Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Touch vs. Transporter digital output (again)
mswlogo;550412 Wrote: They are both absolutely 100% bit perfect (TosLink and Coax, Wifi and Wired). I've recorded the SPDIF on both and neither will miss a bit. Only difference may be jitter. But as dicussed elsewhere a good DAC will take care of that. Interesting, I've never found a DAC that can completely eliminate jitter and I've tried a few, including a Bel Canto DAC2 (that supposedly reclocked) and my existing Meridian 568.2 that uses some clever FIFO. On both DACs, different quality digital sources sounded different, implying that neither was fully successful in eliminating jitter. -- Mr_Sukebe SB Touch, Meridian 568.2, Bel Canto Evo2i, Impulse Ta'us, Coherent system, audio-technica and Zanash cables, Stillpoints Mr_Sukebe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10609 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78441 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Touch vs. Transporter digital output (again)
Mr_Sukebe;551811 Wrote: Interesting, I've never found a DAC that can completely eliminate jitter and I've tried a few, including a Bel Canto DAC2 (that supposedly reclocked) and my existing Meridian 568.2 that uses some clever FIFO. On both DACs, different quality digital sources sounded different, implying that neither was fully successful in eliminating jitter. Not necessarily. Just because a DAC sounds different does not necessarily mean jitter is involved... every DAC has a slightly different filtering circuit after the DAC and a slightly different analogue output stage and so will have a signature sound of its own. DAC's are no different to any other source component - they all have their own take on what the output should sound like. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78441 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Touch vs. Transporter digital output (again)
Phil Leigh;551821 Wrote: Not necessarily. Just because a DAC sounds different does not necessarily mean jitter is involved... every DAC has a slightly different filtering circuit after the DAC and a slightly different analogue output stage and so will have a signature sound of its own. DAC's are no different to any other source component - they all have their own take on what the output should sound like. Phil, I think you've misunderstood what Mr_Sukebe is saying. He is saying that he hears differences in output *from the same DAC* when using different SPDIF sources. So he's not comparing one DAC to another. That said, I remain unconvinced that jitter is the cause of these differences. Too many people say that there are only two things that can possibly distinguish digital sources: the bits they deliver, and the jitter. Not so - there are two another possible sources of difference that I can think of: a). The EMI radiated by the devices which can affect the operation of other nearby analogue circuitry. b). Grounding topology which may allow noise to transfer between the ground planes of devices. On unbalanced devices, the ground plane becomes part of the signal (in that the actual signal is in fact the difference between the signal and ground). Therefore if there is any noise on the ground plane it gets interpreted as signal. (*Perfect* shunting of the ground plane to earth is of course impossible). -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78441 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Touch vs. Transporter digital output (again)
cliveb;551849 Wrote: Phil, I think you've misunderstood what Mr_Sukebe is saying. He is saying that he hears differences in output *from the same DAC* when using different SPDIF sources. So he's not comparing one DAC to another. That said, I remain unconvinced that jitter is the cause of these differences. Too many people say that there are only two things that can possibly distinguish digital sources: the bits they deliver, and the jitter. Not so - there are two another possible sources of difference that I can think of: a). The EMI radiated by the devices which can affect the operation of other nearby analogue circuitry. b). Grounding topology which may allow noise to transfer between the ground planes of devices. On unbalanced devices, the ground plane becomes part of the signal (in that the actual signal is in fact the difference between the signal and ground). Therefore if there is any noise on the ground plane it gets interpreted as signal. (*Perfect* shunting of the ground plane to earth is of course impossible). erm yes...you are right, I misread it. Sorry Mr Sukube. I think your item B is of great interest, plus contamination of the mains from RFI. I've been playing with my RFI sniffer. Some interesting results so far, but it's too early to form any definite conclusions. I'm in the processs of switching to shielded mains cables... (I already had them on half my equipment). One thing - the amount of RFI from the mains lead of my (LCD) TV in standby is worrying... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78441 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: No more bug fixes in firmware
andyg;54 Wrote: No, the topic should read No more enhancements. Bugs will continue to be fixed when necessary, the issues linked earlier in this topic are very minor or were enhancements. -- andyg Well this remark convinced me and I have bought a Touch as second player. Teus -- Teus de Jong Teus de Jong's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15415 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78453 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: No more bug fixes in firmware
Teus de Jong;551855 Wrote: Well this remark convinced me and I have bought a Touch as second player. Teus Transporter is in a different league... I would understand if you say I have bought PS Audio PerfectWave DAC/Transport Combo :-) Or, I went with Computer/DAC (say, Weiss or MSB) solution... But Touch? -- michael123 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78453 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: No more bug fixes in firmware
michael123;551870 Wrote: Transporter is in a different league... I would understand if you say I have bought PS Audio PerfectWave DAC/Transport Combo :-) Or, I went with Computer/DAC (say, Weiss or MSB) solution... But Touch? Michael, the Touch is a very, very good transport. One of the best I've heard at any price. The quality of its S/PDIF output is superb. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78453 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: No more bug fixes in firmware
Phil Leigh;551876 Wrote: Michael, the Touch is a very, very good transport. One of the best I've heard at any price. The quality of its S/PDIF output is superb. yes, but somebody who is into Transporter shall buy it due to its DAC sonic capabilities.. Although Transporter still has some advantages (AES/EBU, BNC, much better power supply and clock), it is not clear how that will show up within particular setup, and I agree that in general people shall buy Touch (if looking for transport).. -- michael123 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78453 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: No more bug fixes in firmware
michael123;551878 Wrote: yes, but somebody who is into Transporter shall buy it due to its DAC sonic capabilities.. Although Transporter still has some advantages (AES/EBU, BNC, much better power supply and clock), it is not clear how that will show up within particular setup, and I agree that in general people shall buy Touch (if looking for transport).. I appreciate the balanced out connections of the transporter. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78453 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Touch vs. Transporter digital output (again)
cliveb;551849 Wrote: Phil, I think you've misunderstood what Mr_Sukebe is saying. He is saying that he hears differences in output *from the same DAC* when using different SPDIF sources. So he's not comparing one DAC to another. That said, I remain unconvinced that jitter is the cause of these differences. Too many people say that there are only two things that can possibly distinguish digital sources: the bits they deliver, and the jitter. Not so - there are two another possible sources of difference that I can think of: a). The EMI radiated by the devices which can affect the operation of other nearby analogue circuitry. b). Grounding topology which may allow noise to transfer between the ground planes of devices. On unbalanced devices, the ground plane becomes part of the signal (in that the actual signal is in fact the difference between the signal and ground). Therefore if there is any noise on the ground plane it gets interpreted as signal. (*Perfect* shunting of the ground plane to earth is of course impossible). You points on A and B are correct. But you'd have to have one really F'd up setup for those to occur (and have cables significantly change it). I have tons of Meridian boxes and never found a digital cable to make any difference. I've done similar experiments that I posted and recorded the signal right at the digital tape output of 861 to assure data was perfect from rip to processor. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78441 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
