[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of Moon Landings

[John Marranca, Jr]

Good Morning, all...

Just adding my 2 cents worth...I was a skeptic as well previously.  There
are numerous reasons why it would seem that humans COULDN'T make it to the
moon and back with such crude technology.  I grew up hearing the
storiesbut never quite believed.

That was until I read this the other day:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8157368.stm

With proof, there is truth.

John KB2HSH

-- 
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BN Systems, Inc
Orchard Park, NY
(716)972-2006
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[n0jy]

Interesting how technology advances change our views, too.  Who would have
said "how hard can it be" to go to the moon 40 years ago?!

> On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 15:42 -0700, Dale Hershberger wrote:
>>
>> I for one wholeheartedly agree.  Lets get on with real things,
>> satellites and radios.
>
> I've got a better idea.  Let's start a lunar exploration project.  We've
> had forty years of advances in materials science.  We have all that
> experience to build on.
>
> Best way to prove the lunar naysayers wrong?  Develop a spacecraft that
> can travel to the moon.  How hard can it be?
>
> Gordon 2M0YEQ
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF]

But we've yet to develop a satellite that can carry people.
We have problem getting an affordable launch for something the size and weight 
of a corn flakes box, I doubt we can 
launch something the size of a small car.

Gordon JC Pearce wrote:

> 
> I've got a better idea.  Let's start a lunar exploration project.  We've
> had forty years of advances in materials science.  We have all that
> experience to build on.
> 
> Best way to prove the lunar naysayers wrong?  Develop a spacecraft that
> can travel to the moon.  How hard can it be?
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[Gordon JC Pearce]

On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 15:42 -0700, Dale Hershberger wrote:
>   
> I for one wholeheartedly agree.  Lets get on with real things, 
> satellites and radios.

I've got a better idea.  Let's start a lunar exploration project.  We've
had forty years of advances in materials science.  We have all that
experience to build on.

Best way to prove the lunar naysayers wrong?  Develop a spacecraft that
can travel to the moon.  How hard can it be?

Gordon 2M0YEQ

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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[Jim Jerzycke]

Not so much the FCC as our wonderful public "Education" system that seems to 
have forgotten how to instill critical thinking in their students.
Jim  KQ6EA

--- On Tue, 7/21/09, Joe  wrote:

From: Joe 
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings!
To: "STeve Andre'" , amsat-bb@amsat.org
Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 9:47 AM

Why does everyone continue to try to talk to this Brain dead person.

it really goes to show how the FCC has dumbed down the tests.

geez

STeve Andre' wrote:

>On Tuesday 21 July 2009 02:52:08 Edward Cole wrote:
>  
>
>>>LeRoy,
>>>
>>>I'm not sure how you can have a source other than NASA, other than two
>>>hams who made independant recordings of Apollo transmissions.  In 1971
>>>(summer issue) a QST article talks of Dick Knadle(sp?) KRIW who got some,
>>>and another ham, I believe W4HHK received signals as well.
>>>
>>>I'd also bet the Russian space agency has stuff.
>>>
>>>Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you have questions about any
>>>"fakery" of moon landings, find the Myth Busters TV show.  They did a
>>>*really* good job of debunking several myths about how things were faked.
>>>
>>>I do not find this discussion OT for Amsat-bb, because this affects us. 
>>>It erodes the effort of tens of thousands of technical people, and has
>>>ripple effects for the USA, far beyond the original topic.
>>>
>>>--STeve Andre'
>>>wb8wsf  en82
>>>      
>>>
>[snip]
>  
>
>>Steve you can add my witness of the Lunar orbiter signal on S-band
>>received on a ten foot comm dish that my supervisor with JPL set up
>>in his yard using a diode mixer and a microwave signal generator for
>>LO.  The signal exhibited expected Doppler shift and every 20-minutes
>>or so it dropped out (occulted by the Moon as the orbiter orbited
>>behind).  This was not Apollo-11 but one of the other missions
>>afterward, to memory (long time ago - 1971).  We both worked at
>>Goldstone tracking facility back then.  We only detected the carrier
>>since the dish was insufficient size for recovering the modulated signal.
>>
>>73, Ed - KL7UW (then K8MWA/K6)
>>    
>>
>
>Wow...  I have never talked with someone who heard "raw" signals from
>Apollo before.  It must have been an amazing experience.  So not quite
>enough to decode it, but enough to get the carrier.  I'm sure noise has
>never been as exciting, before or since. ;-)
>
>Thanks for this.
>
>--STeve Andre'
>wb8wsf  en82
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>
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[Joe]

Why does everyone continue to try to talk to this Brain dead person.

it really goes to show how the FCC has dumbed down the tests.

geez

STeve Andre' wrote:

>On Tuesday 21 July 2009 02:52:08 Edward Cole wrote:
>  
>
>>>LeRoy,
>>>
>>>I'm not sure how you can have a source other than NASA, other than two
>>>hams who made independant recordings of Apollo transmissions.  In 1971
>>>(summer issue) a QST article talks of Dick Knadle(sp?) KRIW who got some,
>>>and another ham, I believe W4HHK received signals as well.
>>>
>>>I'd also bet the Russian space agency has stuff.
>>>
>>>Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you have questions about any
>>>"fakery" of moon landings, find the Myth Busters TV show.  They did a
>>>*really* good job of debunking several myths about how things were faked.
>>>
>>>I do not find this discussion OT for Amsat-bb, because this affects us. 
>>>It erodes the effort of tens of thousands of technical people, and has
>>>ripple effects for the USA, far beyond the original topic.
>>>
>>>--STeve Andre'
>>>wb8wsf  en82
>>>  
>>>
>[snip]
>  
>
>>Steve you can add my witness of the Lunar orbiter signal on S-band
>>received on a ten foot comm dish that my supervisor with JPL set up
>>in his yard using a diode mixer and a microwave signal generator for
>>LO.  The signal exhibited expected Doppler shift and every 20-minutes
>>or so it dropped out (occulted by the Moon as the orbiter orbited
>>behind).  This was not Apollo-11 but one of the other missions
>>afterward, to memory (long time ago - 1971).  We both worked at
>>Goldstone tracking facility back then.  We only detected the carrier
>>since the dish was insufficient size for recovering the modulated signal.
>>
>>73, Ed - KL7UW (then K8MWA/K6)
>>
>>
>
>Wow...  I have never talked with someone who heard "raw" signals from
>Apollo before.  It must have been an amazing experience.  So not quite
>enough to decode it, but enough to get the carrier.  I'm sure noise has
>never been as exciting, before or since. ;-)
>
>Thanks for this.
>
>--STeve Andre'
>wb8wsf  en82
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>
>
>
>
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>05:58:00
>
>  
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[STeve Andre']

On Tuesday 21 July 2009 02:52:08 Edward Cole wrote:
> >LeRoy,
> >
> >I'm not sure how you can have a source other than NASA, other than two
> > hams who made independant recordings of Apollo transmissions.  In 1971
> > (summer issue) a QST article talks of Dick Knadle(sp?) KRIW who got some,
> > and another ham, I believe W4HHK received signals as well.
> >
> >I'd also bet the Russian space agency has stuff.
> >
> >Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you have questions about any
> >"fakery" of moon landings, find the Myth Busters TV show.  They did a
> > *really* good job of debunking several myths about how things were faked.
> >
> >I do not find this discussion OT for Amsat-bb, because this affects us. 
> > It erodes the effort of tens of thousands of technical people, and has
> > ripple effects for the USA, far beyond the original topic.
> >
> >--STeve Andre'
> >wb8wsf  en82
[snip]
> Steve you can add my witness of the Lunar orbiter signal on S-band
> received on a ten foot comm dish that my supervisor with JPL set up
> in his yard using a diode mixer and a microwave signal generator for
> LO.  The signal exhibited expected Doppler shift and every 20-minutes
> or so it dropped out (occulted by the Moon as the orbiter orbited
> behind).  This was not Apollo-11 but one of the other missions
> afterward, to memory (long time ago - 1971).  We both worked at
> Goldstone tracking facility back then.  We only detected the carrier
> since the dish was insufficient size for recovering the modulated signal.
>
> 73, Ed - KL7UW (then K8MWA/K6)

Wow...  I have never talked with someone who heard "raw" signals from
Apollo before.  It must have been an amazing experience.  So not quite
enough to decode it, but enough to get the carrier.  I'm sure noise has
never been as exciting, before or since. ;-)

Thanks for this.

--STeve Andre'
wb8wsf  en82
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[Edward Cole]

>
>LeRoy,
>
>I'm not sure how you can have a source other than NASA, other than two hams
>who made independant recordings of Apollo transmissions.  In 1971 (summer
>issue) a QST article talks of Dick Knadle(sp?) KRIW who got some, and another
>ham, I believe W4HHK received signals as well.
>
>I'd also bet the Russian space agency has stuff.
>
>Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you have questions about any
>"fakery" of moon landings, find the Myth Busters TV show.  They did a *really*
>good job of debunking several myths about how things were faked.
>
>I do not find this discussion OT for Amsat-bb, because this affects us.  It
>erodes the effort of tens of thousands of technical people, and has ripple
>effects for the USA, far beyond the original topic.
>
>--STeve Andre'
>wb8wsf  en82
>___
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Steve you can add my witness of the Lunar orbiter signal on S-band 
received on a ten foot comm dish that my supervisor with JPL set up 
in his yard using a diode mixer and a microwave signal generator for 
LO.  The signal exhibited expected Doppler shift and every 20-minutes 
or so it dropped out (occulted by the Moon as the orbiter orbited 
behind).  This was not Apollo-11 but one of the other missions 
afterward, to memory (long time ago - 1971).  We both worked at 
Goldstone tracking facility back then.  We only detected the carrier 
since the dish was insufficient size for recovering the modulated signal.

73, Ed - KL7UW (then K8MWA/K6) 

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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[Dale Hershberger]

Jim Leder wrote:
> AMEN.
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Darin Cowan" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 7:17 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Evidence of moon landings!
>
>
>   
>> Which is more reasonable:
>>
>> 1. That a 40 year grand conspiracy involving literally thousands of people
>> from multiple, antagonistic countries, could pull off and maintain the
>> illusion that nobody has walked on the moon.  Recognizing that the Soviet
>> Union and China both would have benefitted greatly for exposing such 
>> fakery,
>> and recognizing that the US government by itself - let alone all the other
>> people, organizations, and governments that have a stake in it - can't 
>> keep
>> even a little secret like "I went to Argentina to get a piece on the 
>> side".
>> Recognizing all the photographs, the rocks, the satellites, the orbiters,
>> the explosion of technology and so forth.  Recognizing that the 
>> governments
>> in question have been unable, in the same time period, to keep their 
>> leaders
>> from being shot at by simple lunatics, and that those governments haven't
>> even been able to construct a convincing lie about WMD in the middle-east:
>> something that really, everyone would believe with little effort?
>>
>> OR
>>
>> 2. That men have actually been on the moon as reported?
>>
>> The whole idea that the moon landings were faked is, quite simply,
>> weapons-grade stupid.  It flies in the face of logic and reason.  No
>> moon-conspiracy theorist has ever been able to produce a shred of evidence
>> that anything has been faked... a task that should be INCREDIBLY easy 
>> given
>> the number of people that have to be involved to this day.  Scientists, on
>> the other hand have produced photos, rocks, and mountains of other 
>> evidence,
>> not the least of which is the dozen people who have actually been there, a
>> good many of which are still walking around.
>>
>> People who still tout this moon-landing-fake conspiracy are nutters, plain
>> and simple.  There are many places I'd expect to find woo-woo conspiracy
>> believers, but never on the AMSAT list.
>>
>> Can we please put this issue to bed and go back to satellites and radio 
>> now.
>>
>> -VE3OIJ
>>
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>
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>   
I for one wholeheartedly agree.  Lets get on with real things, 
satellites and radios.

Dale - kl7xj
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[Jim Leder]

AMEN.

- Original Message - 
From: "Darin Cowan" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 7:17 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Evidence of moon landings!


> Which is more reasonable:
>
> 1. That a 40 year grand conspiracy involving literally thousands of people
> from multiple, antagonistic countries, could pull off and maintain the
> illusion that nobody has walked on the moon.  Recognizing that the Soviet
> Union and China both would have benefitted greatly for exposing such 
> fakery,
> and recognizing that the US government by itself - let alone all the other
> people, organizations, and governments that have a stake in it - can't 
> keep
> even a little secret like "I went to Argentina to get a piece on the 
> side".
> Recognizing all the photographs, the rocks, the satellites, the orbiters,
> the explosion of technology and so forth.  Recognizing that the 
> governments
> in question have been unable, in the same time period, to keep their 
> leaders
> from being shot at by simple lunatics, and that those governments haven't
> even been able to construct a convincing lie about WMD in the middle-east:
> something that really, everyone would believe with little effort?
>
> OR
>
> 2. That men have actually been on the moon as reported?
>
> The whole idea that the moon landings were faked is, quite simply,
> weapons-grade stupid.  It flies in the face of logic and reason.  No
> moon-conspiracy theorist has ever been able to produce a shred of evidence
> that anything has been faked... a task that should be INCREDIBLY easy 
> given
> the number of people that have to be involved to this day.  Scientists, on
> the other hand have produced photos, rocks, and mountains of other 
> evidence,
> not the least of which is the dozen people who have actually been there, a
> good many of which are still walking around.
>
> People who still tout this moon-landing-fake conspiracy are nutters, plain
> and simple.  There are many places I'd expect to find woo-woo conspiracy
> believers, but never on the AMSAT list.
>
> Can we please put this issue to bed and go back to satellites and radio 
> now.
>
> -VE3OIJ
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[Roger Kolakowski]

Hi Tim...

I don't need an apology, you have done too much good work for the hobby to let 
an errant text message ruin your reputation...if you send him the card I will 
be happy  ;-)

I was just trying to wave the caution flag...

It used to be only Politics and Religion you couldn't discuss on ham 
radio...now it includes HEO vs LEO and Lunar landing realities...

Roger
WA1KAT
  - Original Message - 
  From: n...@bellsouth.net 
  To: Roger Kolakowski ; amsat-bb@amsat.org 
  Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 11:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings!


  My aplogies, Mr. Kolakowski, to you personally and to everyone on the board. 
No real threats were intended. Apparently my sarcasm was not well-taken - at 
least not by you.

  I remain open to anyone who can explain the reasons why the two issues I 
raised are as they are - and ask that such explanations be made off this BB.

  Again, my apologies to all.
-- Original message from "Roger Kolakowski" 
: -- 


> Now it's not only off topic...it becoming personal and threatening... 
> 
> (The moderator must be on vacation...) 
> 
> Roger 
> WA1KAT 
> 
> 
> > Leroy, 
> > 
> > Should I wait until you're satisfied that the Apollo 11 mission and all 
> surrounding the Apollo program was NOT, collectively, a hoax before I 
mail 
> your QSL card 
> 
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[STeve Andre']

On Monday 20 July 2009 10:27:12 kd8...@aol.com wrote:
> It wouldn't be as hard to hoax something like that at all -
>
> And yes - I know what I am going to say will make people think that I got
> the idea from a movie. I did not.
>
> But the movie Capricorn One (Which was made late 70s early 80s I believe)
> is a movie about a manned program to mars - the program had problems and it
> was decided to rather then have it fail - Nasa would fake it - there were
> problems of course with faking it as well - namely the astronauts where
> going to play along until the space craft ended up being destroyed because
> of the heat shield - so the astronauts had to be killed.  Anyways, total
> fiction - I know it I understand. But in the movie - key personnel in Nasa
> knew about the hoax - knew what was going on and miss directed the
> underlings - at one point - a man working in control runs and program on
> his own - saying the messages couldn't be coming from mars the signals were
> too close - the director (who is in on the hoax) asks which console he is
> on - and then states oh yes we have been having problems with that console
> - the next day the worker is assigned a different job - but will not let
> well enough alone - speaks to a reported (movie remember) - and is then
> eliminated -
>
> Point is - if only the high up know about the hoax and the miss-direction -
> then a hoax on a massive scale can be pulled off -
>
> Now - as I said in one of my other posts - I still have questions -  but
> the gentleman who has been emailing me has made me think a little more on
> what was going on.
>
> Is it a hoax? I don't know I said that before.
> I would like to think not, but I still have questions about it.
> Did I just give you a movie plot for me reasons it could have been - Yes
> and I fully realize it was a movie plot. And therefore not anyway real
> life. Just interesting That is all I am saying. Here - I don't like the
> idea of all the information coming from one source - more sources are
> needed. I am open to the possibility I am wrong - I just want to see prove
> from a source other then Nasa
[snip]

LeRoy,

I'm not sure how you can have a source other than NASA, other than two hams
who made independant recordings of Apollo transmissions.  In 1971 (summer
issue) a QST article talks of Dick Knadle(sp?) KRIW who got some, and another
ham, I believe W4HHK received signals as well.

I'd also bet the Russian space agency has stuff.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you have questions about any
"fakery" of moon landings, find the Myth Busters TV show.  They did a *really*
good job of debunking several myths about how things were faked.

I do not find this discussion OT for Amsat-bb, because this affects us.  It
erodes the effort of tens of thousands of technical people, and has ripple
effects for the USA, far beyond the original topic.

--STeve Andre'
wb8wsf  en82
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[Gordon JC Pearce]

On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 14:27 +, kd8...@aol.com wrote:

> Point is - if only the high up know about the hoax and the
> miss-direction - then a hoax on a massive scale can be pulled off 

That unfortunate physics thing gets in your way though.  How would you
build a stage large enough to film it on that could pumped down to a
hard vacuum?

There is no credible evidence that it was faked, and lots of credible
evidence that it would have been impossible to fake.

Gordon 2M0YEQ


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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[David - KG4ZLB]

See


  Moon astronauts urge Mars mission

here! 

Rumours that Stephen Spielberg has been signed up to provide the special 
effects are currently unsubstantiated but obviously the BBC are already 
on board.

:-P

David
KG4ZLB


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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[n3tl]

My aplogies, Mr. Kolakowski, to you personally and to everyone on the board. No 
real threats were intended. Apparently my sarcasm was not well-taken - at least 
not by you.

I remain open to anyone who can explain the reasons why the two issues I raised 
are as they are - and ask that such explanations be made off this BB.

Again, my apologies to all.
-- Original message from "Roger Kolakowski" : 
-- 


> Now it's not only off topic...it becoming personal and threatening... 
> 
> (The moderator must be on vacation...) 
> 
> Roger 
> WA1KAT 
> 
> 
> > Leroy, 
> > 
> > Should I wait until you're satisfied that the Apollo 11 mission and all 
> surrounding the Apollo program was NOT, collectively, a hoax before I mail 
> your QSL card 
> 
> ___ 
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[kd8bxp]

Roger,

I didn't take it like that at all - I have upset the man - and didn't mean to 

I apologized to him in private - now I will do it in public

Tim, I am sorry that I offended you. Please accept my applogie. It was not my 
intention to offend anyone.  So if I also offend someone else that is not what 
I was doing or my intention. Please email me off list. And we can talk more

LeRoy, KD8BXP
http://www.HamOhio.com
--Original Message--
From: Roger Kolakowski
Sender: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings!
Sent: Jul 20, 2009 12:25 PM

Now it's not only off topic...it becoming personal and threatening...

(The moderator must be on vacation...)

Roger
WA1KAT


> Leroy,
>
> Should I wait until you're satisfied that the Apollo 11 mission and all
surrounding the Apollo program was NOT, collectively, a hoax before I mail
your QSL card

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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[Roger Kolakowski]

Now it's not only off topic...it becoming personal and threatening...

(The moderator must be on vacation...)

Roger
WA1KAT


> Leroy,
>
> Should I wait until you're satisfied that the Apollo 11 mission and all
surrounding the Apollo program was NOT, collectively, a hoax before I mail
your QSL card

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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[n3tl]

Leroy,

Should I wait until you're satisfied that the Apollo 11 mission and all 
surrounding the Apollo program was NOT, collectively, a hoax before I mail your 
QSL card for the contact you seemed excited to make yesterday on SO-50 with K5E?

I mean ... who would celebrate a hoax?

I was born in 1956 and grew up in the middle of the Cold War and the Space 
Race. I am insulted by the "moon deniers," as an earlier poster characterized 
them. 

They confound me on two levels:

1 - Collectively, they fail to mention that America's one true adversary in the 
race to the moon - Russia - has never raised an iota of skepticism over the 
Apollo program's validity. Given the access to the audio, photographic and 
video record of the program, the fact that the Apollo program's achievements 
stand without challenge backed by significant evidence on the part of the 
single entity with the most to gain by exposing such a charade suggests there 
is nothing to expose. I suppose you can claim that Russia was in on it, too 
(i.e., "if only the high up know about the hoax and the miss-direction - then a 
hoax on a massive scale can be pulled off"). Yeah ... right. 

2 - Collectively, you fail to include the deaths of Gus Grissom, Ed White and 
Roger Chaffee in the Apollo 1 capsule. Since the Apollo program succeeded in 
completing multiple moon landings, their deaths cannot be attributed to a 
"Capricorn One scenario." How and why did that tragic accident become a part of 
the hoax? Were Grissom, White and Chaffee the inaugural members of the federal 
witness protection program? Oh, wait ... their deaths triggered the launch of 
the hoax because of the dangers involved. Yeah ... right.

Let me know about that QSL.

73,

Tim - N3TL
K5E - The 40th Anniversary Apollo 11 Satellite Special Event

-- Original message from kd8...@aol.com: -- 


> It wouldn't be as hard to hoax something like that at all - 
> 
> And yes - I know what I am going to say will make people think that I got the 
> idea from a movie. I did not. 
> 
> But the movie Capricorn One (Which was made late 70s early 80s I believe) is 
> a 
> movie about a manned program to mars - the program had problems and it was 
> decided to rather then have it fail - Nasa would fake it - there were 
> problems 
> of course with faking it as well - namely the astronauts where going to play 
> along until the space craft ended up being destroyed because of the heat 
> shield 
> - so the astronauts had to be killed. Anyways, total fiction - I know it I 
> understand. But in the movie - key personnel in Nasa knew about the hoax - 
> knew 
> what was going on and miss directed the underlings - at one point - a man 
> working in control runs and program on his own - saying the messages couldn't 
> be 
> coming from mars the signals were too close - the director (who is in on the 
> hoax) asks which console he is on - and then states oh yes we have been 
> having 
> problems with that console - the next day the worker is assigned a different 
> job 
> - but will not let well enough alone - speaks to a reported (movie remember) 
> - 
> and is then eliminated - 
> 
> Point is - if only the high up know about the hoax and the miss-direction - 
> then 
> a hoax on a massive scale can be pulled off - 
> 
> Now - as I said in one of my other posts - I still have questions - but the 
> gentleman who has been emailing me has made me think a little more on what 
> was 
> going on. 
> 
> Is it a hoax? I don't know I said that before. 
> I would like to think not, but I still have questions about it. 
> Did I just give you a movie plot for me reasons it could have been - Yes and 
> I 
> fully realize it was a movie plot. And therefore not anyway real life. Just 
> interesting 
> That is all I am saying. Here - I don't like the idea of all the information 
> coming from one source - more sources are needed. 
> I am open to the possibility I am wrong - I just want to see prove from a 
> source 
> other then Nasa 
> 
> LeRoy, KD8BXP 
> http://www.HamOhio.com 
> 
> --Original Message-- 
> From: Joe 
> Sender: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org 
> To: William Leijenaar 
> Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org 
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings! 
> Sent: Jul 20, 2009 10:04 AM 
> 
> Explain me this,,For something as big as NASA to be a hoax there would 
> be 10s of thousands of people in on it for 50+ years. and not one of 
> them has talked? Thats unbelivable. Take crop circles, which is a fairly 
> obvious hoax, there was 2 old drunks in england doing them and they 
> talked about it and showed how they did them after just a couple of 
> years. Yet there are people who actually still think that flying s

[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[Ben Jackson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Can we kill this thread please? This is insanely off topic...

Besides everyone knows that NASA is a front by the trilateral commission
to keep us from looking into Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster.

- --
Ben Jackson - N1WBV - New Bedford, MA
bbj  innismir.net - http://www.innismir.net/
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF]

A lot of people believe that the existence of God is a hoax and that has been 
going for several thousand years without a 
conclusive outcome.

Joe wrote:
> Explain me this,,For something as big as NASA to be a hoax there would 
> be 10s of thousands of people in on it for 50+ years. and not one of 
> them has talked? Thats unbelivable. Take crop circles, which is a fairly 
> obvious hoax, there was 2 old drunks in england doing them and they 
> talked about it and showed how they did them after just a couple of 
> years. Yet there are people who actually still think that flying saucers 
> are making them.
> 
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[kd8bxp]

It wouldn't be as hard to hoax something like that at all - 

And yes - I know what I am going to say will make people think that I got the 
idea from a movie. I did not.  

But the movie Capricorn One (Which was made late 70s early 80s I believe) is a 
movie about a manned program to mars - the program had problems and it was 
decided to rather then have it fail - Nasa would fake it - there were problems 
of course with faking it as well - namely the astronauts where going to play 
along until the space craft ended up being destroyed because of the heat shield 
- so the astronauts had to be killed.  Anyways, total fiction - I know it I 
understand. But in the movie - key personnel in Nasa knew about the hoax - knew 
what was going on and miss directed the underlings - at one point - a man 
working in control runs and program on his own - saying the messages couldn't 
be coming from mars the signals were too close - the director (who is in on the 
hoax) asks which console he is on - and then states oh yes we have been having 
problems with that console - the next day the worker is assigned a different 
job - but will not let well enough alone - speaks to a reported (movie 
remember) - and is then eliminated - 

Point is - if only the high up know about the hoax and the miss-direction - 
then a hoax on a massive scale can be pulled off -

Now - as I said in one of my other posts - I still have questions -  but the 
gentleman who has been emailing me has made me think a little more on what was 
going on.

Is it a hoax? I don't know I said that before. 
I would like to think not, but I still have questions about it. 
Did I just give you a movie plot for me reasons it could have been - Yes and I 
fully realize it was a movie plot. And therefore not anyway real life. Just 
interesting
 That is all I am saying. Here - I don't like the idea of all the information 
coming from one source - more sources are needed. 
I am open to the possibility I am wrong - I just want to see prove from a 
source other then Nasa

LeRoy, KD8BXP
http://www.HamOhio.com

--Original Message--
From: Joe
Sender: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org
To: William Leijenaar
Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings!
Sent: Jul 20, 2009 10:04 AM

Explain me this,,For something as big as NASA to be a hoax there would 
be 10s of thousands of people in on it for 50+ years. and not one of 
them has talked? Thats unbelivable. Take crop circles, which is a fairly 
obvious hoax, there was 2 old drunks in england doing them and they 
talked about it and showed how they did them after just a couple of 
years. Yet there are people who actually still think that flying saucers 
are making them.

William Leijenaar wrote:

>Hi AMSATs,
> 
>The news is full again of the moon landings, where NASA claims to have new 
>evidence, which makes me laugh again. I have the same idea like LeRoy, KD8BXP. 
>When the information is only from one source it is not reliable at all, every 
>scientist should know. 
> 
>This doesn't mean that I state no man has been on the moon, for me it is just 
>not clear.
>I would like to see pictures from another nations satellite, in higher 
>resolution. I believe we will soon know, as there are several countries 
>wanting to go to the moon. I am looking forward to their pictures and the 
>state of the equipment left on the moon, in case the landings were no film 
>studio work :o)
> 
>For the moment I keep it more close to the earth with my small transponder 
>work,
>Maybe in the future there will be a chance to have a moon-ponder :o)
> 
>73
>William
>---
>
>
>  
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>  
>
>
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.20/2250 - Release Date: 07/20/09 
>06:16:00
>
>  
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[Joe]

Explain me this,,For something as big as NASA to be a hoax there would 
be 10s of thousands of people in on it for 50+ years. and not one of 
them has talked? Thats unbelivable. Take crop circles, which is a fairly 
obvious hoax, there was 2 old drunks in england doing them and they 
talked about it and showed how they did them after just a couple of 
years. Yet there are people who actually still think that flying saucers 
are making them.

William Leijenaar wrote:

>Hi AMSATs,
> 
>The news is full again of the moon landings, where NASA claims to have new 
>evidence, which makes me laugh again. I have the same idea like LeRoy, KD8BXP. 
>When the information is only from one source it is not reliable at all, every 
>scientist should know. 
> 
>This doesn't mean that I state no man has been on the moon, for me it is just 
>not clear.
>I would like to see pictures from another nations satellite, in higher 
>resolution. I believe we will soon know, as there are several countries 
>wanting to go to the moon. I am looking forward to their pictures and the 
>state of the equipment left on the moon, in case the landings were no film 
>studio work :o)
> 
>For the moment I keep it more close to the earth with my small transponder 
>work,
>Maybe in the future there will be a chance to have a moon-ponder :o)
> 
>73
>William
>---
>
>
>  
>___
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>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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>  
>
>
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.20/2250 - Release Date: 07/20/09 
>06:16:00
>
>  
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[Robert Bruninga]

It sad...  These moon deniers are just continuing evidence of
the gowing ignorance coming out of our education system.  

They just believe anything that some smooth talking talk show
personality puts out there.  Since they can't make sense of the
real world through knowledge and learning and education, they
grab onto to crazy ideas of others so that they have some sense
of belonging to a community of like minded people.

There was a report last week about more than 50% of high school
graduates in Maryland have to take remedial math before they can
begin their college education.  And we are not talking about
high math, they can't even do basic math like multiply 7 x 9.
There is no value to arguing with these people or bringing them
fact, because they lack basic fundamentals of science and
physics on which to build understanding.

Witness the the growth of "belief" based knowledge as opposed to
science based knowldedge.  And attempts to make them equal...

I fear for our future.

Bob

> -Original Message-
> From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org 
> [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of John P.
Toscano
> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 7:53 AM
> To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings!
> 
> William Leijenaar wrote:
> 
> > The news is full again of the moon landings, where NASA 
> claims to have new evidence, which makes me laugh again. I 
> have the same idea like LeRoy, KD8BXP. When the information 
> is only from one source it is not reliable at all, every 
> scientist should know. 
> >  
> > This doesn't mean that I state no man has been on the moon, 
> for me it is just not clear.
> 
> William:
> 
> If one is truly skeptical of the truth of NASA's claims to 
> have landed 
> men on the moon and brought them back to earth safely, then 
> it is only 
> natural to claim that nothing that NASA says will be accepted 
> as proof 
> of having accomplished the deed. The only thing that NASA
could do to 
> convince a true skeptic is to land that person on the moon and
bring 
> them home again. (Wouldn't that be a treat?)
> 
> On the other hand, we should be clear that NASA is *NOT* 
> claiming that 
> these pictures are "evidence that they really were there".
They are 
> (rightly) very proud of the extreme resolution of the pictures
coming 
> from the new Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO), and wanted to
"show 
> off" how good the pictures are. Of course, they chose to 
> image targets 
> that would pique the interest of as many folks as possible.
For that 
> reason, choosing to show photographs of the moon landing sites
surely 
> fulfills the criterion of generating lots of interest.
> 
> You are certainly entitled to your disbelief. But attributing
these 
> photos to a claim by NASA as evidence of the moon landings is 
> a little 
> bit too negative for my taste. I think that they are fully 
> aware of the 
> fact that any "proof" they could provide would be discounted
by the 
> skeptics because of its source. The web pages I saw never 
> said anything 
> about offering proof of prior successful landings on the 
> moon. They are 
> simply "showing off" their latest interesting photos.
> 
> By the way, do you also believe that all of the fantastic 
> pictures from 
> the Hubble Space Telescope were created in Photoshop instead
of being 
> real images of far away space objects? Oh, sorry, that's a bit

> off-topic, and only a rhetorical question. No need to reply to
that.
> 
> > I would like to see pictures from another nations 
> satellite, in higher resolution. I believe we will soon know, 
> as there are several countries wanting to go to the moon. I 
> am looking forward to their pictures and the state of the 
> equipment left on the moon, in case the landings were no film 
> studio work :o)
> 
> I, too, would welcome more pictures! (See, it really is an 
> interesting 
> target to photograph!)
> 
> > For the moment I keep it more close to the earth with my 
> small transponder work,
> 
> The AMSAT community is indeed highly indebted to you for your 
> hard work 
> in this area. Thank you very much for your efforts in making
small 
> linear transponders for satellites.
> 
> > Maybe in the future there will be a chance to have a
moon-ponder :o)
> 
> Maybe, and maybe not. But if no one ever dreams of it, it 
> will certainly 
> never come to pass. Wanting to take the journey is the very
first of 
> many, many steps in the journey, but one that is not optional
if the 
> journey is ever going to be undertaken.
> 
> 73 de WØJT
> ___
> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org.

[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[kd8bxp]

Hello - to all and to the group

I have been having a very interesting email conversation with a gentelman, who 
truely has given me a lot to think about

This man doesn't know me from adam, and therefore I believe he is telling me 
what he personally saw - I am not going to say his name or call I don't know if 
he would want that and out of respect to him I just willnt do that.

I did tell him that I still have questions reguarding the moon walk -  but that 
I will accept what he saw as face vaule. 

And he does seem to have some knowledge on the subject - I google some of what 
he said and was able to find some of what he told me

Do I know for sure that someone walked on the moon? NO 
I would like to think Nasa and the US didn't perpetrate the biggest hoax in the 
world. But time will surely tell
I still want to see or have present something independant from Nasa - so far 
still the only source releasing pictures

I am openned minded about this - and honestly this is the conspirary thory I 
"buy" into maybe not for the same reasons as others.  

I am not really a conspirary person - some times you can really get caught up 
in the conspiary and miss the forest thou the tree as it were

OH BTW 
Off topic - yes I think the pictures from hubble are real. But we aren't 
talking about hubble and we are not talking about galaxies here we are talking 
about something much closer to home. And the only source of information for 
that right now is Nasa

LeRoy, KD8BXP
http://www.HamOhio.com
Sent on the Now Network� from my Sprint® BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: "John P. Toscano" 

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 06:53:26 
To: 
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings!


William Leijenaar wrote:

> The news is full again of the moon landings, where NASA claims to have new 
> evidence, which makes me laugh again. I have the same idea like LeRoy, 
> KD8BXP. When the information is only from one source it is not reliable at 
> all, every scientist should know. 
>  
> This doesn't mean that I state no man has been on the moon, for me it is just 
> not clear.

William:

If one is truly skeptical of the truth of NASA's claims to have landed 
men on the moon and brought them back to earth safely, then it is only 
natural to claim that nothing that NASA says will be accepted as proof 
of having accomplished the deed. The only thing that NASA could do to 
convince a true skeptic is to land that person on the moon and bring 
them home again. (Wouldn't that be a treat?)

On the other hand, we should be clear that NASA is *NOT* claiming that 
these pictures are "evidence that they really were there". They are 
(rightly) very proud of the extreme resolution of the pictures coming 
from the new Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO), and wanted to "show 
off" how good the pictures are. Of course, they chose to image targets 
that would pique the interest of as many folks as possible. For that 
reason, choosing to show photographs of the moon landing sites surely 
fulfills the criterion of generating lots of interest.

You are certainly entitled to your disbelief. But attributing these 
photos to a claim by NASA as evidence of the moon landings is a little 
bit too negative for my taste. I think that they are fully aware of the 
fact that any "proof" they could provide would be discounted by the 
skeptics because of its source. The web pages I saw never said anything 
about offering proof of prior successful landings on the moon. They are 
simply "showing off" their latest interesting photos.

By the way, do you also believe that all of the fantastic pictures from 
the Hubble Space Telescope were created in Photoshop instead of being 
real images of far away space objects? Oh, sorry, that's a bit 
off-topic, and only a rhetorical question. No need to reply to that.

> I would like to see pictures from another nations satellite, in higher 
> resolution. I believe we will soon know, as there are several countries 
> wanting to go to the moon. I am looking forward to their pictures and the 
> state of the equipment left on the moon, in case the landings were no film 
> studio work :o)

I, too, would welcome more pictures! (See, it really is an interesting 
target to photograph!)

> For the moment I keep it more close to the earth with my small transponder 
> work,

The AMSAT community is indeed highly indebted to you for your hard work 
in this area. Thank you very much for your efforts in making small 
linear transponders for satellites.

> Maybe in the future there will be a chance to have a moon-ponder :o)

Maybe, and maybe not. But if no one ever dreams of it, it will certainly 
never come to pass. Wanting to take the journey is the very first of 
many, many steps in the journey, but one that is not optional if the 
journey is ever going to be undertaken.

73 de WØJT

[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[John P. Toscano]

William Leijenaar wrote:

> The news is full again of the moon landings, where NASA claims to have new 
> evidence, which makes me laugh again. I have the same idea like LeRoy, 
> KD8BXP. When the information is only from one source it is not reliable at 
> all, every scientist should know. 
>  
> This doesn't mean that I state no man has been on the moon, for me it is just 
> not clear.

William:

If one is truly skeptical of the truth of NASA's claims to have landed 
men on the moon and brought them back to earth safely, then it is only 
natural to claim that nothing that NASA says will be accepted as proof 
of having accomplished the deed. The only thing that NASA could do to 
convince a true skeptic is to land that person on the moon and bring 
them home again. (Wouldn't that be a treat?)

On the other hand, we should be clear that NASA is *NOT* claiming that 
these pictures are "evidence that they really were there". They are 
(rightly) very proud of the extreme resolution of the pictures coming 
from the new Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO), and wanted to "show 
off" how good the pictures are. Of course, they chose to image targets 
that would pique the interest of as many folks as possible. For that 
reason, choosing to show photographs of the moon landing sites surely 
fulfills the criterion of generating lots of interest.

You are certainly entitled to your disbelief. But attributing these 
photos to a claim by NASA as evidence of the moon landings is a little 
bit too negative for my taste. I think that they are fully aware of the 
fact that any "proof" they could provide would be discounted by the 
skeptics because of its source. The web pages I saw never said anything 
about offering proof of prior successful landings on the moon. They are 
simply "showing off" their latest interesting photos.

By the way, do you also believe that all of the fantastic pictures from 
the Hubble Space Telescope were created in Photoshop instead of being 
real images of far away space objects? Oh, sorry, that's a bit 
off-topic, and only a rhetorical question. No need to reply to that.

> I would like to see pictures from another nations satellite, in higher 
> resolution. I believe we will soon know, as there are several countries 
> wanting to go to the moon. I am looking forward to their pictures and the 
> state of the equipment left on the moon, in case the landings were no film 
> studio work :o)

I, too, would welcome more pictures! (See, it really is an interesting 
target to photograph!)

> For the moment I keep it more close to the earth with my small transponder 
> work,

The AMSAT community is indeed highly indebted to you for your hard work 
in this area. Thank you very much for your efforts in making small 
linear transponders for satellites.

> Maybe in the future there will be a chance to have a moon-ponder :o)

Maybe, and maybe not. But if no one ever dreams of it, it will certainly 
never come to pass. Wanting to take the journey is the very first of 
many, many steps in the journey, but one that is not optional if the 
journey is ever going to be undertaken.

73 de WØJT
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[William Leijenaar]

Hi AMSATs,
 
The news is full again of the moon landings, where NASA claims to have new 
evidence, which makes me laugh again. I have the same idea like LeRoy, KD8BXP. 
When the information is only from one source it is not reliable at all, every 
scientist should know. 
 
This doesn't mean that I state no man has been on the moon, for me it is just 
not clear.
I would like to see pictures from another nations satellite, in higher 
resolution. I believe we will soon know, as there are several countries wanting 
to go to the moon. I am looking forward to their pictures and the state of the 
equipment left on the moon, in case the landings were no film studio work :o)
 
For the moment I keep it more close to the earth with my small transponder work,
Maybe in the future there will be a chance to have a moon-ponder :o)
 
73
William
---


  
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[Diane Bruce]

On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 02:43:53PM -0400, kc8...@cox.net wrote:
> NASA has more photos of other lunar landing sites...
>
>
> http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/multimedia/lroimages/apollosites.html

Very nice photos.

> Joe KC8RAN

And this article:

http://www.scientificblogging.com/science_20/apollo_11_hoax_sometimes_roswell_ends_well

- 73 Diane VA3DB
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[kd8bxp]

I really wanted to have an open mind about this but Just as I had figured - the 
picture was too grainy to make out any details, the picture was taken by a US 
rocket which means Nasa - and it happend to be at the same time the "real" 
landing took place.  Come on now, if Nasa is feeding you the only information 
about this and controls what pictures are released. Just how true do you think 
this is.

Grainy photos, Nasa rockets and Nasa control are not edviance of anything

Just my 2 cents. - and oh btw I never said we didn't goto the moon, just that a 
man Never walked on the moon. There is a hugh difference.  
I want edviance from a source other then a US rocket under Nasa control. 

And yes, I am only 38 yrs old, so I wasn't around for Apollo 11 and pretty 
young for the rest of the missions - I do remember seeing the TV footage. But I 
don't remember much else about.  Show me hard edviance that it happend I and I 
will be happy.  

They can't because it was staged. 

LeRoy, KD8BXP
http://www.HamOhio.com
--Original Message--
From: David - KG4ZLB
Sender: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
ReplyTo: kg4...@gmail.com
Subject: [amsat-bb]  Evidence of moon landings!
Sent: Jul 18, 2009 1:45 PM

..but there again, the BBC could also be in on this supposed 
hoax.yawn!

See for yourself .

73

-- 
David
KG4ZLB
www.kg4zlb.com




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Sent on the Now Network� from my Sprint® BlackBerry

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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[kc8ran]

NASA has more photos of other lunar landing sites...

 
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/multimedia/lroimages/apollosites.html


Joe KC8RAN

Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, it's a disturbing trend that 
happens too often.


On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 2:38 PM , racer5039 wrote:

> I say give them all a free ticket on the next Lander. If it don't make 
> the round trip. we will still come out ahead.
> Hum, any room for the "Green Party"??
> N0FJP
>
> - Original Message - From: "Diane Bruce" 
> To: 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 1:14 PM
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings!
>
>
>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 01:45:59PM -0400, David - KG4ZLB wrote:
>>> ..but there again, the BBC could also be in on this supposed
>>> hoax.yawn!
>>>
>>> See for yourself <http://foxyurl.com/oUk>.
>>
>> Wow! impressive photoshopping. ;-)
>>
>> (You'll never convince the hard core moon landing deniers with actual 
>> proof)
>>
>> - 73 Diane VA3DB
>> --
>> - d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db
>> ___
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>> author.
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>
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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[racer5039]

I say give them all a free ticket on the next Lander. If it don't make the 
round trip. we will still come out ahead.
Hum, any room for the "Green Party"??
N0FJP

- Original Message - 
From: "Diane Bruce" 
To: 
Cc: 
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 1:14 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings!


> On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 01:45:59PM -0400, David - KG4ZLB wrote:
>> ..but there again, the BBC could also be in on this supposed
>> hoax.yawn!
>>
>> See for yourself <http://foxyurl.com/oUk>.
>
> Wow! impressive photoshopping. ;-)
>
> (You'll never convince the hard core moon landing deniers with actual 
> proof)
>
> - 73 Diane VA3DB
> --
> - d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db
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> 

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[amsat-bb] Re: Evidence of moon landings....!

[Diane Bruce]

On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 01:45:59PM -0400, David - KG4ZLB wrote:
> ..but there again, the BBC could also be in on this supposed
> hoax.yawn!
>
> See for yourself .

Wow! impressive photoshopping. ;-)

(You'll never convince the hard core moon landing deniers with actual proof)

- 73 Diane VA3DB
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