Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How many reasons...

2008-04-25 Thread ModelCitizen

iPhone;295309 Wrote: 
 Or am I wrong that 4500 pounds translates to about $9000 USD?
It does at the moment.

I certainly won't be buying it, but I'll be very interested to see if
Naim can manage to get their usual stunning sound out of a networked
player. I wasn't convinced by the SuperNait integrated dacs/Amp/pre-amp
device.

Is there some sort of audiophile competition between Linn and Naim
then?

MC


-- 
ModelCitizen

Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.

It's the music, stupid.
http://www.last.fm/user/ModelCitizen

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Songs you use for critical listening

2008-04-25 Thread CardinalFang

ModelCitizen;295221 Wrote: 
 Does anyone wonder why virtually no one really gives a s*** about
 obtaining music illegally now? It's just one in a long list of things
 that modern people pretend publically that they don't do.

I'm used to paying for recorded music, so continue to do so, but I do
like the convenience of buying just the tracks I want and not the
filler crap on most CDs. That of course means the labels get less money
from me.

I think that eventually the music business model will change and
downloaded music will become a free marketing tool and the big money
will come from touring and merchandising. We're already starting to see
that with Prince and others, and with the new deals that U2 and Madonna
are cutting.


-- 
CardinalFang

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Volume settings.

2008-04-25 Thread cliveb

wireless200;295322 Wrote: 
 Ok I see how to adjust the attenuaters in the manual.  I'll try it that
 way.  thanks.
The Transporter output attenuators only operate on the unbalanced
outputs. The MC402 has the option of balanced inputs, and from my
experience (and a number of others around here), you really owe it to
yourself to use balanced. That means if you need attenuation, it'll
have to be external. Start without any attenuation and turn the TP
volume right down, then gradually increase it until you get as loud as
you'll ever want. That tells you how much attenuation (if any) you
need.

That said, I see the MC402 input sensitivity is 4V on the balanced
inputs, which is actually fairly low. Many balanced power amps have a
sensitivity around 2V, some even as high as 1V. So you may well find
that you're OK without any attenuation at all.


-- 
cliveb

Transporter - ATC SCM100A

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How many reasons...

2008-04-25 Thread cliveb

ModelCitizen;295355 Wrote: 
 Is there some sort of audiophile competition between Linn and Naim then?
Do you not remember the great falling out?

Back in the 1980's, Linn and Naim were bestest buddies. Anyone who was
anyone had a system comprising LP12 turntable, Naim amps, and Linn
speakers.

Then Linn made the fatal mistake of building their own amplifier. Naim
went ballistic and responded with the Armageddon power supply for the
LP12, quickly followed by the ARO pickup arm and then started making
speakers.

That's ancient history, and I'd guess that Naim and Linn are probably
now on speaking terms (like an old divorced couple). But they are
strictly competitors rather than partners. The old customer base which
once embraced both brands seems to have split into two factions. Funny
how HiFi mirrors religion is so many ways.


-- 
cliveb

Transporter - ATC SCM100A

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How many reasons...

2008-04-25 Thread adamslim

ModelCitizen;295227 Wrote: 
 The point about NAIM is that their gear just sounds superb. The rest is
 details  ;-/

That's why it would be really cool if they came up with a product that
isn't so fundamentally flawed!  Might sound great *but*...

Slim Devices came up with products that are far less flawed (at least
for people who aren't scared of computers).  While the sound quality
may (untested, not flamebait) not be as good as the Linn/Naim players,
it's easier to mod to improve the sound quality than it is to sort out
the fundamental flaws of design and usage.


-- 
adamslim

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have
others

SB+, EAR V20, Living Voice OBX-R2s plus some other stuff
SB3, Charlize, Harbeth HL-P3ES

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Songs you use for critical listening

2008-04-25 Thread darrenyeats

I think the music industry is reaping what it sowed for decades. They
incorporated royalties into the price of their products but many people
have paid the same royalties over and over when they bought the same
music in new formats.

This is robbery.

Now the shoe is on the other foot so they bring out the lawyers. Those
labels and artists showing foresight and working with the public (not
against them) will reap the positive rewards in time.
Darren


-- 
darrenyeats

SB3 / Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1
Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Volume settings.

2008-04-25 Thread wireless200

cliveb;295398 Wrote: 
 The Transporter output attenuators only operate on the unbalanced
 outputs. The MC402 has the option of balanced inputs, and from my
 experience (and a number of others around here), you really owe it to
 yourself to use balanced. That means if you need attenuation, it'll
 have to be external. Start without any attenuation and turn the TP
 volume right down, then gradually increase it until you get as loud as
 you'll ever want. That tells you how much attenuation (if any) you
 need.
 
 That said, I see the MC402 input sensitivity is 4V on the balanced
 inputs, which is actually fairly low. Many balanced power amps have a
 sensitivity around 2V, some even as high as 1V. So you may well find
 that you're OK without any attenuation at all.

I'll give that a try on the Mc. I tried balanced out of the TP to the
Krell I just sold and couldn't hear much of a diff.  Maybe just the
littlest bit.  It was easy to A-B with both hooked up and I adjusted
the volume to match them.  I have also read where several people said
they liked RCA better when they A-B'ed.  Still, gotta love that *click*
though when connecting the balanced connections.  I plan to buy a pair
of Golden Cross cables as I've heard they are very smooth.  

RCA and XLR are equal in price for those cables.  I kind of like not
having an external attenuator but no big deal really.  As long as it's
not one of the stepping or external boxes that I've seen.  A small,
fixed bullet-sized one would be ok.  Thanks for the advice.


-- 
wireless200

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How many reasons...

2008-04-25 Thread agentsmith

ModelCitizen;295227 Wrote: 
 The point about NAIM is that their gear just sounds superb. The rest is
 details  ;-/
 
I agree with that being a Naimee.  To me it is a Naim quality CD player
plus a Transporte minus digital in.  I am sure sound wise it would at
least give the Transporter a good run for the money.  Too bad it is
sooo much money.  Surely the power supply and case isolation would be a
lot more than the Transporter?


-- 
agentsmith

System 1: SB2 and a mostly Naim system
System 2: SB2 connected digitally to a Meridian F80

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player

2008-04-25 Thread haraldo

Phil Leigh;294012 Wrote: 
 I hope to be hearing the DS later this month - so I will refrain from
 commenting on it until then, except to say that I doubt it will blow
 away the SB into a good dac, never mind a transporter.
 In 30 years I've only heard two blow away moments...(I guess I must
 get out more)
 1) Linn Aktiv Bariks vs passive - that was jaw dropping at the time
 (1988)
 2) Linn Troika vs Linn Basik (wow - a £500 cartridge blows away an £80
 one!)
 
 Since then it's all been rather small improvements to be honest.
 Picking up David's point, I tend to use a handfull of tracks to assess
 initial quality. This is followed by long listening to a wide variety
 of material, including some difficult digital renderings.
 
 For example, I often use:
 
 School from Crime of the Century by Supertramp. The cymbals when they
 arrive 
 are a big help to me.
 One Night In Paris by 10CC - a wealth of detail to be retrieved
 Sledgehammer (Peter Gabriel, So remastered) - can be like nails on
 glass on some systems, especially when LOUD)
 Mezzanine (any track) by Massive Attack...good for bass
 control/response...this disc can set rooms into a resonant frenzy!
 In Between Dreams by Jack Johnson - astonishingly natural sounding
 vocals and guitar - if it doesn't sound like he is in the room then
 something is wrong.
 Bells of Berlin by Lone Star from Firing on All Six - this is a really
 dynamic rock track that will sound dreadful if the system lacks dynamic
 capabilities. It also has challenging synth tones and a really good drum
 track.

Thank god that you're replying here :-))


-- 
haraldo

Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop / SC7 - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell
KAV400xi - Meadowlark Kestrel2 / Duntech PCL-15
Everything is difficult before it's easy

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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] TP as pre, split rca or not?

2008-04-25 Thread bhaagensen

Hi,

as some may recall

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=46329highlight=audiolab

I am experimenting with TP direct to amp. Since the to-be-removed pre
is actually a pre/integrated I'm thinking about biamping (passively as
per recent thread). I also already have the required speaker cables, so
it would cost nothing.

The only 'but' is that as far as I can see I would need to split the
RCA output from the TP (my amps do not have XLR). Are there any
drawbacks to this ? Would I be better of going with just one amp ? I
know I could just try, but I do not have an RCA splitter so any
opinions I can gather, before going further, are greatly appreciated.
For all I know it could be the worst of ideas, I really don't know.

Thanks,

Edit: I looked at some forum threads about rca-splitting, but they seem
to be more about just the splitting. Obviously the focus here is on
the audio quality aspect... 

Bjørn


-- 
bhaagensen

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How many reasons...

2008-04-25 Thread iPhone

agentsmith;295438 Wrote: 
 I agree with that being a Naimee.  To me it is a Naim quality CD player
 plus a Transporte minus digital in.  I am sure sound wise it would at
 least give the Transporter a good run for the money.  Too bad it is
 sooo much money.  Surely the power supply and case isolation would be a
 lot more than the Transporter?

Personally and in my humble opinion, I really think that the Mac and
now Naim NMP come down to the fact that they both know they have to get
their hat in the ring, toe in the door, or whatever analogy you want to
use. Mac went the dress up somebody else’s proven product as a Mac
route. Naim looked at what was out there and decided they had to build
a product they could put their name on. With Mac setting the bar at
$6000, it made it easier for Naim to go over the top.

Sure I can see somebody building the audiophile of audiophile Network
Media Player. The one with the separate power supply, all digital in
another box, and all analog in yet another box while putting a price
tag on it that makes it the NMP to have (read second mortgage
expensive).

But I do not see Naim or Mac trying to do this. They want some skin in
the game and are going after the non-computer user that will not
believe ripped CDs can sound good unless a name like Mac or Naim is
associated with it. It is for the guy/gal that can use a CDP which
makes them able to “feed” a NMP that does it all for them. What really
surprised me about the Mac and the Naim was that they did not force you
to buy a DAC. When I heard they were going to make a NMP, I was sure it
was going to be a head unit with digital out only. But on reflection, I
guess that goes against the all in one box theory to get the non
computer using audiophile to buy a Network Media Player!

I think Wes Philips said it best in his review of the Mac MS750,
There are still logical reasons why a consumer might buy a McIntosh
MS750, especially if cost is no constraint. In that case, go ahead and
get the Mac and the digital processor of your choice. But a little bit
of computer savvy, a $300 Slim Devices Squeezebox, and that same
processor will get you to the same sonic place for significantly
less.

Did you notice what I noticed? Wes says buy the Mac (if money isn't an
issue) and oh by the way also get the DAC of your choice. I just paid
$6000 and I still need to pay another $3000 for the DAC of my choice!?
I am with Wes on this one. Buy either the Transporter or put a Duet
with the Bel Canto's e.One DAC3 for NMP Audio Nirvana. The thousands
one saves can go to buy more CDs and bigger hard drives.


-- 
iPhone

iPhone

Last.FM http://www.lastfm.com/user/mePhone

Media Room:
Transporter, Vandersteen Quatro Signature, Ayre MX-R Mono Blocks, VTL
TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, VCC-5 Reference Center Channel, four VSM-1
Signatures, Runco 710, RAM Oppo DV970HD, VeraStarr 6.4SE  

Living Room:
SqueezeBox Duet, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2,
Two VSM-1, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold 

Bedroom:
Squeezebox 3, Thiel 2.3, NAD C370

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Songs you use for critical listening

2008-04-25 Thread grrman

Opalesque - A Closer View, Ralph Towner  Gary Peacock
Sheraton Gibson - Pete Townshend
My Funny Valentine - Chet Baker


-- 
grrman

Daily Gearhead

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SBR with Meridian

2008-04-25 Thread W1NDRUSH

Not wishing to highjack the thread. 

I have the following meridian setup 2 * 7000's 1 * 5000c and a 565V3. I
have spent a couple of hours trying to convince the 7000's to work with
the SB ignoring the Center. Is this possible or just adding to my woes
(the amp distorts anything other than stereo output). M say the centre
should always be the master, but i'm thinking that if i want the 7000's
to run stereo and ignore the centre the only way is to make one of them
the master.

help appreciated.


-- 
W1NDRUSH

Regards,
Andrew

SB3 + Meridian DSP 7000's 
SB3 + DSP-A1  + BW 603's

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How many reasons...

2008-04-25 Thread Phil Leigh

GuyDebord;295240 Wrote: 
 Please dont! do the NAIM vs LINN In my view both brands are worth
 50% of their sound in the brand.
 
 I have never understood coorporate brand name loyals – mcintosh, naim,
 linn, bw... – I guess fierce marketing this days is still pounding
 strong.

Guy,
I didn't and wasn't going to. I've never done that.
I happen to like the Linn active sound - but you will notice I am not
using any Linn source! I am not fiercely brand loyal and If you
examined my previous posts you will find that I do not promote Linn at
all even though I have £20k of their gear.

I also happen to like the aesthetics.

I don't mind the Naim aesthetics. I don't care for the sound - I find
it rather tiring after a while. YMMV.
I just object to blanket statements along the lines of only Naim has
p.r.a.t. - this is simply not true.


As for the insinuation that I am unduly influenced by marketing
hype...
1) I have been using Linn gear since 1982
2) I have had the chief engineer and the head of Marketing in my house
delivering and setting up my system, having driven 700 miles from
Glasgow (1988). How many corporate brands would do that? (OK I
concede that even Linn probably wouldn't do that now, but...)
3) The next system I buy may not be Linn (might be ATC or Meridian
active or Acoustic Research+Quad+sub)
4) I understand why people don't like the Linn house sound.
Regards
Phil


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann
JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC
V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1
system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend
Supertweeters, Kimber  Chord cables

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SBR with Meridian

2008-04-25 Thread Phil Leigh

W1NDRUSH;295504 Wrote: 
 Not wishing to highjack the thread. 
 
 I have the following meridian setup 2 * 7000's 1 * 5000c and a 565V3. I
 have spent a couple of hours trying to convince the 7000's to work with
 the SB ignoring the Center. Is this possible or just adding to my woes
 (the amp distorts anything other than stereo output). M say the centre
 should always be the master, but i'm thinking that if i want the 7000's
 to run stereo and ignore the centre the only way is to make one of them
 the master.
 
 help appreciated.

do you have the 5000c connected to the centre output on the 565?
Surely if you are sending a stereo file (flac/wav etc) via the sb spdif
to one of the 565 inputs, the centre wont make a sound?
I can't find any mention of the term master in the 565 manual...


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann
JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC
V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1
system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend
Supertweeters, Kimber  Chord cables

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player

2008-04-25 Thread haraldo

Phil Leigh;295533 Wrote: 
 Hmmm...not sure what you mean, Haraldo.
 :o)
 I will hear what the DS is like at 10am tomorrow...

Well I'm not sure what I mean too
Just thought it was a very well formulated post 

Awaiting your post at 10:01am


-- 
haraldo

Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop / SC7 - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell
KAV400xi - Meadowlark Kestrel2 / Duntech PCL-15
Everything is difficult before it's easy

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player

2008-04-25 Thread sc53

My local audio shop is hosting Ivor T. himself next week for a
demonstration of the Klimax DS and the less expensive Akurate DS. I'll
be hearing them both that evening, but I wish I could bring my SB3 and
laptop to do a quick comparison!! That would scandalize everyone there,
I'm sure.


-- 
sc53

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player

2008-04-25 Thread haraldo

sc53;295568 Wrote: 
 My local audio shop is hosting Ivan Tiefenbrun himself next week for a
 demonstration of the Klimax DS and the less expensive Akurate DS. I'll
 be hearing them both that evening, but I wish I could bring my SB3 and
 laptop to do a quick comparison!! That would scandalize everyone there,
 I'm sure.

Yeah !

The bad thing about such events is that you get to
superdupermegaoptimized room, everything is perfect and electronics
costing a fortune

You buy the thing and get it home and you're not even close to what you
hear in the demo. Because the demo is not about the DS, but about
demoing a mega-expensive rig. And then you realize that you may have to
change everything else to get close to the performance in the demo

Ooops and then the room

If you brought an SB3 and a Benchmark DAC1, I'm not sure people would
hear any difference whatsoever

But of course the design of the DS is stunning


-- 
haraldo

Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop / SC7 - SB3 - Benchmark DAC1 - Krell
KAV400xi - Meadowlark Kestrel2 / Duntech PCL-15
Everything is difficult before it's easy

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player

2008-04-25 Thread Pat Farrell
haraldo wrote:
 The bad thing about such events is that you get to
 superdupermegaoptimized room, everything is perfect and electronics
 costing a fortune
 Ooops and then the room

Speaker placement, and then room accoustics are the best bang for the 
buck audiophile improvement.


 If you brought an SB3 and a Benchmark DAC1, I'm not sure people would
 hear any difference whatsoever

Yes, I used a Squezeboxen to DAC-1 for years and was very happy.
I switched to the Transporter when I got it, but even now I'm not sure 
which is better they both sound wonderful, in my room. I've got a 
decent system Classé amp, Sonus Faber speakers, Rel sub. Its about all I 
can do with acceptable WAF.


-- 
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com/

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] TP as pre, split rca or not?

2008-04-25 Thread Eric Seaberg

The only question would be the input impedance of your amps, which
shouldn't really be a problem.  The output of the TransPorter is a low
enough impedance that it shouldn't have a problem driving two
hi-impedance inputs, which is typical for most RCA inputs.


-- 
Eric Seaberg

Eric Seaberg - San Diego - [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] TP as pre, split rca or not?

2008-04-25 Thread bhaagensen

Eric Seaberg;295571 Wrote: 
 The only question would be the input impedance of your amps, which
 shouldn't really be a problem.  The output of the TransPorter is a low
 enough impedance that it shouldn't have a problem driving two
 hi-impedance inputs, which is typical for most RCA inputs.

Sorry the impedance stuff is really beyond me. But it sounds like it
could work. I believe the input impedance of my amp is 47kOhms.

B.


-- 
bhaagensen

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] live recordings!

2008-04-25 Thread rbakedq

I downloaded one of the Keller Williams show in HiRez.  Great show, with
great sound quality..

Rich


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rbakedq

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] TP as pre, split rca or not?

2008-04-25 Thread Eric Seaberg

47k is, actually, quite low.  100k is typical, but as long as your
SOURCE device has a lower output impedance than your DESTINATION
device, all is good.  

According to my TP spec sheet, it's output is 100-ohms.  If you're
feeding two devices at 47k each the total impedance will be half, or
23.5k, which is WELL within tolerance.  

You NEVER want your input impedance to be equal to or lower than the
output.  There will be a level difference because of the mis-match
(simplified definition).

You should be fine with NO audio degradation.


-- 
Eric Seaberg

Eric Seaberg - San Diego - [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SBR with Meridian

2008-04-25 Thread W1NDRUSH

Phil,

The center is taking the role of master, as per documentation on setup
of DSP's. The 565 has some distortion unless output is stereo only,
which is why i was trying to bypass it altogether by plugging into the
digital input 2 on the speakers. 

The rears are BW 603's 'powered' by my old DSP-A1, (wife not
permitting any further purchases).

Thanks


-- 
W1NDRUSH

Regards,
Andrew

SB3 + Meridian DSP 7000's, 5000c, 565V3
SB3 + DSP-A1  + BW 603's

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] audio insanity

2008-04-25 Thread Anne

I am flappergasted, of all the choices you would have in this world he
has stuff that puts my neighbors junkyard to shame, period.
No way I would have any of that stuff, and yes, design does count!
But yes, we are all different.


-- 
Anne

Squeezebox 3  Stereovox XV2  Bryston B100-DA SST  Carlsson OA50.2 
Sennheiser HD580 Precision

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