Re: [Assam] Ranjan Gogoi new CJ of Punjab, Haryana HC (The Assam Tribune , 12.02.2011)
Sorrye. Friday evening - one too many gin with Kaji Tenga. :-) My bad! From: Chan Mahanta To: Dilip Deka ; A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Cc: Chan Mahanta Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Ranjan Gogoi new CJ of Punjab, Haryana HC (The Assam Tribune , 12.02.2011) O'Deka: Since when have Gogois been Bodo? O'm On Feb 11, 2011, at 7:55 PM, Dilip Deka wrote: > This is the kind of news we all want to hear, good for Assam and good for > India, also good for the minorities and the majority in India. > You get my drift.? > I am sure Ranjan Gogoi is an exceptional candidate for the position. But the > news should motivate other Bodos to work towards positions like his. > Don't you think it is achievable? > Dilip Deka > == > > > > From: Buljit Buragohain > To: assam@assamnet.org; assamonl...@yahoogroups.com; > friendsofassa...@yahoogroups.com; northeastin...@yahoogroups.com; > silc...@yahoogroups.com; axomiya_stude...@yahoogroups.com > Cc: > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:11 PM > Subject: [Assam] Ranjan Gogoi new CJ of Punjab, Haryana HC (The Assam Tribune > , 12.02.2011) > > Ranjan Gogoi new CJ of Punjab, Haryana HC > Law Reporter > > GUWAHATI, Feb 11 – Justice Ranjan Gogoi, a former Judge of the Gauhati High >Court and a present judge of the Punjab and Haryana High Court, has been >appointed Chief Justice of the Punjab and Haryana High Court, said a >notification issued by the Union Ministry of Law and Justice today. Gogoi will >be sworn in tomorrow. > Born to Keshab Chandra Gogoi, the former Chief Minister of Assam and Shanti > Gogoi, the new Chief Justice was a brilliant student of St. Stephen’s College > where he majored in History. > > (The Assam Tribune ,12.02.2011) > > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] From ToI?
Perhaps the correction needs start with Chidambaram himself? Heard that he is one of the most corrupt with blessings from Karunanidhi et el. Etia mur Madraazot juwa baat bondho hol neki? :) Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -Original Message- From: Chan Mahanta Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2011 03:04:25 To: Subject: [Assam] From ToI? http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/There-is-governance-and-ethical-deficit-admits-Chidambaram/articleshow/7479866.cms There is governance and ethical deficit, admits Chidambaram, TNN, Feb 12, 2011, 04.17am IST, Article, Comments (12), Tags:Wall Street Journal|P Chidambaram|Manmohan Singh, NEW DELHI: There is a governance and ethical deficit that the Manmohan Singh government needs to take serious note of, home minister P Chidambaram has said while referring to concerns raised recently by business and industry leaders. , In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, the home minister said, "I think we should take serious note of the concerns expressed by captains of industry and business. There is indeed a governance deficit in some areas and perhaps there is also an ethical deficit." , Chidambaram underlined that the malaise is not unique to the UPA coalition. But his candid remarks come in the backdrop of the government's bid to contain the negative political fallout of scams ranging from the Commonwealth Games fiddle to telecom graft cases. , In mid-January, industrialists and former judges wrote an "open letter" to all political leaders speaking of "widespread governance deficit in almost every sphere of national life". The home minister seemed to be taking a cue from the letter. , "We have from time to time tried to put in systems to meet the challenges of these deficits. But it is obvious the systems put in place are not entirely adequate and therefore any suggestion to improve the systems should be taken into account seriously," he was quoted as saying to WSJ by PTI., Read more: There is governance and ethical deficit, admits Chidambaram - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/There-is-governance-and-ethical-deficit-admits-Chidambaram/articleshow/7479866.cms#ixzz1Di4a7sKS> >"We have from time to time tried to put in systems to meet the challenges of >these deficits. But it is obvious the systems put in place are not entirely >adequate and therefore any suggestion to improve the systems should be taken >>into account seriously," *** Really? And pray, why so? >"I think we should take serious note of the concerns expressed by captains of >industry and business." *** I see ! But decades of entreaties from VOTERS, ordinary people, did not really matter, did it? Long live Desi-demokrasy! ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] From ToI?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/There-is-governance-and-ethical-deficit-admits-Chidambaram/articleshow/7479866.cms There is governance and ethical deficit, admits Chidambaram, TNN, Feb 12, 2011, 04.17am IST, Article, Comments (12), Tags:Wall Street Journal|P Chidambaram|Manmohan Singh, NEW DELHI: There is a governance and ethical deficit that the Manmohan Singh government needs to take serious note of, home minister P Chidambaram has said while referring to concerns raised recently by business and industry leaders. , In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, the home minister said, "I think we should take serious note of the concerns expressed by captains of industry and business. There is indeed a governance deficit in some areas and perhaps there is also an ethical deficit." , Chidambaram underlined that the malaise is not unique to the UPA coalition. But his candid remarks come in the backdrop of the government's bid to contain the negative political fallout of scams ranging from the Commonwealth Games fiddle to telecom graft cases. , In mid-January, industrialists and former judges wrote an "open letter" to all political leaders speaking of "widespread governance deficit in almost every sphere of national life". The home minister seemed to be taking a cue from the letter. , "We have from time to time tried to put in systems to meet the challenges of these deficits. But it is obvious the systems put in place are not entirely adequate and therefore any suggestion to improve the systems should be taken into account seriously," he was quoted as saying to WSJ by PTI., Read more: There is governance and ethical deficit, admits Chidambaram - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/There-is-governance-and-ethical-deficit-admits-Chidambaram/articleshow/7479866.cms#ixzz1Di4a7sKS> >"We have from time to time tried to put in systems to meet the challenges of >these deficits. But it is obvious the systems put in place are not entirely >adequate and therefore any suggestion to improve the systems should be taken >>into account seriously," *** Really? And pray, why so? >"I think we should take serious note of the concerns expressed by captains of >industry and business." *** I see ! But decades of entreaties from VOTERS, ordinary people, did not really matter, did it? Long live Desi-demokrasy! ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Ranjan Gogoi new CJ of Punjab, Haryana HC (The Assam Tribune , 12.02.2011)
O'Deka: Since when have Gogois been Bodo? O'm On Feb 11, 2011, at 7:55 PM, Dilip Deka wrote: > This is the kind of news we all want to hear, good for Assam and good for > India, also good for the minorities and the majority in India. > You get my drift.? > I am sure Ranjan Gogoi is an exceptional candidate for the position. But the > news should motivate other Bodos to work towards positions like his. > Don't you think it is achievable? > Dilip Deka > == > > > > From: Buljit Buragohain > To: assam@assamnet.org; assamonl...@yahoogroups.com; > friendsofassa...@yahoogroups.com; northeastin...@yahoogroups.com; > silc...@yahoogroups.com; axomiya_stude...@yahoogroups.com > Cc: > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:11 PM > Subject: [Assam] Ranjan Gogoi new CJ of Punjab, Haryana HC (The Assam Tribune > , 12.02.2011) > > Ranjan Gogoi new CJ of Punjab, Haryana HC > Law Reporter > > GUWAHATI, Feb 11 – Justice Ranjan Gogoi, a former Judge of the Gauhati High > Court and a present judge of the Punjab and Haryana High Court, has been > appointed Chief Justice of the Punjab and Haryana High Court, said a > notification issued by the Union Ministry of Law and Justice today. Gogoi > will be sworn in tomorrow. > Born to Keshab Chandra Gogoi, the former Chief Minister of Assam and Shanti > Gogoi, the new Chief Justice was a brilliant student of St. Stephen’s College > where he majored in History. > > (The Assam Tribune ,12.02.2011) > > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Ranjan Gogoi new CJ of Punjab, Haryana HC (The Assam Tribune , 12.02.2011)
This is the kind of news we all want to hear, good for Assam and good for India, also good for the minorities and the majority in India. You get my drift.? I am sure Ranjan Gogoi is an exceptional candidate for the position. But the news should motivate other Bodos to work towards positions like his. Don't you think it is achievable? Dilip Deka == From: Buljit Buragohain To: assam@assamnet.org; assamonl...@yahoogroups.com; friendsofassa...@yahoogroups.com; northeastin...@yahoogroups.com; silc...@yahoogroups.com; axomiya_stude...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:11 PM Subject: [Assam] Ranjan Gogoi new CJ of Punjab, Haryana HC (The Assam Tribune , 12.02.2011) Ranjan Gogoi new CJ of Punjab, Haryana HC Law Reporter GUWAHATI, Feb 11 – Justice Ranjan Gogoi, a former Judge of the Gauhati High Court and a present judge of the Punjab and Haryana High Court, has been appointed Chief Justice of the Punjab and Haryana High Court, said a notification issued by the Union Ministry of Law and Justice today. Gogoi will be sworn in tomorrow. Born to Keshab Chandra Gogoi, the former Chief Minister of Assam and Shanti Gogoi, the new Chief Justice was a brilliant student of St. Stephen’s College where he majored in History. (The Assam Tribune ,12.02.2011) ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] Ranjan Gogoi new CJ of Punjab, Haryana HC (The Assam Tribune , 12.02.2011)
Ranjan Gogoi new CJ of Punjab, Haryana HC Law Reporter GUWAHATI, Feb 11 – Justice Ranjan Gogoi, a former Judge of the Gauhati High Court and a present judge of the Punjab and Haryana High Court, has been appointed Chief Justice of the Punjab and Haryana High Court, said a notification issued by the Union Ministry of Law and Justice today. Gogoi will be sworn in tomorrow. Born to Keshab Chandra Gogoi, the former Chief Minister of Assam and Shanti Gogoi, the new Chief Justice was a brilliant student of St. Stephen’s College where he majored in History. (The Assam Tribune ,12.02.2011) ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Kokrajhar Medical College foundation laid The Assam Tribune(12.02.2011)
This is great. Glad to learn about this (4th only?) medical college in Assam. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -Original Message- From: Buljit Buragohain Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 23:55:44 To: ; ; ; ; ; ; Subject: [Assam] Kokrajhar Medical College foundation laid The Assam Tribune (12.02.2011) Kokrajhar Medical College foundation laid Correspondent KOKRAJHAR, Feb 11 - As per the clause of the historic Bodo Accord - 2003, the foundation stone for the Kokrajhar Medical College was laid formally on February 9 at Bodofa Nagar in Kokrajhar along with the Kokrajhar Nursing College and Udalguri Engineering College by the State Health Minister Dr Himanta Biswa Sarma. Speaking on the occasion, Sarma said that a long-standing demand of Bodo people has come into reality for which it is a historic moment for this area and the State of Assam. He said that only the medical colleges in Dibrugarh, Guwahati and Silchar could not serve the purpose of the requirement of the State for medical practitioners and so the medical colleges at Barpeta, Jorhat and Tezpur are also getting needy, while two other medical colleges - one at Diphu and another at Kokrajhar have been planned by this Government. He also assured that the Kokrajhar Medical College will be constructed at a cost of Rs 200 crore, and will be functional within a period of three years. This will create job opportunities for 1200 local youths of this region. He also said one IIM and one Agricultural University is also in the anvil in this area. At the same time he said to enhance better connectivity, the process is on to set up one airport at Kokrajhar. Hagrama Mohilary, chief of the BTC, said that a series of developmental activities have been planned for this area for which the people have to assure a peaceful environment. He also praised Tarun Gogoi for his cooperation in the execution of developmental projects in BTC area. He also claimed that the Cong-BPF coalition will continue. State Transport Minister Chandan Brahma in his welcome speech bestowed confidence on the leadership of Mohilary and said that quality education must proceed with quality institutions and infrastructure for the development of human resource in the area. It may be mentioned here that Chief Minister Tarun Gogoi was to attend as chief guest, but he had to return back due to bad weather as his helicopter could not land. The Assam Tribune (12.02.2011). ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] Kokrajhar Medical College foundation laid The Assam Tribune (12.02.2011)
Kokrajhar Medical College foundation laid Correspondent KOKRAJHAR, Feb 11 – As per the clause of the historic Bodo Accord - 2003, the foundation stone for the Kokrajhar Medical College was laid formally on February 9 at Bodofa Nagar in Kokrajhar along with the Kokrajhar Nursing College and Udalguri Engineering College by the State Health Minister Dr Himanta Biswa Sarma. Speaking on the occasion, Sarma said that a long-standing demand of Bodo people has come into reality for which it is a historic moment for this area and the State of Assam. He said that only the medical colleges in Dibrugarh, Guwahati and Silchar could not serve the purpose of the requirement of the State for medical practitioners and so the medical colleges at Barpeta, Jorhat and Tezpur are also getting needy, while two other medical colleges – one at Diphu and another at Kokrajhar have been planned by this Government. He also assured that the Kokrajhar Medical College will be constructed at a cost of Rs 200 crore, and will be functional within a period of three years. This will create job opportunities for 1200 local youths of this region. He also said one IIM and one Agricultural University is also in the anvil in this area. At the same time he said to enhance better connectivity, the process is on to set up one airport at Kokrajhar. Hagrama Mohilary, chief of the BTC, said that a series of developmental activities have been planned for this area for which the people have to assure a peaceful environment. He also praised Tarun Gogoi for his cooperation in the execution of developmental projects in BTC area. He also claimed that the Cong-BPF coalition will continue. State Transport Minister Chandan Brahma in his welcome speech bestowed confidence on the leadership of Mohilary and said that quality education must proceed with quality institutions and infrastructure for the development of human resource in the area. It may be mentioned here that Chief Minister Tarun Gogoi was to attend as chief guest, but he had to return back due to bad weather as his helicopter could not land. The Assam Tribune (12.02.2011). ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Secularism
> It's not an excuse, it's just that India has a lot more challenges, > languages, people, customs & religions. > No other country can boast of so much diversity. It is NOT a nation, that is why! It masy claim to kingdom come to be one. But the truth is different, historically and even today. I was impressed to all heck when the Egyptian military stood down and refused to shoot at its own people. I remember seeing Attenborough's Gandhi and Jaliyanwallabagh. And much later, in our life-times came the Sikh pogroms and Godhra and countless so many others. On Feb 11, 2011, at 4:58 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> B: Those who pioneered it, did have to experiment with it, and thus it took > time. What is India's excuse? > > It's not an excuse, it's just that India has a lot more challenges, > languages, people, customs & religions. > No other country can boast of so much diversity. > > --Ram > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 4:45 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >> The older and younger argument, as a means for defending the failures and >> aberrations, is fallacious, because: >> >> A: It is not that India is having to INVENT what is right. They already >> know it and wave it around. Except that it >> is only the wrappings. >> >> B: Those who pioneered it, did have to experiment with it, and thus it took >> time. What is India's excuse? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Assam wrote: >> >>> C'da, >>> I agree. In fact, I'll go a bit further: >>> The strength of a true Democracy lies in it's ability to protect and >> uphold the rights of it's weakest minorities. Once that's done, it can go >> ahead with the next rung, and so on. >>> Having said that, I think democracies go through phases & challenges. >> Even advanced democracies (UK) find it difficult to meet those challenges. >> India is only 6 decades old. Comparatively, there are glaring lapses in this >> experiment, even in the US. >>> >>> --Ram >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 3:19 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >>> > To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or > caste. *** So does Democracy. But in a true democracy there ARE limits to >> majority power. That is why in an enlightened pluralistic society, majority >> will must not be the only thing that rules. On Feb 11, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > C'da, > > If I'm not mistaken, a short prayer is often done in office Christmas > parties. Don't know about the WH Christmas tree. > > The US $ bills also have "In God we trust". Is that secular? > > One may argue that it doesn't specifically refer to the Christian God, >> but > what about them American atheists? Is it 'secular' to them? > > The Supreme Court (as well as all US courts, Federal or state) always >> swear > on the Bible. > In India they swear on the Bhagavad Geeta. > > Not sure why people are required to take an oath to tell the truth. >> Wouldn't > they, even if they didn't swear? > It is as if people by default will lie, unless they swear upon some >> holy > text. > >> Would they let the Muslims perform a similar service ? Or would they >> have > let a Dalit perform such a Puja? > > Probably not. And nor will the GOI pay a Hindu to go on trip to Mecca >> (if he > so desired). > > To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or > caste. > > --Ram > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Chan Mahanta >> wrote: > >>> The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and >> could >>> be termed 'cultural'. >> >> >> That is a real strtch! Diwali lighting maybe. But not >> performing >> Pujas., >> which will be same as holding a church service. Would they let the >> Muslims >> perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform >> such a >> Puja? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> KC, >>> >>> Even in Texas, there are court buildings with the 10 Commandments. >>> >>> The greater issue is that media channels like Fox or any number of >> the >>> conservative talk shows, and even senators & congressmen/women are >> regularly >>> on the media spewing one form hatred (or prejudice) or another. And >> these >>> folks are supposedly the intellectuals of the country. >>> >>> Most will skillfully maneuver themselves just short of existing laws >> (or >>> societal principles). >>> >>> The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and >> could >>> be termed 'cultural'. >>> >>> --Ram da >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Krishn
Re: [Assam] Secularism
>B: Those who pioneered it, did have to experiment with it, and thus it took time. What is India's excuse? It's not an excuse, it's just that India has a lot more challenges, languages, people, customs & religions. No other country can boast of so much diversity. --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 4:45 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > The older and younger argument, as a means for defending the failures and > aberrations, is fallacious, because: > > A: It is not that India is having to INVENT what is right. They already > know it and wave it around. Except that it > is only the wrappings. > > B: Those who pioneered it, did have to experiment with it, and thus it took > time. What is India's excuse? > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Assam wrote: > > > C'da, > > I agree. In fact, I'll go a bit further: > > The strength of a true Democracy lies in it's ability to protect and > uphold the rights of it's weakest minorities. Once that's done, it can go > ahead with the next rung, and so on. > > Having said that, I think democracies go through phases & challenges. > Even advanced democracies (UK) find it difficult to meet those challenges. > India is only 6 decades old. Comparatively, there are glaring lapses in this > experiment, even in the US. > > > > --Ram > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 3:19 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > > > >>> To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or > >>> caste. > >> > >> *** So does Democracy. But in a true democracy there ARE limits to > majority > >> power. That is why in an enlightened pluralistic society, majority > will must not > >> be the only thing that rules. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >> > >>> C'da, > >>> > >>> If I'm not mistaken, a short prayer is often done in office Christmas > >>> parties. Don't know about the WH Christmas tree. > >>> > >>> The US $ bills also have "In God we trust". Is that secular? > >>> > >>> One may argue that it doesn't specifically refer to the Christian God, > but > >>> what about them American atheists? Is it 'secular' to them? > >>> > >>> The Supreme Court (as well as all US courts, Federal or state) always > swear > >>> on the Bible. > >>> In India they swear on the Bhagavad Geeta. > >>> > >>> Not sure why people are required to take an oath to tell the truth. > Wouldn't > >>> they, even if they didn't swear? > >>> It is as if people by default will lie, unless they swear upon some > holy > >>> text. > >>> > Would they let the Muslims perform a similar service ? Or would they > have > >>> let a Dalit perform such a Puja? > >>> > >>> Probably not. And nor will the GOI pay a Hindu to go on trip to Mecca > (if he > >>> so desired). > >>> > >>> To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or > >>> caste. > >>> > >>> --Ram > >>> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Chan Mahanta > wrote: > >>> > > The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and > could > > be termed 'cultural'. > > > That is a real strtch! Diwali lighting maybe. But not > performing > Pujas., > which will be same as holding a church service. Would they let the > Muslims > perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform > such a > Puja? > > > > > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > KC, > > > > Even in Texas, there are court buildings with the 10 Commandments. > > > > The greater issue is that media channels like Fox or any number of > the > > conservative talk shows, and even senators & congressmen/women are > regularly > > on the media spewing one form hatred (or prejudice) or another. And > these > > folks are supposedly the intellectuals of the country. > > > > Most will skillfully maneuver themselves just short of existing laws > (or > > societal principles). > > > > The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and > could > > be termed 'cultural'. > > > > --Ram da > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Krishnendu Chakraborty < > > krish_...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> Here is from wiki -- > >> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Early_prayer.2FTen_Commandments_controversy > >> "The practice of opening court sessions with prayer, though not > uniform > >> throughout Alabama, continues in state courtrooms today" > >> > >> The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those > PRINCIPLES in > >> reality > >> ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. > >> > >> --- I thought you are one of those who believe "in those PRINCIPLES > in > >> reality" but strange I never saw you fighting back Obama's > lighting > the > >> CHRISTMAS tree or Supreme Court (a
Re: [Assam] Secularism
The older and younger argument, as a means for defending the failures and aberrations, is fallacious, because: A: It is not that India is having to INVENT what is right. They already know it and wave it around. Except that it is only the wrappings. B: Those who pioneered it, did have to experiment with it, and thus it took time. What is India's excuse? On Feb 11, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Assam wrote: > C'da, > I agree. In fact, I'll go a bit further: > The strength of a true Democracy lies in it's ability to protect and uphold > the rights of it's weakest minorities. Once that's done, it can go ahead with > the next rung, and so on. > Having said that, I think democracies go through phases & challenges. Even > advanced democracies (UK) find it difficult to meet those challenges. India > is only 6 decades old. Comparatively, there are glaring lapses in this > experiment, even in the US. > > --Ram > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 3:19 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >>> To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or >>> caste. >> >> *** So does Democracy. But in a true democracy there ARE limits to majority >> power. That is why in an enlightened pluralistic society, majority will >> must not >> be the only thing that rules. >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> C'da, >>> >>> If I'm not mistaken, a short prayer is often done in office Christmas >>> parties. Don't know about the WH Christmas tree. >>> >>> The US $ bills also have "In God we trust". Is that secular? >>> >>> One may argue that it doesn't specifically refer to the Christian God, but >>> what about them American atheists? Is it 'secular' to them? >>> >>> The Supreme Court (as well as all US courts, Federal or state) always swear >>> on the Bible. >>> In India they swear on the Bhagavad Geeta. >>> >>> Not sure why people are required to take an oath to tell the truth. Wouldn't >>> they, even if they didn't swear? >>> It is as if people by default will lie, unless they swear upon some holy >>> text. >>> Would they let the Muslims perform a similar service ? Or would they have >>> let a Dalit perform such a Puja? >>> >>> Probably not. And nor will the GOI pay a Hindu to go on trip to Mecca (if he >>> so desired). >>> >>> To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or >>> caste. >>> >>> --Ram >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >>> > The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and could > be termed 'cultural'. That is a real strtch! Diwali lighting maybe. But not performing Pujas., which will be same as holding a church service. Would they let the Muslims perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform such a Puja? On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > KC, > > Even in Texas, there are court buildings with the 10 Commandments. > > The greater issue is that media channels like Fox or any number of the > conservative talk shows, and even senators & congressmen/women are regularly > on the media spewing one form hatred (or prejudice) or another. And these > folks are supposedly the intellectuals of the country. > > Most will skillfully maneuver themselves just short of existing laws (or > societal principles). > > The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and could > be termed 'cultural'. > > --Ram da > > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Krishnendu Chakraborty < > krish_...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Here is from wiki -- >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Early_prayer.2FTen_Commandments_controversy >> "The practice of opening court sessions with prayer, though not uniform >> throughout Alabama, continues in state courtrooms today" >> >> The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in >> reality >> ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. >> >> --- I thought you are one of those who believe "in those PRINCIPLES in >> reality" but strange I never saw you fighting back Obama's lighting the >> CHRISTMAS tree or Supreme Court (and numerous other US Govt. offices) >> decorated with CHRISTMAS tree. >> >> May be I was wrong and you are just one who wear them on their sleeves to >> look good :) >> >> >> BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to decorate a Christmas tree ? >> >> Tough questions ... I understand. Don't bother to even attempt to reply. >> >> * >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >>> Well, C'da >>> >>> I don't think they should
Re: [Assam] Secularism
C'da, I agree. In fact, I'll go a bit further: The strength of a true Democracy lies in it's ability to protect and uphold the rights of it's weakest minorities. Once that's done, it can go ahead with the next rung, and so on. Having said that, I think democracies go through phases & challenges. Even advanced democracies (UK) find it difficult to meet those challenges. India is only 6 decades old. Comparatively, there are glaring lapses in this experiment, even in the US. --Ram Sent from my iPhone On Feb 11, 2011, at 3:19 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >> To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or >> caste. > > *** So does Democracy. But in a true democracy there ARE limits to majority > power. That is why in an enlightened pluralistic society, majority will > must not > be the only thing that rules. > > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >> C'da, >> >> If I'm not mistaken, a short prayer is often done in office Christmas >> parties. Don't know about the WH Christmas tree. >> >> The US $ bills also have "In God we trust". Is that secular? >> >> One may argue that it doesn't specifically refer to the Christian God, but >> what about them American atheists? Is it 'secular' to them? >> >> The Supreme Court (as well as all US courts, Federal or state) always swear >> on the Bible. >> In India they swear on the Bhagavad Geeta. >> >> Not sure why people are required to take an oath to tell the truth. Wouldn't >> they, even if they didn't swear? >> It is as if people by default will lie, unless they swear upon some holy >> text. >> >>> Would they let the Muslims perform a similar service ? Or would they have >> let a Dalit perform such a Puja? >> >> Probably not. And nor will the GOI pay a Hindu to go on trip to Mecca (if he >> so desired). >> >> To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or >> caste. >> >> --Ram >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >> The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and could be termed 'cultural'. >>> >>> >>> That is a real strtch! Diwali lighting maybe. But not performing >>> Pujas., >>> which will be same as holding a church service. Would they let the Muslims >>> perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform such a >>> Puja? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >>> KC, Even in Texas, there are court buildings with the 10 Commandments. The greater issue is that media channels like Fox or any number of the conservative talk shows, and even senators & congressmen/women are >>> regularly on the media spewing one form hatred (or prejudice) or another. And these folks are supposedly the intellectuals of the country. Most will skillfully maneuver themselves just short of existing laws (or societal principles). The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and >>> could be termed 'cultural'. --Ram da On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Krishnendu Chakraborty < krish_...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Here is from wiki -- > >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Early_prayer.2FTen_Commandments_controversy > "The practice of opening court sessions with prayer, though not uniform > throughout Alabama, continues in state courtrooms today" > > The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in > reality > ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. > > --- I thought you are one of those who believe "in those PRINCIPLES in > reality" but strange I never saw you fighting back Obama's lighting >>> the > CHRISTMAS tree or Supreme Court (and numerous other US Govt. offices) > decorated with CHRISTMAS tree. > > May be I was wrong and you are just one who wear them on their sleeves >>> to > look good :) > > > BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to decorate a Christmas tree ? > > Tough questions ... I understand. Don't bother to even attempt to >>> reply. > > * > On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> Well, C'da >> >> I don't think they should be taken lying down. People do protest. And >> sometimes those protests work. But, how on earth are you going to >>> change >> belief systems & prejudices that are ages old. > > That has to come from the intellectuals from the ranks of the > adherents of those faiths. > If it is absent, it demonstrates the vacuity of their beliefs. > >> And unfortunately, you don't have go all the way to India to find > examples. >> You can pretty much find some great examples in this country - the > bastion >> of secular/
[Assam] From Outlook India
http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?711615 No Government Wants a Strong Judiciary: SC "No government wants strong judiciary," was how the Supreme Court today expressed its exasperation over the low budgetary allocation to the judiciary. A bench of Justices G S Singhvi and A K Ganguly said less than one per cent of the budget is allotted to the judiciary which is facing a huge infrastructural problem and shortage of manpower. "No government wants strong judiciary. It is only on the paper. Look at the budgetary allocation. It is less than one per cent," the bench remarked while pointing out that the judiciary is overloaded and a large number of courts need to be set up across the country for speedy justice delivery. Pointing out the infrastructural problem and growing vacancies in the judiciary, the court said "it is a very very difficult situation. If by chance the government does it (setting up more courts), then we have difficulty in getting competent people." The court's remarks came while hearing a petition filed by former Samajwadi Party leader Amar Singh on phone-tapping case. It expressed its displeasure over the tardy of progress in the trial of the case. The bench, after going through the records of the case and the number of cases pending before the Chief Metropolitian Magistrate, found that the judge was handling around 1500 cases and delay was because of frequent adjournments. "Unless we have sufficient number of courts, such a situation would prevail. Four years would be taken for hearing on charges and further four years in concluding the trial. It should have been done in three months. These adjournments have become cancer of the entire institution," the court said. > These adjournments have become cancer of the entire institution," the court > said. *** Why is it that India cannot change what does not work? ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Secularism
>To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or >caste. *** So does Democracy. But in a true democracy there ARE limits to majority power. That is why in an enlightened pluralistic society, majority will must not be the only thing that rules. On Feb 11, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > C'da, > > If I'm not mistaken, a short prayer is often done in office Christmas > parties. Don't know about the WH Christmas tree. > > The US $ bills also have "In God we trust". Is that secular? > > One may argue that it doesn't specifically refer to the Christian God, but > what about them American atheists? Is it 'secular' to them? > > The Supreme Court (as well as all US courts, Federal or state) always swear > on the Bible. > In India they swear on the Bhagavad Geeta. > > Not sure why people are required to take an oath to tell the truth. Wouldn't > they, even if they didn't swear? > It is as if people by default will lie, unless they swear upon some holy > text. > >> Would they let the Muslims perform a similar service ? Or would they have > let a Dalit perform such a Puja? > > Probably not. And nor will the GOI pay a Hindu to go on trip to Mecca (if he > so desired). > > To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or > caste. > > --Ram > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >>> The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and could >>> be termed 'cultural'. >> >> >> That is a real strtch! Diwali lighting maybe. But not performing >> Pujas., >> which will be same as holding a church service. Would they let the Muslims >> perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform such a >> Puja? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> KC, >>> >>> Even in Texas, there are court buildings with the 10 Commandments. >>> >>> The greater issue is that media channels like Fox or any number of the >>> conservative talk shows, and even senators & congressmen/women are >> regularly >>> on the media spewing one form hatred (or prejudice) or another. And these >>> folks are supposedly the intellectuals of the country. >>> >>> Most will skillfully maneuver themselves just short of existing laws (or >>> societal principles). >>> >>> The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and >> could >>> be termed 'cultural'. >>> >>> --Ram da >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Krishnendu Chakraborty < >>> krish_...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> Here is from wiki -- >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Early_prayer.2FTen_Commandments_controversy "The practice of opening court sessions with prayer, though not uniform throughout Alabama, continues in state courtrooms today" The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in reality ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. --- I thought you are one of those who believe "in those PRINCIPLES in reality" but strange I never saw you fighting back Obama's lighting >> the CHRISTMAS tree or Supreme Court (and numerous other US Govt. offices) decorated with CHRISTMAS tree. May be I was wrong and you are just one who wear them on their sleeves >> to look good :) BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to decorate a Christmas tree ? Tough questions ... I understand. Don't bother to even attempt to >> reply. * On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > Well, C'da > > I don't think they should be taken lying down. People do protest. And > sometimes those protests work. But, how on earth are you going to >> change > belief systems & prejudices that are ages old. That has to come from the intellectuals from the ranks of the adherents of those faiths. If it is absent, it demonstrates the vacuity of their beliefs. > And unfortunately, you don't have go all the way to India to find examples. > You can pretty much find some great examples in this country - the bastion > of secular/democratic principles The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in reality ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. Remember the TEN Commandments Statue in the Alabama Supreme Court Building? You know where they are >> now, don't you :-)? > > --Ram > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >> *** So, should that therefore be accepted, taken lying down :-)? >> >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while >>> practising religio
[Assam] Secularism
There are more than that . What about the Christmas Carols in Public Schools ? Will those be brushed aside as just "songs" ? Ram-da, In India, they allow Gita, Bible or Koran in court ... probably a tad better than Amerikan secularism. >Would they let the Muslims > perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform such a > Puja? > So what are we trying to come up with --- that Secularism is providing equal treatment to all religion OR keeping the state separate from religion ? coming to IF a Muslim or a Christian will be allowed to perform such a service , Why not ? In government offices muslims are allowed official breaks for Namaz. In US, the Presidential candidate tries hard to prove that he is a Christian , in India a Sikh becomes the Prime Minister . ** C'da, If I'm not mistaken, a short prayer is often done in office Christmas parties. Don't know about the WH Christmas tree. The US $ bills also have "In God we trust". Is that secular? One may argue that it doesn't specifically refer to the Christian God, but what about them American atheists? Is it 'secular' to them? The Supreme Court (as well as all US courts, Federal or state) always swear on the Bible. In India they swear on the Bhagavad Geeta. Not sure why people are required to take an oath to tell the truth. Wouldn't they, even if they didn't swear? It is as if people by default will lie, unless they swear upon some holy text. >Would they let the Muslims perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform such a Puja? Probably not. And nor will the GOI pay a Hindu to go on trip to Mecca (if he so desired). To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or caste. --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and could > >be termed 'cultural'. > > > That is a real strtch! Diwali lighting maybe. But not performing > Pujas., > which will be same as holding a church service. Would they let the Muslims > perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform such a > Puja? > > > > > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > KC, > > > > Even in Texas, there are court buildings with the 10 Commandments. > > > > The greater issue is that media channels like Fox or any number of the > > conservative talk shows, and even senators & congressmen/women are > regularly > > on the media spewing one form hatred (or prejudice) or another. And these > > folks are supposedly the intellectuals of the country. > > > > Most will skillfully maneuver themselves just short of existing laws (or > > societal principles). > > > > The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and > could > > be termed 'cultural'. > > > > --Ram da > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Krishnendu Chakraborty < > > krish_gau at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> Here is from wiki -- > >> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Early_prayer.2FTen_Commandments_controversy > >> "The practice of opening court sessions with prayer, though not uniform > >> throughout Alabama, continues in state courtrooms today" > >> > >> The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in > >> reality > >> ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. > >> > >> --- I thought you are one of those who believe "in those PRINCIPLES in > >> reality" but strange I never saw you fighting back Obama's lighting > the > >> CHRISTMAS tree or Supreme Court (and numerous other US Govt. offices) > >> decorated with CHRISTMAS tree. > >> > >> May be I was wrong and you are just one who wear them on their sleeves > to > >> look good :) > >> > >> > >> BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to decorate a Christmas tree ? > >> > >> Tough questions ... I understand. Don't bother to even attempt to > reply. > >> > >> * > >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >>> Well, C'da > >>> > >>> I don't think they should be taken lying down. People do protest. And > >>> sometimes those protests work. But, how on earth are you going to > change > >>> belief systems & prejudices that are ages old. > >> > >> That has to come from the intellectuals from the ranks of the > >> adherents of those faiths. > >> If it is absent, it demonstrates the vacuity of their beliefs. > >> > >>> And unfortunately, you don't have go all the way to India to find > >> examples. > >>> You can pretty much find some great examples in this country - the > >> bastion > >>> of secular/democratic principles > >> > >> The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in > >> reality > >> ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. Remember > >> the TEN Commandments > >> Statue in the Alabama Supreme Court Building? You know
Re: [Assam] Secularism
C'da, If I'm not mistaken, a short prayer is often done in office Christmas parties. Don't know about the WH Christmas tree. The US $ bills also have "In God we trust". Is that secular? One may argue that it doesn't specifically refer to the Christian God, but what about them American atheists? Is it 'secular' to them? The Supreme Court (as well as all US courts, Federal or state) always swear on the Bible. In India they swear on the Bhagavad Geeta. Not sure why people are required to take an oath to tell the truth. Wouldn't they, even if they didn't swear? It is as if people by default will lie, unless they swear upon some holy text. >Would they let the Muslims perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform such a Puja? Probably not. And nor will the GOI pay a Hindu to go on trip to Mecca (if he so desired). To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or caste. --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and could > >be termed 'cultural'. > > > That is a real strtch! Diwali lighting maybe. But not performing > Pujas., > which will be same as holding a church service. Would they let the Muslims > perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform such a > Puja? > > > > > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > KC, > > > > Even in Texas, there are court buildings with the 10 Commandments. > > > > The greater issue is that media channels like Fox or any number of the > > conservative talk shows, and even senators & congressmen/women are > regularly > > on the media spewing one form hatred (or prejudice) or another. And these > > folks are supposedly the intellectuals of the country. > > > > Most will skillfully maneuver themselves just short of existing laws (or > > societal principles). > > > > The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and > could > > be termed 'cultural'. > > > > --Ram da > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Krishnendu Chakraborty < > > krish_...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> Here is from wiki -- > >> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Early_prayer.2FTen_Commandments_controversy > >> "The practice of opening court sessions with prayer, though not uniform > >> throughout Alabama, continues in state courtrooms today" > >> > >> The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in > >> reality > >> ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. > >> > >> --- I thought you are one of those who believe "in those PRINCIPLES in > >> reality" but strange I never saw you fighting back Obama's lighting > the > >> CHRISTMAS tree or Supreme Court (and numerous other US Govt. offices) > >> decorated with CHRISTMAS tree. > >> > >> May be I was wrong and you are just one who wear them on their sleeves > to > >> look good :) > >> > >> > >> BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to decorate a Christmas tree ? > >> > >> Tough questions ... I understand. Don't bother to even attempt to > reply. > >> > >> * > >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >>> Well, C'da > >>> > >>> I don't think they should be taken lying down. People do protest. And > >>> sometimes those protests work. But, how on earth are you going to > change > >>> belief systems & prejudices that are ages old. > >> > >> That has to come from the intellectuals from the ranks of the > >> adherents of those faiths. > >> If it is absent, it demonstrates the vacuity of their beliefs. > >> > >>> And unfortunately, you don't have go all the way to India to find > >> examples. > >>> You can pretty much find some great examples in this country - the > >> bastion > >>> of secular/democratic principles > >> > >> The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in > >> reality > >> ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. Remember > >> the TEN Commandments > >> Statue in the Alabama Supreme Court Building? You know where they are > now, > >> don't you :-)? > >> > >> > >> > >>> > >>> --Ram > >>> > >>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Chan Mahanta > >> wrote: > >>> > *** So, should that therefore be accepted, taken lying down :-)? > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > >> What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while > > practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. > > > > C'da, > > > > While this sounds nice, it is really Utopian. I don't believe there > is > >> a > > single country where religious hegemony does not exist in some for or > >> the > > other (of course, I am talking about democracies). > > > > And in democracies, it's not just the problems of religious hegemony, > don't > > forget to add language, state, race, caste & color into
Re: [Assam] Secularism
>The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and could >be termed 'cultural'. That is a real strtch! Diwali lighting maybe. But not performing Pujas., which will be same as holding a church service. Would they let the Muslims perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform such a Puja? On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > KC, > > Even in Texas, there are court buildings with the 10 Commandments. > > The greater issue is that media channels like Fox or any number of the > conservative talk shows, and even senators & congressmen/women are regularly > on the media spewing one form hatred (or prejudice) or another. And these > folks are supposedly the intellectuals of the country. > > Most will skillfully maneuver themselves just short of existing laws (or > societal principles). > > The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and could > be termed 'cultural'. > > --Ram da > > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Krishnendu Chakraborty < > krish_...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Here is from wiki -- >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Early_prayer.2FTen_Commandments_controversy >> "The practice of opening court sessions with prayer, though not uniform >> throughout Alabama, continues in state courtrooms today" >> >> The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in >> reality >> ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. >> >> --- I thought you are one of those who believe "in those PRINCIPLES in >> reality" but strange I never saw you fighting back Obama's lighting the >> CHRISTMAS tree or Supreme Court (and numerous other US Govt. offices) >> decorated with CHRISTMAS tree. >> >> May be I was wrong and you are just one who wear them on their sleeves to >> look good :) >> >> >> BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to decorate a Christmas tree ? >> >> Tough questions ... I understand. Don't bother to even attempt to reply. >> >> * >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >>> Well, C'da >>> >>> I don't think they should be taken lying down. People do protest. And >>> sometimes those protests work. But, how on earth are you going to change >>> belief systems & prejudices that are ages old. >> >> That has to come from the intellectuals from the ranks of the >> adherents of those faiths. >> If it is absent, it demonstrates the vacuity of their beliefs. >> >>> And unfortunately, you don't have go all the way to India to find >> examples. >>> You can pretty much find some great examples in this country - the >> bastion >>> of secular/democratic principles >> >> The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in >> reality >> ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. Remember >> the TEN Commandments >> Statue in the Alabama Supreme Court Building? You know where they are now, >> don't you :-)? >> >> >> >>> >>> --Ram >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Chan Mahanta >> wrote: >>> *** So, should that therefore be accepted, taken lying down :-)? On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while > practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. > > C'da, > > While this sounds nice, it is really Utopian. I don't believe there is >> a > single country where religious hegemony does not exist in some for or >> the > other (of course, I am talking about democracies). > > And in democracies, it's not just the problems of religious hegemony, don't > forget to add language, state, race, caste & color into the mix. > > ---Ram > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >> *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and civilization. >> >> *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain >> bound >> by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to >> be >> secular on the one hand, while >> practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> Hehe! >>> >>> Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were just >> talking >>> about will be palatable :-) >>> >>> But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all indications, it >> looks >>> like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will have a >>> government chosen by it's people. >>> >>> ---Ram >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta > gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> Now comes the hard part :-) On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangap
Re: [Assam] Secularism
KC, Even in Texas, there are court buildings with the 10 Commandments. The greater issue is that media channels like Fox or any number of the conservative talk shows, and even senators & congressmen/women are regularly on the media spewing one form hatred (or prejudice) or another. And these folks are supposedly the intellectuals of the country. Most will skillfully maneuver themselves just short of existing laws (or societal principles). The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and could be termed 'cultural'. --Ram da On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Krishnendu Chakraborty < krish_...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Here is from wiki -- > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Early_prayer.2FTen_Commandments_controversy > "The practice of opening court sessions with prayer, though not uniform > throughout Alabama, continues in state courtrooms today" > > The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in > reality > ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. > > --- I thought you are one of those who believe "in those PRINCIPLES in > reality" but strange I never saw you fighting back Obama's lighting the > CHRISTMAS tree or Supreme Court (and numerous other US Govt. offices) > decorated with CHRISTMAS tree. > > May be I was wrong and you are just one who wear them on their sleeves to > look good :) > > > BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to decorate a Christmas tree ? > > Tough questions ... I understand. Don't bother to even attempt to reply. > > * > On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > Well, C'da > > > > I don't think they should be taken lying down. People do protest. And > > sometimes those protests work. But, how on earth are you going to change > > belief systems & prejudices that are ages old. > > That has to come from the intellectuals from the ranks of the > adherents of those faiths. > If it is absent, it demonstrates the vacuity of their beliefs. > > > And unfortunately, you don't have go all the way to India to find > examples. > > You can pretty much find some great examples in this country - the > bastion > > of secular/democratic principles > > The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in > reality > ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. Remember > the TEN Commandments > Statue in the Alabama Supreme Court Building? You know where they are now, > don't you :-)? > > > > > > > --Ram > > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Chan Mahanta > wrote: > > > >> *** So, should that therefore be accepted, taken lying down :-)? > >> > >> > >> > >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >> > What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while > >>> practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. > >>> > >>> C'da, > >>> > >>> While this sounds nice, it is really Utopian. I don't believe there is > a > >>> single country where religious hegemony does not exist in some for or > the > >>> other (of course, I am talking about democracies). > >>> > >>> And in democracies, it's not just the problems of religious hegemony, > >> don't > >>> forget to add language, state, race, caste & color into the mix. > >>> > >>> ---Ram > >>> > >>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Chan Mahanta > >> wrote: > >>> > *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and > >> civilization. > > *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain > bound > by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to > be > secular on the one hand, while > practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. > > > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > Hehe! > > > > Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were just > talking > > about will be palatable :-) > > > > But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all indications, it > looks > > like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will have a > > government chosen by it's people. > > > > ---Ram > > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> > >> Now comes the hard part :-) > >> > >> > >> > >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >> > >>> > >> > > >> > http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 > >>> ___ > >>> assam mailing list > >>> assam at assamnet.org > >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> assam mailing list > >> assam at assamnet.org > >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >> >
[Assam] Secularism
Here is from wiki -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Early_prayer.2FTen_Commandments_controversy "The practice of opening court sessions with prayer, though not uniform throughout Alabama, continues in state courtrooms today" The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in reality ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. --- I thought you are one of those who believe "in those PRINCIPLES in reality" but strange I never saw you fighting back Obama's lighting the CHRISTMAS tree or Supreme Court (and numerous other US Govt. offices) decorated with CHRISTMAS tree. May be I was wrong and you are just one who wear them on their sleeves to look good :) BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to decorate a Christmas tree ? Tough questions ... I understand. Don't bother to even attempt to reply. * On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > Well, C'da > > I don't think they should be taken lying down. People do protest. And > sometimes those protests work. But, how on earth are you going to change > belief systems & prejudices that are ages old. That has to come from the intellectuals from the ranks of the adherents of those faiths. If it is absent, it demonstrates the vacuity of their beliefs. > And unfortunately, you don't have go all the way to India to find examples. > You can pretty much find some great examples in this country - the bastion > of secular/democratic principles The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in reality ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. Remember the TEN Commandments Statue in the Alabama Supreme Court Building? You know where they are now, don't you :-)? > > --Ram > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >> *** So, should that therefore be accepted, taken lying down :-)? >> >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while >>> practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. >>> >>> C'da, >>> >>> While this sounds nice, it is really Utopian. I don't believe there is a >>> single country where religious hegemony does not exist in some for or the >>> other (of course, I am talking about democracies). >>> >>> And in democracies, it's not just the problems of religious hegemony, >> don't >>> forget to add language, state, race, caste & color into the mix. >>> >>> ---Ram >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Chan Mahanta >> wrote: >>> *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and >> civilization. *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > Hehe! > > Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were just talking > about will be palatable :-) > > But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all indications, it looks > like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will have a > government chosen by it's people. > > ---Ram > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >> >> Now comes the hard part :-) >> >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> >> >> http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 >>> ___ >>> assam mailing list >>> assam at assamnet.org >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> ___ >> assam mailing list >> assam at assamnet.org >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> > ___ > assam mailing list > assam at assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam at assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>> ___ >>> assam mailing list >>> assam at assamnet.org >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> ___ >> assam mailing list >> assam at assamnet.org >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> > ___ > assam mailing list > assam at assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
On Feb 11, 2011, at 12:15 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > Dilli is the big bad wolf - we all know that. We all expected they would > roll out the red carpets, wine & dine them. *** But then should thinking people place their faith on this animal ? Or was it just a perfunctory disclaimer :-)? > But ain't it a big surprise, that our home-grown varieties would take > Dilli's bait? And poor MM Singh & his aunt will say anything and > everything. > He is no constitutional expert, and is barely a prime minister - don't fall > for what he says. Uh-huh? But we have held these up as the saviors. Where is the disconnect here? Don't trust them. But support them never-the-less? Is this how intellectual integrity works :-)? > Still expecting the sovereignty miracle, oh well! Sovereignty is a tool, a mean to an end. It is not a trophy, its not the END. If India can or is willing to help achieve that END, why now? Why did it take them this long to help achieve those ENDs? Where was it before the people took to arms? Shades of Mubarak perhaps? > Isn't offering no solutions better than than those that were totally > off-kilter? :- *** WHAT was off kilter? We can't just label something off-kilter, if we don't explain what IT is or was that is off-kilter, don't you think? > >> NOW as to declare the Indian Constitution's flexibility to address these > bad folks' grievances? Where was that flexibility before they took to arms? > > Still expecting the sovereignty miracle, oh well! > > All Dilli wants to do is to dole out some cheap sops to these guys, and > bring some stability to the NE - so that it can get another shot at jobs, > development & growth. > >> *** We all know of those who find solace in taunting their opponents when > they have little to offer :-). > > Isn't offering no solutions better than than those that were totally > off-kilter? :-) > > --Ram > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >>> For a moment I thought you might be referring to our newer editions of >>> 'freedom fighters' in the NE. >> >> >> And why are they so bad? If they were so bad, why is Dilli spreading >> the red-carpet >> for them now? They don't need to. The armed revolters were defeated you >> know? >> And why is MMS so generous NOW as to declare the Indian Constitution's >> flexibility >> to address these bad folks' grievances? Where was that flexibility before >> they took to arms? >> >>> And those >>> >>> hard-held principles, well, we all know what happened to those. >> >> >> *** Yes ? Whose "principles" are alluding to :-)? >> >> >>> The more painful part was to see some of our more intelligent colleagues >> who >>> bet their very shirts on these guys. These things happen, and I am not >> the >>> one to rub it in. :-) >> >> >> *** We all know of those who find solace in taunting their opponents when >> they have little to offer :-). >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:43 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> Oh! you are talking about Indian's independence movement. >>> >>> For a moment I thought you might be referring to our newer editions of >>> 'freedom fighters' in the NE. >>> Those guys are now making a beeline to Dilli to strike some great deals. >>> >>> Most of us knew they would be given a red carpet welcome. And those >>> hard-held principles, well, we all know what happened to those. >>> >>> The more painful part was to see some of our more intelligent colleagues >> who >>> bet their very shirts on these guys. These things happen, and I am not >> the >>> one to rub it in. :-) >>> >>> btw: you don't have to call me "Sir' >>> >>> >>> --Ram >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Saugot Chowdhury >> wrote: >>> Sir, if i say that we gained freedom from oppsessive regime only by guns will be true. But our father of nation taught us to be non cooperative towards regime machinery. The whole egypt episode reminds me of those developments. I have nt seen the plight of our forefathers but i have >> seen my brothers struggle in egypt for democracy. Whether name mandela or syu ki., the whole developments are same On 11 Feb 2011 22:42, "Chan Mahanta" wrote: *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and >> civilization. *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > Hehe! > > Now, we will have to see if ... ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>> ___ >>> assam mailing list >>> a
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
SC, Your sentiments are pretty common in Assam. But the bright side is there are many people in Assam & other places who are working hard to make things much better. Unemployment and poverty are two of the big issues. Hopefully, the investment climate will improve drastically and the state can make greater strides. B'deshi immigration is, in my opinion, a problem that no one with any power wants to resolve. --Ram da On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Saugot Chowdhury wrote: > Thik asa apunak sir nokou..you know (well this is my personal opinion, > strictly) i never was in favor of independant assam nor i am now. We > couldnt > use our hard earned democracy and we could nt use asom andolon. Then what > the hell we could do with independant assam. Our people have a name of > "laha > laha" people stil we couldnt figure out who the bangladesis are, still they > work in our backyard pacholi bagisha everyday. I am afraid if assam become > independant today we will be able to see another afghanisthan or NWFP in > pakistan. Ram da i had been to assam five years ago, i dont know what's > happening there but i am sure we assamese people are still illiterate from > the point of view of democratic struggle. > > On 11 Feb 2011 23:13, "Ram Sarangapani" wrote: > > Oh! you are talking about Indian's independence movement. > > For a moment I thought you might be referring to our newer editions of > 'freedom fighters' in the NE. > Those guys are now making a beeline to Dilli to strike some great deals. > > Most of us knew they would be given a red carpet welcome. And those > hard-held principles, well, we all know what happened to those. > > The more painful part was to see some of our more intelligent colleagues > who > bet their very shirts on these guys. These things happen, and I am not the > one to rub it in. :-) > > btw: you don't have to call me "Sir' > > > --Ram > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Saugot Chowdhury > wrote: > > > Sir, if i say that ... > > > ___ > > assam mailing list > > assam@assamnet.org > > http:/... > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
Dilli is the big bad wolf - we all know that. We all expected they would roll out the red carpets, wine & dine them. But ain't it a big surprise, that our home-grown varieties would take Dilli's bait? And poor MM Singh & his aunt will say anything and everything. He is no constitutional expert, and is barely a prime minister - don't fall for what he says. >NOW as to declare the Indian Constitution's flexibility to address these bad folks' grievances? Where was that flexibility before they took to arms? Still expecting the sovereignty miracle, oh well! All Dilli wants to do is to dole out some cheap sops to these guys, and bring some stability to the NE - so that it can get another shot at jobs, development & growth. >*** We all know of those who find solace in taunting their opponents when they have little to offer :-). Isn't offering no solutions better than than those that were totally off-kilter? :-) --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >For a moment I thought you might be referring to our newer editions of > > 'freedom fighters' in the NE. > > > And why are they so bad? If they were so bad, why is Dilli spreading > the red-carpet > for them now? They don't need to. The armed revolters were defeated you > know? > And why is MMS so generous NOW as to declare the Indian Constitution's > flexibility > to address these bad folks' grievances? Where was that flexibility before > they took to arms? > > >And those > > > > hard-held principles, well, we all know what happened to those. > > > *** Yes ? Whose "principles" are alluding to :-)? > > > > The more painful part was to see some of our more intelligent colleagues > who > > bet their very shirts on these guys. These things happen, and I am not > the > > one to rub it in. :-) > > > *** We all know of those who find solace in taunting their opponents when > they have little to offer :-). > > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:43 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > Oh! you are talking about Indian's independence movement. > > > > For a moment I thought you might be referring to our newer editions of > > 'freedom fighters' in the NE. > > Those guys are now making a beeline to Dilli to strike some great deals. > > > > Most of us knew they would be given a red carpet welcome. And those > > hard-held principles, well, we all know what happened to those. > > > > The more painful part was to see some of our more intelligent colleagues > who > > bet their very shirts on these guys. These things happen, and I am not > the > > one to rub it in. :-) > > > > btw: you don't have to call me "Sir' > > > > > > --Ram > > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Saugot Chowdhury > wrote: > > > >> Sir, if i say that we gained freedom from oppsessive regime only by guns > >> will be true. But our father of nation taught us to be non cooperative > >> towards regime machinery. The whole egypt episode reminds me of those > >> developments. I have nt seen the plight of our forefathers but i have > seen > >> my brothers struggle in egypt for democracy. Whether name mandela or syu > >> ki., the whole developments are same > >> > >> On 11 Feb 2011 22:42, "Chan Mahanta" wrote: > >> > >> *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and > civilization. > >> > >> *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound > >> by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to be > >> secular on the one hand, while > >> practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >> > >>> Hehe! > >>> > >>> Now, we will have to see if ... > >> ___ > >> assam mailing list > >> assam@assamnet.org > >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >> > > ___ > > assam mailing list > > assam@assamnet.org > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
Thik asa apunak sir nokou..you know (well this is my personal opinion, strictly) i never was in favor of independant assam nor i am now. We couldnt use our hard earned democracy and we could nt use asom andolon. Then what the hell we could do with independant assam. Our people have a name of "laha laha" people stil we couldnt figure out who the bangladesis are, still they work in our backyard pacholi bagisha everyday. I am afraid if assam become independant today we will be able to see another afghanisthan or NWFP in pakistan. Ram da i had been to assam five years ago, i dont know what's happening there but i am sure we assamese people are still illiterate from the point of view of democratic struggle. On 11 Feb 2011 23:13, "Ram Sarangapani" wrote: Oh! you are talking about Indian's independence movement. For a moment I thought you might be referring to our newer editions of 'freedom fighters' in the NE. Those guys are now making a beeline to Dilli to strike some great deals. Most of us knew they would be given a red carpet welcome. And those hard-held principles, well, we all know what happened to those. The more painful part was to see some of our more intelligent colleagues who bet their very shirts on these guys. These things happen, and I am not the one to rub it in. :-) btw: you don't have to call me "Sir' --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Saugot Chowdhury wrote: > Sir, if i say that ... > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http:/... ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > Well, C'da > > I don't think they should be taken lying down. People do protest. And > sometimes those protests work. But, how on earth are you going to change > belief systems & prejudices that are ages old. That has to come from the intellectuals from the ranks of the adherents of those faiths. If it is absent, it demonstrates the vacuity of their beliefs. > And unfortunately, you don't have go all the way to India to find examples. > You can pretty much find some great examples in this country - the bastion > of secular/democratic principles The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in reality ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. Remember the TEN Commandments Statue in the Alabama Supreme Court Building? You know where they are now, don't you :-)? > > --Ram > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >> *** So, should that therefore be accepted, taken lying down :-)? >> >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while >>> practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. >>> >>> C'da, >>> >>> While this sounds nice, it is really Utopian. I don't believe there is a >>> single country where religious hegemony does not exist in some for or the >>> other (of course, I am talking about democracies). >>> >>> And in democracies, it's not just the problems of religious hegemony, >> don't >>> forget to add language, state, race, caste & color into the mix. >>> >>> ---Ram >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Chan Mahanta >> wrote: >>> *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and >> civilization. *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > Hehe! > > Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were just talking > about will be palatable :-) > > But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all indications, it looks > like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will have a > government chosen by it's people. > > ---Ram > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >> >> Now comes the hard part :-) >> >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> >> >> http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 >>> ___ >>> assam mailing list >>> assam@assamnet.org >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> ___ >> assam mailing list >> assam@assamnet.org >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>> ___ >>> assam mailing list >>> assam@assamnet.org >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> ___ >> assam mailing list >> assam@assamnet.org >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
>For a moment I thought you might be referring to our newer editions of > 'freedom fighters' in the NE. And why are they so bad? If they were so bad, why is Dilli spreading the red-carpet for them now? They don't need to. The armed revolters were defeated you know? And why is MMS so generous NOW as to declare the Indian Constitution's flexibility to address these bad folks' grievances? Where was that flexibility before they took to arms? >And those > > hard-held principles, well, we all know what happened to those. *** Yes ? Whose "principles" are alluding to :-)? > The more painful part was to see some of our more intelligent colleagues who > bet their very shirts on these guys. These things happen, and I am not the > one to rub it in. :-) *** We all know of those who find solace in taunting their opponents when they have little to offer :-). On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:43 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > Oh! you are talking about Indian's independence movement. > > For a moment I thought you might be referring to our newer editions of > 'freedom fighters' in the NE. > Those guys are now making a beeline to Dilli to strike some great deals. > > Most of us knew they would be given a red carpet welcome. And those > hard-held principles, well, we all know what happened to those. > > The more painful part was to see some of our more intelligent colleagues who > bet their very shirts on these guys. These things happen, and I am not the > one to rub it in. :-) > > btw: you don't have to call me "Sir' > > > --Ram > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Saugot Chowdhury wrote: > >> Sir, if i say that we gained freedom from oppsessive regime only by guns >> will be true. But our father of nation taught us to be non cooperative >> towards regime machinery. The whole egypt episode reminds me of those >> developments. I have nt seen the plight of our forefathers but i have seen >> my brothers struggle in egypt for democracy. Whether name mandela or syu >> ki., the whole developments are same >> >> On 11 Feb 2011 22:42, "Chan Mahanta" wrote: >> >> *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and civilization. >> >> *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound >> by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to be >> secular on the one hand, while >> practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> Hehe! >>> >>> Now, we will have to see if ... >> ___ >> assam mailing list >> assam@assamnet.org >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
Well, C'da I don't think they should be taken lying down. People do protest. And sometimes those protests work. But, how on earth are you going to change belief systems & prejudices that are ages old. And unfortunately, you don't have go all the way to India to find examples. You can pretty much find some great examples in this country - the bastion of secular/democratic principles. --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > *** So, should that therefore be accepted, taken lying down :-)? > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > >> What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while > > practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. > > > > C'da, > > > > While this sounds nice, it is really Utopian. I don't believe there is a > > single country where religious hegemony does not exist in some for or the > > other (of course, I am talking about democracies). > > > > And in democracies, it's not just the problems of religious hegemony, > don't > > forget to add language, state, race, caste & color into the mix. > > > > ---Ram > > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Chan Mahanta > wrote: > > > >> *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and > civilization. > >> > >> *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound > >> by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to be > >> secular on the one hand, while > >> practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >> > >>> Hehe! > >>> > >>> Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were just > >> talking > >>> about will be palatable :-) > >>> > >>> But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all indications, it > >> looks > >>> like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will have a > >>> government chosen by it's people. > >>> > >>> ---Ram > >>> > >>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta > >> wrote: > >>> > > Now comes the hard part :-) > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > > > >> > http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 > > ___ > > assam mailing list > > assam@assamnet.org > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > >>> ___ > >>> assam mailing list > >>> assam@assamnet.org > >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> assam mailing list > >> assam@assamnet.org > >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >> > > ___ > > assam mailing list > > assam@assamnet.org > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Secularism in USA and India
*** As long as the ones who can't do it without their worship of the God/s of their choice and as long as they don't do it at the public expense they ought to be free to go do it wherever they wish to. There is NOTHING to prevent them from doing it. But nooo---the Gujarati Hindus HAVE to assert the supremacy of their gods, their religion, over everybody else's, at the public's expense. That is what happened and their high-court asserted it , while waving that 'jhanda' of a 'secular desi demokrasy'. On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:30 AM, Dilip Deka wrote: > > Let's say a group of people associated with the construction of the new > courthouse annex just cannot do without a Bhumipuja but separation of state > and church(or temple) will not allow them to perform the Puja at the site of > the courthouse. So the group goes and performs the Puja at a nearby > temple.Will the blessings from their God/god/goddess still transfer to the > courthouse? :-) :-) > If so, there is the solution.No one can stop the group from feeling good by > performing the Puja at the temple. The temple belongs to the Hindus since > their devotees finance and run it. On the other hand the courthouse belongs > to all - used by all and funded with state (democratic?) money. Will the > Hindu majority accept it? Comments? > Dilip Deka > > --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Chan Mahanta wrote: > > > From: Chan Mahanta > Subject: Re: [Assam] Secularism in USA and India > To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world" > > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 9:48 AM > > >> This act of lighting a lamp and chanting Sanskrit slokas too is not >> considered religious but cultural. > > *** I can understand that, to a point. But to perform Bhumi Puja at the > courthouse site goes far beyond following a cultural > tradition. BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to chant Sanskrit "slokas" and > lighting lamps. Are non-Hindu traditions similarly > followed in such pluralistic societies where there are many religious > traditions ? > >> This definition of secularism has been sanctified by years of prevailing >> usage and case law. > > *** It is an attempt to revise the English language. How can "absence of > religion" be the SAME as "In India, secularism means > equal treatment of all religions." It is, at best a nefarious ploy at > deception, isn't it? > > > > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 9:24 AM, Rajiv Baruah wrote: > >> In USA, secularism means absence of religion. In India, secularism means >> equal treatment of all religions. Thus the multi-faith prayers during >> "state" functions. This definition of secularism has been sanctified by >> years of prevailing usage and case law. There is also the very widespread >> practice of lighting lamps and chanting a few Sanskrit slokas to bless the >> start of many functions. This act of lighting a lamp and chanting Sanskrit >> slokas too is not considered religious but cultural. >> >> Trust this clarifies. >> >> Best regards >> >> Rajiv >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> ___ >> assam mailing list >> assam@assamnet.org >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
Oh! you are talking about Indian's independence movement. For a moment I thought you might be referring to our newer editions of 'freedom fighters' in the NE. Those guys are now making a beeline to Dilli to strike some great deals. Most of us knew they would be given a red carpet welcome. And those hard-held principles, well, we all know what happened to those. The more painful part was to see some of our more intelligent colleagues who bet their very shirts on these guys. These things happen, and I am not the one to rub it in. :-) btw: you don't have to call me "Sir' --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Saugot Chowdhury wrote: > Sir, if i say that we gained freedom from oppsessive regime only by guns > will be true. But our father of nation taught us to be non cooperative > towards regime machinery. The whole egypt episode reminds me of those > developments. I have nt seen the plight of our forefathers but i have seen > my brothers struggle in egypt for democracy. Whether name mandela or syu > ki., the whole developments are same > > On 11 Feb 2011 22:42, "Chan Mahanta" wrote: > > *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and civilization. > > *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound > by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to be > secular on the one hand, while > practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. > > > > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > Hehe! > > > > Now, we will have to see if ... > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Secularism in USA and India
Let's say a group of people associated with the construction of the new courthouse annex just cannot do without a Bhumipuja but separation of state and church(or temple) will not allow them to perform the Puja at the site of the courthouse. So the group goes and performs the Puja at a nearby temple.Will the blessings from their God/god/goddess still transfer to the courthouse? :-) :-) If so, there is the solution.No one can stop the group from feeling good by performing the Puja at the temple. The temple belongs to the Hindus since their devotees finance and run it. On the other hand the courthouse belongs to all - used by all and funded with state (democratic?) money. Will the Hindu majority accept it? Comments? Dilip Deka --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Chan Mahanta wrote: From: Chan Mahanta Subject: Re: [Assam] Secularism in USA and India To: "A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world" Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 9:48 AM > This act of lighting a lamp and chanting Sanskrit slokas too is not > considered religious but cultural. *** I can understand that, to a point. But to perform Bhumi Puja at the courthouse site goes far beyond following a cultural tradition. BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to chant Sanskrit "slokas" and lighting lamps. Are non-Hindu traditions similarly followed in such pluralistic societies where there are many religious traditions ? >This definition of secularism has been sanctified by years of prevailing usage >and case law. *** It is an attempt to revise the English language. How can "absence of religion" be the SAME as "In India, secularism means equal treatment of all religions." It is, at best a nefarious ploy at deception, isn't it? On Feb 11, 2011, at 9:24 AM, Rajiv Baruah wrote: > In USA, secularism means absence of religion. In India, secularism means > equal treatment of all religions. Thus the multi-faith prayers during "state" > functions. This definition of secularism has been sanctified by years of > prevailing usage and case law. There is also the very widespread practice of > lighting lamps and chanting a few Sanskrit slokas to bless the start of many > functions. This act of lighting a lamp and chanting Sanskrit slokas too is > not considered religious but cultural. > > Trust this clarifies. > > Best regards > > Rajiv > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
I am sorry. I was struggling with my touch pad. And plz read the above line "will it be true?" thanx:-) On 11 Feb 2011 22:53, "Saugot Chowdhury" wrote: Sir, if i say that we gained freedom from oppsessive regime only by guns will be true. But our father of nation taught us to be non cooperative towards regime machinery. The whole egypt episode reminds me of those developments. I have nt seen the plight of our forefathers but i have seen my brothers struggle in egypt for democracy. Whether name mandela or syu ki., the whole developments are same > > On 11 Feb 2011 22:42, "Chan Mahanta" wrote: > > *** I think so too. They h... > > > > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > Hehe! > > > Now, we will have to see if ... ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
*** So, should that therefore be accepted, taken lying down :-)? On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while > practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. > > C'da, > > While this sounds nice, it is really Utopian. I don't believe there is a > single country where religious hegemony does not exist in some for or the > other (of course, I am talking about democracies). > > And in democracies, it's not just the problems of religious hegemony, don't > forget to add language, state, race, caste & color into the mix. > > ---Ram > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >> *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and civilization. >> >> *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound >> by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to be >> secular on the one hand, while >> practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> Hehe! >>> >>> Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were just >> talking >>> about will be palatable :-) >>> >>> But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all indications, it >> looks >>> like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will have a >>> government chosen by it's people. >>> >>> ---Ram >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta >> wrote: >>> Now comes the hard part :-) On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >> http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>> ___ >>> assam mailing list >>> assam@assamnet.org >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> ___ >> assam mailing list >> assam@assamnet.org >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
Sir, if i say that we gained freedom from oppsessive regime only by guns will be true. But our father of nation taught us to be non cooperative towards regime machinery. The whole egypt episode reminds me of those developments. I have nt seen the plight of our forefathers but i have seen my brothers struggle in egypt for democracy. Whether name mandela or syu ki., the whole developments are same On 11 Feb 2011 22:42, "Chan Mahanta" wrote: *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and civilization. *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > Hehe! > > Now, we will have to see if ... ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
>What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. C'da, While this sounds nice, it is really Utopian. I don't believe there is a single country where religious hegemony does not exist in some for or the other (of course, I am talking about democracies). And in democracies, it's not just the problems of religious hegemony, don't forget to add language, state, race, caste & color into the mix. ---Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and civilization. > > *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound > by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to be > secular on the one hand, while > practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. > > > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > Hehe! > > > > Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were just > talking > > about will be palatable :-) > > > > But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all indications, it > looks > > like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will have a > > government chosen by it's people. > > > > ---Ram > > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta > wrote: > > > >> > >> Now comes the hard part :-) > >> > >> > >> > >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >> > >>> > >> > http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 > >>> ___ > >>> assam mailing list > >>> assam@assamnet.org > >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> assam mailing list > >> assam@assamnet.org > >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >> > > ___ > > assam mailing list > > assam@assamnet.org > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
I hope Indians will do so very soon! But, it's not about only democracy there. It was all about globalization and American hegemony. The agitations there shows that America is loosing its' grip there in North Africa and Arab World. Sushanta Kar On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:42 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > Now for Indians to rise against the dysfunction of their governance! What > holds them back from demanding > real democracy, free from corruption and the rule of law? > > > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:58 AM, Saugot Chowdhury wrote: > > > This is the begining of new era. They have shown patience and courage, > two > > traits that link our freedom fighters to them. Now i hope winds of change > > will hit other countries in the world under dictatorship like libiya..god > > bless the land of pharoh.. > > > > On 11 Feb 2011 22:21, "Pragyan Tinsukia College" < > pragyan.ts...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > ITS TIME TO DEMOCRATS OF THE WORLD TO CELEBRATE. > > > > Sushanta Kar > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Ram Sarangapani > wrote: > >> http://www.cnn.com/2... > > -- > > > > Sushanta Kar > > Executive Editor , Pragyan > > ** > > Read and Write in PRAGYAN > > Web: http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now > > , > > Blog: http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com/ > > A Quarterly Journal of Academic, Intellectual and Career Pursuit from > > Tinsukia College. > > We believe not on the Bondage of knowledge, But in Its Freedom. > > > > > > ___ > > assam mailing list > > assam@assamnet.org > > http://assamn... > > ___ > > assam mailing list > > assam@assamnet.org > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > -- Sushanta Kar সুশান্ত কর তিনসুকিয়া, আসাম আমার ব্লগগুলি: http://sushantakar40.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkahini.blogspot.com http://ishankonerkotha.blogspot.com আমার সম্পাদিত 'প্রজ্ঞান' http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now "স্বাজাত্যের অহমিকার থেকে মুক্তি দানের শিক্ষাই, আজকের দিনের প্রধান শিক্ষা" রবীন্দ্রনাথ ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
Now for Indians to rise against the dysfunction of their governance! What holds them back from demanding real democracy, free from corruption and the rule of law? On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:58 AM, Saugot Chowdhury wrote: > This is the begining of new era. They have shown patience and courage, two > traits that link our freedom fighters to them. Now i hope winds of change > will hit other countries in the world under dictatorship like libiya..god > bless the land of pharoh.. > > On 11 Feb 2011 22:21, "Pragyan Tinsukia College" > wrote: > > ITS TIME TO DEMOCRATS OF THE WORLD TO CELEBRATE. > > Sushanta Kar > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> http://www.cnn.com/2... > -- > > Sushanta Kar > Executive Editor , Pragyan > ** > Read and Write in PRAGYAN > Web: http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now > , > Blog: http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com/ > A Quarterly Journal of Academic, Intellectual and Career Pursuit from > Tinsukia College. > We believe not on the Bondage of knowledge, But in Its Freedom. > > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamn... > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
*** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and civilization. *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain bound by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > Hehe! > > Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were just talking > about will be palatable :-) > > But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all indications, it looks > like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will have a > government chosen by it's people. > > ---Ram > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >> >> Now comes the hard part :-) >> >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> >> http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 >>> ___ >>> assam mailing list >>> assam@assamnet.org >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> ___ >> assam mailing list >> assam@assamnet.org >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
>They have shown patience and courage, two >traits that link our freedom fighters to them Which ' our freedom fighters' are we talking about? This might be interesting, depending on the answer :-) --Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Saugot Chowdhury wrote: > This is the begining of new era. They have shown patience and courage, two > traits that link our freedom fighters to them. Now i hope winds of change > will hit other countries in the world under dictatorship like libiya..god > bless the land of pharoh.. > > On 11 Feb 2011 22:21, "Pragyan Tinsukia College" > wrote: > > ITS TIME TO DEMOCRATS OF THE WORLD TO CELEBRATE. > > Sushanta Kar > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Ram Sarangapani > wrote: > > http://www.cnn.com/2... > -- > > Sushanta Kar > Executive Editor , Pragyan > ** > Read and Write in PRAGYAN > Web: http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now > , > Blog: http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com/ > A Quarterly Journal of Academic, Intellectual and Career Pursuit from > Tinsukia College. > We believe not on the Bondage of knowledge, But in Its Freedom. > > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamn... > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
Sir, now its an wait and watch game. I am could nt contact my friends in egypt during this whole movement. Now i hope that they will be very happy with this develoqment. Well fear is always there, but they also know and we too that, this is a part with too much uncertainity. Lets hope the best for these freedom seeking people. Thanx On 11 Feb 2011 22:30, "Ram Sarangapani" wrote: Hehe! Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were just talking about will be palatable :-) But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all indications, it looks like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will have a government chosen by it's people. ---Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > > Now comes the hard ... ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
Hehe! Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were just talking about will be palatable :-) But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all indications, it looks like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will have a government chosen by it's people. ---Ram On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > > Now comes the hard part :-) > > > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > > http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 > > ___ > > assam mailing list > > assam@assamnet.org > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
This is the begining of new era. They have shown patience and courage, two traits that link our freedom fighters to them. Now i hope winds of change will hit other countries in the world under dictatorship like libiya..god bless the land of pharoh.. On 11 Feb 2011 22:21, "Pragyan Tinsukia College" wrote: ITS TIME TO DEMOCRATS OF THE WORLD TO CELEBRATE. Sushanta Kar On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > http://www.cnn.com/2... -- Sushanta Kar Executive Editor , Pragyan ** Read and Write in PRAGYAN Web: http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now , Blog: http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com/ A Quarterly Journal of Academic, Intellectual and Career Pursuit from Tinsukia College. We believe not on the Bondage of knowledge, But in Its Freedom. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamn... ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
ITS TIME TO DEMOCRATS OF THE WORLD TO CELEBRATE. Sushanta Kar On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > -- Sushanta Kar Executive Editor , Pragyan ** Read and Write in PRAGYAN Web: http://sites.google.com/site/pragyan06now , Blog: http://pragyan06now.blogspot.com/ A Quarterly Journal of Academic, Intellectual and Career Pursuit from Tinsukia College. We believe not on the Bondage of knowledge, But in Its Freedom. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
Now comes the hard part :-) On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] 'Egypt is free! Egypt is free!'
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Secularism in USA and India-2
>Alex de Tocqueville, whom modern conservatives in the U.S. so love, *** Only as long as it is convenient for them. Just look at their position on the democracy movement in Egypt! Democracy is great as long as it does not run the risk of going against or competing with American interests. On Feb 11, 2011, at 9:42 AM, amlan saha wrote: > I would actually characterize it differently. > > Secularism in the US implies equal recognition of all religions. It > is the separation of the church and the state (although nothing > specific anywhere spells this out) - the "no establishment" of > religion and "free exercise thereof" in the first amendment taken > together would amount to this separation. Consequently, because of > the equal recognition and the separation, there is a distance but > amicable relationship and significant cooperation between the church > and the state in the U.S. > > This is in sharp contrast to the French concept of "laicite", which > legally prohibits the French state from even recognizing any religion, > let alone cooperating with any. One important part of being French is > to keep your religion private and not flaunt it; completely unlike in > the U.S. Laicite is often seen as outright anti-clericalism. > > Alex de Tocqueville, whom modern conservatives in the U.S. so love, > actually speaks glowingly of U.S. secularism (and chides the French) > in his "Democracy in America" because of this exact difference. > > I see Indian "secularism" (or whatever of that exists) as more in line > with the U.S. concept than what is practiced in France. > > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Rajiv Baruah wrote: >> In USA, secularism means absence of religion. In India, secularism means >> equal treatment of all religions. Thus the multi-faith prayers during >> "state" functions. This definition of secularism has been sanctified by >> years of prevailing usage and case law. There is also the very widespread >> practice of lighting lamps and chanting a few Sanskrit slokas to bless the >> start of many functions. This act of lighting a lamp and chanting Sanskrit >> slokas too is not considered religious but cultural. >> >> Trust this clarifies. >> >> Best regards >> >> Rajiv >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> ___ >> assam mailing list >> assam@assamnet.org >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Secularism in USA and India
You are right Amlan. You explain it very well. However I take issue with "I see Indian "secularism" (or whatever of that exists) as more in line > > with the U.S. concept than what is practiced in France." :-). It maybe so in appearance, but in substance it is far different, like most things Indian that emulate others. It is all make-believe! Mostly a show. On Feb 11, 2011, at 9:42 AM, amlan saha wrote: > I would actually characterize it differently. > > Secularism in the US implies equal recognition of all religions. It > is the separation of the church and the state (although nothing > specific anywhere spells this out) - the "no establishment" of > religion and "free exercise thereof" in the first amendment taken > together would amount to this separation. Consequently, because of > the equal recognition and the separation, there is a distance but > amicable relationship and significant cooperation between the church > and the state in the U.S. > > This is in sharp contrast to the French concept of "laicite", which > legally prohibits the French state from even recognizing any religion, > let alone cooperating with any. One important part of being French is > to keep your religion private and not flaunt it; completely unlike in > the U.S. Laicite is often seen as outright anti-clericalism. > > Alex de Tocqueville, whom modern conservatives in the U.S. so love, > actually speaks glowingly of U.S. secularism (and chides the French) > in his "Democracy in America" because of this exact difference. > > I see Indian "secularism" (or whatever of that exists) as more in line > with the U.S. concept than what is practiced in France. > > > > On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Rajiv Baruah wrote: >> In USA, secularism means absence of religion. In India, secularism means >> equal treatment of all religions. Thus the multi-faith prayers during >> "state" functions. This definition of secularism has been sanctified by >> years of prevailing usage and case law. There is also the very widespread >> practice of lighting lamps and chanting a few Sanskrit slokas to bless the >> start of many functions. This act of lighting a lamp and chanting Sanskrit >> slokas too is not considered religious but cultural. >> >> Trust this clarifies. >> >> Best regards >> >> Rajiv >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> ___ >> assam mailing list >> assam@assamnet.org >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Secularism in USA and India
> This act of lighting a lamp and chanting Sanskrit slokas too is not > considered religious but cultural. *** I can understand that, to a point. But to perform Bhumi Puja at the courthouse site goes far beyond following a cultural tradition. BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to chant Sanskrit "slokas" and lighting lamps. Are non-Hindu traditions similarly followed in such pluralistic societies where there are many religious traditions ? >This definition of secularism has been sanctified by years of prevailing usage >and case law. *** It is an attempt to revise the English language. How can "absence of religion" be the SAME as "In India, secularism means equal treatment of all religions." It is, at best a nefarious ploy at deception, isn't it? On Feb 11, 2011, at 9:24 AM, Rajiv Baruah wrote: > In USA, secularism means absence of religion. In India, secularism means > equal treatment of all religions. Thus the multi-faith prayers during "state" > functions. This definition of secularism has been sanctified by years of > prevailing usage and case law. There is also the very widespread practice of > lighting lamps and chanting a few Sanskrit slokas to bless the start of many > functions. This act of lighting a lamp and chanting Sanskrit slokas too is > not considered religious but cultural. > > Trust this clarifies. > > Best regards > > Rajiv > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Secularism in USA and India
I would actually characterize it differently. Secularism in the US implies equal recognition of all religions. It is the separation of the church and the state (although nothing specific anywhere spells this out) - the "no establishment" of religion and "free exercise thereof" in the first amendment taken together would amount to this separation. Consequently, because of the equal recognition and the separation, there is a distance but amicable relationship and significant cooperation between the church and the state in the U.S. This is in sharp contrast to the French concept of "laicite", which legally prohibits the French state from even recognizing any religion, let alone cooperating with any. One important part of being French is to keep your religion private and not flaunt it; completely unlike in the U.S. Laicite is often seen as outright anti-clericalism. Alex de Tocqueville, whom modern conservatives in the U.S. so love, actually speaks glowingly of U.S. secularism (and chides the French) in his "Democracy in America" because of this exact difference. I see Indian "secularism" (or whatever of that exists) as more in line with the U.S. concept than what is practiced in France. On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Rajiv Baruah wrote: > In USA, secularism means absence of religion. In India, secularism means > equal treatment of all religions. Thus the multi-faith prayers during "state" > functions. This definition of secularism has been sanctified by years of > prevailing usage and case law. There is also the very widespread practice of > lighting lamps and chanting a few Sanskrit slokas to bless the start of many > functions. This act of lighting a lamp and chanting Sanskrit slokas too is > not considered religious but cultural. > > Trust this clarifies. > > Best regards > > Rajiv > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Something ineresting
I've seen a couple of episodes of this. Its OK, not ALL that hilarious though :-). On Feb 10, 2011, at 9:42 PM, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote: > Watch Outsourced - comes in NBC @ 8:30 PM every Thursday. It's hilarious > though it can be taken as insult or embarrassing by some sometimes. > > > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] Secularism in USA and India
In USA, secularism means absence of religion. In India, secularism means equal treatment of all religions. Thus the multi-faith prayers during "state" functions. This definition of secularism has been sanctified by years of prevailing usage and case law. There is also the very widespread practice of lighting lamps and chanting a few Sanskrit slokas to bless the start of many functions. This act of lighting a lamp and chanting Sanskrit slokas too is not considered religious but cultural. Trust this clarifies. Best regards Rajiv Sent from my iPad ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
