Re: [AFMUG] American Tower trying to renegotiate Tower Lease with landlord

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Brian,

Do you have any links to the federal law requiring another tower be allowed
to be built in lieu of the zoning?

Thanks.

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 3:54 PM Brian Webster 
wrote:

> Lewis covers a lot of the points I would.
>
>
>
> I have done some consulting for a university that was approached
> similarly. The tower company was fixated on some parts of the lease but
> never focused on things like escalations and such. We did the amortizations
> of the escalators and they still over time would exceed the rent they are
> collecting. So moral of the story is make sure he get in writing the
> document they would like to renegotiate before you put too much time in it.
> Have them produce an executable version, not just an email highlighting
> what they want to do. In the end the legal signed document is the only
> thing that matters.
>
>
>
> Other points to consider. They are calling your bluff. The amount you want
> to negotiate back you need to know seriously what their other options are.
> Strict zoning is one thing but one of the justifications for forcing a
> municipality to allow a new tower by federal law is the economic clause.
> They could easily make the case for a new tower if they can prove that
> their rent will exceed the rent they receive, but beware. Their lease with
> eh carrier may have clauses to deal with that and they can increase the
> rent to the carrier based on their ground lease. This is not always the
> case though.
>
>
>
> Look at the tower companies termination options. Do they have the right to
> terminate at each 5 year renewal? Are they required to return the site back
> to previous state prior to building? Does the landowner have the right to
> assume the tower in its current state if they chose not to renew?  All
> serious points to consider in their offer for renegotiation. If it is
> possible for the landowner to keep the tower if they terminate that might
> be a good move and then just sign a reasonable lease with the carrier and
> keep the revenue. But if the tower company wants to play hard ball they may
> take the tower down with no option for the landowner to keep it standing,
> that would include ripping up the tower foundation.
>
>
>
> Have the landowner clearly research and understand all of these points.
> Then decide if renegotiation is smart. Better to have the site stay there
> producing revenue even if it is less, than to possibly lose all totally in
> the near future. But the legal documents are going to be that key. Also
> research the tax implications on taking the lump sum option. In some cases
> that might get taxed at over 50%.
>
>
>
> Bottom line, play devil’s advocate and think about what the worst case
> situation is going to be with your decision.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 2:24 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] American Tower trying to renegotiate Tower Lease
> with landlord
>
>
>
> Lots of things to talk about here but lets hit the high points. Tower
> companies are getting squeezed by carriers.
>
>1. First I'll say I really don't like term escalations, I favor
>annual. Since they are already trying to back down their costs that one is
>a non starter but we can get back to that.
>2. A populated city is like saying a large lake. If you live next to
>Superior, nothing is a large lake. What population are we talking about?
>3. Don't ever give anything without getting something. If your friend
>is worried, maybe a smaller fixed payment and a large % of revenue would
>reduce their risk and make he gets a fair share of the revenue.
>4. Look to recent municipal leases as they typically disclose a lot of
>info about the final negotiations.
>5. Depending on his age, maybe the lump sum is a good deal, negotiated
>higher of course. If he is looking for a good way to pass along revenue to
>heirs, maybe not.
>6. He doesn't own the tower so can't negotiate directly with Verizon
>unless he is going to build one or let them do it.
>
> I have seen Verizon (not American) move off of a tower and build one 1/4
> mile away when they didn't like terms. The terms were that they wanted a
> tower completely rebuilt, but didn't want to pay any additional fees to
> have it replaced for the extra load. So they will move.
>
>
>
> If it were me, not knowing anything else about the situation, I would come
> back with $6000 per year, increase annually at 3% and 33% of the revenue
> paid Jan1 for the prior year and see what happens. Annual audits with
> unsolicieted revenue statements mailed yearly with the check., yada, yada.
> I am making assumptions on what revenue might be since no pops were given.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:05 AM Kurt Fankhauser 
> wrote:
>
> Someone I know owns a property with a mono-pole on it owned 

Re: [AFMUG] Smart Antenna Alignment review?

[Steve Jones]

If you can find one someone will let you borrow, you will see. The guy that
let me borrow his let me have it for two weeks. But that was at the
beginning of the end of the world, he picked it up last week. We actually
only used it at one site. Ease of use was important. I had the two techs
watch the videos, no other training. I got back a perfect data set. No more
wondering if that odd subscriber number is an off azimuth or roll.

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 9:59 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> Yep, that and the optic.
> I thought about using it on an omni we are putting up just for super
> accurate gps and roll and to take a wtf pic
>
> GME does a fair price on it.
>
> We decided to do our own bracket for dish alignments. We figure getting
> the first side 99 percent dialed in then going to the other side, we may
> not have to return to the first for fine alignment.
>
> We demoed it, the site we went to every ap was a mess. The reports are
> awesome.
>
> I think it would be really awesome if cambium would team up with them for
> a promo on one of these bad boys and cnheat.
>
> This actually was a hard sell on me. I reviewed and asked around. Got
> enough info, and the boss signed off. But til I had one in my hands I
> couldn't pull the trigger. Had it been my money, I'd have grabbed it in a
> heart beat, but spending that much boss coin has serious consequenses if
> it's a bad choice.
>  But like I said, 10 second in and the deal was closed.
> The reports alone are worth having one
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 9:05 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Wow, you got the boss to spring for a $5,999 tool?  Did you use Jedi mind
>> tricks?
>>
>>
>>
>> On their web page they have a photo of it being used on what looks like
>> an omni.  How do you aim an omni?  Or is that actually multiple sectors in
>> a can or something?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 8:26 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Smart Antenna Alignment review?
>>
>>
>>
>> Got a brand new one sitting at the office in a sweet pelican case.
>> Borrowed one, in 10 seconds we knew we were buying it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 5:41 PM Tushar Patel  wrote:
>>
>> Time has come for us to get a little more accuracy on our sector antennas.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any input on the following product?
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.multiwavesensors.com/antenna-alignment/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tushar
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Smart Antenna Alignment review?

[Steve Jones]

Yep, that and the optic.
I thought about using it on an omni we are putting up just for super
accurate gps and roll and to take a wtf pic

GME does a fair price on it.

We decided to do our own bracket for dish alignments. We figure getting the
first side 99 percent dialed in then going to the other side, we may not
have to return to the first for fine alignment.

We demoed it, the site we went to every ap was a mess. The reports are
awesome.

I think it would be really awesome if cambium would team up with them for a
promo on one of these bad boys and cnheat.

This actually was a hard sell on me. I reviewed and asked around. Got
enough info, and the boss signed off. But til I had one in my hands I
couldn't pull the trigger. Had it been my money, I'd have grabbed it in a
heart beat, but spending that much boss coin has serious consequenses if
it's a bad choice.
 But like I said, 10 second in and the deal was closed.
The reports alone are worth having one

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 9:05 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Wow, you got the boss to spring for a $5,999 tool?  Did you use Jedi mind
> tricks?
>
>
>
> On their web page they have a photo of it being used on what looks like an
> omni.  How do you aim an omni?  Or is that actually multiple sectors in a
> can or something?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 8:26 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Smart Antenna Alignment review?
>
>
>
> Got a brand new one sitting at the office in a sweet pelican case.
> Borrowed one, in 10 seconds we knew we were buying it.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 5:41 PM Tushar Patel  wrote:
>
> Time has come for us to get a little more accuracy on our sector antennas.
>
>
>
> Any input on the following product?
>
>
>
> http://www.multiwavesensors.com/antenna-alignment/
>
>
>
>
>
> Tushar
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Smart Antenna Alignment review?

[Ken Hohhof]

Wow, you got the boss to spring for a $5,999 tool?  Did you use Jedi mind 
tricks?

 

On their web page they have a photo of it being used on what looks like an 
omni.  How do you aim an omni?  Or is that actually multiple sectors in a can 
or something?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 8:26 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Smart Antenna Alignment review?

 

Got a brand new one sitting at the office in a sweet pelican case. Borrowed 
one, in 10 seconds we knew we were buying it. 

 

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 5:41 PM Tushar Patel mailto:tpa...@ecpi.com> > wrote:

Time has come for us to get a little more accuracy on our sector antennas.

 

Any input on the following product?

 

http://www.multiwavesensors.com/antenna-alignment/

 

 

Tushar

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Re: [AFMUG] OT some relief

[Steve Jones]

There's a roku channel with nothing but that. Dont recall what its called,
tons of hidden gems though

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 6:26 PM  wrote:

> My favorite local art house has started streaming all their films now.
> At least I can pretend to be downtown at the movies now.
>
> They have the odd quirky stuff, many sundance winners.  Sometimes their
> quirky stuff goes national, like Napoleon Dynamite.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Steve Jones]

Tons of tin foil in this thread, not often, if ever, I stop reading an
afmug thread

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 7:38 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> I can beat your November 2019 with this excerpt from an interview with
> Anthony Fauci from a year ago.
>
>
> https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dr-fauci-has-been-dreading-a-pandemic-like-covid-19-for-years/
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 4/8/2020 2:30 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
>
> https://kvia.com/your-voice-your-vote/politics/2020/04/08/cnn-poll-majority-of-americans-now-say-the-federal-government-has-done-a-poor-job-of-preventing-coronavirus-spread/?fbclid=IwAR0UNYN4lz7YUfj1mKlgKXQk1_7ETsC6jQwsLNIJ3-Qto3ZnT1cJb_uh_Eg
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 7:44 PM  wrote:
>
>> Put on gloves and a mask to pick up a few things at the grocery store.
>> Walked in and there was a construction worker in a mask, then a soccer
>> mom then a skinny redneck, with his skinny redneck wife.  Started
>> clucking like a chicken when he saw me and his wife was taking a video.
>> Was not quite calling me a chicken loud enough that I could clearly make
>> out exactly what he was doing, but was grandstanding for his skanky
>> woman
>>
>> Funny how fast my natural pugilistic nature of my youth sprung into
>> action.  I literally had to stop myself from backing him into a display of
>> pork and beans with some comments of “you got a problem with me”.  Visions
>> of a throat punch were clear in my head...
>>
>> But I calmed myself, reminded myself that going to jail or the ER or a
>> dentist would not be fun this evening, and moved alone.  Ran into a handful
>> of other chickens on the way out the store.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Smart Antenna Alignment review?

[Steve Jones]

Got a brand new one sitting at the office in a sweet pelican case. Borrowed
one, in 10 seconds we knew we were buying it.

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 5:41 PM Tushar Patel  wrote:

> Time has come for us to get a little more accuracy on our sector antennas.
>
>
>
> Any input on the following product?
>
>
>
> http://www.multiwavesensors.com/antenna-alignment/
>
>
>
>
>
> Tushar
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I can beat your November 2019 with this excerpt from an interview
  with Anthony Fauci from a year ago.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dr-fauci-has-been-dreading-a-pandemic-like-covid-19-for-years/


bp



On 4/8/2020 2:30 PM, Jaime Solorza
  wrote:


  
  https://kvia.com/your-voice-your-vote/politics/2020/04/08/cnn-poll-majority-of-americans-now-say-the-federal-government-has-done-a-poor-job-of-preventing-coronavirus-spread/?fbclid=IwAR0UNYN4lz7YUfj1mKlgKXQk1_7ETsC6jQwsLNIJ3-Qto3ZnT1cJb_uh_Eg
  
  
On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 7:44 PM
  
  wrote:


  

  
Put on gloves and a mask to pick up a few things at
  the grocery store.  Walked in and there was a
  construction worker in a mask, then a soccer mom
  then a skinny redneck, with his skinny redneck wife. 
  Started clucking like a chicken when he saw me and his
  wife was taking a video.  Was not quite calling me a
  chicken loud enough that I could clearly make out
  exactly what he was doing, but was grandstanding for
  his skanky woman
 
Funny how fast my natural pugilistic nature of my
  youth sprung into action.  I literally had to stop
  myself from backing him into a display of pork and
  beans with some comments of “you got a problem with
  me”.  Visions of a throat punch were clear in my
  head...
 
But I calmed myself, reminded myself that going to
  jail or the ER or a dentist would not be fun this
  evening, and moved alone.  Ran into a handful of other
  chickens on the way out the store.  
  

  
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  
  
  

  


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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 60ghz

[Mike Meluskey]

Or buy some Ignitenet…..it just works.

On 8 Apr 2020, at 19:39, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Q3 2020.  Apply the fudge factor of your choice.  Maybe email Allen Yu 
and

ask when they will be available for preorder.  Maybe get in on a beta?



One of the products they said was pushed out a few months due to 
supply

chain disruption, but I don't remember which.



From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 6:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 60ghz



That sounds about right, I have the perfect application for this, just
wondering how soon I can get it.

On 4/8/2020 6:02 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

I thought i seen something like 500 meters max distance with the 
higher gain

CPE and the lower gain CPE was like 250'ish meters. I could be wrong.



On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 5:35 PM Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> > wrote:

Do you remember when it was coming out?   I thought it was supposed to 
be

just a month or 2.  Or was it Q3/4?

On 4/7/2020 8:10 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

I'm pretty confident they priced 2-3 models for the 60 GHz stuff.




Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373





On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 9:01 AM Eric Muehleisen mailto:ericm...@gmail.com> > wrote:

A few of my notes...



Basestation V5000 - List $999

10 Gbps

140 degree coverage

Mesh capable

SFP+ uplink



Subscriber SM V3000 - List $199

1 Gbps

35 degree

SFP uplink



On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:06 PM Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> > wrote:

I looked through the WISPA Webinar and questions, and I remember 
getting

all these answers, but they must have answered it in the audio part of
the presentation because I didn't see them in the slides, or the typed 
Q/A.


When is it coming out?
What is the pricing?
Does it have a 5ghz backup?



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Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Lewis Bergman]

My experience with doctor are they are, on average, not all that
intelligent although willing to work long hours and put of reward now for
lots more later. They also sick at praying there bills.

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 6:50 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Interesting how low O2 might not be as bad as the numbers say because CO2
> is also low.  And that just oxygen through those little tubes in your nose
> with no pressure might be just as good or better.
>
>
>
> I think we treat doctors like infallible gods.  I used to believe
> everything they said.  Over time I have become more skeptical.  I think
> sometimes they do things because that’s what they always do.  Or in normal
> times because it’s what insurance will pay for or what makes the most money
> for their employer, I don’t think that is the case now.  It’s interesting
> the big hit on hospital revenues and profits right now is that all the
> elective procedures are being put off, and that’s where they make a lot of
> their money.  It’s also interesting that with people staying home, there’s
> less car accidents and shootings and stuff, so nearly all the ER cases are
> Covid.  Except for all the people sick, dying, and out of work, life is
> actually better during a pandemic.  People are spending time with their
> kids and walking the dog and exercising.  Pollution is down.  Gas is
> cheap.  Doesn’t make up for the bad stuff though.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 6:20 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
>
>
>
> Does not sound pleasant.  And if it makes things worse...  Maybe they will
> have one of those plastic diving bell things instead.  Or does that make it
> worse too?
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:00 PM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
>
>
>
> I’m starting to think if I get sent to the hospital I need to try and make
> clear I don’t want to be intubated.
>
>
> https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-overused-for-covid-19/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 4:53 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
>
>
>
> Some of the analysis I've been reading has speculated that there is some
> genetic component to this; sort of like HIV does not affect approximately
> 20% of the population who have a certain genetic mutation. There is a
> growing consensus that the pneumonia is only one aspect of the infection.
> Sure, it can be bad, but it's not been the main factor when people die. The
> second thing appears to be some sort of immune system over-reaction. People
> who have the extreme immune reaction seem to be at a real disadvantage.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 4/8/2020 2:34 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> It’s so strange that some people are asymptomatic.  Yet for many people
> the symptoms are terrible and go on for a long time.  Like Chris Cuomo has
> described (not sure why he’s still on TV).  Or I read that Amy Klobuchar’s
> husband had to go to the hospital when he started puking up blood.  It
> can’t just be age or underlying conditions, those are both relatively young
> people in good health.  Yet other people don’t even know they had it, I
> guess they’re the Typhoid Mary’s of Covid 19.
>
>
>
> Maybe there’s a genetic factor to what you’re describing.
>
>
>
> Supposedly the limiting factor to how many people can be put on
> ventilators might be they are running out of the sedatives they use when
> they intubate people.  And they’re running out of swabs to test people.
> Damn, can’t we make anything?  I guess the “just in time” economy is
> literally killing us.
>
>
>
> I read something about Finland being the preppers of the Baltic.  Unlike
> Sweden and Norway they are still paranoid about Russia and have maintained
> their Cold War era preparedness.  They probably have lots of toilet paper.
> They also have lots of medical equipment and PPE, although if they are N95
> masks from 1950 they might not be in prime condition.  Apparently Finland
> shares a border with Russia and has access only to the Baltic Sea, not the
> North Atlantic.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  *On
> Behalf Of *Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 3:51 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
>
>
>
> There is an antibody test now available and a lab in town here doing it.
> Priority is given to first responders, and it's already a month out.
> However, I read an article yesterday that had lots of info on how the virus
> acts and they were saying ventilators may be making it worse. Apparently,
> the virus latches on to the heme in your hemoglobin in your red cells,
> disassociating the toxic oxidative iron ion that attracts the O2. This
> prevents O2 from bonding to the red blood cells. To make matters worse, it
> is 

Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Bill Prince]

  
  
There's a reason they call it "practicing medicine".

bp



On 4/8/2020 4:49 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
Interesting how low O2 might not be as bad
  as the numbers say because CO2 is also low.  And that just
  oxygen through those little tubes in your nose with no
  pressure might be just as good or better.
 
I think we treat doctors like infallible
  gods.  I used to believe everything they said.  Over time I
  have become more skeptical.  I think sometimes they do things
  because that’s what they always do.  Or in normal times
  because it’s what insurance will pay for or what makes the
  most money for their employer, I don’t think that is the case
  now.  It’s interesting the big hit on hospital revenues and
  profits right now is that all the elective procedures are
  being put off, and that’s where they make a lot of their
  money.  It’s also interesting that with people staying home,
  there’s less car accidents and shootings and stuff, so nearly
  all the ER cases are Covid.  Except for all the people sick,
  dying, and out of work, life is actually better during a
  pandemic.  People are spending time with their kids and
  walking the dog and exercising.  Pollution is down.  Gas is
  cheap.  Doesn’t make up for the bad stuff though.
 
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 6:20 PM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
  
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
  

 

  

  Does not sound
  pleasant.  And if it makes things worse...  Maybe they
  will have one of those plastic diving bell things
  instead.  Or does that make it worse too?


  

   


  
From:
Ken Hohhof 
  
  
Sent:
Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:00 PM
  
  
To:
'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  
  
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
  

  
  
 
  


  I’m
  starting to think if I get sent to the hospital I need
  to try and make clear I don’t want to be intubated.
  https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-overused-for-covid-19/
   
   
  

  From: AF 
  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
  Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 4:53 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

  
   
  Some of the
  analysis I've been reading has speculated that there
  is some genetic component to this; sort of like HIV
  does not affect approximately 20% of the population
  who have a certain genetic mutation. There is a
  growing consensus that the pneumonia is only one
  aspect of the infection. Sure, it can be bad, but it's
  not been the main factor when people die. The second
  thing appears to be some sort of immune system
  over-reaction. People who have the extreme immune
  reaction seem to be at a real disadvantage. 
   
  bp
  
   
  
On
4/8/2020 2:34 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
  
  
It’s so
strange that some people are asymptomatic.  Yet for
many people the symptoms are terrible and go on for
a long time.  Like Chris Cuomo has described (not
sure why he’s still on TV).  Or I read that Amy
Klobuchar’s husband had to go to the hospital when
he started puking up blood.  It can’t just be age or
underlying conditions, those are both relatively
young people in good health.  Yet other people don’t
even know they had it, I guess they’re the Typhoid
Mary’s of Covid 19.
 
Maybe
   

Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Ken Hohhof]

The key to the next phase is testing, and we’re still not out in front of it.

 

I’m hearing people saying maybe the time to test for who has it has passed and 
we can’t get that toothpaste back in the tube, that was for a containment 
strategy, and as you say we missed the window for that.  But they’re talking 
about serological antibody testing to see who has recovered and is immune.  I 
want to hear that we are ramping that up to be ready once mitigation has 
worked.  Because that’s how we restart the economy and get society back to any 
semblance of normal.  But it’s hard to be optimistic we’ll finally get it right.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 6:55 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

 

But the whole world hasn't miffed this thing..   S. Korea, N. Korea, New 
Zealand, Arab States, partially Japan, some of the russian federation states, 
all managed to deal with it up front.  IF you got out in front of it, it was 
manageable..

On 4/8/20 3:39 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Jaime,

At the risk of breaking Lent, you gotta steel yourself man.  

 

Just like learning a dear friend or relative has a terminal illness, you have 
to mentally prepare for 4 more years of a “very stable genius” with the “best 
words”.  

 

Sorry dude...  I am a Romney man...

 

(But to address the link you sent, I don’t think we have done any worse than 
Italy, France or Iran...  the whole world has muffed this thing).

 

From: Jaime Solorza 

Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 3:30 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

 

https://kvia.com/your-voice-your-vote/politics/2020/04/08/cnn-poll-majority-of-americans-now-say-the-federal-government-has-done-a-poor-job-of-preventing-coronavirus-spread/?fbclid=IwAR0UNYN4lz7YUfj1mKlgKXQk1_7ETsC6jQwsLNIJ3-Qto3ZnT1cJb_uh_Eg

 

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 7:44 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Put on gloves and a mask to pick up a few things at the grocery store.  Walked 
in and there was a construction worker in a mask, then a soccer mom then a 
skinny redneck, with his skinny redneck wife.  Started clucking like a chicken 
when he saw me and his wife was taking a video.  Was not quite calling me a 
chicken loud enough that I could clearly make out exactly what he was doing, 
but was grandstanding for his skanky woman

 

Funny how fast my natural pugilistic nature of my youth sprung into action.  I 
literally had to stop myself from backing him into a display of pork and beans 
with some comments of “you got a problem with me”.  Visions of a throat punch 
were clear in my head...

 

But I calmed myself, reminded myself that going to jail or the ER or a dentist 
would not be fun this evening, and moved alone.  Ran into a handful of other 
chickens on the way out the store.  

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


  _  


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Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Robert]

But the whole world hasn't miffed this thing..   S. Korea, N. Korea, New 
Zealand, Arab States, partially Japan, some of the russian federation 
states, all managed to deal with it up front. IF you got out in front of 
it, it was manageable..


On 4/8/20 3:39 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Jaime,
At the risk of breaking Lent, you gotta steel yourself man.
Just like learning a dear friend or relative has a terminal illness, 
you have to mentally prepare for 4 more years of a “very stable 
genius” with the “best words”.

Sorry dude...  I am a Romney man...
(But to address the link you sent, I don’t think we have done any 
worse than Italy, France or Iran...  the whole world has muffed this 
thing).

*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 3:30 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
https://kvia.com/your-voice-your-vote/politics/2020/04/08/cnn-poll-majority-of-americans-now-say-the-federal-government-has-done-a-poor-job-of-preventing-coronavirus-spread/?fbclid=IwAR0UNYN4lz7YUfj1mKlgKXQk1_7ETsC6jQwsLNIJ3-Qto3ZnT1cJb_uh_Eg
On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 7:44 PM  wrote:

Put on gloves and a mask to pick up a few things at the grocery
store.  Walked in and there was a construction worker in a mask,
then a soccer mom then a skinny redneck, with his skinny
redneck wife.  Started clucking like a chicken when he saw me and
his wife was taking a video.  Was not quite calling me a chicken
loud enough that I could clearly make out exactly what he was
doing, but was grandstanding for his skanky woman
Funny how fast my natural pugilistic nature of my youth sprung
into action.  I literally had to stop myself from backing him into
a display of pork and beans with some comments of “you got a
problem with me”.  Visions of a throat punch were clear in my head...
But I calmed myself, reminded myself that going to jail or the ER
or a dentist would not be fun this evening, and moved alone.  Ran
into a handful of other chickens on the way out the store.
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



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Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Ken Hohhof]

Interesting how low O2 might not be as bad as the numbers say because CO2 is 
also low.  And that just oxygen through those little tubes in your nose with no 
pressure might be just as good or better.

 

I think we treat doctors like infallible gods.  I used to believe everything 
they said.  Over time I have become more skeptical.  I think sometimes they do 
things because that’s what they always do.  Or in normal times because it’s 
what insurance will pay for or what makes the most money for their employer, I 
don’t think that is the case now.  It’s interesting the big hit on hospital 
revenues and profits right now is that all the elective procedures are being 
put off, and that’s where they make a lot of their money.  It’s also 
interesting that with people staying home, there’s less car accidents and 
shootings and stuff, so nearly all the ER cases are Covid.  Except for all the 
people sick, dying, and out of work, life is actually better during a pandemic. 
 People are spending time with their kids and walking the dog and exercising.  
Pollution is down.  Gas is cheap.  Doesn’t make up for the bad stuff though.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 6:20 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

 

Does not sound pleasant.  And if it makes things worse...  Maybe they will have 
one of those plastic diving bell things instead.  Or does that make it worse 
too?

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:00 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

 

I’m starting to think if I get sent to the hospital I need to try and make 
clear I don’t want to be intubated.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-overused-for-covid-19/

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 4:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

 

Some of the analysis I've been reading has speculated that there is some 
genetic component to this; sort of like HIV does not affect approximately 20% 
of the population who have a certain genetic mutation. There is a growing 
consensus that the pneumonia is only one aspect of the infection. Sure, it can 
be bad, but it's not been the main factor when people die. The second thing 
appears to be some sort of immune system over-reaction. People who have the 
extreme immune reaction seem to be at a real disadvantage. 

 

bp

 

On 4/8/2020 2:34 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

It’s so strange that some people are asymptomatic.  Yet for many people the 
symptoms are terrible and go on for a long time.  Like Chris Cuomo has 
described (not sure why he’s still on TV).  Or I read that Amy Klobuchar’s 
husband had to go to the hospital when he started puking up blood.  It can’t 
just be age or underlying conditions, those are both relatively young people in 
good health.  Yet other people don’t even know they had it, I guess they’re the 
Typhoid Mary’s of Covid 19.

 

Maybe there’s a genetic factor to what you’re describing.

 

Supposedly the limiting factor to how many people can be put on ventilators 
might be they are running out of the sedatives they use when they intubate 
people.  And they’re running out of swabs to test people.  Damn, can’t we make 
anything?  I guess the “just in time” economy is literally killing us.

 

I read something about Finland being the preppers of the Baltic.  Unlike Sweden 
and Norway they are still paranoid about Russia and have maintained their Cold 
War era preparedness.  They probably have lots of toilet paper.  They also have 
lots of medical equipment and PPE, although if they are N95 masks from 1950 
they might not be in prime condition.  Apparently Finland shares a border with 
Russia and has access only to the Baltic Sea, not the North Atlantic.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Cameron Crum
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 3:51 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

 

There is an antibody test now available and a lab in town here doing it. 
Priority is given to first responders, and it's already a month out. However, I 
read an article yesterday that had lots of info on how the virus acts and they 
were saying ventilators may be making it worse. Apparently, the virus latches 
on to the heme in your hemoglobin in your red cells, disassociating the toxic 
oxidative iron ion that attracts the O2. This prevents O2 from bonding to the 
red blood cells. To make matters worse, it is a permanent condition and the 
only fix is generating or introducing new red blood cells that can carry 
oxygen. Your kidneys start producing erythropoietin which tells your bone 
marrow to start ramping up production. That toxic iron now running around 
overwhelms the epithelial surface of the lungs which usually takes care of this 
stuff when it occurs naturally. This 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 60ghz

[Ken Hohhof]

Q3 2020.  Apply the fudge factor of your choice.  Maybe email Allen Yu and
ask when they will be available for preorder.  Maybe get in on a beta?

 

One of the products they said was pushed out a few months due to supply
chain disruption, but I don't remember which.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 6:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 60ghz

 

That sounds about right, I have the perfect application for this, just
wondering how soon I can get it.  

On 4/8/2020 6:02 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

I thought i seen something like 500 meters max distance with the higher gain
CPE and the lower gain CPE was like 250'ish meters. I could be wrong.

 

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 5:35 PM Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> > wrote:

Do you remember when it was coming out?   I thought it was supposed to be
just a month or 2.  Or was it Q3/4?  

On 4/7/2020 8:10 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

I'm pretty confident they priced 2-3 models for the 60 GHz stuff.


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 9:01 AM Eric Muehleisen mailto:ericm...@gmail.com> > wrote:

A few of my notes...

 

Basestation V5000 - List $999

10 Gbps

140 degree coverage

Mesh capable

SFP+ uplink

 

Subscriber SM V3000 - List $199

1 Gbps

35 degree 

SFP uplink

 

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:06 PM Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> > wrote:

I looked through the WISPA Webinar and questions, and I remember getting 
all these answers, but they must have answered it in the audio part of 
the presentation because I didn't see them in the slides, or the typed Q/A.

When is it coming out?
What is the pricing?
Does it have a 5ghz backup?



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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 60ghz

[Nate Burke]

That sounds about right, I have the perfect application for this, just 
wondering how soon I can get it.


On 4/8/2020 6:02 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
I thought i seen something like 500 meters max distance with the 
higher gain CPE and the lower gain CPE was like 250'ish meters. I 
could be wrong.


On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 5:35 PM Nate Burke > wrote:


Do you remember when it was coming out?   I thought it was
supposed to be just a month or 2. Or was it Q3/4?

On 4/7/2020 8:10 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

I'm pretty confident they priced 2-3 models for the 60 GHz stuff.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 9:01 AM Eric Muehleisen
mailto:ericm...@gmail.com>> wrote:

A few of my notes...

Basestation V5000 - List $999

10 Gbps

140 degree coverage

Mesh capable

SFP+ uplink

Subscriber SM V3000 - List $199

1 Gbps

35 degree

SFP uplink


On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:06 PM Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>> wrote:

I looked through the WISPA Webinar and questions, and I
remember getting
all these answers, but they must have answered it in the
audio part of
the presentation because I didn't see them in the slides,
or the typed Q/A.

When is it coming out?
What is the pricing?
Does it have a 5ghz backup?



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Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Ken Hohhof]

I’m starting to think if I get sent to the hospital I need to try and make 
clear I don’t want to be intubated.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-overused-for-covid-19/

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 4:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

 

Some of the analysis I've been reading has speculated that there is some 
genetic component to this; sort of like HIV does not affect approximately 20% 
of the population who have a certain genetic mutation. There is a growing 
consensus that the pneumonia is only one aspect of the infection. Sure, it can 
be bad, but it's not been the main factor when people die. The second thing 
appears to be some sort of immune system over-reaction. People who have the 
extreme immune reaction seem to be at a real disadvantage. 

 

bp

 

On 4/8/2020 2:34 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

It’s so strange that some people are asymptomatic.  Yet for many people the 
symptoms are terrible and go on for a long time.  Like Chris Cuomo has 
described (not sure why he’s still on TV).  Or I read that Amy Klobuchar’s 
husband had to go to the hospital when he started puking up blood.  It can’t 
just be age or underlying conditions, those are both relatively young people in 
good health.  Yet other people don’t even know they had it, I guess they’re the 
Typhoid Mary’s of Covid 19.

 

Maybe there’s a genetic factor to what you’re describing.

 

Supposedly the limiting factor to how many people can be put on ventilators 
might be they are running out of the sedatives they use when they intubate 
people.  And they’re running out of swabs to test people.  Damn, can’t we make 
anything?  I guess the “just in time” economy is literally killing us.

 

I read something about Finland being the preppers of the Baltic.  Unlike Sweden 
and Norway they are still paranoid about Russia and have maintained their Cold 
War era preparedness.  They probably have lots of toilet paper.  They also have 
lots of medical equipment and PPE, although if they are N95 masks from 1950 
they might not be in prime condition.  Apparently Finland shares a border with 
Russia and has access only to the Baltic Sea, not the North Atlantic.

 

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of Cameron Crum
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 3:51 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

 

There is an antibody test now available and a lab in town here doing it. 
Priority is given to first responders, and it's already a month out. However, I 
read an article yesterday that had lots of info on how the virus acts and they 
were saying ventilators may be making it worse. Apparently, the virus latches 
on to the heme in your hemoglobin in your red cells, disassociating the toxic 
oxidative iron ion that attracts the O2. This prevents O2 from bonding to the 
red blood cells. To make matters worse, it is a permanent condition and the 
only fix is generating or introducing new red blood cells that can carry 
oxygen. Your kidneys start producing erythropoietin which tells your bone 
marrow to start ramping up production. That toxic iron now running around 
overwhelms the epithelial surface of the lungs which usually takes care of this 
stuff when it occurs naturally. This leads to damage and inflammation in the 
lungs, not pneumonia. So, now your liver kicks up its iron storage capability 
but soon gets overwhelmed and starts releasing ALT which is a cry for help. At 
that point, it is almost too late. If you bone marrow can't produce new red 
cells faster than the virus attacks them, it's all over. No amount of forcing 
air into the lungs will help. Providing pure oxygen like in a hyperbaric 
chamber may, but direct blood transfusions with healthy red cells is the best 
chance as there are not a lot of  hyperbaric chambers around. So, 
Hydroxychloroquine works the same way it does on malaria (which by the way 
attacks hemoglobin as well), by preventing the virus from attaching to the 
hemoglobin. It also lowers the blood pH helping to stop the replication of the 
virus. If you can keep your cells carrying oxygen and slow down virus 
replication, Your body can probably handle the rest. 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 12:15 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

What everyone tries not to talk about is there’s evidently not that much a 
hospital can do.  If you just need IV fluids and oxygen, sure.  But if you need 
one of those ventilators, the prognosis is grim.  It sounds like the survival 
rate for people who are intubated is somewhere in the 20 to 40% range.

 

Obviously if the hospitals get overrun, now you get Italy, where the mortality 
fate even for non-Covid cases skyrockets.

 

I’m agreeing with you here, but we’re buying time until (a) universal testing 
(b) testing to see who has recovered and has at least temporary immunity, (c) 
new therapies being tested that could be 

Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[chuck]

Jaime,
At the risk of breaking Lent, you gotta steel yourself man.  

Just like learning a dear friend or relative has a terminal illness, you have 
to mentally prepare for 4 more years of a “very stable genius” with the “best 
words”.  

Sorry dude...  I am a Romney man...

(But to address the link you sent, I don’t think we have done any worse than 
Italy, France or Iran...  the whole world has muffed this thing).

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 3:30 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

https://kvia.com/your-voice-your-vote/politics/2020/04/08/cnn-poll-majority-of-americans-now-say-the-federal-government-has-done-a-poor-job-of-preventing-coronavirus-spread/?fbclid=IwAR0UNYN4lz7YUfj1mKlgKXQk1_7ETsC6jQwsLNIJ3-Qto3ZnT1cJb_uh_Eg

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 7:44 PM  wrote:

  Put on gloves and a mask to pick up a few things at the grocery store.  
Walked in and there was a construction worker in a mask, then a soccer mom 
then a skinny redneck, with his skinny redneck wife.  Started clucking like a 
chicken when he saw me and his wife was taking a video.  Was not quite calling 
me a chicken loud enough that I could clearly make out exactly what he was 
doing, but was grandstanding for his skanky woman

  Funny how fast my natural pugilistic nature of my youth sprung into action.  
I literally had to stop myself from backing him into a display of pork and 
beans with some comments of “you got a problem with me”.  Visions of a throat 
punch were clear in my head...

  But I calmed myself, reminded myself that going to jail or the ER or a 
dentist would not be fun this evening, and moved alone.  Ran into a handful of 
other chickens on the way out the store.  
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Robert]

Michael Crichton must be spinning in his grave...

On 4/8/20 2:50 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Great movie...watch the trailer...see anything familiar?
https://youtu.be/TL3LXKanzds

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 3:45 PM > wrote:


Sounds like the Andromeda Strain to me.   Anyone got any squeeze
to drink?
*From:* Cameron Crum
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 2:51 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
There is an antibody test now available and a lab in town here
doing it. Priority is given to first responders, and it's already
a month out. However, I read an article yesterday that had lots of
info on how the virus acts and they were saying ventilators may be
making it worse. Apparently, the virus latches on to the heme in
your hemoglobin in your red cells, disassociating the toxic
oxidative iron ion that attracts the O2. This prevents O2 from
bonding to the red blood cells. To make matters worse, it is a
permanent condition and the only fix is generating or introducing
new red blood cells that can carry oxygen. Your kidneys start
producing erythropoietin which tells your bone marrow to start
ramping up production. That toxic iron now running around
overwhelms the epithelial surface of the lungs which usually takes
care of this stuff when it occurs naturally. This leads to damage
and inflammation in the lungs, not pneumonia. So, now your liver
kicks up its iron storage capability but soon gets overwhelmed and
starts releasing ALT which is a cry for help. At that point, it is
almost too late. If you bone marrow can't produce new red cells
faster than the virus attacks them, it's all over. No amount of
forcing air into the lungs will help. Providing pure oxygen like
in a hyperbaric chamber may, but direct blood transfusions with
healthy red cells is the best chance as there are not a lot of
hyperbaric chambers around. So, Hydroxychloroquine works the same
way it does on malaria (which by the way attacks hemoglobin as
well), by preventing the virus from attaching to the hemoglobin.
It also lowers the blood pH helping to stop the replication of the
virus. If you can keep your cells carrying oxygen and slow down
virus replication, Your body can probably handle the rest.
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 12:15 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

What everyone tries not to talk about is there’s evidently not
that much a hospital can do.  If you just need IV fluids and
oxygen, sure.  But if you need one of those ventilators, the
prognosis is grim.  It sounds like the survival rate for
people who are intubated is somewhere in the 20 to 40% range.

Obviously if the hospitals get overrun, now you get Italy,
where the mortality fate even for non-Covid cases skyrockets.

I’m agreeing with you here, but we’re buying time until (a)
universal testing (b) testing to see who has recovered and has
at least temporary immunity, (c) new therapies being tested
that could be more effective than ventilators, and (d) a vaccine.

BTW, the TV news was just talking about Los Angeles where
businesses can now refuse to serve people not wearing masks,
to protect frontline workers in essential businesses. 
Reporter in the field said he observed people talking loudly
about people NOT wearing masks.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Robert
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 11:46 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

We drove 1.5 hrs to a town with no reported infections ( yeah
lot of bs that is ) and were shopping is a safeway for 15
minutes, the safeway had all the precautions and people wiping
stuff down.   Then some lady without a mask ( this is in
California where masks are supposed to be required ) started
hacking up a lung right by the checkout counters, 1/2 way into
her bare elbow.   It was pretty obvious that this wasn't an
ordinary coughing fit.  We were all decked out in PPE but that
drove home decontaminating when we got home.  But the wife
doesn't get it.  8/10's isn't good enough.   We are going to
come down with it somewhere along the line.  It's certain. 
Just hope it is after the hospitals are past the worst point
so that we can get taken care of instead of triaged.  So I
will stay away and hope that I don't get someone else sick...

On 4/7/20 7:22 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

No, sorry.  The redneck and his woman were not wearing masks.

*From:*Matt Hoppes

*Sent:*Tuesday, April 7, 2020 8:11 PM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

Very confused by this 

Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Could also just use a nylon strap. Those would probably last
  longer than the mask.

bp



On 4/8/2020 3:05 PM, Robert wrote:


  
  The failure by age of most N95 masks has to do with the rubber
bands that hold them on.  It's such a simple failure and so
fixable with a touch of ingenuity...   Buy a bunch of bungy cord
and take it apart for the strings of rubber...
  
  On 4/8/20 2:34 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
  
  





  It’s so strange that some people are
asymptomatic.  Yet for many people the symptoms are terrible
and go on for a long time.  Like Chris Cuomo has described
(not sure why he’s still on TV).  Or I read that Amy
Klobuchar’s husband had to go to the hospital when he
started puking up blood.  It can’t just be age or underlying
conditions, those are both relatively young people in good
health.  Yet other people don’t even know they had it, I
guess they’re the Typhoid Mary’s of Covid 19.
   
  Maybe there’s a genetic factor to what
you’re describing.
   
  Supposedly the limiting factor to how
many people can be put on ventilators might be they are
running out of the sedatives they use when they intubate
people.  And they’re running out of swabs to test people. 
Damn, can’t we make anything?  I guess the “just in time”
economy is literally killing us.
   
  I read something about Finland being the
preppers of the Baltic.  Unlike Sweden and Norway they are
still paranoid about Russia and have maintained their Cold
War era preparedness.  They probably have lots of toilet
paper.  They also have lots of medical equipment and PPE,
although if they are N95 masks from 1950 they might not be
in prime condition.  Apparently Finland shares a border with
Russia and has access only to the Baltic Sea, not the North
Atlantic.
   
   
  From: AF 
On Behalf Of Cameron Crum
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 3:51 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
   
  
There is an antibody test now available
  and a lab in town here doing it. Priority is given to
  first responders, and it's already a month out. However, I
  read an article yesterday that had lots of info on how the
  virus acts and they were saying ventilators may be making
  it worse. Apparently, the virus latches on to the heme in
  your hemoglobin in your red cells, disassociating
  the toxic oxidative iron ion that attracts the O2. This
  prevents O2 from bonding to the red blood cells. To make
  matters worse, it is a permanent condition and the only
  fix is generating or introducing new red blood cells that
  can carry oxygen. Your kidneys start producing
  erythropoietin which tells your bone marrow to start
  ramping up production. That toxic iron now running around
  overwhelms the epithelial surface of the lungs which
  usually takes care of this stuff when it occurs naturally.
  This leads to damage and inflammation in the lungs, not
  pneumonia. So, now your liver kicks up its iron storage
  capability but soon gets overwhelmed and starts releasing
  ALT which is a cry for help. At that point, it is almost
  too late. If you bone marrow can't produce new red cells
  faster than the virus attacks them, it's all over. No
  amount of forcing air into the lungs will help. Providing
  pure oxygen like in a hyperbaric chamber may, but direct
  blood transfusions with healthy red cells is the best
  chance as there are not a lot of  hyperbaric chambers
  around. So, Hydroxychloroquine works the same way it does
  on malaria (which by the way attacks hemoglobin as well),
  by preventing the virus from attaching to the hemoglobin.
  It also lowers the blood pH helping to stop the
  replication of the virus. If you can keep your cells
  carrying oxygen and slow down virus replication, Your body
  can probably handle the rest. 

   

  
   
  

  On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 12:15 PM Ken
Hohhof  wrote:


  

  What

Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Robert]

The failure by age of most N95 masks has to do with the rubber bands 
that hold them on.  It's such a simple failure and so fixable with a 
touch of ingenuity...   Buy a bunch of bungy cord and take it apart for 
the strings of rubber...


On 4/8/20 2:34 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


It’s so strange that some people are asymptomatic.  Yet for many 
people the symptoms are terrible and go on for a long time.  Like 
Chris Cuomo has described (not sure why he’s still on TV).  Or I read 
that Amy Klobuchar’s husband had to go to the hospital when he started 
puking up blood.  It can’t just be age or underlying conditions, those 
are both relatively young people in good health.  Yet other people 
don’t even know they had it, I guess they’re the Typhoid Mary’s of 
Covid 19.


Maybe there’s a genetic factor to what you’re describing.

Supposedly the limiting factor to how many people can be put on 
ventilators might be they are running out of the sedatives they use 
when they intubate people.  And they’re running out of swabs to test 
people.  Damn, can’t we make anything?  I guess the “just in time” 
economy is literally killing us.


I read something about Finland being the preppers of the Baltic.  
Unlike Sweden and Norway they are still paranoid about Russia and have 
maintained their Cold War era preparedness.  They probably have lots 
of toilet paper. They also have lots of medical equipment and PPE, 
although if they are N95 masks from 1950 they might not be in prime 
condition.  Apparently Finland shares a border with Russia and has 
access only to the Baltic Sea, not the North Atlantic.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 3:51 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

There is an antibody test now available and a lab in town here doing 
it. Priority is given to first responders, and it's already a month 
out. However, I read an article yesterday that had lots of info on how 
the virus acts and they were saying ventilators may be making it 
worse. Apparently, the virus latches on to the heme in your hemoglobin 
in your red cells, disassociating the toxic oxidative iron ion that 
attracts the O2. This prevents O2 from bonding to the red blood cells. 
To make matters worse, it is a permanent condition and the only fix is 
generating or introducing new red blood cells that can carry oxygen. 
Your kidneys start producing erythropoietin which tells your bone 
marrow to start ramping up production. That toxic iron now running 
around overwhelms the epithelial surface of the lungs which usually 
takes care of this stuff when it occurs naturally. This leads to 
damage and inflammation in the lungs, not pneumonia. So, now your 
liver kicks up its iron storage capability but soon gets overwhelmed 
and starts releasing ALT which is a cry for help. At that point, it is 
almost too late. If you bone marrow can't produce new red cells faster 
than the virus attacks them, it's all over. No amount of forcing air 
into the lungs will help. Providing pure oxygen like in a hyperbaric 
chamber may, but direct blood transfusions with healthy red cells is 
the best chance as there are not a lot of  hyperbaric chambers around. 
So, Hydroxychloroquine works the same way it does on malaria (which by 
the way attacks hemoglobin as well), by preventing the virus from 
attaching to the hemoglobin. It also lowers the blood pH helping to 
stop the replication of the virus. If you can keep your cells carrying 
oxygen and slow down virus replication, Your body can probably handle 
the rest.


On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 12:15 PM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


What everyone tries not to talk about is there’s evidently not
that much a hospital can do.  If you just need IV fluids and
oxygen, sure.  But if you need one of those ventilators, the
prognosis is grim.  It sounds like the survival rate for people
who are intubated is somewhere in the 20 to 40% range.

Obviously if the hospitals get overrun, now you get Italy, where
the mortality fate even for non-Covid cases skyrockets.

I’m agreeing with you here, but we’re buying time until (a)
universal testing (b) testing to see who has recovered and has at
least temporary immunity, (c) new therapies being tested that
could be more effective than ventilators, and (d) a vaccine.

BTW, the TV news was just talking about Los Angeles where
businesses can now refuse to serve people not wearing masks, to
protect frontline workers in essential businesses.  Reporter in
the field said he observed people talking loudly about people NOT
wearing masks.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Robert
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 11:46 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

We drove 1.5 hrs to a town with no reported infections ( yeah lot
of bs that is ) and 

Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[dave]

Once an assclown always an asshat :)


On 4/7/20 10:25 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
I would have probably said something like "I'm wearing this for *your* 
benefit *not* mine.   Don't call me a chicken for protecting your life.".






On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 8:23 PM > wrote:


No, sorry.  The redneck and his woman were not wearing masks.
*From:* Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Tuesday, April 7, 2020 8:11 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
Very confused by this story. Other people wearing masks made fun
of you wearing a mask?

On Apr 7, 2020, at 9:43 PM,   wrote:


Put on gloves and a mask to pick up a few things at the grocery
store.  Walked in and there was a construction worker in a mask,
then a soccer mom then a skinny redneck, with his skinny
redneck wife.  Started clucking like a chicken when he saw me and
his wife was taking a video.  Was not quite calling me a chicken
loud enough that I could clearly make out exactly what he was
doing, but was grandstanding for his skanky woman
Funny how fast my natural pugilistic nature of my youth sprung
into action.  I literally had to stop myself from backing him
into a display of pork and beans with some comments of “you got a
problem with me”.  Visions of a throat punch were clear in my head...
But I calmed myself, reminded myself that going to jail or the ER
or a dentist would not be fun this evening, and moved alone. Ran
into a handful of other chickens on the way out the store.
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
- Forrest



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[dave]

Yeah it sucks getting old :)


On 4/7/20 8:43 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Put on gloves and a mask to pick up a few things at the grocery 
store.  Walked in and there was a construction worker in a mask, then 
a soccer mom then a skinny redneck, with his skinny redneck wife.  
Started clucking like a chicken when he saw me and his wife was taking 
a video.  Was not quite calling me a chicken loud enough that I could 
clearly make out exactly what he was doing, but was grandstanding for 
his skanky woman
Funny how fast my natural pugilistic nature of my youth sprung into 
action.  I literally had to stop myself from backing him into a 
display of pork and beans with some comments of “you got a problem 
with me”.  Visions of a throat punch were clear in my head...
But I calmed myself, reminded myself that going to jail or the ER or a 
dentist would not be fun this evening, and moved alone.  Ran into a 
handful of other chickens on the way out the store.




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Some of the analysis I've been reading has speculated that there
  is some genetic component to this; sort of like HIV does not
  affect approximately 20% of the population who have a certain
  genetic mutation. There is a growing consensus that the pneumonia
  is only one aspect of the infection. Sure, it can be bad, but it's
  not been the main factor when people die. The second thing appears
  to be some sort of immune system over-reaction. People who have
  the extreme immune reaction seem to be at a real disadvantage. 



bp



On 4/8/2020 2:34 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
It’s so strange that some people are
  asymptomatic.  Yet for many people the symptoms are terrible
  and go on for a long time.  Like Chris Cuomo has described
  (not sure why he’s still on TV).  Or I read that Amy
  Klobuchar’s husband had to go to the hospital when he started
  puking up blood.  It can’t just be age or underlying
  conditions, those are both relatively young people in good
  health.  Yet other people don’t even know they had it, I guess
  they’re the Typhoid Mary’s of Covid 19.
 
Maybe there’s a genetic factor to what
  you’re describing.
 
Supposedly the limiting factor to how many
  people can be put on ventilators might be they are running out
  of the sedatives they use when they intubate people.  And
  they’re running out of swabs to test people.  Damn, can’t we
  make anything?  I guess the “just in time” economy is
  literally killing us.
 
I read something about Finland being the
  preppers of the Baltic.  Unlike Sweden and Norway they are
  still paranoid about Russia and have maintained their Cold War
  era preparedness.  They probably have lots of toilet paper. 
  They also have lots of medical equipment and PPE, although if
  they are N95 masks from 1950 they might not be in prime
  condition.  Apparently Finland shares a border with Russia and
  has access only to the Baltic Sea, not the North Atlantic.
 
 
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Cameron
  Crum
  Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 3:51 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
 

  There is an antibody test now available
and a lab in town here doing it. Priority is given to first
responders, and it's already a month out. However, I read an
article yesterday that had lots of info on how the virus
acts and they were saying ventilators may be making it
worse. Apparently, the virus latches on to the heme in your
hemoglobin in your red cells, disassociating the toxic
oxidative iron ion that attracts the O2. This prevents O2
from bonding to the red blood cells. To make matters worse,
it is a permanent condition and the only fix is generating
or introducing new red blood cells that can carry oxygen.
Your kidneys start producing erythropoietin which tells
your bone marrow to start ramping up production. That toxic
iron now running around overwhelms the epithelial surface of
the lungs which usually takes care of this stuff when it
occurs naturally. This leads to damage and inflammation in
the lungs, not pneumonia. So, now your liver kicks up its
iron storage capability but soon gets overwhelmed and starts
releasing ALT which is a cry for help. At that point, it is
almost too late. If you bone marrow can't produce new red
cells faster than the virus attacks them, it's all over. No
amount of forcing air into the lungs will help. Providing
pure oxygen like in a hyperbaric chamber may, but direct
blood transfusions with healthy red cells is the best chance
as there are not a lot of  hyperbaric chambers around. So,
Hydroxychloroquine works the same way it does on malaria
(which by the way attacks hemoglobin as well), by preventing
the virus from attaching to the hemoglobin. It also lowers
the blood pH helping to stop the replication of the virus.
If you can keep your cells carrying oxygen and slow down
virus replication, Your body can probably handle the rest. 
  
 
  

 

  
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 12:15 PM Ken
  Hohhof  wrote:
  
  

  
What
  everyone tries not to talk about is there’s evidently
  

Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Jaime Solorza]

Great movie...watch the trailer...see anything familiar?
https://youtu.be/TL3LXKanzds

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 3:45 PM  wrote:

> Sounds like the Andromeda Strain to me.   Anyone got any squeeze to drink?
>
> *From:* Cameron Crum
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 2:51 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
>
> There is an antibody test now available and a lab in town here doing it.
> Priority is given to first responders, and it's already a month out.
> However, I read an article yesterday that had lots of info on how the virus
> acts and they were saying ventilators may be making it worse. Apparently,
> the virus latches on to the heme in your hemoglobin in your red cells,
> disassociating the toxic oxidative iron ion that attracts the O2. This
> prevents O2 from bonding to the red blood cells. To make matters worse, it
> is a permanent condition and the only fix is generating or introducing new
> red blood cells that can carry oxygen. Your kidneys start producing
> erythropoietin which tells your bone marrow to start ramping up production.
> That toxic iron now running around overwhelms the epithelial surface of the
> lungs which usually takes care of this stuff when it occurs naturally. This
> leads to damage and inflammation in the lungs, not pneumonia. So, now your
> liver kicks up its iron storage capability but soon gets overwhelmed and
> starts releasing ALT which is a cry for help. At that point, it is almost
> too late. If you bone marrow can't produce new red cells faster than the
> virus attacks them, it's all over. No amount of forcing air into the lungs
> will help. Providing pure oxygen like in a hyperbaric chamber may, but
> direct blood transfusions with healthy red cells is the best chance as
> there are not a lot of  hyperbaric chambers around. So, Hydroxychloroquine
> works the same way it does on malaria (which by the way attacks hemoglobin
> as well), by preventing the virus from attaching to the hemoglobin. It also
> lowers the blood pH helping to stop the replication of the virus. If you
> can keep your cells carrying oxygen and slow down virus replication, Your
> body can probably handle the rest.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 12:15 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> What everyone tries not to talk about is there’s evidently not that much
>> a hospital can do.  If you just need IV fluids and oxygen, sure.  But if
>> you need one of those ventilators, the prognosis is grim.  It sounds like
>> the survival rate for people who are intubated is somewhere in the 20 to
>> 40% range.
>>
>>
>>
>> Obviously if the hospitals get overrun, now you get Italy, where the
>> mortality fate even for non-Covid cases skyrockets.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m agreeing with you here, but we’re buying time until (a) universal
>> testing (b) testing to see who has recovered and has at least temporary
>> immunity, (c) new therapies being tested that could be more effective than
>> ventilators, and (d) a vaccine.
>>
>>
>>
>> BTW, the TV news was just talking about Los Angeles where businesses can
>> now refuse to serve people not wearing masks, to protect frontline workers
>> in essential businesses.  Reporter in the field said he observed people
>> talking loudly about people NOT wearing masks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Robert
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 11:46 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
>>
>>
>>
>> We drove 1.5 hrs to a town with no reported infections ( yeah lot of bs
>> that is ) and were shopping is a safeway for 15 minutes, the safeway had
>> all the precautions and people wiping stuff down.   Then some lady without
>> a mask ( this is in California where masks are supposed to be required )
>> started hacking up a lung right by the checkout counters, 1/2 way into her
>> bare elbow.   It was pretty obvious that this wasn't an ordinary coughing
>> fit.  We were all decked out in PPE but that drove home decontaminating
>> when we got home.  But the wife doesn't get it.  8/10's isn't good
>> enough.   We are going to come down with it somewhere along the line.  It's
>> certain.  Just hope it is after the hospitals are past the worst point so
>> that we can get taken care of instead of triaged.  So I will stay away and
>> hope that I don't get someone else sick...
>>
>> On 4/7/20 7:22 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> No, sorry.  The redneck and his woman were not wearing masks.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Matt Hoppes
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 7, 2020 8:11 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
>>
>>
>>
>> Very confused by this story. Other people wearing masks made fun of you
>> wearing a mask?
>>
>>
>> On Apr 7, 2020, at 9:43 PM,   wrote:
>>
>> Put on gloves and a mask to pick up a few things at the grocery store.
>> Walked in and there was a construction worker in a mask, then a soccer
>> mom then a skinny redneck, with his skinny redneck wife.  Started
>> clucking 

Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[chuck]

Sounds like the Andromeda Strain to me.   Anyone got any squeeze to drink?

From: Cameron Crum 
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 2:51 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

There is an antibody test now available and a lab in town here doing it. 
Priority is given to first responders, and it's already a month out. However, I 
read an article yesterday that had lots of info on how the virus acts and they 
were saying ventilators may be making it worse. Apparently, the virus latches 
on to the heme in your hemoglobin in your red cells, disassociating the toxic 
oxidative iron ion that attracts the O2. This prevents O2 from bonding to the 
red blood cells. To make matters worse, it is a permanent condition and the 
only fix is generating or introducing new red blood cells that can carry 
oxygen. Your kidneys start producing erythropoietin which tells your bone 
marrow to start ramping up production. That toxic iron now running around 
overwhelms the epithelial surface of the lungs which usually takes care of this 
stuff when it occurs naturally. This leads to damage and inflammation in the 
lungs, not pneumonia. So, now your liver kicks up its iron storage capability 
but soon gets overwhelmed and starts releasing ALT which is a cry for help. At 
that point, it is almost too late. If you bone marrow can't produce new red 
cells faster than the virus attacks them, it's all over. No amount of forcing 
air into the lungs will help. Providing pure oxygen like in a hyperbaric 
chamber may, but direct blood transfusions with healthy red cells is the best 
chance as there are not a lot of  hyperbaric chambers around. So, 
Hydroxychloroquine works the same way it does on malaria (which by the way 
attacks hemoglobin as well), by preventing the virus from attaching to the 
hemoglobin. It also lowers the blood pH helping to stop the replication of the 
virus. If you can keep your cells carrying oxygen and slow down virus 
replication, Your body can probably handle the rest.  


On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 12:15 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  What everyone tries not to talk about is there’s evidently not that much a 
hospital can do.  If you just need IV fluids and oxygen, sure.  But if you need 
one of those ventilators, the prognosis is grim.  It sounds like the survival 
rate for people who are intubated is somewhere in the 20 to 40% range.



  Obviously if the hospitals get overrun, now you get Italy, where the 
mortality fate even for non-Covid cases skyrockets.



  I’m agreeing with you here, but we’re buying time until (a) universal testing 
(b) testing to see who has recovered and has at least temporary immunity, (c) 
new therapies being tested that could be more effective than ventilators, and 
(d) a vaccine.



  BTW, the TV news was just talking about Los Angeles where businesses can now 
refuse to serve people not wearing masks, to protect frontline workers in 
essential businesses.  Reporter in the field said he observed people talking 
loudly about people NOT wearing masks.





  From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
  Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 11:46 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks



  We drove 1.5 hrs to a town with no reported infections ( yeah lot of bs that 
is ) and were shopping is a safeway for 15 minutes, the safeway had all the 
precautions and people wiping stuff down.   Then some lady without a mask ( 
this is in California where masks are supposed to be required ) started hacking 
up a lung right by the checkout counters, 1/2 way into her bare elbow.   It was 
pretty obvious that this wasn't an ordinary coughing fit.  We were all decked 
out in PPE but that drove home decontaminating when we got home.  But the wife 
doesn't get it.  8/10's isn't good enough.   We are going to come down with it 
somewhere along the line.  It's certain.  Just hope it is after the hospitals 
are past the worst point so that we can get taken care of instead of triaged.  
So I will stay away and hope that I don't get someone else sick...

  On 4/7/20 7:22 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

No, sorry.  The redneck and his woman were not wearing masks.  



From: Matt Hoppes 

Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 8:11 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks



Very confused by this story. Other people wearing masks made fun of you 
wearing a mask?


On Apr 7, 2020, at 9:43 PM,   wrote:

  Put on gloves and a mask to pick up a few things at the grocery store.  
Walked in and there was a construction worker in a mask, then a soccer mom 
then a skinny redneck, with his skinny redneck wife.  Started clucking like a 
chicken when he saw me and his wife was taking a video.  Was not quite calling 
me a chicken loud enough that I could clearly make out exactly what he was 
doing, but was grandstanding for his skanky woman



  Funny how fast my natural pugilistic nature of my youth sprung into 

Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Ken Hohhof]

It’s so strange that some people are asymptomatic.  Yet for many people the 
symptoms are terrible and go on for a long time.  Like Chris Cuomo has 
described (not sure why he’s still on TV).  Or I read that Amy Klobuchar’s 
husband had to go to the hospital when he started puking up blood.  It can’t 
just be age or underlying conditions, those are both relatively young people in 
good health.  Yet other people don’t even know they had it, I guess they’re the 
Typhoid Mary’s of Covid 19.

 

Maybe there’s a genetic factor to what you’re describing.

 

Supposedly the limiting factor to how many people can be put on ventilators 
might be they are running out of the sedatives they use when they intubate 
people.  And they’re running out of swabs to test people.  Damn, can’t we make 
anything?  I guess the “just in time” economy is literally killing us.

 

I read something about Finland being the preppers of the Baltic.  Unlike Sweden 
and Norway they are still paranoid about Russia and have maintained their Cold 
War era preparedness.  They probably have lots of toilet paper.  They also have 
lots of medical equipment and PPE, although if they are N95 masks from 1950 
they might not be in prime condition.  Apparently Finland shares a border with 
Russia and has access only to the Baltic Sea, not the North Atlantic.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Cameron Crum
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 3:51 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

 

There is an antibody test now available and a lab in town here doing it. 
Priority is given to first responders, and it's already a month out. However, I 
read an article yesterday that had lots of info on how the virus acts and they 
were saying ventilators may be making it worse. Apparently, the virus latches 
on to the heme in your hemoglobin in your red cells, disassociating the toxic 
oxidative iron ion that attracts the O2. This prevents O2 from bonding to the 
red blood cells. To make matters worse, it is a permanent condition and the 
only fix is generating or introducing new red blood cells that can carry 
oxygen. Your kidneys start producing erythropoietin which tells your bone 
marrow to start ramping up production. That toxic iron now running around 
overwhelms the epithelial surface of the lungs which usually takes care of this 
stuff when it occurs naturally. This leads to damage and inflammation in the 
lungs, not pneumonia. So, now your liver kicks up its iron storage capability 
but soon gets overwhelmed and starts releasing ALT which is a cry for help. At 
that point, it is almost too late. If you bone marrow can't produce new red 
cells faster than the virus attacks them, it's all over. No amount of forcing 
air into the lungs will help. Providing pure oxygen like in a hyperbaric 
chamber may, but direct blood transfusions with healthy red cells is the best 
chance as there are not a lot of  hyperbaric chambers around. So, 
Hydroxychloroquine works the same way it does on malaria (which by the way 
attacks hemoglobin as well), by preventing the virus from attaching to the 
hemoglobin. It also lowers the blood pH helping to stop the replication of the 
virus. If you can keep your cells carrying oxygen and slow down virus 
replication, Your body can probably handle the rest. 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 12:15 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

What everyone tries not to talk about is there’s evidently not that much a 
hospital can do.  If you just need IV fluids and oxygen, sure.  But if you need 
one of those ventilators, the prognosis is grim.  It sounds like the survival 
rate for people who are intubated is somewhere in the 20 to 40% range.

 

Obviously if the hospitals get overrun, now you get Italy, where the mortality 
fate even for non-Covid cases skyrockets.

 

I’m agreeing with you here, but we’re buying time until (a) universal testing 
(b) testing to see who has recovered and has at least temporary immunity, (c) 
new therapies being tested that could be more effective than ventilators, and 
(d) a vaccine.

 

BTW, the TV news was just talking about Los Angeles where businesses can now 
refuse to serve people not wearing masks, to protect frontline workers in 
essential businesses.  Reporter in the field said he observed people talking 
loudly about people NOT wearing masks.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 11:46 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

 

We drove 1.5 hrs to a town with no reported infections ( yeah lot of bs that is 
) and were shopping is a safeway for 15 minutes, the safeway had all the 
precautions and people wiping stuff down.   Then some lady without a mask ( 
this is in California where masks are supposed to be required ) started hacking 
up a lung right by the checkout counters, 1/2 way into her bare elbow.   It was 
pretty obvious that this wasn't an 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 60ghz

[Nate Burke]

Do you remember when it was coming out?   I thought it was supposed to 
be just a month or 2.  Or was it Q3/4?


On 4/7/2020 8:10 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

I'm pretty confident they priced 2-3 models for the 60 GHz stuff.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 9:01 AM Eric Muehleisen > wrote:


A few of my notes...

Basestation V5000 - List $999

10 Gbps

140 degree coverage

Mesh capable

SFP+ uplink

Subscriber SM V3000 - List $199

1 Gbps

35 degree

SFP uplink


On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:06 PM Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>> wrote:

I looked through the WISPA Webinar and questions, and I
remember getting
all these answers, but they must have answered it in the audio
part of
the presentation because I didn't see them in the slides, or
the typed Q/A.

When is it coming out?
What is the pricing?
Does it have a 5ghz backup?



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Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Jaime Solorza]

https://kvia.com/your-voice-your-vote/politics/2020/04/08/cnn-poll-majority-of-americans-now-say-the-federal-government-has-done-a-poor-job-of-preventing-coronavirus-spread/?fbclid=IwAR0UNYN4lz7YUfj1mKlgKXQk1_7ETsC6jQwsLNIJ3-Qto3ZnT1cJb_uh_Eg

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, 7:44 PM  wrote:

> Put on gloves and a mask to pick up a few things at the grocery store.
> Walked in and there was a construction worker in a mask, then a soccer
> mom then a skinny redneck, with his skinny redneck wife.  Started
> clucking like a chicken when he saw me and his wife was taking a video.
> Was not quite calling me a chicken loud enough that I could clearly make
> out exactly what he was doing, but was grandstanding for his skanky
> woman
>
> Funny how fast my natural pugilistic nature of my youth sprung into
> action.  I literally had to stop myself from backing him into a display of
> pork and beans with some comments of “you got a problem with me”.  Visions
> of a throat punch were clear in my head...
>
> But I calmed myself, reminded myself that going to jail or the ER or a
> dentist would not be fun this evening, and moved alone.  Ran into a handful
> of other chickens on the way out the store.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Cameron Crum]

There is an antibody test now available and a lab in town here doing it.
Priority is given to first responders, and it's already a month out.
However, I read an article yesterday that had lots of info on how the virus
acts and they were saying ventilators may be making it worse. Apparently,
the virus latches on to the heme in your hemoglobin in your red cells,
disassociating the toxic oxidative iron ion that attracts the O2. This
prevents O2 from bonding to the red blood cells. To make matters worse, it
is a permanent condition and the only fix is generating or introducing new
red blood cells that can carry oxygen. Your kidneys start producing
erythropoietin which tells your bone marrow to start ramping up production.
That toxic iron now running around overwhelms the epithelial surface of the
lungs which usually takes care of this stuff when it occurs naturally. This
leads to damage and inflammation in the lungs, not pneumonia. So, now your
liver kicks up its iron storage capability but soon gets overwhelmed and
starts releasing ALT which is a cry for help. At that point, it is almost
too late. If you bone marrow can't produce new red cells faster than the
virus attacks them, it's all over. No amount of forcing air into the lungs
will help. Providing pure oxygen like in a hyperbaric chamber may, but
direct blood transfusions with healthy red cells is the best chance as
there are not a lot of  hyperbaric chambers around. So, Hydroxychloroquine
works the same way it does on malaria (which by the way attacks hemoglobin
as well), by preventing the virus from attaching to the hemoglobin. It also
lowers the blood pH helping to stop the replication of the virus. If you
can keep your cells carrying oxygen and slow down virus replication, Your
body can probably handle the rest.


On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 12:15 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> What everyone tries not to talk about is there’s evidently not that much a
> hospital can do.  If you just need IV fluids and oxygen, sure.  But if you
> need one of those ventilators, the prognosis is grim.  It sounds like the
> survival rate for people who are intubated is somewhere in the 20 to 40%
> range.
>
>
>
> Obviously if the hospitals get overrun, now you get Italy, where the
> mortality fate even for non-Covid cases skyrockets.
>
>
>
> I’m agreeing with you here, but we’re buying time until (a) universal
> testing (b) testing to see who has recovered and has at least temporary
> immunity, (c) new therapies being tested that could be more effective than
> ventilators, and (d) a vaccine.
>
>
>
> BTW, the TV news was just talking about Los Angeles where businesses can
> now refuse to serve people not wearing masks, to protect frontline workers
> in essential businesses.  Reporter in the field said he observed people
> talking loudly about people NOT wearing masks.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Robert
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 8, 2020 11:46 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
>
>
>
> We drove 1.5 hrs to a town with no reported infections ( yeah lot of bs
> that is ) and were shopping is a safeway for 15 minutes, the safeway had
> all the precautions and people wiping stuff down.   Then some lady without
> a mask ( this is in California where masks are supposed to be required )
> started hacking up a lung right by the checkout counters, 1/2 way into her
> bare elbow.   It was pretty obvious that this wasn't an ordinary coughing
> fit.  We were all decked out in PPE but that drove home decontaminating
> when we got home.  But the wife doesn't get it.  8/10's isn't good
> enough.   We are going to come down with it somewhere along the line.  It's
> certain.  Just hope it is after the hospitals are past the worst point so
> that we can get taken care of instead of triaged.  So I will stay away and
> hope that I don't get someone else sick...
>
> On 4/7/20 7:22 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> No, sorry.  The redneck and his woman were not wearing masks.
>
>
>
> *From:* Matt Hoppes
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 7, 2020 8:11 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
>
>
>
> Very confused by this story. Other people wearing masks made fun of you
> wearing a mask?
>
>
> On Apr 7, 2020, at 9:43 PM,   wrote:
>
> Put on gloves and a mask to pick up a few things at the grocery store.
> Walked in and there was a construction worker in a mask, then a soccer
> mom then a skinny redneck, with his skinny redneck wife.  Started
> clucking like a chicken when he saw me and his wife was taking a video.
> Was not quite calling me a chicken loud enough that I could clearly make
> out exactly what he was doing, but was grandstanding for his skanky
> woman
>
>
>
> Funny how fast my natural pugilistic nature of my youth sprung into
> action.  I literally had to stop myself from backing him into a display of
> pork and beans with some comments of “you got a problem with me”.  Visions
> of a throat punch were 

Re: [AFMUG] American Tower trying to renegotiate Tower Lease with landlord

[Brian Webster]

Lewis covers a lot of the points I would.

 

I have done some consulting for a university that was approached similarly. The 
tower company was fixated on some parts of the lease but never focused on 
things like escalations and such. We did the amortizations of the escalators 
and they still over time would exceed the rent they are collecting. So moral of 
the story is make sure he get in writing the document they would like to 
renegotiate before you put too much time in it. Have them produce an executable 
version, not just an email highlighting what they want to do. In the end the 
legal signed document is the only thing that matters.

 

Other points to consider. They are calling your bluff. The amount you want to 
negotiate back you need to know seriously what their other options are. Strict 
zoning is one thing but one of the justifications for forcing a municipality to 
allow a new tower by federal law is the economic clause. They could easily make 
the case for a new tower if they can prove that their rent will exceed the rent 
they receive, but beware. Their lease with eh carrier may have clauses to deal 
with that and they can increase the rent to the carrier based on their ground 
lease. This is not always the case though. 

 

Look at the tower companies termination options. Do they have the right to 
terminate at each 5 year renewal? Are they required to return the site back to 
previous state prior to building? Does the landowner have the right to assume 
the tower in its current state if they chose not to renew?  All serious points 
to consider in their offer for renegotiation. If it is possible for the 
landowner to keep the tower if they terminate that might be a good move and 
then just sign a reasonable lease with the carrier and keep the revenue. But if 
the tower company wants to play hard ball they may take the tower down with no 
option for the landowner to keep it standing, that would include ripping up the 
tower foundation.

 

Have the landowner clearly research and understand all of these points. Then 
decide if renegotiation is smart. Better to have the site stay there producing 
revenue even if it is less, than to possibly lose all totally in the near 
future. But the legal documents are going to be that key. Also research the tax 
implications on taking the lump sum option. In some cases that might get taxed 
at over 50%. 

 

Bottom line, play devil’s advocate and think about what the worst case 
situation is going to be with your decision.

 

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 2:24 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] American Tower trying to renegotiate Tower Lease with 
landlord

 

Lots of things to talk about here but lets hit the high points. Tower companies 
are getting squeezed by carriers.

1.  First I'll say I really don't like term escalations, I favor annual. 
Since they are already trying to back down their costs that one is a non 
starter but we can get back to that.
2.  A populated city is like saying a large lake. If you live next to 
Superior, nothing is a large lake. What population are we talking about?
3.  Don't ever give anything without getting something. If your friend is 
worried, maybe a smaller fixed payment and a large % of revenue would reduce 
their risk and make he gets a fair share of the revenue.
4.  Look to recent municipal leases as they typically disclose a lot of 
info about the final negotiations.
5.  Depending on his age, maybe the lump sum is a good deal, negotiated 
higher of course. If he is looking for a good way to pass along revenue to 
heirs, maybe not.
6.  He doesn't own the tower so can't negotiate directly with Verizon 
unless he is going to build one or let them do it.

I have seen Verizon (not American) move off of a tower and build one 1/4 mile 
away when they didn't like terms. The terms were that they wanted a tower 
completely rebuilt, but didn't want to pay any additional fees to have it 
replaced for the extra load. So they will move.

 

If it were me, not knowing anything else about the situation, I would come back 
with $6000 per year, increase annually at 3% and 33% of the revenue paid Jan1 
for the prior year and see what happens. Annual audits with unsolicieted 
revenue statements mailed yearly with the check., yada, yada. I am making 
assumptions on what revenue might be since no pops were given. 

 

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:05 AM Kurt Fankhauser  
wrote:

Someone I know owns a property with a mono-pole on it owned by American Tower. 
The landowner has a pretty good lease IMO. They are getting $13,000 lease 
payments annually that increase 15% every 5 years. The tower is downtown in a 
populated city and Verizon is the only tenant on it and there is not another 
cell tower within a mile of this one.

 

The contract auto-renews every 5 

Re: [AFMUG] Smart Antenna Alignment review?

[SmarterBroadband]

Hi Tushar

 

We have one.   Works well.

 

Adam

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tushar Patel
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 3:41 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [AFMUG] Smart Antenna Alignment review?

 

Time has come for us to get a little more accuracy on our sector antennas.

 

Any input on the following product?

 

http://www.multiwavesensors.com/antenna-alignment/

 

 

Tushar

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Re: [AFMUG] American Tower trying to renegotiate Tower Lease with landlord

[Lewis Bergman]

Lots of things to talk about here but lets hit the high points. Tower
companies are getting squeezed by carriers.

   1. First I'll say I really don't like term escalations, I favor annual.
   Since they are already trying to back down their costs that one is a non
   starter but we can get back to that.
   2. A populated city is like saying a large lake. If you live next to
   Superior, nothing is a large lake. What population are we talking about?
   3. Don't ever give anything without getting something. If your friend is
   worried, maybe a smaller fixed payment and a large % of revenue would
   reduce their risk and make he gets a fair share of the revenue.
   4. Look to recent municipal leases as they typically disclose a lot of
   info about the final negotiations.
   5. Depending on his age, maybe the lump sum is a good deal, negotiated
   higher of course. If he is looking for a good way to pass along revenue to
   heirs, maybe not.
   6. He doesn't own the tower so can't negotiate directly with Verizon
   unless he is going to build one or let them do it.

I have seen Verizon (not American) move off of a tower and build one 1/4
mile away when they didn't like terms. The terms were that they wanted a
tower completely rebuilt, but didn't want to pay any additional fees to
have it replaced for the extra load. So they will move.

If it were me, not knowing anything else about the situation, I would come
back with $6000 per year, increase annually at 3% and 33% of the revenue
paid Jan1 for the prior year and see what happens. Annual audits with
unsolicieted revenue statements mailed yearly with the check., yada, yada.
I am making assumptions on what revenue might be since no pops were given.

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:05 AM Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> Someone I know owns a property with a mono-pole on it owned by American
> Tower. The landowner has a pretty good lease IMO. They are getting $13,000
> lease payments annually that increase 15% every 5 years. The tower is
> downtown in a populated city and Verizon is the only tenant on it and there
> is not another cell tower within a mile of this one.
>
> The contract auto-renews every 5 years and coming up on its 2nd auto-renew
> and American Tower has contacted them wanting to "re-negotiate the lease."
> They say that the current terms are not "feasible" anymore and that they
> might look for alternative sites and have made the following offer:
>
>  • A one-time lump sum payment of $180,265.86 in exchange for a 99-year
> term easement paid at close in lieu of rental payments
>
> OR
>
> • $700.00 per month rent commencing 08-01-2020
> • 10% 5-year term escalation effective 08-01-2021 and every 5 years
> thereafter
> • Providing 6 terms of 5 years each, final expiration date will be
> 07-31-2071 (current expiration is 7-31-2041)
>
> Both those offers are less than what the current lease payments are, the
> one time buyout will break even in 15-20 years. So what I'm wondering here
> is American Tower trying to pull their bluff on saying they will "look for
> alternative sites" ?
>
> I don't really see them going through all the hassle to build another site
> close to this one just to get a $400 cheaper/per month payment. Verizon
> really needs this site downtown because there are no other towers close to
> it and the city zoning is so strict that no new towers can be built.
>
> Any tips for dealing with the tower owner?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
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Re: [AFMUG] American Tower trying to renegotiate Tower Lease with landlord

[Ken Hohhof]

If this is the only tower space in the area, where are AT and T-Mobile?  Why 
has AT only been able to get one tenant?

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 1:12 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] American Tower trying to renegotiate Tower Lease with 
landlord

On 4/8/20 11:01 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
> Well the landlord is getting  $1150.00/month now and ATC is trying to 
> re-negotiate it down to $700.00.


I wonder what they're paying ATC. There's a VZ built site here in Reno on a 
hill that VZ is paying the property owner $4,000/mo for.

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Re: [AFMUG] American Tower trying to renegotiate Tower Lease with landlord

[Seth Mattinen]

On 4/8/20 11:01 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
Well the landlord is getting  $1150.00/month now and ATC is trying to 
re-negotiate it down to $700.00.



I wonder what they're paying ATC. There's a VZ built site here in Reno 
on a hill that VZ is paying the property owner $4,000/mo for.


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Re: [AFMUG] American Tower trying to renegotiate Tower Lease with landlord

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Well the landlord is getting  $1150.00/month now and ATC is trying to
re-negotiate it down to $700.00.

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 12:57 PM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> Kurt,
>
> I don't know what city you are talking about, but building out on every
> pole is exactly what VZN/Crown are doing elsewhere.  Like literally every
> 400' or so.  Cities can't stop them from deploying small cell but might
> slow them down.
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:45 AM Kurt Fankhauser 
> wrote:
>
>> Carl,
>>
>> This is the only "LTE" tower verizon has for at least 5 miles in all
>> directions. They have another tower outside of town about 2 miles away and
>> I don't think it is LTE as it was from the old 1x days. I doubt they could
>> get downtown coverage from that with LTE and get any speed at all. The
>> problem is they can't just build another tower downtown because the zoning
>> is so restrictive that no new towers can be built. Unless they plan on
>> rolling out a ton of 5G sites on Telephone poles I don't see theme getting
>> the coverage they have today. And there are no tall buildings around either.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 12:28 PM Carl Peterson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'd look carefully at where VZN is in its small cell deployment in
>>> that market.  They are pulling off of a lot of the higher priced real
>>> estate in areas where the small cell network is complete.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:23 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>>>
 The tower companies are getting squeezed hard by the cell carriers.
  If American can’t cut back what they are charging Verizon it's pretty
 likely Verizon will move off the site.   That might be hard to do but big
 companies often fail to look at what it will cost them to replace it at any
 given site.   They may very well have a blanket contract with another tower
 provider that says they can order them up where they want and it’s the
 other companies problem to figure out how to do it.

 As far as buyout or renegotiate - really depends on the owner and what
 they value more.   Stable income, or a one-time payout.  Plenty of
 municipalities can’t resist the up front cash since it makes the current
 politicians look good and don’t worry about the fact that they screwed the
 taxpayers for the next 100 years.   The other party will be in power by the
 time the money is spent so I guess it doesn’t matter.

 Mark

 > On Apr 8, 2020, at 12:15 PM, Seth Mattinen 
 wrote:
 >
 > On 4/8/20 9:04 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
 >> Both those offers are less than what the current lease payments are,
 the one time buyout will break even in 15-20 years. So what I'm wondering
 here is American Tower trying to pull their bluff on saying they will "look
 for alternative sites" ?
 >> I don't really see them going through all the hassle to build
 another site close to this one just to get a $400 cheaper/per month
 payment. Verizon really needs this site downtown because there are no other
 towers close to it and the city zoning is so strict that no new towers can
 be built.
 >> Any tips for dealing with the tower owner?
 >
 >
 > Offer it to Verizon if ATC wants out of the lease? It seems unlikely
 that ATC is going to pay all of VZ's costs to move everything.
 >
 > --
 > AF mailing list
 > AF@af.afmug.com
 > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Pass

[chuck]

You are welcome!

-Original Message- 
From: Chuck Lipinski

Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 11:48 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Pass

Thank you


Chuck Lipinski
VP of Sales & Business Development
Office:  888-490-3645 x: 106
Direct Line: 570-753-1037
Cell: 570-881-2618
ch...@swginc.net
www.swginc.com
1 Alberigi Drive
Suite # 112
Jessup, PA 18434



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-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 1:43 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Pass

Fidelity.  Probably did cost me more than the trade but I wanted it removed
from my account.

-Original Message-
From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 11:33 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Pass

Who dod you trade through that it didn't cost you more than the result?

On 04/08/2020 10:31 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I finally sold my movie pass stock.
2 shares.  $.0002 per share.
Surprised they filled the order...




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Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Pass

[Chuck Lipinski]

Thank you 


Chuck Lipinski
VP of Sales & Business Development
Office:  888-490-3645 x: 106
Direct Line: 570-753-1037
Cell: 570-881-2618
ch...@swginc.net
www.swginc.com
1 Alberigi Drive 
Suite # 112
Jessup, PA 18434



CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL
COMMUNICATION IS INTENDED SOLELY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF
THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENT(S) TO WHICH IT IS ADDRESSED. If the reader of this
communication is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for
delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you
have received this document in error, and that any review, dissemination,
distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  If you have
received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by
telephone and/or the e-mail address listed above.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 1:43 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Pass

Fidelity.  Probably did cost me more than the trade but I wanted it removed
from my account.

-Original Message-
From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 11:33 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Pass

Who dod you trade through that it didn't cost you more than the result?

On 04/08/2020 10:31 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> I finally sold my movie pass stock.
> 2 shares.  $.0002 per share.
> Surprised they filled the order...
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Pass

[chuck]

Fidelity.  Probably did cost me more than the trade but I wanted it removed 
from my account.


-Original Message- 
From: Robert Andrews

Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 11:33 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Pass

Who dod you trade through that it didn't cost you more than the result?

On 04/08/2020 10:31 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I finally sold my movie pass stock.
2 shares.  $.0002 per share.
Surprised they filled the order...




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Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Pass

[Robert Andrews]

Who dod you trade through that it didn't cost you more than the result?

On 04/08/2020 10:31 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I finally sold my movie pass stock.
2 shares.  $.0002 per share.
Surprised they filled the order...




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[AFMUG] OT Movie Pass

[chuck]

I finally sold my movie pass stock.  
2 shares.  $.0002 per share.

Surprised they filled the order...-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Unacast

[Brian Webster]

Google is not the only player in the geolocation data collection business. Ever 
notice how many apps now required you to turn on locations services to 
function? There are other massive databases built that offer the data for sale. 
It’s not cheap by most that I have looked in to.

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 8:44 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Unacast

 

Google != Unacast, though.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Brian Webster" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 5:14:17 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Unacast

Most people have not turned off their location services on their smart phones. 
There are plenty of background programs that are already embedded in various 
apps people use. Geotagged Twitter data has user ID’s attached to it, Google 
tracks most movements and of course records and stares all the voices that 
people use when using the microphone for voice to text etc. Facebook checkin’s 
etc.  are also part of the mix of data sources. In the rural areas for these 
shorter periods of time they are looking at I am not sure how much sampling 
they get compared to more densely populated regions.  Here are some articles on 
the topic:

 

https://brianwebsterconsulting.wordpress.com/2018/07/12/where-will-the-5g-networks-be-built-carriers-are-not-the-only-ones-who-know/?fbclid=IwAR1OJd6xUliSCACfWjPwbfKTAWgZ_73Dqv_R6k3_MXz6ZVXbTJuw84FNm_Y

https://www.newsweek.com/google-tracking-peoples-movements-their-communities-during-coronavirus-pandemic-1495915?fbclid=IwAR29LjfHTA68qM63HCWLX0vSycYIDlY9q3B4AnuOrVEJrBwB6tPQ--CW26g

https://twitter.com/TectonixGEO/status/1242628347034767361?fbclid=IwAR30kyOEx1EcIvs4oXZ00Jd3uH5_euFVEgGlfSMLiBbnBBPMoOGMogXko4o

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/02/us/coronavirus-social-distancing.html?smid=fb-share
 

 =IwAR03RAWL4dJuZg6uXT1TroC_lcQ_xnxAaf5wKNpbKrZYyVeMFPS7R1pTg8c

 

 

Location based data has been available for a while, most of it is supposed to 
be anonymized but you can still glean off a lot of useful information with the 
information. Some of these studies have been put together quite quickly so the 
methodology I see in questions. For instance I see no mention of the makeup of 
the workforce for any given regions. In my area a better than 50% of the 
population could easily be in the essential workforce category being that 
healthcare and the service industry are a majority of the employment. Those 
people are still going to work. Also if you look at the break down of things 
like their letter grades they give to regions the percentages from say a to C 
are very minor and I think that is just to cause more sensationalized results. 
When a 50% reduction in travel is noticed, I would not consider that a D grade 
in a rural area. They are just using numbers from pre and post stay at home 
orders to grade society. 

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 3:26 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Unacast

 

Our local underground facilities location agency says locates are way up.  They 
think people are doing lots of home projects.  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 1:16 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Unacast

 

Opinion:  not very useful.

 

Rural people drive farther to work or shop, that doesn’t mean they interact 
with more people.  I may drive 50 miles to drop off radios for my tech to 
install but not interact with a single person.

 

I saw one analysis that blamed it on Walmart for driving all the local stores 
out of business so people in some areas have to drive 20 miles to buy groceries 
or buy supplies.  But again, what matters is probably how crowded that Walmart 
is and whether you practice distancing while shopping, not how far you drive to 
get there.

 

I imagine anonymized cellphone geolocation data is available for this purpose, 
either from what celltowers you are near, or 

Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Ken Hohhof]

What everyone tries not to talk about is there’s evidently not that much a 
hospital can do.  If you just need IV fluids and oxygen, sure.  But if you need 
one of those ventilators, the prognosis is grim.  It sounds like the survival 
rate for people who are intubated is somewhere in the 20 to 40% range.

 

Obviously if the hospitals get overrun, now you get Italy, where the mortality 
fate even for non-Covid cases skyrockets.

 

I’m agreeing with you here, but we’re buying time until (a) universal testing 
(b) testing to see who has recovered and has at least temporary immunity, (c) 
new therapies being tested that could be more effective than ventilators, and 
(d) a vaccine.

 

BTW, the TV news was just talking about Los Angeles where businesses can now 
refuse to serve people not wearing masks, to protect frontline workers in 
essential businesses.  Reporter in the field said he observed people talking 
loudly about people NOT wearing masks.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 11:46 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

 

We drove 1.5 hrs to a town with no reported infections ( yeah lot of bs that is 
) and were shopping is a safeway for 15 minutes, the safeway had all the 
precautions and people wiping stuff down.   Then some lady without a mask ( 
this is in California where masks are supposed to be required ) started hacking 
up a lung right by the checkout counters, 1/2 way into her bare elbow.   It was 
pretty obvious that this wasn't an ordinary coughing fit.  We were all decked 
out in PPE but that drove home decontaminating when we got home.  But the wife 
doesn't get it.  8/10's isn't good enough.   We are going to come down with it 
somewhere along the line.  It's certain.  Just hope it is after the hospitals 
are past the worst point so that we can get taken care of instead of triaged.  
So I will stay away and hope that I don't get someone else sick...

On 4/7/20 7:22 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

No, sorry.  The redneck and his woman were not wearing masks.  

 

From: Matt Hoppes 

Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 8:11 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

 

Very confused by this story. Other people wearing masks made fun of you wearing 
a mask?


On Apr 7, 2020, at 9:43 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Put on gloves and a mask to pick up a few things at the grocery store.  Walked 
in and there was a construction worker in a mask, then a soccer mom then a 
skinny redneck, with his skinny redneck wife.  Started clucking like a chicken 
when he saw me and his wife was taking a video.  Was not quite calling me a 
chicken loud enough that I could clearly make out exactly what he was doing, 
but was grandstanding for his skanky woman

 

Funny how fast my natural pugilistic nature of my youth sprung into action.  I 
literally had to stop myself from backing him into a display of pork and beans 
with some comments of “you got a problem with me”.  Visions of a throat punch 
were clear in my head...

 

But I calmed myself, reminded myself that going to jail or the ER or a dentist 
would not be fun this evening, and moved alone.  Ran into a handful of other 
chickens on the way out the store.  

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Re: [AFMUG] American Tower trying to renegotiate Tower Lease with landlord

[Carl Peterson]

Kurt,

I don't know what city you are talking about, but building out on every
pole is exactly what VZN/Crown are doing elsewhere.  Like literally every
400' or so.  Cities can't stop them from deploying small cell but might
slow them down.

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:45 AM Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> Carl,
>
> This is the only "LTE" tower verizon has for at least 5 miles in all
> directions. They have another tower outside of town about 2 miles away and
> I don't think it is LTE as it was from the old 1x days. I doubt they could
> get downtown coverage from that with LTE and get any speed at all. The
> problem is they can't just build another tower downtown because the zoning
> is so restrictive that no new towers can be built. Unless they plan on
> rolling out a ton of 5G sites on Telephone poles I don't see theme getting
> the coverage they have today. And there are no tall buildings around either.
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 12:28 PM Carl Peterson 
> wrote:
>
>> I'd look carefully at where VZN is in its small cell deployment in
>> that market.  They are pulling off of a lot of the higher priced real
>> estate in areas where the small cell network is complete.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:23 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>>
>>> The tower companies are getting squeezed hard by the cell carriers.   If
>>> American can’t cut back what they are charging Verizon it's pretty likely
>>> Verizon will move off the site.   That might be hard to do but big
>>> companies often fail to look at what it will cost them to replace it at any
>>> given site.   They may very well have a blanket contract with another tower
>>> provider that says they can order them up where they want and it’s the
>>> other companies problem to figure out how to do it.
>>>
>>> As far as buyout or renegotiate - really depends on the owner and what
>>> they value more.   Stable income, or a one-time payout.  Plenty of
>>> municipalities can’t resist the up front cash since it makes the current
>>> politicians look good and don’t worry about the fact that they screwed the
>>> taxpayers for the next 100 years.   The other party will be in power by the
>>> time the money is spent so I guess it doesn’t matter.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> > On Apr 8, 2020, at 12:15 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On 4/8/20 9:04 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>>> >> Both those offers are less than what the current lease payments are,
>>> the one time buyout will break even in 15-20 years. So what I'm wondering
>>> here is American Tower trying to pull their bluff on saying they will "look
>>> for alternative sites" ?
>>> >> I don't really see them going through all the hassle to build another
>>> site close to this one just to get a $400 cheaper/per month payment.
>>> Verizon really needs this site downtown because there are no other towers
>>> close to it and the city zoning is so strict that no new towers can be
>>> built.
>>> >> Any tips for dealing with the tower owner?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Offer it to Verizon if ATC wants out of the lease? It seems unlikely
>>> that ATC is going to pay all of VZ's costs to move everything.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > AF mailing list
>>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Robert]

We drove 1.5 hrs to a town with no reported infections ( yeah lot of bs 
that is ) and were shopping is a safeway for 15 minutes, the safeway had 
all the precautions and people wiping stuff down.   Then some lady 
without a mask ( this is in California where masks are supposed to be 
required ) started hacking up a lung right by the checkout counters, 1/2 
way into her bare elbow.   It was pretty obvious that this wasn't an 
ordinary coughing fit.  We were all decked out in PPE but that drove 
home decontaminating when we got home.  But the wife doesn't get it. 
8/10's isn't good enough.   We are going to come down with it somewhere 
along the line.  It's certain.  Just hope it is after the hospitals are 
past the worst point so that we can get taken care of instead of 
triaged.  So I will stay away and hope that I don't get someone else sick...


On 4/7/20 7:22 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

No, sorry.  The redneck and his woman were not wearing masks.
*From:* Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Tuesday, April 7, 2020 8:11 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
Very confused by this story. Other people wearing masks made fun of 
you wearing a mask?


On Apr 7, 2020, at 9:43 PM,   wrote:

Put on gloves and a mask to pick up a few things at the grocery 
store.  Walked in and there was a construction worker in a mask, then 
a soccer mom then a skinny redneck, with his skinny redneck 
wife.  Started clucking like a chicken when he saw me and his wife 
was taking a video. Was not quite calling me a chicken loud enough 
that I could clearly make out exactly what he was doing, but was 
grandstanding for his skanky woman
Funny how fast my natural pugilistic nature of my youth sprung into 
action.  I literally had to stop myself from backing him into a 
display of pork and beans with some comments of “you got a problem 
with me”.  Visions of a throat punch were clear in my head...
But I calmed myself, reminded myself that going to jail or the ER or 
a dentist would not be fun this evening, and moved alone.  Ran into a 
handful of other chickens on the way out the store.

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Re: [AFMUG] American Tower trying to renegotiate Tower Lease with landlord

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Carl,

This is the only "LTE" tower verizon has for at least 5 miles in all
directions. They have another tower outside of town about 2 miles away and
I don't think it is LTE as it was from the old 1x days. I doubt they could
get downtown coverage from that with LTE and get any speed at all. The
problem is they can't just build another tower downtown because the zoning
is so restrictive that no new towers can be built. Unless they plan on
rolling out a ton of 5G sites on Telephone poles I don't see theme getting
the coverage they have today. And there are no tall buildings around either.

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 12:28 PM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> I'd look carefully at where VZN is in its small cell deployment in
> that market.  They are pulling off of a lot of the higher priced real
> estate in areas where the small cell network is complete.
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:23 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>
>> The tower companies are getting squeezed hard by the cell carriers.   If
>> American can’t cut back what they are charging Verizon it's pretty likely
>> Verizon will move off the site.   That might be hard to do but big
>> companies often fail to look at what it will cost them to replace it at any
>> given site.   They may very well have a blanket contract with another tower
>> provider that says they can order them up where they want and it’s the
>> other companies problem to figure out how to do it.
>>
>> As far as buyout or renegotiate - really depends on the owner and what
>> they value more.   Stable income, or a one-time payout.  Plenty of
>> municipalities can’t resist the up front cash since it makes the current
>> politicians look good and don’t worry about the fact that they screwed the
>> taxpayers for the next 100 years.   The other party will be in power by the
>> time the money is spent so I guess it doesn’t matter.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> > On Apr 8, 2020, at 12:15 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>> >
>> > On 4/8/20 9:04 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>> >> Both those offers are less than what the current lease payments are,
>> the one time buyout will break even in 15-20 years. So what I'm wondering
>> here is American Tower trying to pull their bluff on saying they will "look
>> for alternative sites" ?
>> >> I don't really see them going through all the hassle to build another
>> site close to this one just to get a $400 cheaper/per month payment.
>> Verizon really needs this site downtown because there are no other towers
>> close to it and the city zoning is so strict that no new towers can be
>> built.
>> >> Any tips for dealing with the tower owner?
>> >
>> >
>> > Offer it to Verizon if ATC wants out of the lease? It seems unlikely
>> that ATC is going to pay all of VZ's costs to move everything.
>> >
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] American Tower trying to renegotiate Tower Lease with landlord

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I wonder what the markup is between ATC and VZW? If you could
  negotiate directly with VZW you might be able to get terms equal
  to what you're getting now by eliminating the middleman. The only
  issue will be what you end up absorbing in terms of site
  maintenance.


bp



On 4/8/2020 9:04 AM, Kurt Fankhauser
  wrote:


  
  Someone I know owns a property with a mono-pole on
it owned by American Tower. The landowner has a pretty good
lease IMO. They are getting $13,000 lease payments annually that
increase 15% every 5 years. The tower is downtown in a populated
city and Verizon is the only tenant on it and there is not
another cell tower within a mile of this one.


The contract auto-renews every 5 years and coming up on its
  2nd auto-renew and American Tower has contacted them wanting
  to "re-negotiate the lease." They say that the current terms
  are not "feasible" anymore and that they might look for
  alternative sites and have made the following offer:
  
   • A one-time lump sum payment of $180,265.86 in exchange for
  a 99-year term easement paid at close in lieu of rental
  payments
  

OR

  • $700.00 per month rent commencing 08-01-2020
  • 10% 5-year term escalation effective 08-01-2021 and every 5
  years thereafter
  • Providing 6 terms of 5 years each, final expiration date
  will be 07-31-2071 (current expiration is 7-31-2041)


Both those offers are less than what the current lease
  payments are, the one time buyout will break even in 15-20
  years. So what I'm wondering here is American Tower trying to
  pull their bluff on saying they will "look for alternative
  sites" ?


I don't really see them going through all the hassle to
  build another site close to this one just to get a $400
  cheaper/per month payment. Verizon really needs this site
  downtown because there are no other towers close to it and the
  city zoning is so strict that no new towers can be built. 


Any tips for dealing with the tower owner?


  
  
  

  


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Re: [AFMUG] American Tower trying to renegotiate Tower Lease with landlord

[Carl Peterson]

I'd look carefully at where VZN is in its small cell deployment in
that market.  They are pulling off of a lot of the higher priced real
estate in areas where the small cell network is complete.

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:23 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

> The tower companies are getting squeezed hard by the cell carriers.   If
> American can’t cut back what they are charging Verizon it's pretty likely
> Verizon will move off the site.   That might be hard to do but big
> companies often fail to look at what it will cost them to replace it at any
> given site.   They may very well have a blanket contract with another tower
> provider that says they can order them up where they want and it’s the
> other companies problem to figure out how to do it.
>
> As far as buyout or renegotiate - really depends on the owner and what
> they value more.   Stable income, or a one-time payout.  Plenty of
> municipalities can’t resist the up front cash since it makes the current
> politicians look good and don’t worry about the fact that they screwed the
> taxpayers for the next 100 years.   The other party will be in power by the
> time the money is spent so I guess it doesn’t matter.
>
> Mark
>
> > On Apr 8, 2020, at 12:15 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> >
> > On 4/8/20 9:04 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
> >> Both those offers are less than what the current lease payments are,
> the one time buyout will break even in 15-20 years. So what I'm wondering
> here is American Tower trying to pull their bluff on saying they will "look
> for alternative sites" ?
> >> I don't really see them going through all the hassle to build another
> site close to this one just to get a $400 cheaper/per month payment.
> Verizon really needs this site downtown because there are no other towers
> close to it and the city zoning is so strict that no new towers can be
> built.
> >> Any tips for dealing with the tower owner?
> >
> >
> > Offer it to Verizon if ATC wants out of the lease? It seems unlikely
> that ATC is going to pay all of VZ's costs to move everything.
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] American Tower trying to renegotiate Tower Lease with landlord

[Mark Radabaugh]

The tower companies are getting squeezed hard by the cell carriers.   If 
American can’t cut back what they are charging Verizon it's pretty likely 
Verizon will move off the site.   That might be hard to do but big companies 
often fail to look at what it will cost them to replace it at any given site.   
They may very well have a blanket contract with another tower provider that 
says they can order them up where they want and it’s the other companies 
problem to figure out how to do it.

As far as buyout or renegotiate - really depends on the owner and what they 
value more.   Stable income, or a one-time payout.  Plenty of municipalities 
can’t resist the up front cash since it makes the current politicians look good 
and don’t worry about the fact that they screwed the taxpayers for the next 100 
years.   The other party will be in power by the time the money is spent so I 
guess it doesn’t matter.

Mark

> On Apr 8, 2020, at 12:15 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> 
> On 4/8/20 9:04 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>> Both those offers are less than what the current lease payments are, the one 
>> time buyout will break even in 15-20 years. So what I'm wondering here is 
>> American Tower trying to pull their bluff on saying they will "look for 
>> alternative sites" ?
>> I don't really see them going through all the hassle to build another site 
>> close to this one just to get a $400 cheaper/per month payment. Verizon 
>> really needs this site downtown because there are no other towers close to 
>> it and the city zoning is so strict that no new towers can be built.
>> Any tips for dealing with the tower owner?
> 
> 
> Offer it to Verizon if ATC wants out of the lease? It seems unlikely that ATC 
> is going to pay all of VZ's costs to move everything.
> 
> -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] American Tower trying to renegotiate Tower Lease with landlord

[Seth Mattinen]

On 4/8/20 9:04 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


Both those offers are less than what the current lease payments are, the 
one time buyout will break even in 15-20 years. So what I'm wondering 
here is American Tower trying to pull their bluff on saying they will 
"look for alternative sites" ?


I don't really see them going through all the hassle to build another 
site close to this one just to get a $400 cheaper/per month payment. 
Verizon really needs this site downtown because there are no other 
towers close to it and the city zoning is so strict that no new towers 
can be built.


Any tips for dealing with the tower owner?




Offer it to Verizon if ATC wants out of the lease? It seems unlikely 
that ATC is going to pay all of VZ's costs to move everything.


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[AFMUG] American Tower trying to renegotiate Tower Lease with landlord

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Someone I know owns a property with a mono-pole on it owned by American
Tower. The landowner has a pretty good lease IMO. They are getting $13,000
lease payments annually that increase 15% every 5 years. The tower is
downtown in a populated city and Verizon is the only tenant on it and there
is not another cell tower within a mile of this one.

The contract auto-renews every 5 years and coming up on its 2nd auto-renew
and American Tower has contacted them wanting to "re-negotiate the lease."
They say that the current terms are not "feasible" anymore and that they
might look for alternative sites and have made the following offer:

 • A one-time lump sum payment of $180,265.86 in exchange for a 99-year
term easement paid at close in lieu of rental payments

OR

• $700.00 per month rent commencing 08-01-2020
• 10% 5-year term escalation effective 08-01-2021 and every 5 years
thereafter
• Providing 6 terms of 5 years each, final expiration date will be
07-31-2071 (current expiration is 7-31-2041)

Both those offers are less than what the current lease payments are, the
one time buyout will break even in 15-20 years. So what I'm wondering here
is American Tower trying to pull their bluff on saying they will "look for
alternative sites" ?

I don't really see them going through all the hassle to build another site
close to this one just to get a $400 cheaper/per month payment. Verizon
really needs this site downtown because there are no other towers close to
it and the city zoning is so strict that no new towers can be built.

Any tips for dealing with the tower owner?
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Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Caleb Knauer]

Probably wouldn't help.  Idiots gonna idiot.  Only way someone like
this takes this (or anything that doesn't fit into their idiot
flavored world view) seriously is for it to hit them personally.  And
then they'll complain no one told them.

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 9:18 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> There should be a t-shirt for that.
>
>
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
> Account)
> Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 10:26 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
>
>
>
> I would have probably said something like "I'm wearing this for *your* 
> benefit *not* mine.   Don't call me a chicken for protecting your life.".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 8:23 PM  wrote:
>
> No, sorry.  The redneck and his woman were not wearing masks.
>
>
>
> From: Matt Hoppes
>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 8:11 PM
>
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks
>
>
>
> Very confused by this story. Other people wearing masks made fun of you 
> wearing a mask?
>
>
> On Apr 7, 2020, at 9:43 PM,   wrote:
>
> Put on gloves and a mask to pick up a few things at the grocery store.  
> Walked in and there was a construction worker in a mask, then a soccer 
> mom then a skinny redneck, with his skinny redneck wife.  Started 
> clucking like a chicken when he saw me and his wife was taking a video.  Was 
> not quite calling me a chicken loud enough that I could clearly make out 
> exactly what he was doing, but was grandstanding for his skanky woman
>
>
>
> Funny how fast my natural pugilistic nature of my youth sprung into action.  
> I literally had to stop myself from backing him into a display of pork and 
> beans with some comments of “you got a problem with me”.  Visions of a throat 
> punch were clear in my head...
>
>
>
> But I calmed myself, reminded myself that going to jail or the ER or a 
> dentist would not be fun this evening, and moved alone.  Ran into a handful 
> of other chickens on the way out the store.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> 
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> - Forrest
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT COVID-19 Key

[Christopher Tyler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKV1TEssH7k

-- 
Christopher Tyler
Senior Network Engineer
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE

Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
1091 W. Kathryn Street
Nixa, MO 65714
(417) 851-1107 x. 9002
www.totalhighspeed.com

- Original Message -
> From: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Cc: "dave" 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 1:29:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT COVID-19 Key

> Way too much time on our hands lol!
> I think a productive way to devote our time is to come up with a radiated 
> laser
> system that would target Covid in the body
> and ZAP it!
> 
> 
> On 4/6/20 2:24 PM, [ mailto:can...@believewireless.net |
> can...@believewireless.net ] wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's the key to COVID-19? How about this door opener that allows you to open
> different types of doors without physically touching them.
> 
> Want a "Corona Key" for your very own? STL file is attached.
> 
> I didn't invent this. Saw an ad on Facebook, designed it myself and printed 
> it.
> 
> Looking for a 3D printer? RUN, don't walk, and get a Prusa. Mine arrived the
> other day after my other one died and it is nothing less than amazing. MUCH
> easier to use. I pretty much press print and prints work nearly every time.
> Auto bed leveling so I'm not wasting several minutes trying to level the bed
> before each print.
> [
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156875270210974=pcb.10156875290840974=3=55973=AfY2h7zsGL4UwPowUCwrPWk0H_5kWG3_YxEEPxP9aJUYP4_welOE-q7CJgmpx3-qYK4&__tn__=HH-R-R=ARBf-Hr-yxspE_BPkYZ3xZY5PdiuBzmltwcEKdtmB2lcXfiDuLi8BKxJ1KQRCK5m7U85vuvjAryNkxy0
> |
>   ]
> 
> 
> 
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Ken Hohhof]

There should be a t-shirt for that.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 10:26 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

 

I would have probably said something like "I'm wearing this for *your* benefit 
*not* mine.   Don't call me a chicken for protecting your life.".

 

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 8:23 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

No, sorry.  The redneck and his woman were not wearing masks.  

 

From: Matt Hoppes 

Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 8:11 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

 

Very confused by this story. Other people wearing masks made fun of you wearing 
a mask?


On Apr 7, 2020, at 9:43 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Put on gloves and a mask to pick up a few things at the grocery store.  Walked 
in and there was a construction worker in a mask, then a soccer mom then a 
skinny redneck, with his skinny redneck wife.  Started clucking like a chicken 
when he saw me and his wife was taking a video.  Was not quite calling me a 
chicken loud enough that I could clearly make out exactly what he was doing, 
but was grandstanding for his skanky woman

 

Funny how fast my natural pugilistic nature of my youth sprung into action.  I 
literally had to stop myself from backing him into a display of pork and beans 
with some comments of “you got a problem with me”.  Visions of a throat punch 
were clear in my head...

 

But I calmed myself, reminded myself that going to jail or the ER or a dentist 
would not be fun this evening, and moved alone.  Ran into a handful of other 
chickens on the way out the store.  

-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


  _  


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-- 

- Forrest

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Re: [AFMUG] Need any Pigtails?

[Mike Hammett]

UPC* 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:41:58 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Need any Pigtails? 




I bought the wrong item and don't feel like shipping it back to Australia. 
Anyone in the US need any UPS pigtails? 




https://www.fs.com/products/42459.html 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Unacast

[Mike Hammett]

Google != Unacast, though. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Brian Webster"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 5:14:17 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Unacast 



Most people have not turned off their location services on their smart phones. 
There are plenty of background programs that are already embedded in various 
apps people use. Geotagged Twitter data has user ID’s attached to it, Google 
tracks most movements and of course records and stares all the voices that 
people use when using the microphone for voice to text etc. Facebook checkin’s 
etc. are also part of the mix of data sources. In the rural areas for these 
shorter periods of time they are looking at I am not sure how much sampling 
they get compared to more densely populated regions. Here are some articles on 
the topic: 

https://brianwebsterconsulting.wordpress.com/2018/07/12/where-will-the-5g-networks-be-built-carriers-are-not-the-only-ones-who-know/?fbclid=IwAR1OJd6xUliSCACfWjPwbfKTAWgZ_73Dqv_R6k3_MXz6ZVXbTJuw84FNm_Y
 
https://www.newsweek.com/google-tracking-peoples-movements-their-communities-during-coronavirus-pandemic-1495915?fbclid=IwAR29LjfHTA68qM63HCWLX0vSycYIDlY9q3B4AnuOrVEJrBwB6tPQ--CW26g
 
https://twitter.com/TectonixGEO/status/1242628347034767361?fbclid=IwAR30kyOEx1EcIvs4oXZ00Jd3uH5_euFVEgGlfSMLiBbnBBPMoOGMogXko4o
 
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/02/us/coronavirus-social-distancing.html?smid=fb-share=IwAR03RAWL4dJuZg6uXT1TroC_lcQ_xnxAaf5wKNpbKrZYyVeMFPS7R1pTg8c
 


Location based data has been available for a while, most of it is supposed to 
be anonymized but you can still glean off a lot of useful information with the 
information. Some of these studies have been put together quite quickly so the 
methodology I see in questions. For instance I see no mention of the makeup of 
the workforce for any given regions. In my area a better than 50% of the 
population could easily be in the essential workforce category being that 
healthcare and the service industry are a majority of the employment. Those 
people are still going to work. Also if you look at the break down of things 
like their letter grades they give to regions the percentages from say a to C 
are very minor and I think that is just to cause more sensationalized results. 
When a 50% reduction in travel is noticed, I would not consider that a D grade 
in a rural area. They are just using numbers from pre and post stay at home 
orders to grade society. 


Thank you, 
Brian Webster 
www.wirelessmapping.com 



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 3:26 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Unacast 




Our local underground facilities location agency says locates are way up. They 
think people are doing lots of home projects. 






From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 1:16 PM 

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Unacast 



Opinion: not very useful. 

Rural people drive farther to work or shop, that doesn’t mean they interact 
with more people. I may drive 50 miles to drop off radios for my tech to 
install but not interact with a single person. 

I saw one analysis that blamed it on Walmart for driving all the local stores 
out of business so people in some areas have to drive 20 miles to buy groceries 
or buy supplies. But again, what matters is probably how crowded that Walmart 
is and whether you practice distancing while shopping, not how far you drive to 
get there. 

I imagine anonymized cellphone geolocation data is available for this purpose, 
either from what celltowers you are near, or browser and app data. 




From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 1:58 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Unacast 


I've seen a bunch of articles based on "data" put out by Unacast regarding 
geographies that are better or worse at social distancing. 



They're using travel distance to determine who's good and who's bad. 



Is their data worth a shit? You could put 10k phones into 10k cars and drive 
them in circles all day and your reported metric would be through the roof, yet 
there was nearly zero additional risk because people were separated. 



How are they collecting this data? On whose behalf? With what permission? 



The only useful data would perhaps be in detecting the change in number of 
visible Bluetooth devices from January to now. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






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[AFMUG] Need any Pigtails?

[Mike Hammett]

I bought the wrong item and don't feel like shipping it back to Australia. 
Anyone in the US need any UPS pigtails? 




https://www.fs.com/products/42459.html 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




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Re: [AFMUG] Smart Antenna Alignment review?

[Shayne Lebrun]

Mimosa backhaul radios do something like this; they both have GPS, and if
they're talking at all, they figure out bearing to each other and give you
compass bearing.

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 6:49 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Smart Antenna Alignment review?

 

Someday I am going to build some of my ideas for this.

 

If you put a GPS antenna away from the tower and one on the tower, the long
baseline will let you know the bearing between the two with great accuracy.
They could talk and let the tower unit know what the azimuth of the line
between them is.

 

Then you could aim a scope with an angular encoder at the ground unit, or it
could have a strobe light with a omni lens camera on the tower to let it
know where it is.  I even considered dopplar UHF antennas on the tower to
get the position of the ground unit.

 

Then it is a simple thing to know which direction you are aiming.  Properly
done it could be a $300 item instead of a $3000-$5000 item.  Just not sure
which method to use to get the relative direction of the ground unit...

 

A small rifle scope on an encoder would work really well.  

 

From: Tushar Patel 

Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 4:41 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: [AFMUG] Smart Antenna Alignment review?

 

Time has come for us to get a little more accuracy on our sector antennas.

 

Any input on the following product?

 

http://www.multiwavesensors.com/antenna-alignment/

 

 

Tushar

  _  

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