Re: [AFMUG] Check it out!

[John Osmon]

Easy deal when they have the space to give out:
  - can you justify your need?
  - here ya go!


On Mon, Jan 04, 2021 at 12:16:51PM -0700, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> Message Hello,
> 
> Good news! You have been approved for a /23 that has become available via 
> ARIN's IPv4 Waiting List.
> 
> This approval is valid for 60 days.
> 
> You will receive a message from ARIN Financial Services that will
> contain details on the steps required to receive the IP addresses. If
> you do not complete the required steps within 60 days, this request
> will be removed from the waiting list and the block will be made
> available to another organization.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jon Worley
> Senior Technology Architect
> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
> https://www.arin.net/
> 703.227.0660

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Dev]

Keywords are “open and defiant” use for adverse possession, different states 
have various lengths until you can legally take possession.

BTW, we live off grid in the woods, built everything ourselves (roads, water, 
septic, power, and uh, internet), love it. Definitely not for everyone. You 
can’t call the guy to fix it - you are the guy. You find out how you can’t be 
good at everything so you pick your battles. Hit me off list if you have 
specific questions.

> On Jan 4, 2021, at 5:46 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> I've only read about adverse possession, but I think the other party has to 
> have been aware of your use of the land and not done anything to stop you for 
> a number of years.
> 
> On 1/4/2021 7:25 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> If it has been open to the public then it is prescriptive.  If just used be 
>> a private person other than the owner it can be a case of adverse possession 
>> or acquiescence.  Both a form of squatter’s rights.  Adverse possession is a 
>> very hard case to make.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 


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Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Joseph.Schraml]

With the SIAE radio:

- 2+0 XPIC - minimal loss using the built-in OMT branching unit on the 
order of 0.5 dB per end

- 2+0 ACCP - 3.5 dB loss per end using the built-in Hybrid branching unit 

No TX power back-off required in either mode, nor do you need to back-off the 
TX power when using POE.



The ALFOPlus2XG radio has independent modem & RF, so there is flexibility on 
how you could setup each radio. Each carrier can have its own channel bandwidth 
& modulation.



The branching units are field changeable and allow the ODU to bolt directly to 
the back of the antenna.







Thanks,

 



 

Joe Schraml

VP Sales Operations & Marketing

SIAE Microelettronica, Inc.

+1 (408) 832-4884

joseph.schr...@siaemic.com

www.siaemic.com




>>> Mathew Howard  1/4/2021 12:01 PM >>>

 
Yeah, you can do 2 x 80mhz channels with a single core on some radios, but 
there are some limitations. Depending on the radio, my understanding is that 
they have to either be adjacent, or very near each other (definitely within the 
same sub-band). It seems to me that some radios can even do two different sizes 
of channels (like 1 80mhz + 1 40mhz), but I could be remembering that wrong. If 
I understand it right, the Aviat radios have a significant tx power hit when 
you activate that feature, which probably makes it unusable in a lot of cases. 
We're doing that on a Bridgewave 11ghz link (using 4x 80mhz on a dual core 
radio), and there's it works fine, with only a minor performance hit on those 
radios. SIAE does have that feature as well, but I don't remember if there was 
a significant performance hit or not... I think they may have been the ones 
that could use two different sizes of channels.






On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 1:51 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:


Probably, LinkPlanner is pretty smart.
 I assume you don't want to use 2 antennas.
 There are some licensed radios now that I think can do 2 x 80 MHz channels in 
a single core, like from Aviat or SIAE maybe, I don't know if this gets around 
the splitter cost and performance issues. I may have that feature completely 
wrong, I haven't looked into it. There could also be a performance hit by using 
the same xmt power amp for 160 MHz.
 I also haven't checked out the full feature set of the new PTP850C, the only 
thing I know it has is SFP+.

  Original Message 
 From: "Adam Moffett" 
 Sent: 1/4/2021 1:30:45 PM
 To: af@af.afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

 Ok yeah, the Link Planner BOM shows some splitters. I wonder if Link 
 Planner already accounted for the additional losses when I selected "Co 
 Polar" on the dropdown.


 On 1/4/2021 2:25 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
 > I seem to remember that different channel different polarization is the 
 > best, if your radio manufacturer charges for an XPIC license key. Next best 
 > is XPIC. And that the problem with different channel same polarization is 
 > you need a splitter which costs several dB of system gain. But that's from 
 > memory, and mine is not so reliable.
 >
 >  Original Message 
 > From: "Adam Moffett" 
 > Sent: 1/4/2021 1:16:26 PM
 > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
 > Subject: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
 >
 > I'm looking at a path where the coordinator can get me two 50mhz XPIC
 > channels, or two 80mhz H-Pol channels.
 >
 > I've never installed co-polar. Do you need a lot of extra junk to make
 > that work?
 >
 >
 >

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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP remote password reset

[Jaime Solorza]

Remove poe cable and insert 4 times... goes back to default

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021, 1:38 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I have an SM out in the field that I've lost the http password to. I
> have SNMP read/write access, and it is connected to CNMaestro.  Is there
> any way to reset the password without a truck roll?
>
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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP remote password reset

[Nate Burke]

Thanks all.

I got it reset

On 1/4/2021 2:59 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


I've done this.

You'll see the password in hashed form when you download config from 
another SM.  Then just copy + paste.



On 1/4/2021 3:49 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
I thought that might be the way.  How would you extract a known 
hash?  I don't' see the password hash as part of the viewable config.


On 1/4/2021 2:46 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Use a template and write the password with a known hash via CNM.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 3:38 PM Nate Burke > wrote:


I have an SM out in the field that I've lost the http password
to. I
have SNMP read/write access, and it is connected to CNMaestro. 
Is there

any way to reset the password without a truck roll?

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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP remote password reset

[Adam Moffett]

I've done this.

You'll see the password in hashed form when you download config from 
another SM.  Then just copy + paste.



On 1/4/2021 3:49 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
I thought that might be the way.  How would you extract a known hash?  
I don't' see the password hash as part of the viewable config.


On 1/4/2021 2:46 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Use a template and write the password with a known hash via CNM.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 3:38 PM Nate Burke > wrote:


I have an SM out in the field that I've lost the http password to. I
have SNMP read/write access, and it is connected to CNMaestro. 
Is there
any way to reset the password without a truck roll?

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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP remote password reset

[Steve Jones]

{
  "device_props": {
"cambiumSysAccountsTable": [
  {
"cambiumSysAccountsName": "admin",
"cambiumSysAccountsHash": "HASH",
"cambiumSysAccountsUID": "1000",
"cambiumSysAccountsGID": "4",
"cambiumSysAccountsDir": "\/tmp",
"cambiumSysAccountsShell": "\/usr\/bin\/clish"
 },
 {
"cambiumSysAccountsName": "installer",
"cambiumSysAccountsHash": " HASH  ",
"cambiumSysAccountsUID": "2000",
"cambiumSysAccountsGID": "100",
"cambiumSysAccountsDir": "\/tmp",
"cambiumSysAccountsShell": "\/bin\/false"
 },
 {
"cambiumSysAccountsName": "home",
"cambiumSysAccountsHash": " HASH ",
"cambiumSysAccountsUID": "3000",
"cambiumSysAccountsGID": "100",
"cambiumSysAccountsDir": "\/tmp",
"cambiumSysAccountsShell": "\/bin\/false"
 },
 {
"cambiumSysAccountsName": "readonly",
"cambiumSysAccountsHash": " HASH ",
"cambiumSysAccountsUID": "4000",
"cambiumSysAccountsGID": "100",
"cambiumSysAccountsDir": "\/tmp",
"cambiumSysAccountsShell": "\/bin\/false"
 },
 {
"cambiumSysAccountsName": "dashboard",
"cambiumSysAccountsHash": " HASH ",
"cambiumSysAccountsUID": "5000",
"cambiumSysAccountsGID": "100",
"cambiumSysAccountsDir": "\/tmp",
"cambiumSysAccountsShell": "\/bin\/false"
  }
]
  }
}

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 2:47 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Use a template and write the password with a known hash via CNM.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 3:38 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> I have an SM out in the field that I've lost the http password to. I
>> have SNMP read/write access, and it is connected to CNMaestro.  Is there
>> any way to reset the password without a truck roll?
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP remote password reset

[Nate Burke]

I thought that might be the way.  How would you extract a known hash?  I 
don't' see the password hash as part of the viewable config.


On 1/4/2021 2:46 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Use a template and write the password with a known hash via CNM.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 3:38 PM Nate Burke > wrote:


I have an SM out in the field that I've lost the http password to. I
have SNMP read/write access, and it is connected to CNMaestro.  Is
there
any way to reset the password without a truck roll?

-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP remote password reset

[Josh Luthman]

Use a template and write the password with a known hash via CNM.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 3:38 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I have an SM out in the field that I've lost the http password to. I
> have SNMP read/write access, and it is connected to CNMaestro.  Is there
> any way to reset the password without a truck roll?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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[AFMUG] EPMP remote password reset

[Nate Burke]

I have an SM out in the field that I've lost the http password to. I 
have SNMP read/write access, and it is connected to CNMaestro.  Is there 
any way to reset the password without a truck roll?


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Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, I was responding to what Ken said about using a single core radio.
Using a dual-core radio is obviously going to give you a lot more
flexibility, but if the available channels happen to be in the right place
(which probably really isn't very likely in this case), you can do it a lot
cheaper that way.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 2:21 PM Tim Hardy  wrote:

> The dual-core WTM-4200 radio only suffers a coupler loss hit. I think
> you’re referencing the single-core WTM-4100 using Adaptive Dual Carrier
> (A2C) which has a significant power hit at 1024 QAM and above.
>
> On Jan 4, 2021, at 3:01 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
>
> Yeah, you can do 2 x 80mhz channels with a single core on some radios, but
> there are some limitations. Depending on the radio, my understanding is
> that they have to either be adjacent, or very near each other (definitely
> within the same sub-band). It seems to me that some radios can even do two
> different sizes of channels (like 1 80mhz + 1 40mhz), but I could be
> remembering that wrong. If I understand it right, the Aviat radios have a
> significant tx power hit when you activate that feature, which probably
> makes it unusable in a lot of cases. We're doing that on a Bridgewave 11ghz
> link (using 4x 80mhz on a dual core radio), and there's it works fine, with
> only a minor performance hit on those radios. SIAE does have that feature
> as well, but I don't remember if there was a significant performance hit or
> not... I think they may have been the ones that could use two different
> sizes of channels.
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 1:51 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Probably, LinkPlanner is pretty smart.
>> I assume you don't want to use 2 antennas.
>> There are some licensed radios now that I think can do 2 x 80 MHz
>> channels in a single core, like from Aviat or SIAE maybe, I don't know if
>> this gets around the splitter cost and performance issues.  I may have that
>> feature completely wrong, I haven't looked into it.  There could also be a
>> performance hit by using the same xmt power amp for 160 MHz.
>> I also haven't checked out the full feature set of the new PTP850C, the
>> only thing I know it has is SFP+.
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> From: "Adam Moffett" 
>> Sent: 1/4/2021 1:30:45 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
>>
>> Ok yeah, the Link Planner BOM shows some splitters.  I wonder if Link
>> Planner already accounted for the additional losses when I selected "Co
>> Polar" on the dropdown.
>>
>>
>> On 1/4/2021 2:25 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> > I seem to remember that different channel different polarization is the
>> best, if your radio manufacturer charges for an XPIC license key.  Next
>> best is XPIC.  And that the problem with different channel same
>> polarization is you need a splitter which costs several dB of system gain.
>> But that's from memory, and mine is not so reliable.
>> >
>> >  Original Message 
>> > From: "Adam Moffett" 
>> > Sent: 1/4/2021 1:16:26 PM
>> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> > Subject: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
>> >
>> > I'm looking at a path where the coordinator can get me two 50mhz XPIC
>> > channels, or two 80mhz H-Pol channels.
>> >
>> > I've never installed co-polar.  Do you need a lot of extra junk to make
>> > that work?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
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>>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Tim Hardy]

The dual-core WTM-4200 radio only suffers a coupler loss hit. I think you’re 
referencing the single-core WTM-4100 using Adaptive Dual Carrier (A2C) which 
has a significant power hit at 1024 QAM and above.

> On Jan 4, 2021, at 3:01 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
> 
> Yeah, you can do 2 x 80mhz channels with a single core on some radios, but 
> there are some limitations. Depending on the radio, my understanding is that 
> they have to either be adjacent, or very near each other (definitely within 
> the same sub-band). It seems to me that some radios can even do two different 
> sizes of channels (like 1 80mhz + 1 40mhz), but I could be remembering that 
> wrong. If I understand it right, the Aviat radios have a significant tx power 
> hit when you activate that feature, which probably makes it unusable in a lot 
> of cases. We're doing that on a Bridgewave 11ghz link (using 4x 80mhz on a 
> dual core radio), and there's it works fine, with only a minor performance 
> hit on those radios. SIAE does have that feature as well, but I don't 
> remember if there was a significant performance hit or not... I think they 
> may have been the ones that could use two different sizes of channels.
> 
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 1:51 PM Ken Hohhof  > wrote:
> Probably, LinkPlanner is pretty smart.
> I assume you don't want to use 2 antennas.
> There are some licensed radios now that I think can do 2 x 80 MHz channels in 
> a single core, like from Aviat or SIAE maybe, I don't know if this gets 
> around the splitter cost and performance issues.  I may have that feature 
> completely wrong, I haven't looked into it.  There could also be a 
> performance hit by using the same xmt power amp for 160 MHz.
> I also haven't checked out the full feature set of the new PTP850C, the only 
> thing I know it has is SFP+.
> 
>  Original Message 
> From: "Adam Moffett" mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
> Sent: 1/4/2021 1:30:45 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
> 
> Ok yeah, the Link Planner BOM shows some splitters.  I wonder if Link 
> Planner already accounted for the additional losses when I selected "Co 
> Polar" on the dropdown.
> 
> 
> On 1/4/2021 2:25 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > I seem to remember that different channel different polarization is the 
> > best, if your radio manufacturer charges for an XPIC license key.  Next 
> > best is XPIC.  And that the problem with different channel same 
> > polarization is you need a splitter which costs several dB of system gain.  
> > But that's from memory, and mine is not so reliable.
> >
> >  Original Message 
> > From: "Adam Moffett" mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>
> > Sent: 1/4/2021 1:16:26 PM
> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  > >
> > Subject: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
> >
> > I'm looking at a path where the coordinator can get me two 50mhz XPIC
> > channels, or two 80mhz H-Pol channels.
> >
> > I've never installed co-polar.  Do you need a lot of extra junk to make
> > that work?
> >
> >
> >
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...

[Jason McKemie]

I actually like some kombucha, the health benefits are inconclusive though.
It is a bit like sour beer (intentionally sour, not because it is old or
spoiled), which I am also a fan of.

On Monday, January 4, 2021, Bill Prince  wrote:

> If you've ever tasted Kombucha, you would understand why they left it.
>
> Of course, if you'd walked ~~ 50 yards further, you may have discovered
> their bodies where they fell and died after drinking Kombucha.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 1/4/2021 9:42 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> I am getting tired of the "going out as little as possible" practice.
>
> I usually retreat to the state forest, but lately the state forests are
> filled with humans.  I could fill a garbage bag every time I go out now
> because those filthy human bastards keep leaving junk in the woods.  The
> other day I found a stock pot and four bottles of Kombucha about 50 yards
> off a trail.  I'm really confused about what they made, and more confused
> about why they left it.  I thought Kombucha was a hippie dippie health
> drink, but I also thought dippie hippies would know better than to leave
> their trash in the forest.  They must have dragged that 5 gallon steel pot
> out there and then after drinking all their Kombucha stew or whatever they
> were just too darn wore out to carry it all the way back.
>
> I want to go out to visit the people I like or to hide from everyone
> else.  I can't succeed at either one right now.  Hence my search for land.
>
>
>
> On 1/4/2021 12:20 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Things couldn’t get worse than 2020.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2021 9:54 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...
>
>
>
> Gotta reserve “an abundance of caution “ for legal filings.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Jan 1, 2021, at 8:13 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 
>
> And based on where Steve is located, I assume he’s starting off 2021 with
> the second ice storm of the week.  I guess 2020 puts things in
> perspective.  Years from now we’ll be boring our grandkids with stories of
> 2020 the year from hell.
>
>
>
> May people stop using words and phrases like:
>
> - social distancing
>
> - the new normal
>
> - an abundance of caution
>
> - unprecedented times
>
> - doomscrolling
>
> - covidiot
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 31, 2020 10:39 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...
>
>
>
> Amen to that. Shitshow doesnt even begin to describe this stain on the
> timeline.
>
> But there was some good. I dont know what it was, but I'm gonna assume
> there was some
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 7:46 PM Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
> wrote:
>
> Word!
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
> > On Dec 31, 2020, at 8:40 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > And hopefulness that 2021 will be an improvement over 2020.
> >
> > --
> > - Forrest
> > --
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> >
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Joseph.Schraml]

Adam - 



SIAE's ALFOPlus2XG radio can do this easily.



One ODU (two radios in one housing) with a Hybrid Branching unit connects 
directly to the back of a single pole antenna.



Setup would be just like any other MW radio.



Let me know if you need any more info.





Thanks,

 



 

Joe Schraml

VP Sales Operations & Marketing

SIAE Microelettronica, Inc.

+1 (408) 832-4884

joseph.schr...@siaemic.com

www.siaemic.com




>>> Adam Moffett  1/4/2021 11:15 AM >>>


I'm looking at a path where the coordinator can get me two 50mhz XPIC 
channels, or two 80mhz H-Pol channels.

I've never installed co-polar.  Do you need a lot of extra junk to make 
that work?



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Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Tim Hardy]

2+0 Co-Polarization will add couplers and losses on each end, and I believe 
that LinkPlanner automatically puts those in when you specify this. With the 
Aviat WTM, you would be using the WTM-42C (coupler version) which has the 
coupler losses baked-in to the specs.


> On Jan 4, 2021, at 2:51 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> Probably, LinkPlanner is pretty smart.
> I assume you don't want to use 2 antennas.
> There are some licensed radios now that I think can do 2 x 80 MHz channels in 
> a single core, like from Aviat or SIAE maybe, I don't know if this gets 
> around the splitter cost and performance issues.  I may have that feature 
> completely wrong, I haven't looked into it.  There could also be a 
> performance hit by using the same xmt power amp for 160 MHz.
> I also haven't checked out the full feature set of the new PTP850C, the only 
> thing I know it has is SFP+.
> 
>  Original Message 
> From: "Adam Moffett" 
> Sent: 1/4/2021 1:30:45 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
> 
> Ok yeah, the Link Planner BOM shows some splitters.  I wonder if Link 
> Planner already accounted for the additional losses when I selected "Co 
> Polar" on the dropdown.
> 
> 
> On 1/4/2021 2:25 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> I seem to remember that different channel different polarization is the 
>> best, if your radio manufacturer charges for an XPIC license key.  Next best 
>> is XPIC.  And that the problem with different channel same polarization is 
>> you need a splitter which costs several dB of system gain.  But that's from 
>> memory, and mine is not so reliable.
>> 
>>  Original Message 
>> From: "Adam Moffett" 
>> Sent: 1/4/2021 1:16:26 PM
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
>> 
>> I'm looking at a path where the coordinator can get me two 50mhz XPIC
>> channels, or two 80mhz H-Pol channels.
>> 
>> I've never installed co-polar.  Do you need a lot of extra junk to make
>> that work?
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, you can do 2 x 80mhz channels with a single core on some radios, but
there are some limitations. Depending on the radio, my understanding is
that they have to either be adjacent, or very near each other (definitely
within the same sub-band). It seems to me that some radios can even do two
different sizes of channels (like 1 80mhz + 1 40mhz), but I could be
remembering that wrong. If I understand it right, the Aviat radios have a
significant tx power hit when you activate that feature, which probably
makes it unusable in a lot of cases. We're doing that on a Bridgewave 11ghz
link (using 4x 80mhz on a dual core radio), and there's it works fine, with
only a minor performance hit on those radios. SIAE does have that feature
as well, but I don't remember if there was a significant performance hit or
not... I think they may have been the ones that could use two different
sizes of channels.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 1:51 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Probably, LinkPlanner is pretty smart.
> I assume you don't want to use 2 antennas.
> There are some licensed radios now that I think can do 2 x 80 MHz channels
> in a single core, like from Aviat or SIAE maybe, I don't know if this gets
> around the splitter cost and performance issues.  I may have that feature
> completely wrong, I haven't looked into it.  There could also be a
> performance hit by using the same xmt power amp for 160 MHz.
> I also haven't checked out the full feature set of the new PTP850C, the
> only thing I know it has is SFP+.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Adam Moffett" 
> Sent: 1/4/2021 1:30:45 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
>
> Ok yeah, the Link Planner BOM shows some splitters.  I wonder if Link
> Planner already accounted for the additional losses when I selected "Co
> Polar" on the dropdown.
>
>
> On 1/4/2021 2:25 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > I seem to remember that different channel different polarization is the
> best, if your radio manufacturer charges for an XPIC license key.  Next
> best is XPIC.  And that the problem with different channel same
> polarization is you need a splitter which costs several dB of system gain.
> But that's from memory, and mine is not so reliable.
> >
> >  Original Message 
> > From: "Adam Moffett" 
> > Sent: 1/4/2021 1:16:26 PM
> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> > Subject: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
> >
> > I'm looking at a path where the coordinator can get me two 50mhz XPIC
> > channels, or two 80mhz H-Pol channels.
> >
> > I've never installed co-polar.  Do you need a lot of extra junk to make
> > that work?
> >
> >
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Steve Jones]

with aviat you have to have a coupler rather than OMT, I assume its the
same across the board. Ken Ruppel Lingers here, he can tell you more. The
gears good and the extended warranties are criminally cheap

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 1:51 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Probably, LinkPlanner is pretty smart.
> I assume you don't want to use 2 antennas.
> There are some licensed radios now that I think can do 2 x 80 MHz channels
> in a single core, like from Aviat or SIAE maybe, I don't know if this gets
> around the splitter cost and performance issues.  I may have that feature
> completely wrong, I haven't looked into it.  There could also be a
> performance hit by using the same xmt power amp for 160 MHz.
> I also haven't checked out the full feature set of the new PTP850C, the
> only thing I know it has is SFP+.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Adam Moffett" 
> Sent: 1/4/2021 1:30:45 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
>
> Ok yeah, the Link Planner BOM shows some splitters.  I wonder if Link
> Planner already accounted for the additional losses when I selected "Co
> Polar" on the dropdown.
>
>
> On 1/4/2021 2:25 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > I seem to remember that different channel different polarization is the
> best, if your radio manufacturer charges for an XPIC license key.  Next
> best is XPIC.  And that the problem with different channel same
> polarization is you need a splitter which costs several dB of system gain.
> But that's from memory, and mine is not so reliable.
> >
> >  Original Message 
> > From: "Adam Moffett" 
> > Sent: 1/4/2021 1:16:26 PM
> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> > Subject: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
> >
> > I'm looking at a path where the coordinator can get me two 50mhz XPIC
> > channels, or two 80mhz H-Pol channels.
> >
> > I've never installed co-polar.  Do you need a lot of extra junk to make
> > that work?
> >
> >
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Chuck McCown via AF]

LDS does this with all church properties as well as BYU.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2021, at 12:28 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
>  Investopedia article on squatting / adverse possession says they close 
> Rockefeller Center for one full day each year to prevent squatters.
> 
>  Original Message 
> From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
> Sent: 1/4/2021 1:22:03 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: "Chuck McCown" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
> 
> I think the only way you can get land that way in Utah is if you had presumed 
> you owned it and the county tax assessor did too.  I think you have had to 
> use it for 19 years and all the while being open and notorious.  Here is a 
> list:
> There must be a “hostile” claim: the trespasser must either
> make an honest mistake (like relying on an incorrect deed);
> merely occupy the land (with or without knowledge that it is private 
> property); or
> be aware of his or her trespassing;
> There must be actual possession: the trespasser must be physically present on 
> the land, treating it as his or her own;
> There must be open and notorious possession: the act of trespassing cannot be 
> secret; and
> There must be exclusive and continuous possession: the trespasser cannot 
> share possession with others, and must be in possession of the land for an 
> uninterrupted period of time.
>  
> From: Adam Moffett
> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 11:59 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
>  
> That's adverse possession.  You have to invest several years of your life 
> into that.  Live there openly with nobody stopping you for years, and 
> apparently in some places go pay the property taxes too. 
> 
> I'm fascinated that it's a real thing, but I'm not sure how you do it.  Maybe 
> you'd find a property owned by an absentee landowner.  Start squatting.  Tell 
> the neighbors you've "moved in down the road" without specifying any other 
> details.  Smile and wave when you drive by so they all know you're there.  
> Quietly go pay the taxes.  Hope the landowner ignores his tax statements or 
> doesn't question why the balance is always zero.  Or maybe you convince the 
> muni to send the statement to you instead of the owner.  When the timer 
> expires get your lawyer to start proceedings.
> 
> I think it's something along those lines. I think people who pull that off 
> must be either very lucky or very clever. Plan B is a stint in jail for 
> criminal trespassing and criminal mischief and whatever else they can think 
> of.  So either way I suppose you get a roof over your head.
> 
>  
> 
>> On 1/4/2021 1:25 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>> anybody looked into the squatter laws how those creeps are able to 
>> occasionally take possession of properties and magically become the lawful 
>> owners? seems that may be the least expensive way to obtain things
>>  
>>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:34 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>> California has a similar law. The period is 5 years, and there are a 
>>> series of points that need to be made. If the easement is considered 
>>> valid then the court "may" issue a payment to the land owner over which 
>>> the easement is granted.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> bp
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 1/3/2021 7:54 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>>> > Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement 
>>> > in situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of 
>>> > how he has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of 
>>> > describing it. MY understanding is it goes like this. If a person has 
>>> > been granted easement over a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 
>>> > 10 years but not sure) and there is evidence that it has been permitted 
>>> > (an old farm lane or access road is a good example) that has not been 
>>> > challenged by the property owner that you cannot use that access road. 
>>> > Then at least in NY that can be legally called a prescriptive easement, 
>>> > and as such you can actually file that and record it as a deeded 
>>> > easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and 
>>> > the case law has to be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some 
>>> > cases that he has helped, he looked up historical aerial images (not on 
>>> > line but at the local soil and water conservation district) and found 
>>> > stuff dating back to say 1927 or 1954. In these cases there was a lot 
>>> > less forest and he could see a farm lane or access road that was used. 
>>> > Enough use that it's very evident from the phot. Then with this 
>>> > information, he will go out on the land and try to find hints of that 
>>> > road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the current forested 
>>> > area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that prescriptive 
>>> > easement and then recorded a deeded easement.
>>> >
>>> > Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do 
>>> > this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land 

Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Ken Hohhof]

Probably, LinkPlanner is pretty smart.
I assume you don't want to use 2 antennas.
There are some licensed radios now that I think can do 2 x 80 MHz channels in a 
single core, like from Aviat or SIAE maybe, I don't know if this gets around 
the splitter cost and performance issues.  I may have that feature completely 
wrong, I haven't looked into it.  There could also be a performance hit by 
using the same xmt power amp for 160 MHz.
I also haven't checked out the full feature set of the new PTP850C, the only 
thing I know it has is SFP+.

 Original Message 
From: "Adam Moffett" 
Sent: 1/4/2021 1:30:45 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

Ok yeah, the Link Planner BOM shows some splitters.  I wonder if Link 
Planner already accounted for the additional losses when I selected "Co 
Polar" on the dropdown.


On 1/4/2021 2:25 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> I seem to remember that different channel different polarization is the best, 
> if your radio manufacturer charges for an XPIC license key.  Next best is 
> XPIC.  And that the problem with different channel same polarization is you 
> need a splitter which costs several dB of system gain.  But that's from 
> memory, and mine is not so reliable.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Adam Moffett" 
> Sent: 1/4/2021 1:16:26 PM
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Subject: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar
>
> I'm looking at a path where the coordinator can get me two 50mhz XPIC
> channels, or two 80mhz H-Pol channels.
>
> I've never installed co-polar.  Do you need a lot of extra junk to make
> that work?
>
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Mathew Howard]

You might have to fight me for it...

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 1:26 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Sounds like there's a camper I'm gonna go adversely possess.  What's the
> address?
> On 1/4/2021 2:18 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> Well, I suppose, if you could find some property where the owner hasn't
> paid the taxes (find one where the owner never pays until they start
> getting reminders for being late, for example), they might not notice if
> you just start paying it. Then just move in, and avoid the neighbors as
> much as possible.
>
> I have some neighbors that I'm fairly certain haven't set foot on their
> property in the 5-6 years that I've owned mine (it's vacant land, aside
> from a camper trailer which, judging from the weeds, hasn't been touched in
> a decade or so). I've always wondered why they keep paying ~$2k in taxes
> every year instead of selling it, but I suppose they have some kind of
> grand plans for it...
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 1:00 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> That's adverse possession.  You have to invest several years of your life
>> into that.  Live there openly with nobody stopping you for years, and
>> apparently in some places go pay the property taxes too.
>>
>>  I'm fascinated that it's a real thing, but I'm not sure how you do it.
>> Maybe you'd find a property owned by an absentee landowner.  Start
>> squatting.  Tell the neighbors you've "moved in down the road" without
>> specifying any other details.  Smile and wave when you drive by so they all
>> know you're there.  Quietly go pay the taxes.  Hope the landowner ignores
>> his tax statements or doesn't question why the balance is always zero.  Or
>> maybe you convince the muni to send the statement to you instead of the
>> owner.  When the timer expires get your lawyer to start proceedings.
>>
>> I think it's something along those lines. I think people who pull that
>> off must be either very lucky or very clever. Plan B is a stint in jail for
>> criminal trespassing and criminal mischief and whatever else they can think
>> of.  So either way I suppose you get a roof over your head.
>>
>>
>> On 1/4/2021 1:25 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> anybody looked into the squatter laws how those creeps are able to
>> occasionally take possession of properties and magically become the lawful
>> owners? seems that may be the least expensive way to obtain things
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:34 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> California has a similar law. The period is 5 years, and there are a
>>> series of points that need to be made. If the easement is considered
>>> valid then the court "may" issue a payment to the land owner over which
>>> the easement is granted.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 1/3/2021 7:54 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>>> > Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive
>>> easement in situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my
>>> understanding of how he has done this in some cases is probably not the
>>> legal way of describing it. MY understanding is it goes like this. If a
>>> person has been granted easement over a property over a period of time (I
>>> think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and there is evidence that it has been
>>> permitted (an old farm lane or access road is a good example) that has not
>>> been challenged by the property owner that you cannot use that access road.
>>> Then at least in NY that can be legally called a prescriptive easement, and
>>> as such you can actually file that and record it as a deeded easement. It's
>>> not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and the case law has to
>>> be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that he has helped,
>>> he looked up historical aerial images (not on line but at the local soil
>>> and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 1927 or
>>> 1954. In these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a farm
>>> lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from
>>> the phot. Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to
>>> find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the
>>> current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that
>>> prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.
>>> >
>>> > Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could
>>> do this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my
>>> description cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws
>>> and case law may be different in various states so check on that with
>>> someone who is qualified on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a
>>> limited right to practice law in land issues for cases like this. My
>>> brother always said that was the hardest part of his surveyors license to
>>> get through. He spent a lot of time studying and reviewing case law.
>>> >
>>> > Thank you,
>>> > Brian Webster
>>> > www.wirelessmapping.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 

Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Adam Moffett]

Ok yeah, the Link Planner BOM shows some splitters.  I wonder if Link 
Planner already accounted for the additional losses when I selected "Co 
Polar" on the dropdown.



On 1/4/2021 2:25 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I seem to remember that different channel different polarization is the best, 
if your radio manufacturer charges for an XPIC license key.  Next best is XPIC. 
 And that the problem with different channel same polarization is you need a 
splitter which costs several dB of system gain.  But that's from memory, and 
mine is not so reliable.

 Original Message 
From: "Adam Moffett" 
Sent: 1/4/2021 1:16:26 PM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

I'm looking at a path where the coordinator can get me two 50mhz XPIC
channels, or two 80mhz H-Pol channels.

I've never installed co-polar.  Do you need a lot of extra junk to make
that work?





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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Ken Hohhof]

   Investopedia article on squatting / adverse possession says they close 
Rockefeller Center for one full day each year to prevent squatters.

  Original Message 
 From: "Chuck McCown via AF" af@af.afmug.com
 Sent: 1/4/2021 1:22:03 PM
 To: af@af.afmug.com
 Cc: "Chuck McCown" ch...@go-mtc.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

  





I think the only way you can get land that way in Utah is if you had presumed 
you owned it and the county tax assessor did too.  I think you have had to use 
it for 19 years and all the while being open and notorious.  Here is a list:  
There must be a hostile claim: the trespasser must either  make an honest 
mistake (like relying on an incorrect deed);  merely occupy the land (with or 
without knowledge that it is private property); or  be aware of his or her 
trespassing;   There must be actual possession: the trespasser must be 
physically present on the land, treating it as his or her own;  There must be 
open and notorious possession: the act of trespassing cannot be secret; and  
There must be exclusive and continuous possession: the trespasser cannot share 
possession with others, and must be in possession of the land for an 
uninterrupted period of time.  









From: Adam Moffett  

Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 11:59 AM 

To: af@af.afmug.com  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land   





That's adverse possession.  You have to invest several years of your life into 
that.  Live there openly with nobody stopping you for years, and apparently in 
some places go pay the property taxes too.   

I'm fascinated that it's a real thing, but I'm not sure how you do it.  Maybe 
you'd find a property owned by an absentee landowner.  Start squatting.  Tell 
the neighbors you've "moved in down the road" without specifying any other 
details.  Smile and wave when you drive by so they all know you're there.  
Quietly go pay the taxes.  Hope the landowner ignores his tax statements or 
doesn't question why the balance is always zero.  Or maybe you convince the 
muni to send the statement to you instead of the owner.  When the timer expires 
get your lawyer to start proceedings. 

I think it's something along those lines. I think people who pull that off must 
be either very lucky or very clever. Plan B is a stint in jail for criminal 
trespassing and criminal mischief and whatever else they can think of.  So 
either way I suppose you get a roof over your head. 



On 1/4/2021 1:25 PM, Steve Jones wrote:  

anybody looked into the squatter laws how those creeps are able to occasionally 
take possession of properties and magically become the lawful owners? seems 
that may be the least expensive way to obtain things 





On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:34 AM Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com wrote: 
California has a similar law. The period is 5 years, and there are a 
 series of points that need to be made. If the easement is considered 
 valid then the court "may" issue a payment to the land owner over which 
 the easement is granted.

 
 bp
 part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com

 On 1/3/2021 7:54 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
  Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement in 
situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of how he 
has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of describing it. MY 
understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been granted easement over 
a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and there 
is evidence that it has been permitted (an old farm lane or access road is a 
good example) that has not been challenged by the property owner that you 
cannot use that access road. Then at least in NY that can be legally called a 
prescriptive easement, and as such you can actually file that and record it as 
a deeded easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and 
the case law has to be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that 
he has helped, he looked up historical aerial images (not on line but at the 
local soil and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 
1927 or 1954. In these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a 
farm lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from 
the phot. Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to 
find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the 
current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that 
prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.

  Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do this 
with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my description 
cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws and case law may 
be different in various states so check on that with someone who is qualified 
on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a limited right to practice law in 
land issues for cases like 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Adam Moffett]

Sounds like there's a camper I'm gonna go adversely possess. What's the 
address?


On 1/4/2021 2:18 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Well, I suppose, if you could find some property where the owner 
hasn't paid the taxes (find one where the owner never pays until they 
start getting reminders for being late, for example), they might not 
notice if you just start paying it. Then just move in, and avoid the 
neighbors as much as possible.


I have some neighbors that I'm fairly certain haven't set foot on 
their property in the 5-6 years that I've owned mine (it's vacant 
land, aside from a camper trailer which, judging from the weeds, 
hasn't been touched in a decade or so). I've always wondered why they 
keep paying ~$2k in taxes every year instead of selling it, but I 
suppose they have some kind of grand plans for it...



On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 1:00 PM Adam Moffett > wrote:


That's adverse possession.  You have to invest several years of
your life into that.  Live there openly with nobody stopping you
for years, and apparently in some places go pay the property taxes
too.

 I'm fascinated that it's a real thing, but I'm not sure how you
do it.  Maybe you'd find a property owned by an absentee
landowner.  Start squatting.  Tell the neighbors you've "moved in
down the road" without specifying any other details.  Smile and
wave when you drive by so they all know you're there.  Quietly go
pay the taxes.  Hope the landowner ignores his tax statements or
doesn't question why the balance is always zero.  Or maybe you
convince the muni to send the statement to you instead of the
owner.  When the timer expires get your lawyer to start proceedings.

I think it's something along those lines. I think people who pull
that off must be either very lucky or very clever. Plan B is a
stint in jail for criminal trespassing and criminal mischief and
whatever else they can think of.  So either way I suppose you get
a roof over your head.


On 1/4/2021 1:25 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

anybody looked into the squatter laws how those creeps are able
to occasionally take possession of properties and magically
become the lawful owners? seems that may be the least
expensive way to obtain things

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:34 AM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

California has a similar law. The period is 5 years, and
there are a
series of points that need to be made. If the easement is
considered
valid then the court "may" issue a payment to the land owner
over which
the easement is granted.


bp


On 1/3/2021 7:54 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
> Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a
prescriptive easement in situations like this. Mt brother is
a surveyor so my understanding of how he has done this in
some cases is probably not the legal way of describing it. MY
understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been
granted easement over a property over a period of time (I
think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and there is evidence that
it has been permitted (an old farm lane or access road is a
good example) that has not been challenged by the property
owner that you cannot use that access road. Then at least in
NY that can be legally called a prescriptive easement, and as
such you can actually file that and record it as a deeded
easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot of
posturing and the case law has to be argued in court in a lot
of cases. So in some cases that he has helped, he looked up
historical aerial images (not on line but at the local soil
and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back
to say 1927 or 1954. In these cases there was a lot less
forest and he could see a farm lane or access road that was
used. Enough use that it's very evident from the phot. Then
with this information, he will go out on the land and try to
find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that
road, even in the current forested area, he helped the
landlocked property owner gain that prescriptive easement and
then recorded a deeded easement.
>
> Some of that cheap land locked property might be something
you could do this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed
land surveyor so my description cannot be taken and legal
advice. Prescriptive easement laws and case law may be
different in various states so check on that with someone who
is qualified on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a
limited right to practice law in land issues for cases like
this. My brother always said that was the hardest part of his
surveyors 

Re: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Ken Hohhof]

I seem to remember that different channel different polarization is the best, 
if your radio manufacturer charges for an XPIC license key.  Next best is XPIC. 
 And that the problem with different channel same polarization is you need a 
splitter which costs several dB of system gain.  But that's from memory, and 
mine is not so reliable.

 Original Message 
From: "Adam Moffett" 
Sent: 1/4/2021 1:16:26 PM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: [AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

I'm looking at a path where the coordinator can get me two 50mhz XPIC 
channels, or two 80mhz H-Pol channels.

I've never installed co-polar.  Do you need a lot of extra junk to make 
that work?



-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I think the only way you can get land that way in Utah is if you had presumed 
you owned it and the county tax assessor did too.  I think you have had to use 
it for 19 years and all the while being open and notorious.  Here is a list:
  a.. There must be a “hostile” claim: the trespasser must either 
a.. make an honest mistake (like relying on an incorrect deed); 
b.. merely occupy the land (with or without knowledge that it is private 
property); or 
c.. be aware of his or her trespassing;
  b.. There must be actual possession: the trespasser must be physically 
present on the land, treating it as his or her own; 
  c.. There must be open and notorious possession: the act of trespassing 
cannot be secret; and 
  d.. There must be exclusive and continuous possession: the trespasser cannot 
share possession with others, and must be in possession of the land for an 
uninterrupted period of time.

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 11:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

That's adverse possession.  You have to invest several years of your life into 
that.  Live there openly with nobody stopping you for years, and apparently in 
some places go pay the property taxes too.  


I'm fascinated that it's a real thing, but I'm not sure how you do it.  Maybe 
you'd find a property owned by an absentee landowner.  Start squatting.  Tell 
the neighbors you've "moved in down the road" without specifying any other 
details.  Smile and wave when you drive by so they all know you're there.  
Quietly go pay the taxes.  Hope the landowner ignores his tax statements or 
doesn't question why the balance is always zero.  Or maybe you convince the 
muni to send the statement to you instead of the owner.  When the timer expires 
get your lawyer to start proceedings.

I think it's something along those lines. I think people who pull that off must 
be either very lucky or very clever. Plan B is a stint in jail for criminal 
trespassing and criminal mischief and whatever else they can think of.  So 
either way I suppose you get a roof over your head.




On 1/4/2021 1:25 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

  anybody looked into the squatter laws how those creeps are able to 
occasionally take possession of properties and magically become the lawful 
owners? seems that may be the least expensive way to obtain things

  On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:34 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

California has a similar law. The period is 5 years, and there are a 
series of points that need to be made. If the easement is considered 
valid then the court "may" issue a payment to the land owner over which 
the easement is granted.


bp


On 1/3/2021 7:54 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
> Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement 
in situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of how he 
has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of describing it. MY 
understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been granted easement over 
a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and there 
is evidence that it has been permitted (an old farm lane or access road is a 
good example) that has not been challenged by the property owner that you 
cannot use that access road. Then at least in NY that can be legally called a 
prescriptive easement, and as such you can actually file that and record it as 
a deeded easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and 
the case law has to be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that 
he has helped, he looked up historical aerial images (not on line but at the 
local soil and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 
1927 or 1954. In these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a 
farm lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from 
the phot. Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to 
find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the 
current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that 
prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.
>
> Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do 
this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my description 
cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws and case law may 
be different in various states so check on that with someone who is qualified 
on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a limited right to practice law in 
land issues for cases like this. My brother always said that was the hardest 
part of his surveyors license to get through. He spent a lot of time studying 
and reviewing case law.
>
> Thank you,
> Brian Webster
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
   

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Mathew Howard]

Well, I suppose, if you could find some property where the owner hasn't
paid the taxes (find one where the owner never pays until they start
getting reminders for being late, for example), they might not notice if
you just start paying it. Then just move in, and avoid the neighbors as
much as possible.

I have some neighbors that I'm fairly certain haven't set foot on their
property in the 5-6 years that I've owned mine (it's vacant land, aside
from a camper trailer which, judging from the weeds, hasn't been touched in
a decade or so). I've always wondered why they keep paying ~$2k in taxes
every year instead of selling it, but I suppose they have some kind of
grand plans for it...


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 1:00 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> That's adverse possession.  You have to invest several years of your life
> into that.  Live there openly with nobody stopping you for years, and
> apparently in some places go pay the property taxes too.
>
>  I'm fascinated that it's a real thing, but I'm not sure how you do it.
> Maybe you'd find a property owned by an absentee landowner.  Start
> squatting.  Tell the neighbors you've "moved in down the road" without
> specifying any other details.  Smile and wave when you drive by so they all
> know you're there.  Quietly go pay the taxes.  Hope the landowner ignores
> his tax statements or doesn't question why the balance is always zero.  Or
> maybe you convince the muni to send the statement to you instead of the
> owner.  When the timer expires get your lawyer to start proceedings.
>
> I think it's something along those lines. I think people who pull that off
> must be either very lucky or very clever. Plan B is a stint in jail for
> criminal trespassing and criminal mischief and whatever else they can think
> of.  So either way I suppose you get a roof over your head.
>
>
> On 1/4/2021 1:25 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> anybody looked into the squatter laws how those creeps are able to
> occasionally take possession of properties and magically become the lawful
> owners? seems that may be the least expensive way to obtain things
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:34 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> California has a similar law. The period is 5 years, and there are a
>> series of points that need to be made. If the easement is considered
>> valid then the court "may" issue a payment to the land owner over which
>> the easement is granted.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 1/3/2021 7:54 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> > Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement
>> in situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of
>> how he has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of
>> describing it. MY understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been
>> granted easement over a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10
>> years but not sure) and there is evidence that it has been permitted (an
>> old farm lane or access road is a good example) that has not been
>> challenged by the property owner that you cannot use that access road. Then
>> at least in NY that can be legally called a prescriptive easement, and as
>> such you can actually file that and record it as a deeded easement. It's
>> not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and the case law has to
>> be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that he has helped,
>> he looked up historical aerial images (not on line but at the local soil
>> and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 1927 or
>> 1954. In these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a farm
>> lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from
>> the phot. Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to
>> find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the
>> current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that
>> prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.
>> >
>> > Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do
>> this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my
>> description cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws
>> and case law may be different in various states so check on that with
>> someone who is qualified on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a
>> limited right to practice law in land issues for cases like this. My
>> brother always said that was the hardest part of his surveyors license to
>> get through. He spent a lot of time studying and reviewing case law.
>> >
>> > Thank you,
>> > Brian Webster
>> > www.wirelessmapping.com
>> >
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>> > Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
>> > To: af@af.afmug.com
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
>> >
>> > I think those are called land locked or something similar. Unless and
>> > until an owner (or prospective owner) 

[AFMUG] Check it out!

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Message Hello,

Good news! You have been approved for a /23 that has become available via 
ARIN's IPv4 Waiting List.

This approval is valid for 60 days.

You will receive a message from ARIN Financial Services that will contain 
details on the steps required to receive the IP addresses. If you do not 
complete the required steps within 60 days, this request will be removed from 
the waiting list and the block will be made available to another organization.

Regards,

Jon Worley
Senior Technology Architect
American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
https://www.arin.net/
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[AFMUG] 2+0 Co-Polar

[Adam Moffett]

I'm looking at a path where the coordinator can get me two 50mhz XPIC 
channels, or two 80mhz H-Pol channels.


I've never installed co-polar.  Do you need a lot of extra junk to make 
that work?




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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Adam Moffett]

That's adverse possession.  You have to invest several years of your 
life into that.  Live there openly with nobody stopping you for years, 
and apparently in some places go pay the property taxes too.


 I'm fascinated that it's a real thing, but I'm not sure how you do 
it.  Maybe you'd find a property owned by an absentee landowner.  Start 
squatting.  Tell the neighbors you've "moved in down the road" without 
specifying any other details.  Smile and wave when you drive by so they 
all know you're there.  Quietly go pay the taxes.  Hope the landowner 
ignores his tax statements or doesn't question why the balance is always 
zero.  Or maybe you convince the muni to send the statement to you 
instead of the owner.  When the timer expires get your lawyer to start 
proceedings.


I think it's something along those lines. I think people who pull that 
off must be either very lucky or very clever. Plan B is a stint in jail 
for criminal trespassing and criminal mischief and whatever else they 
can think of.  So either way I suppose you get a roof over your head.



On 1/4/2021 1:25 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
anybody looked into the squatter laws how those creeps are able to 
occasionally take possession of properties and magically become the 
lawful owners? seems that may be the least expensive way to obtain things


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:34 AM Bill Prince > wrote:


California has a similar law. The period is 5 years, and there are a
series of points that need to be made. If the easement is considered
valid then the court "may" issue a payment to the land owner over
which
the easement is granted.


bp


On 1/3/2021 7:54 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
> Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive
easement in situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my
understanding of how he has done this in some cases is probably
not the legal way of describing it. MY understanding is it goes
like this. If a person has been granted easement over a property
over a period of time (I think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and
there is evidence that it has been permitted (an old farm lane or
access road is a good example) that has not been challenged by the
property owner that you cannot use that access road. Then at least
in NY that can be legally called a prescriptive easement, and as
such you can actually file that and record it as a deeded
easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing
and the case law has to be argued in court in a lot of cases. So
in some cases that he has helped, he looked up historical aerial
images (not on line but at the local soil and water conservation
district) and found stuff dating back to say 1927 or 1954. In
these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a farm
lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very
evident from the phot. Then with this information, he will go out
on the land and try to find hints of that road or access lane. If
he finds that road, even in the current forested area, he helped
the landlocked property owner gain that prescriptive easement and
then recorded a deeded easement.
>
> Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you
could do this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land
surveyor so my description cannot be taken and legal advice.
Prescriptive easement laws and case law may be different in
various states so check on that with someone who is qualified on
the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a limited right to
practice law in land issues for cases like this. My brother always
said that was the hardest part of his surveyors license to get
through. He spent a lot of time studying and reviewing case law.
>
> Thank you,
> Brian Webster
> www.wirelessmapping.com 
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
>
> I think those are called land locked or something similar.
Unless and
> until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it
would be
> worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at
all.  I'm
>> not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is
selling it so
>> therefore they bought it at one time.
>>
>>
>> On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>> I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was
>>> divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Remember, those are two different issues. Adverse possession is
  one, and prescriptive easement is another.

bp

On 1/4/2021 10:29 AM, Mathew Howard
  wrote:


  
  
Even if you could get something like that to work for you
  legally, I don't think that I'd want to buy land with that
  situation... hostile neighbors aren't exactly something that
  I'd want to go looking for.


Personally, if I found a piece of landlocked land that I
  wanted, I'd go and talk to the neighbors beforehand and see if
  there's any chance of getting an easement from them.

  
  
  
On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 7:47 AM
  Adam Moffett  wrote:

I've
  only read about adverse possession, but I think the other
  party has 
  to have been aware of your use of the land and not done
  anything to stop 
  you for a number of years.
  
  On 1/4/2021 7:25 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
  > If it has been open to the public then it is
  prescriptive.  If just used be a private person other than the
  owner it can be a case of adverse possession or acquiescence. 
  Both a form of squatter’s rights.  Adverse possession is a
  very hard case to make.
  >
  > Sent from my iPhone
  >
  >> On Jan 3, 2021, at 8:54 PM, Brian Webster 
  wrote:
  >>
  >> Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a
  prescriptive easement in situations like this. Mt brother is a
  surveyor so my understanding of how he has done this in some
  cases is probably not the legal way of describing it. MY
  understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been
  granted easement over a property over a period of time (I
  think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and there is evidence that
  it has been permitted (an old farm lane or access road is a
  good example) that has not been challenged by the property
  owner that you cannot use that access road. Then at least in
  NY that can be legally called a prescriptive easement, and as
  such you can actually file that and record it as a deeded
  easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot of
  posturing and the case law has to be argued in court in a lot
  of cases. So in some cases that he has helped, he looked up
  historical aerial images (not on line but at the local soil
  and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back
  to say 1927 or 1954. In these cases there was a lot less
  forest and he could see a farm lane or access road that was
  used. Enough use that it's very evident from the phot. Then
  with this information, he will go out on the land and try to
  find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road,
  even in the current forested area, he helped the landlocked
  property owner gain that prescriptive easement and then
  recorded a deeded easement.
  >>
  >> Some of that cheap land locked property might be
  something you could do this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a
  licensed land surveyor so my description cannot be taken and
  legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws and case law may be
  different in various states so check on that with someone who
  is qualified on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a
  limited right to practice law in land issues for cases like
  this. My brother always said that was the hardest part of his
  surveyors license to get through. He spent a lot of time
  studying and reviewing case law.
  >>
  >> Thank you,
  >> Brian Webster
  >> www.wirelessmapping.com
  >>
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On
  Behalf Of Bill Prince
  >> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
  >> To: af@af.afmug.com
  >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
  >>
  >> I think those are called land locked or something
  similar. Unless and
  >> until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded
  access, it would be
  >> worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter
  pilot.
  >>
  >>
  >> bp
  >> 
  >>
  >>> On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
  >>> The absolute cheapest land seems to have no
  deeded access at all.  I'm
  >>> not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut
  someone is selling it so
  >>> therefore they bought it at 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Mathew Howard]

Even if you could get something like that to work for you legally, I don't
think that I'd want to buy land with that situation... hostile neighbors
aren't exactly something that I'd want to go looking for.

Personally, if I found a piece of landlocked land that I wanted, I'd go and
talk to the neighbors beforehand and see if there's any chance of getting
an easement from them.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 7:47 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I've only read about adverse possession, but I think the other party has
> to have been aware of your use of the land and not done anything to stop
> you for a number of years.
>
> On 1/4/2021 7:25 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> > If it has been open to the public then it is prescriptive.  If just used
> be a private person other than the owner it can be a case of adverse
> possession or acquiescence.  Both a form of squatter’s rights.  Adverse
> possession is a very hard case to make.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Jan 3, 2021, at 8:54 PM, Brian Webster 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive
> easement in situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my
> understanding of how he has done this in some cases is probably not the
> legal way of describing it. MY understanding is it goes like this. If a
> person has been granted easement over a property over a period of time (I
> think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and there is evidence that it has been
> permitted (an old farm lane or access road is a good example) that has not
> been challenged by the property owner that you cannot use that access road.
> Then at least in NY that can be legally called a prescriptive easement, and
> as such you can actually file that and record it as a deeded easement. It's
> not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and the case law has to
> be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that he has helped,
> he looked up historical aerial images (not on line but at the local soil
> and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 1927 or
> 1954. In these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a farm
> lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from
> the phot. Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to
> find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the
> current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that
> prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.
> >>
> >> Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do
> this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my
> description cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws
> and case law may be different in various states so check on that with
> someone who is qualified on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a
> limited right to practice law in land issues for cases like this. My
> brother always said that was the hardest part of his surveyors license to
> get through. He spent a lot of time studying and reviewing case law.
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >> Brian Webster
> >> www.wirelessmapping.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> >> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
> >> To: af@af.afmug.com
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
> >>
> >> I think those are called land locked or something similar. Unless and
> >> until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it would be
> >> worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.
> >>
> >>
> >> bp
> >> 
> >>
> >>> On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> >>> The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at all.  I'm
> >>> not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is selling it so
> >>> therefore they bought it at one time.
> >>>
> >>>
>  On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>  I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was
>  divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not
>  really "buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top.
>  They carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount
>  of ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to
>  the ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along the south side
>  of the ridge top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of
>  the 4 parcels, as the road easement ended up running along the
>  boundary between two adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think
>  we got the best deal, as we're at the end of the road easement, and
>  "none" of the road (or the easement) actually runs through or even
>  along the side our property. However, one of the properties has his 4
>  acres or so at the top of the ridge, and the remainder of his
>  property is on the other side of the easement. As a result, the two
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Steve Jones]

anybody looked into the squatter laws how those creeps are able to
occasionally take possession of properties and magically become the lawful
owners? seems that may be the least expensive way to obtain things

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:34 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> California has a similar law. The period is 5 years, and there are a
> series of points that need to be made. If the easement is considered
> valid then the court "may" issue a payment to the land owner over which
> the easement is granted.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 1/3/2021 7:54 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
> > Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement
> in situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of
> how he has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of
> describing it. MY understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been
> granted easement over a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10
> years but not sure) and there is evidence that it has been permitted (an
> old farm lane or access road is a good example) that has not been
> challenged by the property owner that you cannot use that access road. Then
> at least in NY that can be legally called a prescriptive easement, and as
> such you can actually file that and record it as a deeded easement. It's
> not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and the case law has to
> be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that he has helped,
> he looked up historical aerial images (not on line but at the local soil
> and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 1927 or
> 1954. In these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a farm
> lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from
> the phot. Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to
> find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the
> current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that
> prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.
> >
> > Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do
> this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my
> description cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws
> and case law may be different in various states so check on that with
> someone who is qualified on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a
> limited right to practice law in land issues for cases like this. My
> brother always said that was the hardest part of his surveyors license to
> get through. He spent a lot of time studying and reviewing case law.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Brian Webster
> > www.wirelessmapping.com
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> > Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
> >
> > I think those are called land locked or something similar. Unless and
> > until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it would be
> > worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.
> >
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> > On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> >> The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at all.  I'm
> >> not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is selling it so
> >> therefore they bought it at one time.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> >>> I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was
> >>> divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not
> >>> really "buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top.
> >>> They carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount
> >>> of ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to
> >>> the ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along the south side
> >>> of the ridge top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of
> >>> the 4 parcels, as the road easement ended up running along the
> >>> boundary between two adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think
> >>> we got the best deal, as we're at the end of the road easement, and
> >>> "none" of the road (or the easement) actually runs through or even
> >>> along the side our property. However, one of the properties has his 4
> >>> acres or so at the top of the ridge, and the remainder of his
> >>> property is on the other side of the easement. As a result, the two
> >>> of us at the end, drive through his property whenever we come or go.
> >>> No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy raw whenever we drive by, as
> >>> he sees us as "trespassers" because he thinks of that part of the
> >>> easement as his private property.
> >>>
> >>> When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to report us as
> >>> trespassing on his "private" property. Years of entertainment ensue.
> >>>
> >>> bp
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>> On 1/3/2021 12:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>  A 

Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...

[Robert]

The worse it tastes, the better it is for you?   No, life isn't that bad...

On 1/4/21 9:54 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


If you've ever tasted Kombucha, you would understand why they left it.

Of course, if you'd walked ~~ 50 yards further, you may have 
discovered their bodies where they fell and died after drinking Kombucha.



bp

On 1/4/2021 9:42 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:


I am getting tired of the "going out as little as possible" practice.

I usually retreat to the state forest, but lately the state forests 
are filled with humans.  I could fill a garbage bag every time I go 
out now because those filthy human bastards keep leaving junk in the 
woods.  The other day I found a stock pot and four bottles of 
Kombucha about 50 yards off a trail. I'm really confused about what 
they made, and more confused about why they left it.  I thought 
Kombucha was a hippie dippie health drink, but I also thought dippie 
hippies would know better than to leave their trash in the forest.  
They must have dragged that 5 gallon steel pot out there and then 
after drinking all their Kombucha stew or whatever they were just too 
darn wore out to carry it all the way back.


I want to go out to visit the people I like or to hide from everyone 
else.  I can't succeed at either one right now. Hence my search for land.




On 1/4/2021 12:20 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Things couldn’t get worse than 2020.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2021 9:54 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...

Gotta reserve “an abundance of caution “ for legal filings.

Sent from my iPhone



On Jan 1, 2021, at 8:13 AM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:



And based on where Steve is located, I assume he’s starting off
2021 with the second ice storm of the week.  I guess 2020 puts
things in perspective.  Years from now we’ll be boring our
grandkids with stories of 2020 the year from hell.

May people stop using words and phrases like:

- social distancing

- the new normal

- an abundance of caution

- unprecedented times

- doomscrolling

- covidiot

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Thursday, December 31, 2020 10:39 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...

Amen to that. Shitshow doesnt even begin to describe this stain
on the timeline.

But there was some good. I dont know what it was, but I'm gonna
assume there was some

On Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 7:46 PM Jeff Broadwick - Lists
mailto:jeffl...@att.net>> wrote:

Word!

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com 

> On Dec 31, 2020, at 8:40 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account)
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:
>
> 
> And hopefulness that 2021 will be an improvement over 2020.
>
> --
> - Forrest
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

[Steve Jones]

I wish they hadnt used water cannons on the civil rights protesters back in
the day and ruined it for us today

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 9:33 AM Dennis Burgess 
wrote:

> Use water cannons with die in them, then go around and arrest anyone with
> that color die on them  heheehe .  I think china did this. .
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
> *Dennis Burgess*
>
>
> * Mikrotik : Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless
> Engineer, Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, Security
> Engineer, Enterprise Wireless Engineer*
>
> *Hurricane Electric: **IPv6 Sage Level*
>
> *Cambium: **ePMP*
>
>
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
> *How did we do today?*
>
> [image: Gold Star]
> [image:
> Green Light]
> [image:
> Yellow Light]
> [image:
> Red Light]
> 
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2021 2:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland
>
>
>
> Portland, Seattle, etc and all the other leftist ilk are prime examples of
> the circle, hard time breed strong men, strong men breed good times, etc.
> The Pacific northwest was a rugged, harsh area to "tame". It took men of
> stature and stamina to build the oasis in the wilderness that the weak
> populated under the protection of the strong. Natural selection was
> defeated, and sadly that is the fault of the strong. Hopefully nature will
> correct itself and eventually the weak bloodlines will be culled from the
> herd. It's never been sustainable to maintain the presence of the weak. By
> weak I dont mean meek, they inherit the earth and are treasures, I mean
> weak, in spirit, strength and mind. They are the epitome of biting the hand
> that feeds you. Cancers like this are allowed to fester and this is the
> result, they believe they own the hand and are entitled to bite it.
>
> This is why we have cataclysmic comets. It's a sad natural truth though
> that the nature of the strong is to always uplift the weak. Its natures
> dirty trick. The weak dont want to be uplifted, they believe the
> outstretched hand is there to hold them, not to move them. Eventually the
> hand gets tired.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2021, 12:32 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Part of as-trophys-ics?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 11:57 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland
>
> What are trophy's?  I wonder how the apostrophe got in there.
> trophys  oh, I see.  Autocorrect did it.  I should typed trophies as the
> plural.
> I guess trophys is not a word.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 10:52 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland
>
> Today:
> "If you do not leave you are subject to arrest, citation, and/or the use of
> force, including but not limited to impact weapons and tear gas," Portland
> Police said.
>
> September 10:
> Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, who also serves as police commissioner, has
> released a video saying he has ordered police officers to stop using tear
> gas for crowd control.
>
> What changed?
> Did Ted Wheeler finally discover balls?
>
> I am from Oregon originally, I have a fondness for the Portland metro area.
> The TV show Portlandia really did nail it.
> But coddling spoiled anarchists - what society allows that?
>
> Public spankings.
> Were these kids not breast fed?
> Perhaps too many participation trophy's?
>
> In Portland you can toss fireworks and Molotov coctails at police and they
> issue a stern warning.
> Meanwhile in other parts of the country, you have a cell phone in your
> hand - you get shot by the cops.
>
> Maybe we need police exchange programs.
> Send the cops with itchy trigger fingers to do duty in Portland and
> Seattle.
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...

[Steve Jones]

thats a pretty bleak outlook of an inept biden administration the
cartoonist has, I cant see him doing that poorly

Going out in nature is pretty disheartening these days, hopefully the cold
weather will keep the litterbugs indoors and covid croaks them out. The
scumbags that litter in nature tend to be the holier than thou type too,
garbage can hypocrites driving hybrids and participating in marches while
they destroy everything they touch. My kids hated me in the woods making
them act like garbage men collecting rubbish. Now they pick up litter out
of spite

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 11:21 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Things couldn’t get worse than 2020.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2021 9:54 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...
>
>
>
> Gotta reserve “an abundance of caution “ for legal filings.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Jan 1, 2021, at 8:13 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 
>
> And based on where Steve is located, I assume he’s starting off 2021 with
> the second ice storm of the week.  I guess 2020 puts things in
> perspective.  Years from now we’ll be boring our grandkids with stories of
> 2020 the year from hell.
>
>
>
> May people stop using words and phrases like:
>
> - social distancing
>
> - the new normal
>
> - an abundance of caution
>
> - unprecedented times
>
> - doomscrolling
>
> - covidiot
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 31, 2020 10:39 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...
>
>
>
> Amen to that. Shitshow doesnt even begin to describe this stain on the
> timeline.
>
> But there was some good. I dont know what it was, but I'm gonna assume
> there was some
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 7:46 PM Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
> wrote:
>
> Word!
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
> > On Dec 31, 2020, at 8:40 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > And hopefulness that 2021 will be an improvement over 2020.
> >
> > --
> > - Forrest
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...

[Ken Hohhof]

   Maybe the dippie hippies were raptured, or beamed up by the alien lizard 
people.  Darn reptilians, if they're gonna abduct people, they should abduct 
their trash too.

 But yeah, the Unabomber lifestyle does start to make sense (except for the 
bomber part).  You start to realize that while you may strive to love your 
fellow man, you really don't want to spend time with most of them.  Or if you 
watch an episode of Cheers or Friends, you realize that other than your close 
friends, most of the people at your bar or coffee shop are jerks.

 
  Original Message 
 From: "Adam Moffett" dmmoff...@gmail.com
 Sent: 1/4/2021 11:43:15 AM
 To: af@af.afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...

  

I am getting tired of the "going out as little as possible" practice. 

I usually retreat to the state forest, but lately the state forests are filled 
with humans.  I could fill a garbage bag every time I go out now because those 
filthy human bastards keep leaving junk in the woods.  The other day I found a 
stock pot and four bottles of Kombucha about 50 yards off a trail.  I'm really 
confused about what they made, and more confused about why they left it.  I 
thought Kombucha was a hippie dippie health drink, but I also thought dippie 
hippies would know better than to leave their trash in the forest.  They must 
have dragged that 5 gallon steel pot out there and then after drinking all 
their Kombucha stew or whatever they were just too darn wore out to carry it 
all the way back. 

I want to go out to visit the people I like or to hide from everyone else.  I 
can't succeed at either one right now.  Hence my search for land. 





On 1/4/2021 12:20 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:   meta name="Generator" 
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Things couldnt get worse than 2020. 





From: AF af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
 Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 9:54 AM
 To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group af@af.afmug.com
 Cc: Chuck McCown ch...@go-mtc.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...   

Gotta reserve an abundance of caution  for legal filings. 



Sent from my iPhone  




   

On Jan 1, 2021, at 8:13 AM, Ken Hohhof af...@kwisp.com wrote:



? 

And based on where Steve is located, I assume hes starting off 2021 with the 
second ice storm of the week.  I guess 2020 puts things in perspective.  Years 
from now well be boring our grandkids with stories of 2020 the year from hell. 



May people stop using words and phrases like: 

- social distancing 

- the new normal 

- an abundance of caution 

- unprecedented times 

- doomscrolling 

- covidiot 





From: AF af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Steve Jones
 Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 10:39 PM
 To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group af@af.afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...  





Amen to that. Shitshow doesnt even begin to describe this stain on the 
timeline. 



But there was some good. I dont know what it was, but I'm gonna assume there 
was some   





On Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 7:46 PM Jeff Broadwick - Lists jeffl...@att.net wrote:  

Word!

 Jeff Broadwick
 CTIconnect
 312-205-2519 Office
 574-220-7826 Cell
 jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

  On Dec 31, 2020, at 8:40 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
li...@packetflux.com wrote:

  ?
  And hopefulness that 2021 will be an improvement over 2020.

  -- 
  - Forrest
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

 -- 
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 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...

[Bill Prince]

  
  
If you've ever tasted Kombucha, you would understand why they
  left it. 

Of course, if you'd walked ~~ 50 yards further, you may have
  discovered their bodies where they fell and died after drinking
  Kombucha.


bp

On 1/4/2021 9:42 AM, Adam Moffett
  wrote:


  
  I am getting tired of the "going out as little as possible"
practice.
  I usually retreat to the state forest, but lately the state
forests are filled with humans.  I could fill a garbage bag
every time I go out now because those filthy human bastards keep
leaving junk in the woods.  The other day I found a stock pot
and four bottles of Kombucha about 50 yards off a trail.  I'm
really confused about what they made, and more confused about
why they left it.  I thought Kombucha was a hippie dippie health
drink, but I also thought dippie hippies would know better than
to leave their trash in the forest.  They must have dragged that
5 gallon steel pot out there and then after drinking all their
Kombucha stew or whatever they were just too darn wore out to
carry it all the way back.
  I want to go out to visit the people I like or to hide from
everyone else.  I can't succeed at either one right now.  Hence
my search for land.
  
  
  
  
  On 1/4/2021 12:20 PM, Ken Hohhof
wrote:
  
  




  Things couldn’t get worse than 2020.
   
  

  From: AF 
On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 9:54 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good
riddance...

  
   
  Gotta
reserve “an abundance of caution “ for legal filings.
  
Sent from my iPhone
  
  

  
  

  On Jan
1, 2021, at 8:13 AM, Ken Hohhof 
wrote:

  
  

  
  And based on where Steve is located,
I assume he’s starting off 2021 with the second ice
storm of the week.  I guess 2020 puts things in
perspective.  Years from now we’ll be boring our
grandkids with stories of 2020 the year from hell.
   
  May people stop using words and
phrases like:
  - social distancing
  - the new normal
  - an abundance of caution
  - unprecedented times
  - doomscrolling
  - covidiot
   
  
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 10:39 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good
  riddance...
  
   
  
Amen to that. Shitshow doesnt even
  begin to describe this stain on the timeline.

  But there was some good. I dont
know what it was, but I'm gonna assume there was
some

  
   
  
On Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 7:46 PM Jeff
  Broadwick - Lists 
  wrote:
  
  Word!

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

> On Dec 31, 2020, at 8:40 PM, Forrest Christian
(List Account) 
wrote:
> 
> 
> And hopefulness that 2021 will be an improvement
over 2020.
> 
> -- 
> - Forrest
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 


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Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...

[Adam Moffett]

I am getting tired of the "going out as little as possible" practice.

I usually retreat to the state forest, but lately the state forests are 
filled with humans.  I could fill a garbage bag every time I go out now 
because those filthy human bastards keep leaving junk in the woods.  The 
other day I found a stock pot and four bottles of Kombucha about 50 
yards off a trail.  I'm really confused about what they made, and more 
confused about why they left it.  I thought Kombucha was a hippie dippie 
health drink, but I also thought dippie hippies would know better than 
to leave their trash in the forest.  They must have dragged that 5 
gallon steel pot out there and then after drinking all their Kombucha 
stew or whatever they were just too darn wore out to carry it all the 
way back.


I want to go out to visit the people I like or to hide from everyone 
else.  I can't succeed at either one right now.  Hence my search for land.




On 1/4/2021 12:20 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Things couldn’t get worse than 2020.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2021 9:54 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...

Gotta reserve “an abundance of caution “ for legal filings.

Sent from my iPhone



On Jan 1, 2021, at 8:13 AM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:



And based on where Steve is located, I assume he’s starting off
2021 with the second ice storm of the week.  I guess 2020 puts
things in perspective.  Years from now we’ll be boring our
grandkids with stories of 2020 the year from hell.

May people stop using words and phrases like:

- social distancing

- the new normal

- an abundance of caution

- unprecedented times

- doomscrolling

- covidiot

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Thursday, December 31, 2020 10:39 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...

Amen to that. Shitshow doesnt even begin to describe this stain on
the timeline.

But there was some good. I dont know what it was, but I'm gonna
assume there was some

On Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 7:46 PM Jeff Broadwick - Lists
mailto:jeffl...@att.net>> wrote:

Word!

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com 

> On Dec 31, 2020, at 8:40 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account)
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:
>
> 
> And hopefulness that 2021 will be an improvement over 2020.
>
> --
> - Forrest
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Bill Prince]

California has a similar law. The period is 5 years, and there are a 
series of points that need to be made. If the easement is considered 
valid then the court "may" issue a payment to the land owner over which 
the easement is granted.



bp


On 1/3/2021 7:54 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement in 
situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of how he 
has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of describing it. MY 
understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been granted easement over 
a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and there 
is evidence that it has been permitted (an old farm lane or access road is a 
good example) that has not been challenged by the property owner that you 
cannot use that access road. Then at least in NY that can be legally called a 
prescriptive easement, and as such you can actually file that and record it as 
a deeded easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and 
the case law has to be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that 
he has helped, he looked up historical aerial images (not on line but at the 
local soil and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 
1927 or 1954. In these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a 
farm lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from 
the phot. Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to 
find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the 
current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that 
prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.

Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do this 
with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my description 
cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws and case law may 
be different in various states so check on that with someone who is qualified 
on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a limited right to practice law in 
land issues for cases like this. My brother always said that was the hardest 
part of his surveyors license to get through. He spent a lot of time studying 
and reviewing case law.

Thank you,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com


-Original Message-
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

I think those are called land locked or something similar. Unless and
until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it would be
worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.


bp


On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at all.  I'm
not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is selling it so
therefore they bought it at one time.


On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was
divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not
really "buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top.
They carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount
of ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to
the ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along the south side
of the ridge top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of
the 4 parcels, as the road easement ended up running along the
boundary between two adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think
we got the best deal, as we're at the end of the road easement, and
"none" of the road (or the easement) actually runs through or even
along the side our property. However, one of the properties has his 4
acres or so at the top of the ridge, and the remainder of his
property is on the other side of the easement. As a result, the two
of us at the end, drive through his property whenever we come or go.
No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy raw whenever we drive by, as
he sees us as "trespassers" because he thinks of that part of the
easement as his private property.

When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to report us as
trespassing on his "private" property. Years of entertainment ensue.

bp


On 1/3/2021 12:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the
gotchas.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a
parcel map and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue.
If you can't do that, get a title insurance policy that insures you
against any future boundary disputes. if there is a time limit in
the insurance policy, make sure you understand the implications
and/or negotiate for a longer time.


bp



On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I'm poking around 

Re: [AFMUG] OT : Power company

[Dennis Burgess]

They don't here in MO.  If you sent me 150 volts insead of 120 and blew stuff, 
I would file a claim..  



Dennis Burgess

Mikrotik : Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless Engineer, 
Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, Security Engineer, 
Enterprise Wireless Engineer
Hurricane Electric: IPv6 Sage Level
Cambium: ePMP 

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 
How did we do today?


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 5:03 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT : Power company

How is it that power companies have immunity from damage?

It’s like a Shaggy song. 
Send a surge that blows appliances? Wasn’t me. 
Send 60 volts for 5 minutes that kills stuff? Wasn’t me. 
Food all goes bad because we killed your freezer? Wasn’t me. 

I’m not talking about a full on outage. That happens. But how do power 
companies get away with immunity from provided improper service that blows 
stuff?


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Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

[Dennis Burgess]

Use water cannons with die in them, then go around and arrest anyone with that 
color die on them  heheehe .  I think china did this. .


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess

Mikrotik : Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless Engineer, 
Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, Security Engineer, 
Enterprise Wireless Engineer
Hurricane Electric: IPv6 Sage Level
Cambium: ePMP

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
How did we do today?
[Gold 
Star][Green
 
Light][Yellow
 
Light][Red
 
Light]

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 2:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

Portland, Seattle, etc and all the other leftist ilk are prime examples of the 
circle, hard time breed strong men, strong men breed good times, etc. The 
Pacific northwest was a rugged, harsh area to "tame". It took men of stature 
and stamina to build the oasis in the wilderness that the weak populated under 
the protection of the strong. Natural selection was defeated, and sadly that is 
the fault of the strong. Hopefully nature will correct itself and eventually 
the weak bloodlines will be culled from the herd. It's never been sustainable 
to maintain the presence of the weak. By weak I dont mean meek, they inherit 
the earth and are treasures, I mean weak, in spirit, strength and mind. They 
are the epitome of biting the hand that feeds you. Cancers like this are 
allowed to fester and this is the result, they believe they own the hand and 
are entitled to bite it.
This is why we have cataclysmic comets. It's a sad natural truth though that 
the nature of the strong is to always uplift the weak. Its natures dirty trick. 
The weak dont want to be uplifted, they believe the outstretched hand is there 
to hold them, not to move them. Eventually the hand gets tired.

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021, 12:32 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Part of as-trophys-ics?

-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 11:57 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

What are trophy's?  I wonder how the apostrophe got in there.
trophys  oh, I see.  Autocorrect did it.  I should typed trophies as the
plural.
I guess trophys is not a word.


-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 10:52 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT political - Portland

Today:
"If you do not leave you are subject to arrest, citation, and/or the use of
force, including but not limited to impact weapons and tear gas," Portland
Police said.

September 10:
Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, who also serves as police commissioner, has
released a video saying he has ordered police officers to stop using tear
gas for crowd control.

What changed?
Did Ted Wheeler finally discover balls?

I am from Oregon originally, I have a fondness for the Portland metro area.
The TV show Portlandia really did nail it.
But coddling spoiled anarchists - what society allows that?

Public spankings.
Were these kids not breast fed?
Perhaps too many participation trophy's?

In Portland you can toss fireworks and Molotov coctails at police and they
issue a stern warning.
Meanwhile in other parts of the country, you have a cell phone in your
hand - you get shot by the cops.

Maybe we need police exchange programs.
Send the cops with itchy trigger fingers to do duty in Portland and Seattle.


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Open and notorious 
Hostile
In Utah you even have to have been paying the taxes.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2021, at 6:46 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> I've only read about adverse possession, but I think the other party has to 
> have been aware of your use of the land and not done anything to stop you for 
> a number of years.
> 
>> On 1/4/2021 7:25 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> If it has been open to the public then it is prescriptive.  If just used be 
>> a private person other than the owner it can be a case of adverse possession 
>> or acquiescence.  Both a form of squatter’s rights.  Adverse possession is a 
>> very hard case to make.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Jan 3, 2021, at 8:54 PM, Brian Webster  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement in 
>>> situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of how 
>>> he has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of describing 
>>> it. MY understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been granted 
>>> easement over a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10 years but 
>>> not sure) and there is evidence that it has been permitted (an old farm 
>>> lane or access road is a good example) that has not been challenged by the 
>>> property owner that you cannot use that access road. Then at least in NY 
>>> that can be legally called a prescriptive easement, and as such you can 
>>> actually file that and record it as a deeded easement. It's not an easy 
>>> process and there is a lot of posturing and the case law has to be argued 
>>> in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that he has helped, he looked 
>>> up historical aerial images (not on line but at the local soil and water 
>>> conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 1927 or 1954. In 
>>> these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a farm lane or 
>>> access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from the phot. 
>>> Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to find 
>>> hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the 
>>> current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that 
>>> prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.
>>> 
>>> Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do 
>>> this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my 
>>> description cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws 
>>> and case law may be different in various states so check on that with 
>>> someone who is qualified on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a 
>>> limited right to practice law in land issues for cases like this. My 
>>> brother always said that was the hardest part of his surveyors license to 
>>> get through. He spent a lot of time studying and reviewing case law.
>>> 
>>> Thank you,
>>> Brian Webster
>>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
>>> 
>>> I think those are called land locked or something similar. Unless and
>>> until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it would be
>>> worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> bp
>>> 
>>> 
 On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at all.  I'm
 not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is selling it so
 therefore they bought it at one time.
 
 
> On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was
> divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not
> really "buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top.
> They carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount
> of ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to
> the ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along the south side
> of the ridge top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of
> the 4 parcels, as the road easement ended up running along the
> boundary between two adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think
> we got the best deal, as we're at the end of the road easement, and
> "none" of the road (or the easement) actually runs through or even
> along the side our property. However, one of the properties has his 4
> acres or so at the top of the ridge, and the remainder of his
> property is on the other side of the easement. As a result, the two
> of us at the end, drive through his property whenever we come or go.
> No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy raw whenever we drive by, as
> he sees us as "trespassers" because he thinks of that part of the
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Adam Moffett]

I've only read about adverse possession, but I think the other party has 
to have been aware of your use of the land and not done anything to stop 
you for a number of years.


On 1/4/2021 7:25 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

If it has been open to the public then it is prescriptive.  If just used be a 
private person other than the owner it can be a case of adverse possession or 
acquiescence.  Both a form of squatter’s rights.  Adverse possession is a very 
hard case to make.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 3, 2021, at 8:54 PM, Brian Webster  wrote:

Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement in 
situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of how he 
has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of describing it. MY 
understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been granted easement over 
a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and there 
is evidence that it has been permitted (an old farm lane or access road is a 
good example) that has not been challenged by the property owner that you 
cannot use that access road. Then at least in NY that can be legally called a 
prescriptive easement, and as such you can actually file that and record it as 
a deeded easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and 
the case law has to be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that 
he has helped, he looked up historical aerial images (not on line but at the 
local soil and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 
1927 or 1954. In these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a 
farm lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from 
the phot. Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to 
find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the 
current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that 
prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.

Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do this 
with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my description 
cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws and case law may 
be different in various states so check on that with someone who is qualified 
on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a limited right to practice law in 
land issues for cases like this. My brother always said that was the hardest 
part of his surveyors license to get through. He spent a lot of time studying 
and reviewing case law.

Thank you,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com


-Original Message-
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

I think those are called land locked or something similar. Unless and
until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it would be
worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.


bp



On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at all.  I'm
not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is selling it so
therefore they bought it at one time.



On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was
divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not
really "buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top.
They carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount
of ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to
the ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along the south side
of the ridge top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of
the 4 parcels, as the road easement ended up running along the
boundary between two adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think
we got the best deal, as we're at the end of the road easement, and
"none" of the road (or the easement) actually runs through or even
along the side our property. However, one of the properties has his 4
acres or so at the top of the ridge, and the remainder of his
property is on the other side of the easement. As a result, the two
of us at the end, drive through his property whenever we come or go.
No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy raw whenever we drive by, as
he sees us as "trespassers" because he thinks of that part of the
easement as his private property.

When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to report us as
trespassing on his "private" property. Years of entertainment ensue.

bp


On 1/3/2021 12:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the
gotchas.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a
parcel map and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue.
If you can't do that, get a title 

[AFMUG] OT FS: Calix GigaSpire + GigaMesh

[Gino A. Villarini]

New In Box

Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
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Guaynabo, PR 00968
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Chuck McCown via AF]

If it has been open to the public then it is prescriptive.  If just used be a 
private person other than the owner it can be a case of adverse possession or 
acquiescence.  Both a form of squatter’s rights.  Adverse possession is a very 
hard case to make.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2021, at 8:54 PM, Brian Webster  wrote:
> 
> Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement in 
> situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of how he 
> has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of describing it. 
> MY understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been granted easement 
> over a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10 years but not sure) 
> and there is evidence that it has been permitted (an old farm lane or access 
> road is a good example) that has not been challenged by the property owner 
> that you cannot use that access road. Then at least in NY that can be legally 
> called a prescriptive easement, and as such you can actually file that and 
> record it as a deeded easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot 
> of posturing and the case law has to be argued in court in a lot of cases. So 
> in some cases that he has helped, he looked up historical aerial images (not 
> on line but at the local soil and water conservation district) and found 
> stuff dating back to say 1927 or 1954. In these cases there was a lot less 
> forest and he could see a farm lane or access road that was used. Enough use 
> that it's very evident from the phot. Then with this information, he will go 
> out on the land and try to find hints of that road or access lane. If he 
> finds that road, even in the current forested area, he helped the landlocked 
> property owner gain that prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded 
> easement.
> 
> Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do this 
> with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my description 
> cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws and case law may 
> be different in various states so check on that with someone who is qualified 
> on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a limited right to practice law 
> in land issues for cases like this. My brother always said that was the 
> hardest part of his surveyors license to get through. He spent a lot of time 
> studying and reviewing case law.
> 
> Thank you,
> Brian Webster
> www.wirelessmapping.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
> 
> I think those are called land locked or something similar. Unless and 
> until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it would be 
> worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
>> On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at all.  I'm 
>> not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is selling it so 
>> therefore they bought it at one time.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>> I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was 
>>> divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not 
>>> really "buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top. 
>>> They carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount 
>>> of ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to 
>>> the ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along the south side 
>>> of the ridge top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of 
>>> the 4 parcels, as the road easement ended up running along the 
>>> boundary between two adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think 
>>> we got the best deal, as we're at the end of the road easement, and 
>>> "none" of the road (or the easement) actually runs through or even 
>>> along the side our property. However, one of the properties has his 4 
>>> acres or so at the top of the ridge, and the remainder of his 
>>> property is on the other side of the easement. As a result, the two 
>>> of us at the end, drive through his property whenever we come or go. 
>>> No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy raw whenever we drive by, as 
>>> he sees us as "trespassers" because he thinks of that part of the 
>>> easement as his private property.
>>> 
>>> When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to report us as 
>>> trespassing on his "private" property. Years of entertainment ensue.
>>> 
>>> bp
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 1/3/2021 12:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
 A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the 
 gotchas.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a 
> parcel map and any benchmarks.