[AsburyPark] Re: The Virginia Plan
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another perfectly lucid post. This is good. Thank You So, to arcman's point about it being worthwhile to rehabilitate the Virginia only if you could raise the rents to market rate (I'm presuming from his post that they're not at the moment, but I don't honestly know), would you advocate returning that building to market rate status? There is no rent control ordinance in Asbury Park hence all rents are 'market-rate'. I assume the reference was directed at the issue of maximum possible income from luxury units vs less expensive units. Accepted practice for successful redevelopment is to incorporate a mix of unit price points. (not the case in our situation) And, if yes, what about Jack's point about moving all the people out? Presumably, that would include at least some folks not engaged in illicit activity but who couldn't afford the market rate. Where do they go and who is responsible for helping them find alternative housing? Relocation assistance is only required if the relocation is due to a governmental act - in this case eminent domain condemnation or due to the building being declared unfit for habitation by code officials. Absent that an owner may offer consideration to facilitate vacation of a building. I'm also curious about arcman's point here: Elevators, corridor widths, ceiling heights, plumbing, electrical, fire protection, among countless other things would need to be replaced and retrofitted to meet codes and standards of luxury. Did the renderings to which you referred address those aspects? Who drew them up? The rendering was an exterior view showing the building architecturally restored . Interior improvements are not part of a visual rendering. Certainly mechanical systems and space allocations would be addressed in a building rehab to the extent that the owner/developer would deem necessary. The New Jersey Rehabilitation Subcode would be the guiding regulation. (Unfortunately a moot point since the site is zoned for acquisition, demolition and condo development) Beyond that, it's been reported that both apartment and office buildings, particularly those constructed in the early 20th Century, have contributed at least as much, if not more, than automobiles to the total greehouse gas emissions in the United States. Would/could a rehab of the Virginia and/or Jersey include making them far more energy efficient so that they emit much less greenhouse gases (while also saving the owner a ton of $$$ on both heating and cooling costs)? Going 'Green' would be the decission of the building owner, certainly it is technically possible. (again moot since it is to be torn down) BTW, hopefully it's obvious, but I'm not asking any of these questions out of a preconceived opinion. I don't know enough about the building to have one, so that's why I'm asking in the first place. :-) The building appears to be structurally sound as of my last visit several years ago. Masonry construction (possibly a steel frame, not certain) and interesting unit layouts. For comparison, built in the same time frame as the BCH which is accepted as a viable rehabbed building that suffered from all the same issues of age, layout, size of spaces, etc. Or comparable to the Britwood on the same block which was caved in yet rehabbed very nicely. Unfortunately the Virginia (and the Jersey) are tied up in the very poor redevelopment deal made with Asbury Partners preventing the current owners from moving forward. Werner Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: What a strange place
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i have been thinking that it could be that people are afraid of going on the record questioning the leadership...its easy to rail on hank paulson, but chances are you wouldn't be invited to the Fed Ball anyway...now the mayors ball??...or maybe people are afraid they will need a favor from someone someday, or their relative or friend will take heat etc...or maybe they are afraid they will end up in jail like werner. if that were the case, it wouldn't be surprising. this is NJ, thats how politics operate here. its a disease we don't even know we have. and its Un-American. === Being part of the clique and getting invites certainly dominates the processes in Asbury Park. Critcal discourse and participation in civic affairs is discouraged and duely punished. Werner Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: What a strange place
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i know what you mean. but from a trading point of view your buying debt. and its value, as i said before is dependent on the ability of the people to repay. i understand the government could make money. so, now where did i say i was smarter than everyone else? You said this: As Americans we are constantly distracted by the superficial, disconnected from our communities, we avoid genuine involvement with our local governments and we provide wealth to the companies that screw us in the end. We are intellectually lazy and narcissistic. We care only how we look, what we drive and how that compares to others. I blame American anti intellectualism for a big chunk of that and am amazed that elite could be considered a derogatory remark. So you made a sweeping generalization about a group to which I belong. You even anticipagted our counter-arguement (elitism) in your post. Did you really expect me, as part of the group you criticized, to not respond? You posted something not too long ago about fascism stopping speech. Yet here in practice, on this board, you try the same. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: APP: Security Cameras
TOUCHE'! --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandpiper15 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 sharon_b283@ wrote: Hopefully, they'll catch the ones who bring the drugs into our community. Or, conversely, maybe they'll catch the customers coming in from the rest of the county. Illicit or not, narcotics are a commodity. There's no supply without a demand. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: What a strange place
You said this: As Americans we are constantly distracted by the superficial, disconnected from our communities, we avoid genuine involvement with our local governments and we provide wealth to the companies that screw us in the end. We are intellectually lazy and narcissistic. We care only how we look, what we drive and how that compares to others. I blame American anti intellectualism for a big chunk of that and am amazed that elite could be considered a derogatory remark. So you made a sweeping generalization about a group to which I belong. You even anticipagted our counter-arguement (elitism) in your post. Did you really expect me, as part of the group you criticized, to not respond? You posted something not too long ago about fascism stopping speech. Yet here in practice, on this board, you try the same. as you can clearly see, i included myself in that group. i am an american tommy so don't throw that rovian tribal bs at me. i have two family members that fought in the am rev and a couple in the civ war. they did not fight for what this country has become. we have become soulless, narcissistic and yes.. ignorant. not stupid. we need to move to a world centric perspective or we are not going to make it. paris hilton gets more media play than any elected official. football players make more money than teachers. there is an ad in the TCN for a G-Spot shot. WE are pathetic, and WE can be so much more. throw the elite label at me all you want, i won't go into the many reasons why its absurd to throw it my way. and you didn't prove i said i was smarter than everyone else and now you also have to prove i have tried to quash anyone from posting. i have been begging for discussion. i even suggested we all hang out. i know its rough and all with the white christian male pedestal crumbling. i have a picture in my mind...this old angry white guy standing on a rock. limp and shadow boxing. clinging, clinging, clinging (thats the same as wanting wanting wanting). come on down tommy, it'll be ok and its going to be so much more FUN! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: The Virginia Plan
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Relocation assistance is only required if the relocation is due to a governmental act - in this case eminent domain condemnation or due to the building being declared unfit for habitation by code officials. Absent that an owner may offer consideration to facilitate vacation of a building. Alright, but let's say the owner doesn't feel like it. (According to maubddny's post, the owner of the Jersey didn't feel like fixing his place up, so clearly not every landlord is driven by altruism). So he raises the rent to maximize profit, and you've got upward of two dozen or so law abiding residents out on the street after however many years of calling the Virginia home. Couldn't that engender some pretty raw feelings, along with potentially increasing the homeless population (given the economic climate). Worst case scenario, I realize, but worth considering, no? Going 'Green' would be the decission of the building owner, certainly it is technically possible. (again moot since it is to be torn down) Obviously I haven't pored through the city's building codes, but leaving that up to the owner sounds a little 1992. We're not talking spotted owls here. It's a health issue. Has the city discussed instituting some requirements in this regard for both building rehab and new construction? Unfortunately the Virginia (and the Jersey) are tied up in the very poor redevelopment deal made with Asbury Partners preventing the current owners from moving forward. Well, this whole thread spun off from the Fastlane thread by pointing out the illicit drug sales going on in the building and wondering what could be done about it. Does the redevelopment deal prevent the owners from enforcing the law within their own buildings? Kicking out residents who are convicted of even a drug misdemeanor? If not, and they just don't feel like doing anything about it, can't the zoning authority and/or police department exert some muscle there? Beyond that, hasn't Partners reneged on the redevelopment deal time and time again by missing several deadlines? What is keeping the city from saying You broke your end of the deal. It's off. Time to go back to the table. Was there some fine print in there that said party A could waver on some of the details but party B had to strictly adhere to ever line in the plan? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: The Virginia Plan
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, maubddny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or comparable to the Britwood on the same block which was caved in yet rehabbed very nicely. The owners of the Britwood Court condos have had close to 1 millin dollars in assessments in the past three years to fix the shoddy work of rehabilitation. That is the reason why they will not let the builder move forward on The Jersey... he refused to make infrastructure repairs as required. === To clarify your concern - the owners are now the collective 'Condo Association' not the party that did the rehabilitation. I am aware that several key issues regarding the rehab were not done in the most workmanlike manner. The responsibility for that likely lays with the City through its construction inspection department. Ultimately they sign off on the quality of work. Has there been litigation to your knowledge? Builder, City, Association ? - is that how you conclude that the 'builder refused to make repairs' ? It is however, not the reason for denying rehab of the Jersey building. That is due to the 'Deal' crafted allowing Asbury Partners sole redevelopment rights to all properties not specifically excluded from eminent domain action. The Britwood was excluded - the Jersey (and Virginia) were not. The Jersey owner litigated and lost. End result - the Jersey and Virginia are not attractive for rehab due to the waterfront redevelopment agreement. Werner Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: What a strange place
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The bad reporters are thinking of this from the point of view of the people who owe the money to the banks. To those people it is a debt, because they owe. The government is not buying a thing from them. This is an ASSET PURCHASE, not a DEBT PURCHASE. In fact, in the end, if all goes well, the government will make money off the deal (time will tell). Fair points but it gets a little murky when you get into the CDO's which are private contracts insuring against bad borrowers. Is the government buying the insurance policy (insured) or being the insurer? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: What a strange place
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you made a sweeping generalization about a group to which I belong. You even anticipagted our counter-arguement (elitism) in your post. Did you really expect me, as part of the group you criticized, to not respond? You posted something not too long ago about fascism stopping speech. Yet here in practice, on this board, you try the same. Here's the thing about Americans. You can send their kids off by the thousands to get their balls blown off in foreign lands for no reason at all, saddle them with billions in debt year after congressional year while they spend their winters cheerfully watching game shows and football, pull the rug out from under their mortgages, and leave them living off their credit cards and their Wal-Mart salaries while you move their jobs to China and Bangalore. And none of it matters, so long as you remember a few months before Election Day to offer them a two-bit caricature culled from some cutting-room-floor episode of Roseanne as part of your presidential ticket. And if she's a good enough likeness of a loudmouthed middle-American archetype, as Sarah Palin is, John Q. Public will drop his giant-size bag of Doritos in gratitude, wipe the Sizzlin' Picante dust from his lips and rush to the booth to vote for her. Not because it makes sense, or because it has a chance of improving his life or anyone else's, but simply because it appeals to the low-humming narcissism that substitutes for his personality, because the image on TV reminds him of the mean, brainless slob he sees in the mirror every morning. Sarah Palin is a symbol of everything that is wrong with the modern United States. As a representative of our political system, she's a new low in reptilian villainy, the ultimate cynical masterwork of puppeteers like Karl Rove. But more than that, she is a horrifying symbol of how little we ask for in return for the total surrender of our political power. Not only is Sarah Palin a fraud, she's the tawdriest, most half-assed fraud imaginable, 20 floors below the lowest common denominator, a character too dumb even for daytime TV -and this country is going to eat her up, cheering her every step of the way. All because most Americans no longer have the energy to do anything but lie back and allow ourselves to be jacked off by the calculating thieves who run this grasping consumer paradise we call a nation. - Matt Taibbi is a writer for Rolling Stone. © 2008 RollingStone.com All rights reserved. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Full Rolling Stone Story
http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/100551 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: What a strange place
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: as you can clearly see, i included myself in that group. i am an american tommy so don't throw that rovian tribal bs at me. Rovian tribal bs? - but I thought you celebrate diversity. If so, what's wrong with recognizing tribes? i have two family members that fought in the am rev and a couple in the civ war. For which side? we have become soulless, narcissistic and yes.. ignorant. There are two shores and two borders I can show you. Tap into your inner Marco Polo and go in search of a people you like. we need to move to a world centric perspective or we are not going to make it. Never. NEVER I'm America centric and staying that way. paris hilton gets more media play than any elected official. Blame the left wing media. football players make more money than teachers. They should, because they earn their employers more money than teachers earn their employers. there is an ad in the TCN for a G-Spot shot. I don't know what that is and please don't anyone tell me. WE are pathetic, and WE can be so much more. YOU can speak for yourself. i even suggested we all hang out. Speaking of, I didn't see you in Twisted Tree when I went there last week. Anyone catch the Johnny Cash show there last night? i know its rough and all with the white christian male pedestal crumbling. i have a picture in my mind...this old angry white guy standing on a rock. limp and shadow boxing. clinging, clinging, clinging (thats the same as wanting wanting wanting). come on down tommy, it'll be ok and its going to be so much more FUN! See, now this part, right here, is why you're still my favorite writer in TCN. What imagery! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: What a strange place
In a message dated 9/29/2008 11:36:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: All because most Americans no longer have the energy to do anything but lie back and allow ourselves to be jacked off by the calculating thieves who run this grasping consumer paradise we call a nation. Similarly: No Longer masters of our own fate? Consumerism, Affluenza? Andrew Bacevich has described himself as a Catholic conservative and initially published writings in a number of traditionally conservative American political magazines. (Wiki) From transcript here http://tinyurl.com/4need5 http://tinyurl.com/4need5 or watch here http://tinyurl.com/3no33h http://tinyurl.com/3no33h (Bill Moyers Journal) ANDREW BACEVICH: I think there's a tendency on the part of policy makers and probably a tendency on the part of many Americans to think that the problems we face are problems that are out there somewhere, beyond our borders. And that if we can fix those problems, then we'll be able to continue the American way of life as it has long existed. I think it's fundamentally wrong. Our major problems are at home .Physician, heal thyself, and you begin healing yourself by looking at yourself in the mirror and seeing yourself as you really are . We want to be able to pump gas into our cars regardless of how big they may happen to be, in order to be able to drive wherever we want to be able to drive. And we want to be able to do these things without having to think about whether or not the book's balanced at the end of the month, or the end of the fiscal year. And therefore, we want this unending line of credit . What neither of these candidates will be able to, I think, accomplish is to persuade us to look ourselves in the mirror, to see the direction in which we are headed. And from my point of view, it's a direction towards ever greater debt and dependency . Well, we don't live within our means. I mean, the nation doesn't, and increasingly, individual Americans don't. Our saving - the individual savings rate in this country is below zero. The personal debt, national debt, however you want to measure it, as individuals and as a government, and as a nation we assume an endless line of credit. As individuals, the line of credit is not endless, that's one of the reasons why we're having this current problem with the housing crisis, and so on. And my view would be that the nation's assumption, that its line of credit is endless, is also going to be shown to be false. And when that day occurs it's going to be a black day, indeed . Americans are no longer masters of their own fate. Our negative trade balance with the world is something in the order of $800 billion per year. That's $800 billion of stuff that we buy, so that we can consume, that is $800 billion greater than the amount of stuff that we sell to them. That's a big number. I mean, it's a big number even relative to the size of our economy. Do we get balanced budgets? Do we get serious as opposed to simply rhetorical attention to traditional social values? The answer's no. Because all of that really has simply been part of a package of tactics that Republicans have employed to get elected and to - and then to stay in office. = Andrew Bacevich speaks truth to power, no matter who's in power, which may be why those on both the left and right listen to him. Perhaps it's also because when he challenges American myths and illusions, he does so from a patriotism forged in the fire of experience as a soldier in Vietnam. After 23 years in the army, this West Point graduate has been teaching international relations and history at Boston University. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Full Rolling Stone Story
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/100551 problem is obama has little behind him as well - more then palin. He's no prize either if you really look at his track record. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Full Rolling Stone Story
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/100551 problem is obama has little behind him as well - more then palin. He's no prize either if you really look at his track record. Neither did reagan. It is what dream you want to buy into. I look at Obama and I see a thoughful response, non-partisan response to many of the issue facing us. When i look at Palin I see - well a pitbull with lipstick. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: What a strange place
Sorry 'bout that. All the paragraphing disappeared in transmitting. Hard to read. Maybe second try below is easier on the eyes. In a message dated 9/29/2008 2:01:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 9/29/2008 11:36:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: All because most Americans no longer have the energy to do anything but lie back and allow ourselves to be jacked off by the calculating thieves who run this grasping consumer paradise we call a nation. Similarly: No Longer masters of our own fate? Consumerism, Affluenza? Andrew Bacevich has described himself as a Catholic conservative and initially published writings in a number of traditionally conservative American political magazines. (Wiki) From transcript here _http://tinyurl.com/4need5_ (http://tinyurl.com/4need5) http://tinyurl.com/4need5 or watch here http://tinyurl.com/3no33h http://tinyurl.com/3no33h(Bill Moyers Journal) ANDREW BACEVICH: I think there's a tendency on the part of policy makers and probably a tendency on the part of many Americans to think that the problems we face are problems that are out there somewhere, beyond our borders. And that if we can fix those problems, then we'll be able to continue the American way of life as it has long existed. I think it's fundamentally wrong. Our major problems are at home…. Physician, heal thyself, and you begin healing yourself by looking at yourself in the mirror and seeing yourself as you really are…. We want to be able to pump gas into our cars regardless of how big they may happen to be, in order to be able to drive wherever we want to be able to drive. And we want to be able to do these things without having to think about whether or not the book's balanced at the end of the month, or the end of the fiscal year. And therefore, we want this unending line of credit…. What neither of these candidates will be able to, I think, accomplish is to persuade us to look ourselves in the mirror, to see the direction in which we are headed. And from my point of view, it's a direction towards ever greater debt and dependency…. Well, we don't live within our means. I mean, the nation doesn't, and increasingly, individual Americans don't. Our saving - the individual savings rate in this country is below zero. The personal debt, national debt, however you want to measure it, as individuals and as a government, and as a nation we assume an endless line of credit. As individuals, the line of credit is not endless, that's one of the reasons why we're having this current problem with the housing crisis, and so on. And my view would be that the nation's assumption, that its line of credit is endless, is also going to be shown to be false. And when that day occurs it's going to be a black day, indeed…. Americans are no longer masters of their own fate. Our negative trade balance with the world is something in the order of $800 billion per year. That's $800 billion of stuff that we buy, so that we can consume, that is $800 billion greater than the amount of stuff that we sell to them. That's a big number. I mean, it's a big number even relative to the size of our economy.… Do we get balanced budgets? Do we get serious as opposed to simply rhetorical attention to traditional social values? The answer's no. Because all of that really has simply been part of a package of tactics that Republicans have employed to get elected and to - and then to stay in office Moyers: Andrew Bacevich speaks truth to power, no matter who's in power, which may be why those on both the left and right listen to him. Perhaps it's also because when he challenges American myths and illusions, he does so from a patriotism forged in the fire of experience as a soldier in Vietnam. After 23 years in the army, this West Point graduate has been teaching international relations and history at Boston University. **Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall0001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Full Rolling Stone Story
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . Neither did reagan. It is what dream you want to buy into. I look at Obama and I see a thoughful response, non-partisan response to many of the issue facing us. When i look at Palin I see - well a pitbull with lipstick. didn't say I am the least bit impressed with her. Maybe if I was stuck in a bar in Alaska it would be a different story. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Full Rolling Stone Story
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/100551 Worst political article I have ever read. Beats out the other 45 political articles I've read from Rolling Stone for the number one spot. Distasteful, factless, and just plain arrogant... just like all of their other one-sided political garbage. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Full Rolling Stone Story
I saw an interview with Obama yesterday, in which he was asked about Palin's Russia/Alaska proximity quote from the Couric interview. His answer blew me away. He didn't comment, and instead said that It's for the American people to form their own opinion and that he was running against McCain, not Palin. That's class in my opinion. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote: http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/100551 problem is obama has little behind him as well - more then palin. He's no prize either if you really look at his track record. Neither did reagan. It is what dream you want to buy into. I look at Obama and I see a thoughful response, non-partisan response to many of the issue facing us. When i look at Palin I see - well a pitbull with lipstick. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Full Rolling Stone Story
It's brilliant. On Sep 29, 2008, at 2:59 PM, arcman210 wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/100551 Worst political article I have ever read. Beats out the other 45 political articles I've read from Rolling Stone for the number one spot. Distasteful, factless, and just plain arrogant... just like all of their other one-sided political garbage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] 12.5% Interest Rate......
I think our first house we purchased in 1986, I had a 12.5% interest rate. I don't recall anyone feeling sorry for us. We got married, lived in an apartment in Twinbroook in Ocean Twp for one year as we completed college and SAVED every f'in penny we could find. We first looked for houses, the only place we could of afford would of been Kensburg. Enough said. Our Plan B, find an investment property whiich we did in Ocean Twp back then. 3 family (2 houses, 3 units). Final sale price: $170,000. My new wife then was making $15k a year commuting to the city at Merrill. Big bucks. Me I jsut recall telling the recruiter 350 week !? I can make more cutting grass... two weeks later I called and took the job. I think we refied that house from the 12% range to 8.5% to 6.5% over the years, Still have it. One car, her VW rabbit Dis. We packed our own lunches... Dinner was noodles or noodles or mexican home made. Or mooched off my parents... The REAL problem with MORTGAGES is that people over extended THEMSELVES. No one else did it. The banks/borkers made it easy cause they found fees and the ability to dump the notes off to the investment houses who were equally greedy. The loans that were being offered got crazy by the day: 1. Skip payment Loans like a hybrid interest only with kickers in it 2. No doc loans - even if you COULD show documetnation, the brokers and banks were pushing NO DOC loans. The name ALONE should of rang bells. I remember telling the bank look, I have PROOF of income... For them, the HIGHER RATE. I wrote about a number of scenarios on RentLaw.com. Not that I'm a writer, but there are no experts on wall st either. The entire home buying process / financing process has to reexamined real, real close. As one guy on Bloomberg pointed out, the Savings and Loans were rescued just tweny years ago - long forgotten. In the meantime, there are a few real good local banks that are pretty secure. I'd stop by and visit one. Real banking for real people. A quick Wachovia story... I did a small home equity with them back in july. They were supposed to pay off the cars and send me the balance. They paid off the cars, sent me the balance of the loan, BUT also sent me a check for the amount of the loan. I figured they didn't need it, so I held it for them, figured it was safer with me then them. Took them a week to call for it. Two days to call me and tell me they will give me wire instructions, then I called them and reminded them. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Why should the people bail out Wall Street?
I'm asking a very simplistic question. I live within my means. I don't have any debt. I would never, ever think about living beyond my means, nor would I buy a house that I couldn't afford. That being said, why should any of us agree on this bailout plan? Finally, as an Obama supporter, I lost a bit of respect for him today, because he supports the bailout, and so does McCain. This makes me very nervous about our countries future. Is there no alternative to this bailout? And, is it just me, or is in incredibly absurd that we are allowing certain members of our government the luxury of a day off because of a religious holiday? I'll be working. Why aren't they? Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Why should the people bail out Wall Street?
--- government the luxury of a day off because of a religious holiday? I'll be working. Why aren't they? I;m working right now. Drive by my office. Stay open on Xmas as well and new years day It's now an option as a floating holiday - or in some schools in areas where there is a heavier J population - close them down. Like Ocean Township Two days off. We've had these discussions before. shana tova and Laila Tov (I had to google that one) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Why should the people bail out Wall Street?
I'm an equal opportunity religious hater. To me, they are all BS. The only redeeming quality of religion is it's ability to bring people together as a support group. Why can't we do this on our own, without mythology? Why not have non-religious holidays just because we all work so hard? Christmas depresses me, and it makes me ponder the absurdity of a holiday that promotes spending excess. It's total hypocrisy. Spend spend spend, in the name of jesus. I'm sure god would approve. Sorry to sound so offensive, but we need to wake up on a global level and stop letting mythology rule our lives. When the stock market crashes, if it does, how can we justify the fact that some of the people guiding our destiny are on holiday because their religion gives them the opportunity? --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- government the luxury of a day off because of a religious holiday? I'll be working. Why aren't they? I;m working right now. Drive by my office. Stay open on Xmas as well and new years day It's now an option as a floating holiday - or in some schools in areas where there is a heavier J population - close them down. Like Ocean Township Two days off. We've had these discussions before. shana tova and Laila Tov (I had to google that one) Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Why should the people bail out Wall Street?
In a message dated 9/29/2008 11:35:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: shana tova and Laila Tov (I had to google that one) L'Shanah Tovah Tikatevu, 5769 **Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall0001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
