Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis- the flip side of the story
[THIS IS A REJOINDER FROM SRI SANJIB GOSWAMI, MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA, who after knowing that I had put his views into Assamnet has asked me to send the remaining part that he had sent to his batch mates. I thought, why not, as the issue generated so much passion and ratiocination: -] " I do not know of that (definition of the Assamese...Ed.) as you have to define yourselves. Had you been in the tea tribe, you would have qualified for being an adivasi while in Tinsukia, you would be a Hindiwalla and beaten up by AASU thugs. My ancestors (we have a written history of our ancestry) came from Nawadwip, Bengal about 15 generations ago and since each generation is about 25 years, we are in Nalbari at the same spot (Nalbari Satra) for the last 400 years or so. I found an interesting statics on the net .. the data of 1941 census. It states that in 1941, the number of muslims in Assam was 34,42,479 and the number of non-muslims (not Hindus alone) was 67,62,254. So about 50% muslims (mostly Bengali speaking whom we refer to as Bangladeshis these days). These people were all concentrated in and around the river areas (water is their element and they never ever live in hills). Except for Shylet, the geography of Assam since 1941 has not undergone much change as far as Bangladesh in concerned. But, since the other non muslims like Nagas, Khasis and Arunachalis have left us, the number of Assamese Hindus have obviously reduced and by default the muslims have relatively increased. We then divide and subdivide our districts further, and put the muslims in one district (like Goalpara divided into Dhubri / Goalpara / Bongaigaon) and then shout that one more district has become muslim dominated..!! See, look at Dhubri or Hailakandi (carved out of Cachar)!! My argument is not in favour of illegal immigrants or anything like that. There are laws for that ...!! But to club every lungiwalla mussalman as a Bangladeshi is not right. What happened to the 34,42,479 lungiwalla mussalman of 1941 and their off springs ?? Rintu P.S. I shall not write any more on this topic..." Uttam Kumar Borthakur ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
On Aug 19, 2010, at 11:14 PM, kamal deka wrote: > You are one who blabbered about root cause,not me. Just so we are clear on WHAT root causes I might have blabbered about, will you tell us what the CONTEXT of that was? Why I ask is to make sure everybody knows if it is ACTUALLY about such root-cause issues or if it was about projecting one issue on an entirely different one to fit one's own agenda. > The CM was elected > by the people but his opinion is certainly not in conformity withe > voice of the people.That was his own opinion.One has to be a > handicapped not to understand that. > KJD So, are you suggesting that the desi-demokrasy, the one you and a few others wave around to legitimize Indian misgovernment does NOT actually even ensure that a state CM could be responsive to his citizenry's wishes? Or do you not accept the verdict of such a 'democratic' process? Not that we don't know the answer. I am asking you to explain how you explain the obvious contradiction. Finally, WHO is RESPONSIBLE for border protection and immigration control? Do you know or are scared to say out loud :-)? Also, even though I don't particularly enjoy badgering people, particularly my fellow men in this forum, I must also ask if my illustration of 'argumentum ad hominem' was satisfactory, lest it is raised tomorrow, forgetting all about today, like in so many cases my fellow netters are adept at doing ? > > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >>> There we have a CM who openly says that there are no >>> >>> aliens in Assam.That says a lot. >> >> >> That CM is a duly ELECTED one according to the standards of >> desi-demokrasy. Are you suggesting he does NOT represent the voice of Assam? >> >> And are you also suggesting that the Kongress Party is an independent >> entity, that answers to its constituents, the people of Assam alone? >> >> >>> I was referring to you and not the population. >> >> I am a THIRD party, observing and analyzing. I don't have a stake in >> Assam. I left long, long ago. It is quite immaterial to Assam what MY views >> , OPINIONS, might be. But what cannot be discounted, diluted or otherwise >> made less important by MY personal views or opinions is the FACT ofd WHO is >> responsible for border protection, immigration control and such. >> >> So, to use my persona to evade my question, to obfuscate, IS a classic >> example of argumentum ad hominem. And I rest my case :-). >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 19, 2010, at 10:51 PM, kamal deka wrote: >> >>> I was referring to you and not the population.The people of Assam are >>> well-cognizant about that.I disagree because they are illegals.As >>> simple as that.There we have a CM who openly says that there are no >>> aliens in Assam.That says a lot. >>> KJD >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:39 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: You are such a fun and funny guy K! Takes little to get you rolling :-). > HE CAUSE OR SOLUTION CAN ONLY BE FOUND FOR ANY PROBLEM IF THE > EXISTENCE OF THE SAME IS ACCEPTED FIRST.IF THE PEOPLE REFUSE TO > RECOGNISE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM,WHITHER SOLUTION?A GRAND CHARADE > INDEED. You need to get this vetted with your cheering section :-). I understood earlier that only certain SEGMENTS of Assam does not consider it a problem. Are you suggesting the "population" at large does not consider it a problem, and that is why, those who are responsible and who have the resources have not taken it seriously or done anything about it? Yes, a CHARADE it certainly is, except not played by those who you seem to hold responsible. It is a charade being played by those who are unable to acknowledge where the problem lies. > FOR SOME KHARKHOWAS,IT HAS BECOME A FASHION TO SAY THAT ILLEGAL > BANGLADEHIS ARE THE MUSCLE AND SINEW OF OUR COMMUNITY!!! In some ways some of them have become that. Do you disagree? And if you do, why? > WHY SQUARELY BLAME DELHI? Far be it for me than to blame Delhi. What do I know about who the responsibility lies with. I was merely asking who YOU think is responsible, who is bound by that SACRED constitution to provide border security, immigration control, apprehension, adjudication and deportation of illegals and so forth? You seem to suggest it is NOT Dilli's responsibility, on the pretext that the "population" of Assam does not care. On that front may I ask you if you heard about that "andwlon" from way back in the 80's and what it was all about? > SET YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER FIRST.THAT WOULD BE WISER. > *** That sure sounds like words of the wise. Question is WHOSE house you are referring to?
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
You are such a fun and funny guy K! Takes little to get you rolling :-). > HE CAUSE OR SOLUTION CAN ONLY BE FOUND FOR ANY PROBLEM IF THE > EXISTENCE OF THE SAME IS ACCEPTED FIRST.IF THE PEOPLE REFUSE TO > RECOGNISE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM,WHITHER SOLUTION?A GRAND CHARADE > INDEED. You need to get this vetted with your cheering section :-). I understood earlier that only certain SEGMENTS of Assam does not consider it a problem. Are you suggesting the "population" at large does not consider it a problem, and that is why, those who are responsible and who have the resources have not taken it seriously or done anything about it? Yes, a CHARADE it certainly is, except not played by those who you seem to hold responsible. It is a charade being played by those who are unable to acknowledge where the problem lies. > FOR SOME KHARKHOWAS,IT HAS BECOME A FASHION TO SAY THAT ILLEGAL > BANGLADEHIS ARE THE MUSCLE AND SINEW OF OUR COMMUNITY!!! In some ways some of them have become that. Do you disagree? And if you do, why? > WHY SQUARELY BLAME DELHI? Far be it for me than to blame Delhi. What do I know about who the responsibility lies with. I was merely asking who YOU think is responsible, who is bound by that SACRED constitution to provide border security, immigration control, apprehension, adjudication and deportation of illegals and so forth? You seem to suggest it is NOT Dilli's responsibility, on the pretext that the "population" of Assam does not care. On that front may I ask you if you heard about that "andwlon" from way back in the 80's and what it was all about? >SET YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER FIRST.THAT WOULD BE WISER. > *** That sure sounds like words of the wise. Question is WHOSE house you are referring to? On Aug 19, 2010, at 7:56 PM, kamal deka wrote: It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge the MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end<<< > > I was about to hit the ceiling laughing:-).PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE > HORSE? THE CAUSE OR SOLUTION CAN ONLY BE FOUND FOR ANY PROBLEM IF THE > EXISTENCE OF THE SAME IS ACCEPTED FIRST.IF THE PEOPLE REFUSE TO > RECOGNISE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM,WHITHER SOLUTION?A GRAND CHARADE > INDEED. > > FOR SOME KHARKHOWAS,IT HAS BECOME A FASHION TO SAY THAT ILLEGAL > BANGLADEHIS ARE THE MUSCLE AND SINEW OF OUR COMMUNITY!!! > > WHY SQUARELY BLAME DELHI? WHAT ABOUT OUR OWN BUTTERBALL KHARKHOWA > REPS.? THEY HAVE BEEN LIVING IN A CAVE FOR LONG TIME TOTALLY DETACHED > > SET YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER FIRST.THAT WOULD BE WISER. > > KJD > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >>> First,two wrongs don't make a right. >> >> It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the >> question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge the >> MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end, is no different than 'the >> apathetic people' of Assam that a few of you try to hold RESPONSIBLE for >> the problem, as Ram has so eloquently demonstrated :-). >> >> Question would be why? Why are you so afraid to give a straight answer >> instead of resorting to subterfuges? >> >> >> >>> Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch >>> criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so >>> that the thugs could have field day. >> >> It couldn't be farther from the truth. Ram's premise was that the >> 'population' is 'accepting of it' >> and that it 'cherry picks' --- opportunities to demonize his India. >> >> If that cherry-picking hurts his or your sentiments so, why can't you show >> us WHAT your keepers and >> mai-baap at Dilli, who is RESPONSIBLE for it and has the RESOURCES , been >> doing all these years >> with the help and collusion of its puppets at Dispur? >> >> And IF "the population" is "accepting" who is Ram or you, expatriates, to >> take issue with it? >> >> So which part of these amounts to arguing that two wrongs make a right >> or any such thing, even remotely? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 18, 2010, at 10:33 PM, kamal deka wrote: >> >> : Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it >> to secure the borders?<<< >>> Two things again: >>> First,two wrongs don't make a right. >>> Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch >>> criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so >>> that the thugs could have field day. >>> KJD >>> >>> B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you >>> premise, who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? >>> What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take >>> issue with it, other than your personal >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > The central theme is such cases is > Assam i
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
Again,my response was undertaken based on your observation.Good night. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >>There we have a CM who openly says that there are no >> >> aliens in Assam.That says a lot. > > > That CM is a duly ELECTED one according to the standards of > desi-demokrasy. Are you suggesting he does NOT represent the voice of Assam? > > And are you also suggesting that the Kongress Party is an independent entity, > that answers to its constituents, the people of Assam alone? > > >>I was referring to you and not the population. > > I am a THIRD party, observing and analyzing. I don't have a stake in > Assam. I left long, long ago. It is quite immaterial to Assam what MY views , > OPINIONS, might be. But what cannot be discounted, diluted or otherwise > made less important by MY personal views or opinions is the FACT ofd WHO is > responsible for border protection, immigration control and such. > > So, to use my persona to evade my question, to obfuscate, IS a classic > example of argumentum ad hominem. And I rest my case :-). > > > > > > > > > On Aug 19, 2010, at 10:51 PM, kamal deka wrote: > >> I was referring to you and not the population.The people of Assam are >> well-cognizant about that.I disagree because they are illegals.As >> simple as that.There we have a CM who openly says that there are no >> aliens in Assam.That says a lot. >> KJD >> >> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:39 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >>> You are such a fun and funny guy K! Takes little to get you rolling :-). >>> >>> HE CAUSE OR SOLUTION CAN ONLY BE FOUND FOR ANY PROBLEM IF THE EXISTENCE OF THE SAME IS ACCEPTED FIRST.IF THE PEOPLE REFUSE TO RECOGNISE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM,WHITHER SOLUTION?A GRAND CHARADE INDEED. >>> >>> >>> You need to get this vetted with your cheering section :-). I >>> understood earlier that only >>> certain SEGMENTS of Assam does not consider it a problem. Are you >>> suggesting the "population" at large >>> does not consider it a problem, and that is why, those who are responsible >>> and who have the resources >>> have not taken it seriously or done anything about it? >>> >>> Yes, a CHARADE it certainly is, except not played by those who you seem to >>> hold responsible. It is a charade >>> being played by those who are unable to acknowledge where the problem lies. >>> >>> FOR SOME KHARKHOWAS,IT HAS BECOME A FASHION TO SAY THAT ILLEGAL BANGLADEHIS ARE THE MUSCLE AND SINEW OF OUR COMMUNITY!!! >>> >>> >>> In some ways some of them have become that. Do you disagree? And if >>> you do, why? >>> WHY SQUARELY BLAME DELHI? >>> >>> Far be it for me than to blame Delhi. What do I know about who the >>> responsibility lies with. >>> I was merely asking who YOU think is responsible, who is bound by that >>> SACRED constitution to >>> provide border security, immigration control, apprehension, adjudication >>> and deportation of illegals >>> and so forth? >>> >>> You seem to suggest it is NOT Dilli's responsibility, on the pretext that >>> the "population" of Assam does not care. >>> >>> On that front may I ask you if you heard about that "andwlon" from way >>> back in the 80's and what it was all >>> about? >>> >>> SET YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER FIRST.THAT WOULD BE WISER. >>> >>> >>> *** That sure sounds like words of the wise. Question is WHOSE house you >>> are referring to? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Aug 19, 2010, at 7:56 PM, kamal deka wrote: >>> >>> It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the >>> question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge >>> the MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end<<< I was about to hit the ceiling laughing:-).PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE? THE CAUSE OR SOLUTION CAN ONLY BE FOUND FOR ANY PROBLEM IF THE EXISTENCE OF THE SAME IS ACCEPTED FIRST.IF THE PEOPLE REFUSE TO RECOGNISE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM,WHITHER SOLUTION?A GRAND CHARADE INDEED. FOR SOME KHARKHOWAS,IT HAS BECOME A FASHION TO SAY THAT ILLEGAL BANGLADEHIS ARE THE MUSCLE AND SINEW OF OUR COMMUNITY!!! WHY SQUARELY BLAME DELHI? WHAT ABOUT OUR OWN BUTTERBALL KHARKHOWA REPS.? THEY HAVE BEEN LIVING IN A CAVE FOR LONG TIME TOTALLY DETACHED SET YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER FIRST.THAT WOULD BE WISER. KJD On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >> First,two wrongs don't make a right. > > It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the > question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge > the MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end, is no different > than 'the apathetic people' of Assam that a few of you try to hold > RESPONSIBLE for the problem, as Ram has so eloquently demonstrated :-). > > Question would be why? Why are you so afraid
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
You are one who blabbered about root cause,not me.The CM was elected by the people but his opinion is certainly not in conformity withe voice of the people.That was his own opinion.One has to be a handicapped not to understand that. KJD On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 11:03 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >>There we have a CM who openly says that there are no >> >> aliens in Assam.That says a lot. > > > That CM is a duly ELECTED one according to the standards of > desi-demokrasy. Are you suggesting he does NOT represent the voice of Assam? > > And are you also suggesting that the Kongress Party is an independent entity, > that answers to its constituents, the people of Assam alone? > > >>I was referring to you and not the population. > > I am a THIRD party, observing and analyzing. I don't have a stake in > Assam. I left long, long ago. It is quite immaterial to Assam what MY views , > OPINIONS, might be. But what cannot be discounted, diluted or otherwise > made less important by MY personal views or opinions is the FACT ofd WHO is > responsible for border protection, immigration control and such. > > So, to use my persona to evade my question, to obfuscate, IS a classic > example of argumentum ad hominem. And I rest my case :-). > > > > > > > > > On Aug 19, 2010, at 10:51 PM, kamal deka wrote: > >> I was referring to you and not the population.The people of Assam are >> well-cognizant about that.I disagree because they are illegals.As >> simple as that.There we have a CM who openly says that there are no >> aliens in Assam.That says a lot. >> KJD >> >> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:39 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >>> You are such a fun and funny guy K! Takes little to get you rolling :-). >>> >>> HE CAUSE OR SOLUTION CAN ONLY BE FOUND FOR ANY PROBLEM IF THE EXISTENCE OF THE SAME IS ACCEPTED FIRST.IF THE PEOPLE REFUSE TO RECOGNISE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM,WHITHER SOLUTION?A GRAND CHARADE INDEED. >>> >>> >>> You need to get this vetted with your cheering section :-). I >>> understood earlier that only >>> certain SEGMENTS of Assam does not consider it a problem. Are you >>> suggesting the "population" at large >>> does not consider it a problem, and that is why, those who are responsible >>> and who have the resources >>> have not taken it seriously or done anything about it? >>> >>> Yes, a CHARADE it certainly is, except not played by those who you seem to >>> hold responsible. It is a charade >>> being played by those who are unable to acknowledge where the problem lies. >>> >>> FOR SOME KHARKHOWAS,IT HAS BECOME A FASHION TO SAY THAT ILLEGAL BANGLADEHIS ARE THE MUSCLE AND SINEW OF OUR COMMUNITY!!! >>> >>> >>> In some ways some of them have become that. Do you disagree? And if >>> you do, why? >>> WHY SQUARELY BLAME DELHI? >>> >>> Far be it for me than to blame Delhi. What do I know about who the >>> responsibility lies with. >>> I was merely asking who YOU think is responsible, who is bound by that >>> SACRED constitution to >>> provide border security, immigration control, apprehension, adjudication >>> and deportation of illegals >>> and so forth? >>> >>> You seem to suggest it is NOT Dilli's responsibility, on the pretext that >>> the "population" of Assam does not care. >>> >>> On that front may I ask you if you heard about that "andwlon" from way >>> back in the 80's and what it was all >>> about? >>> >>> SET YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER FIRST.THAT WOULD BE WISER. >>> >>> >>> *** That sure sounds like words of the wise. Question is WHOSE house you >>> are referring to? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Aug 19, 2010, at 7:56 PM, kamal deka wrote: >>> >>> It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the >>> question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge >>> the MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end<<< I was about to hit the ceiling laughing:-).PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE? THE CAUSE OR SOLUTION CAN ONLY BE FOUND FOR ANY PROBLEM IF THE EXISTENCE OF THE SAME IS ACCEPTED FIRST.IF THE PEOPLE REFUSE TO RECOGNISE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM,WHITHER SOLUTION?A GRAND CHARADE INDEED. FOR SOME KHARKHOWAS,IT HAS BECOME A FASHION TO SAY THAT ILLEGAL BANGLADEHIS ARE THE MUSCLE AND SINEW OF OUR COMMUNITY!!! WHY SQUARELY BLAME DELHI? WHAT ABOUT OUR OWN BUTTERBALL KHARKHOWA REPS.? THEY HAVE BEEN LIVING IN A CAVE FOR LONG TIME TOTALLY DETACHED SET YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER FIRST.THAT WOULD BE WISER. KJD On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >> First,two wrongs don't make a right. > > It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the > question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge > the MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end, is no different > than 'the apathetic people' of Assam
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
>There we have a CM who openly says that there are no > > aliens in Assam.That says a lot. That CM is a duly ELECTED one according to the standards of desi-demokrasy. Are you suggesting he does NOT represent the voice of Assam? And are you also suggesting that the Kongress Party is an independent entity, that answers to its constituents, the people of Assam alone? >I was referring to you and not the population. I am a THIRD party, observing and analyzing. I don't have a stake in Assam. I left long, long ago. It is quite immaterial to Assam what MY views , OPINIONS, might be. But what cannot be discounted, diluted or otherwise made less important by MY personal views or opinions is the FACT ofd WHO is responsible for border protection, immigration control and such. So, to use my persona to evade my question, to obfuscate, IS a classic example of argumentum ad hominem. And I rest my case :-). On Aug 19, 2010, at 10:51 PM, kamal deka wrote: > I was referring to you and not the population.The people of Assam are > well-cognizant about that.I disagree because they are illegals.As > simple as that.There we have a CM who openly says that there are no > aliens in Assam.That says a lot. > KJD > > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:39 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >> You are such a fun and funny guy K! Takes little to get you rolling :-). >> >> >>> HE CAUSE OR SOLUTION CAN ONLY BE FOUND FOR ANY PROBLEM IF THE >>> EXISTENCE OF THE SAME IS ACCEPTED FIRST.IF THE PEOPLE REFUSE TO >>> RECOGNISE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM,WHITHER SOLUTION?A GRAND CHARADE >>> INDEED. >> >> >> You need to get this vetted with your cheering section :-). I >> understood earlier that only >> certain SEGMENTS of Assam does not consider it a problem. Are you suggesting >> the "population" at large >> does not consider it a problem, and that is why, those who are responsible >> and who have the resources >> have not taken it seriously or done anything about it? >> >> Yes, a CHARADE it certainly is, except not played by those who you seem to >> hold responsible. It is a charade >> being played by those who are unable to acknowledge where the problem lies. >> >> >>> FOR SOME KHARKHOWAS,IT HAS BECOME A FASHION TO SAY THAT ILLEGAL >>> BANGLADEHIS ARE THE MUSCLE AND SINEW OF OUR COMMUNITY!!! >> >> >> In some ways some of them have become that. Do you disagree? And if >> you do, why? >> >>> WHY SQUARELY BLAME DELHI? >> >> Far be it for me than to blame Delhi. What do I know about who the >> responsibility lies with. >> I was merely asking who YOU think is responsible, who is bound by that >> SACRED constitution to >> provide border security, immigration control, apprehension, adjudication and >> deportation of illegals >> and so forth? >> >> You seem to suggest it is NOT Dilli's responsibility, on the pretext that >> the "population" of Assam does not care. >> >> On that front may I ask you if you heard about that "andwlon" from way back >> in the 80's and what it was all >> about? >> >> >>> SET YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER FIRST.THAT WOULD BE WISER. >>> >> >> >> *** That sure sounds like words of the wise. Question is WHOSE house you are >> referring to? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 19, 2010, at 7:56 PM, kamal deka wrote: >> >> It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the >> question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge >> the MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end<<< >>> >>> I was about to hit the ceiling laughing:-).PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE >>> HORSE? THE CAUSE OR SOLUTION CAN ONLY BE FOUND FOR ANY PROBLEM IF THE >>> EXISTENCE OF THE SAME IS ACCEPTED FIRST.IF THE PEOPLE REFUSE TO >>> RECOGNISE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM,WHITHER SOLUTION?A GRAND CHARADE >>> INDEED. >>> >>> FOR SOME KHARKHOWAS,IT HAS BECOME A FASHION TO SAY THAT ILLEGAL >>> BANGLADEHIS ARE THE MUSCLE AND SINEW OF OUR COMMUNITY!!! >>> >>> WHY SQUARELY BLAME DELHI? WHAT ABOUT OUR OWN BUTTERBALL KHARKHOWA >>> REPS.? THEY HAVE BEEN LIVING IN A CAVE FOR LONG TIME TOTALLY DETACHED >>> >>> SET YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER FIRST.THAT WOULD BE WISER. >>> >>> KJD >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > First,two wrongs don't make a right. It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge the MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end, is no different than 'the apathetic people' of Assam that a few of you try to hold RESPONSIBLE for the problem, as Ram has so eloquently demonstrated :-). Question would be why? Why are you so afraid to give a straight answer instead of resorting to subterfuges? > Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch > criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
I was referring to you and not the population.The people of Assam are well-cognizant about that.I disagree because they are illegals.As simple as that.There we have a CM who openly says that there are no aliens in Assam.That says a lot. KJD On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:39 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > You are such a fun and funny guy K! Takes little to get you rolling :-). > > >> HE CAUSE OR SOLUTION CAN ONLY BE FOUND FOR ANY PROBLEM IF THE >> EXISTENCE OF THE SAME IS ACCEPTED FIRST.IF THE PEOPLE REFUSE TO >> RECOGNISE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM,WHITHER SOLUTION?A GRAND CHARADE >> INDEED. > > > You need to get this vetted with your cheering section :-). I understood > earlier that only > certain SEGMENTS of Assam does not consider it a problem. Are you suggesting > the "population" at large > does not consider it a problem, and that is why, those who are responsible > and who have the resources > have not taken it seriously or done anything about it? > > Yes, a CHARADE it certainly is, except not played by those who you seem to > hold responsible. It is a charade > being played by those who are unable to acknowledge where the problem lies. > > >> FOR SOME KHARKHOWAS,IT HAS BECOME A FASHION TO SAY THAT ILLEGAL >> BANGLADEHIS ARE THE MUSCLE AND SINEW OF OUR COMMUNITY!!! > > > In some ways some of them have become that. Do you disagree? And if you > do, why? > >> WHY SQUARELY BLAME DELHI? > > Far be it for me than to blame Delhi. What do I know about who the > responsibility lies with. > I was merely asking who YOU think is responsible, who is bound by that SACRED > constitution to > provide border security, immigration control, apprehension, adjudication and > deportation of illegals > and so forth? > > You seem to suggest it is NOT Dilli's responsibility, on the pretext that the > "population" of Assam does not care. > > On that front may I ask you if you heard about that "andwlon" from way back > in the 80's and what it was all > about? > > >>SET YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER FIRST.THAT WOULD BE WISER. >> > > > *** That sure sounds like words of the wise. Question is WHOSE house you are > referring to? > > > > > > > > On Aug 19, 2010, at 7:56 PM, kamal deka wrote: > > It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the > question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge > the MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end<<< >> >> I was about to hit the ceiling laughing:-).PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE >> HORSE? THE CAUSE OR SOLUTION CAN ONLY BE FOUND FOR ANY PROBLEM IF THE >> EXISTENCE OF THE SAME IS ACCEPTED FIRST.IF THE PEOPLE REFUSE TO >> RECOGNISE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM,WHITHER SOLUTION?A GRAND CHARADE >> INDEED. >> >> FOR SOME KHARKHOWAS,IT HAS BECOME A FASHION TO SAY THAT ILLEGAL >> BANGLADEHIS ARE THE MUSCLE AND SINEW OF OUR COMMUNITY!!! >> >> WHY SQUARELY BLAME DELHI? WHAT ABOUT OUR OWN BUTTERBALL KHARKHOWA >> REPS.? THEY HAVE BEEN LIVING IN A CAVE FOR LONG TIME TOTALLY DETACHED >> >> SET YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER FIRST.THAT WOULD BE WISER. >> >> KJD >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: First,two wrongs don't make a right. >>> >>> It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the >>> question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge the >>> MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end, is no different than >>> 'the apathetic people' of Assam that a few of you try to hold RESPONSIBLE >>> for the problem, as Ram has so eloquently demonstrated :-). >>> >>> Question would be why? Why are you so afraid to give a straight answer >>> instead of resorting to subterfuges? >>> >>> >>> Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so that the thugs could have field day. >>> >>> It couldn't be farther from the truth. Ram's premise was that the >>> 'population' is 'accepting of it' >>> and that it 'cherry picks' --- opportunities to demonize his India. >>> >>> If that cherry-picking hurts his or your sentiments so, why can't you show >>> us WHAT your keepers and >>> mai-baap at Dilli, who is RESPONSIBLE for it and has the RESOURCES , been >>> doing all these years >>> with the help and collusion of its puppets at Dispur? >>> >>> And IF "the population" is "accepting" who is Ram or you, expatriates, to >>> take issue with it? >>> >>> So which part of these amounts to arguing that two wrongs make a right >>> or any such thing, even remotely? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Aug 18, 2010, at 10:33 PM, kamal deka wrote: >>> >>> : Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it >>> to secure the borders?<<< Two things again: First,two wrongs don't make a right. Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
>>>It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the question >>>to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge the MAIN cause >>>while shedding tears over it to no end<<< I was about to hit the ceiling laughing:-).PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE? THE CAUSE OR SOLUTION CAN ONLY BE FOUND FOR ANY PROBLEM IF THE EXISTENCE OF THE SAME IS ACCEPTED FIRST.IF THE PEOPLE REFUSE TO RECOGNISE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM,WHITHER SOLUTION?A GRAND CHARADE INDEED. FOR SOME KHARKHOWAS,IT HAS BECOME A FASHION TO SAY THAT ILLEGAL BANGLADEHIS ARE THE MUSCLE AND SINEW OF OUR COMMUNITY!!! WHY SQUARELY BLAME DELHI? WHAT ABOUT OUR OWN BUTTERBALL KHARKHOWA REPS.? THEY HAVE BEEN LIVING IN A CAVE FOR LONG TIME TOTALLY DETACHED SET YOUR OWN HOUSE IN ORDER FIRST.THAT WOULD BE WISER. KJD On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >>First,two wrongs don't make a right. > > It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the > question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge the > MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end, is no different than 'the > apathetic people' of Assam that a few of you try to hold RESPONSIBLE for the > problem, as Ram has so eloquently demonstrated :-). > > Question would be why? Why are you so afraid to give a straight answer > instead of resorting to subterfuges? > > > >> Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch >> criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so >> that the thugs could have field day. > > It couldn't be farther from the truth. Ram's premise was that the > 'population' is 'accepting of it' > and that it 'cherry picks' --- opportunities to demonize his India. > > If that cherry-picking hurts his or your sentiments so, why can't you show us > WHAT your keepers and > mai-baap at Dilli, who is RESPONSIBLE for it and has the RESOURCES , been > doing all these years > with the help and collusion of its puppets at Dispur? > > And IF "the population" is "accepting" who is Ram or you, expatriates, to > take issue with it? > > So which part of these amounts to arguing that two wrongs make a right > or any such thing, even remotely? > > > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2010, at 10:33 PM, kamal deka wrote: > > : Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it > to secure the borders?<<< >> Two things again: >> First,two wrongs don't make a right. >> Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch >> criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so >> that the thugs could have field day. >> KJD >> >> B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you >> premise, who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? >> What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take >> issue with it, other than your personal >> >> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: The central theme is such cases is Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it needs to be separate from India. >>> >>> >>> That is what IMAGINING a national identity is all about. What is >>> India? How is it different from Pakistan, or B'desh, or Nepal or SriLanka. >>> All national identities are born out of a imaginations trhat they are. >>> There are NO rules that govern it. >>> >>> Or are there? >>> >>> >>> n many a case I suspect, the aim is cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them best. >>> >>> >>> >>> Let us accept the premise here. If so, is there a law against that? Or >>> is it unethical according to some standard of ethical practices? >>> Who are these conspirators who choose to cherry pick? And WHAT IS their >>> interest, their motives? >>> >>> >>> >>> Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing the entire political landscape of these regions. >>> >>> >>> >>> TWO points to note here: >>> >>> A: Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it to >>> secure the borders? >>> >>> B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you premise, who >>> are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? >>> What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take issue >>> with it, other than your personal >>> preferences or, more precisely, prejudices? >>> >>> >>> finally, I think Sanjiv Goswami is exactly right with his analyses >>> and conclusions. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Aug 18, 2010, at 7:45 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >>> Very well put KJD. Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is >>>
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
To stick to one's known and stay away from unknown is a human instinctive trait which can be termed as " compartmentalisation". There is no gainsaying the fact that ethnologically tribal people are distinct from the people of the plains.At the same time one should not think that hill people have much homogeneity and cohesion.A tribal tends to think primarily in terms of his village or clan.Nor do the tribes have common language.Sometimes the sub-tribes of the same tribe also speak different languages.For inter-tribal contacts they have to depend largely on Hindi or Assamese.As a result each tribe has preserved its own pattern of social organisations and culture and each tribe has its own laws and customs.The hill tribes,in fact,were described in the past as " block of self-governing community" If you think that the representatives( MPs OR MLAs) of the tribal people can be dismissed off as " COMMISSION AGENTS", THEN WHY, ON EARTH,MUST ANY ONE PUT THE BLAME ROUNDLY ON THE ASSAMESE FOR THOSE WHEELERS AND DEALERS? KJD On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:15 AM, uttam borthakur wrote: >> There is a vacuous assumption of commonality among the people of the >> Northeastern states of India.What exactly does the average Assamese have >> in common with a Mizo,Naga or Arunachali?Very little.There is nothing >> that makes one feel kinship with other apart from the small matter of >> their sitting adjacent to each other.There are few cultural bonds >> between the various Northeastern states and the region does not share a >> common language or religious heritage,which can sometimes form > the basis of cross national identity. > That explains one of the factors for the fissiparous tendencies broached > earlier. Imposition of one's language, culture, hegemony over people having > no commonality. It creates grounds for disaffection and hinders assimilation. > Today, there is a protest rally in Garo hills seeking a different state to be > carved out of Meghalaya. Probably the Khasis are imposing themselves on the > Garos there, though Garos surely have representation in the assembly. > Representation in the assembly/ parliament does not mean a thing in India, > which should be quite apparent by now, because they do not represent people, > but are mostly commission agents (there are exceptions no doubt). > By now, the news must have reached everyone (I posted a link a few days ago > 'Revenge of Memories' in respect of Union Carbide/ Dow Chemicals culpability > in Bhopal) that American Masters have directed their agents MMS/ Montek/ PC & > Co. to go slow on Dow Chemicals; and in compliance the knaves, being > pro-active than the masters, have already (before even being ordered ) > desisted from prosecuting the case in the US soils to make the 'Polluter > Pay". The Ministerial Committee has recommended cleaning up through tax > payers money ( with mumbles about prosecuting the case vigorously which is > lip-service as evident from action). Just contrast it with Obama throwing the > book at BP! > Ideas often are vested interest. Ram Da, do we need maturity in the democracy > or doing away with a system that is tailor-made for commission agency ? > > > > > > Uttam Kumar Borthakur > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis- The flip side of the story
That is a lovely explanation Uttam. A benevolent one for sure. I suspect there are less benevolent ones too :-). On Aug 19, 2010, at 10:59 AM, uttam borthakur wrote: Question therefore should be WHAT fortifies this wall of denial? > XXX I should think various factors would collaborate here. For a person with > vested interest, it would be in his own interest to subscribe to the view. > But for the otherwise well meaning people, there would be many factors, but > predominantly his world-outlook that explains things to him. Anything not > falling within the matrix would not be acceptable for quite a while, unless > something really shakes him up. Suppose someone says that ghosts do exist. I > may listen to him to humor him, but it would really take "something" to > change my views on ghosts especially so late in my life :-) > Uttam Kumar Borthakur > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis- The flip side of the story
>>>Question therefore should be WHAT fortifies this wall of denial? XXX I should think various factors would collaborate here. For a person with vested interest, it would be in his own interest to subscribe to the view. But for the otherwise well meaning people, there would be many factors, but predominantly his world-outlook that explains things to him. Anything not falling within the matrix would not be acceptable for quite a while, unless something really shakes him up. Suppose someone says that ghosts do exist. I may listen to him to humor him, but it would really take "something" to change my views on ghosts especially so late in my life :-) Uttam Kumar Borthakur ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
> Very briefly, I did not use the word "Population". > I did use "we find some groups of people demanding". And SOME GROUPS, does > not mean a whole "population". > OK, fine , NOT the 'population' but 'some groups'! But HOW could SOME groups' 'acceptance' therefore make it as pervasive a problem ? WHO are these omnipotent groups that have imposed their will over the "POPULATION"? Is it a believable villain or a straw-man? On Aug 19, 2010, at 9:00 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > Very briefly, I did not use the word "Population". > I did use "we find some groups of people demanding". And SOME GROUPS, does > not mean a whole "population". > > A simple, innocent word slipped in could change the entire meaning and > context. Happens quite a lot in this net :-) > > On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >>> First,two wrongs don't make a right. >> >> It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the >> question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge the >> MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end, is no different than 'the >> apathetic people' of Assam that a few of you try to hold RESPONSIBLE for >> the problem, as Ram has so eloquently demonstrated :-). >> >> Question would be why? Why are you so afraid to give a straight answer >> instead of resorting to subterfuges? >> >> >> >>> Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch >>> criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so >>> that the thugs could have field day. >> >> It couldn't be farther from the truth. Ram's premise was that the >> 'population' is 'accepting of it' >> and that it 'cherry picks' --- opportunities to demonize his India. >> >> If that cherry-picking hurts his or your sentiments so, why can't you show >> us WHAT your keepers and >> mai-baap at Dilli, who is RESPONSIBLE for it and has the RESOURCES , been >> doing all these years >> with the help and collusion of its puppets at Dispur? >> >> And IF "the population" is "accepting" who is Ram or you, expatriates, to >> take issue with it? >> >> So which part of these amounts to arguing that two wrongs make a right >> or any such thing, even remotely? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 18, 2010, at 10:33 PM, kamal deka wrote: >> >> : Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is >> it to secure the borders?<<< >>> Two things again: >>> First,two wrongs don't make a right. >>> Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch >>> criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so >>> that the thugs could have field day. >>> KJD >>> >>> B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you >>> premise, who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? >>> What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take >>> issue with it, other than your personal >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Chan Mahanta >> wrote: > The central theme is such cases is > Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, >> that it > needs to be separate from India. That is what IMAGINING a national identity is all about. What is >> India? How is it different from Pakistan, or B'desh, or Nepal or SriLanka. All national identities are born out of a imaginations trhat they are. >> There are NO rules that govern it. Or are there? > n many a case I suspect, the aim is > > cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them > best. Let us accept the premise here. If so, is there a law against that? >> Or is it unethical according to some standard of ethical practices? Who are these conspirators who choose to cherry pick? And WHAT IS their >> interest, their motives? > Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally > entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby >> changing > the entire political landscape of these regions. TWO points to note here: A: Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it >> to secure the borders? B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you premise, >> who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take >> issue with it, other than your personal preferences or, more precisely, prejudices? finally, I think Sanjiv Goswami is exactly right with his analyses >> and conclusions. On Aug 18, 2010, at 7:45 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > Very well put KJD. > > Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. > > Quite often, we find some groups of peop
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
Very briefly, I did not use the word "Population". I did use "we find some groups of people demanding". And SOME GROUPS, does not mean a whole "population". A simple, innocent word slipped in could change the entire meaning and context. Happens quite a lot in this net :-) On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >First,two wrongs don't make a right. > > It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the > question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge the > MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end, is no different than 'the > apathetic people' of Assam that a few of you try to hold RESPONSIBLE for > the problem, as Ram has so eloquently demonstrated :-). > > Question would be why? Why are you so afraid to give a straight answer > instead of resorting to subterfuges? > > > > > Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch > > criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so > > that the thugs could have field day. > > It couldn't be farther from the truth. Ram's premise was that the > 'population' is 'accepting of it' > and that it 'cherry picks' --- opportunities to demonize his India. > > If that cherry-picking hurts his or your sentiments so, why can't you show > us WHAT your keepers and > mai-baap at Dilli, who is RESPONSIBLE for it and has the RESOURCES , been > doing all these years > with the help and collusion of its puppets at Dispur? > > And IF "the population" is "accepting" who is Ram or you, expatriates, to > take issue with it? > > So which part of these amounts to arguing that two wrongs make a right > or any such thing, even remotely? > > > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2010, at 10:33 PM, kamal deka wrote: > > : Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is > it to secure the borders?<<< > > Two things again: > > First,two wrongs don't make a right. > > Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch > > criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so > > that the thugs could have field day. > > KJD > > > > B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you > > premise, who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? > > What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take > > issue with it, other than your personal > > > > On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Chan Mahanta > wrote: > >>> The central theme is such cases is > >>> Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, > that it > >>> needs to be separate from India. > >> > >> > >> That is what IMAGINING a national identity is all about. What is > India? How is it different from Pakistan, or B'desh, or Nepal or SriLanka. > >> All national identities are born out of a imaginations trhat they are. > There are NO rules that govern it. > >> > >> Or are there? > >> > >> > >> > >>> n many a case I suspect, the aim is > >>> > >>> cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them > >>> best. > >> > >> > >> > >> Let us accept the premise here. If so, is there a law against that? > Or is it unethical according to some standard of ethical practices? > >> Who are these conspirators who choose to cherry pick? And WHAT IS their > interest, their motives? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally > >>> entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby > changing > >>> the entire political landscape of these regions. > >> > >> > >> > >> TWO points to note here: > >> > >> A: Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it > to secure the borders? > >> > >> B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you premise, > who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? > >> What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take > issue with it, other than your personal > >> preferences or, more precisely, prejudices? > >> > >> > >> finally, I think Sanjiv Goswami is exactly right with his analyses > and conclusions. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Aug 18, 2010, at 7:45 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >> > >>> Very well put KJD. > >>> > >>> Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. > >>> > >>> Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity > for > >>> Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases > is > >>> Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, > that it > >>> needs to be separate from India. > >>> > >>> Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally > >>> entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby > changing > >>> the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these > same > >>> folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone > is > >>> required to show empathy to the illegal im
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
>which should be quite apparent by now *** If it were we won't be having these debates. But there is a solid wall of denial of this reality that has led to where things stand today. Question therefore should be WHAT fortifies this wall of denial? On Aug 19, 2010, at 2:15 AM, uttam borthakur wrote: >> There is a vacuous assumption of commonality among the people of the >> Northeastern states of India.What exactly does the average Assamese have >> in common with a Mizo,Naga or Arunachali?Very little.There is nothing >> that makes one feel kinship with other apart from the small matter of >> their sitting adjacent to each other.There are few cultural bonds >> between the various Northeastern states and the region does not share a >> common language or religious heritage,which can sometimes form > the basis of cross national identity. > That explains one of the factors for the fissiparous tendencies broached > earlier. Imposition of one's language, culture, hegemony over people having > no commonality. It creates grounds for disaffection and hinders assimilation. > Today, there is a protest rally in Garo hills seeking a different state to be > carved out of Meghalaya. Probably the Khasis are imposing themselves on the > Garos there, though Garos surely have representation in the assembly. > Representation in the assembly/ parliament does not mean a thing in India, > which should be quite apparent by now, because they do not represent people, > but are mostly commission agents (there are exceptions no doubt). > By now, the news must have reached everyone (I posted a link a few days ago > 'Revenge of Memories' in respect of Union Carbide/ Dow Chemicals culpability > in Bhopal) that American Masters have directed their agents MMS/ Montek/ PC & > Co. to go slow on Dow Chemicals; and in compliance the knaves, being > pro-active than the masters, have already (before even being ordered ) > desisted from prosecuting the case in the US soils to make the 'Polluter > Pay". The Ministerial Committee has recommended cleaning up through tax > payers money ( with mumbles about prosecuting the case vigorously which is > lip-service as evident from action). Just contrast it with Obama throwing the > book at BP! > Ideas often are vested interest. Ram Da, do we need maturity in the democracy > or doing away with a system that is tailor-made for commission agency ? > > > > > > Uttam Kumar Borthakur > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
>First,two wrongs don't make a right. It is an evasive answer, attempt to change the subject. I ask the question to point to the ROOT of the problem. To refuse to acknowledge the MAIN cause while shedding tears over it to no end, is no different than 'the apathetic people' of Assam that a few of you try to hold RESPONSIBLE for the problem, as Ram has so eloquently demonstrated :-). Question would be why? Why are you so afraid to give a straight answer instead of resorting to subterfuges? > Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch > criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so > that the thugs could have field day. It couldn't be farther from the truth. Ram's premise was that the 'population' is 'accepting of it' and that it 'cherry picks' --- opportunities to demonize his India. If that cherry-picking hurts his or your sentiments so, why can't you show us WHAT your keepers and mai-baap at Dilli, who is RESPONSIBLE for it and has the RESOURCES , been doing all these years with the help and collusion of its puppets at Dispur? And IF "the population" is "accepting" who is Ram or you, expatriates, to take issue with it? So which part of these amounts to arguing that two wrongs make a right or any such thing, even remotely? On Aug 18, 2010, at 10:33 PM, kamal deka wrote: : Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it to secure the borders?<<< > Two things again: > First,two wrongs don't make a right. > Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch > criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so > that the thugs could have field day. > KJD > > B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you > premise, who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? > What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take > issue with it, other than your personal > > On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >>> The central theme is such cases is >>> Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it >>> needs to be separate from India. >> >> >> That is what IMAGINING a national identity is all about. What is >> India? How is it different from Pakistan, or B'desh, or Nepal or SriLanka. >> All national identities are born out of a imaginations trhat they are. There >> are NO rules that govern it. >> >> Or are there? >> >> >> >>> n many a case I suspect, the aim is >>> >>> cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them >>> best. >> >> >> >> Let us accept the premise here. If so, is there a law against that? Or >> is it unethical according to some standard of ethical practices? >> Who are these conspirators who choose to cherry pick? And WHAT IS their >> interest, their motives? >> >> >> >> >>> Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally >>> entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing >>> the entire political landscape of these regions. >> >> >> >> TWO points to note here: >> >> A: Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it to >> secure the borders? >> >> B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you premise, who >> are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? >> What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take issue >> with it, other than your personal >> preferences or, more precisely, prejudices? >> >> >> finally, I think Sanjiv Goswami is exactly right with his analyses and >> conclusions. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 18, 2010, at 7:45 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> Very well put KJD. >>> >>> Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. >>> >>> Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for >>> Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is >>> Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it >>> needs to be separate from India. >>> >>> Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally >>> entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing >>> the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these same >>> folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone is >>> required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are suggestions to >>> erase borders and think of the world with no borders. >>> >>> The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere between >>> these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim is >>> cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them >>> best. >>> >>> btw: Uttam - thanks for forwarding this. It is an important topic to be >>> discussing, and hopefully discussions are taken in that spirit. -- Ram da >>>
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
> There is a vacuous assumption of commonality among the people of the > Northeastern states of India.What exactly does the average Assamese have > in common with a Mizo,Naga or Arunachali?Very little.There is nothing > that makes one feel kinship with other apart from the small matter of > their sitting adjacent to each other.There are few cultural bonds between > the various Northeastern states and the region does not share a common > language or religious heritage,which can sometimes form the basis of cross national identity. That explains one of the factors for the fissiparous tendencies broached earlier. Imposition of one's language, culture, hegemony over people having no commonality. It creates grounds for disaffection and hinders assimilation. Today, there is a protest rally in Garo hills seeking a different state to be carved out of Meghalaya. Probably the Khasis are imposing themselves on the Garos there, though Garos surely have representation in the assembly. Representation in the assembly/ parliament does not mean a thing in India, which should be quite apparent by now, because they do not represent people, but are mostly commission agents (there are exceptions no doubt). By now, the news must have reached everyone (I posted a link a few days ago 'Revenge of Memories' in respect of Union Carbide/ Dow Chemicals culpability in Bhopal) that American Masters have directed their agents MMS/ Montek/ PC & Co. to go slow on Dow Chemicals; and in compliance the knaves, being pro-active than the masters, have already (before even being ordered ) desisted from prosecuting the case in the US soils to make the 'Polluter Pay". The Ministerial Committee has recommended cleaning up through tax payers money ( with mumbles about prosecuting the case vigorously which is lip-service as evident from action). Just contrast it with Obama throwing the book at BP! Ideas often are vested interest. Ram Da, do we need maturity in the democracy or doing away with a system that is tailor-made for commission agency ? Uttam Kumar Borthakur ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
>>>: Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it to >>>secure the borders?<<< Two things again: First,two wrongs don't make a right. Secondly,your explanation is like this: since the cop can't catch criminals,do away with the police department and criminal codes so that the thugs could have field day. KJD B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you premise, who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take issue with it, other than your personal On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Chan Mahanta wrote: >> The central theme is such cases is >> Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it >> needs to be separate from India. > > > That is what IMAGINING a national identity is all about. What is India? > How is it different from Pakistan, or B'desh, or Nepal or SriLanka. > All national identities are born out of a imaginations trhat they are. There > are NO rules that govern it. > > Or are there? > > > >>n many a case I suspect, the aim is >> >> cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them >> best. > > > > Let us accept the premise here. If so, is there a law against that? Or is > it unethical according to some standard of ethical practices? > Who are these conspirators who choose to cherry pick? And WHAT IS their > interest, their motives? > > > > >> Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally >> entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing >> the entire political landscape of these regions. > > > > TWO points to note here: > > A: Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it to > secure the borders? > > B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you premise, who > are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? > What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take issue > with it, other than your personal > preferences or, more precisely, prejudices? > > > finally, I think Sanjiv Goswami is exactly right with his analyses and > conclusions. > > > > > > On Aug 18, 2010, at 7:45 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >> Very well put KJD. >> >> Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. >> >> Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for >> Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is >> Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it >> needs to be separate from India. >> >> Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally >> entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing >> the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these same >> folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone is >> required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are suggestions to >> erase borders and think of the world with no borders. >> >> The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere between >> these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim is >> cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them >> best. >> >> btw: Uttam - thanks for forwarding this. It is an important topic to be >> discussing, and hopefully discussions are taken in that spirit. -- Ram da >> >> Just my 2 cents. >> >> --Ram >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM, kamal deka wrote: >> >>> When did this >>> word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, >>> but >>> it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days >>> of >>> Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of >>> those Mahabharat times <<< >>> >>> If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of >>> centuries of common continuous political rule over the same >>> geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then >>> practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put, >>> shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the >>> centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form. >>> KJD >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur >>> wrote: The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as >>> this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person >>> ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and >>> engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to >>> understand. Please read on:- "Hi All, Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped >>> up here and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I >>> would like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese >>> is
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
Not quite yet.Unless one does not stop giving harangue,the war will continue in full swing.After all,why should we take things lying down:-) Kamal. On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Dilip Deka wrote: > > > Dear Kamal, > So, do we have a level playing field or do we need to level it some more? > I get lost when it comes to levelling the fields. > Dilipda > > > > > > From: kamal deka > To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world > > Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 7:06:45 PM > Subject: Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story > >>>> I haven't heard of any mass > murder, crimes by Assamese towards the tribal people. The writer seems to > harbour a guilty feeling. Can't comment on his or his forefathers' deeds<<< > > There were at least16 or 17 MLAs elected to the Assam Legislative > Assembly FROM THE UNRESERVED CONSTITUENCIES AND ALL OF THEM BELONGED > TO THE SCHEDULED TRIBES ( PLAINS).To name a few,Khana Kanta > Boro,Padmalochan Boro,Purna Boro,Dambarudhar Brahma,Ganash > Boro,Thaneswar Boro,Durga Das Boro,Tejendra Narzary,Kalendra > Basumatary,Mohini Basumatary,Kalendra Basumatary,Derhgra Mushahary et > al. > Therefore,it shows that the members of the Schedules Tribes took > active part in the process of decision making on the floor of the > house. > > The legislature is a forum where the elected members ventilate the > grievances of the people of the constituencies and they have > opportunities to expose the inadequacies/shortcomings of the > administration.The members have an opportunity to shape and finalise > the policies of the Government. > > NOW THE QUESTION IS TO WHAT EXTENT THEY HAD PLAYED THE ROLE TOWARDS > SOLUTION OF THE PROBLEMS WITH HONESTY,SINCERITY AND EFFECTIVELY. > > KJD > > On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Jyotirmoy Sharma > wrote: >> Not buying it.. Khasi,Garos, Nagas, Mizos never called them Assamese to >> begin with. They had their own unique culture, religion and norms. >> >> "If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat >> times ? >> Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now >> classed as ST and are fighting for survival" - I am not suffering from a >> guilty conscience for something I haven't done. On a similar note, the >> current generation of Australians cannot be held accountable for what their >> great grandfathers did to the Aboriginals. I haven't heard of any mass >> murder, crimes by Assamese towards the tribal people. The writer seems to >> harbour a guilty feeling. Can't comment on his or his forefathers' deeds. >> BTW, an ST is by choice, not forced as claimed by the author. You would be a >> fool to want be be classed in the general category while you can enjoy the >> benefits of a ST. Aren't the Bodos of in Karbi Anglong demanding an ST >> status too ... Who forced them? >> The writer should ask a Khasi in Shillong if he wants to be classed in a >> general catergory, being so advanced in education, lifestyle compared to the >> tribals of Jharkhand, Andhra etc. I would like to know if they would ever >> want to come out of the "ST" tag FORCED on them as claimed. >> >> "... a few people from Bangladesh " ... that's something new. Not only >> Assam, but our neighbours are also complaining. Bloody liars they must be. >> A nation is bound by timelines. Once a state, country is formed there are >> rules to abide by as far as migration, settlement is concerned. Uncontrolled >> migration cannot be accepted. >> >> The people of Mahabharat times - if the author is referring to the tribal >> population of Assam( and NE ), they would also be tracing their roots >> somewhere else if the timeline is moved back. >> JS >> ___ >> assam mailing list >> assam@assamnet.org >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> > > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
> The central theme is such cases is > Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it > needs to be separate from India. That is what IMAGINING a national identity is all about. What is India? How is it different from Pakistan, or B'desh, or Nepal or SriLanka. All national identities are born out of a imaginations trhat they are. There are NO rules that govern it. Or are there? >n many a case I suspect, the aim is > > cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them > best. Let us accept the premise here. If so, is there a law against that? Or is it unethical according to some standard of ethical practices? Who are these conspirators who choose to cherry pick? And WHAT IS their interest, their motives? > Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally > entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing > the entire political landscape of these regions. TWO points to note here: A: Where were/are the border security forces? Whose responsibility is it to secure the borders? B: If the population is accepting of such 'intruders', ass you premise, who are you or I to take issue with it as you do here? What is your standing, if we had to employ legal terminology, to take issue with it, other than your personal preferences or, more precisely, prejudices? finally, I think Sanjiv Goswami is exactly right with his analyses and conclusions. On Aug 18, 2010, at 7:45 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > Very well put KJD. > > Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. > > Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for > Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is > Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it > needs to be separate from India. > > Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally > entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing > the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these same > folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone is > required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are suggestions to > erase borders and think of the world with no borders. > > The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere between > these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim is > cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them > best. > > btw: Uttam - thanks for forwarding this. It is an important topic to be > discussing, and hopefully discussions are taken in that spirit. -- Ram da > > Just my 2 cents. > > --Ram > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM, kamal deka wrote: > >> When did this >> word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, >> but >> it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days >> of >> Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of >> those Mahabharat times <<< >> >> If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of >> centuries of common continuous political rule over the same >> geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then >> practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put, >> shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the >> centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form. >> KJD >> >> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur >> wrote: >>> The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as >> this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person >> ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and >> engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to >> understand. Please read on:- >>> "Hi All, >>> >>> Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped >> up here >>> and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I >> would >>> like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese >> is >>> something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants >> ourselves >>> (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of >> us are >>> and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors. >> But we >>> have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because >> someone, not >>> too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did >> this >>> word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is >> confusing, but >>> it is well established that his word and this language is not from the >> days of >>> Mahabharat. >>> >>> If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat >> times ? >>> Well, we relegated them to the back
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
converted to Islam after coming into contact wth Azan Peer, are now no longer referred to Assamese by us, the bloody immigrants, but only as Asomiya Musalman Just a snipet from The Assam Tribune: KJD INDIGENOUS MUSLIMS CONCERNED OVER UNABATED INFLUX Correspondent SIVASAGAR, Nov 23 – That the unabated influx from neighbouring Bangladesh has significantly altered the demographic pattern of Assam and the indigenous Muslim population is fast outnumbered by their Bangladeshi counterparts illegally settling mainly in the districts of lower Assam, has become a serious cause of concern for the conscious indigenous Muslim community of the State. The indigenous Muslim population, particularly of the Upper Assam districts have long been perceiving that a silent cultural invasion from across the border is about to rob them of all cultural and political rights guaranteed under the Constitution besides posing threat to the fabric of great assimilated Assamese nationalism. This is what was precisely discussed about in a meeting organised by Sivasagar unit of Asomiya Muslim Unnayan Parishad at Sivasagar Press Club on Friday which was addressed among others by Nekibur Zaman, senior advocate, Guwahati High Court, Md Tabiul Hussain, retd DC, Morigaon, Imtiaz Hussain Hazarika, president, Sodou Asom Khilonjia Muslim Suraksha Samity, Samsul Haque, Asomiya Muslim Unnayan Samity and a number of speakers from different places. Addressing the meeting, advocate Nekibur Zaman said that the lower Assam districts have been enjoying all the socio-economic and political privileges accorded to the minorities. Citing examples, he said that under a special Central Government grant of about Rs 703 crores for minority development in the State, Barpeta district alone got Rs 85 crores while Dhubri district got about Rs 84 crores which is a clear discrimination against the upper Assam districts. Indigenous Muslims, the descendents of Bokhtiar Khiliji’s soldiers and the descendants of the followers of Mir Jumla who On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur wrote: > The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as > this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person > ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and > engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to > understand. Please read on:- > "Hi All, > > Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped up > here > and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I would > like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese is > something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants ourselves > (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of us > are > and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors. But we > have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because someone, not > too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did this > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, but > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days of > Mahabharat. > > If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat times > ? > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now classed > as ST and are fighting for survival, not from onslaught of bangladeshis, as > .. suggests, but from us !!!. We never ever referred to them as > Assamese, > but would call them as Naga or Khasi or Bodo or Lalung etc. So much so that > even > the people who were here before us, like the original Assamese Hindu people of > upper Assam and Golaghat (referring to Jabeen and her folks) who later > converted to Islam after coming into contact wth Azan Peer, are now no longer > referred to Assamese by us, the bloody immigrants, but only as Asomiya > Musalman. > Did anyone ever refer to any of us as Assamese Hindu ? But we, the bloody > immigrants, always prefix or suffix such terms with others.. Bongali Hindu is > another example. > > No wonder, many of these people have now left us, others are trying to get > away > from us and while still others are in the process. It is therefore no wonder, > that the only community that wants to get close to us as Assamese(others want > to > leave us anyway) i.e. the immigrants from present Bangladesh, are shunned. And > this in spite of the fact that there is no data on when they came as > immigrants, > many had in fact come well before independence (as reported by the Governor > hujur in his report to the President.. see www.satp.org for the full report). > > The question of immigration is an age old one and there are thousands of books > and theories all around. The problem is not of immigrant, Chiranjit, but of > perception towards immigrants. It is also a question related to electoral > politi
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
I have just one comment - we cannot live in the past, we need to live n the present and prepare for the future. From: Ram Sarangapani To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 7:45:26 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story Very well put KJD. Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it needs to be separate from India. Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these same folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone is required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are suggestions to erase borders and think of the world with no borders. The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere between these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim is cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them best. btw: Uttam - thanks for forwarding this. It is an important topic to be discussing, and hopefully discussions are taken in that spirit. -- Ram da Just my 2 cents. --Ram On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM, kamal deka wrote: > >>>>When did this > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, > but > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days > of > Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of > those Mahabharat times <<< > > If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of > centuries of common continuous political rule over the same > geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then > practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put, > shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the > centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form. > KJD > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur > wrote: > > The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as > this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person > ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and > engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to > understand. Please read on:- > > "Hi All, > > > > Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped > up here > > and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I > would > > like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese > is > > something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants > ourselves > > (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of > us are > > and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors. > But we > > have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because > someone, not > > too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did > this > > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is > confusing, but > > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the > days of > > Mahabharat. > > > > If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat > times ? > > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now > classed > > as ST and are fighting for survival, not from onslaught of bangladeshis, > as > > .. suggests, but from us !!!. We never ever referred to them > as Assamese, > > but would call them as Naga or Khasi or Bodo or Lalung etc. So much so > that even > > the people who were here before us, like the original Assamese Hindu > people of > > upper Assam and Golaghat (referring to Jabeen and her folks) who later > > converted to Islam after coming into contact wth Azan Peer, are now no > longer > > referred to Assamese by us, the bloody immigrants, but only as Asomiya > Musalman. > > Did anyone ever refer to any of us as Assamese Hindu ? But we, the bloody > > immigrants, always prefix or suffix such terms with others.. Bongali > Hindu is > > another example. > > > > No wonder, many of these people have now left us, others are trying to > get away > > from us and while still others are in the process. It is therefore
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
Dear Kamal, So, do we have a level playing field or do we need to level it some more? I get lost when it comes to levelling the fields. Dilipda From: kamal deka To: A Mailing list for people interested in Assam from around the world Sent: Wed, August 18, 2010 7:06:45 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story >>> I haven't heard of any mass murder, crimes by Assamese towards the tribal people. The writer seems to harbour a guilty feeling. Can't comment on his or his forefathers' deeds<<< There were at least16 or 17 MLAs elected to the Assam Legislative Assembly FROM THE UNRESERVED CONSTITUENCIES AND ALL OF THEM BELONGED TO THE SCHEDULED TRIBES ( PLAINS).To name a few,Khana Kanta Boro,Padmalochan Boro,Purna Boro,Dambarudhar Brahma,Ganash Boro,Thaneswar Boro,Durga Das Boro,Tejendra Narzary,Kalendra Basumatary,Mohini Basumatary,Kalendra Basumatary,Derhgra Mushahary et al. Therefore,it shows that the members of the Schedules Tribes took active part in the process of decision making on the floor of the house. The legislature is a forum where the elected members ventilate the grievances of the people of the constituencies and they have opportunities to expose the inadequacies/shortcomings of the administration.The members have an opportunity to shape and finalise the policies of the Government. NOW THE QUESTION IS TO WHAT EXTENT THEY HAD PLAYED THE ROLE TOWARDS SOLUTION OF THE PROBLEMS WITH HONESTY,SINCERITY AND EFFECTIVELY. KJD On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote: > Not buying it.. Khasi,Garos, Nagas, Mizos never called them Assamese to > begin with. They had their own unique culture, religion and norms. > > "If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat > times ? > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now > classed as ST and are fighting for survival" - I am not suffering from a > guilty conscience for something I haven't done. On a similar note, the > current generation of Australians cannot be held accountable for what their > great grandfathers did to the Aboriginals. I haven't heard of any mass > murder, crimes by Assamese towards the tribal people. The writer seems to > harbour a guilty feeling. Can't comment on his or his forefathers' deeds. > BTW, an ST is by choice, not forced as claimed by the author. You would be a > fool to want be be classed in the general category while you can enjoy the > benefits of a ST. Aren't the Bodos of in Karbi Anglong demanding an ST > status too ... Who forced them? > The writer should ask a Khasi in Shillong if he wants to be classed in a > general catergory, being so advanced in education, lifestyle compared to the > tribals of Jharkhand, Andhra etc. I would like to know if they would ever > want to come out of the "ST" tag FORCED on them as claimed. > > "... a few people from Bangladesh " ... that's something new. Not only > Assam, but our neighbours are also complaining. Bloody liars they must be. > A nation is bound by timelines. Once a state, country is formed there are > rules to abide by as far as migration, settlement is concerned. Uncontrolled > migration cannot be accepted. > > The people of Mahabharat times - if the author is referring to the tribal > population of Assam( and NE ), they would also be tracing their roots > somewhere else if the timeline is moved back. > JS > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
Very well put KJD. Many of the discussions like this involve a number of dichothomies. Quite often, we find some groups of people demanding a unique identity for Assam (or Kashmir as the case may be). The central theme is such cases is Assam is so different from the rest of India, shares little with it, that it needs to be separate from India. Then the same groups have absolutely no qualms of B'deshis illegally entering Assam, or Pakistanis encroaching into Kashmir - whereby changing the entire political landscape of these regions. Now, suddenly these same folks are willing to embrace the B'deshis with open arms. And everyone is required to show empathy to the illegal immigrants. There are suggestions to erase borders and think of the world with no borders. The political aims of these groups are probably hidden somewhere between these two juxtaposing sets of ideas. In many a case I suspect, the aim is cherry picking at will, and at the opportune times, and what suits them best. btw: Uttam - thanks for forwarding this. It is an important topic to be discussing, and hopefully discussions are taken in that spirit. -- Ram da Just my 2 cents. --Ram On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM, kamal deka wrote: > When did this > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, > but > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days > of > Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of > those Mahabharat times <<< > > If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of > centuries of common continuous political rule over the same > geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then > practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put, > shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the > centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form. > KJD > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur > wrote: > > The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as > this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person > ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and > engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to > understand. Please read on:- > > "Hi All, > > > > Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped > up here > > and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I > would > > like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese > is > > something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants > ourselves > > (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of > us are > > and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors. > But we > > have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because > someone, not > > too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did > this > > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is > confusing, but > > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the > days of > > Mahabharat. > > > > If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat > times ? > > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now > classed > > as ST and are fighting for survival, not from onslaught of bangladeshis, > as > > .. suggests, but from us !!!. We never ever referred to them > as Assamese, > > but would call them as Naga or Khasi or Bodo or Lalung etc. So much so > that even > > the people who were here before us, like the original Assamese Hindu > people of > > upper Assam and Golaghat (referring to Jabeen and her folks) who later > > converted to Islam after coming into contact wth Azan Peer, are now no > longer > > referred to Assamese by us, the bloody immigrants, but only as Asomiya > Musalman. > > Did anyone ever refer to any of us as Assamese Hindu ? But we, the bloody > > immigrants, always prefix or suffix such terms with others.. Bongali > Hindu is > > another example. > > > > No wonder, many of these people have now left us, others are trying to > get away > > from us and while still others are in the process. It is therefore no > wonder, > > that the only community that wants to get close to us as Assamese(others > want to > > leave us anyway) i.e. the immigrants from present Bangladesh, are > shunned. And > > this in spite of the fact that there is no data on when they came as > immigrants, > > many had in fact come well before independence (as reported by the > Governor > > hujur in his report to the President.. see www.satp.org for the full > report). > > > > The question of immigration is an age old one and there are thousands of > books > > and theories all around. The problem is not of immigrant, Chiranjit, but > of > > perception towards immigrants. It is also a question related to electoral > >
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
>>>that the only community that wants to get close to us as Assamese(others >>>want to leave us anyway) i.e. the immigrants from present Bangladesh, are shunned<<< I have no problem with the fact that some foreigners might consider themselves Assamese. But imagining that they are Assamese does not make them so. If that were possible, half the world would claim American citizenship and the right to immigrate to the US!!! THAT'S WHY THE WHOLE BUSINESS OF IMMIGRATION DO TAKE AN ORDERLY PATH EVERYWHERE. KJD On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur wrote: > The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as > this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person > ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and > engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to > understand. Please read on:- > "Hi All, > > Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped up > here > and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I would > like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese is > something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants ourselves > (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of us > are > and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors. But we > have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because someone, not > too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did this > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, but > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days of > Mahabharat. > > If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat times > ? > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now classed > as ST and are fighting for survival, not from onslaught of bangladeshis, as > .. suggests, but from us !!!. We never ever referred to them as > Assamese, > but would call them as Naga or Khasi or Bodo or Lalung etc. So much so that > even > the people who were here before us, like the original Assamese Hindu people of > upper Assam and Golaghat (referring to Jabeen and her folks) who later > converted to Islam after coming into contact wth Azan Peer, are now no longer > referred to Assamese by us, the bloody immigrants, but only as Asomiya > Musalman. > Did anyone ever refer to any of us as Assamese Hindu ? But we, the bloody > immigrants, always prefix or suffix such terms with others.. Bongali Hindu is > another example. > > No wonder, many of these people have now left us, others are trying to get > away > from us and while still others are in the process. It is therefore no wonder, > that the only community that wants to get close to us as Assamese(others want > to > leave us anyway) i.e. the immigrants from present Bangladesh, are shunned. And > this in spite of the fact that there is no data on when they came as > immigrants, > many had in fact come well before independence (as reported by the Governor > hujur in his report to the President.. see www.satp.org for the full report). > > The question of immigration is an age old one and there are thousands of books > and theories all around. The problem is not of immigrant, Chiranjit, but of > perception towards immigrants. It is also a question related to electoral > politics worldwide. You may like to refer to Samuel Huntington's theory of > Clash > of Civilization. Why for example is Assam, the only state in India to be > subdivided so many times ? Why is Assam the only state in India where our own > "boys" are killing our own people ? And why is Assam, in spite of being a > small > state, the only one which still wants more division, not only of the tribal > areas or the much feared greater Bangladesh, but of the such demands as Upor > Axom and Namoni Axom ? > > Most importantly, ., you seems to be confused of what constitutes as > an > Assamese, as you said it is what one feels deep down...that is a subjective > decision. Are you an Assamese, I ask ?Trace your family history and you may > find > startling truths. Just because the British drew a line across Goalpara in > 1947, > cutting the Koch areas in half, does not necessarily make the residents on the > other side as Bengalis, I think. ../.. > and others > from that belt, may even have some close relatives in West Bengal today.. so > were they Assamese till 15th August 1947 and became Bengalis after that !!! > huh > !!! > > The issue is too large and complex. But we, the people of Assam, need to ask > ourselves some basic question, and not go about opening lungis of other people > and getting a pleasure of seeing the > . of a so called > immigrant. After all, we referred to some at one time as "lengta No
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
When did this word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, but it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days of Mahabharat.If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat times <<< If we take the legitimacy of current nation-states on the basis of centuries of common continuous political rule over the same geographical boundary and inhabited by the same people, then practically no country on the planet meets this criteria. Simply put, shifting nature of political kingdoms and their boundaries over the centuries legitimize virtually no country in its present form. KJD On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 10:30 PM, uttam borthakur wrote: > The following is surely not my view, as it comes from a tormentor, but as > this issue appears in this forum as well, I am quoting this person > ad-verbatim, as he has been busy doing some research on this subject and > engaged in Immigration Law related activities in Australia, as I am made to > understand. Please read on:- > "Hi All, > > Reading .. after a long time and lo .. my name seems to have cropped up > here > and there. Good .. it keeps me in circulation lest people forget me. I would > like to clarify for . sake that my question of who is an Assamese is > something which each of us need to ask. We are all bloody immigrants ourselves > (a term used now in the Australian election campaign) or atleast most of us > are > and we came as poor people or as religious preachers or as conquerors. But we > have taken over the land and now call ourselves Assamese, because someone, not > too long ago, decided to call this part of the world as Assam. When did this > word come about and when did the Assamese language originate is confusing, but > it is well established that his word and this language is not from the days of > Mahabharat. > > If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat times > ? > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now classed > as ST and are fighting for survival, not from onslaught of bangladeshis, as > .. suggests, but from us !!!. We never ever referred to them as > Assamese, > but would call them as Naga or Khasi or Bodo or Lalung etc. So much so that > even > the people who were here before us, like the original Assamese Hindu people of > upper Assam and Golaghat (referring to Jabeen and her folks) who later > converted to Islam after coming into contact wth Azan Peer, are now no longer > referred to Assamese by us, the bloody immigrants, but only as Asomiya > Musalman. > Did anyone ever refer to any of us as Assamese Hindu ? But we, the bloody > immigrants, always prefix or suffix such terms with others.. Bongali Hindu is > another example. > > No wonder, many of these people have now left us, others are trying to get > away > from us and while still others are in the process. It is therefore no wonder, > that the only community that wants to get close to us as Assamese(others want > to > leave us anyway) i.e. the immigrants from present Bangladesh, are shunned. And > this in spite of the fact that there is no data on when they came as > immigrants, > many had in fact come well before independence (as reported by the Governor > hujur in his report to the President.. see www.satp.org for the full report). > > The question of immigration is an age old one and there are thousands of books > and theories all around. The problem is not of immigrant, Chiranjit, but of > perception towards immigrants. It is also a question related to electoral > politics worldwide. You may like to refer to Samuel Huntington's theory of > Clash > of Civilization. Why for example is Assam, the only state in India to be > subdivided so many times ? Why is Assam the only state in India where our own > "boys" are killing our own people ? And why is Assam, in spite of being a > small > state, the only one which still wants more division, not only of the tribal > areas or the much feared greater Bangladesh, but of the such demands as Upor > Axom and Namoni Axom ? > > Most importantly, ., you seems to be confused of what constitutes as > an > Assamese, as you said it is what one feels deep down...that is a subjective > decision. Are you an Assamese, I ask ?Trace your family history and you may > find > startling truths. Just because the British drew a line across Goalpara in > 1947, > cutting the Koch areas in half, does not necessarily make the residents on the > other side as Bengalis, I think. ../.. > and others > from that belt, may even have some close relatives in West Bengal today.. so > were they Assamese till 15th August 1947 and became Bengalis after that !!! > huh > !!! > > The issue is too large and complex. But we, the people of Assam, need to ask > ourselves some basic question, and not go about opening lungis of other people > and getting a
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
>>> I haven't heard of any mass murder, crimes by Assamese towards the tribal people. The writer seems to harbour a guilty feeling. Can't comment on his or his forefathers' deeds<<< There were at least16 or 17 MLAs elected to the Assam Legislative Assembly FROM THE UNRESERVED CONSTITUENCIES AND ALL OF THEM BELONGED TO THE SCHEDULED TRIBES ( PLAINS).To name a few,Khana Kanta Boro,Padmalochan Boro,Purna Boro,Dambarudhar Brahma,Ganash Boro,Thaneswar Boro,Durga Das Boro,Tejendra Narzary,Kalendra Basumatary,Mohini Basumatary,Kalendra Basumatary,Derhgra Mushahary et al. Therefore,it shows that the members of the Schedules Tribes took active part in the process of decision making on the floor of the house. The legislature is a forum where the elected members ventilate the grievances of the people of the constituencies and they have opportunities to expose the inadequacies/shortcomings of the administration.The members have an opportunity to shape and finalise the policies of the Government. NOW THE QUESTION IS TO WHAT EXTENT THEY HAD PLAYED THE ROLE TOWARDS SOLUTION OF THE PROBLEMS WITH HONESTY,SINCERITY AND EFFECTIVELY. KJD On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote: > Not buying it.. Khasi,Garos, Nagas, Mizos never called them Assamese to > begin with. They had their own unique culture, religion and norms. > > "If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat > times ? > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now > classed as ST and are fighting for survival" - I am not suffering from a > guilty conscience for something I haven't done. On a similar note, the > current generation of Australians cannot be held accountable for what their > great grandfathers did to the Aboriginals. I haven't heard of any mass > murder, crimes by Assamese towards the tribal people. The writer seems to > harbour a guilty feeling. Can't comment on his or his forefathers' deeds. > BTW, an ST is by choice, not forced as claimed by the author. You would be a > fool to want be be classed in the general category while you can enjoy the > benefits of a ST. Aren't the Bodos of in Karbi Anglong demanding an ST > status too ... Who forced them? > The writer should ask a Khasi in Shillong if he wants to be classed in a > general catergory, being so advanced in education, lifestyle compared to the > tribals of Jharkhand, Andhra etc. I would like to know if they would ever > want to come out of the "ST" tag FORCED on them as claimed. > > "... a few people from Bangladesh " ... that's something new. Not only > Assam, but our neighbours are also complaining. Bloody liars they must be. > A nation is bound by timelines. Once a state, country is formed there are > rules to abide by as far as migration, settlement is concerned. Uncontrolled > migration cannot be accepted. > > The people of Mahabharat times - if the author is referring to the tribal > population of Assam( and NE ), they would also be tracing their roots > somewhere else if the timeline is moved back. > JS > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
Not buying it.. Khasi,Garos, Nagas, Mizos never called them Assamese to begin with. They had their own unique culture, religion and norms. I do agree with you.Identity cannot be IMPOSED.It is not some ARTIFICIAL CONSTRUCT that can be willed.It has to be felt and shared.Its rhythms are found in the music we strum to,in the jokes that we erupt at,in the fashion trends that we emulate,in the food we lap up.It is constructed in the mundane business of life.The encounter that has taken place within the people of this region may have transformed many in some ways,but expanding it to a "single" identity is not one of them. Fact is,the "single" category is an ILLUSIVE construct,drawn up by the British as an artifact of convenience to lump the disparate groups.The "Northeast",by all means, is a geographic concept and nothing more. There is a vacuous assumption of commonality among the people of the Northeastern states of India.What exactly does the average Assamese have in common with a Mizo,Naga or Arunachali?Very little.There is nothing that makes one feel kinship with other apart from the small matter of their sitting adjacent to each other.There are few cultural bonds between the various Northeastern states and the region does not share a common language or religious heritage,which can sometimes form the basis of cross national identity. KJD On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote: > Not buying it.. Khasi,Garos, Nagas, Mizos never called them Assamese to > begin with. They had their own unique culture, religion and norms. > > "If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat > times ? > Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now > classed as ST and are fighting for survival" - I am not suffering from a > guilty conscience for something I haven't done. On a similar note, the > current generation of Australians cannot be held accountable for what their > great grandfathers did to the Aboriginals. I haven't heard of any mass > murder, crimes by Assamese towards the tribal people. The writer seems to > harbour a guilty feeling. Can't comment on his or his forefathers' deeds. > BTW, an ST is by choice, not forced as claimed by the author. You would be a > fool to want be be classed in the general category while you can enjoy the > benefits of a ST. Aren't the Bodos of in Karbi Anglong demanding an ST > status too ... Who forced them? > The writer should ask a Khasi in Shillong if he wants to be classed in a > general catergory, being so advanced in education, lifestyle compared to the > tribals of Jharkhand, Andhra etc. I would like to know if they would ever > want to come out of the "ST" tag FORCED on them as claimed. > > "... a few people from Bangladesh " ... that's something new. Not only > Assam, but our neighbours are also complaining. Bloody liars they must be. > A nation is bound by timelines. Once a state, country is formed there are > rules to abide by as far as migration, settlement is concerned. Uncontrolled > migration cannot be accepted. > > The people of Mahabharat times - if the author is referring to the tribal > population of Assam( and NE ), they would also be tracing their roots > somewhere else if the timeline is moved back. > JS > ___ > assam mailing list > assam@assamnet.org > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Bangladeshis -the flip side of the story
Not buying it.. Khasi,Garos, Nagas, Mizos never called them Assamese to begin with. They had their own unique culture, religion and norms. "If that is so, what happened to the original people of those Mahabharat times ? Well, we relegated them to the backgroud, so much so that they are now classed as ST and are fighting for survival" - I am not suffering from a guilty conscience for something I haven't done. On a similar note, the current generation of Australians cannot be held accountable for what their great grandfathers did to the Aboriginals. I haven't heard of any mass murder, crimes by Assamese towards the tribal people. The writer seems to harbour a guilty feeling. Can't comment on his or his forefathers' deeds. BTW, an ST is by choice, not forced as claimed by the author. You would be a fool to want be be classed in the general category while you can enjoy the benefits of a ST. Aren't the Bodos of in Karbi Anglong demanding an ST status too ... Who forced them? The writer should ask a Khasi in Shillong if he wants to be classed in a general catergory, being so advanced in education, lifestyle compared to the tribals of Jharkhand, Andhra etc. I would like to know if they would ever want to come out of the "ST" tag FORCED on them as claimed. "... a few people from Bangladesh " ... that's something new. Not only Assam, but our neighbours are also complaining. Bloody liars they must be. A nation is bound by timelines. Once a state, country is formed there are rules to abide by as far as migration, settlement is concerned. Uncontrolled migration cannot be accepted. The people of Mahabharat times - if the author is referring to the tribal population of Assam( and NE ), they would also be tracing their roots somewhere else if the timeline is moved back. JS ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
