Don't forget to toggle off the new SIP/rootless mode on macOS now, too. Again, at least it is possible to toggle these things off...for now. If they just had a similar thing on iOS, I'd be ecstatic. If there was an official way, via DFU mode or something, to toggle off bootloader signing and enable sideloading of apps, it would address all of my complaints. Such a mechanism would *require physical access to a particular device*, which addresses 99% of the security objections.
-- Nathan From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 4:02 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple The day that Apple stops OSX from being functional as a proper *BSD-ish workstation is the day I switch off OSX... As it is right now it is fairly easy to take a fresh OSX install, toggle the security option allowing you to install unsigned apps, oinstall XCode and MacPorts and have a full set of command line tools available with "sudo port -v install name-of-thing". https://www.macports.org/ On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:57 PM, Nathan Anderson <nath...@fsr.com<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote: People also want their computers to work, period. I'm not sure I see the difference. This device of mine that you call a "phone" is not actually a phone. That's a misnomer. It is a pocket computer that happens to have a phone app on it. There are a lot of circumstances today where I used to carry a laptop, but I now carry a phone SO THAT I don't have to carry a laptop with me. The same kind of security model has been applied to so-called tablets, which are basically touch-screen laptops without a keyboard on them, but many of them can have a keyboard added if desired. This is not a phone vs. computer debate. The form factor has little to do with the issue at hand. Apple has even made steps that hint at them trying to do similar things to the Mac. It may only be a matter of time until you can't even use a laptop "to do whatever you want". -- Nathan From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:51 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple This literally made me laugh out loud... you realize this is less than 1% of 1% of the population? Why not just carry a laptop with you to do whatever you want? People just want their phones to work, period. They want to text, Facebook, Snap, Instagram, and take pics. There are probably 1,000 people total that need to do what you are talking about with their phones... that's a VERY small percentage. :) Travis On 10/5/2016 4:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote: Just the fact that Apple now hides the file system from the user and makes it impossible to directly manipulate things is a deal breaker for me. I can understand why they did it, to stop people from shooting themselves in the foot. But there a myriad of things I can do on a OnePlus One running CyanogenMod that are impossible/restricted/locked down on an iPhone. With the right GUI tools and Termux a cyanogenmod phone is very close to a basic Linux shell system: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux&hl=en On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Nathan Anderson <nath...@fsr.com<mailto:nath...@fsr.com>> wrote: To some people, such as myself, openness matters as much as or more than certain design aspects. I used iPhones from 2008-2012 and did enjoy them, but that was back when jailbreaking was more or less mainstream. The fact that I even had to jailbreak in the first place, though, to use *my* phone the way that *I* wanted to bothered me, and I switched to Android when Apple's code-signing BS got to be too much and actually ended up screwing me over at one point. I'm not saying that code-signing is bad...it is great from a security standpoint for the average user. But if somebody desires to turn it off, there should be a way for the owner of the phone to do so. By all means, make it a difficult process so that the bar to entry is high enough to dissuade the average user from doing so, but make it *possible*. Apple doesn't just use code-signing for security, they also use it as a bludgeon with which to bully their users. So if there is one aspect where I hope Google did *not* copy Apple in this endeavor, it is this. The bootloader on the new phones better darn well be unlockable by the user without the user having to exploit a security vulnerability to do so. -- Nathan -----Original Message----- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 3:31 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google wants to be Apple Some people ride a Honda, some people ride a Harley. Some people drive a Chevy, some people drive a BMW. I think it was you that even said "If the price was the same, everyone would be using an iPhone"... which I honestly believe. I have used a brand new Samsung phone with Android, and the first thing I noticed is that the screen response is not the same as an iPhone... it's not as smooth, or as refined. Yes, it works... it scrolls and it zooms and resizes, just like a Chevy gets you from Point A to Point B... but if a BMW was the same price as a Chevy, 99% of the population would be driving BMW. Just my thoughts. :) Travis On 10/5/2016 3:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote: > I will point out (again) that 8 to 9 of 10 smartphones on the planet > are Android. So while making it "elegant" is important, it's probably > more important to make it affordable. > > My Nexus phone is a damn fine phone, and I don't feel like I've been > left out of anything at all. > > > bp > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> > > On 10/5/2016 1:57 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: >> https://techcrunch.com/2016/10/05/not-ok-google/ >> >> It's taken a while, many years, but Google has finally admitted that >> Apple had it right all along... you have to control the hardware AND >> software to have an awesome product. This was Steve Job's goal from >> the very beginning with the Macintosh... and now everyone else is >> finally understanding. >> >> So now Google is copying everything Apple does... even down to the >> marketing materials. Every commercial they run (along with Samsung >> and everyone else) is always "this is why our product is better than >> Apple". If a company really believes that, you don't have to make the >> direct comparison. LOL >> >> "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" ~Charles Caleb Colton >> >> Travis >> > >
