subject:"Re\: \[AFMUG\] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig"

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-13 Thread Cassidy B. Larson

Get some CWDM passive splitters on both sides:

https://www.fs.com/c/cwdm-mux-demux-177

Then color matching CWDM 10G SFP+ optics:

http://www.fs.com/c/cwdm-sfp-plus-65?70-80km=286

Looks like $600/ea end for CWDM 10G SFP+ and 8 channel CWDM for $330/ea end.

$1200 + $660 + shipping and you can add another 7x10G links later.

> On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:45 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
> 
> What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
> at 10gbit?
> 
> Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-13 Thread Colin Stanners

I haven't tried it yet, but as an example of product type:
http://www.fs.com/products/11592.html
http://www.fs.com/products/35926.html

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 1:45 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark
> fiber at 10gbit?
>
> Paul, PDMNet
>

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Cassidy B. Larson

Bah it’s late.. 80 miles != 80 km..


> On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:55 AM, Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:
> 
> Get some CWDM passive splitters on both sides:
> 
> https://www.fs.com/c/cwdm-mux-demux-177 
> 
> 
> Then color matching CWDM 10G SFP+ optics:
> 
> http://www.fs.com/c/cwdm-sfp-plus-65?70-80km=286 
> 
> 
> Looks like $600/ea end for CWDM 10G SFP+ and 8 channel CWDM for $330/ea end.
> 
> $1200 + $660 + shipping and you can add another 7x10G links later.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:45 AM, Paul McCall > > wrote:
>> 
>> What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark 
>> fiber at 10gbit?
>> 
>> Paul, PDMNet
>

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread fiberrun

Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 
From: "Paul McCall" 
> What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
> at 10gbit?
  You can buy 10G XFPs rated at 75 miles (120 km). However, this won't do you 
much good if you are outside the optical budget or the chromatic dispersion 
limits. To know what your options are you really need to characterize your 
fiber first. 

Furthermore your design will depend on your upgrade roadmap. Will you only ever 
use one 10G wavelength or will there be more down the line?

If you'll need multiple 10G wavelengths then you are looking at an amplified 
DWDM setup with chromatic dispersion compensation. 

If you are ok with a single 10G only then you can look at trying that 75 mile 
XFP (perhaps with a small amp and some chromatic compensation) or even 
aggregating 1G waves using 200 km CWDM SFPs. 

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Faisal Imtiaz

Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions. 

http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Paul McCall" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

> What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
> at
> 10gbit?

> Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Trey Scarborough

for 80 miles or ~120km you will need one of two things either a regen 
1/2 or really anywhere leaving less than 80k between spans or an 
amplification system.


If you have decent fiber you can probably get away with just a pair of 
edfa preamps this will bring up your signal to a level the sfp/xfp will 
be able receive. As far as Dispersion compensations for one channel at 
120k you will probably not have to worry about it with 80k optics, it 
may  be an issue but easy to fix with a couple of 100k ODCs. I would 
recommend just in case to use a DWDM filter for future proofing it in 
case you want to turn up another channel or if you want redundant 
connections. SFPs are the most common failures. I would look at no more 
than an 8 channel anything else and you would add too much loss and 
would require a booster amp as well.  I have ran this type of setup up 
to 170k with decent results. Anything more and you get into needing much 
more complicated system.


You can go with some FS hardware or some other good vendors that make 
transponders with integrated amps that would work  are

packetlight "part of the RAD group"
Ekinops you could probably do just use a pair of transponders


Some things you will want to is a full FOC data from whomever you are 
purchasing the fiber from. If it is regular rates you are paying it is 
reasonable to request this from them. If you are getting a deal they 
might not be willing to due to costs. At the minimum you will need OTDRS 
and ORL numbers. Don't accept the fiber if it has any bad splices or 
high loss fiber. a Full FOC will also give you your total dispersion in 
pico seconds you can use this to determine if you need compensation.


If you have this information hit me up off list and I can help you out 
with what you need.



On 4/14/2017 6:50 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:

Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017
From: "Paul McCall"

What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit?

   You can buy 10G XFPs rated at 75 miles (120 km). However, this won't do you 
much good if you are outside the optical budget or the chromatic dispersion 
limits. To know what your options are you really need to characterize your 
fiber first.

Furthermore your design will depend on your upgrade roadmap. Will you only ever 
use one 10G wavelength or will there be more down the line?

If you'll need multiple 10G wavelengths then you are looking at an amplified 
DWDM setup with chromatic dispersion compensation.

If you are ok with a single 10G only then you can look at trying that 75 mile 
XFP (perhaps with a small amp and some chromatic compensation) or even 
aggregating 1G waves using 200 km CWDM SFPs.

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Mike Hammett

http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul McCall"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:45:54 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 


What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit? 

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Mike Hammett

Dang it, I'm not the first to the dance... 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Faisal Imtiaz"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 7:35:07 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 



Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions. 


http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100 




Regards. 


Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

- Original Message -



From: "Paul McCall"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 







What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit? 

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Paul McCall

What kinda of switch / router would be required to plug these SFPs into, in 
this example?

Paul

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions.

http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net<mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net>

From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit?

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Sterling Jacobson

Any I think since it’s the MUX and beyond that does all the special hard work.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul McCall
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 10:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

What kinda of switch / router would be required to plug these SFPs into, in 
this example?

Paul

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions.

http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net<mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net>

From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit?

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Paul McCall

This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), but 
if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than 
sufficient.

Paul

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions.

http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net<mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net>

From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit?

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Faisal Imtiaz

If you need someone to do the actual design for you, hit me off list, I will be 
more than happy to do it. 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Paul McCall" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 12:16:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

> This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), but
> if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than
> sufficient.

> Paul

> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

> Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions.

> http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100

> Regards.

> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>> From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net >
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
>> What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark 
>> fiber at
>> 10gbit?

>> Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Mike Hammett

Anything with SFP+ ports. There's a million different ones. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul McCall"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:02:04 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 



What kinda of switch / router would be required to plug these SFPs into, in 
this example? 

Paul 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 



Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions. 



http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100 





Regards. 



Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 


- Original Message -




From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 







What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit? 

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Mike Hammett

They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 
channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul McCall"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 



This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), but 
if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than 
sufficient. 

Paul 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 



Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions. 



http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100 





Regards. 



Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 


- Original Message -




From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 







What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit? 

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Paul McCall

Wow, I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near 
future.  But, I guess ya never know

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 
channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), but 
if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than 
sufficient.

Paul

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions.

http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net<mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net>

From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit?

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Mike Hammett

You have a lot of options, then. You could sell 10G transport back to wherever 
it is you're going. (Miami?) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul McCall"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:07:34 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 



Wow, I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near 
future. But, I guess ya never know 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 


They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 
channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 
This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), but 
if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than 
sufficient. 

Paul 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 



Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions. 



http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100 





Regards. 



Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 







From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 







What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit? 

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Cassidy B. Larson

Not that you wont need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a 
channel to them?


> On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:
> 
> Wow, I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near 
> future.  But, I guess ya never know
>   <>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On 
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
> 
> They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 
> channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> 
> 
>  <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
> 
> This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), 
> but if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than 
> sufficient.
> 
> Paul
> 
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On 
> Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
> 
> Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions.
> 
> http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100 
> <http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100>
> 
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> 
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 
> <mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net>
> 
> From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
> What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
> at 10gbit?
> 
> Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Paul McCall

I didn’t think of that but yes  that makes sense

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Not that you wont need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a 
channel to them?

On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Paul McCall 
mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:

Wow, I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near 
future.  But, I guess ya never know

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 
channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), but 
if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than 
sufficient.

Paul

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions.

http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net<mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net>

From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit?

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Mike Hammett

Cheaper to use a mux now than to figure out how to transition 10G of traffic 
elsewhere later when you need to take the link down to put a mux in? :-p 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul McCall"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:20:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 



I didn’t think of that but yes that makes sense 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:19 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 

Not that you wont need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a 
channel to them? 









On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Paul McCall < pa...@pdmnet.net > wrote: 



Wow, I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near 
future. But, I guess ya never know 





From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 



They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 
channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 

This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), but 
if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than 
sufficient. 



Paul 





From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 





Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions. 





http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100 








Regards. 





Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 









From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 








What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit? 

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Paul McCall

Is  running an 8 channel mux any more reliable than a 40 channel mux on a link 
of that distance?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Cheaper to use a mux now than to figure out how to transition 10G of traffic 
elsewhere later when you need to take the link down to put a mux in?  :-p

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:20:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
I didn’t think of that but yes  that makes sense

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Not that you wont need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a 
channel to them?

On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Paul McCall 
mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:

Wow, I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near 
future.  But, I guess ya never know

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 
channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
________________
From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), but 
if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than 
sufficient.

Paul

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions.

http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net<mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net>

From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit?

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Mike Hammett

Not really. A mux is a mux. Just pay attention to insertion loss numbers to 
make sure you still have the optical budget you need. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul McCall"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:29:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 



Is running an 8 channel mux any more reliable than a 40 channel mux on a link 
of that distance? 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:22 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 


Cheaper to use a mux now than to figure out how to transition 10G of traffic 
elsewhere later when you need to take the link down to put a mux in? :-p 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:20:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 
I didn’t think of that but yes that makes sense 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:19 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 

Not that you wont need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a 
channel to them? 







On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Paul McCall < pa...@pdmnet.net > wrote: 



Wow, I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near 
future. But, I guess ya never know 





From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 



They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 
channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 

This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), but 
if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than 
sufficient. 



Paul 





From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 





Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions. 





http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100 








Regards. 





Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 









From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 








What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit? 

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Paul McCall

Does using a mux require a “better” optical budget?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Not really. A mux is a mux. Just pay attention to insertion loss numbers to 
make sure you still have the optical budget you need.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:29:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
Is  running an 8 channel mux any more reliable than a 40 channel mux on a link 
of that distance?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Cheaper to use a mux now than to figure out how to transition 10G of traffic 
elsewhere later when you need to take the link down to put a mux in?  :-p



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
____________
From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:20:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
I didn’t think of that but yes  that makes sense

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Not that you wont need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a 
channel to them?


On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Paul McCall 
mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:

Wow, I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near 
future.  But, I guess ya never know

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 
channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https:/

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread PE R

Paul - 
Will send you some information on an option that may fit your requirements.
Parker

  From: Paul McCall 
 To: "af@afmug.com"  
 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:45 AM
 Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

 #yiv9330386729 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}What equipment can we use 
(cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber at 10gbit?

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread PE R

A mux is simply multiplexing the signals, bandwidth, etc.
Sending some information to you on this and our team can provide more 
information if you're interested.
  From: Paul McCall 
 To: "af@afmug.com"  
 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:31 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

 Does using a mux 
require a “better” optical budget?    From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]On 
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig    Not really. A mux 
is a mux. Just pay attention to insertion loss numbers to make sure you still 
have the optical budget you need. 

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

 From:"Paul McCall" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:29:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig Is  running an 8 
channel mux any more reliable than a 40 channel mux on a link of that distance? 
   From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig   Cheaper to use a mux 
now than to figure out how to transition 10G of traffic elsewhere later when 
you need to take the link down to put a mux in?  :-p   

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

 From:"Paul McCall" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:20:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig I didn’t think of that 
but yes  that makes sense   From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]On Behalf Of 
Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig   Not that you wont 
need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a channel to them?     
On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:   Wow, I 
can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near future.  
But, I guess ya never know   From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig   They do have smaller 
ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 channel ones are about 
$1500 for the pair, IIRC. 

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

 From: "Paul McCall" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig This looks like it 
supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), but if that is part of 
the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than sufficient.   Paul   From: 
Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig   Use this tool to 
help you understand and design LH fiber solutions.   
http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100    
 Regards.   Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net   
From: "Paul McCall" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 

What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit?

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Chuck McCown

Passive optical muxing is just a cascade of splitters with the 3dB per split.  
So 8:1 passive mux is 2*2*2 so 9 dB theoretically, 11 or so in real life.  

From: Paul McCall 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 4:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Does using a mux require a “better” optical budget?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Not really. A mux is a mux. Just pay attention to insertion loss numbers to 
make sure you still have the optical budget you need.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: "Paul McCall" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:29:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Is  running an 8 channel mux any more reliable than a 40 channel mux on a link 
of that distance?  

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Cheaper to use a mux now than to figure out how to transition 10G of traffic 
elsewhere later when you need to take the link down to put a mux in?  :-p

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: "Paul McCall" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:20:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

I didn’t think of that but yes  that makes sense

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Not that you wont need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a 
channel to them?

  On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

  Wow, I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near 
future.  But, I guess ya never know

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

  They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 
channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC.

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "Paul McCall" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

  This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), 
but if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than 
sufficient.

  Paul

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
  Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

  Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions.

  http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100

  Regards.

  Faisal Imtiaz
  Snappy Internet & Telecom
  7266 SW 48 Street
  Miami, FL 33155
  Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

  Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

--

From: "Paul McCall" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark 
fiber at 10gbit?

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Paul McCall

So, to me that sounds like I do need to add (subtract) that from the link 
budget ??

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 7:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Passive optical muxing is just a cascade of splitters with the 3dB per split.  
So 8:1 passive mux is 2*2*2 so 9 dB theoretically, 11 or so in real life.

From: Paul McCall
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 4:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Does using a mux require a “better” optical budget?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Not really. A mux is a mux. Just pay attention to insertion loss numbers to 
make sure you still have the optical budget you need.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:29:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
Is  running an 8 channel mux any more reliable than a 40 channel mux on a link 
of that distance?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Cheaper to use a mux now than to figure out how to transition 10G of traffic 
elsewhere later when you need to take the link down to put a mux in?  :-p

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
________________
From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:20:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
I didn’t think of that but yes  that makes sense

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Not that you wont need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a 
channel to them?

On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Paul McCall 
mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:

Wow, I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near 
future.  But, I guess ya never know

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 
channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Chuck McCown

Yes.

From: Paul McCall 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

So, to me that sounds like I do need to add (subtract) that from the link 
budget ?? 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 7:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Passive optical muxing is just a cascade of splitters with the 3dB per split.  
So 8:1 passive mux is 2*2*2 so 9 dB theoretically, 11 or so in real life.  

From: Paul McCall 

Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 4:31 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Does using a mux require a “better” optical budget?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Not really. A mux is a mux. Just pay attention to insertion loss numbers to 
make sure you still have the optical budget you need.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: "Paul McCall" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:29:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Is  running an 8 channel mux any more reliable than a 40 channel mux on a link 
of that distance?  

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Cheaper to use a mux now than to figure out how to transition 10G of traffic 
elsewhere later when you need to take the link down to put a mux in?  :-p

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: "Paul McCall" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:20:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

I didn’t think of that but yes  that makes sense

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Not that you wont need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a 
channel to them?

  On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

  Wow, I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near 
future.  But, I guess ya never know

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

  They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 
channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC.

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "Paul McCall" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

  This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), 
but if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than 
sufficient.

  Paul

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
  Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

  Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions.

  http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100

  Regards.

  Faisal Imtiaz
  Snappy Internet & Telecom
  7266 SW 48 Street
  Miami, FL 33155
  Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

  Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

--

From: "Paul McCall" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark 
fiber at 10gbit?

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Paul McCall

In that case, an 80mile path which is pushing the envelope seemingly would have 
a lot of trouble with a 40 channel mux.

That was the example (200km actually – 40 channel) that Mike posted from fs.com

Paul

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 7:37 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Yes.

From: Paul McCall
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

So, to me that sounds like I do need to add (subtract) that from the link 
budget ??

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 7:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Passive optical muxing is just a cascade of splitters with the 3dB per split.  
So 8:1 passive mux is 2*2*2 so 9 dB theoretically, 11 or so in real life.

From: Paul McCall
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 4:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Does using a mux require a “better” optical budget?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Not really. A mux is a mux. Just pay attention to insertion loss numbers to 
make sure you still have the optical budget you need.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:29:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
Is  running an 8 channel mux any more reliable than a 40 channel mux on a link 
of that distance?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Cheaper to use a mux now than to figure out how to transition 10G of traffic 
elsewhere later when you need to take the link down to put a mux in?  :-p



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
____________
From: "Paul McCall" mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:20:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig
I didn’t think of that but yes  that makes sense

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Not that you wont need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a 
channel to them?


On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM,

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Faisal Imtiaz

I hate to say this .the match on mux insertion loss does not add up in this 
manner... 
(I think you are thinking of GPON Muxes... not the same as CWDM or DWDM) 

Always best to Check the MFG Specs 

(I have 8 channel CWDM muxes which have a low insertion loss (less than 2db on 
each lambda ! ) 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 7:05:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

> Passive optical muxing is just a cascade of splitters with the 3dB per split. 
> So
> 8:1 passive mux is 2*2*2 so 9 dB theoretically, 11 or so in real life.
> From: Paul McCall
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 4:31 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

> Does using a mux require a “better” optical budget?

> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:31 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

> Not really. A mux is a mux. Just pay attention to insertion loss numbers to 
> make
> sure you still have the optical budget you need.

> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions

> Midwest Internet Exchange

> The Brothers WISP

> From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net >
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:29:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

> Is running an 8 channel mux any more reliable than a 40 channel mux on a link 
> of
> that distance?

> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:22 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

> Cheaper to use a mux now than to figure out how to transition 10G of traffic
> elsewhere later when you need to take the link down to put a mux in? :-p

> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions

> Midwest Internet Exchange

> The Brothers WISP

> From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net >
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:20:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

> I didn’t think of that but yes that makes sense

> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:19 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

> Not that you wont need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a
> channel to them?

>> On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Paul McCall < pa...@pdmnet.net > wrote:

>> Wow, I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near
>> future. But, I guess ya never know

>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

>> They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18
>> channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC.

>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

>> Midwest Internet Exchange

>> The Brothers WISP

>> From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net >
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

>> This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), 
>> but
>> if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than
>> sufficient.

>> Paul

>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

>> Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions.

>> http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100

>> Regards.

>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> Miami, FL 33155
>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>>> From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net >
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

>>> What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark 
>>> fiber at
>>> 10gbit?

>>> Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Faisal Imtiaz

sorry... meant to say the 'math' not 'match' 

dang... fast finger freddy ! 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Faisal Imtiaz" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 7:41:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

> I hate to say this .the match on mux insertion loss does not add up in 
> this
> manner...
> (I think you are thinking of GPON Muxes... not the same as CWDM or DWDM)

> Always best to Check the MFG Specs

> (I have 8 channel CWDM muxes which have a low insertion loss (less than 2db on
> each lambda ! )

> :)

> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 7:05:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

>> Passive optical muxing is just a cascade of splitters with the 3dB per 
>> split. So
>> 8:1 passive mux is 2*2*2 so 9 dB theoretically, 11 or so in real life.
>> From: Paul McCall
>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 4:31 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

>> Does using a mux require a “better” optical budget?

>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:31 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

>> Not really. A mux is a mux. Just pay attention to insertion loss numbers to 
>> make
>> sure you still have the optical budget you need.

>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

>> Midwest Internet Exchange

>> The Brothers WISP

>> From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net >
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:29:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

>> Is running an 8 channel mux any more reliable than a 40 channel mux on a 
>> link of
>> that distance?

>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:22 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

>> Cheaper to use a mux now than to figure out how to transition 10G of traffic
>> elsewhere later when you need to take the link down to put a mux in? :-p

>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

>> Midwest Internet Exchange

>> The Brothers WISP

>> From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net >
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:20:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

>> I didn’t think of that but yes that makes sense

>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:19 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

>> Not that you wont need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a
>> channel to them?

>>> On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Paul McCall < pa...@pdmnet.net > wrote:

>>> Wow, I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near
>>> future. But, I guess ya never know

>>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

>>> They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18
>>> channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC.

>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

>>> Midwest Internet Exchange

>>> The Brothers WISP

>>> From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net >
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

>>> This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), 
>>> but
>>> if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than
>>> sufficient.

>>> Paul

>>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

>>> Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions.

>>> http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100

>>> Regards.

>>> Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>>> Miami, FL 33155
>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>>>> From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net >
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM
>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

>>>> What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark 
>>>> fiber at
>>>> 10gbit?

>>>> Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread PE R

There's a bit more to it than that.  )

  From: Chuck McCown 
 To: af@afmug.com 
 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

#yiv6023612781 v\3a* {}#yiv6023612781 o\3a* {}#yiv6023612781 w\3a* 
{}#yiv6023612781 .yiv6023612781shape {}#yiv6023612781 #yiv6023612781 -- 
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#yiv6023612781 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 
4;}#yiv6023612781 #yiv6023612781 p.yiv6023612781MsoNormal, #yiv6023612781 
li.yiv6023612781MsoNormal, #yiv6023612781 div.yiv6023612781MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6023612781 a:link, 
#yiv6023612781 span.yiv6023612781MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6023612781 a:visited, #yiv6023612781 
span.yiv6023612781MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
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p.yiv6023612781msonormal0, #yiv6023612781 li.yiv6023612781msonormal0, 
#yiv6023612781 div.yiv6023612781msonormal0 
{margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv6023612781 
span.yiv6023612781apple-style-span {}#yiv6023612781 
span.yiv6023612781apple-converted-space {}#yiv6023612781 
span.yiv6023612781EmailStyle21 {color:windowtext;}#yiv6023612781 
span.yiv6023612781EmailStyle22 {color:windowtext;}#yiv6023612781 
span.yiv6023612781EmailStyle24 {color:windowtext;}#yiv6023612781 
.yiv6023612781MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv6023612781 
{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv6023612781 div.yiv6023612781WordSection1 
{}#yiv6023612781 Passive optical muxing is just a cascade of splitters with the 
3dB per split.  So 8:1 passive mux is 2*2*2 so 9 dB theoretically, 11 or so in 
real life.   From: Paul McCall Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 4:31 PMTo: 
af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig Does 
using a mux require a “better” optical budget?   From: Af 
[mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig   Not really. A mux is 
a mux. Just pay attention to insertion loss numbers to make sure you still have 
the optical budget you need. 

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

 From: "Paul McCall" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:29:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig Is  running an 8 
channel mux any more reliable than a 40 channel mux on a link of that distance? 
    From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig   Cheaper to use a mux 
now than to figure out how to transition 10G of traffic elsewhere later when 
you need to take the link down to put a mux in?  :-p   

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

 From: "Paul McCall" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:20:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig I didn’t think of that 
but yes  that makes sense   From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig   Not that you wont 
need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a channel to them?     
  On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:     Wow, 
I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near future.  
But, I guess ya never know   From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On 
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig     They do have 
smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 channel ones are 
about $1500 for the pair, IIRC.   

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

 From: "Paul McCall" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig  This looks like it 
supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), but if that is part of 
the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than sufficient.     Paul   
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig   Use this 
tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions.       
http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100    
       Regards.       Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
72

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Eric Kuhnke

80 miles of dark with no regen or hut with electricity for amplification in
the middle?  Don't even think about trying it (even with special "160km"
optics) until you have high quality OTDR shots in hand, shot from each
direction on each strand.

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 11:45 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark
> fiber at 10gbit?
>
> Paul, PDMNet
>

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Mike Hammett

It'll use a dB or 2 more, but nothing drastic. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Paul McCall"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:31:41 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 



Does using a mux require a “better” optical budget? 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:31 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 


Not really. A mux is a mux. Just pay attention to insertion loss numbers to 
make sure you still have the optical budget you need. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:29:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 
Is running an 8 channel mux any more reliable than a 40 channel mux on a link 
of that distance? 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:22 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 


Cheaper to use a mux now than to figure out how to transition 10G of traffic 
elsewhere later when you need to take the link down to put a mux in? :-p 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:20:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 
I didn’t think of that but yes that makes sense 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:19 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 

Not that you wont need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a 
channel to them? 







On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Paul McCall < pa...@pdmnet.net > wrote: 



Wow, I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near 
future. But, I guess ya never know 





From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 



They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 
channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 

This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), but 
if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than 
sufficient. 



Paul 





From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 





Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions. 





http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100 








Regards. 





Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 









From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 








What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit? 

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Mike Hammett

This 40 channel mux: http://www.fs.com/products/33485.html has under 4.5 dB of 
insertion loss. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:05:25 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 




Passive optical muxing is just a cascade of splitters with the 3dB per split. 
So 8:1 passive mux is 2*2*2 so 9 dB theoretically, 11 or so in real life. 




From: Paul McCall 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 4:31 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 



Does using a mux require a “better” optical budget? 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:31 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 


Not really. A mux is a mux. Just pay attention to insertion loss numbers to 
make sure you still have the optical budget you need. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:29:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 
Is running an 8 channel mux any more reliable than a 40 channel mux on a link 
of that distance? 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:22 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 


Cheaper to use a mux now than to figure out how to transition 10G of traffic 
elsewhere later when you need to take the link down to put a mux in? :-p 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:20:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 
I didn’t think of that but yes that makes sense 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:19 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 

Not that you wont need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a 
channel to them? 







On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Paul McCall < pa...@pdmnet.net > wrote: 



Wow, I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near 
future. But, I guess ya never know 





From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 



They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 
channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 

This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), but 
if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than 
sufficient. 



Paul 





From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 





Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions. 





http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100 








Regards. 





Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 









From: "Paul McCall" < pa...@pdmnet.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig 








What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit? 

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Chuck McCown

I am talking about a LAD 8 made by Cyan.   No amp version.

From: Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

I hate to say this .the match on mux insertion loss does not add up in this 
manner...
(I think you are thinking of GPON Muxes... not the same as CWDM or DWDM)

Always best to Check the MFG Specs 

(I have 8 channel CWDM muxes which have a low insertion loss (less than 2db on 
each lambda ! )

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

  From: "Chuck McCown" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 7:05:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

  Passive optical muxing is just a cascade of splitters with the 3dB per split. 
 So 8:1 passive mux is 2*2*2 so 9 dB theoretically, 11 or so in real life. 

  From: Paul McCall
  Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 4:31 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

  Does using a mux require a “better” optical budget?

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:31 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

  Not really. A mux is a mux. Just pay attention to insertion loss numbers to 
make sure you still have the optical budget you need.

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "Paul McCall" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:29:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

  Is  running an 8 channel mux any more reliable than a 40 channel mux on a 
link of that distance?  

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 6:22 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

  Cheaper to use a mux now than to figure out how to transition 10G of traffic 
elsewhere later when you need to take the link down to put a mux in?  :-p

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "Paul McCall" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 5:20:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

  I didn’t think of that but yes  that makes sense

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
  Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:19 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

  Not that you wont need them, but maybe someone else would and you can sell a 
channel to them?

On Apr 14, 2017, at 12:07 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

Wow, I can’t imagine needing that many channels of 10G anytime in the near 
future.  But, I guess ya never know

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 1:26 PM
    To: af@afmug.com
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

They do have smaller ones, but the cost of the mux isn't that much. Our 18 
channel ones are about $1500 for the pair, IIRC.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: "Paul McCall" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 11:16:21 AM
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

This looks like it supports 40 channels, I really just need one (for now), 
but if that is part of the HW config needed, 8 channel would be more than 
sufficient.

Paul

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

Use this tool to help you understand and design LH fiber solutions.

http://www.fs.com/support/dwdm-edfa-amplifier-for-long-haul-applications-100

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

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  From: "Paul McCall" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 2:45:54 AM
  Subject: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

  What equipment can we use

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread Paul McCall

I am assuming that they will provide that, based on our conversations.  They 
want success for this as much as I do.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

80 miles of dark with no regen or hut with electricity for amplification in the 
middle?  Don't even think about trying it (even with special "160km" optics) 
until you have high quality OTDR shots in hand, shot from each direction on 
each strand.

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 11:45 PM, Paul McCall 
mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:
What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit?

Paul, PDMNet

Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

2017-04-14 Thread PE R

Paul,
We have an upcoming project for +5 rings, the longest is essentially a 
collapsed 60 mile fiber ring and as noted, a regen is required to support this 
distance.

  From: Paul McCall 
 To: "af@afmug.com"  
 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 9:00 PM
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig

 I am assuming that they will provide that, 
based on our conversations.  They want success for this as much as I do.     
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2017 8:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Backhauling fiber 80 miles at 10Gig    80 miles of dark 
with no regen or hut with electricity for amplification in the middle?  Don't 
even think about trying it (even with special "160km" optics) until you have 
high quality OTDR shots in hand, shot from each direction on each strand.    On 
Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 11:45 PM, Paul McCall  wrote: 
What equipment can we use (cost efficient) to light up 80 miles of dark fiber 
at 10gbit?

Paul, PDMNet

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