Re: [android-developers] Say Hello to the Menu?
It's not just the physical menu button - overall, there seems to be a trend in ICS/JB to move away from previously established metaphors, like buttons that look like buttons, and the long press (which supposedly takes too much time). Instead, we're supposed to tap on various layout elements that, at a first (and second, and third) glance look like eye candy or passive information-presenting items. I get lost in the dialer app every time I need to jump from a phone # to its contact, or to edit a phone # before redialing. Was I supposed to tap here? Darn, it's dialing... abort, abort. Ok, go back, try this here instead... It's dialing again, abort, go back... Try the long press... Oh no, it's dialing again. Second, the action bar overflow on-screen button (wtf is "affordance"? I can't spell that) looks just like a piece of eye-candy. Three dots == popup menu? Third, the on-screen Back/Home/Tasks buttons on the Galaxy Nexus are easily hit by mistake when entering text (the onscreen space bar is also near the bottom). Now, I'm not an alcoholic, my hands don't shake, but I do hit the Home button regularly when entering text. The same approach works on tablets because the screen is physically larger and those buttons are positioned on the left side. On phone-type devices, where it's right next to the space bar (or the action bar overflow panel) it really gets in the way. Now, at least some of these new UI metaphors appear to be on the decline. I'm sure everyone remembers how using horizontal swiping everywhere, like in the Google+ app, was a big deal a few months ago. Well, the current version of G+ uses a drop-down list to switch streams (popular/circles/nearby) where prior versions used swiping. -- K 2012/7/26 Latimerius > On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:17 AM, yvolk wrote: > > Josh, your words confirm that the answer to the common question "Do I > have > > MORE options/actions HERE ?" is not a single step :-) > > I agree that ideal implementation would be to have that "Action overflow" > > button: > > always in one place + always clickable + always distinguishable if there > > are any hidden actions. > > > > Currently in Android 3-4.1 we don't have all of the above, this is why > > hardware "Menu" button that works exactly like "always clickable Action > > overflow button" is a good addition for an Android device. > > Do you agree? > > Unfortunately, I'm afraid you're wasting your time. Having a way of > bringing up additional UI that is standard across apps, off-screen so > that it never gets in the way, and always accessible is seen as bad. > Having to push the physical menu button to see if an app has options > is seen as unacceptable. What the reasons are I'm still not clear > about. The issue is brought up regularly here but they won't discuss > the reasons or the problems the current state brings about for some > classes of apps. Apparently, Google is dead set on having their way > here at any cost. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Android Developers" group. > To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Developers" group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Say Hello to the Menu?
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:17 AM, yvolk wrote: > Josh, your words confirm that the answer to the common question "Do I have > MORE options/actions HERE ?" is not a single step :-) > I agree that ideal implementation would be to have that "Action overflow" > button: > always in one place + always clickable + always distinguishable if there > are any hidden actions. > > Currently in Android 3-4.1 we don't have all of the above, this is why > hardware "Menu" button that works exactly like "always clickable Action > overflow button" is a good addition for an Android device. > Do you agree? Unfortunately, I'm afraid you're wasting your time. Having a way of bringing up additional UI that is standard across apps, off-screen so that it never gets in the way, and always accessible is seen as bad. Having to push the physical menu button to see if an app has options is seen as unacceptable. What the reasons are I'm still not clear about. The issue is brought up regularly here but they won't discuss the reasons or the problems the current state brings about for some classes of apps. Apparently, Google is dead set on having their way here at any cost. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Developers" group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Say Hello to the Menu?
Josh, your words confirm that the answer to the common question "Do I have MORE options/actions HERE ?" is not a single step :-) I agree that ideal implementation would be to have that "Action overflow" button: always in one place + always clickable + always distinguishable if there are any hidden actions. Currently in Android 3-4.1 we don't have all of the above, this is why hardware "Menu" button that works exactly like "always clickable Action overflow button" is a good addition for an Android device. Do you agree? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Developers" group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Say Hello to the Menu?
The action overflow is always in one of two locations, and it's always with the rest of the action items. I've never felt like I've missed it, but on legacy apps I'm constantly having to hit the compatibility menu button to see if there's more to a page. One thing I did back when I was running AOKP was to set it so the compatibility button only showed on legacy apps, but was always clickable (just invisible sometimes). That was more of a convenience thing than a discovery aid though. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Developers" group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Say Hello to the Menu?
Thanks Josh, I agree. But "Action overflow" has its problem also: When there are any hidden actions, you do see the button. It's OK. But when you don't see these "three vertical dots" anywhere, you're nervous because you don't have any proof that you didn't miss these "three dots"?! In this case having hardware "Action overflow" button (new name for the same old hardware "Menu" button) is a noticeable advantage, because you may always explicitly "check for hidden options"! I really see the need in such check when I'm searching and cannot find additional options in a application. Conclusion: Hardware "Action overflow" button (new name for the same old hardware "Menu" button) is a good backup for the onscreen "Action overflow" button and it may be seen as a nice option for Android v.3+ devices. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Developers" group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: [android-developers] Say Hello to the Menu?
Part of the problem of the old menu button was that it was impossible to
tell ahead of time whether it would do anything at all. There's nothing
wrong with having items hidden off-screen (in many cases you want to do
exactly that), the problem came from not knowing there was anything there.
By having the on-screen overflow menu affordance, the user is made aware
that there is more they can do on this screen without having to guess.
On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 8:48:41 AM UTC-7, yvolk wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 2:59:49 PM UTC+4, Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy)
> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 2:05 AM, yvolk wrote:
>> > In the "Sync" screen of the "Accounts and Sync"
>>
>> There is no "Accounts and Sync" on Jelly Bean in Settings, so I do not
>> know what you are referring to.
>>
> Mark, I'm comparing two versions of Android: v.4.0.4 does have this
> submenu. In v.4.1. instead of selecting "Accounts and Sync" you have to
> select the name of the "Groups of accounts" e.g. "Email". Further select
> exact account - and you're on the "Sync screen".
> I've tried this in the emulator trying to disable hardware buttons:
> Yes, as you describe for the Chrome browser, here hardware "Menu" button
> is being replaced with soft "Action overflow" button, but they act exactly
> the same way: open the same list of options , initially hidden from a User .
> So technically it's really a new way to open "List of actions" but in fact
> it is implemented as a pure replacement of hardware button with soft button
> having other name ("Action overflow") to open the same "Options menu"
> (without "grid choices") :-(
>
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Re: [android-developers] Say Hello to the Menu?
On Wednesday, July 25, 2012 2:59:49 PM UTC+4, Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy)
wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 2:05 AM, yvolk wrote:
> > In the "Sync" screen of the "Accounts and Sync"
>
> There is no "Accounts and Sync" on Jelly Bean in Settings, so I do not
> know what you are referring to.
>
Mark, I'm comparing two versions of Android: v.4.0.4 does have this
submenu. In v.4.1. instead of selecting "Accounts and Sync" you have to
select the name of the "Groups of accounts" e.g. "Email". Further select
exact account - and you're on the "Sync screen".
I've tried this in the emulator trying to disable hardware buttons:
Yes, as you describe for the Chrome browser, here hardware "Menu" button is
being replaced with soft "Action overflow" button, but they act exactly the
same way: open the same list of options , initially hidden from a User .
So technically it's really a new way to open "List of actions" but in fact
it is implemented as a pure replacement of hardware button with soft button
having other name ("Action overflow") to open the same "Options menu"
(without "grid choices") :-(
--
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Re: [android-developers] Say Hello to the Menu?
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 2:05 AM, yvolk wrote: > In the "Sync" screen of the "Accounts and Sync" There is no "Accounts and Sync" on Jelly Bean in Settings, so I do not know what you are referring to. > Today I've noticed that latest version of the Chrome browser on my Android > 4.0.4 device does actively use both Action Bar and Options Menu but for > DIFFERENT purposes. On my Nexus S (4.1), Chrome has an action bar for contextual operations (an "action mode"), plus a fake overflow menu. An options menu looks different (2 x 3 grid of choices). And the overflow menu is fake, as I am reasonably certain that we cannot have a three-part menu choice, where they have forward/back/favorite buttons. However, that will only be true for devices with an off-screen MENU button. For devices that do not (e.g., Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 7; both 4.1), the address bar contains the overflow menu. Hence, other than the fact that the overflow menu is faked, this is precisely the expected behavior. Devices with a MENU button will have no visual on-screen affordance to bring up the overflow, and it rises from the bottom of the screen. Devices without a MENU button will have the on-screen (and, ideally, in action bar) affordance to bring up the overflow menu. Chrome uses a fake action bar (on tablets, it is inside the tabs) and a fake overflow menu. You are certainly welcome to do the same in your apps. The objective is not necessarily for all apps to use the same implementation of these things, but for things to behave basically the same for users. -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com | http://github.com/commonsguy http://commonsware.com/blog | http://twitter.com/commonsguy Android Training in DC: http://marakana.com/training/android/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Developers" group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
