Re: [AFMUG] freznel impact calculator

[Ken Hohhof]

I know empirically the big wind turbine blades affect 5 GHz PMP links in cases 
where I could think they are well outside first Fresnel zone.  It can be pretty 
dramatic listening to the Cambium alignment tone (we typically use a little 
amplified speaker so even the person on the ground can hear it).

 

Maybe because the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Fresnel zones still contribute to the 
received signal (either adding or subtracting), it’s just a rule of thumb that 
if you have 0.6 or 1.0 Fresnel clearance you’re good to go.

 

But if they have a complex analysis method that’s probably best.

 

I don’t know how fast the AGC is on a licensed radio, but the turbine blades 
turn pretty slow.  Whoosh … whoosh … whoosh.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Eric Nielsen
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 7:00 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] freznel impact calculator

 

Yeah, the process is completely outside of the standard interference analysis 
database. I don’t recall the tools they use, but it performs a 3D analysis and 
calculates the fresnel clearances when plotting the turbines, factoring the hub 
height and blade length.

Pretty cool stuff.

 

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:56 PM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Im reaching out to them, they did a path study for a similar thing on one of 
our links, it was not on our dime for that link, so maybe we didnt get a full 
dataset and report back, we just got a yes/no on impact, but not enough detail 
to make a risk assessment. They told me they have access to the turbine 
database outside the normal link analysis.

 

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 6:47 PM Eric Nielsen mailto:ericlniel...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Comsearch does something called a “reverse geoplanner”. If you provide them 
with the turbine locations and the path details they’ll tell you the risk of 
fresnel obstruction.

They’re equipped to do this because they perform the microwave studies for wind 
farms.

 

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:43 PM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I have a 3 link path i need to turn up in 11ghz. we drove the path yesterday. 2 
legs are golden. one however is problematic, ive got two wind turbines that are 
in or just outside the fresnel. If it were one, id probably be inclined to risk 
the impact if there was just one turbine, but two is iffy without some good 
maths to support it.

The path is 5.5 miles

the first turbine is 3.64 mile

the second is about 4.69 miles

Fresnel is about 25' radius at that distance max if the calculator is right

the first turbine is maybe 100' from boresite

the second is probably 150'

These arent our normal turbines, these the the bad motherfucker turbines, so 
the blades are like a million feet long, actually IIRC theyre 224' on something 
like a 400' pedestal.

 

I need to pull the specs again on those and get better than google earth GPS 
coordinates on the potential end points, and some better actual heights 

 

that brings be to the question, how do i calculate a partial fresnel 
obstruction with a radius like the blade pattern.

 

I figure boresite view with a 50' circle would give me worst case fresnel, then 
i just draw the arc of the turbine path into that as an obtruction for each 
maybe just shade the polygon it create as a complete obstruction.

 

So once i have that info, what tool can i put it into to calculate the impact? 
everything we use just has an obstruction height. Would i be able to just take 
the distance from edge of fresnel into the furthest point of the polygon? Would 
I need to calculate more loss than that?

 

Im planning on sticking a 5ghz link up anyway pending licensing, so i assume i 
can just extrapolate the loss from that

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571-508-7409
ericlniel...@gmail.com  

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ericlniel...@gmail.com  

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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Steve Jones]

I watch that one and this one from Johns hopkins:
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

the biggest issue is people are comparing china with everywhere else. they
had an unchecked outbreak thye thought they could contain without much
fanfare. it blew up.
42,835 Currently Infected Patients
37,397 Currently infected in China
So there are really only 5438 effectively active infections (china itself
is patient zero)
2981 of those are a religious cult in S korea
that leaves 2457 outside of that outlier That also was a lack of
surveillance
2,923 Total Deaths
2,835 China Deaths
So there are really only 88 effective deaths.

there have been a total of 85206 infections, 79252 were in china

South korea is at the initial chinese numbers, wanna bet they dont track up
at the same click
Iran is gonna top the charts, theyre refusing help from other nations
Italy is a hot potato, im interested to see what goes down there

Brazil is bad news, the whole of south america is concerning, thats where
our cocaine comes from, and they really dont care, the cocaine transport
through mexico is going to spread it there, along with human trafficking
into the US. Crying chuck and nancy pants may want to let that money stay
at the border.


I look at it like the cold and flu, its not that its more survivable in
cold weather, the cold i no good for it. Its that we dont aggregate
indoors, so exposure is less and more of the viral shedding takes place
outside where it doesnt survive or collect.




On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 7:31 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Steve,
>
> Take a look at this website https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/.
> Seems to be no frills data.  Just the raw numbers. No political lean.
> China seems to be leveling off while South Korea is in the shits.  I'm
> still holding out for the warm weather theory.  I've been watching Brazil.
> I belive the one imported case was wondering around for a few days before
> he got diagnosed.  Going to be interesting to see how this virus handles
> warmer tropical weather over the next two weeks.
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Friday, February 28, 2020, 6:48:10 PM, you wrote:
>
>
> I have a suspicion that very soon, one or two major companies will
> announce contracts to move production to another country, like within the
> next two weeks. Many other will follow suit, diversity in production is
> probably going to decimate the chinese economy.
> I expect an unrelated announcement this weekend that will quell the
> downward spiral, a short recovery on monday.
> Within a week or so the administration will temporarily ease tarriffs on
> humanitarian reasons
> By the end of march I think even if the kungflu is still present, it will
> be less impactful.
> Recoveries are outpacing deaths now 2:1, new infections are beginning to
> stagnate. we will see a bump as more surveillance comes on board, its loose
> in california, and they poop on the streets, so there will be some
> controlled outbreaks there, no worse than hepatitis, but the plateau is
> here, excluding some major calamity, like an outbreak in mexico (this will
> have major geopolitical consequence that will heavily reflect in the
> markets). its probably going to do some harm in africa with the locusts,
> but i dont know that africa really impacts markets, they still have ebola
> running around.
> By the end of march, the market will be on the rebound, early april it
> will pass 30, that will drive an april speculative growth between 33 and 35
> that will correct back down to 29-31 in may.
> around this time production will be back to normal, and the reorganized
> sourcing will be coming on line and the vaccine will be moving to the next
> stage
> supply chain disruptions will be recovering
> china will be starving, but humanitarian aid will give everybody a gleeful
> feeling of global unity.
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:28 PM  wrote:
>
> I should have moved it, but I will take the roller coaster ride.  And it
> was up so high too
>
> *From:* Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2020 3:58 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>
> Let it keep going down!  I moved everything to Money Market Monday. Once
> it bottoms out I’ll stick it back in stocks.
>
> On Feb 28, 2020, at 6:45 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
>
>
> I just wanna know when we hit rock bottom so I can buy as much up as
> possible :)
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 4:38 PM  wrote:
>
> How long before the stock market recovers.  Stats would suggest 4 months.
> But if the virus actually becomes a “thing”, like the sky is falling
> thing,  I am sure that will extend this correction.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[David Williamson]

Why in the world would any WISP owner invest in stocks?  Much higher ROI 
investing into the expansion of your own WISP.  SMH.

 

David Williamson

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 5:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

 

Let it keep going down!  I moved everything to Money Market Monday. Once it 
bottoms out I’ll stick it back in stocks. 


On Feb 28, 2020, at 6:45 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:

I just wanna know when we hit rock bottom so I can buy as much up as 
possible :) 

 

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 4:38 PM  wrote:

How long before the stock market recovers.  Stats would suggest 
4 months.  

But if the virus actually becomes a “thing”, like the sky is 
falling thing,  I am sure that will extend this correction.  

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Re: [AFMUG] freznel impact calculator

[Eric Nielsen]

Yeah, the process is completely outside of the standard interference
analysis database. I don’t recall the tools they use, but it performs a 3D
analysis and calculates the fresnel clearances when plotting the turbines,
factoring the hub height and blade length.
Pretty cool stuff.

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:56 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Im reaching out to them, they did a path study for a similar thing on one
> of our links, it was not on our dime for that link, so maybe we didnt get a
> full dataset and report back, we just got a yes/no on impact, but not
> enough detail to make a risk assessment. They told me they have access to
> the turbine database outside the normal link analysis.
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 6:47 PM Eric Nielsen 
> wrote:
>
>> Comsearch does something called a “reverse geoplanner”. If you provide
>> them with the turbine locations and the path details they’ll tell you the
>> risk of fresnel obstruction.
>> They’re equipped to do this because they perform the microwave studies
>> for wind farms.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:43 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a 3 link path i need to turn up in 11ghz. we drove the path
>>> yesterday. 2 legs are golden. one however is problematic, ive got two wind
>>> turbines that are in or just outside the fresnel. If it were one, id
>>> probably be inclined to risk the impact if there was just one turbine, but
>>> two is iffy without some good maths to support it.
>>> The path is 5.5 miles
>>> the first turbine is 3.64 mile
>>> the second is about 4.69 miles
>>> Fresnel is about 25' radius at that distance max if the calculator is
>>> right
>>> the first turbine is maybe 100' from boresite
>>> the second is probably 150'
>>> These arent our normal turbines, these the the bad motherfucker
>>> turbines, so the blades are like a million feet long, actually IIRC theyre
>>> 224' on something like a 400' pedestal.
>>>
>>> I need to pull the specs again on those and get better than google earth
>>> GPS coordinates on the potential end points, and some better actual heights
>>>
>>> that brings be to the question, how do i calculate a partial fresnel
>>> obstruction with a radius like the blade pattern.
>>>
>>> I figure boresite view with a 50' circle would give me worst case
>>> fresnel, then i just draw the arc of the turbine path into that as an
>>> obtruction for each maybe just shade the polygon it create as a complete
>>> obstruction.
>>>
>>> So once i have that info, what tool can i put it into to calculate the
>>> impact? everything we use just has an obstruction height. Would i be able
>>> to just take the distance from edge of fresnel into the furthest point of
>>> the polygon? Would I need to calculate more loss than that?
>>>
>>> Im planning on sticking a 5ghz link up anyway pending licensing, so i
>>> assume i can just extrapolate the loss from that
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> Eric Nielsen
>> 571-508-7409
>> ericlniel...@gmail.com
>>
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>>
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>
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571-508-7409
ericlniel...@gmail.com
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Re: [AFMUG] freznel impact calculator

[Steve Jones]

Im reaching out to them, they did a path study for a similar thing on one
of our links, it was not on our dime for that link, so maybe we didnt get a
full dataset and report back, we just got a yes/no on impact, but not
enough detail to make a risk assessment. They told me they have access to
the turbine database outside the normal link analysis.

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 6:47 PM Eric Nielsen  wrote:

> Comsearch does something called a “reverse geoplanner”. If you provide
> them with the turbine locations and the path details they’ll tell you the
> risk of fresnel obstruction.
> They’re equipped to do this because they perform the microwave studies for
> wind farms.
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:43 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> I have a 3 link path i need to turn up in 11ghz. we drove the path
>> yesterday. 2 legs are golden. one however is problematic, ive got two wind
>> turbines that are in or just outside the fresnel. If it were one, id
>> probably be inclined to risk the impact if there was just one turbine, but
>> two is iffy without some good maths to support it.
>> The path is 5.5 miles
>> the first turbine is 3.64 mile
>> the second is about 4.69 miles
>> Fresnel is about 25' radius at that distance max if the calculator is
>> right
>> the first turbine is maybe 100' from boresite
>> the second is probably 150'
>> These arent our normal turbines, these the the bad motherfucker turbines,
>> so the blades are like a million feet long, actually IIRC theyre 224' on
>> something like a 400' pedestal.
>>
>> I need to pull the specs again on those and get better than google earth
>> GPS coordinates on the potential end points, and some better actual heights
>>
>> that brings be to the question, how do i calculate a partial fresnel
>> obstruction with a radius like the blade pattern.
>>
>> I figure boresite view with a 50' circle would give me worst case
>> fresnel, then i just draw the arc of the turbine path into that as an
>> obtruction for each maybe just shade the polygon it create as a complete
>> obstruction.
>>
>> So once i have that info, what tool can i put it into to calculate the
>> impact? everything we use just has an obstruction height. Would i be able
>> to just take the distance from edge of fresnel into the furthest point of
>> the polygon? Would I need to calculate more loss than that?
>>
>> Im planning on sticking a 5ghz link up anyway pending licensing, so i
>> assume i can just extrapolate the loss from that
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> Eric Nielsen
> 571-508-7409
> ericlniel...@gmail.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] freznel impact calculator

[Eric Nielsen]

Comsearch does something called a “reverse geoplanner”. If you provide them
with the turbine locations and the path details they’ll tell you the risk
of fresnel obstruction.
They’re equipped to do this because they perform the microwave studies for
wind farms.

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:43 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I have a 3 link path i need to turn up in 11ghz. we drove the path
> yesterday. 2 legs are golden. one however is problematic, ive got two wind
> turbines that are in or just outside the fresnel. If it were one, id
> probably be inclined to risk the impact if there was just one turbine, but
> two is iffy without some good maths to support it.
> The path is 5.5 miles
> the first turbine is 3.64 mile
> the second is about 4.69 miles
> Fresnel is about 25' radius at that distance max if the calculator is right
> the first turbine is maybe 100' from boresite
> the second is probably 150'
> These arent our normal turbines, these the the bad motherfucker turbines,
> so the blades are like a million feet long, actually IIRC theyre 224' on
> something like a 400' pedestal.
>
> I need to pull the specs again on those and get better than google earth
> GPS coordinates on the potential end points, and some better actual heights
>
> that brings be to the question, how do i calculate a partial fresnel
> obstruction with a radius like the blade pattern.
>
> I figure boresite view with a 50' circle would give me worst case fresnel,
> then i just draw the arc of the turbine path into that as an obtruction for
> each maybe just shade the polygon it create as a complete obstruction.
>
> So once i have that info, what tool can i put it into to calculate the
> impact? everything we use just has an obstruction height. Would i be able
> to just take the distance from edge of fresnel into the furthest point of
> the polygon? Would I need to calculate more loss than that?
>
> Im planning on sticking a 5ghz link up anyway pending licensing, so i
> assume i can just extrapolate the loss from that
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies

[Ryan McAfee]

Might check with John Scrivner at Live Oak Bank. He is the ISP/Broadband rep
there, IIRC.

Ryan

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of af-requ...@af.afmug.com
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 4:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: AF Digest, Vol 21, Issue 479


--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 16:27:14 -0500
From: "can...@believewireless.net" 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Ritalia has horrible rates. Other companies are better. Your bank is
probably the best.

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
wrote:

> +1 on Ritalia!
>
> Also done well with Summit and LCA.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
> > On Feb 28, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Graham McIntire  wrote:
> >
> > ?We did a lease/finance through Ritalia and had great luck with 
> > them. I can't say we had a great rate (I don't remember what it 
> > was,) but they were easy to deal with and worked out well.
> >
> > Graham McIntire
> > Verona Networks
> > President/Owner
> >
> >> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 2:40 PM  wrote:
> >>
> >> I have had a pretty good experience with John Deere on both rent to 
> >> own
> and
> >> lease on a couple of mini excavators.
> >> Just ask the dealer for dealer financing.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Dev
> >> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 11:32 AM
> >> To: AF@af.afmug.com
> >> Subject: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies
> >>
> >> Has anyone had a good experience with equipment 
> >> lease/purchase/finance companies for things like mini-ex, 
> >> directional bore, etc? Our local
> banks
> >> are totally clueless on equipment, so you have to go find a broker 
> >> (who takes a cut) who shops it to an out-of-state non-retail bank.
> >> --=
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[AFMUG] freznel impact calculator

[Steve Jones]

I have a 3 link path i need to turn up in 11ghz. we drove the path
yesterday. 2 legs are golden. one however is problematic, ive got two wind
turbines that are in or just outside the fresnel. If it were one, id
probably be inclined to risk the impact if there was just one turbine, but
two is iffy without some good maths to support it.
The path is 5.5 miles
the first turbine is 3.64 mile
the second is about 4.69 miles
Fresnel is about 25' radius at that distance max if the calculator is right
the first turbine is maybe 100' from boresite
the second is probably 150'
These arent our normal turbines, these the the bad motherfucker turbines,
so the blades are like a million feet long, actually IIRC theyre 224' on
something like a 400' pedestal.

I need to pull the specs again on those and get better than google earth
GPS coordinates on the potential end points, and some better actual heights

that brings be to the question, how do i calculate a partial fresnel
obstruction with a radius like the blade pattern.

I figure boresite view with a 50' circle would give me worst case fresnel,
then i just draw the arc of the turbine path into that as an obtruction for
each maybe just shade the polygon it create as a complete obstruction.

So once i have that info, what tool can i put it into to calculate the
impact? everything we use just has an obstruction height. Would i be able
to just take the distance from edge of fresnel into the furthest point of
the polygon? Would I need to calculate more loss than that?

Im planning on sticking a 5ghz link up anyway pending licensing, so i
assume i can just extrapolate the loss from that
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Re: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I'd consider checking in with Live Oak bank.  Don't know what their rates
are, but they have a program oriented specifically toward our industry.



On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:36 PM Dev  wrote:

> We had a company quote us 7%, but our math came out to 12%, they disagreed
> no matter what we said. Aren’t they required to disclose the real rates?
>
> IIRC Ritalia was around 12% or so, so expensive money.
>
> I wish our credit union could be bothered to consider it, but they have a
> fresh stack of blank stares from all staff.
>
> I heard banks in the Midwest were more used to equipment financing. Don’t
> want to buy new at 2-3X the price because they have a good deal on
> financing.
>
> On Feb 28, 2020, at 16:21, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>
> 
> And don't fall for the 'lease rate' crap the leasing companies push.
>
> Let's say you get a 5-year lease on a 100K piece of equipment.  The
> leasing company will quote you a leasing rate of something like 2.5%, with
> a payment of $2500/month, with a dollar buyout.  The naive assumption is
> that 2.5% is the interest rate.   Which would be a great rate.
>  Unfortunately, this isn't actually what it is.  Instead, 2.5% is the
> amount of the total purchase you pay each month.   So this means your
> payment is 100K * 0.025 = $2500 per month.
>
> If you take "100K, 5 Years, 2500/month" payment and stick it into a loan
> calculator, you'll find that the rate is actually 17.274%.  Which is pretty
> bad.
>
> It's even worse that the sales people will tell you to your face how great
> the rate is and how it's better than your bank.   And then argue with you
> when you tell them how bad it really is.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 2:28 PM can...@believewireless.net <
> p...@believewireless.net> wrote:
>
>> Ritalia has horrible rates. Other companies are better. Your bank is
>> probably the best.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> +1 on Ritalia!
>>>
>>> Also done well with Summit and LCA.
>>>
>>> Jeff Broadwick
>>> CTIconnect
>>> 312-205-2519 Office
>>> 574-220-7826 Cell
>>> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>>>
>>> > On Feb 28, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Graham McIntire  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > We did a lease/finance through Ritalia and had great luck with them. I
>>> > can't say we had a great rate (I don't remember what it was,) but they
>>> > were easy to deal with and worked out well.
>>> >
>>> > Graham McIntire
>>> > Verona Networks
>>> > President/Owner
>>> >
>>> >> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 2:40 PM  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> I have had a pretty good experience with John Deere on both rent to
>>> own and
>>> >> lease on a couple of mini excavators.
>>> >> Just ask the dealer for dealer financing.
>>> >>
>>> >> -Original Message-
>>> >> From: Dev
>>> >> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 11:32 AM
>>> >> To: AF@af.afmug.com
>>> >> Subject: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies
>>> >>
>>> >> Has anyone had a good experience with equipment lease/purchase/finance
>>> >> companies for things like mini-ex, directional bore, etc? Our local
>>> banks
>>> >> are totally clueless on equipment, so you have to go find a broker
>>> (who
>>> >> takes a cut) who shops it to an out-of-state non-retail bank.
>>> >> --
>>> >> AF mailing list
>>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> AF mailing list
>>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > AF mailing list
>>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
- Forrest
-- 
AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Every couple of months a question about "is there anywhere I can get
unpopulated circuit boards manufactured at a reasonable price outside
mainland china?" comes up on a couple of forums/mailing lists I'm on.   The
answer always turns out to be no.   It's amazing that somewhere else hasn't
figured out how to replicate what China is doing as far as the circuit
boards go, even if it was double the price.   For comparison, US suppliers
are typically over 20 times the price - a board that is under a dollar each
from China can cost $20 to get made in the USA.

So, like everyone else, our blank circuit boards come from a supplier in
China.   Right now, things are backlogged, but it looks like they're close
to caught up.  In an abundance of caution, we went ahead and pulled in 6
months worth for anything we're currently shipping, so they'll be here in
the next few weeks and we don't have to worry so much.   We haven't
inserted an order for the new Base 3 boards yet, but we expect by the time
we do sometime next week that the backlog will be largely cleared from our
preferred supplier in China.


On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:12 PM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Probably not. It has taken decades for China to build the supply chain
> they have. Some countries, like Vietnam, don't have the infrastructure,
> much less the slip set to do it
> I don't doubt they will start planning to diversify, but doing it is years
> away.
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 5:49 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> I have a suspicion that very soon, one or two major companies will
>> announce contracts to move production to another country, like within the
>> next two weeks. Many other will follow suit, diversity in production is
>> probably going to decimate the chinese economy.
>> I expect an unrelated announcement this weekend that will quell the
>> downward spiral, a short recovery on monday.
>> Within a week or so the administration will temporarily ease tarriffs on
>> humanitarian reasons
>> By the end of march I think even if the kungflu is still present, it will
>> be less impactful.
>> Recoveries are outpacing deaths now 2:1, new infections are beginning to
>> stagnate. we will see a bump as more surveillance comes on board, its loose
>> in california, and they poop on the streets, so there will be some
>> controlled outbreaks there, no worse than hepatitis, but the plateau is
>> here, excluding some major calamity, like an outbreak in mexico (this will
>> have major geopolitical consequence that will heavily reflect in the
>> markets). its probably going to do some harm in africa with the locusts,
>> but i dont know that africa really impacts markets, they still have ebola
>> running around.
>> By the end of march, the market will be on the rebound, early april it
>> will pass 30, that will drive an april speculative growth between 33 and 35
>> that will correct back down to 29-31 in may.
>> around this time production will be back to normal, and the reorganized
>> sourcing will be coming on line and the vaccine will be moving to the next
>> stage
>> supply chain disruptions will be recovering
>> china will be starving, but humanitarian aid will give everybody a
>> gleeful feeling of global unity.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:28 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> I should have moved it, but I will take the roller coaster ride.  And it
>>> was up so high too
>>>
>>> *From:* Matt Hoppes
>>> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2020 3:58 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>>>
>>> Let it keep going down!  I moved everything to Money Market Monday. Once
>>> it bottoms out I’ll stick it back in stocks.
>>>
>>> On Feb 28, 2020, at 6:45 PM, Darin Steffl 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just wanna know when we hit rock bottom so I can buy as much up as
>>> possible :)
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 4:38 PM  wrote:
>>>
 How long before the stock market recovers.  Stats would suggest 4
 months.
 But if the virus actually becomes a “thing”, like the sky is falling
 thing,  I am sure that will extend this correction.
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
- Forrest
-- 
AF mailing list
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies

[Dev]

We had a company quote us 7%, but our math came out to 12%, they disagreed no 
matter what we said. Aren’t they required to disclose the real rates?

IIRC Ritalia was around 12% or so, so expensive money.

I wish our credit union could be bothered to consider it, but they have a fresh 
stack of blank stares from all staff.

I heard banks in the Midwest were more used to equipment financing. Don’t want 
to buy new at 2-3X the price because they have a good deal on financing.

On Feb 28, 2020, at 16:21, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:
> 
> 
> And don't fall for the 'lease rate' crap the leasing companies push.
> 
> Let's say you get a 5-year lease on a 100K piece of equipment.  The leasing 
> company will quote you a leasing rate of something like 2.5%, with a payment 
> of $2500/month, with a dollar buyout.  The naive assumption is that 2.5% is 
> the interest rate.   Which would be a great rate.   Unfortunately, this isn't 
> actually what it is.  Instead, 2.5% is the amount of the total purchase you 
> pay each month.   So this means your payment is 100K * 0.025 = $2500 per 
> month.
> 
> If you take "100K, 5 Years, 2500/month" payment and stick it into a loan 
> calculator, you'll find that the rate is actually 17.274%.  Which is pretty 
> bad. 
> 
> It's even worse that the sales people will tell you to your face how great 
> the rate is and how it's better than your bank.   And then argue with you 
> when you tell them how bad it really is.   
> 
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 2:28 PM can...@believewireless.net 
>>  wrote:
>> Ritalia has horrible rates. Other companies are better. Your bank is 
>> probably the best.
>> 
>>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jeff Broadwick - Lists  
>>> wrote:
>>> +1 on Ritalia!
>>> 
>>> Also done well with Summit and LCA.
>>> 
>>> Jeff Broadwick
>>> CTIconnect
>>> 312-205-2519 Office
>>> 574-220-7826 Cell
>>> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>>> 
>>> > On Feb 28, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Graham McIntire  wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > We did a lease/finance through Ritalia and had great luck with them. I
>>> > can't say we had a great rate (I don't remember what it was,) but they
>>> > were easy to deal with and worked out well.
>>> > 
>>> > Graham McIntire
>>> > Verona Networks
>>> > President/Owner
>>> > 
>>> >> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 2:40 PM  wrote:
>>> >> 
>>> >> I have had a pretty good experience with John Deere on both rent to own 
>>> >> and
>>> >> lease on a couple of mini excavators.
>>> >> Just ask the dealer for dealer financing.
>>> >> 
>>> >> -Original Message-
>>> >> From: Dev
>>> >> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 11:32 AM
>>> >> To: AF@af.afmug.com
>>> >> Subject: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies
>>> >> 
>>> >> Has anyone had a good experience with equipment lease/purchase/finance
>>> >> companies for things like mini-ex, directional bore, etc? Our local banks
>>> >> are totally clueless on equipment, so you have to go find a broker (who
>>> >> takes a cut) who shops it to an out-of-state non-retail bank.
>>> >> --
>>> >> AF mailing list
>>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> >> 
>>> >> 
>>> >> --
>>> >> AF mailing list
>>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> > 
>>> > -- 
>>> > AF mailing list
>>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> - Forrest
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

And don't fall for the 'lease rate' crap the leasing companies push.

Let's say you get a 5-year lease on a 100K piece of equipment.  The leasing
company will quote you a leasing rate of something like 2.5%, with a
payment of $2500/month, with a dollar buyout.  The naive assumption is that
2.5% is the interest rate.   Which would be a great rate.   Unfortunately,
this isn't actually what it is.  Instead, 2.5% is the amount of the total
purchase you pay each month.   So this means your payment is 100K * 0.025 =
$2500 per month.

If you take "100K, 5 Years, 2500/month" payment and stick it into a loan
calculator, you'll find that the rate is actually 17.274%.  Which is pretty
bad.

It's even worse that the sales people will tell you to your face how great
the rate is and how it's better than your bank.   And then argue with you
when you tell them how bad it really is.



On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 2:28 PM can...@believewireless.net <
p...@believewireless.net> wrote:

> Ritalia has horrible rates. Other companies are better. Your bank is
> probably the best.
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
> wrote:
>
>> +1 on Ritalia!
>>
>> Also done well with Summit and LCA.
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> CTIconnect
>> 312-205-2519 Office
>> 574-220-7826 Cell
>> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>>
>> > On Feb 28, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Graham McIntire  wrote:
>> >
>> > We did a lease/finance through Ritalia and had great luck with them. I
>> > can't say we had a great rate (I don't remember what it was,) but they
>> > were easy to deal with and worked out well.
>> >
>> > Graham McIntire
>> > Verona Networks
>> > President/Owner
>> >
>> >> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 2:40 PM  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I have had a pretty good experience with John Deere on both rent to
>> own and
>> >> lease on a couple of mini excavators.
>> >> Just ask the dealer for dealer financing.
>> >>
>> >> -Original Message-
>> >> From: Dev
>> >> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 11:32 AM
>> >> To: AF@af.afmug.com
>> >> Subject: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies
>> >>
>> >> Has anyone had a good experience with equipment lease/purchase/finance
>> >> companies for things like mini-ex, directional bore, etc? Our local
>> banks
>> >> are totally clueless on equipment, so you have to go find a broker (who
>> >> takes a cut) who shops it to an out-of-state non-retail bank.
>> >> --
>> >> AF mailing list
>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> AF mailing list
>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
- Forrest
-- 
AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] Sali Lake City steak place

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Knives Chuck. Knives.


bp



On 2/28/2020 3:57 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  Moochies meat balls are simply too large to work on a
sandwich.  
  

   
  
From: Forrest
Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 4:52 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sali Lake City steak
  place
  

 
  
  
I have a whole list of places we like to go
  to in the salt lake area, but neither Rodizio or any steak
  place is on it.
   
  The ones which come to mind are:
   
  Pie Pizza (any Location, although the one near the
university is my favorite)
  Moochies - Beefsteak sandwiches, meatball subs (the
downtown location, not any other)
  Asian Star (chinese) - Union Park Avenue, Midvale.
  Red Iguana (mexican), although I have to be careful
since I have a nut allergy and much of the menu contains
nut-filled moles.
   
  There are also a few fast food places (In-N-Out,
Freddies, etc.) which we don't have near me that I end
up at
   

 

  On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at
7:06 AM 
wrote:
  
  

  

  Spencers.  I am not a huge fan of Rodizeo.  
  What is the event he is attending?
  

   
  
From: Jaime Solorza

Sent: Thursday, February 27,
  2020 6:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm
Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sali Lake
  City steak place
  

 
  
  
Yep . thanks I found it but I think they
  are going to Spencers
 

  On Thu, Feb
27, 2020, 5:53 PM Cassidy B. Larson 
wrote:
  
  
Rodizio?
  
  

  

  On Feb 27, 2020, at 5:50 PM,
Jaime Solorza 
wrote:
   
  
What name and address of the
  Road something place ewe guys go
  to? My lil brother the EE is there
  with other EEs .
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  

  
   

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  

 -- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  

  

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  

 
 
-- 

  - Forrest




-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  

  
  
  

  

Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Lewis Bergman]

Probably not. It has taken decades for China to build the supply chain they
have. Some countries, like Vietnam, don't have the infrastructure, much
less the slip set to do it
I don't doubt they will start planning to diversify, but doing it is years
away.

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 5:49 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> I have a suspicion that very soon, one or two major companies will
> announce contracts to move production to another country, like within the
> next two weeks. Many other will follow suit, diversity in production is
> probably going to decimate the chinese economy.
> I expect an unrelated announcement this weekend that will quell the
> downward spiral, a short recovery on monday.
> Within a week or so the administration will temporarily ease tarriffs on
> humanitarian reasons
> By the end of march I think even if the kungflu is still present, it will
> be less impactful.
> Recoveries are outpacing deaths now 2:1, new infections are beginning to
> stagnate. we will see a bump as more surveillance comes on board, its loose
> in california, and they poop on the streets, so there will be some
> controlled outbreaks there, no worse than hepatitis, but the plateau is
> here, excluding some major calamity, like an outbreak in mexico (this will
> have major geopolitical consequence that will heavily reflect in the
> markets). its probably going to do some harm in africa with the locusts,
> but i dont know that africa really impacts markets, they still have ebola
> running around.
> By the end of march, the market will be on the rebound, early april it
> will pass 30, that will drive an april speculative growth between 33 and 35
> that will correct back down to 29-31 in may.
> around this time production will be back to normal, and the reorganized
> sourcing will be coming on line and the vaccine will be moving to the next
> stage
> supply chain disruptions will be recovering
> china will be starving, but humanitarian aid will give everybody a gleeful
> feeling of global unity.
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:28 PM  wrote:
>
>> I should have moved it, but I will take the roller coaster ride.  And it
>> was up so high too
>>
>> *From:* Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2020 3:58 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>>
>> Let it keep going down!  I moved everything to Money Market Monday. Once
>> it bottoms out I’ll stick it back in stocks.
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2020, at 6:45 PM, Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I just wanna know when we hit rock bottom so I can buy as much up as
>> possible :)
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 4:38 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> How long before the stock market recovers.  Stats would suggest 4
>>> months.
>>> But if the virus actually becomes a “thing”, like the sky is falling
>>> thing,  I am sure that will extend this correction.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I've got a chunk of change I was going to move into the stock market
earlier this year, but then realized that it was an election year, and that
things were going to be volatile, so I left it in the high yield (2%ish)
savings.   Figured that the risk was high enough this year that I should
wait.

It probably was a good thing to do based on current trends.

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:00 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I thought Black Monday in October 1987 was a buying opportunity.  What a
> mistake that was!  I eventually got back even, but I think it took a couple
> years.
>
>
>
> You never know the peak or the bottom until after the fact.
>
>
>
> Oh, and I see Boeing keeps going down.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2020 5:27 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>
>
>
> I should have moved it, but I will take the roller coaster ride.  And it
> was up so high too
>
>
>
> *From:* Matt Hoppes
>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2020 3:58 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>
>
>
> Let it keep going down!  I moved everything to Money Market Monday. Once
> it bottoms out I’ll stick it back in stocks.
>
>
> On Feb 28, 2020, at 6:45 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
>
> I just wanna know when we hit rock bottom so I can buy as much up as
> possible :)
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 4:38 PM  wrote:
>
> How long before the stock market recovers.  Stats would suggest 4 months.
>
> But if the virus actually becomes a “thing”, like the sky is falling
> thing,  I am sure that will extend this correction.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
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-- 
AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] Sali Lake City steak place

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

You obviously need to either get a bigger mouth, or work on your meatball
sub handling skills ;)  But yeah, they are a bit larger than one would
expect, and probably larger than what should go on a sub.

I tend to lean toward their cheesesteaks, which is why I recommend the
downtown location in particular.  The other locations don't seem to have as
good of cheesesteaks for some reason.


On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 4:57 PM  wrote:

> Moochies meat balls are simply too large to work on a sandwich.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2020 4:52 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sali Lake City steak place
>
> I have a whole list of places we like to go to in the salt lake area, but
> neither Rodizio or any steak place is on it.
>
> The ones which come to mind are:
>
> Pie Pizza (any Location, although the one near the university is my
> favorite)
> Moochies - Beefsteak sandwiches, meatball subs (the downtown location, not
> any other)
> Asian Star (chinese) - Union Park Avenue, Midvale.
> Red Iguana (mexican), although I have to be careful since I have a nut
> allergy and much of the menu contains nut-filled moles.
>
> There are also a few fast food places (In-N-Out, Freddies, etc.) which we
> don't have near me that I end up at
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 7:06 AM  wrote:
>
>> Spencers.  I am not a huge fan of Rodizeo.
>> What is the event he is attending?
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 27, 2020 6:28 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sali Lake City steak place
>>
>> Yep . thanks I found it but I think they are going to Spencers
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 5:53 PM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:
>>
>>> Rodizio?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 27, 2020, at 5:50 PM, Jaime Solorza 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> What name and address of the Road something place ewe guys go to? My lil
>>> brother the EE is there with other EEs .
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Ken Hohhof]

I thought Black Monday in October 1987 was a buying opportunity.  What a 
mistake that was!  I eventually got back even, but I think it took a couple 
years.

 

You never know the peak or the bottom until after the fact.

 

Oh, and I see Boeing keeps going down.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 5:27 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

 

I should have moved it, but I will take the roller coaster ride.  And it was up 
so high too

 

From: Matt Hoppes 

Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 3:58 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

 

Let it keep going down!  I moved everything to Money Market Monday. Once it 
bottoms out I’ll stick it back in stocks. 


On Feb 28, 2020, at 6:45 PM, Darin Steffl mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > wrote:

I just wanna know when we hit rock bottom so I can buy as much up as possible 
:) 

 

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 4:38 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

How long before the stock market recovers.  Stats would suggest 4 months.  

But if the virus actually becomes a “thing”, like the sky is falling thing,  I 
am sure that will extend this correction.  

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  _  

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Re: [AFMUG] Sali Lake City steak place

[chuck]

Moochies meat balls are simply too large to work on a sandwich.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 4:52 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sali Lake City steak place

I have a whole list of places we like to go to in the salt lake area, but 
neither Rodizio or any steak place is on it. 

The ones which come to mind are:

Pie Pizza (any Location, although the one near the university is my favorite)
Moochies - Beefsteak sandwiches, meatball subs (the downtown location, not any 
other)
Asian Star (chinese) - Union Park Avenue, Midvale.
Red Iguana (mexican), although I have to be careful since I have a nut allergy 
and much of the menu contains nut-filled moles.

There are also a few fast food places (In-N-Out, Freddies, etc.) which we don't 
have near me that I end up at


On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 7:06 AM  wrote:

  Spencers.  I am not a huge fan of Rodizeo.  
  What is the event he is attending?

  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 6:28 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sali Lake City steak place

  Yep . thanks I found it but I think they are going to Spencers

  On Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 5:53 PM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

Rodizio?






  On Feb 27, 2020, at 5:50 PM, Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

  What name and address of the Road something place ewe guys go to? My lil 
brother the EE is there with other EEs .
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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Steve Jones]

kungflu was the catalyst companies have been waiting for. having all eggs
in one basket failed. the speed at which many production contracts come to
fruition will show that theyve been in negotiations for a long time. It
will add tremendous stability to the markets

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:54 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Google has already begun moving production of their next-gen pixel phones
> to Vietnam. I don't believe they're the only ones.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 2/28/2020 3:48 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> I have a suspicion that very soon, one or two major companies will
> announce contracts to move production to another country, like within the
> next two weeks. Many other will follow suit, diversity in production is
> probably going to decimate the chinese economy.
> I expect an unrelated announcement this weekend that will quell the
> downward spiral, a short recovery on monday.
> Within a week or so the administration will temporarily ease tarriffs on
> humanitarian reasons
> By the end of march I think even if the kungflu is still present, it will
> be less impactful.
> Recoveries are outpacing deaths now 2:1, new infections are beginning to
> stagnate. we will see a bump as more surveillance comes on board, its loose
> in california, and they poop on the streets, so there will be some
> controlled outbreaks there, no worse than hepatitis, but the plateau is
> here, excluding some major calamity, like an outbreak in mexico (this will
> have major geopolitical consequence that will heavily reflect in the
> markets). its probably going to do some harm in africa with the locusts,
> but i dont know that africa really impacts markets, they still have ebola
> running around.
> By the end of march, the market will be on the rebound, early april it
> will pass 30, that will drive an april speculative growth between 33 and 35
> that will correct back down to 29-31 in may.
> around this time production will be back to normal, and the reorganized
> sourcing will be coming on line and the vaccine will be moving to the next
> stage
> supply chain disruptions will be recovering
> china will be starving, but humanitarian aid will give everybody a gleeful
> feeling of global unity.
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:28 PM  wrote:
>
>> I should have moved it, but I will take the roller coaster ride.  And it
>> was up so high too
>>
>> *From:* Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2020 3:58 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>>
>> Let it keep going down!  I moved everything to Money Market Monday. Once
>> it bottoms out I’ll stick it back in stocks.
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2020, at 6:45 PM, Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I just wanna know when we hit rock bottom so I can buy as much up as
>> possible :)
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 4:38 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> How long before the stock market recovers.  Stats would suggest 4
>>> months.
>>> But if the virus actually becomes a “thing”, like the sky is falling
>>> thing,  I am sure that will extend this correction.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Google has already begun moving production of their next-gen
  pixel phones to Vietnam. I don't believe they're the only ones.


bp



On 2/28/2020 3:48 PM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  I have a suspicion that very soon, one or two major
companies will announce contracts to move production to another
country, like within the next two weeks. Many other will follow
suit, diversity in production is probably going to decimate the
chinese economy.
I expect an unrelated announcement this weekend that will
  quell the downward spiral, a short recovery on monday. 
Within a week or so the administration will temporarily
  ease tarriffs on humanitarian reasons
By the end of march I think even if the kungflu is still
  present, it will be less impactful.
Recoveries are outpacing deaths now 2:1, new infections are
  beginning to stagnate. we will see a bump as more surveillance
  comes on board, its loose in california, and they poop on the
  streets, so there will be some controlled outbreaks there, no
  worse than hepatitis, but the plateau is here, excluding some
  major calamity, like an outbreak in mexico (this will have
  major geopolitical consequence that will heavily reflect in
  the markets). its probably going to do some harm in africa
  with the locusts, but i dont know that africa really impacts
  markets, they still have ebola running around.
By the end of march, the market will be on the rebound,
  early april it will pass 30, that will drive an april
  speculative growth between 33 and 35 that will correct back
  down to 29-31 in may.
around this time production will be back to normal, and the
  reorganized sourcing will be coming on line and the vaccine
  will be moving to the next stage
supply chain disruptions will be recovering
china will be starving, but humanitarian aid will give
  everybody a gleeful feeling of global unity.


  
  
  
On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:28
  PM 
  wrote:


  

  
I should have moved it, but I will take the roller
  coaster ride.  And it was up so high too

  
 

  From: Matt Hoppes 
  Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 3:58
PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave
  Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start
a pool

  
   


  Let it keep going down!  I moved
everything to Money Market Monday. Once it bottoms
out I’ll stick it back in stocks. 
  
On Feb 28, 2020, at 6:45 PM, Darin Steffl 
wrote:

  
  

  I just wanna know when we hit rock bottom so
I can buy as much up as possible :) 
   
  
On Fri, Feb
  28, 2020, 4:38 PM 
  wrote:


  

  
How long before the stock market
  recovers.  Stats would suggest 4
  months.  
But if the virus actually becomes a
  “thing”, like the sky is falling
  thing,  I am sure that will extend
  this correction.  
  

  
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  

  
  
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Re: [AFMUG] Sali Lake City steak place

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I have a whole list of places we like to go to in the salt lake area, but
neither Rodizio or any steak place is on it.

The ones which come to mind are:

Pie Pizza (any Location, although the one near the university is my
favorite)
Moochies - Beefsteak sandwiches, meatball subs (the downtown location, not
any other)
Asian Star (chinese) - Union Park Avenue, Midvale.
Red Iguana (mexican), although I have to be careful since I have a nut
allergy and much of the menu contains nut-filled moles.

There are also a few fast food places (In-N-Out, Freddies, etc.) which we
don't have near me that I end up at


On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 7:06 AM  wrote:

> Spencers.  I am not a huge fan of Rodizeo.
> What is the event he is attending?
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 27, 2020 6:28 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sali Lake City steak place
>
> Yep . thanks I found it but I think they are going to Spencers
>
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 5:53 PM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:
>
>> Rodizio?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 27, 2020, at 5:50 PM, Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>> What name and address of the Road something place ewe guys go to? My lil
>> brother the EE is there with other EEs .
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Steve Jones]

I have a suspicion that very soon, one or two major companies will announce
contracts to move production to another country, like within the next two
weeks. Many other will follow suit, diversity in production is probably
going to decimate the chinese economy.
I expect an unrelated announcement this weekend that will quell the
downward spiral, a short recovery on monday.
Within a week or so the administration will temporarily ease tarriffs on
humanitarian reasons
By the end of march I think even if the kungflu is still present, it will
be less impactful.
Recoveries are outpacing deaths now 2:1, new infections are beginning to
stagnate. we will see a bump as more surveillance comes on board, its loose
in california, and they poop on the streets, so there will be some
controlled outbreaks there, no worse than hepatitis, but the plateau is
here, excluding some major calamity, like an outbreak in mexico (this will
have major geopolitical consequence that will heavily reflect in the
markets). its probably going to do some harm in africa with the locusts,
but i dont know that africa really impacts markets, they still have ebola
running around.
By the end of march, the market will be on the rebound, early april it will
pass 30, that will drive an april speculative growth between 33 and 35 that
will correct back down to 29-31 in may.
around this time production will be back to normal, and the reorganized
sourcing will be coming on line and the vaccine will be moving to the next
stage
supply chain disruptions will be recovering
china will be starving, but humanitarian aid will give everybody a gleeful
feeling of global unity.


On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:28 PM  wrote:

> I should have moved it, but I will take the roller coaster ride.  And it
> was up so high too
>
> *From:* Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2020 3:58 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>
> Let it keep going down!  I moved everything to Money Market Monday. Once
> it bottoms out I’ll stick it back in stocks.
>
> On Feb 28, 2020, at 6:45 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
>
> I just wanna know when we hit rock bottom so I can buy as much up as
> possible :)
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 4:38 PM  wrote:
>
>> How long before the stock market recovers.  Stats would suggest 4
>> months.
>> But if the virus actually becomes a “thing”, like the sky is falling
>> thing,  I am sure that will extend this correction.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[chuck]

I should have moved it, but I will take the roller coaster ride.  And it was up 
so high too

From: Matt Hoppes 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 3:58 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

Let it keep going down!  I moved everything to Money Market Monday. Once it 
bottoms out I’ll stick it back in stocks. 

On Feb 28, 2020, at 6:45 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:


  I just wanna know when we hit rock bottom so I can buy as much up as possible 
:) 

  On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 4:38 PM  wrote:

How long before the stock market recovers.  Stats would suggest 4 months.  
But if the virus actually becomes a “thing”, like the sky is falling thing, 
 I am sure that will extend this correction.  
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

#metoo !

  - Original Message - 
  From: Darin Steffl 
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 5:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool


  I just wanna know when we hit rock bottom so I can buy as much up as possible 
:) 


  On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 4:38 PM  wrote:

How long before the stock market recovers.  Stats would suggest 4 months.  
But if the virus actually becomes a “thing”, like the sky is falling thing, 
 I am sure that will extend this correction.  
-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--


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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

Let it keep going down!  I moved everything to Money Market Monday. Once it 
bottoms out I’ll stick it back in stocks. 

> On Feb 28, 2020, at 6:45 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
> 
> I just wanna know when we hit rock bottom so I can buy as much up as possible 
> :) 
> 
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 4:38 PM  wrote:
>> How long before the stock market recovers.  Stats would suggest 4 months. 
>> But if the virus actually becomes a “thing”, like the sky is falling thing,  
>> I am sure that will extend this correction. 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Darin Steffl]

I just wanna know when we hit rock bottom so I can buy as much up as
possible :)

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 4:38 PM  wrote:

> How long before the stock market recovers.  Stats would suggest 4 months.
> But if the virus actually becomes a “thing”, like the sky is falling
> thing,  I am sure that will extend this correction.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] micro-pop on power pole

[dmmoffett]

Seen it done with and without permission.In some places it's easier to set your 
own pole. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: ch...@wbmfg.com Date: 2/28/20  5:19 PM  
(GMT-05:00) To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  Subject: Re: 
[AFMUG] micro-pop on power pole 


Cell companies do it all the time.  There is some federal regs that 
force the highway ROW people to let you set a pole or get on someone’s pole in 
the ROW.  


 

From: Dev 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 2:23 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] micro-pop on power pole
 
I 
saw this in southern Washington, but I don’t know who’s it is but I think the 
pole owner is a co-op. 
 



  On Feb 28, 2020, at 12:55 PM, Graham McIntire 
   wrote:
   
  
  Has anyone deployed wireless equipment on a power company pole? 
  I'mjust talking about something small in the communications 
  attachmentspace, small AP and backhaul.Graham McIntireVerona 
  NetworksPresident/Owner-- AF mailing 
  listAF@af.afmug.comhttp://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 


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[AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[chuck]

How long before the stock market recovers.  Stats would suggest 4 months.  
But if the virus actually becomes a “thing”, like the sky is falling thing,  I 
am sure that will extend this correction.  -- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] micro-pop on power pole

[chuck]

Cell companies do it all the time.  There is some federal regs that force the 
highway ROW people to let you set a pole or get on someone’s pole in the ROW.  

From: Dev 
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 2:23 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] micro-pop on power pole

I saw this in southern Washington, but I don’t know who’s it is but I think the 
pole owner is a co-op. 





  On Feb 28, 2020, at 12:55 PM, Graham McIntire  wrote:

  Has anyone deployed wireless equipment on a power company pole? I'm
  just talking about something small in the communications attachment
  space, small AP and backhaul.

  Graham McIntire
  Verona Networks
  President/Owner

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Re: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies

[can...@believewireless.net]

Ritalia has horrible rates. Other companies are better. Your bank is
probably the best.

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
wrote:

> +1 on Ritalia!
>
> Also done well with Summit and LCA.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
> > On Feb 28, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Graham McIntire  wrote:
> >
> > We did a lease/finance through Ritalia and had great luck with them. I
> > can't say we had a great rate (I don't remember what it was,) but they
> > were easy to deal with and worked out well.
> >
> > Graham McIntire
> > Verona Networks
> > President/Owner
> >
> >> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 2:40 PM  wrote:
> >>
> >> I have had a pretty good experience with John Deere on both rent to own
> and
> >> lease on a couple of mini excavators.
> >> Just ask the dealer for dealer financing.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Dev
> >> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 11:32 AM
> >> To: AF@af.afmug.com
> >> Subject: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies
> >>
> >> Has anyone had a good experience with equipment lease/purchase/finance
> >> companies for things like mini-ex, directional bore, etc? Our local
> banks
> >> are totally clueless on equipment, so you have to go find a broker (who
> >> takes a cut) who shops it to an out-of-state non-retail bank.
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] micro-pop on power pole

[Dev]

I saw this in southern Washington, but I don’t know who’s it is but I think the 
pole owner is a co-op.



> On Feb 28, 2020, at 12:55 PM, Graham McIntire  wrote:
> 
> Has anyone deployed wireless equipment on a power company pole? I'm
> just talking about something small in the communications attachment
> space, small AP and backhaul.
> 
> Graham McIntire
> Verona Networks
> President/Owner
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] micro-pop on power pole

[Jason McKemie]

I've done it a couple of times, they usually set a drop pole and have me
put my equipment on that, however.  No active wireless equipment on the
main runs.

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 2:56 PM Graham McIntire  wrote:

> Has anyone deployed wireless equipment on a power company pole? I'm
> just talking about something small in the communications attachment
> space, small AP and backhaul.
>
> Graham McIntire
> Verona Networks
> President/Owner
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

+1 on Ritalia!

Also done well with Summit and LCA.

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

> On Feb 28, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Graham McIntire  wrote:
> 
> We did a lease/finance through Ritalia and had great luck with them. I
> can't say we had a great rate (I don't remember what it was,) but they
> were easy to deal with and worked out well.
> 
> Graham McIntire
> Verona Networks
> President/Owner
> 
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 2:40 PM  wrote:
>> 
>> I have had a pretty good experience with John Deere on both rent to own and
>> lease on a couple of mini excavators.
>> Just ask the dealer for dealer financing.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Dev
>> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 11:32 AM
>> To: AF@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies
>> 
>> Has anyone had a good experience with equipment lease/purchase/finance
>> companies for things like mini-ex, directional bore, etc? Our local banks
>> are totally clueless on equipment, so you have to go find a broker (who
>> takes a cut) who shops it to an out-of-state non-retail bank.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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[AFMUG] micro-pop on power pole

[Graham McIntire]

Has anyone deployed wireless equipment on a power company pole? I'm
just talking about something small in the communications attachment
space, small AP and backhaul.

Graham McIntire
Verona Networks
President/Owner

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Re: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies

[Graham McIntire]

We did a lease/finance through Ritalia and had great luck with them. I
can't say we had a great rate (I don't remember what it was,) but they
were easy to deal with and worked out well.

Graham McIntire
Verona Networks
President/Owner

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 2:40 PM  wrote:
>
> I have had a pretty good experience with John Deere on both rent to own and
> lease on a couple of mini excavators.
> Just ask the dealer for dealer financing.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Dev
> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 11:32 AM
> To: AF@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies
>
> Has anyone had a good experience with equipment lease/purchase/finance
> companies for things like mini-ex, directional bore, etc? Our local banks
> are totally clueless on equipment, so you have to go find a broker (who
> takes a cut) who shops it to an out-of-state non-retail bank.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies

[chuck]

I have had a pretty good experience with John Deere on both rent to own and 
lease on a couple of mini excavators.

Just ask the dealer for dealer financing.

-Original Message- 
From: Dev

Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 11:32 AM
To: AF@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies

Has anyone had a good experience with equipment lease/purchase/finance 
companies for things like mini-ex, directional bore, etc? Our local banks 
are totally clueless on equipment, so you have to go find a broker (who 
takes a cut) who shops it to an out-of-state non-retail bank.

--
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE

[Ken Hohhof]

Oh, wait, now I see what you guys are referring to.  Well, that’s not optimal.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 9:31 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE

 

It was brought to my attention over 6 months ago, but I decided it was in 
everyone's best interest if I didn't spread it. Within the past month, it got 
spread on the FB groups.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Mathew Howard" mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 9:28:51 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE

I don't think it ever came up on this list... I had no idea about it either 
until a week or so ago.

 

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 11:14 PM Jason McKemie 
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > 
wrote:

Holy crap, I must be way out of the loop, but I never saw anything on this list 
about "bleary's" situation. I just googled it, that is nuts.

On Thursday, February 27, 2020, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I've been told the attenuation from foliage in 3.5ghz is going to be about 15db 
per 100m.  Obviously that really depends on what specifically is in the way, 
but I think that figure lines up with my observations in the field.  It means 
you can get through trees at a steep angle to a high tower, or you can 
penetrate a wind break or the trees lining a suburban street.  You're not 
literally going to get through a forest whether it's LTE or Wimax or anything 
else.

I believe LTE does have some "magic" to it.  The channel space is divided into 
small subcarriers and the time slots are divided into (I think) 125us chunks.  
The intersection of one time slice and one subcarrier is a resource block.  The 
UE/CPE sends back Channel Quality Indicators (CQI) telling the eNB/Base Station 
the quality of the resource blocks it's receiving.  Then the Base Station can 
consider who's able to receive a resource block before allocating them and 
thereby not waste airtime on resource blocks you won't get and then 
consequently it can waste less airtime on retransmits.  You'll see this as 
better jitter and packet loss compared to another product in the same location. 
 

When you have trees in the way you'll get attenuation no matter which product 
you use, but LTE seems to give you a more consistent outcome with nLOS than 
other stuff does.  It's an incremental improvement over Wimax in that regard, 
and the top end of performance is a lot higher than Wimax so a UE with good 
signal could actually impress you.

That LTE "magic" is definitely a part of the puzzle, along with the power, 
noise, etc that you mention.  To reiterate, it's an incremental improvement 
over Wimax.  If Wimax didn't work at a site, LTE won't either.  We had a some 
places where Wimax was on the bleeding edge (like -85 to -90 RSSI) and LTE 
didn't work at all, so we actually lost a handful of customers in the 
transition from Wimax.  This was worth it in the long run because at sites 
where Wimax had a good signal, LTE was betterand frankly you didn't want 
those CPE with garbage signals anyway.  

If you believed all the hype from a guy who's name rhymed with "bleary" then 
you were probably disappointed with LTE, but if you go in understanding what 
you'll get then I think you'll find it's a useful tool to have.

As an aside, I'm glad to see Ericsson and Cambium getting into this space and 
I'm hoping the competition will raise the bar for quality.  Frankly, quality 
has been the biggest problem with the existing players in LTE for WISPs.

-Adam

 

On 2/27/2020 12:03 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

For years there has been enthusiasm for the idea that 3.5 GHz is suitable for 
NLOS propagation in a way that doesn’t apply to other mid band spectrum like 
2.4, 2.5 or 5 GHz.  Initially is wasn’t clear what type of NLOS people meant – 
urban clutter or foliage – but I think it’s pretty clear people are talking 
about foliage.

 

Why do people expect this?  Is it the frequency, or the protocol like WiMAX and 
now LTE?  Or no theoretical basis, just it works don’t ask why?

 

I can think of several possible explanations, not sure if any of these are why 
people associate 3.65 GHz LTE with NLOS.

 

- 3.65 GHz somehow is absorbed less by foliage than other mid band frequencies

- some feature of the LTE 

Re: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies

[Ken Hohhof]

Another approach would be a line of credit, which again, they don’t care what 
you buy.  Once upon a time those were easy to get, and they are usually indexed 
to prime rate.  But the days when your local bank would go into the vault and 
bring out a wheelbarrow full of money and ask are you sure you don’t want more, 
those days are long gone.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 1:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies

 

Wouldn't a lease from them for a machine be like 10% though?  That's awfully 
expensive.


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 2:23 PM Erich Kaiser mailto:er...@northcentraltower.com> > wrote:

We use Lease Corporation of America for all of our leases, they don't care what 
you buy.

 




Erich Kaiser

 

 

 

 

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 12:33 PM Dev mailto:d...@logicalwebhost.com> > wrote:

Has anyone had a good experience with equipment lease/purchase/finance 
companies for things like mini-ex, directional bore, etc? Our local banks are 
totally clueless on equipment, so you have to go find a broker (who takes a 
cut) who shops it to an out-of-state non-retail bank.
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies

[Josh Luthman]

Wouldn't a lease from them for a machine be like 10% though?  That's
awfully expensive.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 2:23 PM Erich Kaiser 
wrote:

> We use Lease Corporation of America for all of our leases, they don't care
> what you buy.
>
>
> Erich Kaiser
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 12:33 PM Dev  wrote:
>
>> Has anyone had a good experience with equipment lease/purchase/finance
>> companies for things like mini-ex, directional bore, etc? Our local banks
>> are totally clueless on equipment, so you have to go find a broker (who
>> takes a cut) who shops it to an out-of-state non-retail bank.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies

[Erich Kaiser]

We use Lease Corporation of America for all of our leases, they don't care
what you buy.


Erich Kaiser





On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 12:33 PM Dev  wrote:

> Has anyone had a good experience with equipment lease/purchase/finance
> companies for things like mini-ex, directional bore, etc? Our local banks
> are totally clueless on equipment, so you have to go find a broker (who
> takes a cut) who shops it to an out-of-state non-retail bank.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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[AFMUG] equipment lease/purchase companies

[Dev]

Has anyone had a good experience with equipment lease/purchase/finance 
companies for things like mini-ex, directional bore, etc? Our local banks are 
totally clueless on equipment, so you have to go find a broker (who takes a 
cut) who shops it to an out-of-state non-retail bank.
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE

[Mike Hammett]

It was brought to my attention over 6 months ago, but I decided it was in 
everyone's best interest if I didn't spread it. Within the past month, it got 
spread on the FB groups. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mathew Howard"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 9:28:51 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE 


I don't think it ever came up on this list... I had no idea about it either 
until a week or so ago. 



On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 11:14 PM Jason McKemie < 
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com > wrote: 


Holy crap, I must be way out of the loop, but I never saw anything on this list 
about "bleary's" situation. I just googled it, that is nuts. 

On Thursday, February 27, 2020, Adam Moffett < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 




I've been told the attenuation from foliage in 3.5ghz is going to be about 15db 
per 100m. Obviously that really depends on what specifically is in the way, but 
I think that figure lines up with my observations in the field. It means you 
can get through trees at a steep angle to a high tower, or you can penetrate a 
wind break or the trees lining a suburban street. You're not literally going to 
get through a forest whether it's LTE or Wimax or anything else. 
I believe LTE does have some "magic" to it. The channel space is divided into 
small subcarriers and the time slots are divided into (I think) 125us chunks. 
The intersection of one time slice and one subcarrier is a resource block. The 
UE/CPE sends back Channel Quality Indicators (CQI) telling the eNB/Base Station 
the quality of the resource blocks it's receiving. Then the Base Station can 
consider who's able to receive a resource block before allocating them and 
thereby not waste airtime on resource blocks you won't get and then 
consequently it can waste less airtime on retransmits. You'll see this as 
better jitter and packet loss compared to another product in the same location. 

When you have trees in the way you'll get attenuation no matter which product 
you use, but LTE seems to give you a more consistent outcome with nLOS than 
other stuff does. It's an incremental improvement over Wimax in that regard, 
and the top end of performance is a lot higher than Wimax so a UE with good 
signal could actually impress you. 
That LTE "magic" is definitely a part of the puzzle, along with the power, 
noise, etc that you mention. To reiterate, it's an incremental improvement over 
Wimax. If Wimax didn't work at a site, LTE won't either. We had a some places 
where Wimax was on the bleeding edge (like -85 to -90 RSSI) and LTE didn't work 
at all, so we actually lost a handful of customers in the transition from 
Wimax. This was worth it in the long run because at sites where Wimax had a 
good signal, LTE was betterand frankly you didn't want those CPE with 
garbage signals anyway. 

If you believed all the hype from a guy who's name rhymed with "bleary" then 
you were probably disappointed with LTE, but if you go in understanding what 
you'll get then I think you'll find it's a useful tool to have. 
As an aside, I'm glad to see Ericsson and Cambium getting into this space and 
I'm hoping the competition will raise the bar for quality. Frankly, quality has 
been the biggest problem with the existing players in LTE for WISPs. 
-Adam 



On 2/27/2020 12:03 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 




For years there has been enthusiasm for the idea that 3.5 GHz is suitable for 
NLOS propagation in a way that doesn’t apply to other mid band spectrum like 
2.4, 2.5 or 5 GHz. Initially is wasn’t clear what type of NLOS people meant – 
urban clutter or foliage – but I think it’s pretty clear people are talking 
about foliage. 

Why do people expect this? Is it the frequency, or the protocol like WiMAX and 
now LTE? Or no theoretical basis, just it works don’t ask why? 

I can think of several possible explanations, not sure if any of these are why 
people associate 3.65 GHz LTE with NLOS. 

- 3.65 GHz somehow is absorbed less by foliage than other mid band frequencies 
- some feature of the LTE protocol that overcomes NLOS 
- LTE equipment has more sensitive receivers 
- 3.65 GHz has less interference due to being semi licensed 
- some combination of receiver sensitivity and lack of interference 
- none of the above but LTE equipment is just made better 

Maybe it’s real world experience with no theoretical basis. But I always like 
to know why something works, or doesn’t. You’d prefer that the reason it works 
isn’t some temporary anomaly. Like service is really good at this new 
restaurant, because nobody knows about it yet. 



From: AF  On Behalf Of Eric Muehleisen 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 10:29 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE 


Still in winter. I'd like to see how it performs when the leaves are full in 
May. 


On 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE

[Mathew Howard]

I don't think it ever came up on this list... I had no idea about it either
until a week or so ago.

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 11:14 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Holy crap, I must be way out of the loop, but I never saw anything on this
> list about "bleary's" situation. I just googled it, that is nuts.
>
> On Thursday, February 27, 2020, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> I've been told the attenuation from foliage in 3.5ghz is going to be
>> about 15db per 100m.  Obviously that really depends on what
>> *specifically* is in the way, but I think that figure lines up with my
>> observations in the field.  It means you can get through trees at a steep
>> angle to a high tower, or you can penetrate a wind break or the trees
>> lining a suburban street.  You're not literally going to get through a
>> forest whether it's LTE or Wimax or anything else.
>>
>> I believe LTE does have some "magic" to it.  The channel space is divided
>> into small subcarriers and the time slots are divided into (I think) 125us
>> chunks.  The intersection of one time slice and one subcarrier is a
>> resource block.  The UE/CPE sends back Channel Quality Indicators (CQI)
>> telling the eNB/Base Station the quality of the resource blocks it's
>> receiving.  Then the Base Station can consider who's able to receive a
>> resource block before allocating them and thereby not waste airtime on
>> resource blocks you won't get and then consequently it can waste less
>> airtime on retransmits.  You'll see this as better jitter and packet loss
>> compared to another product in the same location.
>>
>> When you have trees in the way you'll get attenuation no matter which
>> product you use, but LTE seems to give you a more consistent outcome with
>> nLOS than other stuff does.  It's an *incremental* improvement over
>> Wimax in that regard, and the top end of performance is a lot higher than
>> Wimax so a UE with good signal could actually impress you.
>>
>> That LTE "magic" is definitely a part of the puzzle, along with the
>> power, noise, etc that you mention.  To reiterate, it's an *incremental 
>> *improvement
>> over Wimax.  If Wimax didn't work at a site, LTE won't either.  We had a
>> some places where Wimax was on the bleeding edge (like -85 to -90 RSSI) and
>> LTE didn't work at all, so we actually lost a handful of customers in the
>> transition from Wimax.  This was worth it in the long run because at sites
>> where Wimax had a good signal, LTE was betterand frankly you didn't
>> want those CPE with garbage signals anyway.
>>
>> If you believed all the hype from a guy who's name rhymed with "bleary"
>> then you were probably disappointed with LTE, but if you go in
>> understanding what you'll get then I think you'll find it's a useful tool
>> to have.
>>
>> As an aside, I'm glad to see Ericsson and Cambium getting into this space
>> and I'm hoping the competition will raise the bar for quality.  Frankly,
>> quality has been the biggest problem with the existing players in LTE for
>> WISPs.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>> On 2/27/2020 12:03 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> For years there has been enthusiasm for the idea that 3.5 GHz is suitable
>> for NLOS propagation in a way that doesn’t apply to other mid band spectrum
>> like 2.4, 2.5 or 5 GHz.  Initially is wasn’t clear what type of NLOS people
>> meant – urban clutter or foliage – but I think it’s pretty clear people are
>> talking about foliage.
>>
>>
>>
>> Why do people expect this?  Is it the frequency, or the protocol like
>> WiMAX and now LTE?  Or no theoretical basis, just it works don’t ask why?
>>
>>
>>
>> I can think of several possible explanations, not sure if any of these
>> are why people associate 3.65 GHz LTE with NLOS.
>>
>>
>>
>> - 3.65 GHz somehow is absorbed less by foliage than other mid band
>> frequencies
>>
>> - some feature of the LTE protocol that overcomes NLOS
>>
>> - LTE equipment has more sensitive receivers
>>
>> - 3.65 GHz has less interference due to being semi licensed
>>
>> - some combination of receiver sensitivity and lack of interference
>>
>> - none of the above but LTE equipment is just made better
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe it’s real world experience with no theoretical basis.  But I always
>> like to know why something works, or doesn’t.  You’d prefer that the reason
>> it works isn’t some temporary anomaly.  Like service is really good at this
>> new restaurant, because nobody knows about it yet.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF   *On
>> Behalf Of *Eric Muehleisen
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 27, 2020 10:29 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE
>>
>>
>>
>> Still in winter. I'd like to see how it performs when the leaves are full
>> in May.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:26 AM dave  wrote:
>>
>> We R starting to see some real world impressive results with just the
>> pmp450i CBRS radios on a 20Mhz channels
>> This guy is nearLOS about 2.5 miles of some 

Re: [AFMUG] Sali Lake City steak place

[Jaime Solorza]

Not sure ..he works for Raytheon and half of the time we don't know where
he is at and won't tell. Hush hush double secret probation stuff

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 7:06 AM  wrote:

> Spencers.  I am not a huge fan of Rodizeo.
> What is the event he is attending?
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 27, 2020 6:28 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sali Lake City steak place
>
> Yep . thanks I found it but I think they are going to Spencers
>
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 5:53 PM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:
>
>> Rodizio?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 27, 2020, at 5:50 PM, Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>> What name and address of the Road something place ewe guys go to? My lil
>> brother the EE is there with other EEs .
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE

[Ken Hohhof]

When someone is billed as a “thought leader” you probably know what you’re 
getting, the good and the bad of it.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 11:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium LTE

 

Holy crap, I must be way out of the loop, but I never saw anything on this list 
about "bleary's" situation. I just googled it, that is nuts.

On Thursday, February 27, 2020, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I've been told the attenuation from foliage in 3.5ghz is going to be about 15db 
per 100m.  Obviously that really depends on what specifically is in the way, 
but I think that figure lines up with my observations in the field.  It means 
you can get through trees at a steep angle to a high tower, or you can 
penetrate a wind break or the trees lining a suburban street.  You're not 
literally going to get through a forest whether it's LTE or Wimax or anything 
else.

I believe LTE does have some "magic" to it.  The channel space is divided into 
small subcarriers and the time slots are divided into (I think) 125us chunks.  
The intersection of one time slice and one subcarrier is a resource block.  The 
UE/CPE sends back Channel Quality Indicators (CQI) telling the eNB/Base Station 
the quality of the resource blocks it's receiving.  Then the Base Station can 
consider who's able to receive a resource block before allocating them and 
thereby not waste airtime on resource blocks you won't get and then 
consequently it can waste less airtime on retransmits.  You'll see this as 
better jitter and packet loss compared to another product in the same location. 
 

When you have trees in the way you'll get attenuation no matter which product 
you use, but LTE seems to give you a more consistent outcome with nLOS than 
other stuff does.  It's an incremental improvement over Wimax in that regard, 
and the top end of performance is a lot higher than Wimax so a UE with good 
signal could actually impress you.

That LTE "magic" is definitely a part of the puzzle, along with the power, 
noise, etc that you mention.  To reiterate, it's an incremental improvement 
over Wimax.  If Wimax didn't work at a site, LTE won't either.  We had a some 
places where Wimax was on the bleeding edge (like -85 to -90 RSSI) and LTE 
didn't work at all, so we actually lost a handful of customers in the 
transition from Wimax.  This was worth it in the long run because at sites 
where Wimax had a good signal, LTE was betterand frankly you didn't want 
those CPE with garbage signals anyway.  

If you believed all the hype from a guy who's name rhymed with "bleary" then 
you were probably disappointed with LTE, but if you go in understanding what 
you'll get then I think you'll find it's a useful tool to have.

As an aside, I'm glad to see Ericsson and Cambium getting into this space and 
I'm hoping the competition will raise the bar for quality.  Frankly, quality 
has been the biggest problem with the existing players in LTE for WISPs.

-Adam

 

On 2/27/2020 12:03 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

For years there has been enthusiasm for the idea that 3.5 GHz is suitable for 
NLOS propagation in a way that doesn’t apply to other mid band spectrum like 
2.4, 2.5 or 5 GHz.  Initially is wasn’t clear what type of NLOS people meant – 
urban clutter or foliage – but I think it’s pretty clear people are talking 
about foliage.

 

Why do people expect this?  Is it the frequency, or the protocol like WiMAX and 
now LTE?  Or no theoretical basis, just it works don’t ask why?

 

I can think of several possible explanations, not sure if any of these are why 
people associate 3.65 GHz LTE with NLOS.

 

- 3.65 GHz somehow is absorbed less by foliage than other mid band frequencies

- some feature of the LTE protocol that overcomes NLOS

- LTE equipment has more sensitive receivers

- 3.65 GHz has less interference due to being semi licensed

- some combination of receiver sensitivity and lack of interference

- none of the above but LTE equipment is just made better

 

Maybe it’s real world experience with no theoretical basis.  But I always like 
to know why something works, or doesn’t.  You’d prefer that the reason it works 
isn’t some temporary anomaly.  Like service is really good at this new 
restaurant, because nobody knows about it yet.

 

 

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Eric Muehleisen
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 10:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE

 

Still in winter. I'd like to see how it performs when the leaves are full in 
May.

 

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:26 AM dave mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com> > wrote:

We R starting to see some real world impressive results with just the pmp450i 
CBRS radios on a 20Mhz channels 
This guy is nearLOS about 2.5 miles of some tree and pointing into edge of 
panel 


Current Results Status  

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE

[dave]

Unlike 5Ghz the 3Ghz band has a slightly less chance of surface 
reflection which helps tremendously with propagation thru
folage and the such much like 2.4 but 2.4 has a lower eirp and can be 
absorbed by foliage more easily. This is why u see 5Ghz being used by
radar because it has a much better reflective property than any of the 
bands. 900 not only has a reflective property on certain surfaces but can
burn thru most foliage interestingly enough when I was in the army 
signal core at 12yrs we would use a high power ptp 900mhz system to burn 
across
lakes and rivers to link up sites . It was more effective than the 1Ghz 
stuff we used.


maybe mostly theory but this is what I learned from real world experience.



On 2/27/20 11:28 AM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
Lots of wishful thinking combined with a little bit of LTE magic.  5 
on your list would be my vote - receiver sensitivity and lack of 
interference.


You left out the other adder - running at illegal power output levels 
at the base station for the NN licenses.


LTE certainly has significantly better receiver sensitivity than our 
normal solutions -  but it comes at a pretty high cost in throughput. 
   So yeah, you can run NLOS in 3.65 and it works as long as the noise 
floor stays low and you don’t care much about the overall capacity of 
the base station.


Under CBRS running at even higher power levels makes it push through 
into NLOS a bit more, but the noise floor overall is also going to 
come up so it may be something of a wash in the end.


Mark

On Feb 27, 2020, at 12:03 PM, Ken Hohhof > wrote:


For years there has been enthusiasm for the idea that 3.5 GHz is 
suitable for NLOS propagation in a way that doesn’t apply to other 
mid band spectrum like 2.4, 2.5 or 5 GHz.  Initially is wasn’t clear 
what type of NLOS people meant – urban clutter or foliage – but I 
think it’s pretty clear people are talking about foliage.
Why do people expect this?  Is it the frequency, or the protocol like 
WiMAX and now LTE?  Or no theoretical basis, just it works don’t ask why?
I can think of several possible explanations, not sure if any of 
these are why people associate 3.65 GHz LTE with NLOS.
- 3.65 GHz somehow is absorbed less by foliage than other mid band 
frequencies

- some feature of the LTE protocol that overcomes NLOS
- LTE equipment has more sensitive receivers
- 3.65 GHz has less interference due to being semi licensed
- some combination of receiver sensitivity and lack of interference
- none of the above but LTE equipment is just made better
Maybe it’s real world experience with no theoretical basis.  But I 
always like to know why something works, or doesn’t.  You’d prefer 
that the reason it works isn’t some temporary anomaly.  Like service 
is really good at this new restaurant, because nobody knows about it yet.
*From:*AF >*On Behalf Of*Eric Muehleisen

*Sent:*Thursday, February 27, 2020 10:29 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE
Still in winter. I'd like to see how it performs when the leaves are 
full in May.
On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:26 AM dave > wrote:


We R starting to see some real world impressive results with just the 
pmp450i CBRS radios on a 20Mhz channels
This guy is nearLOS about 2.5 miles of some tree and pointing into 
edge of panel



Current Results Status

Stats for LUID: 65   Test Duration: 10   Pkt Length: 1714   Test 
Direction Bi-Directional


*Link Test without Bridging*
*Data
Channel
Priority*

*Downlink*

*Uplink*

*Aggregate*

*Packet Transmit*

*Packet Receive*
*Actual*

*Actual*
Low

50.01 Mbps

32.97 Mbps

82.98 Mbps,  6008 pps

23887 (2388 pps)

36207 (3620 pps)



*Efficiency*
*Downlink*

*Uplink*
*Efficiency*

*Fragments
count*

*Efficiency*

*Fragments
count*
*Actual*

*Missed*

*Actual*

*Missed*
99%

984301

7409

99%

647582

3593


Link Test ran on 15:20:50 02/27/2020 UTC

*Currently transmitting at:*
8X/6X MIMO-B



Current Contention Mode Status: No Piggyback of data in contention


On 2/25/20 3:59 PM, Matt Mangriotis via AF wrote:
I completely understand your skepticism Ken. However, Cambium did 
design the 3 GHz 450m with every intention of being able to support 
a transition to LTE (specifically, as a RRH with cnRanger). The 
intent is for this device to be a fully capable 8x8 MU-MIMO. Yes, 
you’ve got that right though, you’ll need new CPE devices and a BBU 
for each sector.
We don’t have a target date when this will be developed yet… right 
now, we’re focused on getting the cnRanger CBRS 2x2 RRH and High 
Gain Cat 6 CPE devices out in August!
With respect to NLOS coverage, I will agree that 450 is not quite on 
par with some of the things that 

Re: [AFMUG] Sali Lake City steak place

[chuck]

Spencers.  I am not a huge fan of Rodizeo.  
What is the event he is attending?

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 6:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sali Lake City steak place

Yep . thanks I found it but I think they are going to Spencers

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 5:53 PM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

  Rodizio?






On Feb 27, 2020, at 5:50 PM, Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

What name and address of the Road something place ewe guys go to? My lil 
brother the EE is there with other EEs .
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Sali Lake City steak place

[chuck]

Hmmm, not ringing a bell.  Red Iguana is my #1 fav.  Ruth’s Chris is always 
good but terribly expensive. Texas Roadhouse is popular.  I am not a steak guy. 
 

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 5:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Chuck McCown 
Subject: Sali Lake City steak place

What name and address of the Road something place ewe guys go to? My lil 
brother the EE is there with other EEs .-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium LTE

[dave]

We may see a few points I suspect but the result should be same or very 
close as we see on any of our pre cbrs units.
Here is one thats about a mile thru some tree. This area I am giving 
results is not in any way flat. It has Hills cliffs lakes and many types 
of tree.
I am still onboarding our network to cbrs and I have larger sites with 
300+ subs at 6mile with similar or better numbers on the medusa 
including the ones in a far

enviroment. Lots have this performance on a 15Mhz wide channel.
 We estimate to see double this on our medusas when we move them to cbrs.

I have been fighting with the worst in terrain and tree imaginable since 
the canopy days and I feel like I have been able to overcome some 
serious challenges with our very rural area.


Oh, forgot to mention that heart Drs and surgeons build in the stix too LOL


   Link Test Configurations

Link Test Mode :

Signal to Noise Ratio Calculation during Link Test :
Enabled
Disabled
Link Test with All Available Data Channels :
All Available Data Channels
Low Priority Channel only
Note: All Available Data Channels option requires that the SM already 
has at least one additional data channel enabled.



   Link Test Settings

Duration :  
Seconds (2 — 10)
Direction : 

Number of Packets :
(0 — 64) Zero will flood the link for duration of test
Packet Length :
Bytes (64 — 1714 bytes)


   Current Results Status

Stats for LUID: 63   Test Duration: 10   Pkt Length: 1714   Test 
Direction Bi-Directional


*Link Test without Bridging*
Data
Channel
PriorityDownlinkUplink  Aggregate   Packet Transmit 
Packet Receive
Actual  Actual
Low 	103.17 Mbps 	21.94 Mbps 	125.11 Mbps,  9054 pps 	15893 (1589 pps) 
74657 (7465 pps)




*Efficiency*
DownlinkUplink
Efficiency  Fragments
count   Efficiency  Fragments
count
Actual  Missed  Actual  Missed
99% 2015121 75  99% 430607  1918


Link Test ran on 13:40:08 02/28/2020 UTC

*Currently transmitting at:*
8X/4X MIMO-B



Current Contention Mode Status: No Piggyback of data in contention


On 2/27/20 10:28 AM, Eric Muehleisen wrote:
Still in winter. I'd like to see how it performs when the leaves are 
full in May.


On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:26 AM dave > wrote:


We R starting to see some real world impressive results with just
the pmp450i CBRS radios on a 20Mhz channels
This guy is nearLOS about 2.5 miles of some tree and pointing into
edge of panel


Current Results Status

Stats for LUID: 65   Test Duration: 10   Pkt Length: 1714   Test
Direction Bi-Directional

*Link Test without Bridging*
Data
Channel
PriorityDownlinkUplink  Aggregate   Packet Transmit 
Packet
Receive
Actual  Actual
Low 50.01 Mbps  32.97 Mbps  82.98 Mbps,  6008 pps   23887 
(2388
pps)36207 (3620 pps)



*Efficiency*
DownlinkUplink
Efficiency  Fragments
count   Efficiency  Fragments
count
Actual  Missed  Actual  Missed
99% 984301  740999% 647582  3593


Link Test ran on 15:20:50 02/27/2020 UTC

*Currently transmitting at:*
8X/6X MIMO-B



Current Contention Mode Status: No Piggyback of data in contention

On 2/25/20 3:59 PM, Matt Mangriotis via AF wrote:


I completely understand your skepticism Ken. However, Cambium did
design the 3 GHz 450m with every intention of being able to
support a transition to LTE (specifically, as a RRH with
cnRanger). The intent is for this device to be a fully capable
8x8 MU-MIMO. Yes, you’ve got that right though, you’ll need new
CPE devices and a BBU for each sector.

We don’t have a target date when this will be developed yet…
right now, we’re focused on getting the cnRanger CBRS 2x2 RRH and
High Gain Cat 6 CPE devices out in August!

With respect to NLOS coverage, I will agree that 450 is not quite
on par with some of the things that LTE brings to the table
(regarding range and the ability to maintain the downlink).
However, with the increased power limits of CBRS, the 450m does
an admirable job. In fact, in comparing equipment cost and
performance, I would suggest that the 450 platform outperforms
anything out there. That is, it’s less expensive to get bandwidth
where it needs to be (at a higher rate, and to more customers).
If the customer density can support the cost of cnMedusa, you’re
going to be better off from total cost of ownership (both CapEx
and OpEx) perspective.

The new 3GHz 450b High Gain has 29 dBm Tx Pwr, and a 20 dBi dish
integrated antenna… this is pretty impressive for CBRS CPE
equipment (most of the high gain/high power LTE stuff I see is
only going to be 23 dBm Tx, plus 15 dBi antenna).

There are several customers out there that have done these
comparisons… hopefully, they can chime