Re: [AFMUG] Baicells 3.65

[Mathew Howard]

I think those are slant... should be usable either way, but slant is
probably preferred. I'm actually kind of wondering if the Baicells UE's are
really slant, or if they're actually H/V.

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 8:28 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> So, I've got a Cambium / Laird / whatever antenna from a 320 setup (model
> 85010107001). I can't remember if these are H/V or slant. Anyone happen to
> know?
>
> On Sunday, April 30, 2017, David Kunat  wrote:
>
>> Oops, he answered it first!
>> On Apr 30, 2017, at 3:13 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
>>
>> There are only two antenna connectors on the base station. One of the N
>> connectors is for the GPS antenna... I'm not sure about the 4th, off hand,
>> but you definitely only need a dual polarity antenna.
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2017 6:09 PM, "Jason McKemie" > com> wrote:
>>
>> So, I bit the bullet and bought a starter kit.  I haven't picked up a
>> sector antenna as of yet though.  The base station appears to have 4 N
>> connectors, but the antennas are all standard dual-pol.  Are there just two
>> unused connectors, or am I looking at the wrong antennas?
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 7:01 PM, David  wrote:
>>
>>> "Bridge Mode" is not actual layer 2 mode. It tunnels DHCP traffic and
>>> perhaps other traffic between the CPE and the Base stating data interface
>>> so that you can use Powercode or something similar to hand out addresses. I
>>> set it up, and it works for DHCP just fine. The device you plug into the
>>> CPE still gets an EPC  ip address (the EPC is the cloud management server
>>> or it can also run on your own server, it is required and tunnels to the
>>> base station).
>>>
>>> They are making lots of progress, and if they follow through with new
>>> LTE revisions, this may very well may be the next new thing. Right now, its
>>> a work in progress, but works to sell internet for residential customers
>>> and we are happy with it for our needs.
>>>
>>> We power them with a Netonix, off of a POE port. Works great. Just set
>>> the port to 48VH (only the first port on a WS-8-150, or only the first 4
>>> ports on a WS-12-250 up to Revision F, and only the first 2 ports on
>>> WS-12-250 after revision F) and connect orange and blue pairs to POSITIVE
>>> and green and brown pairs to NEGATIVE. You eat up one port on your
>>> Netonix if you have a small one, since you still have to connect the data
>>> cable of course (data port is labeled "WAN" port on the outside).
>>>
>>> Hope that helps someone experimenting. There are quite a few tweaks we
>>> had to do to make them work. Plan on 2 to 4 days of messing with it.
>>> Support is responsive.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
>>>
 Eventually there will be a 1/dollar per month fee per user for the
 Cloud EPC. They are working on a local EPC option but it's not ironed out
 yet. The monthly user fee is not being charged yet as far as I know.


 Joe

 On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:

> Are there any hidden fees
>
> like monthly, cpe based, AP based, number of users?
>
> Core controller?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> On 04/28/2017 02:59 PM, Jerry Head wrote:
>
> True.
>
>
> On 4/28/2017 2:43 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> Yeah, but the thing I didn't realize before I ordered, was that
> there's actually no reason you need to use the Baicells power cable - the
> eNB does come with the power connector, which can easily be put on cable 
> of
> the appropriate type.
>
> You do need an antenna though... I used a KPP sector.
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 2:35 PM, Jerry Head  > wrote:
>
>> You also need a power cable as the base station is not POE.
>>
>>
>> On 4/28/2017 2:30 PM, Tim Alexander wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jason,
>>
>> Just to be clear, you probably know this, you do need an antenna for
>> the AP itself.
>>
>> The firmware is very much in beta. Rate limiting, proper l3 routing,
>> l2 bridging (or what passes for it in LTE world), snmp, and comprehensive
>> management are still very much works in progress. The cloud EPC also 
>> tends
>> to have issues and goes down randomly. They are bringing up more 
>> instances
>> in Microsoft's azure cloud and altering some of the ways the tunnel works
>> they said recently.
>>
>>
>> *Timothy Alexander*
>> *Amplex Internet*
>> E-mail: t...@amplex.net
>> Office: 419-837-5015 <%28419%29%20837-5015>
>> Mailing Address:
>> 22690 Pemberville Rd
>> Luckey, OH 43443
>> On 4/28/2017 3:23 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Mitch Koep
>
> A Better 

Re: [AFMUG] Albuquerque

[Ryan Ray]

Chuck did say to his lawyer though that the court will make minor changes
to accommodate his condition.

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Here is my prediction:
> Jimmy is going to trial because he knows he can make Chuck flip out at all
> the electronics in the courtroom.
> I think Chuck will fold when presented with this possibility.
>
> Sorry, don't know of any WISPs in ABQ.
>
> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen
> Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 11:26 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Albuquerque
>
>
> On 4/27/17 09:51, Bill Prince wrote:
>
>> Better call him...
>>
>>
>
> I hear he skipped town for some reason.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells 3.65

[Jason McKemie]

So, I've got a Cambium / Laird / whatever antenna from a 320 setup (model
85010107001). I can't remember if these are H/V or slant. Anyone happen to
know?

On Sunday, April 30, 2017, David Kunat  wrote:

> Oops, he answered it first!
> On Apr 30, 2017, at 3:13 PM, Mathew Howard  > wrote:
>
> There are only two antenna connectors on the base station. One of the N
> connectors is for the GPS antenna... I'm not sure about the 4th, off hand,
> but you definitely only need a dual polarity antenna.
>
> On Apr 30, 2017 6:09 PM, "Jason McKemie"  > wrote:
>
> So, I bit the bullet and bought a starter kit.  I haven't picked up a
> sector antenna as of yet though.  The base station appears to have 4 N
> connectors, but the antennas are all standard dual-pol.  Are there just two
> unused connectors, or am I looking at the wrong antennas?
>
> On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 7:01 PM, David  > wrote:
>
>> "Bridge Mode" is not actual layer 2 mode. It tunnels DHCP traffic and
>> perhaps other traffic between the CPE and the Base stating data interface
>> so that you can use Powercode or something similar to hand out addresses. I
>> set it up, and it works for DHCP just fine. The device you plug into the
>> CPE still gets an EPC  ip address (the EPC is the cloud management server
>> or it can also run on your own server, it is required and tunnels to the
>> base station).
>>
>> They are making lots of progress, and if they follow through with new LTE
>> revisions, this may very well may be the next new thing. Right now, its a
>> work in progress, but works to sell internet for residential customers and
>> we are happy with it for our needs.
>>
>> We power them with a Netonix, off of a POE port. Works great. Just set
>> the port to 48VH (only the first port on a WS-8-150, or only the first 4
>> ports on a WS-12-250 up to Revision F, and only the first 2 ports on
>> WS-12-250 after revision F) and connect orange and blue pairs to POSITIVE
>> and green and brown pairs to NEGATIVE. You eat up one port on your
>> Netonix if you have a small one, since you still have to connect the data
>> cable of course (data port is labeled "WAN" port on the outside).
>>
>> Hope that helps someone experimenting. There are quite a few tweaks we
>> had to do to make them work. Plan on 2 to 4 days of messing with it.
>> Support is responsive.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Joe Novak > > wrote:
>>
>>> Eventually there will be a 1/dollar per month fee per user for the Cloud
>>> EPC. They are working on a local EPC option but it's not ironed out yet.
>>> The monthly user fee is not being charged yet as far as I know.
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Mitch Koep >> > wrote:
>>>
 Are there any hidden fees

 like monthly, cpe based, AP based, number of users?

 Core controller?

 Thanks



 On 04/28/2017 02:59 PM, Jerry Head wrote:

 True.


 On 4/28/2017 2:43 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

 Yeah, but the thing I didn't realize before I ordered, was that there's
 actually no reason you need to use the Baicells power cable - the eNB does
 come with the power connector, which can easily be put on cable of the
 appropriate type.

 You do need an antenna though... I used a KPP sector.

 On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 2:35 PM, Jerry Head > wrote:

> You also need a power cable as the base station is not POE.
>
>
> On 4/28/2017 2:30 PM, Tim Alexander wrote:
>
> Hi Jason,
>
> Just to be clear, you probably know this, you do need an antenna for
> the AP itself.
>
> The firmware is very much in beta. Rate limiting, proper l3 routing,
> l2 bridging (or what passes for it in LTE world), snmp, and comprehensive
> management are still very much works in progress. The cloud EPC also tends
> to have issues and goes down randomly. They are bringing up more instances
> in Microsoft's azure cloud and altering some of the ways the tunnel works
> they said recently.
>
>
> *Timothy Alexander*
> *Amplex Internet*
> E-mail: t...@amplex.net
> 
> Office: 419-837-5015 <%28419%29%20837-5015>
> Mailing Address:
> 22690 Pemberville Rd
> Luckey, OH 43443
> On 4/28/2017 3:23 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
>
>


 --
 Mitch Koep

 A Better Wireless218-851-8689 <(218)%20851-8689> 

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells 3.65

[David Kunat]

Oops, he answered it first!
> On Apr 30, 2017, at 3:13 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
> 
> There are only two antenna connectors on the base station. One of the N 
> connectors is for the GPS antenna... I'm not sure about the 4th, off hand, 
> but you definitely only need a dual polarity antenna. 
> 
> On Apr 30, 2017 6:09 PM, "Jason McKemie"  
> wrote:
> So, I bit the bullet and bought a starter kit.  I haven't picked up a sector 
> antenna as of yet though.  The base station appears to have 4 N connectors, 
> but the antennas are all standard dual-pol.  Are there just two unused 
> connectors, or am I looking at the wrong antennas?
> 
> On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 7:01 PM, David  wrote:
>> "Bridge Mode" is not actual layer 2 mode. It tunnels DHCP traffic and 
>> perhaps other traffic between the CPE and the Base stating data interface so 
>> that you can use Powercode or something similar to hand out addresses. I set 
>> it up, and it works for DHCP just fine. The device you plug into the CPE 
>> still gets an EPC  ip address (the EPC is the cloud management server or it 
>> can also run on your own server, it is required and tunnels to the base 
>> station).
>> 
>> They are making lots of progress, and if they follow through with new LTE 
>> revisions, this may very well may be the next new thing. Right now, its a 
>> work in progress, but works to sell internet for residential customers and 
>> we are happy with it for our needs.
>> 
>> We power them with a Netonix, off of a POE port. Works great. Just set the 
>> port to 48VH (only the first port on a WS-8-150, or only the first 4 ports 
>> on a WS-12-250 up to Revision F, and only the first 2 ports on WS-12-250 
>> after revision F) and connect orange and blue pairs to POSITIVE and green 
>> and brown pairs to NEGATIVE. You eat up one port on your Netonix if you have 
>> a small one, since you still have to connect the data cable of course (data 
>> port is labeled "WAN" port on the outside).
>> 
>> Hope that helps someone experimenting. There are quite a few tweaks we had 
>> to do to make them work. Plan on 2 to 4 days of messing with it. Support is 
>> responsive.
>> 
>> David
>> 
>>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
>>> Eventually there will be a 1/dollar per month fee per user for the Cloud 
>>> EPC. They are working on a local EPC option but it's not ironed out yet. 
>>> The monthly user fee is not being charged yet as far as I know.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Joe
>>> 
 On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
 Are there any hidden fees
 
 like monthly, cpe based, AP based, number of users?
 
 Core controller?
 
 Thanks
 
 
> On 04/28/2017 02:59 PM, Jerry Head wrote:
> True.
> 
> 
>> On 4/28/2017 2:43 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>> Yeah, but the thing I didn't realize before I ordered, was that there's 
>> actually no reason you need to use the Baicells power cable - the eNB 
>> does come with the power connector, which can easily be put on cable of 
>> the appropriate type.
>> 
>> You do need an antenna though... I used a KPP sector.
>> 
>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 2:35 PM, Jerry Head  
>> wrote:
>>> You also need a power cable as the base station is not POE.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 4/28/2017 2:30 PM, Tim Alexander wrote:
 Hi Jason,
 
 Just to be clear, you probably know this, you do need an antenna for 
 the AP itself.
 
 The firmware is very much in beta. Rate limiting, proper l3 routing, 
 l2 bridging (or what passes for it in LTE world), snmp, and 
 comprehensive management are still very much works in progress. The 
 cloud EPC also tends to have issues and goes down randomly. They are 
 bringing up more instances in Microsoft's azure cloud and altering 
 some of the ways the tunnel works they said recently. 
 
 
 Timothy Alexander
 Amplex Internet
 E-mail: t...@amplex.net
 Office: 419-837-5015
 Mailing Address:
 22690 Pemberville Rd
 Luckey, OH 43443
 On 4/28/2017 3:23 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 
 -- 
 Mitch Koep
 
 A Better Wireless
 218-851-8689 cell
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> David Kunat
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells 3.65

[David Kunat]

There are only two antenna connectors. The third is for Gps, and the fourth is 
for a spectrum analyzer, but that function does not exist in software.

> On Apr 30, 2017, at 3:09 PM, Jason McKemie  
> wrote:
> 
> So, I bit the bullet and bought a starter kit.  I haven't picked up a sector 
> antenna as of yet though.  The base station appears to have 4 N connectors, 
> but the antennas are all standard dual-pol.  Are there just two unused 
> connectors, or am I looking at the wrong antennas?
> 
>> On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 7:01 PM, David  wrote:
>> "Bridge Mode" is not actual layer 2 mode. It tunnels DHCP traffic and 
>> perhaps other traffic between the CPE and the Base stating data interface so 
>> that you can use Powercode or something similar to hand out addresses. I set 
>> it up, and it works for DHCP just fine. The device you plug into the CPE 
>> still gets an EPC  ip address (the EPC is the cloud management server or it 
>> can also run on your own server, it is required and tunnels to the base 
>> station).
>> 
>> They are making lots of progress, and if they follow through with new LTE 
>> revisions, this may very well may be the next new thing. Right now, its a 
>> work in progress, but works to sell internet for residential customers and 
>> we are happy with it for our needs.
>> 
>> We power them with a Netonix, off of a POE port. Works great. Just set the 
>> port to 48VH (only the first port on a WS-8-150, or only the first 4 ports 
>> on a WS-12-250 up to Revision F, and only the first 2 ports on WS-12-250 
>> after revision F) and connect orange and blue pairs to POSITIVE and green 
>> and brown pairs to NEGATIVE. You eat up one port on your Netonix if you have 
>> a small one, since you still have to connect the data cable of course (data 
>> port is labeled "WAN" port on the outside).
>> 
>> Hope that helps someone experimenting. There are quite a few tweaks we had 
>> to do to make them work. Plan on 2 to 4 days of messing with it. Support is 
>> responsive.
>> 
>> David
>> 
>>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
>>> Eventually there will be a 1/dollar per month fee per user for the Cloud 
>>> EPC. They are working on a local EPC option but it's not ironed out yet. 
>>> The monthly user fee is not being charged yet as far as I know.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Joe
>>> 
 On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
 Are there any hidden fees
 
 like monthly, cpe based, AP based, number of users?
 
 Core controller?
 
 Thanks
 
 
> On 04/28/2017 02:59 PM, Jerry Head wrote:
> True.
> 
> 
>> On 4/28/2017 2:43 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>> Yeah, but the thing I didn't realize before I ordered, was that there's 
>> actually no reason you need to use the Baicells power cable - the eNB 
>> does come with the power connector, which can easily be put on cable of 
>> the appropriate type.
>> 
>> You do need an antenna though... I used a KPP sector.
>> 
>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 2:35 PM, Jerry Head  
>> wrote:
>>> You also need a power cable as the base station is not POE.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 4/28/2017 2:30 PM, Tim Alexander wrote:
 Hi Jason,
 
 Just to be clear, you probably know this, you do need an antenna for 
 the AP itself.
 
 The firmware is very much in beta. Rate limiting, proper l3 routing, 
 l2 bridging (or what passes for it in LTE world), snmp, and 
 comprehensive management are still very much works in progress. The 
 cloud EPC also tends to have issues and goes down randomly. They are 
 bringing up more instances in Microsoft's azure cloud and altering 
 some of the ways the tunnel works they said recently. 
 
 
 Timothy Alexander
 Amplex Internet
 E-mail: t...@amplex.net
 Office: 419-837-5015
 Mailing Address:
 22690 Pemberville Rd
 Luckey, OH 43443
 On 4/28/2017 3:23 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 
 -- 
 Mitch Koep
 
 A Better Wireless
 218-851-8689 cell
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> David Kunat
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells 3.65

[Jason McKemie]

Gotcha, thanks.

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> There are only two antenna connectors on the base station. One of the N
> connectors is for the GPS antenna... I'm not sure about the 4th, off hand,
> but you definitely only need a dual polarity antenna.
>
> On Apr 30, 2017 6:09 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
> wrote:
>
> So, I bit the bullet and bought a starter kit.  I haven't picked up a
> sector antenna as of yet though.  The base station appears to have 4 N
> connectors, but the antennas are all standard dual-pol.  Are there just two
> unused connectors, or am I looking at the wrong antennas?
>
> On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 7:01 PM, David  wrote:
>
>> "Bridge Mode" is not actual layer 2 mode. It tunnels DHCP traffic and
>> perhaps other traffic between the CPE and the Base stating data interface
>> so that you can use Powercode or something similar to hand out addresses. I
>> set it up, and it works for DHCP just fine. The device you plug into the
>> CPE still gets an EPC  ip address (the EPC is the cloud management server
>> or it can also run on your own server, it is required and tunnels to the
>> base station).
>>
>> They are making lots of progress, and if they follow through with new LTE
>> revisions, this may very well may be the next new thing. Right now, its a
>> work in progress, but works to sell internet for residential customers and
>> we are happy with it for our needs.
>>
>> We power them with a Netonix, off of a POE port. Works great. Just set
>> the port to 48VH (only the first port on a WS-8-150, or only the first 4
>> ports on a WS-12-250 up to Revision F, and only the first 2 ports on
>> WS-12-250 after revision F) and connect orange and blue pairs to POSITIVE
>> and green and brown pairs to NEGATIVE. You eat up one port on your
>> Netonix if you have a small one, since you still have to connect the data
>> cable of course (data port is labeled "WAN" port on the outside).
>>
>> Hope that helps someone experimenting. There are quite a few tweaks we
>> had to do to make them work. Plan on 2 to 4 days of messing with it.
>> Support is responsive.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
>>
>>> Eventually there will be a 1/dollar per month fee per user for the Cloud
>>> EPC. They are working on a local EPC option but it's not ironed out yet.
>>> The monthly user fee is not being charged yet as far as I know.
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
>>>
 Are there any hidden fees

 like monthly, cpe based, AP based, number of users?

 Core controller?

 Thanks



 On 04/28/2017 02:59 PM, Jerry Head wrote:

 True.


 On 4/28/2017 2:43 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

 Yeah, but the thing I didn't realize before I ordered, was that there's
 actually no reason you need to use the Baicells power cable - the eNB does
 come with the power connector, which can easily be put on cable of the
 appropriate type.

 You do need an antenna though... I used a KPP sector.

 On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 2:35 PM, Jerry Head 
 wrote:

> You also need a power cable as the base station is not POE.
>
>
> On 4/28/2017 2:30 PM, Tim Alexander wrote:
>
> Hi Jason,
>
> Just to be clear, you probably know this, you do need an antenna for
> the AP itself.
>
> The firmware is very much in beta. Rate limiting, proper l3 routing,
> l2 bridging (or what passes for it in LTE world), snmp, and comprehensive
> management are still very much works in progress. The cloud EPC also tends
> to have issues and goes down randomly. They are bringing up more instances
> in Microsoft's azure cloud and altering some of the ways the tunnel works
> they said recently.
>
>
> *Timothy Alexander*
> *Amplex Internet*
> E-mail: t...@amplex.net
> Office: 419-837-5015 <%28419%29%20837-5015>
> Mailing Address:
> 22690 Pemberville Rd
> Luckey, OH 43443
> On 4/28/2017 3:23 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
>
>


 --
 Mitch Koep

 A Better Wireless218-851-8689 <(218)%20851-8689> cell


>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Kunat
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells 3.65

[Mathew Howard]

There are only two antenna connectors on the base station. One of the N
connectors is for the GPS antenna... I'm not sure about the 4th, off hand,
but you definitely only need a dual polarity antenna.

On Apr 30, 2017 6:09 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
wrote:

So, I bit the bullet and bought a starter kit.  I haven't picked up a
sector antenna as of yet though.  The base station appears to have 4 N
connectors, but the antennas are all standard dual-pol.  Are there just two
unused connectors, or am I looking at the wrong antennas?

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 7:01 PM, David  wrote:

> "Bridge Mode" is not actual layer 2 mode. It tunnels DHCP traffic and
> perhaps other traffic between the CPE and the Base stating data interface
> so that you can use Powercode or something similar to hand out addresses. I
> set it up, and it works for DHCP just fine. The device you plug into the
> CPE still gets an EPC  ip address (the EPC is the cloud management server
> or it can also run on your own server, it is required and tunnels to the
> base station).
>
> They are making lots of progress, and if they follow through with new LTE
> revisions, this may very well may be the next new thing. Right now, its a
> work in progress, but works to sell internet for residential customers and
> we are happy with it for our needs.
>
> We power them with a Netonix, off of a POE port. Works great. Just set the
> port to 48VH (only the first port on a WS-8-150, or only the first 4 ports
> on a WS-12-250 up to Revision F, and only the first 2 ports on WS-12-250
> after revision F) and connect orange and blue pairs to POSITIVE and green
> and brown pairs to NEGATIVE. You eat up one port on your Netonix if you
> have a small one, since you still have to connect the data cable of course
> (data port is labeled "WAN" port on the outside).
>
> Hope that helps someone experimenting. There are quite a few tweaks we had
> to do to make them work. Plan on 2 to 4 days of messing with it. Support is
> responsive.
>
> David
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
>
>> Eventually there will be a 1/dollar per month fee per user for the Cloud
>> EPC. They are working on a local EPC option but it's not ironed out yet.
>> The monthly user fee is not being charged yet as far as I know.
>>
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
>>
>>> Are there any hidden fees
>>>
>>> like monthly, cpe based, AP based, number of users?
>>>
>>> Core controller?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/28/2017 02:59 PM, Jerry Head wrote:
>>>
>>> True.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/28/2017 2:43 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, but the thing I didn't realize before I ordered, was that there's
>>> actually no reason you need to use the Baicells power cable - the eNB does
>>> come with the power connector, which can easily be put on cable of the
>>> appropriate type.
>>>
>>> You do need an antenna though... I used a KPP sector.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 2:35 PM, Jerry Head 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 You also need a power cable as the base station is not POE.


 On 4/28/2017 2:30 PM, Tim Alexander wrote:

 Hi Jason,

 Just to be clear, you probably know this, you do need an antenna for
 the AP itself.

 The firmware is very much in beta. Rate limiting, proper l3 routing, l2
 bridging (or what passes for it in LTE world), snmp, and comprehensive
 management are still very much works in progress. The cloud EPC also tends
 to have issues and goes down randomly. They are bringing up more instances
 in Microsoft's azure cloud and altering some of the ways the tunnel works
 they said recently.


 *Timothy Alexander*
 *Amplex Internet*
 E-mail: t...@amplex.net
 Office: 419-837-5015 <%28419%29%20837-5015>
 Mailing Address:
 22690 Pemberville Rd
 Luckey, OH 43443
 On 4/28/2017 3:23 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:



>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mitch Koep
>>>
>>> A Better Wireless218-851-8689 <(218)%20851-8689> cell
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> David Kunat
>

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells 3.65

[Jason McKemie]

So, I bit the bullet and bought a starter kit.  I haven't picked up a
sector antenna as of yet though.  The base station appears to have 4 N
connectors, but the antennas are all standard dual-pol.  Are there just two
unused connectors, or am I looking at the wrong antennas?

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 7:01 PM, David  wrote:

> "Bridge Mode" is not actual layer 2 mode. It tunnels DHCP traffic and
> perhaps other traffic between the CPE and the Base stating data interface
> so that you can use Powercode or something similar to hand out addresses. I
> set it up, and it works for DHCP just fine. The device you plug into the
> CPE still gets an EPC  ip address (the EPC is the cloud management server
> or it can also run on your own server, it is required and tunnels to the
> base station).
>
> They are making lots of progress, and if they follow through with new LTE
> revisions, this may very well may be the next new thing. Right now, its a
> work in progress, but works to sell internet for residential customers and
> we are happy with it for our needs.
>
> We power them with a Netonix, off of a POE port. Works great. Just set the
> port to 48VH (only the first port on a WS-8-150, or only the first 4 ports
> on a WS-12-250 up to Revision F, and only the first 2 ports on WS-12-250
> after revision F) and connect orange and blue pairs to POSITIVE and green
> and brown pairs to NEGATIVE. You eat up one port on your Netonix if you
> have a small one, since you still have to connect the data cable of course
> (data port is labeled "WAN" port on the outside).
>
> Hope that helps someone experimenting. There are quite a few tweaks we had
> to do to make them work. Plan on 2 to 4 days of messing with it. Support is
> responsive.
>
> David
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Joe Novak  wrote:
>
>> Eventually there will be a 1/dollar per month fee per user for the Cloud
>> EPC. They are working on a local EPC option but it's not ironed out yet.
>> The monthly user fee is not being charged yet as far as I know.
>>
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
>>
>>> Are there any hidden fees
>>>
>>> like monthly, cpe based, AP based, number of users?
>>>
>>> Core controller?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/28/2017 02:59 PM, Jerry Head wrote:
>>>
>>> True.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/28/2017 2:43 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, but the thing I didn't realize before I ordered, was that there's
>>> actually no reason you need to use the Baicells power cable - the eNB does
>>> come with the power connector, which can easily be put on cable of the
>>> appropriate type.
>>>
>>> You do need an antenna though... I used a KPP sector.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 2:35 PM, Jerry Head 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 You also need a power cable as the base station is not POE.


 On 4/28/2017 2:30 PM, Tim Alexander wrote:

 Hi Jason,

 Just to be clear, you probably know this, you do need an antenna for
 the AP itself.

 The firmware is very much in beta. Rate limiting, proper l3 routing, l2
 bridging (or what passes for it in LTE world), snmp, and comprehensive
 management are still very much works in progress. The cloud EPC also tends
 to have issues and goes down randomly. They are bringing up more instances
 in Microsoft's azure cloud and altering some of the ways the tunnel works
 they said recently.


 *Timothy Alexander*
 *Amplex Internet*
 E-mail: t...@amplex.net
 Office: 419-837-5015 <%28419%29%20837-5015>
 Mailing Address:
 22690 Pemberville Rd
 Luckey, OH 43443
 On 4/28/2017 3:23 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:



>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mitch Koep
>>>
>>> A Better Wireless218-851-8689 <(218)%20851-8689> cell
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> David Kunat
>

Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

[Chuck McCown]

Late 1970s.

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 1:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

I don't know when or where that was, but I'm 100% sure that punch out/punch in 
thing would be illegal today in NY State.  The DOL would argue that moving from 
one truck to another was part of your job and you'd need to be paid for that 
time.  I'd also bet a donut that there's an OSHA rule about running on a 
loading dock. 

I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying that there are other mitigating 
factors in play.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 4/30/2017 12:42:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

  Recumbent followed by elliptical followed by universal gym.  Screw the 
treadmill.

  But I still jog around (and really when I say run, I really mean jog) from 
building to building or truck to house if I am trying to set an example for a 
new hire etc.  

  When I was younger working at UPS, my supervisor would punch me out when done 
loading or unloading a truck, then I literally had to run across the hub to the 
next truck where they would punch you back in.  Not only did you not get paid 
for that time period you got your ass chewed if you took too much time getting 
there.  

  And if you ever told one of those guys to fuck off, you not only would you 
have been fired, you might have needed dental work too.  

  From: Sean Heskett 
  Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 10:05 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

  Running is for children and thieves ;-)

  At lest that's what I always tell all my friends who try to get me to go for 
a jog with them lol.

  Personally I prefer the rowing machine to the damn treadmill at the gym.

  -sean 

  On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:43 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide 
that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare.

I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do 
at least 3 per day to keep their job.  Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 
or keep them on piece rate. 

Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house?  
Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of 
drill sergeant treatment.  

I believe in “management by telling”  you actually have to tell them, in 
simple and clear terms exactly what you want.  



From: Brandon Yuchasz 
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway 
sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to 
teach / train a new installer to work faster? 



We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties 
as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of 
networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on 
installs and the primary job he was hired to do.



I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where 
the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time 
with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, 
wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see 
the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze.



I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a 
hard install. The second one easy.  They took him over  10 hours not counting 
drive time. 



I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers 
permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single 
thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and 
asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each 
install. So had I but we are both experienced.



So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then 
took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire 
install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left 
the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not 
physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask 
because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and  
would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process 
so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no 
hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00



I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on 
installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three 
to four a day. I felt like I got 

Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

[Adam Moffett]

I don't know when or where that was, but I'm 100% sure that punch 
out/punch in thing would be illegal today in NY State.  The DOL would 
argue that moving from one truck to another was part of your job and 
you'd need to be paid for that time.  I'd also bet a donut that there's 
an OSHA rule about running on a loading dock.


I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying that there are other 
mitigating factors in play.



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 4/30/2017 12:42:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

Recumbent followed by elliptical followed by universal gym.  Screw the 
treadmill.


But I still jog around (and really when I say run, I really mean jog) 
from building to building or truck to house if I am trying to set an 
example for a new hire etc.


When I was younger working at UPS, my supervisor would punch me out 
when done loading or unloading a truck, then I literally had to run 
across the hub to the next truck where they would punch you back in.  
Not only did you not get paid for that time period you got your ass 
chewed if you took too much time getting there.


And if you ever told one of those guys to fuck off, you not only would 
you have been fired, you might have needed dental work too.


From:Sean Heskett
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 10:05 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

Running is for children and thieves ;-)

At lest that's what I always tell all my friends who try to get me to 
go for a jog with them lol.


Personally I prefer the rowing machine to the damn treadmill at the 
gym.


-sean

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:43 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they 
decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be 
rare.


I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have 
to do at least 3 per day to keep their job.  Once they are doing 3, 
then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate.


Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to 
house?  Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give 
them a bit of drill sergeant treatment.


I believe in “management by telling”  you actually have to tell them, 
in simple and clear terms exactly what you want.




From:Brandon Yuchasz
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway 
sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about 
trying to teach / train a new installer to work faster?




We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other 
duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good 
understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is 
that he is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to 
do.




I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out 
where the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys 
ahead of time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the 
survey. Install here, wire down here, across here in through wall here 
and terminate. You could see the tower from these sites so hanging and 
tuning the radio was a breeze.




I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I 
considered a hard install. The second one easy.  They took him over  
10 hours not counting drive time.




I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers 
permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not 
a single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another 
installer with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He 
came up to 3 hours for each install. So had I but we are both 
experienced.




So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and 
then took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the 
entire install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. 
Install router. I left the more experienced guy with him to answer 
questions but told him to not physically help and explained to the new 
guy that if he had questions to ask because the other guy is there to 
help him figure out a faster process and  would be talking with me 
after the install about ways to speed up the process so we can help 
him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no hard 
feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00




I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on 
installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock 
out three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours 
max when I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the 
new guy I drove a half hour to what I considered a hard install and 
did it alone. Was done at 12:30 and driving back to check on the 

Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

[Chuck McCown]

Recumbent followed by elliptical followed by universal gym.  Screw the 
treadmill.

But I still jog around (and really when I say run, I really mean jog) from 
building to building or truck to house if I am trying to set an example for a 
new hire etc.  

When I was younger working at UPS, my supervisor would punch me out when done 
loading or unloading a truck, then I literally had to run across the hub to the 
next truck where they would punch you back in.  Not only did you not get paid 
for that time period you got your ass chewed if you took too much time getting 
there.  

And if you ever told one of those guys to fuck off, you not only would you have 
been fired, you might have needed dental work too.  

From: Sean Heskett 
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 10:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

Running is for children and thieves ;-)

At lest that's what I always tell all my friends who try to get me to go for a 
jog with them lol.

Personally I prefer the rowing machine to the damn treadmill at the gym.

-sean 

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:43 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide 
that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare.

  I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do at 
least 3 per day to keep their job.  Once they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or 
keep them on piece rate. 

  Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house?  
Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of 
drill sergeant treatment.  

  I believe in “management by telling”  you actually have to tell them, in 
simple and clear terms exactly what you want.  



  From: Brandon Yuchasz 
  Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
  I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway sorry) 
. But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to teach / 
train a new installer to work faster? 



  We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other duties 
as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good understanding of 
networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on 
installs and the primary job he was hired to do.



  I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where the 
speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of time with 
me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install here, wire 
down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You could see the 
tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a breeze.



  I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered a 
hard install. The second one easy.  They took him over  10 hours not counting 
drive time. 



  I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers 
permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a single 
thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer with me and 
asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3 hours for each 
install. So had I but we are both experienced.



  So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then 
took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire 
install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I left 
the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to not 
physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions to ask 
because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster process and  
would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed up the process 
so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is a supervisor so no 
hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00



  I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on 
installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out three 
to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when I was 
alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove a half 
hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done at 12:30 
and driving back to check on the new guy.  When I got there he was just about 
done with the install but the truck was spread around the driveway ( not 
throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was going past hour 4 at 
this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was going to be at 5 for 
sure.  I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly asked the other guy to pack 
up the truck some.  This was done for selfish reasons ( its Friday and I have a 
family) and also because we had a  between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install 
of the day. 



  Grabbed subway. Scoffed it 

Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

[Sean Heskett]

Running is for children and thieves ;-)

At lest that's what I always tell all my friends who try to get me to go
for a jog with them lol.

Personally I prefer the rowing machine to the damn treadmill at the gym.

-sean

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 6:43 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide
> that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare.
>
> I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to do
> at least 3 per day to keep their job.  Once they are doing 3, then up it to
> 4 or keep them on piece rate.
>
> Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to house?
> Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a bit of
> drill sergeant treatment.
>
> I believe in “management by telling”  you actually have to tell them, in
> simple and clear terms exactly what you want.
>
>
>
> *From:* Brandon Yuchasz
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
>
> I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway
> sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to
> teach / train a new installer to work faster?
>
>
>
> We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer with other
> duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties and has a good
> understanding of networking, computers and even RF. The problem is that he
> is very slow on installs and the primary job he was hired to do.
>
>
>
> I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to figure out where
> the speed issues were coming from. So I took him on site surveys ahead of
> time with me and we laid out the entire installs during the survey. Install
> here, wire down here, across here in through wall here and terminate. You
> could see the tower from these sites so hanging and tuning the radio was a
> breeze.
>
>
>
> I sent him out on two installs the day after that. First one I considered
> a hard install. The second one easy.  They took him over  10 hours not
> counting drive time.
>
>
>
> I spent the next morning doing site checks on them with the customers
> permission. Both customers were happy with him and his install and not a
> single thing on the install was done incorrectly I took another installer
> with me and asked him to run the time frame in his head. He came up to 3
> hours for each install. So had I but we are both experienced.
>
>
>
> So I talked really briefly with the new guy about getting faster and then
> took him to an install I had surveyed myself. Ran him through the entire
> install. Radio here, wire down here….. in and terminate. Install router. I
> left the more experienced guy with him to answer questions but told him to
> not physically help and explained to the new guy that if he had questions
> to ask because the other guy is there to help him figure out a faster
> process and  would be talking with me after the install about ways to speed
> up the process so we can help him. I should mention the experienced guy is
> a supervisor so no hard feelings should be had here. I left him at 9:00
>
>
>
> I was thinking that maybe I was being unrealistic in my time frames on
> installs since normally I have a helper on my installs and we knock out
> three to four a day. I felt like I got my installs done in 3 hours max when
> I was alone but never really timed them. So when I left the new guy I drove
> a half hour to what I considered a hard install and did it alone. Was done
> at 12:30 and driving back to check on the new guy.  When I got there he was
> just about done with the install but the truck was spread around the
> driveway ( not throwing stones I have been known to do this). So he was
> going past hour 4 at this point with paperwork and packing the truck he was
> going to be at 5 for sure.  I stepped in did the paperwork and quietly
> asked the other guy to pack up the truck some.  This was done for selfish
> reasons ( its Friday and I have a family) and also because we had a
> between 1 and 3 to hit for the final install of the day.
>
>
>
> Grabbed subway. Scoffed it down. I bought and we headed to the last job.
>
>
>
> I had the supervisor guy in my truck and we have worked together a lot
> 100s of installs together. So on the way to the install which he had never
> seen I prep him on it. Big ladder ( 32”) up on the gable on the back of the
> house.  Take the little giant around to the deck so I can access the roof.
> And it’s a tripod install. So when we pull into the drive I point to the
> back of the house “that’s the back” he says okay and I go to ring the
> doorbell and say hello.  He has the new guy with him so he told him to help
> with the ladder and then instructed him to start an rj45 on a wire. When I
> walked out the ladder was up and the supervisor was at the top screwing
> down the tripod. I grabbed the mast, mounted the 

Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

[Jaime Solorza]

Hand is up!!

On Apr 30, 2017 9:03 AM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> Well this old dude can usually out work and out last most younger
> workers.  Experience keeps you from simple mistakes that cause delays. For
> example , getting in roof with no charge in drill battery, forgetting right
> tools for job, climbing tower with not enough tools or mounting gear
> accessoriesDiscpline keeps you on track, focus keeps you safe, and
> skipping the bullshit chats allows you to get task completed in decent time
> frame.   The 6Ps is the key ...Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor
> Performance... Enough already, heading to Good Luck Cafe for breakfast
>
> On Apr 24, 2017 9:52 AM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>
>> I don't care whether or not they run, but as long as they aren't wasting
>> time. There's a big difference between the guy that walks as slow as he can
>> just so that he can get out of doing some work back at the office, or get
>> some over time and the guy that's working out the best way to run the
>> cable, or calling the office to find out if there are any service calls we
>> need him to do while he's walking back to the truck.
>>
>> What it really comes down to, is whether or not an employee cares about
>> what kind of work they do, or if they just want to do everything in the
>> easiest possible way and don't really care if what it looks like or how
>> long it takes.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Carl Peterson <
>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm in the anti-run crowd.  Thinking ahead is much more effective.  I
>>> would try being his helper.  Don't do anything unless he tells you to.  You
>>> can prompt him, i.e ask him what he needs you to do.  Take all day if you
>>> need to but make him think through the install.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
 I never suggested not being safe.

 Here is a fragment of the post that started this thread:

 “This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck
 heading home in just under two hours. But that was two guys and we ran.



 Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss
 with this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I always
 run to the truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This guy defiantly
 does not run and nothing is done with any sense of urgency. “

 So who are you being the advocate for in this situation?  Me, I am 100%
 on the side of the employer here.
 Sounds like some of you are on the side of telling the employer to fuck
 off.

 The point being argued is not safety, not being abusive, it is not even
 running.  It is a slow employee with no sense of urgency.  How can anyone
 defend that?


 *From:* Josh Reynolds
 *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 9:04 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

 Am soldier, no longer enlisted.

 No one is dying by not having internet, but they could die in a ladder
 accident or cordless drill accident or by sliding on ice and bashing their
 head by trying to rush on the job site.

 Once you get shot at and blown up a few times in a third world shit
 hole, it really puts things into perspective.

 Your install numbers are not worth a life. If they are, well, that's
 your call and you get to live with that for better or worse.

 - Josh

 On Apr 24, 2017 9:46 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to
> hustle) in the following jobs?
> Soldier
> Life Guard
> Fireman
> EMT
> Cop
> Airline baggage loader, unloader
> Airline fuel line operator
> Personal Trainer
> Flat Rate Roofer
> Athlete
> ER Nurse
> Fast Food worker during lunch
> Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
> Ranch hand staking hay.
> Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
> Meat cutter.
>
> I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to
> jog/hustle/run.
>
> I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to
> have some spring in their step.
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
>
> Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast.  Do
> things perfectly in the least amount of time possible.  That means hustle.
> Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the
> house?  There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and
> forth.  Not saying to sprint or full on run.  Just jog, show some hustle.
> Economy of movements.  That includes tool and supply 

Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

[Paul McCall]

+1

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 11:03 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

Well this old dude can usually out work and out last most younger workers.  
Experience keeps you from simple mistakes that cause delays. For example , 
getting in roof with no charge in drill battery, forgetting right tools for 
job, climbing tower with not enough tools or mounting gear 
accessoriesDiscpline keeps you on track, focus keeps you safe, and skipping 
the bullshit chats allows you to get task completed in decent time frame.   The 
6Ps is the key ...Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance... Enough 
already, heading to Good Luck Cafe for breakfast

On Apr 24, 2017 9:52 AM, "Mathew Howard" 
> wrote:
I don't care whether or not they run, but as long as they aren't wasting time. 
There's a big difference between the guy that walks as slow as he can just so 
that he can get out of doing some work back at the office, or get some over 
time and the guy that's working out the best way to run the cable, or calling 
the office to find out if there are any service calls we need him to do while 
he's walking back to the truck.
What it really comes down to, is whether or not an employee cares about what 
kind of work they do, or if they just want to do everything in the easiest 
possible way and don't really care if what it looks like or how long it takes.

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Carl Peterson 
> wrote:
I'm in the anti-run crowd.  Thinking ahead is much more effective.  I would try 
being his helper.  Don't do anything unless he tells you to.  You can prompt 
him, i.e ask him what he needs you to do.  Take all day if you need to but make 
him think through the install.

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
I never suggested not being safe.

Here is a fragment of the post that started this thread:
“This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck heading 
home in just under two hours. But that was two guys and we ran.

Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss with this 
guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I always run to the 
truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This guy defiantly does not run 
and nothing is done with any sense of urgency. “
So who are you being the advocate for in this situation?  Me, I am 100% on the 
side of the employer here.
Sounds like some of you are on the side of telling the employer to fuck off.

The point being argued is not safety, not being abusive, it is not even 
running.  It is a slow employee with no sense of urgency.  How can anyone 
defend that?


From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 9:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

Am soldier, no longer enlisted.

No one is dying by not having internet, but they could die in a ladder accident 
or cordless drill accident or by sliding on ice and bashing their head by 
trying to rush on the job site.

Once you get shot at and blown up a few times in a third world shit hole, it 
really puts things into perspective.

Your install numbers are not worth a life. If they are, well, that's your call 
and you get to live with that for better or worse.
- Josh

On Apr 24, 2017 9:46 AM, "Chuck McCown" 
> wrote:
Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) in the 
following jobs?
Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.

I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run.

I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have some 
spring in their step.

From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast.  Do things 
perfectly in the least amount of time possible.  That means hustle.  Why would 
you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house?  There is 
absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth.  Not saying to 
sprint or full on run.  Just jog, show some hustle.  Economy of movements.  
That includes tool and supply organization.

At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day.  If you get 
more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you, probably 
give you a raise.

But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the 

Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

[Jaime Solorza]

Well this old dude can usually out work and out last most younger workers.
Experience keeps you from simple mistakes that cause delays. For example ,
getting in roof with no charge in drill battery, forgetting right tools for
job, climbing tower with not enough tools or mounting gear
accessoriesDiscpline keeps you on track, focus keeps you safe, and
skipping the bullshit chats allows you to get task completed in decent time
frame.   The 6Ps is the key ...Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor
Performance... Enough already, heading to Good Luck Cafe for breakfast

On Apr 24, 2017 9:52 AM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

> I don't care whether or not they run, but as long as they aren't wasting
> time. There's a big difference between the guy that walks as slow as he can
> just so that he can get out of doing some work back at the office, or get
> some over time and the guy that's working out the best way to run the
> cable, or calling the office to find out if there are any service calls we
> need him to do while he's walking back to the truck.
>
> What it really comes down to, is whether or not an employee cares about
> what kind of work they do, or if they just want to do everything in the
> easiest possible way and don't really care if what it looks like or how
> long it takes.
>
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Carl Peterson <
> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm in the anti-run crowd.  Thinking ahead is much more effective.  I
>> would try being his helper.  Don't do anything unless he tells you to.  You
>> can prompt him, i.e ask him what he needs you to do.  Take all day if you
>> need to but make him think through the install.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:11 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> I never suggested not being safe.
>>>
>>> Here is a fragment of the post that started this thread:
>>>
>>> “This was a hard roof, tall and not LOS and we were done in the truck
>>> heading home in just under two hours. But that was two guys and we ran.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ok so this is getting long sorry about that but I just am at a loss with
>>> this guy. I did realize on that last job I run on job sites. I always run
>>> to the truck back from the truck and I think ahead. This guy defiantly does
>>> not run and nothing is done with any sense of urgency. “
>>>
>>> So who are you being the advocate for in this situation?  Me, I am 100%
>>> on the side of the employer here.
>>> Sounds like some of you are on the side of telling the employer to fuck
>>> off.
>>>
>>> The point being argued is not safety, not being abusive, it is not even
>>> running.  It is a slow employee with no sense of urgency.  How can anyone
>>> defend that?
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 9:04 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
>>>
>>> Am soldier, no longer enlisted.
>>>
>>> No one is dying by not having internet, but they could die in a ladder
>>> accident or cordless drill accident or by sliding on ice and bashing their
>>> head by trying to rush on the job site.
>>>
>>> Once you get shot at and blown up a few times in a third world shit
>>> hole, it really puts things into perspective.
>>>
>>> Your install numbers are not worth a life. If they are, well, that's
>>> your call and you get to live with that for better or worse.
>>>
>>> - Josh
>>>
>>> On Apr 24, 2017 9:46 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
 Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to
 hustle) in the following jobs?
 Soldier
 Life Guard
 Fireman
 EMT
 Cop
 Airline baggage loader, unloader
 Airline fuel line operator
 Personal Trainer
 Flat Rate Roofer
 Athlete
 ER Nurse
 Fast Food worker during lunch
 Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
 Ranch hand staking hay.
 Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
 Meat cutter.

 I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to
 jog/hustle/run.

 I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to
 have some spring in their step.

 *From:* Chuck McCown
 *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

 Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast.  Do
 things perfectly in the least amount of time possible.  That means hustle.
 Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the
 house?  There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and
 forth.  Not saying to sprint or full on run.  Just jog, show some hustle.
 Economy of movements.  That includes tool and supply organization.

 At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day.  If
 you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you,
 probably give you a raise.

 

Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

[Paul McCall]

Like most things in life, there is a balance.  The mindset of time as a widget 
that can’t be replaced and that it represents lost opportunity (vs. a direct 
“time is money correlation”), is hard for some people to fully appreciate and 
it feels like pressure to them.  In reality, it’s the opposite.  Efficiency is 
freeing as an end result, but it does take effort to discipline yourself and 
accept that as a life commitment.

I find that teaching others from an intellectual standpoint, and having that 
just magically become a habit, is difficult.  It is better “caught than taught” 
as a good habit. The challenge is not having enough leaders to be in the field 
for someone to catch the habit from.

Paul

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 10:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

I am 40, own my company, and I still run.  Also, Mel Payne, my old boss, used 
to yell at me to run or hurry.  It bugged me, but it only worked out bad once.  
I was aligning a 4' dish on Mt. Pisgah in Mantua, and the wind was blowing 
hard.  I was loosening the adjustment bolts and trying to get it to turn a bit 
to the right.  I was hooked up and had to repel down to this specific antenna.  
He was screaming at me to hurry up, as weather was getting worse.  He said 
"just push it as hard as you can!!" So I swung back on the rope and kicked it.  
It didn't move, but my leg broke.  I don't rush my guys.

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Jay Weekley 
> wrote:
Ok, everyone over 40 that owns their company and still works in the field AND 
runs all the time when they are on the job site raise their hand.

Jerry Head wrote:
Absolutely in 8 of those jobsif I were working hard already.


On 4/24/2017 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) in the 
following jobs?
Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.
I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run.
I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have some 
spring in their step.
*From:* Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast.  Do things 
perfectly in the least amount of time possible.  That means hustle.  Why would 
you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house?  There is 
absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth.  Not saying to 
sprint or full on run.  Just jog, show some hustle.  Economy of movements.  
That includes tool and supply organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day.  If you get 
more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you, probably 
give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead of 
working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads to 
forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause you to 
end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they get 
paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks bad and often 
has problems you will have to roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted 
efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.

- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" 
> wrote:

Well then you would not be working for me.  Or UPS or FedEX or
Les Schwab or Tunex or ..
Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating
them like an adult.  You own their work output when they are on
the clock and they need to work efficiently.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle.  I don’t pay
anyone to take their time.
*From:* Timothy Steele
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to
start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house
and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what

Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

[Chuck McCown]

No offense taken.  

And I doubt I have ever told an employee to run.  
But I have told them to show some hustle when dragging their butt, and that is 
never wrong for an employer to say. 

But I would fire anyone that told me to fuck off.  
By saying that they are saying “please fire me”.

Employers that do not say things that are needed end up with a bunch of 
employees not giving a full day’s effort for a full day’s pay.   

From: Timothy Steele 
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 7:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

I've had a few of the jobs listed yes we had to hustle but even when I was in 
fast food I never had a boss disrespectful enough to have the nerve and say 
don't walk run is all I'm saying respect go's both ways with employees and 
employer you treat them like crap they treat you like crap that was the only 
point I was trying to make go ahead and take offense to that if you want but 
truth is truth I'm just the only 1 willing to say it because​ I don't need this 
list anyway it's just fun watching you all go crazy 



On Sat, Apr 29, 2017, 11:06 PM Jerry Head  wrote:

  Absolutely in 8 of those jobsif I were working hard already.

   

  On 4/24/2017 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) in 
the following jobs?
Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.

I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run.  

I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have 
some spring in their step.  

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast.  Do things 
perfectly in the least amount of time possible.  That means hustle.  Why would 
you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house?  There is 
absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth.  Not saying to 
sprint or full on run.  Just jog, show some hustle.  Economy of movements.  
That includes tool and supply organization.  

At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day.  If you 
get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you, 
probably give you a raise.  

But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead of 
working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well. 

Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads to 
forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause you to 
end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they get 
paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks bad and often 
has problems you will have to roll a truck for.

Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted 
efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.

"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."

In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.


- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Well then you would not be working for me.  Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab 
or Tunex or ..

  Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them 
like an adult.  You own their work output when they are on the clock and they 
need to work efficiently.  

  It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle.  I don’t pay anyone 
to take their time.

  From: Timothy Steele 
  Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
  If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start 
looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me to 
run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it



  On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they 
decide that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare.

I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to 
do at least 3 per day to keep their job.  Once they are doing 3, then up it to 
4 or keep them on piece rate. 

Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to 
house?  

Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

[Jay Weekley]

Oh, to be 40 again.

Jeremy wrote:
I am 40, own my company, and I still run.  Also, Mel Payne, my old 
boss, used to yell at me to run or hurry.  It bugged me, but it only 
worked out bad once.  I was aligning a 4' dish on Mt. Pisgah in 
Mantua, and the wind was blowing hard.  I was loosening the adjustment 
bolts and trying to get it to turn a bit to the right.  I was hooked 
up and had to repel down to this specific antenna.  He was screaming 
at me to hurry up, as weather was getting worse.  He said "just push 
it as hard as you can!!" So I swung back on the rope and kicked it.  
It didn't move, but my leg broke.  I don't rush my guys.


On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Jay Weekley 
> wrote:


Ok, everyone over 40 that owns their company and still works in
the field AND runs all the time when they are on the job site
raise their hand.

Jerry Head wrote:

Absolutely in 8 of those jobsif I were working hard already.


On 4/24/2017 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when
asked to hustle) in the following jobs?
Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.
I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to
jog/hustle/run.
I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an
installer to have some spring in their step.
*From:* Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go
fast.  Do things perfectly in the least amount of time
possible.  That means hustle.  Why would you chose to
slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? 
There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back

and forth.  Not saying to sprint or full on run.  Just
jog, show some hustle.  Economy of movements.  That
includes tool and supply organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you
do a day.  If you get more than the other guy and you drag
your ass, I would not can you, probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late,
BSing instead of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one
time...
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons.
Rushing leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and
tying installs to pay with cause you to end up with the
install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as they
get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work
that looks bad and often has problems you will have to
roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance
with no wasted efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.

- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote:

Well then you would not be working for me.  Or UPS or
FedEX or
Les Schwab or Tunex or ..
Treating someone like crap is a far different thing
than treating
them like an adult.  You own their work output when
they are on
the clock and they need to work efficiently.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle. 
I don’t pay

anyone to take their time.
*From:* Timothy Steele
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

If you treat your employees like crap like that there
going to
start looking for a new boss 

Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

[Chuck McCown]

hand is up

-Original Message- 
From: Jay Weekley

Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2017 8:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

Ok, everyone over 40 that owns their company and still works in the
field AND runs all the time when they are on the job site raise their hand.

Jerry Head wrote:

Absolutely in 8 of those jobsif I were working hard already.


On 4/24/2017 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle) 
in the following jobs?

Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.
I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run.
I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have 
some spring in their step.

*From:* Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast.  Do things 
perfectly in the least amount of time possible.  That means hustle.  Why 
would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house? 
There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth.  Not 
saying to sprint or full on run.  Just jog, show some hustle.  Economy of 
movements.  That includes tool and supply organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day.  If 
you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can 
you, probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead 
of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...

*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads 
to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause 
you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as 
they get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks 
bad and often has problems you will have to roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted 
efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.

"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.

- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Well then you would not be working for me.  Or UPS or FedEX or
Les Schwab or Tunex or ..
Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating
them like an adult.  You own their work output when they are on
the clock and they need to work efficiently.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle.  I don’t pay
anyone to take their time.
*From:* Timothy Steele
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to
start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house
and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what
you want then go for it


On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason
until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them
real hustle will be rare.
I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them
they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job.  Once
they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate.
Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from
truck to house?  Have them watch the first half of full metal
jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment.
I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to
tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want.
*From:* Brandon Yuchasz
*Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I
did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how
you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to
work faster?

We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer
with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties
and has a good understanding of networking, computers and
even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and
the primary job he was hired to do.

 

Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

[Jeremy]

I am 40, own my company, and I still run.  Also, Mel Payne, my old boss,
used to yell at me to run or hurry.  It bugged me, but it only worked out
bad once.  I was aligning a 4' dish on Mt. Pisgah in Mantua, and the wind
was blowing hard.  I was loosening the adjustment bolts and trying to get
it to turn a bit to the right.  I was hooked up and had to repel down to
this specific antenna.  He was screaming at me to hurry up, as weather was
getting worse.  He said "just push it as hard as you can!!" So I swung back
on the rope and kicked it.  It didn't move, but my leg broke.  I don't rush
my guys.

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Jay Weekley 
wrote:

> Ok, everyone over 40 that owns their company and still works in the field
> AND runs all the time when they are on the job site raise their hand.
>
> Jerry Head wrote:
>
>> Absolutely in 8 of those jobsif I were working hard already.
>>
>>
>> On 4/24/2017 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>>> Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle)
>>> in the following jobs?
>>> Soldier
>>> Life Guard
>>> Fireman
>>> EMT
>>> Cop
>>> Airline baggage loader, unloader
>>> Airline fuel line operator
>>> Personal Trainer
>>> Flat Rate Roofer
>>> Athlete
>>> ER Nurse
>>> Fast Food worker during lunch
>>> Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
>>> Ranch hand staking hay.
>>> Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
>>> Meat cutter.
>>> I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run.
>>> I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have
>>> some spring in their step.
>>> *From:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
>>> Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast.  Do
>>> things perfectly in the least amount of time possible.  That means hustle.
>>> Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the
>>> house?  There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and
>>> forth.  Not saying to sprint or full on run.  Just jog, show some hustle.
>>> Economy of movements.  That includes tool and supply organization.
>>> At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day.  If
>>> you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you,
>>> probably give you a raise.
>>> But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead
>>> of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
>>> To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
>>> Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads
>>> to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause
>>> you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as
>>> they get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks
>>> bad and often has problems you will have to roll a truck for.
>>> Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted
>>> efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
>>> "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
>>> In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.
>>>
>>> - Josh
>>> On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Well then you would not be working for me.  Or UPS or FedEX or
>>> Les Schwab or Tunex or ..
>>> Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating
>>> them like an adult.  You own their work output when they are on
>>> the clock and they need to work efficiently.
>>> It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle.  I don’t pay
>>> anyone to take their time.
>>> *From:* Timothy Steele
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
>>>
>>> If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to
>>> start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house
>>> and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what
>>> you want then go for it
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason
>>> until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them
>>> real hustle will be rare.
>>> I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them
>>> they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job.  Once
>>> they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate.
>>> Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from
>>> truck to house?  Have them watch the first half of full metal
>>> jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment.
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

[Jay Weekley]

Ok, everyone over 40 that owns their company and still works in the 
field AND runs all the time when they are on the job site raise their hand.


Jerry Head wrote:

Absolutely in 8 of those jobsif I were working hard already.


On 4/24/2017 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to 
hustle) in the following jobs?

Soldier
Life Guard
Fireman
EMT
Cop
Airline baggage loader, unloader
Airline fuel line operator
Personal Trainer
Flat Rate Roofer
Athlete
ER Nurse
Fast Food worker during lunch
Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
Ranch hand staking hay.
Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
Meat cutter.
I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run.
I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to 
have some spring in their step.

*From:* Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast.  Do 
things perfectly in the least amount of time possible.  That means 
hustle.  Why would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the 
truck and the house?  There is absolutely no justification for not 
jogging back and forth.  Not saying to sprint or full on run.  Just 
jog, show some hustle.  Economy of movements.  That includes tool and 
supply organization.
At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day.  
If you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not 
can you, probably give you a raise.
But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing 
instead of working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...

*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing 
leads to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay 
with cause you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV 
subcontractors do, as they get paid per room/job as well. It's 
absolutely shit work that looks bad and often has problems you will 
have to roll a truck for.
Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted 
efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.

"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.

- Josh
On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Well then you would not be working for me.  Or UPS or FedEX or
Les Schwab or Tunex or ..
Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating
them like an adult.  You own their work output when they are on
the clock and they need to work efficiently.
It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle.  I don’t pay
anyone to take their time.
*From:* Timothy Steele
*Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to
start looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house
and you told me to run I would quit on the spot if that's what
you want then go for it


On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason
until they decide that it might benefit them, and even them
real hustle will be rare.
I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them
they have to do at least 3 per day to keep their job.  Once
they are doing 3, then up it to 4 or keep them on piece rate.
Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from
truck to house?  Have them watch the first half of full metal
jacket and give them a bit of drill sergeant treatment.
I believe in “management by telling” you actually have to
tell them, in simple and clear terms exactly what you want.
*From:* Brandon Yuchasz
*Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I
did anyway sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how
you guys go about trying to teach / train a new installer to
work faster?

We have a guy right now that was hired to be an installer
with other duties as assigned. He is good at the other duties
and has a good understanding of networking, computers and
even RF. The problem is that he is very slow on installs and
the primary job he was hired to do.

I spent quite a bit of time with him last week trying to
figure out where the speed issues were coming from. So I took
him on site surveys ahead 

Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.

[Timothy Steele]

I've had a few of the jobs listed yes we had to hustle but even when I was
in fast food I never had a boss disrespectful enough to have the nerve and
say don't walk run is all I'm saying respect go's both ways with employees
and employer you treat them like crap they treat you like crap that was the
only point I was trying to make go ahead and take offense to that if you
want but truth is truth I'm just the only 1 willing to say it because​ I
don't need this list anyway it's just fun watching you all go crazy

On Sat, Apr 29, 2017, 11:06 PM Jerry Head  wrote:

> Absolutely in 8 of those jobsif I were working hard already.
>
>
>
> On 4/24/2017 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Can you imagine telling your employer to fuck off (when asked to hustle)
> in the following jobs?
> Soldier
> Life Guard
> Fireman
> EMT
> Cop
> Airline baggage loader, unloader
> Airline fuel line operator
> Personal Trainer
> Flat Rate Roofer
> Athlete
> ER Nurse
> Fast Food worker during lunch
> Package sorter/truck loader UPS (I had this job once)
> Ranch hand staking hay.
> Subway sandwich maker during lunch.
> Meat cutter.
>
> I could be here all day listing jobs that require you to jog/hustle/run.
>
> I do not think it is in any way unreasonable to ask an installer to have
> some spring in their step.
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:31 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
>
> Not saying to rush for the sake of rushing, saying to go fast.  Do things
> perfectly in the least amount of time possible.  That means hustle.  Why
> would you chose to slowly drag your ass between the truck and the house?
> There is absolutely no justification for not jogging back and forth.  Not
> saying to sprint or full on run.  Just jog, show some hustle.  Economy of
> movements.  That includes tool and supply organization.
>
> At the end of the day it is now many perfect installs you do a day.  If
> you get more than the other guy and you drag your ass, I would not can you,
> probably give you a raise.
>
> But if you were dragging your ass, leaving the shop late, BSing instead of
> working I would tell you to ‘hustle” one time...
>
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:24 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
>
> To tell the truth, I'd be telling you to fuck off as well.
>
> Having an employee run is a liability for several reasons. Rushing leads
> to forgotten things and shoddy work, and tying installs to pay with cause
> you to end up with the install quality that DirecTV subcontractors do, as
> they get paid per room/job as well. It's absolutely shit work that looks
> bad and often has problems you will have to roll a truck for.
>
> Slow and smooth, measured work, thought out in advance with no wasted
> efficiency. THAT will be fast and quality work.
>
> "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
>
> In the end, it's your business. I'm just some guy.
>
> - Josh
>
> On Apr 24, 2017 8:57 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
> Well then you would not be working for me.  Or UPS or FedEX or Les Schwab
> or Tunex or ..
>
> Treating someone like crap is a far different thing than treating them
> like an adult.  You own their work output when they are on the clock and
> they need to work efficiently.
>
> It is not unreasonable at all to expect some hustle.  I don’t pay anyone
> to take their time.
>
>
> *From:* Timothy Steele
> *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 7:53 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
>
> If you treat your employees like crap like that there going to start
> looking for a new boss I know if I was walking to the house and you told me
> to run I would quit on the spot if that's what you want then go for it
>
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017, 9:43 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> You cannot expect a younger person to run for any reason until they decide
>> that it might benefit them, and even them real hustle will be rare.
>>
>> I would put them on piece rate or daily rate and tell them they have to
>> do at least 3 per day to keep their job.  Once they are doing 3, then up it
>> to 4 or keep them on piece rate.
>>
>> Have you actually said “RUN!” when they were walking from truck to
>> house?  Have them watch the first half of full metal jacket and give them a
>> bit of drill sergeant treatment.
>>
>> I believe in “management by telling”  you actually have to tell them, in
>> simple and clear terms exactly what you want.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Brandon Yuchasz
>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 5:37 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] installer hire / training process.
>>
>> I was going to type a long PC type post about this (which I did anyway
>> sorry) . But instead I am going to just ask how you guys go about trying to
>> teach / train a new installer to work faster?
>>
>>
>>
>> We have a guy right 

Re: [AFMUG] "blowing conduit"

[Paul McCall]

No permit needed for private parking lot, according to our county building 
dept.  The asphalt guys insist it will be done right, properly compacted, etc.

My first time with this so of course we don’t have the experience to see if 
that is true. I do see some similar crossing patches that were done a few years 
and they look “normal”.

Maybe this guy knows what he is doing?

Time will tell

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 8:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "blowing conduit"

Plus you have to register it with Miss Dig (or equivalent). Permit also?
Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


On Apr 28, 2017, at 12:53 PM, Chris Fabien 
> wrote:
If these are private roads and short crossings look into a pneumatic missile to 
cross the roads. Maybe that's the "blowing" he's talking about? I would under 
no circumstances cut the asphalt, I'm not sure what the asphalt dude would cost 
to repair it but it'll never be the same, especially if you trench through it, 
likely to have some settling after it's patched and now it turns into a pothole 
and has to get fixed again.

There's several ways to bore under roads depending on conditions. HDD 
(directional boring) as mentioned, pneumatic missile, and if these are only 
~20ft wide roads you could even probably do it with a compacting boring setup 
on a small cable plow machine.

[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]

Virus-free. 
www.avast.com


On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Paul McCall 
> wrote:
We are finalizing plans to put fiber throughout a business park and there 9 
locations where we are planning on crossing private “roads” to connect the 
builldings with conduit (aerial not an option).  Its asphalt in 8 of the 9 
spots, and the plan was to cut the asphalt (pretty sure our ditchwitch will go 
right through it) go down about 36” fill it in and have the local “asphalt 
dude” seal it up.

I met with the “superintendent” for the park and he said “Why don’t you just 
blow the conduit in?”  I laughed at first but he insisted it’s a “thing”.  Says 
AT does it all the time.   My only thought is directional boring, and he 
insisted No, that they “blow it in”.   Of course I assume directional boring 
costs (sub contracting) would cost be a lot more than just cutting through the 
asphalt, thus my plan.

I don’t want to chase my tail so am seeking enlightenment.

“blowing in conduit”  ???

Paul 

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com