[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
OK guys, can I respectfully suggest that we let this one drop? The last two pages of posts have created only heat, no light. IMO. Ceejay. -- ceejay ceejay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=148 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
95bcwh Wrote: If you don't know how to change your pm, that shows your lack of basic IT skill..you can't be that stupid are you?? :)) 95bcwh;172838 Wrote: When I said you're being disrespectful, I refers to the language you used, the way you laughed at the guy trying to sell Bolder's products. The tone of language that you used to dish Bolder's SB2. And you continued to take cheap shots at Wayne. That's disrespectful. If you cannot understand that, you need to go back to 1st grade and get your mama teach you about respecting people. With posts like these appearing, I second the suggestion to let this thread die. It's quite apparent what's going on here (the emperor has no clothes), and nothing is gained by continuing this. If anyone's aim was to defend the reputation of Bolder mods, congratulations - you've accomplished just the opposite. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
opaqueice;172933 Wrote: With posts like these appearing, I second the suggestion to let this thread die. It's quite apparent what's going on here (the emperor has no clothes), and nothing is gained by continuing this. If anyone's aim was to defend the reputation of Bolder mods, congratulations - you've accomplished just the opposite. Of course, you're in the same camp as Tom, it's easier for you to make that judgement. And you don't know the full story. My aim is not to defend the reputation of the Bolder Mods. My aim is to expose why Tom is behaving like what he has been behavior. I could care less if some people doesn't like Bolder's mod, or hated Bolder Mods. I'm wise enough to know that you can't please everyone in audio. But, for Tom to go to a forum, poked fun at a guy who's selling his products because he has life-threatening illness, which upset many people in that forum, and then come here and bash Bolder's products, taking cheap shots after cheap shots. It is his rudeness that's upseting people, not his disliking of the Bolder's mods. He wouldn't get a free pass.. that's all. I apologise the hijacking this thread. It is my sincere apology to all the members here that you guys have to put up with all these. I also apologise for using some stupid language. It's my mistake and I admitted to it. This is the last post. -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
tomjtx;172836 Wrote: Yes Raj, Wayne contacted me . You did make that sugestion , but I did not contact him. He must have been following the thread and contacted me re: an audition. In fact, he PM'd me twice before I was able to respond. This was not a case of me requesting to audition equipment in order to decide whether or not to buy it. The bottom line here is that I have every right to express my opinion. There is nothing disrespectful about my saying I think the TP is better. I do think it is better. I would not post this opinion on Wayne's own Bolder forum at AC because that would be a breach of etiquette. It is perfectly appropriate to post my opinion on any other forum here or at AC. I think I have said about all I can say on this ( although I'll reserve the right to say more just for the fun of it) :-) Tom, Does this look familiar? Congrats Wayne, As I said in my Slim forum review , you have done a great job with your mods. Anyone who already has you modded SB with Ultimate PS doesn't need to buy a Transporter. Raja -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
95bcwh;172946 Wrote: Of course, you're in the same camp as Tom, it's easier for you to make that judgement. And you don't know the full story. My aim is not to defend the reputation of the Bolder Mods. My aim is to expose why Tom is behaving like what he has been. I couldn't have cared less if some people doesn't like Bolder's mod, or hated Bolder Mods, in fact, I know a number of people who auditioned Bolder's product and didn't care for the sound and we're all good buddies. I'm wise enough to know that you can't please everyone in audio. But, for Tom to go to a forum, poked fun at a guy who's selling his products because he has life-threatening illness, which upset many people in that forum, of course he received some strong criticizm in that forum, so then he come here and started bashing Bolder's products, taking cheap shots after cheap shots. It is his rudeness that's upseting people, not his disliking of the Bolder's mods. He wouldn't get a free pass.. that's all. I apologise the hijacking this thread. It is my sincere apology to all the members here that you guys have to put up with all these. I also apologise for using some stupid language. It's my mistake and I admitted to it. This is the last post. That is such a gross misrepresentation of what occured that it defies reason. Insult is the final refuge of the inarticulate, 95 -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
rajacat;172951 Wrote: Tom, Does this look familiar? Congrats Wayne, As I said in my Slim forum review , you have done a great job with your mods. Anyone who already has you modded SB with Ultimate PS doesn't need to buy a Transporter. Raja Your point being? Of course the Modded SB sounds good, never said it didn't. I said it doesn't sound as good , and it doesn't IMO. Someone who has already spent that much on the Bolder and likes it doesn't need to buy a TP if they are happy with what they have. They would have to sell the Boder at a loss . Why should they do that if they like the Bolder? If someone has plenty of disposable income that such a loss is not important then I would suggest auditioning the TP. Because it does sound better. My advice favoring the TP has been to posters pondering whether to mod an SB or , in some cases buy a TP. IMO the moding route is not cost effective and results is a sound, while good, is not as good as the TP. Again, just my opinion. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
Guys: Do you want this thread locked? -- Mark Lanctot It's like, you know, a New Age religion, but with better treble response. - Jon Heal Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
Mark Lanctot;172986 Wrote: Guys: Do you want this thread locked? I think that's a good idea. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
tomjtx wrote: Mark Lanctot;172986 Wrote: Do you want this thread locked? I think that's a good idea. Any thread that degenerates into name calling and insults has no place in civilized society. Dragging out ancient records to bolster the argument is a sign that soon Goodwin's law will be proven true. Reminds me of the Armenian and Turkish flames on Usenet in the early 90s. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
To set the record straight, tomjtx and I had a bit of a tiff over his comments on this thread http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=35446.0 It appears that his posts were removed, but there are enough quotes from his posts so you should be able to get the general impression. It was after this incident that he started bashing the mods and power supply I do. Before that, he stated he would be happy owning either: (about halfway down the first page in this thread) http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=34774.0 I did make clear to Tom that the power supply I sent him was my prototype that I use personally. As was the modded SB2 I sent him. The production version of the Ultimate PS MKII is in a far nicer case, though in all honesty, it is not as nice as the Transporter. There are at least two professional reviews of the mods online. Tomorrow I am sending a modded SB2 and Ultimate PS MKII to Great Britain where it will be reviewed and compared to the SB+. The Ultimate PS MKII does have a 30 day money back guarantee. No one has yet to return one. -- Wayne1 Wayne1's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
Wayne1;172692 Wrote: To set the record straight, tomjtx and I had a bit of a tiff over his comments on this thread http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=35446.0 It appears that his posts were removed, but there are enough quotes from his posts so you should be able to get the general impression. It was after this incident that he started bashing the mods and power supply I do. Before that, he stated he would be happy owning either: (about halfway down the first page in this thread) http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=34774.0 I did make clear to Tom that the power supply I sent him was my prototype that I use personally. As was the modded SB2 I sent him. The production version of the Ultimate PS MKII is in a far nicer case, though in all honesty, it is not as nice as the Transporter. There are at least two professional reviews of the mods online. Tomorrow I am sending a modded SB2 and Ultimate PS MKII to Great Britain where it will be reviewed and compared to the SB+. The Ultimate PS MKII does have a 30 day money back guarantee. No one has yet to return one. I have not bashed the mods you do. I simply stated that I think the TP is better and it is, IMO. The comments on the AC forum were removed by me, voluntarily, not by a moderator as you so dishonestly imply. The comments were removed by me after I read the rules of the for sale forum at AC which prohibits the criticising of a posters asking price. My remarks were made regarding the price of used gear and tangentially encompassed your mods. I quickly removed the posts and apologized to the forum. The apology was graciously accepted by most. The apology concerned commenting on price. I did mention in those posts that I thought the TP was superior and this has obviously upset you and has led you to behave so immaturely and unprofessionaly. Yes , I could be happy with a modded SB3 and a stock SB3. That doesn't mean I think it is as good as the TP. My remarks in no way invalidate my opinion that the TP is superior to the bolder mods. The proof is in the pudding, I didn't place an order for your product after that review, I kept the TP.that speaks for itself. Indeed , I think the Bolder modded SB at 2,500.00 or so doesn't make economic sense. Why spend more money for a homemade device that doesn't sound as good as the TP? The AC forum is very pro Bolder and I believe the happy with either comments were on your forum...it would be bad form to dis your product on your own forum. That comment was simply a way of politely saying that I can understand that people have different tastes and some may lke a product that I don't like. If you were more of a professional maybe you would have learned to deal more maturely with honest criticism by now. Of course, my opinions on the TP and the Bolder are just that: opinion. People should always listen for themselves to decide. Have a nice day Wayne, Tom -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
tomjtx;172712 Wrote: I have not bashed the mods you do. I simply stated that I think the TP is better and it is, IMO. But the tone of your language imply that people who bought Bolder's Ultimate PS are stupid. If you don't like the Bolder's stuff, so be it, just say you don't like it. There's no need say things like tomjtx;172712 Wrote: it's a complete waste of money to buy that thing who are you to judge how people spend their money? tomjtx;172712 Wrote: Why spend more money for a homemade device that doesn't sound as good as the TP? sorry, you've given yourself too much authority to make such a call. For the past one month I have been having the TP in my home, I have at least 8 people coming to listen to it, comparing the TP analogdigital out, to my digitally modded SB3 (done by Bolder), 100% of my guests prefers the digital out of my modded SB3, because it synergize better with the rest of my system. I then brought the TP and the modded SB3 to friend's house doing the same A/B test, in a group of 10 people, the decision are split, some prefers the TP analog out, some prefers the Modded SB3 digital out, some prefers the TP digital out. So what does that tell you? System synergy, system synergy.. tomjtx;172712 Wrote: The AC forum is very pro Bolder and the happy with either comments were on the Bolder oficial forum...it would be bad form to dis your product on your own forum. The AC forum is very pro Bolder for good reasons, Wayne is a class-act, the service he offers to his customer is second to none. He wrote this message to point out the contradictory statement you made, he not being unprofessional, but you are. Because you first said you're happy with both, and then wrote message after message trying to make people think that it's stupid to buy Wayne's product. -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
Never said anyone was stupid to buy Bolder and I didn't bash anything. I just gave my honest opinion. The 750.00 psu is the least bang for buck IMO. I am entitled to that opinion and I have the right to express that opinion. I don't think it makes sense to pay more for a product I don't think is as good. Your opinion is different. That's OK with me, youre entitled to your opinion and I wouldn't call you stupid for it. I halve always said it's just my opinion and I almost always suggest people listen for themselves. And if you think Wayne is such a great guy, when I did say I liked the TP better he pm'd me saying: (to paraphrase) why dont you go back to the flat earthers at the slim forums, youre not wanted at AC. Then ,he said he wouldn't sell me anything in the future. That is professional behavior? Hm, I simply reminded him I wasn't trying to buy anything nor did I plan to. I don't think his mods represent good value for me , I just don't hear enough improvement to warrant the price.I have a right to that opinion just as you have a right to your contrary opinion. Your opinion doesn't offend me. Too much authority? I haven't given myself any authority, I have simply voiced my opinion , which, BTW, is one of the things a forum is for. I have talked of system synergy plenty of times. I have qualified my comments with in my system to my ears a number of times. I don't always say that because, really, it should be understod that is all that any of of us can say. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
tomjtx;172747 Wrote: I halve always said it's just my opinion and I almost always suggest people listen for themselves. And if you think Wayne is such a great guy, when I did say I liked the TP better he pm'd me saying: (to paraphrase) why dont you go back to the flat earthers at the slim forums, youre not wanted at AC. Then ,he said he wouldn't sell me anything in the future. That is professional behavior? Now we are talking.. you did have some beef with Wayne..no wonder you've been bashing his product lately... LOL... I cannot make any judgement based on you said he said. I have auditioned Wayne products and didn't care for the sound, I let him know about it and I have never received such private message from him. Even in the event that he did send you that message, it's just as unprofessional and classless of you to reveal only the part that makes him look bad, who knows what else have been said in your correspondence with him? -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
95bcwh;172768 Wrote: Now we are talking.. you did have some beef with Wayne..no wonder you've been bashing his product lately... LOL... I cannot make any judgement based on you said he said. I have auditioned Wayne products and didn't care for the sound, I let him know about it and I have never received such private message from him. Even in the event that he did send you that message, it's just as unprofessional and classless of you to reveal only the part that makes him look bad, who knows what else have been said in your correspondence with him? No 95 , I have no beef with Wayne at all. I was bemused by his threat to not sell to me, not offended. I was disappointed in his character that he would disparage the flat earthers on the Slim Forums and petulantly say you have contributed nothing to the Ac forums . But I am not offended, just bemused. I told you my response to Wayne in the above posts: I told him It didn't concern me that he doesn't want to sell to me since I don't have plans to buy and I told him I thought his behavior was immature and unprofessional. There is nothing unprofessional about my behavior, I am not in the audio business. Again, I am not bashing Wayne's product, just giving my opinion how it sounds in my resolving system. My only reaction to Wayne is a bit of surprise, bemusement and amusement at his behavior. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
Wayne1;172692 Wrote: To set the record straight, tomjtx and I had a bit of a tiff over his comments on this thread http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=35446.0 It appears that his posts were removed, but there are enough quotes from his posts so you should be able to get the general impression. It was after this incident that he started bashing the mods and power supply I do. Before that, he stated he would be happy owning either: (about halfway down the first page in this thread) http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=34774.0 I did make clear to Tom that the power supply I sent him was my prototype that I use personally. As was the modded SB2 I sent him. The production version of the Ultimate PS MKII is in a far nicer case, though in all honesty, it is not as nice as the Transporter. There are at least two professional reviews of the mods online. Tomorrow I am sending a modded SB2 and Ultimate PS MKII to Great Britain where it will be reviewed and compared to the SB+. The Ultimate PS MKII does have a 30 day money back guarantee. No one has yet to return one. looks like Wayne is a bit butt hurt, becuase he is not at his stomping grounds, with his group of chearleaders. -- aberdeencomponents aberdeencomponents's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
aberdeencomponents;172803 Wrote: looks like Wayne is a bit butt hurt, becuase he is not at his stomping grounds, with his group of chearleaders. Yes, I would have to agree. BTW several top end designers own the TP and think that modifying the TP is the obvious way to go rather than modifying a 300.00 SB One of my hi-end dealer friends concurs. Doesn't it make more sense to start with a device that, according to Stereophile , comes close to the Ayre (the TP) and mod that with the possibility of surpasing the Ayre rather than modifying the SB and still have it sound inferior to a stock TP at a higher price? A modified TP still has the finished look of the TP rather than the homemade look of the Bolder and would sound better if it at least sounds as good as a stock TP. Oh wait, forgot to say IMO. OK 95? Got your blessing now? -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
Flat earthers? How ironic... -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
tomjtx;172805 Wrote: Yes, I would have to agree. Doesn't it make more sense to start with a device that, according to Stereophile , comes close to the Ayre (the TP) and mod that with the possibility of surpasing the Ayre rather than modifying the SB and still have it sound inferior to a stock TP at a higher price? Actually, in my system, the Bolder SB2 beats the Ayre..see http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=125662#post125662 -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
95bcwh;172819 Wrote: Actually, in my system, the Bolder SB2 beats the Ayre..see http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=125662#post125662 YMMV 95, that is not the same Ayre. You refered to the cx7 I was refering to the cx5 universal player which goes for about 6,000.00 and is the reference cdp for many hi-end reviewers and designers. The ayre you listened to is not of the same quality. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
opaqueice;172815 Wrote: Flat earthers? How ironic... Isn't it? I was really taken aback by the childishness of Wayne's response. I never intended to discuss his PM's until he tried to discredit my opinion of his mods with his misleading post on this thread. But I guess he asked for it. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
tomjtx;172821 Wrote: 95, that is not the same Ayre. You refered to the cx7 I was refering to the cx5 universal player which goes for about 6,000.00 and is the reference cdp for many hi-end reviewers and designers. The ayre you listened to is not of the same quality. I have heard both the CX7 and the CX5 in a dealer store, the difference was hardly audible. So I took the CX7 home. -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
95bcwh;172825 Wrote: I have heard both the CX7 and the CX5 in a dealer store, the difference was hardly audible. So I took the CX7 home. It's the dealer's fault and not mine, if he didn't manage to make the CX5 sound better than CX7. Go to the daler and whack him in one ear with a modded Sb3 and whack him in the other with a TP. If he likes the sound of the TP whack better he is the dealer for me :-) -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
tomjtx;172823 Wrote: Isn't it? I was really taken aback by the childishness of Wayne's response. I never intended to discuss his PM's until he tried to discredit my opinion of his mods with his misleading post on this thread. But I guess he asked for it. Childishness? Wayne did you a favour by loaning you his product, he didn't even ask you to pay anything upfront, and he pay for the cost of shipping it to you. And in return, what did he get? First, when you saw someone selling Bolder's product, you laughed at the guy and said his reselling price was insane, and only stupid people will pay that amount of money. Then you retract your statement, initially you said you could have lived with either the TP or the Bolder SB2, you began to bash the SB2 in post after post. Now, you're trying to destroy his credibility by revealing part of the correspondance between two of you. God knows who's talking crap in that correspondance, you have no way to prove it anyway. It's you said so. So what if you're going to forward me the email thread, anyone can just change the words in the thread. Nobody will know if it's still original. Wayne has loaned his equipments to many people but never did one turn out as disrespectful as you. Of course he is upset. I would be upset too. Who is childish? I think I can make my own judgement. -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
Wayne did not do me a favor loaning me his equipment. He contacted me and asked me to audition his product. I did not ask him. Why would I pay something upfront when he asked me to review his gear. Unfortunately I did pay the return shipping which was not my obligation. He asked me to audition his equipment and post my impressions on the forum, period. Guitar makers send me guitars all the time to evaluate and they are not so cheap that they only pay the shipping one way. I agreed out of curiosity. I never said I prefered his gear. I always said I prefered the TP. No, I cant change a PM. I think you know this and you are obfuscating. You simply don't know what you are talking about. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
tomjtx;172830 Wrote: Wayne did not do me a favor loaning me his equipment. He contacted me and asked me to audition his product. I did not ask him. Why would I pay something upfront when he asked me to review his gear. I did pay the return shipping which was not my obligation. He asked me to audition his equipment and post my impressions on the forum, period. Guitar makers send me guitars all the time to evaluate and they insist on paying shipping both ways. I agreed out of curiosity. I never said I prefered his gear. I always said I preferred the TP. No, I cant change a PM. I think you know this and you are obfuscating. You simply don't know what you are talking about. Are you sure that he contacted you? I'm not sure that I can find the post but I believe it was I that suggested that you contact Wayne to audition the BSB. Was Wayne following the thread and initiated the offer or was it you? I do think that it was going the extra mile and showing faith in his product to ship his personnel unit to you and maybe being exposed to a review by just one person and without having any control over the conditions for the audition. I know that Wayne regularly sends his products off to various shootouts but there are usually a number of people at the event to assure at least some degree of objectivity. Raja -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
rajacat;172832 Wrote: Are you sure that he contacted you? I'm not sure that I can find the post but I believe it was I that suggested that you contact Wayne to audition the BSB. Was Wayne following the thread and initiated the offer or was it you? I do think that it was going the extra mile and showing faith in his product to ship his personnel unit to you and maybe being exposed to a review by just one person and without having any control over the conditions for the audition. I know that Wayne regularly sends his products off to various shootouts but there are usually a number of people at the event to assure at least some degree of objectivity. Raja Yes Raj, Wayne contacted me . You did make that sugestion , but I did not contact him. He must have been following the thread and contacted me re: an audition. In fact, he PM'd me twice before I was able to respond. This was not a case of me requesting to audition equipment in order to decide whether or not to buy it. The bottom line here is that I have every right to express my opinion. There is nothing disrespectful about my saying I think the TP is better. I do think it is better. I would not post this opinion on Wayne's own Bolder forum at AC because that would be a breach of etiquette. It is perfectly appropriate to post my opinion on any other forum here or at AC. I think I have said about all I can say on this ( although I'll reserve the right to say more just for the fun of it) :-) -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
If you don't know how to change your pm, that shows your lack of basic IT skill..you can't be that stupid are you?? :)) tomjtx;172830 Wrote: Wayne did not do me a favor loaning me his equipment. He contacted me and asked me to audition his product. I did not ask him. Why would I pay something upfront when he asked me to review his gear. I did pay the return shipping which was not my obligation. He asked me to audition his equipment and post my impressions on the forum, period. Guitar makers send me guitars all the time to evaluate and they insist on paying shipping both ways. I agreed out of curiosity. I never said I prefered his gear. I always said I prefered the TP. No, I cant change a PM. I think you know this and you are obfuscating. You simply don't know what you are talking about. -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
No one is accusing you for being disrespectful for saying that TP is better than Bolder SB3. When I said you're being disrespectful, I refers to the language you use, the way you laugh at the guy trying to sell Bolder's product. The tone of language that you use to dish Bolder's SB2. And you continue to take cheap shot at Wayne. That's disrespectful. If you cannot understand that, you need to go back to 1st grade and get your mama teach you about respecting people. tomjtx;172836 Wrote: The bottom line here is that I have every right to express my opinion. There is nothing disrespectful about my saying I think the TP is better. I do think it is better. I would not post this opinion on Wayne's own Bolder forum at AC because that would be a breach of etiquette. It is perfectly appropriate to post my opinion on any other forum here or at AC. I think I have said about all I can say on this ( although I'll reserve the right to say more just for the fun of it) :-) -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
95bcwh;172095 Wrote: Why does it matter what his opinion is I thought that a forum is a place for an exchange of views. If opinions don't matter, why bother to join a forum? IMO tomjtx didn't just refine his opinion but almost totally flip flopped so I was just curious about the reversal. -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
rajacat;172317 Wrote: I thought that a forum is a place for an exchange of views. If opinions don't matter, why bother to join a forum? IMO tomjtx didn't just refine his opinion but almost totally flip flopped so I was just curious about the reversal. In interest of full disclosure, I'm now breaking in a Bolder SB with full mods but, who knows, I'm always open to possibilities for better sound and a Transporter could be a future acquisition. Perhaps a modded TP, hah! Audionervosa eh? IMO this forum needs the smilies like over on the AC. Raj, How do you like your BSB? I asume you did the digital+analog mods? If I remember correctly you didn't do the 750.00 PSU but the elpac or something similar in price. To my ears the Ultimate PSU is the least bang for buck of all his mods. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
tomjtx;172350 Wrote: Raj, How do you like your BSB? I asume you did the digital+analog mods? If I remember correctly you didn't do the 750.00 PSU but the elpac or something similar in price. To my ears the Ultimate PSU is the least bang for buck of all his mods. I can't give you an opinion yet on the BSB because the 400+ hours of break-in is at about the 300 hour point. I did do the digital+analog mod because the dig mod wasn't that expensive and maybe a hot new dac might appear such as the Altman which will cause the dig mod option the be the best.I opted for the Platinum upgrade but gave the Bybees a pass. The platinum Sonicap is suppose to be not at its' optimum until 1000 hours pass. I didn't go for the 750 buck power supply but I did acquire a Power One psu ($4.00) and had Wayne mod it for about $100. If I get the urge I might attempt to built a ps using top end components. I feel that $750 would be better spent elsewhere in my modest system. I'm now testing/break-in a refurbished Scott LK -48 tube integrated amp which is confusing the evaluation of the BSB. Raja -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
rajacat;172393 Wrote: I can't give you an opinion yet on the BSB because the 400+ hours of break-in is at about the 300 hour point. I did do the digital+analog mod because the dig mod wasn't that expensive and maybe a hot new dac might appear such as the Altman which will cause the dig mod option the be the best.I opted for the Platinum upgrade but gave the Bybees a pass. The platinum Sonicap is suppose to be not at its' optimum until 1000 hours pass. I didn't go for the 750 buck power supply but I did acquire a Power One psu ($4.00) and had Wayne mod it for about $100. If I get the urge I might attempt to built a ps using top end components. I feel that $750 would be better spent elsewhere in my modest system. I'm now testing/break-in a refurbished Scott LK -48 tube integrated amp which is confusing the evaluation of the BSB. Raja I'd wouldn't be surprised if the power one sounds just as good as the ultimatePSU. The Ultimate just didn't sound better than my elpac my stock SB3. BTW I have an old Macintosh tube tuner that sounds great. Vintage tube gear is a lot of fun, enjoy. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
tomjtx;172404 Wrote: I'd wouldn't be surprised if the power one sounds just as good as the ultimatePSU. The Ultimate just didn't sound better than my elpac my stock SB3. BTW I have an old Macintosh tube tuner that sounds great. Vintage tube gear is a lot of fun, enjoy. I think the the old Scott will be excellent with my system. It has some serious iron and is, I think, a good match for my high efficiency speakers. I'm listening Alison Krauss Lonely Runs Both Ways and she sounds as if she is in the room singing to just me. Raja -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
tomjtx;171591 Wrote: I did a review of a full modded Bolder SB with the 750.00 PSU V the Transporter. The TP was clearly better in every respect and I think it would be a waste of money to go the mod route. The full Bolder mods cost more than the TP and doesn't sound as good IMHO. I also tried a stock elpac into the bolder mods and it sounded the same as the 750.00 psu. The ultimate psu is the largest unecessary outlay IMO. I also have a bolder modded elpac and compared it to the stock elpac , no difference. Your best bang for buck is a stock elpac SB into a good dac. Modding the SB just didn't give good results in my system: Watt/PuppiesRowland amps. The TP IS worth the money and gives far superior results IMO. Of course , all this is subjective opinion, only you can decide. But I would never buy something(especially pricey mods) without a lenghty in-home audition Thanks for posting this info tomjtx. -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
tomjtx;171591 Wrote: I did a review of a full modded Bolder SB with the 750.00 PSU V the Transporter. The TP was clearly better in every respect and I think it would be a waste of money to go the mod route. The full Bolder mods cost more than the TP and doesn't sound as good IMHO. I also tried a stock elpac into the bolder mods and it sounded the same as the 750.00 psu. The ultimate psu is the largest unecessary outlay IMO. I also have a bolder modded elpac and compared it to the stock elpac , no difference. Your best bang for buck is a stock elpac SB into a good dac. Modding the SB just didn't give good results in my system: Watt/PuppiesRowland amps. The TP IS worth the money and gives far superior results IMO. Of course , all this is subjective opinion, only you can decide. But I would never buy something(especially pricey mods) without a lenghty in-home audition Have you changed your opinion? Correct me if I'm mistaken but I believe that you did audition a Bolder Squeezebox and compared it to your Transporter and didn't really come to a definitive conclusion. You said that, in your opinion, it was a toss up and it came down to just a matter of taste. I think that the results of your shootout are no longer available on the forum server but I didn't do an extensive search. Please state the reason(s) for your new point of view. Raja -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
Raja, I didn't change my point of view. I always said I prefered the TP to the Bolder. I did say it was a matter of taste. However I did make a mistake in the way I presented that review. I left a lot to be read in between the lines. I thought most people would be able to see that I clearly think the TP is better. I tempered my opinion of the Bolder ( a kid gloves approach) in order not to offend Bolder advocates. I wish now I had been more straightforward about my disappointment in the Bolder. I don't think it sounds as good as the TP. In addition the psu looks cheaply built. I just don't want to be interpreted as recommending a bolder purchase. It doesn't make sense to me to spend more on the bolder than a TP costs and get inferior sound, looks and build quality. I want to clearly say this is my opinion only. Anyone can audition a TP for 30 days. I wold suggest that anyone wanting the bolder ask for the same 30 day audition. I compared the bolder to the TP for about 2 weeks and I did not send back the TP or buy the bolder. I still think the best mod to the SB is a stock elpac. None of the Bolder , expensive mods came close to that difference in improvement IMHO. It could be that someone else will not prefer the TP. I did, by a wide margin. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
OK, I guess that I just didn't interpret you review accurately. If I could make a suggestion, on future reviews perhaps your should state your real opinion and not sugar coat your views because readers of this forum might be partially basing prospective purchases on your opinion. I do, however, believe that one should consult a wide variety sources before making any audio purchase. I found your comparison interesting because it conflicts drastically with most of what I've read on some other forums especially Audio Circle. Raja -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
Raj, That's why I thank you for giving me the oportunity to clarify. I do think my original post did clearly state that I thought the TP is better. The only thing I tempered were my comments on the Bolder. I didn't think I needed to bash Bolder to make my preference clear. Even though I think the TP is better by a wide margin there are people who don't hold that opinion. That is why I think anyone should audition something before buying. I never imagined someone would interpret my post as a recommendation for Bolder, but I have seen it misinterpreted that way and I am glad to have this chance to clarify. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
Not to split hairs but are you being polite to the TP because your are on the Slim Devices forum? Your 12/19/06 comments on AC seem to contradict much of what you have stated in your post that pretty much bashes the Bolder SB. I don't really know what your true opinion is! Raja -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
rajacat;172049 Wrote: Not to split hairs but are you being polite to the TP because your are on the Slim Devices forum? Your 12/19/06 comments on AC seem to contradict much of what you have stated in your post that pretty much bashes the Bolder SB. I don't really know what your true opinion is! Raja Why does it matter what his opinion is -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
Just to make a quick comment, I tried the Transporter and found it excellent, but I just couldn't justify the price tag. I'm not sure if the following sentence makes any sense; I can't really identify anything that it should have done better, but for $2K it need to be in jaw dropping territory. I ended up with my SB3 feeding a Lavry DA-10. The sound, to me, is equal to the Transporter but roughly half the cost. The Transporter is a lot jazzier looking (though not quite to my taste) and the Lavry rather a plain-jane, but I couldn't justify an extra thousand just for cosmetics. -- mlsstl mlsstl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
rajacat;172049 Wrote: I don't really know what your true opinion is! Raja seems pretty clear to me. he has refined his view (very politely). not sure what the problem is. ta. h. -- Howie Howie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=359 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
95bcwh;172095 Wrote: Why does it matter what his opinion is Exactly, 95. Why does it matter? It shouldn't matter to anyone but myself. I guess anyone's opinion can serve as a possible suggestion what to audition but that is as far as it should go. I think everyone should listen and then decide. The potential problem with modders is that they might not offer an audition and one has to buy on faith. IMO that would be a mistake with the Bolder mods, they just didn't deliver the goods in my system for my ears. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
mlsstl;172122 Wrote: Just to make a quick comment, I tried the Transporter and found it excellent, but I just couldn't justify the price tag. I'm not sure if the following sentence makes any sense; I can't really identify anything that it should have done better, but for $2K it need to be in jaw dropping territory. I ended up with my SB3 feeding a Lavry DA-10. The sound, to me, is equal to the Transporter but roughly half the cost. The Transporter is a lot jazzier looking (though not quite to my taste) and the Lavry rather a plain-jane, but I couldn't justify an extra thousand just for cosmetics. misstl, I agree that the LavrySB is a great combination. But you should compare the prices fairly. Tp is 1,700.00 when you account for the free SB3: 2,000.00 - 300.00 The SB3 + Lavry 1300.00 So there is a 400.00 difference , not 1,000.00 -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
tomjtx;172136 Wrote: So there is a 400.00 difference , not 1,000.00 Lots of people in the position to make such a choice will have to spend $1k more though, because they will likely have already bought an sb3. Being forced to buy another sb3 when they already have one makes it a $1k differenc between upgrading to Lavry vs. Transporter. [I realize ebay exists for unwanted sb3's] -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
Skunk;172143 Wrote: Lots of people in the position to make such a choice will have to spend $1k more though, because they will likely have already bought an sb3. Being forced to buy another sb3 when they already have one makes it a $1k differenc between upgrading to Lavry vs. Transporter. [I realize ebay exists for unwanted sb3's] Actually it makes it 700.00 more not 1,000 Tp 2,000 - Sb3Lavry 1,300 = 700.00 However, a savy consumer who already has an SB3 could bargain with a dealer to reduce the price to 1,700.00 don't you think? -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
tomjtx;172152 Wrote: Actually it makes it 700.00 more not 1,000 Tp 2,000 - Sb3Lavry 1,300 = 700.00 However, a savy consumer who already has an SB3 could bargain with a dealer to reduce the price to 1,700.00 don't you think? You ignored the word upgrade, which is what I meant when I said have already bought an sb3, and upgrading to Lavry vs Transporter. Person + Sb3: can purchase Lavry for 1k or can purchase Transporter for 2k Also, a $300 discount when ordering from Slim Devices directly (if you have an sb3) would give your argument more weight. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
But you should compare the prices fairly. Tp is 1,700.00 when you account for the free SB3: 2,000.00 - 300.00 1. You should be aware that the Transporter no longer comes with a free $300 Squeezebox. So that's $300 off the table and we're up to a $700 difference. 2. I didn't pay $1,000 for the Lavry, so that's another $80. 3. If I would have sold my existing SB3, it wouldn't sell used for $300. Figure maybe $200. So, when all is said and done, I'm about $1,100 versus $2,000. To me, that's a big chunk of change and close enough for me to refer to it has about half. -- mlsstl mlsstl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
Skunk;172158 Wrote: You ignored the word upgrade, which is what I meant when I said have already bought an sb3, and upgrading to Lavry vs Transporter. Person + Sb3: can purchase Lavry for 1k or can purchase Transporter for 2k Also, a $300 discount when ordering from Slim Devices directly (if you have an sb3) would give your argument more weight. I see your point Skunk, there are several ways of comparing prices. Maybe we should consult an economics forum :-) -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
tomjtx wrote: Also, a $300 discount when ordering from Slim Devices directly (if you have an sb3) would give your argument more weight. I see your point Skunk, there are several ways of comparing prices. Maybe we should consult an economics forum :-) So we add the dismal science to the theology of audiophiles? Oh Boy. I like my Transporter a lot, but I'm not sure whether it is really better sounding than my SB - Benchmark DAC-1 combo. Of course, if I sell the DAC-1, I'll have lots more money to squander on CDs. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
What is the situation with this now? I own CD33 and thinking to do the same thing. Modded SB3 + DAC. I have looked this DAC: http://www.diykits.com.hk/da7.2.html Best regards Fkuti -- fkuti fkuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9713 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
I did a review of a full modded Bolder SB with the 750.00 PSU V the Transporter. The TP was clearly better in every respect and I think it would be a waste of money to go the mod route. The full Bolder mods cost more than the TP and doesn't sound as good IMHO. I also tried a stock elpac into the bolder mods and it sounded the same as the 750.00 psu. The ultimate psu is the largest unecessary outlay IMO. I also have a bolder modded elpac and compared it to the stock elpac , no difference. Your best bang for buck is a stock elpac SB into a good dac. Modding the SB just didn't give good results in my system: Watt/PuppiesRowland amps. The TP IS worth the money and gives far superior results IMO. Of course , all this is subjective opinion, only you can decide. But I would never buy something(especially pricey mods) without a lenghty in-home audition -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Onkyo DAC vs. SB3's DAC?
The short answer is to try both connections and trust your ears. The long answer is: Some receivers digitize all the analog signals; this allows the receiver to perform various digital processing. If this is the case, then you have a situation where the SB3 DAC is used to decode to analog, then the Onkyo ADC digitizes the analog signal, and finally the Onkyo DAC decodes to analog again. If this is happening, then the straight digital connection will likely sound much better, even if the Onkyo DAC is not as good as the SB3 DAC. -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30142 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
Thanks everyone, Loftprojection - Great to get advice from someone who also had the CD23 in one form or another. I've now changed my mind from Squeezebox to Sonos, as I like the multi room facilities and the remote, however I don't think the transport is going to be the deciding factor in this, since as long as the digital output is sufficiently good it shouldn't affect the sound of the overall setup. I'm going to go with Sonos + external DAC. I'm interested to know what DAC and interconnect combinations you tried, and what got you closest to the CD23 sound. I'm 100% happy with the sound of the Arcam and wouldn't be changing if I didn't want the extra features of a computerised system - I have no idea what DACs will give me the kind of sound I like, but if you can give me some ideas I'll go and have a listen at a hifi store. Thanks Paul -- bitmonkey bitmonkey's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7054 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
bitmonkey, I was in the same exact (well almost) same boat as you 2 months ago. I had the Arcam CD23T which is almost the same as your CD23 and I wanted to get a Squeezebox but I was not willing to compromise sound quality at all. So I read stuff on multiple forums, people were all telling me no problem the SB will beat your CD23T hands down, no jitter, bit perfect and so on... Well I decided to jump in and got myself a modded RedWineAudio SB2. The SB2 is supposed to be a tiny bit better then SB3 for modding. I went with RWA because I liked the fact that it was battery powered so no more expensive power cable and power conditionning. There are a few who say the Bolder mods are a bit better then the RWA but that is once you add all sorts of features like again power cable, silver bybee and so on. Since I was not convinced at all a SB internal DAC could beat the famous RingDAC we have in our Arcam CDP, I also decided to buy an external DAC at the same time. After several weeks of a/b testing with various configurations of interconnect and digital cables, I sold my CDP. However, its not with the moded SB internal DAC that I was able beats my CDP, it's with the moded SB digital out feeding my external DAC with a good digital cable. So I can't talk about the Bolder mods, but if I was you, I would probably spend just on the digital mod and get the best DAC you can afford that meets your taste. Hope this helps a bit, don't hesitate if you have specific questions on my setup. -- Loftprojection Loftprojection's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5525 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
I would say, either save and wait for the Transporter, or find an external DAC. It sounds like the Transporter has been very well put together, but I'm not sure if you could get to audition it, or if it fits your budget. A DAC however, you could audition, although I found it took a couple of days at home to make a proper judgement. Depending on which DAC you get, there may be little benefit to improving the digital source. After some experimentation, and hunting around, I added a Cyrus DAC-X to my setup, justifying the cost, as I can also run tv and dvd sound through it. With that, differences in digital source are almost indestinguishable. Stock my SB would not better my £270 NAD cd player. I upgraded my SB PSU, but it made little difference. Using one of these seems worth the money though: (US) www.bluejeanscable.com/store/digital-audio/index.htm (UK) www.bluejeanscable.co.uk/store/digital-audio/index.htm I don't have any experience of any other mods. -- bludragon bludragon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1530 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
You could always try the cheaper elpac psu + mods while its around. Why not try listening to the stock sb2 first though, to see if you like it as is? -- davidcotton davidcotton's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4588 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
Or just buy a transporter, for heaven's sakes. Bybee filters...? Please. -- highdudgeon SB3-Nuforce 9.02-Harbeth Monitor 30s/Skylan stands and Quad ESL-988s. Simple and satisfying. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: To DAC or not to DAC
bitmonkey Wrote: However, if the SB's internal DAC is really *THAT* good, I guess I'd be happy using it as an analogue source. Part of this is probably disbelief that a £200 component's DAC can really be better than the ring DAC in my not-so-old £1200 CD player, but if it's true then I guess I ought to be happy I can upgrade for such small cost. I can't say whether it's a better DAC, but my bet is there's a high chance that ripped CDs in lossless (e.g. Flac) format played through the SB will sound better than the £1200 CD player. Why? Not because of the DAC but because the CD player, though digital, has variables that affect the play back because it's reading a stream of data off a CD spinning away with vibrations and all sorts. A CD may not play perfectly or the same every time (arguably). In many ways a CD player is analogue in behaviour. However when ripping a CD using something like EAC to a lossless format you get an exact copy with all the errors ironed out and playing the lossless file is exact every time. Coupled with sending the file through TCP/IP to the SB you don't get jitter issues delivering the file to the DAC, so it's pretty much as perfect a delivery of digital data to the DAC as you can get. If you were to output SP/DIF from the SB you may be introducing jitter again, though the quality of an external DAC might outweigh that. -- deadkenny deadkenny's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6722 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=26548 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
