Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I second the motion.

Not complaining, just a note. Can the reply-to be changed to just have AF and 
not the original sender as well?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



- Original Message -

From: "Paul McCall via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 7:43:02 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

Guys,

We installed some updates in the middle of the night to fix the FROM problem. 
There a couple tweaks that will be done today. My tech on the project is now 
sleeping as we worked during the night.

PLEASE BE PATIENT.

Paul McCall, Pres.
PDMNet / Florida Broadband
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800 office
772-473-0352 cell
www.pdmnet.com
pa...@pdmnet.net

Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Same way it's always been done.
From = original sender
Reply-to = list

That way when I click reply, you won't get the message twice...just like 
you're about to get this one twice.



I assume the issue then is how do yo indicate the original sender's e-mail
address?

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Mike Hammett via Af  wrote:


Not complaining, just a note. Can the reply-to be changed to just have AF
and not the original sender as well?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



- Original Message -

From: "Paul McCall via Af" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 7:43:02 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

Guys,

We installed some updates in the middle of the night to fix the FROM
problem. There a couple tweaks that will be done today. My tech on the
project is now sleeping as we worked during the night.

PLEASE BE PATIENT.

Paul McCall, Pres.
PDMNet / Florida Broadband
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800 office
772-473-0352 cell
www.pdmnet.com
pa...@pdmnet.net

[AFMUG] ePMP AP mounting

[Adam Moffett via Af]

When I bought a 2.4 ePMP AP awhile ago, the Cambium sector antennas were 
out of stock, so I ended up buying a KP Performance sector antenna on 
somebody's recommendation.  Then that project got shelved for 3 
monthsand I wish I had known that would happen because I would have 
just waited for the Cambium sector.


Here's my problem with the 3rd party antenna:  What do you mount the AP 
too?  It's clearly designed to mount to the Cambium sector and not 
really to anything else.


And then what do you do with the little magnetic GPS antenna?  It fits 
into a pocket on the Cambium sector antenna that I don't have. Is it 
even weatherproof on its own?

[AFMUG] MT Simple Queues

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Has anybody had trouble with Mikrotik queues in 6.x?
Specifically I'm seeing traffic limited to substantially less than the 
configured max-limit.  I set 20M and get 15M, or I set 30M and actually 
get 20M, and so forth.  I can disable the simple queue and get 140+Meg.  
I found an MT forum post complaining of the same problem, but there was 
no workaround or solution posted.  I'm wondering if somebody here 
already saw this and figured it out.

Re: [AFMUG] MT Simple Queues

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Do you remember what the fix was?  The list archives from before this 
month are currently missing.



yes there is a problem we had a previous thread about a year ago started by me 
with a fix in it, had to change a setting then it worked way better

Sent from my iPhone

Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110


On Sep 16, 2014, at 5:26 PM, Adam Moffett via Af  wrote:

Has anybody had trouble with Mikrotik queues in 6.x?
Specifically I'm seeing traffic limited to substantially less than the 
configured max-limit.  I set 20M and get 15M, or I set 30M and actually get 
20M, and so forth.  I can disable the simple queue and get 140+Meg.  I found an 
MT forum post complaining of the same problem, but there was no workaround or 
solution posted.  I'm wondering if somebody here already saw this and figured 
it out.

Re: [AFMUG] MT Simple Queues

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Default PFIFO 50 and packets.  I've fiddled with making it larger and 
smaller and that doesn't seem to actually affect the speed problem.




What queue type?  Size?  Burst?
If you are using default-small still set to PFIFO and 10 packets, that 
might explain it.


-Original Message----- From: Adam Moffett via Af
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 4:26 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] MT Simple Queues

Has anybody had trouble with Mikrotik queues in 6.x?
Specifically I'm seeing traffic limited to substantially less than the
configured max-limit.  I set 20M and get 15M, or I set 30M and actually
get 20M, and so forth.  I can disable the simple queue and get 140+Meg.
I found an MT forum post complaining of the same problem, but there was
no workaround or solution posted.  I'm wondering if somebody here
already saw this and figured it out.

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP AP mounting

[Adam Moffett via Af]

thanks

You can buy a Cambium connectorized radio mount that you could probably work 
with for your situation

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett via Af
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 4:31 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] ePMP AP mounting

When I bought a 2.4 ePMP AP awhile ago, the Cambium sector antennas were out of 
stock, so I ended up buying a KP Performance sector antenna on somebody's 
recommendation.  Then that project got shelved for 3 monthsand I wish I had 
known that would happen because I would have just waited for the Cambium sector.

Here's my problem with the 3rd party antenna:  What do you mount the AP too?  
It's clearly designed to mount to the Cambium sector and not really to anything 
else.

And then what do you do with the little magnetic GPS antenna?  It fits into a 
pocket on the Cambium sector antenna that I don't have. Is it even weatherproof 
on its own?

Re: [AFMUG] MT Simple Queues

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Wownot enough coffee yet.
*Default PFIFO and size set to 50 packets.   Which is the default for an 
ethernet port.

Default PFIFO 50 and packets

Re: [AFMUG] MT Simple Queues

[Adam Moffett via Af]

This didn't jump out at me yesterday, but some people are saying to 
create a PCQ queue with the "rate" option set to the target speed, and 
then use that Queue type in your simple Queues.


This does work.  I wonder why the old simple way doesn't behave like it 
used to.





Do you remember what the fix was?  The list archives from before this 
month are currently missing.


yes there is a problem we had a previous thread about a year ago 
started by me with a fix in it, had to change a setting then it 
worked way better


Sent from my iPhone

Kurt Fankhauser
Wavelinc Communications
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
http://www.wavelinc.com
tel. 419-562-6405
fax. 419-617-0110


On Sep 16, 2014, at 5:26 PM, Adam Moffett via Af  wrote:

Has anybody had trouble with Mikrotik queues in 6.x?
Specifically I'm seeing traffic limited to substantially less than 
the configured max-limit.  I set 20M and get 15M, or I set 30M and 
actually get 20M, and so forth.  I can disable the simple queue and 
get 140+Meg.  I found an MT forum post complaining of the same 
problem, but there was no workaround or solution posted.  I'm 
wondering if somebody here already saw this and figured it out.

Re: [AFMUG] LIST: Overnight adjustments

[Adam Moffett via Af]

How often do you guys go back and find something from your 40-90 gigs of 
email?  When you did need something, how successful were you at finding 
it?  I gave up trying to keep everything after realizing that I almost 
never wanted anything older than 6 months, and if I did then it took an 
inordinate amount of effort to find it.


I sort important things into foldersif I didn't sort it then it 
probably wasn't important. Everything in my inbox older than 6 months 
gets deleted.





On Wed September 17 2014 08:55, Chuck McCown via Af wrote:

Windows Live Mail.  It was what replaced Outlook Express.
I like it for most things.  But nothing is very good at gracefully handling
my 40 GB mail archive.


LOL, that has been my issue for a few years now.  Have just over 92 GB
in my Kmail, close to 800 folders (many nested) and the _only_ mail
agent I have found that deals with it is Kmail (Linux KDE).

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Force 100 beefy

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Can you tell what type of finish is on the u-bolts and nuts?  It looks 
too shiny for galvanized.  Do they (the nuts and bolts) respond to magnets?



   We received our first shipment of ePMP Force 100's yesterday.  Pretty
beefy at 10 lbs.  Quite a curious angle on the feed horn N-type connections.
It would lead you to believe the antenna system is dual slant.  All the
specs say H&V.

Re: [AFMUG] TEST - IGNORE

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Test messages here never get ignored. Expect at least 4 replies saying 
whether you passed or failed and possibly a hijack that turns the test 
thread into some other conversation.

(maybe this one is the hijack)



Paul McCall, Pres.
PDMNet / Florida Broadband
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800 office
772-473-0352 cell
www.pdmnet.com
pa...@pdmnet.net

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP Force 100 beefy

[Adam Moffett via Af]

On this topic:

I'll be at their roadshow in Albany tomorrow.  If anybody has ePMP 
questions that they need answered, I'll put them on my list and button 
hole somebody from Cambium into answering them.


Is that 2.4 or 5GHz? A couple weeks ago someone asked why the 2.4 AP 
sector is slant and the integrated SMs are H/V. Cambium responded with 
an explanation, something about the SM detecting phases and doing its 
thing.


Definitely looks like a Laird/Pac feed design. That has to be a pain 
to weather seal.


When they get these things to sync with Canopy and get the PTP latency 
down, then I'll buy some.


On 9/17/2014 9:22 AM, Greg Osborn via Af wrote:

   We received our first shipment of ePMP Force 100's yesterday.  Pretty
beefy at 10 lbs.  Quite a curious angle on the feed horn N-type 
connections.

It would lead you to believe the antenna system is dual slant. All the
specs say H&V.

Re: [AFMUG] battery tester

[Adam Moffett via Af]

On the bench I've charged them fully, measured the voltage, then a put a 
known load on them for a set period of time and measured the voltage 
afterward.  Same idea.  Like you saidcouldn't find an appropriate 
tester.



signature
Telemetry.  Just watch the slope of the discharge voltage at night.  I 
have tried to use impedance meters several times at different 
companies and cannot get results that predict failures.
If you have a battery that should last several days, disconnect the 
solar panels and watch the telemetry.

*From:* Randy Cosby via Af 
*Sent:* Thursday, September 18, 2014 1:06 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] battery tester
Does anyone have a recommended battery tester for AGM and Gel 
batteries at solar sites?  I have batteries from 100AH to 225AH.  Most 
of the automotive models seem to be concerned with cold cranking amps, 
pretty irrelevant for us.




--

Randy Cosby
InfoWest, Inc
435-674-0165 x 2010
infowest.com 


This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc
and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may
contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information.

Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contactrco...@infowest.com  by reply email and destroy
the original message, all attachments and copies.

Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Can you tell us which platforms will get these features?  PMP100 and up, 
or just the 430/450?



You'll have to wait for WISPAPALOOZA for more details. :)

*From:*Af 
[mailto:af-bounces+aaron.schneider=cambiumnetworks@afmug.com] *On 
Behalf Of *George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af

*Sent:* Thursday, September 18, 2014 9:57 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

OK, so clarify the option 66 URL part. What makes sense to me is a 
single option 66 statement on the DHCP server like I said below. The 
SM will fill in its ESN/MAC as the file name to pull from the HTTP or 
TFTP server. This is how most VoIP handset/ATA provisioning works. On 
the PBX or switch, your station config files would reside in some 
directory and the handset would request 001122334455.cfg or 
00-11-22-33-44-55.cfg. This is exactly how zero-touch auto-provision 
works, at least with the VoIP crap I've messed with. What I'm looking 
for is how to tie X device to X customer in say a 
billing/support/provisioning system. And if the SM dies, then rename 
the file with the new ESN.


So if this is not the way the option 66 mechanism will function, then 
yeah, RADIUS VSA for the URL will be the only other way. I think it 
would be easier to just do RADIUS attributes for all of the config, 
but we've had that discussion before.


Off my rocker now? :)

On 9/18/2014 8:46 PM, Aaron Schneider via Af wrote:

You are securely attached to your rocker and very comfortable.

That's pretty much how it will go but the dhcp server will provide
the filename via option66 string within the url itself.

Another option would be radius profiles with config file url
delivered via a VSA. �Not sure that will get into first release.
But we are working on it.

You are correct on ICC operation, once a non default CC config is
in place, ICC will never be used on SM even if it is left enabled.
�But you can very easily set ICC to disabled in the config file.

Aaron

 Original message 

From: "George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af"

Date:09/18/2014 6:48 PM (GMT-06:00)

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

I'm guessing it's going to work like this: 13.3 SM registers via
ICC. It switches on DHCP and looks for Option 66. Then it contacts
the HTTP/TFTP server with a request string like
http:///$.cfg just like it works with IP phones
and things like that.

ICC doesn't do random stupid things anymore. That was with v11.1.
Once the SM is configured with color codes other than CC1=0 and
the reset zero and disabled, ICC is effectively disabled.

The second part is, if your default SM registered to my AP via
ICC, I wouldn't have a config file for its ESN to send it. Well,
maybe I could, but why.

I'm sure there's always a way for things to go wrong. But I need a
much faster and automated way to do provisioning. I'd like to give
the guys a basic template that they keep on their field PCs to
load into new radios to set up things like default QoS, protocol
filters, admin password, etc. RADIUS handles only basic stuff like
QoS and VLAN.

Maybe I'm completely off my rocker here.

On 9/18/2014 6:21 PM, That One Guy via Af wrote:

so if a device connects to icc, it will turn on dhcp client?
�so if we are using this, we will want to remember to have
part of the dump config be to disable ICC or if a deployed
unit happenned to hit ICC on a different AP, as has been the
case in the past, it will become defaulted, or at least
defaulted to the configured default configuration? This could
be problematic, stranding a subscriber if a competitor is also
running option 66 via ICC couldnt it? or is there a way to
mitigate that?

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 6:04 PM, George Skorup (Cyber
Broadcasting) via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

That is freakin awesome! I think Matt said something about a
RADIUS VSA option too. RADIUS and DHCP option 66. Both are
good with me.



On 9/18/2014 4:41 PM, Aaron Schneider via Af wrote:

Hi George -

I know this was a long time ago (and has been an even longer
time coming), but attached is what I sent after AF2014.

What we have now is the file format, it will be JSON based and
there will be a published spec.� It will also work with DHCP
Option 66.� For Zero Touch Config type of operation, we are
leveraging the ICC feature in that once a radio is on 13.3, if
a radio registers via ICC, it will turn on DHCP and request
Option 66.� That option can be populated with a URL to the
config file (HTTP or TFTP) that will be retrieved and applied
and if a reboot is required, the reboot will be applied.�
Once the SM comes back if 

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP AP mounting

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I found the Cambium mount that Paul McCall mentioned. It was like $9.
Thanks though.

Here is your fix.

http://www.rfelements.com/en/products/brackets/easybracket-for-epmp/

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+gregwosborn=gmail@afmug.com] On Behalf Of
Jerry Head via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:28 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP AP mounting

My 2.4 ePMP Cambium sectors do not have the pocket for the GPS puck.
The KP antennas were supposed to come with a box for the radio which
"sticks" to the back of the sector, a little ghetto I know.

On 9/16/2014 3:30 PM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:

When I bought a 2.4 ePMP AP awhile ago, the Cambium sector antennas
were out of stock, so I ended up buying a KP Performance sector
antenna on somebody's recommendation.  Then that project got shelved
for 3 monthsand I wish I had known that would happen because I
would have just waited for the Cambium sector.

Here's my problem with the 3rd party antenna:  What do you mount the
AP too?  It's clearly designed to mount to the Cambium sector and not
really to anything else.

And then what do you do with the little magnetic GPS antenna?  It fits
into a pocket on the Cambium sector antenna that I don't have. Is it
even weatherproof on its own?

Re: [AFMUG] ePmp real world SM capacity

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I can't comment on what we're seeing because I don't have much to see.
At the ePMP tour in Albany yesterday they said they'd tested with up to 
120 SM's, but they said 50-60 was a safer number.  They didn't know of 
anyone who had that many on an AP yet.


I've spent the last hour going through search results on the list to  
find real world feedback on how many clients an ePMP will hold. Anyone 
want to chime in what they're seeing and what kind of speeds you offer?


Andy Trimmell

System Engineer

Precision Data Solutions, LLC

Mooresville, IN 46158

317-831-3000 ext 211

www.pdsconnect.me

Re: [AFMUG] 477 for dummys

[Adam Moffett via Af]

They want census blocks where you have service deployed, and then census 
tracts where actual subscribers are.  The latter can still come out of 
your billing system.


I'm sure how 2-year old friendly you can get.

I downloaded census block shape files (.shp) from the census web site.  
Imported those into Manifold GIS.


I generated coverage maps in Radiomobile.  Imported the images into 
Manifold GIS.  Then altered the projection so the image would match 
actual geography (you basically take some numbers from the KML file and 
do a little non-difficult math).


Then I used the auto tracing tool in Manifold to create polygons that 
cover the image generated by radio mobile...you have to use a solid 
color overlay in Radiomobile for this, not a heatmap.


Then I did a transform to create a new drawing showing the census blocks 
that intersect the radio coverage polygons.  Lather, rinse, and repeat 
for each type of coverage that might matter.


At this point I've got tables of census blocks for each type of radio 
coverage.  I'm only supposed to report each block once (unless it's 
served under a different company name, or with a different technology, 
since these are all fixed wireless I only report them once).  To get one 
table where only the highest available speed is reported, I imported the 
various tables into MySQL using the census block as the primary key and 
imported them in order of speed from lowest to highest.


Then I exported the resulting table into a csv that I can upload to the FCC.

It takes longer to learn all these steps than it took me to explain it.  
It's also pretty time consuming and tedious.  It's totally do-able if 
you have a few hundred bucks to spend on software and a number of days 
to spend on figuring it all out.  Now that's all figured out, I could 
repeat the process with your coverage overlays for a nominal fee :)



The previous 477 filing was confusing enough to me. I submittted data that
was generated for me from our billing system without actually knowing what
exactly it was or how to verify it was accurate.
Now with the new system, Im completely lost. Im afraid of the feds and
their black helicopters that will sweep in and take my children to gitmo
(not all that concerned about the old lady, I can find somebody else to run
the vaccum)

Can somebody please explain to me like im a two year old what all the steps
are and the details of what the information is they want. And maybe even a
simpletons description of how to obtain it accurately?

As I understand it the gist is to provide the FCC with subscribership
information so they can value the census blocks regarding current
penetration and subscribership. I assume the compare the combined
subscriber-ship with census data to calculate what percentage of citizens
are being served in each block? But as I understand it, if no voice service
is offered, or subscribed to, the block is considered unserved?

If we dont have our filing in by the Oct 1 deadline, they will firebomb a
village in africa?

Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Yeah, it doesn't take a genius to see which way the wind is blowing.  I 
assume at some point the pmp100 will get a feature freezeI'm hoping 
it's not yet :)

Inquiring minds want to know...

Of the thousands SM's that we have in the air right now, only a hand full are 
430/450's.
Don't get me wrong, if this isn't going to be on PMP100 this is still good 
news, but of limited use to us right now.

Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

[Adam Moffett via Af]

WellI heard an offhand comment at the ePMP tour that development for 
the 100 was going to stop.  I'm just hoping it hasn't already :)


Do you really expect it on 100 and 430?  I would be very surprised.  
But I guess unexpected good stuff happens.  Not to me, though.  I have 
been accused of being a pessimist, but if that's true, shouldn't I be 
pleasantly surprised all the time?



-Original Message- From: Christopher Tyler via Af
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 10:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

Inquiring minds want to know...

Of the thousands SM's that we have in the air right now, only a hand 
full are 430/450's.
Don't get me wrong, if this isn't going to be on PMP100 this is still 
good news, but of limited use to us right now.

Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

[Adam Moffett via Af]

/me cries softly at the impending death of his PMP100.

13.3 is currently only planned for PMP450/430 and PTP450/230, as is 
13.2.   PMP/PTP100 were brought up in line with 13.1.3 but won't be 
getting 13.2 or 13.3 at this point.


*From:*Af 
[mailto:af-bounces+aaron.schneider=cambiumnetworks@afmug.com] *On 
Behalf Of *Adam Moffett via Af

*Sent:* Friday, September 19, 2014 8:00 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

Can you tell us which platforms will get these features?  PMP100 and 
up, or just the 430/450?


You'll have to wait for WISPAPALOOZA for more details. :)

*From:*Af
[mailto:af-bounces+aaron.schneider=cambiumnetworks@afmug.com]
*On Behalf Of *George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, September 18, 2014 9:57 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

OK, so clarify the option 66 URL part. What makes sense to me is a
single option 66 statement on the DHCP server like I said below.
The SM will fill in its ESN/MAC as the file name to pull from the
HTTP or TFTP server. This is how most VoIP handset/ATA
provisioning works. On the PBX or switch, your station config
files would reside in some directory and the handset would request
001122334455.cfg or 00-11-22-33-44-55.cfg. This is exactly how
zero-touch auto-provision works, at least with the VoIP crap I've
messed with. What I'm looking for is how to tie X device to X
customer in say a billing/support/provisioning system. And if the
SM dies, then rename the file with the new ESN.

So if this is not the way the option 66 mechanism will function,
then yeah, RADIUS VSA for the URL will be the only other way. I
think it would be easier to just do RADIUS attributes for all of
the config, but we've had that discussion before.

Off my rocker now? :)

On 9/18/2014 8:46 PM, Aaron Schneider via Af wrote:

You are securely attached to your rocker and very comfortable.

That's pretty much how it will go but the dhcp server will
provide the filename via option66 string within the url itself.

Another option would be radius profiles with config file url
delivered via a VSA. �Not sure that will get into first
release. But we are working on it.

You are correct on ICC operation, once a non default CC config
is in place, ICC will never be used on SM even if it is left
enabled. �But you can very easily set ICC to disabled in the
config file.

Aaron

 Original message 

From: "George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af"

Date:09/18/2014 6:48 PM (GMT-06:00)

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

I'm guessing it's going to work like this: 13.3 SM registers
via ICC. It switches on DHCP and looks for Option 66. Then it
contacts the HTTP/TFTP server with a request string like
http:///$.cfg just like it works with IP
phones and things like that.

ICC doesn't do random stupid things anymore. That was with
v11.1. Once the SM is configured with color codes other than
CC1=0 and the reset zero and disabled, ICC is effectively
disabled.

The second part is, if your default SM registered to my AP via
ICC, I wouldn't have a config file for its ESN to send it.
Well, maybe I could, but why.

I'm sure there's always a way for things to go wrong. But I
need a much faster and automated way to do provisioning. I'd
like to give the guys a basic template that they keep on their
field PCs to load into new radios to set up things like
default QoS, protocol filters, admin password, etc. RADIUS
handles only basic stuff like QoS and VLAN.

Maybe I'm completely off my rocker here.

On 9/18/2014 6:21 PM, That One Guy via Af wrote:

so if a device connects to icc, it will turn on dhcp
client? �so if we are using this, we will want to
remember to have part of the dump config be to disable ICC
or if a deployed unit happenned to hit ICC on a different
AP, as has been the case in the past, it will become
defaulted, or at least defaulted to the configured default
configuration? This could be problematic, stranding a
subscriber if a competitor is also running option 66 via
ICC couldnt it? or is there a way to mitigate that?

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 6:04 PM, George Skorup (Cyber
Broadcasting) via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>>
wrote:

That is freakin awesome! I think Matt said something about
a RADIUS VSA option too. RADIUS

Re: [AFMUG] ePMP AP mounting

[Adam Moffett via Af]

--- [ Adam Moffett  wrote ]:
---

Speaking of that, it arrived today.
It's solid stainless steel.  For $9 I expected plastic.



I found the Cambium mount that Paul McCall mentioned. It was like $9.
Thanks though.

Here is your fix.

http://www.rfelements.com/en/products/brackets/easybracket-for-epmp/

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+gregwosborn=gmail@afmug.com] On 
Behalf Of

Jerry Head via Af
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:28 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP AP mounting

My 2.4 ePMP Cambium sectors do not have the pocket for the GPS puck.
The KP antennas were supposed to come with a box for the radio which
"sticks" to the back of the sector, a little ghetto I know.

On 9/16/2014 3:30 PM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:

When I bought a 2.4 ePMP AP awhile ago, the Cambium sector antennas
were out of stock, so I ended up buying a KP Performance sector
antenna on somebody's recommendation.  Then that project got shelved
for 3 monthsand I wish I had known that would happen because I
would have just waited for the Cambium sector.

Here's my problem with the 3rd party antenna:  What do you mount the
AP too?  It's clearly designed to mount to the Cambium sector and not
really to anything else.

And then what do you do with the little magnetic GPS antenna? It fits
into a pocket on the Cambium sector antenna that I don't have. Is it
even weatherproof on its own?

Re: [AFMUG] Quick Poll: 477 Deployment Report

[Adam Moffett via Af]

B

On 9/19/2014 4:23 PM, Randy Cosby via Af wrote:

I'm curious how everyone is recording on their deployment report.

A: I am reporting every census block where I have a customer
B: I am reporting every census block that I can cover based on my RF 
coverage maps

C: Not yet decided




--
signature
Randy Cosby
InfoWest, Inc
435-674-0165 x 2010
infowest.com 


This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc
and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may
contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information.

Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contactrco...@infowest.com  by reply email and destroy
the original message, all attachments and copies.

Re: [AFMUG] Quick Poll: 477 Deployment Report

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Um yeah agreed.  I have 13,000 census blocks in my submission.  Not hand 
filtering that.
I take solace in the fact that in the rural areas we're concerned about 
getting CAF funding Time Warner's reported coverage is more egregiously 
wrong than mine. :)



I filed with A, but now have data in hand for B.   My RF coverage 
(based on radiomobile) has 4X as many blocks as I reported with A.   I 
could still go back and amend the report.


I would love to go hand-groom the list... but over 6800 blocks is a 
bit much unless I can do it visually.




On 9/19/2014 2:45 PM, Cameron Crum via Af wrote:
Line of sight viewsheds (which consider clutter) might be your better 
choice then instead of coverage maps. At least you know with LOS that 
you have a greater chance of providing service than with coverage 
maps as they tend to be rather subjective depending on what you 
consider acceptable "coverage" signal. I looked at both "subscriber 
only" blocks and blocks with simple "reasonable" radius from a tower 
for a couple of our wisps. The difference was significant. Since it 
could potentially mean that my customers get their networks overbuilt 
with fed money, I tend to lean towards the radius or "coverage plot" 
method which produces more blocks.


On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af > wrote:


Reluctantly B.  The devil on one shoulder is still telling me A.
Actually, I am starting from A and manually approving every
addition from B.  It’s a lot of work and I probably won’t do it
every 6 months, but I’m asking in each case am I sure that I
could reach at least part of that census block, and if so, why
don’t I have any customers there yet?  I am more inclined to go
with RF coverage in new areas I’ve just built into.  If I’ve been
there 10 years and don’t have any customers in that block, maybe
I can’t cover it.  In some cases I find there are zero buildings
in the block, so if Frontier wants to get CAF money to provide
service there, more power to them.
I am probably being paranoid, but if I ever get challenged on
this, I want to have my ducks in a row.  Also I want to figure
out a way, even if I pay Brian or something, to turn this into a
coverage map and/or Google Earth overlay and use that as our
coverage map instead of RF coverage plots which I find lacking.
For some WISPs, this might be a good sales/marketing exercise. 
What are all the blocks where we have RF coverage but zero

customers?  Why no customers?  Nobody lives there?  Competitor
outguns me there?  Or just no word-of-mouth.  If so, maybe need
to send some postcards or knock on doors.
It should be possible to pull census statistics for each block to
see how many housing units and people the gov’t thinks are in
that block.  If there are 10 houses and 30 people in a block and
none of them are my customers, why not?
*From:* Randy Cosby via Af 
*Sent:* Friday, September 19, 2014 3:23 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Quick Poll: 477 Deployment Report
I'm curious how everyone is recording on their deployment report.

A: I am reporting every census block where I have a customer
B: I am reporting every census block that I can cover based on my
RF coverage maps
C: Not yet decided




-- 


Randy Cosby
InfoWest, Inc
435-674-0165  x 2010
infowest.com 


This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc
and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may
contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information.

Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contactrco...@infowest.com    by reply email 
and destroy
the original message, all attachments and copies.




--
signature
Randy Cosby
InfoWest, Inc
435-674-0165 x 2010
infowest.com 


This e-mail message contains information from InfoWest, Inc
and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may
contain privileged, proprietary or confidential information.

Unauthorized use, distribution, review or disclosure is
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contactrco...@infowest.com  by reply email and destroy
the original message, all attachments and copies.

Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium

[Adam Moffett via Af]

You should check out ePMP 2.2 firmware.  The new GUI is much better.  
Not the same as Canopy, but it's a lot more familiar to navigate now.


If you replace PMP100 with anything else it will be a forklift no matter 
what.  The good thing about ePMP and 450 is they both have 5.7 and 5.4 
in the same unit. Presumably your PMP100 is 5.7.  Did they even make 
that in 5.4? So you put your new one on a 5.4 channel, start replacing 
subscribers, then switch it back to 5.7 so you can have your 6db back.  
The ones that might not work with the missing 6db on 5.4 you identify 
ahead of time and do them last.


This is theoretical right now, but it's happening here in a month or so.



--- [ "Ken Hohhof"  wrote ]:
---


You’re probably right about me.  Honestly, my FSK is still all on 
10.5, and my 430 is still on 11.2.  I’d like some of the improvements 
to the GUI, but honestly, at some point you wonder if it’s worth the 
trouble and mini outages to do the firmware upgrades on legacy stuff.
I guess from an operations standpoint though, especially if you 
automate things, it helps if everything works the same.  And I will 
probably upgrade the old stuff, if only to avoid scrolling through a 
mile long sessions list.
The argument for continuing to roll human and machine interface 
improvements into PMP100 is that’s what keeps WISPs buying Cambium, 
they can train their people and write their software and have it work 
the same across the product line.  But evidently that logic was lost 
on the team that developed ePMP.
If the sales strategy is to convince WISPs to convert PMP100 to ePMP, 
it will be interesting to hear what the recommended way is to do 
that.  I am going to be very surprised to see an ePMP compatible 
framing mode put into PMP100, that’s surely not a minor change, but 
without that, are the only 2 ways to upgrade a tower from PMP100 to 
ePMP either find some spare spectrum, or do a 1-day forklift of all 
the subs?  A PMP100 to PMP450 forklift can be pretty easy (except on 
the pocketbook) if you already have reflector dishes, we’ve found you 
don’t even have to realign the dishes.  But replacing a reflector dish 
with a Force100 will probably take a little longer.  Maybe not that 
much. The worst would be if you can’t have both sets of APs on the 
tower at the same time and literally have to take down every sub on 
the tower until you get an installer with a new radio out to them.

*From:* That One Guy via Af 
*Sent:* Friday, September 19, 2014 2:50 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dear Cambium
--- [ That One Guy  wrote ]:
---


I really wish that cambium was more forthright, I understand playing 
your cards close to your chest. we knew with 320 it was a dead duck, 
but Cambium (sales staff in particular) would never put out a clear 
answer on its demise.
We all wear big boy pants around here, except ken, he wears biker 
shorts. We can handle the truth and would much prefer to plan accordingly.
Im oretty sure that since 100 wont be getting .2 that gives us our 
answer, but it would be nice to have it formalized, Cambiums like a 
cheating wife, you know what shes doing, you know whats going to 
happen when you have evidence, but until you hear it from her mouth, 
you keep on painting the kitchen and mowing the lawn. Cambium, can we 
stop painting and let the grass grow?
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Aaron Schneider via Af > wrote:


--- [ Aaron Schneider mailto:aaron.schnei...@cambiumnetworks.com>> wrote ]:
---
Hmm, this is odd - yours and Sean's messages came in as an
attachment to an empty message...

Anyways, yes, we are well aware that FSK is never going away,
we've been the ones keeping it going for this long!  We took a
break from releasing FSK version from 11.2 to 12.1 and the next
refresh release from that was 13.1.   I don't think there has
been any full decision on the fate of future FSK releases but we
are concentrating 13.2 and 13.3 on the 430/450 products and will
see then.   I'll see if we can get a point release with the
couple of minor (meaning to fix, not meaning "minor impact") items
such as missing the None frequency.

George you need to talk your boss into letting you go to Vegas. 
Imagine the discussions you can have once you get some libations

in you and go on tilt at the blackjack table. :)

-Aaron




-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-bounces+aaron.schneider
=cambiumnetworks@afmug.com 
]
On Behalf Of George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 1:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] De

[AFMUG] Is it the wind?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Why do some customers ask if it's caused by "the wind" if they're having 
a problem.  Do they picture the wind blowing microwaves out of the sky?


It was asked today by somebody I thought would know better.

"It's windy today.  Do you think it's the wind?  I'm pretty sure it 
happened once before and I think there was wind on that day too.  It 
must be the wind."

Re: [AFMUG] Is it the wind?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I guess that might be a problem on some installs.


On 9/22/2014 3:40 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af wrote:

Blowing their dish around?

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>

On 09/22/2014 11:31 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:
Why do some customers ask if it's caused by "the wind" if they're 
having a problem.� Do they picture the wind blowing microwaves out 
of the sky?


It was asked today by somebody I thought would know better.

"It's windy today.� Do you think it's the wind?� I'm pretty sure 
it happened once before and I think there was wind on that day 
too.� It must be the wind."

Re: [AFMUG] Is it the wind?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I didn't expect people to say the customer was right :)

I also would blame the trees, not the wind.

I've seen the same... on 900mhz and 2.4ghz, anytime you're shooting 
through trees, the wind can have at least some effect, but on LOS? 
No well, I guess maybe if you have, say, a couple of 3' dishes on 
a Rohn 25 :-P


*From:* Af [af-bounces+mathew=litewire@afmug.com] on behalf of CBB 
- Jay Fuller via Af [af@afmug.com]

*Sent:* Monday, September 22, 2014 2:54 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Is it the wind?

I think i've seen that impact 900 mhz signals ; more wind blowing 
around, needles blowing everywhere, affecting signal swings by 
5-6-even 10 db...


- Original Message -
*From:* Josh Reynolds via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Monday, September 22, 2014 2:40 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Is it the wind?

Blowing their dish around?

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>

    On 09/22/2014 11:31 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:

Why do some customers ask if it's caused by "the wind" if they're
having a problem.� Do they picture the wind blowing microwaves
out of the sky?

It was asked today by somebody I thought would know better.

"It's windy today.� Do you think it's the wind?� I'm pretty
sure it happened once before and I think there was wind on that
day too.� It must be the wind."

[AFMUG] Installer attire

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I don't mind sweatshirts or jackets; It's autumn after all.  Am I crazy 
to think that a camo hoodie is inappropriate? We're not hunting the 
internet are we?
I'm trying to decide if my ire is justified or if I'm being some kind of 
grumpy old fart.

Re: [AFMUG] Installer attire

[Adam Moffett via Af]

We may be doing that.

Give them (or make them buy) sweatshirts and jackets with your logo on 
them.


On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Adam Moffett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


I don't mind sweatshirts or jackets; It's autumn after all.  Am I
crazy to think that a camo hoodie is inappropriate? We're not
hunting the internet are we?
I'm trying to decide if my ire is justified or if I'm being some
kind of grumpy old fart.

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber for tower (revisited)

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Every time we found one it was a case of 2+2 = 10.  It was always 
(tremendously) cheaper to pull a pair of THHN wire in the conduit or a 
UF cable.

Also, does anyone sell a similar fiber cable that also includes dc wires?

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Jeremy via Af > wrote:


Ok, I see that the Superior Essex is available in 2 fiber up to 12
fiber.  So I am guessing it would be best to just buy the two
fiber and run one to each backhaul.  Thoughts?  Anyone else doing
this?  I would guess that without gel would be preferred.  I do
not miss the days of gravity bringing all the gel down into my
rack.

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Jeremy via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

We are looking to run fiber for all of our licensed
backhauls.  I have seen Superior Essex armored fiber
recommended before.  I had a couple of questions.  Do you
usually just use two of the 12 fibers and run one cable to
each backhaul?  Do they make a version with just two pair?  Is
there a way for me to run the 12 into a box and then splice it
out and run 6 backhauls over it?  Would that be the
recommended method?

Then, on to terminationare most of you using the scoring
tool and the field-installable ends that you squeeze to
crimp?  Are these recommended?  Where is the best place to
purchase these ends and tools? I have attached Mike's video of
this process (which makes it look very simple btw)

http://youtu.be/rKWLCVgkNtM

Re: [AFMUG] Installer attire

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I dunnoNew York State sells something like a million hunting 
licenses per year.  I don't imagine those million or so people are all 
wearing camo to work. I think I've got to put on my boss pants and tell 
him to get a different sweatshirt.


I think it depends on your customers.  Here in Utah, camo attire would 
be completely appropriate.  Although, I'd prefer camo attire with our 
company logo on it.  I chose a bold color and purchased all of the 
clothing in that color.  We have hats, beanies, hoodies, long sleeve, 
and short sleeve.  I also purchased some white short sleeve shirts and 
did the digital full-color print logo on those.  In the winter I wear 
a Black Carhart with the logo embroidered on it.  I think branding is 
important.  If camo is your brand then go for it!  If not, buy them 
some clothes.  I have been more satisfied with the finished product 
using screenprinting versus full color digital prints.  They always 
seem to end up looking washed out and not nearly as bold as I would 
like them.


On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:40 AM, canopy--- via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Give them (or make them buy) sweatshirts and jackets with your
logo on them.

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Adam Moffett via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I don't mind sweatshirts or jackets; It's autumn after all. 
Am I crazy to think that a camo hoodie is inappropriate? We're

not hunting the internet are we?
I'm trying to decide if my ire is justified or if I'm being
some kind of grumpy old fart.

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber for tower (revisited)

[Adam Moffett via Af]

We switched to fusion splicing with splice on connectors once we started 
doing fiber on a daily basis.  As such, we have a complete 3M Crimplok 
kit that we can sell you for way below the price of a new one.  If it's 
not the same thing he's using in that video, it's at least very similar. 
It was used probably half a dozen times in real life, plus maybe 20 
practice ends.  email me at a...@plexicomm.net if you're interested and 
I'll send you photos of the whole kit.




Then, on to terminationare most of you using the scoring tool and 
the field-installable ends that you squeeze to crimp? Are these 
recommended?  Where is the best place to purchase these ends and 
tools?  I have attached Mike's video of this process (which makes it 
look very simple btw)

Re: [AFMUG] Installer attire

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I worked for places that provided the first set and then you had to buy 
replacements (from them).  Not saying I would do that, but I'm wondering 
if they were doing it wrong.


If a company sweatshirt or jacket is required for wear (or any 
uniform), you must provide them.


USDoL code.

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>

On 09/25/2014 07:40 AM, canopy--- via Af wrote:
Give them (or make them buy) sweatshirts and jackets with your logo 
on them.


On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Adam Moffett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


I don't mind sweatshirts or jackets; It's autumn after all.� Am
I crazy to think that a camo hoodie is inappropriate? We're not
hunting the internet are we?
I'm trying to decide if my ire is justified or if I'm being some
kind of grumpy old fart.

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question

[Adam Moffett via Af]

.also the PMP100 SyncInjector from Packetflux ought to work with 
ePMP.  You might want the gigE version, but in the real world with a mix 
of subscribers at different MCS levels I'm not sure how likely you are 
to exceed 100x100.


The CMM4 is a much more rugged beast.  It is expensive, but you are not 
likely to go back and wish you'd bought the cheap one.


My plan is to hook up the internal GPS and have it available, but also 
to provide sync over power.  Once you are using GPS sync to re-use 
channels it becomes critical that it's always working, so better to have 
two timing sources available IMO.


They have built in GPS if youre on a budget, not sure why alot of 
people are so die hard against using it


On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Jeremy Grip via Af > wrote:


I’m looking at ePMP w/channel reuse from a cost-comparison
standpoint. Trying to figure out how much I need to spend on GPS
synch for a 4 AP/ 2 channel cluster. Does it need to be a CMM4? I
will want to be synching multiple POPs…

Jeremy Grip
North Branch Networks,LLC




--
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that 
the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if 
you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all 
means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] Installer attire

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Are you referring to Piblokto? There's some speculation as to whether 
it's a real thing.



seal blubber causes paranoia
*From:* Josh Reynolds via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, September 25, 2014 12:57 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Installer attire
Gonna flip this on it's head...

Here in Alaska, if you are wearing a uniform from any company that 
isn't a local utility, you are immediately untrusted. People here 
would rather do business with guys operating out of an unmarked truck 
that they've known their entire lives than working out of some fancy 
whole-logo-wrapped truckwith uniform standards and "tons of paperwork".


Just something I've learned since being here... it's a different world.

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>

On 09/25/2014 09:54 AM, Keefe John via Af wrote:
We don't let anyone go to a customer without logo'd professional 
apparel.


We give each tech 5 shirts(a mix of polos and buttondowns) plus a 
logo'd jacket.� Tech's must wear nice pants or jeans plus the 
logo'd shirt and tennis shoes or boots.� Nothing worn out, ripped, 
dirty, etc is allowed.� You want your employees to look like 
professionals not duck dynasty.


Even in the office we don't allow tshirts, hoodies, shorts, sandals, 
or anything else unprofessional.� You never know when a customer 
might stop by and you always want to look your best.


Keefe

On 9/25/2014 10:39 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:
I don't mind sweatshirts or jackets; It's autumn after all.� Am I 
crazy to think that a camo hoodie is inappropriate? We're not 
hunting the internet are we?
I'm trying to decide if my ire is justified or if I'm being some 
kind of grumpy old fart.

[AFMUG] Mikrotik-tik-tik-tik

[Adam Moffett via Af]

So I've got several setups like this: CCR <-> SFP <-> Fiber <-> SFP <-> 
RB2011
sometimes pinging the RB2011 I can see this once per second delay. Those 
pings are at an interval of .2 seconds (ping -i .02) so you can see the 
delay on every 5th packet corresponds to a once per second "tick" of 
some sort.  If I vary the interval, the tick still occurs every one 
second.  I have multiple installations that do this, and multiples that 
don'tand I cannot find any rhyme or reason to it.  Connected to one 
CCR on SFP2 I have an RB2011 that has the symptom, and then I made a 
virtually identical installation on SFP3 that doesn't do it.  The only 
thing different is the IP addresses and the length of the fiber (3 feet 
on the good one, a couple thousand feet on the bad one).


The delay varies anywhere from a few ms to upwards of a hundred ms, and 
when it's high it affects VoIP so it is a real issue.  I have a few more 
combinations of things to test, but I wonder if somebody has seen this 
already who can save me a ton of time.  Anybody?


P.S.:  I emailed supp...@mikrotik.com yesterday.  Do they eventually 
respond or is it a blackhole?

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I stand corrected.
Yes, the GPS chip comes with an internal patch antenna. The internal 
patch antenna is automatically disabled once you connect the external 
GPS antenna 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question

[Adam Moffett via Af]

As far as I know, the PMP450 has the internal antenna, ePMP does not.  I 
can tell you that without the antenna attached, the one I had on the 
bench the other day did not see any sats.


Jeremy: Yes each GPS Sync ePMP comes with a GPS antenna.  It's a 
magnetic puck type like you would stick on top of a car, but It goes 
onto a steel plate in a pocket on the top of the Cambium sector 
antenna.  You should buy one of Cambium's sectors and an AP before you 
consider third party antennas btw, the cambium one has a couple of 
convenient features (like the GPS antenna pocket) that I don't think 
anybody has duplicated yet.


They don't all have to see the same satellites.  You can use a mix of 
sync devices.  You can change the sync source remotely via the web GUI 
if you have more than one connected.


It has been asserted (I think by Packetflux) that you could get minute 
timing differences if you use two different sync sources at the same 
site.  I'm not clear on how terrible of a problem that would be, but I 
know lots of people end up with a mixed bag of timing sources for one 
reason or another.  Like when you add that 5th AP but forgot that you 
only had a 4 port sync injector.



the APs come with an antenna for GPS, but its never been clear to me 
whether there is also an internal patch


On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Jeremy Grip via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


So would you be able to switch over to the onboard sync remotely?
Do you need an antenna for each AP for using it? Do you think it’s
as precise as using an CMM4 (or SyncPipe Deluxe w/Gig Injector) if
not as robust? If all POPs are sync’d with same Up/Dn ratio and
max cell distance and they’re talking to the same birds, is it
pretty much the same?

*From:*Af [mailto:af-bounces+grip
<mailto:af-bounces%2Bgrip>=nbnworks@afmug.com
<mailto:nbnworks....@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, September 25, 2014 2:55 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question

.also the PMP100 SyncInjector from Packetflux ought to work
with ePMP.  You might want the gigE version, but in the real world
with a mix of subscribers at different MCS levels I'm not sure how
likely you are to exceed 100x100.

The CMM4 is a much more rugged beast.  It is expensive, but you
are not likely to go back and wish you'd bought the cheap one.

My plan is to hook up the internal GPS and have it available, but
also to provide sync over power. Once you are using GPS sync to
re-use channels it becomes critical that it's always working, so
better to have two timing sources available IMO.

They have built in GPS if youre on a budget, not sure why alot
of people are so die hard against using it

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Jeremy Grip via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I’m looking at ePMP w/channel reuse from a cost-comparison
standpoint. Trying to figure out how much I need to spend on
GPS synch for a 4 AP/ 2 channel cluster. Does it need to be a
CMM4? I will want to be synching multiple POPs…

Jeremy Grip
North Branch Networks,LLC



-- 


All parts should go together without forcing. You must
remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled
by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there
must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM
maintenance manual, 1925




--
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that 
the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if 
you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all 
means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Strangely enough, I've had the opposite experience with reliability.  
I've had more mysterious deaths from sync injectors.haven't had a 
CMM failure in years.


You really prefer the CMM?  I use to have tons of issues with CMMs 
losing sync, losing power, dying.  It seems to me like the sync 
injectors are a fraction of the cost and are almost an 'install and 
forget it' type of product.  They just keep on working.  I actually 
prefer the cheaper version that Packetflux offers, having used both 
extensively.


On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Adam Moffett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:



.also the PMP100 SyncInjector from Packetflux ought to work
with ePMP.  You might want the gigE version, but in the real world
with a mix of subscribers at different MCS levels I'm not sure how
likely you are to exceed 100x100.

The CMM4 is a much more rugged beast.  It is expensive, but you
are not likely to go back and wish you'd bought the cheap one.

My plan is to hook up the internal GPS and have it available, but
also to provide sync over power.  Once you are using GPS sync to
re-use channels it becomes critical that it's always working, so
better to have two timing sources available IMO.


They have built in GPS if youre on a budget, not sure why alot of
people are so die hard against using it

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Jeremy Grip via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I’m looking at ePMP w/channel reuse from a cost-comparison
standpoint. Trying to figure out how much I need to spend on
GPS synch for a 4 AP/ 2 channel cluster. Does it need to be a
CMM4? I will want to be synching multiple POPs…

Jeremy Grip
North Branch Networks,LLC




-- 
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember

that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you.
Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a
reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance
manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question

[Adam Moffett via Af]

nces%2Bgrip>=nbnworks....@afmug.com 
<mailto:nbnworks@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett via Af

*Sent:* Thursday, September 25, 2014 2:55 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question

.also the PMP100 SyncInjector from Packetflux ought to work with 
ePMP.  You might want the gigE version, but in the real world with a 
mix of subscribers at different MCS levels I'm not sure how likely you 
are to exceed 100x100.


The CMM4 is a much more rugged beast.  It is expensive, but you are 
not likely to go back and wish you'd bought the cheap one.


My plan is to hook up the internal GPS and have it available, but also 
to provide sync over power.  Once you are using GPS sync to re-use 
channels it becomes critical that it's always working, so better to 
have two timing sources available IMO.


They have built in GPS if youre on a budget, not sure why alot of
people are so die hard against using it

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Jeremy Grip via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I’m looking at ePMP w/channel reuse from a cost-comparison
standpoint. Trying to figure out how much I need to spend on GPS
synch for a 4 AP/ 2 channel cluster. Does it need to be a CMM4? I
will want to be synching multiple POPs…

Jeremy Grip
North Branch Networks,LLC



-- 


All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember
that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you.
Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a
reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance
manual, 1925



--

All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that 
the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if 
you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all 
means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] 477 commercial/residential

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Yeahbut for the 477 filing the documents all refer to "advertised" 
speeds.

For residential you can use the "maximum advertised speed" that's available.
For commercial you can use the "maximum CIR" that's available.

What I took away from my reading was they want you to report stuff that 
anybody could call in and order right now with no excessive farting 
around, not stuff that you could hypothetically do if you really wanted to.



Sort of but not totally.  For example, if you are rural and don’t have 
wireline competitors like cable, low-cost fiber, or DSL that can 
deliver 25-40Mbps, then you can be more competitive with commercial.  
In that case,  You can charge $300 or more for 25Mbps and up.  In 
suburbs and city environments for the most part, cable providers are 
delivering 25/5for about $145, 50/10 for about $250, and 100/20 for 
$350.  If your last mile as a WISP is off a PTMP vertical asset like a 
tower, not only don’t you have the technology to guarantee the 100Mbps 
for example, you don’t have a lot of room on your AP to deliver 50 or 
25Mbps.  It’s just not profitable at those levels if you use a 
standard tower based model in those environments, even assuming you 
have little interference which is another issue.  You also can’t push 
low-cost business as an option since even 25Mbps DSL is only $100 or less.


With residential you not only have more options, you also have a much 
higher density of users to get a great return on the vertical asset.  
That being said, there are still opportunities in commercial using 
other designs.   Although there are still pockets of commercial where 
you might be able to provide a lower cost model if the only other 
option the businesses have is ADSL , for the most part, we are now 
targeting businesses that are willing to pay $350 per month or more.


Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-bounces+rory=triadwireless@afmug.com] *On 
Behalf Of *That One Guy via Af

*Sent:* Thursday, September 25, 2014 7:33 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] 477 commercial/residential

This choice is based on how you market your services is it not?

--

All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that 
the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if 
you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all 
means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question

[Adam Moffett via Af]

That's different from what I was told in Albany.  The front/back setting 
does something?


Regarding the “Front Sector” and “Back Sector” settings recommended in 
the doc (and User Guide), you will have to follow that. That is part 
of the magic sauce in ePMP that make GPS sync work on this platform.

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik-tik-tik-tik

[Adam Moffett via Af]

There's a backup script that runs every 6 hours.  But that's it.

Do you have any scripts running?

Regards,
Chuck

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Adam Moffett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


So I've got several setups like this: CCR <-> SFP <-> Fiber <->
SFP <-> RB2011
sometimes pinging the RB2011 I can see this once per second
delay.  Those pings are at an interval of .2 seconds (ping -i .02)
so you can see the delay on every 5th packet corresponds to a once
per second "tick" of some sort.  If I vary the interval, the tick
still occurs every one second.  I have multiple installations that
do this, and multiples that don'tand I cannot find any rhyme
or reason to it.  Connected to one CCR on SFP2 I have an RB2011
that has the symptom, and then I made a virtually identical
installation on SFP3 that doesn't do it.  The only thing different
is the IP addresses and the length of the fiber (3 feet on the
good one, a couple thousand feet on the bad one).

The delay varies anywhere from a few ms to upwards of a hundred
ms, and when it's high it affects VoIP so it is a real issue.  I
have a few more combinations of things to test, but I wonder if
somebody has seen this already who can save me a ton of time. 
Anybody?


P.S.:  I emailed supp...@mikrotik.com
<mailto:supp...@mikrotik.com> yesterday.  Do they eventually
respond or is it a blackhole?

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik-tik-tik-tik

[Adam Moffett via Af]

The customer is having real issues, so I don't think it's a matter of 
how pings are handled compared to other traffic.  There's also pretty 
much zero load on any of this stuff.


You see this with Ciscos all the time, because pings are handled at 
the process level rather than the interrupt level.� I would suspect 
the Mikrotik of something similar, but since MT is linux-based, AFAIK 
all pings are handled in the kernel at interrupt level.� But that's 
just a guess, so perhaps MT is handling the pings at the process level 
for some reason.


On 09/25/2014 03:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson via Af wrote:


I�ve seen that before, but not with fiber anywhere.

�

My current deployments with RB2011 don�t show this and it�s 
similar to your setup.


�

�

*From:*Af [mailto:af-bounces+sterling=avative@afmug.com] *On 
Behalf Of *Adam Moffett via Af

*Sent:* Thursday, September 25, 2014 2:41 PM
*To:* Animal Farm
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Mikrotik-tik-tik-tik

�

So I've got several setups like this: CCR <-> SFP <-> Fiber <-> SFP 
<-> RB2011
sometimes pinging the RB2011 I can see this once per second delay.� 
Those pings are at an interval of .2 seconds (ping -i .02) so you can 
see the delay on every 5th packet corresponds to a once per second 
"tick" of some sort.� If I vary the interval, the tick still occurs 
every one second.� I have multiple installations that do this, and 
multiples that don'tand I cannot find any rhyme or reason to 
it.� Connected to one CCR on SFP2 I have an RB2011 that has the 
symptom, and then I made a virtually identical installation on SFP3 
that doesn't do it.� The only thing different is the IP addresses 
and the length of the fiber (3 feet on the good one, a couple 
thousand feet on the bad one).�


The delay varies anywhere from a few ms to upwards of a hundred ms, 
and when it's high it affects VoIP so it is a real issue.� I have a 
few more combinations of things to test, but I wonder if somebody has 
seen this already who can save me a ton of time.� Anybody?


P.S.:� I emailed supp...@mikrotik.com <mailto:supp...@mikrotik.com> 
yesterday.� Do they eventually respond or is it a blackhole?


!DSPAM:2,542496be61881139814307! 

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik-tik-tik-tik

[Adam Moffett via Af]

interesting thought.

I have been bit by flow control more times than I care to remember. 
See if you have any Tx or Rx pause frame counters on either or both 
ends. If not that then I would suggest a hardware issue of some kind, 
maybe a failing SFP module.


On 9/26/2014 10:25 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:


The customer is having real issues, so I don't think it's a matter of 
how pings are handled compared to other traffic.� There's also 
pretty much zero load on any of this stuff.


You see this with Ciscos all the time, because pings are handled at 
the process level rather than the interrupt level.� I would 
suspect the Mikrotik of something similar, but since MT is 
linux-based, AFAIK all pings are handled in the kernel at interrupt 
level.� But that's just a guess, so perhaps MT is handling the 
pings at the process level for some reason.


On 09/25/2014 03:25 PM, Sterling Jacobson via Af wrote:


I�ve seen that before, but not with fiber anywhere.

�

My current deployments with RB2011 don�t show this and it�s 
similar to your setup.


�

�

*From:*Af [mailto:af-bounces+sterling=avative@afmug.com] *On 
Behalf Of *Adam Moffett via Af

*Sent:* Thursday, September 25, 2014 2:41 PM
*To:* Animal Farm
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Mikrotik-tik-tik-tik

�

So I've got several setups like this: CCR <-> SFP <-> Fiber <-> SFP 
<-> RB2011
sometimes pinging the RB2011 I can see this once per second 
delay.� Those pings are at an interval of .2 seconds (ping -i 
.02) so you can see the delay on every 5th packet corresponds to a 
once per second "tick" of some sort.� If I vary the interval, the 
tick still occurs every one second.� I have multiple 
installations that do this, and multiples that don'tand I 
cannot find any rhyme or reason to it.� Connected to one CCR on 
SFP2 I have an RB2011 that has the symptom, and then I made a 
virtually identical installation on SFP3 that doesn't do it.� The 
only thing different is the IP addresses and the length of the 
fiber (3 feet on the good one, a couple thousand feet on the bad 
one).�


The delay varies anywhere from a few ms to upwards of a hundred ms, 
and when it's high it affects VoIP so it is a real issue.� I have 
a few more combinations of things to test, but I wonder if somebody 
has seen this already who can save me a ton of time.� Anybody?


P.S.:� I emailed supp...@mikrotik.com 
<mailto:supp...@mikrotik.com> yesterday.� Do they eventually 
respond or is it a blackhole?


!DSPAM:2,542496be61881139814307! 

Re: [AFMUG] 477 commercial/residential

[Adam Moffett via Af]

isted in those tracts?

On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Rory Conaway via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Pretty much. It’s about integrity, not the perception of
integrity.  I decided not to oversell business services at this
point but that may change when we get more infrastructure in. 
There are enough low-cost options for businesses that it’s just

not profitable.  Better to go after the customers that are willing
to pay more for a better guaranteed service.  We are finding,
based on orders, that many companies are willing to pay as much as
$750 to get guaranteed services in areas where their options are
more limited.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-bounces+rory
<mailto:af-bounces%2Brory>=triadwireless@afmug.com
    <mailto:triadwireless@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
via Af
*Sent:* Friday, September 26, 2014 6:47 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 477 commercial/residential

Yeahbut for the 477 filing the documents all refer to
"advertised" speeds.
For residential you can use the "maximum advertised speed" that's
available.
For commercial you can use the "maximum CIR" that's available.

What I took away from my reading was they want you to report stuff
that anybody could call in and order right now with no excessive
farting around, not stuff that you could hypothetically do if you
really wanted to.

Sort of but not totally.  For example, if you are rural and
don’t have wireline competitors like cable, low-cost fiber, or
DSL that can deliver 25-40Mbps, then you can be more
competitive with commercial.  In that case,  You can charge
$300 or more for 25Mbps and up.  In suburbs and city
environments for the most part, cable providers are delivering
25/5for about $145, 50/10 for about $250, and 100/20 for
$350.  If your last mile as a WISP is off a PTMP vertical
asset like a tower, not only don’t you have the technology to
guarantee the 100Mbps for example, you don’t have a lot of
room on your AP to deliver 50 or 25Mbps.  It’s just not
profitable at those levels if you use a standard tower based
model in those environments, even assuming you have little
interference which is another issue.  You also can’t push
low-cost business as an option since even 25Mbps DSL is only
$100 or less.

With residential you not only have more options, you also have
a much higher density of users to get a great return on the
vertical asset.  That being said, there are still
opportunities in commercial using other designs.   Although
there are still pockets of commercial where you might be able
to provide a lower cost model if the only other option the
businesses have is ADSL , for the most part, we are now
targeting businesses that are willing to pay $350 per month or
more.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-bounces+rory=triadwireless@afmug.com]
*On Behalf Of *That One Guy via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, September 25, 2014 7:33 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] 477 commercial/residential

This choice is based on how you market your services is it not?

-- 


All parts should go together without forcing. You must
remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled
by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there
must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM
maintenance manual, 1925



-- 


All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember
that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you.
Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a
reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance
manual, 1925




--
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that 
the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if 
you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all 
means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question

[Adam Moffett via Af]

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Jeremy Grip via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


So would you be able to switch over to the onboard sync remotely? Do 
you need an antenna for each AP for using it? Do you think it’s as 
precise as using an CMM4 (or SyncPipe Deluxe w/Gig Injector) if not 
as robust? If all POPs are sync’d with same Up/Dn ratio and max cell 
distance and they’re talking to the same birds, is it pretty much 
the same?


*From:*Af [mailto:af-bounces+grip 
<mailto:af-bounces%2Bgrip>=nbnworks....@afmug.com 
<mailto:nbnworks@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett via Af

*Sent:* Thursday, September 25, 2014 2:55 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question

.also the PMP100 SyncInjector from Packetflux ought to work with 
ePMP.  You might want the gigE version, but in the real world with a 
mix of subscribers at different MCS levels I'm not sure how likely 
you are to exceed 100x100.


The CMM4 is a much more rugged beast.  It is expensive, but you are 
not likely to go back and wish you'd bought the cheap one.


My plan is to hook up the internal GPS and have it available, but 
also to provide sync over power.  Once you are using GPS sync to 
re-use channels it becomes critical that it's always working, so 
better to have two timing sources available IMO.


They have built in GPS if youre on a budget, not sure why alot
of people are so die hard against using it

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Jeremy Grip via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I’m looking at ePMP w/channel reuse from a cost-comparison
standpoint. Trying to figure out how much I need to spend on GPS
synch for a 4 AP/ 2 channel cluster. Does it need to be a CMM4?
I will want to be synching multiple POPs…

Jeremy Grip
North Branch Networks,LLC



-- 


All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember
that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you.
Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a
reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance
manual, 1925



--

All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that 
the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, 
if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all 
means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question

[Adam Moffett via Af]

CMM4 is available with or without a switch.

I believe the CMMmicro (CMM3) was the only CMM that contained 
hub/switches. Everything else was passthrough.


On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Chuck McCown via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


If I am not mistaken, the original CMM had a hub.
*From:* Mike Hammett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Friday, September 26, 2014 10:16 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question
My issue with the CMM-type products is they're all switched,
correct? I want no layer two devices between my radio and my router.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

----
    *From: *"Adam Moffett via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Thursday, September 25, 2014 1:54:45 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Newbie Question


.also the PMP100 SyncInjector from Packetflux ought to work
with ePMP.  You might want the gigE version, but in the real world
with a mix of subscribers at different MCS levels I'm not sure how
likely you are to exceed 100x100.

The CMM4 is a much more rugged beast.  It is expensive, but you
are not likely to go back and wish you'd bought the cheap one.

My plan is to hook up the internal GPS and have it available, but
also to provide sync over power.  Once you are using GPS sync to
re-use channels it becomes critical that it's always working, so
better to have two timing sources available IMO.

They have built in GPS if youre on a budget, not sure why alot
of people are so die hard against using it
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Jeremy Grip via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I’m looking at ePMP w/channel reuse from a cost-comparison
standpoint. Trying to figure out how much I need to spend
on GPS synch for a 4 AP/ 2 channel cluster. Does it need
to be a CMM4? I will want to be synching multiple POPs…

Jeremy Grip
North Branch Networks,LLC



-- 
All parts should go together without forcing. You must

remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled
by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there
must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM
maintenance manual, 1925

[AFMUG] iOS update = Expedited Forwarding?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Has anyone else noticed that lots of traffic from Apple 17.0.0.0/8 has 
DSCP 46 set?


Canopy users with iPhones may find that the update is interfering with 
their regular internet usage unless you take measures to de-prioritize that.

Re: [AFMUG] iOS update = Expedited Forwarding?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Me too.

On the one hand, VoIP from Ring Central and some others comes through 
with an appropriate DSCP tag.  On the other hand, so do iOS updates for 
some reason.



On 9/29/2014 12:24 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af wrote:
You must have a carrier that doesn't zero the DSCP field. I both like 
and hate that at the same time.


On 9/29/2014 11:11 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that lots of traffic from Apple 17.0.0.0/8 
has DSCP 46 set?


Canopy users with iPhones may find that the update is interfering 
with their regular internet usage unless you take measures to 
de-prioritize that.

Re: [AFMUG] DiffServ and the internet

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I've been cheating up until this point.  If you force the audio to be 
bridged through your own server then you can tag all the traffic that 
goes to and from that server.  It doesn't seem to make a huge difference 
versus having RTP go straight to the carrier.  If you're not transcoding 
then the added CPU usage is minimal.  Faxing seems to work better if I'm 
not bridging the audio, but why am I faxing anyway, right?


I tried all kinds of stuff tonight, none were any good. I wonder if 
there's a way on MT to snoop SIP messages and look for the SIP contact 
IPs and mark those. Seems tricky. And I R no smrt enuf.


On 9/29/2014 9:37 PM, Chris Fabien via Af wrote:

Packet size and rate is pretty consistent right? Just a thought...

On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 8:05 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) 
via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Speaking of DSCP and carriers zeroing it in the middle, I have
some VoIP Innovations trunks. I know where the SIP messages are
coming from, so I can mangle a DSCP value back onto those packets
at ingress. But the RTP traffic comes from all over the freakin
place, tons of different source address, never the same. I've
asked if they could provide a list and pretty much got a no.

Anybody have any ideas? Any way for a MT to identify an RTP
stream and then dynamically add a mangle rule to change the DSCP
value? My MT script-fu is not strong.

Re: [AFMUG] DiffServ and the internet

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Yeahif the ATA had a public IP, or was on NAT behind a router with a 
public IP, then the RTP traffic could go directly between the ATA and 
the carrier.


If you're using asterisk, the old (1.2 and 1.4) paramter is 
canreinvite=.  In 1.6+ they renamed it to directmedia=
If canreinvite=yes or directmedia=yes then the endpoints are allowed to 
bypass asterisk and talk to each other directly.  If they don't have 
direct connectivity to each other, then obviously they can't and won't 
do that no matter what you set the option to.




That’s what I do, there’s another way?  We put customer ATAs on 
private IPs so it wouldn’t work if traffic bypassed our server.
Is there a configuration parameter on the SIP trunk that tells it to 
send RTP traffic directly to the endpoint?
We also have a multisite business customer that uses a hosted VoIP 
service (Star2Star) with an appliance at each site, we give each 
appliance its own public IP and tag traffic to those IPs.

*From:* Adam Moffett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:03 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DiffServ and the internet
I've been cheating up until this point.  If you force the audio to be 
bridged through your own server then you can tag all the traffic that 
goes to and from that server.  It doesn't seem to make a huge 
difference versus having RTP go straight to the carrier. If you're not 
transcoding then the added CPU usage is minimal.  Faxing seems to work 
better if I'm not bridging the audio, but why am I faxing anyway, right?


I tried all kinds of stuff tonight, none were any good. I wonder if 
there's a way on MT to snoop SIP messages and look for the SIP 
contact IPs and mark those. Seems tricky. And I R no smrt enuf.


On 9/29/2014 9:37 PM, Chris Fabien via Af wrote:

Packet size and rate is pretty consistent right? Just a thought...
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 8:05 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) 
via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Speaking of DSCP and carriers zeroing it in the middle, I have
some VoIP Innovations trunks. I know where the SIP messages are
coming from, so I can mangle a DSCP value back onto those
packets at ingress. But the RTP traffic comes from all over the
freakin place, tons of different source address, never the same.
I've asked if they could provide a list and pretty much got a no.

Anybody have any ideas? Any way for a MT to identify an RTP
stream and then dynamically add a mangle rule to change the DSCP
value? My MT script-fu is not strong.

Re: [AFMUG] AFMUG list option being considered

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I hope you'll tell the list when the messages get sent so I can look for it.


Git r done.

Regards,
Chuck

On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:48 AM, James Howard via Af > wrote:


Is the poll closed  yet?  If not, I’d like to vote “Yay” also
which would seem to put the count at 2-0 in favor!

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *CBB - Jay Fuller via Af
*Sent:* Monday, September 29, 2014 8:24 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AFMUG list option being considered


Yay

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Paul McCall via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
To: "af@afmug.com " mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: [AFMUG] AFMUG list option being considered
Date: Mon, Sep 29, 2014 8:20 PM

Guys,

As some of you are aware, PDMNet’s behind the scenes management of
the AFMUG list as a service to Chuck McCown and his companies,
involves hosting on an Amazon server.  Some very good things have
come from that decision so far… no mail delivery issues (no server
issues, no blacklisting or greylisting issues etc. to our
knowledge).  The EC2 / SES platform is very robust, though overly
complex at first blush.  A lot more time went to getting this
setup that we anticipated, but that’s life.   It costs a little
more to use this platform, (I know.. I know) but long term, I
think we will be happy with it.

One of the differences is the way the headers are handled.  Out of
the box, Amazon required us to “munge” the headers in such a way
that we could customize them to meet Amazon’s strict mass-emailing
rules.  This causes some differences in the way the mail is
delivered, causing a few of you who use a different type of
threading than most of us, some grief.  We are way PAST the
discussion about what is “right” etc.  Respectfully, lets move on
from that “debate”.

The only way that Amazon provides to do things in a more
conventional email header fashion is to use their API.  We knew
this was an option when we brought the list live, but also
anticipated a bit of a learning curve.  And, indeed it was!

We have gotten comfortable with the API and have been running it
on our test Mailman list internally.  Basically the API allows us
/ requires us to process each AFMUG subscriber as an authenticated
/ confirmed email address.  S…. In order to use the API, we
need to authenticate all the current users of the list.   We can
send a batch through the API to generate the confirmation email to
everyone, but before I did it, I wanted to give you a heads up. 
NEW subscribers will first join the mailman AFMUG group and once

confirmed, will then get an Amazon confirmation immediately
thereafter. Unsubscribing will also remove you from an
authenticated user for the list.

Assuming that we haven’t overlooked something (and, I am sure you
guys will let me know that, LOL ) I would like to give a 48 hour
notice that we will make the change, and you will get the Amazon
email after that window.

All in favor ?   All opposed?

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  office

772-473-0352  cell

www.pdmnet.com 

pa...@pdmnet.net 



*Total Control Panel*



Login 

To: ja...@litewire.net



From:
0148c4289a8a-55eb447f-6dbb-485f-b178-9f956e87d322-000...@amazonses.com





Message Score: 2



High (60): Pass

My Spam Blocking Level: High



Medium (75): Pass




Low (90): Pass

Block


this sender / Block


this sender enterprise-wide



Block


amazonses.com  / Block


amazonses.com  enterprise-wide



/This message was delivered because the content filter score did
not exceed your filter level./

Re: [AFMUG] DiffServ and the internet

[Adam Moffett via Af]

+1
Seems like the easiest answer.

On 9/30/2014 11:05 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
Is the company’s PBX behind their firewall?  If you give it a 
dedicated IP address, then you can tag based on destination IP.

*From:* George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:55 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DiffServ and the internet
These are business customers with on-site PBXs with a VoIP Innovations 
SIP trunk. Yeah, if we were running a local switch, then this problem 
would be a whole lot easier to solve, but that's not what I have to 
work with at this point.


As far as I can tell, there's no easy way to identify the VoIP 
Innovations audio streams. They come from tons of different source 
address and use random ports from 1 to 2. And it's a mix of 
G711 and G729.


No idea, I'm just the network guy.

On 9/30/2014 9:28 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
That’s what I do, there’s another way?  We put customer ATAs on 
private IPs so it wouldn’t work if traffic bypassed our server.
Is there a configuration parameter on the SIP trunk that tells it to 
send RTP traffic directly to the endpoint?
We also have a multisite business customer that uses a hosted VoIP 
service (Star2Star) with an appliance at each site, we give each 
appliance its own public IP and tag traffic to those IPs.

*From:* Adam Moffett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:03 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DiffServ and the internet
I've been cheating up until this point.  If you force the audio to be 
bridged through your own server then you can tag all the traffic that 
goes to and from that server.  It doesn't seem to make a huge 
difference versus having RTP go straight to the carrier.  If you're 
not transcoding then the added CPU usage is minimal.  Faxing seems to 
work better if I'm not bridging the audio, but why am I faxing 
anyway, right?


I tried all kinds of stuff tonight, none were any good. I wonder if 
there's a way on MT to snoop SIP messages and look for the SIP 
contact IPs and mark those. Seems tricky. And I R no smrt enuf.


On 9/29/2014 9:37 PM, Chris Fabien via Af wrote:

Packet size and rate is pretty consistent right? Just a thought...
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 8:05 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) 
via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Speaking of DSCP and carriers zeroing it in the middle, I have
some VoIP Innovations trunks. I know where the SIP messages are
coming from, so I can mangle a DSCP value back onto those
packets at ingress. But the RTP traffic comes from all over the
freakin place, tons of different source address, never the
same. I've asked if they could provide a list and pretty much
got a no.

Anybody have any ideas? Any way for a MT to identify an RTP
stream and then dynamically add a mangle rule to change the
DSCP value? My MT script-fu is not strong.

Re: [AFMUG] DiffServ and the internet

[Adam Moffett via Af]

but like George, I would also be interested in some sort of rule 
that would match RTP voice traffic.   I don't see any easy way to do it, 
but wireshark seems to pick up on it reliably, so I guess there's a way.




+1
Seems like the easiest answer.

On 9/30/2014 11:05 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
Is the company’s PBX behind their firewall?  If you give it a 
dedicated IP address, then you can tag based on destination IP.

*From:* George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:55 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DiffServ and the internet
These are business customers with on-site PBXs with a VoIP 
Innovations SIP trunk. Yeah, if we were running a local switch, then 
this problem would be a whole lot easier to solve, but that's not 
what I have to work with at this point.


As far as I can tell, there's no easy way to identify the VoIP 
Innovations audio streams. They come from tons of different source 
address and use random ports from 1 to 2. And it's a mix of 
G711 and G729.


No idea, I'm just the network guy.

On 9/30/2014 9:28 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
That’s what I do, there’s another way?  We put customer ATAs on 
private IPs so it wouldn’t work if traffic bypassed our server.
Is there a configuration parameter on the SIP trunk that tells it to 
send RTP traffic directly to the endpoint?
We also have a multisite business customer that uses a hosted VoIP 
service (Star2Star) with an appliance at each site, we give each 
appliance its own public IP and tag traffic to those IPs.

*From:* Adam Moffett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:03 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DiffServ and the internet
I've been cheating up until this point.  If you force the audio to 
be bridged through your own server then you can tag all the traffic 
that goes to and from that server.  It doesn't seem to make a huge 
difference versus having RTP go straight to the carrier.  If you're 
not transcoding then the added CPU usage is minimal.  Faxing seems 
to work better if I'm not bridging the audio, but why am I faxing 
anyway, right?


I tried all kinds of stuff tonight, none were any good. I wonder if 
there's a way on MT to snoop SIP messages and look for the SIP 
contact IPs and mark those. Seems tricky. And I R no smrt enuf.


On 9/29/2014 9:37 PM, Chris Fabien via Af wrote:

Packet size and rate is pretty consistent right? Just a thought...
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 8:05 PM, George Skorup (Cyber 
Broadcasting) via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Speaking of DSCP and carriers zeroing it in the middle, I have
some VoIP Innovations trunks. I know where the SIP messages
are coming from, so I can mangle a DSCP value back onto those
packets at ingress. But the RTP traffic comes from all over
the freakin place, tons of different source address, never the
same. I've asked if they could provide a list and pretty much
got a no.

Anybody have any ideas? Any way for a MT to identify an RTP
stream and then dynamically add a mangle rule to change the
DSCP value? My MT script-fu is not strong.

Re: [AFMUG] 7.3.6 AES PKG3

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I only have DES.otherwise I would unashamedly hook you up.


I have an need to get 7.3.6 AES PKG3 immediately, it sure would suck if someone 
accidentally sent it to d...@wyoming.com

Re: [AFMUG] New PMP beta load 13.2 Build 30 available!

[Adam Moffett via Af]

An upcoming release is supposed to have a pre-populated list of 
channels, but you'll still be able to add the custom frequencies if you 
need/want to.


I don't recall which version is supposed to have that.



Why do we have to enter custom frequencies for 365?

Also 365 SM's seem to get stuck when doing a site survey it will link 
at -75 then don't matter if you put the SM on ground signal won't 
update until you do a capacity test


Been liking the Mimo-A drop down support but it has a bug in it where 
it will try and achieve higher modulation and then drop so there is 
still more to do on your algorithm for that but have a very good start

—
Sent from Mailbox 


On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 3:11 PM, George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) 
via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


You broke my GPS stats. The 450AP I updated does not read the
Motorola binary GPS data from the attached SyncPipe anymore. And
there are other bugs, maybe just GUI/display issues though. I sent
the info to Aaron, go beat him up for me. The GPS data issue needs
to be fixed before I can update any more sectors.

Other than that, I'm impressed with the RF performance w/ MIMO-A.
It seems to have really helped with all the
multipath/fading/ducting and sessions dropping we've been seeing
at night. And throughput got a lot better in most cases.

On 9/30/2014 1:49 PM, Jonathan Mandziara via Af wrote:


Folks,

�

Does anyone have any 13.2 Beta feedback that they would like to
share with the list?

�

Best,

�

Jonathan

�

*From:*Af
[mailto:af-bounces+jonathan.mandziara=cambiumnetworks@afmug.com]
*On Behalf Of *Jonathan Mandziara via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, September 25, 2014 9:32 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New PMP beta load 13.2 Build 30 available!

�

Folks,

�

PMP Beta 13.2 Build 30 is also there for PMP430 and PTP230
devices.� Please download it and let us know what you think.

�

Best,

�

Jonathan

�

*From:*Af
[mailto:af-bounces+jonathan.mandziara=cambiumnetworks@afmug.com]
*On Behalf Of *canopy01 via Af
*Sent:* Monday, September 22, 2014 11:38 AM
*To:* Cambium Dist_List (af@afmug.com )
*Subject:* [AFMUG] New PMP beta load 13.2 Build 30 available!

�

Folks,

�

PMP Beta load 13.2 Build 30 is now available for download and you
can find it here:

�

https://support.cambiumnetworks.com/files/pmp450

�

  * Improvements for MIMO-A
  o PMP450 APs & SMs will now default to MIMO-A control
message mode
  o If you have an interop sector (containing 430 SMs), you
may need to set this back to legacy SISO mode
  + Configuration -> Radio -> PMP 430 Interop Mode, set
to SISO
  + This is only necessary if you have issues with
existing PMP430�s reconnecting and should not be
necessary in a majority of the cases.
  * Fix for missing "None" frequency option
  * Control Slots is now called Contention Slots
  * Addition of "Color Code Priority" column to the Session
Status -> Session tab
  o If Color Code Rescan option is enabled on the AP, and an
SM is registered via a non-primary color code, there will
be a countdown for each SM that will be rescanning due to
this configuration.
  o If an SM is registered via Installation Color Code (ICC),
this will also be noted on the Session Status -> Device
tab, Session column, next to "In Session"
  * Added number of VCs in use next to Subscriber Count on the
AP's main page. �This number includes Broadcast and
Multicast (if enabled) VCs.
  * Added support to NAT to handle fragments (to fix the
FemtoCell issue)
  * Alignment tone fix
  * Various bug fixes

�

�

Corey

�

�

Re: [AFMUG] DiffServ and the internet

[Adam Moffett via Af]

So one simple workaround I saw was was to match UDP packets at specific 
sizes.  Every single G.711 RTP packet my phone sends is a UDP packet 
that's 200 bytes every time.  I'm sure it would eventually overmatch 
something, but it's simple and low cost.   The example I saw was 
matching every UDP packet from 100-400 bytes that wasn't already matched 
by some other criteria.  A quick test here worked with a rule set to 
match at exactly 200 bytesso I'm thinking rather than saying every 
mid size UDP packet is VoIP that maybe I'll match the specific sizes of 
packets in common codecs with 20ms frame sizes.



Yeah, it's more complicated than just giving the PBX a public and 
setting DSCP on every packet destined to that IP. I can't have 
everything end up in the HP queue, that will create more problems than 
the one I'm trying to solve. I need to figure out a way to identify 
the traffic and mangle DSCP on at the edge routers.


On 9/30/2014 11:04 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:


but like George, I would also be interested in some sort of rule 
that would match RTP voice traffic.   I don't see any easy way to do 
it, but wireshark seems to pick up on it reliably, so I guess there's 
a way.




+1
Seems like the easiest answer.

On 9/30/2014 11:05 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
Is the company’s PBX behind their firewall?  If you give it a 
dedicated IP address, then you can tag based on destination IP.
*From:* George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af 
<mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:55 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DiffServ and the internet
These are business customers with on-site PBXs with a VoIP 
Innovations SIP trunk. Yeah, if we were running a local switch, 
then this problem would be a whole lot easier to solve, but that's 
not what I have to work with at this point.


As far as I can tell, there's no easy way to identify the VoIP 
Innovations audio streams. They come from tons of different source 
address and use random ports from 1 to 2. And it's a mix of 
G711 and G729.


No idea, I'm just the network guy.

On 9/30/2014 9:28 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
That’s what I do, there’s another way?  We put customer ATAs on 
private IPs so it wouldn’t work if traffic bypassed our server.
Is there a configuration parameter on the SIP trunk that tells it 
to send RTP traffic directly to the endpoint?
We also have a multisite business customer that uses a hosted VoIP 
service (Star2Star) with an appliance at each site, we give each 
appliance its own public IP and tag traffic to those IPs.

*From:* Adam Moffett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:03 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DiffServ and the internet
I've been cheating up until this point.  If you force the audio to 
be bridged through your own server then you can tag all the 
traffic that goes to and from that server.  It doesn't seem to 
make a huge difference versus having RTP go straight to the 
carrier.  If you're not transcoding then the added CPU usage is 
minimal.  Faxing seems to work better if I'm not bridging the 
audio, but why am I faxing anyway, right?


I tried all kinds of stuff tonight, none were any good. I wonder 
if there's a way on MT to snoop SIP messages and look for the SIP 
contact IPs and mark those. Seems tricky. And I R no smrt enuf.


On 9/29/2014 9:37 PM, Chris Fabien via Af wrote:

Packet size and rate is pretty consistent right? Just a thought...
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 8:05 PM, George Skorup (Cyber 
Broadcasting) via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Speaking of DSCP and carriers zeroing it in the middle, I
have some VoIP Innovations trunks. I know where the SIP
messages are coming from, so I can mangle a DSCP value back
onto those packets at ingress. But the RTP traffic comes
from all over the freakin place, tons of different source
address, never the same. I've asked if they could provide a
list and pretty much got a no.

Anybody have any ideas? Any way for a MT to identify an RTP
stream and then dynamically add a mangle rule to change the
DSCP value? My MT script-fu is not strong.

Re: [AFMUG] DiffServ and the internet

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I looked at the same thing :)  The RTP header is pretty short. You've 
technically got 12 bytes of RTP header, but some of it is sequence 
number and timestamp which I don't know how you could match on.  You can 
make reasonable guesses about what the first 16 bits are going to be, 
after that you really only know the length of the rest of the header and 
the length of the payload.  I personally could not write a regexp that 
would be substantially more accurate than matching the whole packet 
length.  Maybe ask whoever wrote wireshark.


I saw this L7 match rule somewhere:

^\x80[\x01-"`-\x7f\x80-\xa2\xe0-\xff]?..*\x80

but the plain english version of that is something like, "the sequence 
starts with 0x80, then there's another byte that might match several 
patterns, and then there are some more bytes, and then another 0x80".  
Which I don't think is much better than just matching the length.  It 
also doesn't match any of my actual VoIP traffic anyway.


Here's another thought:  You can easily match SIP packets.  They contain 
plain text headers that you can match.  You could just match port 5060, 
but Google Voice and 8x8 both stopped using the standard port, so 
instead you look for content containing SIP Invite or some such.  You 
could add matching IP addresses to an address list with a 1 hour 
expiration, then subsequent rules look for the appropriately sized UDP 
packets to and from the IP addresses that you previously saw sending SIP 
packets.


/ip firewall mangle
add action=add-src-to-address-list address-list=recentSIPInvite \
address-list-timeout=1h chain=prerouting content=INVITE disabled=no \
protocol=udp
add action=accept chain=prerouting disabled=no packet-size=200 
protocol=udp \

src-address-list=recentSIPInvite
add action=accept chain=prerouting disabled=no dst-address-list=\
recentSIPInvite packet-size=200 protocol=udp

The above matches all the RTP traffic in my office.  I could probably be 
more accurate than watching for the string "INVITE" and I could narrow 
the field of packets that are worth spending CPU on content 
matching.but it works.



Is there no way to make an L7 rule to do this?

Here's what Wireshark gives me. Can't I do something with this 
information?



On 9/30/2014 4:05 PM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:
So one simple workaround I saw was was to match UDP packets at 
specific sizes.  Every single G.711 RTP packet my phone sends is a 
UDP packet that's 200 bytes every time.  I'm sure it would eventually 
overmatch something, but it's simple and low cost. The example I saw 
was matching every UDP packet from 100-400 bytes that wasn't already 
matched by some other criteria.  A quick test here worked with a rule 
set to match at exactly 200 bytesso I'm thinking rather than 
saying every mid size UDP packet is VoIP that maybe I'll match the 
specific sizes of packets in common codecs with 20ms frame sizes.



Yeah, it's more complicated than just giving the PBX a public and 
setting DSCP on every packet destined to that IP. I can't have 
everything end up in the HP queue, that will create more problems 
than the one I'm trying to solve. I need to figure out a way to 
identify the traffic and mangle DSCP on at the edge routers.


On 9/30/2014 11:04 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:


but like George, I would also be interested in some sort of 
rule that would match RTP voice traffic.   I don't see any easy way 
to do it, but wireshark seems to pick up on it reliably, so I guess 
there's a way.




+1
Seems like the easiest answer.

On 9/30/2014 11:05 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
Is the company’s PBX behind their firewall?  If you give it a 
dedicated IP address, then you can tag based on destination IP.
*From:* George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via Af 
<mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:55 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DiffServ and the internet
These are business customers with on-site PBXs with a VoIP 
Innovations SIP trunk. Yeah, if we were running a local switch, 
then this problem would be a whole lot easier to solve, but 
that's not what I have to work with at this point.


As far as I can tell, there's no easy way to identify the VoIP 
Innovations audio streams. They come from tons of different 
source address and use random ports from 1 to 2. And it's 
a mix of G711 and G729.


No idea, I'm just the network guy.

On 9/30/2014 9:28 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
That’s what I do, there’s another way? We put customer ATAs on 
private IPs so it wouldn’t work if traffic bypassed our server.
Is there a configuration parameter on the SIP trunk that tells 
it to send RTP traffic directly to the endpoint?
We also have a multisite business customer that uses a hosted 
VoIP service (Star2Star) with an appliance at each sit

Re: [AFMUG] DiffServ and the internet

[Adam Moffett via Af]

They doif Mikrotik can do that, then I don't know how.

Surely the SIP messages will contain the IP addresses of the re-invite 
for the RTP stream. Any way to reliably pull those?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


*From: *"Adam Moffett via Af" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Wednesday, October 1, 2014 8:40:14 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DiffServ and the internet

I looked at the same thing :)  The RTP header is pretty short.  You've 
technically got 12 bytes of RTP header, but some of it is sequence 
number and timestamp which I don't know how you could match on.  You 
can make reasonable guesses about what the first 16 bits are going to 
be, after that you really only know the length of the rest of the 
header and the length of the payload.  I personally could not write a 
regexp that would be substantially more accurate than matching the 
whole packet length.  Maybe ask whoever wrote wireshark.


I saw this L7 match rule somewhere:
^\x80[\x01-"`-\x7f\x80-\xa2\xe0-\xff]?..*\x80
but the plain english version of that is something like, "the sequence 
starts with 0x80, then there's another byte that might match several 
patterns, and then there are some more bytes, and then another 0x80".  
Which I don't think is much better than just matching the length.  It 
also doesn't match any of my actual VoIP traffic anyway.


Here's another thought:  You can easily match SIP packets. They 
contain plain text headers that you can match.  You could just match 
port 5060, but Google Voice and 8x8 both stopped using the standard 
port, so instead you look for content containing SIP Invite or some 
such.  You could add matching IP addresses to an address list with a 1 
hour expiration, then subsequent rules look for the appropriately 
sized UDP packets to and from the IP addresses that you previously saw 
sending SIP packets.


/ip firewall mangle
add action=add-src-to-address-list address-list=recentSIPInvite \
address-list-timeout=1h chain=prerouting content=INVITE disabled=no \
protocol=udp
add action=accept chain=prerouting disabled=no packet-size=200 
protocol=udp \

src-address-list=recentSIPInvite
add action=accept chain=prerouting disabled=no dst-address-list=\
recentSIPInvite packet-size=200 protocol=udp

The above matches all the RTP traffic in my office.  I could probably 
be more accurate than watching for the string "INVITE" and I could 
narrow the field of packets that are worth spending CPU on content 
matching.but it works.


Is there no way to make an L7 rule to do this?

Here's what Wireshark gives me. Can't I do something with this
information?


On 9/30/2014 4:05 PM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:

So one simple workaround I saw was was to match UDP packets at
specific sizes.  Every single G.711 RTP packet my phone sends
is a UDP packet that's 200 bytes every time.  I'm sure it
would eventually overmatch something, but it's simple and low
cost.   The example I saw was matching every UDP packet from
100-400 bytes that wasn't already matched by some other
criteria.  A quick test here worked with a rule set to match
at exactly 200 bytesso I'm thinking rather than saying
every mid size UDP packet is VoIP that maybe I'll match the
specific sizes of packets in common codecs with 20ms frame sizes.


Yeah, it's more complicated than just giving the PBX a
public and setting DSCP on every packet destined to that
IP. I can't have everything end up in the HP queue, that
will create more problems than the one I'm trying to
solve. I need to figure out a way to identify the traffic
and mangle DSCP on at the edge routers.

On 9/30/2014 11:04 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:


but like George, I would also be interested in
some sort of rule that would match RTP voice
traffic.   I don't see any easy way to do it, but
wireshark seems to pick up on it reliably, so I guess
there's a way.


+1
Seems like the easiest answer.

On 9/30/2014 11:05 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:

Is the company’s PBX behind their firewall? 
If you give it a dedicated IP address, then

you can tag based on destination IP.
*From:* George Skorup (Cyber Broadcasting) via
Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:55 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com&

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Hotspot interfering with AirControl

[Adam Moffett via Af]

You need to add a hostpot bypass rule for the network that you don't 
want subjected to the hotspot.



Can it be disabled?

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Rory Conaway via Af > wrote:


Apparently Miktotik employs something called ARP poisoning as a
default.  Just letting anyone know that might run into this.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway via Af
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:29 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Hotspot interfering with AirControl

We are on the inside with our laptops on static IP addresses.  It
kills the laptop from talking to the AP directly.  Just trying to
figure out how that’s happening.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jerry
Richardson (airCloud) via Af
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:38 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Hotspot interfering with AirControl

I believe you will have to manipulate the firewall and walled garden

On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Rory Conaway via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

When we turn on the hotspot, AirControl goes offline and all the
APs are on a different subnet.  We can’t even log into the APs. 
Haven’t checked with WireShark yet but just wondering if this is

simply a setting or some function of the software?

Rory Conaway
Triad Wireless
4226 S. 37th Street
Phoenix, Az.  85040
602-426-0542 
r...@triadwireless.net 
www.triadwireless.net 

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Hotspot interfering with AirControl

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Did that help any?

I was thinking of this one:
/ip hotspot ip-binding
add address=192.168.1.0/24 type=bypassed disabled=no

replace 192.168.1.0/24 with the network where your unifi stuff lives

I have not tried this with UniFi in particular, but I do know that this 
will allow that subnet to function without logging or seeing the splash 
page.  I've used it to allow management access to equipment, IP cameras, 
etc.  Without the bypass rule, no device can do anything unless it can 
open a web browser and log in first.




This was one option I found.

/ip hotspot

set 0 address-pool=none

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett via Af
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 01, 2014 8:44 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Hotspot interfering with AirControl

You need to add a hostpot bypass rule for the network that you don't 
want subjected to the hotspot.


Can it be disabled?

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Rory Conaway via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Apparently Miktotik employs something called ARP poisoning as a
default.  Just letting anyone know that might run into this.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway via Af
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:29 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Hotspot interfering with AirControl

We are on the inside with our laptops on static IP addresses.  It
kills the laptop from talking to the AP directly.  Just trying to
figure out how that’s happening.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jerry
Richardson (airCloud) via Af
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:38 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Hotspot interfering with AirControl

I believe you will have to manipulate the firewall and walled garden

On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Rory Conaway via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

When we turn on the hotspot, AirControl goes offline and all the
APs are on a different subnet.  We can’t even log into the APs. 
Haven’t checked with WireShark yet but just wondering if this is

simply a setting or some function of the software?

Rory Conaway
Triad Wireless
4226 S. 37th Street
Phoenix, Az.  85040
602-426-0542 
r...@triadwireless.net <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net>

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Hotspot interfering with AirControl

[Adam Moffett via Af]

It might use ARP spoofing, I don't recall if the docs ever specified how 
it does it, but I know the hotspot service will break absolutely 
everything plugged into that interface unless you add a bypass rule for it.


I don't think that address-pool=none is going to do what you think.

We won’t be able to test until after 5pm tonight but I’ll let you 
know.  I’m just trying to figure out how the devices are getting 
affected on a different subnet from the hotspot DHCP users.


Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett via Af
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 01, 2014 9:25 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Hotspot interfering with AirControl

Did that help any?

I was thinking of this one:
/ip hotspot ip-binding
add address=192.168.1.0/24 type=bypassed disabled=no

replace 192.168.1.0/24 with the network where your unifi stuff lives

I have not tried this with UniFi in particular, but I do know that 
this will allow that subnet to function without logging or seeing the 
splash page.  I've used it to allow management access to equipment, IP 
cameras, etc.  Without the bypass rule, no device can do anything 
unless it can open a web browser and log in first.


This was one option I found.

/ip hotspot

set 0 address-pool=none

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam
    Moffett via Af
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 01, 2014 8:44 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Hotspot interfering with AirControl

You need to add a hostpot bypass rule for the network that you
don't want subjected to the hotspot.

Can it be disabled?

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Rory Conaway via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Apparently Miktotik employs something called ARP poisoning as
a default.  Just letting anyone know that might run into this.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Rory Conaway via Af
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:29 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Hotspot interfering with
AirControl

We are on the inside with our laptops on static IP addresses. 
It kills the laptop from talking to the AP directly.  Just

trying to figure out how that’s happening.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jerry
Richardson (airCloud) via Af
*Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:38 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik Hotspot interfering with
AirControl

I believe you will have to manipulate the firewall and walled
garden

On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Rory Conaway via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

When we turn on the hotspot, AirControl goes offline and all
the APs are on a different subnet.  We can’t even log into the
APs.  Haven’t checked with WireShark yet but just wondering if
this is simply a setting or some function of the software?

Rory Conaway
Triad Wireless
4226 S. 37th Street
Phoenix, Az.  85040
602-426-0542 
r...@triadwireless.net <mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>
www.triadwireless.net <http://www.triadwireless.net>

Re: [AFMUG] Cacti Template for ePMP?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

They mentioned that in Albany.  It was mentioned along the lines of, "I 
have no idea why our product doesn't already do that".  I don't recall 
whether they said it was on the roadmap or not.



Not that kind of compatibility.

What I'm thinking of is where I could replace an existing 802.11 AP 
with an ePMP AP, and have existing 802.11 clients connect without 
having to do a truck roll to every client.  At least not right away.


bp

On 10/1/2014 9:57 AM, SmarterBroadband via Af wrote:
At the ePMP training day I went on they said FSK sync compatibility 
was high on there list.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince via Af
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 9:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cacti Template for ePMP?

Not yet.  We are not on the ePMP bandwagon yet.  I've got a couple of 
sites that I would consider it for when it comes time to split existing

802.11 sectors we have, but compatibility concerns are holding me back.

bp

On 10/1/2014 8:57 AM, Matt Jenkins via Af wrote:

Has anyone made and willing to share a cacti template for ePMP?

Re: [AFMUG] Ubnt Unifi AC Ceiling Bracket

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I haven't seen the AC units.  The unifi AP's I've seen have a round 
aluminum ceiling bracket.  Is that one plastic?


Anyone have an extra one of these lying around or know where I could 
purchase one? Came home to find my AP hanging from the ceiling because 
one of the clips broke somehow. :(

Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Does anybody have a btest server on gigE with upload capacity to spare?

I wanted to test download on a new gigE link.  I got 350meg on 
Sterling's.  Thanks Sterling.



I have  an open one at 50.114.231.72

I think it’s good for at least 300-400Mbps.

I’ve seen it go as high as 1.2Gbps.

So it just depends what your router/carrier is to us at that IP.

*From:* af@afmug.com [mailto:af@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:28 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

How much speed are you looking for?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Image removed by sender. Image removed 
by sender. 
Image 
removed by sender. 
Image removed 
by sender. 




*From: *"Paul McCall" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:21:36 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

Anyone have a TIK with the Bandwidth Server enabled we can test to ? 
We just need a more reliable test (Mikrotik) vs. using speedtest.net  
and the like


Paul

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800 office

772-473-0352 cell

www.pdmnet.com 

pa...@pdmnet.net 

Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Also, if anybody can hit me with a btest on 208.99.240.158 I'm curious 
what you can get on it.




Does anybody have a btest server on gigE with upload capacity to spare?

I wanted to test download on a new gigE link.  I got 350meg on 
Sterling's.  Thanks Sterling.



I have  an open one at 50.114.231.72

I think it’s good for at least 300-400Mbps.

I’ve seen it go as high as 1.2Gbps.

So it just depends what your router/carrier is to us at that IP.

*From:* af@afmug.com [mailto:af@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:28 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

How much speed are you looking for?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Image removed by sender. Image 
removed by sender. 
Image 
removed by sender. 
Image 
removed by sender. 




*From: *"Paul McCall" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:21:36 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

Anyone have a TIK with the Bandwidth Server enabled we can test to ?  
We just need a more reliable test (Mikrotik) vs. using speedtest.net  
and the like


Paul

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800 office

772-473-0352 cell

www.pdmnet.com 

pa...@pdmnet.net 

Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

awesome, thanks guys.

Both are results from RB1100AHx2 routers in our network directly 
behind the Cisco. You can traceroute the IPs to see what path you take 
to get there.

Matthew Jenkins
SmarterBroadband
m...@sbbinc.net
530.272.4000
On 10/01/2014 11:35 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:


Also, if anybody can hit me with a btest on 208.99.240.158 I'm 
curious what you can get on it.




Does anybody have a btest server on gigE with upload capacity to spare?

I wanted to test download on a new gigE link.  I got 350meg on 
Sterling's.  Thanks Sterling.



I have an open one at 50.114.231.72

I think it’s good for at least 300-400Mbps.

I’ve seen it go as high as 1.2Gbps.

So it just depends what your router/carrier is to us at that IP.

*From:* af@afmug.com [mailto:af@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:28 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

How much speed are you looking for?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Image removed by sender. <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>Image 
removed by sender. 
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>Image 
removed by sender. 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>Image 
removed by sender. <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>




*From: *"Paul McCall" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:21:36 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

Anyone have a TIK with the Bandwidth Server enabled we can test to 
?  We just need a more reliable test (Mikrotik) vs. using 
speedtest.net  and the like


Paul

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800 office

772-473-0352 cell

www.pdmnet.com <http://www.pdmnet.com/>

pa...@pdmnet.net <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>

Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

That IP has a 1gig CIR on a 10Gig port. I haven't seen that symptom 
before, but I wonder if it's something to do with the 10gig SFP.


Anyone see this before on CCR routers? I'm on 6.19 and when running 
UDP bandwidth to you, it shows 8.4 Gbps but the interface shows 990 
Mbps. WinBox glitch or firmware glitch? I was going to find this email 
myself to test our two new GigE circuits from Cogent and HE. Look like 
my testing is working well from both our connections.


If any of you want to do some extended testing to our circuits, I 
would appreciate your results as well. Two IP's located below. Thanks


216.66.74.242  Hurricane Circuit
38.88.189.18  Cogent Circuit



On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Adam Moffett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:



awesome, thanks guys.


Both are results from RB1100AHx2 routers in our network directly
behind the Cisco. You can traceroute the IPs to see what path you
take to get there.
Matthew Jenkins
SmarterBroadband
m...@sbbinc.net  <mailto:m...@sbbinc.net>
530.272.4000  
On 10/01/2014 11:35 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:


Also, if anybody can hit me with a btest on 208.99.240.158 I'm
curious what you can get on it.



Does anybody have a btest server on gigE with upload capacity
to spare?

I wanted to test download on a new gigE link.  I got 350meg on
Sterling's.  Thanks Sterling.


I have  an open one at 50.114.231.72

I think it’s good for at least 300-400Mbps.

I’ve seen it go as high as 1.2Gbps.

So it just depends what your router/carrier is to us at that IP.

*From:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
[mailto:af@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:28 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

How much speed are you looking for?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Image removed by sender. <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>Image
removed by sender.
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>Image
removed by sender.
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>Image
removed by sender. <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>



*From: *"Paul McCall"  <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:21:36 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

Anyone have a TIK with the Bandwidth Server enabled we can
test to ?  We just need a more reliable test (Mikrotik) vs.
using speedtest.net <http://speedtest.net> and the like

Paul

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  office

772-473-0352  cell

www.pdmnet.com <http://www.pdmnet.com/>

pa...@pdmnet.net <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>












--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/>
507-634-WiFi
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook 
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>

Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I got "Auth Failed" on your HE circuit.
Tools->Btest Server, uncheck authenticate.

For some reason I can't connect to the Cogent IP eitherbut no error 
message.  Just says "connecting" at the bottom of the window.


Anyone see this before on CCR routers? I'm on 6.19 and when running 
UDP bandwidth to you, it shows 8.4 Gbps but the interface shows 990 
Mbps. WinBox glitch or firmware glitch? I was going to find this email 
myself to test our two new GigE circuits from Cogent and HE. Look like 
my testing is working well from both our connections.


If any of you want to do some extended testing to our circuits, I 
would appreciate your results as well. Two IP's located below. Thanks


216.66.74.242  Hurricane Circuit
38.88.189.18  Cogent Circuit



On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Adam Moffett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:



awesome, thanks guys.


Both are results from RB1100AHx2 routers in our network directly
behind the Cisco. You can traceroute the IPs to see what path you
take to get there.
Matthew Jenkins
SmarterBroadband
m...@sbbinc.net  <mailto:m...@sbbinc.net>
530.272.4000  
On 10/01/2014 11:35 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:


Also, if anybody can hit me with a btest on 208.99.240.158 I'm
curious what you can get on it.



Does anybody have a btest server on gigE with upload capacity
to spare?

I wanted to test download on a new gigE link.  I got 350meg on
Sterling's.  Thanks Sterling.


I have  an open one at 50.114.231.72

I think it’s good for at least 300-400Mbps.

I’ve seen it go as high as 1.2Gbps.

So it just depends what your router/carrier is to us at that IP.

*From:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
[mailto:af@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:28 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

How much speed are you looking for?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Image removed by sender. <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>Image
removed by sender.
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>Image
removed by sender.
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>Image
removed by sender. <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>



*From: *"Paul McCall"  <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:21:36 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

Anyone have a TIK with the Bandwidth Server enabled we can
test to ?  We just need a more reliable test (Mikrotik) vs.
using speedtest.net <http://speedtest.net> and the like

Paul

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  office

772-473-0352  cell

www.pdmnet.com <http://www.pdmnet.com/>

pa...@pdmnet.net <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>












--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/>
507-634-WiFi
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook 
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>

Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

2.5gig up towards your cogent circuit. 970meg down towards me.  And by 
the way, when my speed test went above a gig the display in winbox said 
8.4gig just like you reported earlier.  I read 2.5gig off the interface 
stats.  I guess they only set my CIR in the download direction.


On HE also 970meg towards me.  Again 2.5gig up, and again as soon as the 
test throttled up above 1gig the display went bananas.


Thanks for letting me use that.


Anyone see this before on CCR routers? I'm on 6.19 and when running 
UDP bandwidth to you, it shows 8.4 Gbps but the interface shows 990 
Mbps. WinBox glitch or firmware glitch? I was going to find this email 
myself to test our two new GigE circuits from Cogent and HE. Look like 
my testing is working well from both our connections.


If any of you want to do some extended testing to our circuits, I 
would appreciate your results as well. Two IP's located below. Thanks


216.66.74.242  Hurricane Circuit
38.88.189.18  Cogent Circuit



On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Adam Moffett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:



awesome, thanks guys.


Both are results from RB1100AHx2 routers in our network directly
behind the Cisco. You can traceroute the IPs to see what path you
take to get there.
Matthew Jenkins
SmarterBroadband
m...@sbbinc.net  <mailto:m...@sbbinc.net>
530.272.4000  
    On 10/01/2014 11:35 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:


Also, if anybody can hit me with a btest on 208.99.240.158 I'm
curious what you can get on it.



Does anybody have a btest server on gigE with upload capacity
to spare?

I wanted to test download on a new gigE link.  I got 350meg on
Sterling's.  Thanks Sterling.


I have  an open one at 50.114.231.72

I think it’s good for at least 300-400Mbps.

I’ve seen it go as high as 1.2Gbps.

So it just depends what your router/carrier is to us at that IP.

*From:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
[mailto:af@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:28 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

How much speed are you looking for?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Image removed by sender. <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>Image
removed by sender.
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>Image
removed by sender.
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>Image
removed by sender. <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>



*From: *"Paul McCall"  <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:21:36 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

Anyone have a TIK with the Bandwidth Server enabled we can
test to ?  We just need a more reliable test (Mikrotik) vs.
using speedtest.net <http://speedtest.net> and the like

Paul

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  office

772-473-0352  cell

www.pdmnet.com <http://www.pdmnet.com/>

pa...@pdmnet.net <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>












--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/>
507-634-WiFi
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook 
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>

Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Weirdmine is also a CCR, but the tests do run faster than 400 from 
here.  Maybe you were hitting 400 because I was testing to yours at the 
same time?


Also, I'm running a CCR and it appears the Bandwidth Test only uses 1 
CPU so the TCP tests are capped between 350-400 no matter what I do. 
Running UDP though I see the full Gig to other servers. Running 
speedtest.net <http://speedtest.net> to a server and newsgroups also 
achieves the full Gig so the CCR's CPU limits the bandwidth test with 
TCP testing. If you can, run a traceroute from you to us as well and 
the results. Thank you all


On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Darin Steffl via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Adam,

I believe I fixed both items there. Try again. Thanks

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:17 PM, TJ Trout via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Adam,

350 down 10 up?

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:35 AM, Adam Moffett via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Also, if anybody can hit me with a btest on 208.99.240.158
I'm curious what you can get on it.



Does anybody have a btest server on gigE with upload
capacity to spare?

I wanted to test download on a new gigE link.  I got
350meg on Sterling's.  Thanks Sterling.


I have  an open one at 50.114.231.72

I think it’s good for at least 300-400Mbps.

I’ve seen it go as high as 1.2Gbps.

So it just depends what your router/carrier is to us at
that IP.

*From:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
[mailto:af@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:28 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

How much speed are you looking for?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Image removed by sender.
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>Image removed by sender.
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>Image
removed by sender.

<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>Image
removed by sender. <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>




*From: *"Paul McCall" 
<mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:21:36 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

Anyone have a TIK with the Bandwidth Server enabled we
can test to ?  We just need a more reliable test
(Mikrotik) vs. using speedtest.net
<http://speedtest.net>  and the like

Paul

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  office

772-473-0352  cell

www.pdmnet.com <http://www.pdmnet.com/>

pa...@pdmnet.net <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>









-- 
Darin Steffl

Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/>
507-634-WiFi
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>




--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/>
507-634-WiFi
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook 
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>

Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Apparently I can get 2.5gig outbound to Darin Steffl, so knock yourself out.
208.99.240.158

There's no traffic on it yet except all these speedtests :)

Anyone have a 10G btest server I can play with using my CCR on a 1G 
pipe? Wanted to test late at night against something with atleast 1 
gig fully available.




On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Darin Steffl via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Also, I'm running a CCR and it appears the Bandwidth Test only
uses 1 CPU so the TCP tests are capped between 350-400 no matter
what I do. Running UDP though I see the full Gig to other servers.
Running speedtest.net <http://speedtest.net> to a server and
newsgroups also achieves the full Gig so the CCR's CPU limits the
bandwidth test with TCP testing. If you can, run a traceroute from
you to us as well and the results. Thank you all

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Darin Steffl via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Adam,

I believe I fixed both items there. Try again. Thanks

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:17 PM, TJ Trout via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Adam,

350 down 10 up?

    On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:35 AM, Adam Moffett via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Also, if anybody can hit me with a btest on
208.99.240.158 I'm curious what you can get on it.



Does anybody have a btest server on gigE with upload
capacity to spare?

I wanted to test download on a new gigE link.  I got
350meg on Sterling's.  Thanks Sterling.


I have  an open one at 50.114.231.72

I think it’s good for at least 300-400Mbps.

I’ve seen it go as high as 1.2Gbps.

So it just depends what your router/carrier is to us
at that IP.

*From:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
[mailto:af@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:28 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

How much speed are you looking for?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Image removed by sender.
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>Image removed by
sender.

<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>Image
removed by sender.

<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>Image
removed by sender. <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>




*From: *"Paul McCall" 
<mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:21:36 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

Anyone have a TIK with the Bandwidth Server enabled
we can test to ?  We just need a more reliable test
(Mikrotik) vs. using speedtest.net
<http://speedtest.net>  and the like

Paul

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  office

772-473-0352  cell

www.pdmnet.com <http://www.pdmnet.com/>

pa...@pdmnet.net <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>









-- 
Darin Steffl

Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/>
507-634-WiFi
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>




-- 
Darin Steffl

Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/>
507-634-WiFi
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>

Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Well...we're putting live traffic on it at 2AM EST.  So you can do 
whatever you want until then, but we probably can't leave the btest 
server open after 2am.
That's weird that you showed 2.5G out to my circuits as they're both 
GigE circuits for transit and also transport. We are using 1G SFP's so 
I don't see how it's physically possible for you to send us 2.5G of 
data when none of the links or hardware support it. Weird


Thanks for letting me test against yours as well. I have no live 
traffic yet as we're still testing. I will probably do a bandwidth 
test full duplex 1G between our two circuits and let it go for awhile 
to monitor it. We'll see how many TB's of data I can move in 24 hours :)


On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Adam Moffett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:



Apparently I can get 2.5gig outbound to Darin Steffl, so knock
yourself out.
208.99.240.158

There's no traffic on it yet except all these speedtests :)


Anyone have a 10G btest server I can play with using my CCR on a
1G pipe? Wanted to test late at night against something with
atleast 1 gig fully available.



On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Darin Steffl via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Also, I'm running a CCR and it appears the Bandwidth Test
only uses 1 CPU so the TCP tests are capped between 350-400
no matter what I do. Running UDP though I see the full Gig to
other servers. Running speedtest.net <http://speedtest.net>
to a server and newsgroups also achieves the full Gig so the
CCR's CPU limits the bandwidth test with TCP testing. If you
can, run a traceroute from you to us as well and the results.
Thank you all

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Darin Steffl via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Adam,

I believe I fixed both items there. Try again. Thanks

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 2:17 PM, TJ Trout via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

    Adam,

    350 down 10 up?

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 11:35 AM, Adam Moffett via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


Also, if anybody can hit me with a btest on
208.99.240.158 I'm curious what you can get on it.



Does anybody have a btest server on gigE with
upload capacity to spare?

I wanted to test download on a new gigE link.  I
got 350meg on Sterling's. Thanks Sterling.


I have  an open one at 50.114.231.72

I think it’s good for at least 300-400Mbps.

I’ve seen it go as high as 1.2Gbps.

So it just depends what your router/carrier is
to us at that IP.

*From:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
[mailto:af@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:28 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BTEST server in the
Internet ?

How much speed are you looking for?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Image removed by sender.
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>Image removed
by sender.

<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>Image
removed by sender.

<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>Image
removed by sender. <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>




*From: *"Paul McCall" 
<mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:21:36 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] BTEST server in the Internet ?

Anyone have a TIK with the Bandwidth Server
enabled we can test to ?  We just need a more
reliable test (Mikrotik) vs. using
speedtest.net <http://speedtest.net>  and the like

Paul

Paul McCall, Pres.

PDMNet / Florida Broadband

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  office

772-473-0352  cell

www

Re: [AFMUG] more cable companies cut the tv cord

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I might do the same thing if I was a cable company with a couple hundred 
subscribers.

Or maybe only carry channels I could get free or cheap.

They ought to be able to carry a few gbps on their coax if they dropped 
TV and ran DOCSIS 3 on every channel.



- Original Message -
*From:* Jay Fuller - Cyber Broadband Inc 


*To:* Cyber Broadband Inc. 
*Sent:* Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:42 AM
*Subject:* more cable companies cut the tv cord


  More Cable Companies Take TV Off Menu

4 hrs ago - AP
A growing group of small cable-TV providers are realizing that both 
they and their customers can live without expensive TV channels.


Of the 100 million homes in the U.S. that subscribe to pay TV, about 
14% are served by smaller companies that have a million or fewer 
customers. In some cases, they serve fewer than 100. Faced with rising 
programming costs, some of those companies---such as Ringgold 
Telephone Co. in Georgia and BTC Broadband in Bixby, Okla.---have 
pulled the plug on TV service altogether, preferring to simply focus 
on Internet and phone service.


Others, meanwhile, are dropping major groups of channels to manage 
their costs. The latest is Suddenlink Communications, an operator that 
serves about one million customers, which says it plans to dropViacom 
Inc.'s TV channels, including Nickelodeon and MTV, at midnight 
Tuesday. Suddenlink says it has already signed long-term contracts 
with other channels to fill the Viacom channels' slots.


The shift poses a potential threat to big media companies. These cable 
providers are tiny compared with industry titans like Comcast Corp., 
but the fees they pay media companies for rights to carry programming 
add up. Cable channel owners---which include major media companies 
such as Walt Disney Co. and Time Warner Inc.---this year will collect 
a total of $35 billion in license fees, according to SNL Kagan. But 
that figure could erode if more small players give up on offering 
customers the big TV bundle.


After seven years of selling customers cable-TV services, BTC 
Broadband got out of that business late last year and now provides 
just broadband and phone services. The Oklahoma company, which had 
been serving about 420 TV subscribers, decided it simply couldn't 
afford to keep paying rising fees to carry a basic lineup of channels 
including ESPN, TNT and MTV.


BTC President Scott Floyd estimated that if the company continued to 
pass on rising programming costs to consumers and maintained its thin 
profit margins, by 2016 cable-TV bills would rise to $130 from about $60.


"I think the TV model is broken," said Mr. Floyd.

In five years, operators representing about 5 million pay-TV 
subscribers---5% of current pay TV households---will "no longer be 
doing business the way they do today with video," estimates Rich 
Fickle, chief executive of the National Cable Television Cooperative, 
a consortium that negotiates programming deals on behalf of about 915 
small cable-TV providers.


A loss of 5% of households in a few years could shave off about $2.4 
billion in revenue for basic cable networks alone, which by 2018 would 
be raking in about $47 billion in carriage fees, according to SNL 
Kagan estimates.


"The change in the market is going to come from the bottom," said 
NCTC's Mr. Fickle. Bigger pay-TV companies like Comcast and DirecTV 
aren't likely to make similar moves away from pay-TV service, he said, 
because they enjoy better profit margins and are busy pursuing big 
mergers.


Some operators say they are gradually being pushed out of the TV 
business as subscribers drop their expensive TV subscriptions and 
watch shows on cheaper Internet video services.


Those who have exited completely say that while many customers 
switched to satellite service, a growing number simply migrate to 
online video.


Missouri-based Boycom Cablevision Inc. has sold cable-TV service since 
the early 1990s, but now counts only 1,000 TV customers out of its 
total 5,000 subscribers. "We have truly morphed into a broadband-only 
provider in a lot of our markets," says Patty Boyers, co-founder of 
Boycom.


Tom Might, chief executive of Graham Holdings Co.'s CableOne, which 
serves nearly 700,000 subscribers in 19 states, says reducing emphasis 
on video service in favor of broadband has led to higher profits, even 
though some customers were lost in the process. The "trends are kind 
of hard to fight," he said. "Better to join them and make your profit 
where the business is growing."


Since 2008, small telecom companies representing about 53,000 
customers have shut off cable-TV services or gone out of business, 
according to the NCTC. Over the last three years, the number of 
customers affected by such decisions has accelerated.


At least one midsize operator, Cablevision Systems Corp., which serves 
nearly 3 million TV customers in the New York metropolitan area,

Re: [AFMUG] more cable companies cut the tv cord

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I think they're getting more like 30mbps in a 5mhz channel now, with a 
guardband.  Here's a little tidbit from Wikipedia:


DOCSIS 3.1
   Released October 2013, plans support capacities of at least 10
   Gbit/s downstream and 1 Gbit/s upstream using 4096 QAM
   <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrature_amplitude_modulation>. The
   new specs will do away with 6 MHz and 8 MHz wide channel spacing and
   instead use smaller (20 kHz to 50 kHz wide) orthogonal
   frequency-division multiplexing
   <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthogonal_frequency-division_multiplexing>
   (OFDM) subcarriers; these can be bonded inside a block spectrum that
   could end up being about 200 MHz wide.^[5]
   <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS#cite_note-5> 

^That's a lotta capacity if they can dump enough TV channels to free up 
a contiguous 200mhz.


That's what I was thinking as well. The comments about margin pressure 
were interesting.  Carrying TV impacts that significantly, plus as you 
say, each HD TV channel eats about 6 Mbps of cable capacity.  100 
channels = 600 Mbps.


bp

On 10/2/2014 7:38 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote:
I might do the same thing if I was a cable company with a couple 
hundred subscribers.

Or maybe only carry channels I could get free or cheap.

They ought to be able to carry a few gbps on their coax if they 
dropped TV and ran DOCSIS 3 on every channel.



- Original Message -
*From:* Jay Fuller - Cyber Broadband Inc 
<mailto:jayful...@cyberbroadband.net>

*To:* Cyber Broadband Inc. <mailto:voicemailgr...@cyberbroadband.net>
*Sent:* Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:42 AM
*Subject:* more cable companies cut the tv cord


  More Cable Companies Take TV Off Menu

4 hrs ago - AP
A growing group of small cable-TV providers are realizing that both 
they and their customers can live without expensive TV channels.


Of the 100 million homes in the U.S. that subscribe to pay TV, about 
14% are served by smaller companies that have a million or fewer 
customers. In some cases, they serve fewer than 100. Faced with 
rising programming costs, some of those companies---such as Ringgold 
Telephone Co. in Georgia and BTC Broadband in Bixby, Okla.---have 
pulled the plug on TV service altogether, preferring to simply focus 
on Internet and phone service.


Others, meanwhile, are dropping major groups of channels to manage 
their costs. The latest is Suddenlink Communications, an operator 
that serves about one million customers, which says it plans to 
dropViacom Inc.'s TV channels, including Nickelodeon and MTV, at 
midnight Tuesday. Suddenlink says it has already signed long-term 
contracts with other channels to fill the Viacom channels' slots.


The shift poses a potential threat to big media companies. These 
cable providers are tiny compared with industry titans like Comcast 
Corp., but the fees they pay media companies for rights to carry 
programming add up. Cable channel owners---which include major media 
companies such as Walt Disney Co. and Time Warner Inc.---this year 
will collect a total of $35 billion in license fees, according to 
SNL Kagan. But that figure could erode if more small players give up 
on offering customers the big TV bundle.


After seven years of selling customers cable-TV services, BTC 
Broadband got out of that business late last year and now provides 
just broadband and phone services. The Oklahoma company, which had 
been serving about 420 TV subscribers, decided it simply couldn't 
afford to keep paying rising fees to carry a basic lineup of 
channels including ESPN, TNT and MTV.


BTC President Scott Floyd estimated that if the company continued to 
pass on rising programming costs to consumers and maintained its 
thin profit margins, by 2016 cable-TV bills would rise to $130 from 
about $60.


"I think the TV model is broken," said Mr. Floyd.

In five years, operators representing about 5 million pay-TV 
subscribers---5% of current pay TV households---will "no longer be 
doing business the way they do today with video," estimates Rich 
Fickle, chief executive of the National Cable Television 
Cooperative, a consortium that negotiates programming deals on 
behalf of about 915 small cable-TV providers.


A loss of 5% of households in a few years could shave off about $2.4 
billion in revenue for basic cable networks alone, which by 2018 
would be raking in about $47 billion in carriage fees, according to 
SNL Kagan estimates.


"The change in the market is going to come from the bottom," said 
NCTC's Mr. Fickle. Bigger pay-TV companies like Comcast and DirecTV 
aren't likely to make similar moves away from pay-TV service, he 
said, because they enjoy better profit margins and are busy pursuing 
big mergers.


Some operators say they are gradually being pushed out of the TV 
business as subscribers drop their expensive TV subscriptions and 
watch shows on cheap

Re: [AFMUG] DNS server for guys who dont want to be gurus

[Adam Moffett via Af]

It may be 9.8.2 with security fixes backported from later versions.


I would disagree, didn’t Steve say the latest he updated to was 9.8.2?
https://kb.isc.org/article/AA-00913/0/BIND-9-Security-Vulnerability-Matrix.html
ISC shows 9.8.8 EOL as of September 2014, so 9.8.2 is quite a few 
versions old.  With all the DNS amplification attacks and these zero 
day exploits coming out all the time, I’d want to be pretty current, 
plus I believe 9.10 gives you RRL in your toolbox to deal with attacks 
although I’ll admit I haven’t had time to experiment with it.

*From:* Mike Hammett via Af 
*Sent:* Friday, October 03, 2014 6:10 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DNS server for guys who dont want to be gurus
The server based distributions like CentOS\RHEL and Debian generally 
are close to current regarding security updates even if they don't 
have the latest version.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


*From: *"Ken Hohhof via Af" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Thursday, October 2, 2014 5:30:01 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DNS server for guys who dont want to be gurus

You need a named.conf that defines the slave zones and the IP address 
of the master.
But first step is to download/compile/install the latest version of 
BIND, it’s actually quite easy.  I doubt you can get the version you 
want via yum update because CentOS is based on RHEL which is always a 
few steps behind.  Given the DNS attacks, you want the latest BIND.  
You might then want to lock out the package from being updated by yum.

*From:* That One Guy via Af 
*Sent:* Thursday, October 02, 2014 4:36 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DNS server for guys who dont want to be gurus
So Im at a new Centos with webmin fresh bind install.
We have one master, one slave server
I have never set up bind, this was done before me.
If I were to take down the old slave server and bring this one up on 
its IP will the master update this one, or is there a config I need to 
move over. Im more comfotable doing the slave first.

These are all webmin, but the original is ubuntu and the new is centos
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Paul Stewart via Af > wrote:


I always install CentOS bare bones …. “minimal server” is what the
installation will call it.  This way you can install whatever you
like after installation and not worry about removing many dozen
packages you don’t need…

Just my preference anyways….

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *That One Guy via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, October 02, 2014 2:24 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DNS server for guys who dont want to be gurus

2 questions in this

1. when running through the current centos installation, what do i
select for the server type, for powercode it says select basic server

2. is there a guide for building dedicated centos servers based on
server purpose? I assume there are packages I dont need to install
if its only got this purpose

On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Paul Stewart via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

CentOS+BIND+Webmin JI can’t remember but Usermin might be the
part you’re looking for specific to users updating their own
DNS…..

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *That One Guy via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, October 02, 2014 1:21 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] DNS server for guys who dont want to be gurus

Is there a good, simple package for locally hosted DNS Servers
for people like me who dont want to get too far into managing
the linux at a granular level? we are used to the webmin
interface. It would be nice if it had the option to set up
client accounts for some clients to manage their own DNS but
not view others, but thats in no way a deal breaker

-- 


All parts should go together without forcing. You must
remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled
by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there
must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM
maintenance manual, 1925



-- 


All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember
that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you.
Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a
reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance
manual, 1925



--
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that 
the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if 
you can't get them

Re: [AFMUG] DNS server for guys who dont want to be gurus

[Adam Moffett via Af]

simpleDNS looks cheap.  Is that a one time cost or do they do something 
recurring like annual renewals?
My predecessor had our DNS setup on SimpleDNS. I have never changed it 
because it really just always works. I have not had a SINGLE issue 
with it. Easy GUI. Simple. I will be moving to linux when I get a good 
VM server going but I am very impressed with SimpleDNS.


-Ty

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Paul McCall via Af > wrote:


I think a couple of us has mentioned SimpleDNS – 2 minute install
– just works J

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird via Af
*Sent:* Friday, October 03, 2014 9:47 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DNS server for guys who dont want to be gurus

Yeah.  RHEL/CentOS backport security patches.  To quote myself
from a previous email in this thread:

CentOS doesn't have the latest and greatest packages because it's
upstream is RHEL.  This is the nature of "enterprise linux."  They
don't have major package revisions during the entire lifecycle of
any given major version (ie, RHEL5/6/7) and they backport security
fixes and patches.

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I would disagree, didn’t Steve say the latest he updated to was 9.8.2?


https://kb.isc.org/article/AA-00913/0/BIND-9-Security-Vulnerability-Matrix.html

ISC shows 9.8.8 EOL as of September 2014, so 9.8.2 is quite a few
versions old. With all the DNS amplification attacks and these
zero day exploits coming out all the time, I’d want to be pretty
current, plus I believe 9.10 gives you RRL in your toolbox to deal
with attacks although I’ll admit I haven’t had time to experiment
with it.

*From:*Mike Hammett via Af 

*Sent:*Friday, October 03, 2014 6:10 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] DNS server for guys who dont want to be gurus

The server based distributions like CentOS\RHEL and Debian
generally are close to current regarding security updates even if
they don't have the latest version.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



*From: *"Ken Hohhof via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Thursday, October 2, 2014 5:30:01 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] DNS server for guys who dont want to be gurus

You need a named.conf that defines the slave zones and the IP
address of the master.

But first step is to download/compile/install the latest version
of BIND, it’s actually quite easy.  I doubt you can get the
version you want via yum update because CentOS is based on RHEL
which is always a few steps behind. Given the DNS attacks, you
want the latest BIND.  You might then want to lock out the package
from being updated by yum.

*From:*That One Guy via Af 

*Sent:*Thursday, October 02, 2014 4:36 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] DNS server for guys who dont want to be gurus

So Im at a new Centos with webmin fresh bind install.

We have one master, one slave server

I have never set up bind, this was done before me.

If I were to take down the old slave server and bring this one up
on its IP will the master update this one, or is there a config I
need to move over. Im more comfotable doing the slave first.

These are all webmin, but the original is ubuntu and the new is centos

On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Paul Stewart via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I always install CentOS bare bones …. “minimal server” is what the
installation will call it. This way you can install whatever you
like after installation and not worry about removing many dozen
packages you don’t need…

Just my preference anyways….

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *That One Guy via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, October 02, 2014 2:24 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DNS server for guys who dont want to be gurus

2 questions in this

1. when running through the current centos installation, what do i
select for the server type, for powercode it says select basic server

2. is there a guide for building dedicated centos servers based on
server purpose? I assume there are packages I dont need to install
if its only got this purpose

On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Paul Stewart via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

CentOS+BIND+Webmin JI can’t remember but Usermin might be the
part you’re looking for specific to users updating their own
DNS…..

*From:*

Re: [AFMUG] MARRIOTT TO PAY $600, 000 TO RESOLVE WIFI-BLOCKING INVESTIGATION

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Interesting...so the Cisco wifi controller feature that can DOS rogue 
AP's with de-auth packets might actually be a crime to use?


On 10/3/2014 1:27 PM, Hardy, Tim via Af wrote:


https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-329743A1.docx

Re: [AFMUG] MARRIOTT TO PAY $600, 000 TO RESOLVE WIFI-BLOCKING INVESTIGATION

[Adam Moffett via Af]

being a hotel might be the thing that made it a problem.  If an 
enterprise or hospital does it as a security measure, I have trouble 
believing that's illegal.



Marriott are dicks, but here's an interesting question...


broad spectrum 2.4 or 5 GHz jammers are illegal, yeah.

But is an 802.11-compliant device issuing deauth requests illegal, if 
part-15 devices are supposed to accept any unwanted interference and 
there's no recourse?


Provided that the device issuing deauth requests is operating within 
spec for EIRP, channel plan, etc.


On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Hardy, Tim via Af > wrote:


https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-329743A1.docx

Re: [AFMUG] MARRIOTT TO PAY $600, 000 TO RESOLVE WIFI-BLOCKING INVESTIGATION

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I dunno.  If Marriott was using it to force people to buy access to 
their own wifi, then that's a bit shifty.


If Lockheed Martin wants to deauth rogue AP's so nobody plugs in a wifi 
AP in the engineering department and the file server containing plans 
for the Joint Strike Fighter is suddenly exposed via wifi to somebody 
sitting in the parking lot, then I think they're justified.  I would say 
the same about any company trying to protect trade secrets or other IP.


In the law firm example where they are hurting other tenants in the 
building, that's probably not ok.  The hypothetical law firm should have 
to take steps to ensure that their wifi can't leave their own area, or 
move their practice to a fenced in compound like Lockheed.


This is not me telling you what's legaljust me saying what I think 
is fair and reasonable.  On the other hand, I guess if I was Lockhead 
Martin, I'd probably just write the FCC the $600,000 check and then send 
a bill for it to the DOD.



So then those Enterprise security types are going to have to stick to 
disabling Ethernet ports, I guess.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


*From: *"Chuck McCown via Af" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Friday, October 3, 2014 1:13:45 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] MARRIOTT TO PAY $600,000 TO RESOLVE 
WIFI-BLOCKING INVESTIGATION


“No person shall willfully or maliciously interfere with or cause 
interference to any radio communications of any station licensed or 
authorized by or under this Act or operated by the United States 
Government”
Wifi is authorized.  You don’t have the legal right to deauth any AP 
sessions but your own.  I would think the manufacturer of equipment 
that makes this possible would be just as liable as manufacturers of 
RF jammers.

*From:* Eric Kuhnke via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Friday, October 03, 2014 12:03 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] MARRIOTT TO PAY $600,000 TO RESOLVE 
WIFI-BLOCKING INVESTIGATION
Sounds like they're setting a precedent that a landlord can't operate 
rogue AP detection/automatic deauth against tenants or customers. 
Should still be fine in an enterprise environment.


Where it gets possibly weird is, let's say you're a major law firm 
that is a tenant in a large office building. You occupy half a floor. 
You operate your own enterprise wifi system and use cisco's rogue AP 
deauth feature. The tenants in the other suite (a totally separate 
business) on the other half of the same floor notice that wifi 
tethering doesn't work on any of their phones, and their pocket wifi 
hotspots don't work.
On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Hardy, Tim via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


And the actual order has more detail


http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2014/db1003/DA-14-1444A1.pdf

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Hardy, Tim via Af
*Sent:* Friday, October 03, 2014 1:46 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] MARRIOTT TO PAY $600, 000 TO RESOLVE
WIFI-BLOCKING INVESTIGATION

More information about impermissible Wi-Fi blocking or jamming
practices is available at

www.fcc.gov/jammers <http://www.fcc.gov/jammers>. If you would
like additional information about Wi-Fi blocking, you may email us at

    jammeri...@fcc.gov <mailto:jammeri...@fcc.gov>.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam
Moffett via Af
*Sent:* Friday, October 03, 2014 1:42 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] MARRIOTT TO PAY $600, 000 TO RESOLVE
WIFI-BLOCKING INVESTIGATION

being a hotel might be the thing that made it a problem.  If an
enterprise or hospital does it as a security measure, I have
trouble believing that's illegal.

Marriott are dicks, but here's an interesting question...

broad spectrum 2.4 or 5 GHz jammers are illegal, yeah.

But is an 802.11-compliant device issuing deauth requests
illegal, if part-15 devices are supposed to accept any
unwanted interference and there's no recourse?

Provided that the device issuing deauth requests is operating
within spec for EIRP, channel plan, etc.

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Hardy, Tim via Af
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-329743A1.docx

Re: [AFMUG] MARRIOTT TO PAY $600, 000 TO RESOLVE WIFI-BLOCKING INVESTIGATION

[Adam Moffett via Af]

It's an intentionally extreme example.

even further, in the example of the defence contractor's facility...  
plans for the JSF.


at minimum:

a) you would never have the plans outside of a SCIF

b) no outside equipment or wireless equipment would be allowed inside 
the SCIF


c) the SCIF would be TEMPEST rated and certified

d) people who had not gone through a full security clearance process 
would not be permitted inside the SCIF





On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Chuck McCown via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


I am guessing that if someone was going to steal secrets from a
defense contractor, they would be more sneaky than that.  I have
been in some DOD contractors’ plants where you checked your cell
phone at the front door and you did not take even a jump drive to
or from home.  Each workstation was connected via fiber.  None of
them had USB or ethernet ports.  Keyboard and mouse were hard
wired to the box.
And they all had to be turned off before guys like me got to enter
the room.  In one plant, I needed to find a software bug that was
preventing my airborne PBX from connecting to their satellite
transceiver.  I had to send my computer to them a week in advance
for them to examine before I arrived.  Then I could work on my own
computer and compiler while  in the lab.  But I didn’t get to take
anything home with me.  The examined my computer a second time and
then sent my my computer with my altered source code.
(Actually, the fix was to their system.  I was quite gleeful and
smug about that.  But I did make some comments to my code.  I
could have carried on without the latest  version of my code).
*From:* Adam Moffett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Friday, October 03, 2014 1:08 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] MARRIOTT TO PAY $600,000 TO RESOLVE
WIFI-BLOCKING INVESTIGATION
I dunno.  If Marriott was using it to force people to buy access
to their own wifi, then that's a bit shifty.

If Lockheed Martin wants to deauth rogue AP's so nobody plugs in a
wifi AP in the engineering department and the file server
containing plans for the Joint Strike Fighter is suddenly exposed
via wifi to somebody sitting in the parking lot, then I think
they're justified.  I would say the same about any company trying
to protect trade secrets or other IP.

In the law firm example where they are hurting other tenants in
the building, that's probably not ok.  The hypothetical law firm
should have to take steps to ensure that their wifi can't leave
their own area, or move their practice to a fenced in compound
like Lockheed.

This is not me telling you what's legaljust me saying what I
think is fair and reasonable. On the other hand, I guess if I was
Lockhead Martin, I'd probably just write the FCC the $600,000
check and then send a bill for it to the DOD.



So then those Enterprise security types are going to have to
stick to disabling Ethernet ports, I guess.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


*From: *"Chuck McCown via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com

*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Friday, October 3, 2014 1:13:45 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] MARRIOTT TO PAY $600,000 TO
RESOLVE WIFI-BLOCKING INVESTIGATION

“No person shall willfully or maliciously interfere with or cause
interference to any radio communications of any station licensed
or authorized by or under this Act or operated by the United
States Government”
Wifi is authorized.  You don’t have the legal right to deauth any
AP sessions but your own.  I would think the manufacturer of
equipment that makes this possible would be just as liable as
manufacturers of RF jammers.
*From:* Eric Kuhnke via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent:* Friday, October 03, 2014 12:03 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] MARRIOTT TO PAY $600,000 TO RESOLVE
WIFI-BLOCKING INVESTIGATION
Sounds like they're setting a precedent that a landlord can't
operate rogue AP detection/automatic deauth against tenants or
customers. Should still be fine in an enterprise environment.

Where it gets possibly weird is, let's say you're a major law
firm that is a tenant in a large office building. You occupy half
a floor. You operate your own enterprise wifi system and use
cisco's rogue AP deauth feature. The tenants in the other suite
(a totally separate business) on the other half of the same floor
notice that wifi tethering doesn't work on any of their phones,
and their pocket wi

[AFMUG] 450 sector

[Adam Moffett via Af]

We're actually really liking the 450 sector with the third 10dbi 
connector.  We first used it to put connectorized FSK radios on the 
tower without adding another antenna.  Since then we've discussed using 
it with ePMP or other products just to have the third connector for 
other uses.  We like the idea that we can sneak another single polarity 
5.4 or 5.7 radio up without much fuss.


I was wondering if they're going to keep making that antenna even though 
the FSK compatibility never worked out.  Has the rumor mill heard 
anything about it going away or not?  Any official word from Cambium?

Re: [AFMUG] 450 sector

[Adam Moffett via Af]

What do those go for?  Similar in price to a 450 antenna?


Alpha antennas makes a quad pol sector� hmm 450 + epmp?


Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com
@aeronetpr






On 10/3/14, 5:18 PM, "Adam Moffett via Af"  wrote:


We're actually really liking the 450 sector with the third 10dbi
connector.  We first used it to put connectorized FSK radios on the
tower without adding another antenna.  Since then we've discussed using
it with ePMP or other products just to have the third connector for
other uses.  We like the idea that we can sneak another single polarity
5.4 or 5.7 radio up without much fuss.

I was wondering if they're going to keep making that antenna even though
the FSK compatibility never worked out.  Has the rumor mill heard
anything about it going away or not?  Any official word from Cambium?

Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Product Ideas

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Or 12 port?  Anything more than 4.

Rack mount 24 port sync over power injector.  Possibly with surge protection.


On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 3:19 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via
Af  wrote:

It's been (quite) a while since I sent one of these messages out to the
list.

With the release of all of our new gigabit injectors, it is time for me to
decide which products will be next out the door at PacketFlux.

We've got several products at various stages of completion, but almost all
of them I expect to be very low volume projects - the type of products we
complete just because they help fill out our product offering instead of
expecting a lot of revenue from them.   A couple of these have appeared on
the website recently - I.E. a 2 Relay, 3 Switch module, and the
voltmeter/shunt input modules.

So, what I'd love to hear is some suggestions for products PacketFlux could
build which would help you in your WISP.   I'm particularly looking for
products which if they existed would go at every one of your tower sites, or
even better at every customer location.  I know these product ideas exist
out there, and I'd love to hear them.   Feel free to throw ideas out which
are outside of the narrow niche that you think of PacketFlux fitting into.

One final note  - there is always a query for an all-in-one tower device
which includes some mixture of ac power supply, dc-dc conversion, battery
charging/management, Ethernet switch, router, power injection, fiber
conversion, etc..   I've heard those loud and clear and am aware of that
desire.   There's work being done in-house toward something like that, but
there are many hurdles left to make it a reality.  If there's a simplified
version of this which would fit a specific, widespread, need I'd love to
hear about it, but the idea of a device you put into your rack and it
handles everything needed at a tower site is still quite a ways off for us.

So, throw your best ideas out there... I'd love to take a couple and run
with them.

-forrest

Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz Survey - Request for Info

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Survey doneI'm going to address a question you didn't ask in the survey:

There are two things I hate about 900mhz:  First is the lower capacity, 
and a lot of the survey questions were pertinent to that. The second is 
there is a ton of interference and that makes it unreliable.  I think it 
would be nice if a product could deliver higher capacity in 900mhz, but 
I also think it would be nice if we could get some rock solid IP 
connectivity without line of sight, even if it was at a low speed.  I 
won't presume to tell Cambium how to do that, but maybe your next 
product could have an option for very small channels, or FHSS, or maybe 
tx and rx on different channels so I can avoid listening on a noisy 
channel at the tower but still transmit on it.


I'd love to have more options in the toolbox to make a NLOS link keep on 
chugging along for telemetry, or remote desktop, or a single camera, or 
whatever.



As some of you may already be aware, we are conducting some inquiries 
surrounding the 900 MHz band in order to properly address concerns in 
using this band, and help provide us the information needed to develop 
the product that you need to deliver service to your customers.  The 
survey is just over 20 questions, and is located here: 
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XNS38W6


Please help us help you!

Any information we gather will help us to make sure we're developing 
the right product for your needs, and this info will not be used for 
any commercial or solicitation purposes.  It's optional to fill in the 
contact info at the end, but I encourage you to do so, in case further 
exploration of a few of the responses could help even more.


The survey will stay open for about 2 weeks, so try to get to it soon.

Let me know if you have any questions or problems accessing the survey.

Thanks,

*Matt Mangriotis*

Senior Product Manager*
Cambium Networks**
*3800 Golf Road, Suite 360

Rolling Meadows, IL 60008

www.cambiumnetworks.com *
**O: *847-439-6379**

*M: *630-308-9394*
E: *m...@cambiumnetworks.com *__*

CN_logo_horizontal_blueIcon_blackName

Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz Survey - Request for Info

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Suppose the next generation of Cambium 900mhz could be configured as a 
big channel, high capacity, broadband internet radio.or also as a 
tiny channel, low speed, super reliable radio for SCADA and other 
telemetry and industrial automation type applications.


Then the product could break into a new market.  And then I could sell 
900 to the local SCADA users except I'd be able to GPS sync with them.  
Then Cambium gets new customers and we all coexist happily ever after.


Survey doneI'm going to address a question you didn't ask in the 
survey:


There are two things I hate about 900mhz:  First is the lower 
capacity, and a lot of the survey questions were pertinent to that.  
The second is there is a ton of interference and that makes it 
unreliable.  I think it would be nice if a product could deliver 
higher capacity in 900mhz, but I also think it would be nice if we 
could get some rock solid IP connectivity without line of sight, even 
if it was at a low speed.  I won't presume to tell Cambium how to do 
that, but maybe your next product could have an option for very small 
channels, or FHSS, or maybe tx and rx on different channels so I can 
avoid listening on a noisy channel at the tower but still transmit on it.


I'd love to have more options in the toolbox to make a NLOS link keep 
on chugging along for telemetry, or remote desktop, or a single 
camera, or whatever.



As some of you may already be aware, we are conducting some inquiries 
surrounding the 900 MHz band in order to properly address concerns in 
using this band, and help provide us the information needed to 
develop the product that you need to deliver service to your 
customers. The survey is just over 20 questions, and is located here: 
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XNS38W6


Please help us help you!

Any information we gather will help us to make sure we're developing 
the right product for your needs, and this info will not be used for 
any commercial or solicitation purposes.  It's optional to fill in 
the contact info at the end, but I encourage you to do so, in case 
further exploration of a few of the responses could help even more.


The survey will stay open for about 2 weeks, so try to get to it soon.

Let me know if you have any questions or problems accessing the survey.

Thanks,

*Matt Mangriotis*

Senior Product Manager*
Cambium Networks**
*3800 Golf Road, Suite 360

Rolling Meadows, IL 60008

www.cambiumnetworks.com *
**O: *847-439-6379**

*M: *630-308-9394*
E: *m...@cambiumnetworks.com *__*

CN_logo_horizontal_blueIcon_blackName

Re: [AFMUG] 900 MHz Survey - Request for Info

[Adam Moffett via Af]

I think a TOW missile would fit that description.


If you make a product that renders smart meters inoperative I will pay 
whatever you want!


Steve B.



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Matt Mangriotis 
via Af

*Sent:* Monday, October 06, 2014 10:57 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] 900 MHz Survey - Request for Info

As some of you may already be aware, we are conducting some inquiries 
surrounding the 900 MHz band in order to properly address concerns in 
using this band, and help provide us the information needed to develop 
the product that you need to deliver service to your customers.  The 
survey is just over 20 questions, and is located here: 
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XNS38W6


Please help us help you!

Any information we gather will help us to make sure we're developing 
the right product for your needs, and this info will not be used for 
any commercial or solicitation purposes.  It's optional to fill in the 
contact info at the end, but I encourage you to do so, in case further 
exploration of a few of the responses could help even more.


The survey will stay open for about 2 weeks, so try to get to it soon.

Let me know if you have any questions or problems accessing the survey.

Thanks,

*Matt Mangriotis*

Senior Product Manager*
Cambium Networks**
*3800 Golf Road, Suite 360

Rolling Meadows, IL 60008

www.cambiumnetworks.com *
O: *847-439-6379**

*M: *630-308-9394*
E: *m...@cambiumnetworks.com *__*

CN_logo_horizontal_blueIcon_blackName

[AFMUG] credit checks

[Adam Moffett via Af]

My mission this morning is to figure out how I'm going to do credit 
checks on potential new customers.


While I'm on hold with Experian, I wonder if anybody else is doing 
credit checks who can share what they're doing.  What company are you 
using?  How much does it cost? How hard was it to get set up?

Re: [AFMUG] credit checks

[Adam Moffett via Af]

The trouble is the primary comptetion (Time Warner Cable) does free 
installs and then lets you go 90 days before they shut you off.


I have to try not to be a meaner guy than them.


meh too much work.

get payment upfront for as much as possible (install and first month) 
bill ahead for the month instead of behind and turn off service 
quickly for non-payment.


credit checks are too expensive and bothersome.

2 cents

-sean




On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Adam Moffett via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


My mission this morning is to figure out how I'm going to do
credit checks on potential new customers.

While I'm on hold with Experian, I wonder if anybody else is doing
credit checks who can share what they're doing.  What company are
you using?  How much does it cost? How hard was it to get set up?

Re: [AFMUG] Belkin routers going nuts

[Adam Moffett via Af]

That seemsstupid.
If Belkin goes out of business, all their routers become bricks?
Also be aware that the belkins use heartbeat.belkin.com to check to 
see if there is internet access and if the answer

comes back negative then it will not connect any lan clients to internet

Re: [AFMUG] Platypus Update and Event Scheduler Issues

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Yup,

I got hit by that one too.


All:

I wish Platypus would have proactively emailed us about this...but I 
just called support and found out this.


I've been pulling my hair out for some time after a Platypus update.  
It appears that the latest version released on 9/24 (literally the day 
after I upgraded last) has an issue with processing referrals.  It 
causes the event status to get tagged as processing and never 
finishes.  As a result, additional events never run because the status 
is stuck on processing.  I can confirm the latest release fixes this 
issue.


Regards,
Chuck

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Adam Moffett via Af]

The code part is debatable.  An antenna cable would definitely need to 
be grounded somehow, but we're bringing the low voltage data cable into 
the house, not an antenna cable.  If that needs a surge protector, then 
so does every doorbell, camera, sensor, landscaping light, and so on.


Whether it's a good idea and whether it's required by code are two 
separate points though.  It's definitely a good idea.


And also if you have to do a cable rerun or move the antenna, you can 
do it without requiring the customer to be home.


If I remember right (Chuck or somebody can probably confirm this), you 
should be doing this anyway due to electrical code requirements 
(grounding before entry into the home).


Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com 

On 10/07/2014 10:59 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:
Yeah, I had thought about those (and the WB versions). It's a hassle 
that may be worth doing to avoid other hassles. Would also provide a 
point to test from that's outside if necessary.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


*From: *"Josh Reynolds via Af" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Tuesday, October 7, 2014 12:55:56 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

If you use the new UBNT surgeprotectors* (or something like them), 
then your outdoor run would technically terminate at that box, and 
then you'd have a second (probably much shorter) run from that box 
into the home. It would be much more likely for the primarily 
'outdoor' cable to have water in it than the much shorter run inside 
the home.


Also, we always slice the bottom of our drip loops to let water weep out.

[* - I have no idea if these are shipping]

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com 

On 10/07/2014 04:20 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:

I used to be really excited about all-in-one CPE units until I
realized that where now I have to change out the occasional PoE
due to water\lightning\whatever damage...  then I'd have to
change out the entire unit.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


*From: *"Darin Steffl via Af" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Sunday, October 5, 2014 4:25:38 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

Chris Sisler - RF Armor has/is creating a Customer AP with POE
built-in but it doesn't have a display as far as I know to show
status or anything like that. He is working on getting out the
Tower/WISP switches first I think and then the Customer AP.

http://www.netonix.com/cap-fxs-1.html

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of
the diagnostic features you mentioned. It would be nice if
the customer could just look at the router to see the status
of the connection up down or otherwise.

On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the
functionality but even at $75 I couldn't justify the cost.

On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)
via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Following up on the previous email about product
ideas, I have an idea for a product which at least I
think would be really cool, but I also think would
likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent
cost sensitivity of installs.

It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the
power injector at customer sites with more of an
intelligent device. One that provides functionality
like traffic metering, cable diagnostics,
customer-location speed tests, and so on.   The unit
would have jacks for the radio, the customer
equipment, and power.   It would also have a display
which shows real-time usage data for the customer to
be able to determine for themselves what their
current internet consumption is.   There are a lot of
natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset
of the radio itself, automatic problem notification
to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to instrument
this as much as possible.

If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for
internet, with diagnostic tools built in, then you've
got the basic idea.  This is not intended to replace
the customer router/nat de

Re: [AFMUG] Comcast is getting really ticked about complaints

[Adam Moffett via Af]

The original article states that nobody has access to recordings of the 
phone calls or the contents of the emails.
Maybe Conal was the jerk.  What would someone have to say before you 
called his employer and told them they employee was being bad?  
Something serious I assume.  Maybe Conal made threats or something.


The fact is we don't know, and slashdot rallies automatically against 
the cable company because they're the cable company.  Not that I love my 
cable companybut the bias is quite clear.



Per the original article it doesn't sound like the guy was being a 
jerk at all.  Comcast was, in fact, the jerk.


On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 6:37 PM, Chris Wright via Af > wrote:


That’s pretty shady, but this part of the editorial really ticked
me off,

 “/Be careful next time when you exercise your first amendment
rights”/

//

The first amendment protects the rights of the people to speak
freely, but does not protect you from the consequences of being a
jerk.

Chris Wright

Velociter Wireless 

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds via Af
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 07, 2014 4:17 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Comcast is getting really ticked about
complaints

Yeah I saw that.

PS - f@#$ /. beta ;)

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com 

On 10/07/2014 02:51 PM, Rory Conaway via Af wrote:

http://beta.slashdot.org/story/208189

�

Rory P. Conaway

4226 S. 37th Street

Phoenix, Az. 85040

602-426-0542 

r...@triadwireless.net 

www.triadwireless.net 

�

Re: [AFMUG] WTF apex 9 cable defects

[Adam Moffett via Af]

We use a lot of Shireen DC-1021.  Can't complain.  It's tough, maybe a 
little stiff.
In a couple of places where moisture got into the cable, the foil shield 
corroded and had the look and feel of an old gum wrapper. I'm sure 
that's not Shireen's fault.  I've sometimes wondered if should insist on 
flooded cable even though I hate the gel.


I've sometimes wondered how bad the corrosion hurts.  The aluminum oxide 
seems to have more resistance as measured with a multimeterdoes that 
make it a crummier RF shield?


I think I'm going to get some of the Shireen DC-1021 stuff to try. The 
Belden/Best-Tronics is good cable, but I hate that it doesn't have a 
rip cord. The Shireen stuff looks almost the same.. with a rip cord.


On 10/7/2014 11:32 PM, Ken Hohhof via Af wrote:
You can use the wooden reels as end tables or foot rests when they’re 
empty.

*From:* Kurt Fankhauser via Af 
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 07, 2014 11:19 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WTF apex 9 cable defects
Cheapest I seen on that 1300a is $300/roll. Almost seems worth it 
after seeing this crap today...


Kurt Fankhauser

Wavelinc Communications

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

http://www.wavelinc.com 

tel. 419-562-6405

fax. 419-617-0110

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:10 AM, Ken Hohhof via Af > wrote:


Never seen a defect with Belden 1300A/7919A or the Best-Tronics
clone of it.  It ain’t cheap though.
*From:* Kurt Fankhauser via Af 
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 07, 2014 10:32 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] WTF apex 9 cable defects
Been using APEX 9 cable for 3 years with no problems until the
last year. Earlier this year I unrolled some off a spool and the
outer jacket was missing in a spot, CTI sent me a new box and
wanted the old one back, today found another box with a HUGE
section of outerjacket missing, obvious manufacturing defect
because the footage marking was printed on the foil shield!
Opened another box from the same pallet and immediately found
another defect on that roll that wasn't even off the spool yet.
I need to find another brand of cable, I CAN NOT be having these
poor quality control issues showing up on towers which is where
this cable was being installed today

Kurt Fankhauser

Wavelinc Communications

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

http://www.wavelinc.com 

tel. 419-562-6405 

fax. 419-617-0110 

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 230 - Negative Transmit Power ?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Rightit sets the range of tx powers to keep you inside the legal 
EIRP based on the antenna gain setting.



What is your external gain set to and what band?

On 10/9/2014 7:03 AM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc via 
Af wrote:


Anyone seen this before?  Tried changing it but she resets back to a 
negative number even after reboot...


Transmitter Output Power :



dBm ( Range: -30 --- -15 dBm )

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*317-738-0320 Daytime #*
*317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #*
*Online: **www.surfici.net*

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones 
- IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*

**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*



--

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 230 - Negative Transmit Power ?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

Gotta be.  External gain is over and above the 10db internal antenna.  
You're telling it you have a total of 45dbi of antenna gainSo I'm 
guessing you have 5.4ghz unit, which has a +30db legal EIRP 
limit.hence -15 as your max tax power.


If you have a 35dbi dish, you set "external gain" to 25.

IMO you're doing the right thing with the big antennayou're much 
better off getting to the EIRP limit with antenna gain than tx power 
because the antenna helps you in both directions.



I would say that's wrong for a reflector?

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*317-738-0320 Daytime #*
*317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #*
*Online: **www.surfici.net*

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones 
- IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*

**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini 
via Af

*Sent:* Thursday, October 9, 2014 8:10 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Cc:* memb...@wispa.org
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] PTP 230 - Negative Transmit Power ?

What gain you have in the antenna field?

Gino A. Villarini

President

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

www.aeronetpr.com 

@aeronetpr

*From: *"af@afmug.com " >
*Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com " >

*Date: *Thursday, October 9, 2014 at 8:03 AM
*To: *"af@afmug.com " >
*Cc: *"memb...@wispa.org " 
mailto:memb...@wispa.org>>

*Subject: *[AFMUG] PTP 230 - Negative Transmit Power ?

Anyone seen this before?  Tried changing it but she resets back to a 
negative number even after reboot...


Transmitter Output Power :



dBm ( Range: -30 --- -15 dBm )

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*317-738-0320 Daytime #*
*317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #*
*Online: **www.surfici.net*

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones 
- IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*

**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*

Re: [AFMUG] PTP 230 - Negative Transmit Power ?

[Adam Moffett via Af]

oh and if you are using a 27RD or equivalent, I think the correct 
external gain setting would be 15.


Gotta be.  External gain is over and above the 10db internal antenna.  
You're telling it you have a total of 45dbi of antenna gainSo I'm 
guessing you have 5.4ghz unit, which has a +30db legal EIRP 
limit.hence -15 as your max tax power.


If you have a 35dbi dish, you set "external gain" to 25.

IMO you're doing the right thing with the big antennayou're much 
better off getting to the EIRP limit with antenna gain than tx power 
because the antenna helps you in both directions.



I would say that's wrong for a reflector?

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*317-738-0320 Daytime #*
*317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #*
*Online: **www.surfici.net*

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones 
- IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*

**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino 
Villarini via Af

*Sent:* Thursday, October 9, 2014 8:10 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Cc:* memb...@wispa.org
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] PTP 230 - Negative Transmit Power ?

What gain you have in the antenna field?

Gino A. Villarini

President

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

www.aeronetpr.com 

@aeronetpr

*From: *"af@afmug.com " >
*Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com " >

*Date: *Thursday, October 9, 2014 at 8:03 AM
*To: *"af@afmug.com " >
*Cc: *"memb...@wispa.org " 
mailto:memb...@wispa.org>>

*Subject: *[AFMUG] PTP 230 - Negative Transmit Power ?

Anyone seen this before?  Tried changing it but she resets back to a 
negative number even after reboot...


Transmitter Output Power :



dBm ( Range: -30 --- -15 dBm )

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*317-738-0320 Daytime #*
*317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #*
*Online: **www.surfici.net*

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones 
- IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*

**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*

Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

[Adam Moffett via Af]

If you go into a Doctor's office and receive aspirin and a hug, you'll 
still get a $500 bill (or your insurance will).


I'd love it if we could address whatever drives the costs up.

Collin, socialized medicine or socialized anything doesn’t work. What 
happened to the idea that Capitalism built the greatest country and 
the greatest health care in the world.  Why does everybody forget that 
and keep wanting to go back to the failed systems in Europe, 
Socialism, Communism.


Costs go up because of attorney’s and the technology behind our health 
care.  If you want cheap health care, get rid of MRI machines, genome 
cancer treatments, laser surgeries, AiDs drugs, Hepatitis drug 
research, etc…  If all you want is an aspirin and a hug, you keep 
holding to the idea that socialized medicine is a great idea.


Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:41 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

Amen brother Conlin.

The way I see it, the biggest problem is that ObamaCare didn't go far 
enough.  We really, really need to have a system that gets a handle on 
the costs.  The cost to US citizens is more than double the cost to 
other developed countries.


Just peruse this: 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/26/charts-health-care-costs-americans_n_2957266.html



bp

On 10/9/2014 5:12 AM, Paul Conlin via Af wrote:

What did people expect?  Insurance companies are the house.  They
always make money.  By accepting pre-existing conditions everyone
else’s premiums go up.  By definition.  The only way health
insurance can work is if it is universal (code for mandatory). 
Can’t have people who can do math, like Chuck, opting out.  Or

healthy people saying no.  Everyone in.  Everyone pays.  Spreads
out the costs.

ObamaCare was never about controlling costs.  It was about
increasing coverage.  More coverage costs more.  Why are people
surprised at this?  If you want to control costs you have to
redesign the way money flows.  Our system of providers and
insurance companies is **designed** to maximize heath costs.  It
is a positive feedback loop.  What is needed is a single payer
system, like Canada, where one paying party can have maximum
leverage to minimize costs and who has limited ability to raise
taxes.  It is a proper (negative) feedback system that has
inheritably more control.  Canada, for the record, is not
privatized health care like the VHA.  In fact it is the opposite.
The Government of Canada purchases all its healthcare from private
entities, like Medicare.  A fact yet to be discovered by the media
in the USA.

It is hard to understand why the Republican’s hate ObamaCare since
it was mostly their idea.  Well, other than ObamaCare was
championed by Obama and I guess that is enough reason. The basic
concept to use the free market and let industry to its thing is
normally what Republican’s want.  Not to mention its inherent
ability to make more money for insurance companies and private
industry.  Sure, they are upset that it is being used as a wealth
distribution system that makes people with money pay more and
people without pay less.  Ok, so that is two reasons they hate it.

The mistake made, was not implementing a single payer system
simultaneously with universal coverage.  The CBO calculated the
saving from the former would pay for the later resulting in no
increase in out-of-pocket costs. Then the other benefits of such a
privatized system would start to kick in and the open market
competition for services will drive costs down.  With health care
general health would improve and costs would go down even more.

Unfortunately the Government is dysfunctional and has zero chance
of overcoming the trillions of dollars companies are making off of
the existing out of control health care system. And if they could
pass the laws, would anyone trust our Government to run such a
program?  And there is the root problem.

Obviously an over simplification but now back to my real job.

PC

Blaze Broadband

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Rory
Conaway via Af
*Sent:* Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:33 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

People with pre-existing conditions are one of the few groups
benefitting from this.

Rory

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy via Af
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 7:32 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ObamaCare

We pay about the same as we did but our deductible is lower, our
out of pocket max is lower, and they covered our pregnancy.  We
switched during the first trimester because we didn't have
maternity coverage (no self-i