[amsat-bb] full duplex w/ 2 HT's
hola, i am trying to determine the best way to work full duplex on the birds with 2 HT's or radios. i cannot find any info so far on the web. my concern is to keep the transmit power out of the receive radio, i guess basically the difference between a diplexer and duplexer. since i am efficient (lazy) i thought i would just look for suggestions here while i am checking google also. what do i need, di/du/ plexer, and what is the correct wiring scheme ? i will be using the arrow antenna without the built in duplexer, from the 2 feeds (vhf/uhf) and 2 HT's for now. my picture of it so far, is to wire the vhf radio direct to the vhf feed port on the arrow, and have the uhf port on the arrow come into a duplexer, with the duplexer uhf port going to the uhf radio, and the duplexer vhf port terminated into a 50 ohm dummy load. also, any suggestions of specific duplexers would be appreciated. i think i started on this project a few years ago, but never got around to getti! ng it all together. grazie mille, Robert k f 0 gcn81 in the woodwork, literally, shasta/klamath national forests. ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: full duplex w/ 2 HT's
If I understand your wiring, I think you have it correct. Is this what you are trying to do? http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/articles/Mode-J/ Note that for mode-B satellites where you are transmitting on 70cm and receiving on 2m, this won't work. In my experience, the extra filtering is also not needed there. Good luck, Greg KO6TH hola, i am trying to determine the best way to work full duplex on the birds with 2 HT's or radios. i cannot find any info so far on the web. my concern is to keep the transmit power out of the receive radio, i guess basically the difference between a diplexer and duplexer. since i am efficient (lazy) i thought i would just look for suggestions here while i am checking google also. what do i need, di/du/ plexer, and what is the correct wiring scheme ? i will be using the arrow antenna without the built in duplexer, from the 2 feeds (vhf/uhf) and 2 HT's for now. my picture of it so far, is to wire the vhf radio direct to the vhf feed port on the arrow, and have the uhf port on the arrow come into a duplexer, with the duplexer uhf port going to the uhf radio, and the duplexer vhf port terminated into a 50 ohm dummy load. also, any suggestions of specific duplexers would be appreciated. i think i started on this project a few years ago, but never got around to get! ti! ng it all together. grazie mille, Robert k f 0 gcn81 in the woodwork, literally, shasta/klamath national forests. ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] thanks for the help / info
ahoy, thank you to Bruce-kk5do , Rick-wa4nvm , Dave-kb1vph , Greg-ko6th , Eric-on4hf , Scott-n1aia for the replies and help. i was looking at the comet cf-4160 (must be the new version), if i need it, and will be on the air from grid cn81 soon. i have a new LiIon battery on order, so i can run full power, 5W, from my th-f6a.thanks very much ! Robert k f 0 g ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations of Interest
It is to bad that the concentration couldn't be on something clever that would earn us some mass for a transponder. Like say some sort antenna that is deplorable and would massively increase the data rates.. Like an inflatable. Robert WB5MZO Sent from my iPad On May 31, 2012, at 12:46, "i8cvs" wrote: > Hi Stefan, VE4NSA > > I believe that ESA is interested to have a payload placed on the moon only to > make important and particular experiments that are impossible to manage to > put something into earth orbit. > > The capability of an Amateur Radio transponder to communicate between us or > for educational outreach and training opportunities associated with it can be > experimented even placing a transponder on earth orbit or on top of a hill. > > As you realize for the moment ESA seems to be not to much interested on > satellite amateur radio P3E and scientific probe P5A to Mars,figure out to > place an amateur radio transponder on the Moon. > > 73" de > > i8CVS Domenico > - Original Message - > From: Stefan Wagener > To: i8cvs > Cc: Amsat - BBs > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:48 PM > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations of > Interest > > > Yes Domenico, > > > You are correct. However, that particular ESA proposal is not about putting > it into orbit. It is an opportunity to have a payload placed on the moon. > Once ESA has a proposal to put something into orbit, by all means. > > > Hope this helps, > > > Stefan > > > On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 9:31 AM, i8cvs wrote: > >Hi Stefan, VE4NSA > >It does not make sense to put a transponder on the Moon just for the simple >reason that it's much more, simple and cheap to put it into earth orbit. > >73" de > >i8CVS Domenico > > >- Original Message - >From: "Stefan Wagener" >To: "Amsat - BBs" > >Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:06 AM >Subject: [amsat-bb] European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations of >Interest > > > >> ESA has posted a very unique opportunity: >> >> http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/HSF_Research/SEMGUMZWD2H_2.html >> >> Wouldn't it be great if the key AMSAT organizations put a proposal >together >> to put a ham radio transponder on the moon. It can have all the cool >> educational outreach and training opportunities associated with it. Let's >> encourage the AMSAT leadership teams to move quickly. We can do it, don't >> you think? >> >> Stefan VE4NSA > >> ___ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] AMSAT at Ham-Com, 8-9 June, Plano, TX, Special Event K5P
AMSAT will have an AMSAT Booth, Satellite Demonstrations, and two Satellite Talks at Ham-Com in Plano, TX, on 8-9 June 2012. The talks will be given by Douglas Quagliana, KA2UPW/5, and Keith Pugh, W5IU. This year there will be a Special Event activity (sponsored by the Plano Amateur Radio Klub) associated with Ham-Com and the call sign will be K5P. AMSAT's Satellite Demonstrations will be conducted using K5P as part of the Special Event. Additional details about Ham-Com are available at: http://www.hamcom.org/ If you attend Ham-Com, drop by and see us. In addition, if you can spare an hour or two, we could use the help in the AMSAT Booth and doing the Demos. We plan to work as many of the following Satellite Passes as possible: Ham-Com 2012 Demos Grid EM13pb Min El = 10 deg Time Zone UTC WinAos QTH: -96.7/33.1 T#: 12577 Sat.: 7 [Standard] -- Day Object AOS (U) LOS Period maxEl AZ -- 08.06.2012 VO-5213:53 14:0007 39 031 - 172 08.06.2012 VO-5215:30 15:3404 14 319 - 259 08.06.2012 HO-6815:41 15:5413 48 029 - 176 08.06.2012 HO-6817:29 17:4011 28 350 - 238 08.06.2012 FO-2918:43 18:5613 64 020 - 184 08.06.2012 AO-2718:44 18:5107 22 118 - 018 08.06.2012 SO-5020:08 20:1507 19 008 - 100 08.06.2012 AO-2720:23 20:3209 35 196 - 331 08.06.2012 FO-2920:30 20:3808 18 332 - 248 08.06.2012 SO-5021:48 21:5608 43 317 - 174 WinAos QTH: -96.7/33.1 T#: 12578 Sat.: 7 [Standard] -- Day Object AOS (U) LOS Period maxEl AZ -- 09.06.2012 VO-5214:10 14:1707 66 019 - 184 09.06.2012 AO-0714:11 14:1908 16 336 - 268 09.06.2012 HO-6815:24 15:3612 35 034 - 164 09.06.2012 HO-6817:12 17:2412 36 355 - 227 09.06.2012 FO-2917:50 17:5909 23 048 - 148 09.06.2012 AO-2718:18 18:2204 12 084 - 036 09.06.2012 FO-2919:34 19:4612 51 359 - 213 09.06.2012 AO-2719:54 20:0410 66 174 - 343 09.06.2012 SO-5020:36 20:4408 47 345 - 134 09.06.2012 AO-0721:21 21:3009 17 091 - 015 Come see us or talk to us! 73 - Keith, W5IU ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations of Interest
Do you really mean a "deplorable" antenna? 73 - Keith, W5IU -Original Message- From: Robert G Oler To: i8cvs Cc: Amsat - BBs Sent: Sat, Jun 2, 2012 1:44 pm Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations of Interest It is to bad that the concentration couldn't be on something clever that would earn us some mass for a transponder. Like say some sort antenna that is deplorable and would massively increase the data rates.. Like an inflatable. Robert WB5MZO Sent from my iPad On May 31, 2012, at 12:46, "i8cvs" wrote: > Hi Stefan, VE4NSA > > I believe that ESA is interested to have a payload placed on the moon only to make important and particular experiments that are impossible to manage to put something into earth orbit. > > The capability of an Amateur Radio transponder to communicate between us or for educational outreach and training opportunities associated with it can be experimented even placing a transponder on earth orbit or on top of a hill. > > As you realize for the moment ESA seems to be not to much interested on satellite amateur radio P3E and scientific probe P5A to Mars,figure out to place an amateur radio transponder on the Moon. > > 73" de > > i8CVS Domenico > - Original Message - > From: Stefan Wagener > To: i8cvs > Cc: Amsat - BBs > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:48 PM > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations of Interest > > > Yes Domenico, > > > You are correct. However, that particular ESA proposal is not about putting it into orbit. It is an opportunity to have a payload placed on the moon. Once ESA has a proposal to put something into orbit, by all means. > > > Hope this helps, > > > Stefan > > > On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 9:31 AM, i8cvs wrote: > >Hi Stefan, VE4NSA > >It does not make sense to put a transponder on the Moon just for the simple >reason that it's much more, simple and cheap to put it into earth orbit. > >73" de > >i8CVS Domenico > > >- Original Message - >From: "Stefan Wagener" >To: "Amsat - BBs" > >Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:06 AM >Subject: [amsat-bb] European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations of >Interest > > > >> ESA has posted a very unique opportunity: >> >> http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/HSF_Research/SEMGUMZWD2H_2.html >> >> Wouldn't it be great if the key AMSAT organizations put a proposal >together >> to put a ham radio transponder on the moon. It can have all the cool >> educational outreach and training opportunities associated with it. Let's >> encourage the AMSAT leadership teams to move quickly. We can do it, don't >> you think? >> >> Stefan VE4NSA > >> ___ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: full duplex w/ 2 HT's
I am not sure that the filtering from the small duplexer with the Arrow is significant enough compared with the injection loss that it will produce. I would try it first plumbed first directly into each radio. In this case the biggest issue will front end overload of the rx portable, I have not had problems when I tried it using FT817 and a Yesau handheld. Dave WB7DRU Minnesota Sent from my android device. -Original Message- From: Greg D To: Robert Coppock Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 12:07 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: full duplex w/ 2 HT's If I understand your wiring, I think you have it correct. Is this what you are trying to do? http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/articles/Mode-J/ Note that for mode-B satellites where you are transmitting on 70cm and receiving on 2m, this won't work. In my experience, the extra filtering is also not needed there. Good luck, Greg KO6TH > > > > hola, i am trying to determine the best way to work full duplex on the > birds with 2 HT's or radios. i cannot find any info so far on the web. my > concern is to keep the transmit power out of the receive radio, i guess > basically the difference between a diplexer and duplexer. since i am > efficient (lazy) i thought i would just look for suggestions here while i am > checking google also.what do i need, di/du/ plexer, and what is the > correct wiring scheme ? i will be using the arrow antenna without the built > in duplexer, from the 2 feeds (vhf/uhf) and 2 HT's for now. my picture of > it so far, is to wire the vhf radio direct to the vhf feed port on the arrow, > and have the uhf port on the arrow come into a duplexer, with the duplexer > uhf port going to the uhf radio, and the duplexer vhf port terminated into a > 50 ohm dummy load. also, any suggestions of specific duplexers would be > appreciated. i think i started on this project a few years ago, but never got > around to get! ti! > ng it all together. grazie mille, Robert k f 0 gcn81 in the > woodwork, literally, > shasta/klamath national forests. > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Fwd: AMSAT BB
fowarding this email to the bb for a local ham 73 Bob W7LRD - Forwarded Message - From: "James Denneny" <57jndenn...@comcast.net> To: "Bob- W7LRD" Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2012 1:19:32 PM Subject: AMSAT BB Bob Please add this item to the BB: AEA DSP2232 Multi-Mode Digital signal Processor Modem. Used for decoding Satellite telemetry. Works all digital modes. Rare item. Manual included $300 plus shipping. Jim K7EG 253-939-6107. Thanks Jim K7EG ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] PA5RWE passed away
It saddens me to report that a very active and positive sattelite opperator has passed away. Chris Heijzelaar PA5RWE has died in his sleep last night at the age of 51 just meters below his beloved loopyagies. condolances can be left on http://www.het-bar.net on behalf of his radiofriends I request that everyone that has known him remembers him for what he has done and celibrate his life. ps. please respect his wish and don't refer to him as OM. -- 73 Andre PE1RDW ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: full duplex w/ 2 HT's
Well just for your information, I run a FT-7900 & FT-2900 right next to each other to a 10 elem Diamond 70cm and a 5 elem Diamond 2m both pretty close to each other and have never had a single problem. Considering you are transmitting on 145.850 and receiving on 436.795... Hello, a world apart there and you are only using 5 watts. You will not have a problem and you will not even need a duplexer with the two hand helds. Two radios, Two antennas, Two pieces of coax. True Full Duplex :) Kevin KF7MYK > Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 14:53:27 -0500 > From: wb7...@usfamily.net > To: ko6th.g...@gmail.com; robertinor...@webtv.net > CC: amsat-bb@amsat.org > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: full duplex w/ 2 HT's > > I am not sure that the filtering from the small duplexer with the Arrow is > significant enough compared with the injection loss that it will produce. > > I would try it first plumbed first directly into each radio. In this case the > biggest issue will front end overload of the rx portable, I have not had > problems when I tried it using FT817 and a Yesau handheld. > > Dave > WB7DRU > Minnesota > > Sent from my android device. > > > > -Original Message- > From: Greg D > To: Robert Coppock > Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org > Sent: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 12:07 PM > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: full duplex w/ 2 HT's > > If I understand your wiring, I think you have it correct. > > Is this what you are trying to do? > http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/articles/Mode-J/ > > Note that for mode-B satellites where you are transmitting on 70cm and > receiving on 2m, this won't work. In my experience, the extra filtering > is also not needed there. > > Good luck, > > Greg KO6TH > > > > > > > > > hola, i am trying to determine the best way to work full duplex on the > > birds with 2 HT's or radios. i cannot find any info so far on the web. my > > concern is to keep the transmit power out of the receive radio, i guess > > basically the difference between a diplexer and duplexer. since i am > > efficient (lazy) i thought i would just look for suggestions here while i > > am checking google also. what do i need, di/du/ plexer, and what is the > > correct wiring scheme ? i will be using the arrow antenna without the built > > in duplexer, from the 2 feeds (vhf/uhf) and 2 HT's for now. my picture of > > it so far, is to wire the vhf radio direct to the vhf feed port on the > > arrow, and have the uhf port on the arrow come into a duplexer, with the > > duplexer uhf port going to the uhf radio, and the duplexer vhf port > > terminated into a 50 ohm dummy load. also, any suggestions of specific > > duplexers would be appreciated. i think i started on this project a few > > years ago, but never got around to get! > ti! > > ng it all together. grazie mille, Robert k f 0 g cn81 in the woodwork, > > literally, shasta/klamath national forests. > > ___ > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations
- Original Message - From: "Bob- W7LRD" To: "STeve Andre'" Cc: Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2012 7:16 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations Just for the "fun" of it I'd like to see an accurate link budget written up. It is a little bit out of my comfort zone. Maybe Domenico or one of you who has this knowledge could do it. I may even learn something. 73 Bob W7LRD Hi Bob, W7LRD Suppose to have a L/S linear transponder on the moon with the antennas perfectly oriented toward the Earth. L band is for the uplink from the Earth and S band is for downlink from the Moon. The L/S antenna gain has been selected the maximum as possible to have the antennas main lobe pointing at the Earth despite the relative movement of the Moon in respect of the Earth due of Libration and a fixed 20 dBi antenna on the Moon into L/S bands could easily cover the inclination X libration window with no need of the lunar antennas pointing correction for most of the time into a month. DATA FOR the 23 cm (1268 MHz) LUNAR receiving system.(UPLINK) Noise Figure of the 23 cm lunar receiver NF = 1 dB equivalent to ( 75 kelvin ) Equivalent total Noise Temperature Te as seen by the lunar 23 cm receiver with the antenna connected and looking at the earth..Te = 100 kelvin Linear Transponder 23 cm receiver Band WidthBW =150 KHz BW: Same as in Mode-B on OSCAR-10 and in OSCAR-13 23 cm RX Noise Floor into 2.4 KHz BW and Te = 100 kelvin: KTB = -175 dBW 23 cm RX lunar transponder RHCP Helix Antenna Gain..G = 16 dBic 23 cm TX terrestrial RHCP Helix Antenna Gain...G = 20 dBic 1268 MHz free space attenuation earth-moon at 380.000 Km-206 dB EARTH-MOON LINK BADGED CALCULATION FOR THE 23 cm UPLINK 23 cm terrestrial power =100 watt pep equivalent to...+20 dBW 23 cm terrestrial RHCP antenna Gain+20 dBic - 23 cm EIRP transmitted from the earth.+40 dBW 23 cm free space attenuation earth-moon 380.000 Km..-206 dB - 23 cm received power in to a 23 cm isotropic antenna on the moon...-166 dBW 23 cm antenna gain connected to 23 cm lunar receiver... +16 dBi - 23 cm available power at the input of the 23 cm lunar RX -150 dBW (*) 23 cm lunar receiver Noise Floor in to a 2400 Hz SSB Band Width and Equivalent Noise Temp. = 100 K -175 dBW --- S+N/N ratio available at the lunar 23 cm receiver output..+25 dB Now suppose that the S band 2400 MHz downlink of the lunar transponder is 20 watt pep and that 10 earth stations are putting the same signal level of S+N/N = +25 dB into the input of the 23 cm lunar receiver. In this conditions the S transponder will deliver the same power to each of the users i.e. 20 W / 10 = 2 watt pep to each user. Now suppose that the 2400 MHz antenna of the lunar transponder is a RHCP Helix with 20 dBic gain. The free space attenuation of the path Moon-Earth of 380.000 km at 2400 MHz is -212 dB Suppose that your receiving system on the ground station is similar to that you have used for AO40 i.e. a 120 cm parabolic dish with gain G = 27 dBic and a 2400 MHz downconverter with NF = 1 dB equivalent to 75 kelvin and performe a Downlink Budged Calculation as follows: MOON-EARTH LINK BADGED CALCULATION FOR 2400 MHz DOWNLINK Power delivered for each user = 2 watt pep equivalent to .+ 3 dBW 2400 MHz lunar TX RHCP antenna Gain..+ 20 dBic 2400 MHz EIRP transmitted from the Moon to each user...+ 23 dBW 2400 MHz free space attenuation Moon-Earth 380.000 Km...-212 dB --- Received power in to a 2400 MHz isotropic antenna on Earth ..- 189 dBW 2400 MHz 120 cm parabolic antenna gain on Earth+ 27 dBic -- 2400 MHz available power at the input of terrestrial receiver..- 162 dBW (*) 2400 M
[amsat-bb] Re: European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations
Thankyou Domenico...I knew you would be able to "crunch" the numbers. Based on these calculations I have just about enough left over hardware from AO-40 ( sobsob ) to make it work. Given the logistics, politics, financing etc I don't see anything like happening anytime soon. However it never hurts to analyze and dream of what could be. Today's dreams can be tomorrows reality. 73 Bob W7LRD - Original Message - From: "i8cvs" < domenico .i8...@tin.it> To: " Amsat - BBs" < amsat -bb@ amsat .org>, w7...@comcast.net, " jari koivurinne " < jari . koivurinne @ aina .net> Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2012 2:12:26 PM Subject: [ amsat -bb] Re: European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations - Original Message - From: "Bob- W7LRD" To: " STeve Andre' " < andres @ msu . edu > Cc: < amsat -bb@ amsat .org> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2012 7:16 AM Subject: [ amsat -bb] Re: European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations Just for the "fun" of it I'd like to see an accurate link budget written up. It is a little bit out of my comfort zone. Maybe Domenico or one of you who has this knowledge could do it. I may even learn something. 73 Bob W7LRD Hi Bob, W7LRD Suppose to have a L/S linear transponder on the moon with the antennas perfectly oriented toward the Earth. L band is for the uplink from the Earth and S band is for downlink from the Moon. The L/S antenna gain has been selected the maximum as possible to have the antennas main lobe pointing at the Earth despite the relative movement of the Moon in respect of the Earth due of Libration and a fixed 20 dBi antenna on the Moon into L/S bands could easily cover the inclination X libration window with no need of the lunar antennas pointing correction for most of the time into a month. DATA FOR the 23 cm (1268 MHz) LUNAR receiving system.( UPLINK ) Noise Figure of the 23 cm lunar receiver NF = 1 dB equivalent to ( 75 kelvin ) Equivalent total Noise Temperature Te as seen by the lunar 23 cm receiver with the antenna connected and looking at the earth..Te = 100 kelvin Linear Transponder 23 cm receiver Band Width BW =150 KHz BW : Same as in Mode-B on OSCAR-10 and in OSCAR-13 23 cm RX Noise Floor into 2.4 KHz BW and Te = 100 kelvin: KTB = -175 dBW 23 cm RX lunar transponder RHCP Helix Antenna Gain..G = 16 dBic 23 cm TX terrestrial RHCP Helix Antenna Gain...G = 20 dBic 1268 MHz free space attenuation earth-moon at 380.000 Km-206 dB EARTH-MOON LINK BADGED CALCULATION FOR THE 23 cm UPLINK 23 cm terrestrial power =100 watt pep equivalent to...+20 dBW 23 cm terrestrial RHCP antenna Gain+20 dBic - 23 cm EIRP transmitted from the earth.+40 dBW 23 cm free space attenuation earth-moon 380.000 Km..-206 dB - 23 cm received power in to a 23 cm isotropic antenna on the moon...-166 dBW 23 cm antenna gain connected to 23 cm lunar receiver... +16 dBi - 23 cm available power at the input of the 23 cm lunar RX -150 dBW (*) 23 cm lunar receiver Noise Floor in to a 2400 Hz SSB Band Width and Equivalent Noise Temp. = 100 K -175 dBW --- S+N/N ratio available at the lunar 23 cm receiver output..+25 dB Now suppose that the S band 2400 MHz downlink of the lunar transponder is 20 watt pep and that 10 earth stations are putting the same signal level of S+N/N = +25 dB into the input of the 23 cm lunar receiver. In this conditions the S transponder will deliver the same power to each of the users i.e. 20 W / 10 = 2 watt pep to each user. Now suppose that the 2400 MHz antenna of the lunar transponder is a RHCP Helix with 20 dBic gain. The free space attenuation of the path Moon-Earth of 380.000 km at 2400 MHz is -212 dB Suppose that your receiving system on the ground station is similar to that you have used for AO40 i.e. a 120 cm parabolic dish with gain G = 27 dBic and a 2400 MHz downconverter with NF = 1 dB equivalent to 75 kelvin and performe a Downlink Budged Calculation as follows: MOON-EARTH LINK BADGED CALCULATION FOR 2400 MHz DOWNLINK Power delivered for each user = 2 watt pep equivalent to .+ 3 dBW 2400 MHz lunar TX RHCP antenna Gain..+ 20 dBic
[amsat-bb] Re: European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations
Check http://www.amsatuk.me.uk/iaru/spreadsheet.htm for a detailed link budget spreadsheet, with accompanying explanations. 73, art….. W4ART Arlington VA On 2-Jun-2012, at 01:16 AM, Bob- W7LRD wrote: > > > Just for the "fun" of it I'd like to see an accurate link budget written up. > It is a little bit out of my comfort zone. Maybe Domenico or one of you who > has this knowledge could do it. I may even learn something. > > 73 Bob W7LRD > > antennas still down > Please contribute: http://pages.teamintraining.org/nca/moabtour12/afeller http://afeller.us ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations
Check also this discussion from James Miller, G3RUH: http://www.amsat.org/amsat/articles/g3ruh/110.html 73s Peter, DB2OS ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Uni_Trac 2000 and Windows 7 64-bit
Hi All, I am getting back QRV after a long hiatus, and recently upgraded the shack computer to Windows 7 64-bit.. now I am trying to install the software and drivers for my parallel port version ( metal box ) Uni_Trac 2000 rotor interface, and I can't even get the installed to run no matter what compatibility mode I run it in. It doesn't even open up.. Anybody have any suggestions? All advice will be cheerfully accepted. 73, Bob W1ICW ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations
Hi together, Please also have a look at this document: http://wsn.spaceflight.esa.int/docs/lunarlander/LunarLander_EIDA_CDI_230512.pdf in particular see point 2.2.2 Communication and 2.2.3: "Visibility of the Earth from the landing site imposes the following constraint: • communications shall only be possible within a 13.7 day (TBC) window each month, and shall depend on the availability of the ground station." further: "the mean power available for an individual payload is expected not to exceed 20W" 73s Peter DB2OS On 03.06.2012 00:29, Peter Guelzow wrote: > Check also this discussion from James Miller, G3RUH: > > http://www.amsat.org/amsat/articles/g3ruh/110.html > > > 73s Peter, DB2OS > > > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations
That can't be quite right. A gain antenna can be put on the moon but its half power beam width will be limited by libration. If we put a 2.401 GHz dish on the thing we could easily stay inside the HPBW and likely not need much power for a decent signal into a small dish on the earth. The problem is what to do with the things in the dark when it is truly cold and similarly hot when in the sun. I suggest no battery and nearly as dumb as a rock linear transponder. It probably isn't an earth satellite so it doesn't need much in the way of control. Interesting to say the least. Bob On Jun 1, 2012 8:05 PM, "Daniel Schultz" wrote: > Keep in mind that any ham radio transponder on the moon will not be an > "easy > sat". You will need an EME class station to work it. > > If we build a lunar transponder, we can expect to see many, many postings > on > Amsat-BB about how Amsat only cares about elite hams and is not interested > in > building satellites for the common ham. > > I'm not saying it wouldn't be fun to have a transponder on the moon, and > we in > the USA might even be able to help you build it if they get ITAR fixed in > time, but we better put on the flame proof trousers when we announce the > project to the masses. > > Dan Schultz N8FGV > > > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] ANS-155 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins
AMSAT NEWS SERVICE ANS-155 ANS is a free, weekly, news and information service of AMSAT North America, The Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation. ANS reports on the activities of a worldwide group of Amateur Radio operators who share an active interest in designing, building, launching and communicating through analog and digital Amateur Radio satellites. Please send any amateur satellite news or reports to: ans-editor at amsat.org *** * Nominating petitions for the election of upcoming open seats on * * the AMSAT-NA Board of Directors must be received at the AMSAT * * Office by June 15, 2012. The details of the nominating process * * are posted on the AMSAT front page news at http://www.amsat.org * *** In this edition: * STEM Education Identified as Critical for Continued Rides to Space * AMSAT-NA Board of Directors Nominations * AMSAT-UK Colloquium 2012 Second Call for Speakers * Successful ARISS Contact as Northland Preparatory Academy Calls ISS * Multiple CubeSats Autonomously Docking May Build Large Satellites * LVB Tracker Boxes in Stock at the AMSAT Office * 13cm Band Rules Expanded to Allow MedRadio Adjacent to Satellites * Funding Availability Key to Final Acceptance in QB50 Project * AMSAT at Ham-Com, 8-9 June, Plano, TX, Special Event K5P * Satellite Shorts From All Over SB SAT @ AMSAT $ANS-155.01 ANS-155 AMSAT News Service Weekly Bulletins AMSAT News Service Bulletin 155.01 >From AMSAT HQ SILVER SPRING, MD. June 3, 2012 To All RADIO AMATEURS BID: $ANS-155.01 - STEM Education Identified as Critical for Continued Rides to Space The AMSAT Forum at the 2012 Dayton Hamvention featured news of the educational opportunities for AMSAT to contribute to the innovation in attracting and retaining students in science, technology, engin- eering and mathematics, or STEM, disciplines. Educators have identi- fied STEM programs as a priority in strengthening the Nation's future workforce. "Education is important to us", said AMSAT Vice-President Educational Relations Mark Hammond N8MH, "It's a part of our mission and vision." Mark noted several key points of AMSAT's support for STEM education: + AMSAT is a non-profit volunteer organization which designs, builds and operates experimental satellites and promotes space education. + AMSAT works in partnership with government, industry, educational institutions and fellow amateur radio societies. + AMSAT encourages technical and scientific innovation, and promotes the training and development of skilled satellite and ground sys- tem designers and operators. As evidenced by this year's acceptance of AMSAT's Project Fox cubesat in the NASA "Educational Launch of NanoSat", the ELaNa program, we were selected on our merit in support of NASA strategic and educa- tional goals. Education is quickly becoming critical for our ride to space. The recently formed Educational Partnership between AMSAT and ARRL, including NASA is looking for help. We need to develop an education program on the ground starting now. We have resources already avail- able for STEM education in both the K-12 classroom and at the Uni- versity level while our satellite builders work on the next flight. For example, the huge collection of telemetry data collected during the recent ARISSat-1 flight is available on our FTP server. This data presents an opportunity for the utilization of satellite data in the classroom (through plotting, graphing, analyzing). An immediate need is for volunteers to collect and organize existing STEM related lesson plans and ideas from the web, useful to K-12 edu- cators and relevant to amateur radio and satellite. Critical steps such as this will allow ARISSat-1 telemetry data to be used in the classroom. Similar lesson plans and ideas can be used for educational purposes in future satellite missions, such as Fox-1 and Fox-2. To support this effort specific tasks have been identified and now volunteers are needed to support: + Educators: We need lesson plans/ideas related to satellites and amateur radio. ARISSat-1 telemetry data needs to be used in the classroom! + Educators: sign up for ARRL Teacher's Institute program! + Web content person for AMSAT's education web pages. o Also to maintain a calendar of amateur radio youth events. + Archivist/publicist of satellite educational activities (photos, stories for AMSAT Journal, press, videos). + Mentors and ground station operators (with equipment!) for ARISS contacts. + Look for opportunities to engage youth, and document it (photos, articles, AMSAT Journal, press). To volunteer contact Mark directly at n8mh at amsat.org. The AMSAT-EDU mailing list is the place to exchange education project ideas and to learn how to help with our educational outreach. Informati
[amsat-bb] Re: European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations
Hi Peter, DB2OS I was reading the document in particular point 2.2.2 Communication and 2.2.3 but in my opinion the Radio Hams are off side because everyting has been already designed and in my opinion there is no room available on the Lander for a Moon-Earth experimental communication transponder in our L band and S band because our antennas are too big. Since the main 7.2 and 8.5 GHz X band High Gain Antennas of the Lander are oriented toward the Earth in a fixed position to compensate the pointing for libration probably only a 5 watt pep and a circularly polarized horn on our 10.5 GHz should be possible. 73" de i8CVS Domenico - Original Message - From: "Peter Guelzow" To: Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 12:57 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations Hi together, Please also have a look at this document: http://wsn.spaceflight.esa.int/docs/lunarlander/LunarLander_EIDA_CDI_230512. pdf in particular see point 2.2.2 Communication and 2.2.3: "Visibility of the Earth from the landing site imposes the following constraint: • communications shall only be possible within a 13.7 day (TBC) window each month, and shall depend on the availability of the ground station." further: "the mean power available for an individual payload is expected not to exceed 20W" 73s Peter DB2OS On 03.06.2012 00:29, Peter Guelzow wrote: > Check also this discussion from James Miller, G3RUH: > > http://www.amsat.org/amsat/articles/g3ruh/110.html > > > 73s Peter, DB2OS ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations of Interest
Yikes. Comes from typing word fill and not paying all that much attentionplanting my wife's trees DEPLOYABLE. Not deplorable. The editor regrets the error. Robert WB5MZO Sent from my iPad On Jun 2, 2012, at 14:26, pughkei...@cs.com wrote: > Do you really mean a "deplorable" antenna? > > 73 - Keith, W5IU > -Original Message- > From: Robert G Oler > To: i8cvs > Cc: Amsat - BBs > Sent: Sat, Jun 2, 2012 1:44 pm > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations of > Interest > > It is to bad that the concentration couldn't be on something clever that > would > earn us some mass for a transponder. Like say some sort antenna that is > deplorable and would massively increase the data rates.. Like an inflatable. > Robert WB5MZO > > Sent from my iPad > > On May 31, 2012, at 12:46, "i8cvs" wrote: > > > Hi Stefan, VE4NSA > > > > I believe that ESA is interested to have a payload placed on the moon only > > to > make important and particular experiments that are impossible to manage to > put > something into earth orbit. > > > > The capability of an Amateur Radio transponder to communicate between us or > for educational outreach and training opportunities associated with it can be > experimented even placing a transponder on earth orbit or on top of a hill. > > > > As you realize for the moment ESA seems to be not to much interested on > satellite amateur radio P3E and scientific probe P5A to Mars,figure out to > place > an amateur radio transponder on the Moon. > > > > 73" de > > > > i8CVS Domenico > > - Original Message - > > From: Stefan Wagener > > To: i8cvs > > Cc: Amsat - BBs > > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:48 PM > > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations of > Interest > > > > > > Yes Domenico, > > > > > > You are correct. However, that particular ESA proposal is not about > > putting > it into orbit. It is an opportunity to have a payload placed on the moon. > Once > ESA has a proposal to put something into orbit, by all means. > > > > > > Hope this helps, > > > > > > Stefan > > > > > > On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 9:31 AM, i8cvs wrote: > > > >Hi Stefan, VE4NSA > > > >It does not make sense to put a transponder on the Moon just for the > > simple > >reason that it's much more, simple and cheap to put it into earth orbit. > > > >73" de > > > >i8CVS Domenico > > > > > >- Original Message - > >From: "Stefan Wagener" > >To: "Amsat - BBs" > > > >Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:06 AM > >Subject: [amsat-bb] European Lunar Lander - Call for Declarations of > >Interest > > > > > > > >> ESA has posted a very unique opportunity: > >> > >> http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/HSF_Research/SEMGUMZWD2H_2.html > >> > >> Wouldn't it be great if the key AMSAT organizations put a proposal > >together > >> to put a ham radio transponder on the moon. It can have all the cool > >> educational outreach and training opportunities associated with it. Let's > >> encourage the AMSAT leadership teams to move quickly. We can do it, don't > >> you think? > >> > >> Stefan VE4NSA > > > >> ___ > >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > > > > > ___ > > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > ___ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Icom Power Socket
Hi Guys, Can anyone point me to a supplier for the (Molex?) plug and socket that is used to connect the DC Power into the back of the IC-821. I want to produce a (decent!) break out box to switch the output of an IC- 821's DC PSU ( (Icom PS-85) to alternative switchable circuits - both Icom and others.. (Suspect Icoms price can be bettered and its probably a 'standard'!!) Thanks Fred Kennedy ZL1BYP ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
