Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

[George Skorup]

Buffer mode does mean on battery. Those tolerances are probably mostly 
accurate. The BCMU "360" is really rated for 240W continuous. And then 
take off about 15W for maintaining the battery. That's exactly why I 
load them up to no more than about 220W.


When we lose utility power, I do see the voltage drop somewhere abouts 
46-47VDC. Again, the internal DC-DC converter isn't all that efficient. 
Temperature is another factor (which is why they say 3 min "boost mode").


I've got 50Ah on a couple. One site is around 165W and will run for 
almost 2 hours. Maybe a little more, I forget. About 210W on another and 
it'll run a little over an hour. Usually enough time to run out a generator.


You shouldn't be seeing 44 volts under normal operation. However, if you 
have 300W on it, and it's on battery, that really wouldn't surprise me.


On 1/30/2018 2:35 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
That makes a lot more sense... I (and Paul too, I assume) must be 
reading the spec sheet wrong. I thought buffer mode was referring to 
when it was running on battery (I assumed that because of something 
else I read further down the spec sheet), but it must mean something 
else if it actually does put out 48.0v.


Output voltage / current
– Normal Mode
24 VDC mode:
Vin – (0.4 - 0.8V); 15 A max.
48 VDC mode:
Vin – (0.4 - 0.7V); 7.5 A max.
– Buffer Mode
24 VDC mode:
22.2 – 22.9 VDC; 10 A
(15 A in boost mode for 10min)
48 VDC mode:
44.6 – 45.3 VDC; 5 A
(7.5 A in boost mode for 3min)


On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 2:27 PM, George Skorup 
mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:


The BCMU360 is definitely 12VDC on the battery side. It uses an
internal DC-DC converter. I'm using several. At 24, it puts out
24.0. And at 48, it puts out 48.0. Disconnect the power supply
from the BCMU and make sure it's putting out 48.0. The transfer
relay in the BCMU runs the load direct from the supply and
switches to battery (and DC-DC) when it senses low input voltage.
It puts out regulated 48 when on battery. But when the battery
gets low, the voltage will sag. I think it's only about 80%
efficient below 12.8VDC or so.

The pot on the BCMU is to adjust the battery float voltage. It
should be set to 13.6 or 13.8 from the factory. The trick there is
that if the battery is disconnected, it doesn't put out any
voltage. I usually connect a new battery and let it sit running
over night. Then put a meter on it the next day to see where it's
at and adjust a bit if needed. You'll also want to do this at room
temp with the remote probe disconnected.

The BCMU does have LVD. IIRC, the BATT-OK contact will open at
44-45VDC to give you an early warning. I believe the LVD cutoff is
about 42VDC (which means the batt will be at 10.5, or 1.75 volts
per cell which is a good limit for a stand-by UPS).

If you're getting 44 volts, as I said, check that the voltage
adjust pot on the supply is set correctly with no load. Or you
have too much load on it. I'm looking at a SiteMonitor right now
and it shows 47.6. The 5ch PDU reports Vin = 480. TSP180-148 +
BCMU360. Using about 100W at that site. I've got 200-ish foot runs
and the radios all run fine.

On 1/30/2018 12:49 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

If I'm looking at the same thing, that one has a built in AC/DC
power supply... it's just adjusting the output voltage of the
power supply, and there's no DC-DC converter involved, so it
makes sense to just run on battery voltage (as far as I can tell
it needs 24v or 48v batteries).

On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 12:36 PM, Paul McCall mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:

Yet, the BCM-148 says adjustable Output up to 54v.  Unless
you are on battery.  Silly

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
    *Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:35 PM


*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

Actually, the BCMU is the model that takes 12v in and
upconverts it to 48V.  It charges the battery array (in
parallel) to about 13v per batter. So, why in the world they
would design a device that would upconvert that to anything
less than 48v (without load) is just silly.  We have UBNT
EP-S16s that will not turn on radios plugged in, if it gets
anything less than 45.5 to 46 volts.

But, even on the BCM-148, (where you run 48v in series, it
seems to have the same design)  45v max output when on battery.

Pretty bizzare

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam
    Moffett
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:25 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [A

Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

[Mathew Howard]

That makes a lot more sense... I (and Paul too, I assume) must be reading
the spec sheet wrong. I thought buffer mode was referring to when it was
running on battery (I assumed that because of something else I read further
down the spec sheet), but it must mean something else if it actually does
put out 48.0v.

Output voltage / current
– Normal Mode
24 VDC mode:
Vin – (0.4 - 0.8V); 15 A max.
48 VDC mode:
Vin – (0.4 - 0.7V); 7.5 A max.
– Buffer Mode
24 VDC mode:
22.2 – 22.9 VDC; 10 A
(15 A in boost mode for 10min)
48 VDC mode:
44.6 – 45.3 VDC; 5 A
(7.5 A in boost mode for 3min)


On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 2:27 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> The BCMU360 is definitely 12VDC on the battery side. It uses an internal
> DC-DC converter. I'm using several. At 24, it puts out 24.0. And at 48, it
> puts out 48.0. Disconnect the power supply from the BCMU and make sure it's
> putting out 48.0. The transfer relay in the BCMU runs the load direct from
> the supply and switches to battery (and DC-DC) when it senses low input
> voltage. It puts out regulated 48 when on battery. But when the battery
> gets low, the voltage will sag. I think it's only about 80% efficient below
> 12.8VDC or so.
>
> The pot on the BCMU is to adjust the battery float voltage. It should be
> set to 13.6 or 13.8 from the factory. The trick there is that if the
> battery is disconnected, it doesn't put out any voltage. I usually connect
> a new battery and let it sit running over night. Then put a meter on it the
> next day to see where it's at and adjust a bit if needed. You'll also want
> to do this at room temp with the remote probe disconnected.
>
> The BCMU does have LVD. IIRC, the BATT-OK contact will open at 44-45VDC to
> give you an early warning. I believe the LVD cutoff is about 42VDC (which
> means the batt will be at 10.5, or 1.75 volts per cell which is a good
> limit for a stand-by UPS).
>
> If you're getting 44 volts, as I said, check that the voltage adjust pot
> on the supply is set correctly with no load. Or you have too much load on
> it. I'm looking at a SiteMonitor right now and it shows 47.6. The 5ch PDU
> reports Vin = 480. TSP180-148 + BCMU360. Using about 100W at that site.
> I've got 200-ish foot runs and the radios all run fine.
>
> On 1/30/2018 12:49 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> If I'm looking at the same thing, that one has a built in AC/DC power
> supply... it's just adjusting the output voltage of the power supply, and
> there's no DC-DC converter involved, so it makes sense to just run on
> battery voltage (as far as I can tell it needs 24v or 48v batteries).
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 12:36 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:
>
>> Yet, the BCM-148 says adjustable Output up to 54v.  Unless you are on
>> battery.  Silly
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:35 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM
>>
>>
>>
>> Actually, the BCMU is the model that takes 12v in and upconverts it to
>> 48V.  It charges the battery array (in parallel) to about 13v per batter.
>> So, why in the world they would design a device that would upconvert that
>> to anything less than 48v (without load) is just silly.  We have UBNT
>> EP-S16s that will not turn on radios plugged in, if it gets anything less
>> than 45.5 to 46 volts.
>>
>>
>>
>> But, even on the BCM-148, (where you run 48v in series, it seems to have
>> the same design)  45v max output when on battery.
>>
>>
>>
>> Pretty bizzare
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:25 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM
>>
>>
>>
>> When running on battery, the load gets battery voltage.  The load being
>> on battery (or charger) voltage seems to be the normal behavior for these
>> types of systems, so you'd have to really hunt for something that does it
>> differently.
>>
>>
>>
>> You can hunt for something with a regulated output, or add a DC-DC
>> converter inline.
>>
>>
>>
>> I haven't yet encountered a 48V device that didn't accept the whole range
>> from "batteries nearly dead" to "bulk charging", so I'm wondering what that
>> device is that needs >46v.
>>
>>
>>
>> .and I'm not a Traco lover.  I'm kind of disappointed with it
>> actually.  We must have bought 40 of those kits about 3 years ago, a

Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

[George Skorup]

The BCMU360 is definitely 12VDC on the battery side. It uses an internal 
DC-DC converter. I'm using several. At 24, it puts out 24.0. And at 48, 
it puts out 48.0. Disconnect the power supply from the BCMU and make 
sure it's putting out 48.0. The transfer relay in the BCMU runs the load 
direct from the supply and switches to battery (and DC-DC) when it 
senses low input voltage. It puts out regulated 48 when on battery. But 
when the battery gets low, the voltage will sag. I think it's only about 
80% efficient below 12.8VDC or so.


The pot on the BCMU is to adjust the battery float voltage. It should be 
set to 13.6 or 13.8 from the factory. The trick there is that if the 
battery is disconnected, it doesn't put out any voltage. I usually 
connect a new battery and let it sit running over night. Then put a 
meter on it the next day to see where it's at and adjust a bit if 
needed. You'll also want to do this at room temp with the remote probe 
disconnected.


The BCMU does have LVD. IIRC, the BATT-OK contact will open at 44-45VDC 
to give you an early warning. I believe the LVD cutoff is about 42VDC 
(which means the batt will be at 10.5, or 1.75 volts per cell which is a 
good limit for a stand-by UPS).


If you're getting 44 volts, as I said, check that the voltage adjust pot 
on the supply is set correctly with no load. Or you have too much load 
on it. I'm looking at a SiteMonitor right now and it shows 47.6. The 5ch 
PDU reports Vin = 480. TSP180-148 + BCMU360. Using about 100W at that 
site. I've got 200-ish foot runs and the radios all run fine.


On 1/30/2018 12:49 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
If I'm looking at the same thing, that one has a built in AC/DC power 
supply... it's just adjusting the output voltage of the power supply, 
and there's no DC-DC converter involved, so it makes sense to just run 
on battery voltage (as far as I can tell it needs 24v or 48v batteries).


On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 12:36 PM, Paul McCall <mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:


Yet, the BCM-148 says adjustable Output up to 54v.  Unless you are
on battery.  Silly

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:35 PM


    *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

Actually, the BCMU is the model that takes 12v in and upconverts
it to 48V.  It charges the battery array (in parallel) to about
13v per batter.  So, why in the world they would design a device
that would upconvert that to anything less than 48v (without load)
is just silly.  We have UBNT EP-S16s that will not turn on radios
plugged in, if it gets anything less than 45.5 to 46 volts.

But, even on the BCM-148, (where you run 48v in series, it seems
to have the same design)  45v max output when on battery.

Pretty bizzare

*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:25 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

When running on battery, the load gets battery voltage.  The load
being on battery (or charger) voltage seems to be the normal
behavior for these types of systems, so you'd have to really hunt
for something that does it differently.

You can hunt for something with a regulated output, or add a DC-DC
converter inline.

I haven't yet encountered a 48V device that didn't accept the
whole range from "batteries nearly dead" to "bulk charging", so
I'm wondering what that device is that needs >46v.

.and I'm not a Traco lover.  I'm kind of disappointed with it
actually.  We must have bought 40 of those kits about 3 years ago,
and we now have 3 faulty BCM modulesthey work except they no
longer charge batteries.  I also received a whole box of them
where the sticker indicating which pin does what on the BCM was
100% backwards. By following the sticker rather than the manual I
ended up with the temperature sensor (thermistor) connected to the
reset switch.  Didn't break anything, but they units won't turn on
that way.

At the time I needed something 48V at a higher wattage than
Meanwell's 48V options, and Traco was suggested.  I don't think
I'd go there again.

-- Original Message --

    From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>

To: "af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>>

Sent: 1/30/2018 12:59:12 PM

Subject: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

Am I missing something or are the Traco BCM series not very
usable in the real world?

Meaning, the BCMU360 can only put out 45v (for a couple
minutes, then 44v and change), when r

Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

[Mathew Howard]

If I'm looking at the same thing, that one has a built in AC/DC power
supply... it's just adjusting the output voltage of the power supply, and
there's no DC-DC converter involved, so it makes sense to just run on
battery voltage (as far as I can tell it needs 24v or 48v batteries).

On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 12:36 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> Yet, the BCM-148 says adjustable Output up to 54v.  Unless you are on
> battery.  Silly
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul McCall
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:35 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM
>
>
>
> Actually, the BCMU is the model that takes 12v in and upconverts it to
> 48V.  It charges the battery array (in parallel) to about 13v per batter.
> So, why in the world they would design a device that would upconvert that
> to anything less than 48v (without load) is just silly.  We have UBNT
> EP-S16s that will not turn on radios plugged in, if it gets anything less
> than 45.5 to 46 volts.
>
>
>
> But, even on the BCM-148, (where you run 48v in series, it seems to have
> the same design)  45v max output when on battery.
>
>
>
> Pretty bizzare
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:25 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM
>
>
>
> When running on battery, the load gets battery voltage.  The load being on
> battery (or charger) voltage seems to be the normal behavior for these
> types of systems, so you'd have to really hunt for something that does it
> differently.
>
>
>
> You can hunt for something with a regulated output, or add a DC-DC
> converter inline.
>
>
>
> I haven't yet encountered a 48V device that didn't accept the whole range
> from "batteries nearly dead" to "bulk charging", so I'm wondering what that
> device is that needs >46v.
>
>
>
> .and I'm not a Traco lover.  I'm kind of disappointed with it
> actually.  We must have bought 40 of those kits about 3 years ago, and we
> now have 3 faulty BCM modulesthey work except they no longer charge
> batteries.  I also received a whole box of them where the sticker
> indicating which pin does what on the BCM was 100% backwards. By following
> the sticker rather than the manual I ended up with the temperature sensor
> (thermistor) connected to the reset switch.  Didn't break anything, but
> they units won't turn on that way.
>
>
>
> At the time I needed something 48V at a higher wattage than Meanwell's 48V
> options, and Traco was suggested.  I don't think I'd go there again.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Paul McCall" 
>
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
> Sent: 1/30/2018 12:59:12 PM
>
> Subject: [AFMUG] Traco BCM
>
>
>
> Am I missing something or are the Traco BCM series not very usable in the
> real world?
>
>
>
> Meaning, the BCMU360 can only put out 45v (for a couple minutes, then 44v
> and change), when running on the battery.  Not very usable with some gear
> that requires about 46v to work properly.  Add in voltage drop on a long
> run and no-go.
>
>
>
> I thought maybe the straight BCM 48v series would be better, but they
> appear to have the same spec.
>
>
>
> I have to think I am missing something or who the heck would they sell
> these to? The industry standard is 48v (54v with float) so, outputting 44v
> sustained seems dumb.
>
>
>
> Or is me 😊
>
>
>
> Enlighten me please, you Traco lovers
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=658+Old+Dixie+Highway%0D+Vero+Beach,+FL+32962%0D+772&entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=658+Old+Dixie+Highway%0D+Vero+Beach,+FL+32962%0D+772&entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, okay, I see the BCM48A looks like it's just straight through battery
voltage, and it just lists 48-56v in the spec sheet.

That's normal, and what I would expect. If you want anything higher than
battery voltage, you're obviously going to need a DC-DC converter... which
I thought would be a big advantage of the BCMU360, but apparently not if
they only go up to 44v.

On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 12:36 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> If you guys are right about the BCMU, I can tell you for a fact that the
> BCM48A puts battery voltage on the load.  I have a whole stack of these
> things.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Paul McCall" 
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Sent: 1/30/2018 1:35:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM
>
> Actually, the BCMU is the model that takes 12v in and upconverts it to
> 48V.  It charges the battery array (in parallel) to about 13v per batter.
> So, why in the world they would design a device that would upconvert that
> to anything less than 48v (without load) is just silly.  We have UBNT
> EP-S16s that will not turn on radios plugged in, if it gets anything less
> than 45.5 to 46 volts.
>
>
>
> But, even on the BCM-148, (where you run 48v in series, it seems to have
> the same design)  45v max output when on battery.
>
>
>
> Pretty bizzare
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:25 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM
>
>
>
> When running on battery, the load gets battery voltage.  The load being on
> battery (or charger) voltage seems to be the normal behavior for these
> types of systems, so you'd have to really hunt for something that does it
> differently.
>
>
>
> You can hunt for something with a regulated output, or add a DC-DC
> converter inline.
>
>
>
> I haven't yet encountered a 48V device that didn't accept the whole range
> from "batteries nearly dead" to "bulk charging", so I'm wondering what that
> device is that needs >46v.
>
>
>
> .and I'm not a Traco lover.  I'm kind of disappointed with it
> actually.  We must have bought 40 of those kits about 3 years ago, and we
> now have 3 faulty BCM modulesthey work except they no longer charge
> batteries.  I also received a whole box of them where the sticker
> indicating which pin does what on the BCM was 100% backwards. By following
> the sticker rather than the manual I ended up with the temperature sensor
> (thermistor) connected to the reset switch.  Didn't break anything, but
> they units won't turn on that way.
>
>
>
> At the time I needed something 48V at a higher wattage than Meanwell's 48V
> options, and Traco was suggested.  I don't think I'd go there again.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Paul McCall" 
>
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
> Sent: 1/30/2018 12:59:12 PM
>
> Subject: [AFMUG] Traco BCM
>
>
>
> Am I missing something or are the Traco BCM series not very usable in the
> real world?
>
>
>
> Meaning, the BCMU360 can only put out 45v (for a couple minutes, then 44v
> and change), when running on the battery.  Not very usable with some gear
> that requires about 46v to work properly.  Add in voltage drop on a long
> run and no-go.
>
>
>
> I thought maybe the straight BCM 48v series would be better, but they
> appear to have the same spec.
>
>
>
> I have to think I am missing something or who the heck would they sell
> these to? The industry standard is 48v (54v with float) so, outputting 44v
> sustained seems dumb.
>
>
>
> Or is me 😊
>
>
>
> Enlighten me please, you Traco lovers
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=658+Old+Dixie+Highway%0D+Vero+Beach,+FL+32962%0D+772&entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=658+Old+Dixie+Highway%0D+Vero+Beach,+FL+32962%0D+772&entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

[Mike Hammett]

The BCMU does not put battery voltage to the load. Battery is 12v, load is 24v 
or 48v (nominal, of course). 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Adam Moffett"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 12:36:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM 


If you guys are right about the BCMU, I can tell you for a fact that the BCM48A 
puts battery voltage on the load. I have a whole stack of these things. 




-- Original Message -- 
From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: "af@afmug.com" < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: 1/30/2018 1:35:10 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM 






Actually, the BCMU is the model that takes 12v in and upconverts it to 48V. It 
charges the battery array (in parallel) to about 13v per batter. So, why in the 
world they would design a device that would upconvert that to anything less 
than 48v (without load) is just silly. We have UBNT EP-S16s that will not turn 
on radios plugged in, if it gets anything less than 45.5 to 46 volts. 

But, even on the BCM-148, (where you run 48v in series, it seems to have the 
same design) 45v max output when on battery. 

Pretty bizzare 



From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett 
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:25 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM 


When running on battery, the load gets battery voltage. The load being on 
battery (or charger) voltage seems to be the normal behavior for these types of 
systems, so you'd have to really hunt for something that does it differently. 



You can hunt for something with a regulated output, or add a DC-DC converter 
inline. 



I haven't yet encountered a 48V device that didn't accept the whole range from 
"batteries nearly dead" to "bulk charging", so I'm wondering what that device 
is that needs >46v. 



.and I'm not a Traco lover. I'm kind of disappointed with it actually. We 
must have bought 40 of those kits about 3 years ago, and we now have 3 faulty 
BCM modulesthey work except they no longer charge batteries. I also 
received a whole box of them where the sticker indicating which pin does what 
on the BCM was 100% backwards. By following the sticker rather than the manual 
I ended up with the temperature sensor (thermistor) connected to the reset 
switch. Didn't break anything, but they units won't turn on that way. 



At the time I needed something 48V at a higher wattage than Meanwell's 48V 
options, and Traco was suggested. I don't think I'd go there again. 





-- Original Message -- 

From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 

To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 

Sent: 1/30/2018 12:59:12 PM 

Subject: [AFMUG] Traco BCM 





Am I missing something or are the Traco BCM series not very usable in the real 
world? 

Meaning, the BCMU360 can only put out 45v (for a couple minutes, then 44v and 
change), when running on the battery. Not very usable with some gear that 
requires about 46v to work properly. Add in voltage drop on a long run and 
no-go. 

I thought maybe the straight BCM 48v series would be better, but they appear to 
have the same spec. 

I have to think I am missing something or who the heck would they sell these 
to? The industry standard is 48v (54v with float) so, outputting 44v sustained 
seems dumb. 

Or is me 😊 

Enlighten me please, you Traco lovers 

Paul McCall, President 
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc. 
658 Old Dixie Highway 
Vero Beach, FL 32962 
772-564-6800 
pa...@pdmnet.net 
www.pdmnet.com 
www.floridabroadband.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

[Mathew Howard]

I think we must be looking at different models. The spec sheet for the
BCMU360 says it has a jumper to select between 48v and 24v, and it connects
to a 12v battery.

On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 12:33 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> You're mistaken, or the spec sheet is misleading.
> They sell a 24V or 48V model.  They do sell 12V batteries as an accessory,
> but you use two of them for the 24V or four for the 48V.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mathew Howard" 
> To: "af" 
> Sent: 1/30/2018 1:30:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM
>
> No, it can't get battery voltage... the BCMU360 uses a 12v battery - it
> has to be upconverting to 44v, and if that's the case, why 44v instead of
> 48v?
>
> I was just looking at an ePMP 2000 AP I have sitting here, and it lists
> the minimum voltage as 42.5v, so that doesn't leave much room for voltage
> drop.
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Adam Moffett 
> wrote:
>
>> When running on battery, the load gets battery voltage.  The load being
>> on battery (or charger) voltage seems to be the normal behavior for these
>> types of systems, so you'd have to really hunt for something that does it
>> differently.
>>
>> You can hunt for something with a regulated output, or add a DC-DC
>> converter inline.
>>
>> I haven't yet encountered a 48V device that didn't accept the whole range
>> from "batteries nearly dead" to "bulk charging", so I'm wondering what that
>> device is that needs >46v.
>>
>> .and I'm not a Traco lover.  I'm kind of disappointed with it
>> actually.  We must have bought 40 of those kits about 3 years ago, and we
>> now have 3 faulty BCM modulesthey work except they no longer charge
>> batteries.  I also received a whole box of them where the sticker
>> indicating which pin does what on the BCM was 100% backwards. By following
>> the sticker rather than the manual I ended up with the temperature sensor
>> (thermistor) connected to the reset switch.  Didn't break anything, but
>> they units won't turn on that way.
>>
>> At the time I needed something 48V at a higher wattage than Meanwell's
>> 48V options, and Traco was suggested.  I don't think I'd go there again.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Paul McCall" 
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Sent: 1/30/2018 12:59:12 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Traco BCM
>>
>> Am I missing something or are the Traco BCM series not very usable in the
>> real world?
>>
>>
>>
>> Meaning, the BCMU360 can only put out 45v (for a couple minutes, then 44v
>> and change), when running on the battery.  Not very usable with some gear
>> that requires about 46v to work properly.  Add in voltage drop on a long
>> run and no-go.
>>
>>
>>
>> I thought maybe the straight BCM 48v series would be better, but they
>> appear to have the same spec.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have to think I am missing something or who the heck would they sell
>> these to? The industry standard is 48v (54v with float) so, outputting 44v
>> sustained seems dumb.
>>
>>
>>
>> Or is me 😊
>>
>>
>>
>> Enlighten me please, you Traco lovers
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul McCall, President
>>
>> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>>
>> 658 Old Dixie Highway
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=658+Old+Dixie+Highway%0D+Vero+Beach,+FL+32962%0D+772&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> Vero Beach, FL 32962
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=658+Old+Dixie+Highway%0D+Vero+Beach,+FL+32962%0D+772&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>>
>> pa...@pdmnet.net
>>
>> www.pdmnet.com
>>
>> www.floridabroadband.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

[Paul McCall]

Yet, the BCM-148 says adjustable Output up to 54v.  Unless you are on battery.  
Silly

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul McCall
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

Actually, the BCMU is the model that takes 12v in and upconverts it to 48V.  It 
charges the battery array (in parallel) to about 13v per batter.  So, why in 
the world they would design a device that would upconvert that to anything less 
than 48v (without load) is just silly.  We have UBNT EP-S16s that will not turn 
on radios plugged in, if it gets anything less than 45.5 to 46 volts.

But, even on the BCM-148, (where you run 48v in series, it seems to have the 
same design)  45v max output when on battery.

Pretty bizzare

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

When running on battery, the load gets battery voltage.  The load being on 
battery (or charger) voltage seems to be the normal behavior for these types of 
systems, so you'd have to really hunt for something that does it differently.

You can hunt for something with a regulated output, or add a DC-DC converter 
inline.

I haven't yet encountered a 48V device that didn't accept the whole range from 
"batteries nearly dead" to "bulk charging", so I'm wondering what that device 
is that needs >46v.

.and I'm not a Traco lover.  I'm kind of disappointed with it actually.  We 
must have bought 40 of those kits about 3 years ago, and we now have 3 faulty 
BCM modulesthey work except they no longer charge batteries.  I also 
received a whole box of them where the sticker indicating which pin does what 
on the BCM was 100% backwards. By following the sticker rather than the manual 
I ended up with the temperature sensor (thermistor) connected to the reset 
switch.  Didn't break anything, but they units won't turn on that way.

At the time I needed something 48V at a higher wattage than Meanwell's 48V 
options, and Traco was suggested.  I don't think I'd go there again.


-- Original Message --
From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Sent: 1/30/2018 12:59:12 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

Am I missing something or are the Traco BCM series not very usable in the real 
world?

Meaning, the BCMU360 can only put out 45v (for a couple minutes, then 44v and 
change), when running on the battery.  Not very usable with some gear that 
requires about 46v to work properly.  Add in voltage drop on a long run and 
no-go.

I thought maybe the straight BCM 48v series would be better, but they appear to 
have the same spec.

I have to think I am missing something or who the heck would they sell these 
to? The industry standard is 48v (54v with float) so, outputting 44v sustained 
seems dumb.

Or is me 😊

Enlighten me please, you Traco lovers

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net<mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>
www.pdmnet.com<http://www.pdmnet.com>
www.floridabroadband.com<http://www.floridabroadband.com>

Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

[Adam Moffett]

If you guys are right about the BCMU, I can tell you for a fact that the 
BCM48A puts battery voltage on the load.  I have a whole stack of these 
things.



-- Original Message --
From: "Paul McCall" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 1/30/2018 1:35:10 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

Actually, the BCMU is the model that takes 12v in and upconverts it to 
48V.  It charges the battery array (in parallel) to about 13v per 
batter.  So, why in the world they would design a device that would 
upconvert that to anything less than 48v (without load) is just silly.  
We have UBNT EP-S16s that will not turn on radios plugged in, if it 
gets anything less than 45.5 to 46 volts.




But, even on the BCM-148, (where you run 48v in series, it seems to 
have the same design)  45v max output when on battery.




Pretty bizzare



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:25 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM



When running on battery, the load gets battery voltage.  The load being 
on battery (or charger) voltage seems to be the normal behavior for 
these types of systems, so you'd have to really hunt for something that 
does it differently.




You can hunt for something with a regulated output, or add a DC-DC 
converter inline.




I haven't yet encountered a 48V device that didn't accept the whole 
range from "batteries nearly dead" to "bulk charging", so I'm wondering 
what that device is that needs >46v.




.and I'm not a Traco lover.  I'm kind of disappointed with it 
actually.  We must have bought 40 of those kits about 3 years ago, and 
we now have 3 faulty BCM modulesthey work except they no longer 
charge batteries.  I also received a whole box of them where the 
sticker indicating which pin does what on the BCM was 100% backwards. 
By following the sticker rather than the manual I ended up with the 
temperature sensor (thermistor) connected to the reset switch.  Didn't 
break anything, but they units won't turn on that way.




At the time I needed something 48V at a higher wattage than Meanwell's 
48V options, and Traco was suggested.  I don't think I'd go there 
again.






-- Original Message --

From: "Paul McCall" 

To: "af@afmug.com" 

Sent: 1/30/2018 12:59:12 PM

Subject: [AFMUG] Traco BCM



Am I missing something or are the Traco BCM series not very usable in 
the real world?




Meaning, the BCMU360 can only put out 45v (for a couple minutes, then 
44v and change), when running on the battery.  Not very usable with 
some gear that requires about 46v to work properly.  Add in voltage 
drop on a long run and no-go.




I thought maybe the straight BCM 48v series would be better, but they 
appear to have the same spec.




I have to think I am missing something or who the heck would they sell 
these to? The industry standard is 48v (54v with float) so, outputting 
44v sustained seems dumb.




Or is me 😊



Enlighten me please, you Traco lovers



Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800

pa...@pdmnet.net

www.pdmnet.com

www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

[Paul McCall]

Actually, the BCMU is the model that takes 12v in and upconverts it to 48V.  It 
charges the battery array (in parallel) to about 13v per batter.  So, why in 
the world they would design a device that would upconvert that to anything less 
than 48v (without load) is just silly.  We have UBNT EP-S16s that will not turn 
on radios plugged in, if it gets anything less than 45.5 to 46 volts.

But, even on the BCM-148, (where you run 48v in series, it seems to have the 
same design)  45v max output when on battery.

Pretty bizzare

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

When running on battery, the load gets battery voltage.  The load being on 
battery (or charger) voltage seems to be the normal behavior for these types of 
systems, so you'd have to really hunt for something that does it differently.

You can hunt for something with a regulated output, or add a DC-DC converter 
inline.

I haven't yet encountered a 48V device that didn't accept the whole range from 
"batteries nearly dead" to "bulk charging", so I'm wondering what that device 
is that needs >46v.

.and I'm not a Traco lover.  I'm kind of disappointed with it actually.  We 
must have bought 40 of those kits about 3 years ago, and we now have 3 faulty 
BCM modulesthey work except they no longer charge batteries.  I also 
received a whole box of them where the sticker indicating which pin does what 
on the BCM was 100% backwards. By following the sticker rather than the manual 
I ended up with the temperature sensor (thermistor) connected to the reset 
switch.  Didn't break anything, but they units won't turn on that way.

At the time I needed something 48V at a higher wattage than Meanwell's 48V 
options, and Traco was suggested.  I don't think I'd go there again.


-- Original Message --
From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Sent: 1/30/2018 12:59:12 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

Am I missing something or are the Traco BCM series not very usable in the real 
world?

Meaning, the BCMU360 can only put out 45v (for a couple minutes, then 44v and 
change), when running on the battery.  Not very usable with some gear that 
requires about 46v to work properly.  Add in voltage drop on a long run and 
no-go.

I thought maybe the straight BCM 48v series would be better, but they appear to 
have the same spec.

I have to think I am missing something or who the heck would they sell these 
to? The industry standard is 48v (54v with float) so, outputting 44v sustained 
seems dumb.

Or is me 😊

Enlighten me please, you Traco lovers

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net<mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>
www.pdmnet.com<http://www.pdmnet.com>
www.floridabroadband.com<http://www.floridabroadband.com>

Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

[Adam Moffett]

You're mistaken, or the spec sheet is misleading.
They sell a 24V or 48V model.  They do sell 12V batteries as an 
accessory, but you use two of them for the 24V or four for the 48V.



-- Original Message --
From: "Mathew Howard" 
To: "af" 
Sent: 1/30/2018 1:30:53 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

No, it can't get battery voltage... the BCMU360 uses a 12v battery - it 
has to be upconverting to 44v, and if that's the case, why 44v instead 
of 48v?


I was just looking at an ePMP 2000 AP I have sitting here, and it lists 
the minimum voltage as 42.5v, so that doesn't leave much room for 
voltage drop.


On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:
When running on battery, the load gets battery voltage.  The load 
being on battery (or charger) voltage seems to be the normal behavior 
for these types of systems, so you'd have to really hunt for something 
that does it differently.


You can hunt for something with a regulated output, or add a DC-DC 
converter inline.


I haven't yet encountered a 48V device that didn't accept the whole 
range from "batteries nearly dead" to "bulk charging", so I'm 
wondering what that device is that needs >46v.


.and I'm not a Traco lover.  I'm kind of disappointed with it 
actually.  We must have bought 40 of those kits about 3 years ago, and 
we now have 3 faulty BCM modulesthey work except they no longer 
charge batteries.  I also received a whole box of them where the 
sticker indicating which pin does what on the BCM was 100% backwards. 
By following the sticker rather than the manual I ended up with the 
temperature sensor (thermistor) connected to the reset switch.  Didn't 
break anything, but they units won't turn on that way.


At the time I needed something 48V at a higher wattage than Meanwell's 
48V options, and Traco was suggested.  I don't think I'd go there 
again.



-- Original Message --
From: "Paul McCall" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 1/30/2018 12:59:12 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

Am I missing something or are the Traco BCM series not very usable in 
the real world?




Meaning, the BCMU360 can only put out 45v (for a couple minutes, then 
44v and change), when running on the battery.  Not very usable with 
some gear that requires about 46v to work properly.  Add in voltage 
drop on a long run and no-go.




I thought maybe the straight BCM 48v series would be better, but they 
appear to have the same spec.




I have to think I am missing something or who the heck would they 
sell these to? The industry standard is 48v (54v with float) so, 
outputting 44v sustained seems dumb.




Or is me 😊



Enlighten me please, you Traco lovers



Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway 
<https://maps.google.com/?q=658+Old+Dixie+Highway%0D+Vero+Beach,+FL+32962%0D+772&entry=gmail&source=g>


Vero Beach, FL 32962 
<https://maps.google.com/?q=658+Old+Dixie+Highway%0D+Vero+Beach,+FL+32962%0D+772&entry=gmail&source=g>


772-564-6800 

pa...@pdmnet.net

www.pdmnet.com

www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

[Mathew Howard]

No, it can't get battery voltage... the BCMU360 uses a 12v battery - it has
to be upconverting to 44v, and if that's the case, why 44v instead of 48v?

I was just looking at an ePMP 2000 AP I have sitting here, and it lists the
minimum voltage as 42.5v, so that doesn't leave much room for voltage drop.

On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> When running on battery, the load gets battery voltage.  The load being on
> battery (or charger) voltage seems to be the normal behavior for these
> types of systems, so you'd have to really hunt for something that does it
> differently.
>
> You can hunt for something with a regulated output, or add a DC-DC
> converter inline.
>
> I haven't yet encountered a 48V device that didn't accept the whole range
> from "batteries nearly dead" to "bulk charging", so I'm wondering what that
> device is that needs >46v.
>
> .and I'm not a Traco lover.  I'm kind of disappointed with it
> actually.  We must have bought 40 of those kits about 3 years ago, and we
> now have 3 faulty BCM modulesthey work except they no longer charge
> batteries.  I also received a whole box of them where the sticker
> indicating which pin does what on the BCM was 100% backwards. By following
> the sticker rather than the manual I ended up with the temperature sensor
> (thermistor) connected to the reset switch.  Didn't break anything, but
> they units won't turn on that way.
>
> At the time I needed something 48V at a higher wattage than Meanwell's 48V
> options, and Traco was suggested.  I don't think I'd go there again.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Paul McCall" 
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Sent: 1/30/2018 12:59:12 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Traco BCM
>
> Am I missing something or are the Traco BCM series not very usable in the
> real world?
>
>
>
> Meaning, the BCMU360 can only put out 45v (for a couple minutes, then 44v
> and change), when running on the battery.  Not very usable with some gear
> that requires about 46v to work properly.  Add in voltage drop on a long
> run and no-go.
>
>
>
> I thought maybe the straight BCM 48v series would be better, but they
> appear to have the same spec.
>
>
>
> I have to think I am missing something or who the heck would they sell
> these to? The industry standard is 48v (54v with float) so, outputting 44v
> sustained seems dumb.
>
>
>
> Or is me 😊
>
>
>
> Enlighten me please, you Traco lovers
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=658+Old+Dixie+Highway%0D+Vero+Beach,+FL+32962%0D+772&entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=658+Old+Dixie+Highway%0D+Vero+Beach,+FL+32962%0D+772&entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

[Adam Moffett]

When running on battery, the load gets battery voltage.  The load being 
on battery (or charger) voltage seems to be the normal behavior for 
these types of systems, so you'd have to really hunt for something that 
does it differently.


You can hunt for something with a regulated output, or add a DC-DC 
converter inline.


I haven't yet encountered a 48V device that didn't accept the whole 
range from "batteries nearly dead" to "bulk charging", so I'm wondering 
what that device is that needs >46v.


.and I'm not a Traco lover.  I'm kind of disappointed with it 
actually.  We must have bought 40 of those kits about 3 years ago, and 
we now have 3 faulty BCM modulesthey work except they no longer 
charge batteries.  I also received a whole box of them where the sticker 
indicating which pin does what on the BCM was 100% backwards. By 
following the sticker rather than the manual I ended up with the 
temperature sensor (thermistor) connected to the reset switch.  Didn't 
break anything, but they units won't turn on that way.


At the time I needed something 48V at a higher wattage than Meanwell's 
48V options, and Traco was suggested.  I don't think I'd go there again.



-- Original Message --
From: "Paul McCall" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 1/30/2018 12:59:12 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

Am I missing something or are the Traco BCM series not very usable in 
the real world?




Meaning, the BCMU360 can only put out 45v (for a couple minutes, then 
44v and change), when running on the battery.  Not very usable with 
some gear that requires about 46v to work properly.  Add in voltage 
drop on a long run and no-go.




I thought maybe the straight BCM 48v series would be better, but they 
appear to have the same spec.




I have to think I am missing something or who the heck would they sell 
these to? The industry standard is 48v (54v with float) so, outputting 
44v sustained seems dumb.




Or is me 😊



Enlighten me please, you Traco lovers



Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800

pa...@pdmnet.net

www.pdmnet.com

www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Traco BCM

[Mathew Howard]

I haven't ever used one, but that certainly does seem like a problem to me.
It'll probably run most stuff fine at that voltage, but considering PoE
voltage drop, that's cutting it way to close for my liking. I've considered
using these, but I never looked at the specs that close before.

On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 11:59 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> Am I missing something or are the Traco BCM series not very usable in the
> real world?
>
>
>
> Meaning, the BCMU360 can only put out 45v (for a couple minutes, then 44v
> and change), when running on the battery.  Not very usable with some gear
> that requires about 46v to work properly.  Add in voltage drop on a long
> run and no-go.
>
>
>
> I thought maybe the straight BCM 48v series would be better, but they
> appear to have the same spec.
>
>
>
> I have to think I am missing something or who the heck would they sell
> these to? The industry standard is 48v (54v with float) so, outputting 44v
> sustained seems dumb.
>
>
>
> Or is me 😊
>
>
>
> Enlighten me please, you Traco lovers
>
>
>
> Paul McCall, President
>
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
>
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
> 
>
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
> 
>
> 772-564-6800 <(772)%20564-6800>
>
> pa...@pdmnet.net
>
> www.pdmnet.com
>
> www.floridabroadband.com
>
>
>
>
>

[AFMUG] Traco BCM

[Paul McCall]

Am I missing something or are the Traco BCM series not very usable in the real 
world?

Meaning, the BCMU360 can only put out 45v (for a couple minutes, then 44v and 
change), when running on the battery.  Not very usable with some gear that 
requires about 46v to work properly.  Add in voltage drop on a long run and 
no-go.

I thought maybe the straight BCM 48v series would be better, but they appear to 
have the same spec.

I have to think I am missing something or who the heck would they sell these 
to? The industry standard is 48v (54v with float) so, outputting 44v sustained 
seems dumb.

Or is me 😊

Enlighten me please, you Traco lovers

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com