Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and exposure of the elders)

[Arijit Debnath]

Jagan I am agreeing with ur opinion...but still would say that it's a
open forum and people/fans will provide their opinion.

Everybody can put their thoughts in this forum that might show their
knowledge or illiteracy.

Arijit
2009/3/21 jagan nath 

>  Dear Rawat,
>
> The exact reply for your query i think is - "We are not so knowledged
> to analyse ARR's music."
>
> AR's music is divine and we cannot judge divine power. We dont have enough
> knowledge to judge his music. Thats the truth.
>
> Jai Ho
> Jagan
>
>
>
>
> >
> > --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. 
> > com,
> V S Rawat  wrote:
> >> On 3/12/2009 3:11 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb Farooq_ wrote:
> >>
> >>> in fact we watched
> >>> JA together and during Khwaja mere khwaja as I mentioned that music
> >>> is by ARR, he said I did not see anything special (sadly enough. may
> >>> because it was in bad quality. also we know that ARR's music grows
> >>> but he does not)..
> >> I am a known JA basher so I thought I can say about this song also.
> >>
> >> khwaja song might be holding additional value for muslims due to its
> >> religious connotations, and for general fans it might have got some high
>
> >> weightage due to the anecdotes of ARR having composed it already and
> >> then AG using it in the film.
> >>
> >> But as a song, I find khwaja song quite barren and monotonous if I can
> >> say that. It is a sort of "introvert" song giving a feel that a person
> >> must be singing it within his heart and mind. It is his personal
> >> pleasure. Others would not be able to connect to it.
> >>
> >> Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to
> >> say and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. It is more
>
> >> like the sounds generated when a player "tunes up" his instruments
> >> before starting to really play it up. Such a long wasted part is a sin
> >> in current busy time. Those "ya khwaja ji, moinuddin, gareeb nawaz" are
> >> without any lyrical or music value". So, I think the start itself is
> >> badly thought up.
> >>
> >> But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. A
> >> typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, "logically-built up"
> >> lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar.
> >>
> >> Khwaja Mere Khwaja
> >> Dil Mein Sama ja
> >> Bebaso ki Taqdeer
> >> Tu ne hai sawari
> >>
> >> There is no rhyming, no deep devotion. All that "dil mein sama ja" type
> >> of phrases had been used a 1000 times in cheap ladki-pataao songs in 60s
>
> >> and here he comes up with that in a 21st century devotional song.
> >>
> >> I would say that the major failure of the song remains in the poor
> >> lyrics. Then, it fails in arrangements of vocals. None of the voices
> >> carry and ethos and pathos. They are just singing an any song, not a
> >> religious song for the most respected muslim personality of Indian
> >> subcontinent. pronunciations are also not clear. that bebaso ki taqdeer
> >> tu ne hai sanwari, has bebaso and tu ne pronounced so pooorly that one
> >> has to strain to hear it and make the meaning of it. Sad that it is our
> >> man himself.
> >>
> >> And then "Tere darbaar mein khwaza noor ko mainne dekha" has noor
> >> pronounced so poorly by our man himself, and then there are alaaps, and
> >> then the music gives the impression that the line is going to be
> >> repeated, tere darbar mein khwaja - but they drop the line
> >> unceremoniously and begin another line - sar jhukaate hain auliya.
> >> What was so great in mentioning that auliya sar jhukate hain, so what,
> >> is that why you feel respect for him? I think the respect should have
> >> come from within, not due to seeing how others are respecting him.
> >>
> >> and then "tu hai  khwaja - rutaba hai pyara" chahne se tujhko
> >> mustafa ko paya" that xxx is still not clear to my aging ears. and
> >> lastly that "hai mere peer ka sadqa, tera daman hai thama," tali hai
> >> bala hamari, chhaya hai khumar tera, jitna bhi rashq karein beshaq, to
> >> ab hai XXX mere khwaja, tere kadmo ko mere rahnuma nahin chhodna gawara.
>
> >> I don't get what exactly is the concept. No rhyming, no poetry, just
> >> some words have got hammerred in. It must be the poorest lyrics by
> Javed.
> >>
> >> I would say that ARR's voice is also not as sweet enough as he is famed
> >> for, there is a rare shrillness, a hollow in ARR's voice that I don't
> >> remember having heard in any other song. May be he was trying a new
> >> voice but it didn't suit my ears.
> >>
> >> all the internal aalaaps also are confusing, making it a classical song.
>
> >> They are not even bringing a sense of a trance.
> >>
> >> And as I already said once that JA music was a personal music and didn't
>
> >> reflect the lavishness of the film.
> >>
> >> I think I can describe now what I meant by that personal vs lavishness.
> >> Listen to the music between 3:40 - 4:05. That 

Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and exposure of the elders)

[jagan nath]

Dear Rawat,
 
    The exact reply for your query i think is - "We are not so knowledged to 
analyse ARR's music."
 
AR's music is divine and we cannot judge divine power. We dont have enough 
knowledge to judge his music. Thats the truth.
 
Jai Ho
Jagan









> 
> --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, V S Rawat  wrote:
>> On 3/12/2009 3:11 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb Farooq_ wrote:
>>
>>> in fact we watched
>>> JA together and during Khwaja mere khwaja as I mentioned that music
>>> is by ARR, he said I did not see anything special (sadly enough. may
>>> because it was in bad quality. also we know that ARR's music grows
>>> but he does not).
>> I am a known JA basher so I thought I can say about this song also.
>>
>> khwaja song might be holding additional value for muslims due to its 
>> religious connotations, and for general fans it might have got some high 
>> weightage due to the anecdotes of ARR having composed it already and 
>> then AG using it in the film.
>>
>> But as a song, I find khwaja song quite barren and monotonous if I can 
>> say that. It is a sort of "introvert" song giving a feel that a person 
>> must be singing it within his heart and mind. It is his personal 
>> pleasure. Others would not be able to connect to it.
>>
>> Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to 
>> say and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. It is more 
>> like the sounds generated when a player "tunes up" his instruments 
>> before starting to really play it up. Such a long wasted part is a sin 
>> in current busy time. Those "ya khwaja ji, moinuddin, gareeb nawaz" are 
>> without any lyrical or music value". So, I think the start itself is 
>> badly thought up.
>>
>> But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. A 
>> typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, "logically-built up" 
>> lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar.
>>
>> Khwaja Mere Khwaja
>> Dil Mein Sama ja
>> Bebaso ki Taqdeer
>> Tu ne hai sawari
>>
>> There is no rhyming, no deep devotion. All that "dil mein sama ja" type 
>> of phrases had been used a 1000 times in cheap ladki-pataao songs in 60s 
>> and here he comes up with that in a 21st century devotional song.
>>
>> I would say that the major failure of the song remains in the poor 
>> lyrics. Then, it fails in arrangements of vocals. None of the voices 
>> carry and ethos and pathos. They are just singing an any song, not a 
>> religious song for the most respected muslim personality of Indian 
>> subcontinent. pronunciations are also not clear. that bebaso ki taqdeer 
>> tu ne hai sanwari, has bebaso and tu ne pronounced so pooorly that one 
>> has to strain to hear it and make the meaning of it. Sad that it is our 
>> man himself.
>>
>> And then "Tere darbaar mein khwaza noor ko mainne dekha" has noor 
>> pronounced so poorly by our man himself, and then there are alaaps, and 
>> then the music gives the impression that the line is going to be 
>> repeated, tere darbar mein khwaja - but they drop the line 
>> unceremoniously and begin another line - sar jhukaate hain auliya. 
>> What was so great in mentioning that auliya sar jhukate hain, so what, 
>> is that why you feel respect for him? I think the respect should have 
>> come from within, not due to seeing how others are respecting him.
>>
>> and then "tu hai  khwaja - rutaba hai pyara" chahne se tujhko 
>> mustafa ko paya" that xxx is still not clear to my aging ears. and 
>> lastly that "hai mere peer ka sadqa, tera daman hai thama," tali hai 
>> bala hamari, chhaya hai khumar tera, jitna bhi rashq karein beshaq, to 
>> ab hai XXX mere khwaja, tere kadmo ko mere rahnuma nahin chhodna gawara. 
>> I don't get what exactly is the concept. No rhyming, no poetry, just 
>> some words have got hammerred in. It must be the poorest lyrics by Javed..
>>
>> I would say that ARR's voice is also not as sweet enough as he is famed 
>> for, there is a rare shrillness, a hollow in ARR's voice that I don't 
>> remember having heard in any other song. May be he was trying a new 
>> voice but it didn't suit my ears.
>>
>> all the internal aalaaps also are confusing, making it a classical song. 
>> They are not even bringing a sense of a trance.
>>
>> And as I already said once that JA music was a personal music and didn't 
>> reflect the lavishness of the film.
>>
>> I think I can describe now what I meant by that personal vs lavishness. 
>> Listen to the music between 3:40 - 4:05. That Persian sort of. Now, that 
>> is what I call a royal music, that has lavishness, that has luxury, that 
>> is group music, public music. Also the instrument that stars playing at 
>> the backdrop at about 6:10 and continues till the end of song. that 
>> single instrument is giving a royal touch to the song. That type of 
>> music is what I expected to be everywhere in JA music and background, 
>> but no, we didn't get that. Our man had different ideas about music 
>> suitable for the e

Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and exposure of the elders)

[jibandevta]

Dear Rawat,

You have mentioned that 'Khwaja.. is monotonous'..I say It 'must' be
monotonous because it is a kind of 'Individual' Devotion..
Each of us has different approach to Religion and Devotion including
Rahman..He 's already said that He's sung it from his heart and is
a tribute to 'Khwaja ji'..so We DO NOT have any right to challenge
or comment on his 'way of devotion'!!!
Religion and Spirituality is NOT always gathering 10-50 people
and singing Bhajans or Qawaalis..


You have said that its kind of introvert song so you don;t have any
right to comment like this:-


"Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to say 
and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. It is more like the 
sounds generated when a player "tunes up" his instruments"
This is Rahman's pure 'Own' approach to song..You are contradicting
your own starements thereby..anyway I agree with you that 'Arziyaan'
has more Powerful mass appeal bcoz it is collective prayer.

-jiban
"jai ho"




--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Pradeepan R  wrote:
>
> Rawat, lets understand one simple thing first:
> Music and its taste is very highly subjective. Its not something that
> everyone can objectively define as to what is good or bad.
> can anyone measure likability of music like blood pressure !!
> I can't understand why you fail to recognise this fact, instead of using
> terms like 'blind-faith' !!
> 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:32 AM, V S Rawat  wrote:
> 
> >   As I said, when someone tend to like everything, it could be that his
> > artist is really flawlessly consistently great, or it could be that we
> > love the artist so much that we can't make ourselves see his rare
> > drawbacks.
> >
> > I am not just giving a high handed judgment rendering khwaja poor. I
> > have elaborated point by point what I find it lacking in.
> >
> > Yeah, in that mail I did declare Arziyan great without going point by
> > point why i find it great. Some day I will analyze it.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > --
> > Rawat
> >
> >
> > On 3/13/2009 7:22 AM India Time, _Chord_ wrote:
> >
> > > Wow, Rawat, tell us how you really feel. I pretty much disagree with you
> > completely. I love Khwaja and Arziyan both the same.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com , V
> > S Rawat  wrote:
> > >> On 3/12/2009 3:11 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb Farooq_ wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> in fact we watched
> > >>> JA together and during Khwaja mere khwaja as I mentioned that music
> > >>> is by ARR, he said I did not see anything special (sadly enough. may
> > >>> because it was in bad quality. also we know that ARR's music grows
> > >>> but he does not).
> > >> I am a known JA basher so I thought I can say about this song also.
> > >>
> > >> khwaja song might be holding additional value for muslims due to its
> > >> religious connotations, and for general fans it might have got some high
> >
> > >> weightage due to the anecdotes of ARR having composed it already and
> > >> then AG using it in the film.
> > >>
> > >> But as a song, I find khwaja song quite barren and monotonous if I can
> > >> say that. It is a sort of "introvert" song giving a feel that a person
> > >> must be singing it within his heart and mind. It is his personal
> > >> pleasure. Others would not be able to connect to it.
> > >>
> > >> Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to
> > >> say and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. It is more
> >
> > >> like the sounds generated when a player "tunes up" his instruments
> > >> before starting to really play it up. Such a long wasted part is a sin
> > >> in current busy time. Those "ya khwaja ji, moinuddin, gareeb nawaz" are
> > >> without any lyrical or music value". So, I think the start itself is
> > >> badly thought up.
> > >>
> > >> But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. A
> > >> typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, "logically-built up"
> > >> lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar.
> > >>
> > >> Khwaja Mere Khwaja
> > >> Dil Mein Sama ja
> > >> Bebaso ki Taqdeer
> > >> Tu ne hai sawari
> > >>
> > >> There is no rhyming, no deep devotion. All that "dil mein sama ja" type
> > >> of phrases had been used a 1000 times in cheap ladki-pataao songs in 60s
> >
> > >> and here he comes up with that in a 21st century devotional song.
> > >>
> > >> I would say that the major failure of the song remains in the poor
> > >> lyrics. Then, it fails in arrangements of vocals. None of the voices
> > >> carry and ethos and pathos. They are just singing an any song, not a
> > >> religious song for the most respected muslim personality of Indian
> > >> subcontinent. pronunciations are also not clear. that bebaso ki taqdeer
> > >> tu ne hai sanwari, has bebaso and tu ne pronounced so pooorly that one
> > >> has to strain to hear it and make the meaning of it. Sad that it is our
> > >> man himself.
> > >>
> > >> And then "Tere darbaar mein khwaza n

Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and exposure of the elders)

[dasara bullodu]

I would agree with rawat partially
lyrics are substandard and so is arr's vocals ... he sounds very nasal

On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Pradeepan R wrote:

>   Rawat, lets understand one simple thing first:
> Music and its taste is very highly subjective.  Its not something that
> everyone can objectively define as to what is good or bad.
> can anyone measure likability of music like blood pressure !!
> I can't understand why you fail to recognise this fact, instead of using
> terms like 'blind-faith' !!
>
>
>  On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:32 AM, V S Rawat  wrote:
>
>>   As I said, when someone tend to like everything, it could be that his
>> artist is really flawlessly consistently great, or it could be that we
>> love the artist so much that we can't make ourselves see his rare
>> drawbacks.
>>
>> I am not just giving a high handed judgment rendering khwaja poor. I
>> have elaborated point by point what I find it lacking in.
>>
>> Yeah, in that mail I did declare Arziyan great without going point by
>> point why i find it great. Some day I will analyze it.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> --
>> Rawat
>>
>>
>> On 3/13/2009 7:22 AM India Time, _Chord_ wrote:
>>
>> > Wow, Rawat, tell us how you really feel. I pretty much disagree with you
>> completely. I love Khwaja and Arziyan both the same.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com , V
>> S Rawat  wrote:
>> >> On 3/12/2009 3:11 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb Farooq_ wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> in fact we watched
>> >>> JA together and during Khwaja mere khwaja as I mentioned that music
>> >>> is by ARR, he said I did not see anything special (sadly enough. may
>> >>> because it was in bad quality. also we know that ARR's music grows
>> >>> but he does not).
>> >> I am a known JA basher so I thought I can say about this song also.
>> >>
>> >> khwaja song might be holding additional value for muslims due to its
>> >> religious connotations, and for general fans it might have got some
>> high
>> >> weightage due to the anecdotes of ARR having composed it already and
>> >> then AG using it in the film.
>> >>
>> >> But as a song, I find khwaja song quite barren and monotonous if I can
>> >> say that. It is a sort of "introvert" song giving a feel that a person
>> >> must be singing it within his heart and mind. It is his personal
>> >> pleasure. Others would not be able to connect to it.
>> >>
>> >> Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to
>>
>> >> say and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. It is
>> more
>> >> like the sounds generated when a player "tunes up" his instruments
>> >> before starting to really play it up. Such a long wasted part is a sin
>> >> in current busy time. Those "ya khwaja ji, moinuddin, gareeb nawaz" are
>>
>> >> without any lyrical or music value". So, I think the start itself is
>> >> badly thought up.
>> >>
>> >> But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. A
>> >> typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, "logically-built up"
>> >> lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar.
>> >>
>> >> Khwaja Mere Khwaja
>> >> Dil Mein Sama ja
>> >> Bebaso ki Taqdeer
>> >> Tu ne hai sawari
>> >>
>> >> There is no rhyming, no deep devotion. All that "dil mein sama ja" type
>>
>> >> of phrases had been used a 1000 times in cheap ladki-pataao songs in
>> 60s
>> >> and here he comes up with that in a 21st century devotional song.
>> >>
>> >> I would say that the major failure of the song remains in the poor
>> >> lyrics. Then, it fails in arrangements of vocals. None of the voices
>> >> carry and ethos and pathos. They are just singing an any song, not a
>> >> religious song for the most respected muslim personality of Indian
>> >> subcontinent. pronunciations are also not clear. that bebaso ki taqdeer
>>
>> >> tu ne hai sanwari, has bebaso and tu ne pronounced so pooorly that one
>> >> has to strain to hear it and make the meaning of it. Sad that it is our
>>
>> >> man himself.
>> >>
>> >> And then "Tere darbaar mein khwaza noor ko mainne dekha" has noor
>> >> pronounced so poorly by our man himself, and then there are alaaps, and
>>
>> >> then the music gives the impression that the line is going to be
>> >> repeated, tere darbar mein khwaja - but they drop the line
>> >> unceremoniously and begin another line - sar jhukaate hain auliya.
>> >> What was so great in mentioning that auliya sar jhukate hain, so what,
>> >> is that why you feel respect for him? I think the respect should have
>> >> come from within, not due to seeing how others are respecting him.
>> >>
>> >> and then "tu hai  khwaja - rutaba hai pyara" chahne se tujhko
>> >> mustafa ko paya" that xxx is still not clear to my aging ears. and
>> >> lastly that "hai mere peer ka sadqa, tera daman hai thama," tali hai
>> >> bala hamari, chhaya hai khumar tera, jitna bhi rashq karein beshaq, to
>> >> ab hai XXX mere khwaja, tere kadmo ko mere rahnuma nahin chhodna
>> gawara.
>> >> I don't get what exactly is the concept.

Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and exposure of the elders)

[Mohamed Hashir]

Rawat,
I respect your openion though i dont agree to them in any line.I think this
is one of the best of ARR as a singer.Theres lot of feeling in his voice.

*"But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. A
typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, "logically-built up"
lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar."*
**
**
your main allegation agains this song was for the lyrics.
I think your hatred for the lyrics is because you thought its by Javed
saab.But that was a criminal mistake.when you analise the lyrics you should
have make sure who the lyricist is.A glance thorough the cd cover can give
the answer,'if you do have it'..
Lyrics of this song was by KASHIF if I remember right.I am away from home so
i am not able to check it now.

Please buy original CDs before reviewing it.

regards,

hashir

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 5:14 PM, V S Rawat  wrote:

>   On 3/12/2009 3:11 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb Farooq_ wrote:
>
> > in fact we watched
> > JA together and during Khwaja mere khwaja as I mentioned that music
> > is by ARR, he said I did not see anything special (sadly enough. may
> > because it was in bad quality. also we know that ARR's music grows
> > but he does not).
>
> I am a known JA basher so I thought I can say about this song also.
>
> khwaja song might be holding additional value for muslims due to its
> religious connotations, and for general fans it might have got some high
> weightage due to the anecdotes of ARR having composed it already and
> then AG using it in the film.
>
> But as a song, I find khwaja song quite barren and monotonous if I can
> say that. It is a sort of "introvert" song giving a feel that a person
> must be singing it within his heart and mind. It is his personal
> pleasure. Others would not be able to connect to it.
>
> Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to
> say and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. It is more
> like the sounds generated when a player "tunes up" his instruments
> before starting to really play it up. Such a long wasted part is a sin
> in current busy time. Those "ya khwaja ji, moinuddin, gareeb nawaz" are
> without any lyrical or music value". So, I think the start itself is
> badly thought up.
>
> But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. A
> typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, "logically-built up"
> lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar.
>
> Khwaja Mere Khwaja
> Dil Mein Sama ja
> Bebaso ki Taqdeer
> Tu ne hai sawari
>
> There is no rhyming, no deep devotion. All that "dil mein sama ja" type
> of phrases had been used a 1000 times in cheap ladki-pataao songs in 60s
> and here he comes up with that in a 21st century devotional song.
>
> I would say that the major failure of the song remains in the poor
> lyrics. Then, it fails in arrangements of vocals. None of the voices
> carry and ethos and pathos. They are just singing an any song, not a
> religious song for the most respected muslim personality of Indian
> subcontinent. pronunciations are also not clear. that bebaso ki taqdeer
> tu ne hai sanwari, has bebaso and tu ne pronounced so pooorly that one
> has to strain to hear it and make the meaning of it. Sad that it is our
> man himself.
>
> And then "Tere darbaar mein khwaza noor ko mainne dekha" has noor
> pronounced so poorly by our man himself, and then there are alaaps, and
> then the music gives the impression that the line is going to be
> repeated, tere darbar mein khwaja - but they drop the line
> unceremoniously and begin another line - sar jhukaate hain auliya.
> What was so great in mentioning that auliya sar jhukate hain, so what,
> is that why you feel respect for him? I think the respect should have
> come from within, not due to seeing how others are respecting him.
>
> and then "tu hai  khwaja - rutaba hai pyara" chahne se tujhko
> mustafa ko paya" that xxx is still not clear to my aging ears. and
> lastly that "hai mere peer ka sadqa, tera daman hai thama," tali hai
> bala hamari, chhaya hai khumar tera, jitna bhi rashq karein beshaq, to
> ab hai XXX mere khwaja, tere kadmo ko mere rahnuma nahin chhodna gawara.
> I don't get what exactly is the concept. No rhyming, no poetry, just
> some words have got hammerred in. It must be the poorest lyrics by Javed.
>
> I would say that ARR's voice is also not as sweet enough as he is famed
> for, there is a rare shrillness, a hollow in ARR's voice that I don't
> remember having heard in any other song. May be he was trying a new
> voice but it didn't suit my ears.
>
> all the internal aalaaps also are confusing, making it a classical song.
> They are not even bringing a sense of a trance.
>
> And as I already said once that JA music was a personal music and didn't
> reflect the lavishness of the film.
>
> I think I can describe now what I meant by that personal vs lavishness.
> Listen to the music between 3:40 - 4:05. That Persian sort of. Now, that
> is what 

Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and exposure of the elders)

[Shamil Sharif]

give him some more time, he will be back..
its Rahman's music..


Jai ho!!!
 
AR Rahman - His music for ears for years





From: Pradeepan R 
To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:29:35 AM
Subject: Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the 
attitudes and exposure of the elders)


Rawat, lets understand one simple thing first:
Music and its taste is very highly subjective.  
Its not something that everyone can objectively define as to what is good or 
bad. 
can anyone measure likability of music like blood pressure !!
I can't understand why you fail to recognise this fact, instead of using terms 
like 'blind-faith' !!




On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:32 AM, V S Rawat  wrote:

As I said, when someone tend to like everything, it could be that his 
artist is really flawlessly consistently great, or it could be that we 
love the artist so much that we can't make ourselves see his rare drawbacks.

I am not just giving a high handed judgment rendering khwaja poor. I 
have elaborated point by point what I find it lacking in.

Yeah, in that mail I did declare Arziyan great without going point by 
point why i find it great. Some day I will analyze it.

Thanks.
--
Rawat


On 3/13/2009 7:22 AM India Time, _Chord_ wrote:

> Wow, Rawat, tell us how you really feel. I pretty much disagree with you 
> completely. I love Khwaja and Arziyan both the same. 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, V S Rawat  wrote:
>> On 3/12/2009 3:11 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb Farooq_ wrote:
>>
>>> in fact we watched
>>> JA together and during Khwaja mere khwaja as I mentioned that music
>>> is by ARR, he said I did not see anything special (sadly enough. may
>>> because it was in bad quality. also we know that ARR's music grows
>>> but he does not).
>> I am a known JA basher so I thought I can say about this song also.
>>
>> khwaja song might be holding additional value for muslims due to its 
>> religious connotations, and for general fans it might have got some high 
>> weightage due to the anecdotes of ARR having composed it already and 
>> then AG using it in the film.
>>
>> But as a song, I find khwaja song quite barren and monotonous if I can 
>> say that. It is a sort of "introvert" song giving a feel that a person 
>> must be singing it within his heart and mind. It is his personal 
>> pleasure. Others would not be able to connect to it.
>>
>> Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to 
>> say and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. It is more 
>> like the sounds generated when a player "tunes up" his instruments 
>> before starting to really play it up. Such a long wasted part is a sin 
>> in current busy time. Those "ya khwaja ji, moinuddin, gareeb nawaz" are 
>> without any lyrical or music value". So, I think the start itself is 
>> badly thought up.
>>
>> But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. A 
>> typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, "logically-built up" 
>> lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar.
>>
>> Khwaja Mere Khwaja
>> Dil Mein Sama ja
>> Bebaso ki Taqdeer
>> Tu ne hai sawari
>>
>> There is no rhyming, no deep devotion. All that "dil mein sama ja" type 
>> of phrases had been used a 1000 times in cheap ladki-pataao songs in 60s 
>> and here he comes up with that in a 21st century devotional song.
>>
>> I would say that the major failure of the song remains in the poor 
>> lyrics. Then, it fails in arrangements of vocals. None of the voices 
>> carry and ethos and pathos. They are just singing an any song, not a 
>> religious song for the most respected muslim personality of Indian 
>> subcontinent. pronunciations are also not clear. that bebaso ki taqdeer 
>> tu ne hai sanwari, has bebaso and tu ne pronounced so pooorly that one 
>> has to strain to hear it and make the meaning of it. Sad that it is our 
>> man himself.
>>
>> And then "Tere darbaar mein khwaza noor ko mainne dekha" has noor 
>> pronounced so poorly by our man himself, and then there are alaaps, and 
>> then the music gives the impression that the line is going to be 
>> repeated, tere darbar mein khwaja - but they drop the line 
>> unceremoniously and begin another line - sar jhukaate hain auliya. 
>> What was so great in mentioning that auliya sar jhukate hain, so what, 
>> is that why you feel respect for him? I think the respect should have 
>> come from within, not due to seeing how others are respe

Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and exposure of the elders)

[Pradeepan R]

Rawat, lets understand one simple thing first:
Music and its taste is very highly subjective. Its not something that
everyone can objectively define as to what is good or bad.
can anyone measure likability of music like blood pressure !!
I can't understand why you fail to recognise this fact, instead of using
terms like 'blind-faith' !!


On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:32 AM, V S Rawat  wrote:

>   As I said, when someone tend to like everything, it could be that his
> artist is really flawlessly consistently great, or it could be that we
> love the artist so much that we can't make ourselves see his rare
> drawbacks.
>
> I am not just giving a high handed judgment rendering khwaja poor. I
> have elaborated point by point what I find it lacking in.
>
> Yeah, in that mail I did declare Arziyan great without going point by
> point why i find it great. Some day I will analyze it.
>
> Thanks.
> --
> Rawat
>
>
> On 3/13/2009 7:22 AM India Time, _Chord_ wrote:
>
> > Wow, Rawat, tell us how you really feel. I pretty much disagree with you
> completely. I love Khwaja and Arziyan both the same.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com , V
> S Rawat  wrote:
> >> On 3/12/2009 3:11 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb Farooq_ wrote:
> >>
> >>> in fact we watched
> >>> JA together and during Khwaja mere khwaja as I mentioned that music
> >>> is by ARR, he said I did not see anything special (sadly enough. may
> >>> because it was in bad quality. also we know that ARR's music grows
> >>> but he does not).
> >> I am a known JA basher so I thought I can say about this song also.
> >>
> >> khwaja song might be holding additional value for muslims due to its
> >> religious connotations, and for general fans it might have got some high
>
> >> weightage due to the anecdotes of ARR having composed it already and
> >> then AG using it in the film.
> >>
> >> But as a song, I find khwaja song quite barren and monotonous if I can
> >> say that. It is a sort of "introvert" song giving a feel that a person
> >> must be singing it within his heart and mind. It is his personal
> >> pleasure. Others would not be able to connect to it.
> >>
> >> Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to
> >> say and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. It is more
>
> >> like the sounds generated when a player "tunes up" his instruments
> >> before starting to really play it up. Such a long wasted part is a sin
> >> in current busy time. Those "ya khwaja ji, moinuddin, gareeb nawaz" are
> >> without any lyrical or music value". So, I think the start itself is
> >> badly thought up.
> >>
> >> But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. A
> >> typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, "logically-built up"
> >> lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar.
> >>
> >> Khwaja Mere Khwaja
> >> Dil Mein Sama ja
> >> Bebaso ki Taqdeer
> >> Tu ne hai sawari
> >>
> >> There is no rhyming, no deep devotion. All that "dil mein sama ja" type
> >> of phrases had been used a 1000 times in cheap ladki-pataao songs in 60s
>
> >> and here he comes up with that in a 21st century devotional song.
> >>
> >> I would say that the major failure of the song remains in the poor
> >> lyrics. Then, it fails in arrangements of vocals. None of the voices
> >> carry and ethos and pathos. They are just singing an any song, not a
> >> religious song for the most respected muslim personality of Indian
> >> subcontinent. pronunciations are also not clear. that bebaso ki taqdeer
> >> tu ne hai sanwari, has bebaso and tu ne pronounced so pooorly that one
> >> has to strain to hear it and make the meaning of it. Sad that it is our
> >> man himself.
> >>
> >> And then "Tere darbaar mein khwaza noor ko mainne dekha" has noor
> >> pronounced so poorly by our man himself, and then there are alaaps, and
> >> then the music gives the impression that the line is going to be
> >> repeated, tere darbar mein khwaja - but they drop the line
> >> unceremoniously and begin another line - sar jhukaate hain auliya.
> >> What was so great in mentioning that auliya sar jhukate hain, so what,
> >> is that why you feel respect for him? I think the respect should have
> >> come from within, not due to seeing how others are respecting him.
> >>
> >> and then "tu hai  khwaja - rutaba hai pyara" chahne se tujhko
> >> mustafa ko paya" that xxx is still not clear to my aging ears. and
> >> lastly that "hai mere peer ka sadqa, tera daman hai thama," tali hai
> >> bala hamari, chhaya hai khumar tera, jitna bhi rashq karein beshaq, to
> >> ab hai XXX mere khwaja, tere kadmo ko mere rahnuma nahin chhodna gawara.
>
> >> I don't get what exactly is the concept. No rhyming, no poetry, just
> >> some words have got hammerred in. It must be the poorest lyrics by
> Javed.
> >>
> >> I would say that ARR's voice is also not as sweet enough as he is famed
> >> for, there is a rare shrillness, a hollow in ARR's voice that I don't
> >> remember having hear

Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and exposure of the elders)

[Thulasi Ram]

ya, u have listed points that "u" have found lacking in the song and it
doesnt necessarily need to coincide with other perceptions, always. there r
innumerous people who like this song and m one among those. okay, that
doesnt mean that u have to like song because innumerous people like the
song.
i have seen people even pointing out dozens of -ve points against ARRs vande
matharam and infact, ARRs humma humma and the "worst of the best" being some
average opinion on Roja album (remember reading it years before in tamil
magazine). but majority of the people, apart from ARR fans, know that they
are brilliant in their own way.

there cant be anything in the world that can be appreciated by everyone.
there are always some minority of the people who dislike a fact that is
largely appreciated and hailed over. unfortunately, in this case, u r one
among that minority! its like when the whole world hails the SDM success,
some people in bollywood still tend to hate the movie that speaks about hope
and optimism. its sometimes better to ignore the minority.. that's what i've
been understanding in recent times.

On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 1:32 AM, V S Rawat  wrote:

>   As I said, when someone tend to like everything, it could be that his
> artist is really flawlessly consistently great, or it could be that we
> love the artist so much that we can't make ourselves see his rare
> drawbacks.
>
> I am not just giving a high handed judgment rendering khwaja poor. I
> have elaborated point by point what I find it lacking in.
>
> Yeah, in that mail I did declare Arziyan great without going point by
> point why i find it great. Some day I will analyze it.
>
> Thanks.
> --
> Rawat
>
>
> On 3/13/2009 7:22 AM India Time, _Chord_ wrote:
>
> > Wow, Rawat, tell us how you really feel. I pretty much disagree with you
> completely. I love Khwaja and Arziyan both the same.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com , V
> S Rawat  wrote:
> >> On 3/12/2009 3:11 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb Farooq_ wrote:
> >>
> >>> in fact we watched
> >>> JA together and during Khwaja mere khwaja as I mentioned that music
> >>> is by ARR, he said I did not see anything special (sadly enough. may
> >>> because it was in bad quality. also we know that ARR's music grows
> >>> but he does not).
> >> I am a known JA basher so I thought I can say about this song also.
> >>
> >> khwaja song might be holding additional value for muslims due to its
> >> religious connotations, and for general fans it might have got some high
>
> >> weightage due to the anecdotes of ARR having composed it already and
> >> then AG using it in the film.
> >>
> >> But as a song, I find khwaja song quite barren and monotonous if I can
> >> say that. It is a sort of "introvert" song giving a feel that a person
> >> must be singing it within his heart and mind. It is his personal
> >> pleasure. Others would not be able to connect to it.
> >>
> >> Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to
> >> say and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. It is more
>
> >> like the sounds generated when a player "tunes up" his instruments
> >> before starting to really play it up. Such a long wasted part is a sin
> >> in current busy time. Those "ya khwaja ji, moinuddin, gareeb nawaz" are
> >> without any lyrical or music value". So, I think the start itself is
> >> badly thought up.
> >>
> >> But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. A
> >> typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, "logically-built up"
> >> lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar.
> >>
> >> Khwaja Mere Khwaja
> >> Dil Mein Sama ja
> >> Bebaso ki Taqdeer
> >> Tu ne hai sawari
> >>
> >> There is no rhyming, no deep devotion. All that "dil mein sama ja" type
> >> of phrases had been used a 1000 times in cheap ladki-pataao songs in 60s
>
> >> and here he comes up with that in a 21st century devotional song.
> >>
> >> I would say that the major failure of the song remains in the poor
> >> lyrics. Then, it fails in arrangements of vocals. None of the voices
> >> carry and ethos and pathos. They are just singing an any song, not a
> >> religious song for the most respected muslim personality of Indian
> >> subcontinent. pronunciations are also not clear. that bebaso ki taqdeer
> >> tu ne hai sanwari, has bebaso and tu ne pronounced so pooorly that one
> >> has to strain to hear it and make the meaning of it. Sad that it is our
> >> man himself.
> >>
> >> And then "Tere darbaar mein khwaza noor ko mainne dekha" has noor
> >> pronounced so poorly by our man himself, and then there are alaaps, and
> >> then the music gives the impression that the line is going to be
> >> repeated, tere darbar mein khwaja - but they drop the line
> >> unceremoniously and begin another line - sar jhukaate hain auliya.
> >> What was so great in mentioning that auliya sar jhukate hain, so what,
> >> is that why you feel respect for him? I think the respect should have
> >> come fr

Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and exposure of the elders)

[Shah Navas]

I disagree.

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 1:44 PM, V S Rawat  wrote:

>   On 3/12/2009 3:11 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb Farooq_ wrote:
>
> > in fact we watched
> > JA together and during Khwaja mere khwaja as I mentioned that music
> > is by ARR, he said I did not see anything special (sadly enough. may
> > because it was in bad quality. also we know that ARR's music grows
> > but he does not).
>
> I am a known JA basher so I thought I can say about this song also.
>
> khwaja song might be holding additional value for muslims due to its
> religious connotations, and for general fans it might have got some high
> weightage due to the anecdotes of ARR having composed it already and
> then AG using it in the film.
>
> But as a song, I find khwaja song quite barren and monotonous if I can
> say that. It is a sort of "introvert" song giving a feel that a person
> must be singing it within his heart and mind. It is his personal
> pleasure. Others would not be able to connect to it.
>
> Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to
> say and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. It is more
> like the sounds generated when a player "tunes up" his instruments
> before starting to really play it up. Such a long wasted part is a sin
> in current busy time. Those "ya khwaja ji, moinuddin, gareeb nawaz" are
> without any lyrical or music value". So, I think the start itself is
> badly thought up.
>
> But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. A
> typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, "logically-built up"
> lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar.
>
> Khwaja Mere Khwaja
> Dil Mein Sama ja
> Bebaso ki Taqdeer
> Tu ne hai sawari
>
> There is no rhyming, no deep devotion. All that "dil mein sama ja" type
> of phrases had been used a 1000 times in cheap ladki-pataao songs in 60s
> and here he comes up with that in a 21st century devotional song.
>
> I would say that the major failure of the song remains in the poor
> lyrics. Then, it fails in arrangements of vocals. None of the voices
> carry and ethos and pathos. They are just singing an any song, not a
> religious song for the most respected muslim personality of Indian
> subcontinent. pronunciations are also not clear. that bebaso ki taqdeer
> tu ne hai sanwari, has bebaso and tu ne pronounced so pooorly that one
> has to strain to hear it and make the meaning of it. Sad that it is our
> man himself.
>
> And then "Tere darbaar mein khwaza noor ko mainne dekha" has noor
> pronounced so poorly by our man himself, and then there are alaaps, and
> then the music gives the impression that the line is going to be
> repeated, tere darbar mein khwaja - but they drop the line
> unceremoniously and begin another line - sar jhukaate hain auliya.
> What was so great in mentioning that auliya sar jhukate hain, so what,
> is that why you feel respect for him? I think the respect should have
> come from within, not due to seeing how others are respecting him.
>
> and then "tu hai  khwaja - rutaba hai pyara" chahne se tujhko
> mustafa ko paya" that xxx is still not clear to my aging ears. and
> lastly that "hai mere peer ka sadqa, tera daman hai thama," tali hai
> bala hamari, chhaya hai khumar tera, jitna bhi rashq karein beshaq, to
> ab hai XXX mere khwaja, tere kadmo ko mere rahnuma nahin chhodna gawara.
> I don't get what exactly is the concept. No rhyming, no poetry, just
> some words have got hammerred in. It must be the poorest lyrics by Javed.
>
> I would say that ARR's voice is also not as sweet enough as he is famed
> for, there is a rare shrillness, a hollow in ARR's voice that I don't
> remember having heard in any other song. May be he was trying a new
> voice but it didn't suit my ears.
>
> all the internal aalaaps also are confusing, making it a classical song.
> They are not even bringing a sense of a trance.
>
> And as I already said once that JA music was a personal music and didn't
> reflect the lavishness of the film.
>
> I think I can describe now what I meant by that personal vs lavishness.
> Listen to the music between 3:40 - 4:05. That Persian sort of. Now, that
> is what I call a royal music, that has lavishness, that has luxury, that
> is group music, public music. Also the instrument that stars playing at
> the backdrop at about 6:10 and continues till the end of song. that
> single instrument is giving a royal touch to the song. That type of
> music is what I expected to be everywhere in JA music and background,
> but no, we didn't get that. Our man had different ideas about music
> suitable for the emperor of India. Compare the above two sounds to the
> sound at 1:20-1:45. Now this 1:20 sound is what I call a personal sound,
> lacking royal touch. It is a commoner's, a poor man's sound, now
> suitable for a period film.
>
> Seeing so many members liking the song so much, mentioning it as their
> most fav song, etc., I tried to listen to it several times, but this is
> one song of

Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and exposure of the elders)

[Chord]

There are quite a few ARR songs that I don't particularly like, but for me, 
Khwaja is not one of them.  Oh well, to each their own.



--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, V S Rawat  wrote:
>
> As I said, when someone tend to like everything, it could be that his 
> artist is really flawlessly consistently great, or it could be that we 
> love the artist so much that we can't make ourselves see his rare drawbacks.
> 
> I am not just giving a high handed judgment rendering khwaja poor. I 
> have elaborated point by point what I find it lacking in.
> 
> Yeah, in that mail I did declare Arziyan great without going point by 
> point why i find it great. Some day I will analyze it.
> 
> Thanks.
> --
> Rawat
> 
> On 3/13/2009 7:22 AM India Time, _Chord_ wrote:
> 
> > Wow, Rawat, tell us how you really feel.  I pretty much disagree with you 
> > completely.  I love Khwaja and Arziyan both the same.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, V S Rawat  wrote:
> >> On 3/12/2009 3:11 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb Farooq_ wrote:
> >>
> >>> in fact we watched
> >>> JA together and during Khwaja mere khwaja as I mentioned that music
> >>> is by ARR, he said I did not see anything special (sadly enough. may
> >>> because it was in bad quality. also we know that ARR's music grows
> >>> but he does not).
> >> I am a known JA basher so I thought I can say about this song also.
> >>
> >> khwaja song might be holding additional value for muslims due to its 
> >> religious connotations, and for general fans it might have got some high 
> >> weightage due to the anecdotes of ARR having composed it already and 
> >> then AG using it in the film.
> >>
> >> But as a song, I find khwaja song quite barren and monotonous if I can 
> >> say that. It is a sort of "introvert" song giving a feel that a person 
> >> must be singing it within his heart and mind. It is his personal 
> >> pleasure. Others would not be able to connect to it.
> >>
> >> Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to 
> >> say and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. It is more 
> >> like the sounds generated when a player "tunes up" his instruments 
> >> before starting to really play it up. Such a long wasted part is a sin 
> >> in current busy time. Those "ya khwaja ji, moinuddin, gareeb nawaz" are 
> >> without any lyrical or music value". So, I think the start itself is 
> >> badly thought up.
> >>
> >> But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. A 
> >> typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, "logically-built up" 
> >> lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar.
> >>
> >> Khwaja Mere Khwaja
> >> Dil Mein Sama ja
> >> Bebaso ki Taqdeer
> >> Tu ne hai sawari
> >>
> >> There is no rhyming, no deep devotion. All that "dil mein sama ja" type 
> >> of phrases had been used a 1000 times in cheap ladki-pataao songs in 60s 
> >> and here he comes up with that in a 21st century devotional song.
> >>
> >> I would say that the major failure of the song remains in the poor 
> >> lyrics. Then, it fails in arrangements of vocals. None of the voices 
> >> carry and ethos and pathos. They are just singing an any song, not a 
> >> religious song for the most respected muslim personality of Indian 
> >> subcontinent. pronunciations are also not clear. that bebaso ki taqdeer 
> >> tu ne hai sanwari, has bebaso and tu ne pronounced so pooorly that one 
> >> has to strain to hear it and make the meaning of it. Sad that it is our 
> >> man himself.
> >>
> >> And then "Tere darbaar mein khwaza noor ko mainne dekha" has noor 
> >> pronounced so poorly by our man himself, and then there are alaaps, and 
> >> then the music gives the impression that the line is going to be 
> >> repeated, tere darbar mein khwaja - but they drop the line 
> >> unceremoniously and begin another line- sar jhukaate hain auliya. 
> >> What was so great in mentioning that auliya sar jhukate hain, so what, 
> >> is that why you feel respect for him? I think the respect should have 
> >> come from within, not due to seeing how others are respecting him.
> >>
> >> and then "tu hai  khwaja - rutaba hai pyara" chahne se tujhko 
> >> mustafa ko paya" that xxx is still not clear to my aging ears. and 
> >> lastly that "hai mere peer ka sadqa, tera daman hai thama," tali hai 
> >> bala hamari, chhaya hai khumar tera, jitna bhi rashq karein beshaq, to 
> >> ab hai XXX mere khwaja, tere kadmo ko mere rahnuma nahin chhodna gawara. 
> >> I don't get what exactly is the concept. No rhyming, no poetry, just 
> >> some words have got hammerred in. It must be the poorest lyrics by Javed.
> >>
> >> I would say that ARR's voice is also not as sweet enough as he is famed 
> >> for, there is a rare shrillness, a hollow in ARR's voice that I don't 
> >> remember having heard in any other song. May be he was trying a new 
> >> voice but it didn't suit my ears.
> >>
> >> all the internal aalaaps also are confusing, making it a clas

Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and exposure of the elders)

[Vinayakam Murugan]

I like both Khwaja and Arziyan . Arziyan scores on the lyrics whereas Khwaja
has ARR's voice which is a definite plus though Javed and Kailash have also
done a good job.

Warm Regards
~~~
Vinayak

theregoesanotherday.blogspot.com


On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 2:07 PM, V S Rawat  wrote:

>   In khwaja song, the music between 3:40 - 4:05 and then from 6:10 till
> the the end of song --- Could anyone mention whether this (type of)
> music has been used in any other ARR album, or in JA's any other song,
> or anywhere in JA's BGM.
>
> What an ethereal sound our man has devised. I would want him to use it
> more.
>
> --
> Rawat
>
>  
>

Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and exposure of the elders)

[V S Rawat]

In khwaja song, the music between 3:40 - 4:05 and then from 6:10 till 
the the end of song --- Could anyone mention whether this (type of) 
music has been used in any other ARR album, or in JA's any other song, 
or anywhere in JA's BGM.

What an ethereal sound our man has devised. I would want him to use it more.

--
Rawat

Re: Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and exposure of the elders)

[V S Rawat]

As I said, when someone tend to like everything, it could be that his 
artist is really flawlessly consistently great, or it could be that we 
love the artist so much that we can't make ourselves see his rare drawbacks.

I am not just giving a high handed judgment rendering khwaja poor. I 
have elaborated point by point what I find it lacking in.

Yeah, in that mail I did declare Arziyan great without going point by 
point why i find it great. Some day I will analyze it.

Thanks.
--
Rawat

On 3/13/2009 7:22 AM India Time, _Chord_ wrote:

> Wow, Rawat, tell us how you really feel.  I pretty much disagree with you 
> completely.  I love Khwaja and Arziyan both the same.  
> 
> 
> 
> --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, V S Rawat  wrote:
>> On 3/12/2009 3:11 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb Farooq_ wrote:
>>
>>> in fact we watched
>>> JA together and during Khwaja mere khwaja as I mentioned that music
>>> is by ARR, he said I did not see anything special (sadly enough. may
>>> because it was in bad quality. also we know that ARR's music grows
>>> but he does not).
>> I am a known JA basher so I thought I can say about this song also.
>>
>> khwaja song might be holding additional value for muslims due to its 
>> religious connotations, and for general fans it might have got some high 
>> weightage due to the anecdotes of ARR having composed it already and 
>> then AG using it in the film.
>>
>> But as a song, I find khwaja song quite barren and monotonous if I can 
>> say that. It is a sort of "introvert" song giving a feel that a person 
>> must be singing it within his heart and mind. It is his personal 
>> pleasure. Others would not be able to connect to it.
>>
>> Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to 
>> say and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. It is more 
>> like the sounds generated when a player "tunes up" his instruments 
>> before starting to really play it up. Such a long wasted part is a sin 
>> in current busy time. Those "ya khwaja ji, moinuddin, gareeb nawaz" are 
>> without any lyrical or music value". So, I think the start itself is 
>> badly thought up.
>>
>> But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. A 
>> typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, "logically-built up" 
>> lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar.
>>
>> Khwaja Mere Khwaja
>> Dil Mein Sama ja
>> Bebaso ki Taqdeer
>> Tu ne hai sawari
>>
>> There is no rhyming, no deep devotion. All that "dil mein sama ja" type 
>> of phrases had been used a 1000 times in cheap ladki-pataao songs in 60s 
>> and here he comes up with that in a 21st century devotional song.
>>
>> I would say that the major failure of the song remains in the poor 
>> lyrics. Then, it fails in arrangements of vocals. None of the voices 
>> carry and ethos and pathos. They are just singing an any song, not a 
>> religious song for the most respected muslim personality of Indian 
>> subcontinent. pronunciations are also not clear. that bebaso ki taqdeer 
>> tu ne hai sanwari, has bebaso and tu ne pronounced so pooorly that one 
>> has to strain to hear it and make the meaning of it. Sad that it is our 
>> man himself.
>>
>> And then "Tere darbaar mein khwaza noor ko mainne dekha" has noor 
>> pronounced so poorly by our man himself, and then there are alaaps, and 
>> then the music gives the impression that the line is going to be 
>> repeated, tere darbar mein khwaja - but they drop the line 
>> unceremoniously and begin another line- sar jhukaate hain auliya. 
>> What was so great in mentioning that auliya sar jhukate hain, so what, 
>> is that why you feel respect for him? I think the respect should have 
>> come from within, not due to seeing how others are respecting him.
>>
>> and then "tu hai  khwaja - rutaba hai pyara" chahne se tujhko 
>> mustafa ko paya" that xxx is still not clear to my aging ears. and 
>> lastly that "hai mere peer ka sadqa, tera daman hai thama," tali hai 
>> bala hamari, chhaya hai khumar tera, jitna bhi rashq karein beshaq, to 
>> ab hai XXX mere khwaja, tere kadmo ko mere rahnuma nahin chhodna gawara. 
>> I don't get what exactly is the concept. No rhyming, no poetry, just 
>> some words have got hammerred in. It must be the poorest lyrics by Javed.
>>
>> I would say that ARR's voice is also not as sweet enough as he is famed 
>> for, there is a rare shrillness, a hollow in ARR's voice that I don't 
>> remember having heard in any other song. May be he was trying a new 
>> voice but it didn't suit my ears.
>>
>> all the internal aalaaps also are confusing, making it a classical song. 
>> They are not even bringing a sense of a trance.
>>
>> And as I already said once that JA music was a personal music and didn't 
>> reflect the lavishness of the film.
>>
>> I think I can describe now what I meant by that personal vs lavishness. 
>> Listen to the music between 3:40 - 4:05. That Persian sort of. Now, that 
>> is what I call a royal music, that has 

Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and exposure of the elders)

[Chord]

Wow, Rawat, tell us how you really feel.  I pretty much disagree with you 
completely.  I love Khwaja and Arziyan both the same.  



--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, V S Rawat  wrote:
>
> On 3/12/2009 3:11 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb Farooq_ wrote:
> 
> > in fact we watched
> > JA together and during Khwaja mere khwaja as I mentioned that music
> > is by ARR, he said I did not see anything special (sadly enough. may
> > because it was in bad quality. also we know that ARR's music grows
> > but he does not).
> 
> I am a known JA basher so I thought I can say about this song also.
> 
> khwaja song might be holding additional value for muslims due to its 
> religious connotations, and for general fans it might have got some high 
> weightage due to the anecdotes of ARR having composed it already and 
> then AG using it in the film.
> 
> But as a song, I find khwaja song quite barren and monotonous if I can 
> say that. It is a sort of "introvert" song giving a feel that a person 
> must be singing it within his heart and mind. It is his personal 
> pleasure. Others would not be able to connect to it.
> 
> Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to 
> say and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. It is more 
> like the sounds generated when a player "tunes up" his instruments 
> before starting to really play it up. Such a long wasted part is a sin 
> in current busy time. Those "ya khwaja ji, moinuddin, gareeb nawaz" are 
> without any lyrical or music value". So, I think the start itself is 
> badly thought up.
> 
> But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. A 
> typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, "logically-built up" 
> lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar.
> 
> Khwaja Mere Khwaja
> Dil Mein Sama ja
> Bebaso ki Taqdeer
> Tu ne hai sawari
> 
> There is no rhyming, no deep devotion. All that "dil mein sama ja" type 
> of phrases had been used a 1000 times in cheap ladki-pataao songs in 60s 
> and here he comes up with that in a 21st century devotional song.
> 
> I would say that the major failure of the song remains in the poor 
> lyrics. Then, it fails in arrangements of vocals. None of the voices 
> carry and ethos and pathos. They are just singing an any song, not a 
> religious song for the most respected muslim personality of Indian 
> subcontinent. pronunciations are also not clear. that bebaso ki taqdeer 
> tu ne hai sanwari, has bebaso and tu ne pronounced so pooorly that one 
> has to strain to hear it and make the meaning of it. Sad that it is our 
> man himself.
> 
> And then "Tere darbaar mein khwaza noor ko mainne dekha" has noor 
> pronounced so poorly by our man himself, and then there are alaaps, and 
> then the music gives the impression that the line is going to be 
> repeated, tere darbar mein khwaja - but they drop the line 
> unceremoniously and begin another line- sar jhukaate hain auliya. 
> What was so great in mentioning that auliya sar jhukate hain, so what, 
> is that why you feel respect for him? I think the respect should have 
> come from within, not due to seeing how others are respecting him.
> 
> and then "tu hai  khwaja - rutaba hai pyara" chahne se tujhko 
> mustafa ko paya" that xxx is still not clear to my aging ears. and 
> lastly that "hai mere peer ka sadqa, tera daman hai thama," tali hai 
> bala hamari, chhaya hai khumar tera, jitna bhi rashq karein beshaq, to 
> ab hai XXX mere khwaja, tere kadmo ko mere rahnuma nahin chhodna gawara. 
> I don't get what exactly is the concept. No rhyming, no poetry, just 
> some words have got hammerred in. It must be the poorest lyrics by Javed.
> 
> I would say that ARR's voice is also not as sweet enough as he is famed 
> for, there is a rare shrillness, a hollow in ARR's voice that I don't 
> remember having heard in any other song. May be he was trying a new 
> voice but it didn't suit my ears.
> 
> all the internal aalaaps also are confusing, making it a classical song. 
> They are not even bringing a sense of a trance.
> 
> And as I already said once that JA music was a personal music and didn't 
> reflect the lavishness of the film.
> 
> I think I can describe now what I meant by that personal vs lavishness. 
> Listen to the music between 3:40 - 4:05. That Persian sort of. Now, that 
> is what I call a royal music, that has lavishness, that has luxury, that 
> is group music, public music. Also the instrument that stars playing at 
> the backdrop at about 6:10 and continues till the end of song. that 
> single instrument is giving a royal touch to the song. That type of 
> music is what I expected to be everywhere in JA music and background, 
> but no, we didn't get that. Our man had different ideas about music 
> suitable for the emperor of India. Compare the above two sounds to the 
> sound at 1:20-1:45. Now this 1:20 sound is what I call a personal sound, 
> lacking royal touch. It is a commoner's, a poor man's sound, now

Khwaja song - my impression (Re: [arr] Let's keep in mind the attitudes and exposure of the elders)

[V S Rawat]

On 3/12/2009 3:11 PM India Time, _Jahanzeb Farooq_ wrote:

> in fact we watched
> JA together and during Khwaja mere khwaja as I mentioned that music
> is by ARR, he said I did not see anything special (sadly enough. may
> because it was in bad quality. also we know that ARR's music grows
> but he does not).

I am a known JA basher so I thought I can say about this song also.

khwaja song might be holding additional value for muslims due to its 
religious connotations, and for general fans it might have got some high 
weightage due to the anecdotes of ARR having composed it already and 
then AG using it in the film.

But as a song, I find khwaja song quite barren and monotonous if I can 
say that. It is a sort of "introvert" song giving a feel that a person 
must be singing it within his heart and mind. It is his personal 
pleasure. Others would not be able to connect to it.

Firstly, the song has some 1:20 initial alaaps that are quire boring to 
say and kill the entire beauty of song that comes after that. It is more 
like the sounds generated when a player "tunes up" his instruments 
before starting to really play it up. Such a long wasted part is a sin 
in current busy time. Those "ya khwaja ji, moinuddin, gareeb nawaz" are 
without any lyrical or music value". So, I think the start itself is 
badly thought up.

But then the song starts with lovely music BUT, BUT BUT poor lyrics. A 
typical lack of creativity in the monotonous, "logically-built up" 
lyrics as is usually the case with Javed Akhtar.

Khwaja Mere Khwaja
Dil Mein Sama ja
Bebaso ki Taqdeer
Tu ne hai sawari

There is no rhyming, no deep devotion. All that "dil mein sama ja" type 
of phrases had been used a 1000 times in cheap ladki-pataao songs in 60s 
and here he comes up with that in a 21st century devotional song.

I would say that the major failure of the song remains in the poor 
lyrics. Then, it fails in arrangements of vocals. None of the voices 
carry and ethos and pathos. They are just singing an any song, not a 
religious song for the most respected muslim personality of Indian 
subcontinent. pronunciations are also not clear. that bebaso ki taqdeer 
tu ne hai sanwari, has bebaso and tu ne pronounced so pooorly that one 
has to strain to hear it and make the meaning of it. Sad that it is our 
man himself.

And then "Tere darbaar mein khwaza noor ko mainne dekha" has noor 
pronounced so poorly by our man himself, and then there are alaaps, and 
then the music gives the impression that the line is going to be 
repeated, tere darbar mein khwaja - but they drop the line 
unceremoniously and begin another line- sar jhukaate hain auliya. 
What was so great in mentioning that auliya sar jhukate hain, so what, 
is that why you feel respect for him? I think the respect should have 
come from within, not due to seeing how others are respecting him.

and then "tu hai  khwaja - rutaba hai pyara" chahne se tujhko 
mustafa ko paya" that xxx is still not clear to my aging ears. and 
lastly that "hai mere peer ka sadqa, tera daman hai thama," tali hai 
bala hamari, chhaya hai khumar tera, jitna bhi rashq karein beshaq, to 
ab hai XXX mere khwaja, tere kadmo ko mere rahnuma nahin chhodna gawara. 
I don't get what exactly is the concept. No rhyming, no poetry, just 
some words have got hammerred in. It must be the poorest lyrics by Javed.

I would say that ARR's voice is also not as sweet enough as he is famed 
for, there is a rare shrillness, a hollow in ARR's voice that I don't 
remember having heard in any other song. May be he was trying a new 
voice but it didn't suit my ears.

all the internal aalaaps also are confusing, making it a classical song. 
They are not even bringing a sense of a trance.

And as I already said once that JA music was a personal music and didn't 
reflect the lavishness of the film.

I think I can describe now what I meant by that personal vs lavishness. 
Listen to the music between 3:40 - 4:05. That Persian sort of. Now, that 
is what I call a royal music, that has lavishness, that has luxury, that 
is group music, public music. Also the instrument that stars playing at 
the backdrop at about 6:10 and continues till the end of song. that 
single instrument is giving a royal touch to the song. That type of 
music is what I expected to be everywhere in JA music and background, 
but no, we didn't get that. Our man had different ideas about music 
suitable for the emperor of India. Compare the above two sounds to the 
sound at 1:20-1:45. Now this 1:20 sound is what I call a personal sound, 
lacking royal touch. It is a commoner's, a poor man's sound, now 
suitable for a period film.

Seeing so many members liking the song so much, mentioning it as their 
most fav song, etc., I tried to listen to it several times, but this is 
one song of ARR that I found lacking in almost each and every aspect.
--

Compare that to D6's Arziyaan. Now, Arziyaan is a prayer song that 
carries you with it and you forget yourself love th