Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which budget constrained DAC for SB3?
westernboy;240238 Wrote: Hi cgull (clever name, btw). In response to your original post, I can recommend the Beresford TC-7510 external DAC, providing it has the 'Class A' output mod. At around 140 UK pound sterling, it was better than the modded Channel Islands VDA-1 I tried previously and (from memory) about as revealing as a Benchmark 1. I can't comment on the Inguz plugin as I don't have a server with enough horsepower to run it, but I can say that room treatments (at least the DIY absorption panels I've installed so far) make a HUGE improvement to the sound quality. yes the beresford is a good dac on a budget but when I had one compared to the modded behringer src2496 it came of second best by quite a wide margin thats before you add in all the extras that the src gives you. -- zanash Acoustician and builder of interesting cables zanash's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12157 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
Vic;240393 Wrote: More seriously (sort of). Apparently I seem to understand that a good majority of members of this forum state (with apparently humour, but please next time put an H next to the funny bits so that I know when to laugh) that all hi-fi related stuff is a rip off and that everything sounds the same. Am I correct? That apparently includes one of the designer of the SB and Transporter, have I got it right? More seriously, I don't think I would put it that way. The SB3 and Transporter measure well. Their measured performance is excellent at their respective price points. In fact the Transporter measures incredibly well full stop. Having said that, I recall Sean confirming the obvious which is that he did extensive listening tests (including blind) during design. So the philosophy is that good measurements are necessary despite the fact they are not enough alone. Most of the people here would agree that's the correct approach. A lot of people here are skeptical about claims of superior sound which have no measurements to back them up and are based on sighted listening impressions only (as discussed). Put another way, if it measures the same and you can't tell the difference blind...then you need to consider the possibility it is the same. Of course it's unlikely that loudspeakers will measure the same and they do tend to sound a bit different (there are distinct approaches and assumptions for room interaction, dispersion etc). Amps and sources tend to sound quite similar (the aim is transparency so necessarily the better the amps or sources the more similar they will sound). Check out the Stereomojo blind shootouts. Darren -- darrenyeats SB3 / Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1 Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing 24-bit, 96 kHz FLAC?
Shouldn't the files be converted to 48 kHz on-the-fly, though? -- ezkcdude There are 10 kind of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who don't. SHINYMETAL '*Site*' (http://www.ezdiyaudio.com)| '*RSS*' (http://www2.kumc.edu/students/ezamir/rss/ezdiyaudio.xml) |'*Forum*' (http://ezdiyaudio.informe.com) ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28490 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing 24-bit, 96 kHz FLAC?
SoftwireEngineer;240522 Wrote: hi folks, I tried some 24bit/96khz recordings and am getting only noise from my sb. It is set to covert everything to wav. what could be the issue here ? The SB3 is designed to play up to 48kHz. Darren -- darrenyeats SB3 / Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1 Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28490 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Remote Control of Transporter
DCtoDaylight;240502 Wrote: The volume control in the Transporter is digital, and exactly the same as it's done in the SB3. Cortes, I use the SB3's digital volume control and it works well. For a discussion of why - with red book - no resolution or dynamic range is lost digitally see: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39320 As for physical noise, I own an SB3 and a Krell integrated used in pre-bypass mode i.e. SB3 goes straight through to power amp stage. If I put my ears near the speakers the hiss from the power amp alone seems no different to when the SB3 is plugged in. So - in my rig - the physical noise floor of the SB3 is the least of my worries (regardless of attenuation). And the Transporter has a much lower physical noise floor than the SB3. Darren -- darrenyeats SB3 / Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1 Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39968 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
darrenyeats;240583 Wrote: More seriously, I don't think I would put it that way. The SB3 and Transporter measure well. Their measured performance is excellent at their respective price points. In fact the Transporter measures incredibly well full stop. Having said that, I recall Sean confirming the obvious which is that he did extensive listening tests (including blind) during design. So the philosophy is that good measurements are necessary despite the fact they are not enough alone. Most of the people here would agree that's the correct approach. A lot of people here are skeptical about claims of superior sound which have no measurements to back them up and are based on sighted listening impressions only (as discussed). Put another way, if it measures the same and you can't tell the difference blind...then you need to consider the possibility it is the same. Of course it's unlikely that loudspeakers will measure the same and they do tend to sound a bit different (there are distinct approaches and assumptions for room interaction, dispersion etc). Amps and sources tend to sound quite similar (the aim is transparency so necessarily the better the amps or sources the more similar they will sound). Check out the Stereomojo blind shootouts. Darren First post somehow related to the thread topic, but around here that does not seem to be a major concern. So apparently the choice between the SB, SB+ and Transporter is a toss of a coin. Actually, assuming that I don't need a remote control and that my PC is in the same room, I could just get a £15 sound card and a coaxial cable and run it to the DAC of my Opus 21 and get the same sound quality, correct? There seems to be a contradiction though: if all sources sound the same, why there is on the market a product (transporter) costing 10 times more than the SB with only a couple of added functionalities? -- Vic Vic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13795 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
Vic;240594 Wrote: First post somehow related to the thread topic, but around here that does not seem to be a major concern. So apparently the choice between the SB, SB+ and Transporter is a toss of a coin. Actually, assuming that I don't need a remote control and that my PC is in the same room, I could just get a £15 sound card and a coaxial cable and run it to the DAC of my Opus 21 and get the same sound quality, correct? There seems to be a contradiction though: if all sources sound the same, why there is on the market a product (transporter) costing 10 times more than the SB with only a couple of added functionalities? Nobody but you made the assertion that all sources sound the same. Your claiming that anyone has constitutes a strawman argument. See the following link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man Happy trolling. -- totoro Perl is the Ron Jeremy of programming languages. totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
I'm not sure anyone's ever suggested that all sources sound the same. What I will suggest, however, is that: All -digital- sources, provided they don't deliberately process the samples from the disc before delivering them to the SPDIF port, should sound the same when fed into a jitter-proof reclocking DAC. So, if you have such a DAC, there should be no audible benefit in using a Transporter over an SB3, or even over the cheapest working CD player you can find on Ebay - provided you're using it as a digital source only. Even then there's still the possibility that you'll get a ground loop or some other effect that can't really be attributed to the 'quality' of the component, which may nevertheless affect what you hear. -- AndyC_772 AndyC_772's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing 24-bit, 96 kHz FLAC?
Out of curiosity I downloaded the 24/96 stereo PCM test file from itrax.com, and it works fine for me both through the analogue and digital outs of my SB3. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28490 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Remote Control of Transporter
Hello, being the opener of the thread cited above I can say that the digital volume regulation is no problem as long as you have: - 16bit redbook material - the tp above -42db or such (below that I noticed some distortion but might be due to my amp running at 0db for the test and getting some overdrive. If you had 24bit material you would indeed loose information at the lower end of the dynamic range but even when you turn volume down by 42 db you'll end up with 17bit in theoy. If we assume that we loose another two bits for the dac not working exactly linear we have 15bits which is good for most of all cds since the are mastered at -8db and thereby loosing a bit by themselves ending up with 15bits. Bottom line: The digital volume regulation is OK exept for very extreme and rarely encountered situations. -- jaysung jaysung's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12375 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39968 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing 24-bit, 96 kHz FLAC?
opaqueice;240596 Wrote: Out of curiosity I downloaded the 24/96 stereo PCM test file from itrax.com, and it works fine for me both through the analogue and digital outs of my SB3. When I tried 96/24 on my SB3 a few months ago, streaming as WAV created noise, streaming as FLAC worked. What are you streaming as? Regards, Kim -- krochat -- SB3 (+linear) - Big Ben - TacT RCS 2.2X - 2xS2150 - Vandersteen 3a Signature + TacT W210 krochat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6579 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28490 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
AndyC_772;240598 Wrote: What I will suggest, however, is that: All -digital- sources, provided they don't deliberately process the samples from the disc before delivering them to the SPDIF port, should sound the same when fed into a jitter-proof reclocking DAC. Hum.. lets just say in an ideal world maybe ! unfortunately I live in the real world and find that there are significant differences if I keep my dac amp and speakers the same and just change the various digital sources ie denon cdp marantz cd67 arcam a5 quad 99cdp dab tuner sb3 dvdhd they all sound different. If I use the same cd in each of the cdp's which I can hook three up at a time if so desired to the dac and switch between its clear that there are significant sonic differences between these devices. I have no explaination for this other than the more expensive of the items sounds better than the cheaper ones. This may imply that there have been design short cuts ? -- zanash Acoustician and builder of interesting cables zanash's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12157 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
zanash;240614 Wrote: I have no explaination for this other than the more expensive of the items sounds better than the cheaper ones. This may imply that there have been design short cuts ? Do the expensive items sound more alike than the cheaper items? Darren -- darrenyeats SB3 / Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1 Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing 24-bit, 96 kHz FLAC?
krochat;240619 Wrote: When I tried 96/24 on my SB3 a few months ago, streaming as WAV created noise, streaming as FLAC worked. What are you streaming as? Regards, Kim Interesting. I'm pretty sure it's as FLAC, but it'll have to wait until tonight to check. By the way, am I correct in assuming that the SB is simply dropping every other sample and producing a 24/48 digital output? -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28490 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HD Music Downloads from iTrax
I am a proponent of higher sample rates...the problem is that most recordings don't have any content above the 20 kHz ceiling. Ours do and we leave it alone during the post production. Check out the wind chimes on Laurence Juber's Guitar Noir album on the track Mosaic. It's the one that I use to convince people that stuff at 35 kHz has an effect on the final product. On iTrax.com you can download successively better and better quality encodes of the same track...it's pretty illustrative. Anybody in Long Beach this week for the EHX, be sure to stop by the Microsoft/AIX Demo Alley room -- Dr. AIX Dr. AIX's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11351 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34870 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing 24-bit, 96 kHz FLAC?
opaqueice;240620 Wrote: By the way, am I correct in assuming that the SB is simply dropping every other sample and producing a 24/48 digital output? That's the current theory, according to message #10 earlier in this thread. That would allow the transporter to get full resolution while still allowing an SB3 running from the same server to work. One odd thing is that when I was evaluating the Transporter against my SB3, I would stream 96/24 FLAC, synchronize both devices to the same stream, and switch back and forth to evaluate them. The SB3 would slowly drift out of synchronization with the Transporter - I don't know if this was because of imprecision in the SB3's internal clock or some other mechanism, but this only seemed to happen with 96kHz material. Another concern about 96kHz playback on the SB3 is that while the program material is converted to 48kHz, it hasn't been filtered at 24kHz to prevent anti-aliasing. I did some comparisons between 96kHz files played straight to the SB3 vs the same file converted to 48kHz in Adobe Audition using proper low-pass filtering. The converted file was a teensy bit less bright in the treble, but I actually preferred listening to the unconverted file. Regards, Kim -- krochat -- Acourate - Inguz DSP - SB3 - GW Labs DSP (96kHz upsampler) - Apogee Big Ben - TacT RCS 2.2X - 2x TacT S2150 - Vandersteen 3a Signature + TacT W210 krochat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6579 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28490 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
Zanash: what DAC are you using? -- AndyC_772 AndyC_772's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] WTB: Used Transporter
Looking to buy used Transporter, silver or black in good condition. -- Kiep Kiep's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8844 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39992 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
AndyC_772;240598 Wrote: What I will suggest, however, is that: All -digital- sources, provided they don't deliberately process the samples from the disc before delivering them to the SPDIF port, should sound the same when fed into a jitter-proof reclocking DAC. This assumes that asynchronous reclocking is equivalent to synchronous. Some would argue that the most effective solution is to have one clock driving both transport and DAC -- Jitterbug Jitterbug's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4955 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
darrenyeats;240617 Wrote: Do the expensive items sound more alike than the cheaper items? Darren Not IME. I have found that a lot of mid priced Dacs sound very similar: Lavry DA10 (I own one), Benchmark, Apogee and they also sound very close to some SS CDP of the same price range. Going up the food chain to the real world class CDPs like Opus 21, Wadia, Ayre, some Naim, Densen, Capitol, Meridian, Esoteric they all have a very strong personality and differ a lot from each other to the point than some people may love A and hate B while a lot of other think B is the best CDP ever. As an example - Meridians have a silky tonality and warmish bass, very pleasant but they loose some detail - Some Naim have great dynamics, but very little soundstage - Esoteric have loads of resolution, many people love that, but to me there is too much and sounds too hi-fiish - Opus 21 is my favourite with great soundstage, layers in music and great timing; the most musical, whatever that means - Some Wadias are wonderful players, but only the top of the range with the TEAC tansport, but they are extremely expensive - I wish I could spend some time with some Aereo Capitol - Nave tried the Densen, but some people really love them So the theoretic assumption that better sources sounds the same is totally wrong in my opinion. There are hundred of ways of skinning a cat and of implementing a digital player, also people listen to different sorts of music, have different ears and taste Finally I have never heard a standalone DAC that can even remotely compete with the group of the best CDPs; jitter is a big problem and apparently the best solutions are the proprietary ones (as Patrick was implying earlier on) -- Vic Vic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13795 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
BTW guys thanks a lot for this most helpful thread. I came here with a dilemma about buying a SB3 or a SB+ and now I have crystal clear ideas about what I am going to buy: a souncard. One of the main reasons I intended to go for SB was the existence of a dedicated forum for support and exchange of information. The idea of venturing in this forum again an meeting zombies like totoro and another couple of sinister caracters that materialise in this thread is to me less appealing than a visit to the dentist, an evening with my mother in law, or listening to an entire CD by Celine Dion (OK, in the last two cases I am obviuosly exagerating). Can anyone recommend me a good soundcard with optical and coaxial output? -- Vic Vic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13795 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] My TP system sounds so lifeless :(
From experience I know that this could be symptom a of digital attenuation. Anything attenuated more than 3dB will be lifeless and without dynamics. Why would you use Transporter to feed another dac? If you don't like it as a dac get a Sqeezebox otherwise you are wasting your money. -- Kiep Kiep's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8844 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39764 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
Vic;240673 Wrote: The idea of venturing in this forum again... Not for the thin skinned that's for sure. Vic;240673 Wrote: ...good soundcard Oxymoronic. Go for the SB+. . -- haunyack Transporter - BK R200.2 - Vandersteen 3A Signature. (Listening room) SB3 (RWA analog) - Rotel RB1070 - BW Matrix 805. (Bedroom) Fridgidare - Mirror Pond pale ale - easy chair w/remote - irritated neighbors. haunyack's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9721 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
Vic;240673 Wrote: Can anyone recommend me a good soundcard with optical and coaxial output? Soundcards introduce a bunch of new problems but a good start is an external USB one with it own driver. The MAudio Audiophile 2496 USB is a reasonably priced one and is well rated. Often people prefer optical over coax from soundcards to isolate from PC noise. -- Jitterbug Jitterbug's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4955 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
Jitterbug;240684 Wrote: Soundcards introduce a bunch of new problems but a good start is an external USB one with it own driver. The MAudio Audiophile 2496 USB is a reasonably priced one and is well rated. Often people prefer optical over coax from soundcards to isolate from PC noise. Thanks mate, that looks very good. The thing is I don't have a USB device, but I rather have a Monarchy DIP which accepts Optical and coaxial input. Would the Audiophile 2496 internal card be as good. What sort of problems you are referring to? Have you had better results with SB compared to soundcards? -- Vic Vic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13795 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
Vic;240687 Wrote: The thing is I don't have a USB device, but I rather have a Monarchy DIP which accepts Optical and coaxial input. Would the Audiophile 2496 internal card be as good. Not sure I understand. You're talking about hooking a card up to a PC right? Use USB on the PC side, use the soundcards coax or optical then to the Monarchy DIP. Generally people prefer USB cards for this purpose because they are out of the PC and away from it's noise power supply Vic;240687 Wrote: What sort of problems you are referring to? Bad clock, bad power supply, EMF and other noise, Windows drivers, ... Vic;240687 Wrote: Have you had better results with SB compared to soundcards? Yes, however I have seen reports on this forum from those who couldn't distinguish the difference. -- Jitterbug Jitterbug's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4955 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
Vic;240673 Wrote: Can anyone recommend me a good soundcard with optical and coaxial output? This is even more the wrong forum to ask about that than to ask about the SB+. You can find plenty of PC audio fora on the web where you can get advice, assuming that's actually what you want. Good bye, and don't let the door hit you on the way out. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
Jitterbug;240690 Wrote: Not sure I understand. You're talking about hooking a card up to a PC right? Use USB on the PC side, use the soundcards coax or optical then to the Monarchy DIP. Generally people prefer USB cards for this purpose because they are out of the PC and away from it's noise power supply Bad clock, bad power supply, EMF and other noise, Windows drivers, ... Yes, however I have seen reports on this forum from those who couldn't distinguish the difference. I see your point, sorry I misunderstood the first time. I thought you meant a soundcard with USB out in order to go to a USB DAC. Wow, it looks like I am heading for troubles. I thought something like foobar and the rabbit thingy would give good results -- Vic Vic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13795 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
haunyack;240681 Wrote: Go for the SB+.. That was my original idea when I register to this forum. But I would rather go without music instead of facing again a few morons that seem to jump in every single thread in this forum haunyack;240681 Wrote: Oxymoronic Which in English is? -- Vic Vic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13795 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing 24-bit, 96 kHz FLAC?
krochat;240619 Wrote: When I tried 96/24 on my SB3 a few months ago, streaming as WAV created noise, streaming as FLAC worked. What are you streaming as? Regards, Kim Looks like exactly the problem I was facing. I had FLAC file streaming format as WAV. When I switched to FLAC, I was able to listen to my 24bit/96khz recordings. Funny thing is, I have the impression, streaming as WAV sounds better. Little bit sharper and better ambience. Oh well. I have a nokia 770 I can switch to FLAC streaming when playing high-res files. (BTW, your setup is exactly my goal. I have a poor mans version of it right now, with SB3 digital into a Panny digital amplifier receiver. Tell us more about your all digital path system/sound, as a good digression). -- SoftwireEngineer SoftwireEngineer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7000 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28490 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which budget constrained DAC for SB3?
russelk;240026 Wrote: I disagree with the statement that the speaekers will contribute about 95% of the system character. During my last upgrade I kept my speakers (Quad 12L) but replaced the source and amplification (Linn Creek) - the change in sound was staggering. Speaking for myself at least, the speakers did not contribute anywhere near 95% of the sonic character of my system. I have stated in a previous post that I don't think much of the SB3's analog output - I don't know if it's the DAC that's the limiting factor, or the supporting components. The bottom line is that it's bettered quite easily by a mid-range cd player. Of course one must take into account that the SB3 does cost a great deal less than a mid-range cd player, so it's unfair to expect that kind of performance. cgull, I would definitely recommend that you try an external DAC. I know exactly what you mean when you say the SB3 sounds dull and flat. Unfortunately I am not familiar with the DACs that you have listed. I'm using a cheap moodlabs Concept DAC at the moment, and I'm not really satisfied with the performance gains. Yes it does sound better than the SB3's analog out, but not by a great margin. I'm going to be auditioning a Benchmark DAC1 in a few months - it is quite expensive but I'm hoping the gains will be worthwhile. If your 12Ls are anything like my 11Ls, they are very revealing of anything upstream of them. So like you, I was able to immediately discern the improvement an upgraded DAC made to my Squeezebox. On that point: cgull, if you're looking at the Zhalous, take a gander at the Musiland DACs like the MD10. I bought mine from Pacfic Valve and Electric. I'm using the aforementioned Behringer SRC 2496 to upsample the stream to the MD-10 and running it at 88zHz / 24 bit. All told, the whole combo' set me back about $430 and I've been a very happy camper. Just got back from visting my brother who has a purebred Linn Ikemi and I much prefer my humble German / Chinese mutt. To russellk's point, the Benchmark has been consistently described as bright in the many reviews and shootouts I have read. A less pejorative term would be analytical. Not my cup o' tea, but if that's what you're after, there are usually several for sale at any given time on Audiogon (used) for $700 -$800. -- Videodrome Two-channel System: SB3 - Behringer SRC2496 - Musiland MD-10 DAC; Outlaw 970 Pre/Pro; McCormack DNA-125 amplifier; Quad 11L speakers; Sota Sapphire ttbl. w/ Grado Ref. Platinum Cartridge - Rolls Bellari VP-129 tube phono stage; Marantz 10b; Nakamichi RX505; Cables Used: DH Labs, Van den Hul, Distech, Monster, many more. Videodrome's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11727 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
Vic;240687 Wrote: Have you had better results with SB compared to soundcards? Hiya Yes... I was using the M-audio USB Audiophile, USB from the laptop to the card, coax out, it uses a separate psu (not usb powered). Using the coax out form the SB just sounded better, it was a good while ago I swaped over, so unfortunatly can't remember exactly what was better. My kit my ears ;-) -- Deaf Cat Deaf Cat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=515 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
opaqueice;240697 Wrote: This is even more the wrong forum to ask about that than to ask about the SB+. AFAIK this is Slim Devices/Logitech's forum, and they have never had a problem with people discussing third party products and additions, let alone one for which they sell -at least- one SB3 for everyone sold! I'm quite sure they are perfectly capable of policing their own forums without your dedicated assistance. -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
totoro;240490 Wrote: Let's see: you managed to combine the continuation of a straw man argument, a retard joke, and a reference to Nazis all in one post, all while being protected by the cover of a lame attempy at irony. Nice trolling. I'm not sure I saw any irony in it, but maybe that's an across-the-pond definition issue - the only irony I see is me being called a troll when I have been one of very few who are helpful to the original poster in this thread. Clearly not the done thing on this forum! Adam -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) SB+, EAR V20, Heybrook Sextets plus some other stuff SB3, Shek d2, Ming-Da MC84-C, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing 24-bit, 96 kHz FLAC?
SoftwireEngineer;240722 Wrote: (BTW, your setup is exactly my goal. Tell us more about your all digital path system/sound, as a good digression). Digression would be right! Rather than starting a new thread, I'll go into a little detail on the theory and implementation here and then point you to all the other forums, etc. where you can study up. Important concepts (in order of importance). 1) Frequency, time, and phase correction for both the room and loudspeakers. 2) Putting frequency corrected bass drivers in the corners and crossing over at relatively high frequencies (325Hz in my case). 3) Using digital crossovers and filters. Implementation: 1) Acourate is the only program I know of that will generate phase-corrected filters for convolution engines. No choice here. 2) You also need a convolution engine that implements phase correction to make effective use of the filters. Inguz DSP is by far the easiest, but only corrects 2 channels. BruteFIR (Linux) supports a much wider array of configurations. There are other convolution engines available, such as the Foobar plugin and the TacT RCS (which doesn't correct for phase). 3) In my system I have some room correction in the bass amp (TacT S2150 using TACS-generated filters). The Digital Crossover is implemented in the bass and main amps. The TacT RCS is in bypass mode and used as a preamp for volume control. Overall frequency and phase correction is done by InguzDSP. Ideally, every driver is driven by its own amp using digital correction and crossover. That was overkill for me, so I just picked a good quality phase-linear main speaker. Comments: a) The GW Labs upsampler is to circumvent a deficiency in the asyncronous sample rate converter in the TacT RCS when it converts from 44.1 to 96kHz. I could achieve the same thing by offline upsampling in software to 96kHz and buying a transporter. b) The Big Ben makes the quality of the source irrelevant. I couldn't tell the difference between a stand-alone Transporter and the SB3 running through the Big Ben. For more reading: Acourate: http://www.acourate.com http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/acourate/ Inguz DSP: http://www.inguzaudio.com/RoomCorrection/ TacT stuff, in general: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/TacTAudioUsersGroup/ Room correction theory and much more: http://www.regonaudio.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/regsaudioforum/ A bunch of guys much more obsessive than myself about similar systems: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/The-Crooked-Path Watch out, it's a slippery slope... Kim -- krochat -- Acourate - Inguz DSP - SB3 - GW Labs DSP (96kHz upsampler) - Apogee Big Ben - TacT RCS 2.2X - 2x TacT S2150 - Vandersteen 3a Signature + TacT W210 krochat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6579 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28490 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
adamslim;240738 Wrote: I'm not sure I saw any irony in it, but maybe that's an across-the-pond definition issue - the only irony I see is me being called a troll when I have been one of very few who are helpful to the original poster in this thread. Clearly not the done thing on this forum! Adam If you don't understand that a post that combines an ad hominem with a strawman, adds in a gratuitous Nazi reference and a retard joke, adding no reasoned commentary, or, in fact, any content at all, is a trolling post, you're either too dim even to argue with, or completely disingenuous. -- totoro Perl is the Ron Jeremy of programming languages. totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] New to Transporter
What is the best way to 'stream' internet radio? I have a 'music room' and would like to stream internet radio to other rooms. Logitech is mum on using the 'DJ' remote and suggest using the 'squeeze box'. I'm new to all this and wonder what's up. Logitech bought 'slim devices' and I gather there are a 'few' unresolved issues. -- Gene Zalar Gene Zalar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13899 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=40010 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB+ info please
Patrick Dixon;240733 Wrote: AFAIK this is Slim Devices/Logitech's forum, and they have never had a problem with people discussing third party products and additions, let alone one for which they sell -at least- one SB3 for everyone sold! As I'm sure you're fully aware, your product is in more or less direct competition with the Transporter, and involves a modification to the SB which voids the warranty. Discussing it on these forums could raise a number of red flags. If I were you I'd be grateful it's allowed to continue. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing 24-bit, 96 kHz FLAC?
krochat;240619 Wrote: When I tried 96/24 on my SB3 a few months ago, streaming as WAV created noise, streaming as FLAC worked. What are you streaming as? Regards, Kim I just tried streaming the 24/96 WAV file as WAV, and it worked fine through my DAC. I'm too lazy to check the analogue outs. I'm using a recent beta version of squeezecenter 7.0, which might be relevant. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28490 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing 24-bit, 96 kHz FLAC?
opaqueice;240809 Wrote: DRC doesn't do that? Just showing my ignorance. From browsing the DRC web page, it appears that it does. However, neither I nor anyone on the forums I referenced uses DRC (that I know of) - I'm not sure why. I liked this quote on the DRC web page: Thanks to Ulrich Uli Brueggemann for providing some filters generated with a completely different approach. Most of the changes of version 2.5.0 have been implemented after comparing the DRC filters with those filters. Uli is the author of Acourate, so I'll keep using his product. Regards, Kim -- krochat -- Acourate - Inguz DSP - SB3 - GW Labs DSP (96kHz upsampler) - Apogee Big Ben - TacT RCS 2.2X - 2x TacT S2150 - Vandersteen 3a Signature + TacT W210 krochat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6579 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28490 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
