Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Chan Mahanta]

*** It all points to a failure, or absence, of leadership.









At 10:42 PM -0700 7/30/07, Mridul Bhuyan wrote:

Dear Umesh  Dilip Da,

Personally, I feel Engineers are best of the lot. They are very 
analytical in approach and they can catch up anything very fast, 
manage everything with care and an engineer has the capability to 
run a company very successfully with or without an MBA degree. 
However, in India, they are one of the most mis-utilised lot.


Umesh, in response to your mail regarding BHEL, as I have pointed 
out to Uttam earlier, there are some public sector units such as 
NTPC, POWERGRID, BHEL who are doing excellent even with their 
limited resources. However, their performance could have reached 
greater heights had their workforce had high moral. The majority of 
engineers are doing the similar type of jobs all through-out their 
life without any special incentive. There is hardly any difference 
in treatment (incentivewise) between a creative one and others. Even 
if you wish to use your creativity, you are not encouraged to use 
it. What these PSUs are achieving, it is because of some stupid (:)) 
sincere engineers, who are indifferent towards any incentive and 
thinks that it is their duty towards the country.


In private sector, the scenario is that the majority of engineers 
are always under pressure to perform. The output expected from you 
by your employer is without any limit. You sometimes wish, you had 
two brains and four hands. They have to sacrifice their personal 
lives, which is affecting the mentalities of those hard-pressed 
people in a very bad way. The end result you see is irritation on 
slightest provocation, unhappy family life, indifference towards 
social life, alchoholism etc. etc.


I have written quite a long mail. Bye for now.

Regards

Mridul

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Mridul-da,

Hmmm I can see where the anti-entrepreneurship attitude is leading 
to.  Perhaps you have heard that engineers are also becoming CEOs 
--IITians  have become phonemal  investmant bankers -helped by the 
fact that not only they are good number crunchers but alo they 
understand engineering companies better . You might have heard of 
one Rajat Gupta who was an IITian , Harvard MBA and lead McKinsey -a 
company which is into bania like activities.


Umesh

Mridul Bhuyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Dear Dilip Da,

My regards to you. Yes, I live in Gurgaon, in India.

In private sector, all the big names like Reliance, AREVA, ABB, 
SIEMENS, Crompton Greaves... etc are employing engineers but not 
because they need them all, but due to the fact thay are available 
at a cheaper price. The call centres are also hiring engineers 
because they are available at the same price tag as that of an 
BA/BSc/B.Com. Being in Gurgaon, I have come across about 10/12 
engineers from Assam (from our kharkhoowa engineering colleges), who 
are working in the call centres such as American Express, citibank 
etc. In call centres of Wipro, IBM, DELL... finding engineers is 
understandable, however, I doubt what type of specialist jobs they 
are doing, which can't be handled by a software programmer. 
Recently, I met one first class mechanical engineer from AEC (that 
too with very high scores), working in American Express, doing 
customer service. Let's talk about our great 'Bania' Company 
Reliance Energy (Engaged in distribution of power in portion of 
Delhi). They would've employed the cheapest available non-technical 
manpower, had it not been for the high voltage circuit breakers, 
transformers, they have to handle. But they are now recruiting 
engineers only for almost all category of jobs except for finance, 
because the supply is abundant. You can get a fresh engineer for 
Rs.3.0 lakhs per annum, but a MBA costs almost twice that amount. 
They transform the Engineer to an excellent manager with their bania 
expertise.:). So, tell me how creativity comes in to the picture. As 
pointed out by Uttam, Private sector is all about acquiring max. 
ouput with minimum cost. Hope, the picture is clearer now.


Regards

Mridul

Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Mridul,
How does it shake out if you draw a line between the public and 
private sectors? If the private sector also is employing engineers 
just for the sake of providing employment or because there is a 
position open for an engineering degree holder, then there is a big 
problem.
I don't know whether you live in India or not. I'd like to hear how 
it is in the Indian private sector.

Dilip Deka

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

At 10:04 PM -0700 7/29/07, Mridul Bhuyan wrote:

As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being 
creative or not makes any difference. Regarding most of the 
engineering jobs in India, except in a few cases, I am not sure, if 
Engineers are required at all :)





Mridul Bhuyan




 You are sooo right Mridul!

What our NRI friends can't quite deal with is the realities of 

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Chan Mahanta]

There is nothing wrong with an engineer becoming a 'bania'. There is 
no moral, social or cultural prohibition against that. Nor is it a 
sin of any kind for a company to hire top engineering graduates to 
man call centers. After all, even those with engineering training 
need to make a living.



The issue is with PUBLIC funding of engineering training, which of 
necessity, is far more expensive than some of the other disciplines 
of  learning. If all that expenditure at the IITs turn out 
stockbrokers for

US investment companies, somebody is losing out huge. Guess WHO!

Indian engineers, by and large cannot fix a leaky plumbing pipe, 
repair an electric motor,  build or even design a bamboo bridge or 
are trained to design a better mousetrap. India needs far more people 
trained for these tasks than turn out engineers to man call centers. 
But these jobs, trades will not attract the able, because of :


	*** Indian social stigma . You are going to be a plumber? 
Horror of horrors. Oh, his son
	is JUST an electrician. What a shame. That is all he became 
with a first division at HS

and two letters!


	*** Refusal to compensate adequately for such services. An 
engineer, by social status
	( not by skill now) will always be paid a far higher 
compensation than an electrician or

a mechanic.

So there is NO incentive for the able to enter a field that not only 
serves ones's economic needs, but also helps nation building.  They 
best of the lot therefore will automatically enter the  legendary 
Indian 'babudom', producing little, never having a chance to 
utilizing their creative abilities or productivity. But at least 
their economic well-being will be guaranteed.


Compare that with a sharp American highschool graduate who will get 
far higher starting salary than a graduate engineer or even one with 
a post  graduate  degree. And his status in society would not be any 
less than that of the engineer next door. He will be coaching the 
kids' soccer team, will run for elective office, serve as a board 
member of the local hospital foundation and be a respected elder of 
the local church. And he keeps industry running smoothly.


So the problem is PUBLIC POLICY! Governmental policy. And 
social/cultural  attitudes.


















At 10:05 PM -0700 7/30/07, umesh sharma wrote:

Mridul-da,

Hmmm I can see where the anti-entrepreneurship attitude is leading 
to.  Perhaps you have heard that engineers are also becoming CEOs 
--IITians  have become phonemal  investmant bankers -helped by the 
fact that not only they are good number crunchers but alo they 
understand engineering companies better . You might have heard of 
one Rajat Gupta who was an IITian , Harvard MBA and lead McKinsey -a 
company which is into bania like activities.


Umesh

Mridul Bhuyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Dear Dilip Da,

My regards to you. Yes, I live in Gurgaon, in India.

In private sector, all the big names like Reliance, AREVA, ABB, 
SIEMENS, Crompton Greaves... etc are employing engineers but not 
because they need them all, but due to the fact thay are available 
at a cheaper price. The call centres are also hiring engineers 
because they are available at the same price tag as that of an 
BA/BSc/B.Com. Being in Gurgaon, I have come across about 10/12 
engineers from Assam (from our kharkhoowa engineering colleges), who 
are working in the call centres such as American Express, citibank 
etc. In call centres of Wipro, IBM, DELL... finding engineers is 
understandable, however, I doubt what type of specialist jobs they 
are doing, which can't be handled by a software programmer. 
Recently, I met one first class mechanical engineer from AEC (that 
too with very high scores), working in American Express, doing 
customer service. Let's talk about our great 'Bania' Company 
Reliance Energy (Engaged in distribution of power in portion of 
Delhi). They would've employed the cheapest available non-technical 
manpower, had it not been for the high voltage circuit breakers, 
transformers, they have to handle. But they are now recruiting 
engineers only for almost all category of jobs except for finance, 
because the supply is abundant. You can get a fresh engineer for 
Rs.3.0 lakhs per annum, but a MBA costs almost twice that amount. 
They transform the Engineer to an excellent manager with their bania 
expertise.:). So, tell me how creativity comes in to the picture. As 
pointed out by Uttam, Private sector is all about acquiring max. 
ouput with minimum cost. Hope, the picture is clearer now.


Regards

Mridul

Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Mridul,
How does it shake out if you draw a line between the public and 
private sectors? If the private sector also is employing engineers 
just for the sake of providing employment or because there is a 
position open for an engineering degree holder, then there is a big 
problem.
I don't know whether you live in India or not. I'd like to hear how 
it is in the Indian 

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[uttam borthakur]

 Indian engineers, by and large cannot fix a leaky plumbing pipe, repair an 
 electric motor,  build or even design a bamboo bridge or are trained to 
 design a better mousetrap.
   
  But why is that? This lamentation or habitual comment , like many others, 
have become a cliche.
   
  In Assam, except trying to share the loot, there is no effort for industrial 
growth or economic development. Even the persons owning the expensive houses, 
cars and such other social indicators in Guwahati are mostly erstwhile 
militants, owners of Non Government Organisations, politicians, middleman etc 
that are not adding to the goods or services really.There is a method in the 
whole thing. It must be to keep Assam a hinterland to benefit some other places.
   
  Similarly, we were taught English literature in the schools, most of us were 
mortally afraid of the subject and we could not utter a single sentence in that 
language. It would be naive to believe that there had never been a design to 
produce such stillborns.
   
  Therefore, churning out engineers who cannot fix a leaky plumbing pipe, 
repair an electric motor,  build or even design a bamboo bridge or are trained 
to design a better mousetrap, must also have a design some where.
   
   
  

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is nothing wrong with an engineer becoming a 'bania'. There is no 
moral, social or cultural prohibition against that. Nor is it a sin of any kind 
for a company to hire top engineering graduates to man call centers. After all, 
even those with engineering training need to make a living.
  

  

  The issue is with PUBLIC funding of engineering training, which of necessity, 
is far more expensive than some of the other disciplines of  learning. If all 
that expenditure at the IITs turn out stockbrokers for
  US investment companies, somebody is losing out huge. Guess WHO!
  

  Indian engineers, by and large cannot fix a leaky plumbing pipe, repair an 
electric motor,  build or even design a bamboo bridge or are trained to design 
a better mousetrap. India needs far more people trained for these tasks than 
turn out engineers to man call centers. But these jobs, trades will not attract 
the able, because of :
  

  *** Indian social stigma . You are going to be a plumber? Horror of 
horrors. Oh, his son
  is JUST an electrician. What a shame. That is all he became with a 
first division at HS
  and two letters!
  

  

  *** Refusal to compensate adequately for such services. An engineer, 
by social status
  ( not by skill now) will always be paid a far higher compensation 
than an electrician or
  a mechanic.
  

  So there is NO incentive for the able to enter a field that not only serves 
ones's economic needs, but also helps nation building.  They best of the lot 
therefore will automatically enter the  legendary Indian 'babudom', producing 
little, never having a chance to utilizing their creative abilities or 
productivity. But at least their economic well-being will be guaranteed.
  

  Compare that with a sharp American highschool graduate who will get  far 
higher starting salary than a graduate engineer or even one with a post  
graduate  degree. And his status in society would not be any less than that of 
the engineer next door. He will be coaching the kids' soccer team, will run for 
elective office, serve as a board member of the local hospital foundation and 
be a respected elder of the local church. And he keeps industry running 
smoothly.
  

  So the problem is PUBLIC POLICY! Governmental policy. And social/cultural  
attitudes.
  

  

  

  

  
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  At 10:05 PM -0700 7/30/07, umesh sharma wrote:
  Mridul-da,

Hmmm I can see where the anti-entrepreneurship attitude is leading to.  Perhaps 
you have heard that engineers are also becoming CEOs  --IITians  have become 
phonemal  investmant bankers -helped by the fact that not only they are good 
number crunchers but alo they understand engineering companies better . You 
might have heard of one Rajat Gupta who was an IITian , Harvard MBA and lead 
McKinsey -a company which is into bania like activities.

Umesh

Mridul Bhuyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Dear Dilip Da, My regards to you. Yes, I live in Gurgaon, in India. 
In private sector, all the big names like Reliance, AREVA, ABB, SIEMENS, 
Crompton Greaves... etc are employing engineers but not because they need them 
all, but due to the fact thay are available at a cheaper price. The call 
centres are also hiring engineers because they are available at the same price 
tag as that of an BA/BSc/B.Com. Being in Gurgaon, I have come across about 
10/12 engineers from Assam (from our kharkhoowa engineering colleges), who are 
working in the call centres such as American Express, citibank etc. In call 
centres of Wipro, IBM, DELL... finding engineers is understandable, however, I 
doubt what type 

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Mridul Bhuyan]

Dear Uttam,
   
  Thanks for reminding me. However, not so many years back, I had the 
opportunity to work with GE in US. What my experience told me that many of the 
high tech jobs, which in India, we can't even dreamt of being perfomed by a 
non-engineer, have very efficiently been done by non-technical man there in US. 
As far as PSUs are concerned, they are not exactly doing a bad job even in the 
current scenario, competing with the private sector (take for example, NTPC, 
POWERGRID, PFC, BHEL... do not bring in SEBs, state PSUs), provided the modern 
day heroes like, PChidambaram, Montek S etc. allows them to continue. See the 
working of some of private sector giants like RIL and you will know, to what 
extent they rely on Engineers.
   
  However, as you say things are changing for better or worse and I will not 
deny you of your rights to rejoice.
   
  Mridul
   
   
  uttam borthakur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative 
or not makes any difference. Regarding most of the engineering jobs in India, 
except in a few cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :)
   
  India seems to be in a transitional phase. In the prior period, i.e the days 
of the PSUs etc., what you have stated holds good, because, the stress was on 
non-performance and to look up for loans, aids and offals etc.,  for whatever 
reason. The emerging situation involving more geographical division of labour, 
now demands more performance at comparatively lower prices than ,say, in the 
west. So, creativity enhancing such performance or lowering of the cost of 
production, would be welcomed and remunerated. So, Mridul, you can continue 
with your  happy disposition of earlier days and need not brood, because, as 
they say, the things are changing for the better or for the worse  

Mridul Bhuyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative or 
not makes any difference. Regarding most of the engineering jobs in India, 
except in a few cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :)
   
  Mridul Bhuyan

Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Umesh,
  Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer should be 
good in math, just to survive in the field. The design engineers need to know 
what is behind the softwares they use now a days to solve engineering problems.
  There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute without 
being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 30+ years in the 
field, including management of engineers, I should know something about 
engineers by now.
  A request to engineers in India - please speak up.
  Dilipda

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high school 
levele - not at an engineering college.

***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it 

Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, 
Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math is 
used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math helps 
students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in high school helps 
engineering students as well, across the board.  


  *** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound primary 
education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you look at the 
percentage of students in Assam who have a decent knowledge of math 
fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in science, technology etc.
  

  But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it .
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  


  Dilip  ==

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html

Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[uttam borthakur]

Dear Mridul
   
  I agree whole heartedly about what you say. Though I am a non-technical 
person, I understand that you do not always need engineers to run many of the 
works in a system. ( I thought you were referring to the fact that in India 
many engineers are reduced to file pushers and forget their subjects. I now 
understand that you were saying so in another context) I also have been told 
that in the developed world, the nurses do the main works and the doctors are 
basically planners and supervisors. Yes, some PSU's are performing well, but 
there has been a design to undermine those, as if privatisation is the only way 
of salvation. Even the performers are not allowed to continue.That is why I 
told that the stress was on their non-performance. In Assam, some of the 
private sector industries have come up only to take away the subsidies and 
enjoy other benefits while they are actually wheeling-dealing traders from the 
rest of India. With the increased automation, engineers are required
 more for supervision, planning, training and creativity than doing day to day 
chores. Why should I rejoice That part I have not understood. Be that as it 
may, I have said so, because only time will tell whether the changes are for 
the good or for the worse.   

Mridul Bhuyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Uttam,
   
  Thanks for reminding me. However, not so many years back, I had the 
opportunity to work with GE in US. What my experience told me that many of the 
high tech jobs, which in India, we can't even dreamt of being perfomed by a 
non-engineer, have very efficiently been done by non-technical man there in US. 
As far as PSUs are concerned, they are not exactly doing a bad job even in the 
current scenario, competing with the private sector (take for example, NTPC, 
POWERGRID, PFC, BHEL... do not bring in SEBs, state PSUs), provided the modern 
day heroes like, PChidambaram, Montek S etc. allows them to continue. See the 
working of some of private sector giants like RIL and you will know, to what 
extent they rely on Engineers.
   
  However, as you say things are changing for better or worse and I will not 
deny you of your rights to rejoice.
   
  Mridul
   
   
  uttam borthakur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative 
or not makes any difference. Regarding most of the engineering jobs in India, 
except in a few cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :)
   
  India seems to be in a transitional phase. In the prior period, i.e the days 
of the PSUs etc., what you have stated holds good, because, the stress was on 
non-performance and to look up for loans, aids and offals etc.,  for whatever 
reason. The emerging situation involving more geographical division of labour, 
now demands more performance at comparatively lower prices than ,say, in the 
west. So, creativity enhancing such performance or lowering of the cost of 
production, would be welcomed and remunerated. So, Mridul, you can continue 
with your  happy disposition of earlier days and need not brood, because, as 
they say, the things are changing for the better or for the worse  

Mridul Bhuyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative or 
not makes any difference. Regarding most of the engineering jobs in India, 
except in a few cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :)
   
  Mridul Bhuyan

Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Umesh,
  Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer should be 
good in math, just to survive in the field. The design engineers need to know 
what is behind the softwares they use now a days to solve engineering problems.
  There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute without 
being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 30+ years in the 
field, including management of engineers, I should know something about 
engineers by now.
  A request to engineers in India - please speak up.
  Dilipda

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high school 
levele - not at an engineering college.

***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it 

Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, 
Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math is 
used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math helps 
students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in 

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Mridul Bhuyan]

I agree wholeheartedly. Regarding the rejoicing part, let it remain like that. 
:)
   
  Mridul
   
  

uttam borthakur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Mridul
   
  I agree whole heartedly about what you say. Though I am a non-technical 
person, I understand that you do not always need engineers to run many of the 
works in a system. ( I thought you were referring to the fact that in India 
many engineers are reduced to file pushers and forget their subjects. I now 
understand that you were saying so in another context) I also have been told 
that in the developed world, the nurses do the main works and the doctors are 
basically planners and supervisors. Yes, some PSU's are performing well, but 
there has been a design to undermine those, as if privatisation is the only way 
of salvation. Even the performers are not allowed to continue.That is why I 
told that the stress was on their non-performance. In Assam, some of the 
private sector industries have come up only to take away the subsidies and 
enjoy other benefits while they are actually wheeling-dealing traders from the 
rest of India. With the increased automation, engineers are required
 more for supervision, planning, training and creativity than doing day to day 
chores. Why should I rejoice That part I have not understood. Be that as it 
may, I have said so, because only time will tell whether the changes are for 
the good or for the worse.   

Mridul Bhuyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Uttam,
   
  Thanks for reminding me. However, not so many years back, I had the 
opportunity to work with GE in US. What my experience told me that many of the 
high tech jobs, which in India, we can't even dreamt of being perfomed by a 
non-engineer, have very efficiently been done by non-technical man there in US. 
As far as PSUs are concerned, they are not exactly doing a bad job even in the 
current scenario, competing with the private sector (take for example, NTPC, 
POWERGRID, PFC, BHEL... do not bring in SEBs, state PSUs), provided the modern 
day heroes like, PChidambaram, Montek S etc. allows them to continue. See the 
working of some of private sector giants like RIL and you will know, to what 
extent they rely on Engineers.
   
  However, as you say things are changing for better or worse and I will not 
deny you of your rights to rejoice.
   
  Mridul
   
   
  uttam borthakur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative 
or not makes any difference. Regarding most of the engineering jobs in India, 
except in a few cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :)
   
  India seems to be in a transitional phase. In the prior period, i.e the days 
of the PSUs etc., what you have stated holds good, because, the stress was on 
non-performance and to look up for loans, aids and offals etc.,  for whatever 
reason. The emerging situation involving more geographical division of labour, 
now demands more performance at comparatively lower prices than ,say, in the 
west. So, creativity enhancing such performance or lowering of the cost of 
production, would be welcomed and remunerated. So, Mridul, you can continue 
with your  happy disposition of earlier days and need not brood, because, as 
they say, the things are changing for the better or for the worse  

Mridul Bhuyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative or 
not makes any difference. Regarding most of the engineering jobs in India, 
except in a few cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :)
   
  Mridul Bhuyan

Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Umesh,
  Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer should be 
good in math, just to survive in the field. The design engineers need to know 
what is behind the softwares they use now a days to solve engineering problems.
  There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute without 
being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 30+ years in the 
field, including management of engineers, I should know something about 
engineers by now.
  A request to engineers in India - please speak up.
  Dilipda

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high school 
levele - not at an engineering college.

***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it 

Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, 
Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  Netters with interest in science will find this article 

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Chan Mahanta]

At 10:04 PM -0700 7/29/07, Mridul Bhuyan wrote:
As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being 
creative or not makes any difference. Regarding most of the 
engineering jobs in India, except in a few cases, I am not sure, if 
Engineers are required at all :)


Mridul Bhuyan




 You are sooo right Mridul!

What our NRI friends can't quite deal with is the realities of India. 
They need to keep up those appearances, NOT because they  do not 
know, but it is from their own personal insecurities about who or 
what they identify with.



c-da




















Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Umesh,
Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer 
should be good in math, just to survive in the field. The design 
engineers need to know what is behind the softwares they use now a 
days to solve engineering problems.
There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute 
without being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 
30+ years in the field, including management of engineers, I should 
know something about engineers by now.

A request to engineers in India - please speak up.
Dilipda

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high 
school levele - not at an engineering college.


***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of 
itself, does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One 
can do well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just 
as engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering 
also requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools 
rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability 
or have the aptitude to develop it


Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:

Netters with interest in science will find this article 
interesting. Math is used in all sciences, so obviously good 
fundamental knowledge in math helps students in all branches of 
science. A good grasp of math in high school helps engineering 
students as well, across the board.





*** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound 
primary education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you 
look at the percentage of students in Assam who have a decent 
knowledge of math fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in 
science, technology etc.


But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, 
does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do 
well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just as 
engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering also 
requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools rarely 
help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability or have 
the aptitude to develop it .



















Dilip


==

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html

Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/


Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, 
http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/winter07.htmlsign 
up for your free account 
today.___

assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org



___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org


___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org




Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/

Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - 
quick, easy and free. 
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/uk/taglines/yahoo_com/trueswitch/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/trueswitch2.htmlDo 
it now...



___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org




Be a better Globetrotter. 

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Dilip/Dil Deka]

Mridul,
  How does it shake out if you draw a line between the public and private 
sectors? If the private sector also is employing engineers just for the sake of 
providing employment or because there is a position open for an engineering 
degree holder, then there is a big problem. 
  I don't know whether you live in India or not. I'd like to hear how it is in 
the Indian private sector.
  Dilip Deka

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 10:04 PM -0700 7/29/07, Mridul Bhuyan wrote:
  As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative or not 
makes any difference. Regarding most of the engineering jobs in India, except 
in a few cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :) Mridul 
Bhuyan  


  

   You are sooo right Mridul!
  

  What our NRI friends can't quite deal with is the realities of India. They 
need to keep up those appearances, NOT because they  do not know, but it is 
from their own personal insecurities about who or what they identify with.
  

  

  c-da
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  


  
Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Umesh,  Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer 
should be good in math, just to survive in the field. The design engineers need 
to know what is behind the softwares they use now a days to solve engineering 
problems.  There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute 
without being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 30+ years in 
the field, including management of engineers, I should know something about 
engineers by now.  A request to engineers in India - please speak up.  Dilipda

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high school 
levele - not at an engineering college.

***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it

Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math is 
used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math helps 
students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in high school helps 
engineering students as well, across the board.
  

  *** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound primary 
education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you look at the 
percentage of students in Assam who have a decent knowledge of math 
fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in science, technology etc.  
  But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it .  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  Dilip
==

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html

Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/

-
Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up 
for your free account today.___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
  
  
___
assam mailing list  assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
  
  ___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
  


Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Ram Sarangapani]

Hi C'da

I am totally confused.

This is what you wrote the other day (about engineers):

However they are not the people who build nations, break new grounds or
solve problems in creative ways.

And today, (to Mridul's As far as engineers employed in India, I am not
sure if being creative or not makes any difference.)

  You are sooo right Mridul!

What our NRI friends can't quite deal with is the realities of India. They
need to keep up those appearances, NOT because they  do not know, but it is
from their own personal insecurities about who or what they identify with.

My take on this whole thing is that countries need visonaries --- and these
can be engineers, scientists, day dreamers, politicians or farmers. US or
western countries have not cornered the market on creative individuals. They
can be found almost anywhere.

Maybe its the 'language barrier here' - but it seemed like you were saying
that there are no creative people in India, or that Indians are not capable
in contributing anything positive to their country. I am sure I
misunderstood.. :)

--Ram

On 7/30/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  At 10:04 PM -0700 7/29/07, Mridul Bhuyan wrote:

 As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative or
 not makes any difference. Regarding most of the engineering jobs in India,
 except in a few cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :)



 Mridul Bhuyan






  You are sooo right Mridul!


 What our NRI friends can't quite deal with is the realities of India. They
 need to keep up those appearances, NOT because they  do not know, but it is
 from their own personal insecurities about who or what they identify with.




 c-da





































 *Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote:

 Umesh,

 Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer should be
 good in math, just to survive in the field. The design engineers need to
 know what is behind the softwares they use now a days to solve engineering
 problems.

 There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute without
 being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 30+ years in the
 field, including management of engineers, I should know something about
 engineers by now.

 A request to engineers in India - please speak up.

 Dilipda

 *umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote:

 C-da,

 But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high
 school levele - not at an engineering college.

 ***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself,
 does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in
 the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a
 lot of other fields, but real engineering also requires creativity --
 something Indian engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone
 is endowed with an ability or have the aptitude to develop it

 Umesh

 *Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote:

 At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:

 Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math
 is used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math
 helps students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in high
 school helps engineering students as well, across the board.



 *** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound primary
 education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you look at the
 percentage of students in Assam who have a decent knowledge of math
 fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in science, technology etc.


 But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does
 not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the
 academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot
 of other fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something
 Indian engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is
 endowed with an ability or have the aptitude to develop it .


















 Dilip

   ==

 *umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote:

 http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_072
 62007.html

 Umesh Sharma

 Washington D.C.

 1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

 Ed.M. - International Education Policy
 Harvard Graduate School of Education,
 Harvard University,
 Class of 2005

 http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

 http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




 www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




 http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/

  --

 Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up
 for your free account 
 todayhttp://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/winter07.html
 .___
 assam mailing list
 assam@assamnet.org
 

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[umesh sharma]

Here is something about India's government engineers ruling the globe:

http://www.bhel.com/bhel/overseasbusiness/international.htm

BHEL, ranking among the major power plant equipment suppliers in the world, is 
one of the largest exporters of engineering products  services from India. 
Over the years,  BHEL has established its references in around 60 countries of 
the world, ranging from the United States in the West to New Zealand in the Far 
East. BHEL's export range covers individual products to complete Power 
Stations, Turnkey Contracts for Power Plants, EPC Contracts, HV/EHV 
Sub-stations, OM Services for familiar technologies, Specialized after-market 
services like Residual Life Assessment (RLA) studies and Retrofitting, 
Refurbishing  Overhauling, and supplies to manufacturers  EPC contractors. 
   BHEL has assimilated and updated/adopted the 
state-of-the-art-technologies in the Power and Industrial equipment sectors 
acquired from world leaders.  BHEL has successfully undertaken turnkey projects 
on its own and possesses the requisite flexibility to interface and complement 
international companies for large projects, and has also exhibited adaptability 
by manufacturing and supplying intermediate products to the design of other 
manufacturers and original equipment manufacturers (OEMs). The success in the 
area of rehabilitation and life extension of power projects has established  
BHEL as a reliable alternative to the OEMs for such power plants.   
  
 

Umesh

Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mridul,
  How does it shake out if you draw a line between the public and private 
sectors? If the private sector also is employing engineers just for the sake of 
providing employment or because there is a position open for an engineering 
degree holder, then there is a big problem. 
  I don't know whether you live in India or not. I'd like to hear how it is in 
the Indian private sector.
  Dilip Deka

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 10:04 PM -0700 7/29/07, Mridul Bhuyan wrote:
  As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative or not 
makes any difference. Regarding most of the engineering jobs in India, except 
in a few  cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :) Mridul 
Bhuyan  


  

   You are sooo right Mridul!
  

  What our NRI friends can't quite deal with is the realities of India. They 
need to keep up those appearances, NOT because they  do not know, but it is 
from their own personal insecurities about who or what they identify with.
  

  

  c-da
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  


  
Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Umesh,  Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer 
should be good in math, just to survive in the field. The design engineers need 
to know what is behind the softwares they use now a days to solve engineering 
problems.  There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute 
without being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 30+ years in 
the field, including management of engineers, I should know something about 
engineers by now.  A request to engineers in India - please speak up.  Dilipda

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high school 
levele - not at an engineering college.

***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an  engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it

Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math is 
used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math helps 
students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in high school helps 
engineering students as well, across the board.
  

  *** And that is exactly why it is so essential to  have a sound primary 
education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you look at the 
percentage of students in Assam who have a decent knowledge of math 
fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in science, technology etc.  
  But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the 

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Mridul Bhuyan]

Dear Dilip Da,
   
  My regards to you. Yes, I live in Gurgaon, in India.
   
  In private sector, all the big names like Reliance, AREVA, ABB, SIEMENS, 
Crompton Greaves... etc are employing engineers but not because they need them 
all, but due to the fact thay are available at a cheaper price. The call 
centres are also hiring engineers because they are available at the same price 
tag as that of an BA/BSc/B.Com. Being in Gurgaon, I have come across about 
10/12 engineers from Assam (from our kharkhoowa engineering colleges), who are 
working in the call centres such as American Express, citibank etc. In call 
centres of Wipro, IBM, DELL... finding engineers is understandable, however, I 
doubt what type of specialist jobs they are doing, which can't be handled by a 
software programmer. Recently, I met one first class mechanical engineer from 
AEC (that too with very high scores), working in American Express, doing 
customer service. Let's talk about our great 'Bania' Company Reliance Energy 
(Engaged in distribution of power in portion of Delhi). They
 would've employed the cheapest available non-technical manpower, had it not 
been for the high voltage circuit breakers, transformers, they have to handle. 
But they are now recruiting engineers only for almost all category of jobs 
except for finance, because the supply is abundant. You can get a fresh 
engineer for Rs.3.0 lakhs per annum, but a MBA costs almost twice that amount. 
They transform the Engineer to an excellent manager with their bania 
expertise.:). So, tell me how creativity comes in to the picture. As pointed 
out by Uttam, Private sector is all about acquiring max. ouput with minimum 
cost. Hope, the picture is clearer now.
   
  Regards
   
  Mridul

Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mridul,
  How does it shake out if you draw a line between the public and private 
sectors? If the private sector also is employing engineers just for the sake of 
providing employment or because there is a position open for an engineering 
degree holder, then there is a big problem. 
  I don't know whether you live in India or not. I'd like to hear how it is in 
the Indian private sector.
  Dilip Deka

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 10:04 PM -0700 7/29/07, Mridul Bhuyan wrote:
  As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative or not 
makes any difference. Regarding most of the engineering jobs in India, except 
in a few cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :) Mridul 
Bhuyan  


  

   You are sooo right Mridul!
  

  What our NRI friends can't quite deal with is the realities of India. They 
need to keep up those appearances, NOT because they  do not know, but it is 
from their own personal insecurities about who or what they identify with.
  

  

  c-da
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  


  
Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Umesh,  Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer 
should be good in math, just to survive in the field. The design engineers need 
to know what is behind the softwares they use now a days to solve engineering 
problems.  There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute 
without being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 30+ years in 
the field, including management of engineers, I should know something about 
engineers by now.  A request to engineers in India - please speak up.  Dilipda

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high school 
levele - not at an engineering college.

***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it

Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math is 
used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math helps 
students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in high school helps 
engineering students as well, across the board.
  

  *** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound primary 
education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you look at the 
percentage of students in Assam who have a decent knowledge of math 
fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in science, technology etc.  
  But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in 

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[umesh sharma]

Mridul-da,

Hmmm I can see where the anti-entrepreneurship attitude is leading to.  Perhaps 
you have heard that engineers are also becoming CEOs  --IITians  have become 
phonemal  investmant bankers -helped by the fact that not only they are good 
number crunchers but alo they understand engineering companies better . You 
might have heard of one Rajat Gupta who was an IITian , Harvard MBA and lead 
McKinsey -a company which is into bania like activities.

Umesh

Mridul Bhuyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Dilip Da,
   
  My regards to you. Yes, I live in Gurgaon, in India.
   
  In private sector, all the big names like Reliance, AREVA, ABB, SIEMENS, 
Crompton Greaves... etc are employing engineers but not because they need them 
all, but due to the fact thay are available at a cheaper price. The call 
centres are also hiring engineers because they are available at the same price 
tag as that of an BA/BSc/B.Com. Being in Gurgaon, I have come across about 
10/12 engineers from Assam (from our kharkhoowa engineering colleges), who are 
working in the call centres such as American Express, citibank etc. In call 
centres of Wipro, IBM, DELL... finding engineers is understandable, however, I 
doubt what type of specialist jobs they are doing, which can't be handled by a 
software programmer. Recently, I met one first class mechanical engineer from 
AEC (that too with very high scores), working in American Express, doing 
customer  service. Let's talk about our great 'Bania' Company Reliance Energy 
(Engaged in distribution of power in portion of Delhi). They
 would've employed the cheapest available non-technical manpower, had it not 
been for the high voltage circuit breakers, transformers, they have to handle. 
But they are now recruiting engineers only for almost all category of jobs 
except for finance, because the supply is abundant. You can get a fresh 
engineer for Rs.3.0 lakhs per annum, but a MBA costs almost twice that amount. 
They transform the Engineer to an excellent manager with their bania 
expertise.:). So, tell me how creativity comes in to the picture. As pointed 
out by Uttam, Private sector is all about acquiring max. ouput with minimum 
cost. Hope, the picture is clearer now.
   
  Regards
   
  Mridul

Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mridul,
  How does it shake out if you draw a line between the public and private 
sectors? If the private sector also is employing engineers just for the sake of 
providing employment or because there is a position open for an engineering 
degree holder, then there is a big problem. 
  I don't know whether you live in India or not. I'd like to hear how it is in 
the Indian private sector.
  Dilip Deka

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 10:04 PM -0700 7/29/07, Mridul Bhuyan wrote:
  As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative or not 
makes any difference. Regarding most  of the engineering jobs in India, except 
in a few cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :) Mridul 
Bhuyan  


  

   You are sooo right Mridul!
  

  What our NRI friends can't quite deal with is the realities of India. They 
need to keep up those appearances, NOT because they  do not know, but it is 
from their own personal insecurities about who or what they identify with.
  

  

  c-da
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  


  
Dilip/Dil Deka  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Umesh,  Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer 
should be good in math, just to survive in the field. The design engineers need 
to know what is behind the softwares they use now a days to solve engineering 
problems.  There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute 
without being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 30+ years in 
the field, including management of engineers, I should know something about 
engineers by now.  A request to engineers in India - please speak up.  Dilipda

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high school 
levele - not at an engineering college.

***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and  of itself, does 
not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the 
academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of 
other fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it

Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math is 
used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math helps 
students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in high school helps 
engineering students as well, across the board.
  

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Mridul Bhuyan]

Dear Umesh  Dilip Da,
   
  Personally, I feel Engineers are best of the lot. They are very analytical in 
approach and they can catch up anything very fast, manage everything with care 
and an engineer has the capability to run a company very successfully with or 
without an MBA degree. However, in India, they are one of the most mis-utilised 
lot.
   
  Umesh, in response to your mail regarding BHEL, as I have pointed out to 
Uttam earlier, there are some public sector units such as NTPC, POWERGRID, 
BHEL who are doing excellent even with their limited resources. However, 
their performance could have reached greater heights had their workforce had 
high moral. The majority of engineers are doing the similar type of jobs all 
through-out their life without any special incentive. There is hardly any 
difference in treatment (incentivewise) between a creative one and others. Even 
if you wish to use your creativity, you are not encouraged to use it. What 
these PSUs are achieving, it is because of some stupid (:)) sincere engineers, 
who are indifferent towards any incentive and thinks that it is their duty 
towards the country.
   
  In private sector, the scenario is that the majority of engineers are always 
under pressure to perform. The output expected from you by your employer is 
without any limit. You sometimes wish, you had two brains and four hands. They 
have to sacrifice their personal lives, which is affecting the mentalities of 
those hard-pressed people in a very bad way. The end result you see is 
irritation on slightest provocation, unhappy family life, indifference towards 
social life, alchoholism etc. etc.
   
  I have written quite a long mail. Bye for now.
   
  Regards
   
  Mridul

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Mridul-da,

Hmmm I can see where the anti-entrepreneurship attitude is leading to.  Perhaps 
you have heard that engineers are also becoming CEOs  --IITians  have become 
phonemal  investmant bankers -helped by the fact that not only they are good 
number crunchers but alo they understand engineering companies better . You 
might have heard of one Rajat Gupta who was an IITian , Harvard MBA and lead 
McKinsey -a company which is into bania like activities.

Umesh

Mridul Bhuyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Dear Dilip Da,
   
  My regards to you. Yes, I live in Gurgaon, in India.
   
  In private sector, all the big names like Reliance, AREVA, ABB, SIEMENS, 
Crompton Greaves... etc are employing engineers but not because they need them 
all, but due to the fact thay are available at a cheaper price. The call 
centres are also hiring engineers because they are available at the same price 
tag as that of an BA/BSc/B.Com. Being in Gurgaon, I have come across about 
10/12 engineers from Assam (from our kharkhoowa engineering colleges), who are 
working in the call centres such as American Express, citibank etc. In call 
centres of Wipro, IBM, DELL... finding engineers is understandable, however, I 
doubt what type of specialist jobs they are doing, which can't be handled by a 
software programmer. Recently, I met one first class mechanical engineer from 
AEC (that too with very high scores), working in American Express, doing 
customer service. Let's talk about our great 'Bania' Company Reliance Energy 
(Engaged in distribution of power in portion of Delhi). They
 would've employed the cheapest available non-technical manpower, had it not 
been for the high voltage circuit breakers, transformers, they have to handle. 
But they are now recruiting engineers only for almost all category of jobs 
except for finance, because the supply is abundant. You can get a fresh 
engineer for Rs.3.0 lakhs per annum, but a MBA costs almost twice that amount. 
They transform the Engineer to an excellent manager with their bania 
expertise.:). So, tell me how creativity comes in to the picture. As pointed 
out by Uttam, Private sector is all about acquiring max. ouput with minimum 
cost. Hope, the picture is clearer now.
   
  Regards
   
  Mridul

Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mridul,
  How does it shake out if you draw a line between the public and private 
sectors? If the private sector also is employing engineers just for the sake of 
providing employment or because there is a position open for an engineering 
degree holder, then there is a big problem. 
  I don't know whether you live in India or not. I'd like to hear how it is in 
the Indian private sector.
  Dilip Deka

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 10:04 PM -0700 7/29/07, Mridul Bhuyan wrote:
  As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative or not 
makes any difference. Regarding most of the engineering jobs in India, except 
in a few cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :) Mridul 
Bhuyan  


  

   You are sooo right Mridul!
  

  What our NRI friends can't quite deal with is the realities of India. They 
need to keep up those appearances, NOT 

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[umesh sharma]

Mridul-da,

You make good points. Have you seen the movie Ek Doctor ki maut based on an 
Indian researcher in 80s who commites suicide when his govt supervisor takes 
creit for the vaccine he had developed = I think it was by Pankaj Kapoor - I 
saw i while a college student at Delhi Univ - in the hostel 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ek_Doctor_Ki_Maut

But this is a new era - global opportunities...

Umesh

Mridul Bhuyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Umesh  Dilip Da,
   
  Personally, I feel Engineers are best of the lot. They are very analytical in 
approach and they can catch up anything very fast, manage everything with care 
and an engineer has the capability to run a company very successfully with or 
without an MBA degree. However, in India, they are one of the most mis-utilised 
lot.
   
  Umesh, in response to your mail regarding BHEL, as I have pointed out to 
Uttam earlier, there are some public sector units such as NTPC, POWERGRID, 
BHEL who are doing excellent even with their limited resources. However, 
their performance could have reached greater heights had their workforce had 
high moral. The majority of engineers are doing the similar type of jobs all 
through-out their life without any special incentive. There is hardly any 
difference in treatment (incentivewise) between a creative one and others. Even 
if you wish to use your  creativity, you are not encouraged to use it. What 
these PSUs are achieving, it is because of some stupid (:)) sincere engineers, 
who are indifferent towards any incentive and thinks that it is their duty 
towards the country.
   
  In private sector, the scenario is that the majority of engineers are always 
under pressure to perform. The output expected from you by your employer is 
without any limit. You sometimes wish, you had two brains and four hands. They 
have to sacrifice their personal lives, which is affecting the mentalities of 
those hard-pressed people in a very bad way. The end result you see is 
irritation on slightest provocation, unhappy family life, indifference towards 
social life, alchoholism etc. etc.
   
  I have written quite a long mail. Bye for now.
   
  Regards
   
  Mridul

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
  Mridul-da,

Hmmm I can see where the anti-entrepreneurship attitude is leading to.  Perhaps 
you have heard that engineers are also becoming CEOs  --IITians  have become 
phonemal  investmant bankers -helped by the fact that not only they are good 
number crunchers but alo they understand engineering companies better . You 
might have heard of one Rajat Gupta who was an IITian , Harvard MBA and lead 
McKinsey -a company which is into bania like activities.

Umesh

Mridul Bhuyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Dear Dilip Da,
   
  My regards to you. Yes, I live in Gurgaon, in India.
   
  In private sector, all the big names like Reliance, AREVA,  ABB, SIEMENS, 
Crompton Greaves... etc are employing engineers but not because they need them 
all, but due to the fact thay are available at a cheaper price. The call 
centres are also hiring engineers because they are available at the same price 
tag as that of an BA/BSc/B.Com. Being in Gurgaon, I have come across about 
10/12 engineers from Assam (from our kharkhoowa engineering colleges), who are 
working in the call centres such as American Express, citibank etc. In call 
centres of Wipro, IBM, DELL... finding engineers is understandable, however, I 
doubt what type of specialist jobs they are doing, which can't be handled by a 
software programmer. Recently, I met one first class mechanical engineer from 
AEC (that too with very high scores), working in American Express, doing 
customer service. Let's talk about our great 'Bania' Company Reliance Energy 
(Engaged in distribution of power in portion of Delhi). They
 would've employed the cheapest available non-technical manpower,  had it not 
been for the high voltage circuit breakers, transformers, they have to handle. 
But they are now recruiting engineers only for almost all category of jobs 
except for finance, because the supply is abundant. You can get a fresh 
engineer for Rs.3.0 lakhs per annum, but a MBA costs almost twice that amount. 
They transform the Engineer to an excellent manager with their bania 
expertise.:). So, tell me how creativity comes in to the picture. As pointed 
out by Uttam, Private sector is all about acquiring max. ouput with minimum 
cost. Hope, the picture is clearer now.
   
  Regards
   
  Mridul

Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mridul,
  How does it shake out if you draw a line between the public and private 
sectors? If the private sector also  is employing engineers just for the sake 
of providing employment or because there is a position open for an engineering 
degree holder, then there is a big problem. 
  I don't know whether you live in India or not. I'd like to hear how it is in 
the Indian private sector.
  Dilip Deka

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Chan Mahanta]

O' Ram:

Hope your weekend is going well. We had a nice kharkhowa gathering, 
along with some  kolgutikhowas and even a couple of desuali  folks 
last evening. This has been the most pleasant of July weather I can 
recall in our 32 years in St. Louis. A light breeze carrying mist 
from the river kept us comfortable, the mosquitos were on vacation, 
the cicadas were noisy but our friends' conversation kept them at bay 
and my mango-margarita kept everyone mellower than the near 
full-moon's light under a clear sky, until we fared our friends well- 
in whose honor we hosted the gathering--on their impending
trip to the desert of Rajasthan where he will be teaching business 
management as a Fullbright Scholar

on sabbatical at Pilani and she will be there to keep him company.

Anyway,  I read your thoughts here. As usual, no problems with your 
being a non-engineer. I am not one either. In IIT we, the 
architecture students, were laughed at by our engineering friends, 
because we did not use slide-rules, which was equivalent to looking 
down upon people who count with their fingertips, the lowest of the 
low-tech lot, a few notches below the logarithmatic-table users. We 
tried to turn the tables by laughing at their drawing skills. But 
they knew how to put us even further down: They told us that they 
will always have draftsmen ( I don't remember hearing of draftswomen) 
to do their dirty work, while we shall remain pencil-pushers for 
ever. That was really below the below the belt, and it hurt.


Enough about my sad stories.

On the fools'-rush front, I won't hold anyone guilty of crimes that I 
routinely commit. So rest easy there also.


By now if you are beginning to fret about   all the nicey-nice leader 
to this response and wondering if I am about spring a tripper on you, 
relax there too. I don't have anything tricky up my sleeve this 
morning.


All I ask is WHAT exactly were you and your cheering section, ably 
led by Krishendu,  trying to prove or disprove ? Once I get a bearing 
on that, I will be pleased to share my thoughts.


Take care.

c-da










At 9:16 AM -0600 7/28/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:

C'da

Being a non-engineer, and susori-musori pass kora individual, I may 
not be qualified to comment in this high-flying math/engg. debate - 
but nevertheless, I will try... you know, fools rush in where 
angels


One, is it is generally recognized that Indian graduating from 
Indian schools are good in math/science. Not because they boast 
about it, but because they just are. There are extremely bright 
people there.
Most of the people who have been a big success in this and other 
countries have had their fundas from India, and most Assamese from 
the Engg. colleges in Assam, and education in cotton or GU or DU.


Second, you charge that because you don't see contributions from 
these people in India, then obviously these graduates are Not 
creative etc.


It is possible that even though these Indians may be creative and 
intelligent, but may NOT be willing or are not able to contribute to
societies they came from. Maybe, they came to the USA to make more 
money (read better opportunities).
While, I do not think there is anything wrong with that, let us 
realize that  there are many many people in India who are just as 
capabale or better than immigrants to the US and who have 
contributed to Indian's growth and development.


Third, if these people were not creative in India, how is it that 
these very same people with the basic fundamentals from India have 
suddenly become creative here? Did they suddenly sprout wings?


Lastly, (and I may the loner here) - Math  science are great, but 
let us not put down other branches. There are many world leaders 
(Kennedy/Gandhi/Nehru etc) who have come from non-science, non-tech 
backgrounds, but have been instrumental in development and broad 
visions for their countrues.


If it wasn't for Nehru, many today would NOT have gone to the IITs. 
Yes, those same IITs that have enabled many to build careers in the 
US and in India. Yes, those same IITs that have built the very 
foundations that they so easily rubbish today.


If it wasn't for JFK, man may not have gone to the moon. A country 
needs visionaries, just like it needs bright people from every other 
branch.


More later

--Ram

On 7/28/07, Chan Mahanta 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 By this logic, with so many successful Indian
Engineers and Scientists in US and other countries the
primary math foundation laid by Indian School system
must be excellent.


*** Can you cite some statistics, or even educated guesses on how 
many successful Indian
Engineers and Scientists in US and other countries are there, and
what percentage is that of :

A: Total number of scientists and engineers produced by India?

B: Total number of people of the demographics of which these are a
segment and how the rest are doing ?


C: HOW these successful products of an 'excellent' Indian 

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[umesh sharma]

C-da,

Glad to hear that you had a great time this weekend. I am sure your tough life 
at IIT as a budding architect made you doubly tenacious.

Best.

Umesh

Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi C'da,
  
 I am glad you all had a great weekend. I am trying to send you a nice response 
- but it will take some time and serious thinking :)
  
 Till then
  
 --Ram

 
 On 7/29/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   O' Ram:
 
 
 Hope your weekend is going well. We had a nice kharkhowa gathering, along with 
some  kolgutikhowas and even a couple of desuali  folks last evening. This has 
been the most pleasant of July weather I can recall in our 32 years in St. 
Louis. A light breeze carrying mist from the river kept us comfortable, the 
mosquitos were on vacation, the cicadas were noisy but our friends' 
conversation kept them at bay and my mango-margarita kept everyone mellower 
than the near full-moon's light under a clear sky, until we fared our friends 
well- in whose honor we hosted the gathering--on their impending 
 trip to the desert of Rajasthan where he will be teaching business management 
as a Fullbright Scholar
 on sabbatical at Pilani and she will be there to keep him company.
 
 
 Anyway,  I read your thoughts here. As usual, no problems with your being a 
non-engineer. I am not one either. In IIT we, the architecture students, were 
laughed at by our engineering friends, because we did not use slide-rules, 
which was equivalent to looking down upon people who count with their 
fingertips, the lowest of the low-tech lot, a few notches below the 
logarithmatic-table users. We tried to turn the tables by laughing at their 
drawing skills. But they knew how to put us even further down: They told us 
that they will always have draftsmen ( I don't remember hearing of draftswomen) 
to do their dirty work, while we shall remain pencil-pushers for ever. That was 
really below the below the belt, and it hurt. 
 
 
 Enough about my sad stories.
 
 
 On the fools'-rush front, I won't hold anyone guilty of crimes that I 
routinely commit. So rest easy there also.
 
 
 By now if you are beginning to fret about   all the nicey-nice leader to this 
response and wondering if I am about spring a tripper on you, relax there too. 
I don't have anything tricky up my sleeve this morning. 
 
 
 All I ask is WHAT exactly were you and your cheering section, ably led by 
Krishendu,  trying to prove or disprove ? Once I get a bearing on that, I will 
be pleased to share my thoughts.
 
 
 Take care.
 
 
 c-da
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 At 9:16 AM -0600 7/28/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
 C'da   Being a non-engineer, and susori-musori pass kora individual, I may not 
be qualified to comment in this high-flying math/engg. debate - but 
nevertheless, I will try... you know, fools rush in where angelsOne, 
is it is generally recognized that Indian graduating from Indian schools are 
good in math/science. Not because they boast about it, but because they just 
are. There are extremely bright people there.  Most of the people who have been 
a big success in this and other countries have had their fundas from India, 
and most Assamese from the Engg. colleges in Assam, and education in cotton or 
GU or DU.Second, you charge that because you don't see contributions from 
these people in India, then obviously these graduates are Not creative etc.   
It is possible that even though these Indians may be creative and intelligent, 
but may NOT be willing or are not able to contribute to societies they came 
from. Maybe, they came to the USA to make more money (read
 better opportunities). While, I do not think there is anything wrong with 
that, let us realize that  there are many many people in India who are just as 
capabale or better than immigrants to the US and who have contributed to 
Indian's growth and development.Third, if these people were not creative in 
India, how is it that these very same people with the basic fundamentals from 
India have suddenly become creative here? Did they suddenly sprout wings?
Lastly, (and I may the loner here) - Math  science are great, but let us not 
put down other branches. There are many world leaders (Kennedy/Gandhi/Nehru 
etc) who have come from non-science, non-tech backgrounds, but have been 
instrumental in development and broad visions for their countrues.If it 
wasn't for Nehru, many today would NOT have gone to the IITs. Yes, those same 
IITs that have enabled many to build careers in the US and in India. Yes, those 
same IITs that have built the very foundations that they so
 easily rubbish today.If it wasn't for JFK, man may not have gone to the 
moon. A country needs visionaries, just like it needs bright people from every 
other branch.   More later
  --Ram   On 7/28/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 By this logic, with so many successful Indian
Engineers and Scientists in US and other countries the
primary math 

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Mridul Bhuyan]

As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative or not 
makes any difference. Regarding most of the engineering jobs in India, except 
in a few cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :)
   
  Mridul Bhuyan

Dilip/Dil Deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Umesh,
  Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer should be 
good in math, just to survive in the field. The design engineers need to know 
what is behind the softwares they use now a days to solve engineering problems.
  There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute without 
being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 30+ years in the 
field, including management of engineers, I should know something about 
engineers by now.
  A request to engineers in India - please speak up.
  Dilipda

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high school 
levele - not at an engineering college.

***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it 

Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, 
Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math is 
used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math helps 
students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in high school helps 
engineering students as well, across the board.  


  *** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound primary 
education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you look at the 
percentage of students in Assam who have a decent knowledge of math 
fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in science, technology etc.
  

  But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it .
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  


  Dilip  ==

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html

Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
-
Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up 
for your free account today.___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
  
  
___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org  

___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org



Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C. 

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/ 
-
  Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, easy 
and free. Do it now...

___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org


   
-
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Chan Mahanta]

My bad. I meant to quote:  - I don't know about the nation building part.



 Most engineers that I know would cringe at being given that responsibilty. 



*** Engineers who have changed the face of the world, did not do so 
out of an obligation for nation building. That was a result of what 
they CREATED , produced.




and those individuals are remembered.



*** I was not referring to who gets to be remembered for what. Credit 
taking or giving is a whole different field and not always either 
truthful or honorable. But  what has been created, developed, 
produced is in front of us, everywhere.  What has India to show for 
--- with its half century of  engineering training? How have India's 
engineers contributed to solving its problems? And how creatively? 
Surely they are no less talented than anyone else in the world.






At 8:54 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:

Distortion already. Look below.


Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

At 8:10 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:


 However they are not the people who build nations,


DD:  I did not say that. You picked up something from what you wrote 
and made it look like I said it.


Engineers can be and have been nation builders but that is not 
something the average engineer wants to be. The ratio probably comes 
out to be the same for all professions. When the infrastructure of a 
young nation is being built, the engineers are in the forefront, as 
it happened in USA and the other countries you mentioned and those 
individuals are remembered.


*** American nation building has been singularly influenced by 
creative engineering.  As was
Germany, as was the Soviet Union and as is Japan, as is China.  But 
look at India's progress with more per capita engineers than many of 
these other more advanced countries.








 break new grounds or solve problems in creative ways. - I don't 
know about the nation building part. Most engineers that I know 
would cringe at being given that responsibilty. The other two - 
yes, engineers, architects and planners can contribute a lot.





I am glad to see that the contribution of engineers is being 
recognized here. What does engineer Mukulda say?


Dilip

==

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I should know something about engineers by now.



*** I wouldn't be the one to question that. Yes there is room for 
all those engineers, whose contribution is defined by an ability to 
read the standards manuals or code books and applying them to the 
task in hand.



However they are not the people who build nations, break new grounds 
or solve problems in creative ways.










At 7:32 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:


Umesh,

Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer 
should be good in math, just to survive in the field. The design 
engineers need to know what is behind the softwares they use now a 
days to solve engineering problems.


There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute 
without being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 
30+ years in the field, including management of engineers, I should 
know something about engineers by now.


A request to engineers in India - please speak up.

Dilipda

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high 
school levele - not at an engineering college.


***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of 
itself, does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One 
can do well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just 
as engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering 
also requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools 
rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability 
or have the aptitude to develop it


Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:

Netters with interest in science will find this article 
interesting. Math is used in all sciences, so obviously good 
fundamental knowledge in math helps students in all branches of 
science. A good grasp of math in high school helps engineering 
students as well, across the board.





*** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound 
primary education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you 
look at the percentage of students in Assam who have a decent 
knowledge of math fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in 
science, technology etc.



But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, 
does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do 
well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just as 
engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering also 
requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools rarely 
help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability or have 
the aptitude to develop it 

[Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Krishnendu Chakraborty]

Can you cite India's contributions to it?


Yes  Chandan Mahanta :)


  If your primary math 
foundation is weak, you will never get to do intensive
math at high 
school, forget science and engineering.


By this logic, with so many successful Indian
Engineers and Scientists in US and other countries the
primary math foundation laid by Indian School system
must be excellent.  




   

Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. 
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469

___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Ram Sarangapani]

C'da

Being a non-engineer, and susori-musori pass kora individual, I may not be
qualified to comment in this high-flying math/engg. debate - but
nevertheless, I will try... you know, fools rush in where angels

One, is it is generally recognized that Indian graduating from Indian
schools are good in math/science. Not because they boast about it, but
because they just are. There are extremely bright people there.
Most of the people who have been a big success in this and other countries
have had their fundas from India, and most Assamese from the Engg.
colleges in Assam, and education in cotton or GU or DU.

Second, you charge that because you don't see contributions from these
people in India, then obviously these graduates are Not creative etc.

It is possible that even though these Indians may be creative and
intelligent, but may NOT be willing or are not able to contribute to
societies they came from. Maybe, they came to the USA to make more money
(read better opportunities).
While, I do not think there is anything wrong with that, let us realize
that  there are many many people in India who are just as capabale or better
than immigrants to the US and who have contributed to Indian's growth and
development.

Third, if these people were not creative in India, how is it that these very
same people with the basic fundamentals from India have suddenly become
creative here? Did they suddenly sprout wings?

Lastly, (and I may the loner here) - Math  science are great, but let us
not put down other branches. There are many world leaders
(Kennedy/Gandhi/Nehru etc) who have come from non-science, non-tech
backgrounds, but have been instrumental in development and broad visions for
their countrues.

If it wasn't for Nehru, many today would NOT have gone to the IITs. Yes,
those same IITs that have enabled many to build careers in the US and in
India. Yes, those same IITs that have built the very foundations that they
so easily rubbish today.

If it wasn't for JFK, man may not have gone to the moon. A country needs
visionaries, just like it needs bright people from every other branch.

More later

--Ram

On 7/28/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 By this logic, with so many successful Indian
 Engineers and Scientists in US and other countries the
 primary math foundation laid by Indian School system
 must be excellent.


 *** Can you cite some statistics, or even educated guesses on how 
 many successful Indian
 Engineers and Scientists in US and other countries are there, and
 what percentage is that of :

 A: Total number of scientists and engineers produced by India?

 B: Total number of people of the demographics of which these are a
 segment and how the rest are doing ?


 C: HOW these successful products of an 'excellent' Indian education
 system have contributed to India's well being?

 D: How the rest of the 'excellent' Indian education system have
 contributed to India's well being?








 At 6:36 AM -0700 7/28/07, Krishnendu Chakraborty wrote:
   Can you cite India's contributions to it?
 
 
 Yes  Chandan Mahanta :)
 
 
If your primary math
 foundation is weak, you will never get to do intensive
 math at high
 school, forget science and engineering.
 
 By this logic, with so many successful Indian
 Engineers and Scientists in US and other countries the
 primary math foundation laid by Indian School system
 must be excellent.
 
 
 
 
 

 
 Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who
 knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
 http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469
 
 ___
 assam mailing list
 assam@assamnet.org
 http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org


 ___
 assam mailing list
 assam@assamnet.org
 http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org

___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Krishnendu Chakraborty]

Excellent Ram'da 

C'da ,  let us know if you need any further statistics
.

However,  for the following question, I guess you are
in a better position to answer

 C: HOW these successful products of an
 'excellent' Indian education
  system have contributed to India's well being?


You being a successfull product (that is if you
consider yourself to be successful) of Indian
education system (your fundamentals were in Namoti,
DonBosco, IIT if I am not wrong)  what have you
contributed to India's (or Assam's) well being.  By
your own admission earlier, you do not even have the
time (or will ??) to contribute to your alma mater in
Namoti.


As a matter of fact,  to see how these
Engineers/Scientists/Educationists/Leaders are
contributing to India just see India's GDP as well as
the current trend of reverse Brain Drain.  Yes there
are still problem areas (where not??) but India,
irrespective of what you say or do, is making good
progress.  



--- Ram Sarangapani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 C'da
 
 Being a non-engineer, and susori-musori pass kora
 individual, I may not be
 qualified to comment in this high-flying math/engg.
 debate - but
 nevertheless, I will try... you know, fools rush in
 where angels
 
 One, is it is generally recognized that Indian
 graduating from Indian
 schools are good in math/science. Not because they
 boast about it, but
 because they just are. There are extremely bright
 people there.
 Most of the people who have been a big success in
 this and other countries
 have had their fundas from India, and most
 Assamese from the Engg.
 colleges in Assam, and education in cotton or GU or
 DU.
 
 Second, you charge that because you don't see
 contributions from these
 people in India, then obviously these graduates are
 Not creative etc.
 
 It is possible that even though these Indians may be
 creative and
 intelligent, but may NOT be willing or are not able
 to contribute to
 societies they came from. Maybe, they came to the
 USA to make more money
 (read better opportunities).
 While, I do not think there is anything wrong with
 that, let us realize
 that  there are many many people in India who are
 just as capabale or better
 than immigrants to the US and who have contributed
 to Indian's growth and
 development.
 
 Third, if these people were not creative in India,
 how is it that these very
 same people with the basic fundamentals from India
 have suddenly become
 creative here? Did they suddenly sprout wings?
 
 Lastly, (and I may the loner here) - Math  science
 are great, but let us
 not put down other branches. There are many world
 leaders
 (Kennedy/Gandhi/Nehru etc) who have come from
 non-science, non-tech
 backgrounds, but have been instrumental in
 development and broad visions for
 their countrues.
 
 If it wasn't for Nehru, many today would NOT have
 gone to the IITs. Yes,
 those same IITs that have enabled many to build
 careers in the US and in
 India. Yes, those same IITs that have built the very
 foundations that they
 so easily rubbish today.
 
 If it wasn't for JFK, man may not have gone to the
 moon. A country needs
 visionaries, just like it needs bright people from
 every other branch.
 
 More later
 
 --Ram
 
 On 7/28/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
  By this logic, with so many successful Indian
  Engineers and Scientists in US and other countries
 the
  primary math foundation laid by Indian School
 system
  must be excellent.
 
 
  *** Can you cite some statistics, or even educated
 guesses on how 
  many successful Indian
  Engineers and Scientists in US and other
 countries are there, and
  what percentage is that of :
 
  A: Total number of scientists and engineers
 produced by India?
 
  B: Total number of people of the demographics of
 which these are a
  segment and how the rest are doing ?
 
 
  C: HOW these successful products of an
 'excellent' Indian education
  system have contributed to India's well being?
 
  D: How the rest of the 'excellent' Indian
 education system have
  contributed to India's well being?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  At 6:36 AM -0700 7/28/07, Krishnendu Chakraborty
 wrote:
Can you cite India's contributions to it?
  
  
  Yes  Chandan Mahanta :)
  
  
 If your primary math
  foundation is weak, you will never get to do
 intensive
  math at high
  school, forget science and engineering.
  
  By this logic, with so many successful Indian
  Engineers and Scientists in US and other
 countries the
  primary math foundation laid by Indian School
 system
  must be excellent.
  
  
  
  
  
 
 


  Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel
 answers from someone who
  knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
 

http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469
  
  ___
  assam mailing list
  assam@assamnet.org
 

http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
 
 
  

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[mc mahant]

May I chip in?
generally recognized that Indian graduating from Indian schools are good in 
math/science  Wrong Notions.
because they just are  maybe in the eyes of SOME Innocentsthen obviously 
these graduates are Not creative etc.There goes Ram and his Political Science 
Deductions!
but may NOT be willing  Actually the Desi-Demokrasy +Hero Worshiping 
Cult***numbs all creativity and demands thereto.  ***e.g.world leaders 
(Kennedy/Gandhi/Nehru +GWB+Laloo?
India have suddenly become creative here  or have they become good/faithful  
code conforming detailers?
Nehru CONCEIVED IIT's?  We were told  in'53 that US embassy offered to equip 
-thro,UNESCO..an MIT-like Tech Instt  with Faculty+Gear+Library from 
US--.And 6years later USSR added Powai-the WGermansGuindy..
so easily rubbish today .Nobody Rubbishes--Only Pities all the 
Knowledge-pickup totally wasted--Not IIT faculties' fault!!
If it wasn't for JFK... Before the end of this Decade..To put Americans on 
the Moonand  to bring them back safely to Earth..I did listen  this live 
from VOA in  '62 . He only parroted NASA.
 
 A country needs visionaries Ram-you hit the Bull's eye  this time.You can be 
a visionary only through Maths/Science/Technology  Or through 
Lenin/Mao/Ho-Chi-Minh/Pol-Pot/Gorbachev/Castro- like thinkers .
Failures are the pillars of Success. Somebody in the Regime ought to demand a 
fresh BE from JEC to design Bogibeel Bridge  A to Z and build it to Work.You 
should Scrap all past designs/Norms. You should have Competition Designs for 
minimizing Men,Materials,Times,costs. 
India has not  designed/built a racing/Tour-de-France bicycle yet.NK has flown 
ICBM's. They produce 4% of India's Engineers
mm
 
 


Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 09:16:50 -0600From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]: assam@assamnet.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [Assam] Math First: 
Harvard  UVa study on college science success

C'da
 
Being a non-engineer, and susori-musori pass kora individual, I may not be 
qualified to comment in this high-flying math/engg. debate - but nevertheless, 
I will try... you know, fools rush in where angels 
 
One, is it is generally recognized that Indian graduating from Indian schools 
are good in math/science. Not because they boast about it, but because they 
just are. There are extremely bright people there.
Most of the people who have been a big success in this and other countries have 
had their fundas from India, and most Assamese from the Engg. colleges in 
Assam, and education in cotton or GU or DU.
 
Second, you charge that because you don't see contributions from these people 
in India, then obviously these graduates are Not creative etc.
 
It is possible that even though these Indians may be creative and intelligent, 
but may NOT be willing or are not able to contribute to
societies they came from. Maybe, they came to the USA to make more money (read 
better opportunities). 
While, I do not think there is anything wrong with that, let us realize that  
there are many many people in India who are just as capabale or better than 
immigrants to the US and who have contributed to Indian's growth and 
development. 
 
Third, if these people were not creative in India, how is it that these very 
same people with the basic fundamentals from India have suddenly become 
creative here? Did they suddenly sprout wings?
 
Lastly, (and I may the loner here) - Math  science are great, but let us not 
put down other branches. There are many world leaders (Kennedy/Gandhi/Nehru 
etc) who have come from non-science, non-tech backgrounds, but have been 
instrumental in development and broad visions for their countrues. 
 
If it wasn't for Nehru, many today would NOT have gone to the IITs. Yes, those 
same IITs that have enabled many to build careers in the US and in India. Yes, 
those same IITs that have built the very foundations that they so easily 
rubbish today. 
 
If it wasn't for JFK, man may not have gone to the moon. A country needs 
visionaries, just like it needs bright people from every other branch.
 
More later 
--Ram
 
On 7/28/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
By this logic, with so many successful IndianEngineers and Scientists in US 
and other countries the primary math foundation laid by Indian School 
systemmust be excellent.*** Can you cite some statistics, or even educated 
guesses on how many successful IndianEngineers and Scientists in US and other 
countries are there, and what percentage is that of :A: Total number of 
scientists and engineers produced by India?B: Total number of people of the 
demographics of which these are asegment and how the rest are doing ?C: HOW 
these successful products of an 'excellent' Indian educationsystem have 
contributed to India's well being?D: How the rest of the 'excellent' Indian 
education system have contributed to India's well being?At 6:36 AM -0700 
7/28/07, Krishnendu Chakraborty wrote:  Can you cite India's contributions 
to it?Yes  Chandan

[Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[umesh sharma]

http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html

Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C. 

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep  (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
   
-
 Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for 
your freeaccount today.___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Dilip/Dil Deka]

Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math is 
used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math helps 
students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in high school helps 
engineering students as well, across the board.
  Dilip
  ==

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html

Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C. 

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
-
  Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up 
for your free account today.___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org

___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Chan Mahanta]

At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. 
Math is used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental 
knowledge in math helps students in all branches of science. A good 
grasp of math in high school helps engineering students as well, 
across the board.



*** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound 
primary education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you 
look at the percentage of students in Assam who have a decent 
knowledge of math fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in 
science, technology etc.


But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, 
does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do 
well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just as 
engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering also 
requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools rarely 
help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability or have 
the aptitude to develop it .



















Dilip
==

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html

Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/

Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, 
http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/winter07.htmlsign 
up for your free account 
today.___

assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org



___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[umesh sharma]

C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high school 
levele - not at an engineering college.

***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it 

Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard  UVa 
study on college sci At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
 Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math is 
used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math helps 
students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in high school helps 
engineering students as well, across the board. 
 
 
 *** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound primary 
education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you look at the 
percentage of students in Assam who have a decent knowledge of math 
fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in science, technology etc.
 

 But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it .
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 
 
 Dilip ==
 
 umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html
 
 Umesh Sharma
 
 Washington D.C.
 
 1-202-215-4328 [Cell]
 
 Ed.M. - International Education Policy
 Harvard Graduate School of Education,
 Harvard University,
 Class of 2005
 
 http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)
 
 http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)
 
 
 
 
 www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )
 
 
 
 
 http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/  
-
 Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for 
your free account today.___
 assam mailing list
 assam@assamnet.org
 http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
   
 
 ___
 assam mailing list
 assam@assamnet.org
 http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org 

 ___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org



Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C. 

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep  (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
   
-
 Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, easy 
and free. Do it now...___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Dilip/Dil Deka]

Umesh,
  Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer should be 
good in math, just to survive in the field. The design engineers need to know 
what is behind the softwares they use now a days to solve engineering problems.
  There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute without 
being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 30+ years in the 
field, including management of engineers, I should know something about 
engineers by now.
  A request to engineers in India - please speak up.
  Dilipda

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high school 
levele - not at an engineering college.

***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it 

Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, 
Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math is 
used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math helps 
students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in high school helps 
engineering students as well, across the board.  


  *** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound primary 
education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you look at the 
percentage of students in Assam who have a decent knowledge of math 
fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in science, technology etc.
  

  But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it .
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  


  Dilip  ==

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html

Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
-
Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up 
for your free account today.___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
  
  
___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org  

___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org



Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C. 

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
-
  Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, easy 
and free. Do it now...
___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Chan Mahanta]

Actually it has to be done at an earlier time--at primary school. By 
high school time it is already too late. If your primary math 
foundation is weak, you will never get to do intensive math at high 
school, forget science and engineering.







At 6:38 PM -0700 7/27/07, umesh sharma wrote:

C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high 
school levele - not at an engineering college.


***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of 
itself, does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One 
can do well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just 
as engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering 
also requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools 
rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability 
or have the aptitude to develop it


Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard  UVa study on college sci
At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:

Netters with interest in science will find this article 
interesting. Math is used in all sciences, so obviously good 
fundamental knowledge in math helps students in all branches of 
science. A good grasp of math in high school helps engineering 
students as well, across the board.





*** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound 
primary education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you 
look at the percentage of students in Assam who have a decent 
knowledge of math fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in 
science, technology etc.


But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, 
does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do 
well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just as 
engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering also 
requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools rarely 
help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability or have 
the aptitude to develop it .



















Dilip


==

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html

Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/


Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, 
http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/winter07.htmlsign 
up for your free account 
today.___

assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org



___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org


___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org




Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/



Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - 
quick, easy and free. 
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/uk/taglines/yahoo_com/trueswitch/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/trueswitch2.htmlDo 
it now...
___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Chan Mahanta]

I should know something about engineers by now.



*** I wouldn't be the one to question that. Yes there is room for all 
those engineers, whose contribution is defined by an ability to read 
the standards manuals or code books and applying them to the task in 
hand.


However they are not the people who build nations, break new grounds 
or solve problems in creative ways.









At 7:32 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:

Umesh,
Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer 
should be good in math, just to survive in the field. The design 
engineers need to know what is behind the softwares they use now a 
days to solve engineering problems.
There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute 
without being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 
30+ years in the field, including management of engineers, I should 
know something about engineers by now.

A request to engineers in India - please speak up.
Dilipda

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high 
school levele - not at an engineering college.


***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of 
itself, does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One 
can do well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just 
as engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering 
also requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools 
rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability 
or have the aptitude to develop it


Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:

Netters with interest in science will find this article 
interesting. Math is used in all sciences, so obviously good 
fundamental knowledge in math helps students in all branches of 
science. A good grasp of math in high school helps engineering 
students as well, across the board.





*** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound 
primary education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you 
look at the percentage of students in Assam who have a decent 
knowledge of math fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in 
science, technology etc.


But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, 
does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do 
well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just as 
engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering also 
requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools rarely 
help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability or have 
the aptitude to develop it .



















Dilip


==

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html

Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/


Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, 
http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/winter07.htmlsign 
up for your free account 
today.___

assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org



___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org


___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org




Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/

Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - 
quick, easy and free. 
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/uk/taglines/yahoo_com/trueswitch/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/trueswitch2.htmlDo 
it now...




___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Dilip/Dil Deka]

 However they are not the people who build nations, break new grounds or solve 
problems in creative ways. - I don't know about the nation building part. Most 
engineers that I know would cringe at being given that responsibilty. The other 
two - yes, engineers, architects and planners can contribute a lot.
   
  I am glad to see that the contribution of engineers is being recognized here. 
What does engineer Mukulda say?
  Dilip
  ==

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I should know something about engineers by now.
  

  

  *** I wouldn't be the one to question that. Yes there is room for all those 
engineers, whose contribution is defined by an ability to read the standards 
manuals or code books and applying them to the task in hand.
  

  However they are not the people who build nations, break new grounds or solve 
problems in creative ways.
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  At 7:32 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  Umesh,  Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer 
should be good in math, just to survive in the field. The design engineers need 
to know what is behind the softwares they use now a days to solve engineering 
problems.  There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute 
without being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 30+ years in 
the field, including management of engineers, I should know something about 
engineers by now.  A request to engineers in India - please speak up.  Dilipda

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high school 
levele - not at an engineering college.

***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it

Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math is 
used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math helps 
students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in high school helps 
engineering students as well, across the board.


  *** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound primary 
education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you look at the 
percentage of students in Assam who have a decent knowledge of math 
fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in science, technology etc.  
  But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it .  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  Dilip
  ==

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html

Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/

-
Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up 
for your free account today.___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
  
  
___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
  
  ___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
  


Umesh Sharma  
Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
-
Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, 
easy and free. Do it now...
  
  

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Chan Mahanta]

At 8:10 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:

 However they are not the people who build nations,




*** American nation building has been singularly influenced by 
creative engineering.  As was
Germany, as was the Soviet Union and as is Japan, as is China.  But 
look at India's progress with more per capita engineers than many of 
these other more advanced countries.








 break new grounds or solve problems in creative ways. - I don't 
know about the nation building part. Most engineers that I know 
would cringe at being given that responsibilty. The other two - 
yes, engineers, architects and planners can contribute a lot.


I am glad to see that the contribution of engineers is being 
recognized here. What does engineer Mukulda say?

Dilip
==

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I should know something about engineers by now.


*** I wouldn't be the one to question that. Yes there is room for 
all those engineers, whose contribution is defined by an ability to 
read the standards manuals or code books and applying them to the 
task in hand.


However they are not the people who build nations, break new grounds 
or solve problems in creative ways.









At 7:32 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:


Umesh,

Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer 
should be good in math, just to survive in the field. The design 
engineers need to know what is behind the softwares they use now a 
days to solve engineering problems.


There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute 
without being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 
30+ years in the field, including management of engineers, I should 
know something about engineers by now.


A request to engineers in India - please speak up.

Dilipda

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high 
school levele - not at an engineering college.


***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of 
itself, does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One 
can do well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just 
as engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering 
also requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools 
rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability 
or have the aptitude to develop it


Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:

Netters with interest in science will find this article 
interesting. Math is used in all sciences, so obviously good 
fundamental knowledge in math helps students in all branches of 
science. A good grasp of math in high school helps engineering 
students as well, across the board.





*** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound 
primary education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you 
look at the percentage of students in Assam who have a decent 
knowledge of math fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in 
science, technology etc.



But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, 
does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do 
well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just as 
engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering also 
requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools rarely 
help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability or have 
the aptitude to develop it .




















Dilip


==

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html

Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/


Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, 
http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/winter07.htmlsign 
up for your free account 
today.___

assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org



___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org


___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org




Umesh Sharma


Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management 

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Dilip/Dil Deka]

I guess you have not met too many of the graduate engineers from India 
recently. Many of them ( not too many)  are very capable of solving engineering 
problems using the modern tools that are available these days. it is especially 
true in chemical engineering and control systems engineering where it requires 
math skills as well as a good understanding of the basic physical problem.
   
  However when it comes to the 30,000 ft level, to solve India's flood and 
drought problem and India's food storage and distribution problem etc. - I 
don't think the engineers in India are being creative enough to tackle the 
problem at the roots.
   
  Back to your email - no undergraduate engineering school (not even in USA) 
prepares a student to be truly creative. A few more years in grad school does.
   
  I was surprised to see that you are talking about  something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop which goes to show that you are still 
thinking Indian for Assam in your unguarded moments. :-)
  Dilip
  

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math is 
used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math helps 
students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in high school helps 
engineering students as well, across the board.  


  *** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound primary 
education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you look at the 
percentage of students in Assam who have a decent knowledge of math 
fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in science, technology etc.
  

  But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it .
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  


  Dilip  ==

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html

Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
-
Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up 
for your free account today.___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
  
  
___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org  

___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org

___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org

Re: [Assam] Math First: Harvard UVa study on college science success

[Dilip/Dil Deka]

Distortion already. Look below.
  

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 8:10 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
 However they are not the people who build nations,
   
  DD:  I did not say that. You picked up something from what you wrote and made 
it look like I said it. 
   
  Engineers can be and have been nation builders but that is not something the 
average engineer wants to be. The ratio probably comes out to be the same for 
all professions. When the infrastructure of a young nation is being built, the 
engineers are in the forefront, as it happened in USA and the other countries 
you mentioned and those individuals are remembered. 
  *** American nation building has been singularly influenced by creative 
engineering.  As was
  Germany, as was the Soviet Union and as is Japan, as is China.  But look at 
India's progress with more per capita engineers than many of  these other more 
advanced countries.
  

  

  

  

  

  


   break new grounds or solve problems in creative ways. - I don't know about 
the nation building part. Most engineers that I know would cringe at being 
given that responsibilty. The other two - yes, engineers, architects and 
planners can contribute a lot. I am glad to see that the contribution of 
engineers is being recognized here. What does engineer Mukulda say?  Dilip  
==

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I should know something about engineers by now.  
  
  *** I wouldn't be the one to question that. Yes there is room for all those 
engineers, whose contribution is defined by an ability to read the standards 
manuals or code books and applying them to the task in hand.  
  However they are not the people who build nations, break new grounds or solve 
problems in creative ways.  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  At 7:32 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  Umesh,
Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer should be 
good in math, just to survive in the field. The design engineers need to know 
what is behind the softwares they use now a days to solve engineering problems.
  There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute without 
being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 30+ years in the 
field, including management of engineers, I should know something about 
engineers by now.
  A request to engineers in India - please speak up.
  Dilipda

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  C-da,

But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high school 
levele - not at an engineering college.

***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it

Umesh

Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math is 
used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math helps 
students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in high school helps 
engineering students as well, across the board.


  *** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound primary 
education where math fundamentals  take root or die. If you look at the 
percentage of students in Assam who have a decent knowledge of math 
fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in science, technology etc.
  
  But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not 
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic 
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other 
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian 
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an 
ability or have the aptitude to develop it .
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  Dilip
  ==

umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html

Umesh Sharma

Washington D.C.

1-202-215-4328 [Cell]

Ed.M. - International Education Policy  Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005

http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)




www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )




http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/

-
Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up 
for your free account today.___
assam mailing