[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
I have a SB3 that I run in Wireless mode. Are there any mayor sound differences to go by wire instead? What are your experiences in this area? -- tonny tonny's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
tonny;345109 Wrote: I have a SB3 that I run in Wireless mode. Are there any mayor sound differences to go by wire instead? What are your experiences in this area? Hi there, I didn't have any sound issues when using wireless - I changed to wired because the SB/TP occassionaly lost the connection to the router -- pkfox When the going gets weird - the weird turn pro. Hunter S Thompson pkfox's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5346 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
tonny;345109 Wrote: I have a SB3 that I run in Wireless mode. Are there any mayor sound differences to go by wire instead? What are your experiences in this area? Apart from dropouts (i.e. when your wireless network isn't working or isn't fast enough), there is no difference in sound. The SB receives the data in packets which it later decodes - it makes no difference whether those packets are transmitted by wire, wireless, or donkey so long as they arrive fast enough. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
A hifi dealer in Gothenburg claims that the SB is quite sensitive and can sound like a good MP3-player when using wireless.. and like a £500 CD-player wired. I have not done any testings myself. Planning on using my SB3 as a Wireless bridge and connect my NAS direct to SB3. I Guess that the SB3 and NAS will communicate directly then. -- tonny tonny's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
tonny;345173 Wrote: A hifi dealer in Gothenburg claims that the SB is quite sensitive and can sound like a good MP3-player when using wireless.. and like a £500 CD-player wired. Does this same dealer also believe his Word files will be worse when they arrive at his computer via a wireless network rather than wired? He's demonstrating a fundamental lack of understanding of how the system works as the files are transmitted as computer sound files (FLAC, WAV, MP3 etc.) to the Squeezebox which decodes them and then plays them back. It doesn't matter one bit how the files are transmitted, just like your computer files won't be altered when you send them to another computer. -- Mark Lanctot Make it so it doesn't suck is a good design target, but hard to implement - Michael Herger Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Start Small or Jump to Transporter?
If you want to go for NAS, Netgear Synology are the one, IMO, to check. The advantage if you install Squeezecenter on a NAS, is that you don't have to run a computer when listening to music (invesstment at start but in the lon run less electricity bill compared to a PC). The drawback is a NAS isn't very much powerfull but for my own needs it is ok, so far I've got a little more than 1 / 12 songs (both FLAC Mp3) I can still manage ok I think I can go further. Things to kept in mind are : - a complete scan of your musical will last about 1 hour (with the amount of files above), - using the web interface with SC installed on the NAS is slow, that's for sure (BUt you don't realy need it for listening to music) - If you go for it, be sure to choose one powerfull enough (cpu 500 Mhz or +, 128 Mo Ram. After you have to calculate how much Go you need for your musical collection (present future maybe, highly recommended a backup solution), NAS usually can handle up to 4 internal HDs, with some more space available on USB2 /or esata connections. Will end with a link for Synology Nas SC installation instruction tutorial, thanx to fliflip work : http://oinkzwurgl.org/ssods/ -- stof77 HiFi : SqueezeBox3, SSODS 3.0beta12 / SC 7.0.1 - NAS Synology DS 127+.128, NAD C320BEE, Triangle AlteaESW. HC : DVD Samsung, Denon AVR-1908 (couplé au NAD), ALteaESW + 2 vielles biblios Jamo, VP Infocus SP5700. stof77's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12949 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=51311 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
I think he is quite technical, in fact he is electrical engineer and worked with heavy HiFi gear for more than 20 years. Im computer guy myself, and I know what you mean concerning the TCP, protocols and so on.. But, I think this dealer means that the conditions concerning SB DA-conversion could be affected when running in wireless mode. Some DAC:s are quite sensitive to PSU-quality. -- tonny tonny's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Toslink question: glass vs. plastic
jhm731;343907 Wrote: If you're listening to a stock PSU in your TacT RCS, you have no clue how good it can sound. On the subject of glass vs plastic Toslink see: www.lifatec.com/toslink4.html JHM - is this a reference to the Aberdeen replacement PSU? I can imagine a replacement PSU might benefit TACT ADC's and DAC's but I don't have any of those. If there were any effect on the SPDIF, It would be in the form of noise/jitter - both of which my DAC chain rejects pretty well. I think I've mentioned before that running the TACT in bypass (flat) mode sounds identical to unplugging it completely from my system... YMMV -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=52817 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
I think some audiophiles just get scared when they hear the word wireless and think it will automatically impact sound quality without actually doing any listening tests. -- Mark Lanctot Make it so it doesn't suck is a good design target, but hard to implement - Michael Herger Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
opaqueice;345170 Wrote: The SB receives the data in packets which it later decodes - it makes no difference whether those packets are transmitted by wire, wireless, or donkey so long as they arrive fast enough. I'm a big fan of 'IPoAC' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers). It won't make it sound any different tho. -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
tonny;345173 Wrote: A hifi dealer in Gothenburg claims that the SB is quite sensitive and can sound like a good MP3-player when using wireless.. and like a £500 CD-player wired. I have not done any testings myself. Planning on using my SB3 as a Wireless bridge and connect my NAS direct to SB3. I Guess that the SB3 and NAS will communicate directly then. The hifi dealer is a fool. It doesn't make any difference. Are you running SqueezeCenter on your NAS? -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
Some people will claim that the RFI using wireless can be detrimental to the sound. http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/digital/messages/14/140731.html A PC creates a nightmare of RFI. I would never connect one directly to my audio system. Instead, I would look for devices that isolate the PC from the audio system. For example, the Ethernet DACs (eg, Squeezebox, Linn DS) will provide isolation *provided that they are connected via an Ethernet cable*. A wireless (Wi-Fi) connection just introduces more RFI. But a wired Ethernet connection has an isolation transformer that helps keep the RFI out of your system. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
I made the test (long ago) : no difference whatsoever, on any material. The contrary would have been -really- amazing. -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
Yes, I'm running SqueezeCenter on a QNAP 109. This HiFi dealer also can hear differences between diffent NAS:es too.. :-0 -- tonny tonny's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
tonny;345266 Wrote: This HiFi dealer also can hear differences between diffent NAS:es too.. :-0oO Next step : listening to differences between hard disk storage locations... Final step : does ipV6 sounds better than ipV4 on a SB ? :D -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
tonny;345173 Wrote: A hifi dealer in Gothenburg claims that the SB is quite sensitive and can sound like a #8221;good#8221; MP3-player when using wireless.. and like a £500 CD-player wired. Has he done a blind test? We had someone on this forum - sleepysurf, I think - who swore the wired quality was vastly superior to wireless. One afternoon he had his wife switch back and forth without telling him, and he tried to guess. He failed utterly (4/10 right or something). tonny;345187 Wrote: But, I think this dealer means that the conditions concerning SB DA-conversion could be affected when running in wireless mode. Some DAC:s are quite sensitive to PSU-quality. That is theoretically possible. So is the opposite (the wireless sounds better than wired due to differing CPU etc. utilization). Both are extremely unlikely, and it's very easy to find out for sure if it matters (just do a blind listening test). androidtopp;345250 Wrote: To give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he's assuming that wireless will drop out more, since it'll have more discarded packets than a wired connection? Dropped packets that can't be re-sent don't make a subtle difference in the sound. They make it stop. Now, maybe if the SC - SB connection was UDP (opaqueice, I always thought this was Universal Datagram Protocol, but maybe the D is for Donkey?), and here I am assuming it's not...can't remember off top of my head, but I can't imagine it is...I can see where wireless would be problematic. But so would wired, most likely, depending on how much bandwidth you're needing. I think it's TCP/IP (which stands for Transported Completely by Parakeet). JJZolx;345258 Wrote: Some people will claim that the RFI using wireless can be detrimental to the sound. http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/digital/messages/14/140731.html They call it audio -asylum- for a reason. But anyway, if that's the problem you'd better unplug your router, not just go to a wired connection. And your cordless phones and those of your neighbors, and all the radio stations within 30 miles or so. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
opaqueice;345280 Wrote: Dropped packets that can't be re-sent don't make a subtle difference in the sound. They make it stop. Exactly. Which is why I don't think this is what the guy means. I don't think you need to be an audiophile to tell when the network can't keep up. tonny;345266 Wrote: This HiFi dealer also can hear differences between diffent NAS:es too.. :-0 No, this is definitely true. But it's more a difference in playback speed. If the data is on the *outside* rings of the hard drive platters, further from the spindle, then it gets read faster - at a constant angular velocity, you cover more distance per unit time on the outside tracks, as linear velocity is faster towards the edge of the plarter than it is at the center of the platter. So if you don't want your music to sound faster or slower than originally intended, you should try to keep your data in the middle of the platters. He probably knows of some NAS devices that have a special algorithm that does just this. -- androidtopp My SB3 is the most expensive part of my stereo. So I'm not going to brag about it. http://www.last.fm/user/androidtopp androidtopp's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19681 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
Trust me on this one... trolling in this forum is unnecessary. They jump into the boat on their own. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
JJZolx;345258 Wrote: Some people will claim that the RFI using wireless can be detrimental to the sound. http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/digital/messages/14/140731.html A PC creates a nightmare of RFI. I would never connect one directly to my audio system. Instead, I would look for devices that isolate the PC from the audio system. For example, the Ethernet DACs (eg, Squeezebox, Linn DS) will provide isolation *provided that they are connected via an Ethernet cable*. A wireless (Wi-Fi) connection just introduces more RFI. But a wired Ethernet connection has an isolation transformer that helps keep the RFI out of your system. Okay, I read a lot of bull in this thread but I just can't let this pass without jumping into the boat ;-) RFI means it's nasty stuff at radio frequencies. Now please someone explain me how a transformer can block that. The unshielded ethernet cable will actually introduce -more- RFI into the SB compared to using a wifi-link. Maybe they mean that by not using wifi this wifi-signal doesn't get into the box? Well, maybe if you throw your wifi-router in the trash plus those of all your neighbours etc. because as long as the SB isn't in a Faraday cage that stuff will all get in there so better put it to use. Can I come out of the boat now? ;-) Nick. -- DeVerm DeVerm's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18104 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
First let me say that I categorically do NOT believe that wired sounds any different from wireless in an SB2 or SB3. However, I should point out my own experience in re-housing an SB2 in a chassis that contains my DIY pre-amp. Being in the same chassis, the SB2 circuit boards and the op amps in my pre-amp ended up somewhat closer together than would normally be the case for discretely housed units. In this configuration I'm afraid I definitely COULD hear the impact of the wireless connection. The music sounded the same, obviously, but during very quiet periods (eg the gaps between tracks) I could distinctly hear a very quiet fizzing static sound corresponding to the SB2 buffer refilling over the wifi link. I was able to reduce this noise to inaudible levels by moving the SB2 circuit board no more than a foot or so from the op amps. When I connected via cable (from a nearby homeplug), the wifi card was unpowered, and the static noise was totally absent. Given this experience, I would not consider it completely out of the question that a wireless SB3 placed directly next to the op amp section in a separate pre-amp could induce some static noise. I hesitated to make this post, as it might give ammunition to a point of view I don't agree with. My own DIY configuration was definitely not a normal setup, and it should perhaps serve more as a warning to DIY builders than to users of the conventional off-the-shelf units. -- chill chill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10839 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 - Wireless or Wired
chill;345383 Wrote: First let me say that I categorically do NOT believe that wired sounds any different from wireless in an SB2 or SB3. However, I should point out my own experience in re-housing an SB2 in a chassis that contains my DIY pre-amp. Being in the same chassis, the SB2 [...] quiet fizzing static sound corresponding to the SB2 buffer refilling over the wifi link. [...] I hesitated to make this post, as it might give ammunition to a point of view I don't agree with. My own DIY configuration was definitely not a normal setup, and it should perhaps serve more as a warning to DIY builders than to users of the conventional off-the-shelf units. Don't hesitate ;-) You could have experienced direct RFI from the SB to your pre-amp but more often this noise is transferred via a shared power-supply or any cabling or ground-connection between the two (even though moving items around makes a change indicating direct RF...) Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequency_interference to find out how misleading RFI can be. Both situations can be resolved but you need to determine where the problem is first. Easiest is to connect SB to it's own PSU. If that helps you need to filter the DC. If there's no change, disconnect audio-link between SB and pre-amp (if that helps you need a choke in that cable) If it's really direct RF, you need to do some RF shielding. If it's RF via power-supply, you need to block it using a ferrite-bead-coil and some capacitors. This filter is very easy to do as what you want to pass is DC and what you want to block is RF which is miles apart. I can give specifics on how to build that; parts only cost a couple of bucks. If it's direct RF you need to create two compartments within the housing. Separation plus housing itself needs to be metal or cover the inside with spray-glue aluminum-foil or better, a conducting paint that's available in DIY spray cans. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RF_shielding In my own RF designs I put a small ceramic capacitor (1 nF) across Vcc and ground pins of every IC/chip as close to the chip as possible on the PCB. Many of those might not be needed but some are and they are cheap enough to do this for home-build projects. A couple of those added across the power-supply pins of your op-amps (assuming you use op-amps) can be all the cure you need. Cut the leads as short as possible and solder it across the pins directly on the underside of the PCB. If you make your own PCB's, make sure that more than 50% of copper surface after etching is ground and decouple DC for RF at every IC. good luck, Nick. -- DeVerm DeVerm's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18104 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=53207 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
