[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
Hi, I think it takes about 2500m/s delta V to get from from LEO to a GTO. How feasible is it to use some type of an electric thruster (high specific impulse but low net thrust - eg a hall effect thruster or similar device) to slowly crawl up to GTO from LEO? I imagine that such a bird would charge it's batteries from solar power for most of an orbit, and would power the thruster from battery power during each perigee to slowly raise the apogee altitude. This would allow the use of a thruster with an peak electrical demand that is higher than the peak power generating capacity of the PV cells. 73 ZL2WRW Ross Whenmouth ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
I think it takes about 2500m/s delta V to get from from LEO to a GTO. How feasible is it to use some type of an electric thruster (high specific impulse but low net thrust - eg a hall effect thruster or similar device) to slowly crawl up to GTO from LEO? Hi Ross, Very feasible, there are a number of CubeSat projects that are trying to do exactly that. It seems the problem these projects have is getting a launch - it's not easy. For example two projects, Project Calliope and Euroluna, will both be testing Ion Motors. They booked a launch on the same rocket some 3 years ago now, as yet the rocket hasn't launched. http://amsat-uk.org/2012/06/20/interview-with-author-of-diy-satellite-platform/ http://amsat-uk.org/2013/03/01/ion-propulsion-euroluna-update-on-cubesat-ht-power-supply/ They seem they are plenty of other projects also planning to use CubeSat propulsion but in all cases launch availability/cost seems to be the limiting factor. I'm sure many of these projects will eventually get up there and who knows maybe one or two might even work as intended first time, others may need two or three launches before everything is perfected. I think over the course of the next 5-10 years we should have viable CubeSat propulsion systems that can go from a 310 km orbit to HEO, may take a few years of flight to get there but I'm sure it can be done. Of course they'd need to address the radiation issues that Brent mentioned, although a CubeSat that simply went from 310 km to a slightly less hazardous 1400 km orbit would be good. BTW the Lunar Pocket Spacecraft project, announced in June, is another one planning to use propulsion, see http://amsat-uk.org/2013/08/26/uk-radio-hams-lunar-cubesat-to-go-ahead/ 73 Trevor M5AKA ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
Rick, I have a back pocket slide for my presentation when someone asks about P3. It is titled The Future Isn't What It Used to Be! which walks through the technical and financial changes which have required the paradigm shift. 73s, Alan WA4SCA -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Rick Tejera Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 5:14 PM To: 'amsat-bb' Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites? Andrew, I for one do appreciate the work the board and other volunteers do. It's certainly something I'm far from qualified to do and to be honest, I probably would not want to. I came into the hobby long after the HEO era ended, so I can only live vicariously through others recollections and hope Someday That being said I also can see there is a new launch paradigm and we have to adjust to it. I commend the board for accepting this and doing what they can to adapt to the new reality. I imagine the engineering obstacles to get a 3u Cubesat that would be viable in HEO are many, which most likely put that well into the future. When I give my talk on Satellite engineering principles to local clubs, the most common question I get asked is When are we going to get an HEO? My Answer is Not for a long time. 73 and looking forward to Fox.. Rick Tejera (K7TEJ) Saguaro Astronomy Club www.saguaroastro.org Thunderbird Amateur Radio Club www.w7tbc.org -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Glasbrenner Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 7:22 AM To: Jeff Moore; amsat-bb Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites? On 8/30/2013 1:25 AM, Jeff Moore wrote: How about hitting up the new COMMERCIAL launchers like SpaceX?? Those guys originated as amateur rocketeers. I would hope that folks have a little more faith in AMSAT leadership as far as exploring opportunities for launches, even if you don't read about every contact or discussion in ANS or QST. SpaceX is Elon Musk's company, who founded PayPal and Tesla Motors as well. He's not an amateur anything; he's one of the most successful businessmen in the world, a real-life Tony Stark. AMSAT-DL has met with Space-X, and this fact has been published in many places (http://amsat.org/pipermail/ans/2010/000378.html). SpaceX rarely launches pure test flights, they normally have paying customers even on first launches. Secondary payloads are handled through Spaceflight Services, and their rates are published at http://spaceflightservices.com/pricing-plans/ . Fifty kg, or about half of what Eagle would have been, to GTO would cost 3 million dollars. Hey! that's only like $1000 per member! P3E, at 150kg, would be closer to 8 million, IF it could be made to fit the space available, and most likely mounted and launched sideways. Opportunities may still be out there to go to HEO, but it's a fairy tale to think that all we have to do is knock on the door and ask. It is also disheartening to see that so many just assume that we aren't trying. 73, Drew KO4MA ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
a push to jump in. Thanks, Brent, KB1LQD On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Alan wa4...@gmail.com wrote: Rick, I have a back pocket slide for my presentation when someone asks about P3. It is titled The Future Isn't What It Used to Be! which walks through the technical and financial changes which have required the paradigm shift. 73s, Alan WA4SCA -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Rick Tejera Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 5:14 PM To: 'amsat-bb' Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites? Andrew, I for one do appreciate the work the board and other volunteers do. It's certainly something I'm far from qualified to do and to be honest, I probably would not want to. I came into the hobby long after the HEO era ended, so I can only live vicariously through others recollections and hope Someday That being said I also can see there is a new launch paradigm and we have to adjust to it. I commend the board for accepting this and doing what they can to adapt to the new reality. I imagine the engineering obstacles to get a 3u Cubesat that would be viable in HEO are many, which most likely put that well into the future. When I give my talk on Satellite engineering principles to local clubs, the most common question I get asked is When are we going to get an HEO? My Answer is Not for a long time. 73 and looking forward to Fox.. Rick Tejera (K7TEJ) Saguaro Astronomy Club www.saguaroastro.org Thunderbird Amateur Radio Club www.w7tbc.org -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Glasbrenner Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 7:22 AM To: Jeff Moore; amsat-bb Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites? On 8/30/2013 1:25 AM, Jeff Moore wrote: How about hitting up the new COMMERCIAL launchers like SpaceX?? Those guys originated as amateur rocketeers. I would hope that folks have a little more faith in AMSAT leadership as far as exploring opportunities for launches, even if you don't read about every contact or discussion in ANS or QST. SpaceX is Elon Musk's company, who founded PayPal and Tesla Motors as well. He's not an amateur anything; he's one of the most successful businessmen in the world, a real-life Tony Stark. AMSAT-DL has met with Space-X, and this fact has been published in many places (http://amsat.org/pipermail/ans/2010/000378.html). SpaceX rarely launches pure test flights, they normally have paying customers even on first launches. Secondary payloads are handled through Spaceflight Services, and their rates are published at http://spaceflightservices.com/pricing-plans/. Fifty kg, or about half of what Eagle would have been, to GTO would cost 3 million dollars. Hey! that's only like $1000 per member! P3E, at 150kg, would be closer to 8 million, IF it could be made to fit the space available, and most likely mounted and launched sideways. Opportunities may still be out there to go to HEO, but it's a fairy tale to think that all we have to do is knock on the door and ask. It is also disheartening to see that so many just assume that we aren't trying. 73, Drew KO4MA ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
From: Joe n...@mwt.net Iknow kinda radical, but how about working with one of the radical new guys on the orbital block, Like the Chinese? or in a few years once they get all the bugs worked out, even the North Koreans? There are a very limited number of organisations that have the capability of launching payloads into HEO. The USA, Russian Federation, ESA, India and Beijing can do it but that's it. Some others can launch very small payloads into very low orbits but that's all they can do. Very low orbits (e.g. 300 km) are currently of no use to us (that may change with Ion motor development. Beijing like the other providers charge market prices for their launches and launch prices have been steady rising over the last few years because demand for launches is exceeding supply. It can now cost $100,000 just to get a 1 kg CubeSat into a low 650 km orbit. It's not just P3E that is affected, KiwiSat, which has a 435/145 linear transponder, has been built for some time but is sitting on the ground. Apparently it needs $1 million to get into a launch into a low 650 km orbit. BTW KiwiSat issued a status update on August 13, you can see it at http://www.kiwisat.org.nz/status.html 73 Trevor M5AKA ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
Add Japan to that list as well. 73, Drew KO4MA Sent from my iPhone On Aug 30, 2013, at 6:35 AM, M5AKA m5...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: The USA, Russian Federation, ESA, India and Beijing can do it but that's it. ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
Amen, Just go to the biggest SmallSat conference on earth at the annual AIAA/USU conference in Utah. Unlike AMSAT, the registration is $600 each, and it lasts 6 days and all 500 to 1000 attendees are fully into Small Cubesat like missions. And very expensive instruments. Every space related Commercial and Governmnet entity is there. A complete industry has grown up to support this new spearhead of interest and you can buy a VHF/UHF transceiver board for only $5000. Or a small 4 solar panel for $10,000 or an attitude sensor suite for $8000 or an antenna for $3000 or a chassis (cubesat) for $5000. Or a complete 3U cubesat for only $250,000. And everyone of these hundreds of cubesat missions ALL want a cheap ride to space. Dan is right, the days of free rides is long-long gone because the demand for paying rides is so high. Bob, WB4APR -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Schultz Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 10:56 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites? In the 1980's era of AO-10 and AO-13, AMSAT was just about the only outfit interested in launching small satellites, there was no commercial market for secondary launches, and we got them free or very cheap. In today's world, every university on Earth is building a Cubesat and commercial and government organizations are developing real missions around Cubesats. If they gave AMSAT a free launch today, they would have to give free launches to everybody. That is the main problem that we have today. The NASA Cubesat launch initiative is accepting applications for up to a 6U Cubesat with proposals due in November, it MIGHT be possible to get a launch to GTO through this program (or it might not be). Can AMSAT design a high altitude satellite in a 6U Cubesat frame with sufficient solar power generation and antenna gain to provide a viable ham radio mission in HEO? It is worth further study over the next two months. Dan Schultz N8FGV Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 23:58:57 -0700 From: Peter Klein pkl...@threshinc.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] High orbit satellites? Message-ID: 521ef131.6080...@threshinc.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed What are the chances that there will be another high-orbit satellite like AO-10 and AO-13? Does AMSAT have any plans in that direction since the demise of AO-40? My main satellite interest is live communication with faraway places, and I really miss those Molnya birds. --Peter, KD7MW ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
And or start working on OK can't get ride to High orbit,,, at least get us to a LEO spot and develop like Ion engines or something so we can eventually work our way to a high orbit, like with an ION engine, so it takes a few years to get there because of the low push level, but hey a few years is decades faster than we are doing now. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 8/30/2013 1:25 AM, Jeff Moore wrote: How about hitting up the new COMMERCIAL launchers like SpaceX?? Those guys originated as amateur rocketeers. There's others, we may be able to wangle a free or donated ride to HEO. The US government isn't likely to be viable, they can't even get astronauts to the ISS w/o begging a ride from someone else. Of course, we take a much larger risk in going for a test ride, we might want to have a P3F and P3G ready to go just in case. 7 3 Jeff Moore -- KE7ACY CN94 On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 7:34 AM, Joe n...@mwt.net mailto:n...@mwt.net wrote: Iknow kinda radical, but how about working with one of the radical new guys on the orbital block, Like the Chinese? or in a few years once they get all the bugs worked out, even the North Koreans? Hey a ride is a ride if they can do it for cheap I don't care. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
Andrew, I for one do appreciate the work the board and other volunteers do. It's certainly something I'm far from qualified to do and to be honest, I probably would not want to. I came into the hobby long after the HEO era ended, so I can only live vicariously through others recollections and hope Someday That being said I also can see there is a new launch paradigm and we have to adjust to it. I commend the board for accepting this and doing what they can to adapt to the new reality. I imagine the engineering obstacles to get a 3u Cubesat that would be viable in HEO are many, which most likely put that well into the future. When I give my talk on Satellite engineering principles to local clubs, the most common question I get asked is When are we going to get an HEO? My Answer is Not for a long time. 73 and looking forward to Fox.. Rick Tejera (K7TEJ) Saguaro Astronomy Club www.saguaroastro.org Thunderbird Amateur Radio Club www.w7tbc.org -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Glasbrenner Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 7:22 AM To: Jeff Moore; amsat-bb Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites? On 8/30/2013 1:25 AM, Jeff Moore wrote: How about hitting up the new COMMERCIAL launchers like SpaceX?? Those guys originated as amateur rocketeers. I would hope that folks have a little more faith in AMSAT leadership as far as exploring opportunities for launches, even if you don't read about every contact or discussion in ANS or QST. SpaceX is Elon Musk's company, who founded PayPal and Tesla Motors as well. He's not an amateur anything; he's one of the most successful businessmen in the world, a real-life Tony Stark. AMSAT-DL has met with Space-X, and this fact has been published in many places (http://amsat.org/pipermail/ans/2010/000378.html). SpaceX rarely launches pure test flights, they normally have paying customers even on first launches. Secondary payloads are handled through Spaceflight Services, and their rates are published at http://spaceflightservices.com/pricing-plans/ . Fifty kg, or about half of what Eagle would have been, to GTO would cost 3 million dollars. Hey! that's only like $1000 per member! P3E, at 150kg, would be closer to 8 million, IF it could be made to fit the space available, and most likely mounted and launched sideways. Opportunities may still be out there to go to HEO, but it's a fairy tale to think that all we have to do is knock on the door and ask. It is also disheartening to see that so many just assume that we aren't trying. 73, Drew KO4MA ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
For AMSAT-NA, I believe ITAR prohibits us from pursuing such opportunities. Jerry N0JY On 8/29/2013 9:34 AM, Joe wrote: Iknow kinda radical, but how about working with one of the radical new guys on the orbital block, Like the Chinese? or in a few years once they get all the bugs worked out, even the North Koreans? Hey a ride is a ride if they can do it for cheap I don't care. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 8/29/2013 8:40 AM, Paul Stoetzer wrote: We need a very wealthy individual or two to get into the hobby and decide they want to work a HEO! If I were to win the lottery or somehow come into a few tens of millions of dollars, I'd pony up for the launch. Honestly, though, the numbers aren't completely unrealistic. A long and coordinated worldwide fundraising campaign could get it done. However, the website includes the following sentence: The P3E-satellite should be ready for launch by mid-2007. http://www.p3e-satellite.org/en_EN/amsat.html Who's going to donate to a project when the website hasn't even been updated in over six years? I see it mentioned often that P3E is essentially ready to go. If that's the case, why not press forward. As a relative newcomer, I'm often frustrated about the lack of updates about anything and websites that are wildly out of date. I know that everyone is a volunteer and busy with other things, but would it be so difficult to send out an update about what's going on once in a while? For example, TurkSat-3USAT was launched back in April. There have been absolutely no updates from anyone about what happened. Obviously the beacon is not transmitting and the transponder is not on, but what happened? Is there hope for recovery? If it has failed, the entire community could benefit from knowledge about what has happened so that similar failures don't happen in the future. Then there is AO-27. The website was last updated in January saying it will be several months before they know if the satellite can be recovered. A quick update would be appreciated, even if it's something like: Due to time constraints, we haven't been able to attempt recovery. Things like this lead to the perception that this aspect of the hobby is dying. There is very little traffic on this reflector and not too much traffic on other web forums for amateur satellite operation. (See the QRZ forum topic Is AMSAT dead?) I know there's always a lot going on behind the scenes, but the lack of conversation and updates about what's going on doesn't really encourage hams to get involved or make donations. 73, Paul, N8HM Washington, DC On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Alan wa4...@gmail.com wrote: Peter, Most of us really miss the old birds. I was transferring satellite QSOs from the 1980s through the early 2000s to my electronic logbook, and was amazed at what I worked. AMSAT-DL has an excellent P3 satellite, currently being updated, but essentially ready to go. Here is the problem: $5M - $10M launch costs to HEO. Even a super discount rate of $1M would be impractical. In the old days, we could beg, borrow, and barter for launches at nominal rates on test flights. Unfortunately, the launch industry has matured, and can find buyers for even the smallest spaces and mass. Sometimes counties can get what I think of as National Prestige Rates for a first launch, but those days are largely behind us. Personally, I am confident that AMSAT-DL will fly their satellite, but it is clear that future HEOs will be few and far between. That is the highly abbreviated answer. 73s, Alan WA4SCA -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Peter Klein Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 1:59 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] High orbit satellites? What are the chances that there will be another high-orbit satellite like AO-10 and AO-13? Does AMSAT have any plans in that direction since the demise of AO-40? My main satellite interest is live communication with faraway places, and I really miss those Molnya birds. --Peter, KD7MW ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
Fabiano, You beat me to it! This would be a great idea. The important part would be in the execution. First identify a launch opportunity, satellite and budget that is real BEFORE launching a kickstarter. A review of some of the failed Kickstarter schemes would be important lesson. When AO40 launched, I was amazed just to be able to receive the 2M engineering beacon with a Standard C508 portable sitting on my dashboard WHILE driving! One of the incentives could be an inexpensive SDR kit designed specifically to receive and decode telemetry, SSTV images and other data. This could get the masses interested in the hobby. For bragging rights, contributors at a higher level would get a Vanity QSL card or similar vanity image item (for the unlicensed) stored in the bird and randomly displayed on SSTV or HDTV that could be decoded with the SDR kit. Make the SDR receiver kit portable and IOS and/or Android compatible and you have captured the younger demographic. Maybe some of the radio manufacturers could throw in gear as incentives for larger donations. To mis-quote Frank Zappa, AMSAT is not dead, it just smells bad. Message: 5 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:41:44 +0100 From: Fabiano Moserfabianomo...@gmail.com Cc: amsat-bbamsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites? Message-ID: CAM6o-maX=9KaU6mjALYxUtjk_BMNp=+x5M0fvfZ=q2jetuk...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 How manny Amateur Radio whole world can join this Challenge? What about: http://www.kickstarter.com ??? -- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida jleik...@leikhim.com 407-982-0446 WWW.LEIKHIM.COM ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
In fact many, many VOLUNTEER hours have been put in by the AMSAT leadership to get the two launch opportunities we have for Fox-1 and RadFXSat. You wouldn't believe the work involved. They deserve a big thank you for getting that done for us! It would be wonderful to share everything going on behind the scenes. To keep everyone updated often, on what the state/progress is. But for a few reasons, it doesn't quite happen that way... Number 1 reason the many, many volunteer hours just spent on the project means that the rest of the time is spent on those things outside the hobby like a normal person. I mean, how often do any of us sit down and write a detailed letter to the BB about our AMSAT activities over the last week or month? If we had a PIO that could relate the Fox-1 happenings to everyone... well, everyone would each still have to spend time telling the PIO what they have been doing! There are a lot of people working just on Fox-1, scattered all over the United States. I'm sure everyone who has done weekly status reports knows how fun that is. Number 2 reason, ITAR. Perhaps you say well Jerry, you just spent time writing this email... Then in the same amount of time I could tell you without jeopardizing the project, AMSAT, or my prison-free existence, after sitting for a few moments to recall what I did over the last week or two, that I worked on a lot of system bus changes and their related document updates (the same Fox-1 documents you read in the 2012 Symposium proceedings) because of design evolution, I worked on the downlink specification (how we're going to get all of the wonderful telemetry and pictures to you and our university partners), I researched and worked on changes to systems interfaces (design evolution again) and updated those documents, checked up on requirements tracking (very important to be sure we don't miss anything), and worked on test procedures. Talked to Tony on the phone, had an IHU software team conference call. Emailed a lot with other Fox-1 team members. And yes this took me about 10 minutes to recall and write here. Was any of what I said about what I did of interest to this group? Maybe. Useful information? Not so much. Something you want to hear about on a regular basis? Probably not, there's not much real value in what I just said. I doubt that any of us working on the project are very good at sound bites. That's not what we get paid* for. Now add to that the fact it would take more time to relate any of the details of what I did and even more time to determine what details I might safely relate in respect to ITAR, writing a letter to the BB or even an article for the Journal about what just I did becomes quite frankly, something I don't want to do. And I imagine that holds true for a lot of us. I'll be working on Fox-1 some more now but later today I'd like to eat a snack and play a video game for a bit, then make supper for the XYL and spend time with her when she gets home from work if you please. Oh and we have another Fox-1 conference call tomorrow, hope the XYL didn't already have plans for anything around 11 AM. Fox-1 is moving ahead on schedule, and there are things of public interest to share which are documented on the AMSAT web site or in the ANS. That's all... I think it would be fair to say that the Fox Team are all as excited and anxious as you are to get these satellites built and launched! It is hard work. But I love my job! Sorry if I wandered off topic, but Drew's comment about having a little more faith is on target. We have one very dedicated leadership and group of people volunteering for us. Jerry N0JY *You didn't really think we get paid? There wouldn't be anything left to pay Martha! On 8/30/2013 9:21 AM, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote: On 8/30/2013 1:25 AM, Jeff Moore wrote: How about hitting up the new COMMERCIAL launchers like SpaceX?? Those guys originated as amateur rocketeers. I would hope that folks have a little more faith in AMSAT leadership as far as exploring opportunities for launches, even if you don't read about every contact or discussion in ANS or QST. SpaceX is Elon Musk's company, who founded PayPal and Tesla Motors as well. He's not an amateur anything; he's one of the most successful businessmen in the world, a real-life Tony Stark. AMSAT-DL has met with Space-X, and this fact has been published in many places (http://amsat.org/pipermail/ans/2010/000378.html). SpaceX rarely launches pure test flights, they normally have paying customers even on first launches. Secondary payloads are handled through Spaceflight Services, and their rates are published at http://spaceflightservices.com/pricing-plans/ . Fifty kg, or about half of what Eagle would have been, to GTO would cost 3 million dollars. Hey! that's only like $1000 per member! P3E, at 150kg, would be closer to 8 million, IF it could be made to fit the space available, and
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
On 8/30/2013 1:25 AM, Jeff Moore wrote: How about hitting up the new COMMERCIAL launchers like SpaceX?? Those guys originated as amateur rocketeers. I would hope that folks have a little more faith in AMSAT leadership as far as exploring opportunities for launches, even if you don't read about every contact or discussion in ANS or QST. SpaceX is Elon Musk's company, who founded PayPal and Tesla Motors as well. He's not an amateur anything; he's one of the most successful businessmen in the world, a real-life Tony Stark. AMSAT-DL has met with Space-X, and this fact has been published in many places (http://amsat.org/pipermail/ans/2010/000378.html). SpaceX rarely launches pure test flights, they normally have paying customers even on first launches. Secondary payloads are handled through Spaceflight Services, and their rates are published at http://spaceflightservices.com/pricing-plans/ . Fifty kg, or about half of what Eagle would have been, to GTO would cost 3 million dollars. Hey! that's only like $1000 per member! P3E, at 150kg, would be closer to 8 million, IF it could be made to fit the space available, and most likely mounted and launched sideways. Opportunities may still be out there to go to HEO, but it's a fairy tale to think that all we have to do is knock on the door and ask. It is also disheartening to see that so many just assume that we aren't trying. 73, Drew KO4MA ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
Hi Peter, This is the one million dollar question ... 73 Jan PE0SAT On 29-08-2013 08:58, Peter Klein wrote: What are the chances that there will be another high-orbit satellite like AO-10 and AO-13? Does AMSAT have any plans in that direction since the demise of AO-40? My main satellite interest is live communication with faraway places, and I really miss those Molnya birds. --Peter, KD7MW ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb -- With regards PE0SAT Internet web-page http://www.pe0sat.vgnet.nl/ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
AMSAT-DL has Phase 3E mostly built, but the free launches of the past are gone. I believe the area of 10 million Euros is what they have been quoted for a purchased launch, which is out of the realm of amateur radio fundraising. AMSAT-DL has continued to search for an affordable launch. US participation has been hamstrung by ITAR, a set of laws regarding the export of satellite information. See http://www.amsat-dl.org/ (Google translate works well) for more directly from the organization. 73, Drew KO4MA -Original Message- From: Peter Klein pkl...@threshinc.com Sent: Aug 29, 2013 2:58 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] High orbit satellites? What are the chances that there will be another high-orbit satellite like AO-10 and AO-13? Does AMSAT have any plans in that direction since the demise of AO-40? My main satellite interest is live communication with faraway places, and I really miss those Molnya birds. --Peter, KD7MW ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
From: PE0SAT This is the one million dollar question ... Or more likely a $10 million question which would be about the cost of a launch. Peter Guelzow DB2OS, gave an AMSAT-DL update at the AMSAT-UK Colloquium in July. Watch online at http://www.batc.tv/streams/amsat1306 or download the video from http://www.batc.tv/vod/amsatdl.flv 73 Trevor M5AKA On 29-08-2013 08:58, Peter Klein wrote: What are the chances that there will be another high-orbit satellite like AO-10 and AO-13? Does AMSAT have any plans in that direction since the demise of AO-40? My main satellite interest is live communication with faraway places, and I really miss those Molnya birds. --Peter, KD7MW ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb -- With regards PE0SAT Internet web-page http://www.pe0sat.vgnet.nl/ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
Peter, Most of us really miss the old birds. I was transferring satellite QSOs from the 1980s through the early 2000s to my electronic logbook, and was amazed at what I worked. AMSAT-DL has an excellent P3 satellite, currently being updated, but essentially ready to go. Here is the problem: $5M - $10M launch costs to HEO. Even a super discount rate of $1M would be impractical. In the old days, we could beg, borrow, and barter for launches at nominal rates on test flights. Unfortunately, the launch industry has matured, and can find buyers for even the smallest spaces and mass. Sometimes counties can get what I think of as National Prestige Rates for a first launch, but those days are largely behind us. Personally, I am confident that AMSAT-DL will fly their satellite, but it is clear that future HEOs will be few and far between. That is the highly abbreviated answer. 73s, Alan WA4SCA -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Peter Klein Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 1:59 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] High orbit satellites? What are the chances that there will be another high-orbit satellite like AO-10 and AO-13? Does AMSAT have any plans in that direction since the demise of AO-40? My main satellite interest is live communication with faraway places, and I really miss those Molnya birds. --Peter, KD7MW ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
We need a very wealthy individual or two to get into the hobby and decide they want to work a HEO! If I were to win the lottery or somehow come into a few tens of millions of dollars, I'd pony up for the launch. Honestly, though, the numbers aren't completely unrealistic. A long and coordinated worldwide fundraising campaign could get it done. However, the website includes the following sentence: The P3E-satellite should be ready for launch by mid-2007. http://www.p3e-satellite.org/en_EN/amsat.html Who's going to donate to a project when the website hasn't even been updated in over six years? I see it mentioned often that P3E is essentially ready to go. If that's the case, why not press forward. As a relative newcomer, I'm often frustrated about the lack of updates about anything and websites that are wildly out of date. I know that everyone is a volunteer and busy with other things, but would it be so difficult to send out an update about what's going on once in a while? For example, TurkSat-3USAT was launched back in April. There have been absolutely no updates from anyone about what happened. Obviously the beacon is not transmitting and the transponder is not on, but what happened? Is there hope for recovery? If it has failed, the entire community could benefit from knowledge about what has happened so that similar failures don't happen in the future. Then there is AO-27. The website was last updated in January saying it will be several months before they know if the satellite can be recovered. A quick update would be appreciated, even if it's something like: Due to time constraints, we haven't been able to attempt recovery. Things like this lead to the perception that this aspect of the hobby is dying. There is very little traffic on this reflector and not too much traffic on other web forums for amateur satellite operation. (See the QRZ forum topic Is AMSAT dead?) I know there's always a lot going on behind the scenes, but the lack of conversation and updates about what's going on doesn't really encourage hams to get involved or make donations. 73, Paul, N8HM Washington, DC On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Alan wa4...@gmail.com wrote: Peter, Most of us really miss the old birds. I was transferring satellite QSOs from the 1980s through the early 2000s to my electronic logbook, and was amazed at what I worked. AMSAT-DL has an excellent P3 satellite, currently being updated, but essentially ready to go. Here is the problem: $5M - $10M launch costs to HEO. Even a super discount rate of $1M would be impractical. In the old days, we could beg, borrow, and barter for launches at nominal rates on test flights. Unfortunately, the launch industry has matured, and can find buyers for even the smallest spaces and mass. Sometimes counties can get what I think of as National Prestige Rates for a first launch, but those days are largely behind us. Personally, I am confident that AMSAT-DL will fly their satellite, but it is clear that future HEOs will be few and far between. That is the highly abbreviated answer. 73s, Alan WA4SCA -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Peter Klein Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 1:59 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] High orbit satellites? What are the chances that there will be another high-orbit satellite like AO-10 and AO-13? Does AMSAT have any plans in that direction since the demise of AO-40? My main satellite interest is live communication with faraway places, and I really miss those Molnya birds. --Peter, KD7MW ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
Well Paul, If you think about it. We might still have a few thousand folks left that are still members of one or more AMSATs. Maybe 10% or less are active at all. For example, the last two passes (a few minutes ago) on SO-50 (2 active). FO-29 (2 active). So, the big question for me is why would anyone spend $10Million for a few hundred folks (or less) to chat on a HEO satellite. The answer for me is simple: No one! The key is to find additional incentives (PR, payloads, science etc) which Amsat is doing by focusing on STEM, working with universities and looking at new and innovative ways. That's the same route AMSAT-DL has been trying for years. Unfortunately, with all their efforts their own government did not even support them. Also, if you look at the current funding stream from NASA, ESA and others. For example, $1 Million will support a multitude of cubesats in LEO helping students and universities everywhere. ESA supports HamTV on the ISS. Why, because it is great PR, connects thousands of students and classrooms to the astronauts and builds future human capacity in science and engineering. Bottom line: It is all in the package and ragchewing hams is the least attractive :-) Stefan, VE4NSA On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Paul Stoetzer n...@arrl.net wrote: We need a very wealthy individual or two to get into the hobby and decide they want to work a HEO! If I were to win the lottery or somehow come into a few tens of millions of dollars, I'd pony up for the launch. Honestly, though, the numbers aren't completely unrealistic. A long and coordinated worldwide fundraising campaign could get it done. However, the website includes the following sentence: The P3E-satellite should be ready for launch by mid-2007. http://www.p3e-satellite.org/en_EN/amsat.html Who's going to donate to a project when the website hasn't even been updated in over six years? I see it mentioned often that P3E is essentially ready to go. If that's the case, why not press forward. As a relative newcomer, I'm often frustrated about the lack of updates about anything and websites that are wildly out of date. I know that everyone is a volunteer and busy with other things, but would it be so difficult to send out an update about what's going on once in a while? For example, TurkSat-3USAT was launched back in April. There have been absolutely no updates from anyone about what happened. Obviously the beacon is not transmitting and the transponder is not on, but what happened? Is there hope for recovery? If it has failed, the entire community could benefit from knowledge about what has happened so that similar failures don't happen in the future. Then there is AO-27. The website was last updated in January saying it will be several months before they know if the satellite can be recovered. A quick update would be appreciated, even if it's something like: Due to time constraints, we haven't been able to attempt recovery. Things like this lead to the perception that this aspect of the hobby is dying. There is very little traffic on this reflector and not too much traffic on other web forums for amateur satellite operation. (See the QRZ forum topic Is AMSAT dead?) I know there's always a lot going on behind the scenes, but the lack of conversation and updates about what's going on doesn't really encourage hams to get involved or make donations. 73, Paul, N8HM Washington, DC On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Alan wa4...@gmail.com wrote: Peter, Most of us really miss the old birds. I was transferring satellite QSOs from the 1980s through the early 2000s to my electronic logbook, and was amazed at what I worked. AMSAT-DL has an excellent P3 satellite, currently being updated, but essentially ready to go. Here is the problem: $5M - $10M launch costs to HEO. Even a super discount rate of $1M would be impractical. In the old days, we could beg, borrow, and barter for launches at nominal rates on test flights. Unfortunately, the launch industry has matured, and can find buyers for even the smallest spaces and mass. Sometimes counties can get what I think of as National Prestige Rates for a first launch, but those days are largely behind us. Personally, I am confident that AMSAT-DL will fly their satellite, but it is clear that future HEOs will be few and far between. That is the highly abbreviated answer. 73s, Alan WA4SCA -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Peter Klein Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 1:59 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] High orbit satellites? What are the chances that there will be another high-orbit satellite like AO-10 and AO-13? Does AMSAT have any plans in that direction since the demise of AO-40? My main satellite interest is live communication with faraway places, and I really miss those Molnya birds.
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
Iknow kinda radical, but how about working with one of the radical new guys on the orbital block, Like the Chinese? or in a few years once they get all the bugs worked out, even the North Koreans? Hey a ride is a ride if they can do it for cheap I don't care. Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 8/29/2013 8:40 AM, Paul Stoetzer wrote: We need a very wealthy individual or two to get into the hobby and decide they want to work a HEO! If I were to win the lottery or somehow come into a few tens of millions of dollars, I'd pony up for the launch. Honestly, though, the numbers aren't completely unrealistic. A long and coordinated worldwide fundraising campaign could get it done. However, the website includes the following sentence: The P3E-satellite should be ready for launch by mid-2007. http://www.p3e-satellite.org/en_EN/amsat.html Who's going to donate to a project when the website hasn't even been updated in over six years? I see it mentioned often that P3E is essentially ready to go. If that's the case, why not press forward. As a relative newcomer, I'm often frustrated about the lack of updates about anything and websites that are wildly out of date. I know that everyone is a volunteer and busy with other things, but would it be so difficult to send out an update about what's going on once in a while? For example, TurkSat-3USAT was launched back in April. There have been absolutely no updates from anyone about what happened. Obviously the beacon is not transmitting and the transponder is not on, but what happened? Is there hope for recovery? If it has failed, the entire community could benefit from knowledge about what has happened so that similar failures don't happen in the future. Then there is AO-27. The website was last updated in January saying it will be several months before they know if the satellite can be recovered. A quick update would be appreciated, even if it's something like: Due to time constraints, we haven't been able to attempt recovery. Things like this lead to the perception that this aspect of the hobby is dying. There is very little traffic on this reflector and not too much traffic on other web forums for amateur satellite operation. (See the QRZ forum topic Is AMSAT dead?) I know there's always a lot going on behind the scenes, but the lack of conversation and updates about what's going on doesn't really encourage hams to get involved or make donations. 73, Paul, N8HM Washington, DC On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Alan wa4...@gmail.com wrote: Peter, Most of us really miss the old birds. I was transferring satellite QSOs from the 1980s through the early 2000s to my electronic logbook, and was amazed at what I worked. AMSAT-DL has an excellent P3 satellite, currently being updated, but essentially ready to go. Here is the problem: $5M - $10M launch costs to HEO. Even a super discount rate of $1M would be impractical. In the old days, we could beg, borrow, and barter for launches at nominal rates on test flights. Unfortunately, the launch industry has matured, and can find buyers for even the smallest spaces and mass. Sometimes counties can get what I think of as National Prestige Rates for a first launch, but those days are largely behind us. Personally, I am confident that AMSAT-DL will fly their satellite, but it is clear that future HEOs will be few and far between. That is the highly abbreviated answer. 73s, Alan WA4SCA -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Peter Klein Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 1:59 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] High orbit satellites? What are the chances that there will be another high-orbit satellite like AO-10 and AO-13? Does AMSAT have any plans in that direction since the demise of AO-40? My main satellite interest is live communication with faraway places, and I really miss those Molnya birds. --Peter, KD7MW ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
I am a outsider looking in, so don't take this wrong, but I've also noticed this problem, not just here, but at other sites that I watch. As the editor of Keep America At Work I believe the solution is simple, but you may not agree with me, and it is not my intent to tick you off if that happens. The solution I believe is to give all of the volunteers access to the wordpress platform with a user level of contributor --- Summary of Roles Super Admin - somebody with access to the site network administration features and all other features. See the Create a Network article. Administrator - somebody who has access to all the administration features within a single site. Editor - somebody who can publish and manage posts including the posts of other users. Author - somebody who can publish and manage their own posts. Contributor - somebody who can write and manage their own posts but cannot publish them. Subscriber - somebody who can only manage their profile. --- You will then move the bottleneck from getting articles to having an editor that will approve, and publish them which will greatly simplify the process. Sure, this will require the editor(s) to preview the articles, and release them, but I'm betting that is a very manageable task. I'm not up to speed on the amsat community and my financial situation is not good without work, so I'm probably not a good candidate for the editor/publisher role, but I will guarantee you that I can get the site up to date and current asap if I were. Sometimes we focus so much on the infrastructure that we lose site of the fact that our mission is to get the message to the people as the people could care less about the infrastructure My two cents only, and if I'm out of place, let me know and I will shut up. Virgil N5IVV Keep America At Work -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Paul Stoetzer Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 8:41 AM To: apbid...@mailaps.org Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org; Peter Klein Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites? We need a very wealthy individual or two to get into the hobby and decide they want to work a HEO! If I were to win the lottery or somehow come into a few tens of millions of dollars, I'd pony up for the launch. Honestly, though, the numbers aren't completely unrealistic. A long and coordinated worldwide fundraising campaign could get it done. However, the website includes the following sentence: The P3E-satellite should be ready for launch by mid-2007. http://www.p3e-satellite.org/en_EN/amsat.html Who's going to donate to a project when the website hasn't even been updated in over six years? I see it mentioned often that P3E is essentially ready to go. If that's the case, why not press forward. As a relative newcomer, I'm often frustrated about the lack of updates about anything and websites that are wildly out of date. I know that everyone is a volunteer and busy with other things, but would it be so difficult to send out an update about what's going on once in a while? For example, TurkSat-3USAT was launched back in April. There have been absolutely no updates from anyone about what happened. Obviously the beacon is not transmitting and the transponder is not on, but what happened? Is there hope for recovery? If it has failed, the entire community could benefit from knowledge about what has happened so that similar failures don't happen in the future. Then there is AO-27. The website was last updated in January saying it will be several months before they know if the satellite can be recovered. A quick update would be appreciated, even if it's something like: Due to time constraints, we haven't been able to attempt recovery. Things like this lead to the perception that this aspect of the hobby is dying. There is very little traffic on this reflector and not too much traffic on other web forums for amateur satellite operation. (See the QRZ forum topic Is AMSAT dead?) I know there's always a lot going on behind the scenes, but the lack of conversation and updates about what's going on doesn't really encourage hams to get involved or make donations. 73, Paul, N8HM Washington, DC On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Alan wa4...@gmail.com wrote: Peter, Most of us really miss the old birds. I was transferring satellite QSOs from the 1980s through the early 2000s to my electronic logbook, and was amazed at what I worked. AMSAT-DL has an excellent P3 satellite, currently being updated, but essentially ready to go. Here is the problem: $5M - $10M launch costs to HEO. Even a super discount rate of $1M would be impractical. In the old days, we could beg, borrow, and barter for launches at nominal rates on test flights. Unfortunately, the launch industry has matured, and can find buyers for even the smallest spaces and mass. Sometimes counties can get what I think of as National Prestige Rates for a first launch, but those days
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 09:34:41AM -0500, Joe wrote: Iknow kinda radical, but how about working with one of the radical new guys on the orbital block, Like the Chinese? or in a few years once they get all the bugs worked out, even the North Koreans? Hey a ride is a ride if they can do it for cheap I don't care. I said ages ago we should be looking at Iran for inexpensive rides to LEO at least today, maybe HEO tomorrow. They've actually managed to successfully fly a couple of sats, unlike North Korea. -- Gordonjcp MM0YEQ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
Hi Peter, KD7MW I also really miss AO-10, AO-13 and particularly AO40 and I losted a lot of money to get ready in all modes for AO40 but actually after 10 years that AO40 died my antennas are becoming rusty and metal scrap over the roof. Sorry,it was nice until lasted but in my opinion there is no chance and no way to get a new HEO satellite in the time to come for many years almost for me. 81 years old ! Amen ! 73 de i8CVS Domenico - Original Message - From: Peter Klein pkl...@threshinc.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 8:58 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] High orbit satellites? What are the chances that there will be another high-orbit satellite like AO-10 and AO-13? Does AMSAT have any plans in that direction since the demise of AO-40? My main satellite interest is live communication with faraway places, and I really miss those Molnya birds. --Peter, KD7MW ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
How manny Amateur Radio whole world can join this Challenge? What about: http://www.kickstarter.com ??? On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Gordon JC Pearce gordon...@gjcp.netwrote: On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 09:34:41AM -0500, Joe wrote: Iknow kinda radical, but how about working with one of the radical new guys on the orbital block, Like the Chinese? or in a few years once they get all the bugs worked out, even the North Koreans? Hey a ride is a ride if they can do it for cheap I don't care. I said ages ago we should be looking at Iran for inexpensive rides to LEO at least today, maybe HEO tomorrow. They've actually managed to successfully fly a couple of sats, unlike North Korea. -- Gordonjcp MM0YEQ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
Gordon, Some of the new players may well be sources of affordable launches. They will be looking to build credibility as a launch provider, and will probably be willing to take payloads on a Good Will basis. From an American standpoint, most of the new guys are on prohibited lists, and will remain so even when the new ITAR rules are promulgated. The situation is little better for non-US AMSATs. Iran, and the Norks, are on similar international lists, so it is not just us. In some cases, there are significant penalties for dealing with them, now. Depending on world events, that may be some time in changing. :) 73s, Alan WA4SCA -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Gordon JC Pearce Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 12:03 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites? On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 09:34:41AM -0500, Joe wrote: Iknow kinda radical, but how about working with one of the radical new guys on the orbital block, Like the Chinese? or in a few years once they get all the bugs worked out, even the North Koreans? Hey a ride is a ride if they can do it for cheap I don't care. I said ages ago we should be looking at Iran for inexpensive rides to LEO at least today, maybe HEO tomorrow. They've actually managed to successfully fly a couple of sats, unlike North Korea. -- Gordonjcp MM0YEQ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: High orbit satellites?
In the 1980's era of AO-10 and AO-13, AMSAT was just about the only outfit interested in launching small satellites, there was no commercial market for secondary launches, and we got them free or very cheap. In today's world, every university on Earth is building a Cubesat and commercial and government organizations are developing real missions around Cubesats. If they gave AMSAT a free launch today, they would have to give free launches to everybody. That is the main problem that we have today. The NASA Cubesat launch initiative is accepting applications for up to a 6U Cubesat with proposals due in November, it MIGHT be possible to get a launch to GTO through this program (or it might not be). Can AMSAT design a high altitude satellite in a 6U Cubesat frame with sufficient solar power generation and antenna gain to provide a viable ham radio mission in HEO? It is worth further study over the next two months. Dan Schultz N8FGV Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 23:58:57 -0700 From: Peter Klein pkl...@threshinc.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] High orbit satellites? Message-ID: 521ef131.6080...@threshinc.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed What are the chances that there will be another high-orbit satellite like AO-10 and AO-13? Does AMSAT have any plans in that direction since the demise of AO-40? My main satellite interest is live communication with faraway places, and I really miss those Molnya birds. --Peter, KD7MW ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
