Re: [Aus-soaring] JANUARY ISSUE - GLIDING INTERNATIONAL

[Peter Champness]

"Mike

You’re making a fool of yourself.   It is about to be 2016 not 1916."


Wow , strong language John!  Take it easy.

Fortunately Mike is up to it and will likely take it in his stride.


On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:40 PM, John Roake  wrote:

> On 14/12/15 2:59 PM, "BORGELT_MIKE" 
> wrote: Our reply  hereunder:
>
>   Mike
>
> You’re making a fool of yourself.   It is about to be 2016 not 1916.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 08:53 AM 12/14/2015, you wrote:
>
>
> GLIDING INTERNATIONAL
> ISSUE JANUARY 2015
>
>
>
>
> •  You can now buy a heads-up-display for your sailplane for as low as
> $259. Gliding International challenges gilder instrument manufacturers to
> make their products compatible.  This ‘heads in the cockpit’ eliminator
> should be compulsory for all sailplanes writes Joseph Carr, the new writer
> to join our competent team at Gliding International.
>
>
>
> We already have a "head in the cockpit" eliminator for gliders. It is
> called audio, which in combination with attitude by looking outside, works
> fine.
> If you aren't already looking outside you are missing the information that
> will help your cross country soaring - the clouds, the ground, other
> gliders, aircraft etc.
>
> Borgelt Instruments is also working on a new pilot interface which isn't a
> HUD or Head mounted display and which will be much more unobtrusive.
>
> I have a friend who flys the ARH Tiger helicopter with a helmet mounted
> display. Great thing for the purpose but he told me he's aware of some US
> Navy research where pilots picked up uncued targets about 88% of the time
>  without a HUD and 8% when looking through a HUD. Human vision isn't so
> much about "seeing" as it is about "perceiving".
>
> When I say "uncued" I mean that there isn't a little square box in the HUD
> framing where to look for the target put their by the radar and or infrared
> sensors of that aircraft or others that are datalinked to it..
>
> Mike
>
>
> *Borgelt Instruments* -
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
>   tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas:
> int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784: int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
> --
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Re: [Aus-soaring] SEASONS GREETINGS

[Peter Champness]

Thanks John,

Ingenious Christmas card.  I did spend a bit of time checking out all the
Santa aviation refinements.

Happy Christmas

Peter Champness

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 11:10 AM, John Roake  wrote:

>
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 4, Issue 31

[Peter Champness]

Thanks

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 6:26 PM, John Gwyther (BIGPOND) <
jgwyt...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

> Oops, satellite shot got cut. -Try again.
>
> Cheers
>
> John
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On
> Behalf
> Of aus-soaring-requ...@lists.base64.com.au
> Sent: Friday, 26 February 2016 6:24 PM
> To: aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> Subject: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 4, Issue 31
>
> Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> aus-soaring-requ...@lists.base64.com.au
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> aus-soaring-ow...@lists.base64.com.au
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. nice wave off Wilsons Prom and Tassie (John Gwyther (BIGPOND))
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 18:23:59 +1100
> From: "John Gwyther \(BIGPOND\)" 
> To: 
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] nice wave off Wilsons Prom and Tassie
> Message-ID: <023201d17066$a9df16c0$fd9d4440$@bigpond.net.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Some beautiful wave trains today off Wilsons Promontory (15-18 waves),
> Flinders Island and almost all of Tasmania in strong-ish Westerly winds
> today. Current wind profile from West Sale to Flinder Island is:
>
> YWSL YFLI  1590129 445  282  070  +039  -058  -58  -02
>385  284  068  +039  -056  -55  +02
>340  284  063  +037  -051  -48  +04
>300  281  057  +030  -048  -40  +04
>265  277  052  +025  -046  -25  +07
>185  267  044  +014  -042  -13  +08
>140  262  040  +009  -039  -03  +10
>100  258  034  +006  -034  +05  +10
>050  254  027  +003  -027  +10  +04
>
> Here is a shot at 1410 today captured from the current satellite stream:
>
>
>
> I could see a wave flight across Bass Strait and all the way to Hobart
> here.
>
> Cheers
>
> John
> -- next part --
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: winmail.dat
> Type: application/ms-tnef
> Size: 2921777 bytes
> Desc: not available
> URL:
> <
> http://lists.base64.com.au/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20160226/5958be0
> c/attachment.bin>
>
> --
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 4, Issue 31
> **
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 4, Issue 31

[Peter Champness]

Off topic,

Miles Gore Brown.
Do you have a power point of your presentation on FLYING NEAR THUNDERSTORMS
which you gave to the ASI Master Class last year?

I thought it was great but the GFA seems not to have kept any record!

Yours Peter Champness

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 6:31 PM, Peter Champness 
wrote:

> Thanks
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 6:26 PM, John Gwyther (BIGPOND) <
> jgwyt...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
>> Oops, satellite shot got cut. -Try again.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> John
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On
>> Behalf
>> Of aus-soaring-requ...@lists.base64.com.au
>> Sent: Friday, 26 February 2016 6:24 PM
>> To: aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>> Subject: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 4, Issue 31
>>
>> Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to
>> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> aus-soaring-requ...@lists.base64.com.au
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> aus-soaring-ow...@lists.base64.com.au
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
>> "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. nice wave off Wilsons Prom and Tassie (John Gwyther (BIGPOND))
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 18:23:59 +1100
>> From: "John Gwyther \(BIGPOND\)" 
>> To: 
>> Subject: [Aus-soaring] nice wave off Wilsons Prom and Tassie
>> Message-ID: <023201d17066$a9df16c0$fd9d4440$@bigpond.net.au>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Some beautiful wave trains today off Wilsons Promontory (15-18 waves),
>> Flinders Island and almost all of Tasmania in strong-ish Westerly winds
>> today. Current wind profile from West Sale to Flinder Island is:
>>
>> YWSL YFLI  1590129 445  282  070  +039  -058  -58  -02
>>385  284  068  +039  -056  -55  +02
>>340  284  063  +037  -051  -48  +04
>>300  281  057  +030  -048  -40  +04
>>265  277  052  +025  -046  -25  +07
>>185  267  044  +014  -042  -13  +08
>>140  262  040  +009  -039  -03  +10
>>100  258  034  +006  -034  +05  +10
>>050  254  027  +003  -027  +10  +04
>>
>> Here is a shot at 1410 today captured from the current satellite stream:
>>
>>
>>
>> I could see a wave flight across Bass Strait and all the way to Hobart
>> here.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> John
>> -- next part --
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> Name: winmail.dat
>> Type: application/ms-tnef
>> Size: 2921777 bytes
>> Desc: not available
>> URL:
>> <
>> http://lists.base64.com.au/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20160226/5958be0
>> c/attachment.bin
>> <http://lists.base64.com.au/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20160226/5958be0c/attachment.bin>
>> >
>>
>> --
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
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>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
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>>
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>> End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 4, Issue 31
>> **
>>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

[Peter Champness]

There have been quite a few accidents in recent years due to misjudging the
approach to landing and undershooting.

Clearly if the angle of approach seems too low a pilot will take option B
and make an outlanding.  It is probably much easier to see this in a short
wing Kookaburra than it is in a 50:1 glider.   In a high performance glider
the difference between a safe approach and a marginal one is about 1
degree.  Worse still if the area adjacent to the runway is unlandable and
hence the outlanding decision must be taken quite a way from the airfield.


Hence when flying a modern glider it is probably a good idea to add an
additional safety margin

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Gary Stevenson 
wrote:

> Hello Bob,
>
> Good to see you in print again.
>
>
>
> For newer members to our sport, Let me say that Bob has “been there and
> done that” in reference to most elements of our sport. On this particular
> aspect of our sport . yep he has  “ been there and done that” too,
> having looked Death in the eye after he had a nasty landing discussion with
> a fence.
>
>
>
> Again for newer members, I have attached what is perhaps the seminal
> article (1993), on this subject, by a guy named Bruno Gantenbrink, (now
> another old fogey). However he was not always an old fogey, and you might
> be a bit surprised at some of the tricks he got up to!
>
>
>
> I noted Richard Frawley’s one line comment with some surprise: Totally
> irrelevant here, but it could be the basis of a new thread: However I
> expect that this topic has already been done to death, so is not new.
>
>
>
> Regards.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
> Behalf Of *Bob Ward
> *Sent:* Monday, 29 February 2016 7:43 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV
>
>
>
> If Peter Cesco with his myriad experience does not know that gliding is
> many times more dangerous than the drive to the airport, then I am truly
> amazed. In my forty nine years continuous participation with the sport, I
> can now count thirteen  people I knew who have perished whilst perusing
> gliding. Two of these were members of my own club, and several were
> competition associates.
>
> I do not have any answer as to how we promote our sport if we are honest
> and face up to the fact that it is essentially “bloody dangerous” . This is
> of course a dilemma facing the GFA and individuals or groups trying to
> promote our sport. However I cringe when I hear glider pilots try to
> perpetuate the old myth “the most dangerous part of gliding is the drive to
> the airport”
>
> Otherwise I agree that Peter’s TV spot was a creditable performance.
>
> Regards
>
> Bob Ward
>
>
>
> *From:* Glenn McLean 
>
> *Sent:* Monday, February 29, 2016 6:04 PM
>
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> 
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV
>
>
>
> Thanks David.
> Glenn
>
> On 2/29/2016 6:41 PM, David Holmes wrote:
>
> HI Glen
>
>
>
> Is this what you want?
>
>
>
>
> http://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/2016-nsw-state-championships-lake-keepit-gld-2016/results
>
> Soaring Spot :: 2016 NSW State Championships
> 
>
> www.soaringspot.com
>
> Lake Keepit Gld, Australia, 27 February 2016 – 5 March 2016 ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>
> *David*
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
>  on behalf of Glenn McLean
> mailto:glenn...@bigpond.com 
> *Sent:* Monday, 29 February 2016 6:34 PM
> *To:* aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV
>
>
>
> Hi Derek,
> Any idea on how to access info about the NSW State Comps? I looked at the
> keepit website and it goes nowhere.
> Regards
> Glenn
>
> On 2/29/2016 4:29 PM, Derek wrote:
>
> Any idea why he didn’t land on the clear strip just to the right?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] *On Behalf Of *Mark Newton
> *Sent:* Monday, February 29, 2016 1:54 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV
>
>
>
> On Feb 29, 2016, at 1:50 PM, Anthony Smith 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Which show was it on?
>
>
>
>
> https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/30949880/adelaide-doctor-recovering-in-hospital-after-glider-crash/#page1
>
>
>
>- mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
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>
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>
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
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>
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>
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
> --
>
> ___
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> Aus-

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

[Peter Champness]

Possibly of interest Mike.

Can you enlarge on this comment.  Do you mean open the dive brakes 10 km
for the Airfield and make an off field landing, as I have suggested?



On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> I thought that's what dive brakes were for.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 10:12 AM 3/1/2016, you wrote:
>
> There have been quite a few accidents in recent years due to misjudging
> the approach to landing and undershooting.
>
> Clearly if the angle of approach seems too low a pilot will take option B
> and make an outlanding.  It is probably much easier to see this in a short
> wing Kookaburra than it is in a 50:1 glider. Â  In a high performance
> glider the difference between a safe approach and a marginal one is about 1
> degree.  Worse still if the area adjacent to the runway is unlandable and
> hence the outlanding decision must be taken quite a way from the airfield.
> Â Â
>
> Hence when flying a modern glider it is probably a good idea to add an
> additional safety marginÂ
>
> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Gary Stevenson 
> wrote:
>
> Hello Bob,
>
> Good to see you in print again.
>
> Â
>
> For newer members to our sport, Let me say that Bob has “been there and
> done that†in reference to most elements of our sport. On this particular
> aspect of our sport . yep he has  “ been there and done that†too,
> having looked Death in the eye after he had a nasty landing discussion with
> a fence.
>
> Â
>
> Again for newer members, I have attached what is perhaps the seminal
> article (1993), on this subject, by a guy named Bruno Gantenbrink, (now
> another old fogey). However he was not always an old fogey, and you might
> be a bit surprised at some of the tricks he got up to!
>
> Â
>
> I noted Richard Frawley’s one line comment with some surprise: Totally
> irrelevant here, but it could be the basis of a new thread: However I
> expect that this topic has already been done to death, so is not new.
>
> Â
>
> Regards.
>
> Gary
>
> Â
>
> Â
>
> From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] On Behalf Of Bob Ward
> Sent: Monday, 29 February 2016 7:43 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV
>
> Â
>
> If Peter Cesco with his myriad experience does not know that gliding is
> many times more dangerous than the drive to the airport, then I am truly
> amazed. In my forty nine years continuous participation with the sport, I
> can now count thirteen  people I knew who have perished whilst perusing
> gliding. Two of these were members of my own club, and several were
> competition associates.
>
> I do not have any answer as to how we promote our sport if we are honest
> and face up to the fact that it is essentially “bloody dangerous†. This
> is of course a dilemma facing the GFA and individuals or groups trying to
> promote our sport. However I cringe when I hear glider pilots try to
> perpetuate the old myth “the most dangerous part of gliding is the drive
> to the airportâ€
>
> Otherwise I agree that Peter’s TV spot was a creditable performance.
>
> Regards
>
> Bob Ward
>
> Â
>
> From: Glenn McLean 
>
> Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 6:04 PM
>
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> 
>
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV
>
> Â
>
> Thanks David.
> Glenn
>
> On 2/29/2016 6:41 PM, David Holmes wrote:
>
> HI Glen
>
> Â
>
> Is this what you want?
>
> Â
>
>
> http://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/2016-nsw-state-championships-lake-keepit-gld-2016/results
>
> Soaring Spot :: 2016 NSW State Championships
> 
>
> www.soaringspot.com
>
> Lake Keepit Gld, Australia, 27 February 2016 – 5 March 2016 ...
>
> Â
>
> Â
>
> Â
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>
> David
>
> Â
> --
> From: Aus-soaring mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
>  on behalf of Glenn McLean
> mailto:glenn...@bigpond.com 
> Sent: Monday, 29 February 2016 6:34 PM
> To: aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV
>
> Â
>
> Hi Derek,
> Any idea on how to access info about the NSW State Comps? I looked at the
> keepit website and it goes nowhere.
> Regards
> Glenn
>
> On 2/29/2016 4:29 PM, Derek wrote:
>
> Any idea why he didn’t land on the clear strip just to the right?
>
> Â
>
> Â
>
> From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] On Behalf Of Mark Newton
> Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 1:54 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV
>
> Â
>
> On Feb 29, 2016, at 1:50 PM, Anthony Smith < anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net>
> wrote:
>
> Â
>
> Which show was it on?
>
> Â
>
>
> https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/30949880/adelaide-doctor-recovering-in-hospital-after-glider-crash/#page1
>
> Â
>
> Â Â  - mark
>
> Â
>
> Â
>
>

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

[Peter Champness]

*"I was trying to figure out what you were getting at. I use a glide
computer, not the Mark 1 eyeball for final glides"*

Thanks Mike,  What I was getting at was this: At the end of a final glide
you have decision to make.  It it this:* Am I sure I can get in to the
airfield safely*!  This decision is made by observation, not computer.  If
the answer is* "not sure"* then a out landing should be made.  The decision
seems to be much harder in a high performance glider (given recent
incidents).

If you want to use the airbrakes they must be used to choose the safe
landing option, ie the paddock short of the airfield.


On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> I was trying to figure out what you were getting at. I use a glide
> computer, not the Mark 1 eyeball for final glides. If you are going to do
> really skinny final glides it better be one you are familiar with and a
> glider you are familiar with.
> I'm also very conservative and while I've taken the risk of having an
> outlanding in order to gain contest points I've never knowingly risked my
> life by going where I couldn't reasonably get to a suitable landing area.
> I've been fortunate to have an outstanding crew who can drive and navigate
> and a good trailer so de-rigging is a simple 5 minute operation. Running
> into a rabbit hole in the paddock is just the luck of the draw. In 63 for
> real paddock landings the worst damage was a flat main tyre.(there's an
> interesting story - don't land out on the highest ground for about 100 km
> around - and eagles climb better than gliders)
>
> Anyway after looking at Google Earth and the TV footage I don't think
> we're talking about a misjudged skinny final glide in this case. YMMV (Your
> Mileage May Vary). Then again we may never get to know and speculation is
> all we have.
> It doesn't do any harm BTW. We have a broken glider and pilot and it can
> be a great learning experience to figure out how this MIGHT have happened.
> Trusting officialdom to come up with the truth is fraught. I know of one
> GFA accident investigation that was totally FUBAR because of faulty logic
> and lack of understanding of the characteristics of the instrumentation
> relied upon.
> The ATSB was brought into being because, quite rightly, it was perceived
> that the regulator would never find fault with its own rules and procedures
> even when they were contributory. The GFA investigates itself.
> Does anyone know what really happened at Ararat nearly 4 years ago? Like
> how many hours did the instructor have? How many solo? How many
> instructing? How many last 12 months, last 90 days? The US NTSB would let
> you know.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> At 06:13 PM 3/1/2016, you wrote:
>
> Possibly of interest Mike.Â
>
> Can you enlarge on this comment.  Do you mean open the dive brakes 10 km
> for the Airfield and make an off field landing, as I have suggested?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Mike Borgelt <
> mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote: I thought that's what dive brakes
> were for.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> At 10:12 AM 3/1/2016, you wrote:
>
> There have been quite a few accidents in recent years due to misjudging
> the approach to landing and undershooting.
> Clearly if the angle of approach seems too low a pilot will take option B
> and make an outlanding.  It is probably much easier to see this in a
> short wing Kookaburra than it is in a 50:1 glider.   In a high
> performance glider the difference between a safe approach and a marginal
> one is about 1 degree.  Worse still if the area adjacent to the runway
> is unlandable and hence the outlanding decision must be taken quite a way
> from the airfield. Â Â
> Hence when flying a modern glider it is probably a good idea to add an
> additional safety marginÂ
> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Gary Stevenson 
> wrote: Hello Bob, Good to see you in print again. Â For newer members to
> our sport, Let me say that Bob has “been there and done that†in
> reference to most elements of our sport. OOn this particular aspect of our
> sport . yep he has  â€ÅÅ“ been there and done that†too, having
> looked Death in the eye after he had a nassty landing discussion with a
> fence. Â Again for newer members, I have attached what is perhaps the
> seminal article (1993), on this subject, by a guy named Bruno Gantenbrink,
> (now another old fogey). However he was not always an old fogey, and you
> might be a bit surprised at some of the tricks he got up to! Â I noted
> Richard Frawley̢۪s one line comment nt with some surprise: Totally
> irrelevant here, but it could be the basis of a new thread: However I
> expect that this topic has already been done to death, so is not new. Â 
> Regards.
> Gary   From: Aus-soaring [
> mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] On Behalf Of Bob Ward Sent:
> Monday, 29 February 2016 7:43 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to
> Soaring in Australia. Subject: R

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

[Peter Champness]

"Anyway after looking at Google Earth and the TV footage I don't think
we're talking about a misjudged skinny final glide in this case."

Disagree!  Adelaide doctor can answer for himself.

The approach to Waikerie airfield from the North involves;
1, crossing the river,
2. an up slope of 100 ft or more from the river.
3. vineyards before the airfield boundary,
4. powerlines.
5. runway is uphill.

Glider landed in the vines.  The legal phase (sometimes used in medical
cases) is "res ipse loquitor" - the facts speek for themselves.

Peter Champness

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> I was trying to figure out what you were getting at. I use a glide
> computer, not the Mark 1 eyeball for final glides. If you are going to do
> really skinny final glides it better be one you are familiar with and a
> glider you are familiar with.
> I'm also very conservative and while I've taken the risk of having an
> outlanding in order to gain contest points I've never knowingly risked my
> life by going where I couldn't reasonably get to a suitable landing area.
> I've been fortunate to have an outstanding crew who can drive and navigate
> and a good trailer so de-rigging is a simple 5 minute operation. Running
> into a rabbit hole in the paddock is just the luck of the draw. In 63 for
> real paddock landings the worst damage was a flat main tyre.(there's an
> interesting story - don't land out on the highest ground for about 100 km
> around - and eagles climb better than gliders)
>
> Anyway after looking at Google Earth and the TV footage I don't think
> we're talking about a misjudged skinny final glide in this case. YMMV (Your
> Mileage May Vary). Then again we may never get to know and speculation is
> all we have.
> It doesn't do any harm BTW. We have a broken glider and pilot and it can
> be a great learning experience to figure out how this MIGHT have happened.
> Trusting officialdom to come up with the truth is fraught. I know of one
> GFA accident investigation that was totally FUBAR because of faulty logic
> and lack of understanding of the characteristics of the instrumentation
> relied upon.
> The ATSB was brought into being because, quite rightly, it was perceived
> that the regulator would never find fault with its own rules and procedures
> even when they were contributory. The GFA investigates itself.
> Does anyone know what really happened at Ararat nearly 4 years ago? Like
> how many hours did the instructor have? How many solo? How many
> instructing? How many last 12 months, last 90 days? The US NTSB would let
> you know.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> At 06:13 PM 3/1/2016, you wrote:
>
>> Possibly of interest Mike.Â
>>
>> Can you enlarge on this comment.  Do you mean open the dive brakes 10 km
>> for the Airfield and make an off field landing, as I have suggested?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Mike Borgelt <> mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:
>> I thought that's what dive brakes were for.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 10:12 AM 3/1/2016, you wrote:
>>
>>> There have been quite a few accidents in recent years due to misjudging
>>> the approach to landing and undershooting.
>>>
>>> Clearly if the angle of approach seems too low a pilot will take option
>>> B and make an outlanding.  It is probably much easier to see this in a
>>> short wing Kookaburra than it is in a 50:1 glider.   In a high
>>> performance glider the difference between a safe approach and a marginal
>>> one is about 1 degree.  Worse still if the area adjacent to the runway
>>> is unlandable and hence the outlanding decision must be taken quite a way
>>> from the airfield. Â Â
>>>
>>> Hence when flying a modern glider it is probably a good idea to add an
>>> additional safety marginÂ
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Gary Stevenson <>> gstev...@bigpond.com>gstev...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Bob,
>>> Good to see you in print again.
>>> Â
>>> For newer members to our sport, Let me say that Bob has “been there
>>> and done that†in reference to most elements of our sport. OOn this
>>> particular aspect of our sport . yep he has  â€ÅÅ“ been there and
>>> done that†too, having looked Death in the eye after he had a nassty
>>> landing discussion with a fence.
>>> Â
>>> Again for newer members, I have attached what is perhap

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

[Peter Champness]

Yes I did  Otherwise he would not have landed in the vines.

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:45 PM, Paul Bart  wrote:

>
> Yes, but when they coined that impressive phrase, they assumed that the
> facts used would be relevant. Unless you actually know what happened to the
> glider you are just guessing and "the facts" put forward may be entirely
> irrelevant to what happened. Whilst you have said the the pilot can speak
> for himself, you then went ahead and suggested that he was low on approach.
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul
> On 1 Mar 2016 21:29, "Peter Champness"  wrote:
>
>> "Anyway after looking at Google Earth and the TV footage I don't think
>> we're talking about a misjudged skinny final glide in this case."
>>
>> Disagree!  Adelaide doctor can answer for himself.
>>
>> The approach to Waikerie airfield from the North involves;
>> 1, crossing the river,
>> 2. an up slope of 100 ft or more from the river.
>> 3. vineyards before the airfield boundary,
>> 4. powerlines.
>> 5. runway is uphill.
>>
>> Glider landed in the vines.  The legal phase (sometimes used in medical
>> cases) is "res ipse loquitor" - the facts speek for themselves.
>>
>> Peter Champness
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Mike Borgelt <
>> mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I was trying to figure out what you were getting at. I use a glide
>>> computer, not the Mark 1 eyeball for final glides. If you are going to do
>>> really skinny final glides it better be one you are familiar with and a
>>> glider you are familiar with.
>>> I'm also very conservative and while I've taken the risk of having an
>>> outlanding in order to gain contest points I've never knowingly risked my
>>> life by going where I couldn't reasonably get to a suitable landing area.
>>> I've been fortunate to have an outstanding crew who can drive and navigate
>>> and a good trailer so de-rigging is a simple 5 minute operation. Running
>>> into a rabbit hole in the paddock is just the luck of the draw. In 63 for
>>> real paddock landings the worst damage was a flat main tyre.(there's an
>>> interesting story - don't land out on the highest ground for about 100 km
>>> around - and eagles climb better than gliders)
>>>
>>> Anyway after looking at Google Earth and the TV footage I don't think
>>> we're talking about a misjudged skinny final glide in this case. YMMV (Your
>>> Mileage May Vary). Then again we may never get to know and speculation is
>>> all we have.
>>> It doesn't do any harm BTW. We have a broken glider and pilot and it can
>>> be a great learning experience to figure out how this MIGHT have happened.
>>> Trusting officialdom to come up with the truth is fraught. I know of one
>>> GFA accident investigation that was totally FUBAR because of faulty logic
>>> and lack of understanding of the characteristics of the instrumentation
>>> relied upon.
>>> The ATSB was brought into being because, quite rightly, it was perceived
>>> that the regulator would never find fault with its own rules and procedures
>>> even when they were contributory. The GFA investigates itself.
>>> Does anyone know what really happened at Ararat nearly 4 years ago? Like
>>> how many hours did the instructor have? How many solo? How many
>>> instructing? How many last 12 months, last 90 days? The US NTSB would let
>>> you know.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 06:13 PM 3/1/2016, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> Possibly of interest Mike.Â
>>>>
>>>> Can you enlarge on this comment.  Do you mean open the dive brakes 10
>>>> km for the Airfield and make an off field landing, as I have suggested?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Mike Borgelt <>>> mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:
>>>> I thought that's what dive brakes were for.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At 10:12 AM 3/1/2016, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There have been quite a few accidents in recent years due to
>>>>> misjudging the approach to landing and undershooting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly if the angle of approach seems too low a pilot will 

Re: [Aus-soaring] Potential dangers in the sport of gliding

[Peter Champness]

*'Does anyone know what really happened at Ararat nearly 4 years ago?''*

*Yes we do know what happened.*  Why try to hide it?

There was an aerotow incident,  The rope went slack.  They released at low
altitude. There was a safe landing ahead.  Maurice Little  did a turn back
to the airfield  at low altitude. The glider stalled in a tun and crashed
 Both student and instructor were killed.

The rules are clear. Land ahead if possible.


On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> I was trying to figure out what you were getting at. I use a glide
> computer, not the Mark 1 eyeball for final glides. If you are going to do
> really skinny final glides it better be one you are familiar with and a
> glider you are familiar with.
> I'm also very conservative and while I've taken the risk of having an
> outlanding in order to gain contest points I've never knowingly risked my
> life by going where I couldn't reasonably get to a suitable landing area.
> I've been fortunate to have an outstanding crew who can drive and navigate
> and a good trailer so de-rigging is a simple 5 minute operation. Running
> into a rabbit hole in the paddock is just the luck of the draw. In 63 for
> real paddock landings the worst damage was a flat main tyre.(there's an
> interesting story - don't land out on the highest ground for about 100 km
> around - and eagles climb better than gliders)
>
> Anyway after looking at Google Earth and the TV footage I don't think
> we're talking about a misjudged skinny final glide in this case. YMMV (Your
> Mileage May Vary). Then again we may never get to know and speculation is
> all we have.
> It doesn't do any harm BTW. We have a broken glider and pilot and it can
> be a great learning experience to figure out how this MIGHT have happened.
> Trusting officialdom to come up with the truth is fraught. I know of one
> GFA accident investigation that was totally FUBAR because of faulty logic
> and lack of understanding of the characteristics of the instrumentation
> relied upon.
> The ATSB was brought into being because, quite rightly, it was perceived
> that the regulator would never find fault with its own rules and procedures
> even when they were contributory. The GFA investigates itself.
> Does anyone know what really happened at Ararat nearly 4 years ago? Like
> how many hours did the instructor have? How many solo? How many
> instructing? How many last 12 months, last 90 days? The US NTSB would let
> you know.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> At 06:13 PM 3/1/2016, you wrote:
>
>> Possibly of interest Mike.Â
>>
>> Can you enlarge on this comment.  Do you mean open the dive brakes 10 km
>> for the Airfield and make an off field landing, as I have suggested?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Mike Borgelt <> mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:
>> I thought that's what dive brakes were for.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 10:12 AM 3/1/2016, you wrote:
>>
>>> There have been quite a few accidents in recent years due to misjudging
>>> the approach to landing and undershooting.
>>>
>>> Clearly if the angle of approach seems too low a pilot will take option
>>> B and make an outlanding.  It is probably much easier to see this in a
>>> short wing Kookaburra than it is in a 50:1 glider.   In a high
>>> performance glider the difference between a safe approach and a marginal
>>> one is about 1 degree.  Worse still if the area adjacent to the runway
>>> is unlandable and hence the outlanding decision must be taken quite a way
>>> from the airfield. Â Â
>>>
>>> Hence when flying a modern glider it is probably a good idea to add an
>>> additional safety marginÂ
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Gary Stevenson <>> gstev...@bigpond.com>gstev...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Bob,
>>> Good to see you in print again.
>>> Â
>>> For newer members to our sport, Let me say that Bob has “been there
>>> and done that†in reference to most elements of our sport. OOn this
>>> particular aspect of our sport . yep he has  â€ÅÅ“ been there and
>>> done that†too, having looked Death in the eye after he had a nassty
>>> landing discussion with a fence.
>>> Â
>>> Again for newer members, I have attached what is perhaps the seminal
>>> article (1993), on this subject, by a guy named Bruno Gantenbrink, (now
>>> another old fogey). However he was not always an old fogey, and you might
>>> be a bit surprised at some of the tricks he got up to!
>>> Â
>>> I noted Richard Frawley̢۪s one line comment nt with some surprise:
>>> Totally irrelevant here, but it could be the basis of a new thread: However
>>> I expect that this topic has already been done to death, so is not new.
>>> Â
>>> Regards.
>>> Gary
>>> Â
>>> Â
>>> From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On
>>> Behalf Of Bob Ward
>>> Sent: Monday, 29 February 2016 7:43 PM
>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in 

Re: [Aus-soaring] Just Started Gliding? Here are two good books for winter.

[Peter Champness]

Does anyone know when G Dale's second volume might appear.  He has promised
us 3 volumes.  I hope that gets on with 2 and 3 soon, and then publishes
them all in a single volume.

On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 8:16 PM, Richard Frawley 
wrote:

>
> If you have just started to go cross country and are looking for books to
> read over the coming winter then here are two good starters.
>
> G Dale - The Soaring Engine Volume 1 - swiftavionics.com.au
>
> Bernard Eckey - Advanced Soaring Made Easy  - ec...@internode.on.net
>
> Regards
>
> Richard
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Canopy Flarm Antenna

[Peter Champness]

maybe

On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 7:27 PM, Adam Woolley 
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Has anyone got a spare (or two) of the old canopy mounted Flarm antennas
> that they'd be willing to part ways with?
>
>
> SeeYou,
> WPP
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Canopy Flarm Antenna

[Peter Champness]

Why is that?

On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 8:11 PM, Richard Frawley 
wrote:

> they point the wrong way to get good reception. not optimal.
>
>
>
> On 28 Mar 2016, at 7:42 PM, Peter Champness  wrote:
>
> maybe
>
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 7:27 PM, Adam Woolley 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Has anyone got a spare (or two) of the old canopy mounted Flarm antennas
>> that they'd be willing to part ways with?
>>
>>
>> SeeYou,
>> WPP
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Aus-soaring mailing list
>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>
>>
> ___
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> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Canopy Flarm Antenna

[Peter Champness]

Thanks Greg.  That makes sense.

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Greg Wilson  wrote:

> Think of a flat aerial as a double sided satellite dish - it transmits and
> receives towards both of the flat sides, not off the edges. A stick on type
> aerial on the side of the cockpit windscreen will give good reception to
> both sides but minimal ahead or behind. A pole type aerial mounted
> vertically will give reception in 360 degrees provided there are no metal
> objects nearby blocking signal.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 23:06:13 +1100 *Mark Fisher  >* wrote 
>
> Jezuz.. Because they do!
> Checkout some antenna theory.
>
>
> On Monday, 28 March 2016, Peter Champness  wrote:
>
> Why is that?
>
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 8:11 PM, Richard Frawley 
> wrote:
>
> they point the wrong way to get good reception. not optimal.
>
>
>
> On 28 Mar 2016, at 7:42 PM, Peter Champness  wrote:
>
> maybe
>
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 7:27 PM, Adam Woolley 
> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> Has anyone got a spare (or two) of the old canopy mounted Flarm antennas
> that they'd be willing to part ways with?
>
>
> SeeYou,
> WPP
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
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> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
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> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Fisher
> Managing Director
> Swift Performance Equipment
> Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
> Wacol 4076
> Australia
> Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
> Fax: +61 7 36076277
> http://www.spe.com.au/
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Tablet recommendations?

[Peter Champness]

Greg,

Not a tablet, but Malcolm Crampton (Tasman Instruments) has a generic 5
inch pda which has a good bright screnn, runs LK8000 (free) and is good
value for money.

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 9:26 AM, Greg Wilson  wrote:

> Can anyone recommend a bright (daylight) readable tablet for use as nav
> device in a motor-glider?
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 23:06:13 +1100 *Mark Fisher >* wrote 
>
> Jezuz.. Because they do!
> Checkout some antenna theory.
>
>
> On Monday, 28 March 2016, Peter Champness  wrote:
>
> Why is that?
>
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 8:11 PM, Richard Frawley 
> wrote:
>
> they point the wrong way to get good reception. not optimal.
>
>
>
> On 28 Mar 2016, at 7:42 PM, Peter Champness  wrote:
>
> maybe
>
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 7:27 PM, Adam Woolley 
> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> Has anyone got a spare (or two) of the old canopy mounted Flarm antennas
> that they'd be willing to part ways with?
>
>
> SeeYou,
> WPP
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
> ___
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>
>
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> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Fisher
> Managing Director
> Swift Performance Equipment
> Unit 2, 1472 Boundary Rd
> Wacol 4076
> Australia
> Ph:   +61 7 3879 3005
> Fax: +61 7 36076277
> http://www.spe.com.au/
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Fwd: Help, please

[Peter Champness]

http://birdsphotographer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/cheren-barzolet-apus-apus-common-swift-7492_wwwBirdsPhotographerCom__Nikolay-Staykov.jpg

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Future Aviation Pty. Ltd. <
ec...@internode.on.net> wrote:

> Hello all
>
> This is just a quick “THANK YOU” to all fellow pilots who submitted photos
> of soaring birds.
>
> With the exception of Ibises and Swifts I now have sufficient pictures but
> it would be great
> if someone could send me photos of these two species. I have checked out
> various websites
> but photos of sitting birds is not what I’m after.
>
> Many thanks in advance
>
> Bernard
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *Future Aviation Pty. Ltd. 
> *Subject: **[Aus-soaring] Help, please*
> *Date: *6 April 2016 at 7:10:34 AM ACST
> *To: *"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
> *Reply-To: *"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
>
> Good morning all
>
> I’m currently working on a publication with the title: "Soaring Birds -
> friends or foes”.
>
> It would be nice to include pictures and I’m wondering whether members of
> this list
> can contribute nice shots of the following species *in flight:*
>
> a) Eagle
> b) Buzzard
> c) Hawk
> d) Kite
> e) Pelican
> f) Ibis
> g) Swift
>
> If anyone can send me copyright-free shots I would gladly include them
> and, of course,
> properly credit the photographer.
>
> Many thanks in advance!
>
> Bernard Eckey
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] SkySight.io - next generation soaring weather forecast

[Peter Champness]

Can you do Paypal?

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Matthew Scutter 
wrote:

> Hi Paul,
> Thanks for your question.
> SkySighr never handles your credit card details, it connects you directly
> to my payment processor Stripe, which is certified to the most stringent
> security standards. https://stripe.com/docs/security has the technical
> details if wish to check for yourself.
> No charge is made and your details are deleted if you cancel your account
> during the trial period.
> Regards,
> Matthew
> On 10 Apr 2016 9:50 AM, "Paul Mander"  wrote:
>
>> Hello Matthew, and congratulations on your initiative.
>> I'd like to sign up, but when I entered your website it asked for my
>> credit card details and that caused me to retreat..
>> How secure is your site?
>> All the best, Paul Mander
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Matthew Scutter > > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I've recently launched my new subscription-based soaring forecast
>>> service, https://skysight.io/ , featuring:
>>>
>>>- 5+ days forecasting range, so you can plan your weekend from early
>>>in the week, like you're used to with XCSkies.
>>>- Half-hourly time steps through the day, so you can better
>>>understand the evolution of the day, similar to RASP.
>>>- Highly accurate forecasts, moreso than other providers due to very
>>>high resolution forecasting with specialized terrain and land datasets.
>>>- Route planning, giving you a cross section of the weather you'll
>>>fly through each day.
>>>- Clean and fresh user interface, integrating Google Maps overlays
>>>and tablet/mobile support.
>>>
>>> Currently it covers most of QLD, SA, VIC, ACT and NSW, and is expanding
>>> further soon to WA, NT and NZ.
>>>
>>> I've priced it at 12.99$/mo or 99$/yr, with a 14 day trial period during
>>> which you can delete your account and receive no charges.
>>>
>>> I've had it under wraps for a few years and used it to great success at
>>> competitions, in particular JWGC and the last few nationals.
>>> However the improvements I wished to make were become too expensive at
>>> the scale I wished to operate, hence opening it up as a service that we can
>>> all benefit from.
>>>
>>> It is still under active development, feature requests and feedback are
>>> welcome.
>>>
>>> Features already under development include:
>>>
>>>- Automatic text forecasts - get an email/sms midweek with the
>>>weekend forecast for your location.
>>>- Forecasting improvements, to better resolve wave or complex
>>>weather.
>>>- New colour scales - currently familiar as you are likely used to,
>>>but changing soon to something more expressive and granular.
>>>- Alternative plotting regimes, such as showing speckling for the
>>>proportional octas of cumulus.
>>>
>>> Please contact me at matt...@skysight.io if you have any questions,
>>> feature requests or complaints.
>>>
>>> Happy landings,
>>> Matthew Scutter
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] GLIDING INTERNATIONAL - MAY ISSUE

[Peter Champness]

Do you have an article about how Global Warming will guarantee the best
ever soaring conditions in Australia and New Zealand next year?

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:11 PM, John Roake  wrote:

>
> *GLIDING INTERNATIONAL *
>
> *ISSUE MAY 2016 *
>
>
> The May issue goes in the mail as I write and your copy should be with you
> next week. Meantime, we are able to announce that our planned Digital Issue
> starts with this issue on May 10. (The subscription is less than half the
> hard copy airmailed issue which continues as normal).  See our web page for
> details).  The May issue is another great 64 page issue.
>
> •  The May 2016 lead story is on Rieti, Italy’s prime soaring centre and
> the home of numerous world events.  Few are aware that the Rieti airfield
> was once a swamp, and it was drained by the Romans who left a wonderful
> legacy. Continuing administration problems beset the site, which will
> survive regardless of  the many arguments that prevail. An extremely
> interesting story from the pen of Aldo Cernezzi.
>
> •  If you want a considerably less expensive two seat high performance
> trainer, we have the answer for your club.  The Perkoz is almost E40,000
> cheaper than its nearest competitor.  It is a performer too –  Best L/D
> 41:1. A very informative review.
>
> •  Photo and details of the new winglets that can be fitted to the LS8.
>
> •  Paul Remde provides a review of the very latest in soaring aids. As
> informative as  Paul always is.
>
> •  We report on the 2016 Plenary session of the I.G.C. and we update you
> on the latest rules and administrative changes and advances.
>
> •  Markus Geisen reports from Germany on their recent expedition to South
> Africa.  They trialled the ‘InReach” tracker and provide a glowing report
> on its advances over anything yet being used by the gliding fraternity.
>
> •  Schanis Soaring Switzerland has gone upmarket and professional in
> providing motor-gliding training.   Take a Swiss holiday and  add some
> extra qualifications to your log book.
>
> •  A series of photos taken in 1931 showing the building of the Grunau
> Baby in Silesia, a former province of Germany.
>
> •  An in-depth review of the team in the Perlan project showing the
> problems that would be associated with a bailout at 90,000 feet.
> Frightening!
>
> •  Thinking of buying a used sailplane?  You need to read how to avoid the
> traps that could prevail with any such purchase.
>
> •  The world wave flying master from Omarama, Gavin Wills, teaches you how
> to ‘Catch Waves’ and get established more easily.   This feature article is
> a a ‘text  book’ on the subject.
>
>
> •  A test report on the new ASG 29Es by a German professional.  Translated
> from a German article.   He also describes the new motor control system
> perfected by the manufacturers.
>
>   •  Bet your club has one of these.  A 1981 story about a REAL PILOT.  A
> humourous article about the club show-off.
>
>
> • All this plus 30 other stories that will educate and inform.
>
> As we have said before  - our best issue yet!
>
> We hope you will join us.
> JOHN ROAKE
> EDITOR.
>
> NEW (or RENEWING) SUBSCRIBERS CAN EASILY EFFECT A SUBSCRIPTION BY GOING TO
> OUR WEB PAGE – www.glidinginternational.com <
> http://www.glidinginternational.com>
>
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Registration

[Peter Champness]

Thanks Noel,

Very interesting.  That explains a photograph that I saw at the GCV
clubrooms last night which showed my glider GXS (Schneider ES60b Super
Arrow) with a competition mark but no registration letters.

GXS has not flown for a few years.  Gary Sunderland told me that it was
inXS because I parked it in the VMFG hanger for about 2 weeks too long!   I
am intending to complete a survey inspection and fly her again so the
registration is not available.

I have been checking the registration list on the CASA website fairly
recently.  There were  no VH-Gxx  numbers listed.  If there are any I hope
that they would be reserved to the GFA.

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 6:46 PM, Noel Roediger 
wrote:

> Further to Emilis' comments:
>
> DCA did not require Australian gliders and sailplanes to be registered
> until
> about 1954.
>
> Until then - while GFA had to satisfy DCA particular type held a CofA, our
> aircraft were  generally known by their colour. e.g. Golden Grunau, Blue
> Grunau, Silver Olympia, Yellow Witch etc..
>
> One of a type in Aus. were known by their factory designation - Gull,
> Gull1V, Kranich etc..
>
> The first sailplane I can remember with a DCA supplied fire-proof
> registration plate was the ES 49b built by the ASC and that was in late
> 1955.
>
> Similar plates were attached the clubs other aircraft - a Munn Falcon, Gull
> and the Golden Grunau at that time.
>
> No GFA aircraft was required to externally display it registration as other
> powered types were.
>
> Only a few months later SAGA held Australia's fixed site competition at
> Wakerie and sailplanes were required to display a competition number which
> was chosen or allocated.
>
> This method of identification became the norm and continued until the late
> 60's after which it became necessary to display registration letters on the
> fin and under-wing.
>
> Those aircraft registered VH-G-- only needed to display the last two reg.
> letters but when the VH-G ran out all other sailplanes had to display the
> last three letters underwing and because they wouldn't fit at legal size on
> most fin and rudders they are displayed on the rear fuselage.
>
> People requiring a particular VH reg. can either reserve it in the event
> the
> current owner cancelling it or making a financial offer to its holder.
>
> Some years ago the ASC operated a Callair  tug - VH-MPA and a local
> community wished to have that reg. and the reg. was sold for significant
> $'s.
>
> Anyone with a need to know can check VH-G-- on CASA's web site.
>
> Noel.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On
> Behalf
> Of emillis prelgauskas
> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2016 10:57 AM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Registration
>
> A conversation that has never been formally had within the sport is the
> 'value' of an Australian registration.
> From my end, that registration held by an elderly airframe has meant that
> from 1949 onward it has been possible to trace the provenance (a la 'Who do
> you think you are') until the late 1970s when we ran out of VH-G.. and
> began
> to use a variety of intermediate prefixes.
>
> For me it is sad to see an airframe returned to service after a hiatus,
> needing a new registration, thereby losing the continuity.
> Others will pipe in for themselves, about the preference to have a VH-G..
> reallocated ahead of a new intermediate prefix.
> And those who favour monikers ahead of VH-. as their call sign,
> recognition,
> etc.
>
> Emilis
>
>
> On 24 Apr 2016, at 8:28 am, Justin Sinclair 
> wrote:
> > I probably should know this but how do we control registrations.
> > Hackett, Borgelt or Scutter will no how to calculate how many markings
> are
> available starting with G but I suspect that there are many G _ _ that are
> unflown.
> > I guess my question is how many gliders are out there never to fly again
> and do we actively control them.
> > I get that there are many aircraft that are capable of restoration
> however
> surely things like Blaniks and other things hanging from hangar trusses
> that
> will never be flown again can be de-registered back to their serial number
> so that should a miracle happen they can be registered.
> > Justin
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Re: [Aus-soaring] The Golden Age

[Peter Champness]

James,

No I did not understand what Emilis wrote.  But I am interested!

Intervention by Government or DO GOODER PEOPLE is always bad in my
philosophy.  It goes against the interests of the INDIVUAL which should be
the highest principle.  That takes us into  high level philosophy.

I hope that this will find some resonance with gliding people, who are very
likely independent thinkers.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 8:57 PM, James McDowall 
wrote:

> Emilis,
> I understood what you wrote but did anyone else? After years of working in
> the building industry and experiencing first hand post bushfire bureaucracy
> I have come to the conclusion that "affordable housing" is a confusion in
> terms. The stringencies of the ABCB, however well intentioned are driving
> up building costs. There is a lesson here for all forms of recreational
> aviation.
> Jim
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 9:50 AM, emillis prelgauskas <
> emi...@emilis.sa.on.net> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Gary,
>> I fully concur that memory adds rose to the glasses.
>>
>> I am drilling a bit deeper, based on my fire ground and court work.
>> In all fields of activity, there are prescriptive rules  and these are
>> vehemently applied
>> and defended by some.
>> In many fields of activity it has since been demonstrated that ‘one size
>> fits all’
>> creates more problems than it solves.
>> That doesn’t stop the ‘fixed rules’ crowd from trying to forget about
>> alternate solutions.
>>
>> fire ground example: “No, you can’t build a new replacement home where
>> your existing home was burnt
>> down by the bushfire; because the rules have changed and we don’t permit
>> that sort of thing now”.
>>
>> In these fields the primacy of good human outcomes results in ‘alternate
>> solutions’ which can then be applied:
>> “The new build will have a shelter to ABCB guidelines, fire resistant
>> construction to AS3959 and siting
>> maintenance/fire fighting capability to Minister’s Spec SA78 - i.e. this
>> is permitted.”
>>
>> Gliding is still travelling down that path of recognising that better
>> outcomes come from a baseline of
>> prescriptive ‘deemed-to-satisfy’ provisions with higher order alternate
>> solutions above this.
>> (The Building Code of Australia categorises 3 such layers in its
>> industry, with ‘expert judgement’
>> at the top of the pyramid.)
>>
>> Emilis
>>
>>
>> On 24 Apr 2016, at 9:11 pm, Gary Stevenson  wrote:
>> > Emilis, on consideration, I do not entirely agree with your recent
>> comments.
>> > Golden ages live in our memories, but (fortunately/unfortunately),
>> memories
>> > are fallable. In any case, all that you refer has passed ..for ever.
>> >
>> > As always, NOW is the time to seize the moment
>> >
>> > Let me suggest to you and to everyone else who is a member of this
>> forum,
>> > that the reality of gliding in Australia today  right now .. is
>> that
>> > we are living in an era WHERE THIS IT IS AS GOOD AS IT IS EVER GOING TO
>> GET.
>> >
>> > THIS is the golden age.
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Another efficient form of transport!

[Peter Champness]

The Flying Car at last!

Surprisingly that car was relatively stable in the air environment.

This one less so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm_pLW4ymEk

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Texler, Michael <
michael.tex...@health.wa.gov.au> wrote:

> Combines some discussion threads about parachutes and efficient modes of
> transport:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMxXHY1f8Xk
>
> Love the phugoids
>
> Also other aviators trying for Darwin awards!
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpf25ytZ2w8
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] The Golden Age

[Peter Champness]

As I understand it, Chris Thorpe's annual spin edict is based on accident
stats indicating stall spin at low altitude is the cause of many fatal
accidents.  Almost all such incidents result in impact with the ground.

The Level One instructor refresher course spent some time on the spin entry
and recovery.  The spin entry is designed to show how a spin can occur from
an apparently almost normal attitude, hence the importance of *Safe Speed
Near the Ground*.  Spin recovery is to practice recognition of the spin
onset and rapid recovery using correct technique.

That seems like a prudent policy.  The more practice at a safe altitude the
better.

A club should not have to buy a Puchacz, just to do annual spin checks.
Plenty of clubs have spinable gliders.  Pilots could travel to a suitable
club to get their spin training and annual spin check

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> Very nice defence of never trying to make anything better.
>
> There are people looking at gliding in Australia (for every participant
> there are approximately  non participants) trying to make it simpler,
> cheaper and more accessible.
>
> Unfortunately the control group are doing their best to do the opposite.
> I've heard of one club actually buying a Puchacz to fulfill Chris Thorpe's
> stupid annual spin edict.
>
> You would have to be utterly stupid or have no regard for your safety to
> spin one of those, especially under the circumstances in it will be done in
> the average gliding club.
>
> For the other gliders which require whiskers or tail ballast to spin, what
> message do you think that subtly sends to people?
>
> Mike
>
>
> At 09:35 AM 5/6/2016, you wrote:
>
> Â
> Very well said Gary! Nice to read something positive an uplifting on this
> list. I don't often feel the need to reply to messages I read here, but
> your email made me smile. Life is what you make of it, the fact we are
> able to take part in this crazy sport of ours means we are the lucky ones!
> We shouldn't forget it.
>
> Time spent sitting in front of a keyboard talking about how good it all
> used to be is time wasted. There's a weekend approaching. Get out there and
> make the most of it. I certainly will be :-)
>
> Best Regards to all
>
> Tom W
>
>
> 
>
> Emilis, on consideration, I do not entirely agree with your recent
> comments.
> Golden ages live in our memories, but (fortunately/unfortunately), memories
> are fallable. In any case, all that you refer has passed ..for ever.
>
> As always, NOW is the time to seize the moment
>
> Let me suggest to you and to everyone else who is a member of this forum,
> that the reality of gliding in Australia today  right now .. is
> that
> we are living in an era WHERE THIS IT IS AS GOOD AS IT IS EVER GOING TO
> GET.
>
> THIS is the golden age.
>
> So I suggest, ENJOY, ENJOY, ENJOY, whilst you still can.
>
> Regards,
> Gary
>
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> www.borgeltinstruments.com
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> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
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Re: [Aus-soaring] spinning

[Peter Champness]

Thanks Mike,

A considered response.

This is a relevant and difficult problem.  Stall Spin accidents are
sporadic and fairly uncommon but are still happening.

You mentioned Maurice Little.  There has been another very recent
accident.

Neither occurred during training.  What is the best way to prevent those
accidents?

On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> At 01:52 PM 5/9/2016, you wrote:
>
> "I would never, ever get into a Puchacz to spin it, especially off a winch
> launch. We need to retain all the pilots we have."
>
> Here we go again, lets get into the the Puch, to be honest I would not get
> into a Puch and spin of a 900 ft winch either, but that does not mean I
> would not do it at an altitude that allows me to recover by 1000 ft.Â
>
>
>
>  Quite a number of people around the world  have done that and NOT managed
> to recover. One experienced instructor, flying with another, shared his
> Puch spin recovery experience with us here. Another experienced instructor
> was happy to spin it until one day it didn't immediately recover. BTW what
> are you going to when it is passing through 1000 feet and hasn't recovered?
>
>
> Does anyone has any stats on how many fatalities there were in Australia
> in Puch spin training accidents? It would be nice to have some data before
> we go and sully the Puch reputation.
>
>
>
> I know of at least one in the UK after reading a despairing Brit's
> critique of BGA spin training after a 15 year old student was killed in a
> Puch. Also one instance of two bad injuries after the instructor, a former
> CFI, spun herself and student  into the ground in one . Then there was
> Maurie Little and student at Ararat. It seems GFA instructors spin in just
> as much as anyone.
>
>
> Personally I am much happier spinning Puch than K21 with 12 KG of lead
> attached to its tail.
>
>
>
> Personally I think the Puch should be placarded against intentional
> spinning. I wouldn't ever spin one. Interesting that on a check flight in
> NZ in one the instructor didn't want a spin, just a stall.
> I wouldn't spin any glider that had been jiggered so it would spin  with
> extra tail ballast or aerodynamic cripples to make it spin.
>
> It is called risk management. Don't take avoidable risks and always
> balance risk against quantifiable benefit.
>
> I'm not aware of ANY data that suggest spin training actually prevents
> people from spinning in when the spin is entered inadvertently at low
> altitude. The USA gave up compulsory spins in about 1947 for private
> certificates for that reason. Smart instructors had the student do the
> spins solo for the checkride and observed from the ground (see Scott
> Crossfield's book "Always Another Dawn"). The Canadians gave it up about 50
> years later when they found, in a similar aviation culture and environment
> to the US, the spin in stats were no better for licensed pilots and they
> were killing students and instructors teaching and practicing spins. They
> couldn't in all conscience continue with the requirement.
>
> I personally do believe you should know how to recover from a spin. An
> hour in a two seat Pitts or Decathlon with a proper aerobatics instructor
> will do it nicely. You'll learn more about spins in that hour than in a
> lifetime of flying gliders. Wear parachutes, start the spins at 10,000 feet
> and have a decision height where you'll bail out.
>
> Ridding people of the "just pull the stick back" reaction is probably
> better served by unusual attitude recovery training. Probably better done
> in an  aerobatic powered aircraft also so as to minimise the risk of
> overstressing or breaking the aircraft.
>
> All the talk here about safe speed near the ground etc etc misses the real
> issue. DON'T STALL THE GLIDER INADVERTENTLY. Speed has little to do with
> it. It is about  ANGLE OF ATTACK which is controlled by the pilot by how
> far  he or she PULLS THE STICK BACK. So DON'T PULL IT BACK SO FAR. (the
> despairing Brit mentioned earlier had the same message)
>
> Compulsory spinning every year is a lot of risk exposure for dubious to
> zero benefit on the accidental spin in stats. It will no doubt cause some
> people to simply give up gliding.
>
> Chris Thorpe's stats are spurious. I'm not a statistician but I know when
> comparing rates of relatively rare events you must be very careful when
> making assertions about significance. Thorpe simply took raw numbers over
> two 25 year periods without correcting for numbers of participants, hours
> flown and other possible confounding factors. Not impressive. Such is the
> quality of the decision making in the GFA control group. More about
> covering THEIR backsides than protecting you.
>
> Lastly, if you or anyone else wants to spin for practice, be my guest. Go
> to it.  That isn't the issue. The issue is whether experienced pilots who
> believe intentional spinning is a an avoidable risk they do not wish to
> take, should be COE

Re: [Aus-soaring] Pik 20 tailwheel axle removal

[Peter Champness]

Roger,

I agree that BM is a significant resource airfield.  If it should become as
significant as Moorabbin then triple runways will be considered, not just
parallel runways.  If that is what the council hopes for then I see little
future for gliding  in the long term.  Bill Gates apparently said that
everyone over estimates the changes in the short term (2 years) but under
estimates the changes in the long term (10 years).

Therefore I think that we should be taking a 10 year view.  I feel that if
we have not acquired a new airfield which we own in 10 years Gliding at BM
will have shrunk from the current levels.

However it would be premature to do anything until the consultants bring
down their report.

On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 11:05 PM, Roger.D  wrote:

> Dear Noel
>
> Apologies for lack of reply to your earlier email.  The situation is very
> diifficult because of the possibilites with big money starting to influence
> things.  Basically we haven't thought ahead with sufficient vision because
> the head lease situation with Council was working OK.  But times change and
> the flying school run by the Dows has ben sold mid last year to two younger
> people who have money and the potential ability to expand the business in
> various ways, or bring on other businesses (the sort of song Council wishes
> to hear)..  Essentially Bacchus Marsh Aerodrome is such a significant
> aerodrome resource in the Melbourne Basin being capable of development to
> close to Moorabbin status given enough investment.  Council pushes for more
> employment given that the area hasn't huge industry. A Master Plan is being
> done by consultants who are reasonably savvy.  The clubs are respected by
> them and they have made provisions for gliding into the future to a degree
> by suggesting the only realistic long term possibility namely paralle
> dedictaed runway strips.  But still the business case in terms of the cost
> of duplicating runways vis a vis return on investment is weak.  This leaves
> no real half way house.
>
> It seems to me from my distant vantage point here, that the situation is
> not like Gawler where Parafield Airport acts as General Aviation hub south
> of Gawler and soaks up GA demand leaving Gawler less in demand re GA
> activity.
>
> The issues here are:
>
> 1. We don't own the aerodrome.
>
> 2. The head lease is due for application by the management group to
> Council in December 2016 for the exercise of the right to the further term
> of 25 years (Dec 2016 to 2043).  Council must grant that extension provided
> we apply in the nominated time frame and are not in breach of the lease,
> but they act like they have righst to some renegotiation of the terms at
> that time.
>
> 3. The 80 acres just north of the aerodrome has been bought by an aviation
> person with significant money plus a clear understanding of the excessive
> rents levied on operators at Moorabbin Airport which makes a selling point.
>
> 4. What happens if I get runover by a tram or similar. Too much depends on
> me keeping the management group together and functional.
>
> It is like riding a bucking bronco and trying not to get thrown off.
>
> Kindest regards to Beverley and yourself.
>
> Roger
>
> On 11/06/2016 10:26 PM, Noel Roediger wrote:
>
> Dear Roger.
>
>
>
> Some time ago Brett Iggulden gave me a hammer that would suit your actions
> and it is a favourite tool of mine.
>
>
>
> The head is a lump of shaped aluminium (about 2.1/2 lbs) bonded onto a
> steel tube handle.
>
>
>
> You can belt the daylights out of any harder material without evidence.
>
>
>
> What is happening re. council and BM airfield?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Noel
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] *On Behalf Of *Roger.D
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 11, 2016 1:51 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Pik 20 tailwheel axle removal
>
>
>
> Dear James,
>
> Not sure if the following helps, but one issue in general with tailwheel
> axles is that it is possible to bend them on very hard tailwheel
> touchdowns, or landing touch down just before the lip between the low
> surface of the runway gravel and the start of the bitumen seal.  Bent axles
> can be hard to remove.  May in worst case have to cut through on both sides
> of wheel.  I know about the issue with the step at the runway bitumen
> commencement as I experienced this at Corowa with my Duo Discus.  Then we
> have had one instance with club Duo Discus of axle bending slightly due
> hard landing but just succeeded in getting it out without cutting. (I won't
> admit to any excessive use of a hammer  but )
>
> RegardsRoger Druce
>
>
>
> On 11/06/2016 1:48 PM, james dutschke wrote:
>
> Hi.
>
> Im looking to fix a slow leak in a tailwheel on my pik.
>
> Is there a trick to getting the axle out once the split pin and nut have
> come out?
>
> Cheers
> James
>
>
>
>
> ___

Re: [Aus-soaring] GLIDING INTERNATIONAL - JULY ISSUE

[Peter Champness]

Excellent.

I am looking forward to reading it.

Is there an update on Climate Change?

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 2:31 PM, John Roake  wrote:

>
> *GLIDING INTERNATIONAL *
>
> *ISSUE JULY 2016 *
>
>
> The July issue is in the mail and should be with subscribers within the
> next few days.  The hundreds that have subscribed to the new Digital issue
> will get their copy in their email box on July 4.  (We have been
> overwhelmed by the response to the newly announced Digital issue. The
> Digital subscription is half the price of the airmailed printed issue that
> continues as normal).  See our web page for details.  The July issue is
> another great 64 page issue.
>
> •  The July 2016 lead story is on the Schempp-Hirth family, a 12 page
> treatise on the history of the firm, their founders and their future.
> Profusely illustrated it is indeed extremely interesting with hither to
> previously unknown facts. It is a ”must read” for owners of Schempp-Hirth
> sailplanes.
>
> • NASA has been spending millions on wing profile research and have
> announced that they could have found ways and means of reducing drag by
> 11%. Another must read.
>
> •  Adam Czeladzki, a Polish pilot who became a paraplegic after a
> sailplane accident decided that somehow he would continue to be a
> competition pilot. He elected to contact Jonker Sailplanes of South
> Africa.  The imagination of Adam and Jonkers has produced a sailplane with
> revolutionary flight controls now used in competitions.  A fascinating
> story – well illustrated.  Adam now continues to be a winner!
>
> •  Aldo Cernezzi provides a comprehensive report on Aero 2016 at
> Friedrichshafen.,  A number of new sailplanes announced and on show.
>
> •  A report on the first drone to hit a commercial airliner. We said it
> could happen!
>
> •  There were six fatal gliding accidents in May.  We are now researching
> and reporting on accidents worldwide.  This issue contains details of 22
> accidents recorded in the month of May.
>
> •  Markus Geisen reports from Germany about the restrictions in Europe on
> the crewing of two-seaters in competitions.  Maybe there are the same
> deterrents in your country.  A study of the situation warrants a read of
> what he has to say.
>
> •  A research paper on the weight of water in clouds.  This will leave you
> spell bound.
>
> •  Do you have air-sickness problems in your club?  Fred Robinson tells
> you how to solve this problem
>
> • A story by Val Brain tells our older glider pilots that ‘Ageing Does
> Have Its Compensations.”
>
> •  The Perlan project will soon leave for South America.  Did you know
> that the project to date has spent over $7 million.
>
> •  We talk about a two seat motor glider that costs $1.00 an hour to
> operate.
>
> •  DLR (The German Aerospace Research Centre) has built an exact replica
> of Lilienthal’s last glider from the original plans.  It has been tested in
> a special wind tunnel and the results raise an eyebrow or two.
>
> •  We reproduce a photo of a Polish tow plane towing six two seaters line
> astern.
>
> •   Karol Staryszak, a Polish champion records his thoughts after leaning
> of the death of a compatriot in a competition they were both competing in.
> This is the most compelling story we believe we have reproduced in our 10
> year history.  It should be read by every glider pilot, everywhere.
>
> •  Stemme has changed ownership again and the new owners have updated the
> S10 with a new version labelled the S12.
>
> • All this plus 30 other stories that will educate and inform.
>
> As we have said before  - our best issue yet!
>
> We hope you will join us.
> JOHN ROAKE
> EDITOR.
>
> NEW (or RENEWING) SUBSCRIBERS CAN EASILY EFFECT A SUBSCRIPTION BY GOING TO
> OUR WEB PAGE – www.glidinginternational.com <
> http://www.glidinginternational.com>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] autopilots, cheating

[Peter Champness]

"Gliding ain't what it used to be. "

Spot on Mike.

After your devastating analysis is it any wonder that Vintage Gliding is
becoming more popular?

Fortunately there are still some skills required.  You still have to land
your glider successfully.

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 5:50 PM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> Depends how you define it and what level of help you consider cheating.
>
> We already have total energy (automatically removes effects of pilot
> induced airspeed changes aka "stick thermals" so you don't do this mentally.
>
> We have netto which removes the effect of glider sink rates at different
> speeds so you don't have to estimate this.
>
> Speed command - a simple push or pull to fly at the correct speed instead
> of tables or MacCready rings
>
> A final glide computer.
>
> Wind estimation algorithms instead of estimating wind speed and direction
> from drift in thermals , drift of clouds, smoke and dust etc.
>
> GPS to eliminate navigation as a task or skill required to fly well. It
> also eliminates the old skill of going around turnpoints efficiently. The
> real rot started there BTW. The Danes seriously suggested at IGC level to
> ban GPS in gliders around 1991.
>
> It, along with all other radio navigation aids, was in fact banned in
> contests until the IGC allowed it.
>
> So we will now have an AI  with a terrain map, meteorological data and
> task  to generate likely best paths through the air and generate steering
> commands.
>
> I'm not sure of the virtue of a pilot being a wetware or meat servo to
> move the controls and center the yaw string. An automatic yaw string
> centering autopilot is pretty simple.
>
> Likewise move the flaps automatically to be in the right setting for the
> airspeed and g load (already done in the Duckhawk IIRC). Then connect the
> elevator to the speed command and tune the ride for hard or soft just like
> was done in the F-111.
>
> I guess we could leave the pilot with a small rotary knob to adjust the
> heading in response to the AI recommendations and how seriously the pilot
> regards them.
>
> Gliding ain't what it used to be.
>
> I think it will decline to be of interest to a very small number of people
> as a relic of the paleo aviation era.
>
> The future is likely to be small aircraft which take off and land
> vertically using distributed electric motors for that and a small piston
> engine for cruise with large amounts of electronics(oh a cube 10cm on a
> side I'd guess would be a large enclosure) and very few piloting skills
> required. Automatic traffic de-confliction. Will beat the hell out of cars
> for any serious distance. A number of companies are working on this
> including one mob that have a somewhat popular internet search engine.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  At 04:54 PM 6/29/2016, you wrote:
>
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_00AE_01D1D226.E2DB5430"
> Content-Language: en-au
>
> It might sound a little esoteric to some but in my opinion, cheating is
> not winning...
>
> _
>
>
>
> * Ross McLean   From:* Aus-soaring [
> mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] *On Behalf Of *Mike Borgelt
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 29 June 2016 12:42 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] (no subject)
>
> How are they going to tell? Even if there are no autopilot servos the AI
> in the PNA will be advising the optimum flight path, in its opinion.
>
> It will be interesting scrutinising the software in your flight computer.
>
> Mike
>
>
> At 09:32 AM 6/29/2016, you wrote:
>
> I note that the new Stemme S12 comes with an autopilot. We're very close
> to autonomous full-scale gliders.
> Are we going to be allowed to use autopilots in competitions? I look
> forward to the IGC minutes on this one ;)
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Mike Borgelt <
> mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:
> Wonder what this could do in a glider?
>
> http://www.newsweek.com/artificial-intelligence-raspberry-pi-pilot-ai-475291
> Mike
>
> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring
> instrumentation since 1978
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:Â <Â> Â  07 4635 5784Â Â Â Â Â overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â :Â  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
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> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
> ___
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> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
> *Borgelt Instruments *-
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 57

Re: [Aus-soaring] (no subject)

[Peter Champness]

The first cheat was supposed to be Robert Kronfield.  Apparently he put a
Vario instrument in his panel for the 1928 competition without telling any
of the other competition pilots about it.

"According to Martin Simons (Sailplanes: 1920-1945):.
- Robert Kronfeld was the first to use a vario in competition (in
  the Rhongeist) in August, 1928 and made the first intentional
  thermal-assisted xc competition flight".

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Ross McLean  wrote:

> It might sound a little esoteric to some but in my opinion, cheating is
> not winning...
>
>
>
>
> _
>
>  *Ross McLean*
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
> Behalf Of *Mike Borgelt
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 29 June 2016 12:42 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] (no subject)
>
>
>
> How are they going to tell? Even if there are no autopilot servos the AI
> in the PNA will be advising the optimum flight path, in its opinion.
>
> It will be interesting scrutinising the software in your flight computer.
>
> Mike
>
>
> At 09:32 AM 6/29/2016, you wrote:
>
> I note that the new Stemme S12 comes with an autopilot. We're very close
> to autonomous full-scale gliders.
> Are we going to be allowed to use autopilots in competitions? I look
> forward to the IGC minutes on this one ;)
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Mike Borgelt <
> mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:
>
> Wonder what this could do in a glider?
>
>
> http://www.newsweek.com/artificial-intelligence-raspberry-pi-pilot-ai-475291
>
> Mike
>
> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring
> instrumentation since 1978
>
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
>
> tel:Â <Â> Â  07 4635 5784Â Â Â Â Â overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
>
> mob: 042835 5784Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â :Â  int+61-42835 5784
>
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
> ___
>
> Aus-soaring mailing list
>
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
> ___
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> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
> *Borgelt Instruments *-
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978*
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] weather data

[Peter Champness]

I can access Himawari satellite photos on the BOM website but only the
previous 3 hours.

Does anyone know how to go back to get images published say 4-8 hours ago
or even previous days.

Himawari 8 satellite images are a huge advance of the previous images and
now we can see wave clouds easily and almost in real time which is
fantastic.  it would be nice to review old images so as t=o check on
predictions based on the forecats.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> Lots of wave in the wake of the fronts from the other day. Strong south
> westerlies combined with the low off the southern NSW coast. See current
> Himawari 8 pix.
>
> Now a question for Matthew Scutter or any other IT folks:
>
> How difficult to take the downloaded Himawari 8 satellite photos updated
> every ten minutes and superimpose your task and current position on them?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> *Borgelt Instruments* -
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
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>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] autopilots, cheating

[Peter Champness]

Thanks Mike,

Incredible!  I have had the opportunity to see Frigate birds on the Ashmore
Islands years ago, long before it was realised that thermals occur over the
sea.

Now they even fly in clouds and sleep on the wings and stay aloft for weeks
at a time..

My only disappointment with the video was that the makers had to bring in
Climate Change once again.

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

>
> You can fly for long times cross country by using thermals. Who knew?
>
> http://phys.org/news/2016-07-great-frigate-birds-months.html
>
>
> Surprising they say the birds fly INSIDE clouds using the thermals. They
> aren't meant to be able to do this I thought. (See Philip Wills - Where No
> Birds Fly)
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> *Borgelt Instruments* -
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Certificate of Airworthiness

[Peter Champness]

All the older gliders should have had their C of A renewed.  The new C of A
is indefinite, subject to annual Form 2 and surveys as required.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:52 PM, Christopher McDonnell <
wommamuku...@bigpond.com> wrote:

> My original C of A (1964) for GQG (proto ES 60) states: “ Period of
> validity: Three years subject to GFA  annual inspection.”  There is a later
> ‘indefinite one’ issued 1994.
> There seems to be a long period where it’s C of A status is unclear in my
> paperwork.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> *From:* Jo Pocklington 
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 14, 2016 2:02 PM
> *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
> 
> *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Certificate of Airworthiness
>
>
> A note to check Certificate of Airworthiness for older gliders.  Those
> issued around the 1970/80s had a 20 year expiry date – could present an
> insurance complication if not renewed and current ? regards Tony Tabart
>
> --
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Winter Viewing

[Peter Champness]

Thanks Anthony,

Gosh, that was impressive, and worth watching more than once.

Miles Gore Brown, are you there?  Your presented a fascinating talk to the
Seminar at the Australian  Institute of Sport last year about flying near
thunderstorms.  GFA has lost your presentation.  Do you have a power point
or something you could share.  I would live to go over it again.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Anthony Smith <
anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net> wrote:

> Another thunderstorm movie from the USA:  ‘Vorticity’
>
>
>
> https://vimeo.com/mikeolbinski
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Simulators?

[Peter Champness]

I do not think it is the right time to rush out and buy a bunch of
simulators from France just yet.  I would rather see the GFA invest some
money in the existing simulators and attempt to get some objective and
evidence based information from them.

DMcD pointed out that very different opinions were expressed about the
value of simulators.

I think that some parts of the gliding syllabus can be taught on simulators
and the initial effort should be to identify those parts and test the
outcomes both on students and instructors.  That might not take very long.

I had 15 minutes on the Benalla simulator during a recent Instructors
refresher course.  It was not very structured and we tried out a few
things.  That me helped to develop some interest in the role for training
 Maybe another seminar/s could be held at Benalla/Keepit , using
instructors to work on the modules and objectives.

There is also the issue of basic desk top computer sims vs realistic but
expensive glider fuselage based sims.  That assessment can occur in
parallel.  No point in spending a lot of money if a cheap unit can do a
similar job.

The problem of teaching bad habits at an early stage also comes in.  That
might be where the real flying steps in.

Thanks Justin for starting this off.

On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Justin Couch  wrote:

> Pretty good summary of the weekend's discussions everywhere.
>
>
> On 21/07/2016 4:25 PM, DMcD wrote:
>
>> Could anyone from that club comment on how useful their simulator has
 been for training etc?

>>>
>> During the simulator seminar, two comments (at least were made…)
>>
>> There had been no difference in time to solo with students who used the
>> sim and…
>>
>> A US instructor who used sim training remotely (i.e. he was often in a
>> different state to the student) had got students solo within 7
>> flights.
>>
>> glidercfi.com
>>
>> Justin Crouch showed a French initiative where they had a national
>> program to build and operate simulators which was very well thought
>> out. However, these appear to be only just coming on line and they may
>> not yet have results.
>>
>> All that being said, the feeling that came out of the seminar fairly
>> strongly (at least to my ears) was that simulators were coming for a
>> host of different reasons and we had to learn to learn with them. The
>> questions appeared to be, who was doing the learning… instructors,
>> students or AFIs and what type of sim would it be, VR or screen or
>> both.
>>
>> And finally, Keepit and some other clubs are in a different position
>> to less fortunate clubs from the south and north. Conditions allow
>> flying almost all year round so the need for a sim may not be so
>> great.
>>
>> That being said, it was noted at the seminar that having a sim near
>> major population centres would allow it to be used in the evenings and
>> at times when people did not want the drive to a club, however close.
>>
>> There were many persuasive arguments and considering that the cost of
>> buying the French model is not far off the cost of a Blanik or two,
>> it's difficult to say no, at least until some experience is had.
>>
>> See Justin for the facts on the French version. Simulator training
>> appears to be to some extent mandatory in French courses…
>>
>> 4 weeks package "objectif solo"
>>
>> The 4 Weeks Package objective is to fully train the student for
>> soloing his glider by the end of the 4 weeks.
>>
>> The 4 Weeks Package includes : club membership, basic FFVV
>> license/insurance, glider handbook, flight logbook, up to 40 winch
>> launches, 20 hours of glider flight instruction, 5 hours of glider
>> ground simulator training, and 3 hours of dual control motor-glider
>> flight, to totaling up to 21 hours accompanied by an instructor.
>>
>> D
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>>
>
> --
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> Java 3D Graphics Informationhttp://www.j3d.org/
> LinkedIn http://au.linkedin.com/in/justincouch/
> G+   WetMorgoth
> ---
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>  Turn it or move it, and a new set of arrangements appears... is it
>  a single light or many lights, lights that one must know how to
>  distinguish, recognise and appreciate? Is it one light with many
>  frames or one frame for many lights?"  -Subcomandante Marcos
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Re: [Aus-soaring] More on wing boards

[Peter Champness]

Thanks,
Interesting.  I am interested to find out what happens if the rider falls
off during an aerotow at a low altitude!

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:32 AM, Anthony Smith <
anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net> wrote:

> http://www.gizmag.com/wingboard-wind-tunnel-testing/44468/
>
>
>
> Doesn’t involve gliders, but Pawnee’s get a mention….
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Fw: Nigel's omission

[Peter Champness]

GFA could award Nigel next year.  Maybe no one nominated him!

On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 7:46 PM, Bob Ward  wrote:

>
>
>
> I seldom post on this site but feel strongly that Nigel Andrews has
> essentially been insulted by Harry’s award. As Harry pointed out, the
> associated comments in the announcement were correct. Harry did finance the
> development of Aus Flarm when he had confidence that Nigel was on to
> something very significant for the movement. Harry certainly deserves his
> award for backing something so significant. However I am somewhat ashamed
> that the GFA, an association of which I have been a member for 50 years,
> chose to award Harry for his contribution , while ignoring Nigel’s even
> more significant contribution.
> Would not a joint award of that prestigious award have been more
> appropriate?
>
> Bob Ward
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Aerofly 2 in VR

[Peter Champness]

I am at Lake Keepit at present.  They have a very nice looking simulator
based on an IS28 Fuselage.
Does anyone have any questions which I could ask the local instructors.

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Mark Newton  wrote:

> On 10 Sep 2016, at 7:02 PM, Tom Wilksch 
> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately there are no glider specific launch options as yet, so you
> have to start in the air. This is still a pre-release sim though, so that
> may well change.
>
>
> 
> If you have no glider-specific launch methods and you’re starting in the
> air, it’s post-release.
> 
>
> :-)
>
>   - mark
>
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] [gfaforum] DIana 2

[Peter Champness]

What new battery technology is that?

On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 5:57 PM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> There is also a GP15 15 meter version under construction. Same fuselage as
> the 13.5 M version. Nicer looking than the Diana 2.
> The wing sure looks similar to that on a Diana 2 but with winglets. The
> 13.5 M version wing weighs 31 Kg each side. Easy to rig by one person.
> The 15M looks to be a seriously good competition glider with a very wide
> wing loading range. Electric self launch too. (Fully retractable, not the
> silly FES).
> A welcome change from the trend to making gliders converge on the B-52.
> There is some new battery tech on the horizon too which will mean a
> 10Kw-hour battery weighs only 25 Kg. Allegedly will be safer than current
> Li-ion tech too. This should be enough for a launch and subsequent climb of
> at least 8000 feet.
> However will the sport cope with all self launching gliders?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 04:52 PM 9/17/2016, you wrote:
>
> The glider Ron is referring to, is the GP14 Velo http://www.gpgliders.com/
> , which is still under construction as far as I know, and nothing to do
> with the Diana 2.
>
> The Diana 2 is type certified, as of last year.
> https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/TCDS_A_451_
> SZD-56_Diana_issue_02.pdf
> The 13.5m Diana 2 "Versus" exists and is almost certainly the best 13.5m
> glider.
>
> Beres Bogumił, the man behind the Diana 2 passed away earlier in the year.
> What happened after that is a bit murky, but my understanding is the
> assets were sold to SZD (there's multiple SZD's, it's confusing), who is
> once again producing the Diana 2, and *allegedly* producing one with a
> fuselage that has lower angle of attack on the ground, and an 18m stretch.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Tom & Kerrie Claffey <
> tom.ker...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nope,
> The Versus (13.5M experimental version of Diana2) was flown by Stefano
> Giorgio who won the first 13.5M WGC in it. The glider Sebastian was going
> to fly, but they ran out of time, is a different, all new glider.Â
> Since then the 13.5 M class is supposed to go electric self launch.
> I think the 15M Diana 2 is soon out of the WGC due to time from prototype
> to certification.Â
> (There is some limit)
> Having seen a few of them I would not own one, talk to Mak.
>
> Tom
> ...
>
> On Saturday, 17 September 2016, Ron Sanders  wrote:
> Hey guys out there,
>
> Anyone know what is happening with the Diana 2 these days??
>
> Last i heard was  a 13.5 metre version was gonna be flown by Sebastian
> Kawa at some GP thing and it didn't make it.
>
> Ron
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] [gfaforum] DIana 2

[Peter Champness]

Any  good links?
I found a schematic diagram which indicates that the motor has a pusher
folding prop.  Not sure how it retracts and fits in the fuselage with the
blades sticking up?

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 6:46 PM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> Yes, Matt.
>
> Mainly that the limited diameter of the prop limits prop efficiency. In
> the chain Battery->motor->prop-> useful thrust,  prop efficiency is the
> single largest loss. You'll get around 50% at the power/diameter/airspeeds
> we are dealing with here. More blades aren't necessarily better.
> I'm no fan of sustainers. For a little extra trouble make the damn thing
> self launching.
> I am a little surprised at the willingness of glider pilots to accept ANY
> performance loss from the FES though. BTW a TE probe typically causes about
> 0.7% of the drag at 100 KIAS on a 400 Kg modern glider.
>
> The Peszke GP glider designer has his views on the matter and has made it
> clear where he stands as the GP series self launchers have retractable
> propulsion units. Having seen video of it in action I wouldn't expect any
> trouble. Seems to take about 4 seconds to extend and retract. Given the
> number of manufacturers making linear actuators in all sorts of sizes I
> doubt there is a generic problem with them. Seems to be that both Peszke
> and FES get their motor/controller/battery tech from the same source.
> Yes there is a drag penalty for the extended engine on a pylon. With
> proper design it can be minimised (I'd close the doors with the engine
> extended). The FES drag penalty in powered flight is more subtle. To
> produce thrust the air has to be accelerated through the prop. Now VERY
> APPROXIMATELY we are talking around 1.4 times the flight velocity which
> gives twice the drag and this air passes over the entire fuselage, wing
> root, fin and probably part of the tailplane, though at reduced velocity
> for the latter. With the retractable pusher of the Peszke system, only over
> the fin and tailplane.
> Interestingly both the Peszke designer and the FES designers come from a
> model aircraft R/C glider background. As does the electric propulsion tech.
>
> A few other considerations:
>
> The system appears to weigh 40 Kg. Better have motor glider or turbo wings
> on the glider as it is all non lifting parts. Probably not an issue with
> recent gliders as I suspect all of them are built with the stronger wings
> to prevent embarrassing mistakes. They do seem to have learned about
> Murphy's Law since the Libelle aileron drives were designed.
>
> You can bet some idle idiot will try to unfold a prop blade on the
> ground.  Will this be OK or will it cause a problem? The TOP certainly
> could have a problem if ONE of the three blades was manually opened. Two
> simultaneously was OK.
>
> What happened to the Australia required nose release? Only self launch on
> lightweight gliders so you'll need a tow.
>
> From the website: "Cell manufacturer claims that at discharging with 1C
> rating (horizontal flight) life expectancy of batteries is around 1500
> cycles. After that the battery will still have 80% of the original
> capacity" . At full power they are pulling 200 amps, around 5C., not 1C.
>
> DO remove the batteries for charging and put them where the house/hangar
> etc won't burn down if things go wrong. The R/C people have burned down a
> few houses and I heard of one near new VW Transporter carrying models where
> batteries were being charged and it had to stop, be abandoned and burned to
> the ground.
>
>
> I do agree with Richard Frawley that outlanding sucks for many reasons.
> After 62 real ones in farmers' fields I've had enough. Mr Lycoming willing,
> there won't be any more. Besides with the consolidation of agribusinesses,
> agricultural quarantines (remember the foot and mouth outbreak in the UK
> where cross country gliding was banned for a season?), foreign ownership
> and contamination issues with GM crops you may find that the "social
> licence" for outlanding will go away(as much as I hate that term).
>
> Mike
>
>
> At 09:31 PM 9/19/2016, you wrote:
>
> I think what Mike was referring to was not the drag of the blades in
> gliding flight but the efficiency of the nose-mounted propellor in climb.
> Reliability through simplicity is definitely a factor, but the FES is not
> much good if you want to self-launch (prop clearance).
>
> *Borgelt Instruments* -
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] electric self launch

[Peter Champness]

Very nice.  Rapid extension and retract.  I have seen that motor somewhere
before.

I did like the large access panel to the motor compartment.  Not sure how
they maintain adequate strength in that area.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:25 PM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> At 07:04 PM 9/20/2016, you wrote:
>
> Any  good links?
> I found a schematic diagram which indicates that the motor has a pusher
> folding prop.  Not sure how it retracts and fits in the fuselage with the
> blades sticking up?
>
>
>
> Here you go: http://www.gpgliders.info/technik/ Scroll down to the
> videos. They took quite a while to load here. The link seems slow.
> Sheer bloody genius I think.
>
> Mike
>
> *Borgelt Instruments* -
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] [gfaforum] DIana 2

[Peter Champness]

thanks

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:13 PM, Matthew Gage 
wrote:

> The pylon raises from the back of the bay. The motor pivots on the pylon
> so the thrust axis is always horizontal.
>
> See https://www.facebook.com/gpgliders/videos for a number of clips of
> the motor in action.
>
>
> On 20 Sep 2016, at 19:04 , Peter Champness  wrote:
>
> Any  good links?
> I found a schematic diagram which indicates that the motor has a pusher
> folding prop.  Not sure how it retracts and fits in the fuselage with the
> blades sticking up?
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 6:46 PM, Mike Borgelt <
> mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, Matt.
>>
>> Mainly that the limited diameter of the prop limits prop efficiency. In
>> the chain Battery->motor->prop-> useful thrust,  prop efficiency is the
>> single largest loss. You'll get around 50% at the power/diameter/airspeeds
>> we are dealing with here. More blades aren't necessarily better.
>> I'm no fan of sustainers. For a little extra trouble make the damn thing
>> self launching.
>> I am a little surprised at the willingness of glider pilots to accept ANY
>> performance loss from the FES though. BTW a TE probe typically causes about
>> 0.7% of the drag at 100 KIAS on a 400 Kg modern glider.
>>
>> The Peszke GP glider designer has his views on the matter and has made it
>> clear where he stands as the GP series self launchers have retractable
>> propulsion units. Having seen video of it in action I wouldn't expect any
>> trouble. Seems to take about 4 seconds to extend and retract. Given the
>> number of manufacturers making linear actuators in all sorts of sizes I
>> doubt there is a generic problem with them. Seems to be that both Peszke
>> and FES get their motor/controller/battery tech from the same source.
>> Yes there is a drag penalty for the extended engine on a pylon. With
>> proper design it can be minimised (I'd close the doors with the engine
>> extended). The FES drag penalty in powered flight is more subtle. To
>> produce thrust the air has to be accelerated through the prop. Now VERY
>> APPROXIMATELY we are talking around 1.4 times the flight velocity which
>> gives twice the drag and this air passes over the entire fuselage, wing
>> root, fin and probably part of the tailplane, though at reduced velocity
>> for the latter. With the retractable pusher of the Peszke system, only over
>> the fin and tailplane.
>> Interestingly both the Peszke designer and the FES designers come from a
>> model aircraft R/C glider background. As does the electric propulsion tech.
>>
>> A few other considerations:
>>
>> The system appears to weigh 40 Kg. Better have motor glider or turbo
>> wings on the glider as it is all non lifting parts. Probably not an issue
>> with recent gliders as I suspect all of them are built with the stronger
>> wings to prevent embarrassing mistakes. They do seem to have learned about
>> Murphy's Law since the Libelle aileron drives were designed.
>>
>> You can bet some idle idiot will try to unfold a prop blade on the
>> ground.  Will this be OK or will it cause a problem? The TOP certainly
>> could have a problem if ONE of the three blades was manually opened. Two
>> simultaneously was OK.
>>
>> What happened to the Australia required nose release? Only self launch on
>> lightweight gliders so you'll need a tow.
>>
>> From the website: "Cell manufacturer claims that at discharging with 1C
>> rating (horizontal flight) life expectancy of batteries is around 1500
>> cycles. After that the battery will still have 80% of the original
>> capacity" . At full power they are pulling 200 amps, around 5C., not 1C.
>>
>> DO remove the batteries for charging and put them where the house/hangar
>> etc won't burn down if things go wrong. The R/C people have burned down a
>> few houses and I heard of one near new VW Transporter carrying models where
>> batteries were being charged and it had to stop, be abandoned and burned to
>> the ground.
>>
>>
>> I do agree with Richard Frawley that outlanding sucks for many reasons.
>> After 62 real ones in farmers' fields I've had enough. Mr Lycoming willing,
>> there won't be any more. Besides with the consolidation of agribusinesses,
>> agricultural quarantines (remember the foot and mouth outbreak in the UK
>> where cross country gliding was banned for a season?), foreign ownership
>> and contamination issues with GM crops you may find that the "social
>> licence" for outlanding wi

Re: [Aus-soaring] Interesting way to advertise a Ute.

[Peter Champness]

Maybe it does say something about gliding!  Old and Bold and still thrill
seeking, even as we are about to drop off the twig.

Tow out technique was interesting.  Would it work with no pilot on board.
may be put a bit of brake on to prevent over run.

On Sat, Oct 1, 2016 at 7:04 PM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> Notice that the glider was being flown by an old fart. The ute driver was
> young bloke. Does this say something about gliding?
> I've long suspected the VW engineers have some glider pilots amongst them.
> The Golf has a high rated towing capacity.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> At 06:21 PM 10/1/2016, you wrote:
>
> yeah, i have flown passed there in a Janus!!
>
> it is pretty steep for sure.
>
> Ron
>
> On 1 October 2016 at 17:16, Derek  wrote:
>
> Meh. I’ve spent hours sipping hot chocolate and watching aircraft arrive
> and depart on that runway. It’s very steep. You could roll a glider to
> the lip of that runway and push it over the edge and it would be able to
> take off.
>
> Good drama and camera work though J
>
> Â
>
> From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] On Behalf Of Future Aviation
> Pty. Ltd.
> Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2016 2:50 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Interesting way to advertise a Ute.
>
> Â
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GTX6S8q7x8&sns=em
>
> Nice glider and a challenging runway.
>
> Thanks, Nige!
>
> Â
>
> Kind regards to all!
>
> Â
>
> Bernard Â
>
> Â
>
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>
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> *Borgelt Instruments* -
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] New weather prediction site for Victoria and Tasmania

[Peter Champness]

Looks Good Matt,

How can I get rid of the road labelling eg C233 etc?

Blue cast is a bit dismal.  Can you revise the colours down the scale so
4000 ft is say yellow.  The scale does not really have to go to 17,000ft
unless your program predicts wave.  Does it predict wave?

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 3:47 PM, Matthew Gage 
wrote:

> These are also available from the following urls, which are better to use
> if possible:
> http://vicmet.gliding.asn.au/VIC/
> http://vicmet.gliding.asn.au/TAS/
>
>
> On 14 Oct 2016, at 13:20 , Matthew Gage  wrote:
>
> Thanks to the VSA for providing funding for a server, we now have a new
> Soaring Forecast site for Victoria and Tasmania.
>
> It’s available at:
> http://vicmet.knightschallenge.com/VIC
> http://vicmet.knightschallenge.com/TAS
>
>
>
> For those interested in details, this is closely related to RASP.
>
> Instead of using WRF version 2 for generating the core model, this is
> using version 3.8.1 (from August 2016) and intend to upgrade every 6 months
> as a new version is released. This hopefully should prevent the predictions
> becoming less and less accurate over time.
>
> The images are created using the existing DrJack RASP software. These are
> overlaid on google maps using software based on that created by Paul Scorer
> in the UK.
>
> New forecasts are created twice each day for 6 days. The first 2 days are
> at a very high resolution (good for wave, etc), the following 4 days are at
> a lower resolution (but still higher than the previous RASP). Today’s
> forecast should be ready by about 7:30am and in the evening, Tomorrow’s
> forecast should be ready by 7:30pm.
>
> The server will keep about 100 days of historical forecasts, depending on
> available disk space.
>
>
> Matt Gage
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Re: [Aus-soaring] New weather prediction site for Victoria and Tasmania

[Peter Champness]

Mathew,

Somehow when I was playing around with the RASP and looking a few days
ahead I managed to open a LogPskewT (stuve) diagram.  Can you tell me how
to get that again?  Which location is it for?

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Bernie Baer  wrote:

> Great job Matt!
>
> Matt has done a lot of work in setting this up; I know because I have been
> working on a RaspGM site for Northern NSW based on the RASP/WRF 3.6.1/Paul
> Scorer (RaspGM) code also.
> It is currently still a work in progress but will be up and running for the
> Narromine Cup / NSW State Titles in late November. The resolution is 3.6Km
> so not quite as high as Matt's
> 2Km resolution maps. The VIC maps and this one overlap.  Thanks to Paul
> Scorer and Dr Jack Glendinning.
>
> See https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/nswraspgm/RASPtableGM.html
>
> Regards, Bernie.
>
>
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 13:20:51 +1100
> From: Matthew Gage 
> To: Aus Soaring 
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] New weather prediction site for Victoria and
> Tasmania
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Thanks to the VSA for providing funding for a server, we now have a new
> Soaring Forecast site for Victoria and Tasmania.
>
> It?s available at:
> http://vicmet.knightschallenge.com/VIC
> http://vicmet.knightschallenge.com/TAS
>
>
>
> For those interested in details, this is closely related to RASP.
>
> Instead of using WRF version 2 for generating the core model, this is using
> version 3.8.1 (from August 2016) and intend to upgrade every 6 months as a
> new version is released. This hopefully should prevent the predictions
> becoming less and less accurate over time.
>
> The images are created using the existing DrJack RASP software. These are
> overlaid on google maps using software based on that created by Paul Scorer
> in the UK.
>
> New forecasts are created twice each day for 6 days. The first 2 days are
> at
> a very high resolution (good for wave, etc), the following 4 days are at a
> lower resolution (but still higher than the previous RASP). Today?s
> forecast
> should be ready by about 7:30am and in the evening, Tomorrow?s forecast
> should be ready by 7:30pm.
>
> The server will keep about 100 days of historical forecasts, depending on
> available disk space.
>
>
> Matt Gage
>
> --
>
>
> These are also available from the following urls, which are better to use
> if
> possible:
> http://vicmet.gliding.asn.au/VIC/
> 
> http://vicmet.gliding.asn.au/TAS/
> 
>
> Database: 4664/13206 - Release Date: 10/13/16
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Microair servicing - Is it still a thing?

[Peter Champness]

Thanks Ian,

I had thought that I might build my own radio harness, but I looked at the
work involved and the problems of purchasing all the parts and decided to
buy your harness and boom microphone.

I am glad that I did that.  I have no trouble at all.  Cost reasonable or
even very reasonable.

On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Ian Mc Phee  wrote:

> Sad really about several aviation makers at Bundaberg.
>
> 12 years ago I chose to go the Xcom way as Microair no longer wanted my
> microphones.  Anyhow have sold over 150 Xcoms since and have been extremely
> reliable to the extent I cushion any Xcom repair costs needed in year 3, 4
> and 5 by paying 50% of a repair bill.  So far I have not had to pay out
> which tells a story to the reliability. There have been 2 faults  shown up
> soon manufacture but I just bring in radio in and have a coffee while part
> is changed. 2 others chose not to get my harness and then had the dreaded
> whistle on transmit.
>
> Biggest issue I have had is a repaired broken back glider and nobody
> checked the aerial wire and yet another showed up last week.   If you
> suspect this to be an issue please ask for a loan of my Ukraine aerial
> scanner which is independent of any radio.
>
> Finally poor quality wire from battery to panel causes a serious voltage
> drop on xmit at the panel - any radio brand.  Please use suggest aviation
> wire 18gauge (suggest 16gauge in 2 seater).
>
> I did not sell any of the Xcoms used in JS1 but would really wish the
> Jonkers would read the instructions (think they are all fixed now). Gr.
>
> And for record yesterday I made serial no 2700 AE flex boom mic some in
> mining but most in gliding around the world.
>
> Ian McPhee
> 0428847642
> Box 657 Byron Bay NSW 2481
> On 24 Oct 2016 2:36 pm, "Grant Davies"  wrote:
>
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> Funny you should say that, I live in Bundaberg where Microair are.
>>
>> Dropped my radio in last week as it has no volume control, stuck on full
>> noise.
>>
>> Told there will be a three week wait.
>>
>> They don't make the radios anymore and only have an interest in in-flight
>> entertainment. Most of the staff have gone to Sydney. So no techs left here.
>>
>> I managed to get a hold of someone but he turns out to be their on-call
>> tech, only working 2 days a week.
>>
>> So answer is a kind of yes but on the proviso of time.
>>
>> I am considering a new radio.
>>
>> Kindest Regards
>> Grant
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On
>> Behalf Of Mark Newton
>> Sent: Monday, 24 October 2016 13:13
>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
>> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Microair servicing - Is it still a thing?
>>
>> Back in April, with an intermittent fault on an Microair T2000SFL
>> transponder, I contacted Microair and Scott told me that he was expecting
>> new main boards in about six weeks.
>>
>> Contacting them again now, I’m informed that they’ll have upgrade kids in
>> February 2017.
>>
>> Color me skeptical.
>>
>> Does anyone know if Microair still retain the capability to maintain any
>> of the products they’ve sold?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>   - mark
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Waikerie

[Peter Champness]

I compete at the very lowest level.  But that is still a lot more that Mike
Borgelt (these days).

My 2cents worth is that there might be something to be learned at the daily
briefing.  A lot of pilots have already looked at the linked web sites but
they still turn up.

Another benefit is that everyone has been briefed (assuming they attend the
daily briefing).

Thirdly there is often operational information (duty runway, landing
instructions, commercial traffic etc, which is delivered at the daily
briefing)

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 4:08 PM, james dutschke 
wrote:

> Mike,
>
> Due to the importance of the safety aspect of a daily briefing at a comp I
> think it may be unwise to go fully electronic for the daily brief. There is
> a certain amount of presence and weighting that can only be achieved via
> face to face contact. Not that Im regular a comp pilot but I don't think id
> like to see the morning brief go entirely. Perhaps components like the
> weather could be slimmer with readily available tools, like Matthew
> Scutters amazing weather forecasting program,(https://skysight.io/).
> WPP's winning videos on Facebook are way too entertaining to miss anyways.
>
> My 0.5c - with a shameless plug included for free.
>
> James.
>
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 11:40 AM, Mike Borgelt <
> mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:
>
>> Matt,
>>
>> My sister teaches online courses in English as Second Language. Maybe you
>> should take one?
>>
>> Seriously, the morning briefing disrupts the preparation of the glider
>> for the day and turns what is usually a long day into a longer one.
>> The organisers must prepare the material anyway which largely, as far as
>> weather is concerned, is simply a bunch of links to various websites.
>> A simple summary of why the particular task has been set and the actual
>> task description plus any safety considerations/social notices  can be
>> simply put on a website and the time this will happen be notified. An email
>> list could even be created so people are notified (or a text message sent).
>> This then serves the double purpose of notifying the contestants and
>> anyone else interested and saves everyone's time. All forms of aviation
>> including gliding are now heavily internet based so I'm not sure what he
>> physical presence of everyone in one place every day (probably still want
>> an initial brief on the practice day), before flying, achieves.
>> Social activities can still be around the bar after flying, including
>> awards for daily wins.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> At 01:17 PM 11/12/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> nice of you to volunteer to handle publishing tasks and info for the comp.
>>
>>
>> Or you could look here - https://www.livetrack24.com/events/waik2016
>>
>> No idea if they are actually flying though.
>>
>>
>> On 12 Nov 2016, at 12:32 , Mike Borgelt < mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dunno, but maybe they ought to give up on physically getting together for
>> briefing and simply post the required information on a webpage. That way
>> everyone can know what is happening.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> At 11:00 AM 11/12/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> what are they doing TODAY??
>>
>> ron
>>
>> On 12 November 2016 at 11:57, Mike Borgelt <
>> mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote: Anthony,
>> The storms weren't just through Adelaide. Quite extensive areas through
>> the Riverland.
>> Mike
>> At 10:17 AM 11/12/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> As far as I know gliders were derigged and in trailers or hangars.  The
>> storm came from the NW and continued to the SE, so Waikerie did not see the
>> same storm as Adelaide. Â I was at Elizabeth and we only had relatively
>> small hail except at the end of the storm where I heard a couple of big
>> hail stones shattering on the roof. Enough for me to put some neoprene
>> sheet over the car in the hope that it would soften the impacts. Â Justine
>> was at home and collected a sample of the hailstones that hit Adelaide –
>> much larger.  See attached.  Anthony  From: Aus-soaring [
>> mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
>> ] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent:
>> Saturday, 12 November 2016 10:19 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to
>> Soaring in Australia. < aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> Subject: Re:
>> [Aus-soaring] Waikerie Â
>> Anyone know what happened at Waikerie yesterday. Pretty bad TSs went
>> through SA yesterday.
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring
>> instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel:Â <%C3%82> Â
>> 07 4635 5784Â Â Â Â  overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784Â Â Â
>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  :Â  int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba
>> East, QLD 4350, Australia
>> ___ Aus-soaring mailing list
>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/lis
>> tinfo/aus-soaring
>>
>> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring
>> instrumentation since 1978 www.borg

Re: [Aus-soaring] Eagle attacks

[Peter Champness]

Any reports of damage from Pelican attacks?

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 8:35 PM, Noel Roediger 
wrote:

> All of you will have experienced acceptance, rejection or even attack by
> creatures you’ve approached or neared – be it a dog, cat, bird or reptile.
>
>
>
> Why?
>
>
>
> You tell me.
>
>
>
> If you are attacked by a Wedge-tail, or any other creature, it’s simply
> because *it doesn’t like you.* (mating/breeding season and area
> protection is not a cause)
>
>
>
> The only bird you may soar with, in Aus, that can cause a catastrophe is
> the Australian Pelican.
>
>
>
> Without malice – but rather from fear - it dives vertically if it’s
> disturbed during flight and that’s where we, as soaring pilots are most
> exposed as we generally enter a thermal below them.
>
>
>
> Noel.
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] *On Behalf Of *Angus Stewart
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 13, 2016 11:22 AM
> *To:* aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Eagle attacks
>
>
>
> Just saw this article from WA -
>
>
>
> https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/32876540/bird-strike-forces-glider-
> emergency/
>
>
>
> Pilot very lucky to get out of that with only minor injuries and a broken
> canopy.
>
>
>
> Anyone else got some interesting eagle attack stories?
>
>
>
> /Gus
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Eagle attacks

[Peter Champness]

Thanks for your second response.  I was unaware of the incidents you
describe.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 9:53 PM, Noel Roediger 
wrote:

> For those interested – and who have read my previous statement “pelicans
> do not attack”  - you may recall a pelican took out a RAAF F-111.
>
>
>
> It didn’t attack but just dived from fear and hit the F-111 cockpit with
> catastrophic result.
>
>
>
> The closest I’ve ever come to being killed in an aircraft I was flying due
> to a bird strike occurred when returning to Parafield in a C404 . and as we
> passed over “Pelican Point” power station a pelican dived between the
> minimal square formed by the stbd. fuse., L/E, engine cowl and prop.
>
>
>
> Noel.
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
> Behalf Of *Peter Champness
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2016 8:21 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Eagle attacks
>
>
>
> Any reports of damage from Pelican attacks?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 8:35 PM, Noel Roediger 
> wrote:
>
> All of you will have experienced acceptance, rejection or even attack by
> creatures you’ve approached or neared – be it a dog, cat, bird or reptile.
>
>
>
> Why?
>
>
>
> You tell me.
>
>
>
> If you are attacked by a Wedge-tail, or any other creature, it’s simply
> because *it doesn’t like you.* (mating/breeding season and area
> protection is not a cause)
>
>
>
> The only bird you may soar with, in Aus, that can cause a catastrophe is
> the Australian Pelican.
>
>
>
> Without malice – but rather from fear - it dives vertically if it’s
> disturbed during flight and that’s where we, as soaring pilots are most
> exposed as we generally enter a thermal below them.
>
>
>
> Noel.
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] *On Behalf Of *Angus Stewart
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 13, 2016 11:22 AM
> *To:* aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Eagle attacks
>
>
>
> Just saw this article from WA -
>
>
>
> https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/32876540/bird-strike-forces-glider-
> emergency/
>
>
>
> Pilot very lucky to get out of that with only minor injuries and a broken
> canopy.
>
>
>
> Anyone else got some interesting eagle attack stories?
>
>
>
> /Gus
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Himawari - 8 images etc

[Peter Champness]

Thanks

On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> You can open the images in two windows and put them side by side. Only
> problem with the Japanese site is you can't over lay anything other than
> the coast, or at least I haven't been able to find out how to do it.
>
> I just looked and you'll find lots more interesting fine detail on the
> Japanese higher resolution images.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> At 12:24 PM 11/25/2016, you wrote:
>
> This site has Himawari - 8 images at higher resolution than the BoM
> provides. Cheaped out on the resolution  BoM? I guess they spent the money
> on global warming research.
>
> http://himawari8.nict.go.jp/
>
> For another example of outstanding government research organisation
> competence see: http://spacenews.com/esa-mars-lander-crash-caused-by-1-
> second-inertial-measurement-error/
> Read, weep for European taxpayers knowing that nobody will be fired. Who
> did they get to do the software, the local high school coding class?
>
> Unbelievable.
>
> I wonder if Airbus software people do any better?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> *Borgelt Instruments* -
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
> ___
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> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
> *Borgelt Instruments* -
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Himawari - 8 images etc

[Peter Champness]

I have not found how to play the Japanese images as a video loop.  Perhaps
that is the reason the BOM have reduced the resolution of the images so
they will load quicker.

On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Peter Champness 
wrote:

> Thanks
>
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Mike Borgelt <
> mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:
>
>> You can open the images in two windows and put them side by side. Only
>> problem with the Japanese site is you can't over lay anything other than
>> the coast, or at least I haven't been able to find out how to do it.
>>
>> I just looked and you'll find lots more interesting fine detail on the
>> Japanese higher resolution images.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 12:24 PM 11/25/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> This site has Himawari - 8 images at higher resolution than the BoM
>> provides. Cheaped out on the resolution  BoM? I guess they spent the money
>> on global warming research.
>>
>> http://himawari8.nict.go.jp/
>>
>> For another example of outstanding government research organisation
>> competence see: http://spacenews.com/esa-mars-
>> lander-crash-caused-by-1-second-inertial-measurement-error/
>> Read, weep for European taxpayers knowing that nobody will be fired. Who
>> did they get to do the software, the local high school coding class?
>>
>> Unbelievable.
>>
>> I wonder if Airbus software people do any better?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Borgelt Instruments* -
>> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *
>> www.borgeltinstruments.com
>> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
>> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>> ___
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>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>
>> *Borgelt Instruments* -
>> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *
>> www.borgeltinstruments.com
>> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
>> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>>
>> ___
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>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Pik 20 Water bags

[Peter Champness]

Thanks James,

Could you contact me off list.
plchampn...@gmail.com

On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 9:43 AM, james dutschke 
wrote:

> Hi all.
>
> I have a set of new and unused Pik 20 Bags I had made by CE Bartletts
> surplus to requirements.
>
> If any PIK drivers are after a set please contact me offline.
>
> Dimensions are 3m long and about 35cm wide with a 20mm fitting for the
> main drain and a 7mm fitting for the vent at the outboard end.
>
> Cheers
>
> James.
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Astir CS hatch wanted

[Peter Champness]

Chris Trewern would probably make you one.

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 6:31 AM, Justin Couch  wrote:

> Unfortunately our club's Astir hatch disappeared mid-flight yesterday due
> to insufficient use of tape. Anyone have a spare that they'd like to part
> with?
>
> --
> Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/
> Java 3D Graphics Informationhttp://www.j3d.org/
> LinkedIn http://au.linkedin.com/in/justincouch/
> G+   WetMorgoth
> ---
> "Look through the lens, and the light breaks down into many lights.
>  Turn it or move it, and a new set of arrangements appears... is it
>  a single light or many lights, lights that one must know how to
>  distinguish, recognise and appreciate? Is it one light with many
>  frames or one frame for many lights?"  -Subcomandante Marcos
> ---
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Junior Life extension to 12,000 hrs

[Peter Champness]

Well I think that is excellent news, especially if you own an SZD Junior.
Also it may be extended to other gliders (in time) for our general benefit.

I might point out that owners of the SZD 32A (Foka 5) are exempted from 10
year surveys ( the reason being that the annual survey is rather extensive).

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Justin Couch  wrote:

> Noticed the following news item on the PZL Swindik page about the Junior.
> Quick summary is life is now allowed to 12,000 hours and greatly reduced
> maintenance schedule - no more 50hrlys etc, and instead of 1000hr surveys,
> it is now 1500 hrs. This will probably cause a temp conflict with AD403,
> but I expect that to get sorted out pretty quickly.
>
> http://szd.com.pl/en/infos/79
>
> I've sent an email to PZL asking for the paperwork on behalf of my club
> last night. No response yet.
>
> --
> Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/
> Java 3D Graphics Informationhttp://www.j3d.org/
> LinkedIn http://au.linkedin.com/in/justincouch/
> G+   WetMorgoth
> ---
> "Look through the lens, and the light breaks down into many lights.
>  Turn it or move it, and a new set of arrangements appears... is it
>  a single light or many lights, lights that one must know how to
>  distinguish, recognise and appreciate? Is it one light with many
>  frames or one frame for many lights?"  -Subcomandante Marcos
> ---
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Flarm odd error message help requested

[Peter Champness]

What is a UART?

On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 4:23 PM, Richard Frawley 
wrote:

> The UART’s on old Flarms tend to die over time. No idea why. But a lot of
> flarms have been subjected to high temps
>
> Check the RJ45 socket and cable as well…they are easily abused over time.
>
> If you have the means to look at the serial output of the Flarm on your PC
> (using USB to serial and terminal software (I use coolterm), its pretty
> easy to see if its corrupt or intermittent
>
> I guess I have seem more than 10 units like that in the last 3 years
>
> Richard
> Swift Avionics
>
>
>
>
> > On 24 Dec 2016, at 4:06 pm, Justin Couch  wrote:
> >
> > My club's gliders have a collection of OzFlarms in them - a separate box
> from the display with GPS, Aerial and serial connectors. The display is the
> original FlarmLED with the 4 status indicators on the left.  About 4 months
> ago one Flarm started becoming inconsistent in its outputs. Some days it
> would work, others nothing at all. Then about a month ago, it started
> working consistently but now has the display blinking an error that I
> cannot find described in the manuals. Then a week ago, a second Flarm is
> now displaying the same output.. All the other identical systems work as
> normal
> >
> > The display has the power LED constant green. The other three LEDs -
> GPS, Tx, Rx all flash synchronously together at about a 1Hz frequency.
> >
> > Software is current on all of them, and they are transmitting fine.
> FlarmTrackers/OGN and other aircraft pick up their signal. Nothing is
> showing on the display other than the status LEDs.
> >
> > Any suggestions on what might be wrong?
> >
> > --
> > Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/
> > Java 3D Graphics Informationhttp://www.j3d.org/
> > LinkedIn http://au.linkedin.com/in/justincouch/
> > G+   WetMorgoth
> > ---
> > "Look through the lens, and the light breaks down into many lights.
> > Turn it or move it, and a new set of arrangements appears... is it
> > a single light or many lights, lights that one must know how to
> > distinguish, recognise and appreciate? Is it one light with many
> > frames or one frame for many lights?"  -Subcomandante Marcos
> > ---
> > ___
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> > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Flarm odd error message help requested

[Peter Champness]

Thanks all,

Replies vary from condescending to supercilious to ridiculous.  None the
less I am a bit wiser.

Universal Asynchonous Receiver Transmitter for those who were afraid to ask.

On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Erich Wittstock  wrote:

> Was just a spelling mistake.
> He mean to write "thou art"
>
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Richard Frawley 
> wrote:
>
>> google it
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24 Dec 2016, at 6:43 pm, Mike Borgelt 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Google is your friend.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> At 05:38 PM 12/24/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> What is a UART?
>>
>> *Borgelt Instruments* -
>> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *
>> www.borgeltinstruments.com
>> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
>> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>> ___
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>>
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Flarm odd error message help requested

[Peter Champness]

Many thanks Richard for your generosity.

Take you pick from list above.

Happy Christmas.

On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 7:55 PM, Richard Frawley 
wrote:

> now you have experience in using google, well done
>
> On 24 Dec 2016, at 7:08 PM, Peter Champness  wrote:
>
> Thanks all,
>
> Replies vary from condescending to supercilious to ridiculous.  None the
> less I am a bit wiser.
>
> Universal Asynchonous Receiver Transmitter for those who were afraid to
> ask.
>
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Erich Wittstock 
> wrote:
>
>> Was just a spelling mistake.
>> He mean to write "thou art"
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Richard Frawley 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> google it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24 Dec 2016, at 6:43 pm, Mike Borgelt >> om> wrote:
>>>
>>> Google is your friend.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> At 05:38 PM 12/24/2016, you wrote:
>>>
>>> What is a UART?
>>>
>>> *Borgelt Instruments* -
>>> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *
>>> www.borgeltinstruments.com
>>> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
>>> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
>>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>>> ___
>>> Aus-soaring mailing list
>>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] JS3s arr Benalla

[Peter Champness]

Can some one post some  photos?

On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Ian Mc Phee  wrote:

> About now the truck with two JS3s arr Benalla after leaving RSA a few days
> ago on Qantas freight B747-400. There is a nice sign on the side of the
> box. No trailers!!
>
> So will be interesting to see if it is really the head of its class in
> performance.
>
> If it were Asia you just pay a bribe,  if it were USA you just pay a tip
> but in Australia you never ever accept NO then finally somebody high up the
> food chain says YES, then it is on its way.  Total Qantas bill $22k but
> with extras cost was about $15k per glider to Benalla.
>
> In the good old days of 1976 Finland world comps Qantas gave air tickets
> for sponsorship and GMH provided Opel cars also free.
>
> Ian McPhee
> 0428847642
> Box 657 Byron Bay NSW 2481
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] accommodation available Benalla for World Comps

[Peter Champness]

If I go to Benalla for a day during the comp can I get a security pass?

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 9:13 AM, Adam Woolley  wrote:

> Security passes, it's pretty standard at a WGC - I've been to three & have
> three at home. Naturally helps with many things, more so for the gliding
> people & the locals (police too) - there's a lot of strange people in town,
> allows others to identify who's there for the gliding & who's there for
> what ever other reason..!
>
> Good for the local businesses too to see that the WGC people are spending
> in their town & being rewarded for their possible sponsorship.
>
>
> Cheers,
> WPP
>
>
>
> On 4 Jan. 2017, at 06:59, Mike Borgelt 
> wrote:
>
> What's the story on security passes?
>
>
> Mike
>
> At 07:36 AM 1/4/2017, you wrote:
>
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_000A_01D26665.B275CB80"
> Content-Language: en-au
>
> Hi Jo
> We plan to arrive about 6 or 7pm Friday after landing at Wangaratta and
> getting a rental car.
> We are staying at the Comfort Inn.
> I am not sure about the evening dinner, so we?ll see when we get there.
> Hope that our security passes will be ready. I got the automatic email
> response, but have heard nothing more.
> Regards
> Pam
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] *On Behalf Of *Jo Pocklington
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 January 2017 7:47 AM
> *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' <
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
> *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] accommodation available Benalla for World Comps
>
> Anyone needing accommodation during the World Comps at Benalla, contact
> Jane Rushworth   janerushwo...@westnet.com
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
> *Borgelt Instruments* -
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> <+61%207%204635%205784>
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
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>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] accommodation available Benalla for World Comps

[Peter Champness]

What category did you choose?

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Anthony Smith <
anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net> wrote:

> The security pass form is not immediately obvious.   Allegedly it was a
> last minute requirement from the Benalla Council and Victoria Police.
>
>
>
> I filled in the form and submitted the passport style photo here:
>
>
>
> http://www.worldgliding2017.com.au/index.php/registration-form-all-types
>
>
>
> It has already been pointed out about the lack of categories for
> non-participants.
>
>
>
> I understand that this is necessary to gain access to ‘airside’.
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
> Behalf Of *Mike Borgelt
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 January 2017 9:12 AM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. <
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] accommodation available Benalla for World
> Comps
>
>
>
> OK so where's the link so you can get one? I tried the website, can't find
> it.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> At 08:13 AM 1/4/2017, you wrote:
>
> Content-Language: en-AU
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>  boundary="_000_SG2PR04MB16788BDAB4BCDFED4A9C9
> 4F8A26E0SG2PR04MB1678apcp_"
>
> Security passes, it's pretty standard at a WGC - I've been to three & have
> three at home. Naturally helps with many things, more so for the gliding
> people & the locals (police too) - there's a lot of strange people in town,
> allows others to identify who's there for the gliding & who's there for
> what ever other reason..!
>
> Good for the local businesses too to see that the WGC people are spending
> in their town & being rewarded for their possible sponsorship.
>
>
> Cheers,
> WPP
>
>
>
> On 4 Jan. 2017, at 06:59, Mike Borgelt < mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> What's the story on security passes?
>
>
> Mike
>
> At 07:36 AM 1/4/2017, you wrote:
>
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_000A_01D26665.B275CB80"
> Content-Language: en-au
>
> Hi Jo
> We plan to arrive about 6 or 7pm Friday after landing at Wangaratta and
> getting a rental car.
> We are staying at the Comfort Inn.
> I am not sure about the evening dinner, so we?ll see when we get there.
> Hope that our security passes will be ready. I got the automatic email
> response, but have heard nothing more.
> Regards
> Pam
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] *On Behalf Of *Jo Pocklington
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 January 2017 7:47 AM
> *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' <
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
> *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] accommodation available Benalla for World Comps
>
> Anyone needing accommodation during the World Comps at Benalla, contact
> Jane Rushworth   janerushwo...@westnet.com
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
> *Borgelt Instruments *-
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978*
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> <+61%207%204635%205784>
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
> *Borgelt Instruments *-
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978*
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> <+61%207%204635%205784>
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
> ___
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> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] accommodation available Benalla for World Comps

[Peter Champness]

Thanks Anthony,

Some of the OSTIV Conferences have had the the papers bound up for later
reading.  I hope that that can happen this time, at least papers published
online.  I would much rather read the paper that watch a video.

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 9:35 PM, Anthony Smith  wrote:

> I doubt it.
>
>
>
> The late great John Ashford was the Australian representative for OSTIV.
>
>
>
> I am not aware of a replacement decision as yet.  I believe Murray
> Stimson (I haven’t met him) has been named as a potential replacement.  I
> stuck my hand up as well.
>
>
>
> I can attempt to video the presentations and then put them onto YouTube,
> but that is the limit of my abilities in that area.
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
> Behalf Of *Mike Borgelt
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 January 2017 2:22 PM
>
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. <
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] accommodation available Benalla for World
> Comps
>
>
>
> Thanks , Anthony.
>
> I don't suppose anyone thought to livestream the OSTIV sessions? Record
> audio for later podcast?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> At 11:09 AM 1/4/2017, you wrote:
>
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_0008_01D2667F.47125830"
> Content-Language: en-au
>
> Mike
>
> I honestly don’t know.  I am not involved in the organisation of the
> event.  I just jumped through the hoops to get access.
>
> I have heard a bit through the grape vine but, as always with the
> grapevine, there may be some mistruth in what is going around.
>
> I suspect the saying about fighting the alligators when draining the swamp
> is pretty true for the organisers right now.
>
> Anthony
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] *On Behalf Of *Mike Borgelt
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 January 2017 11:07 AM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. <
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] accommodation available Benalla for World
> Comps
>
> Anthony,
>
> Are there different levels of access? Many of us already have ASICs.
> Any word on where this database goes after the contest?
> Vicpol? The folks who couldn't be bothered taking the complaint from the
> tradie after he stopped someone from burning down a servo because there was
> no damage and nobody was hurt.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> At 09:31 AM 1/4/2017, you wrote:
>
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>
>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_0033_01D26671.92BF16A0"
>
> Content-Language: en-au
>
> The security pass form is not immediately obvious.   Allegedly it was a
> last minute requirement from the Benalla Council and Victoria Police.
>
>
>
> I filled in the form and submitted the passport style photo here:
>
>
>
> http://www.worldgliding2017.com.au/index.php/registration-form-all-types
>
>
>
> It has already been pointed out about the lack of categories for
> non-participants.
>
>
>
> I understand that this is necessary to gain access to ‘airside’.
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
> From: Aus-soaring [ 
> mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt
>
> Sent: Wednesday, 4 January 2017 9:12 AM
>
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. <
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
>
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] accommodation available Benalla for World Comps
>
>
>
> OK so where's the link so you can get one? I tried the website, can't find
> it.
>
> Mike
>
>
> At 08:13 AM 1/4/2017, you wrote:
>
> Content-Language: en-AU
>
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>
>  boundary="_000_SG2PR04MB16788BDAB4BCDFED4A9C9
> 4F8A26E0SG2PR04MB1678apcp_"
>
> Security passes, it's pretty standard at a WGC - I've been to three & have
> three at home. Naturally helps with many things, more so for the gliding
> people & the locals (police too) - there's a lot of strange people in town,
> allows others to identify who's there for the gliding & who's there for
> what ever other reason..!
>
> Good for the local businesses too to see that the WGC people are spending
> in their town & being rewarded for their possible sponsorship.
>
> Cheers,
>
> WPP
>
> On 4 Jan. 2017, at 06:59, Mike Borgelt < mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>
> wrote:
>
> What's the story on security passes?
>
> Mike
>
> At 07:36 AM 1/4/2017, you wrote:
>
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>
>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_000A_01D26665.B275CB80"
>
> Content-Language: en-au
>
> Hi Jo
>
> We plan to arrive about 6 or 7pm Friday after landing at Wangaratta and
> getting a rental car.
>
> We are staying at the Comfort Inn.
>
> I am not sure about the evening dinner, so we?ll see when we get there.
>
> Hope that our security passes will be ready. I got the automatic email
> response, but have heard nothing more.
>
> Regards
>
> Pam
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] On Behalf Of Jo Pockli

Re: [Aus-soaring] Another storm movie

[Peter Champness]

Thanks Anthony,

Why would anyone want to fly near to a thunderstorm?  Because there is
massive uplift there if you can find the right spot.

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 10:37 PM, Anthony Smith <
anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net> wrote:

> Another thunder storm / tornado movie by Mike Olbinski.  This time in
> black and white.
>
>
>
> https://vimeo.com/197854878
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
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>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] accommodation available Benalla for World Comps

[Peter Champness]

SNAFU. (Situation Normal  All F... Up)

All of this would not happen if individuals (police officers in this case,
if they are responsible) were named and held accountable.

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Anthony Smith <
anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net> wrote:

> Hi All
>
>
>
> Apparently the latest news is that a GFA card is now all that you need to
> get access.
>
>
>
> Allegedly a lot of dogs, complete with photos were issued with ID’s???
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
> Behalf Of *Mike Borgelt
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 January 2017 11:07 AM
>
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. <
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] accommodation available Benalla for World
> Comps
>
>
>
> Anthony,
>
> Are there different levels of access? Many of us already have ASICs.
> Any word on where this database goes after the contest?
> Vicpol? The folks who couldn't be bothered taking the complaint from the
> tradie after he stopped someone from burning down a servo because there was
> no damage and nobody was hurt.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> At 09:31 AM 1/4/2017, you wrote:
>
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_0033_01D26671.92BF16A0"
> Content-Language: en-au
>
> The security pass form is not immediately obvious.   Allegedly it was a
> last minute requirement from the Benalla Council and Victoria Police.
>
> I filled in the form and submitted the passport style photo here:
>
> http://www.worldgliding2017.com.au/index.php/registration-form-all-types
>
> It has already been pointed out about the lack of categories for
> non-participants.
>
> I understand that this is necessary to gain access to ‘airside’.
>
> Anthony
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] *On Behalf Of *Mike Borgelt
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 January 2017 9:12 AM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. <
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] accommodation available Benalla for World
> Comps
>
> OK so where's the link so you can get one? I tried the website, can't find
> it.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> At 08:13 AM 1/4/2017, you wrote:
>
> Content-Language: en-AU
>
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>
>  boundary="_000_SG2PR04MB16788BDAB4BCDFED4A9C9
> 4F8A26E0SG2PR04MB1678apcp_"
>
> Security passes, it's pretty standard at a WGC - I've been to three & have
> three at home. Naturally helps with many things, more so for the gliding
> people & the locals (police too) - there's a lot of strange people in town,
> allows others to identify who's there for the gliding & who's there for
> what ever other reason..!
>
> Good for the local businesses too to see that the WGC people are spending
> in their town & being rewarded for their possible sponsorship.
>
> Cheers,
>
> WPP
>
>
> On 4 Jan. 2017, at 06:59, Mike Borgelt < mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>
> wrote:
>
> What's the story on security passes?
>
> Mike
>
> At 07:36 AM 1/4/2017, you wrote:
>
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>
>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_000A_01D26665.B275CB80"
>
> Content-Language: en-au
>
> Hi Jo
>
> We plan to arrive about 6 or 7pm Friday after landing at Wangaratta and
> getting a rental car.
>
> We are staying at the Comfort Inn.
>
> I am not sure about the evening dinner, so we?ll see when we get there.
>
> Hope that our security passes will be ready. I got the automatic email
> response, but have heard nothing more.
>
> Regards
>
> Pam
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] On Behalf Of Jo Pocklington
>
> Sent: Wednesday, 4 January 2017 7:47 AM
>
> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' <
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
>
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] accommodation available Benalla for World Comps
>
>
>
> Anyone needing accommodation during the World Comps at Benalla, contact
> Jane Rushworth   janerushwo...@westnet.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Aus-soaring mailing list
>
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
>
> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring
> instrumentation since 1978
>
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
>
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> <+61%207%204635%205784>
>
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
>
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
> ___
>
> Aus-soaring mailing list
>
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
> ___
>
> Aus-soaring mailing list
>
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring
> instrumentation since 1978
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel: 

Re: [Aus-soaring] Because it doesn't seem to have been posted here...

[Peter Champness]

Great work Derek!

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Mark Newton  wrote:

> http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?dsId=5504459
>
>   - mark
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] [gfaforum] Victoria - l2 ops

[Peter Champness]

I am in favour of the proposal for several reasons so I also will respond
from Victoria.

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 11:00 AM, JOHN DAVID STYLES 
wrote:

> Richard, if no one in is interested I will help with this, but with 600
> plus pilots in Vic its disappointing that they will not put their hands up
> to help.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> On  Sunday, 12 Feb, 2017 At 9:21 AM, s p bromiley bigpond.com> wrote:
>
> As a new member I have no idea what you are talking about. Can you point
> me to some background on this please?
>
> "I have had an initial positive response from the GFA in terms of making
> changes to the L2 Indi Ops. To help get further traction i need a pilot
> from WA, TAS, Vic, NT and QLD to put a common request to their appropriate
> State Bodies. (such is the way things need to work)."
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Richard Frawley [mailto:rjfraw...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, 12 February 2017 7:43 a.m.
> To: aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au; gfafo...@glidingaustralia.org
> Subject: [gfaforum] Victoria - l2 ops
>
> all,
>
> I have help offered from every state except victoria.
>
> There must be someone there that cares enough to see this ruling improved.
>
> Richard
>
>
> --
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Re: [Aus-soaring] To PowerFlarm or not?

[Peter Champness]

What is wrong with AusFlarm?

It is all solid stae electronics.  Why are they all failing?  10 year life
span is pathetic.

I am not planning to reinvest intil a better alternative comes along.  I
have a Flarm., That is all.

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 7:32 PM, Justin Couch  wrote:

> With two of my club's old Mini Oz Flarms pushing up daisies, and more
> likely to follow soon, it's time for us to get some new ones. We fly at
> Camden, so lots and lots of random air traffic about - some IFR, lots of
> RAAUS types etc. Thus, PowerFlarm with ADS-B option seems like a reasonable
> thing for us to contemplate.  What's the general thoughts on where that is
> going and adoption rates?  IIRC the yanks just rescinded their mandatory
> requirements for it, and something happened here in Oz around it too, but
> my google-fu is weak.
>
> If we look at a 10 year lifespan for equipment, then the horizon of the
> adoption of ADS-B is the interesting bit to us, rather than equipment cost.
>
> --
> Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/
> Java 3D Graphics Informationhttp://www.j3d.org/
> LinkedIn http://au.linkedin.com/in/justincouch/
> G+   WetMorgoth
> ---
> "Look through the lens, and the light breaks down into many lights.
>  Turn it or move it, and a new set of arrangements appears... is it
>  a single light or many lights, lights that one must know how to
>  distinguish, recognise and appreciate? Is it one light with many
>  frames or one frame for many lights?"  -Subcomandante Marcos
> ---
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Class 2 Medical Reform CASA - submissions due 30 March 17

[Peter Champness]

Do we (ie GFA) have any data on accidents due to medical incapacitation,
which a medical examination might have detected?   I can think of one
incident which may have been related to dehydration hence not related to
medical certification.

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Jo Pocklington 
wrote:

> 23 Feb 17 : CASA Briefing Newsletter - More comments needed on the future
> of medicals
>
> Time is running down on the chance to have a say on the future of pilot
> medical certification. CASA needs comments from people across the aviation
> community on a comprehensive medical discussion paper. While some people
> have already sent submissions, many more are needed. The paper sets out a
> range of medical certification issues and puts forward a number of options.
> These options range from continuing existing medical requirements to
> developing a new medical certificate for the sport and recreational
> sectors. They also include re-assessing risk tolerances, streamlining
> certification practices, aligning sport and recreational standards and
> mitigating the risks of any changes through operational restrictions. The
> discussion paper looks at a range of other relevant issues such as CASA’s
> approach to aviation medicine, the approach to medical certification in
> four other nations, pilot incapacitation in Australia, accidents and risks,
> psychiatric conditions and the protection of third parties. The discussion
> paper makes it clear CASA’s operational objective is to strive to let as
> many people continue to fly as safely as possible. However, CASA is aware
> there is a perception from some elements of the pilot community that CASA
> can take an overly rigorous approach in terms of testing and contesting
> opinions from other doctors.  Comment on the medical discussion paper
>  by 30
> March 2017.
>
>
>
> Regarding Class 2 Medical reform, AOPA put forward a proposal on 23 August
> 2016 which you may wish to support (2 page summary CASA discussion paper
> and AOPO recommendation attached).  Possibilities include addressing each
> of the 6 options put forward by CASA, or simply stating that "*the AOPO
> proposal dated 23 August 2016 regarding Class 2 Medical reform is supported
> by me*".  Submissions to avmed...@casa.gov.au by 30 March 17 and should
> include in the subject line:  'AvMed discussion paper'.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] GLIDING INTERNATIONAL - MARCH 2017 ISSUE

[Peter Champness]

Do you have PayPal?

"  We regretfully have to assume that the International Gliding Commission
or (even the FAI) are not interested in accepting that they have the
responsibility of addressing the problem and bringing forth a united world
wide program to at least attempting “a fix.”"

Are you being unfair?  What do the IGC know that we do not?  Maybe they are
just ineefective.

NZ should save their money.  NZ deldegate can contibute to the IGC by
teleconference or email.


On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 8:34 PM, John Roake  wrote:

> GLIDING INTERNATIONAL
>> ISSUE MARCH 2017
>>
>>
>> The March 2017 issue went in the mail on March 1 and should be with
>> subscribers within a week.  The Digital version was released on the same
>> day.
>>
>> Our circulation continues to grow and the March issue breaks new
>> territory with a fresh look at  ”falling membership.”  We regretfully have
>> to assume that the International Gliding Commission or (even the FAI) are
>> not interested in accepting that they have the responsibility of addressing
>> the problem and bringing forth a united world wide program to at least
>> attempting “a fix.”
>>
>> Fees paid to FAI are not inconsiderable and the advantages are getting
>> less and less.  New Zealand has acknowledged that they can no longer afford
>> to send a representative to Europe to the IGC annual meeting and we suspect
>> they are certainly not the only member country in the same position.  The
>> sport needs a more switched-on body that is aligned to the whole membership
>> and not just the two percent of the membership that are competition
>> orientated.  In other words IGC is fast outgrowing its usefulness.
>>
>> •  Gliding’s Best Kept Secret - The Jonker factory have released the
>> story on just how they went about designing and manufacturing their new
>> JS3. A company with a dedicated goal! They are now a force to be reckoned
>> with.
>>
>> •  The weather at Benalla for Australia’s World Championships was a major
>> disappointment for the dedicated team that excelled in providing everything
>> except great soaring conditions.  We devote 12 pages covering the event
>> with some spectacular photos.
>>
>> •  Schempp-Hirth’s new Ventus hits the headlines in this issue.  And for
>> the first time ever, we have seen a quoted price in public. Unsubstantiated
>> - €100,000.
>>
>> •  OSTIV had a very successful Congress at Benalla and Gerard Robertson
>> has produced an excellent report.  OSTIV is far more membership related
>> than IGC and they should be receiving more support participation from the
>> whole gliding movement.
>>
>> •  FAI has become a member of the Olympic TV sports organisation .
>>
>> •  Virtual Reality has arrived and it has a great future for pilot
>> training in the gliding movement (If only it could be organised on a world
>> wide basis). They are a fraction of the cost of a sailplane simulator.  A
>> very worth-while project that could make a difference to our gliding
>> population.  We have done some electrifying research.
>>
>> •  Bet you haven’t heard about the gliders that ended up in the US
>> Airforce and were fitted with motors and used as observation aircraft in
>> the Vietnam war. Gliders as war birds ?  Yes ! One of our best stories!
>>
>> •   The medical battle is over in the USA and a number of CAA’s around
>> the world are considering accepting their lead as a concept of some merit.
>> Will your country follow the U.S. move ?
>>
>> •  Englishman, G Dale, is producing a new series of training manuals.  We
>> think they lead the market and are worthy of considering as an aid for your
>> club and your members.  After all, G is the most advanced mountain soaring
>> instructor in the world.  Read about him in this issue.
>>
>> •  Veronica is a new name on the Namibian scene. Just completed their
>> first season. A well illustrated project.
>>
>> •  Our Sebastian Kawa article on soaring in Russia in our last issue has
>> generated some interesting possibilities on sites with considerable soaring
>> possibilities. Russian soaring pilot, Dimetria Ivanischev, has written to
>> us about going to likely locations he personally wants to explore.  Anyone
>> with their hands up for a Russian expedition?
>>
>> •  And we tell you how to handle yourself when you have been “balled-lout”
>> by an  air traffic controller for an airspace infringement.
>>
>>
>> • All this plus 35 other stories that will educate and inform.
>>
>> As we have said before  - our best issue yet!
>>
>> We hope you will join us.
>> JOHN ROAKE
>> EDITOR.
>>
>> NEW (or RENEWING) SUBSCRIBERS CAN EASILY EFFECT A SUBSCRIPTION BY GOING
>> TO OUR WEB PAGE – For printed (US $69) or Digital issue  (US $49) or your
>> local equivalent.   (USE  www.glidinginternational.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Boomerang Tyre

[Peter Champness]

All this military equipment on our gliders!

No great surprise I suppose given the post war period in which they were
built.

My Foka 5 uses a Me109  tyre.

On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Leigh Bunting 
wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> Time to change it to something else that is close in size, like a Tost
> wheel. I'm sure other ES60 owners have done something similar.
>
> I replaced the Spitfire/Wirraway tailwheel hub on my GB and saved a kg.
> and a half in weight.
>
> Cheers
> Leigh
>
> On 11 Mar 2017 09:06, Christopher McDonnell 
> wrote:
>
> My proto Schneider ES 60 has a 4.95 x 3.5 tyre and only Dunlop still have
> it in stock.
> In their list it is a military tyre for the tail wheel of Hawker
> Hurricanes *only*.
> Since it is military The UK government require an ‘end user
> undertaking/certificate’ before it can be sold to me.
> There is a lot of work in getting one of those things signed off.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[Aus-soaring] Oratex UL600

[Peter Champness]

Has any one tried this covering material?

IS there an agent in Australia?
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Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

[Peter Champness]

Thanks,

Is there a generic reply which I could copy?

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:56 PM, Jo Pocklington 
wrote:

> Hi Mike, deadline is Thursday 30 March.  SAAA & RA-Aus submissions are
> not yet available.  AOPA put forward a proposal on 23 August 2016
> (attached), which many are supporting.
>
> GFA tug pilots could be affected.  Even though they can operate on an
> RAMPC, RAMPC requires fulfilling unconditional private driver licence
> requirements + a visit to a Doctor + filling in a medical history form +
> only being eligible in the absence of certain conditions - although these
> conditions do not preclude an unconditional driver's licence. There are 53+
> disqualifying conditions for an RAMPC including a cancer in the last 5
> years, angina, coronary bypass surgery, ECG changes, insulin treated
> diabetes, sleep apnoea...  RAMPC is therefore more restrictive than a Class
> 2 Medical, eg a healthy private pilot with a recent history of prostate
> cancer is ineligible to obtain a RAMPC, but that pilot is unlikely to have
> difficulty obtaining a Class 2 Medical Certificate.
>
> Submissions to avmed...@casa.gov.au and should include in the subject
> line:  'AvMed discussion paper' - regards Jo
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
> Behalf Of *Mike Borgelt
> *Sent:* Monday, 27 March 2017 3:00 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion paper
>
>
> OK how many have put in a submission to CASA Avmed re the current
> discussion paper? You have until 31st March.(the end of this week).
>
> If you don't, there is a possibility you will be required to have a RAMPC
> to fly gliders. You can go to recreationalflying.com to see the trouble
> that causes because if you can't get one for a number of relatively trivial
> reasons you will be up for a Class 2 medical with a DAME.
>
> If you don't put in a submission, preferably in strong support of the AOPA
> proposal which has been linked to here a while ago you get to lose all
> bitching rights and sympathy when CASA AvMed screws you over.
>
> Don't expect GFA to do anything sensible, do it yourself.
>
> Mike
> *Borgelt Instruments *-
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978*
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> <+61%207%204635%205784>
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March

[Peter Champness]

ok

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 6:49 PM, Jo Pocklington 
wrote:

> You could simply say something like "*the AOPA proposal dated 23 August
> 2016 regarding Class 2 Medical reform is supported by me*" – regards Jo
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
> Behalf Of *Peter Champness
> *Sent:* Monday, 27 March 2017 6:17 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion - due Thursday 30 March
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Is there a generic reply which I could copy?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:56 PM, Jo Pocklington 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike, deadline is Thursday 30 March.  SAAA & RA-Aus submissions are
> not yet available.  AOPA put forward a proposal on 23 August 2016
> (attached), which many are supporting.
>
> GFA tug pilots could be affected.  Even though they can operate on an
> RAMPC, RAMPC requires fulfilling unconditional private driver licence
> requirements + a visit to a Doctor + filling in a medical history form +
> only being eligible in the absence of certain conditions - although these
> conditions do not preclude an unconditional driver's licence. There are 53+
> disqualifying conditions for an RAMPC including a cancer in the last 5
> years, angina, coronary bypass surgery, ECG changes, insulin treated
> diabetes, sleep apnoea...  RAMPC is therefore more restrictive than a Class
> 2 Medical, eg a healthy private pilot with a recent history of prostate
> cancer is ineligible to obtain a RAMPC, but that pilot is unlikely to have
> difficulty obtaining a Class 2 Medical Certificate.
>
> Submissions to avmed...@casa.gov.au and should include in the subject
> line:  'AvMed discussion paper' - regards Jo
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
> Behalf Of *Mike Borgelt
> *Sent:* Monday, 27 March 2017 3:00 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA Avmed discussion paper
>
>
> OK how many have put in a submission to CASA Avmed re the current
> discussion paper? You have until 31st March.(the end of this week).
>
> If you don't, there is a possibility you will be required to have a RAMPC
> to fly gliders. You can go to recreationalflying.com to see the trouble
> that causes because if you can't get one for a number of relatively trivial
> reasons you will be up for a Class 2 medical with a DAME.
>
> If you don't put in a submission, preferably in strong support of the AOPA
> proposal which has been linked to here a while ago you get to lose all
> bitching rights and sympathy when CASA AvMed screws you over.
>
> Don't expect GFA to do anything sensible, do it yourself.
>
> Mike
> *Borgelt Instruments *-
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978*
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> <+61%207%204635%205784>
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
>
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[Aus-soaring] High speed glider landing

[Peter Champness]

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/05/top-secret-air-force-
spaceplane-lands-with-sonic-boom-after-two-years-in-orbit/
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Re: [Aus-soaring] High speed glider landing

[Peter Champness]

Mr Squiggle's rocket always landed on its arse.

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> There were no enclosed wings on the Shuttle. There is plenty of Youtube
> video of shuttle launches and landings.
> It was a miserable, extremely dangerous  flying machine (this is just the
> orbiter, not the rest of the vulnerabilities built in to the system) with
> an L/D of something like 3 or 4 and a high wing loading and no go round
> capability. This resulted in quite severe re-entry heat loads and Columbia
> disintegrated at around 210,000 feet while still going Mach 12 or so. You
> want to shed energy higher up and a "fluffier" re-entry vehicle does this.
> Shuttle got the wing design it did in order to have a higher hypersonic L/D
> so it had more cross range capability on re-entry. This was to meet a USAF
> requirement for it to be able to be launched either from Cape Canaveral or
> Vandenberg and be recovered to the same place after one orbit, aka "the
> silly ass once around mission". This was meant to be a quick reaction
> reconnaisance mission but by the time the thing got built nobody believed
> in this mission anymore and anyway "quick reaction" didn't describe a
> shuttle launch. Atlantis was in processing for launch in a month when
> Columbia was launched on her last flight. I've seen a report that said they
> could have speeded up processing and would have had a window of 3 days to
> rendezvous, transfer the crew and either put Columbia into re-entry for
> disposal or park it in a higher orbit where it might have been able to be
> repaired on a later mission.
>
> Whether a vehicle has wings or not you need to burn a small amount of fuel
> to get your orbit to intersect the upper atmosphere. After that, the winged
> vehicle doesn't need to burn more fuel. A wingless rocket powered lander
> will need a small amount to cancel its terminal velocity in the lower
> atmosphere for landing . Correctly designed this should be only 100M/sec or
> so. Falcon 9 from what I could see from the last flight was less than
> 300M/sec but this booster stage wasn't originally designed for optimum
> rocket powered landing. (I think you want a conical shape for greater base
> area). Wings are pretty awful on re-entry. Very high temperatures on
> relatively small in area stagnation points. Heat shielding on a properly
> designed wingless stage will likely weigh a lot less.
>
> The upper stage of Falcon 9 was meant to re-enter and be recovered but the
> payload hit meant that idea was abandoned but in light of the success of
> the booster landings the plan has been dusted off. There is talk of
> attempting upper stage recovery on the first flight of Falcon Heavy (3
> Falcon 9 booster stages strapped together). It is planned to recover all 3
> boosters and at least one of them has flown before. See also Elon Musk ITS.
> ITS is the proposed Mars ship. Highly entertaining video of Elon Musk
> describing this at an IAU meeting in Mexico last September. SpaceX is
> actually testing the full scale carbon fiber tanks for this and the Raptor
> engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raptor_(rocket_engine_family) is in
> test and has been fired.
>
> All you ever want to know about spaceships flown and proposed at
> www.astronautix.com
>
> This is the REAL space age.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 09:50 PM 5/12/2017, you wrote:
>
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_0001_01D2CB65.94F90990"
> Content-Language: en-us
>
> I agree Mark and disagree with your comments Mike.
>
> The shuttles were capable of rotating to an AoA after re-entry so that
> they could slowed sufficiently to extend enclosed wings and be turned into
> a much safer flying device that operated with much more flexibility on its
> return to Terra Firma.
>
> Noel.
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] *On Behalf Of *Mark Newton
> *Sent:* Friday, May 12, 2017 7:18 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] High speed glider landing
>
> Might be fine for a booster, but not so good for an orbiter, where you’d
> need to take many expensive kilograms of landing fuel all the way into
> orbit and back.
>
>
>
>   - mark
>
>
> On May 12, 2017, at 11:07 AM, Mike Borgelt < mborgelt@borgeltinstruments.
> com> wrote:
>
> About  how the Shuttle used to land except the vehicle is a lot smaller.
>
>
>
> I think wings are the most useless things on spaceships though. Just land
> it vertically on rocket thrust as SpaceX is now doing routinely.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> At 09:54 AM 5/12/2017, you wrote:
>
> https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/05/top-secret-air-force-
> spaceplane-lands-with-sonic-boom-after-two-years-in-orbit/
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding International - July 2017

[Peter Champness]

Hello John,

You did an article on the Beaufort Gliding Club Hornet STOL tug about 2
years ago.  We have a had a lot of delays since then.

However we have finally made it and the tug is now operational.  i can
write something for the next issue if you are interested.

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 2:50 PM, Gliding International Office <
off...@glidinginternational.com> wrote:

> *GLIDING INTERNATIONAL *
>
> *ISSUE JULY 2017*
>
>
>
> The July 2017 issue goes in the mail next Wednesday and should be with
> subscribers within a week.  The Digital version will be released on the
> same day.
>
>
>
> Our circulation continues to grow and the July issue breaks new territory
> with a report on how spending thousands of dollars on the world class
> gliding centre at Omarama, (New Zealand) has produced  a complex few if any
> can equal.  The fleet of Duo Discus is hard pressed to meet the demands of
> the tourists who are flooding the country.  (A haven from terriorists). The
> history of the site makes absorbing reading with a lesson or two for others
> planning similar developments.
>
>
>
>
>
> The issue includes:
>
>
>
> •  Reports that the ‘Diana’ is back in series production is indeed news.
> Especially at the prices being quoted.  And you can get one early next year.
>
> •  Often wondered how the Germans manage their gliding movement?  We
> provide a report on the German AeroKlub and the responsibilities they are
> involved in.
>
> •  There is an opportunity for you to personally to make some real cash by
> getting involved in the European change over to 8.33 kHz transceivers.
>
> •  Not gliding but a feature that will provide a good night’s sleep for
> the overnight retrieve or that long week-end at the club!
>
> •  A group at the Adelaide University (Australia) have been testing Oratex
> as a means of re-lifing some older gliders (ASK13 era). Valuable
> information -  worth reading.
>
> •  Ever thought about who manages the German sponsored On-Line-Contest and
> who manages the operation – Reiner Rose is the brains behind this project
> and we let you have a break down on the numbers involved. Some 116,500
> flights were recorded in 2016. The web site attracted 111 million clicks!
>
> •  A quick read on why aviation GPS is superior to Ground base systems.
>
> •  A report and photos on the Mistral Winds in the South of France.  We
> found few really understand why the winds have been to blame for Vincent
> Van Gogh (French painter) cutting off his ear. (And it all relates to
> gliding too).
>
> •  The German aviation journal AeroKurier has admitted that Germany was
> caught totally unaware of the JS3 development in South Africa. They have
> gone on to say that Germany has been undergoing identical research on the
> same problem (Wing to Fuselage inter-reaction) for over 20 years.  The
> Germans will test fly their latest project this northern summer.
> Exceptionally interesting with a large range of photos.
>
> •  A full report on new soaring instruments that have just hit the market.
>
> •  The American Weather Forecasting system is lagging behind accepted
> norms for meteorology. But Trump “will fix it!”
>
> •  The fresh look at soaring in Namibia and the flood of Europeans that
> soar there in Northern winter.
>
> •  And we have a look at the Horten Brothers flying-wing glider of 1933.
> Still leaves today’s pilots in wonderment.
>
> •  Have you heard about the circular runway.  “Going why you are coming!”
> An amusing thought from an adventurous Dutchman.
>
> •  We give competition pilots a look at the 2020 World Championships site
> at Stendal-Bostel, Germany.
>
> •  Few appreciate the research work being undertaken by Airbus (Batteries,
> aircraft design, new motivation power).  An update.
>
>
>
>
>
> All this  - plus another 40 stories to update you on the sport.
>
>
>
> NEW (or RENEWING) SUBSCRIBERS CAN EASILY EFFECT A SUBSCRIPTION BY GOING TO
> OUR WEB PAGE – For printed (US $69) or Digital issue  (US $49) or your
> local equivalent.   (USE  www.glidinginternational.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Meteorology for Glider Pilots

[Peter Champness]

Some one snap it up!

I borrowed my copy from some one and never gave it back.

On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Graham Holland 
wrote:

> FYI, there is a copy of the 3rd (international) edition of Wallington’s
> book in very good condition for sale for $120 at Virginia Cullane Books at
> Canowindra. Email: cnab...@tpg.com.au, phone: 02 6344 1437.
>
> Graham
>
> Graham Holland
> 27 Johnston Crescent
> Lane Cove NSW 2066
> Australia
> 02 9427 3282
> grahamholl...@iinet.net.au
>
>
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>
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[Aus-soaring] Spitfire Glider

[Peter Champness]

 Anyone who has seen the new movie Dunkirk will be amazed at the
performance of the Supermarine Spitfire Mk1, as a glider after it runs out
of fuel!  EB 29 is nothing by comparison.

Also it is not to late to lower the wheels when you start the flare, even
though it takes 29 pumps on the hydraulic pump.
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Re: [Aus-soaring] the future of gliding

[Peter Champness]

Thanks Harry,

I agree that we need security of tenure over where we conduct gliding
operations.

In Melbourne we want to secure tenure over the Bacchus Marsh airfield.. I
hope that we can do, that.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 8:37 PM, Harry Medlicott <
hw.medlic...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
>
>
> It was almost inevitable. Money hungry councils without a great deal of
> interest in gliding, sooner or later decide that perhaps if they can get
> rid of all the users then then real estate value of the property is worth
> millions or just because they wish to cover the maintenance cost of their
> property, that it is a good idea to squeeze as much money as they can from
> those selfish, filthy rich aviators who are small in number and contribute
> little to the community.
>
>
>
> I have always thought it would be good publicity as well as a genuine
> contribution to society if gliding clubs organised regular charity events,
> perhaps in conjunction with service clubs such as rotary or lions. Entirely
> on the basis that the club(s) would make absolutely nothing from the
> exercise except community goodwill and perhaps gain new members. At my
> home  club, Lake Keepit, the charity to support could be the Westpac Rescue
> Helicopter Service which is well supported and regarded locally. Another
> worthwhile idea would be to try and get glider pilot representation on the
> local council.
>
>
>
> Of more importance the GFA should investigate the possibility of
> purchasing land suitable for use as a gliding field about no more than an
> hours driving distance from, for a start, Sydney and Melbourne. I can
> imagine the shock, horror of the powers that be at this suggestion. Not the
> GFAs business, we are merely an umbrella organisation to supervise the
> efforts of gliding clubs. Am afraid that the future of gliding, certainly
> in NSW and Victoria depends on having a secure future from which to conduct
> operations. Not affordable? Not sure about that. We spend considerable
> amounts on other aspects of gliding which might have to be curtailed while
> funds were expended on funding sites. Once the land was secure am sure
> clubs would migrate their operations to such a site over a period of time.
>
>
>
> There may be other ways to achieve this. It may be that a council would
> give a very long term lease or security of occupation at a predetermined
> cost.
>
>
>
> The long term future of gliding depends on having security of tenure over
> where we conduct operations. The GFA should take the initiative in
> achieving this. It is probably beyond the resources of an individual club.
>
>
>
> Harry Medlicott
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] re LiFePO4 batteries

[Peter Champness]

I was hoping to find out the answer also.

On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Ron Sanders  wrote:

> Thanks every body  i am sorted out now.
>
> Ron
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] [gfaforum] RE: water bags and tanks

[Peter Champness]

With respect to ballast bags, can anyone tell me why so many older gliders
(without ballast bags) can no longer carry water?  What is the problem?

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 10:38 PM, Noel Roediger 
wrote:

> The best ballast bags I ever used were made by Clipper Plastics – a
> Melbourne based company.
>
>
>
> They had patterns for all sailplanes requiring such and the bags were
> reasonably priced.
>
>
>
> Noel.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bruce Taylor [mailto:brucetaylo...@bigpond.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 28, 2017 3:32 PM
> *To:* 'Justin Sinclair'; 'Gary Stevenson'
> *Cc:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'; 'Anthony
> Smith'; 'Gliding Australia Forum'
> *Subject:* RE: [gfaforum] RE: water bags and tanks
>
>
>
> Hi Gary and all,
>
>
>
> In regard to sourcing ballast bags, there is a company at Currumbin in Qld
> called Turtle Pac who make all kinds of water and fuel bags for aviation
> and marine use. You will find them at http://www.turtlepac.com/
>
>
>
> I have used them in the past, as have a number of other gliding people,
> and they appear to provide a good quality product and are very pleasant and
> easy to deal with.
>
>
>
> Speaking of “Super ships” and matters of weight and balance, it is my
> experience that as weights and wing-loadings inevitably increase, then the
> chance of getting the loading wrong enough to matter also increases. The
> JS1 is a beautiful glider to own and fly, but it is the first glider that I
> have been involved with that has a real potential to be loaded well outside
> of its C of G limitations. Particularly in 21m span, the large wing ballast
> load, two separate tail tanks, jet fuel load and of course various pilot
> weights require that you do actually sit down with the supplied loading
> spreadsheet and put all the correct numbers into the calculation.
> Wing-loadings close to 60kg/sq m are a real hoot to fly with, but need to
> be treated with much respect.
>
>
>
> On the upside, the EASA-specified certification flight testing is now
> incredibly rigorous, so you can be assured that if you do get the numbers
> wrong, or have a ballast-dump malfunction, the glider will be doing its
> best to keep you alive. Things have changed since gliders like the Cirrus
> were certified! Spinning the JS1C/21m with a fully asymmetric ballast load,
> with the C of G WAY behind the aft limit, makes for particularly exciting
> viewing! It’s on Youtube somewhere.
>
>
>
> Cheers, BT.
>
>
>
> *From:* Justin Sinclair [mailto:justinjsincl...@hotmail.com
> ]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 28, 2017 7:38 AM
> *To:* Gary Stevenson
> *Cc:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.; Anthony
> Smith; Gliding Australia Forum
> *Subject:* Re: [gfaforum] RE: water bags and tanks
>
>
>
> My only comment having been involved as  CFI of a club that has had an
> asymmetric balance accident would be that *"if"* you can pick that you
> have asymmetry make sure do a fast landing.
>
>
>
> I am not sure of the speed or flap setting but logic would dictate
> something above your normal fully ballasted/slow thermalling speed. The
> idea would be to lower the wing onto the ground before you lose aileron
> effectiveness, but do not do the traditional stall it on landing otherwise
> you get a big surprise as the heavy wing drops first.
>
>
>
> The issue with asymmetry should be structural not aerodynamic. Even if one
> wing has 200lts of water in it you average wing can easily develop enough
> angle of attack to pull 3G or 600lts/kg, so as long as you have speed/AoA
> you will be fine.
>
>
>
> My only other advice would be if you use tape to cover the vent holes
> instead of wing sticks make sure you do a proper ABCD walk around just
> before you jump in the seat and use any colour tape other than white.
>
>
>
> Justin
>
>
>
> Justin Sinclair
>
> 17 Queen St
>
> Scarborough Qld
>
>
>
> 0421061811
>
>
> On 28 Aug 2017, at 12:18 am, Gary Stevenson  wrote:
>
> Hi Noel,
>
> Tend to agree with you here.
>
>
>
> Re “twisted” I am sure that this does not apply only to the bags. Think
> about some of the pilots you know!
>
>
>
> You say *“Generally a sailplane will not display an imbalance until
> stalled. One wing doesn’t know it’s heavier than its partner until then.”*
> A very interesting point, which I have had the misfortune to inadvertently
> explore a little bit, but – thank  God – never seriously in the air.
>
>
>
> Without doubt  the use of water ballast  introduced a whole new dimension
> to gliding, as, just co-incidentally Mike B mentioned in a concurrent post.
> However it use is something that should never be treated *lightly*
> [groan].  A couple of hundred litres of ballast will turn your pussy cat
> into a tiger:  In the glide;  into a missile  . almost.  Take care that
> you are not lined up on one of your mates.
>
>
>
> You say “*A number of prototype sailplanes have been lost while testing
> their ability to remain controllable at the stall with max. Imbalance” * I
> have nev

Re: [Aus-soaring] [gfaforum] RE: water bags and tanks

[Peter Champness]

Thanks Noel,

It seems my message got out even though I got a reply saying that it had
not.

I am corresponding with a  sailplane builder in the USA who wants to just
use sealed spaces in the leading edge as tanks.  I am trying to persuade
him to use ballast bags,

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 8:15 PM, Noel Roediger 
wrote:

> Peter.
>
>
>
> A long time ago several old/new sailplanes eg. Mosquito’s, Cirrus etc..
> suffered water leakage from their tanks into surrounding foam structure to
> such a degree lower skins separated from the foam.
>
>
>
> As a result  a test was required to check the integrity of ballast tanks
> at each Form 2 inspection.
>
>
>
> I can only suppose the tanked sailplanes you’re referring to failed the
> test.
>
>
>
> Noel.
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
> Behalf Of *Peter Champness
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 29, 2017 6:40 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Cc:* Gliding Australia Forum; Bruce Taylor
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] [gfaforum] RE: water bags and tanks
>
>
>
> With respect to ballast bags, can anyone tell me why so many older gliders
> (without ballast bags) can no longer carry water?  What is the problem?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 10:38 PM, Noel Roediger 
> wrote:
>
> The best ballast bags I ever used were made by Clipper Plastics – a
> Melbourne based company.
>
>
>
> They had patterns for all sailplanes requiring such and the bags were
> reasonably priced.
>
>
>
> Noel.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bruce Taylor [mailto:brucetaylo...@bigpond.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 28, 2017 3:32 PM
> *To:* 'Justin Sinclair'; 'Gary Stevenson'
> *Cc:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'; 'Anthony
> Smith'; 'Gliding Australia Forum'
> *Subject:* RE: [gfaforum] RE: water bags and tanks
>
>
>
> Hi Gary and all,
>
>
>
> In regard to sourcing ballast bags, there is a company at Currumbin in Qld
> called Turtle Pac who make all kinds of water and fuel bags for aviation
> and marine use. You will find them at http://www.turtlepac.com/
>
>
>
> I have used them in the past, as have a number of other gliding people,
> and they appear to provide a good quality product and are very pleasant and
> easy to deal with.
>
>
>
> Speaking of “Super ships” and matters of weight and balance, it is my
> experience that as weights and wing-loadings inevitably increase, then the
> chance of getting the loading wrong enough to matter also increases. The
> JS1 is a beautiful glider to own and fly, but it is the first glider that I
> have been involved with that has a real potential to be loaded well outside
> of its C of G limitations. Particularly in 21m span, the large wing ballast
> load, two separate tail tanks, jet fuel load and of course various pilot
> weights require that you do actually sit down with the supplied loading
> spreadsheet and put all the correct numbers into the calculation.
> Wing-loadings close to 60kg/sq m are a real hoot to fly with, but need to
> be treated with much respect.
>
>
>
> On the upside, the EASA-specified certification flight testing is now
> incredibly rigorous, so you can be assured that if you do get the numbers
> wrong, or have a ballast-dump malfunction, the glider will be doing its
> best to keep you alive. Things have changed since gliders like the Cirrus
> were certified! Spinning the JS1C/21m with a fully asymmetric ballast load,
> with the C of G WAY behind the aft limit, makes for particularly exciting
> viewing! It’s on Youtube somewhere.
>
>
>
> Cheers, BT.
>
>
>
> *From:* Justin Sinclair [mailto:justinjsincl...@hotmail.com
> ]
> *Sent:* Monday, August 28, 2017 7:38 AM
> *To:* Gary Stevenson
> *Cc:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.; Anthony
> Smith; Gliding Australia Forum
> *Subject:* Re: [gfaforum] RE: water bags and tanks
>
>
>
> My only comment having been involved as  CFI of a club that has had an
> asymmetric balance accident would be that *"if"* you can pick that you
> have asymmetry make sure do a fast landing.
>
>
>
> I am not sure of the speed or flap setting but logic would dictate
> something above your normal fully ballasted/slow thermalling speed. The
> idea would be to lower the wing onto the ground before you lose aileron
> effectiveness, but do not do the traditional stall it on landing otherwise
> you get a big surprise as the heavy wing drops first.
>
>
>
> The issue with asymmetry should be structural not aerodynamic. Even if one
> wing has 200lts of water in it you a

[Aus-soaring] Warm Fronts on the BOM Weather Maps

[Peter Champness]

Has any noticed that warm fronts are becoming a feature of our weather maps?

I can't remember seeing them before, except possibly well south of
Tasmania.  David Wilson said something recently about our cold fronts being
somewhat like the Northern Hemisphere  warm fronts that Wallington
describes in his book (Meteorology for Glider Pilots).

In  a similar manner troughs were not seen on our weather maps before about
the mid 1990's.  Now they are every where.

Is it Climate Change or is the BOM learning something?
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Re: [Aus-soaring] FES fire in the UK

[Peter Champness]

What sort of extinguisher can be relied apon to put out a LiPo on Fire?

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 8:35 PM, Noel Roediger 
wrote:

> Interesting.
>
> But the report doesn't  really tell us anything we don't know about LiPo's.
>
> SR 018, 019 and 020 are as useless as TOAB without requiring an
> extinguisher to be carried - and there is none.
>
> I understand some manufacturers of SLS's already incorporate fire warning
> systems but without extinguisher backup.
>
> Not with-standing, it must be realized that any type of battery can
> explode.
>
> I look forward to the AAIB report on the certification process followed by
> EASA.
>
> Noel.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On
> Behalf Of Justin Couch
> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 5:33 PM
> To: aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] FES fire in the UK
>
> Here's the actual AAIB report:
>
> https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/
> 59c8f175e5274a49c07f4704/AAIB_S3-2017_G-GSGS.pdf
>
>
> On 29/09/2017 7:02 AM, Future Aviation Pty. Ltd. wrote:
> > Good morning all
> >
> > This was sent to me over night by a German friend of mine.
> >
> > As you can see, no mention was made of the type of battery used here.
> >  From my visits to the AERO trade fair I know that some manufacturers
> use LiPo Batteries.
> > They have the best power to weight ratio but they are known to be
> extremely dangerous.
> > I will attempt to find out if this type of battery was installed in this
> glider.
> >
> > Kind regards to all
> >
> > Bernard
> >
> >>  From UK, newspaper report:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The Air Accidents Investigation Branch has made a safety recommendation
> after a sailplane burst into flames shortly after landing in Parham
> Airfield. On August 10, 2017, the glider sailplane set off from the
> airfield between Storrington and Pulborough at 10.21am for a flight lasting
> approximately two hours. The glider was flown normally to a smooth
> touchdown, according to the AAIB, until the pilot heard an ‘unexpected
> noise’. The AAIB report said: “As the glider slowed during the ground run,
> the pilot smelled burning and the cockpit filled with smoke that was moving
> forwards from behind the pilot’s head. “He vacated the cockpit normally,
> without injury, and observed that the Front Electric Sustainer (FES)
> battery compartment cover was missing and that smoke, followed shortly by
> flames, was coming from the battery compartment. “The airfield fire truck
> arrived promptly and an initial attempt was made to extinguish the fire
> using a CO2 gaseous extinguisher, but this proved unsuccessful. “Aqueous
> film-forming foam (AFFF) was then sprayed into the FES battery compartment
> and the fire was extinguished.”
> >>
> >>
> >> The pilot was the only person on board the glider, according to the
> AAIB.
> >>
> >> He did not report observing any warning messages or illuminated LEDs,
> when asked by the AAIB, although his attention was drawn outside the
> cockpit during landing.
> >>
> >> The AAIB report found existing FES battery installations ‘do not
> provide sufficient warning’ to a pilot of a fire.
> >>
> >> As a result, the AAIB made a safety recommendation that ‘all powered
> sailplanes fitted with an FES system, must be equipped with a warning
> system to alert the pilot to the presence of a fire in the FES battery
> compartment’.
> >>
> >> The AAIB investigation confirmed the ‘origin of the fire’ was the
> forward FES battery.
> >>
> >> The report added: “Its battery box was ruptured along the rear left
> corner and the battery assembly was heavily fire damaged.
> >>
> >> “The rear FES battery box suffered from external fire damage although
> the internal components were only slightly damaged and the cells remained
> charged.
> >>
> >> “The FES battery compartment was heavily fire damaged.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> see also
> >>
> >> https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib-special-bulletin-s3-2017-on-hph-
> >> glasflugel-304-es-g-gsgs
> >>  >> -glasflugel-304-es-g-gsgs>
> >> http://www.front-electric-sustainer.com/news.php
> >> 
> >> http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/20170906EASAAD20170167E.pdf
> >> 
>
>
> --
> Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/
> Java 3D Graphics Informationhttp://www.j3d.org/
> LinkedIn http://au.linkedin.com/in/justincouch/
> G+   WetMorgoth
> ---
> "Look through the lens, and the light breaks down into many lights.
>   Turn it or move it, and a new set of arrangements appears... is it
>   a single light or many lights, lights that one must know how to
>   distinguish, recognise and appreci

Re: [Aus-soaring] New online store

[Peter Champness]

Thanks Tom,

My contribution.


Since you offer swages and thimbles for cable systems could you add the
wire cable itself to your inventory?

On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 6:22 PM,  wrote:

>
> Find yourself looking for tyres, tubes, tapes etc to suit your glider?
> T&J Sailplane Services are pleased to announce their new online store that
> we hope will cater to that need.  Please have a look at
> https://gliderstuff.com.au/   Some honest feedback would be appreciated.
>
> Regards to all,
>
> Tom and Jane Gilbert
>
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>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[Peter Champness]

Point taken.
I have the highest regard for Nigel Brennan.  If he says the chute is ok I
am happy to wear it.

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Ron Sanders  wrote:

> Do you mind if i forward your comments to Mr Nigel Brennan who re packed
> and inspected the chute??
>
> Ron
>
> On 25 October 2017 at 13:52, DMcD  wrote:
>
>> >>Hi guys, do not bother sold in 6 minutes!!
>>
>> Lets hope the buyer does not have to use it!
>>
>> Hang glider parachutes have a slightly harder time than glider
>> parachutes, partially because the pack is less dense and lets in more
>> UV, though many parachute manufacturers wrap the parachute inside a
>> foil folder to help protect it. The fabric is also degraded by sweat
>> and other factors. Some fabric and some colours degrade much faster
>> than others too. What colour is your chute? Is it nice and bright so
>> it can be spotted easily in the air or on the ground or have you ever
>> looked?
>>
>> I don't think most of us take parachutes particularly seriously
>> enough. For example, your parachute size should be related to several
>> factors, including your age and weight. Most parachute sizes are for
>> young people weighing an ISO standard 75 kgs who can jump off a 4
>> metre wall and not suffer any injury. And you?
>>
>> The older you are and the heavier you are, the larger the area of your
>> canopy needs to be. Of course, there's a trade off in that larger
>> canopies open more slowly, so the older you are, the higher you need
>> to be to safely deploy your canopy.
>>
>> I guess it is like Harley riders. They wear poor quality open face
>> helmets to protect poor quality brains.
>>
>> "I'm a licensed rigger.  In my experience, the life will be limited
>> primarily
>> by how much direct sunlight, dust, and grit the parachute sees.  If you
>> take
>> good care of the canopy and container, and keep the system out of the
>> direct
>> sunlight, it'll last quite a while.  Other responders have suggested a
>> practical life span of 15-20 years, and that's not too bad a range, IMHO.
>> However, if the system has been abused, it could be unusable after just a
>> few
>> years.
>>
>> Pay attention to the harness too, as it tends to suffer from abrasion and
>> from
>> the pilot's sweat.  It's not that unusual to see harnesses and containers
>> that
>> become unusable before the canopy."
>>
>> "In the UK the parachute manufacturers and riggers are not allowed to
>> re-pack parachutes over 25 years old.  ie once over 25 years, you have to
>> throw it away.. in any event most parachutes that age that I have
>> seen are big, heavy, and very uncomfortable to wear.  "
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>>
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] New storm video from Mike Olbinski

[Peter Champness]

Thanks Anthony

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 9:12 PM, Anthony Smith <
anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net> wrote:

> Teal spotted it first. I haven't seen it come up on the list yet...
>
> Lots of exciting and energetic weather:
>
> https://vimeo.com/239593389
>
> Anthony
>
> -Original Message-
> From: augc-people-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
> [mailto:augc-people-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Teal
> Sent: Tuesday, 24 October 2017 8:40 PM
> To: augc-peo...@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: [Augc-people] New storm video from Mike Olbinski
>
> Brand new and just uploaded this evening; quite possibly his best storm
> chaser movie yet.  Do yourself a favour and check it out. It's absolutely
> gorgeous! https://vimeo.com/239593389
>
> Teal
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] NOVEMBER ISSUE - GLIDING INTERNATIONAL

[Peter Champness]

It is time again for the new Gliding International and I will, as usual, go
looking for the item on Global Warming.

I used to find these articles irritating but now I have passed to the stage
of seeing the humorous side, especially as the intensity of the alarmists
rhetoric continues to ramp up..  Since nothing much happens the debate must
be recast, firstly as Global Warming, then Climate Change and now Climate
Disruption!

The Sept/Oct edition did not disappoint with an article titled; HEAT WAVES
MAKE FLYING WORSE.  The article was about a heat wave in Phoenix Arizona
this year which saw some flights cancelled because of the hot weather,  The
story was published in the major USA daily papers and I  first read it in
the Washington Post on June 22, 2017.  The Gliding International version
included this startling addition :*"Some jet engines risked catching on
fire in the extreme heat" *and it was accompanied by a graphic
proclaiming, *"2016
was the Hottest Year on Record.  Blame Humanity, its official". *

Maybe 2016 was a record hot year somewhere, but not in Phoenix Arizona
where similar or higher temperatures have been recorded 15 times in the
past and not more than 22 years ago.
http://www.news.com.au/travel/world-travel/north-america/it-is-so-hot-in-phoenix-that-planes-cant-fly/news-story/dfdcd68490ed9eaf37a5440b69ee56df

Also B737 and A320 aircraft continued to operate from the Phoenix airport
though the heatwave.

But that was not all the entertainment to be had because Myles Hynde, in
another article, noted that some ballasted gliders cannot reach their
maximum rated weight with a light pilot and proposed filling the ballast
tanks with heavy water, noting that heavy water could be obtained from a
sunken ferry in Norway.
This article was clearly not to be taken seriously and did have some
interesting aspects but I was surprised to read about the *water atom *(it
is a molecule) and then noted that Myles had incorrectly identified the
Oxygen atom as the  one containing the additional neutron in the nucleus.




On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 3:33 PM, Gliding International <
off...@glidinginternational.com> wrote:

> The November issue goes in the mail October 31.  The Digital issue will be
> released on November 3.
>
>
>
> The issue contains:
>
>
>
> 1.  A review at length on the Twin Shark from Europe.  This two seater has
> a good future.  The test flight report will appear in the following issue.
>
>
>
> 2.  Meantime, we some have great graphics on the Euro Glider, (many won’t
> even have heard about it).  It will have twin electric motors and is
> designed to be a basic trainer, one a club can use for a whole day (without
> recharges).  This is all new thinking – very interesting indeed.
>
>
>
> 3, The lead story is about soaring in Alaska.  Bob Adams, the author has
> over 2000 hours soaring in Alaska.   He provides some remarkable
> photography.
>
>
>
> 4.  The FES fire in two sailplanes is a worry.  We provide details of the
> FES fire in the United Kingdom with a response from the manufacturers on
> the issue.   You should read this if you have any plans to buy/fit a FES.
>
>
>
> 5.  A new jet unit has been tested by Germany’s Aerospace centre.  It is
> electrically driven with a promising future. Gliding is a future
> consideration for the concept.
>
>
>
> 6. Aldo Cernezzi puts his thoughts on paper about the world – wide decline
> in membership.
>
>
>
> 7. We discovered that the very first aero-tow was made in 1922.  We have a
> report in detail as to how/why/where it happened.  Supported by some
> amazing photos, all taken 95 years ago.  They have reproduced remarkably
> well.
>
>
>
> 8.  Your tow-plane could be running on fuel extracted from sugar cane.  A
> new concept worthy of further thought.
>
>
>
> 9.  DOHACKIES is the name coined for the latest in winglets.  Who is going
> to be the first manufacturer to fit them to a sailplane?
>
>
>
> 10.  Are you worried about Drones?  You should be!  The conference in
> Switzerland last month brought forth a paper that declared aviators can
> expect to compete with seven million drones with seven metre wing spans by
> 2030.  (400,00 will be commercial drones).  This is news but not good news!
>
>
>
> 11.  Canada seems to be the only ATC organisation that operates a system
> at a fraction of the cost than others. No other country matches their cost
> structure and service!  They just refunded users with $US60 million.
>
>
>
> 12.  A good report on a happy marriage between The European Aviation
> Safety Agency and the European Gliding Union.
>
>
>
> 13.  Some major improvements in battery technology. Two papers from two
> different organisations give readers an insight into the  major projects
> going on at different ends of the globe.
>
>
>
> 14.  Likewise the big money being applied into electric aircraft and
> self-launchers research.
>
>
>
> 15.  All this and 30 other stories to inform the gliding community on the
> world scene. And we have just ann

Re: [Aus-soaring] ASG29R

[Peter Champness]

I attended a talk by Gerhard Waibel about 10 years ago (or maybe 15 years
ago).

Among other things he talked about the wing fuselage  intersection drag.
His idea was to raise the wing on a thin  pylon more than 200mm above the
fuselage and then support the wing with struts!  I thought that was really
reinventing the wheel.  But he was right.  Here we go.

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 8:22 AM, Mike Borgelt <
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:

> Yes, as Bernard said there are other composite sailplanes with high wings.
> Phoebus C, Std Jantar 2/3, ASW 15.
>
> However have another look at the Mu 31, the fuselage cross section in
> particular where at around pilot shoulder height it necks in. This is more
> like the Weihe, Meise  (Olympia), Slingsby Sky, early Slingsby Skylarks etc.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> the At 01:08 PM 12/27/2017, you wrote:
>
> Not just new wings (same sections though ) but extensive changes to
> fuselage also so I think a new model number is warranted. Better for sales
> anyway. Wouldn't surprise me if the EB29R is further modified and becomes
> the EB30. Looking at the R wing at Benalla it didn't really fit the old
> root fairings on the EB29.
>
> Funny thing is some of the wooden gliders of the 30s, 40s and 50s had
> similar wing locations and mounting of the wings on a pylon integrated into
> the fuselage. Didn't have the fancy wing root design as they didn't have
> the CFD codes or computers then.
>
> Somewhere I have a paper on the Mu31 where they say they hope to get 6 to
> 10% drag reduction with the wing location. We should know soon as it won't
> be hard to find a good ASW27 and do comparison flights.
>
> Before anyone gets too excited this is all pure speculation on my part but
> if the comparison tests show they are getting what they wanted
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> At 12:43 PM 12/27/2017, you wrote:
>
> Content-Language: en-US
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>  boundary="_000_PS1PR04MB1004D9231BF7DE336AFA7
> 056A2070PS1PR04MB1004apcp_"
>
> Hearing that this will be the glider that combats the V3 & JS3; new wings
> for the very popular ASG29, the R is for Racing - perhaps a play on the
> intimidating EB29R?
>
>
>
>
>
> "ROCKS" ?
> Looks like Butch had a good time in the V2 aswell.
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> what does that mean??
>
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>
> *Borgelt Instruments* -
> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 *
> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
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> www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] For Sale - Excellent Club class glider - Pegase

[Peter Champness]

Thanks Greg.

Does it have a trailer?

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Greg Wilson  wrote:

> Reluctantly selling my Pegase 101A. An excellent club class performer.
> Some pilot unaffected by German glider myopia will get lot for their $$:
>
> http://www.sailplanes.co/sailplanes/single-seat-sailplanes/pegase-101a-
> unflapped-asw20_184
>
>
> Greg Wilson
> Mob 0400 438038
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Reminder: Mailing list relocation

[Peter Champness]

thanks

On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 8:21 PM Mark Newton  wrote:

> Reposting from last week:
>
> Some of you might recall that this list was moved from Internode to Base64
> some time ago.
>
> Well: It’s moving again.
>
> The software which has been running the group is called Mailman, and it’s
> showing its age. In particular, its ability to handle escalating volumes of
> spam is somewhat compromised. The mailboxes of Simon and I fill up with
> vast quantities of the stuff, and “backscatter attacks” cause Mailman to
> suspend your subscriptions, causing us to field queries about unexpected
> unsubscriptions.
>
> Simon and I had a quick chat about this last week, and decided to move it
> to a Google Group.
>
> The group is called aus-soaring (naturally). You should be able to
> subscribe to it by navigating to
> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/aus-soaring and using the drop-down
> menu button near the top right corner.
>
>
>
> Google Groups has far better spam protections, a good web interface, and
> you can still interact with it by email if you wish. Once you’re on board,
> you can email aus-soar...@googlegroups.com to make your voice heard.
>
> For privacy reasons, I’m not going to force-subscribe anyone to the new
> Group, you’ll need to do it yourself.
>
> We’re going to keep this list running on Base64’s mail server for another
> month or so, but will eventually abandon it. There’ll be some more
> reminders before that happens.
>
> Questions or comments? Fire away, happy to help.
>
> Regards,
>
>   - mark
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Re: [Aus-soaring] {Definitely Spam?} Re: Fwd: Reminder: Mailing list relocation

[Peter Champness]

I presume, since I got this message, that I am subscribed to the new web
site!

On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 7:09 PM Mal Bruce  wrote:

> A long time ago I set up Aus-Soaring Facebook version.
>
>  416 members currently, with various admins around the state, I must say
> it’s been trouble free as an admin.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 13 Sep 2018, at 9:50 am, Christopher McDonnell <
> wommamuku...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
> Have there been any posts on the old list recently? I have not seen any.
>
> *From:* Mark Newton
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 13, 2018 9:35 AM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* [Aus-soaring] Fwd: Reminder: Mailing list relocation
>
> Last reminder. We’ll shut down the old list next week.
>
>   - mark
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *Mark Newton 
> *Subject: **Re: [Aus-soaring] Reminder: Mailing list relocation*
> *Date: *6 September 2018 at 3:40:54 AM GMT+10
> *To: *"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
> *Reply-To: *"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <
> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
>
> Reposting again, and observing that the spam load has been particularly
> high for the last week for some reason. I think it’s the mailing list
> saying it’s had enough :)
>
> Let’s sunset this one: Middle of September makes it a month since i set up
> the new Google Group. That’s probably an adequate time to start turning
> this one off.
>
> I had one person who couldn’t find the new list on the link below, but
> could with this one:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/aus-soaring
> No idea why one worked and the other didn’t, but I’m including it here for
> completeness.
>
> Regards,
>
>   - mark
>
>
> On Aug 26, 2018, at 3:21 AM, Mark Newton  wrote:
>
> Reposting from last week:
>
> Some of you might recall that this list was moved from Internode to Base64
> some time ago.
>
> Well: It’s moving again.
>
> The software which has been running the group is called Mailman, and it’s
> showing its age. In particular, its ability to handle escalating volumes of
> spam is somewhat compromised. The mailboxes of Simon and I fill up with
> vast quantities of the stuff, and “backscatter attacks” cause Mailman to
> suspend your subscriptions, causing us to field queries about unexpected
> unsubscriptions.
>
> Simon and I had a quick chat about this last week, and decided to move it
> to a Google Group.
>
> The group is called aus-soaring (naturally). You should be able to
> subscribe to it by navigating to
> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/aus-soaring and using the drop-down
> menu button near the top right corner.
>
> 
>
> Google Groups has far better spam protections, a good web interface, and
> you can still interact with it by email if you wish. Once you’re on board,
> you can mailto:aus-soar...@googlegroups.com to make your voice heard.
>
> For privacy reasons, I’m not going to force-subscribe anyone to the new
> Group, you’ll need to do it yourself.
>
> We’re going to keep this list running on Base64’s mail server for another
> month or so, but will eventually abandon it. There’ll be some more
> reminders before that happens.
>
> Questions or comments? Fire away, happy to help.
>
> Regards,
>
>   - mark
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Nationals at NRM

[Peter Champness]

Maybe there are a lot of Ignorant  people here.

I leant something.

On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 10:54 PM Ross McLean  wrote:

> James
>
> I wonder if you have ever been to a National Gliding Championship?
>
>
>
> Because if you had you would of course know that prior to the start of the
> competition each and every competing glider is taken over the scales,
> (usually set up inside a hangar to get true weight), with full ballast,
> cockpit drinking water, parachute, oxygen and pilot. The actual measured
> weight is compared to the manufacturers published reference all up weight
> for that glider and the glider must be compliant before it is allowed to
> compete.  The glider is then weighed again with the wing and tail dolly
> fitted and the aircraft attached to the tow out vehicle.  This measured
> weight is then used during random weight checks throughout the comp.
>
>
>
> For you to suggest otherwise is quite simply an indication of your genuine
> ignorance of how things are done at Australian National Gliding Comps.
>
>
>
> Cheers, ROSS
>
>
> _
>
>  *Ross McLean*
>
>
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] *On
> Behalf Of *James McDowall
> *Sent:* Sunday, 2 December 2018 5:06 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Nationals at NRM
>
>
>
> I wonder if the Narromine Contest Director has checked that no aircraft
> are being flown by overweight pilots - eg 105kg pilot with 7kg parachute +
> food and water, in a glider with a maximum 105kg max pilot weight glider.
> Also has the aircraft been weighed since instruments, oxy or other
> additions made?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 3:17 PM Ron Sanders  wrote:
>
> Guys, are there any blogs facebooks going where one can vicariously
> participate??
>
>
>
> Ron
>
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