Re: [AFMUG] Good Weather App/site

[Nathan Anderson]

?These days, it seems to be virtually all of them, because rather than handle 
ad sales themselves (which would give them some modicum of control), they all 
subscribe to the same basic set of sleazy ad networks.  And you have no idea 
until you've already clicked on the link...


-- Nathan


From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Mathew Howard 
<mhoward...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 2:10 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Good Weather App/site

I prefer to just not go to websites that have that obnoxious of ads...

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Nathan Anderson 
<nath...@fsr.com<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote:

?I used to be the same way, but over the last couple of years, most web sites 
have just gone beyond the pale.  It is ridiculous how much CPU-time is being 
consumed by some open tabs, simply on account of the ads.  If I want my laptop 
battery NOT to last, then I don't use ad blockers.


https://marco.org/2015/08/11/ad-blocking-ethics?


-- Nathan


From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Mike 
Hammett <af...@ics-il.net<mailto:af...@ics-il.net>>
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 6:59 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Good Weather App/site

I'm morally opposed to most ad blockers. Any other business that advertises 
should be as well.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Eric Kuhnke" <eric.kuh...@gmail.com<mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 3:33:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Good Weather App/site

people still browse without ublock origin?

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm?hl=en

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-origin/



On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 1:25 PM, George Skorup 
<george.sko...@cbcast.com<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
I haven't noticed too many problems with the Android app. Once you start the 
radar loop, it does take a few seconds to buffer some frames.

OTOH, the website is a piece of shit. Ads galore. Those alone are half the 
loading time. Waiting on Google Analytics this, DoubleClick, that. It reminds 
me of the ePMP GUI before they made it not need 16 CPU cores and 128GB of RAM 
anymore.


On 10/26/2017 10:21 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I've used Wunderground for years, but their recent updates have basically 
broken things.  The Droid App no longer correctly displays the radar.  It 
sometimes won't update, or only displays a few frames of animation, or only 
loads part of the radar overlay. On a PC, their site now takes 10-20 seconds to 
load, and at least for me, the Wundermap keeps sending me to the radar in LA, 
and uses the CPU Resources of a small computing cluster.  And even then still 
doesn't load correctly.

What else is out there that gives good Radar loop and 7-10 day local forecast.  
I don't care about other things like 'click here to see the worlds 7 worst 
storms that have trapped kittens who are rescued by lemurs'  like 
weather.com<http://weather.com/> seems to think is the most important reason 
you go to their site.

Re: [AFMUG] Good Weather App/site

[Nathan Anderson]

?I used to be the same way, but over the last couple of years, most web sites 
have just gone beyond the pale.  It is ridiculous how much CPU-time is being 
consumed by some open tabs, simply on account of the ads.  If I want my laptop 
battery NOT to last, then I don't use ad blockers.


https://marco.org/2015/08/11/ad-blocking-ethics?


-- Nathan


From: Af  on behalf of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 6:59 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Good Weather App/site

I'm morally opposed to most ad blockers. Any other business that advertises 
should be as well.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Eric Kuhnke" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 3:33:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Good Weather App/site

people still browse without ublock origin?

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm?hl=en

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-origin/



On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 1:25 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
I haven't noticed too many problems with the Android app. Once you start the 
radar loop, it does take a few seconds to buffer some frames.

OTOH, the website is a piece of shit. Ads galore. Those alone are half the 
loading time. Waiting on Google Analytics this, DoubleClick, that. It reminds 
me of the ePMP GUI before they made it not need 16 CPU cores and 128GB of RAM 
anymore.


On 10/26/2017 10:21 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
I've used Wunderground for years, but their recent updates have basically 
broken things.  The Droid App no longer correctly displays the radar.  It 
sometimes won't update, or only displays a few frames of animation, or only 
loads part of the radar overlay. On a PC, their site now takes 10-20 seconds to 
load, and at least for me, the Wundermap keeps sending me to the radar in LA, 
and uses the CPU Resources of a small computing cluster.  And even then still 
doesn't load correctly.

What else is out there that gives good Radar loop and 7-10 day local forecast.  
I don't care about other things like 'click here to see the worlds 7 worst 
storms that have trapped kittens who are rescued by lemurs'  like 
weather.com seems to think is the most important reason 
you go to their site.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

[Nathan Anderson]

So I'm confused...you're helping to make my point for me? :-)

And "you will only be screwed for a very short time" can somehow be reconciled 
with the statement that "I think it took more than 6 months to actually get it 
up and going"...how exactly?  In my world, 6 months is not "a very short time".

And this is only talking about migrating from one non-cloud platform to 
another.  Now imagine if the migration didn't occur because you simply wanted 
to get off an old dinosaur and could do so at your leisure, but was instead 
because aliens beamed your old dinosaur off the surface of the planet in the 
blink of an eye.  One minute it's there, the next it's not.  6 months to 
implement == you're screwed.  Royally screwed.  Now, in this hypothetical 
scenario, the people doing the migration would have extra incentive to get it 
done and put the new system into production more quickly,  but still.

I saw Sterling's list of reasons why he wants to move to Sonar.  I can 
understand and respect many of them.  I would just like to point out that in 
his first post, he said he had been in a holding pattern with the Sonar 
migration for a month.  For most of us in this industry, that equates to an 
entire billing cycle for nearly your entire customer base.

I guess it's a good thing that he's migrating from Platypus, which isn't going 
out of business.  And even if it was, it's not cloud-hosted.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 2:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

It never goes smoothly.

I used to work for banks, talk about a headache when you change out their 
software that manages all the customer accounts etc.  They migrated off an old 
dinosaur main frame to an AS-400 with all the latest software.  I think it took 
more than 6 months to actually get it up and going.

I have worked for several telephone companies and all of them have migrated 
software, most of them multiple times.  Again, never smooth, always pain.

Ditto for WISPS,  been there, done that too.  Platypus was probably the easiest 
due to the IT department being very hands on through the process.

It never goes smoothly and they can guarantee everything to work all they want, 
but it will not work perfectly without elbow grease.

From: Nathan Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 3:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Didn't this thread start out with somebody complaining that their new vendor 
either wasn't willing to do this or weren't doing an effective or good job of 
it?  Vendor on-boarding is not always an option, or at least is not something 
that is guaranteed to work or go smoothly.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 2:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Been through this many times in my life.  Done it both ways.  Several times.
Prefer the new vendor to do onboarding for me.
You get what you pay for.

From: Nathan Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Not true.  It doesn't matter what the file format of the export is: you still 
have to take the time to figure out how to shoehorn data from one schema into 
another.  As talked about earlier, maybe you'll get support from your new 
vendor with that, maybe not.  There will be mistakes made during that process, 
and some of it will have to be re-done.  You also have to hook the new product 
into all of your authentication systems and then test that to make sure it 
works and doesn't suddenly break people's connections.

Then there will be the mistakes that come from actually using the new software 
that you are unfamiliar with, and/or cajoling it to do what you need it to do 
and which you already knew how to do with the old software.  People will get 
billed wrong for a while and then you'll have to sort out that mess as your 
customers bring the billing mistakes to your attention.  Some people that need 
to get billed won't be...others will get double-billed.  Pro-rates will get 
miscalculated.  The system will on-hold somebody by mistake that shouldn't have 
been.  And on and on.

If the software is locally hosted, you can learn a new system and transition 
over to it on your own schedule, instead of being pushed into the deep end of 
the pool on day 1.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 2:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Export backups as CSV and you can re-import it into any database.  You will 
only be screwed for a very short time.

From: Nathan Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 2:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

[Nathan Anderson]

Didn't this thread start out with somebody complaining that their new vendor 
either wasn't willing to do this or weren't doing an effective or good job of 
it?  Vendor on-boarding is not always an option, or at least is not something 
that is guaranteed to work or go smoothly.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 2:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Been through this many times in my life.  Done it both ways.  Several times.
Prefer the new vendor to do onboarding for me.
You get what you pay for.

From: Nathan Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Not true.  It doesn't matter what the file format of the export is: you still 
have to take the time to figure out how to shoehorn data from one schema into 
another.  As talked about earlier, maybe you'll get support from your new 
vendor with that, maybe not.  There will be mistakes made during that process, 
and some of it will have to be re-done.  You also have to hook the new product 
into all of your authentication systems and then test that to make sure it 
works and doesn't suddenly break people's connections.

Then there will be the mistakes that come from actually using the new software 
that you are unfamiliar with, and/or cajoling it to do what you need it to do 
and which you already knew how to do with the old software.  People will get 
billed wrong for a while and then you'll have to sort out that mess as your 
customers bring the billing mistakes to your attention.  Some people that need 
to get billed won't be...others will get double-billed.  Pro-rates will get 
miscalculated.  The system will on-hold somebody by mistake that shouldn't have 
been.  And on and on.

If the software is locally hosted, you can learn a new system and transition 
over to it on your own schedule, instead of being pushed into the deep end of 
the pool on day 1.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 2:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Export backups as CSV and you can re-import it into any database.  You will 
only be screwed for a very short time.

From: Nathan Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 2:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

I have to say that I'm partially with Matt on this one.

It's really not about access to your own data, although that can certainly be a 
component depending on how things are designed.  It sounds like perhaps Sonar 
has no problem giving you reasonable access to exports of your data for you to 
backup yourself, and for the moment, I'm going to give them the benefit of the 
doubt on this.

I don't think I have to convince anyone how critical billing software is to an 
organization.  If it screws up or stops working, you are losing money, and fast.

The SaaS model has some clear benefits to both parties (developer and user), 
but it has an equal number of new downsides as well.  One big-E-on-the-eyechart 
one is what happens if the product is discontinued, either because the parent 
company/developers go out of business or for some other reason.

In the traditional software licensing and hosting model, where you use your own 
computing resources to execute the code, if the development company goes out of 
business one day, the software that you still possess a copy of does not 
suddenly become less useful to you.  Sure, you won't get future upgrades and 
fixes to the product from the vendor, but at least you have some time to figure 
out what your options are and how you want to proceed, and you can migrate to a 
new platform on YOUR OWN timetable, not someone else's.  And in the meantime, 
your business operations are not negatively impacted.

In the SaaS model, it doesn't matter if you have a complete, unabridged, and 
up-to-date export of the data: when the product is discontinued without 
warning, and the company shuts down the software servers, YOU ARE SO SCREWED.  
That data export does you zero good if you don't have product to process and 
interpret and act on it.  In the case of billing software, this means you are 
not collecting payments for service from your customers, which is a big 
problem.  Even if you could find a suitable replacement for the software the 
next day, you still have to figure out how to massage the data export you do 
have so that the new software can import it, work through the inevitable 
imperfections of that import (certain fields from the export that don't map 
cleanly to fields in the new product), learn a new piece of software from 
scratch, and figure out how to get by or work around issues resulting from 
"feature X" that you depended heavily on in the old software but which no 
longer exists in any form in the new o

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

[Nathan Anderson]

Not true.  It doesn't matter what the file format of the export is: you still 
have to take the time to figure out how to shoehorn data from one schema into 
another.  As talked about earlier, maybe you'll get support from your new 
vendor with that, maybe not.  There will be mistakes made during that process, 
and some of it will have to be re-done.  You also have to hook the new product 
into all of your authentication systems and then test that to make sure it 
works and doesn't suddenly break people's connections.

Then there will be the mistakes that come from actually using the new software 
that you are unfamiliar with, and/or cajoling it to do what you need it to do 
and which you already knew how to do with the old software.  People will get 
billed wrong for a while and then you'll have to sort out that mess as your 
customers bring the billing mistakes to your attention.  Some people that need 
to get billed won't be...others will get double-billed.  Pro-rates will get 
miscalculated.  The system will on-hold somebody by mistake that shouldn't have 
been.  And on and on.

If the software is locally hosted, you can learn a new system and transition 
over to it on your own schedule, instead of being pushed into the deep end of 
the pool on day 1.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 2:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Export backups as CSV and you can re-import it into any database.  You will 
only be screwed for a very short time.

From: Nathan Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 2:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

I have to say that I'm partially with Matt on this one.

It's really not about access to your own data, although that can certainly be a 
component depending on how things are designed.  It sounds like perhaps Sonar 
has no problem giving you reasonable access to exports of your data for you to 
backup yourself, and for the moment, I'm going to give them the benefit of the 
doubt on this.

I don't think I have to convince anyone how critical billing software is to an 
organization.  If it screws up or stops working, you are losing money, and fast.

The SaaS model has some clear benefits to both parties (developer and user), 
but it has an equal number of new downsides as well.  One big-E-on-the-eyechart 
one is what happens if the product is discontinued, either because the parent 
company/developers go out of business or for some other reason.

In the traditional software licensing and hosting model, where you use your own 
computing resources to execute the code, if the development company goes out of 
business one day, the software that you still possess a copy of does not 
suddenly become less useful to you.  Sure, you won't get future upgrades and 
fixes to the product from the vendor, but at least you have some time to figure 
out what your options are and how you want to proceed, and you can migrate to a 
new platform on YOUR OWN timetable, not someone else's.  And in the meantime, 
your business operations are not negatively impacted.

In the SaaS model, it doesn't matter if you have a complete, unabridged, and 
up-to-date export of the data: when the product is discontinued without 
warning, and the company shuts down the software servers, YOU ARE SO SCREWED.  
That data export does you zero good if you don't have product to process and 
interpret and act on it.  In the case of billing software, this means you are 
not collecting payments for service from your customers, which is a big 
problem.  Even if you could find a suitable replacement for the software the 
next day, you still have to figure out how to massage the data export you do 
have so that the new software can import it, work through the inevitable 
imperfections of that import (certain fields from the export that don't map 
cleanly to fields in the new product), learn a new piece of software from 
scratch, and figure out how to get by or work around issues resulting from 
"feature X" that you depended heavily on in the old software but which no 
longer exists in any form in the new one.  Things WILL be complete chaos for a 
while; there's no way around this.

We are actively looking for a new billing platform, and in the meantime we have 
been running a piece of software that we bought and implemented back when it 
was in active development but which has now been discontinued for years.  The 
reason that this is even possible is because it is self-hosted.  Back when this 
product was being developed, it was very popular and sold very well.  Nothing 
is "too big to fail"...nothing.  Heck, Google has shitcanned their fair share 
of services over the years after deeming them inviable, leaving devoted users 
of them high-and-dry.

That we have personally experienced having a billing software vendor go 
belly-up gives us great pause when it comes

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

[Nathan Anderson]

e:
No contract?  That's frankly beyond scary.

On Oct 17, 2017, at 13:06, Adam Moffett 
<dmmoff...@gmail.com<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Sonar is strictly per user with no contract, so if you haven't migrated any 
users in yet then you pay the minimum.which I think is $100/month.


-- Original Message --
From: "Matt Hoppes" 
<mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 10/17/2017 9:16:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Fail.

On Oct 17, 2017, at 08:54, Lewis Bergman 
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Many of them start charging you regardless if you are on their system yet. Once 
you sign the contract, you start paying.

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 6:00 PM Nathan Anderson 
<nath...@fsr.com<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote:

​I can understand this if the product in question is purchased/licensed for a 
one-time upfront fee.  However, if you have a SaaS model with recurring 
revenues, it seems like it would be in your best interest to help the customer 
move existing data over to your product cost-free, and thus get them to be a 
paying customer ASAP.



-- Nathan


From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Lewis 
Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 3:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Yea, this seems to be a common practice in the software industry. What they all 
should really say is that they help you convert. I am going through this with 
ECi at the moment. We paid several thousand for them to convert our database. 
What it really was was a half hearted gesture at putting the DB into an excel 
spreadsheet that they spent zero time checking for sanity. They expect us to do 
all that.

It seems that most software companies expect their customers to have a whole 
team of people doing what seems to be the software companies job. Not saying 
Sonar fits the description, just that that seems to be the rule not the 
exception.

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 5:24 PM Sterling Jacobson 
<sterl...@avative.net<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
Taking forever to migrate from Platypus to Sonar.

I was told conversion was free, but they didn't tell me I had to do all my own 
conversion from Plat to Sonar, so in my mind that's not free.

I paid Spender Lambert to move some initial data to their format, but I've been 
on a hold with Sonar since last month.

Super excited to get going with a 'modern' billing system, but so far the 
process has been a total snoozer.

Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

[Nathan Anderson]

?I can understand this if the product in question is purchased/licensed for a 
one-time upfront fee.  However, if you have a SaaS model with recurring 
revenues, it seems like it would be in your best interest to help the customer 
move existing data over to your product cost-free, and thus get them to be a 
paying customer ASAP.


-- Nathan


From: Af  on behalf of Lewis Bergman 

Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 3:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonar

Yea, this seems to be a common practice in the software industry. What they all 
should really say is that they help you convert. I am going through this with 
ECi at the moment. We paid several thousand for them to convert our database. 
What it really was was a half hearted gesture at putting the DB into an excel 
spreadsheet that they spent zero time checking for sanity. They expect us to do 
all that.

It seems that most software companies expect their customers to have a whole 
team of people doing what seems to be the software companies job. Not saying 
Sonar fits the description, just that that seems to be the rule not the 
exception.

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 5:24 PM Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
Taking forever to migrate from Platypus to Sonar.

I was told conversion was free, but they didn't tell me I had to do all my own 
conversion from Plat to Sonar, so in my mind that's not free.

I paid Spender Lambert to move some initial data to their format, but I've been 
on a hold with Sonar since last month.

Super excited to get going with a 'modern' billing system, but so far the 
process has been a total snoozer.

Re: [AFMUG] What is the faster PTP LTE products out there for 3.65GHz or 2.4GHz?

[Nathan Anderson]

I'm confused by the use of "PtP" and "LTE" in the same sentence.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 7:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] What is the faster PTP LTE products out there for 3.65GHz or 
2.4GHz?

I've got a remote link, 5 miles, with about ½ mile of trees.  I'm going to test 
2.4GHz tomorrow but am interested in some of the LTE products that might be out 
there.

Rory Conaway * Triad Wireless * CEO
4226 S. 37th Street * Phoenix * AZ 85040
602-426-0542
r...@triadwireless.net
www.triadwireless.net

"It's not the team with the best players that win, it's the players with the 
best team that wins!" - Humphrey Bogart

Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

[Nathan Anderson]

+1

Also, if we are going to waste time on hypotheticals, why don't people also 
pause to consider how the internet of today may or may not have come to exist 
in its current form if NN was something already on the regulatory books the 
first day that it started carrying commercial traffic?

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:40 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wanna throw up in your mouth?

That's pretty much how I've always seen it... NN always seemed to me more of a 
solution to a problem that people were afraid might be there someday, which the 
market would more than likely take care of by itself if it actually does 
happen, than a solution to an actual real problem.

On Sep 27, 2017 11:26 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
> 
wrote:
I'd think the big guys getting greedy (and being allowed to do as they wish 
with their networks) would only help the smaller providers. It's certainly 
possible that I'm missing something though.

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017, George Skorup 
> wrote:
I think Steve is saying, what was broken 4 years ago that needed NN to come fix 
it?

On 9/27/2017 10:08 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
How so?

It depends on which session. Sometimes we at least had lube, or there
was the threat of getting fucked, but we just hadn't been moved into
the same cell block of our admirer yet. Sometimes we just got "raw
dogged".

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
Were we fucked 4 years ago?

On Sep 27, 2017 9:30 PM, "Josh Reynolds" 
> wrote:
There's some points that are obviously wrong, and some that are not.

Also, as consumers, if net neutrality is repealed we are fucked.

On Sep 27, 2017 8:27 PM, "Steve Jones" 
> wrote:

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16374136/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-isp


I pretty much had to quit reading when this idiot sated what the FCCs job
is

Re: [AFMUG] Best BPX to work with Unifi Phones

[Nathan Anderson]

Personally, I agree with you on FreePBX.  For a PBX GUI, what I want to see is 
something that someone other than the original installer can navigate and 
manipulate.  Asterisk-GUI is somewhat inflexible (no plug-ins, so if there 
isn't a way to do what you want in the GUI, you still have to dive into the 
.conf files) and is largely deprecated now by Digium anyway, but at least the 
functionality it does present is presented in a straightforward manner that (I 
think) makes sense.  I can get around FreePBX myself just fine, but it feels 
more like what I would expect a GUI for Asterisk to look like if someone just 
decided to wrap a web interface around the Asterisk text configuration 
files...the design of it feels lazy to me.  Instead of just being familiar with 
general PBXisms, a user has to actually know Asteriskisms to get around in 
FreePBX (or at least it did the last time I played with it, which admittedly 
was several years ago).

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 2:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best BPX to work with Unifi Phones

I don't care for FreePBX.  I think it makes certain hard tasks easy, but then 
makes tasks hard which were easy in vanilla Asterisk.
The provisioning plugin is really nice as long as your phones are supported.

Maybe the simplest thing would be one of those cloud based systems where they 
do everything for you.  You'll pay something recurring per phone, but all the 
hard parts are someone else's problem.  You'd have no problem being up in 2 
days, let alone 2 weeks.

Second simplest is configure the phones individually with their web page (or 
whatever --I haven't used unifi phones) and buy an appliance with some tech 
support included.  As an example, Adtran Total Access 904 can be a SIP server 
for your VoIP extensions, and supports SIP, analog, or T1/PRI for your incoming 
lines.  There are certainly Asterisk appliances as well.  I think you'll also 
find that most PBX vendors support VoIP now...they'd be stupid not to right?  
You might pay for support, or maybe you'll get some post sale support for free, 
but either way somebody helps you with anything you're stuck on.

Third simplest is PBX in a Flash or similar Asterisk+FreePBX distribution.  
You'll have the least capital invested, and the most labor.

Least simple: Vanilla Asterisk isn't so hard once you get some practice with it 
and as long as you have time to learn and experiment.

My 2c

-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 8/9/2017 4:27:36 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best BPX to work with Unifi Phones

PBX.

Simple? VoIP is not simple. FreePBX is as simple as it gets, and it's only 
simple because it is limiting.

For provisioning you will need a tftp server, the ability to set DHCP options, 
and a basic grasp of XML.

On Aug 9, 2017 2:35 PM, "Timothy Steele" 
> wrote:
Anyone Working With Unifi Phones?

going to island of Palau to re do a network and VOIP System if they do not get 
Bombed by north Korea first :( but anyway is there like a super simple BPX out 
there to connect with unifi phones would only have 2 weeks to get this all done 
soo looking for easy lol

Re: [AFMUG] Best BPX to work with Unifi Phones

[Nathan Anderson]

I meant to write (a file THAT doesn't actually exist anywhere on the 
filesystem) in the parenthetical.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 5:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best BPX to work with Unifi Phones

Asterisk's res_phoneprov module can deal with this and I'm sure could easily be 
adapted to work with UniFi VoIP phones as well.  Polycoms work the same way: 
they request .cfg from the provisioning server.  In Asterisk, each 
extension is mapped to a particular MAC address, and when a Polycom phone asks 
for (e.g.) 0004f2abcdef.cfg from Asterisk's built-in HTTP server (a file 
doesn't actually exist anywhere on the filesystem), Asterisk knows which 
extension that phone should have and generates the configuration for it 
on-the-fly.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 5:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best BPX to work with Unifi Phones

For what it's worth, UniFi provisioning doesn't happen via single config file. 
You will need to generate a config file with the Mac address as part of the 
file name. Search Google or UBNT.com for the article.

I have some in my house. I use my edgerouter to provide the tftp source as my 
cloudkey, and my cloudkey has asterisk running on it.

I could probably setup a system to generate a config on the fly by scraping 
info from the DHCP request and then generating a config file with the proper 
filename and inputting info from sip.conf for the user info if need be, I just 
haven't needed to.

On Aug 9, 2017 7:08 PM, "Nathan Anderson" 
<nath...@fsr.com<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote:
I've put together an OpenWRT-based Asterisk VM (with Asterisk-GUI on top 
instead of FreePBX) that knows how to generate the provisioning files for 
Polycom phones from templates and offers them up via HTTP instead of TFTP.  I 
can bang out a new PBX in an afternoon with it.  I still usually pair this with 
a MikroTik doing the DHCP server bit.

If you have never done any VoIP before and perhaps need some hand-holding, I 
haven't personally used it, but 3CX, which is a commercial Windows product, 
seems to come highly recommended.  If you want something free, though, there is 
probably going to be a steeper learning curve.

The other part you are going to have to consider is the hardware.  If you can 
get phone service handed off to you as pure SIP/IP, then great.  But if you 
actually need to take analog copper or TDM lines in from the phone company, 
then you are going to need to either get a PSTN <-> SIP device that meets your 
needs or purchase the necessary interface cards for the PC/server you are 
running the PBX software on.

Good luck,

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 2:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best BPX to work with Unifi Phones

I've used a Mikrotik as the provisioning server in a lab setup.don't think 
I ever did it in real life.  It can set the required DHCP options and can be a 
TFTP server, and that's what you really need.

I liked the Sipura/Linksys/Cisco SPA phones because you could configure via the 
web page then export the XML config. Then duplicate and edit as needed.  It was 
hard to beat that for simplicity.  I'm a few years out of touch on VoIP, so I 
have no idea what phones are out there these days.


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 8/9/2017 4:27:36 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best BPX to work with Unifi Phones

PBX.

Simple? VoIP is not simple. FreePBX is as simple as it gets, and it's only 
simple because it is limiting.

For provisioning you will need a tftp server, the ability to set DHCP options, 
and a basic grasp of XML.

On Aug 9, 2017 2:35 PM, "Timothy Steele" 
<timothy.pct...@gmail.com<mailto:timothy.pct...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Anyone Working With Unifi Phones?

going to island of Palau to re do a network and VOIP System if they do not get 
Bombed by north Korea first :( but anyway is there like a super simple BPX out 
there to connect with unifi phones would only have 2 weeks to get this all done 
soo looking for easy lol

Re: [AFMUG] Best BPX to work with Unifi Phones

[Nathan Anderson]

Asterisk's res_phoneprov module can deal with this and I'm sure could easily be 
adapted to work with UniFi VoIP phones as well.  Polycoms work the same way: 
they request .cfg from the provisioning server.  In Asterisk, each 
extension is mapped to a particular MAC address, and when a Polycom phone asks 
for (e.g.) 0004f2abcdef.cfg from Asterisk's built-in HTTP server (a file 
doesn't actually exist anywhere on the filesystem), Asterisk knows which 
extension that phone should have and generates the configuration for it 
on-the-fly.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 5:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best BPX to work with Unifi Phones

For what it's worth, UniFi provisioning doesn't happen via single config file. 
You will need to generate a config file with the Mac address as part of the 
file name. Search Google or UBNT.com for the article.

I have some in my house. I use my edgerouter to provide the tftp source as my 
cloudkey, and my cloudkey has asterisk running on it.

I could probably setup a system to generate a config on the fly by scraping 
info from the DHCP request and then generating a config file with the proper 
filename and inputting info from sip.conf for the user info if need be, I just 
haven't needed to.

On Aug 9, 2017 7:08 PM, "Nathan Anderson" 
<nath...@fsr.com<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote:
I've put together an OpenWRT-based Asterisk VM (with Asterisk-GUI on top 
instead of FreePBX) that knows how to generate the provisioning files for 
Polycom phones from templates and offers them up via HTTP instead of TFTP.  I 
can bang out a new PBX in an afternoon with it.  I still usually pair this with 
a MikroTik doing the DHCP server bit.

If you have never done any VoIP before and perhaps need some hand-holding, I 
haven't personally used it, but 3CX, which is a commercial Windows product, 
seems to come highly recommended.  If you want something free, though, there is 
probably going to be a steeper learning curve.

The other part you are going to have to consider is the hardware.  If you can 
get phone service handed off to you as pure SIP/IP, then great.  But if you 
actually need to take analog copper or TDM lines in from the phone company, 
then you are going to need to either get a PSTN <-> SIP device that meets your 
needs or purchase the necessary interface cards for the PC/server you are 
running the PBX software on.

Good luck,

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 2:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best BPX to work with Unifi Phones

I've used a Mikrotik as the provisioning server in a lab setup.don't think 
I ever did it in real life.  It can set the required DHCP options and can be a 
TFTP server, and that's what you really need.

I liked the Sipura/Linksys/Cisco SPA phones because you could configure via the 
web page then export the XML config. Then duplicate and edit as needed.  It was 
hard to beat that for simplicity.  I'm a few years out of touch on VoIP, so I 
have no idea what phones are out there these days.


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 8/9/2017 4:27:36 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best BPX to work with Unifi Phones

PBX.

Simple? VoIP is not simple. FreePBX is as simple as it gets, and it's only 
simple because it is limiting.

For provisioning you will need a tftp server, the ability to set DHCP options, 
and a basic grasp of XML.

On Aug 9, 2017 2:35 PM, "Timothy Steele" 
<timothy.pct...@gmail.com<mailto:timothy.pct...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Anyone Working With Unifi Phones?

going to island of Palau to re do a network and VOIP System if they do not get 
Bombed by north Korea first :( but anyway is there like a super simple BPX out 
there to connect with unifi phones would only have 2 weeks to get this all done 
soo looking for easy lol

Re: [AFMUG] Best BPX to work with Unifi Phones

[Nathan Anderson]

I've put together an OpenWRT-based Asterisk VM (with Asterisk-GUI on top 
instead of FreePBX) that knows how to generate the provisioning files for 
Polycom phones from templates and offers them up via HTTP instead of TFTP.  I 
can bang out a new PBX in an afternoon with it.  I still usually pair this with 
a MikroTik doing the DHCP server bit.

If you have never done any VoIP before and perhaps need some hand-holding, I 
haven't personally used it, but 3CX, which is a commercial Windows product, 
seems to come highly recommended.  If you want something free, though, there is 
probably going to be a steeper learning curve.

The other part you are going to have to consider is the hardware.  If you can 
get phone service handed off to you as pure SIP/IP, then great.  But if you 
actually need to take analog copper or TDM lines in from the phone company, 
then you are going to need to either get a PSTN <-> SIP device that meets your 
needs or purchase the necessary interface cards for the PC/server you are 
running the PBX software on.

Good luck,

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 2:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best BPX to work with Unifi Phones

I've used a Mikrotik as the provisioning server in a lab setup.don't think 
I ever did it in real life.  It can set the required DHCP options and can be a 
TFTP server, and that's what you really need.

I liked the Sipura/Linksys/Cisco SPA phones because you could configure via the 
web page then export the XML config. Then duplicate and edit as needed.  It was 
hard to beat that for simplicity.  I'm a few years out of touch on VoIP, so I 
have no idea what phones are out there these days.


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 8/9/2017 4:27:36 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Best BPX to work with Unifi Phones

PBX.

Simple? VoIP is not simple. FreePBX is as simple as it gets, and it's only 
simple because it is limiting.

For provisioning you will need a tftp server, the ability to set DHCP options, 
and a basic grasp of XML.

On Aug 9, 2017 2:35 PM, "Timothy Steele" 
> wrote:
Anyone Working With Unifi Phones?

going to island of Palau to re do a network and VOIP System if they do not get 
Bombed by north Korea first :( but anyway is there like a super simple BPX out 
there to connect with unifi phones would only have 2 weeks to get this all done 
soo looking for easy lol

Re: [AFMUG] Planet Switches Suck Ass?

[Nathan Anderson]

I cannot speak to the particular model # you referenced, but we have deployed a 
WGSW-48040HP (48-port copper gigabit PoE, used to power a VoIP installation for 
a customer site).  Hardware-wise it has been fine, but the software was another 
story.  It had (and still has) many quirks, as well as some severe firmware 
bugs when it came to LLDP that prevented the phones from learning the voice 
VLAN.

As unimpressed as I was with the quality of the software, the support was 
another matter.  We were crunched for time as far as the schedule for 
installing the switch for the customer went, but rather than start by going 
through the hassle of returning the switch and sourcing a different one, I 
decided to see what would happen if I opened a ticket with them.  I had a 
hot-off-the-presses new firmware build that had been made directly in response 
to my ticket in my inbox inside of a week.  I don't think I've ever before 
experienced such a quick turnaround from a vendor in response to a software 
defect report.

I am not sure yet if that will be enough to retain my business in the future -- 
for PoE applications, EdgeSwitches seem to be significantly cheaper per-port 
and the software quality is arguably higher, although they also aren't without 
their own quirks and problems -- but it certainly hasn't hurt their chances, I 
can tell you that.

The disclaimers I'll add is that we bought our switch directly from their main 
U.S. distributor, Versa Technologies, and we opened our ticket up directly with 
them via their Zendesk (http://vtek.zendesk.com).  I don't know if you get the 
same treatment if you buy through different channels, but it's worth a shot.

The one issue with half the SFP ports on one particular switch no longer 
lighting up sounds like a hardware defect.  If it's new I don't know why you 
would hesitate either to return it for a refund or for warranty 
repair/replacement.

-- Nathan

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2017 12:16 PM
To: 'af@afmug.com'
Subject: [AFMUG] Planet Switches Suck Ass?

Anyone use the larger Planet switches?

I've got five of the 48 port SFP switches (with 4 port SFP+).

They are total crap.

Brand new out of box, and a few hours later one switch can't seem to bring up 
lights on ports 25-48 anymore.

Four of them have issues with SFP+ port disconnecting and not reconnecting 
anymore.
They also blink out and show lights on an SFP+ port with activity THAT HAS 
NOTHING PLUGGED IN.

This is specifically for the GS-5220-46S2C4X.

Does anyone have any special contact with them, or a contact person/email?

Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 Wimax

[Nathan Anderson]

Why does it necessarily cause more performance problems than TR-69?  Wouldn't 
TCP-based TR-69 have more overhead than UDP-based SNMP?  Genuinely curious 
about this because this is not the first time I have heard this claim.

I don't mean to speak for him, but just based on what he said and how it was 
phrased, I suspect that Adam wasn't necessarily just complaining about lack of 
SNMP in CPE (in which case he could just standardize on CPE7000 anyway, which 
actually has SNMP + full MIB available), but in all network elements (eNB, EPC 
if you have centralized EPC, etc.).  UL resource blocks available to UEs would 
have no bearing on the ability to manage an eNB with SNMP.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 1:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 Wimax

SNMP eats up a lot of resource blocks in LTE.  With limited UL resource blocks, 
it can cause performance problems.

Respectfully,

-[BaiCells_Tiny3]-
Rick Harnish

Director of WISP Markets

Baicells Technologies North America, Inc.
Mobile:  (972) 922-1443

rick.harn...@baicells.com
www.facebook.com/baicells


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, April 7, 2017 4:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 Wimax

We have something like 20% of our Wimax customers converted to LTE.
Throughput is better in most cases.  Latency is about half.

nLOS success is usually similar to Wimax, but we've had a few surprises.  Some 
CPE actually got worse, but they were generally fixable with antenna 
adjustment.  Apparently due to layer1 differences they may respond differently 
to nearby objects.  One specific thing i can think of is if you have the CPE 
mounted on the side of the house such that it looks the long way down the 
house.Wimax doesn't seem to care about having the house next to your path, 
but LTE did not like that (SNR went from 25 to 5 in one such case).  In another 
case, the path turned out to be just barely through dirt.  It was clipping the 
edge of the hill.  Wimax worked with a marginally acceptable signal, but LTE 
had no connection at all.  I think that was the only one we lost.and really 
with dirt in the way I'm sure we would have eventually had a problem with the 
Wimax too.

I like Telrad's Breezeview software.  They're going to add some TR-69 support 
in the next release so Breezeview can be the configuration server for your CPE, 
and I'm really looking forward to that.

My only complaint is that there are still some bugs that I can't live with.  It 
has been getting better with each software release, so I feel like we're 
getting closer to victory.

I really really wish the Telrad equipment supported SNMP.  I understand the 
technical benefits of NetConf and TR-69, but SNMP software is cheap/free 
whereas right now software for TR-69 and NetConf are both $$$.  Ultimately I 
think they're on a path to getting us good data via Breezeview, which will 
collect a blend of data from the Base Station and the CPE, and what we're 
paying for Breezeview is not as much as we would pay for a TR-69 ACS and an NMS 
supporting NetConf.  I still wish there was SNMPbut I think we'll get along 
with Breezeview.

The LTE only UE (Telrad 8000) is better than any of the Wimax CPE I've 
seen...and somehow it's also cheaper.

Anyway, LTE is a viable alternative to Wimax.  You will pay more for it than 
you did for Wimax regardless of who the vendor is.  There is also a learning 
curvethere's a different set of terminology for everything and more 
acronyms than you can shake a stick at.




-- Original Message --
From: "SmarterBroadband" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 4/7/2017 3:09:47 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 Wimax

Like you we use Telrad WiMAX.  It has been good for us.  We will also 
transition to LTE soon.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, April 7, 2017 11:14 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 3.65 Wimax

We still have it, yes.  Transitioning to LTE.
If you like-hated wimax, then you'll like-hate LTE even more.

If you loved Wimax, then I don't think we can be friends.


-- Original Message --
From: "Philip Rankin" >
To: "af" >
Sent: 4/7/2017 1:56:26 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] 3.65 Wimax

Is anyone still operating 3.65 Wimax?

Has any other technology/wireless protocol come along that can compete with 
Wimax's superior nLos capability?  At any other bands?  I have no interest in 
900.

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

--
Philip J. Rankin
Wireless Telecommunications Services
PO Box 24
Pittsburg, KS  66762

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Sip app

[Nathan Anderson]

The one built into the main phone app?  
https://www.callcentric.com/support/device/android/sip_client

Some vendors strip it out of their Android builds.  Reason # 729,405 that you 
should be buying Nexus/Pixel/etc. devices or reflashing your device with 
AOSP-based firmware.

-- Nathan

From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 
CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 12:34 PM
To: memb...@wispa.org; af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [WISPA Members] Sip app


What is the built in one ?

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Nathan Anderson" <nath...@fsr.com<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>>
To: "memb...@wispa.org<mailto:memb...@wispa.org>" 
<memb...@wispa.org<mailto:memb...@wispa.org>>, 
"af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" <af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: [WISPA Members] Sip app
Date: Fri, Mar 17, 2017 2:32 PM

The built-in one.

-- Nathan

From: members-boun...@wispa.org<mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org> 
[mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 12:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>; 
memb...@wispa.org<mailto:memb...@wispa.org>
Subject: [WISPA Members] Sip app


What is your favorite sip app on android?

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] Sip app

[Nathan Anderson]

The built-in one.

-- Nathan

From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 
CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 12:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA Members] Sip app


What is your favorite sip app on android?

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

Re: [AFMUG] WiMAX, radius and ASN

[Nathan Anderson]

I'm not aware of anything that "must" use RADIUS.  It's a convenience to help 
you scale out provisioning.  If you don't want to use it, I'm sure there is a 
way to statically and manually authorize users on the system.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 6:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WiMAX, radius and ASN


Hmm, I am starting to dabble in this wimax stuff.
MUST it use radius?

- Original Message -----
From: Nathan Anderson<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WiMAX, radius and ASN

I would think that would be built into the ASN, and that you would have to 
consult your specific one's documentation for the details on how to set a 
second RADIUS server address.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 3:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] WiMAX, radius and ASN

Does anyone have a solution that allows one WiMAX ASN to use multiple radius 
servers?  Failover or load balance.

Re: [AFMUG] WiMAX, radius and ASN

[Nathan Anderson]

I would think that would be built into the ASN, and that you would have to 
consult your specific one's documentation for the details on how to set a 
second RADIUS server address.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 3:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] WiMAX, radius and ASN

Does anyone have a solution that allows one WiMAX ASN to use multiple radius 
servers?  Failover or load balance.

Re: [AFMUG] managed router craziness

[Nathan Anderson]

Tell 'em to keep their MikroTik that they got from you, and buy a Circle to add 
onto their network.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 3:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] managed router craziness

Customer has a leased Mikrotik.  I don’t think they will be able to handle 
managing a Mikrotik, and I don’t want us making changes multiple times each day 
so their kids do their homework.  I told customer to shop for a router that can 
do what they want, and we would take back the leased router.

I still think sticking their head in the room has some value.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason Wilson
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 5:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] managed router craziness

Look at router limits. They have a few options to do exactly what you are 
looking for.
J

On Jan 26, 2017 3:10 PM, "Ken Hohhof" > 
wrote:
Customer called wanting to be able to call us each day and have us disable 
Internet to each kid’s computer until they did their homework, then call as 
each one finished their homework and have us turn it back on.

Seriously?

What happened to sticking your head in the room and yelling “get off the damn 
Internet and do your homework”?  Are parents too lazy now to get up off the 
sofa and check on the kids?  When I was a kid, a parent could yell from 50 
paces and make you soil your underwear.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: early reporting on Election Day

[Nathan Anderson]

Shockingly we are not seeing much of a change in average usage one way or the 
other.  I expected to be up as well.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2016 8:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: early reporting on Election Day

We’re up quite a bit.  Lots of Google/Akamai cache streams. Upstreams are up as 
well.



On Nov 8, 2016, at 8:44 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
> wrote:

they can be the beta testers for the walls

suprisingly my network is down right now about 40 percent usage, i expected 
alot of peope would be streaming the election, maybe theyre watching on 
satellite or already ate their bullets

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 9:36 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
If there was ever a place to wall off, start with DC. And then Cook County.
On 11/8/2016 9:27 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
I would rather see American Samoa and Puerto Rico get statehood than DC. it was 
set apart for a reason.

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016, 9:22 PM That One Guy /sarcasm 
> wrote:
thats should be interesting, are they going to petition on their crime rate 
alone?

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:

WOW Washington DC just elected to support a bid for statehood by 71%.

On Nov 8, 2016 9:07 PM, "Lewis Bergman" 
> wrote:

George is right. My write in might win.

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016, 9:05 PM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:

If Trump won cali I would demand a recount. Josh is right. This whole thing is 
another exampleof the electoral mess. The only thing scarier than popular vote 
determination is the convoluted crap we are in.

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016, 8:59 PM Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:

Might wanna hang out there for awhile until the toxic cloud passes.

On Nov 8, 2016 8:57 PM, "George Skorup" 
> wrote:
I'm staying in the basement with my 870 loaded until dawn.
On 11/8/2016 8:53 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
i want trump to pull california, just to see if clinton will stand by her word 
to accept the results

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:

Come on, they could have called Texas 2 years ago.

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016, 8:41 PM That One Guy /sarcasm 
> wrote:
by now i expected a clinton lead

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 8:38 PM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:

What's wrong with Ohio? Looks fine to me...

On Nov 8, 2016 8:13 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
> wrote:
what the hell is going on in ohio?

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 8:09 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:

They are calling Texas Wow.   People still in line here...

On Nov 8, 2016 6:57 PM, "Lewis Bergman" 
> wrote:

Yea. Nobody would believe it, nor should they.

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016, 7:55 PM That One Guy /sarcasm 
> wrote:
trump is pulling forward there now.
If texas went to hillary its a given the race will be contested

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 7:38 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:

So far Texas is 48 vs 48...JUST THAT IS DIFFERENT

On Nov 8, 2016 6:00 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
> wrote:
always vote! always!

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:

I voted proudly... That's what count

On Nov 8, 2016 5:39 PM, "Lewis Bergman" 
> wrote:

Jaimie...I sympathize with your likely feelings of irrelevance. I always vote 
but in such a red state it doesn't matter how you vote there are so many die 
hard Republicans it doesn't make a difference.

I wish we could throw some libertarians in there and shake things up. We might 
get some appreciation.

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016, 5:58 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:

Damn.  Eric and I are dumb

On Nov 8, 2016 4:52 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
> wrote:
Jaime forgot to mark his facebook selfie private

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:

Wow I have been called setback, beaner, spik to name a few but Trumps lackeys
just came 

Re: [AFMUG] FYI Cambium PTP doesn't sync with PMP

[Nathan Anderson]

You want to re-use a distribution channel as a backhaul channel, too?  That 
seems like a bad idea anyway.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 12:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FYI Cambium PTP doesn't sync with PMP

Nah PMP450 with PTP450
Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


On Oct 27, 2016, at 2:44 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:

I don't believe they're supposed to, assuming ptp650?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Oct 27, 2016 2:37 PM, "Jon Langeler" 
> wrote:
I don't think their support department understands the concept of sync. But as 
of now we have given up on PTP products syncing 100% with PMP products. Oh well

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Nathan Anderson]

...see what I mean?  That's another great example: Google for "iPad 2" "iOS" 
and the top articles are things like "will iOS 9 make my iPad 2 usable again?"  
Haha.

It might not be *as* crappy if you were given the *option* and the *freedom* to 
downgrade to an older release that the hardware is more capable of running 
without falling on its face.  But it's Apple's way or the highway.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 6:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

My iPad 2 is nearly a useless piece of crap, even after restoring to factory.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Ken Hohhof" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 6:38:52 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple
I have only had Android phones myself, and my only experience with iOS is 
setting up Internet or email on the occasional iPad for customers.

I do feel the Android user interface is very primitive and should have evolved 
to be more user friendly by now.  It seems like all they care about is how many 
apps there are, the UI can suck.  Not having owned an iPhone, I don’t know if 
Apple does any better.  I know that OS X does not seem as easy and intuitive as 
everyone says it is.

The other thing I’ve found, since I’m using a 2+ year old Android phone, is 
they develop bugs, glitches and crashes over time.  It seems like once the 
hardware is 2 years old, it doesn’t matter if you get an Android update, it’s 
not going to work like when it was new, and they are going to push you to buy 
new hardware.  Whereas it seems Apple is more dedicated to the idea of no phone 
left behind.  They want you to upgrade, but they won’t turn your iPhone 5 into 
a useless piece of crap to force you to upgrade.

Microsoft has occasionally had religion about UI design, but then they go 
totally off the tracks.  Right click context sensitive menus were the greatest 
thing since sliced bread.  Windows 8 was the devil’s work.  Microsoft Office 
looks like it came from a totally different company.  But I got a major 
endorphin rush the first time I accidentally right-clicked on the Start button 
in Window 10.  I was like the Nazis opening the Ark … “it’s so beautiful!”


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 5:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Apple has been copying Android interface design for several iPhone os versions 
now.

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016, Travis Johnson 
> wrote:
https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/

It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that Apple had 
it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND software to have an 
awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from the very beginning with the 
Macintosh... and now everyone else is finally understanding.

So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the marketing 
materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung and everyone else) is 
always "this is why our product is better than Apple". If a company really 
believes that, you don't have to make the direct comparison. LOL

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Nathan Anderson]

On Wednesday, October 5, 2016, Ken Hohhof wrote:

> The other thing I’ve found, since I’m using a 2+ year old Android phone,
> is they develop bugs, glitches and crashes over time.  It seems like once
> the hardware is 2 years old, it doesn’t matter if you get an Android update,
> it’s not going to work like when it was new, and they are going to push you
> to buy new hardware.  Whereas it seems Apple is more dedicated to the idea
> of no phone left behind.  They want you to upgrade, but they won’t turn your
> iPhone 5 into a useless piece of crap to force you to upgrade.

Not so, my friend, not so.  People in the Apple camp make the same complaints.  
The "grass is greener" proverb was never more true...just Google "iPhone 4" + 
"iOS 7" to see for yourself...

In fact, the opposite complaint -- that a particular Android phone vendor 
decided to prematurely stop doing software updates for a particular model -- is 
more likely to come from within the Android camp.  There has certainly been 
plenty of ink spilled about that problem.

The key difference in my mind between the two platforms is that at least when 
an Android OS update craps up your phone, *you have the option to downgrade*.  
So you can go back to the way things were before, when things were at least 
working.  At that point, you can decide if you want to buy a new phone so that 
you can use the new software, or wait to see if another to-be-released update 
performs better once it is released.  But in the meantime, while you mull over 
the decision in front of you, you aren't left with a phone that barely works.  
Apple *actively prevents iOS downgrades* using their code-signing mechanism in 
the bootloader.  So assuming they even fix your problem -- performance or 
otherwise -- in a later version, while you are waiting for them to release that 
version, you are stuck using the buggy one.

And if your phone's manufacturer does decide to stop supporting your model (at 
which point the hardware is probably out of warranty anyway), and you want to 
load new software on it, then you're likely not out of options: grab one of the 
AOSP-based releases for your model and flash that instead.  It's likely to work 
better than the vendor's stock firmware anyway.

-- Nathan

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Nathan Anderson]

*raises hand*.  We filter next to zilch.

But here is a better example: how many people on this list that do proactive 
filtering would *refuse* to disable it *if a customer explicitly asked them 
to*?  How about for an important corporate customer that expects that when they 
buy an internet connection from you, they are actually getting a *connection to 
the internet*, and not an entrance pass to a walled garden?

I'm not convinced this is a good analogy anyway, because the internet isn't a 
product, it is an ongoing service.  Hate to break it to you, but as an internet 
provider, you are a utility company.  But you may be on to something, since I 
think Apple and Google have both been progressing towards a view of 
product-as-service mentality, which is another thing that I have a problem 
with...

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 4:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

To use another example... how many people on this list are providing totally 
open, unrestricted, unfiltered Internet service to customers? You aren't 
filtering SMB or NetBIOS or DHCP or any other protocols that have no use on the 
network? You are doing ZERO protection for your customers? I doubt it. You are 
doing that because you are trying to avoid the customer support calls, truck 
rolls, etc... because people don't understand what they are doing with 
technology.

Apple does the same thing. Lock down the devices so people can't cause damage 
to themselves, that Apple then has to fix. :)

Travis

On 10/5/2016 4:57 PM, Nathan Anderson wrote:
People also want their computers to work, period.  I'm not sure I see the 
difference.  This device of mine that you call a "phone" is not actually a 
phone.  That's a misnomer.  It is a pocket computer that happens to have a 
phone app on it.

There are a lot of circumstances today where I used to carry a laptop, but I 
now carry a phone SO THAT I don't have to carry a laptop with me.

The same kind of security model has been applied to so-called tablets, which 
are basically touch-screen laptops without a keyboard on them, but many of them 
can have a keyboard added if desired.  This is not a phone vs. computer debate. 
 The form factor has little to do with the issue at hand.  Apple has even made 
steps that hint at them trying to do similar things to the Mac.  It may only be 
a matter of time until you can't even use a laptop "to do whatever you want".

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

This literally made me laugh out loud... you realize this is less than 1% of 1% 
of the population? Why not just carry a laptop with you to do whatever you want?

People just want their phones to work, period. They want to text, Facebook, 
Snap, Instagram, and take pics. There are probably 1,000 people total that need 
to do what you are talking about with their phones... that's a VERY small 
percentage. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 4:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
Just the fact that Apple now hides the file system from the user and makes it 
impossible to directly manipulate things is a deal breaker for me. I can 
understand why they did it, to stop people from shooting themselves in the foot.

But there a myriad of things I can do on a OnePlus One running CyanogenMod that 
are impossible/restricted/locked down on an iPhone. With the right GUI tools 
and Termux a cyanogenmod phone is very close to a basic Linux shell system:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux=en



On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Nathan Anderson 
<nath...@fsr.com<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote:
To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or more than 
certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012 and did enjoy them, but 
that was back when jailbreaking was more or less mainstream.  The fact that I 
even had to jailbreak in the first place, though, to use *my* phone the way 
that *I* wanted to bothered me, and I switched to Android when Apple's 
code-signing BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing me over at 
one point.

I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a security 
standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires to turn it off, there 
should be a way for the owner of the phone to do so.  By all means, make it a 
difficult process so that the bar to entry is high enough to dissuade the 
average user from doing so, but make it *possible*.  Apple doesn't just use 
code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon with which to bully 
their users.

So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple in this 
endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones better darn well be 
unlockable by the user without

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Nathan Anderson]

Don't forget to toggle off the new SIP/rootless mode on macOS now, too.

Again, at least it is possible to toggle these things off...for now.  If they 
just had a similar thing on iOS, I'd be ecstatic.  If there was an official 
way, via DFU mode or something, to toggle off bootloader signing and enable 
sideloading of apps, it would address all of my complaints.  Such a mechanism 
would *require physical access to a particular device*, which addresses 99% of 
the security objections.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 4:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

The day that Apple stops OSX from being functional as a proper *BSD-ish 
workstation is the day I switch off OSX...

As it is right now it is fairly easy to take a fresh OSX install, toggle the 
security option allowing you to install unsigned apps, oinstall XCode and 
MacPorts and have a full set of command line tools available with "sudo port -v 
install name-of-thing".

https://www.macports.org/

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:57 PM, Nathan Anderson 
<nath...@fsr.com<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote:
People also want their computers to work, period.  I'm not sure I see the 
difference.  This device of mine that you call a "phone" is not actually a 
phone.  That's a misnomer.  It is a pocket computer that happens to have a 
phone app on it.

There are a lot of circumstances today where I used to carry a laptop, but I 
now carry a phone SO THAT I don't have to carry a laptop with me.

The same kind of security model has been applied to so-called tablets, which 
are basically touch-screen laptops without a keyboard on them, but many of them 
can have a keyboard added if desired.  This is not a phone vs. computer debate. 
 The form factor has little to do with the issue at hand.  Apple has even made 
steps that hint at them trying to do similar things to the Mac.  It may only be 
a matter of time until you can't even use a laptop "to do whatever you want".

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:51 PM

To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

This literally made me laugh out loud... you realize this is less than 1% of 1% 
of the population? Why not just carry a laptop with you to do whatever you want?

People just want their phones to work, period. They want to text, Facebook, 
Snap, Instagram, and take pics. There are probably 1,000 people total that need 
to do what you are talking about with their phones... that's a VERY small 
percentage. :)

Travis
On 10/5/2016 4:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
Just the fact that Apple now hides the file system from the user and makes it 
impossible to directly manipulate things is a deal breaker for me. I can 
understand why they did it, to stop people from shooting themselves in the foot.

But there a myriad of things I can do on a OnePlus One running CyanogenMod that 
are impossible/restricted/locked down on an iPhone. With the right GUI tools 
and Termux a cyanogenmod phone is very close to a basic Linux shell system:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux=en

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Nathan Anderson 
<nath...@fsr.com<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote:
To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or more than 
certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012 and did enjoy them, but 
that was back when jailbreaking was more or less mainstream.  The fact that I 
even had to jailbreak in the first place, though, to use *my* phone the way 
that *I* wanted to bothered me, and I switched to Android when Apple's 
code-signing BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing me over at 
one point.

I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a security 
standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires to turn it off, there 
should be a way for the owner of the phone to do so.  By all means, make it a 
difficult process so that the bar to entry is high enough to dissuade the 
average user from doing so, but make it *possible*.  Apple doesn't just use 
code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon with which to bully 
their users.

So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple in this 
endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones better darn well be 
unlockable by the user without the user having to exploit a security 
vulnerability to do so.

-- Nathan

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a
Chevy, some peo

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Nathan Anderson]

People also want their computers to work, period.  I'm not sure I see the 
difference.  This device of mine that you call a "phone" is not actually a 
phone.  That's a misnomer.  It is a pocket computer that happens to have a 
phone app on it.

There are a lot of circumstances today where I used to carry a laptop, but I 
now carry a phone SO THAT I don't have to carry a laptop with me.

The same kind of security model has been applied to so-called tablets, which 
are basically touch-screen laptops without a keyboard on them, but many of them 
can have a keyboard added if desired.  This is not a phone vs. computer debate. 
 The form factor has little to do with the issue at hand.  Apple has even made 
steps that hint at them trying to do similar things to the Mac.  It may only be 
a matter of time until you can't even use a laptop "to do whatever you want".

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

This literally made me laugh out loud... you realize this is less than 1% of 1% 
of the population? Why not just carry a laptop with you to do whatever you want?

People just want their phones to work, period. They want to text, Facebook, 
Snap, Instagram, and take pics. There are probably 1,000 people total that need 
to do what you are talking about with their phones... that's a VERY small 
percentage. :)

Travis

On 10/5/2016 4:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
Just the fact that Apple now hides the file system from the user and makes it 
impossible to directly manipulate things is a deal breaker for me. I can 
understand why they did it, to stop people from shooting themselves in the foot.

But there a myriad of things I can do on a OnePlus One running CyanogenMod that 
are impossible/restricted/locked down on an iPhone. With the right GUI tools 
and Termux a cyanogenmod phone is very close to a basic Linux shell system:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux=en


On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Nathan Anderson 
<nath...@fsr.com<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote:
To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or more than 
certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012 and did enjoy them, but 
that was back when jailbreaking was more or less mainstream.  The fact that I 
even had to jailbreak in the first place, though, to use *my* phone the way 
that *I* wanted to bothered me, and I switched to Android when Apple's 
code-signing BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing me over at 
one point.

I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a security 
standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires to turn it off, there 
should be a way for the owner of the phone to do so.  By all means, make it a 
difficult process so that the bar to entry is high enough to dissuade the 
average user from doing so, but make it *possible*.  Apple doesn't just use 
code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon with which to bully 
their users.

So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple in this 
endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones better darn well be 
unlockable by the user without the user having to exploit a security 
vulnerability to do so.

-- Nathan

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf 
Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a
Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone
would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a
brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is
that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as
smooth, or as refined. Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and
resizes, just like a Chevy gets you from Point A to Point B... but if a
BMW was the same price as a Chevy, 99% of the population would be
driving BMW.

Just my thoughts. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 3:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet
> are Android. So while making it "elegant" is important, it's probably
> more important to make it affordable.
>
> My Nexus phone is a damn fine phone, and I don't feel like I've been
> left out of anything at all.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 10/5/2016 1:57 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>> https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/
>>
>> It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that
>> Apple had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND
>&g

Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

[Nathan Anderson]

To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or more than 
certain design aspects.  I used iPhones from 2008-2012 and did enjoy them, but 
that was back when jailbreaking was more or less mainstream.  The fact that I 
even had to jailbreak in the first place, though, to use *my* phone the way 
that *I* wanted to bothered me, and I switched to Android when Apple's 
code-signing BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing me over at 
one point.

I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a security 
standpoint for the average user.  But if somebody desires to turn it off, there 
should be a way for the owner of the phone to do so.  By all means, make it a 
difficult process so that the bar to entry is high enough to dissuade the 
average user from doing so, but make it *possible*.  Apple doesn't just use 
code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon with which to bully 
their users.

So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple in this 
endeavor, it is this.  The bootloader on the new phones better darn well be 
unlockable by the user without the user having to exploit a security 
vulnerability to do so.

-- Nathan

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple

Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a 
Chevy, some people drive a BMW.

I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone 
would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a 
brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is 
that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as 
smooth, or as refined. Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and 
resizes, just like a Chevy gets you from Point A to Point B... but if a 
BMW was the same price as a Chevy, 99% of the population would be 
driving BMW.

Just my thoughts. :)

Travis


On 10/5/2016 3:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet 
> are Android. So while making it "elegant" is important, it's probably 
> more important to make it affordable.
>
> My Nexus phone is a damn fine phone, and I don't feel like I've been 
> left out of anything at all.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 10/5/2016 1:57 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>> https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/
>>
>> It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that 
>> Apple had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND 
>> software to have an awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from 
>> the very beginning with the Macintosh... and now everyone else is 
>> finally understanding.
>>
>> So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the 
>> marketing materials.  Every commercial they run (along with Samsung 
>> and everyone else) is always "this is why our product is better than 
>> Apple". If a company really believes that, you don't have to make the 
>> direct comparison. LOL
>>
>> "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton
>>
>> Travis
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Can't downgrade mikrotik routeros

[Nathan Anderson]

(Holy cross-posting, Batman!)

It is possible that MT did a board revision, and the newer revision of the 
hardware requires 6.35.2 as minimum for the reasons Josh stated 
(drivers/hardware support, etc.).  However, you could certainly try your luck 
with Netinstall.

What model of CCR is this?

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 4:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Cc: Mikrotik Users; memb...@wispa.org; Principal WISPA Member List
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Can't downgrade mikrotik routeros


Probably a requirement for drivers or the firmware :(

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sep 28, 2016 7:05 PM, "Darin Steffl" 
> wrote:
Looks like the os won't let me go below the factory version according to the 
log file pic I attached.

Would net install allow me to go to the version we want?

On Wednesday, September 28, 2016, Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
Yes I clicked downgrade already and tried it from the command line.

On Wednesday, September 28, 2016, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:

Did you click downgrade?  You don't do this like a normal update.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sep 28, 2016 6:58 PM, "Darin Steffl" 
> wrote:
Hello all,

We are trying to install our normal mikrotik os version which is 6.32.4 since 
we have tested and found it the most stable.

The latest ccr router we received has 6.35.2 on it and we're not having any 
luck getting it to downgrade to the stable bug fix version. Some mikrotik forum 
posts say that you're not able to downgrade the software below what it shipped 
with. I find this doesn't make sense because the os didn't ship with the bug 
fix release, but rather the more unstable "current" version.

Any advice how to downgrade when the normal procedure doesn't work? Is it 
possible to downgrade to a version lower than what the factory installed?

If not, would net install work to force the version we want? The way it is now, 
there's not even a possible way to install the latest 6.34.6 bug fix release 
since it's lower than 6.35.2

Any help is appreciated. Thanks

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
[http://www.snoitulosten.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/facebook-small.jpg]
 Like us on Facebook


___
Members mailing list
memb...@wispa.org
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/members


--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
[http://www.snoitulosten.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/facebook-small.jpg]
 Like us on Facebook



--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
[http://www.snoitulosten.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/facebook-small.jpg]
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] cnMaestro On-Premise

[Nathan Anderson]

I for one would be ecstatic at an apt-based platform, as that is what I prefer 
to use for my own installs that I manage.

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 6:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] cnMaestro On-Premise

Dear Cambium, y u no CentOS bro?
On 7/8/2016 8:10 PM, Nathan Anderson wrote:
So the OVA is Debian or Ubuntu-based?

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 6:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] cnMaestro On-Premise

Oh, it comes with VMTools compiled. I would use the open-vm-tools package so it 
updates when I update the rest of the system.

You can specify your own DNS servers, but it still appends two of Google's for 
you.

It has packages installed that aren't required, per apt.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net<mailto:af...@ics-il.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, July 8, 2016 8:04:32 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] cnMaestro On-Premise
It's very easy to install, comes as an OVA built on Ubuntu 14.04.

It has a nice TUI for the console to do things like changing IPs, console 
password, etc.

The web UI has an 8 - 16 character password requirement. #shittypasswords




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

Re: [AFMUG] cnMaestro On-Premise

[Nathan Anderson]

So the OVA is Debian or Ubuntu-based?

-- Nathan

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 6:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] cnMaestro On-Premise

Oh, it comes with VMTools compiled. I would use the open-vm-tools package so it 
updates when I update the rest of the system.

You can specify your own DNS servers, but it still appends two of Google's for 
you.

It has packages installed that aren't required, per apt.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Mike Hammett" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, July 8, 2016 8:04:32 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] cnMaestro On-Premise
It's very easy to install, comes as an OVA built on Ubuntu 14.04.

It has a nice TUI for the console to do things like changing IPs, console 
password, etc.

The web UI has an 8 - 16 character password requirement. #shittypasswords



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]

Re: [AFMUG] Baicells - who's deployed it?

[Nathan Anderson]

Yeah, no...that explanation makes no sense to me.  ENBs made for the mobile 
market exclusively employ local offload and enforce NAT?  Pretty sure not.  If 
anything, mobile providers are GTP-U tunneling customer traffic to a central 
PGW where the NAT happens (if it happens).

The best "Occam's razor" answer I can manage to come up with is that since 
fixed wireless providers are *not* likely to have their own 3GPP cores, and 
since they've stated that they are trying to make deployment for providers as 
easy as possible, and since the software is still being baked, they are 
probably trying to cover the widest Venn-diagram section of use-cases possible 
with the amount of time and effort they currently have available to spend (most 
bang for their engineering buck).  Let's face it: a good chunk of fixed 
regional operators do not have enough v4 addresses to cover all of their 
end-users, and they already NAT a vast majority of them.  So Baicells probably 
thought, for us to start getting results back from the trial as quickly as 
possible, we need to remove as much friction as possible from the chore of 
getting these ENBs in the air.  So rather than requiring providers to spend a 
bunch of time configuring a gateway and figuring out how to set up an IP pool 
for an address block that they define, they would just have the trial 
participants hand the ENB a single IP and have it locally NAT user traffic, 
which is the simplest configuration possible that covers the widest likely set 
of use-cases.

That's not to say that they won't make it more flexible in the future.  At 
least, I certainly *hope* not.

-- Nathan

-Original Message-
From: craig at skywaveconnect.com (Craig Schmaderer) [mailto:craig at 
skywaveconnect.com (Craig Schmaderer)] 
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 8:12 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Baicells - who's deployed it?

I think it is because they are using the software they use over in china for 
cell phone (mobile) deployment.  This is their first run at fixed, so some 
features we take as normal are not always that way in the mobile market.   It 
was not started that way from scratch is what I am being told.

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces at afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 10:05 AM
To: af at afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells - who's deployed it?

I'm not sure why someone thought NAT needed to be done at the eNB in the first 
place.


- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP


From: "Craig Schmaderer" mailto:craig at 
skywaveconnect.com>>
To: af at afmug.com
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 10:01:11 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells - who's deployed it?
I just got this email from that customer this morning?..   The NAT issue is a 
big thing Baicells is working on with the software, remember it is still 
heavily in beta?.



FYI - that radio worked pretty good during the storm Friday night. We lost 
power in Dodge for about an hour, but as soon as it came back on I checked it. 
Even in heavy rain and wind with those trees moving all over the place, I was 
still easily pulling 30-35.

I also got a chance to test out some gaming on the Xbox. The latency is awesome 
and good enough for any type of game, but the multiple NATs are an issue. My 
NAT type is listed as ?Strict?, which is the worst on the scale (Open, 
Moderate, Strict). Once we can do bridging on the CPE, I don?t see any reason 
why the NAT shouldn?t be detected as ?Open.?





From: Af [mailto:af-bounces at afmug.com] On Behalf Of Craig Schmaderer
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 9:39 AM
To: af at afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells - who's deployed it?

Its not bad, I need to do more testing, but it seems to be around 10-15ms or.  
Don?t quote me on that though ??

From: Af [mailto:af-bounces at afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 8:48 AM
To: af at afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells - who's deployed it?

Latency?

From: Craig Schmaderer
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 7:45 AM
To: af at afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Baicells - who's deployed it?

I don?t have any 3.65 450 or wimax gear to compare it to, but so far nlos 
probably has exceeded my expectations.  We are trying to cover a town of about 
400 homes and the tower is on the edge, all the main links will be between .5 
and 1 mile and so far we have 3 links going through anywhere between 3 and 7 
trees.  If it is just 1 or 2 trees you barely notice a speed drop.  This link 
gets around 70mb down and 7mb up.  We have the LTE set to subframe 3:1 so LOS 
results will get you about 90mb down and 8ish up.  Our worst link so far which 
goes through a lot of stuff gets around 40mb down and 1mb up.  The upload is 
what will stop your link before the download.   I will get back to you on 
pricing, not