logo




Image removed by sender. tw-logo






Image removed by sender. yt-logo




www.aeronetpr.com  | Metro Office Park
#18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968

*From: *AF 
 on behalf of Mike Hammett
 
*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Date: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 10:08 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

I think a 25 dBi antenna would be a standard customer install.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
Image removed by sender. Image
removed by sender.
Image
removed by sender.
Image
removed by sender. 
Midwest Internet Exchange 
Image removed by sender. Image
removed by sender.
Image
removed by sender. 
The Brothers WISP 
Image removed by sender.
Image removed by sender.






*From: *"Adam Moffett" 

*To: *af@af.afmug.com 
*Sent: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:05:58 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

Yesgive us all the goddamn gain.  There must be a vocal market
segment that wants small, cute antennas.  But, If you want the 32+
SNR for 256QAM then you need gain.  Gain beets cuteness for
anybody who's done the math.

On 10/31/2019 10:02 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Matt,

The original form factor product would be fantastic. It would
be even better if you make it so the internal unit antenna is
specifically designed to properly illuminate a reflector dish.

The original patch antenna matching to a reflector was always
something of a kludge that worked but was not optimal.   I
don’t see any point in designing the unit with a patch antenna
intended for short range use as there are other/better
products in the lineup to serve that purpose.    Having a unit
that is optimized for the thousands of KP, Beehive, Cambium
reflectors we have in the field would be great.

Having a unit with connectors that cleanly mates into a
twistport horn adapter would also be a useful tool in the toolbox.

If there is anything that Cambium (and every other vendor) has
taught us over the years is that you can’t have too much gain
and directionality in your client antennas.   it’s really the
secret to why fixed wireless in unlicensed works so well. The
   

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Gino A. Villarini]

No fdd… CA if posible…

From: AF  on behalf of Adam Moffett 

Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 11:50 AM
To: "af@af.afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit


So FDD and carrier aggregation?  Those are usually high priced features.


On 10/31/2019 11:45 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
and we are at it, @Matt Mangriotis 
consider the following for an extended life of the 450 platform:

-Asymmetric channel size configuration
-Asymmetric channel freq. configuration
-higher modulations (don’t know if HW is capable)
-fragmented channel assignment / CA Ex.= 40 mhz total split in 4 10mhz blocks 
(don’t know if HW is capable)
-Omni Medusa and 60/30 deg Medusa
-Vivato type PTP certification for Medusa (higher TX power)



Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
m:
[Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo]
[Image removed by sender. inc500]
[Image removed by sender. fb-logo]
[Image removed by sender. 
insta-logo]
[Image removed by sender. 
in-logo]
[Image removed by sender. 
tw-logo]
[Image removed by sender. 
yt-logo]

www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968
From: AF  on behalf of 
Mike Hammett 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Date: Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 10:08 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

I think a 25 dBi antenna would be a standard customer install.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[Image removed by sender.][Image removed by 
sender.][Image 
removed by 
sender.][Image
 removed by sender.]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[Image removed by sender.][Image removed by 
sender.][Image 
removed by sender.]
The Brothers WISP
[Image removed by sender.][Image  
 removed by sender.]




From: "Adam Moffett" 
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:05:58 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

Yesgive us all the goddamn gain.  There must be a vocal market segment that 
wants small, cute antennas.  But, If you want the 32+ SNR for 256QAM then you 
need gain.  Gain beets cuteness for anybody who's done the math.


On 10/31/2019 10:02 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
Matt,

The original form factor product would be fantastic.   It would be even better 
if you make it so the internal unit antenna is specifically designed to 
properly illuminate a reflector dish.

The original patch antenna matching to a reflector was always something of a 
kludge that worked but was not optimal.   I don’t see any point in designing 
the unit with a patch antenna intended for short range use as there are 
other/better products in the lineup to serve that purpose.Having a unit 
that is optimized for the thousands of KP, Beehive, Cambium reflectors we have 
in the field would be great.

Having a unit with connectors that cleanly mates into a twistport horn adapter 
would also be a useful tool in the toolbox.

If there is anything that Cambium (and every other vendor) has taught us over 
the years is that you can’t have too much gain and directionality in your 
client antennas.   it’s really the secret to why fixed wireless in unlicensed 
works so well.   The 450b high gain that wasn’t high gain was disappointing.   
Having the option to cleanly add antenna gain again would be very welcome.

Mark


On Oct 31, 2019, at 9:31 AM, Matt Mangriotis via AF 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

Also, to set the record a straight(er)…

The 450b Connectorized is targeted for March release. This will indeed have 
RP-SMA connectors at the top (similar to 900 MHz SM).

The other one that you guys are talking about, I am calling 450b Retro. As Jeff 
mentions, I am still working up a plan for this device, and don’t have a 
release date yet. The idea is that it’ll have the 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Adam Moffett]

So FDD and carrier aggregation?  Those are usually high priced features.


On 10/31/2019 11:45 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:


and we are at it, @Matt Mangriotis 
 consider the following 
for an extended life of the 450 platform:


-Asymmetric channel size configuration

-Asymmetric channel freq. configuration

-higher modulations (don’t know if HW is capable)

-fragmented channel assignment / CA Ex.= 40 mhz total split in 4 10mhz 
blocks (don’t know if HW is capable)


-Omni Medusa and 60/30 deg Medusa

-Vivato type PTP certification for Medusa (higher TX power)

*GinoVillarini
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
m:
aeronet-logo  	inc500 
 	fb-logo 
 	insta-logo 
 	in-logo 
 	tw-logo 
 
	yt-logo  	


www.aeronetpr.com  | Metro Office Park #18 
Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968


*From: *AF  on behalf of Mike Hammett 


*Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Date: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 10:08 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

I think a 25 dBi antenna would be a standard customer install.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
Image removed by sender. Image removed 
by sender. 
Image 
removed by sender. 
Image 
removed by sender. 

Midwest Internet Exchange 
Image removed by sender. Image 
removed by sender. 
Image 
removed by sender. 

The Brothers WISP 
Image removed by sender. 
Image removed by sender.







*From: *"Adam Moffett" 
*To: *af@af.afmug.com
*Sent: *Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:05:58 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

Yesgive us all the goddamn gain.  There must be a vocal market 
segment that wants small, cute antennas.  But, If you want the 32+ SNR 
for 256QAM then you need gain.  Gain beets cuteness for anybody who's 
done the math.


On 10/31/2019 10:02 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Matt,

The original form factor product would be fantastic. It would be
even better if you make it so the internal unit antenna is
specifically designed to properly illuminate a reflector dish.

The original patch antenna matching to a reflector was always
something of a kludge that worked but was not optimal.   I don’t
see any point in designing the unit with a patch antenna intended
for short range use as there are other/better products in the
lineup to serve that purpose.    Having a unit that is optimized
for the thousands of KP, Beehive, Cambium reflectors we have in
the field would be great.

Having a unit with connectors that cleanly mates into a twistport
horn adapter would also be a useful tool in the toolbox.

If there is anything that Cambium (and every other vendor) has
taught us over the years is that you can’t have too much gain and
directionality in your client antennas.   it’s really the secret
to why fixed wireless in unlicensed works so well.   The 450b high
gain that wasn’t high gain was disappointing.   Having the option
to cleanly add antenna gain again would be very welcome.

Mark

On Oct 31, 2019, at 9:31 AM, Matt Mangriotis via AF
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

Also, to set the record a straight(er)…

The 450b Connectorized is targeted for March release. This
will indeed have RP-SMA connectors at the top (similar to 900
MHz SM).

The other one that you guys are talking about, I am calling
450b Retro. As Jeff mentions, I am still working up a plan for
this device, and don’t have a release date yet. The idea is
that it’ll have the latest processing power, the wide band
support, fit into the same offset reflectors that are already
out there, and be reasonably priced.

This would provide an easy upgrade or swap of the older 430 or
450 SMs that are deployed already with those reflector dishes.

Matt

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Tyson Burris]

Same, we don’t care for the gain on the factory 450B HG dish.

Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

Daytime # 317-738-0320
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540
Online: www.surfici.net

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From: AF  On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 11:41 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

That is our standard, we don’t bother with any other dorm factor, just 
connectorized when we need more gain…

A feedhorn design that you can adapt to diff. size dishes would be the optimal 
CPE…  (similar to mimosa).. 1 feed + 18,24 and 36” dishes…


Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
m:
[aeronet-logo]
[inc500]
[fb-logo]
[insta-logo]
[in-logo]
[tw-logo]
[yt-logo]

www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of 
Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>>
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Date: Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 10:08 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

I think a 25 dBi antenna would be a standard customer install.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[Image removed by sender.][Image removed by 
sender.][Image 
removed by 
sender.][Image
 removed by sender.]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[Image removed by sender.][Image removed by 
sender.][Image 
removed by sender.]
The Brothers WISP
[Image removed by sender.][Image 
removed by sender.]




From: "Adam Moffett" mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:05:58 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

Yesgive us all the goddamn gain.  There must be a vocal market segment that 
wants small, cute antennas.  But, If you want the 32+ SNR for 256QAM then you 
need gain.  Gain beets cuteness for anybody who's done the math.


On 10/31/2019 10:02 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
Matt,

The original form factor product would be fantastic.   It would be even better 
if you make it so the internal unit antenna is specifically designed to 
properly illuminate a reflector dish.

The original patch antenna matching to a reflector was always something of a 
kludge that worked but was not optimal.   I don’t see any point in designing 
the unit with a patch antenna intended for short range use as there are 
other/better products in the lineup to serve that purpose.Having a unit 
that is optimized for the thousands of KP, Beehive, Cambium reflectors we have 
in the field would be great.

Having a unit with connectors that cleanly mates into a twistport horn adapter 
would also be a useful tool in the toolbox.

If there is anything that Cambium (and every other vendor) has taught us over 
the years is that you can’t have too much gain and directionality in your 
client antennas.   it’s really the secret to why fixed wireless in unlicensed 
works so well.   The 450b high gain that wasn’t high gain was disappointing.   
Having the option to cleanly add antenna gain again would be very welcome.

Mark


On Oct 31, 2019, at 9:31 AM, Matt Mangriotis via AF 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

Also, to set the record a straight(er)…

The 450b Connectorized is targeted for March release. This will indeed have 
RP-SMA connectors at the top (similar to 900 MHz SM).

The other one that you guys are talking about, I am calling 450b Retro. As Jeff 
mentions, I am still working up a plan for this device, and don’t 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Gino A. Villarini]

and we are at it, @Matt Mangriotis 
consider the following for an extended life of the 450 platform:

-Asymmetric channel size configuration
-Asymmetric channel freq. configuration
-higher modulations (don’t know if HW is capable)
-fragmented channel assignment / CA Ex.= 40 mhz total split in 4 10mhz blocks 
(don’t know if HW is capable)
-Omni Medusa and 60/30 deg Medusa
-Vivato type PTP certification for Medusa (higher TX power)



Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
m:
[https://image.ibb.co/ctQ7jU/aeronet-logo.png]   
[https://image.ibb.co/noQeyp/inc500.png]   
[https://image.ibb.co/e4pBB9/fb-logo.png]  
[https://image.ibb.co/nxuuW9/insta-logo.png] 
   
[https://image.ibb.co/jhSEW9/in-logo.png] 
 
[https://image.ibb.co/dqqq4U/tw-logo.png] 

[https://image.ibb.co/bAJcjU/yt-logo.png] 

www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968
From: AF  on behalf of Mike Hammett 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 10:08 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

I think a 25 dBi antenna would be a standard customer install.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[cid:~WRD177.jpg][cid:~WRD177.jpg][cid:~WRD177.jpg][cid:~WRD177.jpg]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[cid:~WRD177.jpg][cid:~WRD177.jpg][cid:~WRD177.jpg]
The Brothers WISP
[cid:~WRD177.jpg][cid:~WRD177.jpg]




From: "Adam Moffett" 
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:05:58 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

Yesgive us all the goddamn gain.  There must be a vocal market segment that 
wants small, cute antennas.  But, If you want the 32+ SNR for 256QAM then you 
need gain.  Gain beets cuteness for anybody who's done the math.


On 10/31/2019 10:02 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
Matt,

The original form factor product would be fantastic.   It would be even better 
if you make it so the internal unit antenna is specifically designed to 
properly illuminate a reflector dish.

The original patch antenna matching to a reflector was always something of a 
kludge that worked but was not optimal.   I don’t see any point in designing 
the unit with a patch antenna intended for short range use as there are 
other/better products in the lineup to serve that purpose.Having a unit 
that is optimized for the thousands of KP, Beehive, Cambium reflectors we have 
in the field would be great.

Having a unit with connectors that cleanly mates into a twistport horn adapter 
would also be a useful tool in the toolbox.

If there is anything that Cambium (and every other vendor) has taught us over 
the years is that you can’t have too much gain and directionality in your 
client antennas.   it’s really the secret to why fixed wireless in unlicensed 
works so well.   The 450b high gain that wasn’t high gain was disappointing.   
Having the option to cleanly add antenna gain again would be very welcome.

Mark


On Oct 31, 2019, at 9:31 AM, Matt Mangriotis via AF 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

Also, to set the record a straight(er)…

The 450b Connectorized is targeted for March release. This will indeed have 
RP-SMA connectors at the top (similar to 900 MHz SM).

The other one that you guys are talking about, I am calling 450b Retro. As Jeff 
mentions, I am still working up a plan for this device, and don’t have a 
release date yet. The idea is that it’ll have the latest processing power, the 
wide band support, fit into the same offset reflectors that are already out 
there, and be reasonably priced.

This would provide an easy upgrade or swap of the older 430 or 450 SMs that are 
deployed already with those reflector dishes.

Matt

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

450b connectorized had SMA stye 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Gino A. Villarini]

That is our standard, we don’t bother with any other dorm factor, just 
connectorized when we need more gain…

A feedhorn design that you can adapt to diff. size dishes would be the optimal 
CPE…  (similar to mimosa).. 1 feed + 18,24 and 36” dishes…


Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
m:
[https://image.ibb.co/ctQ7jU/aeronet-logo.png]   
[https://image.ibb.co/noQeyp/inc500.png]   
[https://image.ibb.co/e4pBB9/fb-logo.png]  
[https://image.ibb.co/nxuuW9/insta-logo.png] 
   
[https://image.ibb.co/jhSEW9/in-logo.png] 
 
[https://image.ibb.co/dqqq4U/tw-logo.png] 

[https://image.ibb.co/bAJcjU/yt-logo.png] 

www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968
From: AF  on behalf of Mike Hammett 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 10:08 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

I think a 25 dBi antenna would be a standard customer install.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[cid:~WRD343.jpg][cid:~WRD343.jpg][cid:~WRD343.jpg][cid:~WRD343.jpg]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[cid:~WRD343.jpg][cid:~WRD343.jpg][cid:~WRD343.jpg]
The Brothers WISP
[cid:~WRD343.jpg][cid:~WRD343.jpg]




From: "Adam Moffett" 
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:05:58 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

Yesgive us all the goddamn gain.  There must be a vocal market segment that 
wants small, cute antennas.  But, If you want the 32+ SNR for 256QAM then you 
need gain.  Gain beets cuteness for anybody who's done the math.


On 10/31/2019 10:02 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
Matt,

The original form factor product would be fantastic.   It would be even better 
if you make it so the internal unit antenna is specifically designed to 
properly illuminate a reflector dish.

The original patch antenna matching to a reflector was always something of a 
kludge that worked but was not optimal.   I don’t see any point in designing 
the unit with a patch antenna intended for short range use as there are 
other/better products in the lineup to serve that purpose.Having a unit 
that is optimized for the thousands of KP, Beehive, Cambium reflectors we have 
in the field would be great.

Having a unit with connectors that cleanly mates into a twistport horn adapter 
would also be a useful tool in the toolbox.

If there is anything that Cambium (and every other vendor) has taught us over 
the years is that you can’t have too much gain and directionality in your 
client antennas.   it’s really the secret to why fixed wireless in unlicensed 
works so well.   The 450b high gain that wasn’t high gain was disappointing.   
Having the option to cleanly add antenna gain again would be very welcome.

Mark


On Oct 31, 2019, at 9:31 AM, Matt Mangriotis via AF 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

Also, to set the record a straight(er)…

The 450b Connectorized is targeted for March release. This will indeed have 
RP-SMA connectors at the top (similar to 900 MHz SM).

The other one that you guys are talking about, I am calling 450b Retro. As Jeff 
mentions, I am still working up a plan for this device, and don’t have a 
release date yet. The idea is that it’ll have the latest processing power, the 
wide band support, fit into the same offset reflectors that are already out 
there, and be reasonably priced.

This would provide an easy upgrade or swap of the older 430 or 450 SMs that are 
deployed already with those reflector dishes.

Matt

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

450b connectorized had SMA stye connectors on top, did not look like a 900mhz 
SM, looked more like a RocketM5

On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:53 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Do you remember what the connectorized 450b looked like?  SMA connectors 

Re: [AFMUG] Equipment alarm relays

[Adam Moffett]

The carrier switches and backhauls always have them though.  See Adtran, 
Ceragon, etc.  Someone uses them.


All I can imagine is maybe you have a cellular or serial packet radio 
that can send you the alarms even if you lose connectivity. Or maybe 
it's just an organizational momentum thing.  You already have all this 
SCADA/modbus stuff already so you keep using it.


-Adam


On 10/31/2019 2:35 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
I'm not sure why you'd bother with a switch or BH if it has SNMP.   I 
know most of my customers who monitor contacts are monitoring things 
they can't poll via SNMP because it doesn't support it.


-forrest

On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 3:10 PM Adam Moffett > wrote:


Who monitors alarm relays on network equipment like switches and
backhauls?  Can you explain why you'd do that over SNMP?

I feel like you'd have to have a separate out of band network to
carry
the alarms in order for that to have any benefit.but maybe if
you're
Verizon that's not a problem.   Am I off base on this?



-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
- Forrest

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Mike Hammett]

I think a 25 dBi antenna would be a standard customer install. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Adam Moffett"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:05:58 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit 


Yesgive us all the goddamn gain. There must be a vocal market segment that 
wants small, cute antennas. But, If you want the 32+ SNR for 256QAM then you 
need gain. Gain beets cuteness for anybody who's done the math. 


On 10/31/2019 10:02 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote: 


Matt, 


The original form factor product would be fantastic. It would be even better if 
you make it so the internal unit antenna is specifically designed to properly 
illuminate a reflector dish. 


The original patch antenna matching to a reflector was always something of a 
kludge that worked but was not optimal. I don’t see any point in designing the 
unit with a patch antenna intended for short range use as there are 
other/better products in the lineup to serve that purpose. Having a unit that 
is optimized for the thousands of KP, Beehive, Cambium reflectors we have in 
the field would be great. 


Having a unit with connectors that cleanly mates into a twistport horn adapter 
would also be a useful tool in the toolbox. 


If there is anything that Cambium (and every other vendor) has taught us over 
the years is that you can’t have too much gain and directionality in your 
client antennas. it’s really the secret to why fixed wireless in unlicensed 
works so well. The 450b high gain that wasn’t high gain was disappointing. 
Having the option to cleanly add antenna gain again would be very welcome. 


Mark 






On Oct 31, 2019, at 9:31 AM, Matt Mangriotis via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 




Also, to set the record a straight(er)… 

The 450b Connectorized is targeted for March release. This will indeed have 
RP-SMA connectors at the top (similar to 900 MHz SM). 

The other one that you guys are talking about, I am calling 450b Retro. As Jeff 
mentions, I am still working up a plan for this device, and don’t have a 
release date yet. The idea is that it’ll have the latest processing power, the 
wide band support, fit into the same offset reflectors that are already out 
there, and be reasonably priced. 

This would provide an easy upgrade or swap of the older 430 or 450 SMs that are 
deployed already with those reflector dishes. 

Matt 

From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 12:04 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit 


450b connectorized had SMA stye connectors on top, did not look like a 900mhz 
SM, looked more like a RocketM5 



On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:53 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




Do you remember what the connectorized 450b looked like? SMA connectors on top 
like the 900 MHz SM? N pigtails out bottom like the old one? Twistport adapter? 

I realize the pigtails out the bottom were not optimal, but KPP was nice enough 
to build a dish with a place to mount the SM where the pigtails dressed just 
perfect. Also putting coax connectors on the top is not optimal from a drip 
loop perspective and SMA connectors are a pain to waterproof unless you believe 
in the silicone boots which aren’t conducive to third party or custom length 
coax jumpers. 




From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:39 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit 

I asked him right after I saw you post about it. 

Jeff Broadwick 

CTIconnect 

312-205-2519 Office 

574-220-7826 Cell 

jbroadw...@cticonnect.com 




On Oct 30, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Kurt Fankhauser < lists.wavel...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 







Matt told me at Wispalooza show old form factor SM is coming spring 2020. Also 
at Wispalooza show they had a new SM there that was containerized and triband 
for like $250'ish !!! 



On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:09 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




I thought someone posted that Matt said the old form factor was coming Q1 2020. 

Not sure that’s actually different - until I can buy it, it’s pretty much in 
“we are considering it” phase. 

Thing is, 5 GHz 450 SMs took a step back with the 450b, we no longer have a 
connectorized SM or one that we can use with a reflector dish, and many of us 
have encountered performance problems with the integrated antenna in the 450b 
high gain. And even if we acquire more of the EOL 450 SMs, they lack the CPU, 
triband capability, and xmt power of the 450b. 

Back on topic to the 450i Lite AP, we have some of the old 450 Lite APs. If we 
haven’t already applied a key to make them into Full APs, I generally prefer to 
replace them with a 450i AP. It’s 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Adam Moffett]

Yesgive us all the goddamn gain.  There must be a vocal market 
segment that wants small, cute antennas.  But, If you want the 32+ SNR 
for 256QAM then you need gain.  Gain beets cuteness for anybody who's 
done the math.



On 10/31/2019 10:02 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Matt,

The original form factor product would be fantastic.   It would be 
even better if you make it so the internal unit antenna is 
specifically designed to properly illuminate a reflector dish.


The original patch antenna matching to a reflector was always 
something of a kludge that worked but was not optimal.   I don’t see 
any point in designing the unit with a patch antenna intended for 
short range use as there are other/better products in the lineup to 
serve that purpose.  Having a unit that is optimized for the thousands 
of KP, Beehive, Cambium reflectors we have in the field would be great.


Having a unit with connectors that cleanly mates into a twistport horn 
adapter would also be a useful tool in the toolbox.


If there is anything that Cambium (and every other vendor) has taught 
us over the years is that you can’t have too much gain and 
directionality in your client antennas.   it’s really the secret to 
why fixed wireless in unlicensed works so well.   The 450b high gain 
that wasn’t high gain was disappointing.   Having the option to 
cleanly add antenna gain again would be very welcome.


Mark


On Oct 31, 2019, at 9:31 AM, Matt Mangriotis via AF > wrote:


Also, to set the record a straight(er)…

The 450b Connectorized is targeted for March release. This will 
indeed have RP-SMA connectors at the top (similar to 900 MHz SM).


The other one that you guys are talking about, I am calling 450b 
Retro. As Jeff mentions, I am still working up a plan for this 
device, and don’t have a release date yet. The idea is that it’ll 
have the latest processing power, the wide band support, fit into the 
same offset reflectors that are already out there, and be reasonably 
priced.


This would provide an easy upgrade or swap of the older 430 or 450 
SMs that are deployed already with those reflector dishes.


Matt

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> 
*On Behalf Of * Kurt Fankhauser

*Sent:* Wednesday, October 30, 2019 12:04 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Subject:* [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

450b connectorized had SMA stye connectors on top, did not look like 
a 900mhz SM, looked more like a RocketM5


On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:53 PM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Do you remember what the connectorized 450b looked like?  SMA
connectors on top like the 900 MHz SM?  N pigtails out bottom
like the old one?  Twistport adapter?

I realize the pigtails out the bottom were not optimal, but KPP
was nice enough to build a dish with a place to mount the SM
where the pigtails dressed just perfect.  Also putting coax
connectors on the top is not optimal from a drip loop perspective
and SMA connectors are a pain to waterproof unless you believe in
the silicone boots which aren’t conducive to third party or
custom length coax jumpers.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Jeff Broadwick -
Lists
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:39 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

I asked him right after I saw you post about it.

Jeff Broadwick

CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office

574-220-7826 Cell

jbroadw...@cticonnect.com 

On Oct 30, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Kurt Fankhauser
mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>>
wrote:



Matt told me at Wispalooza show old form factor SM is coming
spring 2020. Also at Wispalooza show they had a new SM there
that was containerized and triband for like $250'ish !!!

On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:09 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

I thought someone posted that Matt said the old form
factor was coming Q1 2020.

Not sure that’s actually different - until I can buy it,
it’s pretty much in “we are considering it” phase.

Thing is, 5 GHz 450 SMs took a step back with the 450b,
we no longer have a connectorized SM or one that we can
use with a reflector dish, and many of us have
encountered performance problems with the integrated
antenna in the 450b high gain.  And even if we acquire
more of the EOL 450 SMs, they lack the CPU, triband
capability, and xmt power of the 450b.

Back on topic to the 450i Lite AP, we have some of the
old 450 Lite APs.  If we haven’t already applied a key to
make them into Full APs, I generally prefer to replace
them with 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Mark Radabaugh]

Matt,

The original form factor product would be fantastic.   It would be even better 
if you make it so the internal unit antenna is specifically designed to 
properly illuminate a reflector dish.  

The original patch antenna matching to a reflector was always something of a 
kludge that worked but was not optimal.   I don’t see any point in designing 
the unit with a patch antenna intended for short range use as there are 
other/better products in the lineup to serve that purpose.Having a unit 
that is optimized for the thousands of KP, Beehive, Cambium reflectors we have 
in the field would be great.   

Having a unit with connectors that cleanly mates into a twistport horn adapter 
would also be a useful tool in the toolbox.

If there is anything that Cambium (and every other vendor) has taught us over 
the years is that you can’t have too much gain and directionality in your 
client antennas.   it’s really the secret to why fixed wireless in unlicensed 
works so well.   The 450b high gain that wasn’t high gain was disappointing.   
Having the option to cleanly add antenna gain again would be very welcome.

Mark


> On Oct 31, 2019, at 9:31 AM, Matt Mangriotis via AF  wrote:
> 
> Also, to set the record a straight(er)…
>  
> The 450b Connectorized is targeted for March release. This will indeed have 
> RP-SMA connectors at the top (similar to 900 MHz SM).
>  
> The other one that you guys are talking about, I am calling 450b Retro. As 
> Jeff mentions, I am still working up a plan for this device, and don’t have a 
> release date yet. The idea is that it’ll have the latest processing power, 
> the wide band support, fit into the same offset reflectors that are already 
> out there, and be reasonably priced.
>  
> This would provide an easy upgrade or swap of the older 430 or 450 SMs that 
> are deployed already with those reflector dishes.
>  
> Matt
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 12:04 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit
>  
> 450b connectorized had SMA stye connectors on top, did not look like a 900mhz 
> SM, looked more like a RocketM5
>  
> On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:53 PM Ken Hohhof  > wrote:
> Do you remember what the connectorized 450b looked like?  SMA connectors on 
> top like the 900 MHz SM?  N pigtails out bottom like the old one?  Twistport 
> adapter?
>  
> I realize the pigtails out the bottom were not optimal, but KPP was nice 
> enough to build a dish with a place to mount the SM where the pigtails 
> dressed just perfect.  Also putting coax connectors on the top is not optimal 
> from a drip loop perspective and SMA connectors are a pain to waterproof 
> unless you believe in the silicone boots which aren’t conducive to third 
> party or custom length coax jumpers.
>  
>  
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Jeff Broadwick - Lists
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:39 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit
>  
> I asked him right after I saw you post about it.
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com 
>  
> 
> On Oct 30, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  > wrote:
> 
> 
> Matt told me at Wispalooza show old form factor SM is coming spring 2020. 
> Also at Wispalooza show they had a new SM there that was containerized and 
> triband for like $250'ish !!!
>  
> On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:09 PM Ken Hohhof  > wrote:
> I thought someone posted that Matt said the old form factor was coming Q1 
> 2020.
>  
> Not sure that’s actually different - until I can buy it, it’s pretty much in 
> “we are considering it” phase.
>  
> Thing is, 5 GHz 450 SMs took a step back with the 450b, we no longer have a 
> connectorized SM or one that we can use with a reflector dish, and many of us 
> have encountered performance problems with the integrated antenna in the 450b 
> high gain.  And even if we acquire more of the EOL 450 SMs, they lack the 
> CPU, triband capability, and xmt power of the 450b.
>  
> Back on topic to the 450i Lite AP, we have some of the old 450 Lite APs.  If 
> we haven’t already applied a key to make them into Full APs, I generally 
> prefer to replace them with a 450i AP.  It’s just so confusing having a mix 
> of 24V and 48V powering, Canopy Sync and Cambium Sync, plus the 450i has a 
> more capable CPU.  So you could look at that as an advantage of the Lite, you 
> can upgrade the HW in the future instead of buying an upgrade key.
>  
>  
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Jeff Broadwick - Lists
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 10:48 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Craig Schmaderer]

Yes, that should have happened from day one.  Please make this happen now…

From: AF  On Behalf Of Tyson Burris
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 8:38 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

Matt-

That needs to happen now rather then later.  Just saying…


Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

Daytime # 317-738-0320
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540
Online: www.surfici.net

[ICI]
What can ICI do for you?

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the
addressee shown. It contains information that is
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly
prohibited.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Matt Mangriotis via AF
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:32 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Cc: Matt Mangriotis 
mailto:matt.mangrio...@cambiumnetworks.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

Also, to set the record a straight(er)…

The 450b Connectorized is targeted for March release. This will indeed have 
RP-SMA connectors at the top (similar to 900 MHz SM).

The other one that you guys are talking about, I am calling 450b Retro. As Jeff 
mentions, I am still working up a plan for this device, and don’t have a 
release date yet. The idea is that it’ll have the latest processing power, the 
wide band support, fit into the same offset reflectors that are already out 
there, and be reasonably priced.

This would provide an easy upgrade or swap of the older 430 or 450 SMs that are 
deployed already with those reflector dishes.

Matt

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

450b connectorized had SMA stye connectors on top, did not look like a 900mhz 
SM, looked more like a RocketM5

On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:53 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Do you remember what the connectorized 450b looked like?  SMA connectors on top 
like the 900 MHz SM?  N pigtails out bottom like the old one?  Twistport 
adapter?

I realize the pigtails out the bottom were not optimal, but KPP was nice enough 
to build a dish with a place to mount the SM where the pigtails dressed just 
perfect.  Also putting coax connectors on the top is not optimal from a drip 
loop perspective and SMA connectors are a pain to waterproof unless you believe 
in the silicone boots which aren’t conducive to third party or custom length 
coax jumpers.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Jeff Broadwick - Lists
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:39 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

I asked him right after I saw you post about it.
Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Oct 30, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Matt told me at Wispalooza show old form factor SM is coming spring 2020. Also 
at Wispalooza show they had a new SM there that was containerized and triband 
for like $250'ish !!!

On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:09 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
I thought someone posted that Matt said the old form factor was coming Q1 2020.

Not sure that’s actually different - until I can buy it, it’s pretty much in 
“we are considering it” phase.

Thing is, 5 GHz 450 SMs took a step back with the 450b, we no longer have a 
connectorized SM or one that we can use with a reflector dish, and many of us 
have encountered performance problems with the integrated antenna in the 450b 
high gain.  And even if we acquire more of the EOL 450 SMs, they lack the CPU, 
triband capability, and xmt power of the 450b.

Back on topic to the 450i Lite AP, we have some of the old 450 Lite APs.  If we 
haven’t already applied a key to make them into Full APs, I generally prefer to 
replace them with a 450i AP.  It’s just so confusing having a mix of 24V and 
48V powering, Canopy Sync and Cambium Sync, plus the 450i has a more capable 
CPU.  So you could look at that as an advantage of the Lite, you can upgrade 
the HW in the future instead of buying an upgrade key.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Jeff Broadwick - Lists
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 10:48 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

To be clear, the 5GHz 450b exists.  The 3GHz high gain is now slated for 1st 
qtr2020.

I asked 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Tyson Burris]

I fully agree Kurt.  We would touch the lite if it is limited with such a short 
range.
And yes, we are buying up 450 SM’s through the gray market.  (new but much 
cheaper)

Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

Daytime # 317-738-0320
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540
Online: www.surfici.net

[ICI]
What can ICI do for you?

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the
addressee shown. It contains information that is
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly
prohibited.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:41 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

Matt is 450i-LITE going to have the same 2 mile max distance restriction as the 
MicroPOP? If not that is still a good reason to have the LITE around in 
addition to be able to afford to fully sectorize a tower from day 1 instead of 
starting out with a omni like we have been doing. Because of the increased 
noise on 5ghz we are seeing more situations where we have to sectorize from day 
1 versus years ago we could have got by with the omni.

Also I pray that you release the 450 retro design. I have actually been buying 
used 450 just to stay away from the new 450b design but eventually there will 
be no more used 450 to buy which i am dreading that day if there is no retro 
released.

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 9:32 AM Matt Mangriotis via AF 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:
Also, to set the record a straight(er)…

The 450b Connectorized is targeted for March release. This will indeed have 
RP-SMA connectors at the top (similar to 900 MHz SM).

The other one that you guys are talking about, I am calling 450b Retro. As Jeff 
mentions, I am still working up a plan for this device, and don’t have a 
release date yet. The idea is that it’ll have the latest processing power, the 
wide band support, fit into the same offset reflectors that are already out 
there, and be reasonably priced.

This would provide an easy upgrade or swap of the older 430 or 450 SMs that are 
deployed already with those reflector dishes.

Matt

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

450b connectorized had SMA stye connectors on top, did not look like a 900mhz 
SM, looked more like a RocketM5

On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:53 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Do you remember what the connectorized 450b looked like?  SMA connectors on top 
like the 900 MHz SM?  N pigtails out bottom like the old one?  Twistport 
adapter?

I realize the pigtails out the bottom were not optimal, but KPP was nice enough 
to build a dish with a place to mount the SM where the pigtails dressed just 
perfect.  Also putting coax connectors on the top is not optimal from a drip 
loop perspective and SMA connectors are a pain to waterproof unless you believe 
in the silicone boots which aren’t conducive to third party or custom length 
coax jumpers.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Jeff Broadwick - Lists
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:39 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

I asked him right after I saw you post about it.
Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Oct 30, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Matt told me at Wispalooza show old form factor SM is coming spring 2020. Also 
at Wispalooza show they had a new SM there that was containerized and triband 
for like $250'ish !!!

On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:09 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
I thought someone posted that Matt said the old form factor was coming Q1 2020.

Not sure that’s actually different - until I can buy it, it’s pretty much in 
“we are considering it” phase.

Thing is, 5 GHz 450 SMs took a step back with the 450b, we no longer have a 
connectorized SM or one that we can use with a reflector dish, and many of us 
have encountered performance problems with the integrated antenna in the 450b 
high gain.  And even if we acquire more of the EOL 450 SMs, they lack the CPU, 
triband capability, and xmt power of the 450b.

Back on topic to the 450i Lite AP, we have some of the old 450 Lite APs.  If we 
haven’t already applied a key to make them into Full APs, I generally prefer to 
replace them with a 450i AP.  It’s just so confusing having a mix of 24V and 
48V powering, Canopy Sync and Cambium Sync, 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Matt is 450i-LITE going to have the same 2 mile max distance restriction as
the MicroPOP? If not that is still a good reason to have the LITE around in
addition to be able to afford to fully sectorize a tower from day 1 instead
of starting out with a omni like we have been doing. Because of the
increased noise on 5ghz we are seeing more situations where we have to
sectorize from day 1 versus years ago we could have got by with the omni.

Also I pray that you release the 450 retro design. I have actually been
buying used 450 just to stay away from the new 450b design but eventually
there will be no more used 450 to buy which i am dreading that day if there
is no retro released.

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 9:32 AM Matt Mangriotis via AF 
wrote:

> Also, to set the record a straight(er)…
>
>
>
> The 450b Connectorized is targeted for March release. This will indeed
> have RP-SMA connectors at the top (similar to 900 MHz SM).
>
>
>
> The other one that you guys are talking about, I am calling 450b Retro. As
> Jeff mentions, I am still working up a plan for this device, and don’t have
> a release date yet. The idea is that it’ll have the latest processing
> power, the wide band support, fit into the same offset reflectors that are
> already out there, and be reasonably priced.
>
>
>
> This would provide an easy upgrade or swap of the older 430 or 450 SMs
> that are deployed already with those reflector dishes.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Kurt Fankhauser
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 30, 2019 12:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit
>
>
>
> 450b connectorized had SMA stye connectors on top, did not look like a
> 900mhz SM, looked more like a RocketM5
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:53 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Do you remember what the connectorized 450b looked like?  SMA connectors
> on top like the 900 MHz SM?  N pigtails out bottom like the old one?
> Twistport adapter?
>
>
>
> I realize the pigtails out the bottom were not optimal, but KPP was nice
> enough to build a dish with a place to mount the SM where the pigtails
> dressed just perfect.  Also putting coax connectors on the top is not
> optimal from a drip loop perspective and SMA connectors are a pain to
> waterproof unless you believe in the silicone boots which aren’t conducive
> to third party or custom length coax jumpers.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jeff Broadwick - Lists
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:39 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit
>
>
>
> I asked him right after I saw you post about it.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
>
> CTIconnect
>
> 312-205-2519 Office
>
> 574-220-7826 Cell
>
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
>
>
> On Oct 30, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Matt told me at Wispalooza show old form factor SM is coming spring 2020.
> Also at Wispalooza show they had a new SM there that was containerized and
> triband for like $250'ish !!!
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:09 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> I thought someone posted that Matt said the old form factor was coming Q1
> 2020.
>
>
>
> Not sure that’s actually different - until I can buy it, it’s pretty much
> in “we are considering it” phase.
>
>
>
> Thing is, 5 GHz 450 SMs took a step back with the 450b, we no longer have
> a connectorized SM or one that we can use with a reflector dish, and many
> of us have encountered performance problems with the integrated antenna in
> the 450b high gain.  And even if we acquire more of the EOL 450 SMs, they
> lack the CPU, triband capability, and xmt power of the 450b.
>
>
>
> Back on topic to the 450i Lite AP, we have some of the old 450 Lite APs.
> If we haven’t already applied a key to make them into Full APs, I generally
> prefer to replace them with a 450i AP.  It’s just so confusing having a mix
> of 24V and 48V powering, Canopy Sync and Cambium Sync, plus the 450i has a
> more capable CPU.  So you could look at that as an advantage of the Lite,
> you can upgrade the HW in the future instead of buying an upgrade key.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jeff Broadwick - Lists
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 30, 2019 10:48 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit
>
>
>
> To be clear, the 5GHz 450b exists.  The 3GHz high gain is now slated for
> 1st qtr2020.
>
>
>
> I asked CambiumMatt about bringing back the old form factor to use with
> reflectors.  That’s in the “we are considering it” phase.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
>
> CTIconnect
>
> 312-205-2519 Office
>
> 574-220-7826 Cell
>
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
>
>
> On Oct 30, 2019, at 9:53 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 
>
> 450b high gain exists now, I think what is supposed to be coming is a
> connectorized 450b and a 450b in the old form factor that takes a reflector
> dish.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Tyson Burris
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 30, 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Tyson Burris]

Matt-

That needs to happen now rather then later.  Just saying…


Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

Daytime # 317-738-0320
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540
Online: www.surfici.net

[ICI]
What can ICI do for you?

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the
addressee shown. It contains information that is
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly
prohibited.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Mangriotis via AF
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:32 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Matt Mangriotis 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

Also, to set the record a straight(er)…

The 450b Connectorized is targeted for March release. This will indeed have 
RP-SMA connectors at the top (similar to 900 MHz SM).

The other one that you guys are talking about, I am calling 450b Retro. As Jeff 
mentions, I am still working up a plan for this device, and don’t have a 
release date yet. The idea is that it’ll have the latest processing power, the 
wide band support, fit into the same offset reflectors that are already out 
there, and be reasonably priced.

This would provide an easy upgrade or swap of the older 430 or 450 SMs that are 
deployed already with those reflector dishes.

Matt

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

450b connectorized had SMA stye connectors on top, did not look like a 900mhz 
SM, looked more like a RocketM5

On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:53 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Do you remember what the connectorized 450b looked like?  SMA connectors on top 
like the 900 MHz SM?  N pigtails out bottom like the old one?  Twistport 
adapter?

I realize the pigtails out the bottom were not optimal, but KPP was nice enough 
to build a dish with a place to mount the SM where the pigtails dressed just 
perfect.  Also putting coax connectors on the top is not optimal from a drip 
loop perspective and SMA connectors are a pain to waterproof unless you believe 
in the silicone boots which aren’t conducive to third party or custom length 
coax jumpers.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Jeff Broadwick - Lists
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:39 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

I asked him right after I saw you post about it.
Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Oct 30, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Matt told me at Wispalooza show old form factor SM is coming spring 2020. Also 
at Wispalooza show they had a new SM there that was containerized and triband 
for like $250'ish !!!

On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:09 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
I thought someone posted that Matt said the old form factor was coming Q1 2020.

Not sure that’s actually different - until I can buy it, it’s pretty much in 
“we are considering it” phase.

Thing is, 5 GHz 450 SMs took a step back with the 450b, we no longer have a 
connectorized SM or one that we can use with a reflector dish, and many of us 
have encountered performance problems with the integrated antenna in the 450b 
high gain.  And even if we acquire more of the EOL 450 SMs, they lack the CPU, 
triband capability, and xmt power of the 450b.

Back on topic to the 450i Lite AP, we have some of the old 450 Lite APs.  If we 
haven’t already applied a key to make them into Full APs, I generally prefer to 
replace them with a 450i AP.  It’s just so confusing having a mix of 24V and 
48V powering, Canopy Sync and Cambium Sync, plus the 450i has a more capable 
CPU.  So you could look at that as an advantage of the Lite, you can upgrade 
the HW in the future instead of buying an upgrade key.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Jeff Broadwick - Lists
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 10:48 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

To be clear, the 5GHz 450b exists.  The 3GHz high gain is now slated for 1st 
qtr2020.

I asked CambiumMatt about bringing back the old form factor to use with 
reflectors.  That’s in the “we are considering it” phase.
Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Oct 30, 2019, at 9:53 AM, Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

450b high gain exists now, I think what 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Matt Mangriotis via AF]

Also, to set the record a straight(er)…

The 450b Connectorized is targeted for March release. This will indeed have 
RP-SMA connectors at the top (similar to 900 MHz SM).

The other one that you guys are talking about, I am calling 450b Retro. As Jeff 
mentions, I am still working up a plan for this device, and don’t have a 
release date yet. The idea is that it’ll have the latest processing power, the 
wide band support, fit into the same offset reflectors that are already out 
there, and be reasonably priced.

This would provide an easy upgrade or swap of the older 430 or 450 SMs that are 
deployed already with those reflector dishes.

Matt

From: AF  On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

450b connectorized had SMA stye connectors on top, did not look like a 900mhz 
SM, looked more like a RocketM5

On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:53 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Do you remember what the connectorized 450b looked like?  SMA connectors on top 
like the 900 MHz SM?  N pigtails out bottom like the old one?  Twistport 
adapter?

I realize the pigtails out the bottom were not optimal, but KPP was nice enough 
to build a dish with a place to mount the SM where the pigtails dressed just 
perfect.  Also putting coax connectors on the top is not optimal from a drip 
loop perspective and SMA connectors are a pain to waterproof unless you believe 
in the silicone boots which aren’t conducive to third party or custom length 
coax jumpers.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Jeff Broadwick - Lists
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 11:39 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

I asked him right after I saw you post about it.
Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Oct 30, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Matt told me at Wispalooza show old form factor SM is coming spring 2020. Also 
at Wispalooza show they had a new SM there that was containerized and triband 
for like $250'ish !!!

On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 12:09 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
I thought someone posted that Matt said the old form factor was coming Q1 2020.

Not sure that’s actually different - until I can buy it, it’s pretty much in 
“we are considering it” phase.

Thing is, 5 GHz 450 SMs took a step back with the 450b, we no longer have a 
connectorized SM or one that we can use with a reflector dish, and many of us 
have encountered performance problems with the integrated antenna in the 450b 
high gain.  And even if we acquire more of the EOL 450 SMs, they lack the CPU, 
triband capability, and xmt power of the 450b.

Back on topic to the 450i Lite AP, we have some of the old 450 Lite APs.  If we 
haven’t already applied a key to make them into Full APs, I generally prefer to 
replace them with a 450i AP.  It’s just so confusing having a mix of 24V and 
48V powering, Canopy Sync and Cambium Sync, plus the 450i has a more capable 
CPU.  So you could look at that as an advantage of the Lite, you can upgrade 
the HW in the future instead of buying an upgrade key.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Jeff Broadwick - Lists
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 10:48 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

To be clear, the 5GHz 450b exists.  The 3GHz high gain is now slated for 1st 
qtr2020.

I asked CambiumMatt about bringing back the old form factor to use with 
reflectors.  That’s in the “we are considering it” phase.
Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Oct 30, 2019, at 9:53 AM, Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

450b high gain exists now, I think what is supposed to be coming is a 
connectorized 450b and a 450b in the old form factor that takes a reflector 
dish.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Tyson Burris
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 8:07 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

The lite was announced and I believe the 450B high gain sm will be coming out.
(actual SM)

Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

Daytime # 317-738-0320
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540
Online: 
www.surfici.net


What can ICI do for you?

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - 

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

[Matt Mangriotis via AF]

Really the only reason I released the Lite 450i is because I couldn’t get the 
MicroPoP out soon enough…

If we had the MicroPoP out, I would not even have done this. I think that 
MicroPoP is a cool little product that can really help to “fill the gaps” in a 
network, at a reasonable price.

Matt

From: AF  On Behalf Of Tyson Burris
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 8:07 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

The lite was announced and I believe the 450B high gain sm will be coming out.
(actual SM)

Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

Daytime # 317-738-0320
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540
Online: 
www.surfici.net

[ICI]
What can ICI do for you?

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.

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From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 4:41 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

To make more money comrade.

From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 8:55 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450i LITE AP - 20 SM limit

I mean. I guess? To me that just shouts of going back to license keys.

If I can buy it for X, but I can upgrade it to Y with a license key - that 
model just never made sense to me. I literally have all he hardware. There’s no 
additional cost. You’re just artificially crippling the unit.

If the hardware can be sold for the price of the LITE and still make a profit, 
why is the key needed to unlock features?

On Oct 29, 2019, at 11:00 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Don't know how I missed this at Wispalooza, just seen on streakwave's website 
there is a new 450i AP out with a 20sm limit called LITE and can be upgraded to 
full capacity with a key upgrade.

Cambium C050045AL02B
5 GHz PMP 450i Connectorized AP FCC LITE

PMP 450i Connectorized Access Point LITE

The LITE version will function exactly as the existing PMP 450i AP but it will 
be restricted to having 20 subscribers connected. A key can be purchased to 
remove this restriction.

https://streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=C050045AL02B===0

I can see myself using alot of these! Glad it has a 20 SM limit instead of 10. 
And there is an integrated 90 degree sector version too.

AWESOME


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Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] T-Mobile Now Offers Home Internet For $50 a Month With No Data Cap - Cord Cutters News

[chuck]

My version of this same story goes as follows:
After the COO/head of sales promised the world to a water utility, we walked 
out of the meeting and he said to me:" I sure hope you can invent all that 
crap we just sold them".  I did.  Created my own version of X.25/ethernet 
mashup to do it.


-Original Message- 
From: Ken Hohhof

Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 12:14 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] T-Mobile Now Offers Home Internet For 
$50 a Month With No Data Cap - Cord Cutters News


I don't know about this 50 Mbps no data cap $50/mo using 4G LTE.  These guys
are subject to the same laws of physics we are.

Personally I think it's the lesson I got around 25 years ago when I was the
engineering leg of the stool along with the sales and marketing legs,
standing in front of a big customer, and they were saying "we can do that".
As the guy who would have to do that, I knew there was no f'ing way we could
do that.

The lecture I got was promise what the customer wants to  hear, then it's
just a game of "managing expectations".  Which means gradually backtracking
from all the lies you told.  The disgusting thing is that it often works.
You get the customer pregnant and by the time they figure it out, they don't
have other options, plus nobody wants to admit they got snookered.

Another way to put it is having more customers than you can serve is a good
problem to have.  Yet another is fake it until you make it.  Or call it a
market test, like you couldn't do the math and figure out that you were
lying.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 4:55 PM
To: CBB - Jay Fuller ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] T-Mobile Now Offers Home Internet For
$50 a Month With No Data Cap - Cord Cutters News

I filled it out -- they said not available looks like a bait and switch.

On 10/30/19 5:47 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


I tried to get more information but they wanted my name and address
before it would even give me the plan data

Sent from my smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Matt Hoppes" 
To: 
Subject: [WISPA Members] T-Mobile Now Offers Home Internet For $50 a
Month With No Data Cap - Cord Cutters News
Date: Wed, Oct 30, 2019 1:30 PM

Last I knew it was for pilot customers only.

On Oct 30, 2019, at 1:55 PM, alex phillips mailto:highspeedl...@gmail.com>> wrote:


https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/t-mobile-now-offers-home-internet-for
-50-a-month-with-no-data-cap/

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Re: [AFMUG] Equipment alarm relays

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I'm not sure why you'd bother with a switch or BH if it has SNMP.   I know
most of my customers who monitor contacts are monitoring things they can't
poll via SNMP because it doesn't support it.

-forrest

On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 3:10 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Who monitors alarm relays on network equipment like switches and
> backhauls?  Can you explain why you'd do that over SNMP?
>
> I feel like you'd have to have a separate out of band network to carry
> the alarms in order for that to have any benefit.but maybe if you're
> Verizon that's not a problem.   Am I off base on this?
>
>
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