Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter knob as volume control only
The Bugzilla server at bugs.slimdevices.com requires its own registration, it is not connected to the forums userid. -- Normunds Normunds's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33579 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69868 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
I like Ethan's writeup. The comb filtering effect he describes is interesting and I want to learn more about that. Skimming through the article I didn't see any mention of sampling frequencies and bit depth. I wonder if he feels he hears any difference between 24/96 and 24/192? I looked back at my post and the first statement has science always been correct and able to explain yet undiscovered phenomenon is not trying to say that current science is wrong. The statement is made only in this context discussing sampling frequency and bit depth, because it can be measured. A file recorded at 24/192 holds more information that 24/96. The analogy to digital photos I guess can be made where higher resolution means more information is contained in the same image. Can the difference be identified? Maybe not by just anyone. So all I am asking is whether the science and measurements are looking at the whole picture. Is there something happening at the quantum level for example, yet to be described by science. And the only reason I ask this is because other people like Ethan Winer, who have been in the recording/mastering industry for many years, have stated they do hear a difference. I'm not talking about cables... don't want to go there. :) I should have been more clear because I am aware that cable proponents use the same argument. On a side note SHM-CD and Blu-Spec CDs are common these days. Many claim that they sound better that the original CDs yet they contain the same masterings. The only thing different is the materials used to make the CD. People have ripped the SHM-CD and the regular CD (using EAC for example) and found the rips to be identical, yet to some they sound different. Some of those people say that playback from the hard drive as a computer file gives a different listening experience, better than listening direct from CD, and the 2 ripped files sound identical. ??? No idea what's going on there, I haven't been subjected to it and I'm not claiming it is true or false. Just pointing it out. Another one of those discussions I suppose, with 2 camps equally defending what they believe to be true or sensible. TV -- tv69 tv69's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32022 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] US Amplifier advice please
USAudio;476097 Wrote: I think it's great that while you're in the US you want to give some US amps a try! There are a ton of solid-state integrated options, here's some US-made units you might check out: Ayre http://www.ayre.com/products_detail.cfm?productid=12 Portal http://www.portalaudio.com/panache.html Bel Canto http://www.belcantodesign.com/Belcanto_eOneS300iu.html Wyred4Sound http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/site/74030/117839/shopping/shopping-view.html?pid=362236b_id=find_groupid=18158 Val Alstine http://www.avahifi.com/root/equipment/control_amplifier/index.htm NuForce http://www.nuforce.com/hi/products/integratedamp/index.php Red Wine http://www.redwineaudio.com/products/signature_302 CIAudio http://www.ciaudio.com/ (No integrateds yet but great stuff for the money) If you want to spend really big bucks there are even MORE high-end options! Great list thanks. I don't want to spend crazy amounts, unless they come with a 110/240V switch! -- Seineseeker SlimServer: 6.3.1 + AlienBBC. Amp: Rega Mira (Salon) / Creek 4040 (Pallier). Speakers: JMLAB Chorus (Salon) / Scandyna MiniPods (Pallier). Clients: 2 Squeezebox 3 Seineseeker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4591 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70001 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] New transport user queries
FARQ;476244 Wrote: I have all of the naff auto room EQ and Audyssey disabled on the Denon When listening to music I only use either Pure Direct, or 5ch Stereo so it powers all the speakers. Well, I suppose that the Denon's preamp stage covers (and influences) most of the differences between your DAC8 and the Transporter analog output. On the other hand, if you consider that the highs do appear to be quite brittle and harsh, especially at loud volumes then, probably, the power amp has some difficulties with the 703's. Or your room has a problem regarding the mid-high frequencies. I would suggest two things : First, you should try putting +12dB level on the analog input of the TP. If you still have the harsh on high volumes problem, try placing your speakers differently, or try a different amp. -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70132 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
Your digital photography analogy doesn't work. The Information that can be captured in an image is much, much greater and inherently more complex than ANY audio requirement. Light and sound are very different beasts! In terms of AUDIO, 44.1khz sampling is all that is needed to capture the information. (refer Shannon et al - Information Theory). The key assumption being that the Nyquist frequency of 44.1 divided by 2 is adequate. If we only want frequencies up to a max of 22.050Khz then it is. It's not about information - it's about processing artefacts (ringing, aliasing etc) in the information recovery process. This is where higher sampling really can help because it makes it easier to deal with those artefacts. But it's not about more information... I do think that high res files are a good thing, but not because they have more information or restore missing information, rather because they can be mastered and reproduced with less problems and compromises... As for anyone who can hear a difference between 2 bit-for-bit identical files on a computer... Guess we are lucky that computers and the Internet work at all really. By the way, I have lots of shm cd's and most of them sound better than their non-shm equivalents. One thing I have noticed but haven't had time to drill into yet is that the equivalent FLAC files tend to be somewhat (5% ish) larger... This implies a difference in the mastering. I don't believe that the disk coating is having any effect at all (it might on a conventional CD player, but not when ripping on a rom drive...) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
tv69;476340 Wrote: A file recorded at 24/192 holds more information that 24/96. The only information that 24/192 holds which is not present in 24/96 are frequencies above 48kHz. Perhaps that might be of significance to bats - I personally don't care, since my hearing maxes out around the 16kHz mark. tv69;476340 Wrote: Is there something happening at the quantum level for example, yet to be described by science. Quantum Mechanics raised, thus the audiophile-specific version of Godwin's Law applies :-) -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
Phil Leigh;476362 Wrote: By the way, I have lots of shm cd's and most of them sound better than their non-shm equivalents. One thing I have noticed but haven't had time to drill into yet is that the equivalent FLAC files tend to be somewhat (5% ish) larger... This implies a difference in the mastering. I don't believe that the disk coating is having any effect at all (it might on a conventional CD player, but not when ripping on a rom drive...) I've examined this, as I have some shm myself. Your assumption is right: shm discs use the best sounding mastering existing. Sometimes, this mastering is hard (if not impossible) to find on normal CDs. On certain disks, however, where the mastering can be identical to the latest release(for instance: on Supertramp Even in the quietest moments) the FLAC extracted is identical. So no difference at all. ;) -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
Themis;476383 Wrote: I've examined this, as I have some shm myself. Your assumption is right: shm discs use the best sounding mastering existing. Sometimes, this mastering is hard (if not impossible) to find on normal CDs. On certain disks, however, where the mastering can be identical to the latest release(for instance: on Supertramp Even in the quietest moments) the FLAC extracted is identical. So no difference at all. ;) Hmm - the SHM CD's tend to use a master that is unique to the Japanese market and Japanese issues in general. However as you say in some cases the masters are identical. I must do more research into this. One thing of note: In my experience, the differences we are talking about here are bigger than differences between DAC's and amps - not subtle ones. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
Phil Leigh;476394 Wrote: One thing of note: In my experience, the differences we are talking about here are bigger than differences between DAC's and amps - not subtle ones. Yes, you're right. Big differences, thus not media/dac differences, rather mastering differences. SHM use very good masters, indeed. -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
Themis;476395 Wrote: Yes, you're right. Big differences, thus not media/dac differences, rather mastering differences. SHM use very good masters, indeed. It's a pity they are so hard to get hold of... (in the UK) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
Phil Leigh;476412 Wrote: It's a pity they are so hard to get hold of... (in the UK) I buy mine on ebay. ;) for instance: http://stores.shop.ebay.com.my/tokyodreamdisc-store__W0QQ_armrsZ1 -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
Themis;476421 Wrote: I buy mine on ebay. ;) for instance: http://stores.shop.ebay.com.my/tokyodreamdisc-store__W0QQ_armrsZ1 There are cheaper places, these days price seems going up, though... Thanks - very helpful (and costly to me...) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
Phil Leigh;476444 Wrote: Thanks - very helpful (and costly to me...) You're welcome. Prices have almost doubled since last year. Perhaps it has to do with $$ exchange rate... I don't know.. -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter version question
If I recall correctly, the thinking was that 'Logitech' was not a brand that would impress audiophiles, so we were better off putting 'Transporter' on the front. :) -- ChrisOwens Christopher Owens QA Manager chris_ow...@logitech.com ChrisOwens's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4240 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70008 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter version question
ChrisOwens;476585 Wrote: If I recall correctly, the thinking was that 'Logitech' was not a brand that would impress audiophiles, so we were better off putting 'Transporter' on the front. :) He He. Way to state the obvious :) -- riffer riffer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13459 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70008 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] US Amplifier advice please
What's your budget? I could recommend Mark Levinson, Lamm, Herron Audio, but these can get pricey. Simaudio is good (that is what I am running), if you are willing to go Canadian. -- riffer riffer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13459 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70001 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter and Tact RCS 2.2X
I use the Lyngdorf DPA-1, after comparisons with the tact I thought it was a superior component, anyway they share the same origins, but the Room Perfect plus the magnificent D/A conversion simply sold it. I have the transporter feeding a digital signal via the AES/EBU out and into the DPA-1. The d/a in the Lyngdorf is better to my ears than the one in the TP, lets say it is less dull and more analogue. -- GuyDebord '*LAST.FM*' (http://www.last.fm/user/bloodyrosa) - SPEAKERS: Kharma CRM 3.2FE - v/d Hul Inspiration - PRE: Lyngdorf DPA-1 - Kharma Grand Reference XLR's - AMP: Halcro MC20 - ANALOGUE: Clearaudio Ambient CMB, Satisfy Carbon Lyra Helikon SL, ASR Basis Exclusive phono pre - Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II XLRs - DIGITAL: Slim Devices Transporter - Siltech Golden Ridge AES/EBU - AC: PS Audio Power Plant Premier, PS Audio Statement(PPP), ASR Magic Cord(ASR), Siltech SPX30 MKII's for the Lyngdorf, Halcro Transporter GuyDebord's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14587 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70166 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
There is a new development on the sound quality front, a couple days ago I upgraded the firmware and was floored to find it sounded quite a bit better over the analog outs. I don't know why, the developers say the didn't do anything to the audio code. They did say that an over speedup of the code had been implemented, this might be the cause of the better analog SQ. I haven't had time to check out the S/PDIF yet to see if it had any change. BTW this did NOT take my main listening rig to hear the difference, I can clearly hear it on a $5 pair of headphones plugged directly into the phone jack on the touch! John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
JohnSwenson;476752 Wrote: ...I upgraded the firmware and was floored to find it sounded quite a bit better over the analog outs. I don't know why, the developers say the didn't do anything to the audio code. They did say that an over speedup of the code had been implemented, this might be the cause of the better analog SQ... Can anybody comment on if this is plausible, or how a software update not touching audio code, could possibly affect the analog output quality? (Not doubting you John, as I've previously heard such things myself from the SB3 - just wondering how such an affect can even be remotely possible...) -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
Remember this is all just conjecture, actually being able to measure this stuff is tough. One possibility is that as code gets tighter, the loops are smaller etc, more time is spent in code that stays in the processor cache, thus there are fewer accesses to the main RAM. With fewer accesses there will be less noise on the power and ground traces on the board. This can wind up producing lower jitter on the clock and data feeding the DAC chip and lower noise getting injected into the audio path. Its possible it can also cause less noise on the PS and GND traces from the processor itself, but it could also make it worse! Finding precise mechanisms for this sort of thing is very difficult to do, especially because there is no definitive mechanism or measurement for what causes the type of audible change I'm hearing. If we don't know what difference in the audio signal produces the difference in perceived sound, its really tough to figure how changes in softwar could produce those changes! So for now its all just guesswork and loose correlations. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
JohnSwenson wrote: Remember this is all just conjecture, actually being able to measure this stuff is tough. One possibility is that as code gets tighter, the loops are smaller etc, more time is spent in code that stays in the processor cache, thus there are fewer accesses to the main RAM. While it is just conjecture, similar concepts have been used by the cryptographers to break algorithm by noticing relative cache hit rates and timing, and using that to make guided guesses as to the keys. Never trust a computer. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
Hawkmoon;475879 Wrote: Just wondered what your thoughts were on the SB Touch, both in terms of its own internal DAC and as a transport feeding an external DAC? I think the Touch will be good for both of these options. I like the Touch analog outs and a bonus is that it does 24/96 native. My opinion is it is better by far over the SB3 and Receiver. The Touch is better then the Duet or SB3 on the S/PDIF into my Dodson DA-217 MK II. So good as a transport feeding a really good DAC. It is not as good as the Transporter but it is right behind it in the current line up. -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: Second Boom Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
