[Assam] ULFA reply to Kamal Deka
Hounorable Netters, By suggesting that the ULFA members are cave dwellers, Dr. Kamal Deka seems to have taken the opportunity to highlight that he lives in Texas. His wording in the relevant mail is speaking that loud enough. There is no doubt that he has the required qualification to work abroad and earning a lot of money. As ULFA members home is Asom rather than Texas or New York, their lives are akin to cave dwellers as perceived by Kamal Deka. Therefore, he thinks that these cave dwellers are unable to understand and appreciate what is Sovereign independence. Consequently there is no point of having a plebiscite to end the Asom-India conflict peacefully. Asking for a plebiscite in his eyes is likened to a child demanding the moon! Hence, he has not offered any definitive idea for a solution. We do not think that he has an answer how to bring in the resolution to the conflict. But we would like to say that by bringing in the idea of autonomy he is skillfully diverting the focus from a true solution to a non-solution. During the freedom struggle against the imperialist British colonialists such educated class of people tried to derail the rise ups. He is an incarnation with the same mentality. Members and visitors to the AssamNet must have noticed his disdain by commenting the ULFA as Cave dwellers and in contrast raising his profile as an educated successful person. But he has not indicated of his contribution, if any, in resolving the national problem of Asom. Apart from making his life in America, if he has done anything for Asom and her people we do not know. It is not clear if he understands his servitude to America by offering his brain and skill for riches. In our opinion he is a so-called educated person without social and political insight, wanting to be an arm-chair revolutionary. Dr. Deka perhaps has never read the poem Soha aru pondit, r Sohoror odurot asil ejon soha nam tar jurmon Bara. Despite his expressed unhelpful views, we would urge him to get involve within his limitations for the emancipation of the oppressed and exploited majority of Asom Rubi Bhuyan Central publicity member,ULFA Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:00:41 -0500 kamal deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] assam@assamnet.org Rubi Bhuyan and the people of his/her ilk must be living in a cave,totally detached from the ground realities of Assam.They are merely prodding at the body of ' sovereignty' without knowing what it is all about---like children at a new toy in the market showroom.Rubi Bhuyan's point of view expressed in the Assam Net is of no consequence as far as I am concerned. I respectfully disagree with Mr.Nayanjyoti Medhi's opinion,voiced in this forum in regard to holding a plebiscite in Assam focusing solely on the sovereignty issue as demanded by the ULFA,who are itching to break-up a 60-year-old kaleidoscopic federation.Why do we have to hold a referendum,buckling under the pressure of an outfit that has been outlawed by the Government ? Is Assam an exclusive preserve of the ULFA ? The right to self-determination,if allowed in Assam,would then be reduced to a series of voting exorcises,conducted every 10 years or so in order to meet the demand of the new generation,at whose whim the border of a country could be defined and redefined.It will not be very difficult to imagine the chaos,it would create in a polyglot,multi-ethnic and multi-religious state as Assam's,if such recipe were to be applied state-wide as a solution. Kamal J Deka sugarland,Texas. - Nervous about who has your email address? Yahoo! Mail can help you win the war against spam.___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] ULFA reply to Kamal Deka
It would have been complete tomfoolery on my part if I had expected a meaningful reply from the ' mouth organ ' of an outlawed organisation who even doesn't know how to differentiate between figurative language and literal meaning ( living in cave ).Anyone even with a modicum of brain would understand that. Yes,I live in Texas.That does not mean that I should not be allowed to care for Assam---a state,I hold so dear. What constructive works have you all done save carrying out gory pogrom in order to mow down innocent unarmed civilians including children and women ? But then,I should not expect anything good coming out of an outfit, whose credo has been to rule with guns and rods,shutting out dissents by death. KJD On 10/15/07, ulfa_ 1979April7 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hounorable Netters,structive By suggesting that the ULFA members are cave dwellers, Dr. Kamal Deka seems to have taken the opportunity to highlight that he lives in Texas. His wording in the relevant mail is speaking that loud enough. There is no doubt that he has the required qualification to work abroad and earning a lot of money. As ULFA members home is Asom rather than Texas or New York, their lives are akin to cave dwellers as perceived by Kamal Deka. Therefore, he thinks that these cave dwellers are unable to understand and appreciate what is Sovereign independence. Consequently there is no point of having a plebiscite to end the Asom-India conflict peacefully. Asking for a plebiscite in his eyes is likened to a child demanding the moon! Hence, he has not offered any definitive idea for a solution. We do not think that he has an answer how to bring in the resolution to the conflict. But we would like to say that by bringing in the idea of autonomy he is skillfully diverting the focus from a true solution to a non-solution. During the freedom struggle against the imperialist British colonialists such educated class of people tried to derail the rise ups. He is an incarnation with the same mentality. Members and visitors to the AssamNet must have noticed his disdain by commenting the ULFA as 'Cave dwellers' and in contrast raising his profile as an educated successful person. But he has not indicated of his contribution, if any, in resolving the national problem of Asom. Apart from making his life in America, if he has done anything for Asom and her people we do not know. It is not clear if he understands his servitude to America by offering his brain and skill for riches. In our opinion he is a so-called educated person without social and political insight, wanting to be an arm-chair revolutionary. Dr. Deka perhaps has never read the poem 'Soha aru pondit, r Sohoror odurot asil ejon soha nam tar jurmon Bara'. Despite his expressed unhelpful views, we would urge him to get involve within his limitations for the emancipation of the oppressed and exploited majority of Asom Rubi Bhuyan Central publicity member,ULFA Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:00:41 -0500 kamal deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] assam@assamnet.org Rubi Bhuyan and the people of his/her ilk must be living in a cave,totally detached from the ground realities of Assam.They are merely prodding at the body of ' *sovereignty'* without knowing what it is all about---like children at a new toy in the market showroom.Rubi Bhuyan's point of view expressed in the Assam Net is of no consequence as far as I am concerned. I respectfully disagree with Mr.Nayanjyoti Medhi's opinion,voiced in this forum in regard to holding a plebiscite in Assam focusing solely on the sovereignty issue as demanded by the ULFA,who are itching to break-up a 60-year-old kaleidoscopic federation.Why do we have to hold a referendum,buckling under the pressure of an outfit that has been outlawed by the Government ? Is Assam an exclusive preserve of the ULFA ? The right to self-determination,if allowed in Assam,would then be reduced to a series of voting exorcises,conducted every 10 years or so in order to meet the demand of the new generation,at whose whim the border of a country could be defined and redefined.It will not be very difficult to imagine the chaos,it would create in a polyglot,multi-ethnic and multi-religious state as Assam's,if such recipe were to be applied state-wide as a solution. Kamal J Deka sugarland,Texas. -- Nervous about who has your email address? Yahoo! Mailhttp://us.rd.yahoo.com/mailuk/taglines/gmail/war_spam/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48525/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/addressguard2.htmlcan help you win the war against spam. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] ULFA REPLY
Chandanda, In my humble opinion,it is the system of governance in Assam that needs overhauling in toto.Moreover,to all intents and purposes,sovereignty is an unattainable goal.Why chase wild goose ? Sovereignty will not be able to cast any magic spell in the over-all development of Assam unless there is a sea-change in the system of governance,currently in place out there.Hope,I have made some sense. Kamal ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] ULFA REPLY
At 8:28 PM -0500 10/15/07, kamal deka wrote: Chandanda, In my humble opinion,it is the system of governance in Assam that needs overhauling in toto. I agree wholeheartedly Kamal. I also know you are one of a very few in this forum who realizes that. That brings the question of HOW Assam will accomplish that? Or for that matter India? Had India demonstrated an ability to address the issues that have been spawning insurgencies , rebellions or whatsmacallits across the length and breadth of its boundaries, it won't be in the mess it is in. Moreover,to all intents and purposes,sovereignty is an unattainable goal.Why chase wild goose ? That, Kamal I don't agree with. For a simple reason: Humanity would not be where it is today, if others before us had given up without a struggle. Sovereignty will not be able to cast any magic spell in the over-all development of Assam unless there is a sea-change in the system of governance,currently in place out there. Kamal, you have to be realistic: Sovereignty is only a first step. It is not the end. It became essential, ONLY because of India's incapability or unwillingness or both to respond to its constituents' crying needs. You cannot depend on India for anything, other than to bribe your leaders into submission. But it controls ALL the significant powers of state while professing to be a federal republic. A more bald-faced lie I cannot imagine. Truth is they don't even KNOW the meaning of the words they speak. Just look at our own forum here. Hope,I have made some sense. You do indeed make a whole lot more sense most amongst are willing or have the courage to admit. But that is NOT enough Kamal. c-da Kamal ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] ULFA reply
*But here Nayan makes a very curious claim: That *I*, cm, have not done anything, like his govt., to bring peace to Assam. Do *I*, a foreigner, have either the resources, or the responsibility to do, ANYTHING at all for him or his state? By C Da I meant ULFA. Why I meant that should be clear to everyone. Nayan On 10/14/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: O' kamal: kaleidoscopic federation. WHAT exactly is this K-fed Bapa? Are you suggesting Assam is in charge of its own destiny, making use of its best of human resources , with controls over its natural resources? Does this FED you are alluding to allow Assam to bring its best out to take care of itself? That it polity is independent? That it has controls over its finances? What kind of a voodoo federation are you speaking of? Does it really exist or is it merely a figment of some kharkhowa imagination steeped in 'bhangor jaal' ( cannabis induced torpor) :-)? Those who, on the one hand claim that Oxomiyas do not want any part of sovereignty, but on the other hand oppose a plebiscite to determine if it really is so, obviously are incapable of realizing that those who are observing silently are a bunch of morons, who can't put two ands two together to figure out what it amounts to. That, Kamal, is a highly tenuous proposition if you asked me. Infact I have gone on record saying that I am disgusted with both the Government and you (see my reply to C Da's post) because neither has done anything for peace and progress of Assam (I have not seen any results in 28 years, I have become a man from 4 months old baby). *** I agree that Nayan is one of a very few, who had the courage of his convictions to support a plebiscite., even though he slinked back to the cave he came out of when I challenged him to put his nmoney where his mouth is and raise his voice in support of a plebiscite. Instead of accepting the challenge, he put me , in his own words, ignore list, declaring he won't answer my questions. I can't imagine why, heh-heh . But here Nayan makes a very curious claim: That *I*, cm, have not done anything, like his govt., to bring peace to Assam. Do *I*, a foreigner, have either the resources, or the responsibility to do, ANYTHING at all for him or his state? Tell you what Nayan, you need to go back to your law-college texts and see if you can figure that out., about MY responsibilities here. What I do is out of the goodness of my heart :-), not because I owe you or your ilk anything. Further down I noticed that Nayan exhorted Rubi to ---Please ask Chandan Da not to barge in and write a hilarious reply to what i have written coz i won't reply then. That , by itself is quite hilarious. Does Nayan think that I have been prompting Rubi surreptitiously? And he still has not figured this out, even though I explained it in so many words: That I don't need his permission, like he does not need mine, to BARGE IN on any debate or discussion in progress in this forum. Looks like, among other things, Nayan is also afflicted with a learning disability. But , (sigh!!!) he is not alone here. I have become a man from 4 months old baby That, I must give Nayan credit for, considering that he overcame such an impossible hurdle faced by so few men :-). I don't know Nayan---you don't learn , do you? But I am 62 and patient, unlike SH. I hope you will learn, one of these years. c -da At 9:00 PM -0500 10/13/07, kamal deka wrote: Rubi Bhuyan and the people of his/her ilk must be living in a cave,totally detached from the ground realities of Assam.They are merely prodding at the body of ' *sovereignty'* without knowing what it is all about---like children at a new toy in the market showroom.Rubi Bhuyan's point of view expressed in the Assam Net is of no consequence as far as I am concerned. I respectfully disagree with Mr.Nayanjyoti Medhi's opinion,voiced in this forum in regard to holding a plebiscite in Assam focusing solely on the sovereignty issue as demanded by the ULFA,who are itching to break-up a 60-year-old kaleidoscopic federation.Why do we have to hold a referendum,buckling under the pressure of an outfit that has been outlawed by the Government ? Is Assam an exclusive preserve of the ULFA ? The right to self-determination,if allowed in Assam,would then be reduced to a series of voting exorcises,conducted every 10 years or so in order to meet the demand of the new generation,at whose whim the border of a country could be defined and redefined.It will not be very difficult to imagine the chaos,it would create in a polyglot,multi-ethnic and multi-religious state as Assam's,if such recipe were to be applied state-wide as a solution. Kamal J Deka sugarland,Texas. On 10/13/07,* Nayanjyoti Medhi* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Rubi, I thought since you have been following my postings in Assam online
Re: [Assam] ULFA reply
At 11:49 PM -0500 10/13/07, kamal deka wrote: The GOI has similarly been willing to hold parleys with ULFA in order to hammer out a solution within the ambit of the Constitution.What is wrong with that ? KJD It is a surreal proposition, that's what. Its like asking, 'Please come let us talk, but not about what you have been fighting for'. Is that a deal-maker or what ? On 10/13/07, Chan Mahanta mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The big vacuum of reason here I see is this: IF, Assam's OWNERS, I mean other those who sit in Dilli , so wish for an end to hostilities and can't figure out HOW, and if ULFA, the villains, declare that they will abide by the verdict of the people for whose sovereignty they gave nearly 15,000 Oxomiya lives over 29 years, then would it NOT make eminent sense to hold one? What am I missing here? Would it be sincerity of purpose ( of a hope for peace), or is that yet another display , albeit unintended, attempt to to have it both ways? At 3:57 AM +0100 10/14/07, uttam borthakur wrote: Living in a cave does not exclude the yearning or formation of wisdom as Plato would ask us to believe. The right to self-determination should not be denied to any people. But the question is: how the stage is to be assessed where a plebiscite becomes imperative. Simply because ULFA says that, should it be held? That NSCN or other outfits have claimed parts of the present Assam, should a plebiscite be held for that purpose in the disputed areas? In that case there would be no end to plebiscite and that is a very impractical thing. Then we will have to divide Assam to the size of the city states and have to decide every issue through citizens' vote! Now we have to assess whether the stage has come. I request everyone here or otherwise to find an objective measure of assessment. Moreover, could not the protagonists of secession consider building up of the opinion without training their guns on the people of Assam on the pretext of they being spies of the 'state' etc? The covert organisations always fall prey to the guiles of the 'state' they fight by killing their own due to suspicion and sometimes intra-organisational feud. Better they do things under the sun taking people as their forte rather than ineffectual guns. If the majority of the people feel that they should protect themselves with guns, I would not oppose that. But the people do not need a few to 'protect' and/or'kill' some of them on whimsy on the pleas of mistaken identity, cross-fire etc. kamal deka mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rubi Bhuyan and the people of his/her ilk must be living in a cave,totally detached from the ground realities of Assam.They are merely prodding at the body of ' sovereignty' without knowing what it is all about---like children at a new toy in the market showroom.Rubi Bhuyan's point of view expressed in the Assam Net is of no consequence as far as I am concerned. I respectfully disagree with Mr.Nayanjyoti Medhi's opinion,voiced in this forum in regard to holding a plebiscite in Assam focusing solely on the sovereignty issue as demanded by the ULFA,who are itching to break-up a 60-year-old kaleidoscopic federation.Why do we have to hold a referendum,buckling under the pressure of an outfit that has been outlawed by the Government ? Is Assam an exclusive preserve of the ULFA ? The right to self-determination,if allowed in Assam,would then be reduced to a series of voting exorcises,conducted every 10 years or so in order to meet the demand of the new generation,at whose whim the border of a country could be defined and redefined.It will not be very difficult to imagine the chaos,it would create in a polyglot,multi-ethnic and multi-religious state as Assam's,if such recipe were to be applied state-wide as a solution. Kamal J Deka sugarland,Texas. On 10/13/07, Nayanjyoti Medhi mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Rubi, I thought since you have been following my postings in Assam online and Assamnet, You would be enlightened as to what, I as an Assamese would want for me and my fellowmen. But it saddens me because, maybe the one interacting with me and the one following my posts are probably not the same person. If both were the same person, then you would not have written this to me. Even if you ask Chandan Mahanta, he will tell you that I have been one of the few in Assamnet who has been advocating against the kiling of our own brothers and sisters. Whether it is in Bhutan, Burma, Arunachal or in their own backyards. I have even gone on record saying that there should be a plebiscite. Preferably a independent one where the Government agencies has no part/role to play. I had requested only one condition that there should be a guarantee that the people's wishes should be respected.
Re: [Assam] ULFA reply
Has anyone made up his/her mind as to what should be the objective measure about the stage when such a vote becomes mandatory? It is NOT about making some OBJECTIVE , UNIVERSAL law, that will make it BINDING on all those in violent conflicts, for whatever reason, to submit to a plebiscite. The plebiscite idea is a RESPONSE to the ULFA/Assam/ GoI conflict, because those who accept and promote Indian supremacy over Assam CLAIM that they are the majority in Assam, thus ULFA ought to disappear, in a desi-demokratic dispensation where the numerical majority is expected to run supreme on all issues. No one needs to seek a plebiscite in Nagaland, do they? On the matter of numbers of lives lost in the conflict, should it make a difference whether it is 1,000 0r 5,000 or 10 if not 15? And should it make a difference WHO are included in it? George Bush and Dick Cheney would love it so to preside over desi-demokrasy, where they wouldn't have to explain to anyone why their armies are permanently placed in the NE or Kashmir , or tell anyone how many of their own people they have killed or put in harms way, or what part of their annual outlay is and have been expended since independence in fighting these wars against their beloved brethren in Nagaland , in Assam, in Mizoram, in Manipur ,in Kashmir and PRODUCING WHAT and at WHOSE expense. Apparently democracy lovers brought up under the fine traditions of desi-demokrasy missed it altogether. Wonder WHY? At 6:34 AM +0100 10/14/07, uttam borthakur wrote: As I understand it, according to Sri C. Mahanta, 15000 lives lost ( I do not know how this figure has been arrived at... whether it represents the number of ULFA cadres killed or Oxomiyas killed (including those in unintended cross-fires), whether it includes all lives lost including the non-oxomiyas) over 29 years is the objective basis making the plebiscite imperative. So, that is one measure. Has anyone made up his/her mind as to what should be the objective measure about the stage when such a vote becomes mandatory? kamal deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The GOI has similarly been willing to hold parleys with ULFA in order to hammer out a solution within the ambit of the Constitution.What is wrong with that ? KJD On 10/13/07, Chan Mahanta mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The big vacuum of reason here I see is this: IF, Assam's OWNERS, I mean other those who sit in Dilli , so wish for an end to hostilities and can't figure out HOW, and if ULFA, the villains, declare that they will abide by the verdict of the people for whose sovereignty they gave nearly 15,000 Oxomiya lives over 29 years, then would it NOT make eminent sense to hold one? What am I missing here? Would it be sincerity of purpose ( of a hope for peace), or is that yet another display , albeit unintended, attempt to to have it both ways? At 3:57 AM +0100 10/14/07, uttam borthakur wrote: Living in a cave does not exclude the yearning or formation of wisdom as Plato would ask us to believe. The right to self-determination should not be denied to any people. But the question is: how the stage is to be assessed where a plebiscite becomes imperative. Simply because ULFA says that, should it be held? That NSCN or other outfits have claimed parts of the present Assam, should a plebiscite be held for that purpose in the disputed areas? In that case there would be no end to plebiscite and that is a very impractical thing. Then we will have to divide Assam to the size of the city states and have to decide every issue through citizens' vote! Now we have to assess whether the stage has come. I request everyone here or otherwise to find an objective measure of assessment. Moreover, could not the protagonists of secession consider building up of the opinion without training their guns on the people of Assam on the pretext of they being spies of the 'state' etc? The covert organisations always fall prey to the guiles of the 'state' they fight by killing their own due to suspicion and sometimes intra-organisational feud. Better they do things under the sun taking people as their forte rather than ineffectual guns. If the majority of the people feel that they should protect themselves with guns, I would not oppose that. But the people do not need a few to 'protect' and/or'kill' some of them on whimsy on the pleas of mistaken identity, cross-fire etc. kamal deka mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rubi Bhuyan and the people of his/her ilk must be living in a cave,totally detached from the ground realities of Assam.They are merely prodding at the body of ' sovereignty' without knowing what it is all about---like children at a new toy in the market showroom.Rubi Bhuyan's point of view expressed in the Assam Net is of no consequence as far as I am
Re: [Assam] ULFA reply
Ooops! Did I , perchance commit yet another sin of interrupting your 'mouno brot' on my questions/comments Nayan? Or was the 'mouno brot' ( vow of silence) merely a ploy to avoid answering embarrassing questions about your pronouncements, verdicts and arguments :-)? By C Da I meant ULFA. Why I meant that should be clear to everyone. *** Failing which, they must be a bunch of --- WHAT ? Anyway, that is yet another fine demonstration of a High Court Advocate's steel-trap minded observations, that I must admit. C-da is ULFA, but how? (Don't ask embarrassing questions, Nayan will not answer them.) ULFA has not done anything for Assam! But how can ULFA, being hounded by the Indian military, aided and abetted by the likes of Nayan, forcing them to resort to lungi-shelter? Have Assam's intelligentsia cooperated with them, even though they egged them on in the beginning,? Helped them set up INSTITUTIONS of governance to administer, to undertake public welfare, to enforce the law, to provide uniform and timely justice? Would an adult with half a working brain make such an argument, much less an advocate of the High Court? Are we in the twilight zone or something? More so in the light of their undying support for what passes for 'legitimate' governance and their dedication to what passes for democracy, unable to hold them accountable, unable to reform what is dysfunctional, even unable to raise their VOICES seeking response to their concerns and needs. Yes, it is yet another of Kharkhowa life's many mysteries. And demonstration of desi-logic's power, as could be seen from Asssam's best--in the Internet, in the editorials of 'respected' newspapers, from Indian intellectual giants, Indian military scholars, leading journalists, High court advocates and their lordships--the demigods of justice themselves, high and mighty politicians---you name them! Those who have heads ought to bend them in SHAME is how I see it. At 5:46 PM +0530 10/14/07, Nayanjyoti Medhi wrote: *But here Nayan makes a very curious claim: That *I*, cm, have not done anything, like his govt., to bring peace to Assam. Do *I*, a foreigner, have either the resources, or the responsibility to do, ANYTHING at all for him or his state? By C Da I meant ULFA. Why I meant that should be clear to everyone. Nayan On 10/14/07, Chan Mahanta mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: O' kamal: kaleidoscopic federation. WHAT exactly is this K-fed Bapa? Are you suggesting Assam is in charge of its own destiny, making use of its best of human resources , with controls over its natural resources? Does this FED you are alluding to allow Assam to bring its best out to take care of itself? That it polity is independent? That it has controls over its finances? What kind of a voodoo federation are you speaking of? Does it really exist or is it merely a figment of some kharkhowa imagination steeped in 'bhangor jaal' ( cannabis induced torpor) :-)? Those who, on the one hand claim that Oxomiyas do not want any part of sovereignty, but on the other hand oppose a plebiscite to determine if it really is so, obviously are incapable of realizing that those who are observing silently are a bunch of morons, who can't put two ands two together to figure out what it amounts to. That, Kamal, is a highly tenuous proposition if you asked me. Infact I have gone on record saying that I am disgusted with both the Government and you (see my reply to C Da's post) because neither has done anything for peace and progress of Assam (I have not seen any results in 28 years, I have become a man from 4 months old baby). *** I agree that Nayan is one of a very few, who had the courage of his convictions to support a plebiscite., even though he slinked back to the cave he came out of when I challenged him to put his nmoney where his mouth is and raise his voice in support of a plebiscite. Instead of accepting the challenge, he put me , in his own words, ignore list, declaring he won't answer my questions. I can't imagine why, heh-heh . But here Nayan makes a very curious claim: That *I*, cm, have not done anything, like his govt., to bring peace to Assam. Do *I*, a foreigner, have either the resources, or the responsibility to do, ANYTHING at all for him or his state? Tell you what Nayan, you need to go back to your law-college texts and see if you can figure that out., about MY responsibilities here. What I do is out of the goodness of my heart :-), not because I owe you or your ilk anything. Further down I noticed that Nayan exhorted Rubi to ---Please ask Chandan Da not to barge in and write a hilarious reply to what i have written coz i won't reply then. That , by itself is quite hilarious. Does Nayan think that I have been prompting Rubi surreptitiously? And he still has not figured this
Re: [Assam] ULFA reply
That is what makes it surreal, and not real; beyond cause and effect; beyond rationality. This is bothering common people of average intelligence; they cannot afford romanticism. Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Has anyone made up his/her mind as to what should be the objective measure about the stage when such a vote becomes mandatory? It is NOT about making some OBJECTIVE , UNIVERSAL law, that will make it BINDING on all those in violent conflicts, for whatever reason, to submit to a plebiscite. The plebiscite idea is a RESPONSE to the ULFA/Assam/ GoI conflict, because those who accept and promote Indian supremacy over Assam CLAIM that they are the majority in Assam, thus ULFA ought to disappear, in a desi-demokratic dispensation where the numerical majority is expected to run supreme on all issues. No one needs to seek a plebiscite in Nagaland, do they? On the matter of numbers of lives lost in the conflict, should it make a difference whether it is 1,000 0r 5,000 or 10 if not 15? And should it make a difference WHO are included in it? George Bush and Dick Cheney would love it so to preside over desi-demokrasy, where they wouldn't have to explain to anyone why their armies are permanently placed in the NE or Kashmir , or tell anyone how many of their own people they have killed or put in harms way, or what part of their annual outlay is and have been expended since independence in fighting these wars against their beloved brethren in Nagaland , in Assam, in Mizoram, in Manipur ,in Kashmir and PRODUCING WHAT and at WHOSE expense. Apparently democracy lovers brought up under the fine traditions of desi-demokrasy missed it altogether. Wonder WHY? At 6:34 AM +0100 10/14/07, uttam borthakur wrote: As I understand it, according to Sri C. Mahanta, 15000 lives lost ( I do not know how this figure has been arrived at... whether it represents the number of ULFA cadres killed or Oxomiyas killed (including those in unintended cross-fires), whether it includes all lives lost including the non-oxomiyas) over 29 years is the objective basis making the plebiscite imperative. So, that is one measure. Has anyone made up his/her mind as to what should be the objective measure about the stage when such a vote becomes mandatory? kamal deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The GOI has similarly been willing to hold parleys with ULFA in order to hammer out a solution within the ambit of the Constitution.What is wrong with that ? KJD On 10/13/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The big vacuum of reason here I see is this: IF, Assam's OWNERS, I mean other those who sit in Dilli , so wish for an end to hostilities and can't figure out HOW, and if ULFA, the villains, declare that they will abide by the verdict of the people for whose sovereignty they gave nearly 15,000 Oxomiya lives over 29 years, then would it NOT make eminent sense to hold one? What am I missing here? Would it be sincerity of purpose ( of a hope for peace), or is that yet another display , albeit unintended, attempt to to have it both ways? At 3:57 AM +0100 10/14/07, uttam borthakur wrote: Living in a cave does not exclude the yearning or formation of wisdom as Plato would ask us to believe. The right to self-determination should not be denied to any people. But the question is: how the stage is to be assessed where a plebiscite becomes imperative. Simply because ULFA says that, should it be held? That NSCN or other outfits have claimed parts of the present Assam, should a plebiscite be held for that purpose in the disputed areas? In that case there would be no end to plebiscite and that is a very impractical thing. Then we will have to divide Assam to the size of the city states and have to decide every issue through citizens' vote! Now we have to assess whether the stage has come. I request everyone here or otherwise to find an objective measure of assessment. Moreover, could not the protagonists of secession consider building up of the opinion without training their guns on the people of Assam on the pretext of they being spies of the 'state' etc? The covert organisations always fall prey to the guiles of the 'state' they fight by killing their own due to suspicion and sometimes intra-organisational feud. Better they do things under the sun taking people as their forte rather than ineffectual guns. If the majority of the people feel that they should protect themselves with guns, I would not oppose that. But the people do not need a few to 'protect' and/or'kill' some of them on whimsy on the pleas of mistaken identity, cross-fire etc. kamal deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rubi Bhuyan and the people of his/her ilk
Re: [Assam] ULFA reply
At 3:24 PM +0100 10/14/07, uttam borthakur wrote: That is what makes it surreal, and not real; beyond cause and effect; beyond rationality. This is bothering common people of average intelligence; they cannot afford romanticism. How about the ABOVE AVERAGE, those who are in charge of their 'legitimate' governance, and those who put them there, by their overt or tacit support? Can they afford it? If they cannot, as I like to think they can't, WHAT HAVE THEY SHOWN for their effort to bring the conflict to an end? I mean other than to wish ULFA away or making perfunctory noises about the Govt. acting undemocratically every now and then? Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone made up his/her mind as to what should be the objective measure about the stage when such a vote becomes mandatory? It is NOT about making some OBJECTIVE , UNIVERSAL law, that will make it BINDING on all those in violent conflicts, for whatever reason, to submit to a plebiscite. The plebiscite idea is a RESPONSE to the ULFA/Assam/ GoI conflict, because those who accept and promote Indian supremacy over Assam CLAIM that they are the majority in Assam, thus ULFA ought to disappear, in a desi-demokratic dispensation where the numerical majority is expected to run supreme on all issues. No one needs to seek a plebiscite in Nagaland, do they? On the matter of numbers of lives lost in the conflict, should it make a difference whether it is 1,000 0r 5,000 or 10 if not 15? And should it make a difference WHO are included in it? George Bush and Dick Cheney would love it so to preside over desi-demokrasy, where they wouldn't have to explain to anyone why their armies are permanently placed in the NE or Kashmir , or tell anyone how many of their own people they have killed or put in harms way, or what part of their annual outlay is and have been expended since independence in fighting these wars against their beloved brethren in Nagaland , in Assam, in Mizoram, in Manipur ,in Kashmir and PRODUCING WHAT and at WHOSE expense. Apparently democracy lovers brought up under the fine traditions of desi-demokrasy missed it altogether. Wonder WHY? At 6:34 AM +0100 10/14/07, uttam borthakur wrote: As I understand it, according to Sri C. Mahanta, 15000 lives lost ( I do not know how this figure has been arrived at... whether it represents the number of ULFA cadres killed or Oxomiyas killed (including those in unintended cross-fires), whether it includes all lives lost including the non-oxomiyas) over 29 years is the objective basis making the plebiscite imperative. So, that is one measure. Has anyone made up his/her mind as to what should be the objective measure about the stage when such a vote becomes mandatory? kamal deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The GOI has similarly been willing to hold parleys with ULFA in order to hammer out a solution within the ambit of the Constitution.What is wrong with that ? KJD On 10/13/07, Chan Mahanta mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The big vacuum of reason here I see is this: IF, Assam's OWNERS, I mean other those who sit in Dilli , so wish for an end to hostilities and can't figure out HOW, and if ULFA, the villains, declare that they will abide by the verdict of the people for whose sovereignty they gave nearly 15,000 Oxomiya lives over 29 years, then would it NOT make eminent sense to hold one? What am I missing here? Would it be sincerity of purpose ( of a hope for peace), or is that yet another display , albeit unintended, attempt to to have it both ways? At 3:57 AM +0100 10/14/07, uttam borthakur wrote: Living in a cave does not exclude the yearning or formation of wisdom as Plato would ask us to believe. The right to self-determination should not be denied to any people. But the question is: how the stage is to be assessed where a plebiscite becomes imperative. Simply because ULFA says that, should it be held? That NSCN or other outfits have claimed parts of the present Assam, should a plebiscite be held for that purpose in the disputed areas? In that case there would be no end to plebiscite and that is a very impractical thing. Then we will have to divide Assam to the size of the city states and have to decide every issue through citizens' vote! Now we have to assess whether the stage has come. I request everyone here or otherwise to find an objective measure of assessment. Moreover, could not the protagonists of secession consider building up of the opinion without training their guns on the people of Assam on the pretext of they being spies of the 'state' etc? The covert organisations always fall prey to the guiles of the 'state' they fight by killing their own due to suspicion and sometimes intra-organisational feud. Better they do
Re: [Assam] ULFA reply
The 'Above Average' are already in the surreal/illogical/romantic conflict:-). They are very few in numbers and have taken their seats either with those who are in governance or those who want to evict them with 'force'. Irony is, both sides have nothing to show. The common people with average intelligence in Assam understand this reality. Yet, till now the common people with average intelligence have put the 'colonisers' in legit governance through 'vote' and have spurned the 'freedom fighters'. Then why is the need for a plebiscite? Or UN presence will give the 'votes' credibility? Or would you say that all people have not 'voted' in these 'elections' or that they are manipulated/ rigged? Why do you think that all oxomiyas and oxombaxis would go out to vote if held under UN auspices? Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 3:24 PM +0100 10/14/07, uttam borthakur wrote: That is what makes it surreal, and not real; beyond cause and effect; beyond rationality. This is bothering common people of average intelligence; they cannot afford romanticism. How about the ABOVE AVERAGE, those who are in charge of their 'legitimate' governance, and those who put them there, by their overt or tacit support? Can they afford it? If they cannot, as I like to think they can't, WHAT HAVE THEY SHOWN for their effort to bring the conflict to an end? I mean other than to wish ULFA away or making perfunctory noises about the Govt. acting undemocratically every now and then? Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone made up his/her mind as to what should be the objective measure about the stage when such a vote becomes mandatory? It is NOT about making some OBJECTIVE , UNIVERSAL law, that will make it BINDING on all those in violent conflicts, for whatever reason, to submit to a plebiscite. The plebiscite idea is a RESPONSE to the ULFA/Assam/ GoI conflict, because those who accept and promote Indian supremacy over Assam CLAIM that they are the majority in Assam, thus ULFA ought to disappear, in a desi-demokratic dispensation where the numerical majority is expected to run supreme on all issues. No one needs to seek a plebiscite in Nagaland, do they? On the matter of numbers of lives lost in the conflict, should it make a difference whether it is 1,000 0r 5,000 or 10 if not 15? And should it make a difference WHO are included in it? George Bush and Dick Cheney would love it so to preside over desi-demokrasy, where they wouldn't have to explain to anyone why their armies are permanently placed in the NE or Kashmir , or tell anyone how many of their own people they have killed or put in harms way, or what part of their annual outlay is and have been expended since independence in fighting these wars against their beloved brethren in Nagaland , in Assam, in Mizoram, in Manipur ,in Kashmir and PRODUCING WHAT and at WHOSE expense. Apparently democracy lovers brought up under the fine traditions of desi-demokrasy missed it altogether. Wonder WHY? At 6:34 AM +0100 10/14/07, uttam borthakur wrote: As I understand it, according to Sri C. Mahanta, 15000 lives lost ( I do not know how this figure has been arrived at... whether it represents the number of ULFA cadres killed or Oxomiyas killed (including those in unintended cross-fires), whether it includes all lives lost including the non-oxomiyas) over 29 years is the objective basis making the plebiscite imperative. So, that is one measure. Has anyone made up his/her mind as to what should be the objective measure about the stage when such a vote becomes mandatory? kamal deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The GOI has similarly been willing to hold parleys with ULFA in order to hammer out a solution within the ambit of the Constitution.What is wrong with that ? KJD On 10/13/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The big vacuum of reason here I see is this: IF, Assam's OWNERS, I mean other those who sit in Dilli , so wish for an end to hostilities and can't figure out HOW, and if ULFA, the villains, declare that they will abide by the verdict of the people for whose sovereignty they gave nearly 15,000 Oxomiya lives over 29 years, then would it NOT make eminent sense to hold one? What am I missing here? Would it be sincerity of purpose ( of a hope for peace), or is that yet another display , albeit unintended, attempt to to have it both ways? At 3:57 AM +0100 10/14/07, uttam borthakur wrote: Living in a cave does not exclude the yearning or formation of wisdom as Plato would ask us to believe. The right to self-determination should not be denied to any people. But the
Re: [Assam] ULFA reply
The 'Above Average' are already in the surreal/illogical/romantic conflict:-). They are very few in numbers and have taken their seats either with those who are in governance or those who want to evict them with 'force'. *** Really? But from what I read in esomonline or in assamnet, the insurgents are fools and fill the ranks of the ignoramus That would leave the above average running the show, duly elected thru that universal adult franchise our Texan friend reminded us of. Are they clueless? The common people with average intelligence in Assam understand this reality. If they do, how come they don't do something about it? After all they are in a democracy? they can change things to fir their needs. Who is holding them back? The ignoramus of the insurgents? Something does not add up here, does it? Yet, till now the common people with average intelligence have put the 'colonisers' in legit governance through 'vote' and have spurned the 'freedom fighters'. *** So what seems to be problem? They are already in the promised land. Then why is the need for a plebiscite? Or UN presence will give the 'votes' credibility? *** Can we try a wild guess ? I explained it about half a dozen times in the last two days or so. If we don't agree, can we at least hear WHY? That is because no one , not even Indians, trust desi-demokrasy, would be my conclusion. Am I wrong? Or would you say that all people have not 'voted' in these 'elections' or that they are manipulated/ rigged? What do YOU think? Why do you think that all oxomiyas and oxombaxis would go out to vote if held under UN auspices? I don't know what they will do. Their track record of elections certainly have not done any good for Assam.That is why I would like to FIND OUT. At 2:46 AM +0100 10/15/07, uttam borthakur wrote: The 'Above Average' are already in the surreal/illogical/romantic conflict:-). They are very few in numbers and have taken their seats either with those who are in governance or those who want to evict them with 'force'. Irony is, both sides have nothing to show. The common people with average intelligence in Assam understand this reality. Yet, till now the common people with average intelligence have put the 'colonisers' in legit governance through 'vote' and have spurned the 'freedom fighters'. Then why is the need for a plebiscite? Or UN presence will give the 'votes' credibility? Or would you say that all people have not 'voted' in these 'elections' or that they are manipulated/ rigged? Why do you think that all oxomiyas and oxombaxis would go out to vote if held under UN auspices? Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 3:24 PM +0100 10/14/07, uttam borthakur wrote: That is what makes it surreal, and not real; beyond cause and effect; beyond rationality. This is bothering common people of average intelligence; they cannot afford romanticism. How about the ABOVE AVERAGE, those who are in charge of their 'legitimate' governance, and those who put them there, by their overt or tacit support? Can they afford it? If they cannot, as I like to think they can't, WHAT HAVE THEY SHOWN for their effort to bring the conflict to an end? I mean other than to wish ULFA away or making perfunctory noises about the Govt. acting undemocratically every now and then? Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone made up his/her mind as to what should be the objective measure about the stage when such a vote becomes mandatory? It is NOT about making some OBJECTIVE , UNIVERSAL law, that will make it BINDING on all those in violent conflicts, for whatever reason, to submit to a plebiscite. The plebiscite idea is a RESPONSE to the ULFA/Assam/ GoI conflict, because those who accept and promote Indian supremacy over Assam CLAIM that they are the majority in Assam, thus ULFA ought to disappear, in a desi-demokratic dispensation where the numerical majority is expected to run supreme on all issues. No one needs to seek a plebiscite in Nagaland, do they? On the matter of numbers of lives lost in the conflict, should it make a difference whether it is 1,000 0r 5,000 or 10 if not 15? And should it make a difference WHO are included in it? George Bush and Dick Cheney would love it so to preside over desi-demokrasy, where they wouldn't have to explain to anyone why their armies are permanently placed in the NE or Kashmir , or tell anyone how many of their own people they have killed or put in harms way, or what part of their annual outlay is and have been expended since independence in fighting these wars against their beloved brethren in Nagaland , in Assam, in Mizoram, in Manipur ,in Kashmir and PRODUCING WHAT and at WHOSE expense. Apparently democracy lovers brought up under the fine traditions of desi-demokrasy missed it altogether. Wonder WHY? At 6:34 AM
[Assam] ULFA reply
Dear Nayanjyoti Medhi, We have read your comments in AssamOnline. You wrote, Times have changed. The boys are disillusioned after living in jungle camps with mosquitoes and malaria, killing, avoiding the bullets of the Indian security forces, and no real destination in sight. To the mainstream Assamese the ULFA is no longer a struggle for national salvation but one that keeps normal life disturbed. Is it not the time to rethink and ask the people what they want? The ULFA should ask the people if the Assamese people see the ULFA movement as a beneficial and healthy activity for the betterment of the Assamese people? Do the Assamese people really feel they are not part of India and are being exploited by New Delhi? Now the final question is that whether The ULFA movement is something that is wanted by the people of Assam and supported by them or is it something which is being imposed on them. We find that your statement is a mere repetition of what the unified command structure has been saying for the last twenty eight years. We do not accept such views. The colonial administration has been trying to steer the fate of the liberation struggle of Asom to their liking for the past 28 years. You have put emphasis on the changes the administration has brought in. But, why the struggle by thousands of freedom fighters in a tough situation created by fifth columnists facing uncertain future is still ongoing has not been highlighted by you? The ULFA has admitted of civilian casuality in unfortunate circumstances(viz suddenly appearing during firing) while conducting operations against the enemy. Anticipating such casualities we have publicly requested people not to be with the occupation forces or in close proximity of the military camps or otherwise. The murder of engineer Ajay Deka and the old woman Sabitri Rajbangshi has proven again our contention that the unified command structure has been involved in these crimes in a planned manner to malign the ULFA. Some may not believe our position, but, they should not believe the unified command structures assertions either. You are talking about people supporting the unified structure but there is no mention of the need for independent inquiry into their operations leading to human suffering and deaths. Hence we find your views biased. We are saying that there are masses who want an independent Asom. We have demanded a plebiscite on the restoration of Asoms sovereignty under the supervision of the United Nations. We have declared long time ago that we shall accept the verdict of the people. Pre-judging of a possible negative outcome of such a plebiscite conducted in a environment fee of fear, surely is not devoid of prejudices? Instead of discussing how such an environment be created, saying that the United Nations wont agree to a plebiscite, is not like plucking a solution from the thin air? Why do you have to be dependent on whether India will agree to it or not? Without gauzing the true depth what the majority of people of Asom wants, based on a opinion poll conducted at the behest of the army and the police and use of the internet voting available only o some town dwellers, you suggest be the decisive verdict on the fate of the land and the people? Is it not very childish to talk like this? With warm wishes Rubi Bhuyan Nayanjyoti Medhi [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 28 years have gone by since the start of the liberation struggle by the United Liberation Front of Assam. Many boys have died and their bodies rest in unmarked graves in jungles of Bhutan, Arunachal, Myanmar and still many have died in their own backyards. Many are languishing in the different jails all throughout Assam. Many have surrendered and joined the mainstream. Not only the boys, with them many civilians who did not have anything to do with liberation have given their lives in this ongoing struggle between the state and the liberation army. United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA) was formed on April 7, 1979 at the Rang Ghar in Sibsagar to establish a sovereign socialist Assam through an armed struggle. Of course, there was an initial euphoria and an unnaturally heightened sense of alienation because of the step motherly attitude of the Indian Government in the initial stages of the movement. The truth has since been gradually realised and that sense of alienation has died. Times have changed. The boys are disillusioned after living in jungle camps with mosquitoes and malaria, killing, avoiding the bullets of the Indian security forces, and no real destination in sight. To the mainstream Assamese the ULFA is no longer a struggle for national salvation but one that keeps normal life disturbed. Is it not the time to rethink and ask the people what they want? The ULFA should ask the people if the Assamese people see the ULFA movement as a beneficial and healthy activity for
Re: [Assam] ULFA reply
Dear Rubi, I thought since you have been following my postings in Assam online and Assamnet, You would be enlightened as to what, I as an Assamese would want for me and my fellowmen. But it saddens me because, maybe the one interacting with me and the one following my posts are probably not the same person. If both were the same person, then you would not have written this to me. Even if you ask Chandan Mahanta, he will tell you that I have been one of the few in Assamnet who has been advocating against the kiling of our own brothers and sisters. Whether it is in Bhutan, Burma, Arunachal or in their own backyards. I have even gone on record saying that there should be a plebiscite. Preferably a independent one where the Government agencies has no part/role to play. I had requested only one condition that there should be a guarantee that the people's wishes should be respected. I am on record that i have been advocating against killing. of innocents and others equally. But then how would you know. You are not the one following the posts. However I would suggest that you see the postings in Assamnet put there by me few days back. You will find that it is me who wrote that there should be a plebiscite because a very miniscule portion of the masses have access to internet and their views here do not reflect the view of the masses. And that is the very reason why I requested you (ULFA) to go to the masses in the last post as well as in my reply to the letter written by you to Shantikam Hazarika, a copy of which was also sent to me. Instead of discussing how such an environment be created, saying that the United Nations won't agree to a plebiscite, is not like plucking a solution from the thin air? You have put emphasis on the changes the administration has brought in. Pray tell me when and where did I make the statement that United Nations won't agree to a plebiscite. And one thing more. I have never emphasised on the changes the administration has bought in. Again, I ask you, When and where did I say that? Infact I have gone on record saying that I am disgusted with both the Government and you (see my reply to C Da's post) because neither has done anything for peace and progress of Assam (I have not seen any results in 28 years, I have become a man from 4 months old baby). Nayan P.S: Please ask Chandan Da not to barge in and write a hilarious reply to what i have written coz i won't reply then. On 10/13/07, ulfa_ 1979April7 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Nayanjyoti Medhi, We have read your comments in AssamOnline. You wrote, Times have changed. The boys are disillusioned after living in jungle camps with mosquitoes and malaria, killing, avoiding the bullets of the Indian security forces, and no real destination in sight. To the mainstream Assamese the ULFA is no longer a struggle for national salvation but one that keeps normal life disturbed. Is it not the time to rethink and ask the people what they want? The ULFA should ask the people if the Assamese people see the ULFA movement as a beneficial and healthy activity for the betterment of the Assamese people? Do the Assamese people really feel they are not part of India and are being exploited by New Delhi? Now the final question is that whether The ULFA movement is something that is wanted by the people of Assam and supported by them or is it something which is being imposed on them. We find that your statement is a mere repetition of what the unified command structure has been saying for the last twenty eight years. We do not accept such views. The colonial administration has been trying to steer the fate of the liberation struggle of Asom to their liking for the past 28 years. You have put emphasis on the changes the administration has brought in. But, why the struggle by thousands of freedom fighters in a tough situation created by fifth columnists facing uncertain future is still ongoing has not been highlighted by you? The ULFA has admitted of civilian casuality in unfortunate circumstances(viz suddenly appearing during firing) while conducting operations against the enemy. Anticipating such casualities we have publicly requested people not to be with the occupation forces or in close proximity of the military camps or otherwise. The murder of engineer Ajay Deka and the old woman Sabitri Rajbangshi has proven again our contention that the unified command structure has been involved in these crimes in a planned manner to malign the ULFA. Some may not believe our position, but, they should not believe the unified command structure's assertions either. You are talking about people supporting the unified structure but there is no mention of the need for independent inquiry into their operations leading to human suffering and deaths. Hence we find your views biased. We are saying that there are masses who want an independent Asom. We have demanded a plebiscite on the restoration of Asom's
Re: [Assam] ULFA reply
Rubi Bhuyan and the people of his/her ilk must be living in a cave,totally detached from the ground realities of Assam.They are merely prodding at the body of ' *sovereignty'* without knowing what it is all about---like children at a new toy in the market showroom.Rubi Bhuyan's point of view expressed in the Assam Net is of no consequence as far as I am concerned. I respectfully disagree with Mr.Nayanjyoti Medhi's opinion,voiced in this forum in regard to holding a plebiscite in Assam focusing solely on the sovereignty issue as demanded by the ULFA,who are itching to break-up a 60-year-old kaleidoscopic federation.Why do we have to hold a referendum,buckling under the pressure of an outfit that has been outlawed by the Government ? Is Assam an exclusive preserve of the ULFA ? The right to self-determination,if allowed in Assam,would then be reduced to a series of voting exorcises,conducted every 10 years or so in order to meet the demand of the new generation,at whose whim the border of a country could be defined and redefined.It will not be very difficult to imagine the chaos,it would create in a polyglot,multi-ethnic and multi-religious state as Assam's,if such recipe were to be applied state-wide as a solution. Kamal J Deka sugarland,Texas. On 10/13/07, Nayanjyoti Medhi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Rubi, I thought since you have been following my postings in Assam online and Assamnet, You would be enlightened as to what, I as an Assamese would want for me and my fellowmen. But it saddens me because, maybe the one interacting with me and the one following my posts are probably not the same person. If both were the same person, then you would not have written this to me. Even if you ask Chandan Mahanta, he will tell you that I have been one of the few in Assamnet who has been advocating against the kiling of our own brothers and sisters. Whether it is in Bhutan, Burma, Arunachal or in their own backyards. I have even gone on record saying that there should be a plebiscite. Preferably a independent one where the Government agencies has no part/role to play. I had requested only one condition that there should be a guarantee that the people's wishes should be respected. I am on record that i have been advocating against killing. of innocents and others equally. But then how would you know. You are not the one following the posts. However I would suggest that you see the postings in Assamnet put there by me few days back. You will find that it is me who wrote that there should be a plebiscite because a very miniscule portion of the masses have access to internet and their views here do not reflect the view of the masses. And that is the very reason why I requested you (ULFA) to go to the masses in the last post as well as in my reply to the letter written by you to Shantikam Hazarika, a copy of which was also sent to me. Instead of discussing how such an environment be created, saying that the United Nations won't agree to a plebiscite, is not like plucking a solution from the thin air? You have put emphasis on the changes the administration has brought in. Pray tell me when and where did I make the statement that United Nations won't agree to a plebiscite. And one thing more. I have never emphasised on the changes the administration has bought in. Again, I ask you, When and where did I say that? Infact I have gone on record saying that I am disgusted with both the Government and you (see my reply to C Da's post) because neither has done anything for peace and progress of Assam (I have not seen any results in 28 years, I have become a man from 4 months old baby). Nayan P.S: Please ask Chandan Da not to barge in and write a hilarious reply to what i have written coz i won't reply then. On 10/13/07, ulfa_ 1979April7 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Nayanjyoti Medhi, We have read your comments in AssamOnline. You wrote, Times have changed. The boys are disillusioned after living in jungle camps with mosquitoes and malaria, killing, avoiding the bullets of the Indian security forces, and no real destination in sight. To the mainstream Assamese the ULFA is no longer a struggle for national salvation but one that keeps normal life disturbed. Is it not the time to rethink and ask the people what they want? The ULFA should ask the people if the Assamese people see the ULFA movement as a beneficial and healthy activity for the betterment of the Assamese people? Do the Assamese people really feel they are not part of India and are being exploited by New Delhi? Now the final question is that whether The ULFA movement is something that is wanted by the people of Assam and supported by them or is it something which is being imposed on them. We find that your statement is a mere repetition of what the unified command structure has been saying for the last twenty eight years. We do not accept such views. The colonial
Re: [Assam] ULFA reply
Living in a cave does not exclude the yearning or formation of wisdom as Plato would ask us to believe. The right to self-determination should not be denied to any people. But the question is: how the stage is to be assessed where a plebiscite becomes imperative. Simply because ULFA says that, should it be held? That NSCN or other outfits have claimed parts of the present Assam, should a plebiscite be held for that purpose in the disputed areas? In that case there would be no end to plebiscite and that is a very impractical thing. Then we will have to divide Assam to the size of the city states and have to decide every issue through citizens' vote! Now we have to assess whether the stage has come. I request everyone here or otherwise to find an objective measure of assessment. Moreover, could not the protagonists of secession consider building up of the opinion without training their guns on the people of Assam on the pretext of they being spies of the 'state' etc? The covert organisations always fall prey to the guiles of the 'state' they fight by killing their own due to suspicion and sometimes intra-organisational feud. Better they do things under the sun taking people as their forte rather than ineffectual guns. If the majority of the people feel that they should protect themselves with guns, I would not oppose that. But the people do not need a few to 'protect' and/or'kill' some of them on whimsy on the pleas of mistaken identity, cross-fire etc. kamal deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rubi Bhuyan and the people of his/her ilk must be living in a cave,totally detached from the ground realities of Assam.They are merely prodding at the body of ' sovereignty' without knowing what it is all about---like children at a new toy in the market showroom.Rubi Bhuyan's point of view expressed in the Assam Net is of no consequence as far as I am concerned. I respectfully disagree with Mr.Nayanjyoti Medhi's opinion,voiced in this forum in regard to holding a plebiscite in Assam focusing solely on the sovereignty issue as demanded by the ULFA,who are itching to break-up a 60-year-old kaleidoscopic federation.Why do we have to hold a referendum,buckling under the pressure of an outfit that has been outlawed by the Government ? Is Assam an exclusive preserve of the ULFA ? The right to self-determination,if allowed in Assam,would then be reduced to a series of voting exorcises,conducted every 10 years or so in order to meet the demand of the new generation,at whose whim the border of a country could be defined and redefined.It will not be very difficult to imagine the chaos,it would create in a polyglot,multi-ethnic and multi-religious state as Assam's,if such recipe were to be applied state-wide as a solution. Kamal J Deka sugarland,Texas. On 10/13/07, Nayanjyoti Medhi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Rubi, I thought since you have been following my postings in Assam online and Assamnet, You would be enlightened as to what, I as an Assamese would want for me and my fellowmen. But it saddens me because, maybe the one interacting with me and the one following my posts are probably not the same person. If both were the same person, then you would not have written this to me. Even if you ask Chandan Mahanta, he will tell you that I have been one of the few in Assamnet who has been advocating against the kiling of our own brothers and sisters. Whether it is in Bhutan, Burma, Arunachal or in their own backyards. I have even gone on record saying that there should be a plebiscite. Preferably a independent one where the Government agencies has no part/role to play. I had requested only one condition that there should be a guarantee that the people's wishes should be respected. I am on record that i have been advocating against killing. of innocents and others equally. But then how would you know. You are not the one following the posts. However I would suggest that you see the postings in Assamnet put there by me few days back. You will find that it is me who wrote that there should be a plebiscite because a very miniscule portion of the masses have access to internet and their views here do not reflect the view of the masses. And that is the very reason why I requested you (ULFA) to go to the masses in the last post as well as in my reply to the letter written by you to Shantikam Hazarika, a copy of which was also sent to me. Instead of discussing how such an environment be created, saying that the United Nations won't agree to a plebiscite, is not like plucking a solution from the thin air? You have put emphasis on the changes the administration has brought in. Pray tell me when and where did I make the statement that United Nations won't agree to a plebiscite. And one thing more. I have never emphasised on the changes the administration has bought in. Again, I ask you, When and where did I say that?
Re: [Assam] ULFA reply
O' kamal: kaleidoscopic federation. WHAT exactly is this K-fed Bapa? Are you suggesting Assam is in charge of its own destiny, making use of its best of human resources , with controls over its natural resources? Does this FED you are alluding to allow Assam to bring its best out to take care of itself? That it polity is independent? That it has controls over its finances? What kind of a voodoo federation are you speaking of? Does it really exist or is it merely a figment of some kharkhowa imagination steeped in 'bhangor jaal' ( cannabis induced torpor) :-)? Those who, on the one hand claim that Oxomiyas do not want any part of sovereignty, but on the other hand oppose a plebiscite to determine if it really is so, obviously are incapable of realizing that those who are observing silently are a bunch of morons, who can't put two ands two together to figure out what it amounts to. That, Kamal, is a highly tenuous proposition if you asked me. Infact I have gone on record saying that I am disgusted with both the Government and you (see my reply to C Da's post) because neither has done anything for peace and progress of Assam (I have not seen any results in 28 years, I have become a man from 4 months old baby). *** I agree that Nayan is one of a very few, who had the courage of his convictions to support a plebiscite., even though he slinked back to the cave he came out of when I challenged him to put his nmoney where his mouth is and raise his voice in support of a plebiscite. Instead of accepting the challenge, he put me , in his own words, ignore list, declaring he won't answer my questions. I can't imagine why, heh-heh . But here Nayan makes a very curious claim: That *I*, cm, have not done anything, like his govt., to bring peace to Assam. Do *I*, a foreigner, have either the resources, or the responsibility to do, ANYTHING at all for him or his state? Tell you what Nayan, you need to go back to your law-college texts and see if you can figure that out., about MY responsibilities here. What I do is out of the goodness of my heart :-), not because I owe you or your ilk anything. Further down I noticed that Nayan exhorted Rubi to ---Please ask Chandan Da not to barge in and write a hilarious reply to what i have written coz i won't reply then. That , by itself is quite hilarious. Does Nayan think that I have been prompting Rubi surreptitiously? And he still has not figured this out, even though I explained it in so many words: That I don't need his permission, like he does not need mine, to BARGE IN on any debate or discussion in progress in this forum. Looks like, among other things, Nayan is also afflicted with a learning disability. But , (sigh!!!) he is not alone here. I have become a man from 4 months old baby That, I must give Nayan credit for, considering that he overcame such an impossible hurdle faced by so few men :-). I don't know Nayan---you don't learn , do you? But I am 62 and patient, unlike SH. I hope you will learn, one of these years. c -da At 9:00 PM -0500 10/13/07, kamal deka wrote: Rubi Bhuyan and the people of his/her ilk must be living in a cave,totally detached from the ground realities of Assam.They are merely prodding at the body of ' sovereignty' without knowing what it is all about---like children at a new toy in the market showroom.Rubi Bhuyan's point of view expressed in the Assam Net is of no consequence as far as I am concerned. I respectfully disagree with Mr.Nayanjyoti Medhi's opinion,voiced in this forum in regard to holding a plebiscite in Assam focusing solely on the sovereignty issue as demanded by the ULFA,who are itching to break-up a 60-year-old kaleidoscopic federation.Why do we have to hold a referendum,buckling under the pressure of an outfit that has been outlawed by the Government ? Is Assam an exclusive preserve of the ULFA ? The right to self-determination,if allowed in Assam,would then be reduced to a series of voting exorcises,conducted every 10 years or so in order to meet the demand of the new generation,at whose whim the border of a country could be defined and redefined.It will not be very difficult to imagine the chaos,it would create in a polyglot,multi-ethnic and multi-religious state as Assam's,if such recipe were to be applied state-wide as a solution. Kamal J Deka sugarland,Texas. On 10/13/07, Nayanjyoti Medhi mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Rubi, I thought since you have been following my postings in Assam online and Assamnet, You would be enlightened as to what, I as an Assamese would want for me and my fellowmen. But it saddens me because, maybe the one interacting with me and the one following my posts are probably not the same person. If both were the same person, then you would not have written this to me. Even if you ask Chandan Mahanta, he will tell you that I have been one of the
Re: [Assam] ULFA reply
The big vacuum of reason here I see is this: IF, Assam's OWNERS, I mean other those who sit in Dilli , so wish for an end to hostilities and can't figure out HOW, and if ULFA, the villains, declare that they will abide by the verdict of the people for whose sovereignty they gave nearly 15,000 Oxomiya lives over 29 years, then would it NOT make eminent sense to hold one? What am I missing here? Would it be sincerity of purpose ( of a hope for peace), or is that yet another display , albeit unintended, attempt to to have it both ways? At 3:57 AM +0100 10/14/07, uttam borthakur wrote: Living in a cave does not exclude the yearning or formation of wisdom as Plato would ask us to believe. The right to self-determination should not be denied to any people. But the question is: how the stage is to be assessed where a plebiscite becomes imperative. Simply because ULFA says that, should it be held? That NSCN or other outfits have claimed parts of the present Assam, should a plebiscite be held for that purpose in the disputed areas? In that case there would be no end to plebiscite and that is a very impractical thing. Then we will have to divide Assam to the size of the city states and have to decide every issue through citizens' vote! Now we have to assess whether the stage has come. I request everyone here or otherwise to find an objective measure of assessment. Moreover, could not the protagonists of secession consider building up of the opinion without training their guns on the people of Assam on the pretext of they being spies of the 'state' etc? The covert organisations always fall prey to the guiles of the 'state' they fight by killing their own due to suspicion and sometimes intra-organisational feud. Better they do things under the sun taking people as their forte rather than ineffectual guns. If the majority of the people feel that they should protect themselves with guns, I would not oppose that. But the people do not need a few to 'protect' and/or'kill' some of them on whimsy on the pleas of mistaken identity, cross-fire etc. kamal deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rubi Bhuyan and the people of his/her ilk must be living in a cave,totally detached from the ground realities of Assam.They are merely prodding at the body of ' sovereignty' without knowing what it is all about---like children at a new toy in the market showroom.Rubi Bhuyan's point of view expressed in the Assam Net is of no consequence as far as I am concerned. I respectfully disagree with Mr.Nayanjyoti Medhi's opinion,voiced in this forum in regard to holding a plebiscite in Assam focusing solely on the sovereignty issue as demanded by the ULFA,who are itching to break-up a 60-year-old kaleidoscopic federation.Why do we have to hold a referendum,buckling under the pressure of an outfit that has been outlawed by the Government ? Is Assam an exclusive preserve of the ULFA ? The right to self-determination,if allowed in Assam,would then be reduced to a series of voting exorcises,conducted every 10 years or so in order to meet the demand of the new generation,at whose whim the border of a country could be defined and redefined.It will not be very difficult to imagine the chaos,it would create in a polyglot,multi-ethnic and multi-religious state as Assam's,if such recipe were to be applied state-wide as a solution. Kamal J Deka sugarland,Texas. On 10/13/07, Nayanjyoti Medhi mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Rubi, I thought since you have been following my postings in Assam online and Assamnet, You would be enlightened as to what, I as an Assamese would want for me and my fellowmen. But it saddens me because, maybe the one interacting with me and the one following my posts are probably not the same person. If both were the same person, then you would not have written this to me. Even if you ask Chandan Mahanta, he will tell you that I have been one of the few in Assamnet who has been advocating against the kiling of our own brothers and sisters. Whether it is in Bhutan, Burma, Arunachal or in their own backyards. I have even gone on record saying that there should be a plebiscite. Preferably a independent one where the Government agencies has no part/role to play. I had requested only one condition that there should be a guarantee that the people's wishes should be respected. I am on record that i have been advocating against killing. of innocents and others equally. But then how would you know. You are not the one following the posts. However I would suggest that you see the postings in Assamnet put there by me few days back. You will find that it is me who wrote that there should be a plebiscite because a very miniscule portion of the masses have access to internet and their views here do not reflect the view of the masses. And that is the very reason why I requested you (ULFA) to go to the masses in the last post
Re: [Assam] ULFA reply
The GOI has similarly been willing to hold parleys with ULFA in order to hammer out a solution within the ambit of the Constitution.What is wrong with that ? KJD On 10/13/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The big vacuum of reason here I see is this: IF, Assam's OWNERS, I mean other those who sit in Dilli , so wish for an end to hostilities and can't figure out HOW, and if ULFA, the villains, declare that they will abide by the verdict of the people for whose sovereignty they gave nearly 15,000 Oxomiya lives over 29 years, then would it NOT make eminent sense to hold one? What am I missing here? Would it be sincerity of purpose ( of a hope for peace), or is that yet another display , albeit unintended, attempt to to have it both ways? At 3:57 AM +0100 10/14/07, uttam borthakur wrote: Living in a cave does not exclude the yearning or formation of wisdom as Plato would ask us to believe. The right to self-determination should not be denied to any people. But the question is: how the stage is to be assessed where a plebiscite becomes imperative. Simply because ULFA says that, should it be held? That NSCN or other outfits have claimed parts of the present Assam, should a plebiscite be held for that purpose in the disputed areas? In that case there would be no end to plebiscite and that is a very impractical thing. Then we will have to divide Assam to the size of the city states and have to decide every issue through citizens' vote! Now we have to assess whether the stage has come. I request everyone here or otherwise to find an objective measure of assessment. Moreover, could not the protagonists of secession consider building up of the opinion without training their guns on the people of Assam on the pretext of they being spies of the 'state' etc? The covert organisations always fall prey to the guiles of the 'state' they fight by killing their own due to suspicion and sometimes intra-organisational feud. Better they do things under the sun taking people as their forte rather than ineffectual guns. If the majority of the people feel that they should protect themselves with guns, I would not oppose that. But the people do not need a few to 'protect' and/or'kill' some of them on whimsy on the pleas of mistaken identity, cross-fire etc. *kamal deka [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: Rubi Bhuyan and the people of his/her ilk must be living in a cave,totally detached from the ground realities of Assam.They are merely prodding at the body of ' *sovereignty'* without knowing what it is all about---like children at a new toy in the market showroom.Rubi Bhuyan's point of view expressed in the Assam Net is of no consequence as far as I am concerned. I respectfully disagree with Mr.Nayanjyoti Medhi's opinion,voiced in this forum in regard to holding a plebiscite in Assam focusing solely on the sovereignty issue as demanded by the ULFA,who are itching to break-up a 60-year-old kaleidoscopic federation.Why do we have to hold a referendum,buckling under the pressure of an outfit that has been outlawed by the Government ? Is Assam an exclusive preserve of the ULFA ? The right to self-determination,if allowed in Assam,would then be reduced to a series of voting exorcises,conducted every 10 years or so in order to meet the demand of the new generation,at whose whim the border of a country could be defined and redefined.It will not be very difficult to imagine the chaos,it would create in a polyglot,multi-ethnic and multi-religious state as Assam's,if such recipe were to be applied state-wide as a solution. Kamal J Deka sugarland,Texas. On 10/13/07,* Nayanjyoti Medhi* [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Rubi, I thought since you have been following my postings in Assam online and Assamnet, You would be enlightened as to what, I as an Assamese would want for me and my fellowmen. But it saddens me because, maybe the one interacting with me and the one following my posts are probably not the same person. If both were the same person, then you would not have written this to me. Even if you ask Chandan Mahanta, he will tell you that I have been one of the few in Assamnet who has been advocating against the kiling of our own brothers and sisters. Whether it is in Bhutan, Burma, Arunachal or in their own backyards. I have even gone on record saying that there should be a plebiscite. Preferably a independent one where the Government agencies has no part/role to play. I had requested only one condition that there should be a guarantee that the people's wishes should be respected. I am on record that i have been advocating against killing. of innocents and others equally. But then how would you know. You are not the one following the posts. However I would suggest that you see the postings in Assamnet put there by me few days back. You will find that it is me who wrote that there
Re: [Assam] ULFA reply
As I understand it, according to Sri C. Mahanta, 15000 lives lost ( I do not know how this figure has been arrived at... whether it represents the number of ULFA cadres killed or Oxomiyas killed (including those in unintended cross-fires), whether it includes all lives lost including the non-oxomiyas) over 29 years is the objective basis making the plebiscite imperative. So, that is one measure. Has anyone made up his/her mind as to what should be the objective measure about the stage when such a vote becomes mandatory? kamal deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The GOI has similarly been willing to hold parleys with ULFA in order to hammer out a solution within the ambit of the Constitution.What is wrong with that ? KJD On 10/13/07, Chan Mahanta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The big vacuum of reason here I see is this: IF, Assam's OWNERS, I mean other those who sit in Dilli , so wish for an end to hostilities and can't figure out HOW, and if ULFA, the villains, declare that they will abide by the verdict of the people for whose sovereignty they gave nearly 15,000 Oxomiya lives over 29 years, then would it NOT make eminent sense to hold one? What am I missing here? Would it be sincerity of purpose ( of a hope for peace), or is that yet another display , albeit unintended, attempt to to have it both ways? At 3:57 AM +0100 10/14/07, uttam borthakur wrote: Living in a cave does not exclude the yearning or formation of wisdom as Plato would ask us to believe. The right to self-determination should not be denied to any people. But the question is: how the stage is to be assessed where a plebiscite becomes imperative. Simply because ULFA says that, should it be held? That NSCN or other outfits have claimed parts of the present Assam, should a plebiscite be held for that purpose in the disputed areas? In that case there would be no end to plebiscite and that is a very impractical thing. Then we will have to divide Assam to the size of the city states and have to decide every issue through citizens' vote! Now we have to assess whether the stage has come. I request everyone here or otherwise to find an objective measure of assessment. Moreover, could not the protagonists of secession consider building up of the opinion without training their guns on the people of Assam on the pretext of they being spies of the 'state' etc? The covert organisations always fall prey to the guiles of the 'state' they fight by killing their own due to suspicion and sometimes intra-organisational feud. Better they do things under the sun taking people as their forte rather than ineffectual guns. If the majority of the people feel that they should protect themselves with guns, I would not oppose that. But the people do not need a few to 'protect' and/or'kill' some of them on whimsy on the pleas of mistaken identity, cross-fire etc. kamal deka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rubi Bhuyan and the people of his/her ilk must be living in a cave,totally detached from the ground realities of Assam.They are merely prodding at the body of ' sovereignty' without knowing what it is all about---like children at a new toy in the market showroom.Rubi Bhuyan's point of view expressed in the Assam Net is of no consequence as far as I am concerned. I respectfully disagree with Mr.Nayanjyoti Medhi's opinion,voiced in this forum in regard to holding a plebiscite in Assam focusing solely on the sovereignty issue as demanded by the ULFA,who are itching to break-up a 60-year-old kaleidoscopic federation.Why do we have to hold a referendum,buckling under the pressure of an outfit that has been outlawed by the Government ? Is Assam an exclusive preserve of the ULFA ? The right to self-determination,if allowed in Assam,would then be reduced to a series of voting exorcises,conducted every 10 years or so in order to meet the demand of the new generation,at whose whim the border of a country could be defined and redefined.It will not be very difficult to imagine the chaos,it would create in a polyglot,multi-ethnic and multi-religious state as Assam's,if such recipe were to be applied state-wide as a solution. Kamal J Deka sugarland,Texas. On 10/13/07, Nayanjyoti Medhi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Rubi, I thought since you have been following my postings in Assam online and Assamnet, You would be enlightened as to what, I as an Assamese would want for me and my fellowmen. But it saddens me because, maybe the one interacting with me and the one following my posts are probably not the same person. If both were the same person, then you would not have written this to me. Even if you ask Chandan Mahanta, he will tell you that I have been one of the few in Assamnet who has been advocating against the kiling of our own brothers and sisters.
