[AsburyPark] Re: Whose Property is it??
Werner, I have been reading your posts now for months. I can't help but get offended when you imply, and not subtly, everyone is an idiot but you. I have read your posts and heard you speak and while I think you are brilliant on many issues emotional growth, I imagine, is not one of them. You can explain the issue in simplistic terms with out implying people are stupid for not understanding it. I was at the council meeting and while you had the last 4 years to attend every meeting and committee that took place in Asbury regarding the redevelopment many of us were working full time and were unable to attend. I want to mention that Property Law is a complex issue. I took many classes in it at law school and it continues to befuddle me. And it is not only me. Property Law questions asked on the bar exam in all the states are the lowest scored questions. There are six subject asked for the bar; torts, constitutional law, property, criminal law, contracts, evidence. Property law questions are always the questions that most people get wrong. Encroachments, adverse possession, easements, easements by prescription, eminent domain each one of these issues are complex and then adding city ordinance to them manages to make them a little more confusing. So while you seem to have a grasp on it all please stop implying people's inability to fully understand what is going on are ignorant. Amy Quinn Santander Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Whose Property is it??
I was at the council meeting and while you had the last 4 years to attend every meeting and committee that took place in Asbury regarding the redevelopment many of us were working full time and were unable to attend. I want to mention that Property Law is a complex issue. I took many classes in it at law school and it continues to befuddle me. Amy Quinn, Welcome to this group. We formerly had a sight impaired Bishop, purporting to be a lawyer, whose opinions on most topics were heavily laden with dogma but rarely proffered legal opinion. Your tone in critiquing Werner is simultaneously direct yet helpful, something few of us have mastered; your legal background is sorely needed. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Amy Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Werner, I have been reading your posts now for months. I can't help but get offended when you imply, and not subtly, everyone is an idiot but you. I have read your posts and heard you speak and while I think you are brilliant on many issues emotional growth, I imagine, is not one of them. You can explain the issue in simplistic terms with out implying people are stupid for not understanding it. I was at the council meeting and while you had the last 4 years to attend every meeting and committee that took place in Asbury regarding the redevelopment many of us were working full time and were unable to attend. I want to mention that Property Law is a complex issue. I took many classes in it at law school and it continues to befuddle me. And it is not only me. Property Law questions asked on the bar exam in all the states are the lowest scored questions. There are six subject asked for the bar; torts, constitutional law, property, criminal law, contracts, evidence. Property law questions are always the questions that most people get wrong. Encroachments, adverse possession, easements, easements by prescription, eminent domain each one of these issues are complex and then adding city ordinance to them manages to make them a little more confusing. So while you seem to have a grasp on it all please stop implying people's inability to fully understand what is going on are ignorant. Amy Quinn Santander Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Whose Property is it??
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Skip Bernstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was at the council meeting and while you had the last 4 years to attend every meeting and committee that took place in Asbury regarding the redevelopment many of us were working full time and were unable to attend. I want to mention that Property Law is a complex issue. I took many classes in it at law school and it continues to befuddle me. Amy Quinn, Welcome to this group. We formerly had a sight impaired Bishop, purporting to be a lawyer, whose opinions on most topics were heavily laden with dogma but rarely proffered legal opinion. Your tone in critiquing Werner is simultaneously direct yet helpful, something few of us have mastered; your legal background is sorely needed. I have to defend Werner on this. His insight and dedication have been invaluable. Like all of us, he may not see other points of view at all times, but I certainly don't think he has tried to make anyone feel like an idiot. Passion should not be misinterpretated as conceit. This forum and AP is better for having Werner. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Whose Property is it??
Dan wrote: I have to defend Werner on this. His insight and dedication have been invaluable. Like all of us, he may not see other points of view at all times, but I certainly don't think he has tried to make anyone feel like an idiot. Passion should not be misinterpretated as conceit. This forum and AP is better for having Werner. Hi Dan, I agree totally with you on this. Werner is so passionate about this city and wants so much to see it restored to its former glory that he may sometimes come off in a manner that may seem abrasvive, especially if you do not know him. I think as Amy gets to know him, she will, hopefully, regard him as a positive force in this city. Frank D'Alessandro Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Whose Property is it??
Amy, Beautifully said. I am only versed in Business and Tort Law. Would have to borrow a Property Law book from one of my Attorney friends who deal in that type of thing. I only know Contracts and things of that nature, but you have put this subject so simply, even I can understand it. I don't purport to know everything and I'm learning from people like you. Thanks!SharonBoone[EMAIL PROTECTED]--AmyQuinn[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:Werner,Ihavebeenreadingyourpostsnowformonths.Ican'thelpbutgetoffendedwhenyouimply,andnotsubtly,everyoneisanidiotbutyou.IhavereadyourpostsandheardyouspeakandwhileIthinkyouarebrilliantonmanyissuesemotionalgrowth,Iimagine,isnotoneofthem.Youcanexplaintheissueinsimplistictermswithoutimplyingpeoplearestupidfornotunderstandingit.Iwasatthecouncilmeetingandwhileyouhadthelast4yearstoattendeverymeetingandcommitteethattookplaceinAsburyregardingtheredevelopmentmanyofuswereworkingfulltimeandwereunabletoattend.IwanttomentionthatPropertyLawisacomplexissue.Itookmanyclassesinitatlawschoolanditcontinuestobefuddleme.Anditisnotonlyme.PropertyLawquestionsaskedonthebarexaminallthestatesarethelowestscoredquestions.Therearesixsubjectaskedforthebar;torts,constitutionallaw,property,criminallaw,contracts,evidence.Propertylawquestionsarealwaysthequestionsthatmostpeoplegetwrong.Encroachments,adversepossession,easements,easementsbyprescription,eminentdomaineachoneoftheseissuesarecomplexandthenaddingcityordinancetothemmanagestomakethemalittlemoreconfusing.Sowhileyouseemtohaveagrasponitallpleasestopimplyingpeople'sinabilitytofullyunderstandwhatisgoingonareignorant.AmyQuinnSantanderYahoo!GroupsSponsor~--GetfastaccesstoyourfavoriteYahoo!Groups.MakeYahoo!yourhomepagehttp://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM~-Yahoo!GroupsLinks*Tovisityourgroupontheweb,goto:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/*Tounsubscribefromthisgroup,sendanemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]*YouruseofYahoo!Groupsissubjectto:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Whose property is it?
Thank you for clarifying that and now, I know what you mean, but does Werner? Just kidding!SharonBoone[EMAIL PROTECTED]--"dfsavgny"[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:---InAsburyPark@yahoogroups.com,"SharonG.Boone"[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:outofAsburyParkandaskaNeptuneRealtoraboutit.Thereisadisclaimer,thatifyoudon'tcitetheencroachment,after10yearstheland,evenifit'sasliver,becomesyours!That'sthecaveat!SowhereisthecodeenforcerorwhoeverisinchargeSharon,youaretalkingaboutAdversePossession,averycomplexlegalissue.Itisnotsoeasyasthatandcourtsrarely,ifever,awardadversepossession.Thereisacriteriatoaccomplishit,whichisdifficult,ifnotimpossible,tomeet.Iwillleaveplanning,etc.toWerner,butheiswrongonthelawandpropertyrights.Wearetalkingaboutpropertyrights,andweareusingtheshorthandofPROPERTY.Wellunderthatdefinition,yeswhateverrights-of-way(ROW)theCitymayhaveoverprivatepropertythoserightscanbeconsideredPUBLICPROPERTY.However,whatIamsayingisthateveryrightinPROPERTY,whenitislessthanfeesimple,isspecificallydelineatedinacontractoragreement.Assumedly,Bradelyorthefounders,whensellingthetractsseitherRESERVEDsomerightsforthepublicinoroverPRIVATEPROPERTYortheCitylateracquiredthoserights.Whateverthecasemaybe,thoserights,nowreferredhereinasPUBLICPROPERTY(morespecifically,publicrightsinprivateproperty)areclearlydelineatedandlimitedinsomedocument(s)oragreement(s).Youhavetoknowwhatthoserights,ortheirlimitationsare.Youjustcan;tsayitispublicpropertyandprivatepropertyownerscannotdoanythingwiththeirownproperty.IfthepublicabridgesorincreasesitsRIGHT(orproperty)inoroverprivateproperty,thenitisatakingandtheConstitutionrequiresjustcompensation.AsIsaidbefore,thePUBLICcanregulatePRIVATEpropertythroughzoning,policepowers,etc.,which,iftheyarenotconsideredconfiscatory,arenottakingsanddonotrequirecompensation.Ifyouwanttoregulatefences,passalawforgodssakes,butdon'ttellmeIdon;towntheproperty.IIdidn't,Iwouldn'tbepayingtaxesonit.Wernerisaswrongaswrongcanbe.Yahoo!GroupsSponsor~--GetfastaccesstoyourfavoriteYahoo!Groups.MakeYahoo!yourhomepagehttp://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM~-Yahoo!GroupsLinks*Tovisityourgroupontheweb,goto:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/*Tounsubscribefromthisgroup,sendanemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]*YouruseofYahoo!Groupsissubjectto:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[AsburyPark] Re: Whose Property is it??
Amy, I don't think I know you. Have we ever met, socialized? Thank you for your candor, kindly allow me the same latitude. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Amy Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Werner, I have been reading your posts now for months. I can't help but get offended when you imply, and not subtly, everyone is an idiot but you. Your feelings and reaction to my personality are yours to deal with. Some people clash and some don't, that's just the way life is. Don't shoot the messenger. I have read your posts and heard you speak and while I think you are brilliant on many issues emotional growth, I imagine, is not one of them. You can explain the issue in simplistic terms with out implying people are stupid for not understanding it. Thank you for the compliment, but your psycological evaluation of me is a bit premature as we have no social/interpersonal relationship that I am aware of. I was at the council meeting and while you had the last 4 years to attend every meeting and committee that took place in Asbury regarding the redevelopment many of us were working full time and were unable to attend. Perhaps then you would view my experiance as a resource after getting over any perceived personality clashes. I want to mention that Property Law is a complex issue. I took many classes in it at law school and it continues to befuddle me. And it is not only me. Property Law questions asked on the bar exam in all the states are the lowest scored questions. There are six subject asked for the bar; torts, constitutional law, property, criminal law, contracts, evidence. Property law questions are always the questions that most people get wrong. Encroachments, adverse possession, easements, easements by prescription, eminent domain each one of these issues are complex and then adding city ordinance to them manages to make them a little more confusing. Well, Now that we have introductions out of the way, let's meet for coffe/lunch/drinks and get to work figuring out if private property owners should be permitted to use or build on City property adjacent to theirs. A good Historian and a good Lawyer is just what Asbury Park needs. So while you seem to have a grasp on it all please stop implying people's inability to fully understand what is going on are ignorant. Will do, It's just the frustration of dealing with a dysfunctional City. You must be new here :-) Werner Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Whose Property is it??
Werner, Are you Woody Allen? You seem to want to dissect everything and everyone! Like Amy said.Can't you just let it be? You're funny, man! Really!SharonBoone[EMAIL PROTECTED]--"wernerapnj"[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:Amy,Idon'tthinkIknowyou.Haveweevermet,socialized?Thankyouforyourcandor,kindlyallowmethesamelatitude.---InAsburyPark@yahoogroups.com,AmyQuinn[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:Werner,Ihavebeenreadingyourpostsnowformonths.Ican'thelpbutgetoffendedwhenyouimply,andnotsubtly,everyoneisanidiotbutyou.Yourfeelingsandreactiontomypersonalityareyourstodealwith.Somepeopleclashandsomedon't,that'sjustthewaylifeis.Don'tshootthemessenger.IhavereadyourpostsandheardyouspeakandwhileIthinkyouarebrilliantonmanyissuesemotionalgrowth,Iimagine,isnotoneofthem.Youcanexplaintheissueinsimplistictermswithoutimplyingpeoplearestupidfornotunderstandingit.Thankyouforthecompliment,butyourpsycologicalevaluationofmeisabitprematureaswehavenosocial/interpersonalrelationshipthatIamawareof.Iwasatthecouncilmeetingandwhileyouhadthelast4yearstoattendeverymeetingandcommitteethattookplaceinAsburyregardingtheredevelopmentmanyofuswereworkingfulltimeandwereunabletoattend.Perhapsthenyouwouldviewmyexperianceasaresourceaftergettingoveranyperceivedpersonalityclashes.IwanttomentionthatPropertyLawisacomplexissue.Itookmanyclassesinitatlawschoolanditcontinuestobefuddleme.Anditisnotonlyme.PropertyLawquestionsaskedonthebarexaminallthestatesarethelowestscoredquestions.Therearesixsubjectaskedforthebar;torts,constitutionallaw,property,criminallaw,contracts,evidence.Propertylawquestionsarealwaysthequestionsthatmostpeoplegetwrong.Encroachments,adversepossession,easements,easementsbyprescription,eminentdomaineachoneoftheseissuesarecomplexandthenaddingcityordinancetothemmanagestomakethemalittlemoreconfusing.Well,Nowthatwehaveintroductionsoutoftheway,let'smeetforcoffe/lunch/drinksandgettoworkfiguringoutifprivatepropertyownersshouldbepermittedtouseorbuildonCitypropertyadjacenttotheirs.AgoodHistorianandagoodLawyerisjustwhatAsburyParkneeds.Sowhileyouseemtohaveagrasponitallpleasestopimplyingpeople'sinabilitytofullyunderstandwhatisgoingonareignorant.Willdo,It'sjustthefrustrationofdealingwithadysfunctionalCity.Youmustbenewhere:-)WernerYahoo!GroupsSponsor~--GetfastaccesstoyourfavoriteYahoo!Groups.MakeYahoo!yourhomepagehttp://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM~-Yahoo!GroupsLinks*Tovisityourgroupontheweb,goto:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/*Tounsubscribefromthisgroup,sendanemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]*YouruseofYahoo!Groupsissubjectto:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ SPONSORED LINKS Asbury park home Asbury park nj Asbury park hotel Asbury park foreclosure Asbury park real estate Asbury park YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[AsburyPark] Re: Whose property is it?
Dan, we're having a major miscommunication here. Here's the scenario: I assert that 1+2=3. You, in response, say I am wrong because 2+2=4. Clearly we are both correct aside from the fact that you are wrong in asserting that I am wrong. Instead of addressing the issue that I raise you are going off on a tangent. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will leave planning, etc. to Werner, but he is wrong on the law and property rights. Ahh, You throw down the gauntlet. OK here we go. ... Assumedly, Bradely or the founders, when selling the tractss either RESERVED some rights for the public in or over PRIVATE PROPERTY or the City later acquired those rights. Whatever the case may be, those rights, now referred herein as PUBLIC PROPERTY (more specifically, public rights in private property) ... You just can;t say it is public property and private property owners cannot do anything with their own property. Not the case and not the topic of discussion, see my previous post. There's the tangent argument you are making. ...If the public abridges or increases its RIGHT (or property)in or over private property, then it is a taking and the Constitution requires just compensation. There you go again If you want to regulate fences, pass a law for godssakes, but don't tell me I don;t own the property. I I didn't, I wouldn't be paying taxes on it. Werner is as wrong as wrong can be. Back to the issue: The boundry between the City street and your private lot is in the area between your home and the sidewalk. Your fence is in the City Street for legal purposes. You are not paying taxes for part of your front yard because you do not own it. Are you a betting man? A six pack or $1,000.00,(your choice), that I am right. How far do you want to go with this? Werner Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: Whose property is it?
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Sharon G. Boone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: out of Asbury Park and ask a Neptune Realtor about it. There is a disclaimer ,that if you don't cite the encroachment, after 10 years the land, even if it's a sliver, becomes yours! That's the caveat! So where is the code enforcer or whoever is in charge Sharon, you are talking about Adverse Possession, a very complex legal issue. It is not so easy as that and courts rarely, if ever, award adverse possession. There is a criteria to accomplish it, which is difficult, if not impossible, to meet. I will leave planning, etc. to Werner, but he is wrong on the law and property rights. We are talking about property rights, and we are using the short hand of PROPERTY. Well under that definition, yes whatever rights-of-way (ROW)the City may have over private property those rights can be considered PUBLIC PROPERTY. However, what I am saying is that every right in PROPERTY, when it is less than fee simple, is specifically delineated in a contract or agreement. Assumedly, Bradely or the founders, when selling the tractss either RESERVED some rights for the public in or over PRIVATE PROPERTY or the City later acquired those rights. Whatever the case may be, those rights, now referred herein as PUBLIC PROPERTY (more specifically, public rights in private property) are clearly delineated and limited in some document(s) or agreement(s). You have to know what those rights, or their limitations are. You just can;t say it is public property and private property owners cannot do anything with their own property. If the public abridges or increases its RIGHT (or property)in or over private property, then it is a taking and the Constitution requires just compensation. As I said before, the PUBLIC can regulate PRIVATE property through zoning, police powers, etc., which, if they are not considered confiscatory, are not takings and do not require compensation. If you want to regulate fences, pass a law for godssakes, but don't tell me I don;t own the property. I I didn't, I wouldn't be paying taxes on it. Werner is as wrong as wrong can be. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
