Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[tgaltamore]

  I know I missed alot of names but so far all that are being mentioned I 
definitely agree with. They all deserve a big Thank You for the great job that 
they do, and have always done. There are 2 more who had always been there for 
us, though they have left. Janet Lewis who was absolutely the best manager they 
ever had IMHO, and Mark Dooling who was a close second. This is not to say that 
Georgeann Beville isn't doing a great job filling those shoes, she's been 
terrific. I can only imagine that its been even tougher for her being in her 
position during the transitions and policy changes. Hats off to her. 
   In regards to the policy changes that may seem disagreeable to some 
(myself included at times), 
BMC's changes are not malicious or vindictive, they are in part, simply avenues 
of revenue that in the past were not tapped or not realized. It's a different 
mind set than what we are used to, however it's not bad, just different. BMC 
took a risk on buying Remedy from Peregrine. I'm sure they have found many 
unhappy surprises along the way. The purchase no doubt raised their overhead 
considerably, but they took the risk. Not out of the goodness of their hearts, 
no one would, or did. They did so because they are entrepreneurs and did so at 
the expectation of making a profit, which is not a dirty word by the way. They 
have tried to be accommodating, and still are when its really needed. Yes, 
things have changed, some for good, some for not so good thats pretty much how 
liife changes in general. Expecting BMC to run Remedy like it was an entirely 
seperate entity just isn't realistic, it needs to work within their current 
business infrastructure. 

Anyways, thats my 2 cents.

Best Regards,
Tom



- Original Message -
From: Tony Worthington 
Date: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:14 am
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG

> I second Grace, Virginia and Barbara V. And you can't forget 
> Doug Reif... 
> (and the other Doug) ;-)
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tony Worthington
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 262-703-5911
> 
> 
> 
> "Pickering, Christopher" 
> 
> Sent by: "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)" 
> 
> 12/11/2006 10:53 AM
> Please respond to
> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> 
> 
> To
> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> cc
> 
> Subject
> Re: BMC Support Doesn't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ** 
> AMEN to that. Virginia in Servers and Grace in Licenses to add 
> a couple 
> more.
> 
> C
> 
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 11:50 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't
> 
> ** 
> Add to that list Chris Pettibon, Jesse Richardson, Rich Denman, 
> Jane 
> Stuckey, Derek Bennett, and Bamba - all very knowledgeable and 
> helpful 
> folks. That's not a complete list, and I apologize to those 
> whose names 
> my brain is too feeble to still remember, but the point is that 
> the 
> problem isn't that there aren't good people IN support. The 
> problem is 
> that there don't seem to be good policies coming from BMC to 
> allow Remedy 
> support to be as good as it could be. 
> 
> Viva la ARSList!
> 
> Rick
> 
> On 12/11/06, Joe DeSouza wrote: 
> ** 
> I sort of agree here but there are just these certain 
> individuals at 
> Remedy support I don't mind dealing with as my experience with 
> them has 
> been more than satisfactory. To name a couple, I think Alfred 
> from the 
> Server Support team is one of their most brilliant server 
> resources, and 
> recently I had a very pleasant experience with Barbara from the 
> application support team.. I think both of them are based in 
> California.. 
> 
> If Alfred and Barbara are reading this, keep it up, you guys rock!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Joe D'Souza
> Remedy Developer / Consultant,
> BearingPoint,
> Virginia.
> 
> 
> - Original Message 
> From: "Meyer, Jennifer" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:37:01 AM 
> Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't
> 
> Gee, Barry, I've noticed that, too.
> 
> At my last position, we kept a running total on our whiteboard. Every
> time we called support, we logged who actually solved the 
> problem, our
> admin team or theirs. Their team remained with a 0 total. 
> 
> Come to think of it, I don't actually call BMC support: I'm just plain
> turned off. If our morale is low, how must the former Remedy
> personnel's be?
> 
> J Meyer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> F

Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Rick Cook]

Yeah, I bet that quite a few familiar names aren't there any more.
Sometimes people just move on to something better, but sometimes corporate
bean counters make other opportunities look more attractive than staying
put.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Luebbe, Tom
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:17 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't

>From what I heard last week, Grace is not longer employed by BMC. 

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Worthington
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:14 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: [ARSLIST] BMC Support Doesn't

I second Grace, Virginia and Barbara V.  And you can't forget Doug Reif... 
(and the other Doug) ;-)


--
Tony Worthington
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
262-703-5911



"Pickering, Christopher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)" 

12/11/2006 10:53 AM
Please respond to
arslist@ARSLIST.ORG


To
arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
cc

Subject
Re: BMC Support Doesn't






** 
AMEN to that.  Virginia in Servers and Grace in Licenses to add a couple

more.
 
C

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 11:50 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't

** 
Add to that list Chris Pettibon, Jesse Richardson, Rich Denman, Jane 
Stuckey, Derek Bennett, and Bamba - all very knowledgeable and helpful 
folks.  That's not a complete list, and I apologize to those whose names

my brain is too feeble to still remember, but the point is that the 
problem isn't that there aren't good people IN support.  The problem is 
that there don't seem to be good policies coming from BMC to allow
Remedy 
support to be as good as it could be. 
 
Viva la ARSList!
 
Rick
 
On 12/11/06, Joe DeSouza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
** 
I sort of agree here but there are just these certain individuals at 
Remedy support I don't mind dealing with as my experience with them has 
been more than satisfactory. To name a couple, I think Alfred from the 
Server Support team is one of their most brilliant server resources, and

recently I had a very pleasant experience with Barbara from the 
application support team.. I think both of them are based in
California.. 
 
If Alfred and Barbara are reading this, keep it up, you guys rock!
 
Cheers
 
Joe D'Souza
Remedy Developer / Consultant,
BearingPoint,
Virginia.


- Original Message 
From: "Meyer, Jennifer" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:37:01 AM 
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't

Gee, Barry, I've noticed that, too.

At my last position, we kept a running total on our whiteboard.  Every
time we called support, we logged who actually solved the problem, our
admin team or theirs.  Their team remained with a 0 total. 

Come to think of it, I don't actually call BMC support: I'm just plain
turned off.  If our morale is low, how must the former Remedy
personnel's be?

J Meyer




-Original Message- 
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Lindstrom 
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:25 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT-RE: BMC SupportWeb is GARBAGE 

Gee...If this is Off Topic, what is on?

The web site may suck, but it's the changes to the underlying support
organization that concern me.

I used to(pre BMC Userworld 06) be able to pick up the phone and call 
Remedy tech support with a 50/50 chance of getting an answer to my
question.  AND, if I the person on the other end of the phone didn't
have the answer, they took it as a personal challenge to find somebody
who knew and get that info back to me. 

The first time I called BMC Tech Support(post BMC Userworld 06), I got a
BMC support person that didn't seem to understand the issue and didn't
seem to care about finding an answer.

I tried a second time about a month later with the same result. 

Since it appears the players behind "Remedy" tech support are now so BMC
centric that they can't support us, the value of this forum has just
increased exponentially.  Perhaps, it's time for an ARSList IPO. 

Barry Lindstrom
Certifiable ARJ
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in

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This is a transmission from Kohl's Department Stores, Inc.
and may contain information which is confidential and proprietary.
If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, copying or distribution or
use of the contents of this message is expressly prohibite

Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Luebbe, Tom]

>From what I heard last week, Grace is not longer employed by BMC. 

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Worthington
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:14 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: [ARSLIST] BMC Support Doesn't

I second Grace, Virginia and Barbara V.  And you can't forget Doug
Reif... 
(and the other Doug) ;-)


--
Tony Worthington
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
262-703-5911



"Pickering, Christopher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)" 

12/11/2006 10:53 AM
Please respond to
arslist@ARSLIST.ORG


To
arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
cc

Subject
Re: BMC Support Doesn't






** 
AMEN to that.  Virginia in Servers and Grace in Licenses to add a couple

more.
 
C

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 11:50 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't

** 
Add to that list Chris Pettibon, Jesse Richardson, Rich Denman, Jane 
Stuckey, Derek Bennett, and Bamba - all very knowledgeable and helpful 
folks.  That's not a complete list, and I apologize to those whose names

my brain is too feeble to still remember, but the point is that the 
problem isn't that there aren't good people IN support.  The problem is 
that there don't seem to be good policies coming from BMC to allow
Remedy 
support to be as good as it could be. 
 
Viva la ARSList!
 
Rick
 
On 12/11/06, Joe DeSouza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
** 
I sort of agree here but there are just these certain individuals at 
Remedy support I don't mind dealing with as my experience with them has 
been more than satisfactory. To name a couple, I think Alfred from the 
Server Support team is one of their most brilliant server resources, and

recently I had a very pleasant experience with Barbara from the 
application support team.. I think both of them are based in
California.. 
 
If Alfred and Barbara are reading this, keep it up, you guys rock!
 
Cheers
 
Joe D'Souza
Remedy Developer / Consultant,
BearingPoint,
Virginia.


- Original Message 
From: "Meyer, Jennifer" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:37:01 AM 
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't

Gee, Barry, I've noticed that, too.

At my last position, we kept a running total on our whiteboard.  Every
time we called support, we logged who actually solved the problem, our
admin team or theirs.  Their team remained with a 0 total. 

Come to think of it, I don't actually call BMC support: I'm just plain
turned off.  If our morale is low, how must the former Remedy
personnel's be?

J Meyer




-Original Message- 
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Lindstrom 
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:25 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT-RE: BMC SupportWeb is GARBAGE 

Gee...If this is Off Topic, what is on?

The web site may suck, but it's the changes to the underlying support
organization that concern me.

I used to(pre BMC Userworld 06) be able to pick up the phone and call 
Remedy tech support with a 50/50 chance of getting an answer to my
question.  AND, if I the person on the other end of the phone didn't
have the answer, they took it as a personal challenge to find somebody
who knew and get that info back to me. 

The first time I called BMC Tech Support(post BMC Userworld 06), I got a
BMC support person that didn't seem to understand the issue and didn't
seem to care about finding an answer.

I tried a second time about a month later with the same result. 

Since it appears the players behind "Remedy" tech support are now so BMC
centric that they can't support us, the value of this forum has just
increased exponentially.  Perhaps, it's time for an ARSList IPO. 

Barry Lindstrom
Certifiable ARJ
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in

it___ 
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in

it___ 


CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 
This is a transmission from Kohl's Department Stores, Inc.
and may contain information which is confidential and proprietary.
If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, copying or distribution or
use of the contents of this message is expressly prohibited.
If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy it and
notify us immediately at 262-703-7000.

CAUTION:
Internet and e-mail communications are Kohl's property and Kohl's
reserves the right to retrieve and read any message created, sent and
received.  Kohl's reserves the right to monitor messages to or from
authorized Kohl's Associates at any time
without 

Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Tony Worthington]

I second Grace, Virginia and Barbara V.  And you can't forget Doug Reif... 
(and the other Doug) ;-)


-- 
Tony Worthington
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
262-703-5911



"Pickering, Christopher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent by: "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)" 

12/11/2006 10:53 AM
Please respond to
arslist@ARSLIST.ORG


To
arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
cc

Subject
Re: BMC Support Doesn't






** 
AMEN to that.  Virginia in Servers and Grace in Licenses to add a couple 
more.
 
C

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 11:50 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't

** 
Add to that list Chris Pettibon, Jesse Richardson, Rich Denman, Jane 
Stuckey, Derek Bennett, and Bamba - all very knowledgeable and helpful 
folks.  That's not a complete list, and I apologize to those whose names 
my brain is too feeble to still remember, but the point is that the 
problem isn't that there aren't good people IN support.  The problem is 
that there don't seem to be good policies coming from BMC to allow Remedy 
support to be as good as it could be. 
 
Viva la ARSList!
 
Rick
 
On 12/11/06, Joe DeSouza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
** 
I sort of agree here but there are just these certain individuals at 
Remedy support I don't mind dealing with as my experience with them has 
been more than satisfactory. To name a couple, I think Alfred from the 
Server Support team is one of their most brilliant server resources, and 
recently I had a very pleasant experience with Barbara from the 
application support team.. I think both of them are based in California.. 
 
If Alfred and Barbara are reading this, keep it up, you guys rock!
 
Cheers
 
Joe D'Souza
Remedy Developer / Consultant,
BearingPoint,
Virginia.


- Original Message 
From: "Meyer, Jennifer" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:37:01 AM 
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't

Gee, Barry, I've noticed that, too.

At my last position, we kept a running total on our whiteboard.  Every
time we called support, we logged who actually solved the problem, our
admin team or theirs.  Their team remained with a 0 total. 

Come to think of it, I don't actually call BMC support: I'm just plain
turned off.  If our morale is low, how must the former Remedy
personnel's be?

J Meyer




-Original Message- 
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Lindstrom 
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:25 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT-RE: BMC SupportWeb is GARBAGE 

Gee...If this is Off Topic, what is on?

The web site may suck, but it's the changes to the underlying support
organization that concern me.

I used to(pre BMC Userworld 06) be able to pick up the phone and call 
Remedy tech support with a 50/50 chance of getting an answer to my
question.  AND, if I the person on the other end of the phone didn't
have the answer, they took it as a personal challenge to find somebody
who knew and get that info back to me. 

The first time I called BMC Tech Support(post BMC Userworld 06), I got a
BMC support person that didn't seem to understand the issue and didn't
seem to care about finding an answer.

I tried a second time about a month later with the same result. 

Since it appears the players behind "Remedy" tech support are now so BMC
centric that they can't support us, the value of this forum has just
increased exponentially.  Perhaps, it's time for an ARSList IPO. 

Barry Lindstrom
Certifiable ARJ
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in 
it___ 
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in 
it___ 


CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 
This is a transmission from Kohl's Department Stores, Inc.
and may contain information which is confidential and proprietary.
If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, copying or distribution or use of 
the contents of this message is expressly prohibited.
If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy it and notify 
us immediately at 262-703-7000.

CAUTION:
Internet and e-mail communications are Kohl's property and Kohl's reserves the 
right to retrieve and read any message created, sent and received.  Kohl's 
reserves the right to monitor messages to or from authorized Kohl's Associates 
at any time
without any further consent.

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Answers Are"

Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Axton]

I have to say that my recent experiences with the resolution team (3rd level
I believe) at BMC have been great.  They are difficult to get an audience
with, but when you have their attention, they don't waste any time getting
to the source of the problem and correcting it.  This group has access to
the remedy sources and the knowledge to troubleshoot and resolve the major
issues.

I tip my hat to that group.  You know who you are.

Whatever you do BMC, don't let anyone from that group leave your
organization; and try to hire more like them.

Axton Grams


On 12/12/06, Dave Fincher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


** Just to get my 10 cents in on this one.

I'm not a RAC or RPC, however, my knowledge of the ARS allows me to
operate and develop an extensive custom ARS enviroment with very little
technical support. I've been working with ARS for about 7 years in an
isolated network environment as the Senior Developer.  Imagine the response
from the Remedy Tech. when I tell them that a WebEx is not possible and "No,
I can't send you my workflow".  The general response is, it's impossible for
us to help you or something along those lines.  There times when I get one
of the support staff listed previously who have an almost intutive knowledge
of what the problem is and where to look, but most importantly realize that
I have done an exensive level of troubleshooting prior to calling.  Mostly,
I solve my own problems unless they are bugs, not well documented, or
something very bizarre is happening.

I view the current BMC support site as marginally more useless than the
previous Remedy SupportWeb.  In the past I have been sent knowledge base
article numbers that I was not able to access through the supportweb and the
techs were completely suprised that they were looking at a more extended
version of the KB than I had access to.  There are very few times that
I actually found a resolution to an issue by searching the old KB and doubt
that the new version has any better information in it.  At some point a
customer needs to be identified as an "Advanced User/Developer" (RCP/RAC, or
otherwise) and afforded more access into the KB and support site.  I'm
not saying that anyone should have direct access to L2 support, but the
pathway there should be accelerated if the L1 support issue map doesn't pan
out.  I don't feel that an experianced developer should have to sit
and retry everything that L1 support walks them through (we've probably
already done that prior to calling).  Let L1 step through a list of Yes/No
questions, Bypass the Yes answers qualify/quantify the No answers and push
to L2 if no resolution is found.

BMC needs to wake up and realize that if they start losing the
more experianced and knowledgeable support staff that no amount of money
spent elswhere will be able to replace them.   They should also take a
lesson from Dell who very quickly pulled all of thier corporate support back
to the U.S. after thier major customers started complaining.  Running a
support shop by outsourcing or with limited resources may be cheaper but
what is the customer satisfaction cost?

Dave Fincher

--
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small 
Business.__20060125___This
 posting was submitted with HTML in
it___




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Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Dave Fincher]

Just to get my 10 cents in on this one.
   
  I'm not a RAC or RPC, however, my knowledge of the ARS allows me to operate 
and develop an extensive custom ARS enviroment with very little technical 
support. I've been working with ARS for about 7 years in an isolated network 
environment as the Senior Developer.  Imagine the response from the Remedy 
Tech. when I tell them that a WebEx is not possible and "No, I can't send you 
my workflow".  The general response is, it's impossible for us to help you or 
something along those lines.  There times when I get one of the support staff 
listed previously who have an almost intutive knowledge of what the problem is 
and where to look, but most importantly realize that I have done an exensive 
level of troubleshooting prior to calling.  Mostly, I solve my own problems 
unless they are bugs, not well documented, or something very bizarre is 
happening.
   
  I view the current BMC support site as marginally more useless than the 
previous Remedy SupportWeb.  In the past I have been sent knowledge base 
article numbers that I was not able to access through the supportweb and the 
techs were completely suprised that they were looking at a more extended 
version of the KB than I had access to.  There are very few times that I 
actually found a resolution to an issue by searching the old KB and doubt that 
the new version has any better information in it.  At some point a customer 
needs to be identified as an "Advanced User/Developer" (RCP/RAC, or otherwise) 
and afforded more access into the KB and support site.  I'm not saying that 
anyone should have direct access to L2 support, but the pathway there should be 
accelerated if the L1 support issue map doesn't pan out.  I don't feel that an 
experianced developer should have to sit and retry everything that L1 support 
walks them through (we've probably already done that prior to calling).
  Let L1 step through a list of Yes/No questions, Bypass the Yes answers 
qualify/quantify the No answers and push to L2 if no resolution is found.
   
  BMC needs to wake up and realize that if they start losing the more 
experianced and knowledgeable support staff that no amount of money spent 
elswhere will be able to replace them.   They should also take a lesson from 
Dell who very quickly pulled all of thier corporate support back to the U.S. 
after thier major customers started complaining.  Running a support shop by 
outsourcing or with limited resources may be cheaper but what is the customer 
satisfaction cost?
  
Dave Fincher

 
-
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

___
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Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Meyer, Jennifer]

Rick, some days, you're practically poetic.

Maybe we should march on Houston in protest.

J Meyer

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 6:50 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't

**
Shawn, you mentioned something that flicked a switch in my mind when you
were talking about the KBs as part of an ITIL process.  My ITIL
foundations class featured the BMC Airport Simulator, led by Mr. Atwell
Williams (both of which I heartily recommend).  The entire point of the
simulation was to show the value of pushing resolution data as close to
the source of the problem as was practical, with the goal to minimize
outage times.  Given that, a stronger emphasis on self-service is a
natural thing that is not at odds with ITIL, but is being hamstrung by
the limitations on the self-service data we're allowed to see.
 
BMC, if you're going to make us do more work ourselves, give us the
proper tools with which to do it.  Open up the KB, and make it more
usable, starting with your base search criteria.  Why on earth can I not
select "Remedy Help Desk", or "CMDB" on the full product list?  If I
select Service Desk, I can only select v7.0, which must be what - 2% of
the installed ITSM base?  How am I supposed to know how to find the KBs
for the other versions?  For CMDB, I can only select products associated
with it - not the CMDB itself.  This is indicative of the BMC folks
trying to do Remedy stuff - they just aren't up to the task.
 
To do this the half-assed way it's currently being done serves neither
the customers nor the support staff well.  To be honest, to really make
it work right, BMC would have to get out of the way of the Remedy people
who were pretty much doing it right before you came along.
 
Rick


From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pierson, Shawn
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 4:57 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't


**
This is one of the flaws of most early ITIL adoptions I think.  While in
ITIL everything is initiated and communicated through the Service Desk
as front line support, that doesn't mean that it has to be an
organization structure.  There's no valid reason for them to limit the
KBs as tightly as another person in this thread mentioned, as that would
help some of these issues.  Additionally, I think with better
categorization of incidents, they could probably route calls such as the
bug you mentioned faster.
 
I do agree with BMC's idea of not necessarily having all calls go
automatically to the most experienced techs.  You don't want to waste
the time of a level 2 person or an engineer with questions about how to
turn on log files or create users, that would be very inefficient and
probably bore them to tears and make them want to quit.  The idea of
having some more detailed information on support users, a detailed
profile to let them know that you are experienced enough to
automatically route the ticket/call to level 2 or at least some of the
more advanced level 1 people is good though.  There was an ITIL-related
session of the pre-tutorials at the UserWorld this year where the
gentleman running the session discussed setting up the equivalent of the
"ten items or less" express lanes for easy problems and the normal lanes
for bigger ones.  Detailed user profiles based on length of time as a
user on Supportweb and previous calls could probably help out in routing
tickets and calls in addition to categorization.
 
There's a lot of room for opportunity, and I hope BMC changes things for
the better.

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe DeSouza
    Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:38 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't


** 
This is more or less what I meant. As someone who has spent so
much time on these systems, chances that you raise an issue that could
have been resolved by reading the manuals are much less. Chances that
you raise an issue without conducting preliminary checks to see if you
have done anything wrong before raising that issue are even lesser. I
personally think that anyone who has worked with the ARS for more than 4
or 5 years better know basic troubleshooting to eliminate obvious causes
for problems he or she is facing. Such a person is a better candidate
for having an almost on demand access for tier 2 support.
 
Some of the tickets I have created in the past, were based on
genuine issues or problems that I have faced that are not documented.
They were either bugs in the install script or where my install crashed
out due to network err

Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Dave Saville]

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:55:14 -0500, David Charters wrote:

>I do know that People Soft and SAP both handle there support the same as
>Remedy. Even if you a 10 year veteran with all the certs you still have to
>start and level 1 and work your way through the steps.

Many many years ago when I was a systems programmer on MVS we discovered that
our customer record at the IBM support centre had a notation on it that
translated to "these guys *really* know what they are talking about" :-)

-- 
Regards

Dave Saville

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Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Rick Cook]

Shawn, you mentioned something that flicked a switch in my mind when you
were talking about the KBs as part of an ITIL process.  My ITIL foundations
class featured the BMC Airport Simulator, led by Mr. Atwell Williams (both
of which I heartily recommend).  The entire point of the simulation was to
show the value of pushing resolution data as close to the source of the
problem as was practical, with the goal to minimize outage times.  Given
that, a stronger emphasis on self-service is a natural thing that is not at
odds with ITIL, but is being hamstrung by the limitations on the
self-service data we're allowed to see.
 
BMC, if you're going to make us do more work ourselves, give us the proper
tools with which to do it.  Open up the KB, and make it more usable,
starting with your base search criteria.  Why on earth can I not select
"Remedy Help Desk", or "CMDB" on the full product list?  If I select Service
Desk, I can only select v7.0, which must be what - 2% of the installed ITSM
base?  How am I supposed to know how to find the KBs for the other versions?
For CMDB, I can only select products associated with it - not the CMDB
itself.  This is indicative of the BMC folks trying to do Remedy stuff -
they just aren't up to the task.
 
To do this the half-assed way it's currently being done serves neither the
customers nor the support staff well.  To be honest, to really make it work
right, BMC would have to get out of the way of the Remedy people who were
pretty much doing it right before you came along.
 
Rick 
  _  

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pierson, Shawn
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 4:57 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't


** 
This is one of the flaws of most early ITIL adoptions I think.  While in
ITIL everything is initiated and communicated through the Service Desk as
front line support, that doesn't mean that it has to be an organization
structure.  There's no valid reason for them to limit the KBs as tightly as
another person in this thread mentioned, as that would help some of these
issues.  Additionally, I think with better categorization of incidents, they
could probably route calls such as the bug you mentioned faster.
 
I do agree with BMC's idea of not necessarily having all calls go
automatically to the most experienced techs.  You don't want to waste the
time of a level 2 person or an engineer with questions about how to turn on
log files or create users, that would be very inefficient and probably bore
them to tears and make them want to quit.  The idea of having some more
detailed information on support users, a detailed profile to let them know
that you are experienced enough to automatically route the ticket/call to
level 2 or at least some of the more advanced level 1 people is good though.
There was an ITIL-related session of the pre-tutorials at the UserWorld this
year where the gentleman running the session discussed setting up the
equivalent of the "ten items or less" express lanes for easy problems and
the normal lanes for bigger ones.  Detailed user profiles based on length of
time as a user on Supportweb and previous calls could probably help out in
routing tickets and calls in addition to categorization.
 
There's a lot of room for opportunity, and I hope BMC changes things for the
better.

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe DeSouza
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:38 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't


** 
This is more or less what I meant. As someone who has spent so much time on
these systems, chances that you raise an issue that could have been resolved
by reading the manuals are much less. Chances that you raise an issue
without conducting preliminary checks to see if you have done anything wrong
before raising that issue are even lesser. I personally think that anyone
who has worked with the ARS for more than 4 or 5 years better know basic
troubleshooting to eliminate obvious causes for problems he or she is
facing. Such a person is a better candidate for having an almost on demand
access for tier 2 support.
 
Some of the tickets I have created in the past, were based on genuine issues
or problems that I have faced that are not documented. They were either bugs
in the install script or where my install crashed out due to network errors
and I had to redo application install so I needed information as to what I
needed to delete from the Share Property form etc. If these installations
are on UNIX system using readable scripts I even go through the exercise of
viewing the script to see whats happening before I raise a ticket. A recent
example is a bug I noticed on the installation of the approval server on Sun
Solaris version 5.10, where there is a bug with the min version varaib

Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[strauss]

...which may lead us out here in the customer arena to simply start
pulling the trigger quicker: encounter a problem - troubleshoot it very
superficially - then go ahead and submit it as a ticket knowing that we
will have to eat the front-line support time anyway, so it might as well
be on BMC's time too. With the level of complexity (and profusion of
bugs in services, applications, and installers) in the version 7
products, this may have to become a survival tactic. I've stumbled
across a wide variety of installer problems, usually as a result of
incorrect assumptions about the server environment, that have taken
weeks to resolve and put us way behind schedule on implementation. I now
wonder if I would have been much better off to just toss them all over
the wall to support the first time I spotted them, and focused instead
on application configuration planning instead of trying to work through
them, even though some of them might still be unresolved today. Unless
we are involved in a beta, we shouldn't have to _be_ the QA process, but
that is what it feels like.

I do have to say that response time does vary significantly for the
different support groups at BMC; some tickets seem to go to backline
support almost immediately, but maybe it is because they have already
seen a problem and are looking for more sites to report it so that they
can gather data to solve it. When I get that kind of a response, I
usually reciprocate in terms of level of effort.

Christopher Strauss, Ph.D.
Remedy Database Administrator
University of North Texas Computing Center
http://remedy.unt.edu/helpdesk/ 


From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe DeSouza
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:38 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't

SNIP

Frontline support staff usually aren't able to give me the sort of
support I need to resolve such issues. So they end up using almost as
much time I might have possibly spent troubleshooting stuff myself, if
not more in going through the same checks on logs etc before they
ultimately reassign it to backend support when they reach at the same
point I was at when I had decided to call support. 
 
SNIP

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Re: BMC Support Doesn't use RSP's enough

[Carey Matthew Black]

Axton,

But it is all about the paper. (Money that is.)

If THEY say "I know my stuff"(AKA: they certify me) then why will
"they" not use such a valuable resource to the best of their
advantage? ( It just does not make sense to me. )

And just to be clear, I was not trying to say that ONLY RSP/RAC's
should be granted such access. I would love it if all customers could
be granted tools like that. However, until "they" decide that
certified people are "good enough" then I really do not think that
"non-certified" people will be good enough either. ( I hope that makes
sense. I am just trying to look at it from what I guess their
perspective must be.)

( BTW: I was just starting with the extended KB/support interface. :)

I have even, repeatedly, attempted to get Remedy (and now BMC) to open
up the developers community to a hosted ARS server where select users
could do things like "Real world load test", develop test harnesses,
and try out the new stuff for BMC in groups like Alpha/Beta or even
"RSP/RAC" groups. [ But they have yet to show any real interest in
letting us help them in such ways.]  Wave an open sourced license flag
of their choosing,(for anything developed in such an environment) and
see if they can start a culture[Yes I mean like a fungus] growing to
get their customers to help them help their other customers.



And as a converse statement to these ideas

If they do not think that their certifications are "good enough" for
such things, then what should we think of their certifications?  :)
Yes, certifications are a double edged sword.

--
Carey Matthew Black
Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)

Love, then teach
Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two.


On 12/11/06, Axton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

**
"As an RSP I should be able to see more KB, enter KB's, update KB's and
have a great deal more access to info on my incidents/bugs than the
average customer. I have INVESTED a great deal of time to become
 "certified" in this stuff and that should mean that I am a good
partner for BMC to work with. ( Not that I think I should be able to
skip level one, but I should be granted more of what level one has
than "just another customer" has too. )"

Does this mean that those of us who have not gone down this path are somehow
unworthy of additional content; tickets, kb, or otherwise?  I too have
invested a great deal of time in learning this stuff.  Seems such a thing
should be driven on individual merit (tickets vs. defects, etc.) instead of
a piece of paper.

Axton Grams


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Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Pierson, Shawn]

This is one of the flaws of most early ITIL adoptions I think.  While in
ITIL everything is initiated and communicated through the Service Desk
as front line support, that doesn't mean that it has to be an
organization structure.  There's no valid reason for them to limit the
KBs as tightly as another person in this thread mentioned, as that would
help some of these issues.  Additionally, I think with better
categorization of incidents, they could probably route calls such as the
bug you mentioned faster.

I do agree with BMC's idea of not necessarily having all calls go
automatically to the most experienced techs.  You don't want to waste
the time of a level 2 person or an engineer with questions about how to
turn on log files or create users, that would be very inefficient and
probably bore them to tears and make them want to quit.  The idea of
having some more detailed information on support users, a detailed
profile to let them know that you are experienced enough to
automatically route the ticket/call to level 2 or at least some of the
more advanced level 1 people is good though.  There was an ITIL-related
session of the pre-tutorials at the UserWorld this year where the
gentleman running the session discussed setting up the equivalent of the
"ten items or less" express lanes for easy problems and the normal lanes
for bigger ones.  Detailed user profiles based on length of time as a
user on Supportweb and previous calls could probably help out in routing
tickets and calls in addition to categorization.

There's a lot of room for opportunity, and I hope BMC changes things for
the better.

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe DeSouza
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:38 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
    Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't


**
This is more or less what I meant. As someone who has spent so
much time on these systems, chances that you raise an issue that could
have been resolved by reading the manuals are much less. Chances that
you raise an issue without conducting preliminary checks to see if you
have done anything wrong before raising that issue are even lesser. I
personally think that anyone who has worked with the ARS for more than 4
or 5 years better know basic troubleshooting to eliminate obvious causes
for problems he or she is facing. Such a person is a better candidate
for having an almost on demand access for tier 2 support.

Some of the tickets I have created in the past, were based on
genuine issues or problems that I have faced that are not documented.
They were either bugs in the install script or where my install crashed
out due to network errors and I had to redo application install so I
needed information as to what I needed to delete from the Share Property
form etc. If these installations are on UNIX system using readable
scripts I even go through the exercise of viewing the script to see
whats happening before I raise a ticket. A recent example is a bug I
noticed on the installation of the approval server on Sun Solaris
version 5.10, where there is a bug with the min version varaible that is
read and interpreted by the install script. I called support after
reading the script and spotting the bug just to verify the modification
I intended to do on that script. How much will frontline support be able
to help me with that if this bug has not been reported and documented
before? They had to pass it to engineering to verify it for me..

Frontline support staff usually aren't able to give me the sort
of support I need to resolve such issues. So they end up using almost as
much time I might have possibly spent troubleshooting stuff myself, if
not more in going through the same checks on logs etc before they
ultimately reassign it to backend support when they reach at the same
point I was at when I had decided to call support.

Thats where I fail to see why I need to spend that much time
with them when I personally know that in the end its very likely to go
to backend support sooner or later..

Joe


- Original Message 
From: Axton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:58:45 PM
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't

**
"As an RSP I should be able to see more KB, enter KB's, update
KB's and
have a great deal more access to info on my incidents/bugs than
the
average customer. I have INVESTED a great deal of time to become
"certified" in this stuff and that should mean that I am a good
partner for BMC to work with. ( Not that I think I should be
able to
skip level one, but I should be granted more of what level one
has
than "just another customer" has too. )"

Doe

Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Joe DeSouza]

This is more or less what I meant. As someone who has spent so much time on 
these systems, chances that you raise an issue that could have been resolved by 
reading the manuals are much less. Chances that you raise an issue without 
conducting preliminary checks to see if you have done anything wrong before 
raising that issue are even lesser. I personally think that anyone who has 
worked with the ARS for more than 4 or 5 years better know basic 
troubleshooting to eliminate obvious causes for problems he or she is facing. 
Such a person is a better candidate for having an almost on demand access for 
tier 2 support.

Some of the tickets I have created in the past, were based on genuine issues or 
problems that I have faced that are not documented. They were either bugs in 
the install script or where my install crashed out due to network errors and I 
had to redo application install so I needed information as to what I needed to 
delete from the Share Property form etc. If these installations are on UNIX 
system using readable scripts I even go through the exercise of viewing the 
script to see whats happening before I raise a ticket. A recent example is a 
bug I noticed on the installation of the approval server on Sun Solaris version 
5.10, where there is a bug with the min version varaible that is read and 
interpreted by the install script. I called support after reading the script 
and spotting the bug just to verify the modification I intended to do on that 
script. How much will frontline support be able to help me with that if this 
bug has not been reported and documented before? They had
 to pass it to engineering to verify it for me..

Frontline support staff usually aren't able to give me the sort of support I 
need to resolve such issues. So they end up using almost as much time I might 
have possibly spent troubleshooting stuff myself, if not more in going through 
the same checks on logs etc before they ultimately reassign it to backend 
support when they reach at the same point I was at when I had decided to call 
support.

Thats where I fail to see why I need to spend that much time with them when I 
personally know that in the end its very likely to go to backend support sooner 
or later..
 
Joe



- Original Message 
From: Axton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:58:45 PM
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't

** 
"As an RSP I should be able to see more KB, enter KB's, update KB's and
have a great deal more access to info on my incidents/bugs than the
average customer. I have INVESTED a great deal of time to become
"certified" in this stuff and that should mean that I am a good
partner for BMC to work with. ( Not that I think I should be able to
skip level one, but I should be granted more of what level one has 
than "just another customer" has too. )"
 
Does this mean that those of us who have not gone down this path are somehow 
unworthy of additional content; tickets, kb, or otherwise?  I too have invested 
a great deal of time in learning this stuff.  Seems such a thing should be 
driven on individual merit (tickets vs. defects, etc.) instead of a piece of 
paper. 
 
Axton Grams

 
On 12/11/06, Carey Matthew Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
Joe,

I here you. I feel that frustration.

However the most experienced developers do still make "newbie" 
mistakes from time to time. And wasting a "experts" time trying to
figure out that you really did "leave the caps lock key on" is not
good for anyone. (Even if it makes the customer on the other end of 
the phone feel like they are getting better support.)


What I would like is a better "troubleshooting map" of what Level 1
will do when I contact them. That would allow me to complete more (or
all) of the "level one steps" (and check them off the list) before I
open the issue with BMC. If BMC could provide a "sure fire debugging
process" that would let me "skip" level one contacts because they see 
that "all of those things are already done" would be GREAT in my book.
I also fully expect my new incident to be routed through level one,
where they verify that I did cross all my t's and dotted all of my 
"i's", but if it is all in order then they can focus on working with
the level TWO and NOT working with ME to get details about what I see
in my env.

My bottom line would be:
If they can not reproduce it, then either I have a local issue, or I 
did not fully describe it. (And level one needs to work with me to
figure that out.)
If they can reproduce it, and are unable to explain it, then I need
to speak with level two.
If they can not explain it, then the docs are lacking and level two 
has some explaining to do.



And do NOT get me started on how RSP/RAC should be factored into this stuff.

As an RSP I should be able to see more KB,

Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Axton]

"As an RSP I should be able to see more KB, enter KB's, update KB's and
have a great deal more access to info on my incidents/bugs than the
average customer. I have INVESTED a great deal of time to become
"certified" in this stuff and that should mean that I am a good
partner for BMC to work with. ( Not that I think I should be able to
skip level one, but I should be granted more of what level one has
than "just another customer" has too. )"

Does this mean that those of us who have not gone down this path are somehow
unworthy of additional content; tickets, kb, or otherwise?  I too have
invested a great deal of time in learning this stuff.  Seems such a thing
should be driven on individual merit (tickets vs. defects, etc.) instead of
a piece of paper.

Axton Grams


On 12/11/06, Carey Matthew Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Joe,

I here you. I feel that frustration.

However the most experienced developers do still make "newbie"
mistakes from time to time. And wasting a "experts" time trying to
figure out that you really did "leave the caps lock key on" is not
good for anyone. (Even if it makes the customer on the other end of
the phone feel like they are getting better support.)


What I would like is a better "troubleshooting map" of what Level 1
will do when I contact them. That would allow me to complete more (or
all) of the "level one steps" (and check them off the list) before I
open the issue with BMC. If BMC could provide a "sure fire debugging
process" that would let me "skip" level one contacts because they see
that "all of those things are already done" would be GREAT in my book.
I also fully expect my new incident to be routed through level one,
where they verify that I did cross all my t's and dotted all of my
"i's", but if it is all in order then they can focus on working with
the level TWO and NOT working with ME to get details about what I see
in my env.

My bottom line would be:
If they can not reproduce it, then either I have a local issue, or I
did not fully describe it. (And level one needs to work with me to
figure that out.)
If they can reproduce it, and are unable to explain it, then I need
to speak with level two.
If they can not explain it, then the docs are lacking and level two
has some explaining to do.



And do NOT get me started on how RSP/RAC should be factored into this
stuff.

As an RSP I should be able to see more KB, enter KB's, update KB's and
have a great deal more access to info on my incidents/bugs than the
average customer. I have INVESTED a great deal of time to become
"certified" in this stuff and that should mean that I am a good
partner for BMC to work with. ( Not that I think I should be able to
skip level one, but I should be granted more of what level one has
than "just another customer" has too. )

However, there are days that I think that I am just certifiable for
being certified in the first place. :)

--
Carey Matthew Black
Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)

Love, then teach
Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two.



On 12/11/06, Joe DeSouza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> **
>
>


> What I think would work is if they were to set up level based profiles
of
> their customers.. What I mean is usually when you have an experienced
Remedy
> developer or administrator calling Remedy support on some issue, they
> usually call when they have covered most bases, and are still at a loss
at
> solving their problem. What they do not want to deal with after
contacting
> support is wasting about 6 hours shooting emails back and forth with
basic
> logs that were already looked at several times before raising some of
these
> issues..
>
> An experienced developer or consultant would rather have liked to talk
to a
> back end support personnel rather than dealing with the front end. With
all
> due respect to newer developers or administrators of the Remedy systems,
I
> think it would be fair to have the backend support more accessible to
> seasoned developers and administrators, while the front end support
could be
> more dedicated to newer or lesser experienced developers and
administrators.
>



>
> Joe D'Souza
> Remedy Developer / Consultant,
> BearingPoint,
> Virginia.


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Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[David Charters]

I do know that People Soft and SAP both handle there support the same as
Remedy. Even if you a 10 year veteran with all the certs you still have to
start and level 1 and work your way through the steps.

-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 3:40 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't

Joe,

I here you. I feel that frustration.

However the most experienced developers do still make "newbie"
mistakes from time to time. And wasting a "experts" time trying to
figure out that you really did "leave the caps lock key on" is not
good for anyone. (Even if it makes the customer on the other end of
the phone feel like they are getting better support.)


What I would like is a better "troubleshooting map" of what Level 1
will do when I contact them. That would allow me to complete more (or
all) of the "level one steps" (and check them off the list) before I
open the issue with BMC. If BMC could provide a "sure fire debugging
process" that would let me "skip" level one contacts because they see
that "all of those things are already done" would be GREAT in my book.
I also fully expect my new incident to be routed through level one,
where they verify that I did cross all my t's and dotted all of my
"i's", but if it is all in order then they can focus on working with
the level TWO and NOT working with ME to get details about what I see
in my env.

My bottom line would be:
  If they can not reproduce it, then either I have a local issue, or I
did not fully describe it. (And level one needs to work with me to
figure that out.)
  If they can reproduce it, and are unable to explain it, then I need
to speak with level two.
  If they can not explain it, then the docs are lacking and level two
has some explaining to do.



And do NOT get me started on how RSP/RAC should be factored into this stuff.

As an RSP I should be able to see more KB, enter KB's, update KB's and
have a great deal more access to info on my incidents/bugs than the
average customer. I have INVESTED a great deal of time to become
"certified" in this stuff and that should mean that I am a good
partner for BMC to work with. ( Not that I think I should be able to
skip level one, but I should be granted more of what level one has
than "just another customer" has too. )

However, there are days that I think that I am just certifiable for
being certified in the first place. :)

-- 
Carey Matthew Black
Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)

Love, then teach
Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two.



On 12/11/06, Joe DeSouza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> **
>
>


> What I think would work is if they were to set up level based profiles of
> their customers.. What I mean is usually when you have an experienced
Remedy
> developer or administrator calling Remedy support on some issue, they
> usually call when they have covered most bases, and are still at a loss at
> solving their problem. What they do not want to deal with after contacting
> support is wasting about 6 hours shooting emails back and forth with basic
> logs that were already looked at several times before raising some of
these
> issues..
>
> An experienced developer or consultant would rather have liked to talk to
a
> back end support personnel rather than dealing with the front end. With
all
> due respect to newer developers or administrators of the Remedy systems, I
> think it would be fair to have the backend support more accessible to
> seasoned developers and administrators, while the front end support could
be
> more dedicated to newer or lesser experienced developers and
administrators.
>



>
> Joe D'Souza
> Remedy Developer / Consultant,
> BearingPoint,
> Virginia.


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Answers Are"

Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Carey Matthew Black]

Joe,

I here you. I feel that frustration.

However the most experienced developers do still make "newbie"
mistakes from time to time. And wasting a "experts" time trying to
figure out that you really did "leave the caps lock key on" is not
good for anyone. (Even if it makes the customer on the other end of
the phone feel like they are getting better support.)


What I would like is a better "troubleshooting map" of what Level 1
will do when I contact them. That would allow me to complete more (or
all) of the "level one steps" (and check them off the list) before I
open the issue with BMC. If BMC could provide a "sure fire debugging
process" that would let me "skip" level one contacts because they see
that "all of those things are already done" would be GREAT in my book.
I also fully expect my new incident to be routed through level one,
where they verify that I did cross all my t's and dotted all of my
"i's", but if it is all in order then they can focus on working with
the level TWO and NOT working with ME to get details about what I see
in my env.

My bottom line would be:
 If they can not reproduce it, then either I have a local issue, or I
did not fully describe it. (And level one needs to work with me to
figure that out.)
 If they can reproduce it, and are unable to explain it, then I need
to speak with level two.
 If they can not explain it, then the docs are lacking and level two
has some explaining to do.



And do NOT get me started on how RSP/RAC should be factored into this stuff.

As an RSP I should be able to see more KB, enter KB's, update KB's and
have a great deal more access to info on my incidents/bugs than the
average customer. I have INVESTED a great deal of time to become
"certified" in this stuff and that should mean that I am a good
partner for BMC to work with. ( Not that I think I should be able to
skip level one, but I should be granted more of what level one has
than "just another customer" has too. )

However, there are days that I think that I am just certifiable for
being certified in the first place. :)

--
Carey Matthew Black
Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)

Love, then teach
Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two.



On 12/11/06, Joe DeSouza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

**






What I think would work is if they were to set up level based profiles of
their customers.. What I mean is usually when you have an experienced Remedy
developer or administrator calling Remedy support on some issue, they
usually call when they have covered most bases, and are still at a loss at
solving their problem. What they do not want to deal with after contacting
support is wasting about 6 hours shooting emails back and forth with basic
logs that were already looked at several times before raising some of these
issues..

An experienced developer or consultant would rather have liked to talk to a
back end support personnel rather than dealing with the front end. With all
due respect to newer developers or administrators of the Remedy systems, I
think it would be fair to have the backend support more accessible to
seasoned developers and administrators, while the front end support could be
more dedicated to newer or lesser experienced developers and administrators.







Joe D'Souza
Remedy Developer / Consultant,
BearingPoint,
Virginia.


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Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Joe DeSouza]

I do agree on the policy bit. What I do not particularly like about their 
policies is their first level support towards dealing with certain problems.

What I think would work is if they were to set up level based profiles of their 
customers.. What I mean is usually when you have an experienced Remedy 
developer or administrator calling Remedy support on some issue, they usually 
call when they have covered most bases, and are still at a loss at solving 
their problem. What they do not want to deal with after contacting support is 
wasting about 6 hours shooting emails back and forth with basic logs that were 
already looked at several times before raising some of these issues..

An experienced developer or consultant would rather have liked to talk to a 
back end support personnel rather than dealing with the front end. With all due 
respect to newer developers or administrators of the Remedy systems, I think it 
would be fair to have the backend support more accessible to seasoned 
developers and administrators, while the front end support could be more 
dedicated to newer or lesser experienced developers and administrators.

Would this work? I think so. Why wouldn't it. Its almost a given that newer 
developers or administrators have issues with whats a little more obvious than 
their experienced counterparts. I was a newbie at one time and I know that I 
had most of my problems resolved by frontline support.. Was it because back 
then they were any better and worse than the frontline support now? Personally 
I do not think so. They were as good or worse. What worked for me back then was 
just the fact that I probably contacted them with the most obvious things.

What doesn't work for me now when I contact frontline support is, I usually 
spend significant amount of time doing a routine standard debug and sometimes 
even beyond based on my past experiences dealing with something simirlar, and 
if I am still at the end of the road, when I raise a support ticket, I've 
usually to spend another few hours with frontline support throwing logs back 
and forth, and finding no resolution, it then goes to backend support.

Not the best kind of process I guess that suits my requirement. When I say mine 
I'm pretty sure I'm talking about a substantial number of developers and 
consultants out there...

Joe D'Souza
Remedy Developer / Consultant,
BearingPoint,
Virginia.



- Original Message 
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 12:01:46 PM
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't

** 
Hi Listers,
 
There are still many there who are truly great at what they do. Some for 
always having the right answer, and some who no matter what won't rest till 
they find the solution. So for Gary, Doug, Dave Carrie, Carmen, Russ, Dave (the 
other Dave), Jason, and all of you who over the years have been there for us 
customers   Thank you!
 
 I think whats been going on has been a shame. Changes in policies that 
permit less and less actual helping time and more time dedicated to that 
insufferable support web. I am amazed and astounded at all the problems and 
flaws it possesses. Even more surprising that BMC being in my opinion a 
proponent of ITIL practices and ITSM solutions that follow those practices, 
does not seem to use them in their own business. At least not that I can see 
from the point of view of a customer trying to use their support web. 
 
Best Regards,
 
Tom Altamore
 

- Original Message -
From: Joe DeSouza 
Date: Monday, December 11, 2006 11:30 am
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG

> I sort of agree here but there are just these certain 
> individuals at Remedy support I don't mind dealing with as my 
> experience with them has been more than satisfactory. To name a 
> couple, I think Alfred from the Server Support team is one of 
> their most brilliant server resources, and recently I had a very 
> pleasant experience with Barbara from the application support 
> team.. I think both of them are based in California..
> 
> If Alfred and Barbara are reading this, keep it up, you guys rock!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Joe D'Souza
> Remedy Developer / Consultant,
> BearingPoint,
> Virginia.
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message 
> From: "Meyer, Jennifer" 
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:37:01 AM
> Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't
> 
> 
> Gee, Barry, I've noticed that, too.
> 
> At my last position, we kept a running total on our whiteboard. Every
> time we called support, we logged who actually solved the 
> problem, our
> admin team or theirs. Their team remained with a 0 total.
> 
> Come to think of it, I don't actually call BMC support: I'm just plain
> turned off. If our morale is

Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[tgaltamore]

Hi Listers,

There are still many there who are truly great at what they do. Some for 
always having the right answer, and some who no matter what won't rest till 
they find the solution. So for Gary, Doug, Dave Carrie, Carmen, Russ, Dave (the 
other Dave), Jason, and all of you who over the years have been there for us 
customers   Thank you!

 I think whats been going on has been a shame. Changes in policies that 
permit less and less actual helping time and more time dedicated to that 
insufferable support web. I am amazed and astounded at all the problems and 
flaws it possesses. Even more surprising that BMC being in my opinion a 
proponent of ITIL practices and ITSM solutions that follow those practices, 
does not seem to use them in their own business. At least not that I can see 
from the point of view of a customer trying to use their support web. 

Best Regards,

Tom Altamore


- Original Message -
From: Joe DeSouza 
Date: Monday, December 11, 2006 11:30 am
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG

> I sort of agree here but there are just these certain 
> individuals at Remedy support I don't mind dealing with as my 
> experience with them has been more than satisfactory. To name a 
> couple, I think Alfred from the Server Support team is one of 
> their most brilliant server resources, and recently I had a very 
> pleasant experience with Barbara from the application support 
> team.. I think both of them are based in California..
> 
> If Alfred and Barbara are reading this, keep it up, you guys rock!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Joe D'Souza
> Remedy Developer / Consultant,
> BearingPoint,
> Virginia.
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message 
> From: "Meyer, Jennifer" 
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:37:01 AM
> Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't
> 
> 
> Gee, Barry, I've noticed that, too.
> 
> At my last position, we kept a running total on our whiteboard. Every
> time we called support, we logged who actually solved the 
> problem, our
> admin team or theirs. Their team remained with a 0 total.
> 
> Come to think of it, I don't actually call BMC support: I'm just plain
> turned off. If our morale is low, how must the former Remedy
> personnel's be?
> 
> J Meyer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Lindstrom
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:25 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: OT-RE: BMC SupportWeb is GARBAGE
> 
> Gee...If this is Off Topic, what is on?
> 
> The web site may suck, but it's the changes to the underlying support
> organization that concern me.
> 
> I used to(pre BMC Userworld 06) be able to pick up the phone and call
> Remedy tech support with a 50/50 chance of getting an answer to my
> question. AND, if I the person on the other end of the phone didn't
> have the answer, they took it as a personal challenge to find somebody
> who knew and get that info back to me.
> 
> The first time I called BMC Tech Support(post BMC Userworld 06), 
> I got a
> BMC support person that didn't seem to understand the issue and didn't
> seem to care about finding an answer.
> 
> I tried a second time about a month later with the same result.
> 
> Since it appears the players behind "Remedy" tech support are 
> now so BMC
> centric that they can't support us, the value of this forum has just
> increased exponentially. Perhaps, it's time for an ARSList IPO.
> 
> Barry Lindstrom
> Certifiable ARJ
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> ARSlist:"Where the Answers Are"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheap talk?
> Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
> http://voice.yahoo.com
> 
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> 

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Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Pickering, Christopher]

AMEN to that.  Virginia in Servers and Grace in Licenses to add a couple
more.
 
C



From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 11:50 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't


** 
Add to that list Chris Pettibon, Jesse Richardson, Rich Denman, Jane
Stuckey, Derek Bennett, and Bamba - all very knowledgeable and helpful
folks.  That's not a complete list, and I apologize to those whose names
my brain is too feeble to still remember, but the point is that the
problem isn't that there aren't good people IN support.  The problem is
that there don't seem to be good policies coming from BMC to allow
Remedy support to be as good as it could be. 
 
Viva la ARSList!
 
Rick
 
On 12/11/06, Joe DeSouza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

** 
I sort of agree here but there are just these certain
individuals at Remedy support I don't mind dealing with as my experience
with them has been more than satisfactory. To name a couple, I think
Alfred from the Server Support team is one of their most brilliant
server resources, and recently I had a very pleasant experience with
Barbara from the application support team.. I think both of them are
based in California.. 
 
If Alfred and Barbara are reading this, keep it up, you guys
rock!
 
Cheers
 
Joe D'Souza
Remedy Developer / Consultant,
BearingPoint,
Virginia.



- Original Message 
From: "Meyer, Jennifer" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
    Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:37:01 AM 
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't


Gee, Barry, I've noticed that, too.

At my last position, we kept a running total on our whiteboard.
Every
time we called support, we logged who actually solved the
problem, our
admin team or theirs.  Their team remained with a 0 total. 

Come to think of it, I don't actually call BMC support: I'm just
plain
turned off.  If our morale is low, how must the former Remedy
personnel's be?

J Meyer




-Original Message- 
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Lindstrom 
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:25 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT-RE: BMC SupportWeb is GARBAGE 

Gee...If this is Off Topic, what is on?

The web site may suck, but it's the changes to the underlying
support
organization that concern me.

I used to(pre BMC Userworld 06) be able to pick up the phone and
call 
Remedy tech support with a 50/50 chance of getting an answer to
my
question.  AND, if I the person on the other end of the phone
didn't
have the answer, they took it as a personal challenge to find
somebody
who knew and get that info back to me. 

The first time I called BMC Tech Support(post BMC Userworld 06),
I got a
BMC support person that didn't seem to understand the issue and
didn't
seem to care about finding an answer.

I tried a second time about a month later with the same result. 

Since it appears the players behind "Remedy" tech support are
now so BMC
centric that they can't support us, the value of this forum has
just
increased exponentially.  Perhaps, it's time for an ARSList IPO.


Barry Lindstrom
Certifiable ARJ

__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in
it___ 

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Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Rick Cook]

Add to that list Chris Pettibon, Jesse Richardson, Rich Denman, Jane
Stuckey, Derek Bennett, and Bamba - all very knowledgeable and helpful
folks.  That's not a complete list, and I apologize to those whose names my
brain is too feeble to still remember, but the point is that the problem
isn't that there aren't good people IN support.  The problem is that there
don't seem to be good policies coming from BMC to allow Remedy support to be
as good as it could be.

Viva la ARSList!

Rick

On 12/11/06, Joe DeSouza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


**
I sort of agree here but there are just these certain individuals at
Remedy support I don't mind dealing with as my experience with them has been
more than satisfactory. To name a couple, I think Alfred from the Server
Support team is one of their most brilliant server resources, and recently I
had a very pleasant experience with Barbara from the application support
team.. I think both of them are based in California..

If Alfred and Barbara are reading this, keep it up, you guys rock!

Cheers

Joe D'Souza
Remedy Developer / Consultant,
BearingPoint,
Virginia.


- Original Message 
From: "Meyer, Jennifer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:37:01 AM
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't

Gee, Barry, I've noticed that, too.

At my last position, we kept a running total on our whiteboard.  Every
time we called support, we logged who actually solved the problem, our
admin team or theirs.  Their team remained with a 0 total.

Come to think of it, I don't actually call BMC support: I'm just plain
turned off.  If our morale is low, how must the former Remedy
personnel's be?

J Meyer




-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Lindstrom
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:25 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT-RE: BMC SupportWeb is GARBAGE

Gee...If this is Off Topic, what is on?

The web site may suck, but it's the changes to the underlying support
organization that concern me.

I used to(pre BMC Userworld 06) be able to pick up the phone and call
Remedy tech support with a 50/50 chance of getting an answer to my
question.  AND, if I the person on the other end of the phone didn't
have the answer, they took it as a personal challenge to find somebody
who knew and get that info back to me.

The first time I called BMC Tech Support(post BMC Userworld 06), I got a
BMC support person that didn't seem to understand the issue and didn't
seem to care about finding an answer.

I tried a second time about a month later with the same result.

Since it appears the players behind "Remedy" tech support are now so BMC
centric that they can't support us, the value of this forum has just
increased exponentially.  Perhaps, it's time for an ARSList IPO.

Barry Lindstrom
Certifiable ARJ



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Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Joe DeSouza]

I sort of agree here but there are just these certain individuals at Remedy 
support I don't mind dealing with as my experience with them has been more than 
satisfactory. To name a couple, I think Alfred from the Server Support team is 
one of their most brilliant server resources, and recently I had a very 
pleasant experience with Barbara from the application support team.. I think 
both of them are based in California..

If Alfred and Barbara are reading this, keep it up, you guys rock!

Cheers
 
Joe D'Souza
Remedy Developer / Consultant,
BearingPoint,
Virginia.



- Original Message 
From: "Meyer, Jennifer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:37:01 AM
Subject: Re: BMC Support Doesn't


Gee, Barry, I've noticed that, too.

At my last position, we kept a running total on our whiteboard.  Every
time we called support, we logged who actually solved the problem, our
admin team or theirs.  Their team remained with a 0 total.

Come to think of it, I don't actually call BMC support: I'm just plain
turned off.  If our morale is low, how must the former Remedy
personnel's be?

J Meyer




-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Lindstrom
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:25 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT-RE: BMC SupportWeb is GARBAGE

Gee...If this is Off Topic, what is on?

The web site may suck, but it's the changes to the underlying support
organization that concern me.

I used to(pre BMC Userworld 06) be able to pick up the phone and call
Remedy tech support with a 50/50 chance of getting an answer to my
question.  AND, if I the person on the other end of the phone didn't
have the answer, they took it as a personal challenge to find somebody
who knew and get that info back to me.

The first time I called BMC Tech Support(post BMC Userworld 06), I got a
BMC support person that didn't seem to understand the issue and didn't
seem to care about finding an answer.

I tried a second time about a month later with the same result.

Since it appears the players behind "Remedy" tech support are now so BMC
centric that they can't support us, the value of this forum has just
increased exponentially.  Perhaps, it's time for an ARSList IPO.

Barry Lindstrom
Certifiable ARJ

   


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Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com

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Re: BMC Support Doesn't

[Meyer, Jennifer]

Gee, Barry, I've noticed that, too.

At my last position, we kept a running total on our whiteboard.  Every
time we called support, we logged who actually solved the problem, our
admin team or theirs.  Their team remained with a 0 total.

Come to think of it, I don't actually call BMC support: I'm just plain
turned off.  If our morale is low, how must the former Remedy
personnel's be?

J Meyer




-Original Message-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Lindstrom
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 10:25 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: OT-RE: BMC SupportWeb is GARBAGE

Gee...If this is Off Topic, what is on?

The web site may suck, but it's the changes to the underlying support
organization that concern me.

I used to(pre BMC Userworld 06) be able to pick up the phone and call
Remedy tech support with a 50/50 chance of getting an answer to my
question.  AND, if I the person on the other end of the phone didn't
have the answer, they took it as a personal challenge to find somebody
who knew and get that info back to me.

The first time I called BMC Tech Support(post BMC Userworld 06), I got a
BMC support person that didn't seem to understand the issue and didn't
seem to care about finding an answer.

I tried a second time about a month later with the same result.

Since it appears the players behind "Remedy" tech support are now so BMC
centric that they can't support us, the value of this forum has just
increased exponentially.  Perhaps, it's time for an ARSList IPO.

Barry Lindstrom
Certifiable ARJ

   


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the Answers Are"

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