Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Paul Stewart]

I offered before to run it for free …. just saying .. and I know there were 
others too …

Running mailing lists isn’t a major investment especially if you already have 
the infrastructure (which I do) 

Paul



> On Mar 1, 2017, at 3:12 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> I agree. The list keeps me out of the bar. I know it's too far to drive 
> anyway, but it's my excuse. I would be happy to through in something to avoid 
> draining Paul's bank account. There are plenty of us. Couldn't be more than 
> $100/month each.
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 12:09 PM, Josh Luthman 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I can two click delete emails from this list, last few weeks have been utter 
> garbage for sure.
> 
> What's the monthly cost of the list?  I think those of us that have benefited 
> from it could throw a few bucks to help you out.
> 
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Paul McCall  > wrote:
> I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the list 
> directly, so here goes.
>  
> Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or two 
> people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all the BS, 
> politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to because of 
> that. 
>  
> While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS is 
> very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point of 
> my comment.
>  
> People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on 
> important technology and business needs, IMO. 
>  
> It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.
>  
> Paul
>  
>  
> Paul McCall, President
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
> 772-564-6800  
> pa...@pdmnet.net 
> www.pdmnet.com 
> www.floridabroadband.com 
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Perhaps a new listafmug-cheers  :)

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <li...@packetflux.com>
To: "af" <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related 
discussions
Date: Wed, Mar 1, 2017 3:02 PM

I have a different perspective on this list 
I've been going to post something along this lines for a while, but since it 
came up today, I guess it's as good of a time as any

Back in the day none of us were quite sure what we were doing.   The need for a 
technical list was great.   We needed to discuss how to use this gear, what the 
new gear could do, etc...   Every day there was a new challenge for many of us, 
which someone else on the list had probably figured out.

Fast forward until now, For most of us, our networks have matured, or been 
sold.  Many of our core members aren't even really WISP's anymore.   For those 
who are still doing day to day operations, most of us have figured out how 
things work for us, and we really don't need discussions about network 
architecture and routing and the like.   Add to that the excellent resources 
that WISPA provides in the form of conferences where people can learn the 
technical skills they need, and technically-oriented mailing lists which they 
host, and this list starts to look a bit redundant from a technical-resource 
standpoint.

What this list has, which none of the others do, is a community of members 
which have grown up together and seen each other grow businesses, sell them, 
get rich, get sued, release products, survive tornadoes and other natural 
disasters, and all of the other things which bring people together.

On all of the other lists, such off-topic discussions as what Travis is 
investing in this week, and what Jaimie is cooking, and what movie Chuck is 
watching, and the awesome ramblings of Steve and so on would be squashed.  Yet 
we're all friends and like to discuss things.  Yes, the politics have gotten a 
bit out of control, but that's just a symptom that politics have gotten a bit 
out of control in this country.   

Personally, I see this list not as a technical resource, but a social resource. 
  Somewhere where we all know each other and a lot of each other's past history 
and drama.  So we talk more about everyday life and less about work?  I don't 
see a problem with this.  Where else is this going to occur?   I realize that 
this doesn't match the original vision for this list, but needs change and 
lists change.   What we need is a place to hang out and have conversations with 
our friends.  Why can't this list be that resource?

-forrest

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Paul McCall <pa...@pdmnet.net> wrote:








I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the list 
directly, so here goes.
 
Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or two 
people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all the BS, 
politics, etc..  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much
as I used to because of that.  
 
While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS is 
very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point of my 
comment.
 
People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on important 
technology and business needs, IMO. 

 
It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.
 
Paul
 
 
Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800  
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com
 
 








-- 
Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

This 

Hell I even read it on my phone

I used to laugh at people that did that until I became one of them

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related 
discussions
Date: Wed, Mar 1, 2017 2:38 PM

The whole OT tag, IMO, is a joke.  I take 10 seconds glancing at the subject 
lines, read the ones I want to see, and then delete the rest.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
Another perspective:
The additional content drives eyeballs. It shows the list is active. You can't 
make 100% of people happy 100% of the time.

On Mar 1, 2017 2:18 PM, "Paul McCall" <pa...@pdmnet.net> wrote:







Maybe defining a little better what OT:    ?
 
I use filters all the time.  OT: originally meant (to me)... relevant 
discussions to the business but not necessarily technology.   What someone 
discusses emerging battery technology, or 401Ks for employees, or insurance, 
etc. etc.,
it used to be THAT was OT:
 
Sooo…. Maybe BS: or PRS:  Political, Religious or Social ?    Unless you 
“identify” your PRS content as just OT:  (sorry, couldn’t resist the 
trans-gender “identify” phrase) –  see, I have a sense of humor like the next 
guy.
 
It’s just become like there is just no limit, and if people (not just me) are 
going away from looking at the list, we have lost a LOT of good input from 
folks who are serious about their business, who don’t have time to delete 
threads.
 
Maybe, I just need more coffee 
J
 
Paul
 
 
 
-Original Message-

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen

Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 3:00 PM

To: af@afmug.com

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business 
related discussions
 
On 3/1/17 11:37, Chuck McCown wrote:
> Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or

> change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list

> is most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger

> warnings unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It

> is kinda like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon

> neighbors seeing me parked out front.
> 
 
 
If someone has a problem with the off topic stuff marked OT, then they need to 
learn how to filter it out in their mail client, not get hurt feelings than 
someone isn't protecting them with a safe place.
 
The only change I would suggest is to always mark off topic as [OT] which makes 
it stupid easy to create a subject filter looking for string "[OT]" and not 
worry about the letters o and t in sequence get caught in a normal word.
 
The social aspect of this list is the best part. I've been on lists that went 
out of control like the old SPAM-L, and AFMUG is not even close to the extreme 
SPAM-L was when it died.
 
~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[George Skorup]

I've stayed out of the political stuff. Just.. no. I have better things 
to do. That's not to say I think those conversations shouldn't take 
place here. It's Chuck's list, so whatever he says. And Paul pays for it 
as he said. I do think that it gets heated and a little nuts with all of 
the posts here sometimes, but whatever.


I was thinking about unsubscribing at one point, like you know, around 
that whole election day a few months back. But as Forrest pointed out, 
there are too many people here with valuable experiences, opinions, etc. 
and some that are not on other lists. I think this is a great place to 
hang out if everyone is reasonable and respectful. Ken and Forrest 
usually post in the most logical terms and I love that. Reading humor 
from others also makes me feel like I'm taking a quick break from 
reality. Rack/enclosure pr0n, etc.


Yeah, I've been around since Bullit and the Part-15.org days. We 
definitely don't need to go back to Michael's iron-fisted way of 
moderating. That's was just stupid. I understood at the time that he 
wanted to keep the vendor-specific stuff on their respective lists. 
Again, as Forrest said, we have evolved, and WISPA has that covered. I 
think it is so freakin cool to see a converged WISPAmerica/Animal Farm 
if only for the fact that those folks, new or old, who may only have 
ever been to WISPA shows will get the AF experience.


In the words of Forrest Gump... that's all I have to say about that.

On 3/1/2017 3:02 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

I have a different perspective on this list

I've been going to post something along this lines for a while, but 
since it came up today, I guess it's as good of a time as any


Back in the day none of us were quite sure what we were doing.   The 
need for a technical list was great.   We needed to discuss how to use 
this gear, what the new gear could do, etc..   Every day there was a 
new challenge for many of us, which someone else on the list had 
probably figured out.


Fast forward until now, For most of us, our networks have matured, or 
been sold.  Many of our core members aren't even really WISP's 
anymore.   For those who are still doing day to day operations, most 
of us have figured out how things work for us, and we really don't 
need discussions about network architecture and routing and the like. 
  Add to that the excellent resources that WISPA provides in the form 
of conferences where people can learn the technical skills they need, 
and technically-oriented mailing lists which they host, and this list 
starts to look a bit redundant from a technical-resource standpoint.


What this list has, which none of the others do, is a community of 
members which have grown up together and seen each other grow 
businesses, sell them, get rich, get sued, release products, survive 
tornadoes and other natural disasters, and all of the other things 
which bring people together.


On all of the other lists, such off-topic discussions as what Travis 
is investing in this week, and what Jaimie is cooking, and what movie 
Chuck is watching, and the awesome ramblings of Steve and so on would 
be squashed.  Yet we're all friends and like to discuss things.  Yes, 
the politics have gotten a bit out of control, but that's just a 
symptom that politics have gotten a bit out of control in this country.


Personally, I see this list not as a technical resource, but a social 
resource.   Somewhere where we all know each other and a lot of each 
other's past history and drama.  So we talk more about everyday life 
and less about work?  I don't see a problem with this.  Where else is 
this going to occur? I realize that this doesn't match the original 
vision for this list, but needs change and lists change.   What we 
need is a place to hang out and have conversations with our friends. 
Why can't this list be that resource?


-forrest

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Paul McCall > wrote:


I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this
with the list directly, so here goes.

/Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get
one or two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list
because of all the BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG
nearly as much as I used to because of that. /



/While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never
complained), AWS is very solid and reliable, so it was a great
choice.  That’s not the point of my comment./



/People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can
focus on important technology and business needs, IMO. /



/It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents./

Paul

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800 

pa...@pdmnet.net 

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I have a different perspective on this list

I've been going to post something along this lines for a while, but since
it came up today, I guess it's as good of a time as any

Back in the day none of us were quite sure what we were doing.   The need
for a technical list was great.   We needed to discuss how to use this
gear, what the new gear could do, etc..   Every day there was a new
challenge for many of us, which someone else on the list had probably
figured out.

Fast forward until now, For most of us, our networks have matured, or been
sold.  Many of our core members aren't even really WISP's anymore.   For
those who are still doing day to day operations, most of us have figured
out how things work for us, and we really don't need discussions about
network architecture and routing and the like.   Add to that the excellent
resources that WISPA provides in the form of conferences where people can
learn the technical skills they need, and technically-oriented mailing
lists which they host, and this list starts to look a bit redundant from a
technical-resource standpoint.

What this list has, which none of the others do, is a community of members
which have grown up together and seen each other grow businesses, sell
them, get rich, get sued, release products, survive tornadoes and other
natural disasters, and all of the other things which bring people together.

On all of the other lists, such off-topic discussions as what Travis is
investing in this week, and what Jaimie is cooking, and what movie Chuck is
watching, and the awesome ramblings of Steve and so on would be squashed.
Yet we're all friends and like to discuss things.  Yes, the politics have
gotten a bit out of control, but that's just a symptom that politics have
gotten a bit out of control in this country.

Personally, I see this list not as a technical resource, but a social
resource.   Somewhere where we all know each other and a lot of each
other's past history and drama.  So we talk more about everyday life and
less about work?  I don't see a problem with this.  Where else is this
going to occur?   I realize that this doesn't match the original vision for
this list, but needs change and lists change.   What we need is a place to
hang out and have conversations with our friends.  Why can't this list be
that resource?

-forrest

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the
> list directly, so here goes.
>
>
>
> *Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or
> two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all
> the BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to
> because of that.  *
>
>
>
> *While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS
> is very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point
> of my comment.*
>
>
>
> *People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on
> important technology and business needs, IMO.  *
>
>
>
> *It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.*
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Josh Luthman]

The whole OT tag, IMO, is a joke.  I take 10 seconds glancing at the
subject lines, read the ones I want to see, and then delete the rest.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:

> Another perspective:
>
> The additional content drives eyeballs. It shows the list is active. You
> can't make 100% of people happy 100% of the time.
>
> On Mar 1, 2017 2:18 PM, "Paul McCall" <pa...@pdmnet.net> wrote:
>
>> Maybe defining a little better what *OT:*?
>>
>>
>>
>> I use filters all the time.  OT: originally meant (to me)... relevant
>> discussions to the business but not necessarily technology.   What someone
>> discusses emerging battery technology, or 401Ks for employees, or
>> insurance, etc. etc., it used to be THAT was OT:
>>
>>
>>
>> Sooo…. Maybe BS: or PRS:  Political, Religious or Social ?Unless you
>> “identify” your PRS content as just OT:  (sorry, couldn’t resist the
>> trans-gender “identify” phrase) –  see, I have a sense of humor like the
>> next guy.
>>
>>
>>
>> It’s just become like there is just no limit, and if people (not just me)
>> are going away from looking at the list, we have lost a LOT of good input
>> from folks who are serious about their business, who don’t have time to
>> delete threads.
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe, I just need more coffee J
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 3:00 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business
>> related discussions
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/1/17 11:37, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> > Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or
>>
>> > change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list
>>
>> > is most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger
>>
>> > warnings unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It
>>
>> > is kinda like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon
>>
>> > neighbors seeing me parked out front.
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> If someone has a problem with the off topic stuff marked OT, then they
>> need to learn how to filter it out in their mail client, not get hurt
>> feelings than someone isn't protecting them with a safe place.
>>
>>
>>
>> The only change I would suggest is to always mark off topic as [OT] which
>> makes it stupid easy to create a subject filter looking for string "[OT]"
>> and not worry about the letters o and t in sequence get caught in a normal
>> word.
>>
>>
>>
>> The social aspect of this list is the best part. I've been on lists that
>> went out of control like the old SPAM-L, and AFMUG is not even close to the
>> extreme SPAM-L was when it died.
>>
>>
>>
>> ~Seth
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Josh Reynolds]

Another perspective:

The additional content drives eyeballs. It shows the list is active. You
can't make 100% of people happy 100% of the time.

On Mar 1, 2017 2:18 PM, "Paul McCall" <pa...@pdmnet.net> wrote:

> Maybe defining a little better what *OT:*?
>
>
>
> I use filters all the time.  OT: originally meant (to me)... relevant
> discussions to the business but not necessarily technology.   What someone
> discusses emerging battery technology, or 401Ks for employees, or
> insurance, etc. etc., it used to be THAT was OT:
>
>
>
> Sooo…. Maybe BS: or PRS:  Political, Religious or Social ?Unless you
> “identify” your PRS content as just OT:  (sorry, couldn’t resist the
> trans-gender “identify” phrase) –  see, I have a sense of humor like the
> next guy.
>
>
>
> It’s just become like there is just no limit, and if people (not just me)
> are going away from looking at the list, we have lost a LOT of good input
> from folks who are serious about their business, who don’t have time to
> delete threads.
>
>
>
> Maybe, I just need more coffee J
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
> Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 3:00 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business
> related discussions
>
>
>
> On 3/1/17 11:37, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> > Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or
>
> > change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list
>
> > is most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger
>
> > warnings unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It
>
> > is kinda like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon
>
> > neighbors seeing me parked out front.
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> If someone has a problem with the off topic stuff marked OT, then they
> need to learn how to filter it out in their mail client, not get hurt
> feelings than someone isn't protecting them with a safe place.
>
>
>
> The only change I would suggest is to always mark off topic as [OT] which
> makes it stupid easy to create a subject filter looking for string "[OT]"
> and not worry about the letters o and t in sequence get caught in a normal
> word.
>
>
>
> The social aspect of this list is the best part. I've been on lists that
> went out of control like the old SPAM-L, and AFMUG is not even close to the
> extreme SPAM-L was when it died.
>
>
>
> ~Seth
>

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Chuck McCown]

Eudora doesn’t have that button.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 1:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business 
related discussions

People really need to learn how to use the new e-mail button  or right 
click on the destination and click new mail.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 2:12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business 
related discussions

Agreed, [OT] would be nice. Also, threaded mail clients like 
Thunderchicken can't tell the difference sometimes when someone clicks 
the reply button on an OT thread. They completely change the subject, 
but the headers are still there. So a non-OT topic will get buried in 
the OT thread. I frequently collapse entire threads and hit the delete 
button. So start a new message is all I'm saying.

On 3/1/2017 1:59 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> On 3/1/17 11:37, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or
>> change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is
>> most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings
>> unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda
>> like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors
>> seeing me parked out front.
>>
>
>
> If someone has a problem with the off topic stuff marked OT, then they 
> need to learn how to filter it out in their mail client, not get hurt 
> feelings than someone isn't protecting them with a safe place.
>
> The only change I would suggest is to always mark off topic as [OT] 
> which makes it stupid easy to create a subject filter looking for 
> string "[OT]" and not worry about the letters o and t in sequence get 
> caught in a normal word.
>
> The social aspect of this list is the best part. I've been on lists 
> that went out of control like the old SPAM-L, and AFMUG is not even 
> close to the extreme SPAM-L was when it died.
>
> ~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Mike Hammett]

People really need to learn how to use the new e-mail button or right click 
on the destination and click new mail. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "George Skorup" <george.sko...@cbcast.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 2:12:28 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business 
related discussions 

Agreed, [OT] would be nice. Also, threaded mail clients like 
Thunderchicken can't tell the difference sometimes when someone clicks 
the reply button on an OT thread. They completely change the subject, 
but the headers are still there. So a non-OT topic will get buried in 
the OT thread. I frequently collapse entire threads and hit the delete 
button. So start a new message is all I'm saying. 

On 3/1/2017 1:59 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote: 
> On 3/1/17 11:37, Chuck McCown wrote: 
>> Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or 
>> change other than to remain a place where we can hang out. This list is 
>> most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings 
>> unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”. It is kinda 
>> like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors 
>> seeing me parked out front. 
>> 
> 
> 
> If someone has a problem with the off topic stuff marked OT, then they 
> need to learn how to filter it out in their mail client, not get hurt 
> feelings than someone isn't protecting them with a safe place. 
> 
> The only change I would suggest is to always mark off topic as [OT] 
> which makes it stupid easy to create a subject filter looking for 
> string "[OT]" and not worry about the letters o and t in sequence get 
> caught in a normal word. 
> 
> The social aspect of this list is the best part. I've been on lists 
> that went out of control like the old SPAM-L, and AFMUG is not even 
> close to the extreme SPAM-L was when it died. 
> 
> ~Seth 

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Paul McCall]

Maybe defining a little better what OT:?



I use filters all the time.  OT: originally meant (to me)... relevant 
discussions to the business but not necessarily technology.   What someone 
discusses emerging battery technology, or 401Ks for employees, or insurance, 
etc. etc., it used to be THAT was OT:



Sooo…. Maybe BS: or PRS:  Political, Religious or Social ?Unless you 
“identify” your PRS content as just OT:  (sorry, couldn’t resist the 
trans-gender “identify” phrase) –  see, I have a sense of humor like the next 
guy.



It’s just become like there is just no limit, and if people (not just me) are 
going away from looking at the list, we have lost a LOT of good input from 
folks who are serious about their business, who don’t have time to delete 
threads.



Maybe, I just need more coffee ☺



Paul







-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 3:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business 
related discussions



On 3/1/17 11:37, Chuck McCown wrote:

> Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or

> change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list

> is most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger

> warnings unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It

> is kinda like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon

> neighbors seeing me parked out front.

>





If someone has a problem with the off topic stuff marked OT, then they need to 
learn how to filter it out in their mail client, not get hurt feelings than 
someone isn't protecting them with a safe place.



The only change I would suggest is to always mark off topic as [OT] which makes 
it stupid easy to create a subject filter looking for string "[OT]" and not 
worry about the letters o and t in sequence get caught in a normal word.



The social aspect of this list is the best part. I've been on lists that went 
out of control like the old SPAM-L, and AFMUG is not even close to the extreme 
SPAM-L was when it died.



~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Bill Prince]

I agree. The list keeps me out of the bar. I know it's too far to drive anyway, 
but it's my excuse. I would be happy to through in something to avoid draining 
Paul's bank account. There are plenty of us. Couldn't be more than $100/month 
each.
bp 

On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 12:09 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:
 

 I can two click delete emails from this list, last few weeks have been utter 
garbage for sure.
What's the monthly cost of the list?  I think those of us that have benefited 
from it could throw a few bucks to help you out.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the list 
directly, so here goes. Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with 
WISPs,  I get one or two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list 
because of all the BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as 
I used to because of that.   While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have 
never complained), AWS is very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  
That’s not the point of my comment. People need to take that junk to some other 
venue, so we can focus on important technology and business needs, IMO.  It 
probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents. Paul  Paul McCall, PresidentPDMNet, 
Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.658 Old Dixie HighwayVero Beach, FL 
32962772-564-6800  pa...@pdmnet.netwww.pdmnet.comwww.floridabroadband.com  



   

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[George Skorup]

Agreed, [OT] would be nice. Also, threaded mail clients like 
Thunderchicken can't tell the difference sometimes when someone clicks 
the reply button on an OT thread. They completely change the subject, 
but the headers are still there. So a non-OT topic will get buried in 
the OT thread. I frequently collapse entire threads and hit the delete 
button. So start a new message is all I'm saying.


On 3/1/2017 1:59 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 3/1/17 11:37, Chuck McCown wrote:

Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or
change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is
most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings
unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda
like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors
seeing me parked out front.




If someone has a problem with the off topic stuff marked OT, then they 
need to learn how to filter it out in their mail client, not get hurt 
feelings than someone isn't protecting them with a safe place.


The only change I would suggest is to always mark off topic as [OT] 
which makes it stupid easy to create a subject filter looking for 
string "[OT]" and not worry about the letters o and t in sequence get 
caught in a normal word.


The social aspect of this list is the best part. I've been on lists 
that went out of control like the old SPAM-L, and AFMUG is not even 
close to the extreme SPAM-L was when it died.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Josh Luthman]

I can two click delete emails from this list, last few weeks have been
utter garbage for sure.

What's the monthly cost of the list?  I think those of us that have
benefited from it could throw a few bucks to help you out.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the
> list directly, so here goes.
>
>
>
> *Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or
> two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all
> the BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to
> because of that.  *
>
>
>
> *While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS
> is very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point
> of my comment.*
>
>
>
> *People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on
> important technology and business needs, IMO.  *
>
>
>
> *It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.*
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Seth Mattinen]

On 3/1/17 11:37, Chuck McCown wrote:

Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or
change other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is
most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings
unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda
like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors
seeing me parked out front.




If someone has a problem with the off topic stuff marked OT, then they 
need to learn how to filter it out in their mail client, not get hurt 
feelings than someone isn't protecting them with a safe place.


The only change I would suggest is to always mark off topic as [OT] 
which makes it stupid easy to create a subject filter looking for string 
"[OT]" and not worry about the letters o and t in sequence get caught in 
a normal word.


The social aspect of this list is the best part. I've been on lists that 
went out of control like the old SPAM-L, and AFMUG is not even close to 
the extreme SPAM-L was when it died.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Bill Prince]

Go for it guys. That's what I thought the "OT:" prefix is for. If it's too 
much, or eating your time, filter the "OT:" stuff to begin with. Then when you 
want to pop a brewsky and yuck it up, go to your OT: folder to see what's up.
-bp 

On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 11:37 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
 

  I agree, 
it gets out of hand.  Sometimes I say something but most of the time I let the 
self policing nature of the list do what nature does.   For many of us, this 
list is as close to social media we want to go.  Many of us have been on here 
since it was part-15.  15 years or so.   Personally I don’t have any desire for 
the list to grow or shrink or change other than to remain a place where we can 
hang out.  This list is most certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see 
trigger warnings unless you see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It 
is kinda like a friendly bar that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors 
seeing me parked out front.   Once upon a time Doug Clark was a semi offical 
list daddy.  That lasted until Doug got pissed about something.   As always ALL 
opinions will be more-or-less welcomed.     From: Paul McCall Sent: Wednesday, 
March 01, 2017 12:25 PMTo: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] List topics and 
verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions I shared this with 
Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the list directly, so here 
goes.   Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or 
two people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all the 
BS, politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to because 
of that.     While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never 
complained), AWS is very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s 
not the point of my comment.   People need to take that junk to some other 
venue, so we can focus on important technology and business needs, IMO.     It 
probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.   Paul     Paul McCall, President 
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc. 658 Old Dixie Highway Vero Beach, FL 
32962 772-564-6800   pa...@pdmnet.net www.pdmnet.com www.floridabroadband.com   
  

   

Re: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Chuck McCown]

I agree, it gets out of hand.  
Sometimes I say something but most of the time I let the self policing nature 
of the list do what nature does.  

For many of us, this list is as close to social media we want to go.  
Many of us have been on here since it was part-15.  15 years or so.  

Personally I don’t have any desire for the list to grow or shrink or change 
other than to remain a place where we can hang out.  This list is most 
certainly not a “safe place” and you will not see trigger warnings unless you 
see the occasional literal “trigger warning”.  It is kinda like a friendly bar 
that I can hang out in without my Mormon neighbors seeing me parked out front.  

Once upon a time Doug Clark was a semi offical list daddy.  That lasted until 
Doug got pissed about something.  

As always ALL opinions will be more-or-less welcomed.  



From: Paul McCall 
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2017 12:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related 
discussions

I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the list 
directly, so here goes.

 

Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or two 
people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all the BS, 
politics, etc.  I also don’t use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to because of 
that.  

 

While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS is 
very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That’s not the point of my 
comment.

 

People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on important 
technology and business needs, IMO.  

 

It probably won’t change but it’s my 2 cents.

 

Paul

 

 

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  

pa...@pdmnet.net

www.pdmnet.com

www.floridabroadband.com

 

 

[AFMUG] List topics and verboseness of non-WISP non-business related discussions

[Paul McCall]

I shared this with Chuck McCown, and he suggested I share this with the list 
directly, so here goes.

Just FYI, in my normal business conversations with WISPs,  I get one or two 
people a week tell me they no longer look at the list because of all the BS, 
politics, etc.  I also don't use AFMUG nearly as much as I used to because of 
that.

While it costs me $$ for every email sent (I have never complained), AWS is 
very solid and reliable, so it was a great choice.  That's not the point of my 
comment.

People need to take that junk to some other venue, so we can focus on important 
technology and business needs, IMO.

It probably won't change but it's my 2 cents.

Paul


Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com