[Asterisk-Users] Echo SIP-T100P-PRI
I'm experience echo on outgoing calls: Snom 200 Asterisk T100P PRI called party I am getting echo on the Snom 200 phone. The called party does not hear the echo. Since the PRI is digital, I don't really understand where the echo is coming from. I turned on echotraining, echocancellation=yes (128), and echowhenbridged in zapata.conf, to no avail. Could it be the wiring? Any suggestions of where to go from here? tia, Mike --- Michael Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] President (646)285-6841 Zia Communications http://www.ziacom.us ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo SIP-T100P-PRI
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Mike Schwartz wrote: I'm experience echo on outgoing calls: Snom 200 Asterisk T100P PRI called party I am getting echo on the Snom 200 phone. The called party does not hear the echo. Since the PRI is digital, I don't really understand where the echo is coming from. Rule of thumb (i.e. a good starting point): if you hear the echo it is coming from somewhere else, your equipment mearly makes it noticable. In this case the echo is probably caused by an analog conversion at the remote party. This is quite common but for calls with a very short latency in the call path this is experienced as a reverb and not an echo. The voip leg probably introduces quite a few ms worth of latency and thus making the echo of your voice audiable. Since your digital end does not introduce any echo at all the remote party does not hear any echo even though the latency is the same in that direction. When a pstn circuit is so long that the delay is enought for the echo to be noticed an echo canceler is typically introduced from a pool automatically. Common points for these to be enabled are for international circuits etc. I turned on echotraining, echocancellation=yes (128), and echowhenbridged in zapata.conf, to no avail. There have been a few reports that too little cpu power makes the echo canceler misbehave. You may want to reduce the number of taps from 128 as there have been reports that this helps. Peter ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
What do you mean does not support? I mean, it connected to the system fine and can place and receive calls. As far a legal issues, that would figure. There's such a tight lock around their phones and internet system it's crazy. Everything there is overpriced and they try to control/put limits on everything. VOIP would definately destroy their hold. I didn't intend on using this system for business use, just personal use as 9/10 of my large family resides in Australia. Ohh well, I guess I better disconnect the thing. Especially if I can't fix the echo issue. - Original Message - From: Adam Goryachev [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 8:20 PM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 02:03, Deon Rodden wrote: I installed a server in Australia with a Wildcard X100P in it. From my server in the U.S, I pushed a call via IAX to the server in Australia which then pushed it out that card. Severe echo, only I could hear it though. The remote side heard nothing. Definately been reading up on this echoing issue. Then I guessed you missed a couple of facts (technical ones legal) A) Australia uses a different impedance on analogue lines, which the X10xP doesn't support. However, if you use the TDM01B card, it will support this, and there are recent cvs changes to support module loadtime options to set these. B) Legally speaking (AFAIK) you are not permitted to connect non-approved equipment to a telephone line, of which the X10xP is not approved and probably never will be. Regards, Adam ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 23:16, Deon Rodden wrote: What do you mean does not support? I mean, it connected to the system fine and can place and receive calls. No, I meant it will work, but won't be work optimally. (ie, probably you will have bad echo). As far a legal issues, that would figure. There's such a tight lock around their phones and internet system it's crazy. Everything there is overpriced and they try to control/put limits on everything. VOIP would definately destroy their hold. I didn't intend on using this system for business use, just personal use as 9/10 of my large family resides in Australia. Ohh well, I guess I better disconnect the thing. Especially if I can't fix the echo issue. *shrug* I know of a number of people who use the X100P in Aus... In fact, I have never even heard of someone being charged for this type of offence. I am not telling you it is alright (IANAL)... If you want to use this system, then you should replace the X100P with a TDM01B or similar, the TDM FXO modules properly support the local impedance etc, and as such should drastically improve the echo problems you are having. At least, this is the stories I am hearing... Regards, Adam ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
Is there an application I could use to test this? I.E. like the echo test, but doesn't send anything back... app_record.so ? ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
Is there an application I could use to test this? I.E. like the echo test, but doesn't send anything back... app_record.so ? If you want to test towards the telco's central office, find out what their quiet terminiation number is. Just about every central office has a piece of equipment attached to a local telephone number (line) that does nothing more then properly terminate the call into it, and is typically used by the telco's installers for measuring noise on new installs. You'll probably play hell trying to find someone that can tell you what that number is (varys by central office), but the telephone installers know what it is. (They also use a milliwatt generator which is on a different telephone number.) Call the quiet termination and test for echo. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
On 21 Jul 2004 at 8:49, Holger Schurig wrote: Is there an application I could use to test this? I.E. like the echo test, but doesn't send anything back... app_record.so ? Good idea. Done. Asterisk does definitely not reflect any sound back to me on an FXS port, so surely our echo problems are all provider or far end based, no? Matt ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
On Mon, 2004-07-19 at 19:52, TC wrote: Might as well come join the * SIG [EMAIL PROTECTED] bare your sole there ... This fragmentation helps us how? -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
On Mon, 2004-07-19 at 19:12, David Goldfein wrote: Hi, I recently set up the following in a production system (2.8 GHZ Xeon, 1 Gig Memory, Dell 2650). Telco - PRI - Asterisk - T1 - PBX I am getting an occasional noticeable echo on some of the phone lines (random inbound and outbound). Everyone I ask keeps telling me that I can't be having echo since I am on a PRI, which is a digital circuit. Ok, so I can't be having echo, but I am! Does anyone have any ideas of what might be causing the echo in this situation? Your PRI and the T1 itself cannot introduce echo on their own. What you may see though is that you are introducing a delay as you traverse the asterisk link. Asterisk will buffer 8 bits per channel from the PRI before it send it down the T1 line to the PBX. This is a new delay that is now added on to the latency your PBX introduces. A guess is that you also get the 2 machines fighting against each other on the echo. I doubt you can turn off echo cancel in the PBX so you should try turning it off in asterisk. It should help reduce some latency in asterisk and let the PBX handle the rest of the echo cancel on it's own. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
On the subject of echo on a PRI, I too get this, but only when calling people in certain rate centers. Calls within my LATA (primarily VZ) are completely free of echo. Calls to a neighboring LATA (all Sprint) have echo on almost every rate center. I wish I knew more about this so I could rip Sprint a new one and tell them to fix their trunking, but... -- Troy Settle Pulaski Networks http://www.psknet.com 866.477.5638 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Critchfield Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 7:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI On Mon, 2004-07-19 at 19:12, David Goldfein wrote: Hi, I recently set up the following in a production system (2.8 GHZ Xeon, 1 Gig Memory, Dell 2650). Telco - PRI - Asterisk - T1 - PBX I am getting an occasional noticeable echo on some of the phone lines (random inbound and outbound). Everyone I ask keeps telling me that I can't be having echo since I am on a PRI, which is a digital circuit. Ok, so I can't be having echo, but I am! Does anyone have any ideas of what might be causing the echo in this situation? Your PRI and the T1 itself cannot introduce echo on their own. What you may see though is that you are introducing a delay as you traverse the asterisk link. Asterisk will buffer 8 bits per channel from the PRI before it send it down the T1 line to the PBX. This is a new delay that is now added on to the latency your PBX introduces. A guess is that you also get the 2 machines fighting against each other on the echo. I doubt you can turn off echo cancel in the PBX so you should try turning it off in asterisk. It should help reduce some latency in asterisk and let the PBX handle the rest of the echo cancel on it's own. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
I recently set up the following in a production system (2.8 GHZ Xeon, 1 Gig Memory, Dell 2650). Telco - PRI - Asterisk - T1 - PBX I am getting an occasional noticeable echo on some of the phone lines (random inbound and outbound). Everyone I ask keeps telling me that I can't be having echo since I am on a PRI, which is a digital circuit. Ok, so I can't be having echo, but I am! Does anyone have any ideas of what might be causing the echo in this situation? Welcome to the club. ;) You have the same exact problem I've got. The only difference is I'm using dual Xeon 2.4s and a Supermicro SuperWorkstation 7033A-T (X5DAL-TG2 motherboard http://supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/E7505/X5DAL-TG2.cfm ). Echo training=800 on a recent CVS helped, but did not totally resolve the issue. Best regards, Ryan Thrash ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
On Tuesday 20 July 2004 06:39, Steven Critchfield wrote: Might as well come join the * SIG [EMAIL PROTECTED] bare your sole there ... This fragmentation helps us how? You know, I was wondering the same thing -- I got subscribed to it and I do have to say that the technical discussion there is better than anything I've seen here, although the conclusions are the same... :-) -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
On Tuesday 20 July 2004 09:04, Troy Settle wrote: On the subject of echo on a PRI, I too get this, but only when calling people in certain rate centers. Calls within my LATA (primarily VZ) are completely free of echo. Calls to a neighboring LATA (all Sprint) have echo on almost every rate center. I wish I knew more about this so I could rip Sprint a new one and tell them to fix their trunking, but... Are you sure it's Sprint's fault? I mean perhaps calling within your own LATA has less delay than calling neighbour LATAs and, combined with the delay that the T100P/TE405P introduces, presents enough delay to perceive echo... IME It's not a telco problem. I also have echo when calling certain numbers, both within and outside of my own LATA (at least I think it is) ... My conclusion is that *s echo cancellation is very hardware-specific, but with echotraining=800 it's good enough for what we use it for. The only problem with echotraining=yes is the 8/10s delay before audio is heard -- sometimes the start of conversations is cut off since our receptionist doesn't have to life a receiver from the cradle to her ear. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
I recently set up the following in a production system (2.8 GHZ Xeon, 1 Gig Memory, Dell 2650). Telco - PRI - Asterisk - T1 - PBX I am getting an occasional noticeable echo on some of the phone lines (random inbound and outbound). Everyone I ask keeps telling me that I can't be having echo since I am on a PRI, which is a digital circuit. Ok, so I can't be having echo, but I am! Does anyone have any ideas of what might be causing the echo in this situation? Oops. I need to correct my last post: I don't have the PBX in the mix. My config is dual Xeon 2.4s, 1GB RAM, HW SATA RAID, SuperMicro X5DAL-TG2 motherboard connected to: Telco - PRI (T100P) - Asterisk - SIP Phones (Budgetones 102s/Snom 200) The premise is still the same though: echo present despite our digital PRI that *should* make this impossible. It's usually only echo on our side when calling out as has been discussed here previously ad nauseum with no one being able to really figure out its source. I wish I knew where to really start poking around to try to help get to the bottom of this. Best regards, Ryan Thrash ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
On Tuesday 20 July 2004 09:22, Ryan Thrash wrote: Oops. I need to correct my last post: I don't have the PBX in the mix. My config is dual Xeon 2.4s, 1GB RAM, HW SATA RAID, SuperMicro X5DAL-TG2 motherboard connected to: Telco - PRI (T100P) - Asterisk - SIP Phones (Budgetones 102s/Snom 200) The premise is still the same though: echo present despite our digital PRI that *should* make this impossible. It's usually only echo on our side when calling out as has been discussed here previously ad nauseum with no one being able to really figure out its source. I wish I knew where to really start poking around to try to help get to the bottom of this. No, the PRI does NOT make echo impossible. It makes it highly unlikely that YOU will generate echo. You never hear echo YOU generate; you hear the echo being generated on the other side. Has anyone you've called complained of echo? My * servers are SuperMicro 7043P-8R; single Xeon 2.8 HT processor in a dual-capable X5DP8-G2. More than enough balls to get the job done, but perhaps some PCI issues? Norstart Meridian MICS (12 PSTN trunk lines) - Adit600 FXS - T100P - IAX2 - TE405P - Bell Canada PRI The IAX2 link is only one hop (* server connected to each side over a PairGain Megabit Modem 300S on a dedicated ethernet port). Long distance calls are through Nufone and my internet link to Nufone is 8 hops. I have never heard compliant of echo when calling long distance, only through our local PRI. Regards, Andrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
On the subject of echo on a PRI, I too get this, but only when calling people in certain rate centers. Calls within my LATA (primarily VZ) are completely free of echo. Calls to a neighboring LATA (all Sprint) have echo on almost every rate center. I wish I knew more about this so I could rip Sprint a new one and tell them to fix their trunking, but... Troy, Given the reseach that is currently going on, etc, I would not bet any more then a cup of coffee that Sprint (or any other carrier) has an echo problem right now. There _appears_ to be an issue with the echo cancellation routines in asterisk that is impacting more then a couple of implementations. The research to date suggests the current echo canceler works well in some cases, and not so well in other cases. In other words, there are a certain set of undocumented/unknown conditions (and/or PC systems) that fall within the thresholds of the current canceler that work, and other conditions (and PC systems) that fall outside the limits of the canceler that are less then acceptable. The limits and thresholds are _not_ black white and may end up being one of the more difficult problems to solve within asterisk. (E.g, it's entirely possible that your calls via Sprint fall outside the limits of *'s canceler.) As you've probably seen earlier on this list, there is a high probability that internal system issues (eg, interrupt servicing latency, possibly PCI bus issues, etc) that are impacting this in _some_ specific cases. In some cases, swapping the motherboard did in fact impact the cancellation quality. However, be very carefull not to read anything more into that at this time. There is no one at this time that knows factually what those limits, thresholds, etc, happen to be (not even Mark). Rich ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: ~ The only problem with echotraining=yes is the 8/10s delay before audio is | heard -- sometimes the start of conversations is cut off since our | receptionist doesn't have to life a receiver from the cradle to her ear. I normally wait about a second after I pick up the phone until I hear a very small click. I think that might be the end of the training period. ~ Then I proceed with my introduction. It seems to work quite well. - -- Jason A. Pattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Xperience, Inc. (http://www.xperienceinc.com) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Debian - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFA/TR0uYsUrHkpYtARAndWAJ9bWApl75x0YLKKYYN29pQ3SkpzRgCggVAi ko1u/UIYgX7UFwjbneheZ9A= =OBXB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks transtec Computers for their support. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Kohlsmith Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 9:14 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI On Tuesday 20 July 2004 09:04, Troy Settle wrote: On the subject of echo on a PRI, I too get this, but only when calling people in certain rate centers. Calls within my LATA (primarily VZ) are completely free of echo. Calls to a neighboring LATA (all Sprint) have echo on almost every rate center. I wish I knew more about this so I could rip Sprint a new one and tell them to fix their trunking, but... Are you sure it's Sprint's fault? I mean perhaps calling within your own LATA has less delay than calling neighbour LATAs and, combined with the delay that the T100P/TE405P introduces, presents enough delay to perceive echo... Pretty sure. Severe echo problems are only apparent when calling destinations within certain rate centers in this particular Sprint LATA (956) from my LATA (244). What's weird, is that inbound calls /from/ these same rate centers seem to have much less echo problem. It's possible that there's a something wrong with the trunking between my telco (KMC Telecom), the tandem (Verizon), and my LD carrier (MCI), then going to the destination (Sprint). The reverse call path is Sprint = Sprint = KMC = me. Fortunately, most of our calls are inbound, so it's not a huge issue at this time. -- Troy Settle Pulaski Networks http://www.psknet.com 540.994.4254 ~ 866.477.5638 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
I installed a server in Australia with a Wildcard X100P in it. From my server in the U.S, I pushed a call via IAX to the server in Australia which then pushed it out that card. Severe echo, only I could hear it though. The remote side heard nothing. Definately been reading up on this echoing issue. I thought the main reason was latency, and my ping to that server in Australia reveals 200ms response times. However, they have a HT286 Converter there in Australia on the same connection, and it connects to my Asterisk server here in the US via SIP and it places calls all day long with no problems. I'm going to try more testing, like connecting a HT286 here in the U.S straight to their Asterisk server there and trying to make local calls. Will then try Asterisk to Asterisk communication via SIP instead of IAX. - Original Message - From: Rich Adamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 10:17 AM Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI On the subject of echo on a PRI, I too get this, but only when calling people in certain rate centers. Calls within my LATA (primarily VZ) are completely free of echo. Calls to a neighboring LATA (all Sprint) have echo on almost every rate center. I wish I knew more about this so I could rip Sprint a new one and tell them to fix their trunking, but... Troy, Given the reseach that is currently going on, etc, I would not bet any more then a cup of coffee that Sprint (or any other carrier) has an echo problem right now. There _appears_ to be an issue with the echo cancellation routines in asterisk that is impacting more then a couple of implementations. The research to date suggests the current echo canceler works well in some cases, and not so well in other cases. In other words, there are a certain set of undocumented/unknown conditions (and/or PC systems) that fall within the thresholds of the current canceler that work, and other conditions (and PC systems) that fall outside the limits of the canceler that are less then acceptable. The limits and thresholds are _not_ black white and may end up being one of the more difficult problems to solve within asterisk. (E.g, it's entirely possible that your calls via Sprint fall outside the limits of *'s canceler.) As you've probably seen earlier on this list, there is a high probability that internal system issues (eg, interrupt servicing latency, possibly PCI bus issues, etc) that are impacting this in _some_ specific cases. In some cases, swapping the motherboard did in fact impact the cancellation quality. However, be very carefull not to read anything more into that at this time. There is no one at this time that knows factually what those limits, thresholds, etc, happen to be (not even Mark). Rich ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
On Tuesday 20 July 2004 09:22, Ryan Thrash wrote: Oops. I need to correct my last post: I don't have the PBX in the mix. My config is dual Xeon 2.4s, 1GB RAM, HW SATA RAID, SuperMicro X5DAL-TG2 motherboard connected to: Telco - PRI (T100P) - Asterisk - SIP Phones (Budgetones 102s/Snom 200) The premise is still the same though: echo present despite our digital PRI that *should* make this impossible. It's usually only echo on our side when calling out as has been discussed here previously ad nauseum with no one being able to really figure out its source. I wish I knew where to really start poking around to try to help get to the bottom of this. No, the PRI does NOT make echo impossible. It makes it highly unlikely that YOU will generate echo. You never hear echo YOU generate; you hear the echo being generated on the other side. Unless I've totally misunderstood the double negatives in that statement, I don't believe your statement is accurate at all. The echo problem that most of us have (or had) does result from audio initiated by sip phones (etc) passing out through any number of zap oriented cards/adapters to the pstn (regardless of who the pstn provider happens to be). The technical issue seems to be oriented around... a. rtp packet arrives at asterisk via the LAN (as an example only), b. asterisk queues the rtp packet/bytes for transmission via a zap channel, c. the system sends pkts/bytes to zap card, and for _lots_ of different reasons, some of the audio (pkts/bytes) are reflected back towards the inbound side of the card (to asterisk code) via the PCI and interrupt structure, d. the current echo canceler removes that reflection **if** the pkts/bytes arrive (in * code) within a certain amount of time, e. if the reflection falls outside the current canceler's limits, or if some other audio interference is involved, or if an interrupt or two is missed, the reflected audio is not removed by the current canceler (as it falls outside it's limits) and we hear echo. The echotraining=800 enhancement represents one step towards reducing critical timing part of pulsing the zap channel and pre-loading the canceler with something reasonable. That, in effect, removed the 5-to-20 second training period for the canceler. It had nothing to do with addressing the limits or thresholds of the canceler itself. Regardless of whether one uses a zap driven PRI, T1, or analog line, there is reflected energy (eg, audio) that needs to be removed by the echo canceler. The amount of reflected energy varys by type of facility (eg, PRI vs analog line), by call destination, the efficiency of any hybrid involved (if any), etc, but its still there in all cases, period. What remains for the current echo issues seem to boil down to two somewhat unrelated issues (there might be more): a. internal system delays possibly resulting from interrupt service latency, internal PCI structure, etc. (Those systems with this issue seem to have some degree of echo on all calls. Swapping motherboards is known to impact this one to some degree.) b. echo on certain zap calls where it appears the reflected energy falls outside the limits of the current canceler. (Those are likely to relate to significant time delays in the reflected energy and _might_ be related to the type of facilities used within the carrier's network. Likely in the Sprint case noted.) Whether one has echo with NuFone calls or not is totally irrelevant as those calls are not sent through zap channels, and are not subjected to the same echo canceler issues noted above. Trying to identify _factually_ what the various limits happen to be with interrupt latency (etc), reflected energy from both local and outside sources is not an trevial task. Changing the echo canceler to support whatever those limits happen to be is likely to be far more difficult. As Steve Underwood noted earlier, one of the only ways to identify the issues in (a) is to write a test application that sends data out through the zap card, loop that data back into the receive side, and measure the delays (and variation in delay) assoicated with that path. There could be multiple issues uncovered, and some are likely to be system dependent. We'd all like to hope that changes to address (a) would be sufficient to also address the issues in (b). We'll have to wait and see. Rich ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
You can have echo even w/ PRI's, it's just that the echo isn't INTRODUCED at the PRI demarcation point, it is INTRODUCED somewhere along the call path, usually where the 4 wire digital signal to 2 wire analogue signal conversion point exist. We found that moving to a Compaq DL380 or 6400R and compiling in a few extra options (see one of my previous post) totally abolished our echo problem. W. Kevin Hunt CCIE #11841 MCSE, Linux+ SME www.huntbrothers.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Thrash Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 8:13 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI I recently set up the following in a production system (2.8 GHZ Xeon, 1 Gig Memory, Dell 2650). Telco - PRI - Asterisk - T1 - PBX I am getting an occasional noticeable echo on some of the phone lines (random inbound and outbound). Everyone I ask keeps telling me that I can't be having echo since I am on a PRI, which is a digital circuit. Ok, so I can't be having echo, but I am! Does anyone have any ideas of what might be causing the echo in this situation? Welcome to the club. ;) You have the same exact problem I've got. The only difference is I'm using dual Xeon 2.4s and a Supermicro SuperWorkstation 7033A-T (X5DAL-TG2 motherboard http://supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/E7505/X5DAL-TG2.cfm ). Echo training=800 on a recent CVS helped, but did not totally resolve the issue. Best regards, Ryan Thrash ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
On Tuesday 20 July 2004 11:04, Jason A. Pattie wrote: I normally wait about a second after I pick up the phone until I hear a very small click. I think that might be the end of the training period. ~ Then I proceed with my introduction. It seems to work quite well. I agree and do that myself; it's just a matter of training the staff :-) -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
Thanks Everyone! I appreciate all the feed back. Right now I am using a Digium T400P card and my system, although it is fast, has a slight load, about 15% due to some mysql activity. I know that Digium as a new card the TE410P. Does anyone have any experience in the new card and is the speed difference likely to help with the echo? Also, if I put in a second processor, is that likely to help with the echo? Thanks Again, Dave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Goldfein Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 5:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI Hi, I recently set up the following in a production system (2.8 GHZ Xeon, 1 Gig Memory, Dell 2650). Telco - PRI - Asterisk - T1 - PBX I am getting an occasional noticeable echo on some of the phone lines (random inbound and outbound). Everyone I ask keeps telling me that I can't be having echo since I am on a PRI, which is a digital circuit. Ok, so I can't be having echo, but I am! Does anyone have any ideas of what might be causing the echo in this situation? Thanks, Dave ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
It does seem to be on its own irq. Detected Tormenta 2 Quad T1/PRI or E1/PRA at 0xfcf00800/0xfcf0 irq 20 Nothing else seems to be on irq 20. I don't know enough about the following line to know if it has any impact: PCI-APIC IRQ transform: (B1,I8,P0) - 20 Thanks, Dave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wiley E. Siler Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 5:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI I think I saw a reference to a similar problem and it regarded IRQ issues on the machine in question. IF there was IRQ sharing, cagey things happened. But if the T1 card had a static IRQ, it resolved the issue. Does your T1 card have a dedicated IRQ? I am sure someone will be able to explain further and possibly give you some validation on your Mobo too? Thanks, Wiley -Original Message- From: David Goldfein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 5:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI Hi, I recently set up the following in a production system (2.8 GHZ Xeon, 1 Gig Memory, Dell 2650). Telco - PRI - Asterisk - T1 - PBX I am getting an occasional noticeable echo on some of the phone lines (random inbound and outbound). Everyone I ask keeps telling me that I can't be having echo since I am on a PRI, which is a digital circuit. Ok, so I can't be having echo, but I am! Does anyone have any ideas of what might be causing the echo in this situation? Thanks, Dave ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
On Tue, 2004-07-20 at 13:01, David Goldfein wrote: Thanks Everyone! I appreciate all the feed back. Right now I am using a Digium T400P card and my system, although it is fast, has a slight load, about 15% due to some mysql activity. I know that Digium as a new card the TE410P. Does anyone have any experience in the new card and is the speed difference likely to help with the echo? Also, if I put in a second processor, is that likely to help with the echo? Our only PSTN touching asterisk machine uses a T400P card on a 1200Mhz PIII on a supermicro machine. The majority of our calls are PRI to a T1 into ADIT600 and into an old Dialogic based system. No echo there. Next most calls are redirected from the PRI back to the PRI for connection to some analog phones. Again, no echo. A few calls are passed from PRI to a IAX connection that travels 12 or so hops and land on a cheaply built machine with a T100P card and a Zhone channel bank. Lots of delay, but no echo. All this to say, I would worry about your 15% load on mysql. Treat you machine right by removing the mysql load and see if it fixes your problem. Since you have put mysql with that load on the same machine as your PBX, I would about bet you have IDE drives too. It may well be that your mysql load itself is not much, but the IDE load on top of mysql causes even more delay than is tolerable. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 02:03, Deon Rodden wrote: I installed a server in Australia with a Wildcard X100P in it. From my server in the U.S, I pushed a call via IAX to the server in Australia which then pushed it out that card. Severe echo, only I could hear it though. The remote side heard nothing. Definately been reading up on this echoing issue. Then I guessed you missed a couple of facts (technical ones legal) A) Australia uses a different impedance on analogue lines, which the X10xP doesn't support. However, if you use the TDM01B card, it will support this, and there are recent cvs changes to support module loadtime options to set these. B) Legally speaking (AFAIK) you are not permitted to connect non-approved equipment to a telephone line, of which the X10xP is not approved and probably never will be. Regards, Adam ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
On 21 Jul 2004 at 10:20, Adam Goryachev wrote: On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 02:03, Deon Rodden wrote: I installed a server in Australia with a Wildcard X100P in it. From my server in the U.S, I pushed a call via IAX to the server in Australia which then pushed it out that card. Severe echo, only I could hear it though. The remote side heard nothing. Definitely been reading up on this echoing issue. Is it possible to send audio from a sip phone to asterisk say VM without asterisk sending anything back? If so, it may pay to try that and cough on the phone. If asterisk is not sending anything back, you should get nothing back on the phone. Is there an application I could use to test this? I.E. like the echo test, but doesn't send anything back... Matt ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
Hi, I recently set up the following in a production system (2.8 GHZ Xeon, 1 Gig Memory, Dell 2650). Telco - PRI - Asterisk - T1 - PBX I am getting an occasional noticeable echo on some of the phone lines (random inbound and outbound). Everyone I ask keeps telling me that I can't be having echo since I am on a PRI, which is a digital circuit. Ok, so I can't be having echo, but I am! Does anyone have any ideas of what might be causing the echo in this situation? Thanks, Dave ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
I think I saw a reference to a similar problem and it regarded IRQ issues on the machine in question. IF there was IRQ sharing, cagey things happened. But if the T1 card had a static IRQ, it resolved the issue. Does your T1 card have a dedicated IRQ? I am sure someone will be able to explain further and possibly give you some validation on your Mobo too? Thanks, Wiley -Original Message- From: David Goldfein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 5:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI Hi, I recently set up the following in a production system (2.8 GHZ Xeon, 1 Gig Memory, Dell 2650). Telco - PRI - Asterisk - T1 - PBX I am getting an occasional noticeable echo on some of the phone lines (random inbound and outbound). Everyone I ask keeps telling me that I can't be having echo since I am on a PRI, which is a digital circuit. Ok, so I can't be having echo, but I am! Does anyone have any ideas of what might be causing the echo in this situation? Thanks, Dave ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
Might as well come join the * SIG [EMAIL PROTECTED] bare your sole there ... ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
I am getting an occasional noticeable echo on some of the phone lines (random inbound and outbound). Everyone I ask keeps telling me that I can't be having echo since I am on a PRI, which is a digital circuit. Ok, so I can't be having echo, but I am! Does anyone have any ideas of what might be causing the echo in this situation? There are many far more knowledgeable than I about echo but in the interim I will contribute from my limited understanding. While echo will not be generated at the interface between your Asterisk server and the PRI trunk, echo still can be generated elsewhere in the network (i.e. at the other end of the call where your digital call is converted into analog to interface with the two copper wires running to the POTS phone). Normally end-to-end latency for local calls is so short that the echo appears (if it appears at all) as reverb rather than echo. The problem is that if you are running VoIP calls through your Asterisk box you can introduce enough latency so that the echo already present in the system becomes noticeable. Hence the need to enable echo cancelling. Read the wiki and play with the parameters and #defines in the echo can code. Good luck! George Pajari netVOICE communications ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Echo on a PRI
On Mon, 19 Jul 2004, David Goldfein wrote: Hi, I recently set up the following in a production system (2.8 GHZ Xeon, 1 Gig Memory, Dell 2650). Telco - PRI - Asterisk - T1 - PBX I am getting an occasional noticeable echo on some of the phone lines (random inbound and outbound). Everyone I ask keeps telling me that I can't be having echo since I am on a PRI, which is a digital circuit. Ok, so I can't be having echo, but I am! Does anyone have any ideas of what might be causing the echo in this situation? If you've got any analogue anywhere in the call patch then echo is a possibility. Specifically 2-wire analogue. So if one or both of your callers are on analogue phones. Its not usually an issue with your sort of setup though because the Zaptel driver has echo cancellation (have you enabled it?) and the overall call delay is small. Steve ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
