Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] S/PDIF cables should be (a) - >=1.5m or (b) as short as possible?
cliveb;602357 Wrote: > Proper 75ohm cable & termination would indeed do the trick. > But since most SPDIF connections use RCA plugs/sockets, that's a moot > point - the basic geometry of an RCA connector means 75ohm is not > achievable. moot –adjective 1. open to discussion or debate; debatable: a moot point. A very misunderstood word ! -- pski real stereo doesn't just wake the neighbors, it -enrages- them.. pski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84751 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)
Phil Leigh;602729 Wrote: > I don't know... I will try... > > As it stands, iPlayer (listen live anyway) works but doesn't invoke > inguz... > I guess you want to use inguz on the iplayer streams? Getting it to work on the iPlayer AAC Live streams would be fantastic, (or even better of course to work on all internet radio!). It seems odd to me that it doesn't happen "naturally" but I guess the processing stream is different .. I don't really have much of an idea as to the internal workings of it all unfort.. -- rbl rbl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4517 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] S-Booster
I have experienced the sbooster on my SBT and after a few days, I don't notice any difference anymore between my analog an digital outputs. My first impression is that the improvement is higher on the analog than on the digital. But, to be honnest, the supply of my DAC (V-DAC with standard PSU) is of poor quality, and this may explain why. I will try soon with a linear PSU on the V-DAC. -- evdplancke evdplancke's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43147 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81454 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Does Server-side FLAC-PCM conversion DOWNSAMPLE 24bit/96khz
Sorry for being unbelievably unclear sometimes :) One point I'm trying to make is don't mess with file conversion settings or hack your own convert.conf *if* you don't know what to do or are prepared to spend a lot off time figuring it out . The default settings is fine for almost all user and will ensure that the proper transcoding is used when needed . Then you always will have the highest possible sample rate the player supports ( or the least capable player in a sync group ). Weighted against saving bandwidth. And it will work for for example 192kHz flac files or when syncing with a 48kHz only player and other unforeseen situations . Disabling functionality can lead to that expected functions is not supported and whatnot. You will notice when some thing stops working. I don't know all the History of these finely grained very complicated setup, but it seems to be there foremost for supporting cpu starved platforms such as small NAS boxes etc ,to actually avoid server side transcoding that would overwhelm them (not invoking more serverside transcoding) . One need can be that you actually have wav files and want to turn off the transcoding to flac that is default. For example keeping flac as flac and wav as wav otherwise wav files are transcoded to flac to save bandwith but a very tiny NAS may not have the cpu to do it.. ( But on the other hand you should not really be using wav files for all kinds of practical reasons, but you can if you absolutely have too ) Doing your own custom-convert.conf files seems to be for people wanting to pipe the output trough inguz or brutefir for DRC . Or other very special needs or preferences. But the mere existence of these settings seems to make people always believe that is a sonic difference for every setting ? when they are there for practical reasons to cater for more unusual server needs. Just relax and listen to the good music :) -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) PLEASE FIX BUG 112 http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=112 Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84787 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Rega DAC - Has anyone auditioned one yet?
Thanks for the link. Looks like someone with a Touch has has a go with one, and was impressed, even favorably comparing the results to the DACMagic. -- whoosh *Server*: Ubuntu 8.04 Server on Intel 1.66GHz Core Duo Mac Mini, 1GB RAM, 72GB internal for OS, 750GB Maxtor One Touch Firewire for media. SC 7.3.1~24372 *Main Audio*: SB Touch> Audio Research LS2B mkII > Audio Research VT100 mkII > Soliloquy 5.3 *Work Audio*: SB Receiver > Jolida SJ801 > NHT Super Zero's http://www.last.fm/user/megamucho whoosh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21818 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84783 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Does Server-side FLAC-PCM conversion DOWNSAMPLE 24bit/96khz
diego;602876 Wrote: > OK, thanks for that note, I will read and think it over again and let > you know about the result! However, to be honest, I don't own a DTS > file, I do not even know, how they look like... (extension or other > file requisites...), as I do only use "normal" stereo files for > listening to music. And I am at that point not sure where I can get > one... But I will google it up and give it a try! Best regards! I appreciate wanting to test to confirm for yourself, but you don't actually have to find a file and test as many people have already done this and confirmed the test results. But you can likely find a free file posted somewhere to test with. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84787 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Does Server-side FLAC-PCM conversion DOWNSAMPLE 24bit/96khz
OK, thanks for that note, I will read and think it over again and let you know about the result! However, to be honest, I don't own a DTS file, I do not even know, how they look like... (extension or other file requisites...), as I do only use "normal" stereo files for listening to music. And I am at that point not sure where I can get one... But I will google it up and give it a try! Best regards! -- diego diego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40897 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84787 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Does Server-side FLAC-PCM conversion DOWNSAMPLE 24bit/96khz
diego;602773 Wrote: > Would probably be a nice test to do... however, I might not have > understood 100%, but would that prove that the server dos no down > sampling on high res files...? I mean, the resulting CD rip file would > be 16 bit 44.1 khz stereo - and nobody claims that these are down > sampled... Yes, you misunderstood the description of this test. This test is NOT ripping the DTS file to 16/44.1. Look over the description again. Bottom line, this test will prove that on those files there is NO downsampling. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84787 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Does Server-side FLAC-PCM conversion DOWNSAMPLE 24bit/96khz
Phil Leigh;602776 Wrote: > Can we stop this? There's no debate or discussion needed. > Fact: The server does NOT downsample for the Touch or Transporter for > ANY file <=96kHz. > > UNLESS YOU HAVE MANUALLY EDITED THE CONVERT.CONF FILE Dear Phil Right. Nobody forces you to keep answering, if you consider everything resolved for you. However, "can we stop this" when others are discussing, without anybody that offended you, seems to me, is quite an attitude ;-) . There was still an open question I asked you, but of course, it's on your own discretion to answer or not. Enjoy a nice evening! -- diego diego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40897 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84787 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)
Thanks Mervin, Given my inability to get Inguz working with Touch - it's OK on older Slimserver versions with my SB3 - installing and learning Linux might at least work for me if I can find the time! It has been one of those things I've been meaning to do for years, so now I have some motivation. Cheers, Graeme -- Riddo Riddo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40809 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Does Server-side FLAC-PCM conversion DOWNSAMPLE 24bit/96khz
Can we stop this? There's no debate or discussion needed. Fact: The server does NOT downsample for the Touch or Transporter for ANY file <=96kHz. UNLESS YOU HAVE MANUALLY EDITED THE CONVERT.CONF FILE -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84787 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Does Server-side FLAC-PCM conversion DOWNSAMPLE 24bit/96khz
Thanks for that comments, Mnyb's! Mnyb;602719 Wrote: > If you have a DAC thats indicates icomming sample and bitrate. > > it's quite easy to see that you indeed get 24/96 . > Well, unfortunately mine doesn't. > > > Also with the right logging turned on the server settings you see in > the server wich transcoding parameters that where choosen for the > transcoding. > > Hm... I'm honestly not so much into that, so I don't know if I will be able to figure out, how to decrypt a log file, and with what settings I will have the right data logged. > > > it has also been tested to death before, this Q pops up every odd week > since forever since SOX transcoding where introduced. They should > really change this bitrate indicators to be more correct. > > how right > > > But it's given low or no priority as the performance is not affected > only the piece of mind of audiophiles ;) It's a cosmetic bug . > > right too. Just asked myself if I am an audiophile... as I actually don't consider myself as one. Some definition I found says: "Quite often, audiophiles are as passionate about the equipment they use as the music they listen to." For my part, that's not true, fortunately, I don't care about the gear, as long as I feel as near to the live music as possible inside my living room... and of course, I don't want to buy expensive hi-res files from hdtracks, to have them down sampled after... so that's why I wish to have certainty. > > > Not really it is a bug that hit the forum as we have a tread about it > every week :-/ > > My suggestion has always been that this indication is not really > needed, just say "transcoded" or similar. Normal users wont care, > audiophiles get upset with the current bug, and the OCD's among us can > always use the logg functions to verify our settings ;) yes I have done > that... and peekat at what my DAC is reporting 96k 88.2k 44.1k or 48k. > > " > -Now, it is generally accepted that converting FLAC-Files on the Server > (and not on the touch) delivers better sound quality (like suggested e. > g. on http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...x-Touch-Review )- > " > > No it's not generaly aceppted that it is soo, maybe by some audiophile > fringe, but it has no basis in reality or science. > Science has not measured what comes out of the speakers, comparing both settings, I guess... As for "reality", I did the comparison, measuring with my ears. I am not a physician, but a musician and with ears quite a bit trained... And I am obviously not the only one that came to the result that there IS a difference. > > Same audiphile's places rocks on their components, and spray their > cables with mystical iontments from nordost ? > If you were a sportsman, would you accept if someone tells you not to do sports, because other sportsmen use t-shirts with weird colors on their bicycles ...? > > If one hear a night and day diff it usually down to use of replay gain > tags and volume adjustment setting (many have such tags and the funtion > is sometimes on) not realising that the overall volume will be roughly > 10dB lower, just turn of volume adjustment and they are the same. As > the transcoded stream does not cary these tags replay gain will not be > used with WAV so it will ofcourse be a staggering diff as wav is much > louder. > With all volume adjustment settings off it should be the same. > Of course volume settings are off. Thats why we odd audiophiles use preamps ;-). And well, "should" be the same is the physicians answer, the musician will tell you: listen... Back to the technicians logic (just trying ;-) ): You might have observed that sound quality on the Touch degrades when it handles high processor load. For instance, to test: Connect a USB hard disk with a couple of thousands of flac files on it to the touch, play a file, and then, open the music directory on the touch's display... your music quality will degrade very obviously while the internal server crawls through the files. So why should a higher processor load for decoding flacs not have a influence, too? The difference might be small, but if you really pay attention to that, audible. Question of preference more than question of science... > > Bit perfectness can be tested with a DTS track encapsulated in normal > stereo wav or flac , if one bit is off your HT processor will only > output white noise. > You can test he whole chain, burn such track on a cd and rip it with > your normal settings and it easy to see if something is changing the > bitstream somewhere from CD ripper to tags or sbs settings or other > things. > DTS will only work with the volume at 100% btw as the digital volume > also shiftsd the bits, so the "dts bit" will be off and the processor > confused. Would probably be a nice test to do... however, I might not have understood 100%, but would that prove that the server dos no down sampling on high res files...? I mean, the resulting CD rip file would be 16 bit 44.1 khz stereo - and n
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)
Riddo;602537 Wrote: > Hi Mervin, > Where is the best place for a complete beginner to learn about using > brutefirdrc for my SB Touch? > Cheers, > Graeme If you really a complete beginner, including new to linux, then the learning curve would be: - install ubuntu (desktop edition) on your pc - get familiar with ubuntu (file system, including some basic console commands) - install brutefir (the basic engine) and set up 1-2 filters as test cases, eg. a simple parametric filter, to get familiar with how brutedir reads an audio stream, applies filter(s), then outputs the filtered stream - use brutefirdrc instructions (http://klaasprause.com/brutefirdrc/installation/) to install brutefirdrc, up to step 4. Step 5 onwards are for older squeezebox remotes. At this stage I can send the skeleton instructions that Klass (brutefirdrc author) provided me, and some sample scripts - measure, generate filters (over and over again until things sound right, no clipping, etc, etc) Realistically this is not a short learning curve. I was familiar (intermediate user level) with linux, and took 2-3 leisurely weeks to get the feel of brutefir (while waiting for measurement mic), then another couple of evenings to get the first track playing via brutefirdrc. I expect Inguz would be a little more straightforward, but measurement and filter generation / tweaking learning curve is likely to be similar. -- mervin_b mervin_b's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42376 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)
rbl;602602 Wrote: > This works brilliantly on my win7 laptop. Thanks very much for the post. > Do you know if it is a simple matter to get it to work with BBC iPlayer > and other radio stations? Or would this be opening a can of worms. Not > sure if the processing is the same for radio as for the music library, > or in fact if Inguz ever worked with BBC iPlayer. I don't know... I will try... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Does Server-side FLAC-PCM conversion DOWNSAMPLE 24bit/96khz
diego;602712 Wrote: > Thanks Phil, for your reply! > > Based on my proper experience with a touch and a pretty "audiophile" > chain behind, including an external DAC, I confirm, that converting > FLACs to WAV on the server does indeed sound better than streaming the > FLACs as such to the Touch - as far as 16 bit / 44 khz FLAC files are > concerned. > > Now, may I just add one question, can you please clarify, where you > have that certainty from, that no down-sampling happens? Have you seen > inside the squeezebox server software and analyzed it? Or have you > somehow measured the stream? Because just 1/2-phrase statements of > "developers" without any rationale do not actually sound very > convincing to me... (Like e.g. Andy's here: > http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80563&page=1 ). In > particular, the "rationale" there is not convincing at all. To say that > the bitrate indicated is only a "guess" is strange. It is pretty easy to > guess, that the weight of a 24bit/96khz pcm stream is NOT the same as > the one of a CD type of stream... I can't actually believe that > squeezebox developers "guess" so extremely wrong! > > So, if you have any further clarification, that would be great! My TACT shows the incoming sample rate of the bitstream from my Touch on its display... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84787 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Does Server-side FLAC-PCM conversion DOWNSAMPLE 24bit/96khz
If you have a DAC thats indicates icomming sample and bitrate. it's quite easy to see that you indeed get 24/96 . Also with the right logging turned on the server settings you see in the server wich transcoding parameters that where choosen for the transcoding. it has also been tested to death before, this Q pops up every odd week since forever since SOX transcoding where introduced. They should really change this bitrate indicators to be more correct. But it's given low or no priority as the performance is not affected only the piece of mind of audiophiles ;) It's a cosmetic bug . Not really it is a bug that hit the forum as we have a tread about it every week :-/ My suggestion has always been that this indication is not really needed, just say "transcoded" or similar. Normal users wont care, audiophiles get upset with the current bug, and the OCD's among us can always use the logg functions to verify our settings ;) yes I have done that... and peekat at what my DAC is reporting 96k 88.2k 44.1k or 48k. " -Now, it is generally accepted that converting FLAC-Files on the Server (and not on the touch) delivers better sound quality (like suggested e. g. on http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...x-Touch-Review )- " No it's not generaly aceppted that it is soo, maybe by some audiophile fringe, but it has no basis in reality or science. Same audiphile's places rocks on their components, and spray their cables with mystical iontments from nordost ? If one hear a night and day diff it usually down to use of replay gain tags and volume adjustment setting (many have such tags and the funtion is sometimes on) not realising that the overall volume will be roughly 10dB lower, just turn of volume adjustment and they are the same. As the transcoded stream does not cary these tags replay gain will not be used with WAV so it will ofcourse be a staggering diff as wav is much louder. With all volume adjustment settings off it should be the same. Bit perfectness can be tested with a DTS track encapsulated in normal stereo wav or flac , if one bit is off your HT processor will only output white noise. You can test he whole chain, burn such track on a cd and rip it with your normal settings and it easy to see if something is changing the bitstream somewhere from CD ripper to tags or sbs settings or other things. DTS will only work with the volume at 100% btw as the digital volume also shiftsd the bits, so the "dts bit" will be off and the processor confused. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) PLEASE FIX BUG 112 http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=112 Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84787 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Does Server-side FLAC-PCM conversion DOWNSAMPLE 24bit/96khz
Phil Leigh;602580 Wrote: > > You can IGNORE the displayed bit rates - they are wrong. They are just > a guess. > > 24/96 (FLAC or WAV) streams at 24/96 via a TOUCH and at 24/48 via an > SB3. > Thanks Phil, for your reply! Based on my proper experience with a touch and a pretty "audiophile" chain behind, including an external DAC, I confirm, that converting FLACs to WAV on the server does indeed sound better than streaming the FLACs as such to the Touch - as far as 16 bit / 44 khz FLAC files are concerned. Now, may I just add one question, can you please clarify, where you have that certainty from, that no down-sampling happens? Have you seen inside the squeezebox server software and analyzed it? Or have you somehow measured the stream? Because just 1/2-phrase statements of "developers" without any rationale do not actually sound very convincing to me... (Like e.g. Andy's here: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80563&page=1 ). In particular, the "rationale" there is not convincing at all. To say that the bitrate indicated is only a "guess" is strange. It is pretty easy to guess, that the weight of a 24bit/96khz pcm stream is NOT the same as the one of a CD type of stream... I can't actually believe that squeezebox developers "guess" so extremely wrong! So, if you have any further clarification, that would be great! -- diego diego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40897 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84787 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
