[aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
Hello all. I am applying to become a TU. My sponsor is Xyne. My name is Kyle Keen, though my handle for irc/bbs/the-last-12-years has been Keenerd. I've been using Arch for a while now, from back when it was still known for refusing to package info files. Before that I did a wee bit of dev work for Puppy Linux. I actually got a bash gui app (yay xdialog) into the ISO but please don't look up the code, it was my first bash script and is rather terrifying. Lately I am a 24 year old freelance electrical engineer and spend my days writing C, my nights writing Python and during the twilight hours some Bash. Right now I host the bugbot in #archlinux-bugs and I've got a few AUR packages(1). Of them, ScrotWM and Slurm probably deserve to be in [community]. I've written several well-liked metatools for Arch including Pacgraph, Pacmatic, and Aurphan. Aurphan is the main reason for trying to apply. Pierre requested a feature to cross check official packages as well as the AUR(2). I was a little shocked to find 35 official orphans on my system. Clearly, we are understaffed. Arch has been nothing short of amazing and I want to do what I can to help keep it going. Other goals include improving the maintenance tools and porting Arch to old or cheap architectures. I also mirrored the AUR for a while and have a nearly complete copy of the old comments from before the Great Table Drop that should be re-inserted. Thanks for your consideration, Kyle http://kmkeen.com 1) http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?SeB=m&K=keenerd&SO=d&SB=v 2) https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=108693
[aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
Xyne wrote: > What? You were his original choice for sponsor? I feel so used and cheap. > > How many more were there, Kyle? Tell me! There was only you. Always only you. Ionut was a giddy bit of foolishness, brought on when Falconindy convinced me to apply. I know not why I sought such a ménage à trois, but cooler heads did prevail and Ionut gracefully turned down my feckless advance. I never forgot your suggestions on the BBS, nor our lofty plans for the AUR, nor the long nights testing pkgbuild2json. I've missed working with you on such grand projects and hoped with my most secret of hearts that this Application would be the first step towards rekindling those old adventures. If you wish to spurn me now, I will accept that lonely fate. But please - let your motive be driven by your dreams for the future and not by petty jealousies of the past. Assiduously yours, Kyle
[aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
Hi guys. I am Kyle Keen (keenerd) and am applying to be a TU, sponsored by Xyne. You might remember me from a past application three months ago (1). Very little has changed since then, though I do have a few more packages (2). I also started up the first AUR mirror (3), which has allowed me to prototype silly things far far away from any place I could do damage. Some smaller new developments have included jshon (4) (a parser I wrote just because greping the AUR's rpc.php results is painful) and wiki-search (5), a bit of bash to make arch-wiki-docs useful as a stand alone resource. One long term goal would be to get the wiki-search script included with the wiki-docs package. A very long term goal would be to polish up some of the features from AUR3 and get them into the real AUR. Short term, Thomas Hatch has expressed a desire to have two of my packages (pacgraph and zeromq) in community. I've been plugging away at getting the remaining bugs (python3, pacman 3.5, manpage) out of Pacgraph to make this a possibility. ScrotWM should probably also be moved, as it is becoming a more popular window manager. I am also eyeing the request for an ABS maintainer, assuming I can figure out the existing issues. Looking forward to contributing more to Arch! -Kyle (1) http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/aur-general/2010-December/012126.html (2) http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?K=keenerd&SeB=m&SB=v&SO=d&PP=75 (3) http://aur3.org (4) http://kmkeen.com/jshon/ (5) https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=114291
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
keenerd wrote: > Hello all. I am applying to become a TU. My sponsor is Xyne. > > My name is Kyle Keen, though my handle for irc/bbs/the-last-12-years > has been Keenerd. I've been using Arch for a while now, from back > when it was still known for refusing to package info files. Before > that I did a wee bit of dev work for Puppy Linux. I actually got a > bash gui app (yay xdialog) into the ISO but please don't look up the > code, it was my first bash script and is rather terrifying. Lately I > am a 24 year old freelance electrical engineer and spend my days > writing C, my nights writing Python and during the twilight hours some > Bash. > > Right now I host the bugbot in #archlinux-bugs and I've got a few AUR > packages(1). Of them, ScrotWM and Slurm probably deserve to be in > [community]. I've written several well-liked metatools for Arch > including Pacgraph, Pacmatic, and Aurphan. Aurphan is the main reason > for trying to apply. > > Pierre requested a feature to cross check official packages as well as > the AUR(2). I was a little shocked to find 35 official orphans on my > system. Clearly, we are understaffed. Arch has been nothing short of > amazing and I want to do what I can to help keep it going. Other > goals include improving the maintenance tools and porting Arch to old > or cheap architectures. I also mirrored the AUR for a while and have > a nearly complete copy of the old comments from before the Great Table > Drop that should be re-inserted. > > Thanks for your consideration, > Kyle > http://kmkeen.com > > 1) http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?SeB=m&K=keenerd&SO=d&SB=v > 2) https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=108693 I confirm that I have agreed to be Kyle's sponsor. Let the discussion period begin!
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On 12/02/2010 08:20 PM, keenerd wrote: Hello all. I am applying to become a TU. My sponsor is Xyne. Hi, Kyle asked me also to sponsor him but Dave did it before him and i want to sponsor only one at a time. Definitely if i wasn't sponsored Dave, i would do it. My name is Kyle Keen, though my handle for irc/bbs/the-last-12-years has been Keenerd. I've been using Arch for a while now, from back when it was still known for refusing to package info files. Before that I did a wee bit of dev work for Puppy Linux. I actually got a bash gui app (yay xdialog) into the ISO but please don't look up the code, it was my first bash script and is rather terrifying. Lately I am a 24 year old freelance electrical engineer and spend my days writing C, my nights writing Python and during the twilight hours some Bash. Right now I host the bugbot in #archlinux-bugs and I've got a few AUR packages(1). Of them, ScrotWM and Slurm probably deserve to be in [community]. I've written several well-liked metatools for Arch including Pacgraph, Pacmatic, and Aurphan. Aurphan is the main reason for trying to apply. Pretty much love the bot. It did improve my tracking skills on bugs and it was a good addition. -- Ionuț
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
Ionuț Bîru wrote: > On 12/02/2010 08:20 PM, keenerd wrote: > > Hello all. I am applying to become a TU. My sponsor is Xyne. > > > > Hi, > Kyle asked me also to sponsor him but Dave did it before him and i want > to sponsor only one at a time. > > Definitely if i wasn't sponsored Dave, i would do it. What? You were his original choice for sponsor? I feel so used and cheap. How many more were there, Kyle? Tell me! Am I just your sloppy seconds? Your cheap rebound sponsor to get you through the lonely application after you were turned down? How can I ever trust you again if I can't see through the lies? Your emails weren't even signed! Now I need to take my inbox down to the clinic. How could I have been so stupid? Curse my ego and how easily flattered it is! Curse the vanity that led me to believe I was your first! Curse my perpetual naïveté! The shame! The hurtful, treacherous shame!
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
keenerd wrote: > Xyne wrote: > > What? You were his original choice for sponsor? I feel so used and cheap. > > > > How many more were there, Kyle? Tell me! > > There was only you. Always only you. Ionut was a giddy bit of > foolishness, brought on when Falconindy convinced me to apply. I know > not why I sought such a ménage à trois, but cooler heads did prevail > and Ionut gracefully turned down my feckless advance. > > I never forgot your suggestions on the BBS, nor our lofty plans for > the AUR, nor the long nights testing pkgbuild2json. I've missed > working with you on such grand projects and hoped with my most secret > of hearts that this Application would be the first step towards > rekindling those old adventures. > > If you wish to spurn me now, I will accept that lonely fate. But > please - let your motive be driven by your dreams for the future and > not by petty jealousies of the past. > > Assiduously yours, > Kyle You speak so highly of dreams, but what hope can there be for one who dreads the embrace of Morpheus and the illusions the he so subtly whispers in the ears of those inclined to accept them? At the end of each night the dawn comes to shatter the tranquility thus bestowed, and once more does the harsh light of truth pierce the wounded heart of the jilted. You would bid me to close my eyes and forget your trespasses, but I am unable to erase my memories and the unpalatable knowledge that they bear. Once we may have dreamed together, dreamed of the grandeur that our wonderful collaboration might one day engender, of the prospects of contribution to the community and the recognition that such would entail. The path lay clear before me and never once did I doubt that your conviction was as mine, never once before this sordid revelation. Perhaps if you had been honest with me, if you had approached me in good faith to redress your crimes against me, perhaps then we might have mended what had been rent, but I fear that the destruction of my innocence has left me incapable of such a leap of faith. How am I to believe that my dreams will not be burned away by the morning sun once more?
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On 12/03/2010 04:22 AM, Xyne wrote: Ionuț Bîru wrote: On 12/02/2010 08:20 PM, keenerd wrote: Hello all. I am applying to become a TU. My sponsor is Xyne. Hi, Kyle asked me also to sponsor him but Dave did it before him and i want to sponsor only one at a time. Definitely if i wasn't sponsored Dave, i would do it. What? You were his original choice for sponsor? I feel so used and cheap. How many more were there, Kyle? Tell me! Am I just your sloppy seconds? Your cheap rebound sponsor to get you through the lonely application after you were turned down? How can I ever trust you again if I can't see through the lies? Your emails weren't even signed! Now I need to take my inbox down to the clinic. How could I have been so stupid? Curse my ego and how easily flattered it is! Curse the vanity that led me to believe I was your first! Curse my perpetual naïveté! The shame! The hurtful, treacherous shame! grow up! :D -- Ionuț
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
How can we vote? :) On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Ionuț Bîru wrote: > On 12/03/2010 04:22 AM, Xyne wrote: > >> Ionuț Bîru wrote: >> >> On 12/02/2010 08:20 PM, keenerd wrote: >>> Hello all. I am applying to become a TU. My sponsor is Xyne. >>> Hi, >>> Kyle asked me also to sponsor him but Dave did it before him and i want >>> to sponsor only one at a time. >>> >>> Definitely if i wasn't sponsored Dave, i would do it. >>> >> >> >> What? You were his original choice for sponsor? I feel so used and cheap. >> >> How many more were there, Kyle? Tell me! Am I just your sloppy seconds? >> Your >> cheap rebound sponsor to get you through the lonely application after you >> were >> turned down? How can I ever trust you again if I can't see through the >> lies? >> >> Your emails weren't even signed! Now I need to take my inbox down to the >> clinic. >> How could I have been so stupid? Curse my ego and how easily flattered it >> is! >> Curse the vanity that led me to believe I was your first! Curse my >> perpetual >> naïveté! >> >> The shame! The hurtful, treacherous shame! >> > > grow up! :D > > -- > Ionuț > -- Blog: http://www.gtklocker.com/
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On 03/12/10 23:35, Konstantinos Karantias wrote: How can we vote? :) No-one who top-posts is allowed a vote.
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Allan McRae wrote: > On 03/12/10 23:35, Konstantinos Karantias wrote: > >> How can we vote? :) >> >> > No-one who top-posts is allowed a vote. > :D Wise decision ! -- Cédric Girard
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 14:57 +0100, Cédric Girard wrote: > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Allan McRae wrote: > > > On 03/12/10 23:35, Konstantinos Karantias wrote: > > > >> How can we vote? :) > >> > >> > > No-one who top-posts is allowed a vote. > > > > :D > > Wise decision ! > I'm bottom-posting, ergo I deserve a vote!
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Friday 03 December 2010 15:03:46 Ng Oon-Ee wrote: > On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 14:57 +0100, Cédric Girard wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Allan McRae wrote: > > > On 03/12/10 23:35, Konstantinos Karantias wrote: > > >> How can we vote? :) > > > > > > No-one who top-posts is allowed a vote. > > : > > :D > > > > Wise decision ! > > I'm bottom-posting, ergo I deserve a vote! Sorry, but ((not p) implies (not q)) does not imply (p implies q)! :-p
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 15:10:37 + Peter Lewis wrote: > On Friday 03 December 2010 15:03:46 Ng Oon-Ee wrote: > > On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 14:57 +0100, Cédric Girard wrote: > > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Allan McRae > > > wrote: > > > > On 03/12/10 23:35, Konstantinos Karantias wrote: > > > >> How can we vote? :) > > > > > > > > No-one who top-posts is allowed a vote. > > > : > > > :D > > > > > > Wise decision ! > > > > I'm bottom-posting, ergo I deserve a vote! > > Sorry, but ((not p) implies (not q)) does not imply (p implies q)! > > :-p Don't say that, if P=NP might get solved some strange guy would take that to misuse this against our rules. -- Jabber: atsut...@freethoughts.de Blog: http://atsutane.freethoughts.de/ Key: 295AFBF4 FP: 39F8 80E5 0E49 A4D1 1341 E8F9 39E4 F17F 295A FBF4 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Xyne wrote: > keenerd wrote: > > > Xyne wrote: > > > What? You were his original choice for sponsor? I feel so used and > cheap. > > > > > > How many more were there, Kyle? Tell me! > > > > There was only you. Always only you. Ionut was a giddy bit of > > foolishness, brought on when Falconindy convinced me to apply. I know > > not why I sought such a ménage à trois, but cooler heads did prevail > > and Ionut gracefully turned down my feckless advance. > > > > I never forgot your suggestions on the BBS, nor our lofty plans for > > the AUR, nor the long nights testing pkgbuild2json. I've missed > > working with you on such grand projects and hoped with my most secret > > of hearts that this Application would be the first step towards > > rekindling those old adventures. > > > > If you wish to spurn me now, I will accept that lonely fate. But > > please - let your motive be driven by your dreams for the future and > > not by petty jealousies of the past. > > > > Assiduously yours, > > Kyle > > You speak so highly of dreams, but what hope can there be for one who > dreads > the embrace of Morpheus and the illusions the he so subtly whispers in the > ears > of those inclined to accept them? At the end of each night the dawn comes > to > shatter the tranquility thus bestowed, and once more does the harsh light > of > truth pierce the wounded heart of the jilted. You would bid me to close my > eyes > and forget your trespasses, but I am unable to erase my memories and the > unpalatable knowledge that they bear. > > Once we may have dreamed together, dreamed of the grandeur that our > wonderful > collaboration might one day engender, of the prospects of contribution to > the > community and the recognition that such would entail. The path lay clear > before > me and never once did I doubt that your conviction was as mine, never once > before this sordid revelation. > > Perhaps if you had been honest with me, if you had approached me in good > faith > to redress your crimes against me, perhaps then we might have mended what > had > been rent, but I fear that the destruction of my innocence has left me > incapable of such a leap of faith. > > How am I to believe that my dreams will not be burned away by the morning > sun > once more? > 1. Xyne that was pretty well written. 2. The both of you have way too much time on your hands. --Kaiting. -- Kiwis and Limes: http://kaitocracy.blogspot.com/
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Thu 02 Dec 2010 13:20 -0500, keenerd wrote: > Hello all. I am applying to become a TU. My sponsor is Xyne. > > My name is Kyle Keen, though my handle for irc/bbs/the-last-12-years > has been Keenerd. I've been using Arch for a while now, from back > when it was still known for refusing to package info files. Before > that I did a wee bit of dev work for Puppy Linux. I actually got a > bash gui app (yay xdialog) into the ISO but please don't look up the > code, it was my first bash script and is rather terrifying. Lately I > am a 24 year old freelance electrical engineer and spend my days > writing C, my nights writing Python and during the twilight hours some > Bash. > > Right now I host the bugbot in #archlinux-bugs and I've got a few AUR > packages(1). Of them, ScrotWM and Slurm probably deserve to be in > [community]. I've written several well-liked metatools for Arch > including Pacgraph, Pacmatic, and Aurphan. Aurphan is the main reason > for trying to apply. > > Pierre requested a feature to cross check official packages as well as > the AUR(2). I was a little shocked to find 35 official orphans on my > system. Clearly, we are understaffed. Arch has been nothing short of > amazing and I want to do what I can to help keep it going. Other > goals include improving the maintenance tools and porting Arch to old > or cheap architectures. I also mirrored the AUR for a while and have > a nearly complete copy of the old comments from before the Great Table > Drop that should be re-inserted. Well, we have most of the comments, they just haven't been merged back into the database. I guess we can determine later if you have any others that might be missing. How exactly did you mirror the AUR? Do you know if there's a lot of this type of thing going on? I wish people would mention this sort of thing. Maybe if there -really- is a need we can make things more efficient and streamlined. Though I still don't see why anyone would really need a whole copy of the AUR, other than for research or something similar. Glad to see you applying for TU. Cheers!
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 10:59 PM, Loui Chang wrote: > Well, we have most of the comments, they just haven't been merged back Oh, cool. Never mind then. > How exactly did you mirror the AUR? Do you know > if there's a lot of this type of thing going on? A 'for' loop? It is not hard. Only takes 30 minutes to get all the tarballs. A few hours for the comments. I dont know of anyone else doing it. I don't do it that often either. > I wish people would mention this sort of thing. I have, on the BBS and IRC. Been doing it for about a year now. > Though I > still don't see why anyone would really need a whole copy of the AUR, > other than for research or something similar. Yeah, about that. Let me get back to you when I figure out how to deal with 20 thousand users. That has been the biggest stumbling block for the past year. > Glad to see you applying for TU. Cheers! Thank you. -Kyle http://kmkeen.com
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
keenerd wrote: > Hello all. I am applying to become a TU. My sponsor is Xyne. > > My name is Kyle Keen, though my handle for irc/bbs/the-last-12-years > has been Keenerd. I've been using Arch for a while now, from back > when it was still known for refusing to package info files. Before > that I did a wee bit of dev work for Puppy Linux. I actually got a > bash gui app (yay xdialog) into the ISO but please don't look up the > code, it was my first bash script and is rather terrifying. Lately I > am a 24 year old freelance electrical engineer and spend my days > writing C, my nights writing Python and during the twilight hours some > Bash. > > Right now I host the bugbot in #archlinux-bugs and I've got a few AUR > packages(1). Of them, ScrotWM and Slurm probably deserve to be in > [community]. I've written several well-liked metatools for Arch > including Pacgraph, Pacmatic, and Aurphan. Aurphan is the main reason > for trying to apply. > > Pierre requested a feature to cross check official packages as well as > the AUR(2). I was a little shocked to find 35 official orphans on my > system. Clearly, we are understaffed. Arch has been nothing short of > amazing and I want to do what I can to help keep it going. Other > goals include improving the maintenance tools and porting Arch to old > or cheap architectures. I also mirrored the AUR for a while and have > a nearly complete copy of the old comments from before the Great Table > Drop that should be re-inserted. > > Thanks for your consideration, > Kyle > http://kmkeen.com > > 1) http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?SeB=m&K=keenerd&SO=d&SB=v > 2) https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=108693 The discussion period is nearly over but I have something that I want to bring up after reading though the nearly 100 new messages on aur-general. keenerd wrote: > If no one can think of a better way to deal with the nonconforming > packages, I'll write a bot to post insulting comments. Personally, I > really like this solution. The AUR has always had a wild west > frontier / insane asylum feel to it. The less regulation, the better > it works. But a few well placed suggestions could help make the two > thousand maintainers do a better job. Heiko Baums wrote: > Am Mon, 6 Dec 2010 16:53:08 -0500 > schrieb keenerd : > > > > find /var/abs -name *.png | wc -l == 60 > > > > Of +4800 packages, that is 1.2%. The AUR is more than twice that > > rate. But while we are running the numbers to determine best > > practices. > > This would be about 48+ e-mails to users if your bot continues > writing those AUR comments. That's too many. > > As I said before, please, don't do this. You can, of course, let such a > bot help you finding "bad" packages. But you have to verify its results > personally, before you write such AUR comments. > > Such automations are usually pretty unreliable except they are written > very thoughtfully and are tested a lot. > > And regarding the 1.2%... Don't trust any statistics you did not even > fake. > > Heiko I'm a bit bothered by the way that you've handled this. You proceeded to write and launch the bot based on your personal interpretation of the rules without waiting for any definitive conclusion from the ongoing discussion about them. Comments aren't that big a deal, even if there will be many confused maintainers, but with TU status on the AUR you could do much more with disastrous consequences. Considering this and the still-ongoing discussion about the AUR guidelines, do you agree that it would be prudent to be more patient in the future and wait until we've come to a conclusion before going ahead with something like this again?
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 11:16, Xyne wrote: > keenerd wrote: > >> Hello all. I am applying to become a TU. My sponsor is Xyne. >> >> My name is Kyle Keen, though my handle for irc/bbs/the-last-12-years >> has been Keenerd. I've been using Arch for a while now, from back >> when it was still known for refusing to package info files. Before >> that I did a wee bit of dev work for Puppy Linux. I actually got a >> bash gui app (yay xdialog) into the ISO but please don't look up the >> code, it was my first bash script and is rather terrifying. Lately I >> am a 24 year old freelance electrical engineer and spend my days >> writing C, my nights writing Python and during the twilight hours some >> Bash. >> >> Right now I host the bugbot in #archlinux-bugs and I've got a few AUR >> packages(1). Of them, ScrotWM and Slurm probably deserve to be in >> [community]. I've written several well-liked metatools for Arch >> including Pacgraph, Pacmatic, and Aurphan. Aurphan is the main reason >> for trying to apply. >> >> Pierre requested a feature to cross check official packages as well as >> the AUR(2). I was a little shocked to find 35 official orphans on my >> system. Clearly, we are understaffed. Arch has been nothing short of >> amazing and I want to do what I can to help keep it going. Other >> goals include improving the maintenance tools and porting Arch to old >> or cheap architectures. I also mirrored the AUR for a while and have >> a nearly complete copy of the old comments from before the Great Table >> Drop that should be re-inserted. >> >> Thanks for your consideration, >> Kyle >> http://kmkeen.com >> >> 1) http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?SeB=m&K=keenerd&SO=d&SB=v >> 2) https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=108693 > > > The discussion period is nearly over but I have something that I want to bring > up after reading though the nearly 100 new messages on aur-general. > > keenerd wrote: > >> If no one can think of a better way to deal with the nonconforming >> packages, I'll write a bot to post insulting comments. Personally, I >> really like this solution. The AUR has always had a wild west >> frontier / insane asylum feel to it. The less regulation, the better >> it works. But a few well placed suggestions could help make the two >> thousand maintainers do a better job. > > Heiko Baums wrote: > >> Am Mon, 6 Dec 2010 16:53:08 -0500 >> schrieb keenerd : >> >> > > find /var/abs -name *.png | wc -l == 60 >> > >> > Of +4800 packages, that is 1.2%. The AUR is more than twice that >> > rate. But while we are running the numbers to determine best >> > practices. >> >> This would be about 48+ e-mails to users if your bot continues >> writing those AUR comments. That's too many. >> >> As I said before, please, don't do this. You can, of course, let such a >> bot help you finding "bad" packages. But you have to verify its results >> personally, before you write such AUR comments. >> >> Such automations are usually pretty unreliable except they are written >> very thoughtfully and are tested a lot. >> >> And regarding the 1.2%... Don't trust any statistics you did not even >> fake. >> >> Heiko > > I'm a bit bothered by the way that you've handled this. You proceeded to write > and launch the bot based on your personal interpretation of the rules without > waiting for any definitive conclusion from the ongoing discussion about them. > > Comments aren't that big a deal, even if there will be many confused > maintainers, but with TU status on the AUR you could do much more with > disastrous consequences. > > Considering this and the still-ongoing discussion about the AUR guidelines, do > you agree that it would be prudent to be more patient in the future and wait > until we've come to a conclusion before going ahead with something like this > again? > Wow he actually launched that bot? I thought it was a joke. It seemed so stupid that I didn't think anyone would take it seriously. That definitely opens up some other perspectives on the application...
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On 12/07/2010 06:19 PM, Daenyth Blank wrote: Right now I host the bugbot in #archlinux-bugs and I've got a few AUR packages(1). Of them, ScrotWM and Slurm probably deserve to be in [community]. I've written several well-liked metatools for Arch including Pacgraph, Pacmatic, and Aurphan. Aurphan is the main reason for trying to apply. Pierre requested a feature to cross check official packages as well as the AUR(2). I was a little shocked to find 35 official orphans on my system. Clearly, we are understaffed. Arch has been nothing short of amazing and I want to do what I can to help keep it going. Other goals include improving the maintenance tools and porting Arch to old or cheap architectures. I also mirrored the AUR for a while and have a nearly complete copy of the old comments from before the Great Table Drop that should be re-inserted. Thanks for your consideration, Kyle http://kmkeen.com 1) http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?SeB=m&K=keenerd&SO=d&SB=v 2) https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=108693 The discussion period is nearly over but I have something that I want to bring up after reading though the nearly 100 new messages on aur-general. keenerd wrote: If no one can think of a better way to deal with the nonconforming packages, I'll write a bot to post insulting comments. Personally, I really like this solution. The AUR has always had a wild west frontier / insane asylum feel to it. The less regulation, the better it works. But a few well placed suggestions could help make the two thousand maintainers do a better job. Heiko Baums wrote: Am Mon, 6 Dec 2010 16:53:08 -0500 schrieb keenerd: find /var/abs -name *.png | wc -l == 60 Of +4800 packages, that is 1.2%. The AUR is more than twice that rate. But while we are running the numbers to determine best practices. This would be about 48+ e-mails to users if your bot continues writing those AUR comments. That's too many. As I said before, please, don't do this. You can, of course, let such a bot help you finding "bad" packages. But you have to verify its results personally, before you write such AUR comments. Such automations are usually pretty unreliable except they are written very thoughtfully and are tested a lot. And regarding the 1.2%... Don't trust any statistics you did not even fake. Heiko I'm a bit bothered by the way that you've handled this. You proceeded to write and launch the bot based on your personal interpretation of the rules without waiting for any definitive conclusion from the ongoing discussion about them. Comments aren't that big a deal, even if there will be many confused maintainers, but with TU status on the AUR you could do much more with disastrous consequences. Considering this and the still-ongoing discussion about the AUR guidelines, do you agree that it would be prudent to be more patient in the future and wait until we've come to a conclusion before going ahead with something like this again? Wow he actually launched that bot? I thought it was a joke. It seemed so stupid that I didn't think anyone would take it seriously. That definitely opens up some other perspectives on the application... dude, he said it will write a bot for aur. RIGHT NOW he has a bot for bugtracker and it doesn't send any emails, just write some text in the channel. nothing more, nothing less -- Ionuț
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 11:36, Ionuț Bîru wrote: > dude, he said it will write a bot for aur. RIGHT NOW he has a bot for > bugtracker and it doesn't send any emails, just write some text in the > channel. nothing more, nothing less > > -- > Ionuț > Ah, I must have misread something.
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On 12/07/2010 05:36 PM, Ionuț Bîru wrote: On 12/07/2010 06:19 PM, Daenyth Blank wrote: Wow he actually launched that bot? I thought it was a joke. It seemed so stupid that I didn't think anyone would take it seriously. That definitely opens up some other perspectives on the application... dude, he said it will write a bot for aur. RIGHT NOW he has a bot for bugtracker and it doesn't send any emails, just write some text in the channel. nothing more, nothing less I think he actually launched the AUR-bot: http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=8388 (first comment) -- freenode/pyropeter ETAOIN SHRDLU
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
PyroPeter wrote: > On 12/07/2010 05:36 PM, Ionuț Bîru wrote: > > On 12/07/2010 06:19 PM, Daenyth Blank wrote: > >> Wow he actually launched that bot? I thought it was a joke. It seemed > >> so stupid that I didn't think anyone would take it seriously. That > >> definitely opens up some other perspectives on the application... > > > > dude, he said it will write a bot for aur. RIGHT NOW he has a bot for > > bugtracker and it doesn't send any emails, just write some text in the > > channel. nothing more, nothing less > > I think he actually launched the AUR-bot: > http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=8388 > (first comment) Some AUR users have posted on the list in response to the bot. I can't find the others right now but here's one: http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/aur-general/2010-December/012330.html Just to be clear, the bot does not insult anyone and it does state the reason for the comment rather than some ambiguous "ur pkg is full of fail, lol" comment. My issue is that I consider the launch premature and overzealous and I'm seeking reassurance that in the future ongoing discussions will be considered before action is taken.
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 18:14:01 +0100 Xyne wrote: > PyroPeter wrote: > > > On 12/07/2010 05:36 PM, Ionuț Bîru wrote: > > > On 12/07/2010 06:19 PM, Daenyth Blank wrote: > > >> Wow he actually launched that bot? I thought it was a joke. It > > >> seemed so stupid that I didn't think anyone would take it > > >> seriously. That definitely opens up some other perspectives on > > >> the application... > > > > > > dude, he said it will write a bot for aur. RIGHT NOW he has a bot > > > for bugtracker and it doesn't send any emails, just write some > > > text in the channel. nothing more, nothing less > > > > I think he actually launched the AUR-bot: > > http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=8388 > > (first comment) > > > Some AUR users have posted on the list in response to the bot. I > can't find the others right now but here's one: > > http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/aur-general/2010-December/012330.html > > Just to be clear, the bot does not insult anyone and it does state > the reason for the comment rather than some ambiguous "ur pkg is full > of fail, lol" comment. > > My issue is that I consider the launch premature and overzealous and > I'm seeking reassurance that in the future ongoing discussions will > be considered before action is taken. Still because of that quickshot I'll change my previous expectation to vote. Even a reassurance won't change that for this vote, probably for a future one but not for this. Sorry but once a application is passed the applicant has directly to show a responsible behaviour, TU stands for Trusted User not Trolling User. This is not meant as a direct insult, don't misinterprete it. Atsutane -- Jabber: atsut...@freethoughts.de Blog: http://atsutane.freethoughts.de/ Key: 295AFBF4 FP: 39F8 80E5 0E49 A4D1 1341 E8F9 39E4 F17F 295A FBF4 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
Thorsten Töpper wrote: > > Some AUR users have posted on the list in response to the bot. I > > can't find the others right now but here's one: > > > > http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/aur-general/2010-December/012330.html > > > > Just to be clear, the bot does not insult anyone and it does state > > the reason for the comment rather than some ambiguous "ur pkg is full > > of fail, lol" comment. > > > > My issue is that I consider the launch premature and overzealous and > > I'm seeking reassurance that in the future ongoing discussions will > > be considered before action is taken. > > Still because of that quickshot I'll change my previous expectation to > vote. > > Even a reassurance won't change that for this vote, probably for a > future one but not for this. > > Sorry but once a application is passed the applicant has directly to > show a responsible behaviour, TU stands for Trusted User not Trolling > User. > This is not meant as a direct insult, don't misinterprete it. Regardless of how it was meant, "Trolling User" was inappropriate imo. The intentions were good. It's the rashness that's the problem as far as I'm concerned. Realizing that it was a bad idea and that there are better ways to do things is enough.
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On 8 December 2010 02:56, Xyne wrote: > Thorsten Töpper wrote: > >> > Some AUR users have posted on the list in response to the bot. I >> > can't find the others right now but here's one: >> > >> > http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/aur-general/2010-December/012330.html >> > >> > Just to be clear, the bot does not insult anyone and it does state >> > the reason for the comment rather than some ambiguous "ur pkg is full >> > of fail, lol" comment. >> > >> > My issue is that I consider the launch premature and overzealous and >> > I'm seeking reassurance that in the future ongoing discussions will >> > be considered before action is taken. >> >> Still because of that quickshot I'll change my previous expectation to >> vote. >> >> Even a reassurance won't change that for this vote, probably for a >> future one but not for this. >> >> Sorry but once a application is passed the applicant has directly to >> show a responsible behaviour, TU stands for Trusted User not Trolling >> User. >> This is not meant as a direct insult, don't misinterprete it. > > Regardless of how it was meant, "Trolling User" was inappropriate imo. The > intentions were good. It's the rashness that's the problem as far as I'm > concerned. Realizing that it was a bad idea and that there are better ways to > do things is enough. I don't see this as a real problem to this application. He is competent enough and aside from the recent undertakings his attitude is totally fine, and I'm sure his bots will be a good tool internally. Making rash decisions can be solved by advice and warnings.
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 19:56:12 +0100 Xyne wrote: > Thorsten Töpper wrote: > > > > Still because of that quickshot I'll change my previous expectation > > to vote. > > > > Even a reassurance won't change that for this vote, probably for a > > future one but not for this. > > > > Sorry but once a application is passed the applicant has directly to > > show a responsible behaviour, TU stands for Trusted User not > > Trolling User. > > This is not meant as a direct insult, don't misinterprete it. > > Regardless of how it was meant, "Trolling User" was inappropriate > imo. The intentions were good. It's the rashness that's the problem > as far as I'm concerned. Realizing that it was a bad idea and that > there are better ways to do things is enough. You're right, that was far too harsh, pardon me for this formulation. @Kyle: Starting a discussion about the tarballs was a good idea, what followed was wrong, so I'm stuck between an Abstain and a No and I guess some other TUs are also thinking about how they should handle this. The discussion is nearly finished, still a statement from your side might help to decide, which of these two options seems right, even after the end of this phase. -- Jabber: atsut...@freethoughts.de Blog: http://atsutane.freethoughts.de/ Key: 295AFBF4 FP: 39F8 80E5 0E49 A4D1 1341 E8F9 39E4 F17F 295A FBF4 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Xyne wrote: > I'm a bit bothered by the way that you've handled this. You proceeded to > write > and launch the bot based on your personal interpretation of the rules > without > waiting for any definitive conclusion from the ongoing discussion about > them. > Kyle I'm really hoping that what I said last night on IRC did not make you think it would be a good idea to do this. I did not make a clear distinction between execution of established policy which you may go ahead and do whenever and in just about whatever way you want; and a decision of policy which should come from the group as a whole and may or may not involve a vote. Regardless I think the mistake is minor in this instance; I'm going to chalk it up to enthusiasm. --Kaiting. -- Kiwis and Limes: http://kaitocracy.blogspot.com/
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On 7 December 2010 19:10, Thorsten Töpper wrote: > On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 18:14:01 +0100 Xyne wrote: > > Still because of that quickshot I'll change my previous expectation to > vote. > > Even a reassurance won't change that for this vote, probably for a > future one but not for this. > > Sorry but once a application is passed the applicant has directly to > show a responsible behaviour, TU stands for Trusted User not Trolling > User. > This is not meant as a direct insult, don't misinterprete it. > > Atsutane > > -- > Jabber: atsut...@freethoughts.de Blog: http://atsutane.freethoughts.de/ > Key: 295AFBF4 FP: 39F8 80E5 0E49 A4D1 1341 E8F9 39E4 F17F 295A FBF4 > I have the same feelings. When I first read Kyle's application I thought it's great to have someone like him on board and he would get my Yes for a 100%. Kyle is certainly doing a lot of good for Arch Linux and I'm sure he wrote the bot with good intentions. But launching the bot without discussion wasn't very responsible. Now I'm somewhere in between. On one hand I think Kyle would be a great addition to the team, especially given his enthusiasm. On the other hand I'm a bit scared about such impulsive behavior as the launching of the bot was.
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Thorsten Töpper wrote: > ... I'm stuck between an Abstain and a No and I guess some other TUs are > also thinking about how they should handle this... You can stop being stuck; with the current bylaws Abstain and No are functionally identical. --Kaiting. -- Kiwis and Limes: http://kaitocracy.blogspot.com/
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
After much heavy thought, I withdraw my application. My apologies for the trouble. -Kyle
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On 8 December 2010 05:44, keenerd wrote: > After much heavy thought, I withdraw my application. My apologies for > the trouble. You shouldn't let other issues hinder your application. Reconsider withdrawing, because it would disappoint your sponsor. You were asked a very simple question: "Considering this and the still-ongoing discussion about the AUR guidelines, do you agree that it would be prudent to be more patient in the future and wait until we've come to a conclusion before going ahead with something like this again?" And that's about it. Maybe some took the bot issue a little too seriously, but we would still vote. Personally, I believe you will be of help to the team :)
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Tue 07 Dec 2010 16:44 -0500, keenerd wrote: > After much heavy thought, I withdraw my application. My apologies for > the trouble. N. I was interested in your analysis of the AUR and I think we could make good use of it. I kind of wish I could spam users about their bad packages. I have sent a few emails manually. I guess the real issue is that if there is any action that has a widespread effect on the AUR we should always decide what should be done as a group of TUs. That's one reason that I made Jakob create a proposal for the last mass AUR cleanup. I could have easily applied the changes behind the scenes otherwise.
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 05:57:34 +0800 Ray Rashif wrote: > On 8 December 2010 05:44, keenerd wrote: > > After much heavy thought, I withdraw my application. My apologies > > for the trouble. > > You shouldn't let other issues hinder your application. Reconsider > withdrawing, because it would disappoint your sponsor. You were asked > a very simple question: > > "Considering this and the still-ongoing discussion about the AUR > guidelines, do you agree that it would be prudent to be more patient > in the future and wait until we've come to a conclusion before going > ahead with something like this again?" > > And that's about it. Maybe some took the bot issue a little too > seriously, but we would still vote. Personally, I believe you will be > of help to the team :) Don't withdraw, you made a good impression and as long as you answer this question of Xyne I don't think there are people that vote against you as long as you assure to keep waiting till something is decided in the future. An Abstain is not a No, it is to reach quorum and I'm still mostly tending to that, as Lukas said you made a very good impression and I think if we two had real contact in the past, I still would vote clearly for you. I think this application will pass, I guess there are enough of us who really know you and vote for a Yes as they really know your person and don't just read some forum posts as I did. So don't withdraw, just make a clear assurance to keep low till something is really discussed and you'll pass, as long as there are more Yes votes than No votes and like I said there won't be many of the latter as you really left a good impression. An Abstain is to reach Quorum it currently has no influence on wether a vote passes or not. -- Jabber: atsut...@freethoughts.de Blog: http://atsutane.freethoughts.de/ Key: 295AFBF4 FP: 39F8 80E5 0E49 A4D1 1341 E8F9 39E4 F17F 295A FBF4 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Tuesday 07 December 2010 21:44:46 keenerd wrote: > After much heavy thought, I withdraw my application. My apologies for > the trouble. I agree with the others - please reconsider withdrawing. I believe that we could certainly do with someone with your keenness and skills on the team. I think that if we can all have a mature discussion about this and learn from it, then I'd welcome you on board. This has raised an interesting point though - perhaps we should also agree some sort of guidance for large actions that are likely to affect lots of users (like with this bot), that requrie a proposal and a vote etc. Pete.
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On 7 December 2010 22:44, keenerd wrote: > After much heavy thought, I withdraw my application. My apologies for > the trouble. > > -Kyle > Hello, Kyle, I'd say that you just showed that you understand what you did wrong. But please, do not withdraw your application. I think there is still a high chance that your application will pass. Lukas
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
keenerd wrote: > After much heavy thought, I withdraw my application. My apologies for > the trouble. > > -Kyle I agree with the others who feel you should reconsider your withdrawal. I also want to explain myself. I was hesitant to voice my concerns about the bot, especially as your sponsor, because I understand how it could be perceived as a betrayal of sorts. I understood that it would evoke negative reactions among some TUs and that it might cost you some votes. At the same time, I genuinely felt (and still do) that it was something that needed to be addressed and that I would not be doing my job as a TU had I not brought it up. I agreed to sponsor you because I believe that your skills and motivation can enrich the team and benefit the community and I still stand by that belief. All I wanted was for you to address the concerns and to assure those among us who shared them that you would be less impetuous as a TU, and I still hope that you will. Technical skills are only part of the requirement for becoming a TU. Being able to communicate meaningfully with other TUs and work as a team is just as important. In this case, showing that you can accept and address criticism would make you a stronger candidate, in my opinion. So again, please reconsider. Regards, Xyne p.s. I really do feel a bit bad about this.
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Ray Rashif wrote: > You shouldn't let other issues hinder your application. Reconsider > withdrawing, because it would disappoint your sponsor. You were asked > a very simple question: > > "Considering this and the still-ongoing discussion about the AUR guidelines, > do > you agree that it would be prudent to be more patient in the future and wait > until we've come to a conclusion before going ahead with something like this > again?" That depends. Here are three examples were it is pretty cut and dry: Using the good name of the TUs, using magic tu.php powers, or using information only TUs have access to. Before going anywhere near that stuff I'd get permission in triplicate. In other words, great responsibilities are attached to even the least of *TU* resources. However, an AUR scanning/reporting bot could be made and operated by any *non-TU* in less than two hundred lines of any scripting language. I'll agree the bot was poorly executed. The trigger thresholds were initially set a bit too low. Less than 1/3 through the scan I greatly increased the triggers (ignore improper nesting, ignore less than four PNGs/GIFs/JPGs). To act as if this is a black and white issue draws a parallel with a very unethical Non-Compete agreement: "While you are a programmer for FOO Corp, you are not allowed to write/release software outside of work." I have never and would never take employment with such a company. (Conversely, I have never worked on FOSS stuff for fun while on the clock.) What rights, that we have as ordinary users, are given up even outside of the TU sphere? Retracting my withdrawal would be cheating. I will wait at least three months, as a fair interpretation of the Bylaws requires. By the way, this ML has very strict and undocumented rules regarding attachments. I do all sorts of work to get my charts and graphs the under the 100KB limit, only to find that all PNGs are scrubbed out. The irony. Check my site later for those. -Kyle http://kmkeen.com
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 1:15 PM, keenerd wrote: > I'll agree the bot was poorly executed. The trigger thresholds were > initially set a bit too low. Less than 1/3 through the scan I greatly > increased the triggers (ignore improper nesting, ignore less than four > PNGs/GIFs/JPGs). > > To act as if this is a black and white issue draws a parallel with a > very unethical Non-Compete agreement: "While you are a programmer for > FOO Corp, you are not allowed to write/release software outside of > work." I have never and would never take employment with such a > company. (Conversely, I have never worked on FOSS stuff for fun while > on the clock.) What rights, that we have as ordinary users, are given > up even outside of the TU sphere? > > Retracting my withdrawal would be cheating. I will wait at least > three months, as a fair interpretation of the Bylaws requires. > I don't think the three month rule applies in this case. Your application was not rejected by Standard Voting Procedure. Admittedly how to proceed in this case is not altogether clear per the by-laws but by my interpretation if your application did not reach the voting period, then if would follow the same procedure as any other motion that did not reach the voting period. A good example is the slew of by-laws amendments flying around. Each version is slightly different from the previous one, and only one will ever reach the voting period; the discarded ones are effectively 'withdrawn'. It would be ridiculous to require the edited version of each proposal to sit tabled for a minimum of three months: we would never get any work done. I believe Thorsten was too harsh in his mail regarding your bot, and I agree with your assessment that your actions were well within your rights as a normal user. I think what all of us are concerned about is that it may appear as if you have spoken for all of us regarding a policy matter that in actuality has not been decided. In all honesty I don't think it was a huge deal. You are very excited about Arch Linux; potentially you're about to become a Trusted User; people get overzealous and things like this happen. Most of the comments that your bot left were not controversial at all. The important thing is to learn that you will be working as part of a team, and what you say or do affects how that team is perceived. Ideally I would like to see your resubmit your application immediately because I think that your skills and enthusiasm would make a great addition to the team. --Kaiting. -- Kiwis and Limes: http://kaitocracy.blogspot.com/
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On 9 December 2010 02:15, keenerd wrote: > However, an AUR scanning/reporting bot could be made and operated by > any *non-TU* in less than two hundred lines of any scripting language. In fact, that's exactly what I'm trying to say. That issue is you doing something as an Arch Linux user, and that's all. An idea you tested. Some people liked it, some people didn't. That is why I believe it should have nothing to do with your TU application. I didn't even expect anyone to bring that up here, but Xyne did what he felt was right. I can see that you're demotivated by the (bot) feedback. Anyway, it's up to you and your sponsor now :) Three months later or not, you're definitely TU material.
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
keenerd wrote: > On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Ray Rashif wrote: > > You shouldn't let other issues hinder your application. Reconsider > > withdrawing, because it would disappoint your sponsor. You were asked > > a very simple question: > > > > "Considering this and the still-ongoing discussion about the AUR > > guidelines, do > > you agree that it would be prudent to be more patient in the future and wait > > until we've come to a conclusion before going ahead with something like this > > again?" > > That depends. > > Here are three examples were it is pretty cut and dry: Using the good > name of the TUs, using magic tu.php powers, or using information only > TUs have access to. Before going anywhere near that stuff I'd get > permission in triplicate. In other words, great responsibilities are > attached to even the least of *TU* resources. > > However, an AUR scanning/reporting bot could be made and operated by > any *non-TU* in less than two hundred lines of any scripting language. > > I'll agree the bot was poorly executed. The trigger thresholds were > initially set a bit too low. Less than 1/3 through the scan I greatly > increased the triggers (ignore improper nesting, ignore less than four > PNGs/GIFs/JPGs). > > To act as if this is a black and white issue draws a parallel with a > very unethical Non-Compete agreement: "While you are a programmer for > FOO Corp, you are not allowed to write/release software outside of > work." I have never and would never take employment with such a > company. (Conversely, I have never worked on FOSS stuff for fun while > on the clock.) What rights, that we have as ordinary users, are given > up even outside of the TU sphere? > > Retracting my withdrawal would be cheating. I will wait at least > three months, as a fair interpretation of the Bylaws requires. > > By the way, this ML has very strict and undocumented rules regarding > attachments. I do all sorts of work to get my charts and graphs the > under the 100KB limit, only to find that all PNGs are scrubbed out. > The irony. Check my site later for those. I never said that it wasn't within your rights to launch the bot. It isn't even about the bot itself. The issue as I see it is that you presented the idea on this list for discussion but didn't care to follow that discussion until a conclusion was reached. Some TUs objected to the bot and I think you should have taken those objections into consideration (e.g. that icons should be tolerated, etc). The TUs exist to manage the AUR and their collective interpretation of the rules should carry weight. Instead, you decided that your own interpretation of the AUR guidelines was correct despite those objections and went ahead on your own. As a result, many AUR users may now be confused regarding the rules of the AUR. Of course that's within your rights, but it's not something that a prospective TU should do. Using your wild west analogy of the AUR, it shows that you see yourself as the lone gunman who lives by his own rules. That doesn't work well in a team setting. Again, the bot itself isn't the issue for me. The attitude is, or at least I think it could be. All I asked for was some indication that you wouldn't skip discussions in the future and ride off on your own, but I understand that my message and the comments it evoked were demotivational. It's unfortunate that you took it the way that you did rather than simply allay the concerns. As for your FOO Corp analogy, you weren't being asked to sign a non-compete agreement. You presented yourself as an applicant to FOO Corp. You also noticed that FOO Corp has a Facebook page and that many of its clients have posted various comments there. FOO Corp presents itself as a "family-oriented business" and you felt that there were many comments on the Facebook page that were not in line with this image. You therefore wrote a bot that could send messages to those FOO Corp clients to inform them that their comments were inappropriate. You presented your idea to the people at FOO Corp. Some of them agreed with you about which comments were inappropriate and some disagreed. You ignored those who disagreed and launched your bot before the people at FOO Corp had even reached any internal conclusion about how "family-oriented business" should be interpreted and used to evaluate the appropriateness of the Facebook comments. Could someone outside of FOO Corp write such a bot. Obviously. Is it within your rights to do so? Yes. Is it understandable that it would raise some eyebrows while considering your application? I think it is. Even if you do so on your own time, FOO Corp should be worried if you have a different interpretation of FOO Corp's policies and act on that interpretation in a way that directly affects FOO Corp's clients, especially if you show that you have no interest in determining official policy first. The intention is clearly good but the wrong interpretation of the desired outcome
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 2:49 AM, Xyne wrote: > The issue as I see it is that you presented the idea on this list for > discussion but didn't care to follow that discussion until a conclusion was > reached. It seemed discussion had petered out. > Some TUs objected to the bot and I think you should have taken those > objections into consideration (e.g. that icons should be tolerated, etc). In the days before the launch there were seven replies. Of these, three were positive and four were neutral. Not one negative comment or objection. (From just TUs: 1 positive, 2 neutral, 0 negative.) All advice given in the neutral comments was applied. Tone of the message was greatly lightened in the case of icons. Silly workarounds like base64 were removed. No one commented on the number or choice of packages in the lists attached to the original post. I will look for stronger consensus in the future. > The length of my replies might be taken to mean that this is a bigger issue I'm just glad you are taking the time to write them. -Kyle http://kmkeen.com
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
keenerd wrote: > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 2:49 AM, Xyne wrote: > > The issue as I see it is that you presented the idea on this list for > > discussion but didn't care to follow that discussion until a conclusion was > > reached. > > It seemed discussion had petered out. > > > Some TUs objected to the bot and I think you should have taken those > > objections into consideration (e.g. that icons should be tolerated, etc). > > In the days before the launch there were seven replies. Of these, > three were positive and four were neutral. Not one negative comment > or objection. (From just TUs: 1 positive, 2 neutral, 0 negative.) > All advice given in the neutral comments was applied. Tone of the > message was greatly lightened in the case of icons. Silly workarounds > like base64 were removed. No one commented on the number or choice of > packages in the lists attached to the original post. > > I will look for stronger consensus in the future. Fair enough. I still have a different interpretation of how the discussion went but delving into that wouldn't serve any real purpose and it would just feel like nitpicking. I also realize that it wasn't as active as I may have perceived it. Why didn't you just say that in the first place? :| /Xyne
Re: [aur-general] TU application - Kyle Keen
On Thu 09 Dec 2010 09:54 -0500, keenerd wrote: > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 2:49 AM, Xyne wrote: > > The issue as I see it is that you presented the idea on this list for > > discussion but didn't care to follow that discussion until a conclusion was > > reached. > > It seemed discussion had petered out. > > > Some TUs objected to the bot and I think you should have taken those > > objections into consideration (e.g. that icons should be tolerated, etc). > > In the days before the launch there were seven replies. Of these, > three were positive and four were neutral. Not one negative comment > or objection. (From just TUs: 1 positive, 2 neutral, 0 negative.) > All advice given in the neutral comments was applied. Tone of the > message was greatly lightened in the case of icons. Silly workarounds > like base64 were removed. No one commented on the number or choice of > packages in the lists attached to the original post. > > I will look for stronger consensus in the future. If in doubt start a vote. ;)
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 8:36 AM, keenerd wrote: > Hi guys. > > I am Kyle Keen (keenerd) and am applying to be a TU, sponsored by > Xyne. You might remember me from a past application three months ago > (1). Very little has changed since then, though I do have a few more > packages (2). I also started up the first AUR mirror (3), which has > allowed me to prototype silly things far far away from any place I > could do damage. > > Some smaller new developments have included jshon (4) (a parser I > wrote just because greping the AUR's rpc.php results is painful) and > wiki-search (5), a bit of bash to make arch-wiki-docs useful as a > stand alone resource. One long term goal would be to get the > wiki-search script included with the wiki-docs package. > > A very long term goal would be to polish up some of the features from > AUR3 and get them into the real AUR. > > Short term, Thomas Hatch has expressed a desire to have two of my > packages (pacgraph and zeromq) in community. I've been plugging away > at getting the remaining bugs (python3, pacman 3.5, manpage) out of > Pacgraph to make this a possibility. ScrotWM should probably also be > moved, as it is becoming a more popular window manager. > > I am also eyeing the request for an ABS maintainer, assuming I can > figure out the existing issues. > > Looking forward to contributing more to Arch! > > -Kyle > > (1) > http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/aur-general/2010-December/012126.html > (2) http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?K=keenerd&SeB=m&SB=v&SO=d&PP=75 > (3) http://aur3.org > (4) http://kmkeen.com/jshon/ > (5) https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=114291 > Kyle, I think that your contributions to Arch have been great and you have displayed having a level head. I am going to mull through some of your packages for a sharper review, but like I said to you before, I hope we can have you on the team! -Thomas S Hatch
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
keenerd wrote: > Hi guys. > > I am Kyle Keen (keenerd) and am applying to be a TU, sponsored by > Xyne. I have indeed agreed to sponsor Comrade Keen in his bid to infiltrate the capitalist TU swine. He shall aid us in our mission to put the communism back in "community". The package-hoarding pigs must be stopped. May the glorious red star shine upon you, comrade! *hangs large propaganda-laden campaign poster in TU lounge* Comrades Hatch and Chen, initiate plan #5k-ljf6 now! U3RlYWwgYWxsIG9mIHRoZSB0YWNvcyBhbmQgcG91dGluZSwgYW5kIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGUgdGhlbSBp biBleGNoYW5nZSBmb3Igdm90ZXMu Comrade Xyne
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Xyne wrote: > keenerd wrote: > > > Hi guys. > > > > I am Kyle Keen (keenerd) and am applying to be a TU, sponsored by > > Xyne. > > I have indeed agreed to sponsor Comrade Keen in his bid to infiltrate the > capitalist TU swine. He shall aid us in our mission to put the communism > back > in "community". The package-hoarding pigs must be stopped. > > May the glorious red star shine upon you, comrade! > > *hangs large propaganda-laden campaign poster in TU lounge* > > Comrades Hatch and Chen, initiate plan #5k-ljf6 now! > > U3RlYWwgYWxsIG9mIHRoZSB0YWNvcyBhbmQgcG91dGluZSwgYW5kIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGUgdGhlbSBp > biBleGNoYW5nZSBmb3Igdm90ZXMu > > Comrade Xyne > Comrade Kyle is an invaluable asset to the red cause and needed for the future of the Mother Distro! *Salutes Comrade Xyne* Comrade Hatch
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
> On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Xyne wrote: >> I have indeed agreed to sponsor Comrade Keen in his bid to infiltrate the >> capitalist TU swine. He shall aid us in our mission to put the communism >> back >> in "community". The package-hoarding pigs must be stopped. >> >> May the glorious red star shine upon you, comrade! >> >> *hangs large propaganda-laden campaign poster in TU lounge* /me looks proudly upon flag adorned with gifsickle and glashammer. I will fight in desktop. I will fight in server. Year of Arch is upon us now! Comrade in Training Kyle
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
On Wednesday 02 March 2011 17:28:51 Xyne wrote: > keenerd wrote: > > Hi guys. > > > > I am Kyle Keen (keenerd) and am applying to be a TU, sponsored by > > Xyne. > > I have indeed agreed to sponsor Comrade Keen in his bid to infiltrate the ...wait -- should that not be Commander Keen? ;-) https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Commander_Keen What a great game that was, back in the day! Pete. PS. Good luck Kyle!
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
On Wednesday 02 March 2011 18:57:00 Peter Lewis wrote: > On Wednesday 02 March 2011 17:28:51 Xyne wrote: > > keenerd wrote: > > > Hi guys. > > > > > > I am Kyle Keen (keenerd) and am applying to be a TU, sponsored by > > > Xyne. > > > > I have indeed agreed to sponsor Comrade Keen in his bid to infiltrate the > > ...wait -- should that not be Commander Keen? ;-) > > https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Commander_Keen > > What a great game that was, back in the day! ...double wait! http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=39100 :-D
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
On Wed, 2011-03-02 at 19:01 +, Peter Lewis wrote: > On Wednesday 02 March 2011 18:57:00 Peter Lewis wrote: > > On Wednesday 02 March 2011 17:28:51 Xyne wrote: > > > keenerd wrote: > > > > Hi guys. > > > > > > > > I am Kyle Keen (keenerd) and am applying to be a TU, sponsored by > > > > Xyne. > > > > > > I have indeed agreed to sponsor Comrade Keen in his bid to infiltrate the > > > > ...wait -- should that not be Commander Keen? ;-) > > > > https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Commander_Keen > > > > What a great game that was, back in the day! > > ...double wait! > > http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=39100 > > :-D Damn you're old
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
On 03/02/2011 05:36 PM, keenerd wrote: Hi guys. I am Kyle Keen (keenerd) and am applying to be a TU, sponsored by Xyne. You might remember me from a past application three months ago (1). Very little has changed since then, though I do have a few more packages (2). I also started up the first AUR mirror (3), which has allowed me to prototype silly things far far away from any place I could do damage. last time, if i remember well, you redraw your application in the last minute. why do you want to be a TU now and why didn't want the previous application to reach voting period? -- Ionuț
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
On 3/3/11, Ionuț Bîru wrote: > On 03/02/2011 05:36 PM, keenerd wrote: >> Hi guys. >> >> I am Kyle Keen (keenerd) and am applying to be a TU, sponsored by >> Xyne. You might remember me from a past application three months ago > > last time, if i remember well, you redraw your application in the last > minute. > > why do you want to be a TU now and why didn't want the previous > application to reach voting period? I want to be a TU now for the same reasons I wanted to be a TU then. Arch sucks and it could really use any help it can get ;-) Regarding my actions last time, maybe I felt moved by the reactions to R.Daneel. While the bot did not go against the letter of any law (but perhaps the spirit of it) I felt a self imposed punishment (also to the spirit of the law) appropriate. Not living up to the TU standards, the application failed by default and (as any failed applicant must) waited three months. -Kyle
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 6:03 AM, keenerd wrote: > On 3/3/11, Ionuț Bîru wrote: >> On 03/02/2011 05:36 PM, keenerd wrote: >>> Hi guys. >>> >>> I am Kyle Keen (keenerd) and am applying to be a TU, sponsored by >>> Xyne. You might remember me from a past application three months ago >> >> last time, if i remember well, you redraw your application in the last >> minute. >> >> why do you want to be a TU now and why didn't want the previous >> application to reach voting period? > > I want to be a TU now for the same reasons I wanted to be a TU then. > Arch sucks and it could really use any help it can get ;-) > > Regarding my actions last time, maybe I felt moved by the reactions to > R.Daneel. While the bot did not go against the letter of any law (but > perhaps the spirit of it) I felt a self imposed punishment (also to > the spirit of the law) appropriate. Not living up to the TU > standards, the application failed by default and (as any failed > applicant must) waited three months. > > -Kyle > Hi Kyle, This is a great virtue and I think, demonstrates a great deal about you. Your packages looks good and I would love to have someone working on the aur. There's always things that need to get done with it, and I hope for the best. Cheers!
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
On 3/3/11, keenerd wrote: > I want to be a TU now for the same reasons I wanted to be a TU then. > Arch sucks and it could really use any help it can get ;-) I don't think the phrasing here is really for your benefit. Det
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Det wrote: > On 3/3/11, keenerd wrote: > > I want to be a TU now for the same reasons I wanted to be a TU then. > > Arch sucks and it could really use any help it can get ;-) > > I don't think the phrasing here is really for your benefit. > > Det > I think he is being sarcastic, hence the ;-)
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Det wrote: > >> On 3/3/11, keenerd wrote: >> > I want to be a TU now for the same reasons I wanted to be a TU then. >> > Arch sucks and it could really use any help it can get ;-) >> >> I don't think the phrasing here is really for your benefit. >> >> Det >> > > I think he is being sarcastic, hence the ;-) > Well, in a sense arch *does* suck in some ways, but it sucks less, as the saying goes :)
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Thomas Dziedzic wrote: > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Thomas S Hatch > wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Det wrote: > > > >> On 3/3/11, keenerd wrote: > >> > I want to be a TU now for the same reasons I wanted to be a TU then. > >> > Arch sucks and it could really use any help it can get ;-) > >> > >> I don't think the phrasing here is really for your benefit. > >> > >> Det > >> > > > > I think he is being sarcastic, hence the ;-) > > > > Well, in a sense arch *does* suck in some ways, but it sucks less, as > the saying goes :) > Well said, I mean we all suck, I just hope I suck less today than I did yesterday
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
Thomas S Hatch wrote: > > Well, in a sense arch *does* suck in some ways, but it sucks less, as > > the saying goes :) > > > Well said, I mean we all suck, I just hope I suck less today than I did > yesterday That's what she said. *ducks*
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 22:23 +0100, Xyne wrote: > Thomas S Hatch wrote: > > > > Well, in a sense arch *does* suck in some ways, but it sucks less, as > > > the saying goes :) > > > > > Well said, I mean we all suck, I just hope I suck less today than I did > > yesterday > > That's what she said. > > *ducks* How is it that TU applications seem to always end up here (a thousand miles away) =)
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
2011/3/3 Ng Oon-Ee > On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 22:23 +0100, Xyne wrote: > > Thomas S Hatch wrote: > > > > > > Well, in a sense arch *does* suck in some ways, but it sucks less, as > > > > the saying goes :) > > > > > > > Well said, I mean we all suck, I just hope I suck less today than I did > > > yesterday > > > > That's what she said. > > > > *ducks* > > How is it that TU applications seem to always end up here (a thousand > miles away) =) > > I think that this happens when we don't have a whole lot of concerns about the applicant, but you are right, we should grill keenard on something. Should I ask him to explain how the python GIL works? Or should we try to think of something relevant? -Tom Hatch
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
On 3/3/11, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > Should I ask him to explain how the python GIL works? In one word: poorly. Not that I care, my laptop is single core and in-order to boot. If I had one of those pretty six core Phenoms I'd be switching my code over to Stackless faster than you can say lock contention. -Kyle http://kmkeen.com
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 5:04 PM, keenerd wrote: > On 3/3/11, Thomas S Hatch wrote: >> Should I ask him to explain how the python GIL works? > > In one word: poorly. Not that I care, my laptop is single core and > in-order to boot. If I had one of those pretty six core Phenoms I'd > be switching my code over to Stackless faster than you can say lock > contention. > > -Kyle > http://kmkeen.com > check import multiprocessing It's uses processes instead of threads, but it's probably a really good way of utilizing all your cores :)
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen)
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 8:06 PM, Thomas Dziedzic wrote: > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 5:04 PM, keenerd wrote: > > On 3/3/11, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > >> Should I ask him to explain how the python GIL works? > > > > In one word: poorly. Not that I care, my laptop is single core and > > in-order to boot. If I had one of those pretty six core Phenoms I'd > > be switching my code over to Stackless faster than you can say lock > > contention. > > > > -Kyle > > http://kmkeen.com > > > > check import multiprocessing > It's uses processes instead of threads, but it's probably a really > good way of utilizing all your cores :) > Yes multiprocessing is awesome, but they are heavy weight - and they break zeromq, my preferred networking lib. Sometimes I wish there was a clean middle ground, unfortunately it is called writing code in a not interpreted language, so I am slowly sharpening my OCaml knife.
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen) - Voting Period
Hi, The discussion period has ended. Please make your way to the AUR to vote: https://aur.archlinux.org/tu.php?id=48 Regards, Xyne
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen) - Voting Period Results
The voting period has ended with the following results: Yes: 19 No: 1 Abstain: 5 With 28 active TUs, quorum has been reached and the application has been accepted. Congratulations, Kyle, and welcome to the team! I have updated your AUR status. Please make your way through the TODO list: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/AUR_Trusted_User_Guidelines#TODO_list_for_new_Trusted_Users Regards, Xyne
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen) - Voting Period Results
On 3/16/11, Xyne wrote: > Congratulations, Kyle, and welcome to the team! I have updated your AUR > status. > Please make your way through the TODO list: Thank you. I'll get started on moving Pacgraph and Zeromq tonight. -Kyle http://kmkeen.com
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen) - Voting Period Results
On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 10:17 PM, Xyne wrote: > The voting period has ended with the following results: > > Yes: 19 > No: 1 > Abstain: 5 > > With 28 active TUs, quorum has been reached and the application has been > accepted. > > Congratulations, Kyle, and welcome to the team! I have updated your AUR > status. > Please make your way through the TODO list: > Congratulation! -- Sébastien Luttringer www.seblu.net
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen) - Voting Period Results
On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 5:43 PM, keenerd wrote: > On 3/16/11, Xyne wrote: >> Congratulations, Kyle, and welcome to the team! I have updated your AUR >> status. >> Please make your way through the TODO list: > > Thank you. > > I'll get started on moving Pacgraph and Zeromq tonight. > > -Kyle > http://kmkeen.com > Not so fast. You still have to prove your worthiness by fighting Jelle over the mouth of an active volcano, preferably Etna. P.S. congrats
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen) - Voting Period Results
On 16 March 2011 23:43, keenerd wrote: > On 3/16/11, Xyne wrote: >> Congratulations, Kyle, and welcome to the team! I have updated your AUR >> status. >> Please make your way through the TODO list: > > Thank you. > > I'll get started on moving Pacgraph and Zeromq tonight. > > -Kyle > http://kmkeen.com > Congratulations!
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen) - Voting Period Results
Le mercredi 16 mars 2011 23:43:39, keenerd a écrit : > On 3/16/11, Xyne wrote: > > Congratulations, Kyle, and welcome to the team! I have updated your AUR > > status. > > > Please make your way through the TODO list: > Thank you. > > I'll get started on moving Pacgraph and Zeromq tonight. > > -Kyle > http://kmkeen.com Congrats, welcome!
Re: [aur-general] TU application (Kyle Keen) - Voting Period Results
On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 06:43:39PM -0400, keenerd wrote: > On 3/16/11, Xyne wrote: > > Congratulations, Kyle, and welcome to the team! I have updated your AUR > > status. > > Please make your way through the TODO list: > > Thank you. > > I'll get started on moving Pacgraph and Zeromq tonight. Congrats, welcome onboard!
