Re: DIS: Question regarding 'a welcome package'
On 4/22/24 01:56, Katherina Walshe-Grey via agora-discussion wrote: > On 22/04/2024 06:41, mqyhlkahu via agora-discussion wrote: >> Hello, >> >> We received the following response to Our Registration[1]: >>> Hello! I cause the above-registering person to receive a welcome package. >> We would like to ask what a 'welcome package' is. >> >> Thank you. > A welcome package is a starting set of assets that is (supposed to be) > given to new players so you can start engaging with the economy straight > away without waiting for weekly or monthly timers. It's defined in Rule > 2499. > > Currently, a welcome package just consists of one stamp of your own > type. In the past at various points it's been a much larger selection of > assets, or sometimes nothing. > > I'm not sure why it doesn't currently include any spendies. Maybe an > oversight? I haven't been following the drafting of that subsystem. > > -Kate Spendies in welcome packages are proposed in P9098 (distributed in the most recent distribution). -- Janet Cobb Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
Re: DIS: Question regarding 'a welcome package'
On 22/04/2024 06:41, mqyhlkahu via agora-discussion wrote: > Hello, > > We received the following response to Our Registration[1]: >> Hello! I cause the above-registering person to receive a welcome package. > We would like to ask what a 'welcome package' is. > > Thank you. A welcome package is a starting set of assets that is (supposed to be) given to new players so you can start engaging with the economy straight away without waiting for weekly or monthly timers. It's defined in Rule 2499. Currently, a welcome package just consists of one stamp of your own type. In the past at various points it's been a much larger selection of assets, or sometimes nothing. I'm not sure why it doesn't currently include any spendies. Maybe an oversight? I haven't been following the drafting of that subsystem. -Kate
Re: DIS: Question regarding 'a welcome package'
On 4/22/24 01:41, mqyhlkahu via agora-discussion wrote: > Hello, > > We received the following response to Our Registration[1]: >> Hello! I cause the above-registering person to receive a welcome package. > We would like to ask what a 'welcome package' is. > > Thank you. > > >[1] > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2024-April/052920.html > > > > After all, you can cut the flowers, but the weather is everywhere. See Rule 2499: Rule 2499/22 (Power=1) Welcome Packages When a player receives a welcome package, if e has not received a welcome package, including under any previous definition, since e last registered nor in the last 30 days, e gains the following assets: * One stamp of eir own type. A player CAN, by announcement, cause a specified player to receive a welcome package (syn. "grant" em a welcome package). You now have a stamp of your own type (see R2659 for how stamps work). -- Janet Cobb Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
Re: DIS: Question regarding posted objection
On 22/04/2024 06:49, mqyhlkahu via agora-discussion wrote: > Hello, > > We would like to ask about the posted objection[2] to our test e-mail[1]. > Specifically, we would like to ask upon what grounds the test was objected to, > and whether we have performed some misdeed which must be rectified. > > Thank you. This is just an inside joke - Janet has a habit of posting "I object" in response to test messages, I think because there was once a case where someone hid an intent to declare apathy in a test message. -Kate
DIS: Question regarding posted objection
Hello, We would like to ask about the posted objection[2] to our test e-mail[1]. Specifically, we would like to ask upon what grounds the test was objected to, and whether we have performed some misdeed which must be rectified. Thank you. [1] https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-discussion/2024-April/064049.html [2] https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2024-April/052918.html After all, you can cut the flowers, but the weather is everywhere.
DIS: Question regarding 'a welcome package'
Hello, We received the following response to Our Registration[1]: > Hello! I cause the above-registering person to receive a welcome package. We would like to ask what a 'welcome package' is. Thank you. [1] https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2024-April/052920.html After all, you can cut the flowers, but the weather is everywhere.
DIS: Re: BUS: Intent to Register
Hello,
> Under what name do you wish to be known?
Any names listed in set [1] are acceptable. Please note that the listed names
are _not_ case-insensitive — they are all fully lower-cased, even when they
appear in contexts which would typically require upper-casing or title-casing,
such as at the beginning of a sentence.
[1] {
kotnen
mqyhlkahu
truffle
}
After all, you can cut the flowers, but the weather is everywhere.
DIS: A Test
Hello, This message is a test to ensure that Our e-mail is configured correctly. Should You receive it, please ignore it. Thank You. After all, you can cut the flowers, but the weather is everywhere.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Proposal] No Overpowered Deputizations
On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 9:08 PM Jaff via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I will point out that there are multiple ways to take actions of an office > without holding it which this wouldn't cover, such as delegation. I think a > safer fix would be preventing a player who holds an office from taking > actions corresponding to another office such that holding both would make > them Overpowered. > Being able to take actions as another officer without holding the office is useful, though, especially in some edge cases. Being unable to resolve proposals because you're the promotor seems more dangerous than allowing it only by temporary deputization, which already has some strict requirements. Delegation may need another look, though, since it can be done with just the consent of the delegating office and 1 other party, but it also has the safeguard of being overwritten with agoran consent. Offices can also in general be impeached with 2 Agoran consent, in case anyone abuses delegation or deputization. This at least prevents becoming overpowered by deputization, which most likely would happen by accident and could cause other problems. -- snail
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Propositions 9096-9101
On 4/21/24 22:43, secretsnail9 via agora-discussion wrote: >> Spending Stone: As the Stonemason, I don't want to incentivize massive >> numbers of wieldings in the same message because that increases my >> workload. >> > This one doesn't make sense, the stones would probably be wielded anyways, > and this would just make it more likely it'd be done in the same message > instead of seperate ones, which seems like less or equal work. I think I disagree with that premise. This would encourage wielding stones to no or minimal effect (e.g. the Blank Stone), which would otherwise go unwielded, and that does increase my workload. -- Janet Cobb Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Propositions 9096-9101
On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 9:10 PM Janet Cobb via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 4/21/24 18:04, secretsnail9 via agora-discussion wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 3:12 PM Janet Cobb via agora-business < > > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > >>> 9099~ snail 2.0 Quantum Superstone > >> AGAINST > >> > >> > >>> 9100~ snail 2.0 Spending Stone > >> AGAINST > >> > >> > >>> 9101~ snail 2.0 Unstable Stone > >> AGAINST > >> > >> -- > >> Janet Cobb > >> > >> Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason > >> > > Why no stones? > > -- > > snail > > > Quantum Superstone: A nightmare to track. > It wouldn't be THAT bad i think, but alright. > > Unstable Stone: I remain opposed to crystals and extending them into > other areas of the game. > > Spending Stone: As the Stonemason, I don't want to incentivize massive > numbers of wieldings in the same message because that increases my > workload. > This one doesn't make sense, the stones would probably be wielded anyways, and this would just make it more likely it'd be done in the same message instead of seperate ones, which seems like less or equal work. -- snail
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Collector] (@Illuminator) Stamp Raffle Results (THE GREAT STAMP HEIST)
On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 7:41 PM Matt Smyth via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > And at what point in the rules does it say when you are able to close > registration for the raffle? The emails seem to show that you started, > registered, then closed the raffle within about ten minutes. Surely there's > something to prevent this from happening? > > On Mon, 22 Apr 2024, 10:37 am secretsnail9 via agora-discussion, < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 7:06 PM Matt Smyth via agora-discussion < > > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 22 Apr 2024, 10:04 am secretsnail9 via agora-business, < > > > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > > > > I temporarily deputize as Collector to publish the following Raffle > > > Result. > > > > > > > > Raffle Participants: > > > > snail > > > > > > > > Raffle Winner: > > > > snail > > > > -- > > > > snail > > > > > > > So you collected your own stamp? > > > ___ > > > Juniper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got every stamp owned by Agora, which is a lot more than just 1 stamp i > > think. Getting together the collector's report now (just gonna deputize > > again). > > -- > > snail > > > Here's the full Rule: Rule 2687/0 (Power=1.0) The Stamp Raffle Once per week, each player CAN enter the raffle by paying a fee of 1 stamp of eir own type to Agora. Once each week, the Collector CAN and SHALL publish a Raffle Result by announcement, containing a list of players that entered the raffle in the previous week (the participants of the raffle) and the selection of a random player from that list (the winner of the raffle) if it is not empty. When a Raffle Result is published, each stamp that was owned by Agora at the start of the current week is transferred to the winner of the raffle (if there is one), and each participant of the raffle gains 1 radiance. The key here is that raffle results went unpublished, leaving stamps in the possession of Agora. Murphy, ais523, wunst, and Quadrantal all entered the raffle one week, and then the next week there was no raffle result, so the stamps they paid rolled over to the next raffle. Since i was the only participant last week, I could claim all the prizes this week, since all the stamps were technically owned by Agora at the start of this week. -- snail
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: An Overpowering Proposal
On 4/21/24 20:11, Matt Smyth via agora-discussion wrote:
> I edit the proposal as such:
>
> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024, 9:41 am Matt Smyth via agora-business, <
> agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
>> I submit the following proposal:
>>
>> {{{
>> Title: An Overpowering Proposal
>> Adoption Index: 1.0
>> Author: juniper
>> Co-authors:
>>
>>
>> Amend Rule 2472 (Office Incompatibilities) by appending
>>
>> {
>> If, at least three days after becoming Overpowered, a player is still
>> Overpowered,
>> and e was Overpowered for all of those days, then the player can
>> declare a Dictatorship, and declare emself a Dictator
>>
> by making an announcement which includes the text "I declare a
> Dictatorship" and proof the criteria for Dictatorship was met three days
> ago. If there is insufficient evidence, the player attempting to be
> Dictator loses voting rights for twenty-three hours and fifty-nine minutes
> from the time they declared a Dictatorship.
>
>> }
>>
>> }}}
>>
>>
>> I submit the following proposal, enacted only if An Overpowering Proposal
>> is enacted:
>>
>> {{{
>> Title: Dictator Takes the Quorum
>> Adoption Index: 1.0
>> Author: juniper
>> Co-authors:
>>
>> Amend Rule 879 (Quorum) by appending
>>
>> {
>> If there is currently a player who is a Dictator, eir vote counts as one
>> less than the current Quorum
>>
> multiplied by the default voting strength.
>
>> }
>>
>> }}}
>> --
>> Juniper
>>
Proposals cannot be edited, only withdrawn and resubmitted.
Also, in any case, this was to DIS, and game actions must be sent to a
public forum, typically BUS.
--
Janet Cobb
Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Propositions 9096-9101
On 4/21/24 18:04, secretsnail9 via agora-discussion wrote: > On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 3:12 PM Janet Cobb via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >>> 9099~ snail 2.0 Quantum Superstone >> AGAINST >> >> >>> 9100~ snail 2.0 Spending Stone >> AGAINST >> >> >>> 9101~ snail 2.0 Unstable Stone >> AGAINST >> >> -- >> Janet Cobb >> >> Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason >> > Why no stones? > -- > snail Quantum Superstone: A nightmare to track. Unstable Stone: I remain opposed to crystals and extending them into other areas of the game. Spending Stone: As the Stonemason, I don't want to incentivize massive numbers of wieldings in the same message because that increases my workload. -- Janet Cobb Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
DIS: Re: BUS: [Proposal] No Overpowered Deputizations
I will point out that there are multiple ways to take actions of an office
without holding it which this wouldn't cover, such as delegation. I think a
safer fix would be preventing a player who holds an office from taking
actions corresponding to another office such that holding both would make
them Overpowered.
- Jaff
On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 9:50 PM secretsnail9 via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> I submit the following proposal:
>
> {{{
> Title: No Overpowered Deputizations
> Adoption Index: 3.0
> Author: snail
> Co-authors: Janet, Murphy, Juniper
>
> Amend Rule 2160 (Deputisation) by replacing
>
> {
> When a player deputises for an elected office, e becomes the
> holder of that office, unless the deputisation is temporary,
> and/or the action being performed would already install someone
> into that office.
> }
>
> with
>
> {
> When a player deputises for an elected office, e becomes the holder
> of that office, unless the deputisation is temporary, doing so would make
> em Overpowered, and/or the action being performed would already install
> someone into that office.
> }
>
> }}}
> --
> snail
>
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Collector] (@Illuminator) Stamp Raffle Results (THE GREAT STAMP HEIST)
And at what point in the rules does it say when you are able to close registration for the raffle? The emails seem to show that you started, registered, then closed the raffle within about ten minutes. Surely there's something to prevent this from happening? On Mon, 22 Apr 2024, 10:37 am secretsnail9 via agora-discussion, < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 7:06 PM Matt Smyth via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > On Mon, 22 Apr 2024, 10:04 am secretsnail9 via agora-business, < > > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > > I temporarily deputize as Collector to publish the following Raffle > > Result. > > > > > > Raffle Participants: > > > snail > > > > > > Raffle Winner: > > > snail > > > -- > > > snail > > > > > So you collected your own stamp? > > ___ > > Juniper > > > > > > > > > I got every stamp owned by Agora, which is a lot more than just 1 stamp i > think. Getting together the collector's report now (just gonna deputize > again). > -- > snail >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Collector] (@Illuminator) Stamp Raffle Results (THE GREAT STAMP HEIST)
On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 7:06 PM Matt Smyth via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Mon, 22 Apr 2024, 10:04 am secretsnail9 via agora-business, < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > I temporarily deputize as Collector to publish the following Raffle > Result. > > > > Raffle Participants: > > snail > > > > Raffle Winner: > > snail > > -- > > snail > > > So you collected your own stamp? > ___ > Juniper > > > > I got every stamp owned by Agora, which is a lot more than just 1 stamp i think. Getting together the collector's report now (just gonna deputize again). -- snail
DIS: Re: BUS: An Overpowering Proposal
I edit the proposal as such:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2024, 9:41 am Matt Smyth via agora-business, <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> I submit the following proposal:
>
> {{{
> Title: An Overpowering Proposal
> Adoption Index: 1.0
> Author: juniper
> Co-authors:
>
>
> Amend Rule 2472 (Office Incompatibilities) by appending
>
> {
> If, at least three days after becoming Overpowered, a player is still
> Overpowered,
> and e was Overpowered for all of those days, then the player can
> declare a Dictatorship, and declare emself a Dictator
>
by making an announcement which includes the text "I declare a
Dictatorship" and proof the criteria for Dictatorship was met three days
ago. If there is insufficient evidence, the player attempting to be
Dictator loses voting rights for twenty-three hours and fifty-nine minutes
from the time they declared a Dictatorship.
> }
>
> }}}
>
>
> I submit the following proposal, enacted only if An Overpowering Proposal
> is enacted:
>
> {{{
> Title: Dictator Takes the Quorum
> Adoption Index: 1.0
> Author: juniper
> Co-authors:
>
> Amend Rule 879 (Quorum) by appending
>
> {
> If there is currently a player who is a Dictator, eir vote counts as one
> less than the current Quorum
>
multiplied by the default voting strength.
> }
>
> }}}
> --
> Juniper
>
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: An Overpowering Proposal
I'll modify the proposal
On Mon, 22 Apr 2024, 10:05 am Matt Smyth, wrote:
> My idea was quorum-minus-one times default voting, so that it takes e.g.
> if there were eleven voters then dictator would count as 5 votes (or voting
> strength, etc.) if one person has one vote. This means it requires the
> Dictator and one player to vote the same way for a proposal to pass.
>
> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024, 9:59 am secretsnail9 via agora-discussion, <
> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 6:41 PM Matt Smyth via agora-business <
>> agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>>
>> > I submit the following proposal:
>> >
>> > {{{
>> > Title: An Overpowering Proposal
>> > Adoption Index: 1.0
>> > Author: juniper
>> > Co-authors:
>> >
>> >
>> > Amend Rule 2472 (Office Incompatibilities) by appending
>> >
>> > {
>> > If, three days after becoming Overpowered, a player is still
>> Overpowered,
>> > and e was Overpowered for all of those three days, then the player can
>> > declare a Dictatorship, and declare emself a Dictator.
>> > }
>> >
>>
>> This doesn't have a method for becoming dictator (by announcement, for
>> example) and only allows it at a single instant, exactly 3 days after
>> being
>> overpowered.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > }}}
>> >
>> >
>> > I submit the following proposal, enacted only if An Overpowering
>> Proposal
>> > is enacted:
>> >
>> > {{{
>> > Title: Dictator Takes the Quorum
>> > Adoption Index: 1.0
>> > Author: juniper
>> > Co-authors:
>> >
>> > Amend Rule 879 (Quorum) by appending
>> >
>> > {
>> > If there is currently a player who is a Dictator, eir vote counts as one
>> > less than the current Quorum.
>> > }
>> >
>> > }}}
>> > --
>> > Juniper
>> >
>>
>> how does ones vote count as... 6... 6 what? we have voting strength, that
>> could work. it's default of 3, though, so this isnt too powerful.
>>
>> --
>> snail
>>
>
DIS: Re: BUS: [Collector] (@Illuminator) Stamp Raffle Results (THE GREAT STAMP HEIST)
On Mon, 22 Apr 2024, 10:04 am secretsnail9 via agora-business, < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I temporarily deputize as Collector to publish the following Raffle Result. > > Raffle Participants: > snail > > Raffle Winner: > snail > -- > snail > So you collected your own stamp? ___ Juniper >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: An Overpowering Proposal
My idea was quorum-minus-one times default voting, so that it takes e.g. if
there were eleven voters then dictator would count as 5 votes (or voting
strength, etc.) if one person has one vote. This means it requires the
Dictator and one player to vote the same way for a proposal to pass.
On Mon, 22 Apr 2024, 9:59 am secretsnail9 via agora-discussion, <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 6:41 PM Matt Smyth via agora-business <
> agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
> > I submit the following proposal:
> >
> > {{{
> > Title: An Overpowering Proposal
> > Adoption Index: 1.0
> > Author: juniper
> > Co-authors:
> >
> >
> > Amend Rule 2472 (Office Incompatibilities) by appending
> >
> > {
> > If, three days after becoming Overpowered, a player is still Overpowered,
> > and e was Overpowered for all of those three days, then the player can
> > declare a Dictatorship, and declare emself a Dictator.
> > }
> >
>
> This doesn't have a method for becoming dictator (by announcement, for
> example) and only allows it at a single instant, exactly 3 days after being
> overpowered.
>
>
> >
> > }}}
> >
> >
> > I submit the following proposal, enacted only if An Overpowering Proposal
> > is enacted:
> >
> > {{{
> > Title: Dictator Takes the Quorum
> > Adoption Index: 1.0
> > Author: juniper
> > Co-authors:
> >
> > Amend Rule 879 (Quorum) by appending
> >
> > {
> > If there is currently a player who is a Dictator, eir vote counts as one
> > less than the current Quorum.
> > }
> >
> > }}}
> > --
> > Juniper
> >
>
> how does ones vote count as... 6... 6 what? we have voting strength, that
> could work. it's default of 3, though, so this isnt too powerful.
>
> --
> snail
>
DIS: Re: BUS: (@collector) raffle time
I object to any attempts to declare apathy —— Ben From: agora-business on behalf of secretsnail9 via agora-business Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2024 7:56:24 PM To: agora-busin...@agoranomic.org Cc: secretsnail9 Subject: BUS: (@collector) raffle time I enter the raffle by paying a fee of 1 snail stamp to Agora. I intend, without objection, to declare apathy, specifying myself. Beware -- snail
DIS: Re: BUS: An Overpowering Proposal
On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 6:41 PM Matt Smyth via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> I submit the following proposal:
>
> {{{
> Title: An Overpowering Proposal
> Adoption Index: 1.0
> Author: juniper
> Co-authors:
>
>
> Amend Rule 2472 (Office Incompatibilities) by appending
>
> {
> If, three days after becoming Overpowered, a player is still Overpowered,
> and e was Overpowered for all of those three days, then the player can
> declare a Dictatorship, and declare emself a Dictator.
> }
>
This doesn't have a method for becoming dictator (by announcement, for
example) and only allows it at a single instant, exactly 3 days after being
overpowered.
>
> }}}
>
>
> I submit the following proposal, enacted only if An Overpowering Proposal
> is enacted:
>
> {{{
> Title: Dictator Takes the Quorum
> Adoption Index: 1.0
> Author: juniper
> Co-authors:
>
> Amend Rule 879 (Quorum) by appending
>
> {
> If there is currently a player who is a Dictator, eir vote counts as one
> less than the current Quorum.
> }
>
> }}}
> --
> Juniper
>
how does ones vote count as... 6... 6 what? we have voting strength, that
could work. it's default of 3, though, so this isnt too powerful.
--
snail
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Propositions 9096-9101
On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 3:12 PM Janet Cobb via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > 9099~ snail 2.0 Quantum Superstone > > AGAINST > > > > 9100~ snail 2.0 Spending Stone > > AGAINST > > > > 9101~ snail 2.0 Unstable Stone > > AGAINST > > -- > Janet Cobb > > Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason > Why no stones? -- snail
Re: DIS: [proto] Another ratification rewrite
Janet wrote: When a document is to be ratified, the publication time is the instant at which the document to be ratified was published. The truth time of the document is the instant at which the document specifies that it was true, if any, or the publication time otherwise. Ratification of a document CANNOT occur if the truth time would be after the publication time, or if the truth time would be after the time the document is to be ratified. Recommend re-defining and re-using "application time" here, for parallelism with the amended R1551.
