Re: [AFMUG] Planet Switch Packet Loss

[Jason McKemie]

So, in summary, it is probably the CCR or a combination of the CCR and the
planet? Am I going to have to go with x86 to get something powerful with
multiple SFPs that is stable?

On Sunday, April 5, 2015, cjwstudios  wrote:

> I have the exact same setup and problem except with planet sfps on the
> planet side and tik sfps on the Ccr side.  Planet told me it was my fiber
> run so I bought a new $500 certified run which did not fix the problem.
> Rebooting the Ccr 15-20 times usually does.
> On Mar 30, 2015 9:26 PM, "Jason McKemie"  > wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to link up a Planet industrial ethernet switch (IGS-10020MT)
>> with a CCR via SFP ports and bidi optics.  I'm getting packet loss (~5%)
>> and the receive errors are incrementing steadily on the switch.  Any ideas
>> what I can check here?  Do these not work well with generic bidi optics?
>>
>> -Jason
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 12 Port SyncInjiector

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Actually there are two different devices in work.  The 12 port
syncinjectors is mechanically two four port injector side by side so it's
the same width but thicker, but with a total of 12 ports.  Approximately 6"
wide, 3" thick, and 4" deep.   The circuit design is done, we're just
dealing with enclosure design issues related to a combination of the larger
enclosure and having two circuit boards.  Hopefully 30 days.

The second one is a rackmount modular injector.  It's going to be fall when
that one is released assuming no major unexpected issues.
 I wasn't at AF so I didn't get to see the prototype, but I talked to him
in STL about it. It sounds like it'll be something we'll want to put at
most sites. Swappable modules for different PoE types with built-in DC-DC
converters that'll take in whatever you have, +24, +48, -48, etc. Kinda
like a CTM box but modular.

On 4/5/2015 3:18 PM, Paul McCall wrote:

 That is a good option.



I was referring to the device that Forrest showed a “prototype” of at
Animal Farm a couple months ago



*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On Behalf
Of *Craig House
*Sent:* Sunday, April 05, 2015 1:56 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 12 Port SyncInjiector



Paul  We started using the syncbox 12 for sync on timing.  It seems to be a
great option if you dont mind running the timing cables as well as cat5



Craig




 --

*From: *"Paul McCall" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Sunday, April 5, 2015 12:35:14 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] 12 Port SyncInjiector



Forrest,



Is this is a product yet?



Paul



Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800 office

772-473-0352 cell

www.pdmnet.com

pa...@pdmnet.net

Re: [AFMUG] Planet Switch Packet Loss

[cjwstudios]

I have the exact same setup and problem except with planet sfps on the
planet side and tik sfps on the Ccr side.  Planet told me it was my fiber
run so I bought a new $500 certified run which did not fix the problem.
Rebooting the Ccr 15-20 times usually does.
On Mar 30, 2015 9:26 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
wrote:

> I'm trying to link up a Planet industrial ethernet switch (IGS-10020MT)
> with a CCR via SFP ports and bidi optics.  I'm getting packet loss (~5%)
> and the receive errors are incrementing steadily on the switch.  Any ideas
> what I can check here?  Do these not work well with generic bidi optics?
>
> -Jason
>

Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS

[Glen Waldrop]

I haven't thought of elementary school in a long time... lol


  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2015 3:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS


  I know you are, but what am I?
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOGWbzUM-y8

  From: Glen Waldrop 
  Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2015 2:19 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS

  He's going to be making friends all over with stuff like this...


  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:31] the wireless industry seems to 
be rammed full of overly entitled douches



- Original Message - 
From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2015 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS

I like this observium guy

On Apr 4, 2015 5:53 PM, "Jon Auer"  wrote:

  Until I see evidence to the contrary (just did a svn up and no wisp gear 
has been removed...) I'm treating that entire exchange as the internet 
equivalent of some drunk (Smeg) walking up to you(Adam) in the bar and grabbing 
your arm and saying have your wife dance with me. You're like, that's her 
choice and she says no. Repeating as the night goes on. Eventually maybe you 
snap, say some unkind things because you want the drunk to get lost and he just 
isn't taking the hint. 

  That wasn't the first IRC exchange between them and others. Adam's 
volatility is well known but in this case I believe he was sorely provoked.
  We've all experienced the client from hell. Thing is, maybe some of us 
are the client from hell.

  What happened in IRC after may help understand where he is coming from...
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:18:33] While I completely 
understand that you're the author and shit, and what you say goes. period... 
wasn't that a bit of an overreaction?
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:18:56] BenA: you have no fucking 
idea
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:19:05] I don't, it's true.
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:06] these people will not take 
no for an answer
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:07] they go on
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:08] and on
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:09] and on
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:10] and on
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:19:20] Couldn't you just, like, 
look away from the screen?
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:23] BUT MUH SUPPORT, MILLIONS 
OF USERS, PLZ
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:32] couldn't you?
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:19:38] Ask him if he wants to pay.  
if he doesn't, ignore?
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:46] oh, they all say they want 
to pay
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:19:49] Ah.
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:10] but when they realise it 
costs more than $5...
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:20:15] Right.
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:31] the wireless industry 
seems to be rammed full of overly entitled douches
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:48] whot hink it's totally 
justified that we support evey bit of shitty kit they have
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:51] fucking wireless vendors
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:00] every new MODEL they 
release has to come with an entirely new set of mibs
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:04] it's ridiculous
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:21:11] You're a victim of your own 
success.
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:23] and none of these people 
will ever listen when you tell them
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:32] adn they just keep coming 
back and coming back
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:35] he's asked here a few times
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:40] and we've had these 
conversations on the mailing list
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:44] and god knows what else
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:02] and you'd think
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:03] when someone says
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:07] "fuck off, it's not going 
to happen"
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:13] you'd realise that was, 
well, that
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:22:53] I guess he really sees the 
advantages of Observium, and is keen for you to have further market 
penetration... over your express wishes (-:
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:06] no, he's keen to have his 
own pet hardware supported
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:23:12] That too.
  [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:21] we already support 4 
different families of cambium kit
  [2015

Re: [AFMUG] Vivint CPE

[Gino Villarini]

Thanks for the pic



Gino A. Villarini
President
[cid:5FE7979A-9492-413E-82A4-74CEC3D5E12B]

From: Jaime Solorza 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Friday, April 3, 2015 at 6:34 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: [AFMUG] Vivint CPE


Here you Gino...mars antenna

Jaime Solorza

Re: [AFMUG] Vivint CPE

[Rory Conaway]

Yea, but if this is a normal install for them, they need to go back to the 
drawing board and fire whoever is architecting this.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 4:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vivint CPE

Don't forget, they are invested in Quantenna like Mimosa did, so they are using 
the Quantenna Chipset too.

Regards,
Chuck

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 6:57 PM, Jaime Solorza 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
This is one is on my sons roof on west side of town,   He told them to come get 
their gear off roof and take their router.   Very fast when it works bit drops 
and buffers allot especially with movies.  They have replaced gear several 
times and still same issue.   Tower is close to a mile from HubhouseHe had 
a free month trial and third week with issues...

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 4:48 PM, Rory Conaway 
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
This is one very expensive client setup.  Is this a beta test or what they are 
planning everywhere?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 3:42 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Vivint CPE

You can see the Hubhouse two streets down in between connectors

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Jaime Solorza 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Here you Gino...mars antenna

Jaime Solorza

Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS

[Ken Hohhof]

I know you are, but what am I?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOGWbzUM-y8

From: Glen Waldrop 
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2015 2:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS

He's going to be making friends all over with stuff like this...


[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:31] the wireless industry seems to 
be rammed full of overly entitled douches



  - Original Message - 
  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2015 1:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS

  I like this observium guy

  On Apr 4, 2015 5:53 PM, "Jon Auer"  wrote:

Until I see evidence to the contrary (just did a svn up and no wisp gear 
has been removed...) I'm treating that entire exchange as the internet 
equivalent of some drunk (Smeg) walking up to you(Adam) in the bar and grabbing 
your arm and saying have your wife dance with me. You're like, that's her 
choice and she says no. Repeating as the night goes on. Eventually maybe you 
snap, say some unkind things because you want the drunk to get lost and he just 
isn't taking the hint. 

That wasn't the first IRC exchange between them and others. Adam's 
volatility is well known but in this case I believe he was sorely provoked.
We've all experienced the client from hell. Thing is, maybe some of us are 
the client from hell.

What happened in IRC after may help understand where he is coming from...
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:18:33] While I completely understand 
that you're the author and shit, and what you say goes. period... wasn't that a 
bit of an overreaction?
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:18:56] BenA: you have no fucking 
idea
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:19:05] I don't, it's true.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:06] these people will not take 
no for an answer
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:07] they go on
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:08] and on
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:09] and on
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:10] and on
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:19:20] Couldn't you just, like, look 
away from the screen?
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:23] BUT MUH SUPPORT, MILLIONS OF 
USERS, PLZ
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:32] couldn't you?
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:19:38] Ask him if he wants to pay.  
if he doesn't, ignore?
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:46] oh, they all say they want 
to pay
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:19:49] Ah.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:10] but when they realise it 
costs more than $5...
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:20:15] Right.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:31] the wireless industry seems 
to be rammed full of overly entitled douches
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:48] whot hink it's totally 
justified that we support evey bit of shitty kit they have
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:51] fucking wireless vendors
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:00] every new MODEL they release 
has to come with an entirely new set of mibs
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:04] it's ridiculous
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:21:11] You're a victim of your own 
success.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:23] and none of these people 
will ever listen when you tell them
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:32] adn they just keep coming 
back and coming back
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:35] he's asked here a few times
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:40] and we've had these 
conversations on the mailing list
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:44] and god knows what else
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:02] and you'd think
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:03] when someone says
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:07] "fuck off, it's not going to 
happen"
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:13] you'd realise that was, 
well, that
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:22:53] I guess he really sees the 
advantages of Observium, and is keen for you to have further market 
penetration... over your express wishes (-:
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:06] no, he's keen to have his 
own pet hardware supported
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:23:12] That too.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:21] we already support 4 
different families of cambium kit
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:28] but apparently that doesn't 
include the devices he has
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:44] and i'm sure if i checked, 
we'd only have like 2-3 users using cambium kit
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:24:52] You could spend a few dozen 
man months of eye-straining, back-breaking labour adding in s

Re: [AFMUG] 12 Port SyncInjiector

[George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting)]

I wasn't at AF so I didn't get to see the prototype, but I talked to him 
in STL about it. It sounds like it'll be something we'll want to put at 
most sites. Swappable modules for different PoE types with built-in 
DC-DC converters that'll take in whatever you have, +24, +48, -48, etc. 
Kinda like a CTM box but modular.


On 4/5/2015 3:18 PM, Paul McCall wrote:


That is a good option.

I was referring to the device that Forrest showed a “prototype” of at 
Animal Farm a couple months ago


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Craig House
*Sent:* Sunday, April 05, 2015 1:56 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 12 Port SyncInjiector

Paul  We started using the syncbox 12 for sync on timing.  It seems to 
be a great option if you dont mind running the timing cables as well 
as cat5


Craig



*From: *"Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Sunday, April 5, 2015 12:35:14 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] 12 Port SyncInjiector

Forrest,

Is this is a product yet?

Paul

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800 office

772-473-0352 cell

www.pdmnet.com 

pa...@pdmnet.net 

Re: [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam

[Rory Conaway]

We have Symantec Security For Microsoft Exchange with BrightMail anti-spam.  
Seems to work great and rarely do I ever check it.  Never had a problem.

rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Daniel White
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2015 1:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam

Yes for the server

Daniel White
(303) 746-3590

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2015 1:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam

Are you talking about for the server?  Then Norton is the best option.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Daniel White
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2015 12:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam

Looking at two solutions... Bitdefender or ESET.  Any feedback?  Another 
platform that should be considered?

Feedback welcome, so long as it isn't ditch exchange :-D

Daniel White
(303) 746-3590

Re: [AFMUG] 12 Port SyncInjiector

[Paul McCall]

That is a good option.

I was referring to the device that Forrest showed a “prototype” of at Animal 
Farm a couple months ago

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Craig House
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2015 1:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 12 Port SyncInjiector

Paul  We started using the syncbox 12 for sync on timing.  It seems to be a 
great option if you dont mind running the timing cables as well as cat5

Craig



From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2015 12:35:14 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] 12 Port SyncInjiector

Forrest,

Is this is a product yet?

Paul

Paul McCall, Pres.
PDMNet / Florida Broadband
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800 office
772-473-0352 cell
www.pdmnet.com
pa...@pdmnet.net

Re: [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam

[Jaime Solorza]

Lightspeed appliance after router. Set rules and relax...best thing we did
at district..replaced Sonicwalls after a year cause it was that good.

Jaime Solorza
On Apr 5, 2015 2:04 PM, "Daniel White"  wrote:

> Yes for the server
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> (303) 746-3590
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 5, 2015 1:45 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam
>
>
>
> Are you talking about for the server?  Then Norton is the best option.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Daniel White
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 5, 2015 12:23 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam
>
>
>
> Looking at two solutions… Bitdefender or ESET.  Any feedback?  Another
> platform that should be considered?
>
>
>
> Feedback welcome, so long as it isn’t ditch exchange :-D
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> (303) 746-3590
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam

[Daniel White]

Yes for the server

 

Daniel White

(303) 746-3590

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2015 1:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam

 

Are you talking about for the server?  Then Norton is the best option.

 

Rory

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Daniel White
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2015 12:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam

 

Looking at two solutions. Bitdefender or ESET.  Any feedback?  Another
platform that should be considered?

 

Feedback welcome, so long as it isn't ditch exchange :-D

 

Daniel White

(303) 746-3590

 

Re: [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam

[Paul Stewart]

I always liked Norton personally but it’s really gotten bloated over the 
years…. At my dayjob we started deploying ESET recently on desktops and the 
feedback has been very positive.

 

Paul

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2015 3:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam

 

Seriously?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Apr 5, 2015 3:44 PM, "Rory Conaway" mailto:r...@triadwireless.net> > wrote:

Are you talking about for the server?  Then Norton is the best option.

 

Rory

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On Behalf 
Of Daniel White
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2015 12:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam

 

Looking at two solutions… Bitdefender or ESET.  Any feedback?  Another platform 
that should be considered?

 

Feedback welcome, so long as it isn’t ditch exchange :-D

 

Daniel White

(303) 746-3590  

 

Re: [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam

[Josh Luthman]

Seriously?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Apr 5, 2015 3:44 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

>  Are you talking about for the server?  Then Norton is the best option.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Daniel White
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 5, 2015 12:23 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam
>
>
>
> Looking at two solutions… Bitdefender or ESET.  Any feedback?  Another
> platform that should be considered?
>
>
>
> Feedback welcome, so long as it isn’t ditch exchange :-D
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> (303) 746-3590
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam

[Rory Conaway]

Are you talking about for the server?  Then Norton is the best option.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Daniel White
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2015 12:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam

Looking at two solutions... Bitdefender or ESET.  Any feedback?  Another 
platform that should be considered?

Feedback welcome, so long as it isn't ditch exchange :-D

Daniel White
(303) 746-3590

[AFMUG] Exchange Antivirus/Antispam

[Daniel White]

Looking at two solutions. Bitdefender or ESET.  Any feedback?  Another
platform that should be considered?

 

Feedback welcome, so long as it isn't ditch exchange :-D

 

Daniel White

(303) 746-3590

 

Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS

[Glen Waldrop]

He's going to be making friends all over with stuff like this...


[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:31] the wireless industry seems to 
be rammed full of overly entitled douches



  - Original Message - 
  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2015 1:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS


  I like this observium guy

  On Apr 4, 2015 5:53 PM, "Jon Auer"  wrote:

Until I see evidence to the contrary (just did a svn up and no wisp gear 
has been removed...) I'm treating that entire exchange as the internet 
equivalent of some drunk (Smeg) walking up to you(Adam) in the bar and grabbing 
your arm and saying have your wife dance with me. You're like, that's her 
choice and she says no. Repeating as the night goes on. Eventually maybe you 
snap, say some unkind things because you want the drunk to get lost and he just 
isn't taking the hint.


That wasn't the first IRC exchange between them and others. Adam's 
volatility is well known but in this case I believe he was sorely provoked.
We've all experienced the client from hell. Thing is, maybe some of us are 
the client from hell.


What happened in IRC after may help understand where he is coming from...
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:18:33] While I completely understand 
that you're the author and shit, and what you say goes. period... wasn't that a 
bit of an overreaction?
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:18:56] BenA: you have no fucking 
idea
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:19:05] I don't, it's true.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:06] these people will not take 
no for an answer
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:07] they go on
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:08] and on
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:09] and on
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:10] and on
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:19:20] Couldn't you just, like, look 
away from the screen?
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:23] BUT MUH SUPPORT, MILLIONS OF 
USERS, PLZ
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:32] couldn't you?
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:19:38] Ask him if he wants to pay.  
if he doesn't, ignore?
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:46] oh, they all say they want 
to pay
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:19:49] Ah.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:10] but when they realise it 
costs more than $5...
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:20:15] Right.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:31] the wireless industry seems 
to be rammed full of overly entitled douches
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:48] whot hink it's totally 
justified that we support evey bit of shitty kit they have
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:51] fucking wireless vendors
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:00] every new MODEL they release 
has to come with an entirely new set of mibs
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:04] it's ridiculous
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:21:11] You're a victim of your own 
success.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:23] and none of these people 
will ever listen when you tell them
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:32] adn they just keep coming 
back and coming back
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:35] he's asked here a few times
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:40] and we've had these 
conversations on the mailing list
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:44] and god knows what else
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:02] and you'd think
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:03] when someone says
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:07] "fuck off, it's not going to 
happen"
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:13] you'd realise that was, 
well, that
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:22:53] I guess he really sees the 
advantages of Observium, and is keen for you to have further market 
penetration... over your express wishes (-:
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:06] no, he's keen to have his 
own pet hardware supported
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:23:12] That too.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:21] we already support 4 
different families of cambium kit
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:28] but apparently that doesn't 
include the devices he has
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:44] and i'm sure if i checked, 
we'd only have like 2-3 users using cambium kit
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:24:52] You could spend a few dozen 
man months of eye-straining, back-breaking labour adding in some kind of 
horribly complex and fucked up extensible API for 3rd party MIBs, and then 
telling people they can add whatever the fuck support/devices they like, but 
there's no support for it.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0

Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

I like this observium guy
On Apr 4, 2015 5:53 PM, "Jon Auer"  wrote:

> Until I see evidence to the contrary (just did a svn up and no wisp gear
> has been removed...) I'm treating that entire exchange as the internet
> equivalent of some drunk (Smeg) walking up to you(Adam) in the bar and
> grabbing your arm and saying have your wife dance with me. You're like,
> that's her choice and she says no. Repeating as the night goes on.
> Eventually maybe you snap, say some unkind things because you want the
> drunk to get lost and he just isn't taking the hint.
>
> That wasn't the first IRC exchange between them and others. Adam's
> volatility is well known but in this case I believe he was sorely provoked.
> We've all experienced the client from hell. Thing is, maybe some of us are
> the client from hell.
>
> What happened in IRC after may help understand where he is coming from...
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:18:33] While I completely understand
> that you're the author and shit, and what you say goes. period... wasn't
> that a bit of an overreaction?
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:18:56] BenA: you have no fucking
> idea
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:19:05] I don't, it's true.
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:06] these people will not take
> no for an answer
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:07] they go on
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:08] and on
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:09] and on
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:10] and on
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:19:20] Couldn't you just, like, look
> away from the screen?
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:23] BUT MUH SUPPORT, MILLIONS
> OF USERS, PLZ
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:32] couldn't you?
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:19:38] Ask him if he wants to pay.
>  if he doesn't, ignore?
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:46] *oh, they all say they
> want to pay*
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:19:49] Ah.
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:10] *but when they realise it
> costs more than $5...*
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:20:15] Right.
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:31] the wireless industry seems
> to be rammed full of overly entitled douches
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:48] whot hink it's totally
> justified that we support evey bit of shitty kit they have
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:51] fucking wireless vendors
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:00] every new MODEL they
> release has to come with an entirely new set of mibs
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:04] it's ridiculous
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:21:11] You're a victim of your own
> success.
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:23] and none of these people
> will ever listen when you tell them
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:32] adn they just keep coming
> back and coming back
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:35] *he's asked here a few
> times*
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:40] *and we've had these
> conversations on the mailing list*
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:44] *and god knows what else*
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:02] and you'd think
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:03] when someone says
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:07] "fuck off, it's not going
> to happen"
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:13] you'd realise that was,
> well, that
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:22:53] I guess he really sees the
> advantages of Observium, and is keen for you to have further market
> penetration... over your express wishes (-:
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:06] no, he's keen to have his
> own pet hardware supported
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:23:12] That too.
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:21] we already support 4
> different families of cambium kit
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:28] but apparently that doesn't
> include the devices he has
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:44] and i'm sure if i checked,
> we'd only have like 2-3 users using cambium kit
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:24:52] You could spend a few dozen
> man months of eye-straining, back-breaking labour adding in some kind of
> horribly complex and fucked up extensible API for 3rd party MIBs, and then
> telling people they can add whatever the fuck support/devices they like,
> but there's no support for it.
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:25:06] or not
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:25:14] Party-pooper.
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500]  [09:25:39] And people said you were a
> nice guy.
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:25:46] rarely
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:25:55] and even more rarely in
> here \o/
> [2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:26:49] *we have 3 cambium ptp400
> devices and 5 cambium ptp800 devices*
> [2015-

Re: [AFMUG] 12 Port SyncInjiector

[Craig House]

Paul We started using the syncbox 12 for sync on timing. It seems to be a great 
option if you dont mind running the timing cables as well as cat5 

Craig 


- Original Message -

From: "Paul McCall"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2015 12:35:14 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] 12 Port SyncInjiector 



Forrest, 



Is this is a product yet? 



Paul 



Paul McCall, Pres. 

PDMNet / Florida Broadband 

658 Old Dixie Highway 

Vero Beach, FL 32962 

772-564-6800 office 

772-473-0352 cell 

www.pdmnet.com 

pa...@pdmnet.net 

[AFMUG] 12 Port SyncInjiector

[Paul McCall]

Forrest,

Is this is a product yet?

Paul

Paul McCall, Pres.
PDMNet / Florida Broadband
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800 office
772-473-0352 cell
www.pdmnet.com
pa...@pdmnet.net

Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS

[Shayne Lebrun]

In the past, I’ve seen them both not want to give quotes for sponsored work, 
and say that they dislike user submissions because of, and this is my 
paraphrase, a combination of ‘we always have to clean it up to make it useable’ 
and ‘not invented here syndrome.’

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2015 8:47 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS

 

I had got the impression that he didn't even want user contributions.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

 

  _  

From: "Jon Auer" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2015 2:59:53 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS

It's more than just OIDs, adding device support involves a fair amount of 
fiddly little things. Finding/cropping icon, regex to match the OS/device type 
to handle it correctly, logic to handle the device-specific things, logic to 
work around whatever they broke in the MIB (remember when Cambium returned 
strings instead of ints for some counters?). Then more testing.

 

That's what makes Observium more useful out of the box than something like 
Cacti where you're adding OIDs onesey twosey to device templates.

 

I think a big part of his reaction is, if you watch IRC, for the past few 
months to years there have been people asking for WISP features and pretty much 
nobody in a place to write code to do it. My guess is he is time constrained 
and would rather work on other things (hence non-responsiveness to offers of 
money) combined with not wanting to deal with what could be perceived as 
self-entitled communication from some users.

 

The hostile reaction to WISP gear:

CMMMicro is a switch that doesn't even use the switch MIB -> Work done to 
support WISP devices doesn't pay off in helping support other 
Enterprise/Wireline devices.

 

Cambium is extra special because they version the PMP MIB against OS rev 
instead of starting out with a well-designed MIB as spec and fixing OS to 
match. The easy way out is to ignore that and use the latest but what happens 
when Cambium updates something? Bug reports from users on new OS complaining 
that something doesn't work. You update and now there's bug reports from the 
users that want to stay on old OS for a while. The hard way? Handle every OS 
rev differently/code gardening responsibility? You just can't win.

 



So, WISP gear, he doesn't need it and doesn't care. I need it and care so I 
write what I need. I may not  appreciate the politics of Observium but I'm 
being pragmatic. I contributed what little Cambium PMP device support there is 
in Observium currently and I have more devices I'd like to see supported. If 
the time comes that my contributions are turned away I'll look for another 
monitoring solution, not out of spite but because I need to monitor all the 
things.

 

There may come a time when I move to LibreNMS. They seem to have openness & 
saying yes down but I want to see how they handle saying no to extraneous 
things/feature creep beyond monitoring metrics (e.g. if it were me, allow/keep 
rancid integration but just say no to generalized IPAM). 

You can't please everyone and who/how they choose to please will be insightful. 



 

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

Do we know why Adam blows up whenever people specify OIDs they want to track? 
I've never bothered to figure it out myself. He made it seem like hte OID was 
such a small part of everything that needed to be done.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

 

  _  

From: "Neil Lathwood" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 1:08:23 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS

On 31 March 2015 at 19:04, WaveDirect  wrote:

Yeah you should accept at least equipment donations :)  Some of us may have 
spares we can part with and after you are done sell them to help buy other 
products you want to support.

 

The donation of equipment is a huge . It wouldn't be necessary to send the 
kit anywhere just provide snmp access, that way we can see what data is 
available and work on adding support.

 

Thanks,

 

Neil

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Every 6th Ping

[Shayne Lebrun]

Are you pinging over RF or over Ethernet? I.e. dropping to the AP, or dropping 
to the SM via the AP?

 

Regular spikes like that can also indicate a timing issue.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 7:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Every 6th Ping

 

Even if devices are not using the CTM as a NTP server, they tend to lock up.. 
in my experience anyways.  We have several CTM's (not CTM2) in the field that 
have experienced this.

 

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 7:06 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

If devices are set up to use the ctm2 as their ntp server then the ctm2 
interface tends to lock up.

 

Make sure nothing upset to use the ctm2 as its ntp server.

 

-sean

On Friday, April 3, 2015, Dan Petermann  wrote:

We had lost management access to the CTM2. Rebooted it and all is good now.

No idea of how that could happen.


On Apr 3, 2015, at 2:35 PM, David Sovereen  wrote:

> This seems to ring a bell as an old firmware issue… perhaps circa Version 9 
> or 10, maybe 11?
>
> Dave
>
>> On Apr 3, 2015, at 1:42 PM, Dan Petermann  wrote:
>>
>> Does anybody know what would cause every 6th ping to be in the 400-600mS 
>> range?
>>
>> This is on 5.7 PMP100 gear.
>
>

 

Re: [AFMUG] Monitoring sync status on SyncInjector

[Shayne Lebrun]

Maybe break the tree into subtrees by expansion type, then by module serial 
number? Then it doesn’t matter what’s plugged in to what.

.ent.packetflux

.ent.packetflux.4chanPOEinjectors

.ent.packetflux.4chanPOEinjectors.1

.ent.packetflux.4chanPOEinjectors.2

.ent.packetflux.8chanPOEinejctors

.ent.packetflux.8chanPOEinejctors.29692

.ent.packetflux.pmp100syncinjectors

.ent.packetflux.pmp100syncinjectors.39282

.ent.packetflux.6inputvoltagemonitors

.ent.packetflux.6inputvoltagemonitors.39992

 

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 10:59 AM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Monitoring sync status on SyncInjector

 

The order devices are plugged in mechanically does not have to correspond to 
the way they're in the expansion table, and one can reorder the devices in the 
table  at any time by entering the serial numbers of the devices in the order 
you want them to appear, and rebooting and/or rescanning.

On Apr 3, 2015 5:59 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:

The issue is the order things are plugged in. We started out plugging things in 
the way that it made the cables "neater". It would have been better if we had 
one or two standard orders.

So if you have 

SiteMonitor - SyncInjector - 4 port POE

It will be different than

SiteMonitor - 4 port POE - SyncInjector 

bp

 

On 4/3/2015 12:14 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

I wish there was a way to produce a standard for the product which was useful, 
but because of the dynamic nature of the expansion bus, and some limitations of 
the snmp stack I use, it's never going to be as static as one would like.

Along with producing standard MIB files to at least define the columns in the 
tables, I am working on some plugins for different monitoring tools to make 
this easier.

I'll look at that binary tab when I'm back in the office mid next week.  I know 
it used to work.  Not sure what changed.  Probably a good excuse to add copy 
oid to the clipboard support for the newer browsers which support this 
functionality.

On Apr 2, 2015 3:31 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

Hey Forrest.  How about a MIB?  Don't go all Ubnt on us! 


Different OID for each SiteMonitor =(




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

I think it is 1.3.6.1.4.1.32050.2.1.26.5.45 for me 

 

1.3.6.1.4.1.32050.2.1.26.5.[0-45+] with 5 being the "value" for this one.  
Confused, but I've got my answer!

 

Thanks for the help guys.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 5:20 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

On the web interface, nothing on the Binary IO page gives me an OID.  It does 
work on Base/Expansion Unit pages. 

 

On the Binary IO page I see 1pps, no OID.  On the Manager I don't see it go all 
the way to index 45.


Walking 1.3.6.1.4.1.32050.2.1.27

1.3.6.1.4.1.32050.2.1.27.2.[0-42] are descriptions

1.3.6.1.4.1.32050.2.1.27.3.[0-42] are values

 

No description for 1PPS, but I see sats in view, used pulses, early pulses, etc.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

It's also in the web interface...  The hover interface that is.

On Apr 2, 2015 3:14 PM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

Oh.  I didn't realize that worked for the Monitor II units...




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:

Download the Windows app and hover over the 'sync status' field with your 
mouse.  It should give you the OID.

 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

Does anyone know how to get this OID?  Or which OID to look to make sure the 
SyncInjector is safely putting out "good sync"?


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] FS: Upgrade Keys Cambium PTP 500 lite to full

[Daniel Gerlach]

2 x 650 EURO

2015-04-05 10:01 GMT+02:00 Daniel Gerlach :
> 10 x 3000 EURO
>
> 2015-04-04 22:00 GMT+02:00 Colin Stanners :
>> You may have better luck selling them in lots of 3-5.
>>
>> On Apr 4, 2015 9:10 AM, "Daniel Gerlach"  wrote:
>>>
>>>  26 x keys for 5000 EURO
>>>
>>> daniel

Re: [AFMUG] FS: Upgrade Keys Cambium PTP 500 lite to full

[Daniel Gerlach]

10 x 3000 EURO

2015-04-04 22:00 GMT+02:00 Colin Stanners :
> You may have better luck selling them in lots of 3-5.
>
> On Apr 4, 2015 9:10 AM, "Daniel Gerlach"  wrote:
>>
>>  26 x keys for 5000 EURO
>>
>> daniel