Re: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?

[John O'Neill]

Michael,
 
At SGGC we often tie a reef knot with the ends tied to keep things moving when we are busy.
The knots on our 10mm polyprop rope are usually good for about 20 or 30 launches compared to to 100plus splices.
We normally cut out the splices before the start of the next days operations.
 
John
 
---Original Message---
 

From: Michael Derry
Date: 03/09/06 18:42:10
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?
 
If
-it takes 30 seconds to tie a knot
-10 minutes to do a splice
-you need to carry a splicing tool
-you need someone who is trained and wants to do it
 
Why would you bother to splice...unless you used a winch and were
therefore forced to do it !
 
KISS
 
Keep It Simple Stupid !!!
 
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:38:44 +1300
"Brett Kettle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
> Why not splice it?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Michael
> Derry
> Sent: Friday, 10 March 2006 5:38 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: aus-soaring; Winchdesign Yahoogroups
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?
>
> To: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/
> cc others
> Neil
>
> I should have expanded a little more about knots.
>
> A FEATURE THAT OUR COUSINS USING WINCHES CANNOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF
>
> The knots which we used that worked were reef knots.
>
> If you look at a reef knot, the knot sticks out one side and the two
> lengths of rope line up under pressure. So when you watch a rope with a
> reef knot in it go around a pulley at speed and under load the line of
> the rope goes right against the pulley and the reef knot sticks out to
> the side.
>
> After watching knots go around pulleys many times under load I was
> amazed to see that the line of the rope always went against the pulley
> and the knot was on the opposite side.
>
> Reef knots slip easily so we tied a knot at the end of each peice of
> rope to stop it slipping. This worked a treat.
>
> A knot savy pilot saw a reef knot we had tied before a launch and
> replaced it with some other superior knot in terms of strength.
> Unfortunately when the knot went through the pulley it snapped. The
> reason it snapped was that the two lengths of rope did not line up when
> under pressure and the knot did not stick out to the side. The knot was
> on the inside of one of the pieces of rope and acted as a fulcrum
> placing much stress on the rope at the edge of the knot.
>
> Has anyone eany other thoughts about knots.it is a big subject ?
>
> Regards
>
> Michael Derry
>
> "Neil Wolthers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/
>
> > Is there any particular reason you guys are using knots in the rope?
> ___
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> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
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Re[2]: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?

[Michael Derry]

John and others  
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/

It is interesting to learn of your experience. I must say I am a little
suprised that your rope winch is designed to be able to handle knots.
My understanding was that the spreader  mechanism is normally vulnerable
to knots passing through it ? I have seen a video of the SGCC winch and
it is very impressive. Some of the features I liked about it included:
-used rope
-operated side on
- mobile if the vehicle is licenced

For smaller rope (ie 4 - 6 mm polyprop) towing hang gliders we used to
wrap black insulation tape around the reef knots. If more tape was
wrapped around each join every 3 or 4 days of flying then the knots
would outlast the rest of the rope. If no tape was used, a wear point on
each knot would quickly develop and the rope would soon break at the knot.

The secret to the tape was that it did not fit completely flush on the
knot and you would get a couple of mm wear protection when in fact your
tape was much much thinner than 1 mm.

I wonder if the tape concept would work with 8 or 10 mm rope getting
dragged at higher pressures and speeds ? Have you or anyone else tried
it?

Cheers

Michael

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 19:07:50 +1100 (AUS Eastern Daylight Time)
"John O'Neill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> Michael,
> 
> At SGGC we often tie a reef knot with the ends tied to keep things moving
> when we are busy.
> The knots on our 10mm polyprop rope are usually good for about 20 or 30
> launches compared to to 100plus splices.
> We normally cut out the splices before the start of the next days operations
> 
> 
> John
>  
> ---Original Message---
>  
> From: Michael Derry
> Date: 03/09/06 18:42:10
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?
>  
> If
> -it takes 30 seconds to tie a knot
> -10 minutes to do a splice
> -you need to carry a splicing tool
> -you need someone who is trained and wants to do it
>  
> Why would you bother to splice...unless you used a winch and were
> therefore forced to do it !
>  
> KISS
>  
> Keep It Simple Stupid !!!
>  
> On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:38:44 +1300
> "Brett Kettle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
> > Why not splice it?
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
> > Derry
> > Sent: Friday, 10 March 2006 5:38 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Cc: aus-soaring; Winchdesign Yahoogroups
> > Subject: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?
> >
> > To: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/
> > cc others
> > Neil
> >
> > I should have expanded a little more about knots.
> >
> > A FEATURE THAT OUR COUSINS USING WINCHES CANNOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF
> >
> > The knots which we used that worked were reef knots.
> >
> > If you look at a reef knot, the knot sticks out one side and the two
> > lengths of rope line up under pressure. So when you watch a rope with a
> > reef knot in it go around a pulley at speed and under load the line of
> > the rope goes right against the pulley and the reef knot sticks out to
> > the side.
> >
> > After watching knots go around pulleys many times under load I was
> > amazed to see that the line of the rope always went against the pulley
> > and the knot was on the opposite side.
> >
> > Reef knots slip easily so we tied a knot at the end of each peice of
> > rope to stop it slipping. This worked a treat.
> >
> > A knot savy pilot saw a reef knot we had tied before a launch and
> > replaced it with some other superior knot in terms of strength.
> > Unfortunately when the knot went through the pulley it snapped. The
> > reason it snapped was that the two lengths of rope did not line up when
> > under pressure and the knot did not stick out to the side. The knot was
> > on the inside of one of the pieces of rope and acted as a fulcrum
> > placing much stress on the rope at the edge of the knot.
> >
> > Has anyone eany other thoughts about knots.it is a big subject ?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Michael Derry
> >
> > "Neil Wolthers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/
> >
> > > Is there any particular reason you guys are using knots in the rope?
> > ___


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Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA puts up a page to track ASIC applications

[Peter Stephenson]

http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/licence/status.htm
- Original Message - 
From: "Penedo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Australia Soaring" 
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 12:05 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] CASA puts up a page to track ASIC applications


> Hi,
> 
> In context of the recent discussion about ASIC, here is something I found
> today:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/obqml
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> --P
> 
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> 
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RE: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?

[Brett Kettle]

Anyone who can tie a shoelace in 15 seconds can do a splice in a minute,
with just a little practice, no splicing tool needed.

...and a sextant is a great way to estimate altitude of a glider from the
ground; pilots who don't know the difference between a map and a chart
should be keel-hauled; and a cat-o-nine tails keeps the winch retrieve
driver on the ball. But plumb bobs are useless when it comes to working out
your angle of bank.

[working hard on becoming a cantankerous old fart]

 
Cheers
Brett Kettle 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
Derry
Sent: Friday, 10 March 2006 1:22 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?

If
-it takes 30 seconds to tie a knot
-10 minutes to do a splice
-you need to carry a splicing tool
-you need someone who is trained and wants to do it

Why would you bother to splice...unless you used a winch and were
therefore forced to do it !

KISS

Keep It Simple Stupid !!!

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:38:44 +1300
"Brett Kettle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Why not splice it?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
> Derry
> Sent: Friday, 10 March 2006 5:38 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: aus-soaring; Winchdesign Yahoogroups
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?
> 
> To: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/
> cc others
> Neil  
> 
> I should have expanded a little more about knots.
> 
> A FEATURE THAT OUR COUSINS USING WINCHES CANNOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF
> 
> The knots which we used that worked were reef knots.
> 
> If you look at a reef knot, the knot sticks out one side and the two
> lengths of rope line up under pressure. So when you watch a rope with a
> reef knot in it go around a pulley at speed and under load the line of
> the rope goes right against the pulley and the reef knot sticks out to
> the side.
> 
> After watching knots go around pulleys many times under load I was
> amazed to see that the line of the rope always went against the pulley
> and the knot was on the opposite side.
> 
> Reef knots slip easily so we tied a knot at the end of each peice of
> rope to stop it slipping. This worked a treat.
> 
> A knot savy pilot saw a reef knot we had tied before a launch and
> replaced it with some other superior knot in terms of strength.
> Unfortunately when the knot went through the pulley it snapped. The
> reason it snapped was that the two lengths of rope did not line up when
> under pressure and the knot did not stick out to the side. The knot was
> on the inside of one of the pieces of rope and acted as a fulcrum
> placing much stress on the rope at the edge of the knot.
> 
> Has anyone eany other thoughts about knots.it is a big subject ?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Michael Derry
> 
> "Neil Wolthers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/
> 
> > Is there any particular reason you guys are using knots in the rope?
> ___
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> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> 
> ___
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> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring

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Re: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?

[Peter Stephenson]

KIPP. (Keep it polite please)  PeterS
- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Derry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 10:21 AM
Subject: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?


> If
> -it takes 30 seconds to tie a knot
> -10 minutes to do a splice
> -you need to carry a splicing tool
> -you need someone who is trained and wants to do it
>
> Why would you bother to splice...unless you used a winch and were
> therefore forced to do it !
>
> KISS
>
> Keep It Simple Stupid !!!
>
> On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:38:44 +1300
> "Brett Kettle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Why not splice it?
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
> > Derry
> > Sent: Friday, 10 March 2006 5:38 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Cc: aus-soaring; Winchdesign Yahoogroups
> > Subject: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?
> >
> > To: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/
> > cc others
> > Neil
> >
> > I should have expanded a little more about knots.
> >
> > A FEATURE THAT OUR COUSINS USING WINCHES CANNOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF
> >
> > The knots which we used that worked were reef knots.
> >
> > If you look at a reef knot, the knot sticks out one side and the two
> > lengths of rope line up under pressure. So when you watch a rope with a
> > reef knot in it go around a pulley at speed and under load the line of
> > the rope goes right against the pulley and the reef knot sticks out to
> >

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RE: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?

[Ron Sanders]

I've been a pilot for 38 years and 23,500 hours later I WOULD like to know
the difference between a map and a chart???  So what is it please?
Ron S 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brett
Kettle
Sent: Thursday, 9 March 2006 8:54 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?

Anyone who can tie a shoelace in 15 seconds can do a splice in a minute,
with just a little practice, no splicing tool needed.

...and a sextant is a great way to estimate altitude of a glider from the
ground; pilots who don't know the difference between a map and a chart
should be keel-hauled; and a cat-o-nine tails keeps the winch retrieve
driver on the ball. But plumb bobs are useless when it comes to working out
your angle of bank.

[working hard on becoming a cantankerous old fart]

 
Cheers
Brett Kettle 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
Derry
Sent: Friday, 10 March 2006 1:22 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?

If
-it takes 30 seconds to tie a knot
-10 minutes to do a splice
-you need to carry a splicing tool
-you need someone who is trained and wants to do it

Why would you bother to splice...unless you used a winch and were
therefore forced to do it !

KISS

Keep It Simple Stupid !!!

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:38:44 +1300
"Brett Kettle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Why not splice it?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
> Derry
> Sent: Friday, 10 March 2006 5:38 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: aus-soaring; Winchdesign Yahoogroups
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?
> 
> To: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/
> cc others
> Neil  
> 
> I should have expanded a little more about knots.
> 
> A FEATURE THAT OUR COUSINS USING WINCHES CANNOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF
> 
> The knots which we used that worked were reef knots.
> 
> If you look at a reef knot, the knot sticks out one side and the two
> lengths of rope line up under pressure. So when you watch a rope with a
> reef knot in it go around a pulley at speed and under load the line of
> the rope goes right against the pulley and the reef knot sticks out to
> the side.
> 
> After watching knots go around pulleys many times under load I was
> amazed to see that the line of the rope always went against the pulley
> and the knot was on the opposite side.
> 
> Reef knots slip easily so we tied a knot at the end of each peice of
> rope to stop it slipping. This worked a treat.
> 
> A knot savy pilot saw a reef knot we had tied before a launch and
> replaced it with some other superior knot in terms of strength.
> Unfortunately when the knot went through the pulley it snapped. The
> reason it snapped was that the two lengths of rope did not line up when
> under pressure and the knot did not stick out to the side. The knot was
> on the inside of one of the pieces of rope and acted as a fulcrum
> placing much stress on the rope at the edge of the knot.
> 
> Has anyone eany other thoughts about knots.it is a big subject ?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Michael Derry
> 
> "Neil Wolthers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/
> 
> > Is there any particular reason you guys are using knots in the rope?
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> 
> ___
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RE: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?

[Brett Kettle]

In at the deep end then... the crusty old mariner that taught me coastal
navigation made it pretty clear.  If its got a fixed scale and a fixed north
it's a map and its got no place in 'real' navigation (because you can never
be sure you know how to relate a compass to it nor how to measure distance).
But if it shows magnetic variation and has lats & longs so you can calculate
proper distances anywhere on it, it's a map.

Plenty of other opinions, but this explanation would have kept my donkey
from being keel-hauled.

 
Cheers
Brett Kettle 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders
Sent: Thursday, 9 March 2006 11:42 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?

I've been a pilot for 38 years and 23,500 hours later I WOULD like to know
the difference between a map and a chart???  So what is it please?
Ron S 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brett
Kettle
Sent: Thursday, 9 March 2006 8:54 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?

Anyone who can tie a shoelace in 15 seconds can do a splice in a minute,
with just a little practice, no splicing tool needed.

...and a sextant is a great way to estimate altitude of a glider from the
ground; pilots who don't know the difference between a map and a chart
should be keel-hauled; and a cat-o-nine tails keeps the winch retrieve
driver on the ball. But plumb bobs are useless when it comes to working out
your angle of bank.

[working hard on becoming a cantankerous old fart]

 
Cheers
Brett Kettle 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
Derry
Sent: Friday, 10 March 2006 1:22 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?

If
-it takes 30 seconds to tie a knot
-10 minutes to do a splice
-you need to carry a splicing tool
-you need someone who is trained and wants to do it

Why would you bother to splice...unless you used a winch and were
therefore forced to do it !

KISS

Keep It Simple Stupid !!!

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:38:44 +1300
"Brett Kettle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Why not splice it?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
> Derry
> Sent: Friday, 10 March 2006 5:38 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: aus-soaring; Winchdesign Yahoogroups
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?
> 
> To: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/
> cc others
> Neil  
> 
> I should have expanded a little more about knots.
> 
> A FEATURE THAT OUR COUSINS USING WINCHES CANNOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF
> 
> The knots which we used that worked were reef knots.
> 
> If you look at a reef knot, the knot sticks out one side and the two
> lengths of rope line up under pressure. So when you watch a rope with a
> reef knot in it go around a pulley at speed and under load the line of
> the rope goes right against the pulley and the reef knot sticks out to
> the side.
> 
> After watching knots go around pulleys many times under load I was
> amazed to see that the line of the rope always went against the pulley
> and the knot was on the opposite side.
> 
> Reef knots slip easily so we tied a knot at the end of each peice of
> rope to stop it slipping. This worked a treat.
> 
> A knot savy pilot saw a reef knot we had tied before a launch and
> replaced it with some other superior knot in terms of strength.
> Unfortunately when the knot went through the pulley it snapped. The
> reason it snapped was that the two lengths of rope did not line up when
> under pressure and the knot did not stick out to the side. The knot was
> on the inside of one of the pieces of rope and acted as a fulcrum
> placing much stress on the rope at the edge of the knot.
> 
> Has anyone eany other thoughts about knots.it is a big subject ?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Michael Derry
> 
> "Neil Wolthers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/
> 
> > Is there any particular reason you guys are using knots in the rope?
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> 
> ___
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> To check or change subscription details, visit:
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RE: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?

[Alan Wilson]

Capt Cook used a Sextant but he only knew latitude and hoped to hit
Tahiti.  We now have GPS and know within nanoseconds and metres. But
more important, where the nearest landing site is, and within glide
range.

I was once a winch driver, but there were no gash launches from that end
of the field.

I was once an OIC of a service gliding club, but it took months to get
money from 'Welfare'.

I was once a treasurer of Canberra GC, where the banker said, 'gliding
has stopped!!!'   We will have $x,xxx by Friday.

Gliding needs management and money, so why nickel and dime over who is
splicing on a winch.  The engine on a motor gilder costs perhaps $80k
plus maintenance, and that is a lot of tows..  So get an aero tow,
check the rope. and get to where the life/lift is.  

The GPS has new batteries, and I forgot my maps and charts, indeed my
watch and compass  Plenty of paddocks ahead

SMFSLT

Alan

Confused, then get the charts out of the bag.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron
Sanders
Sent: Thursday, 9 March 2006 9:42 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?


I've been a pilot for 38 years and 23,500 hours later I WOULD like to
know the difference between a map and a chart???  So what is it please?
Ron S 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brett
Kettle
Sent: Thursday, 9 March 2006 8:54 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: RE: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?

Anyone who can tie a shoelace in 15 seconds can do a splice in a minute,
with just a little practice, no splicing tool needed.

...and a sextant is a great way to estimate altitude of a glider from
the ground; pilots who don't know the difference between a map and a
chart should be keel-hauled; and a cat-o-nine tails keeps the winch
retrieve driver on the ball. But plumb bobs are useless when it comes to
working out your angle of bank.

[working hard on becoming a cantankerous old fart]

 
Cheers
Brett Kettle 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
Derry
Sent: Friday, 10 March 2006 1:22 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re[2]: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?

If
-it takes 30 seconds to tie a knot
-10 minutes to do a splice
-you need to carry a splicing tool
-you need someone who is trained and wants to do it

Why would you bother to splice...unless you used a winch and were
therefore forced to do it !

KISS

Keep It Simple Stupid !!!

On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:38:44 +1300
"Brett Kettle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Why not splice it?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Michael Derry
> Sent: Friday, 10 March 2006 5:38 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: aus-soaring; Winchdesign Yahoogroups
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?
> 
> To: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/
> cc others
> Neil  
> 
> I should have expanded a little more about knots.
> 
> A FEATURE THAT OUR COUSINS USING WINCHES CANNOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF
> 
> The knots which we used that worked were reef knots.
> 
> If you look at a reef knot, the knot sticks out one side and the two 
> lengths of rope line up under pressure. So when you watch a rope with 
> a reef knot in it go around a pulley at speed and under load the line 
> of the rope goes right against the pulley and the reef knot sticks out

> to the side.
> 
> After watching knots go around pulleys many times under load I was 
> amazed to see that the line of the rope always went against the pulley

> and the knot was on the opposite side.
> 
> Reef knots slip easily so we tied a knot at the end of each peice of 
> rope to stop it slipping. This worked a treat.
> 
> A knot savy pilot saw a reef knot we had tied before a launch and 
> replaced it with some other superior knot in terms of strength. 
> Unfortunately when the knot went through the pulley it snapped. The 
> reason it snapped was that the two lengths of rope did not line up 
> when under pressure and the knot did not stick out to the side. The 
> knot was on the inside of one of the pieces of rope and acted as a 
> fulcrum placing much stress on the rope at the edge of the knot.
> 
> Has anyone eany other thoughts about knots.it is a big subject ?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Michael Derry
> 
> "Neil Wolthers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/
> 
> > Is there any particular reason you guys are using knots in the rope?
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Re: Issue with attachments

[Patching]

They are. the rest is gone.
Keep the faith.
Ian P.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  John O'Neill 
  
  To: Discussion of issues relating 
  to Soaring in Australia. 
  Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:59 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Re: Issue with 
  attachments
  
  

  
Ian,
 
Your addresses must still be there as this email has come through 
as a group.
 
John 
 
---Original 
Message---
 

From: Patching
Date: 03/09/06 
18:04:48
To: Discussion of issues 
relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: 
[Aus-soaring] Re: Issue with attachments
 
Scott,
It looks like you maybe someone who understands a bit about 
computors. My
knowledge is getting better but having to keep up with all sorts of 
new
technology ruffles my wooden brain sometimes.
I have a huge computer problem and maybe you OR someone else on the 
list
might be able to assist. About 2 days ago I lost all of my e-mail 
and I cant
find it anybloodywhere. Help! The address book is still there but 
everything
else has gone.
I'm not too concerned about the work items but to lose all of the 
wit and
comraderie of Aus Soaring has really caused me some worry.
Can anyone help???
Thanks
Ian P.
Kookaburra Precision Soaring Team
- Original Message -
From: "Scott Penrose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
"Glenn McLean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."

Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Re: Issue with attachments
 
 
> Hey Guys,
>
> Thanks for the info but it is a known bug in the email list 
software  when
> email is included with attachments, if I send you mail 
directly  it is not
> a problem, only when it goes via a list - or in 
particular  the list
> software used here. It is actually a combination of my 
mail  program ->
> list -> Outlook/Exchange - if you use another mail 
client  it isn't a
> problem, if you use another list management system it 
is  not a problem -
> just one of those things I guess :-)
>
> As for people deleting or whatever, that is fine, each to 
their  own :-) I
> will try and remember to disable PGP when sending to 
the  list, but it is
> all automatic so I may forget.
>
> Scooter
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
 
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--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/277 - Release Date: 
3/8/2006
 

  

  
  



  
  

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Re: Issue with attachments

[Roger Browne]

Ian,

I have most of the Aus-Soaring mail messages stored on my computer, 
Atleast those that have come in since I joined the list, back to 16 Aug 03.


If you like, I could copy them to a disk and send it to you. Proably too 
big for email.


Roger Browne


- Original Message - 
From: "Patching" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Re: Issue with attachments



Scott,
It looks like you maybe someone who understands a bit about computors. My 
knowledge is getting better but having to keep up with all sorts of new 
technology ruffles my wooden brain sometimes.
I have a huge computer problem and maybe you OR someone else on the list 
might be able to assist. About 2 days ago I lost all of my e-mail and I 
cant find it anybloodywhere. Help! The address book is still there but 
everything else has gone.
I'm not too concerned about the work items but to lose all of the wit and 
comraderie of Aus Soaring has really caused me some worry.

Can anyone help???
Thanks
Ian P.
Kookaburra Precision Soaring Team
- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Penrose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Glenn McLean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Re: Issue with attachments



Hey Guys,

Thanks for the info but it is a known bug in the email list software 
when email is included with attachments, if I send you mail directly  it 
is not a problem, only when it goes via a list - or in particular  the 
list software used here. It is actually a combination of my mail 
 program -> list -> Outlook/Exchange - if you use another mail client  it 
isn't a problem, if you use another list management system it is  not a 
problem - just one of those things I guess :-)


As for people deleting or whatever, that is fine, each to their  own :-) 
I will try and remember to disable PGP when sending to the  list, but it 
is all automatic so I may forget.


Scooter


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[Aus-soaring] Kingfisher ES-57 VH-GLD

[Christopher Mc Donnell]

Would anybody happen to know the whereabouts of the 
above homebuilt Kingfisher?
Last registration was in the name of Anthony 
O'Donoghue of Booval which I believe is a part of Ipswich.
 
Thanks if you can help.
 
Chris McDonnell
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Knots?

[Robert Hart]

Alan Wilson wrote:

Capt Cook used a Sextant but he only knew latitude and hoped to hit
Tahiti.
  

I'm not sure that this is correct.

I thought that the major distinguishing feature of Cook's exploration 
was that he had accurate clocks, for the first time on a major voyage, 
and was thus able to work out both lat and long. This, in part, was the 
reason for the truly excellent charts he created on his Pacific voyages 
that were used by the RN for many, many years.


Accurate clocks were also a pre-requisite for the measurement of the 
transit of Venus - the primary reason Cook was at Tahiti in the first place.


--
Robert Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+61 (0)438 385 533http://www.hart.wattle.id.au

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Re: Issue with attachments

[Patching]

What do you think I am Roger, Some sort of masochist or something!!!
Thanks anyway for the offer.
Cheers
Ian P.
- Original Message - 
From: "Roger Browne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Re: Issue with attachments



Ian,

I have most of the Aus-Soaring mail messages stored on my computer, 
Atleast those that have come in since I joined the list, back to 16 Aug 
03.


If you like, I could copy them to a disk and send it to you. Proably 
too big for email.


Roger Browne


- Original Message - 
From: "Patching" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Re: Issue with attachments



Scott,
It looks like you maybe someone who understands a bit about computors. My 
knowledge is getting better but having to keep up with all sorts of new 
technology ruffles my wooden brain sometimes.
I have a huge computer problem and maybe you OR someone else on the list 
might be able to assist. About 2 days ago I lost all of my e-mail and I 
cant find it anybloodywhere. Help! The address book is still there but 
everything else has gone.
I'm not too concerned about the work items but to lose all of the wit and 
comraderie of Aus Soaring has really caused me some worry.

Can anyone help???
Thanks
Ian P.
Kookaburra Precision Soaring Team
- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Penrose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Glenn McLean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 


Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Re: Issue with attachments



Hey Guys,

Thanks for the info but it is a known bug in the email list software 
when email is included with attachments, if I send you mail directly  it 
is not a problem, only when it goes via a list - or in particular  the 
list software used here. It is actually a combination of my mail 
program -> list -> Outlook/Exchange - if you use another mail client  it 
isn't a problem, if you use another list management system it is  not a 
problem - just one of those things I guess :-)


As for people deleting or whatever, that is fine, each to their  own :-) 
I will try and remember to disable PGP when sending to the  list, but it 
is all automatic so I may forget.


Scooter


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RE: [Aus-soaring] Re: Issue with attachments

[David Lawley]

Hi Ian, could you tell me which email program you use?
Have you logged on as a diffent user?


David Lawley
Computer Manager
Elizabeth Park Primary School 
Elizabeth East Primary School
 
 
 
 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> Of Patching
> Sent: Friday, 10 March 2006 8:18 AM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Re: Issue with attachments
> 
> What do you think I am Roger, Some sort of masochist or 
> something!!!
> Thanks anyway for the offer.
> Cheers
> Ian P.
> - Original Message -
> From: "Roger Browne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 
> 
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 11:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Re: Issue with attachments
> 
> 
> > Ian,
> >
> > I have most of the Aus-Soaring mail messages stored on my computer, 
> > Atleast those that have come in since I joined the list, 
> back to 16 Aug 
> > 03.
> >
> > If you like, I could copy them to a disk and send it to 
> you. Proably 
> > too big for email.
> >
> > Roger Browne
> >
> >
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "Patching" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 
> > 
> > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Re: Issue with attachments
> >
> >
> >> Scott,
> >> It looks like you maybe someone who understands a bit 
> about computors. My 
> >> knowledge is getting better but having to keep up with all 
> sorts of new 
> >> technology ruffles my wooden brain sometimes.
> >> I have a huge computer problem and maybe you OR someone 
> else on the list 
> >> might be able to assist. About 2 days ago I lost all of my 
> e-mail and I 
> >> cant find it anybloodywhere. Help! The address book is 
> still there but 
> >> everything else has gone.
> >> I'm not too concerned about the work items but to lose all 
> of the wit and 
> >> comraderie of Aus Soaring has really caused me some worry.
> >> Can anyone help???
> >> Thanks
> >> Ian P.
> >> Kookaburra Precision Soaring Team
> >> - Original Message - 
> >> From: "Scott Penrose" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Glenn McLean" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
> >> "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 
> >> 
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:25 PM
> >> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Re: Issue with attachments
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hey Guys,
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the info but it is a known bug in the email 
> list software 
> >>> when email is included with attachments, if I send you 
> mail directly  it 
> >>> is not a problem, only when it goes via a list - or in 
> particular  the 
> >>> list software used here. It is actually a combination of my mail 
> >>> program -> list -> Outlook/Exchange - if you use another 
> mail client  it 
> >>> isn't a problem, if you use another list management 
> system it is  not a 
> >>> problem - just one of those things I guess :-)
> >>>
> >>> As for people deleting or whatever, that is fine, each to 
> their  own :-) 
> >>> I will try and remember to disable PGP when sending to 
> the  list, but it 
> >>> is all automatic so I may forget.
> >>>
> >>> Scooter
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Aus-soaring mailing list
> >>> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> >>> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Aus-soaring mailing list
> >> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> >> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > To check or change subscription details, visit:
> > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring 
> 
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[Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Fw: Re: PULLEY LAUNCH

[Michael Derry]

Hi Haim 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/

If you have a big open runway 2 km long in every direction then autotow
without a pulley is probably the way to go. Very few clubs around the
world have this.

Extra height out of the same length is the main reason to use a winch or
pulley system. You should get another 500 feet out of a 2 km strip using
a pulley as opposed to a auto tow without a pulley. To do this however
you need to use rope/cable/or whatever 2 km long.

There are some other benefits of using a pulley system over a non pulley
autotow system:

TRACTION
The pull is always longways and not upwards so you can use a much
lighter car and there is no need to ballast it.

TENSION CONTROL
3:1 gives perfect tension control. To speed up just put your foot down
and acceleration is 3 times as fast. You do not have to use lots of
energy and wait to get that big heavy vehicle to speed up like with
conventional autotowing.

If the glider hits a thermal the force against the car is very strong
and it slows it down.

Using so much extra rope means the system has lots of give in it.

DEDICATED VEHICLE IS NOT NEEDED
Any modern 6 cylinder car that arrives at the airfield is ideal for the
job. No need to buy and maintain a dedicated tow vehicle. No need to
have some unfortunate soul with his head under the bonnet every other
weekend keeping the tow vehicle fixed up.

The modern cars that arrive on site are:
-incredibly reliable compared to the old bangers
-have fuel in them
-have working airconditioners
-a driver that easily has the skill to do the job

VISION
The driver is looking straight ahead and can see the glider for nearly
all the tow (in the case of 3:1).

I hope this answers your questions.

Michael


> Forwarded by Michael Derry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  From: Haim
>  Subject: Re: PULLEY LAUNCH
> --
> 
> Hello Michael
> I did.
> 
> We are in Israel.
> Our gliding club consists of some 85 members, 11 club gliders, Pawnee PA-25, 
> PA-18, 5 privet gliders, 3 privet motorglides. Tow truck is used for gliding 
> instructions. We are using a coated Vectran cable and we developed on-board 
> cable retracting system with a parachute.
> 
> Here is the way I interpretation the operation of the pulley launch:
> The only advantage I can see with a pulley system is shorter runway
> requirements. In Megido, 500 meter cable takes us to about 1500ft and we 
> need
> about 2 km and a tow truck that can deliver the torque and speed
> requirements. In a 1:2 pulley system with 500 meter working (lifting) cable
> (that gets you to the same altitude of 1500ft)  a 2:1 pulley system needs 
> 1500 meter cable
> and 1500 meter runway (running the truck in the opposit direction present a 
> safety problem). The operation requires a higher torque but lower speed 
> truck operation. I suppose that such operation with a long line on the 
> ground is associated with messy tangling. I expect that ties required after 
> a break in the line present some difficulties. Do you find such tow system 
> attractive over a direct car tow?
> 
> I send this msg to the group.
> 
> Soft landings
> 
> Haim
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/
> 
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Fw: Re: PULLEY LAUNCH

[Ian McPhee]

Autotow discussion reminds me of the good old days at Bacchus.  One of the 
Igguldens once told me when the winch would fail they would go to Avis at 
Essendon Airport and get the biggest tank model ford V8 they could rent then 
go to hardware store and get 3 bags of cement and then off to the gliding 
field and "belt the shit" out of the Avis car doing autotows over the 
weekendIan M



- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Derry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "aus-soaring" 
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 2:48 AM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Re: [pulleylaunch] Fw: Re: PULLEY LAUNCH


Hi Haim 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pulleylaunch/

If you have a big open runway 2 km long in every direction then autotow
without a pulley is probably the way to go. Very few clubs around the
world have this.

Extra height out of the same length is the main reason to use a winch or
pulley system. You should get another 500 feet out of a 2 km strip using
a pulley as opposed to a auto tow without a pulley. To do this however
you need to use rope/cable/or whatever 2 km long.

There are some other benefits of using a pulley system over a non pulley
autotow system:

TRACTION
The pull is always longways and not upwards so you can use a much
lighter car and there is no need to ballast it.

TENSION CONTROL
3:1 gives perfect tension control. To speed up just put your foot down
and acceleration is 3 times as fast. You do not have to use lots of
energy and wait to get that big heavy vehicle to speed up like with
conventional autotowing.

If the glider hits a thermal the force against the car is very strong
and it slows it down.

Using so much extra rope means the system has lots of give in it.

DEDICATED VEHICLE IS NOT NEEDED
Any modern 6 cylinder car that arrives at the airfield is ideal for the
job. No need to buy and maintain a dedicated tow vehicle. No need to
have some unfortunate soul with his head under the bonnet every other
weekend keeping the tow vehicle fixed up.

The modern cars that arrive on site are:
-incredibly reliable compared to the old bangers
-have fuel in them
-have working airconditioners
-a driver that easily has the skill to do the job

VISION
The driver is looking straight ahead and can see the glider for nearly
all the tow (in the case of 3:1).

I hope this answers your questions.

Michael



Forwarded by Michael Derry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 From: Haim
 Subject: Re: PULLEY LAUNCH
--

Hello Michael
I did.

We are in Israel.
Our gliding club consists of some 85 members, 11 club gliders, Pawnee 
PA-25,
PA-18, 5 privet gliders, 3 privet motorglides. Tow truck is used for 
gliding
instructions. We are using a coated Vectran cable and we developed 
on-board

cable retracting system with a parachute.

Here is the way I interpretation the operation of the pulley launch:
The only advantage I can see with a pulley system is shorter runway
requirements. In Megido, 500 meter cable takes us to about 1500ft and we
need
about 2 km and a tow truck that can deliver the torque and speed
requirements. In a 1:2 pulley system with 500 meter working (lifting) 
cable

(that gets you to the same altitude of 1500ft)  a 2:1 pulley system needs
1500 meter cable
and 1500 meter runway (running the truck in the opposit direction present 
a

safety problem). The operation requires a higher torque but lower speed
truck operation. I suppose that such operation with a long line on the
ground is associated with messy tangling. I expect that ties required 
after
a break in the line present some difficulties. Do you find such tow 
system

attractive over a direct car tow?

I send this msg to the group.

Soft landings

Haim



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Re: [Aus-soaring] Re: improving the site

[Penedo]

David Conway wrote:
> >  Hi Folks
> >
> >  Just looking for any ideas and suggestions for how we can improve the 
> > functionality of the GFA website.
> >
> >  For example, on-line membership renewal and payment by credit card.
> >
> >  We would need to identify that we are providing an improved service to 
> > members which they would be prepared to pay for if there is a cost 
> > involved, or demonstrate that some savings can be made to also benefit 
> > members.

As for the video clips idea mentioned somewere - google video now allows you to
embed video hosted on google (with their portable Flash-based player)
directly in
your own web site, so maybe a lookup of "gliders" or other keywords will turn up
with worthy video to embed, or maybe it's possible to upload material there and
point to it from the GFA web site without loading it too much. (ref:
video.google.com)

I startted to execute an idea to embed a Google map with club database
data on it
but need access to the database in order to continue work on it (to be
clear - I'm talking
about the club details like name, lat/long, glider types etc, NOT the members
database).

As a relative newcomer to Australia it was relativelly complex for me
to figure out
from the club names and addresses about how close are they to my home and
I think that such a map will make it easier for "outsiders" to find
relevant clubs.
It might also be combined with atmospheric data and Australia roads and place
names, or a database of turn points.

I tried to contact webmaster.at.gfa.org.au for the last two-three weeks with no
response (even to a message kindly forwarded by the secretary of GFA).

(I prefer to not post a link on a list with a public archive since it
is currently hosted
on my home machine, if you want to see a sample then please send me a private
e-mail).

> >
> >  Thinking caps on!
> >
> >  cheers
> >
> >  David Conway

Cheers,

--P
--
"I was being prosecuted for my beliefs I believed people wouldn't
notice I'd sold them camels with plaster teeth until I was well out of
town."  - Terry Pratchett, "Pyramids"

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[Aus-soaring] Re:Sportavia

[Mike Borgelt]

I see in the aviation section of "The Australian" this morning that 
management rights up to freehold for Sportavia is up for sale.


Mike
Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
fax   Int'l + 61 746 358796
cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
  Int'l + 61 429 355784
email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
website: www.borgeltinstruments.com

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[Aus-soaring] Anybody got a glider trailer to sell?

[Dave Boulter -Internode Acct]

Hi,
 
SCGC is looking to replace one of it's trailers. 
Anybody got a trailer for sale?
 
/daveb
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[Aus-soaring] Anyone know Rob Marriott?

[Anthony Smith]

Hi all

Anyone in touch with Rob Marriott of Melbourne?  Last seen departing
Adelaide with the bits of Bocian 1e KYW?

Anthony

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